Episode 104: Actuaries in Leadership - Part 9

My guest for Episode 104 is Dave Dillon, FSA, FCA, MAAA, Senior Vice President & Principal at Lewis & Ellis and President-Elect of the Society of Actuaries.

The theme for the episode is 𝗔𝗰𝘁𝘂𝗮𝗿𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗲𝗿𝘀𝗵𝗶𝗽 - 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁 𝟵.

Dave and I covered the following topics:⁣

✅ What inspired Dave to run for SOA President
✅ Duties of the SOA President-Elect
✅ SOA sections/communities and committees 
✅ How Dave has benefited from posting actively on LinkedIn
✅ How actuaries might be impacted by a change in administration 
✅ Dave’s vision for the actuarial profession

Time Markers
2:00: Dave’s SOA Presidential run. 

3:47: Previous downward trend in exam takers, data science as an alternative for actuaries, and modernizing the education path.

8:49: Dave’s long term vision for presidential term and beyond (tracking exam takers, positioning actuaries in wider fields). 

10:48: Duties of the SOA President-Elect (executive committee, liaison to sections/communities, ambassadorship, and building relationships).

15:50: SOA sections/communities and focus on professional development. 

23:19: Improving SOA’s engagement with the international community (regional targeted committees). 

24:37: Engaging with actuarial community on LinkedIn (sharing insights, building knowledge base, and starting conversations).

29:07: How change in administrations impact actuarial work (Affordable Care Act extended premium subsidies, short-term health and hospital indemnity insurance). 

33:20: Healthcare cost trends (services utilization, medical inflation exceeding general inflation).

35:11: Connection between legislative changes and actuarial work (state-level silver loading, premium impacts, and repricing).

39:04: Expanding the scope of the actuarial profession (HOA homeowners agreements illustration).

44:28: Balancing work and life. 

If you are seeking to learn about the most relevant themes for the profession today, you want to listen to this.

My Website: maverickactuary.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to episode one oh four of the Live with
the Maverick podcast. The theme for today's discussion is Actuaries
in Leadership, Part nine, and we are very excited to
have with those our guests or returning guest, I should say,
Dave Dylan. Dave is senior vice president and principal at
Lewis and Ellis. He is the President elect of the

(00:23):
Society of Actuaries. Welcome back, Dave Dominic.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you very much. I'm honored to be a repeat guest.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
So enjoyed the first conversation and looking forward to this
one as well.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Looking forward to it as well. And we have we
only have a few, so you're in that exclusive club,
and you know it's my pleasure. Thank god.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
I won't to ask you who you put first as
the repeat, but I'll take it as an honor that
I am a.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Repeat so excellent, excellent, So I just love to give
you an opportunity to introduce yourself, Dave.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yeah, So, as you said, I've been at Lewis and
Ellis for twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
I am a health actuary.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
I started at a Blue Cross and you know one
reason I like working at Lewis and ellis is.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I do a lot of different things. I'm not a specialist.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'm a generalist, and I think that's kind of what
ultimately led me to a lot of the volunteer roles
I did because I met a lot of different people
and a lot of different roles, a lot of different companies.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
And so I started volunteering at.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
This away in about two thousand and eight, and ever
since then, I've been a very active volunteer, primarily on
the health section side, but a lot of professional development
and content stuff. And then I also do some work
for the Academy of Actuaries as well, do some instructing
and things for some of their programs. But so yeah,
for about the last fifteen years, been really active volunteer.

(01:38):
And it's great to meet a lot of people, you know,
I think if I didn't do the volunteering, i'd probably
know about what the twenty actuaries I work with, not
the you know, twenty thousand people I've met over the
years in volunteering and people like you. So it's just
been a great experience.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
That's excellent. And before we get into the conversation I
mentioned earlier, like I alluded to a congratulations are in order.
You're recently elected as a president elect of the Society
of Actuary, So congratulations on that. Thank you. No, that's
a lot of hard work. Not your question on Hobbus

(02:14):
and what inspired you to run for president.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, so it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
You know, there was a lot of discussion about it, right,
it's a big decision to do that or not. But
I do kind of view the president position as kind
of the chief volunteer, and as I just kind of
alluded to, I'd love the volunteering role. I love the interaction,
and so a lot of it was wanting to continue
what I felt like I was helping with when I

(02:40):
was on the Sea Board a few years ago, things
like that. But I think a lot of it too,
was from when I was on the board. You know,
I was just a health actorer. I didn't know much
about the life side. I didn't know much about the
pension side. I didn't know about the operations at say,
how you know about the exam process that much other
than taking exams, right, And I learned a lot that
made me think, you know what, you know, I want

(03:03):
to help keep building this field.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
You know.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I learned that there were a lot of exam, the
number of exam takers was dropping off. I'm someone that
wanted to become an actuary since I was thirteen years old,
so I've been super passionate my whole life, and it
really kind of, you know, I was a little distraught
thinking that our profession was taking a little slight dip,
a little bit, you know, not as many people going
into it. So I really felt like, based on all

(03:29):
my years of volunteer experience, I could help, you know,
interact with the other volunteers and really kind of helped
build the you know, build the actuarial profession and get
it to where you know, everyone was as passionate to
become an actuary like I was.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Excellent. I'm not notes you mentioned you talked about the
diping in exam takers in our preliminary conversation, and I'm
just paraphrasing Curt me if I'm wrong. I think you
said it was fifty percent, and I know he said
it was done for a number of years, and it
seems like within the pie few years it's it's kind
of rolling to the corner and it's it's going back up.

(04:06):
So I guess, first of all, correct me if I
was wrung on a number, but just directionally speaking, it
when done. So my question is did the SUA do
any analysis on what the driving factors were for that
particular decrease?

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, I think that the biggest challenge SOA is facing
and other actual organizations as well, not just the SOA.
It's it's the rise of the data science degree. You know,
a lot of universities are offering data science very similar
skill set, right, and a lot of potential exam takers
are like, oh, there's a degree I can take and

(04:43):
I don't have to take eight to ten years of exams,
you know, which is somewhat enticing. So I do think
the rise of data science has been the biggest challenge
for that, and I think you know, the SOA's response
to that is to you know, they have the predict
They've added the predictive a aalytics exam, you know, different
certifications and things like that to help kind of bring

(05:05):
in some of those people that might lean that way
as well, but just show that actuaries, you know. I
think one of the things we said on less way
board when I was there is, you know, we're the
original data scientists.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
You know, we like to think we're the original ones,
but we've.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Always kind of done one kind of case study around it,
and we want to show that we can do you know,
other stuff than just the traditional stuff.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, I always when this, this comes up in so
many of our conversations on the podcast, and I certainly
see thus more of you know, potential to for areas
of overlap. I definitely think that there's areas where data
scientists are more unique, and you know, they're in terms
of like tuning models and developing you know, some of

(05:51):
the more technical aspects of models themselves, but certainly areas
of overlap as well. And I don't see it as
I know that there's certain people in the profession who
s he does be in adverse aial data design has
been adversarial tactuary old. But I really see as more
of us like a Venn diagram and perhaps a spectrum.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
So just yeah, I agree with that, maybe from the
standpoint of kind of once you're up in your career,
but I do kind of view it as a little
you know, like as someone coming into college, it's kind
of either or right, and so I you know, in
terms of what they study and and so it can
be a little bit of a challenge here, but I
completely agree with you. It is a it is a

(06:32):
very you know, interactive and should be in collaborative from
both sides.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah, no, what what So the number the exam takers,
I think I've turned the corner so that those numbers
are not going down anymore. I think they're starting to
go back.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
They're starting to level out. Yeah, they're they're starting to
come back around.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yes, Yeah, what was the what was the the catalyst?
I guess for that, if any if everybody didn't define anything.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, I think, you know, it's still a work in progress.
It's it's still a you know, evolving thing. But I
think there's a couple of things that are helping. Is
a couple of years ago that AWAY created the affiliate program,
And what the affiliate membership program is is trying to
reach more of the high school college kids and like
the instructors and teachers. It's like kind of like a

(07:18):
big group of interested parties, right and helping promote and
get information out there about the axwirl Field and I
may be slightly off on the number now, but I
think it's we've gotten about ten thousand affiliate members. It's
really grown in the last two years, and I think
that has helped a lot. I think another thing that
has helped with the exam takers is, you know, the

(07:40):
SOAY is an international organization, and the international side of
things has had, you know, has exponential growth versus let's
say the traditional US and Canadian exam taking base. So
I think kind of those two things have helped a lot.
And then I would say, moving forward, you know, this
is we're just at the very beginning of it, but

(08:02):
we're hopeful that the new kind of f s A
pathways redesigned will help as well, just because that's we've
we're adding some flexibility to the exam process. So I think,
you know, it's kind of been a step by step
thing of you know, reaching people a little bit earlier
and then once they kind of get in help it
be at a little more flexible.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
That's good to hear, and I just got back from
the CIS annual meeting and that's something that was that
a topic that came up as well. I imagine that
they're probably at different phases of development there, but the
is a common theme across the societies. I think. Also
the IFoA, I think has always been, you know, at
the head of the curve on that as well, because

(08:43):
they have a certain way of dealing with that. Then
we'll get into some of the details. But you know,
when you think of your term going forward, you're you're
serving all your term as president elect and eventually you'll
be the president for a year. What are you hoping
to can ultimately when you get to to be president
and what are you hoping to contribute doing your term?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, so it's hard.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
As I've been thinking through this, it's you know, as
an actuary, we think about ROI measuring against metrics and
things like that.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
And I think it'll be hard.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I think so much of the stuff s Away is
doing now and hopefully that I'll contribute with is so
long term. I don't know if I'm going to know
for a while if what we were doing was successful
or not. But I do think some of the I
think keeping track of the number of exam takers will
be one of the first first things we'll look at
it again, just making sure that we continually have people

(09:37):
in the pipeline. I think longer term, you know, I
think one of the things s Away wants to do
and I kind of alluded to this earlier is we
do want to be seen as not just in our
case base case, right, that we're great at.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
The insurance stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
We are working on a lot of things to try
to you know, put actuaries in places, you know, positions
of where they can work in other areas, right, And
I think once we get to that point, and again
that could be a very long term, but I think
that will will help show that there has been success

(10:13):
with the SaaS doing with the strategic plan and things
like that, just informing people, you know. I think another
thing that is, you know we're starting with, of course,
is like AI stuff, we're starting to you know, put
a lot more information out there for actuaries, and you know,
we're not going to know how successful we are with
that for for some time.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Thanks excellent.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
No.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
I touched briefly on what you want to accomplish when
you become president. But in today's world, this year, you're
you're the you know, you just break down your term
as president elect. So let's think it a bit deeper
on the say president elect position. Within the scope of
president elect, what are you key responsibilities?

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, so the president elect position is a board position.
There's eighteen board members of SAY. There's fifteen elected board
members and there are three presidential officers president elect, president,
and past president. And so as president elect, you come
in and as one of the eighteen board members, and
you serve on the Executive Committee, which is a subset

(11:19):
of the board. It's six it's six board members. And
so that's kind of, you know, the thing to help
get you your feet wet a little bit from an
operational standpoint.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
You know, I've been off the board a couple of years.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
It's an opportunity for me to get in on the
Executive Committee and you know, kind of here of updates
on the maybe the issues that I talked about a few.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Years ago, but there's some new issues. So it's kind of.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
A you know, a training ground, so to speak. And
so I'm part of the Executive Committee. And then one
of the other kind of main roles that president elect
has is kind of the board liaison to the say's
sections or we're moving towards the phrase committee or you
know that and so the community. Sorry, So it's kind

(12:03):
of and as I said earlier, I was a health
Section volunteer, so I'm very excited to be a liaison
to the sections and all the volunteers there because that
was kind of my role. That's what got me so
excited about being an actuary. So I kind of helped
make sure that all the communities have what they need.
You know, they help I mean, they drive the professional

(12:25):
development for their kind of subgroup members and generating stuff
that's good for them. And so it's a great role
to really make sure that kind of those volunteers get
what they need and are producing you know, the content
they need for all their actuaries.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
That's helpful. And one more thing that you mentioned when
we spoke previously, you talked about being an ambassador in
the president intellectoral and you talk so you mentioned at
the beginning of the call going to the Chinese Actual
Association meeting and then also the CARBI an Actual Association meeting.
I think at the end of the year. What does
that ambassador into So when you're attending these meetings on

(13:02):
behalf of the SA other than you know the typical
networking shaking huns, you know, are you doing presentations panels?
What does that entail?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, so I'm probably you know, on the learning end
of that. As we're recording, I'm leaving, as you kind
of said, I'm leaving within twenty four hours to go
on to China to attend one of the conferences there.
But I do know it's kind of a mix of things, right.
I think for this specific trip I'm going to now,
it is a little more of the China Association having

(13:32):
an anniversary meeting. They wanted you know, honored guests other
actuarial organizations, and I think that role is going to
be a little bit different than some of the other
trips I ultimately go on. But like for example, we're
planning I do have a few remarks, you know, as
a representative of the Society of Actuaries, I will be
presenting to that conference for a few minutes, but we

(13:55):
will also take that opportunity. The SOA is obviously very
heavily involved in in China. I think the number is
about forty percent of our exam takers are from there,
and so that is a big investment for the SOA.
We will be meeting with professors of the universities over there,
we will be meeting with the large employers of.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Actuaries while we're over there.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
So it's kind of those these international trips tend to be,
you know, a mix of different things. You know, it's
it's a lot of you know, building relationships with the
other actual organizations giving those organizations and they're the exam
takers in their country what they need for education and research,
which you know is obviously the SOA's bread and butter.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Is there anything you're looking forward to us? Had quite
a big trip from Texas.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, I got to be honest with you, it's probably
a mix of anxiety and excitement. As I've been joking.
You know, I'm just a little old route from Oklahoma.
Who hasn't you know, traveled internationally a whole lot. So
but I am excited, you know, I am looking forward
to these experiences. Yeah, I've never been to Asia, never

(15:05):
been to China.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
You know.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Again, hell, I can hardly say that the English language sometimes,
you know, let alone trying to communicate in other languages.
But I think that is kind of the fun part,
right is getting to know actuaries from other places. You know,
I feel like I've done a pretty good job interacting
and communicating with the actuaries here in the US and Canada.
So now I'm looking forward to the opportunity to kind

(15:30):
of expand that.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
As someone who's done that more so virtually than in person,
but doing that through this podcast and internew people in
seventeen countries definitely can say that that's a very enjoyable thing.
And I imagine just having so many people in the
same place would be great too. So looking forward to
hearing more about that trip. No, we talked earlier a
bit about or you mentioned the sections and the committees.

(15:55):
You talked about the when you mentioned the board liaison position,
So let's dig a bit deeper.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
No.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
One, sections and committees, And I know you said that
sections I think are going to communities, so keep me
honest on the language there. But you know, I think
this is a great opportunity to talk about professional development.
So at the high level, how were the sections and
the community use organized?

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, so it's interesting I think what happened.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
So sections have always been the core, kind of the core,
like next layer down in terms of volunteering, you know,
and it's it is very topical, right, And some of
them evolved differently, and they were obviously topical. So I
was a member of the Health section because I'm a
health actuary. The Health section evolved differently than some of

(16:43):
the others we on the health side had been kind
of stayed as let's say, a bigger group. There was
one kind of i'll say area of interest. Long term
care kind of came originally came out of the health section,
and then they were so focused on long term care
they kind of wanted to break off and to focus
on their own professional development, uh, focus on their members

(17:04):
things like that. And the life side evolved differently where
there were a lot of little people, little groups, little
sections where people really got ultra focused. And I'm not
going to be able to list off all the life
sections because not a life actuary. But they broke down
and while they did a lot of good work, we
did determine that some of them kind of almost got

(17:27):
too small to specialize and there wasn't as much interaction
with broader groups. There wasn't a whole lot of interaction
between members. And so basically we're just kind of building
them back up a little bit into I think there's
going to be eight communities now. So I mentioned the
long term care section, they will be part of the
health section now again they will help, you know, provide

(17:50):
leadership for that community, and so it'll be just kind
of again, I think what's interesting, We're going to kind
of build them back up, but then also have a
lot of like subgroups so the communities can interact with
a little more people that do similar stuff.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think what's happened was, again the resources.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Kind of got strung out, and now we're kind of
just refocusing and moving forward with the eight communities. And
they solely started with a pilot program, say about three
years ago, and it really worked. I forget which two
sections did it, but it's really worked, and because it worked,
that's why we're moving forward with communities for all of

(18:29):
those sections.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
So, for instance, let's take the I know you mentioned
you said that there are several and we don't have
time to go through all of them in detail. But
let's say, for instance, a health section. If I'm an
actuary who wants to get involved in the say health section,
what there are some examples of current initiatives that they
may be focused on? What you know that? I mean
you want to know them?

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah, i'd say, you know, again, the main kind of
goal of the communities are i'd say professional development for
everyone else that is interested in that topic. So the
Health Section Council has been heavily involved in getting out
you know webinars. I'm involved with the Health Section podcast

(19:12):
right so I'm one of the co hosts for the
Health Sections podcast series where we you know, have a
wide range of topical authors and speakers on different things
and and it's and it's producing the newsletters and things.
So it's really focused on professional development. So there are
a lot of opportunities for volunteers, uh, you know, writing articles,

(19:37):
you know, helping with the podcast, helping with the webcasts,
things like that. And then related to that, of course,
is the communities are also heavily involved with the research.
So the SOOA has kind of you know, the broader
SOOA Research Institute, which does phenomenal work. Dale Halls Group
puts out fantastic stuff, but the sections may also highlight

(19:59):
because it's topic, say, let's spend some money on certain
topics that our members want to know more about, and
so the communities will help with that as well.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Excellent something that I phoned interesting and preparing for the interview,
actually went on the website and you know, took a
look at what the sections were and something that stood
out to me. A few things stood out to me.
The first thing was that you don't have to be
and curt me if I'm wrong, you don't have to
be an actuary to actually join, which I think is
really nice and in the spirit of what I'm trying

(20:33):
to do is help open up the profession to other
groups who not only who we are currently interacting with,
but those who we could potentially partner with in the future.
So I think that's a very neat idea to open
up the sections that people who are not only actuaries
but a few other things. Is a volume of content
that I saw, and I'm actually reading this off just
literally Verbatim's like more than four sorry, more than forty webcasts,

(20:56):
more than three hundred meeting sessions, more than fifty podcasts
seminars on boot com. So it sounds like a lot
of content.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
It is a lot of content, and I'll be hones.
Like so I mentioned the podcast, I love producing that content.
It looks like I might be taking a slight step
back from doing those now, just with my new role,
but I love doing that and you know we I
do think those councils have done a great job of
producing content for their members, and as you said, we

(21:24):
have historically called them kind of like friends of the Council,
So people can you know, listen in and you know,
you know, like the webcast and podcasts and things. You know,
it's some of its introductory stuff to help get people interested.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
In maybe a new area.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
But other stuff is you know, for the moderate and
more expert to help them reinforce and make sure they
know what's going on in a certain area.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
One one more of a big picture question I have
on that because I mean I kinraies as a question
as a content creator, is that how do how do
they feel about That's the way I feel about engagement
broadly speaking, when it's the engagement people watching the podcast
and watching the webinars and reading the research papers. And
the reason I ask is because I genuinely believe that

(22:08):
there is not just for this week, but just broadly
speaking for the professional room for improvement in terms of
engagement and getting content to people and you know, leveraging socials.
So just curious to know how they feel about engagement.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
A very high yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
I mean the SOA has a marketing communications team that
is phenomenal in helping promote everything that is done at
the bigger kind of soa umbrella level and at the sections,
and I think what amazes me is, you know, I
really only today have gotten some metrics on like the
podcasts that I help with, and while I don't remember

(22:44):
the exact number, it was way bigger than I would
have thought for a little old hill section, you know
podcast that I felt was maybe a little niche right
for just a little small subset, But it is obviously
reaching other people because it just was amazing to me.
So I do think that the SOA understands that what

(23:05):
we can do is not just for traditional members, that
we can you know, use our expertise and research in
our research and education to reach others.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Excellent. No, another question on engagement is we talked a
bit about international though. How do you feel or how
does the SWAY feel about the level of engagement from
the international community. Is that consistent with what you're seeing
in North America or would you say it's a ton
of room for improvement.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah, I think historically the international members haven't been as active,
haven't been as engaged with others, and that's definitely a
focus of the SA to help kind of improve that.
I think, you know, obviously just geographically it's you.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Know, so far away.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
It's a little harder, you know, in terms of because
obviously this a way puts on a lot of great
in person meetings too to help engage and educate, and
that can be a challenge. So there, you know, that's
a Way has specific international committees and more targeted committees
for certain regions and it's amazing what they've been doing

(24:13):
and growing that.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
But that is definitely at an earlier stage.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Uh then maybe more the traditional locations.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Okay, well that seems like an exciting challenge. I know
for sure. I've seen the CIS paying more attention to
international as well, so I think that's I think that's
a good thing for the professional broadly.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Oh absolutely, yeah. No.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Another thing I noticed being a content creator is is
that you've made a conservative effort to post more on LinkedIn,
And personally, I think you're doing a great job, you know,
shutting a lot to the profession.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Coming from you, that means a lot. So thank you
very much.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, because you know, I honestly, I know I know
what it takes. I know the commitment and we talked
about this in the pre medi the discipline, just the
you know, just the work it takes to put use
content in any form, and you know, so what what
topics do you typically post about, like as you're doing
your personal content.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
You know, So it's kind of a mix of things.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
So from a work standpoint, I do a lot around
healthcare reform, Affordable Care Act, that kind of stuff. So
I like to you know, I think a lot of
my audience on LinkedIn knows that's kind of one of
my area of expertise. So I like to educate people
and ask questions about that, right, because that's kind of

(25:31):
what I've been working on the last fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
But then kind of on the other.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Side, I like to talk a lot about stuff I
don't know. I may not be as self aware as
I think I am, but I always like to say
I know what I don't know. And so I like
to bring up conversations about stuff I don't know as
much because I want to hear from other people. So
AI is kind of one of those things that's right,
you know, that's obviously something a lot of people are

(25:56):
talking about, and some people are maybe a little further
along on the learning curve than I am, and so
I want to engage those people and get the conversation started.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So I can learn.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
So when I communicate on LinkedIn, it is a mix
of me kind of putting forth my knowledge base for
certain areas, but it's also to help get me my
knowledge base a little you know, a little higher floor
on those topics.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
So sounds like a lot of it is education, like
you said, starting conversations absolutely well, building a knowledge base.
And something it reminded me of something. I always encourage
people to comment and to throw questions out. Certainly I would,
I would just broadly. I don't mean to hijick a conversation,
but just because I'm a bit familiar with this topic

(26:42):
real quickly. Is always good to share your thoughts, even
if you're not necessarily deep on something, just to share
some thoughts on a topic before and then you know
if if you're soliciting the information or soliciting comments from people.
But I remember one of the episodes I did actual
or maybe one or two, actually, probably two episodes I have
done on my series have come from LinkedIn comments where

(27:03):
I talked about a particular area, when I talked about
sports analytics and talk about pandemic response. And then it
turns out that there are people who are doing that
who I wasn't aware, I wasn't familiar with or I
was less familiar with at the time, and then we
took the conversation from the comments into the d ms
and then they turned into episodes. So it's amazing, not
just the education, but some of the connections that you

(27:25):
can make.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
And yeah, I don't think i've done a podcast yet
based on a LinkedIn comment you've set You've set a
goal out there. Now I'm gonna pay a little more
attention to see which ones I can flip into that
that that podcast conversation exactly.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
You'd you'd be surprised. I mean, of course, the more
engaging it is the post is, the more likely it is.
So there's definitely it's I think it's a good challenge,
you know, definitely to keep the content engaging. So that yeah,
that's just something that that I noticed. Now, anything else,
like in terms of you talked about education and networking,

(27:59):
is or anything else that you're seeking to accomplish from
the post that you're.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Doing, well, you know, I always viewed it, So I've
been active for gosh, I don't know how long long time, right,
you know.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I think I think I did it a lot.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Again to help build those networks and again and form earlier.
So you know, I also come from kind of an
educator background. My mother was an English teacher for forty years.
My dad was an insurance agent who ultimately, at the
end of his career taught and trained other agents. I've
always kind of had that educational flare as well. I
teach a class at Georgia State University now in their

(28:34):
actual program. I love that side. So I think that's
kind of what also helped generate that. So you know,
it is amazing. So you just it is a platform
that you know, ten years ago, we didn't know we
would have to help reach out to other people. And
as I think I said at the beginning of our conversation,
if if I didn't do these things, i'd probably know

(28:55):
the twenty people I work with and not the twenty
thousand that I've met via LinkedIn.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's a great opportunity. No,
the shifting gears is something sure that I find interesting.
We recently we had in the US of course recently
had a national election, and of course, you know my
just a disclaimer, I'm sure for you for s a

(29:25):
way for me certainly my community. I welcome viewpoints from
from all angles and from all parts of the political spectrum.
So certainly not the political question in nature, there's reading
more of straight up business question. Now home might so
we've had a we had an election, and we're going
to have a change in administrations in a couple of months.
So how might actually is be impacted by a change

(29:46):
in administration?

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, so it's interesting. I'll back up with a little
bit of context. So a lot of my kind of
day to day work is with like state insurance departments
on healthcare reform and things like that. And as people
ask me about my career and you know, things, maybe
that surprised me. And I've always said that I never
knew as I was growing as an actuary that I'd

(30:08):
have to learn at least a little bit of politics
and dealing with politics.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
So I do a lot of work for you know,
I'm going to stereotype a little bit Northeastern blue states
and southern red states. I work with both, and you know,
as actuaries were supposed to have objective analysis, and so
I always joke that, you know, if I've torqued off
both sides, that means I'm probably doing something right.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
And so I feel like I have done a pretty
good job of that.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
But it is interesting is when when you know, elections change,
it does create differences in those Northeast states, in those
red states, and sometimes.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
They move out, they move in.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
So I think that the you know, and we've had
you know, let's say how many years, sixteen years, whatever,
the administration's flipping and flopping and changing, right and so
and again, i'm health actuary, so health stuff does tend
to be a little more political, right than life insurance
or property and casualty insurance, And so it does give

(31:12):
the opportunity of things changing. So what could change?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
And again I think this is a for someone that
follows the health side. This is a pretty.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Obvious one that I'm keeping an eye out and with
other people should. Is the Affordable Care Act at premium
subsidies for people to help lower income people. And when
the pandemic hit, those subsidies were extended and through twenty
twenty five, So we have one more year of extended

(31:43):
subsidies and they're on hold right now, there's no extension
of the extension.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
So I think it'll be very.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Interesting to see about what would happen with these premium subsidies.
Now that we have a new administration, are they going
to try to use a different approach. Are they going
to you know, double down on the approach there from
the previous administration. Maybe not, They may try to do
something else. So I think that's kind of like the
most obvious and direct one. I think some other indirect

(32:13):
ones that people may not think about them as much though,
is there are several health insurance products that are I
don't know if they're dependent on major medical or the ACA,
but they're kind of they're very tangential, so short what
we call short term health insurance and hospital indemnity insurance.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
So what has happened over the years.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
With changes in administrations, Generally speaking, the Democratic administrations implement
some rules on hospital indemnity and short term products to
maybe mitigate their impact a little bit because they want
to bolster the ACA because that's been the Democratic approach.
So when the Republicans come in, generally they go the

(32:55):
other way, right, they reinforce some of the ideas of
the hospital and in short term because it's a little
different options, it's more flexible and so forth. So I
think it'll be interesting to see what happens with not
just the ACA, which is obviously what gets the big
press in the US around those things, but it will

(33:15):
impact likely impact other products as well.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
No, of course you mentioned that there's obviously different perspectives
on how to deal with things, on what the administrations
will prioritize. But are there any common I mean, healthcare
is quite complicated, and of course more so in the
United States than other places. But are there any areas
of agreement between the parties on like what are the

(33:40):
major drivers of health care costs are that could be
reduced that are not necessarily political in nature, but just
more neutral and just more obvious.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, So, I mean everyone understands the main challenge of Yeah,
I guess what way I would say it is they
all understand the main challenge, which is kind of the
the healthcare cost trend, you know, which is a combination
of utilization, people doing different services that may be more costly,

(34:11):
and then the inflationary piece. I think where it comes
down to is how to address that problem? Right, So,
you know, in the US, picking a round number, healthcare
cost trend is about six percent a year roughly.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Sometimes it's higher, sometimes.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
It's lower, but typical inflation is three percent right without
you know, not accounting for a few blips. So you know,
healthcare costs grow at you know, let's call it double.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
But how the two sides decide to attack that problem
has been different.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
So you know, one side might lean towards flexibility, give
people options, you know, other sides might be, well, we
need to kind of help purchase products things like that,
get more people into programs, things like that to help
mitigat anti selection.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
So there's a.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Lot of a lot of I think there is a
commonality on what the issue is, but how to solve it,
obviously is is different.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
So we talked a bit about some of the legislative changes.
How does that then flow through to Well, I guess
two quests too, Like at two parts, maybe it's like
one is like, how does that legislative piece float onto
like what actuaries have to do? Presumably maybe pricing if
I had to guess, yeah, as not being a health
insurance expert, and you know, the second piece is from

(35:33):
a product perspective, Are there any changes that would kind
of flow through to like the private market? I think
you might have hinted that out, but just to clarify.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, So to the actual eyes things, I'll give you
an example from a few years ago that they are interesting.
So when President Trump came in the first time, he
was very vocal, you know, about the Affordable Care Act
and things, and I don't want to go too far
into the weeds in this. This is a very kind
of inside baseball issue for health actuaries. But there was

(36:02):
a provision in the Affordable Care Act that he defunded,
all right, and he thought it would have a certain action.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
But what happened was the states kind of.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Did kind of did something else to counteract that, all right,
And it's what we call silver loading and the health
So what happened though, to your question, is the actuaries
had to get involved in figuring out what to do
on this thing was defunded. Now we're doing it a

(36:33):
different way. And that silver loading impacted the premiums for everybody,
and so everything had to be repriced. Every state, they
all had to be repriced. Now there's some discussions currently
ongoing on how the states are doing that. There is
some diversity and thought and how to utilize that, but

(36:54):
every state has their actuaries doing that. So one decision
by President Trump at the time to defund that one
provision directly impacted the work of ACA pricing actuaries and
developing all the plans for the consumers.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Uh. And what was the other part you were talking
more about the more privatized. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
So I think what's interesting is, and a lot of
people don't know this, but the the Affordable Care Act
in Obamacare, however you want to call it, is really
only about ten percent of the US market. It gets
all the oxygen though, right, it gets all of the
media attention. So while there could be a lot of

(37:39):
changes to the ACA, a lot of the other markets
aren't impacted. So that is something to consider. So I
think like when people think, oh, all this is going
on with the ACA, Yes, it's very important. It hits
a very important target market, but ninety percent of the
US is actually under different programs, So while it may

(38:00):
have some some impact, it doesn't impact some of those
other markets as much. Now, some of it bleeds over
into the you know, the large group or small group
markets or Medicaid you know, Medicaid expansion was obviously a
big discussion of the ACA.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
So there are some overlaps.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
But I think you know, hyper specifically, I do think
of what I would call like supplemental health products that
might be a little dependent on the ACA, like I
mentioned the hospital indemnity and short term those I think
will be impacted more than anything else.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Okay, that's good to know. No, something I'm something you know,
I think is very obvious. I respect you. But something
I appreciate about you as a professional is your forward
looking mindset. And I know that there's a lot of
experience actuaries where they may not necessarily be as forward
looking in terms of how do you think of things?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Now?

Speaker 1 (38:53):
How would do you? And we might have talked about
this briefly in our last episode, I know we talked,
but it was I think it was more specific through
the lens of healthcare. I think you can talked a
bit about AI and some of those things. But how
you describe your vision like, more broadly speaking, unncessarily limited
to hell than and again not necessarily limited to your
rule in sus you as Dave as an actuary, how
you describe your vision, but the actuary of profession, like

(39:15):
when as you look forward and in terms of what
you think yeah or may not happen, it.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
May be a little.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
I think this is very idealistic, but I think sometimes
ideals are very helpful.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Right is.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
I do think what I want to see is actuaries
historically have been I am sitting on my computer crunching
numbers by myself.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
And I want that.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Maybe again, this is maybe idealistic and a little bit
of a Kumba yah thing, but I want us.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
All working together.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
And as I was saying earlier, I have figured out
what I don't know, and I need to interact with
others to help me with what I don't know, and
I want other people to do the same thing. So
I would love to just have a big interaction of
actuaries helping each other out.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's what you know.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
I'm visioned the SOA communities, you know, helping individual actuaries
that may not have much exposure to other actuaries to
get that opportunity. And as you and I've discussed over
the last few minutes, is the international piece of that.
I think a lot of us not only do we
just stay in our cubicle, we obviously stay in our
country generally, and I think it is helpful to learn

(40:23):
different things from different cultures and different people because they
do things differently, and just because I've been doing it
for fifty two years doesn't mean it's the right way, right.
So I just think that collaborative, interactive approach among actuaries
is what I would love to see.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, but specifically know if we
take a step back on the industries. So what I
heard a couple of things industries and then geographies as well.
So when it comes to industries, what are some of
the industries you think that that we could work with
more or learn from? Are both?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (41:00):
So I insurance is a financial services field, right, That's
all it is. And as we were kind of alluding
to earlier, I think people and other financial services call
it banking, call it, you know, more traditional Wall Street.
I think they've just kind of seen actuaries in that
one are one aspect of financial services. We're expert modelers.

(41:22):
I think we can go into any of those financial
services fields. I actually was talking to a client of
mine the other day, and while I had never done
a project like this, I'm looking forward to possibly assisting.
It was on like HOA homeowners agreements because there's risk
and how they do those agreements and things like that.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
So, you know, I think there's very similar fields.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Like that, you know that, And maybe I can't think
of all of them, but I've never been asked to
do anything with an HOA before, and I know other
actuaries probably have opportunities and other things.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
So I think, just generally speaking, if we can start
getting into.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
That other financial services area and just you know, help
educate and provide research in those areas, we can do
this too, and I think we'll just be better forward
as actuaries.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Great. Yeah, And as you know, that's the Maverick munch
Or is looking at across industries, looking at at least
broadly at risk. No, just by kind of going back
to the geography piece too, you're going to China. Of course,
Asia I think is of course a very appears to
be a very important region. I know for a fact
for CIS is certainly looking at it like any other

(42:36):
regions in particular that you think, you know, would be
strategic for the profession at this point, or you say
it is this kind of equal.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, I'd say that the Middle East has really grown
a lot in terms of developing the kind of their
actuarial practice and their needs. I've developed a relationship. I
don't know if you have talked to Ashwag Alzarani.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yet.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
If not, I think you need to talk to her.
I would highly recommend a podcast with her. She is
the first female fsa UH in Saudi Arabia and she's
just kind of she's kind of that test case of that,
you know, indicative of that growing market Saudi Arabia. I
think it's called Vision twenty thirty that where they are

(43:21):
requiring more like Saudi Arabia actuaries to be involved more,
you know, in country actuary.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
So I know the Middle East.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Actually, some of my colleagues at this away while I'm
traveling to China, they are traveling to Riyad because of
that expansion and excitement for for the actuary old Field.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
So Dave you mean you me or may not know that.
I actually did an episode recently on Saudi Arabia. It
was like, well it was not it was not just
Saudi Arabia, but other countries in the Middle East as well,
called actuaries in the Middle East. That's episode ninety five
with Hashia and Pipperty's An Fie is an episode.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I have to go check that out.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, I recommend you, and you know, anyone else listening
to check out that episode that was a really good one.
Something I have to ask, is I meant to ask
this earlier? I asked, because I guess I'm navigating something similar,
well obviously as someone who does content and also has
a day job and has to manage things. And I
just got a new puppy, and I'm just sure. I

(44:21):
just can't imagine, Like, I don't know how people honestly
have two three kids, and I know I think you
have a few. I know, I honestly don't know how
you do it. But but in terms of you know,
balancing like both your regular job at Louis and Ellis
and then know, ticking on the president, it's a challenge.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah, it's funny you say that a few years ago
and this, Yeah, it was even before what's going on now.
I was in an elevator at a meeting and this
guy got on and did not know who this actual
he was, And I apologize, I don't remember his name,
but what he said to me is, oh, you're Dave Dylan.
He's My first question to you is how the heck
do you do everything that you do? And my answer

(45:01):
to him was I really don't know. Uh, you know,
and maybe the next quip would be, I don't sleep
whole lot, so when when I don't sleep, I'll create
some content.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
But I will say it is a challenge, and it
is maybe compartmentalizing things, really scheduling things out.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
You know, as I said earlier, I teach a class
at Georgia State. I do volunteering for this way, I
do volunteer for the academy.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
But I think with my new role, you know, you
do have to learn to say no, and that may
be one of my worst qualities. So I am trying
to actively trying to figure that out. You know, like
when I get requests for webinars podcast now this one,
obviously I would never turn you down because I love
being a yeah. Uh but but it is a challenge.

(45:47):
I think it's just managing priorities. I think what has
helped me the most is is really making you know,
scheduling things out and sticking to that schedule.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
And that's something that that that I think is a
big thing I've learned in the past definitely the past year.
I think when I got started all the necessity certainly
I said yes to everything because I was trying to
grow and develop my brand. And yeah, once I got
to a point where it was more or less. I mean,
it's always growing and developing, but you get to a
point of, if you want to critical master use a term,
it becomes us untenable to say yes to everything. And yeah,

(46:21):
there's one thing in particular I want to start saying
yes to again, and I think maybe the less new
episodes I do, I'll be able to. It's like me
getting interview, Like I've had to say no to a
few of those, just just for capacity reasons because there's
so many things I'm balancing. But I think, you know, yeah,
Sam up with that.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, it's a change. You know.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
The analogy I've used before is, you know, you build
a swimming pool. You want to keep adding water and
water and water and water to be able to swim
in it right and enjoy it. But if you put
in too much water, you're gonna drown, right, So you
got you gotta be careful, you know how much water
you add to that pool.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yes, yeah, I think that's an important point. I mean,
I think the principle, even for people who are not
doing multiple things, even just within your job. You always
think of what needs the most attention and and you
know it's important to know it. So I think that
that that can evolve as well, like your focus. Your
focus can of evolve. There are times where you may
have to put more time into career. And I mean

(47:19):
your family, of course. I mean I don't want to
speak to anybody's values, but presumably if you have a family,
they're important.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I actually, as I decided to, you know, throw my
head in for this position.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
You know, I had I have one, I have three daughters,
one still at home.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
And I basically sat her down and said, hey, I've
always taken pride in being a dad that's here for stuff.
You know, even though I was a consultant, I didn't
travel as much, I didn't miss a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
And I'm like, I might start missing a couple of things.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
And she was like, I get it, you know, and
so yeah, it can be hard to balance that that
family stuff on top of all this other stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, well, Dave, there's been a great conversation, as I
knew it would be. And you just want to thank
you for your time and for your contributions and looking
forward to to share this with the community and wishing
you the best one not just your trip to China,
but the flight itself, and the flight is going to thank.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
You well Dominica again, and I'm going to take this
opportunity say thanks again for all you do. You do
a phenomenal job promoting the actuarial profession. And you and
I are on kind of different sides of the actuarial profession,
but I you know, I think it's great because you
do cross pollinate and you bring everyone together.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
So thank you for all you do there.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It's my pleasure and you know, deeply humble and you're welcome.
And let's just let's definitely keep in touch. Looking forward
to hearing about the chirp sounds good, all right, have
a good one day. Thank you, thank you, bye bye,