June 25, 2025 • 10 mins
In this episode we discuss the DOJs proposed merger of the ATF and DEA. Is it a good idea?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Well, welcome to the Lib Shootpodcast.
My name is Jeff Doll.
I've been a licensed farm dealerfor the last 18 years, and this
podcast talk about all thingsrelated to Second Amendment, as
well as anything else going inthe world, A sports story, or.
Anything else that I might findinteresting.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
So first, before we get intothe, the topic of the day, I
just wanna send praises out toGod for what he has done in
(00:37):
terms of the cease fire betweenIran and in Israel.
And it, it is just a, it's amiracle and, you know, praise to
him.
Kudos to president Trump for,for negotiating this.
And maybe we are on a path.
To seeing some true, true peacein this world.
But just again, I just wannagive out all praises to God for
(01:00):
that.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
Well, we've got a big one todayand there's a big thing going in
Washington and it's goteverybody in this two a
community buzzing.
And it is around AttorneyGeneral Pam Bonney and the.
Trump administration pushing aproposal to merge the Bureau of
Alcohol, tobacco, firearms andExplosives.
(01:20):
Yeah, the A TF My favoriteagency with the DEA, the Drug
Enforcement Ag Agency.
So the idea's got folks on bothsides of the gun debate riled up
and for once they're kind ofagreeing on things and, and the
fact is that they don't like it,but they don't like it for very
different reasons.
So get ready.
(01:41):
Grab your stuff and let's sit,let's get ready to get this
going.
So, but before we dive in, ifyou don't haven't, please
subscribe to the podcast onApple Podcast Fountain or
wherever you listen.
Follow me on at Jeff Dole.
True social or just you know,shoot me an email at
jeff@livetoshoot.com.
And if you wanna support thisshow, go to the link in the
(02:02):
notes and get yourself some$25of free ammo.
Right there.
And then that'll help supportthis show.
So let's get to it.
The A-T-F-D-E-A merger proposalhit the headlines big time.
And it was first, you know,floated by I guess the Deputy
Attorney General Todd Blancheand Palm Ba, Pam Bondy.
She's been out there defendingit in the congressional hearing
(02:25):
just a couple days ago in theplan.
Fold the a TS functions into theDA creating a super agency.
The DOJs pitch is that it'llstreamline operations.
Cut costs and make lawenforcement more efficient
because as Pam Bondy says, gunsand drugs go together.
Sounds simple, right?
Well, I don't know.
(02:45):
'cause there's a lot of layerson going on with this.
So let's start with the promerger side.
The folks in the Trump camp arewaving the efficiency flag.
Bond needs been crystal clear inher testimony before the House
Appropriations Committee, shesays this mergers about getting
a TF agents out on the streetswith DEA agents focusing on real
criminals, you know, drugtraffickers, cartels, and the
(03:07):
like, instead of in her words.
Knocking on doors of legal gunowners in the middle of the
night, she's framing it as a winfor law abiding gun owners,
promising that a TF won't beharassing folks like you and me
over our constitutionalprotective firearms.
I can't argue with that, I haveto say I like that idea, but you
know, I.
Is that what's really gonnahappen?
(03:28):
And the DOJs budget documents,you know, they back up what she
says.
The merger will lead toefficiency and resources, case
de deconfliction regulatoryefforts and reduction of
duplicate functions.
Now give credit where credit'sdue bonding.
Been Pro two A lately.
She fired the A TF ChiefCounsel, Pamela Hicks, who was a
(03:48):
hold order from Biden.
She's repealed that zerotolerance policy that was
yanking licenses from FFLs likeme over just paperwork typos.
She's set up the SecondAmendment task force to push
back on government overreach.
So she's when she says, she'ssays mergers about keeping a TF
focused on bad guys and not lawabiding citizens, I wanna
believe her.
(04:08):
The idea of cutting bureaubureaucratic bloat and making
sure agencies aren't stepping oneach other's toes.
It's not a bad idea, but let'sbe real.
Guns and drugs do go totogether.
In the criminal world, cartelsaren't exactly known for
following the NFA right plus.
There's the budget angle.
Trump admin is proposing a 26%cut to the A TF budget down to
(04:32):
1.2 billion from 1.625 billion,and a 4.4% trim to the DEA.
They're saying this merger willsave taxpayer dollars and will
keep the good parts of the a TFlike their explosive training.
Alabama and Huntsville intactand even, told rep Dale Strong
that no cuts are planned.
That facility for folks who'sbeen screaming to defund or
(04:53):
boss, the A TF, and I know thereare a lot out there, this could
be a step in the rightdirection.
And I am a propo, a bigproponent of cutting spending.
I think all these agenciesbloated, but let's pump the
brakes.
Efficiency government.
Do they go together?
Is it really possible to, tomake'em efficient, or are we
(05:14):
just gonna have a big bloatedgun agency?
I'm skeptical and there are alot of other people out there.
I.
Now let's talk about theopposition because that
proposal's got people just goingcrazy first, the Pro two, a
crowd, and I'm talking to peoplelike Guns of America, fire and
Policy Coalition, and variouspeople on Twitter.
They're calling this merger ahorrible idea and a super agency
(05:37):
of gun control enforcers.
The Firearms Policy CollectionCoalition flat out says it's an
abomination that could create ataxpayer funded super agency tar
to target gun owners.
Their big worry merging the A TFinto the da, which has a bigger
budget and broader reach, couldmean more resources for anti-gun
policies down the road,especially if a gun grabbing
(05:59):
administration gets in.
Imagine the future where theDA's massive budget gets
redirected to crack down onlegal gun owners under the guise
of drug enforcement.
That's a nightmare.
Others are, are, are saying, youknow, Pam, Pam Bonney herself is
the danger to her rightsdefending this merger and some
are even calling her to bereplaced.
They point to her past as theFlorida Ag where she backed red
(06:23):
flag laws and age restrictionsafter parkland and moves that
still have even bad taste in themouths of those of the no
compromised gun folks.
They fear here is that PamBondy's, not the Rock Solid two
a champion, and this is just aTrojan horse for more
regulation.
Not lift.
Then you got the other side,like the Giffords and the Brady
(06:44):
groups who hated the, who hatethis merger for an entirely
different reason.
They're crying that old weakenefforts to stop gun traffickers,
straw purchasers, and rogue gundealers.
Emma Brown from Giffords says,slashing a TF budget and folding
into the DA is like defundingthe police when it comes to gun
crime.
They are the A TF specializedrole in enforcing federal
(07:05):
firearms laws will get dilutedin a bigger agency focused on
drugs.
Lindsey Nichols from Giffordsworn it would threaten the
enforcement of federal firearmslicense laws and Brady United
claimed claiming that it is agift to the gun industry and
they'll be let shady dealers offthe hook so that you know.
Again, just to digress here fromsome other thoughts I had, you
(07:29):
know, that is where, you know,the, the gun control groups are
if that they are still focusedon going after the legal gun
owners and the legal gundealers, and that's what this,
you know, this does scare them.
And so sometimes you gotta lookat how your enemy's reacting to
these proposals because they'reafraid now.
We're face, the focus actuallygoes on true criminals with the
(07:52):
Merck because of the merger,then we won't be able to go
after the legal guys.
Right?
So that is in my mind, one thingto keep in mind.
You know, but we're not gonnashed any tears for'em.
Like I said, love it or hate it.
The A A TF does handle thingslike ballistics and explosive
training that even PRO two Afolks see as valuable.
So.
(08:12):
If those things get lost in theshuffle or funneled, it could
hurt legitimate law enforcementefforts.
So, but this thing does have toget congressional approval.
And with the 20 2400 fundingbill explicitly barring a TF
functions from beingtransferred, this plan might be
dead in the water unlessCongress signs off.
So, where do I stand?
(08:33):
Well, like I said, I'm allreigning in the A TF.
I've always been that they'vebeen a thorn on the side of the
law abiding gun owners fordecades.
The stuff that they've done withpistol braces and gun ghost guns
and the zero tolerancy.
Are, are just out of control.
Bonding has done some goodthings by rolling back some of
these ideas and the a TS, butit's got me nervous'cause the A
(08:55):
TF is bad enough on its own, butfolding them into the DA feels
like trading one devil foranother.
The DA's got its own laundrylist of issues, overreach, civil
asset, Forer, you name it.
Combining them with the A DFcould create a Frankenstein
monster of an agency, and Idon't really trust Washington to
keep it on lease, especially ifpolitical winds shift in a few
(09:18):
years.
The second amendment's tooscare, too sacred to gamble on
promises of efficiency.
I get the appeal, streamliningoperations, focusing on the
cartels, real criminals, blah,blah, blah.
You've, you've seen too manyreforms turn into excuses for
moral control and the fact thatgun control groups are screaming
about this too.
It just tells me nobody reallyknows how this will shake out.
(09:40):
So here's my take.
If we're gonna mess with the ATF, let's talk about ABOs in the
model out outright.
Just stripping it down to itsbare bones, not merging it with
a bigger beast and keepingthings that are important, like
explosive trainings in theballistic labs and you know,
licensing new dealers and thingslike that.
But if Pam Bonnie wants to proveshe's approved, I.
(10:01):
Two, a champion that she claimsto be, she needs to start
listening to the gun communityand not the suits in dc.
So what do you think?
Shoot me an email.
Let me know what you think aboutit.
Hit me up on X at Jeff dod dropme an email at Jeff at live to
shoot.
Tell me what you think aboutthis potential merger.
Curious to see what yourthoughts are.
You can send me a text message.
(10:22):
There's a link in the show notesas well.
So appreciate you listening.
Have a great week and I willtalk to you later.
Well, welcome to the Lib Shootpodcast.
My name is Jeff Doll.
I've been a licensed farm dealerfor the last 18 years, and this
podcast talk about all thingsrelated to Second Amendment, as
well as anything else going inthe world, A sports story, or.
Anything else that I might findinteresting.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
So first, before we get intothe, the topic of the day, I
just wanna send praises out toGod for what he has done in
(00:37):
terms of the cease fire betweenIran and in Israel.
And it, it is just a, it's amiracle and, you know, praise to
him.
Kudos to president Trump for,for negotiating this.
And maybe we are on a path.
To seeing some true, true peacein this world.
But just again, I just wannagive out all praises to God for
(01:00):
that.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
Well, we've got a big one todayand there's a big thing going in
Washington and it's goteverybody in this two a
community buzzing.
And it is around AttorneyGeneral Pam Bonney and the.
Trump administration pushing aproposal to merge the Bureau of
Alcohol, tobacco, firearms andExplosives.
(01:20):
Yeah, the A TF My favoriteagency with the DEA, the Drug
Enforcement Ag Agency.
So the idea's got folks on bothsides of the gun debate riled up
and for once they're kind ofagreeing on things and, and the
fact is that they don't like it,but they don't like it for very
different reasons.
So get ready.
(01:41):
Grab your stuff and let's sit,let's get ready to get this
going.
So, but before we dive in, ifyou don't haven't, please
subscribe to the podcast onApple Podcast Fountain or
wherever you listen.
Follow me on at Jeff Dole.
True social or just you know,shoot me an email at
jeff@livetoshoot.com.
And if you wanna support thisshow, go to the link in the
(02:02):
notes and get yourself some$25of free ammo.
Right there.
And then that'll help supportthis show.
So let's get to it.
The A-T-F-D-E-A merger proposalhit the headlines big time.
And it was first, you know,floated by I guess the Deputy
Attorney General Todd Blancheand Palm Ba, Pam Bondy.
She's been out there defendingit in the congressional hearing
(02:25):
just a couple days ago in theplan.
Fold the a TS functions into theDA creating a super agency.
The DOJs pitch is that it'llstreamline operations.
Cut costs and make lawenforcement more efficient
because as Pam Bondy says, gunsand drugs go together.
Sounds simple, right?
Well, I don't know.
(02:45):
'cause there's a lot of layerson going on with this.
So let's start with the promerger side.
The folks in the Trump camp arewaving the efficiency flag.
Bond needs been crystal clear inher testimony before the House
Appropriations Committee, shesays this mergers about getting
a TF agents out on the streetswith DEA agents focusing on real
criminals, you know, drugtraffickers, cartels, and the
(03:07):
like, instead of in her words.
Knocking on doors of legal gunowners in the middle of the
night, she's framing it as a winfor law abiding gun owners,
promising that a TF won't beharassing folks like you and me
over our constitutionalprotective firearms.
I can't argue with that, I haveto say I like that idea, but you
know, I.
Is that what's really gonnahappen?
(03:28):
And the DOJs budget documents,you know, they back up what she
says.
The merger will lead toefficiency and resources, case
de deconfliction regulatoryefforts and reduction of
duplicate functions.
Now give credit where credit'sdue bonding.
Been Pro two A lately.
She fired the A TF ChiefCounsel, Pamela Hicks, who was a
(03:48):
hold order from Biden.
She's repealed that zerotolerance policy that was
yanking licenses from FFLs likeme over just paperwork typos.
She's set up the SecondAmendment task force to push
back on government overreach.
So she's when she says, she'ssays mergers about keeping a TF
focused on bad guys and not lawabiding citizens, I wanna
believe her.
(04:08):
The idea of cutting bureaubureaucratic bloat and making
sure agencies aren't stepping oneach other's toes.
It's not a bad idea, but let'sbe real.
Guns and drugs do go totogether.
In the criminal world, cartelsaren't exactly known for
following the NFA right plus.
There's the budget angle.
Trump admin is proposing a 26%cut to the A TF budget down to
(04:32):
1.2 billion from 1.625 billion,and a 4.4% trim to the DEA.
They're saying this merger willsave taxpayer dollars and will
keep the good parts of the a TFlike their explosive training.
Alabama and Huntsville intactand even, told rep Dale Strong
that no cuts are planned.
That facility for folks who'sbeen screaming to defund or
(04:53):
boss, the A TF, and I know thereare a lot out there, this could
be a step in the rightdirection.
And I am a propo, a bigproponent of cutting spending.
I think all these agenciesbloated, but let's pump the
brakes.
Efficiency government.
Do they go together?
Is it really possible to, tomake'em efficient, or are we
(05:14):
just gonna have a big bloatedgun agency?
I'm skeptical and there are alot of other people out there.
I.
Now let's talk about theopposition because that
proposal's got people just goingcrazy first, the Pro two, a
crowd, and I'm talking to peoplelike Guns of America, fire and
Policy Coalition, and variouspeople on Twitter.
They're calling this merger ahorrible idea and a super agency
(05:37):
of gun control enforcers.
The Firearms Policy CollectionCoalition flat out says it's an
abomination that could create ataxpayer funded super agency tar
to target gun owners.
Their big worry merging the A TFinto the da, which has a bigger
budget and broader reach, couldmean more resources for anti-gun
policies down the road,especially if a gun grabbing
(05:59):
administration gets in.
Imagine the future where theDA's massive budget gets
redirected to crack down onlegal gun owners under the guise
of drug enforcement.
That's a nightmare.
Others are, are, are saying, youknow, Pam, Pam Bonney herself is
the danger to her rightsdefending this merger and some
are even calling her to bereplaced.
They point to her past as theFlorida Ag where she backed red
(06:23):
flag laws and age restrictionsafter parkland and moves that
still have even bad taste in themouths of those of the no
compromised gun folks.
They fear here is that PamBondy's, not the Rock Solid two
a champion, and this is just aTrojan horse for more
regulation.
Not lift.
Then you got the other side,like the Giffords and the Brady
(06:44):
groups who hated the, who hatethis merger for an entirely
different reason.
They're crying that old weakenefforts to stop gun traffickers,
straw purchasers, and rogue gundealers.
Emma Brown from Giffords says,slashing a TF budget and folding
into the DA is like defundingthe police when it comes to gun
crime.
They are the A TF specializedrole in enforcing federal
(07:05):
firearms laws will get dilutedin a bigger agency focused on
drugs.
Lindsey Nichols from Giffordsworn it would threaten the
enforcement of federal firearmslicense laws and Brady United
claimed claiming that it is agift to the gun industry and
they'll be let shady dealers offthe hook so that you know.
Again, just to digress here fromsome other thoughts I had, you
(07:29):
know, that is where, you know,the, the gun control groups are
if that they are still focusedon going after the legal gun
owners and the legal gundealers, and that's what this,
you know, this does scare them.
And so sometimes you gotta lookat how your enemy's reacting to
these proposals because they'reafraid now.
We're face, the focus actuallygoes on true criminals with the
(07:52):
Merck because of the merger,then we won't be able to go
after the legal guys.
Right?
So that is in my mind, one thingto keep in mind.
You know, but we're not gonnashed any tears for'em.
Like I said, love it or hate it.
The A A TF does handle thingslike ballistics and explosive
training that even PRO two Afolks see as valuable.
So.
(08:12):
If those things get lost in theshuffle or funneled, it could
hurt legitimate law enforcementefforts.
So, but this thing does have toget congressional approval.
And with the 20 2400 fundingbill explicitly barring a TF
functions from beingtransferred, this plan might be
dead in the water unlessCongress signs off.
So, where do I stand?
(08:33):
Well, like I said, I'm allreigning in the A TF.
I've always been that they'vebeen a thorn on the side of the
law abiding gun owners fordecades.
The stuff that they've done withpistol braces and gun ghost guns
and the zero tolerancy.
Are, are just out of control.
Bonding has done some goodthings by rolling back some of
these ideas and the a TS, butit's got me nervous'cause the A
(08:55):
TF is bad enough on its own, butfolding them into the DA feels
like trading one devil foranother.
The DA's got its own laundrylist of issues, overreach, civil
asset, Forer, you name it.
Combining them with the A DFcould create a Frankenstein
monster of an agency, and Idon't really trust Washington to
keep it on lease, especially ifpolitical winds shift in a few
(09:18):
years.
The second amendment's tooscare, too sacred to gamble on
promises of efficiency.
I get the appeal, streamliningoperations, focusing on the
cartels, real criminals, blah,blah, blah.
You've, you've seen too manyreforms turn into excuses for
moral control and the fact thatgun control groups are screaming
about this too.
It just tells me nobody reallyknows how this will shake out.
(09:40):
So here's my take.
If we're gonna mess with the ATF, let's talk about ABOs in the
model out outright.
Just stripping it down to itsbare bones, not merging it with
a bigger beast and keepingthings that are important, like
explosive trainings in theballistic labs and you know,
licensing new dealers and thingslike that.
But if Pam Bonnie wants to proveshe's approved, I.
(10:01):
Two, a champion that she claimsto be, she needs to start
listening to the gun communityand not the suits in dc.
So what do you think?
Shoot me an email.
Let me know what you think aboutit.
Hit me up on X at Jeff dod dropme an email at Jeff at live to
shoot.
Tell me what you think aboutthis potential merger.
Curious to see what yourthoughts are.
You can send me a text message.
(10:22):
There's a link in the show notesas well.
So appreciate you listening.
Have a great week and I willtalk to you later.
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