December 3, 2020 • 33 mins
The Godmother of Modern Corsetry, Autumn Adamme, shares her thoughts on uncommon beauty, radical inclusion, and living outrageously. Learn more about her perspective as we discuss:
- the transformative power of a corset
- outrageous costume balls
- feminist thoughts on embracing corsetry
- Autumn's dream to transform lives all over the world
Guest Biography
Autumn became known as the Godmother of Modern Corsetry after launching Dark Garden in 1989, reviving corsets for a modern body and audience. Growing up on the Renaissance Fair circuit, Autumn made her first corset at 12. Shortly after reaching the age of majority, she turnednthe carfting of custom corsets and ensembles into a groundbreaking business which established many of the techniques and standards observed by corsetmakers across the world today. Her devotion to supporting uncommon beauty through the practice of radical inclusiveness has brought her both job satisfaction and a dedicated international following who appreciate the welcome that she and her team offer to everyone who visits either of her two boutiques.
Connect with Autumn:
- www.darkgarden.com
- Dark Garden Instagram & Dark Garden New Orleans Instagram
- Autumn's Personal Instagram
- Dark Garden Patreon
Episode References
- Book Mentioned: Corsets & Crinoline
We also recommend...
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Lady Grey is an award-winning international entertainer and educator. She has been at the helm of numerous performing arts organizations and has performed everywhere from Broadway to the Sydney Olympics. She currently serves as Artistic Director of Lady Grey's Lovelies and continues to work as a mentor and empowerment coach.
Connect with Lady Grey
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Autumn (00:00):
I was getting this message from all media that my
feminine curves were bad. And Irebelled against that.
Lady Grey (00:15):
Hello, you lovely humans. Welcome to the live
outrageously with Lady graypodcast. I'm your hostess lady
gray. And I have had the greathonor to interview a number of
super inspiring world changersabout how they live
outrageously. So we're going toshare about how they push
(00:36):
boundaries. They fight forchange, and how they seriously
shake up the status quo. I couldnot be more excited to introduce
you to my very first guest.
Autumn Adom, she became known asthe godmother of modern corsetry
after launching dark garden inthe late 80s, reviving corsets
for a modern body and a modernaudience. her devotion to
(00:59):
supporting uncommon beautythrough the practice of radical
inclusion has brought her bothjob satisfaction and a dedicated
international following, whoappreciate the welcome that she
and her team offered everyonewho visits either of her two
boutiques. Welcome, welcome.
(01:20):
Welcome, autumn. It is so greatto have you on the show.
Autumn (01:24):
Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here with you.
Lady Grey (01:27):
It is a huge honor to have you here and to get to
dialogue with you about youroutrageous life.
And for those of you that don'tknow, Autumn and I know each
other, we've worked togetherbefore on some fantastic
projects. So this will be areally fun dialogue, because
we're also friends and we have alot of things in common. And
hopefully we can dig into thosethings and give you a little bit
(01:50):
of a peek into autumns everydaylife. So let's start with a
little background about you andyour corsetry so people can get
to know you better. youcurrently have two shops, is
that correct? That is correct.
Can you tell us a little bitabout those,
Autumn (02:05):
I can tell you about my two shops, I began dark garden
in 1989 out of my garage, andthat grew very gradually into a
sewing business. And that thengrew into being a corset
company. And then that grew intomy having what we call the
(02:26):
flagship store in Hayes Valleyin San Francisco. And there we
also do our production. And thena year and a half ago, I opened
a second location, just aboutique in New Orleans.
Lady Grey (02:42):
So how in the world did you get trained? Are you
self taught? Have you hadmentors that you've had or
people you've apprenticed
Autumn (02:52):
for the most part? Yeah, for the most part, I'm self
taught. And when I started thebusiness, I was fascinated by
courses coming from a historicalstandpoint, I studied costume
history, I worked as a secondhand to an historical costumer,
and she made courses so Ilearned a little bit from her I
(03:13):
learned a little bit from otherhistorical costumers that I
knew. And then I started reallyhoning in on corsetry
specifically, and learned asmuch as I could from existing
historical garments. And there'sa book called corsets and
(03:35):
crinolines at the time, it wasbasically the only book that had
anything, any information aboutcorsetry. And I just
experimented, I dug in, and Ipracticed and practiced and made
a lot of courses for myself. AndI'm going to say that my first
10 courses were pretty crummy.
And then I started gettingpretty good at it. And they
(03:57):
started becoming morecomfortable. And I learned more
about the body modification thatI was able to do on myself. I
learned what was comfortable,what wasn't what I was willing
to withstand what I wasn't, andI'm someone I really don't like
being uncomfortable. I likebeing fancy, but I don't like
being uncomfortable. So I justkept at it until I created a
(04:20):
course that that I felt good in.
And more and more people wereasking me about the course it's
that I was wearing because theylooked so different from
anything else that was availableat that time. And then that led
to this company that I'm part ofnow. I have had a mentor,
(04:42):
actually a few mentors, to behonest. One was more about being
a sewing professional and thenthe very corset focused mentor
is Mr. Pearl and he was kindenough to let me come work with
him for a month and Paris. Andthen he came in worked with me
(05:02):
in San Francisco for a fewmonths. One of the things that I
learned from him was how much Ialready knew, which was really
eye opening and validatinghonestly,
Lady Grey (05:13):
what would a day in the life of one of the top
corsetieres in the world looklike?
Autumn (05:18):
a day in my life generally begins with some self
care, I'm really dedicated toPilates. And that is followed by
checking email and all of myinternal communication, because,
again, I have two locations. Somaking sure that New Orleans has
(05:39):
what they need, and myproduction team has what they
need, and also my retail staffhas what they need. And then I
sometimes get to go into thestudio and do some creative
work. And sometimes I do youhave to interface entirely with
social media or other forms ofother forms of communication. I
(06:03):
feel like these days I'mfocusing so much more on
communicating about my work thanactually doing my work. But I
think that's that's a piece ofthe current world, that with the
pandemic, I'm just scramblingharder to, to make things go
because the world is sodifferent than than it was a
(06:24):
year ago.
Lady Grey (06:25):
Right and and are you finding that you still do a lot
of custom work right now? Areyou designing things? Are you
actually sewing things? are youman? Oh, my are you managing
stores?
Autumn (06:40):
Yeah, my days are full in a variety of different ways.
And I will say that the workthat makes me happiest is
getting to work directly withclients. And then to also do
hands on work, whether that ispattern drafting, fitting or
actual sewing. I don't oftensell our courses. I have a very,
(07:05):
very skilled couple ofseamstresses. I do embellishment
when we have really, reallyfancy corsets or wedding
ensembles. I am still getting todo custom work as still getting
to design with people.
Lady Grey (07:23):
Speaking of fancy ensembles, and corsets, can you
tell us a little bit more aboutthe very outrageous costume
balls that you participate in?
Autumn (07:35):
My favorite costume ball in the United States, actually,
it's a tie. So it's a tiebetween the Edwardian ball here
in San Francisco and thelabyrinth ball in Los Angeles.
And both are gigantic eventsnow. And people just really
express their creativity andcreate imaginative, wild, wacky,
(08:00):
gorgeous, sexy, funny, dark,scary, all of it, just a little
bit of everything at theseevents, and the performances are
fantastic. I think it's afantastic place for inspiration
to start. When, when you are acostume creative. I think it's a
(08:23):
rare person that just wakes upand says, Well, today I'm going
to make a green dragon costumewith purple wings and, you know,
lulla lulla, most of us need tobe inspired by a reason to wear
said garment. And these eventsare perfect for that. The events
(08:44):
that we go to in Venice arefantastic for inspiring
creativity because the eventorganizers put a lot of time and
effort into creating themes forthese events. So some of them
are themes that can be verywidely interpreted and some of
(09:04):
them are very narrowlyinterpreted. And I love them
both. Because again, it's like ajumping off place for for
creativity.
Lady Grey (09:15):
That's incredible. I am so looking forward to being
able to get back to going toballs and just generally being
around people again. In light ofthat need you just described for
inspiration. How are you, Iguess inspired to create on a
(09:35):
day to day basis.
Autumn (09:37):
I am going to narrow in on the thing that brings me to
work every day and on those dayswhen I don't want to pull myself
out of bed what I focus on sothat I get going and that is the
work that I do. The garmentsthat I create are transformative
(09:58):
and being A person who gets totransform people's lives with a
very, very simple object isincredibly meaningful to me. And
so the kind of interactions thatI have with my clients, I feel
really good about that. And it'snot what I started out to do.
When I was 12 years old anddecided that I wanted to make
(10:21):
pretty things. I didn't realizethat making pretty things was
going to then make people feelpretty. And if, if you were to
ask me kind of earlier in mylife, like well, isn't making
people feel pretty kind ofsuperficial, it's kind of
(10:41):
shallow, I would have said yes.
And through my time working withpeople, I have learned that it
is actually incrediblyimportant. And as we all
struggle with feeling,unattractive, ungainly,
uncomfortable, whatever, likeall of these things, those
moments of transforming into abutterfly, even if it's only
(11:05):
momentary, that is so vital, andkind of vital for us to be able
to do greater work. So if we'refeeling kind of awful about
ourselves, just in our ownphysicality, changing that up,
can then mean we get a littlemore focused again and could
carry on.
Lady Grey (11:26):
That's beautiful. So I really love the sense of
empowerment and strength that Ifeel like I walked away from
dark garden with Personally, I'mcurious, because I feel like
this maybe is something thatpeople who are listening to this
that are really unfamiliar with,all their red flags suddenly go
(11:47):
up.
Autumn (11:48):
Absolutely.
Lady Grey (11:49):
And especially, especially our feminist friends
out there who struggle maybewith the idea of being a
feminist and embracing corsetry.
I feel like this is a big topicthat we could probably talk
about for hours. But what isyour perspective? Or do you have
anything that you want to sharewith people about, I guess,
modern corsetry and how itinteracts with feminism and
(12:12):
strength.
Autumn (12:16):
Early on in my career as a corset maker, I was at an
outdoor vending event, and I waswearing a corset, and a woman
came up to me, and she said, Oh,you should be ashamed of
yourself. I did all of thiswork, so that you wouldn't have
to wear these. And this is justterrible. And I blinked and took
(12:42):
a deep breath. Because itwasn't, I didn't see what I was
doing is counter to what she haddone. And said, immediately,
thank you so much for doing thatwork. Because that means that I
can wear this when I want to,and I never have to. And
(13:03):
additionally, so I started thecompany in 1989. And that was
coming off of the heels of the80s when women were really
trying very hard to find theirplace in the workplace, and
we're having to be very, verymasculine. And our supermodels
(13:25):
were basically androgynous. AndI was getting this message from
all media that my femininecurves were bad. And I rebelled
against that, and, and went kindof the other direction and got
(13:45):
ultra feminine. But I've neverfelt that being feminine means
that you aren't strong, ultrafemininity is incredibly
empowering, and puts you in aplace of strength, when our
bodies are in a posture ofconfidence that feeds into our
(14:05):
emotions, and we actually becomemore confident. So that is, in
fact then counter to being antifeminist.
Lady Grey (14:16):
But and I really truly believe that the message
of strong women has has verylittle to do with what we do or
don't wear, right, I mean, itright? Personally, we make
choices and like you said, Youthink to the woman for giving
you the ability to make thosechoices, right but, but
(14:39):
ultimately, in the end it'smindset, and it's how we, how we
think about ourselves and how wefeel in the clothes that we do
choose. So I'm reminded that redlipstick and heels are just as
powerful as combat boots andoveralls, whatever it is that
shoes as you are quote unquote,uniform, right? Speaking of
(15:03):
mindset, the pandemic hasobviously been really difficult
for retail businesses and theirowners. So how is that impacting
dark garden? And you personally,
Autumn (15:18):
perfect timing, let me tell you, there's nothing better
than opening a second boutiqueright before a global pandemic.
feeling really good about thatwhen.
Lady Grey (15:31):
And and you know what it's been, it's been fascinating
to talk to people about theirpivoting and diversifying and
like all the things that they'vehad to do to manage through
this. So I can imagine thatyou've probably had a similar
experience.
Autumn (15:47):
Yes, yes, definitely.
This is one of those things thatis, for those of us that are
continuing to live, we aregetting stronger and differently
resilient and accessing ouringenuity in new and different
ways all the time. So and I willsay that I'm finding silver
linings, in many places. And Ithink a lot of other people are
(16:09):
as well. And that's humannature, right? When when things
are tough, we learn to laugh,when things are really rough, we
look at the one bright side sothat again, we can carry on and
do good work, if that is what weare drawn to do. Oh, that's
beautiful.
Lady Grey (16:27):
Thank you for that.
Autumn (16:30):
Through this pandemic, and one of those silver linings
has been really meaningfulconversations that I have taken
the time to have. And one of theconversations that I'm reminded
of right now is with one of myartist friends who lives in
Paris, and she said, you know,because we're creatives because
(16:52):
we create everything that we arethinking of, we have to keep
thinking about the best possibleoutcome of all of this and keep
focusing on those tinypositives, because we'll create
them. And because we are socreative, if we are thinking too
much about our nightmares andour worries, we're going to make
(17:13):
that world come true. So we arebeholden as creatives to think
positively whenever possible,
Lady Grey (17:22):
right? And in that we're transformed. You were
talking about transformation ofother people before through your
garments, and everything. But asartists and creators, our
mindset and our manifestation ofall those beautiful creative
things, then transforms usprecisely. So let's stay on dark
(17:42):
garden for a little bit. BecauseI know you kind of describe your
business philosophy or personalphilosophy as being focused on
uncommon beauty and radicalinclusion. And I'm really in
love with those terms. But whatspecifically does that look like
(18:02):
for you? So how does thatdirectly relate to this idea of
transformation.
Autumn (18:08):
So our tagline "supporting uncommon beauty"
came from this ethos of seeingthe beauty in each person. And
sometimes it's, in fact, oftenit's easier for others to see
our beauty than it is forourselves to do so. My focus
(18:28):
with my two boutiques is thateveryone that walks through the
door feels welcome, and feelsseen. And you know, of course
feels heard if if they choose toreally speak, the dedication to
being radically inclusiveprobably comes from my rather
unusual childhood, and alsomostly growing up in the San
(18:53):
Francisco Bay Area, which hasalways been a haven for people
that aren't finding acomfortable place for themselves
in the world. San Francisco is aplace where rebels have always
gravitated towards. And so beingsurrounded by these people from
a young age gave me a sense thatthe world is very open and
(19:15):
saying that somebody is weirdmeans absolutely nothing because
no one is actually normal.
Again, my dedication to beingradically inclusive is being the
safe place for people that aremarginalized.
Lady Grey (19:28):
So I would imagine then, that the people who are
your clients are generallyliving outrageous lives as well.
Autumn (19:36):
Is that accurate? I believe that our clients are
living outrageous lives andsometimes they don't even know
they want to live in outrageouslife until somehow they get
talked into trying on a courseit and suddenly they realize
that that's something that theywant and need.
Lady Grey (19:53):
So I guess I'm really curious about autumns role in
the world of corsetry for thoseHave you that don't know, she's
known as the godmother of moderncorsetry, which is no small
title. But I'm I'm curious, Iguess about you mentoring kind
of a next generation, of coursea tear. Are you doing that? I
(20:15):
mean, I know you haveseamstresses, and obviously you
have people sort of in youratelier that are learning your
craft that way. But are you? Areyou teaching classes? Do you
share information? How does thatmove to the next generation?
Autumn (20:30):
That is such a good question, because I pioneered so
many techniques. I feel thatthat's probably where that
particular moniker came from.
Because I was one of the mostenduring corset makers in the
90s. Yeah, I figured so manythings out. And I did teach a
(20:50):
few classes early on, anddiscovered at that point that I
was training my own competition,and I wasn't really excited
about that. Right. Right. Andthen also, at that point, at
that point, corsets were such aniche garment, there really
(21:11):
weren't too many people wearingthem. So it really did matter
more that I was potentiallytraining my own competition.
These days, corsets have madetheir way into the lexicon of
clothing in a different way. SoI mean, they're never going to
be as ubiquitous as jackets, forexample. But I think that as
(21:33):
long as people are approachingtheir offerings with their own
creativity, and each of us isspecializing, and there is a lot
of room for, for as many corsetmakers as want to be out in the
market.
Lady Grey (21:50):
So at one point, you mentioned the book course, it's
incredible, and and Rumor has itthat you might be beginning to
think about writing a book.
Autumn (22:02):
The rumor mill, yes, it's true. It's true. And one of
the things that I am oftenasked, I speak to a lot of
different fashion students andclasses come through from time
to time. And I talked to themabout my experiences and things
I wish I had known and what Iwould do differently, and like
(22:23):
little tidbits of advice. And Irealized that I wanted to share
that a little bit further thanjust the people that were able
to come through dark garden. Andso I began working on a book,
specifically about being asewing professional and what it
takes. And it is entirely comingfrom my own experiences, and the
(22:47):
many, many lessons that I'velearned along the way. You know,
I've made plenty of mistakes.
And I've inadvertently done abunch of stuff, right? I just
wanted to share that andhopefully save a lot of people
pain and agony, and alsoencourage people to live their
most creative and outrageouslife. But do that in in the
(23:08):
smartest way so that creatingcan be joyous rather than
agonizing.
Lady Grey (23:16):
I love that, of course, because you're talking
about outrageous living. So. SoI'm looking forward to reading
this book, even though I amabout as novice a seamstress, as
you can imagine, but I'mcurious, in addition to this
book, you have any other passionprojects were outrageous dreams.
(23:38):
Is there a big dream that's sortof on the horizon? A little ways
off? Is there something that youknow, if you had unlimited
resources of time, money andpeople you would absolutely do
what what else is brewing inyour head there?
Autumn (23:54):
I would like to say that the dream that made me decide
that opening a second boutiquewas a good plan is this dream of
having boutiques in manydifferent cities, and each one
having the specific romanticflavor that that city has in our
(24:15):
imagination? And I'm going toback that up and talk a little
bit about opening the boutiquein New Orleans. Because everyone
says to me autumn Why do Orleansit's not very close to San
Francisco. Are you from there?
Like what's what's the story?
And it's because New Orleans hasthis deep, dark romantic vibe.
(24:40):
So the first time I visited NewOrleans, I was super excited to
be there and I had thisimagination of what it was going
to be like and it was veryromantic and lush and sexy and
just you know and I got thereand I was trying to find that
And I, I couldn't find it. Itwas all in my imagination and in
(25:05):
the pages of anreise. True storydark garden is named after
concept in the vampire Lestat,the Savage Garden. And I was
saved from myself by someoneelse nabbing that name. And so I
(25:26):
named it the dark gardeninstead, villas. So this big
dream is that each of theseboutiques would be like the
Buddha or have a sex symbol fromeach specific city. I hope that
I hope that the world changes ina way that retail like brick and
(25:46):
mortar retail is viable, so thatI can continue that and it
really can be the lifestylebrand that I dream of. I don't
know if I can really paint thepicture but like my my dream
boutique, you walk in, and it islike you're walking into, for
example, mae Mae West Blue duar.
And there is her beautifulbedstead and a gorgeous gilt
(26:08):
mirror, and her Marabou slippersin her dressing gown and
addressing screen and I don'tknow her, her makeup brushes.
And obviously, of course, it's,you know, the The list goes on.
But all of this is has thisaesthetic and romance to it. And
(26:28):
then you can buy all of it andtake that feeling home with you.
This is such
Lady Grey (26:36):
a beautiful dream, to be able to transform lives in
cities all over the world. So Iam onboard, you let me know, the
next city that I need to beready for. Okay, let's
transition into autumnsoutrageous advice. So this is a
(26:57):
program where I ask on behalf ofmy listeners, if you have a
piece of advice for how they canmake their lives more
outrageous. And so that could bea day to day thing. Or it could
be a one time thing, butsomething that you recommend to
them that you think would maketheir lives more outrageous.
Autumn (27:20):
As a corset maker, I have to say that I think
everyone should, should try on acourse it especially one of
mine, because they are sotransformative. But they are
really, really inspiringgarments. And it is fascinating
for me to watch the change thatcomes over people when they put
these on and who each personbecomes. And I think we all need
(27:42):
to from time to time see whoelse is living inside our skin
with us that isn't accessible ona day to day. So like on a day
to day I just I'm a corset makerthat sounds a lot sexier than it
actually is. But I also ofcourse it were and that person
(28:03):
has a whole lot more fun.
Lady Grey (28:05):
I love that. I love that. And I could totally
concur. Having actually tried onand worn your courses. I
absolutely agree. It is a it isdefinitely something fun and it
is outrageous. So before we wrapup, do you have any shoutouts to
your outrageous supporters orclients or fans? If you have a
(28:26):
fan base? Is there anybody youwant to recognize or say hi to
while we're here?
Autumn (28:32):
At this moment, I want to recognize two of my clients,
Christina and Nancy have amazingsupporters and corset wares.
Nancy is an incredible artistand I worked with her back in
the 90s and she painted aportrait of me. That was just
(28:52):
fantastic. And she has returnedas of course a customer
recently. I'm watching herunfold, unfurl and blossom in a
meaningful way. There's anotherreally really sweet person who
has been wonderful for me. Idefinitely gotta call her a fan.
(29:12):
name is Laura Lee. She came tome post breast cancer and put on
a course it she's a schoolteacher. By the way. She teaches
High School Shakespeare classes,high school drama, she came in
and was like clearly not feelingso so fantastic about her being
and we put a corset on her. Shecompletely transformed and has
(29:36):
said just the kindest, sweetestthings and also made me realize
again that the work that I'mdoing is not shallow because the
change that has made in her lifenot just in that moment but
ongoing has been really reallymeaningful for her and my
knowing that means that I soldher on when when business is
(29:57):
really hard because I know thatthere are more with Men like her
that need the same thing.
Lady Grey (30:01):
So I am not sure if people who are listening to this
know or not, but I am one ofthose women. I just had a double
mastectomy about a year ago. Andthat was after the beautiful
wedding ensemble that youdesigned for me. Yeah. So I do
think at some point, I'd reallylike to bring you that garment
(30:23):
and transform it into something,something new for my new body.
Because I know the power that ithas. And I understand there is
magic that happens. And itreally does. It really does have
the ability to change your life.
Autumn (30:41):
Completely agreed.
Lady Grey (30:42):
How can people find you? Let's make sure that people
know how to connect with you andsee all those fantastic pictures
and maybe visit your shop.
Autumn (30:51):
Yes, one of the best ways is on our website, dark
garden.com. We also have areally beautifully curated
Instagram, which is darker thancorsetry. And then also our New
Orleans store has their ownInstagram, dark garden
underscore Nola. You can find uson Twitter, I think dark garden
(31:14):
San Francisco is our Twitterhandle. And you're welcome to
follow me if you want to seepictures of my beautiful cat. I
miss start garden on Instagram.
We also have a Patreon and Ishare some some fun stuff there.
And that's patreon.com slashdark garden. And I highly
encourage people to support usand encourage our behavior,
(31:36):
their
Lady Grey (31:40):
behavior. I love it.
Outrageous behavior.
Autumn (31:47):
Absolutely all artists need encouragement.
Lady Grey (31:50):
Well, autumn, it has been such a privilege. Thank you
so much for spending time withme today. And for sharing some
really deep and beautiful thingswith us.
Autumn (32:02):
Oh, so much. My pleasure. It's really a joy to
speak with you always and, andthank you for inviting me and
quite honored.
Lady Grey (32:11):
Well, you're always welcome anytime you want to come
back on the show. Thank you somuch. And we thank you for
teaching us to live a littlemore outrageously.
Well, outrageous friends. It hasbeen my honor and my pleasure to
have you here today. I hope thatyou took away some outrageous
ideas for your own life. If youenjoyed yourself, make sure that
(32:33):
you are subscribed to LiveOutrageously with Lady Grey on
whatever your podcast app is.
And you can also connect with mepersonally on facebook
facebook.com/outrageousladygreyor on Instagram at lady.grey.
Also be sure to check out ourpodcast website at
liveoutrageously.com.
(32:56):
Once again, this is Lady Greyencouraging you to go out and
live outrageously.
I was getting this message from all media that my
feminine curves were bad. And Irebelled against that.
Lady Grey (00:15):
Hello, you lovely humans. Welcome to the live
outrageously with Lady graypodcast. I'm your hostess lady
gray. And I have had the greathonor to interview a number of
super inspiring world changersabout how they live
outrageously. So we're going toshare about how they push
(00:36):
boundaries. They fight forchange, and how they seriously
shake up the status quo. I couldnot be more excited to introduce
you to my very first guest.
Autumn Adom, she became known asthe godmother of modern corsetry
after launching dark garden inthe late 80s, reviving corsets
for a modern body and a modernaudience. her devotion to
(00:59):
supporting uncommon beautythrough the practice of radical
inclusion has brought her bothjob satisfaction and a dedicated
international following, whoappreciate the welcome that she
and her team offered everyonewho visits either of her two
boutiques. Welcome, welcome.
(01:20):
Welcome, autumn. It is so greatto have you on the show.
Autumn (01:24):
Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here with you.
Lady Grey (01:27):
It is a huge honor to have you here and to get to
dialogue with you about youroutrageous life.
And for those of you that don'tknow, Autumn and I know each
other, we've worked togetherbefore on some fantastic
projects. So this will be areally fun dialogue, because
we're also friends and we have alot of things in common. And
hopefully we can dig into thosethings and give you a little bit
(01:50):
of a peek into autumns everydaylife. So let's start with a
little background about you andyour corsetry so people can get
to know you better. youcurrently have two shops, is
that correct? That is correct.
Can you tell us a little bitabout those,
Autumn (02:05):
I can tell you about my two shops, I began dark garden
in 1989 out of my garage, andthat grew very gradually into a
sewing business. And that thengrew into being a corset
company. And then that grew intomy having what we call the
(02:26):
flagship store in Hayes Valleyin San Francisco. And there we
also do our production. And thena year and a half ago, I opened
a second location, just aboutique in New Orleans.
Lady Grey (02:42):
So how in the world did you get trained? Are you
self taught? Have you hadmentors that you've had or
people you've apprenticed
Autumn (02:52):
for the most part? Yeah, for the most part, I'm self
taught. And when I started thebusiness, I was fascinated by
courses coming from a historicalstandpoint, I studied costume
history, I worked as a secondhand to an historical costumer,
and she made courses so Ilearned a little bit from her I
(03:13):
learned a little bit from otherhistorical costumers that I
knew. And then I started reallyhoning in on corsetry
specifically, and learned asmuch as I could from existing
historical garments. And there'sa book called corsets and
(03:35):
crinolines at the time, it wasbasically the only book that had
anything, any information aboutcorsetry. And I just
experimented, I dug in, and Ipracticed and practiced and made
a lot of courses for myself. AndI'm going to say that my first
10 courses were pretty crummy.
And then I started gettingpretty good at it. And they
(03:57):
started becoming morecomfortable. And I learned more
about the body modification thatI was able to do on myself. I
learned what was comfortable,what wasn't what I was willing
to withstand what I wasn't, andI'm someone I really don't like
being uncomfortable. I likebeing fancy, but I don't like
being uncomfortable. So I justkept at it until I created a
(04:20):
course that that I felt good in.
And more and more people wereasking me about the course it's
that I was wearing because theylooked so different from
anything else that was availableat that time. And then that led
to this company that I'm part ofnow. I have had a mentor,
(04:42):
actually a few mentors, to behonest. One was more about being
a sewing professional and thenthe very corset focused mentor
is Mr. Pearl and he was kindenough to let me come work with
him for a month and Paris. Andthen he came in worked with me
(05:02):
in San Francisco for a fewmonths. One of the things that I
learned from him was how much Ialready knew, which was really
eye opening and validatinghonestly,
Lady Grey (05:13):
what would a day in the life of one of the top
corsetieres in the world looklike?
Autumn (05:18):
a day in my life generally begins with some self
care, I'm really dedicated toPilates. And that is followed by
checking email and all of myinternal communication, because,
again, I have two locations. Somaking sure that New Orleans has
(05:39):
what they need, and myproduction team has what they
need, and also my retail staffhas what they need. And then I
sometimes get to go into thestudio and do some creative
work. And sometimes I do youhave to interface entirely with
social media or other forms ofother forms of communication. I
(06:03):
feel like these days I'mfocusing so much more on
communicating about my work thanactually doing my work. But I
think that's that's a piece ofthe current world, that with the
pandemic, I'm just scramblingharder to, to make things go
because the world is sodifferent than than it was a
(06:24):
year ago.
Lady Grey (06:25):
Right and and are you finding that you still do a lot
of custom work right now? Areyou designing things? Are you
actually sewing things? are youman? Oh, my are you managing
stores?
Autumn (06:40):
Yeah, my days are full in a variety of different ways.
And I will say that the workthat makes me happiest is
getting to work directly withclients. And then to also do
hands on work, whether that ispattern drafting, fitting or
actual sewing. I don't oftensell our courses. I have a very,
(07:05):
very skilled couple ofseamstresses. I do embellishment
when we have really, reallyfancy corsets or wedding
ensembles. I am still getting todo custom work as still getting
to design with people.
Lady Grey (07:23):
Speaking of fancy ensembles, and corsets, can you
tell us a little bit more aboutthe very outrageous costume
balls that you participate in?
Autumn (07:35):
My favorite costume ball in the United States, actually,
it's a tie. So it's a tiebetween the Edwardian ball here
in San Francisco and thelabyrinth ball in Los Angeles.
And both are gigantic eventsnow. And people just really
express their creativity andcreate imaginative, wild, wacky,
(08:00):
gorgeous, sexy, funny, dark,scary, all of it, just a little
bit of everything at theseevents, and the performances are
fantastic. I think it's afantastic place for inspiration
to start. When, when you are acostume creative. I think it's a
(08:23):
rare person that just wakes upand says, Well, today I'm going
to make a green dragon costumewith purple wings and, you know,
lulla lulla, most of us need tobe inspired by a reason to wear
said garment. And these eventsare perfect for that. The events
(08:44):
that we go to in Venice arefantastic for inspiring
creativity because the eventorganizers put a lot of time and
effort into creating themes forthese events. So some of them
are themes that can be verywidely interpreted and some of
(09:04):
them are very narrowlyinterpreted. And I love them
both. Because again, it's like ajumping off place for for
creativity.
Lady Grey (09:15):
That's incredible. I am so looking forward to being
able to get back to going toballs and just generally being
around people again. In light ofthat need you just described for
inspiration. How are you, Iguess inspired to create on a
(09:35):
day to day basis.
Autumn (09:37):
I am going to narrow in on the thing that brings me to
work every day and on those dayswhen I don't want to pull myself
out of bed what I focus on sothat I get going and that is the
work that I do. The garmentsthat I create are transformative
(09:58):
and being A person who gets totransform people's lives with a
very, very simple object isincredibly meaningful to me. And
so the kind of interactions thatI have with my clients, I feel
really good about that. And it'snot what I started out to do.
When I was 12 years old anddecided that I wanted to make
(10:21):
pretty things. I didn't realizethat making pretty things was
going to then make people feelpretty. And if, if you were to
ask me kind of earlier in mylife, like well, isn't making
people feel pretty kind ofsuperficial, it's kind of
(10:41):
shallow, I would have said yes.
And through my time working withpeople, I have learned that it
is actually incrediblyimportant. And as we all
struggle with feeling,unattractive, ungainly,
uncomfortable, whatever, likeall of these things, those
moments of transforming into abutterfly, even if it's only
(11:05):
momentary, that is so vital, andkind of vital for us to be able
to do greater work. So if we'refeeling kind of awful about
ourselves, just in our ownphysicality, changing that up,
can then mean we get a littlemore focused again and could
carry on.
Lady Grey (11:26):
That's beautiful. So I really love the sense of
empowerment and strength that Ifeel like I walked away from
dark garden with Personally, I'mcurious, because I feel like
this maybe is something thatpeople who are listening to this
that are really unfamiliar with,all their red flags suddenly go
(11:47):
up.
Autumn (11:48):
Absolutely.
Lady Grey (11:49):
And especially, especially our feminist friends
out there who struggle maybewith the idea of being a
feminist and embracing corsetry.
I feel like this is a big topicthat we could probably talk
about for hours. But what isyour perspective? Or do you have
anything that you want to sharewith people about, I guess,
modern corsetry and how itinteracts with feminism and
(12:12):
strength.
Autumn (12:16):
Early on in my career as a corset maker, I was at an
outdoor vending event, and I waswearing a corset, and a woman
came up to me, and she said, Oh,you should be ashamed of
yourself. I did all of thiswork, so that you wouldn't have
to wear these. And this is justterrible. And I blinked and took
(12:42):
a deep breath. Because itwasn't, I didn't see what I was
doing is counter to what she haddone. And said, immediately,
thank you so much for doing thatwork. Because that means that I
can wear this when I want to,and I never have to. And
(13:03):
additionally, so I started thecompany in 1989. And that was
coming off of the heels of the80s when women were really
trying very hard to find theirplace in the workplace, and
we're having to be very, verymasculine. And our supermodels
(13:25):
were basically androgynous. AndI was getting this message from
all media that my femininecurves were bad. And I rebelled
against that, and, and went kindof the other direction and got
(13:45):
ultra feminine. But I've neverfelt that being feminine means
that you aren't strong, ultrafemininity is incredibly
empowering, and puts you in aplace of strength, when our
bodies are in a posture ofconfidence that feeds into our
(14:05):
emotions, and we actually becomemore confident. So that is, in
fact then counter to being antifeminist.
Lady Grey (14:16):
But and I really truly believe that the message
of strong women has has verylittle to do with what we do or
don't wear, right, I mean, itright? Personally, we make
choices and like you said, Youthink to the woman for giving
you the ability to make thosechoices, right but, but
(14:39):
ultimately, in the end it'smindset, and it's how we, how we
think about ourselves and how wefeel in the clothes that we do
choose. So I'm reminded that redlipstick and heels are just as
powerful as combat boots andoveralls, whatever it is that
shoes as you are quote unquote,uniform, right? Speaking of
(15:03):
mindset, the pandemic hasobviously been really difficult
for retail businesses and theirowners. So how is that impacting
dark garden? And you personally,
Autumn (15:18):
perfect timing, let me tell you, there's nothing better
than opening a second boutiqueright before a global pandemic.
feeling really good about thatwhen.
Lady Grey (15:31):
And and you know what it's been, it's been fascinating
to talk to people about theirpivoting and diversifying and
like all the things that they'vehad to do to manage through
this. So I can imagine thatyou've probably had a similar
experience.
Autumn (15:47):
Yes, yes, definitely.
This is one of those things thatis, for those of us that are
continuing to live, we aregetting stronger and differently
resilient and accessing ouringenuity in new and different
ways all the time. So and I willsay that I'm finding silver
linings, in many places. And Ithink a lot of other people are
(16:09):
as well. And that's humannature, right? When when things
are tough, we learn to laugh,when things are really rough, we
look at the one bright side sothat again, we can carry on and
do good work, if that is what weare drawn to do. Oh, that's
beautiful.
Lady Grey (16:27):
Thank you for that.
Autumn (16:30):
Through this pandemic, and one of those silver linings
has been really meaningfulconversations that I have taken
the time to have. And one of theconversations that I'm reminded
of right now is with one of myartist friends who lives in
Paris, and she said, you know,because we're creatives because
(16:52):
we create everything that we arethinking of, we have to keep
thinking about the best possibleoutcome of all of this and keep
focusing on those tinypositives, because we'll create
them. And because we are socreative, if we are thinking too
much about our nightmares andour worries, we're going to make
(17:13):
that world come true. So we arebeholden as creatives to think
positively whenever possible,
Lady Grey (17:22):
right? And in that we're transformed. You were
talking about transformation ofother people before through your
garments, and everything. But asartists and creators, our
mindset and our manifestation ofall those beautiful creative
things, then transforms usprecisely. So let's stay on dark
(17:42):
garden for a little bit. BecauseI know you kind of describe your
business philosophy or personalphilosophy as being focused on
uncommon beauty and radicalinclusion. And I'm really in
love with those terms. But whatspecifically does that look like
(18:02):
for you? So how does thatdirectly relate to this idea of
transformation.
Autumn (18:08):
So our tagline "supporting uncommon beauty"
came from this ethos of seeingthe beauty in each person. And
sometimes it's, in fact, oftenit's easier for others to see
our beauty than it is forourselves to do so. My focus
(18:28):
with my two boutiques is thateveryone that walks through the
door feels welcome, and feelsseen. And you know, of course
feels heard if if they choose toreally speak, the dedication to
being radically inclusiveprobably comes from my rather
unusual childhood, and alsomostly growing up in the San
(18:53):
Francisco Bay Area, which hasalways been a haven for people
that aren't finding acomfortable place for themselves
in the world. San Francisco is aplace where rebels have always
gravitated towards. And so beingsurrounded by these people from
a young age gave me a sense thatthe world is very open and
(19:15):
saying that somebody is weirdmeans absolutely nothing because
no one is actually normal.
Again, my dedication to beingradically inclusive is being the
safe place for people that aremarginalized.
Lady Grey (19:28):
So I would imagine then, that the people who are
your clients are generallyliving outrageous lives as well.
Autumn (19:36):
Is that accurate? I believe that our clients are
living outrageous lives andsometimes they don't even know
they want to live in outrageouslife until somehow they get
talked into trying on a courseit and suddenly they realize
that that's something that theywant and need.
Lady Grey (19:53):
So I guess I'm really curious about autumns role in
the world of corsetry for thoseHave you that don't know, she's
known as the godmother of moderncorsetry, which is no small
title. But I'm I'm curious, Iguess about you mentoring kind
of a next generation, of coursea tear. Are you doing that? I
(20:15):
mean, I know you haveseamstresses, and obviously you
have people sort of in youratelier that are learning your
craft that way. But are you? Areyou teaching classes? Do you
share information? How does thatmove to the next generation?
Autumn (20:30):
That is such a good question, because I pioneered so
many techniques. I feel thatthat's probably where that
particular moniker came from.
Because I was one of the mostenduring corset makers in the
90s. Yeah, I figured so manythings out. And I did teach a
(20:50):
few classes early on, anddiscovered at that point that I
was training my own competition,and I wasn't really excited
about that. Right. Right. Andthen also, at that point, at
that point, corsets were such aniche garment, there really
(21:11):
weren't too many people wearingthem. So it really did matter
more that I was potentiallytraining my own competition.
These days, corsets have madetheir way into the lexicon of
clothing in a different way. SoI mean, they're never going to
be as ubiquitous as jackets, forexample. But I think that as
(21:33):
long as people are approachingtheir offerings with their own
creativity, and each of us isspecializing, and there is a lot
of room for, for as many corsetmakers as want to be out in the
market.
Lady Grey (21:50):
So at one point, you mentioned the book course, it's
incredible, and and Rumor has itthat you might be beginning to
think about writing a book.
Autumn (22:02):
The rumor mill, yes, it's true. It's true. And one of
the things that I am oftenasked, I speak to a lot of
different fashion students andclasses come through from time
to time. And I talked to themabout my experiences and things
I wish I had known and what Iwould do differently, and like
(22:23):
little tidbits of advice. And Irealized that I wanted to share
that a little bit further thanjust the people that were able
to come through dark garden. Andso I began working on a book,
specifically about being asewing professional and what it
takes. And it is entirely comingfrom my own experiences, and the
(22:47):
many, many lessons that I'velearned along the way. You know,
I've made plenty of mistakes.
And I've inadvertently done abunch of stuff, right? I just
wanted to share that andhopefully save a lot of people
pain and agony, and alsoencourage people to live their
most creative and outrageouslife. But do that in in the
(23:08):
smartest way so that creatingcan be joyous rather than
agonizing.
Lady Grey (23:16):
I love that, of course, because you're talking
about outrageous living. So. SoI'm looking forward to reading
this book, even though I amabout as novice a seamstress, as
you can imagine, but I'mcurious, in addition to this
book, you have any other passionprojects were outrageous dreams.
(23:38):
Is there a big dream that's sortof on the horizon? A little ways
off? Is there something that youknow, if you had unlimited
resources of time, money andpeople you would absolutely do
what what else is brewing inyour head there?
Autumn (23:54):
I would like to say that the dream that made me decide
that opening a second boutiquewas a good plan is this dream of
having boutiques in manydifferent cities, and each one
having the specific romanticflavor that that city has in our
(24:15):
imagination? And I'm going toback that up and talk a little
bit about opening the boutiquein New Orleans. Because everyone
says to me autumn Why do Orleansit's not very close to San
Francisco. Are you from there?
Like what's what's the story?
And it's because New Orleans hasthis deep, dark romantic vibe.
(24:40):
So the first time I visited NewOrleans, I was super excited to
be there and I had thisimagination of what it was going
to be like and it was veryromantic and lush and sexy and
just you know and I got thereand I was trying to find that
And I, I couldn't find it. Itwas all in my imagination and in
(25:05):
the pages of anreise. True storydark garden is named after
concept in the vampire Lestat,the Savage Garden. And I was
saved from myself by someoneelse nabbing that name. And so I
(25:26):
named it the dark gardeninstead, villas. So this big
dream is that each of theseboutiques would be like the
Buddha or have a sex symbol fromeach specific city. I hope that
I hope that the world changes ina way that retail like brick and
(25:46):
mortar retail is viable, so thatI can continue that and it
really can be the lifestylebrand that I dream of. I don't
know if I can really paint thepicture but like my my dream
boutique, you walk in, and it islike you're walking into, for
example, mae Mae West Blue duar.
And there is her beautifulbedstead and a gorgeous gilt
(26:08):
mirror, and her Marabou slippersin her dressing gown and
addressing screen and I don'tknow her, her makeup brushes.
And obviously, of course, it's,you know, the The list goes on.
But all of this is has thisaesthetic and romance to it. And
(26:28):
then you can buy all of it andtake that feeling home with you.
This is such
Lady Grey (26:36):
a beautiful dream, to be able to transform lives in
cities all over the world. So Iam onboard, you let me know, the
next city that I need to beready for. Okay, let's
transition into autumnsoutrageous advice. So this is a
(26:57):
program where I ask on behalf ofmy listeners, if you have a
piece of advice for how they canmake their lives more
outrageous. And so that could bea day to day thing. Or it could
be a one time thing, butsomething that you recommend to
them that you think would maketheir lives more outrageous.
Autumn (27:20):
As a corset maker, I have to say that I think
everyone should, should try on acourse it especially one of
mine, because they are sotransformative. But they are
really, really inspiringgarments. And it is fascinating
for me to watch the change thatcomes over people when they put
these on and who each personbecomes. And I think we all need
(27:42):
to from time to time see whoelse is living inside our skin
with us that isn't accessible ona day to day. So like on a day
to day I just I'm a corset makerthat sounds a lot sexier than it
actually is. But I also ofcourse it were and that person
(28:03):
has a whole lot more fun.
Lady Grey (28:05):
I love that. I love that. And I could totally
concur. Having actually tried onand worn your courses. I
absolutely agree. It is a it isdefinitely something fun and it
is outrageous. So before we wrapup, do you have any shoutouts to
your outrageous supporters orclients or fans? If you have a
(28:26):
fan base? Is there anybody youwant to recognize or say hi to
while we're here?
Autumn (28:32):
At this moment, I want to recognize two of my clients,
Christina and Nancy have amazingsupporters and corset wares.
Nancy is an incredible artistand I worked with her back in
the 90s and she painted aportrait of me. That was just
(28:52):
fantastic. And she has returnedas of course a customer
recently. I'm watching herunfold, unfurl and blossom in a
meaningful way. There's anotherreally really sweet person who
has been wonderful for me. Idefinitely gotta call her a fan.
(29:12):
name is Laura Lee. She came tome post breast cancer and put on
a course it she's a schoolteacher. By the way. She teaches
High School Shakespeare classes,high school drama, she came in
and was like clearly not feelingso so fantastic about her being
and we put a corset on her. Shecompletely transformed and has
(29:36):
said just the kindest, sweetestthings and also made me realize
again that the work that I'mdoing is not shallow because the
change that has made in her lifenot just in that moment but
ongoing has been really reallymeaningful for her and my
knowing that means that I soldher on when when business is
(29:57):
really hard because I know thatthere are more with Men like her
that need the same thing.
Lady Grey (30:01):
So I am not sure if people who are listening to this
know or not, but I am one ofthose women. I just had a double
mastectomy about a year ago. Andthat was after the beautiful
wedding ensemble that youdesigned for me. Yeah. So I do
think at some point, I'd reallylike to bring you that garment
(30:23):
and transform it into something,something new for my new body.
Because I know the power that ithas. And I understand there is
magic that happens. And itreally does. It really does have
the ability to change your life.
Autumn (30:41):
Completely agreed.
Lady Grey (30:42):
How can people find you? Let's make sure that people
know how to connect with you andsee all those fantastic pictures
and maybe visit your shop.
Autumn (30:51):
Yes, one of the best ways is on our website, dark
garden.com. We also have areally beautifully curated
Instagram, which is darker thancorsetry. And then also our New
Orleans store has their ownInstagram, dark garden
underscore Nola. You can find uson Twitter, I think dark garden
(31:14):
San Francisco is our Twitterhandle. And you're welcome to
follow me if you want to seepictures of my beautiful cat. I
miss start garden on Instagram.
We also have a Patreon and Ishare some some fun stuff there.
And that's patreon.com slashdark garden. And I highly
encourage people to support usand encourage our behavior,
(31:36):
their
Lady Grey (31:40):
behavior. I love it.
Outrageous behavior.
Autumn (31:47):
Absolutely all artists need encouragement.
Lady Grey (31:50):
Well, autumn, it has been such a privilege. Thank you
so much for spending time withme today. And for sharing some
really deep and beautiful thingswith us.
Autumn (32:02):
Oh, so much. My pleasure. It's really a joy to
speak with you always and, andthank you for inviting me and
quite honored.
Lady Grey (32:11):
Well, you're always welcome anytime you want to come
back on the show. Thank you somuch. And we thank you for
teaching us to live a littlemore outrageously.
Well, outrageous friends. It hasbeen my honor and my pleasure to
have you here today. I hope thatyou took away some outrageous
ideas for your own life. If youenjoyed yourself, make sure that
(32:33):
you are subscribed to LiveOutrageously with Lady Grey on
whatever your podcast app is.
And you can also connect with mepersonally on facebook
facebook.com/outrageousladygreyor on Instagram at lady.grey.
Also be sure to check out ourpodcast website at
liveoutrageously.com.
(32:56):
Once again, this is Lady Greyencouraging you to go out and
live outrageously.
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