Episode 97: Content Marketing

My guest for Episode 97 is Lewis Kemp, CEO at Lightbulb Media.

The theme for the episode is 𝗖𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝗸𝗲𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴.

Lewis and I explore the following topics:⁣

✅ Content marketing and its relevance in the modern era
✅ Content creation and its importance for professionals 
✅ The three stages of the conversion funnel
✅ How individuals can apply the conversion funnel to their own careers
✅ How individuals can find their target audience
✅ Developing success criteria around content creation
✅ Keys to cultivating a relationship with a target audience 
✅ Keys to finding your authentic voice when creating content
✅ Fundamentals for individuals getting started with content 
✅ Overcoming nerves and limiting beliefs around content creation

If you are curious about creating content and not sure where to start, you want to listen to this.

My Website: maverickactuary.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to episode ninety seven of Live with the Maverick.

(00:04):
My name is Dominic Lee, founder of Maverick Actuary. We
are a content community. Our mission is to maximize the
impact and value of quand professionals on a global scale.
The goal of this series is to educate our community
on the most relevant themes in actuarial science, risk management
and analytics. The theme of today's discussion is content marketing

(00:28):
and we are very excited to have with us our
guest for today's episode, Lewis Kemp. Lewis is CEO at
light Bulb Media.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome Lewis, thanks for having me may looking forward to us.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
And for those of you who follow me on LinkedIn,
I recently went to the UK and me and Lewis
had the chance to connect in person in his office
in Manchester. So that was a lot of fun. And
I can tell everyone just before we can start episode two,
just one of the most interesting and insightful posters on LinkedIn.
You'll always be informed and entertained at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thanks mate, lovely introll.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, and I'd just love to give you an opportunity
to introduce yourself and tell us anything pertin into your background.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, definitely. The light Bul's been going for six years now.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
We basically help brand scale online through social media, content marketing,
and paid advertising. I started it because I was rubbish
at sales. So what the people who are bad at
sales do? They go into marketing where you get a
lot less rejection and then Yeah, I recently co founded
an online marketing education entertainment platform called the University of

(01:38):
Creative Idiots, which teaches people all about how to keep
up with marketing trends in the modern age, rather than
go and spend three years going to university to get
something that's already out of date by the time you
finished the first module.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
So yeah, that's me. That's how I spend my days.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
One of the reasons I'm smiling is because you and
your you and your your business partner recently released a video.
So I recommend everyone to go and watch that and
your LinkedIn. It was really funny to plug the plug.
What's the name of the universe? The program, the University
of Creative Idiots. Okay, great, yeah, check that out. No, yeah,

(02:19):
so you talked a bit about your backgrown a light
bulb media. One of the things you talk about regularly
on your LinkedIn post. Is is your past career experience
not just still current, but your past career experience is?
So how would you describe your career trajectory if you
take a step back, and how you got into marketing
because I know, like you said, you didn't start in marketing,
you had a few experiences before.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
Yeah, for me, it was kind of like traditional early
early career. And what I mean by that is, you know,
you try and do hospitality first and foremost, and I
didn't last long in hospitality. I lasted one hour in
hospitality before walking out. That is, you know, props to
everyone that anyone that can that can stain that, because
I cannot stand people.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
People are so rude.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
So I did that, and then I went into door
to door sales, which is the next kind of writer
passage for young people who don't really know what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
And that was fun.

Speaker 4 (03:10):
Let's just say, getting told to f off ninety nine
times a day walking around in the rain asking people
to switch their energy or give to charity or whatever
it was. To be honest, I shouldn't slay it so much,
because genuinely I do believe everyone should do that. Because rejection,
you know you're gonna get it in life. Quite a
lot of the world's not a nice place, and I

(03:31):
think if I didn't go through that, as uncomfortable as
it was, it wouldn't have served me in good stead
coming into you know, coming into rooms and having negotiations
with people and things like that, because if you're just
constantly you know, your actions are based on the fear
of rejection, you're probably not going to be taking the
right steps and decisions for you or your business. You're
just trying to avoid that conflict, which is never good.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
The reason I'm laughing, by the way everyone was smiling,
I'm trying to keep it together because every time you
mentioned these EXPERI in. I remember some of the LinkedIn
posts you did, which are always really colorful, lots of
humor and wit. Where the one with the door, today's
sales job. I'm not undermining your experience. I remember you
talked about getting sacked for not having Was it a

(04:15):
can do spirit?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Ord?

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, it was. It was a winner's mentality.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
They said I didn't have because we were going around
and we were doing energy switching, and I said, oh,
there must be a database of people whose contracts are
coming up to an end, so obviously they're going to
be the most personal people to speak to because they're
at that period where they can switch, Oh no, no, no,
that's not sensible.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Why would we do that.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Why don't we just throw shit at the wall and
see what sticks? And then yeah, they said, no, no,
it's not a winner's mentality. But I was like, it's
a logical mentality. And I've always been a very logical person,
and some people I've realized, well many people now I've
realized I'm not logical people, and I don't understand it
because you know, emotions can skew decisions and viewpoints and

(04:59):
things like that. So I tend to just always go
with with the hard data and it's well so far.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
Now, the theme of today's episode is is content marketing.
And you know, those of you who listen to the
podcast regularly, you know a lot of the times we
talk about very specific things within the quantitative professional space.
So someone you may be wondering, Okay, why why is
this relevant because there's a much broader theme. I think
it's in all fairness applicable to not only quantitative professionals,

(05:27):
but I think there's a huge opportunity with quantitative professionals,
in particular because a lot of people in different industries.
Content has become more mainstream, and I think there's a
lot of potential in the quantitative professional space because traditionally,
folks in that space haven't been, in my opinion, my
humble opinion, the most natural like.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Storytellers, folks who are folks who tend to be a.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Bit more logical in my home again, in my opinion,
tend to struggle with finding their authentic voice telling compelling stories.
And I think that there's a lot of potential in
the content marketing and content creation space. So let's start
with let's take a step back to set the tone
for the conversation. What does content marketing mean to you?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
For me?

Speaker 4 (06:10):
I think, you know, the main difference between sales and
marketing is you convincing someone else that they need something,
whereas marketing is you provide information or content in a
way where they convince themselves that they need it. And
depending on what you sell, that can be a journey
of one day or it could be a journey of
one hundred days. So for me, it's a culmination of
content that gradually causes, you know, your target market, your

(06:33):
target buyer to convince themselves that you are the only
choice for this and that they need your products or service.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, And what I like about the idea of content
marketing is, I know, ultimately, when you think of any marketing,
it leads to the most natural thing you think of
is sales. But I think what's nice about it is
that I like the term conversion because sales, of course
like the most common.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
And relatable metrics.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
But I think the content world has opened up you know,
other goals as well, other forms of conversion, and we'll
talk about those a little bit later. Well, a closely
related concept to content marketing. When I think of content marketing,
and certainly think of creation, publishing, the distribution, a lot
of different elements, but specifically content creation. So why is

(07:18):
it important for professionals to create content today, regardless of industry?

Speaker 4 (07:23):
I think ultimately you've got to be very switched on
to what's happening with the generational shift. You know, with
a lot of industries, it used to be, you know,
a handshake or a person you met on the golf course,
and everything was kind of done offline in little rooms
here and there. But actually, now you know, everyone's got
the whole Internet at their fingertips. People consume on social
it doesn't matter whether it's B two C or B

(07:45):
to B. People are people. They spend their time on
social media to distract whatever it may be. And particularly
if your clients are on there, you need to understand
what platform they're on. And then number two, you have
to understand what language they speak. Because some people that
are actively out there looking for a solution, you know,
they are problem aware, and then some people don't actually

(08:06):
know that they have a problem yet. So rather than
trying to compete with the three percent, with everyone else
competing for the three percent of people that are ready
to buy, there's so many other people there that you
could nurture put into your pipeline so that when they
are ready, you are the first choice and you're not
having to compete on Google Ads or whatever it may be.
It's kind of well, I'm going to go to DOM
because Dom's, you know, told me everything that I need
to know overcome all the purchase blockers, I've seen some

(08:28):
social proof.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Why would I go to anyone else?

Speaker 4 (08:30):
And I think people get so hung up on that
because content marketing is not a like a PPC style
switch it on and see instant results.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
People really struggle in this.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Day and age because of Amazon and delivery and next
day this and next.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Day that to have that delay gratification.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
But actually, if you build that inbound pipeline, it completely,
you know, covers you through all these periods of ups
and downs because you've done the hard yards. It's grim
at the start for the first couple of months, until
you find your voice once you hit the hockey. You know,
it's basically a self sustaining thing that requires you to
put less and less effort in but get more and
more out of it.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, those are great points and something I'll add to that.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I'm sure you know, of course who Gary V is,
and many people listening will and I consider myself kind
of proverbially a Gary V disciple.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
I think one of the things he also always talks.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
About is the fact that the distribution is free, and
we've never really had access as individuals to something like
this before. Of course, we know that there's algorithms and
it's not like it's unlimited distribution. There's of course caveats,
But I think additionally for individuals, for people, for businesses
as well.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think you articulated those points well, but.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Just for people who maybe even individual employees, maybe they're
not directly selling a product or services, but they're marketing
themselves and their individual value propositions. I think it's a
tremendous opportunity individuals.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
It's I think it's even better. I think it's you know,
it's the virtual it's the online CV. Now, I know
personally from the people that we hire, if someone comes
in and you've got pretty much exactly the same skills
and you know, you're similar type of person, Actually, what's
the what's the added value here? Well, actually, this person's
built up a community. This person has shown that they
can tell stories. This person has this kind of personal

(10:14):
brand which is a bit of a horrible word and
a bit icky now, but ultimately they can add something
extra compared to the next person.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
So I think as far as you know, getting a
job or getting a promotion, you know, when you're going
in for a promotion, well, actually, what have you done?

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Well, I've got x thousand more eyeballs onto the company
just by me posting content online. So I'm therefore more
valuable to the company. Therefore, I can now negotiate a
better raise or a promotion, or more responsibility or whatever
whatever else it is that you want.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
So yeah, everyone should be using it.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Really work out what your goal is, reverse engineer it
from there, and then mold it to your needs.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, and I'm excited. We're going to talk about goals
those a bit further on the line. But you know,
you how do you get started with you know, what
motivates you to start posting because you're a very active poster. No,
it's obviously work. It has worked and is working really
well for you. So I'm motivated to start posting? And
how has that impacted your personal career trajectory?

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, for me at the start, on the start of
the business, you don't really know what you're doing ultimately,
so you do what people tell you to do, which is, oh,
why don't you just go to these networking events? So
you go into the networking event and things like that,
and you sit it and you do your sixty second
pitch and you sit around these ten people or whatever
you and then three months later you realize you still
sat with the same ten people, all same you all

(11:30):
know what each other does. Nothing is happening because the
people aren't the right fit. So ultimately I thought, well,
actually paying money to go and speak to the same
ten people I can speak to potentially tens hundreds of thousands.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Of people for free on there.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
And then when I started coming onto LinkedIn, because it
was like, you know, six years ago or whatever, I
thought the same as everyone else, it's a recruitment platform
for the gray hair boring people that I'm so thrilled
and humble to announce and speaking like, you know, you're
a child from the Victorian age. And I was sharing
blog posts and thinking that that's what you did, and
that wasn't working either, and I was like, you know what,

(12:08):
I'm just going to start writing like I talk and
just being myself and trying to make people laugh and
try and teach them things at the same time. And
then like the second I started doing that, everything just
started going up and going up and going up.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
So I was playing.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Around for a little bit, but I probably only really
put a strategy in place like four or five months
in and went right, now, we need to use marketing
principles here as far as engaging people in the top funnel,
disqualifying people bringing them down to the mid funnel, showing
some of the case studies we've got and then driving
them into a call or sign up or whatever it
may be. And then as soon as I started putting
the strategy in place, within a couple of months, first

(12:44):
inbound client landed and then from then we've been one
hundred percent inbound business for six and a half years.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Everything has come to us.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah, it was an excellent success story.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Now working with clients, I can imagine that something you've
seen is some times people have there's some inertia to post.
There's people might be apprehensive to get started.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
No, so you've seen many different clients. So from the
clients that you've seen, like, what would you say if
there's one a particular barrier, the biggest barrier, the most
common barrier to people posting, whether it was before they
started working with you or when they're working with you,
what do you see gets a barrier.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
It is I'd say this too, there's the fear of
actual posting as far as what are other people going
to think? And that's kind of, I don't know, like
a self esteem thing, because ultimately, does it really matter
what anybody thinks other than the people that you're actually
speaking to whether that be a potential employer or whether
that be a potential client for instance. And then I

(13:43):
would say on the other side of things, it's people
knowing actually.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
What to write as well.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
You know that that whole creative process, Well, how do
I think of ideas? And then you know, is this
going to be creative enough? People will write these posts
and I'm going to post it, and then the'll panic
last minute and not post it, and there'll be lots
of them just left in their drag because you'll panic
at the last minute, think oh it's not good enough,
and they'll kind of self edit and self.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Qualify them out of it.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
So they're the two main they're the two main ones
that we kind of have to have to overcome and
change that mindset. Rather than just delivering content for them,
we have to put them in the mindset of I
want to post and this is going to be valuable
to the person two steps behind, who's who's saying what
I needed to hear two years ago. You know, that's
what you've that's who you've got to speak to.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Ultimately, when you talked about the fear of posting, is
some of it fear of what other people.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Think yeahndred percent.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
And it's always weird people as well, like my ex
colleagues or my ex partner, And I'm like, the fuck
cares what your ex boyfriend thinks about this? Like I
be sad, Like I don't know, pushing the trolleys around
an Aldi car park do you think? Like why am
I bothered about that person's opinion? Like that's your ex
for a reason. It's your ex employer, or your ex

(14:56):
colleagues or your ex partner for a reason. Like and
you you're always going to get those people who deflect
and go haha, I can't believe you're doing that, Like
people did it at the start with me. Why not
posting on Instagram? Why you post on LinkedIn instead? The
same people six years later asking for jobs. So it's
people just deflect on things that they're quite they're not

(15:16):
brave enough to do yet. And a lot of the
messages you will get when you do that post and
will be dms, because people don't want to engage publicly,
particularly in certain industries. They'll say, oh, you know what,
I thought that too, and I really wanted to say it,
but I can't because i'm you know, hamstrung by red
tape in this company, or it's a bit sensitive or whatever,
and it's those little boosts that keep you coming back

(15:37):
and going, yeah, you know what, people are reading this
and people do care.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Yeah. I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
And later on we'll talk about perhaps some of the
methods to get rid of those barriers. But something that
you just mentioned which I want to circle back with
you talk about the funnel. An important concept for anyone
involved in marketing is the conversion funnels, since ultimately marketing
should lead to something, it's not just it doesn't exist
in a vacuum. How will you describe the conversion funnel

(16:02):
and it's three stages.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
Yeah, I would say top funnel is basically an awareness piece.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
It's letting people know that you're there.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
And for me, the top funnel should also be making
you relatable and making you likable because the problem is
the mid funnel is then when you're sharing social proof
or stories or case studies and things that you've done
that show people that you know your stuff, and the
problem is here because bottom funnel is a bit that
comes after that. That's why you may ask and you go,

(16:29):
I'm amazing at this. The problem is most people come
in straight at the mid funnel and they go, hello, everyone,
I'm amazing, come and work with me, and you go,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Know if you are. I don't care you are, I
don't care what you do.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
I don't feel any form of affinity towards you because
they've neglected that. And don't get me wrong, they're very credible.
Most people that come to us, they're incredibly credible, but
they're just not approachable because they've just been going in
and going by from me, do this, do that, I'm amazing,
I'm amazing. Well, actually, if you come a little bit
higher and you can relate to people on wider university

(17:03):
relatable topics like you know, parenting or education, or politics
or business or your journey, then it doesn't matter if
that person is not even in your ideal audience.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
They will like you, they will support the.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
Content, and they will push your content into their network,
which will have some of your ideal clients into it.
So don't focus on just sitting in that bubble of
trying to engage your peers by using you know, the
jog and high jargon terms of making yourself try and
sound smart, because ultimately your ideal kind of buyer or
employer or whatever it may be, doesn't speak like that.

(17:37):
The only thing people you're going to impress are people
at the same level. There's you, your peers, and if
you do that, you never reach a wider audience.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
And that's the way that you actually scale by making.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Sure that you have a very very clear structure of
everything and once you cast the net wide in the top,
it's also very important to disqualify as well. So you
might have seen some of my stuff where I'll post
about things of like silly questions or you know, major
red flags that we get from clients. Now that is
to put those people off from coming to us, because

(18:10):
if we attract everyone and we market to everyone, I'm
going to waste hours and hours on call pre vetting
people to then figure out that they're not a good fit.
So that's where you can prequalify people out as well,
which I think is equally as important. People get addicted
once they hit the top funnel to attracting people and
getting lots of likes and things like that, but actually,
as you just mentioned, it has to turn into money

(18:32):
at some point, and getting them through that and getting
the right people through that getting attention is easy, getting
the right attention is hard, and getting the right attention
to turn into money is where everything happens.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
That's where the magic happens. So yeah, you've got to
have all of them in place.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
It's interesting that you mentioned that a lot of people
come in or start a mid funnel. From my observation,
which obviously is not as refined as yours, I see
a lot of people actually coming in at the bottom
of the funnel. They just come on LinkedIn and they're
ready to sell something, and you know, they wonder why
people are not. I mean, it's not all about engagement,

(19:09):
of course, it's conversions, but you see that they're not
getting much engagement, if any, on the post.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
I mean not even to the point.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
You know, I've seen you done do many posts where
you talk about one post I got four million impressions
and one that got thirteen thousand, but then in thirteen
thousand led to conversions. I'm not even talking about like
thirty like they're probably not even getting They're literally getting
no comments, no likes, like presumably very few impressions. And
I think it's to your point, it's that top piece

(19:36):
is very important, is I.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Genuinely believe that people don't.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I mean, this is my some kind of cliche, but
we buy products, of course, and services, but ultimately we're
doing business with people.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I'll give you a couple of examples just from my life.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Like I remember every week in La we have a
farmer's market. There's a couple of blocks from me, and
I remember one day I was walking through the farmer's
market and I was I have a beard. I was
scratching my beard and it's this older guy who has
this like this. He sells these kind of creams for
your bear that is very specifical. And he's like, hey,
I see you man, and he kind of he really
tried to connect with me. And I was like, you know,
I wasn't planning on doing this, but the fact that

(20:09):
you actually did try to reach out to me. I
went and I looked over and I got this stuff.
I don't honestly don't think I've ever used it, but
I wanted to support him because I saw the effort he.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Was making on the flip side.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Last night, I was I was walking downtown and there's
this little kind of I'm not really I'm not the vegan,
but there's some vegan burger like stand or something, and
I was just hungry and I went to see if
I could find something to eat, and and the guy
behind the counter was just on his phone like texting,
and I'm standing there kind of just looking at the menu,
and he's just and I just left because I'm like,
this guy's I doesn't want to sell, you know. So

(20:40):
I feel like that interpersonal connection is really important.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
It's just so important.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Then I see a lot of people start from the
bottom and not even the middle.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
From Yeah, you got to you got to give before
you take with with with content. Ultimately, if you go
on there, nobody owes you anything, but if you you know,
we are very reciprocal as creatures, like you've just said
with the story of the guy with with with the
birds and stuff like that, if someone supports you, you
will naturally support them. And if you go out and
go around and need nice comments to support comments, to
share your views on your target markets posts and things

(21:09):
like that, they will one naturally feel inclined to support you.
And two you're teaching the algorithm that you two are
best friends now, so that when you post next, it's
going to lend landing their feed and vice versa.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, so I think the concept of the conversion funnel
is very intuitive for people who are even if they
are individuals, have a business and they're selling our product
or service. Now, how can individuals apply the conversion funnel
concept to their own careers if you look at people
who maybe employees may not necessarily be selling products per see, Yeah,
this is where you.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
Would probably you need to nail down kind of the
destinations if you are going to send people to destinations.
So for instance, you know, if you had if you're
looking for a new job, for instance, and you put
your CV hosted on your portfolio site, then you can
actually track right, Okay, all the clicks and the engagement
I'm getting on my posts? Are they when I push
your call to action and say go and check out

(22:01):
my TV? Have I got Google analytics on there? How
many page visits is that getting? How long are people
staying on there? Am I actually getting any calls back
on messages from recruiters or brands and things like that?
Or if you literally just wanted to kind of build
a presence on there, then you could focus more on
the kind of vanity metrics and say, look, I went
from zero to five thousand and you get in a

(22:23):
five percent engagement rate. Well, okay, that shows that you
can actually harness an audience and get in front of
people and then use that package that up to then
basically sell to a brand and say this is what
I can bring your company. I can do these skills,
but also I can bring this whole new element into
the company and get you in front of so many people.
Because I've looked around in none of your other team

(22:45):
post and you're missing out on huge potential revenue. This
is what I've done over here. Imagine what I could
do to you. Suddenly you know it's an easier conversation
to have you become the irresistible choice.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, so I'm I'm glad you mentioned the point. I
know you brought up that idea of vanity metrics and
had this conversation before. I think when when I was
in the Manchester office. Is the most obvious conversion is
sales and revenue, and I think all roads in some way,
one way, one way shape our form need to revenue.
Having said that, you know from whether it's from the

(23:16):
clients that you've seen or people you've interacted with. Are
there any non revenue metrics that you've seen in terms
of you know, when people are developing success criteria using
that conversion funnel, like one example. I mean, I guess
I told you With my brand, one of the things
that I want to do is kind of change the
way that people think of actuaries and quantitative professionals and

(23:36):
the value that and become more aware of the value
that they can add in society. So from your perspective,
you know, have you seen any examples of other kind
of non non revenue metrics or even revenue tangential metrics.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, I mean, it depends on the depends on the
person or the brand or whatever they're trying to achieve.
But ultimately there are so many as far as like
you know, downloading lead magnets and understanding what people's intent
is to get information. I person really like conversations started,
like inbound conversations coming in because I think a lot
of I don't know if you're the same, but a

(24:09):
lot of people that come to us and have worked
with us have basically been lurkers that I haven't ever
actually engaged on anything, but then they come in the DMCA.
I've been following your post for ages, or they come
through the website and say I've been following your post
for ages and I'm like, why didn't you like or
anything or comment or anything. You never are going in
to being able to measure that other than when they

(24:29):
literally knock on your door and say hello, I'm ready
to buy from you, which is crazy, or I'm ready
to hire you because I've been following you for ages,
which is crazy because it's you know, particularly as marketers like,
we like to plan things and understand how and when
and why and try and micro attribute. But ultimately, I
think having those soft metrics in there for you know,

(24:50):
website visits or conversations started and DMS and things like that,
or even referrals for instance, referrals is a great one,
right Am I actually having such an impact on someone
that when they see a job opportunity or you know,
someone asking for help, they're tagging me as kind of
an unofficial BDM for me. That shows that you're having
an impact, that you're front of mind for people. Even

(25:10):
though they can't buy from you, they are happy to
recommend you to others. So there's so many different soft
metrics in there as well that aren't direct revenue generation.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
It's interesting you mentioned the whole thing with the conversation
started have about the same mix. Not just me, I've
seen rich I don't know if you know Richard Vanderblum,
but he talks about all the time too. Is when
is that that there's a certain amount of trust that
people have to build up. I don't know if he
says it that way, but that's kind of how I
think of it, like a trust that they have to
build up before they start engaging with you, like engage.

(25:40):
I find that some of these social things, like engagement
on social it's kind of like a learned behavior.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
It's a it's a new way of communicating.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I think that people are sometimes skeptical of folks
and it just like you said, they'll follow your posts
for a very long time, they won't engage, and then ultimately,
I don't know, maybe you say something and finally they're
you know, they're they're comfortable liking or commenting. So that
that's something I've seen and I want someone to do
like a psychological experiment, because there'll be times where where

(26:11):
I have a post and it does really well, not
just opposed many posts like I do memes, very often
and I get one hundred and two hundred those impressions
and then yeah, you'll pick up some followers. But I'm
just thinking basic on how many people saw this? How
is it that it only converted to that many followers.
So sometimes I wonder what the psychology behind why people engage,
why they follow you said, why they start conversations. I

(26:34):
think I think that that's quite interesting, and that might
be a feel a field, an emerging discipline.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Who knows.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah, I think you need to look at like
the weiting of the engagement as well that people give you,
because you know, it does have different credibility an impression,
and you actually figure out what impression is. It's like,
I think it's fifty percent of the post is visible
for zero point three milliseconds. Nothing doesn't mean oh my god.
You know, I could have millions of impressions every day
just walking through town. But if you ask anyone if
they remember me, you know, Actually, if you look at

(27:02):
the actual level of the engagement alike, is probably the
easiest thing to give scroll click an actual one of
the other reactions you have to scroll, hold scroll, okay,
waiting there a comment and then kind.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Of the I suppose the golden one.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Is the reshare. This is vibal enough to share to
my audience. The problem of that is LinkedIn kills the
reach on like shares for some strange reason.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's like, no, not having that tested it quite a lot.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
There's been a couple that slipped through and went went
really well, but a.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Lot of the time they don't like shares.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
So the best way to get a post out or
support it, you know, if you want to put your
company page out further, is to actually just drop a
like and a comment on it, a reaction and a
comment on it from you or whoever else, and that
will push it further than than a repost word for instance.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
I actually did.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I actually did learn that from one of the episodes
I did with a company, and they like, they like
the it was a debrief post, like similar to what
we will do for this episode. They like the debrief posts,
I think from the chairman's account, Tennis, and they said
that from their research, that's been fund to push reach
more than a repost. That was a learning to me,
So you know, you learned something new, you know, every

(28:17):
day when you're in this space. No, yeah, no, we
talked about this. Another related concept a few times is
the concept of a target audience. So when you're creating content,
is imperitive to understand who your target audience is. So
how can individuals find their target audience?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well, very very very simple way.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
On linked in particular, it has a boolean search feature
which means, well, if you want, you know, a job
in finance or whatever, you could type in finance plus
director plus Manchester and it will show you all the
finance directors in Manchester. So you can literally get linked
in to go and do that. They'll try and push

(28:59):
you on to get in sales.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
You don't need that. I've never met anybody that's ever
needed that.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
You could you can literally if you have a good
knowledge of the people that you want to speak so
you can search for them by their job, tit to
low company size and things like that on on LinkedIn.
And then as far as understanding their pain points, I mean,
if you don't know them already, then the best thing
to do is actually speak to them and ask these
people what they're what their pain points are, rather than
just guessing and pumping out content that nobody cares about. Research,

(29:27):
look into reviews that they leave for instance, bad reviews,
good reviews, What are they saying about the things that
they care about? Take those key topics and buzzwords or
whatever it may be, and craft content around that so
it feels like that you're speaking directly to them. I
think that research point is really really important, because if
you don't know someone's pain point, they're not going to
stop that scroll and everything below read more could be

(29:50):
the best thing in the world, but unless you have
a really strong hook to hook them in and go
they're speaking directly to me, I want to know more,
I'm curious or whatever, They're never going to hit that level.
So I think it's really very important to understand how
to garner attention first and foremost so.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
When it comes to follow up to what you just said,
the follow it when it comes to that target audience.
I think the response that you just gave, I think
is knowing that, Okay, I want to reach out to
these particular individuals, how can I do it? On LinkedIn
to follow up on that. Another way of thinking of
it is you know that there's generally a group of
people who would be interesting, who'll be interesting for you

(30:26):
to speak to, but there's different directions you can go
different levels of depth. So for instance, I use insurance
as an example. With an insurance you can talk to
all people in insurance, so you can talk to people
in life insurance versus general. If you're going to general,
you can go to personal versus commercial. Like I guess,
a part of my question is how do you think
through or how do folks think through specifically who they

(30:48):
want to talk to? And the reason I ask that
is I've seen different approaches. There are people I've seen
who get very niche, and they get they only just
talk to one very specific group of people and they
talk about the same exact thing every day and they
do really well with that.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
And then there's people.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Who are a bit broader and a bit more general.
I don't think there's necessarily I've rung it right answer,
but when you you know, when you think when you're
working with, whether it's clients are just talking to folks,
you know.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, is that what's an issue.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
That I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend people go to too
niche with it ultimately, because it needs to have that wider,
that wider pull in the in the top funnel with
those wider relatable topics because if you're just speaking to
one person and you haven't done the work on that,
how is your post going to appear on that one
person's feed unless you've actually gone out there and started

(31:35):
interacting with that with the people in these job titles,
for instance, to train the algorithm and kind of go us,
we care about each other. The next time I post,
you should put it in their feed because I'm always
supporting their stuff, so you can.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Kind of prime it and teach it.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
That's about as far as you can get organically without
having to kind of pay to play on that. But
then I think just the wider topics in general, you know,
can guide you if if you don't have a real
strong idea. I mean, if you're coming into any form
of amplification on marketing, you should have a really good
strong grasp with who your target market are on your
pain points. But if you don't get people with writing anyway,

(32:11):
and you might start resonating with a completely different subset
of people or industry or whatever it may be, that
then puts you into you know, that's driven a lot
of personal insurers to come over to me. Now, okay, cool,
So it's just a means to an end ultimately, rather
than kind of going out there with a with a
toothpick trying to trying to catch fish.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Cast the net wide, pull it back in and see
what falls out of it. Cast it again. Was it
right or not? Okay?

Speaker 4 (32:39):
Switch top funnel content strategy, see what comes out of
the bottom this time, and go again.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
You're not going to get it right the first time.
You're not supposed to.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Marketing content is a consistent process of split testing. I'm
going to do this for three months and I'm going
to look at these these and these key metrics. Okay,
we didn't hit this, this this, Let's go again next
three months. Here's the strategy I'm going to do. Connect
with these people, speak about these topics, do this. Okay,
this went up, This went up, This went up. We're

(33:06):
on the right path. And you basically rinse and repeat
that until the end of time until, like you say,
you get what you're looking for your new job, your promotion,
or land of client or whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
So not that you've identify your target audience, what are
the keys to cultivating a relationship with that target audience.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
I think it's first and foremost you kind of you
don't jump in with the business cards straight away because
people people don't like that, you know. I know that
for when I think someone's cool and I'm like, oh yeah,
connect with these people. Thirty seconds later, Hi, do you
want twenty piping hot leads? And you're in box and
I think wanka straight away, like, I just get rid
block report for terrorism, everything I can do to be

(33:47):
as petty as possible, because I don't I don't like
people that do that that kind of.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Start the relationship off on a lie.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Whereas if me and you're bonding over you know how
terrible Manchester United are or something like that.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, it's it's things like that. I think you start
like a real relationship. Most real relationships.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
Start with a friendship you like, you know, you trust,
and then either we work together or I can refer
you to others, and then that.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Is kind of cumulative interest.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
You do that with one person and then they open
you up to ten, and then with three of those
they open you up to ten each, and before you
know it, just by defaults six degrees of separation, you
have five hundred people that think you're really cool, cool dude,
and would happily refer you to people so I think
focus on that first. Don't always think you're there just
to just to sell, because the sales or whatever it

(34:38):
is that you're looking for will come as a byproduct
of just developing relationships, being likable, being relatable.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
There's thousands of people that do.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
What you do, and if people just wanted wanted one,
they just go on Google Google it and say, Oh,
as you've just said, we work with people that we
like and we like people that are similar to us.
So focus on the personal attributes first before you then
drop a gentle hint and they say, oh, did you
know I could help you out with that? Or if
you need you need me to look him with this person,

(35:08):
then no problem, I can do that for you.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Give, give, give, and then you can take.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, the flip side of well, just played Devil's Advocate here,
because you know, there's no perfect times. I just remember
this one guy, he was he was doing that, he
was really genuinely trying to cultivate their relationship. I think
what he was trying to do is he might have
been a financial advisor or something and I just really
wasn't in the market for that, and like he'd reach
our attend to say Hey, how was the fourth of July?

(35:35):
You know how many hot dogs did you have? I
mean it was I could the intent was positive. Yeah,
Sometimes you know, it's kind of like, yeah, how do
I tell this person that, Yeah, I appreciate your effort,
but that's probably not I'm not in the market for that.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
But yeah, so that can happen something.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
That's your fault if you're teasing him and you're not
giving him a straight note. That sounds like that sounds
like your fault to go, oh, yeah, I had twenty
hot dogs.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Maybe check in next week, can check on my hot
dog count? Then that's your fault.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
I actually didn't answer, now fairness. I eventually kind of
let them know it easily and said, okay, yeah, you know,
I'm in sales. I really appreciate there for it, but yeah,
that I don't know.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
I guess. I guess.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
The bottom line is that you're not going to win everyone.
That's it's the numbers game too, So it is. Yeah,
so to relate it to what I just asked to
effectively cultivate their relationship with your target audience, finding your
authentic voice is key when you think of posting on
a regular basis, but what are the keys to finding
your authentic voice when creating content?

Speaker 4 (36:32):
I think read reading stuff aloud when you've written it
is really really important because the first thing I do
when people say, oh, show me your last post and
they're like, I'm so thrilled and humbled to announce a
dynamic new partnership, and I go say that aloud, Say
that aloud now so you can hear it and hear
are stupid you sound? Nobody talks like that, And when
people read content online, they read it in their voice,

(36:53):
in their head, and it doesn't it doesn't get me going,
you know, stuff like that. So I think you have
to you right like you're having a conversation with somebody,
because then when people actually do meet you, they're going
to have an idea and impression of you in your
head from the content you've done, and if that matches perfectly,
it's a great way for them to obviously build trust
to go, yeah, that is exactly who they are on

(37:15):
and offline, which in turn, you know, that's social proof,
that's trust, and that means they're closer to working with
you or recommending you. So I think that's a really
really good one with that, and it's tough to do
because we've been taught so long that you have to
say this and be corporate and do that, and it's
absolute nonsense. All the challenge of brands that come to

(37:35):
us in B to B who give us creative freedom
absolutely smash it out of the park. And then there's
people going, oh, well, yeah, maybe we can be a
little bit more creative. If you are working in a
company that gives you creative freedom to have a personality,
use that because it's an unfair advantage that most other

(37:56):
people in professional services don't have, and you can absolutely
they mop up market share. You saw it with the banks,
you know, all the big banks like, no, no, we're good.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
We can do what we want.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
We'd have to care about people, and we can say
this and do that and have these big folders. And
then Monzo and Stalin came over and said, Hi, we
speak like humans. Here's some personality. We just kept it
super simple. You want to cancel do this. Everyone started
tsunami all over to those guys, and then suddenly the
big incumbents go, ship, we need to, we need to
maybe we should have should be doing that. Don't be

(38:26):
the people that are playing catch up be the people
that are actually you know, form forming the path.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
It's scary, but it works.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
One of the things I want to inspire that note
authentic voice, I really want to inspire people to do
is just speak like people. For instance, it's I think
it's natural for people who have a company or well,
I mean, they could still be speaking in their solar
preneur entrepreneurs that company's voice, but I think it's more
pronounce for for individuals who work for bigger companies, like

(38:56):
individual employees. It just it kills me. And I actually
have a about this on my website where I talk
about the fact that people speak in the company's voice
versus theirs. It really I'm very sensitive to that when
I see it. When I see people reposting all my
companies on this list for best imploy It's just like,
who cares your LinkedIn is about you? It's not about

(39:17):
your company. Your company doesn't need any more pr Yeah, either.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
It's a myth that your company on your LinkedIn profile.
They don't. It's an open social media network. That is
your profile. You do whatever you want with it.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Obviously, if you're bringing the company into actual disrepute and
being you know, racist.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Homophobit, sexist or whatever.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
Yeah, but if you're just having a personality and you've
not started every post with I would love everyone to
read our white paper. Guess what, nobody reads white papers.
Stop posting white papers. No one cares. They're on social
media literally to be entertained, educated, inspired, whatever it may be.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
And their attention spans are like that.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
You think someone's going to sit there from someone they've
never heard of before and read a seventy page white
paper about a subject they don't care about.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
They are not.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
You are delusional, and whoever is telling you to do
that is delusional as well.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
They always seem to be seventy pages, don't they at
least all the time.

Speaker 4 (40:08):
Mads, give me the summaries five bullet points.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
So huge opportunity is to repurpose content. I think, yeah,
a lot of the kind of all corporate audience they
like you said, they spend all this time creating these
very detailed collateral and then they just repost it on LinkedIn.
I think people are going to click and read versus
actually breaking it down into short form and images and
carousels or whatever, you know, exactly, huge opportunity with that,

(40:36):
so none that we have a stone understanding of the
value adds of you know, content creation's actually talk about
some of the mechanics of it. So what are some
of the fundamentals for individuals who want to get started
with content creation.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
I think first and foremost it's understanding the purpose. As
we said before about that pain point that you're trying
to overcome. My belief is that every single piece of
content should make a person feel something. Some kind of
emotion doesn't have to be positive, So you can use happiness,
you can use envy, jealousy, anger.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Whatever else it is.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
If you read back a piece of content that you've written,
we call it the so what test. If you read
it and you go okay and like, and it hasn't
made me feel anything, then you need to switch something
up in there. Because the worst reaction someone can have
to your content, it's not loving it or hating it,
it's indifference. Because in difference, please is nobody. It's just
another thing that people scroll past. It gets buried. So

(41:32):
I think first and foremost understand what you're trying to
achieve with that first bit of content, and then that
helps you kind of reverse engineer it. And then you
can actually just write down the meat of whatever it
is that you're trying to say. That's fine, that's probably
not going to change.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
It is what it is.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
But the hook is going to be really really important
depending on kind of what platform you're putting it on.
So for linksin for instance, you only see the top
two lines, so unless that's something really enticing, people aren't
going to click read more. Or if you're doing any
Instagram video, for instance, you know you're going to have
the first two seconds of the video, you need to
tell people in the first two seconds why they should
watch the next twenty Otherwise they're just going to keep scrolling.

(42:09):
So it doesn't matter how good your content is if
your hook's are put so right the piece of content first,
and then figure out right, how do I make people
curious here? And there's a very very thin line between clickbait,
which is you know, oh my god, if you're born
in nineteen eighty six, you need to see this.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
You've seen it on.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
Like add some other sites and stuff like that. Always
deliver on what you're going to promise. I would say,
I would say that because it gets too clickbaited, people
won't trust you. And they'll just stop clicking on your stuff.
But ultimately, yeah, write it first, then focus on putting
the hook in once it's done, to make sure that
you are actually getting those eyeballs. And then if it
doesn't work, don't bin that piece of content, right, repurpose it.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Post it out again.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
You know on the on the Friday with a different hook.
People have this thing in their head about oh my god,
I can't post that once. Yeah, I can't post that again.
You're not that important. People get hit with twenty thousand
dads a day. They're not going to go, oh, don't
put that out three weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I remember, you know, it's going to have to be
a really special piece for thousands of people to remember that.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Put it back out again. See if it was the hawk,
See if it was the day that didn't land. And
then this is where you can work out and go
right on Mondays this, you know, professional stuff seems to
land on Fridays when I'm talking about my family, that
seems to absolutely bang. And on Wednesdays with your case
studies and that absolutely bangs. Eventually you get to that
stage with enough testing so you have a really clear
strategy that you can then follow but in the initial

(43:32):
stages you have to do a lot of testing.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
That's actually a good point on reposting. I'll be honest,
I've fallen into that trap before, thinking of I call
it main character syndrome, or thinking that people remember.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
What your post.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
When I got to the point where I stopped remembering
if I posted something before, then I realized that, yeah, yeah,
I don't think that they're remembering that either. And what
I realized is that in some ways, somebody's LinkedIn page
it can look different to two or three different people,
because I've like some people only see memes, some people
some people see everything, and some people are interested in

(44:05):
that they will actually seek it out.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
But some people will only see memes.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Some people we'll see podcasts, like some people see different types,
like your page can seem like three different pages depending
on the person. So to your point, I mean, I
guess there's no downside to reposting.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
And and one more thing you mentioned earlier, you talked
about training the algorithm.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
I think, yees, yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Yeah, as far as far as that goes, Like, nobody
actually knows how the algorithm works, even the people who
make the algorithm don't even know that because it just
moves and shit.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
But ultimately.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
It will have the basic characteristics of an algorithm. I
on Instagram, you'll notice or TikTok if your thumb stops
over something for a couple of seconds longer, your explore
feed will start filling up with more of that stuff.
And then ultimately on link on LinkedIn, we've done a
lot of testing with this as well. And if you're
having like a DM conversation with somebody, or you've just

(44:59):
commented on the post or whatever it may be, then
you post it tends to end up at the top
of their feed because it.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Goes, ah, you're chatting.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
You know each other already, so this is going to
be super relevant for you. All these algorithms care about
is delivering the most relevant and engaging piece of information
to that person to give them a great experience and
keep them on the site longer. So you just need
to convince it that it's with your potential new employer
or a potential new client, and then you know, then

(45:26):
it's the case of okay, well we'll give you the visibility.
Now it's a case of visual content good enough, because
if you add twenty accountants do a post about how
you can help accountants, and then no accountants engage or
get in touch.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
That's not a good post.

Speaker 4 (45:41):
That wasn't engaging enough because they've all seen it, and
you can see in the data industries of these people accounting. Okay,
well it didn't land. It was tailor specifically for them.
No one even liked it, never mind comment or got
in touch with me. Okay, I need to work on
the content now. The visibility I can get, but I
need to work on potentially the hook or I hook
them in and they commented, but they didn't go offside

(46:02):
or sign up to this thing. So you can always
pinpoint where the weaknesses are in the kind of content
journey of that.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Something just came to me is when regarding connections, I
know people have different opinions on this. You know, are
you an applicat of people actually sending connection requests? When
I said people like you as if you're growing as
a content creator, you sending connection requests to people in
your space or would you prefer for them to just
follow you organically? And the reason I'm asking is because

(46:28):
I feel like in the past I might have done
kind of the connection thing and probably.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
A regular cadence.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
And then I got to the point where honestly, I
just was so busy that I just let people follow
me organically, and I was I was thinking that if
they did that, then the people who actually took the
time to follow you would be more dedicated. I never
really tested it formally, but what I noticed recently was
I tried. Like I said, I hadn't send out connection
requests in probably almost a year, and I sent it
out for like a week or two, and I did
get Obviously, I got a higher optic of new connections,

(46:58):
but then in my engagement and like really tanked. It
was a huge sudden tanking, not just both reach and engagement.
So I din't who knows. I'm not saying that that
was the reason, but I thought that was interesting. Is
that something that had a connection that you've seen in
any testing that you've done.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah, it's kind of something that we do when we
ghost writing with people, because when you're connecting with somebody,
it needs to figure out if you're going to be
friends or not. So if you send me a connection
request and I accept it, pretty likely it's going to
show me your most recent bit of content at the
top of my feed if you've done something that day,
for instance, and then if I don't engage on it,
it'll go ah next time down post, don't put it

(47:35):
high up and Lewis's feed, So ultimately you can you
can do that. I'm a big advocate of kind of
curating feeds because when you put a post out, it
only goes to a small proportion of your connections to
see if they'll engage on it. So if you've got
a big diluted thing from twenty thousand people from your
last company, for instance, or you've switched industries or whatever,

(47:57):
well I'm now talking about accounting, but actually I used
to be in HR. So it's going to show this
accounting post that three hundred people in HR, and it's
going to tell LinkedIn no one cares about this, so
it'll bomb. So I think having regular like calls and
cutting people down and looking at it and going right,
is this person an ideal client or new employer or whatever?

(48:17):
Could they be one in the future or are they
going to have either of those two things in their network.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
If the answers are no, don't let them in.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
If the goal of your LinkedIn is to generate business,
or get a job or get leads relevant matters. You know,
you don't want to be just feeling like you're screaming
in an empty room. Some people come to us and go, oh,
fifty thousand followers, but no one's engaging, And I was like,
because they're not relevant and your content has not been
good enough to engage them. So now you're gonna have
to work hard to trim them down and have better

(48:47):
content to get back in these the right people's feets,
which is why, Yeah, I'm a big advocate against the
dopamine addiction of chasing likes and followers, but just for
complete vanity reasons.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, No, they think it's key that there's always has
to be an end goal. Now, in closing, something I
want to circle back on from the beginning of the
conversation is we talked about some of the barriers for
people who are getting started with content and why they
may not want to get started or be listening climed
to get started.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
So what can they do.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
To overcome whether it's nerves limiting, beliefs, anything that prevents
them from getting started. What you know, do you have
any advice for people to overcome some of those emotions.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Yeah, first and foremost, don't try and.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
Think of the ideas and drive yourself into that creative fatigue.
Your comments they're just they are content as well. Let
someone else think of the idea, spark that idea, and
then you go in and leave sense to show that
you know things.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Get comfortable with sharing your.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Views when there's thousands of other people sharing their views
as well. So it doesn't feel like you're kind of
studying the spotlight by yourself when you click posts and
you go oh, panic, and then you shut your laptop. Right,
So use that as well. And I think before you
get to the writing stage, you don't have to just
do it straight on on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Like my notes app.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
Whenever I think of something, I just scribble it down
in my notes app all the time. It doesn't have
to be coherent, just get it down in your head.
When cool ideas come to you, keep that on you.
And then when you actually do get to the stage
where oh I need to post something or whatever, you've
then got an ideas bang where you can go in
and just get it, get it spart there and go
oh yeah that did happen and that I did feel
like that and this is what people need to know

(50:25):
about it, for instance. So you've got to make it
easier for yourself. You've got to like prep for your
future self and do the little baby steps. Don't just
go in cold turkey and go right. I'm going to
start writing ten posts a week. Just start with two
post a week, that's fine, and then build up to three.
And then if three is this sweet spot, it's fine.
I don't think I do more than three. I don't
think I ever have. I don't think anyone's that interesting

(50:47):
to do five posts a week, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
With you, yeah, yeah, well wow, this has been just
as good as I thought, or maybe even better. And
I encourage everybody to follow Lewis on LinkedIn and check
come out on light bulb if if you know you
need those kind of services that I think you know,
I think you're a great writer, and I think the
most important thing is that your post always come from

(51:10):
the heart, and that's what I really appreciate about the
content that you post. So thank you so much for
your time and as always as keep in touch and
you know, if you ever come to you know, the
West Coast.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Definitely connecting person, just like Eddie when I went to Manchester.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Perfect mate, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Really enjoyed it all right. Thank you same here. Bye,