August 6, 2025 • 49 mins
Amanda Louder is a Certified Sex & Marriage Coach who helps Christian men, women, and couples overcome their obstacles to create a more emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically intimate relationship. She is also the host of the Sex for Saints Podcast that has over 1.5 Million Downloads.
In addition to being a coach, Amanda is also a wife to Kevin, and mom and step-mom to 5 kids, ranging in ages from 16-25. In her spare time, she enjoys reading, watching her kids play sports, fishing, and camping.
Https://instagram.com/christiansexcoach
https://amandalouder.com/blog/podcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
I'm Megan Skidmore. For 2 1/2 years I have been
talking about evolving faith journeys.
I started to tire of the heaviness of this focus.
I had the clear message come through.
It is time for Beyond the Shadowof Doubt podcast to evolve into
Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast with the same
vulnerability and unapologetic authenticity.
(00:31):
I will be focusing on the joy inthis journey, the life and the
living that comes on the other side of me, maybe on the other
side of what's possible. I want to talk about claiming
spiritual sovereignty and becoming your own captain of
your vessel. Let's celebrate releasing but no
longer alliance for you and connecting with your higher
power and honor. Expanding your energy field to
(00:52):
make room for all things new. All righty.
Hey, everyone, welcome to today's episode of Living Beyond
the Shadow of Doubt. I am so excited to have my
(01:16):
friend Amanda Louder here with me today.
I have long since wanted to haveyou on, and so I'm really
grateful that we were able to make this work.
You are a fellow life coach and you are a mom and a spouse and a
lot of things, so thank you for making time.
Welcome. Thank you.
(01:37):
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Me too. I'm happy you're here.
So let's just, I'm just going toturn the mic over to you.
Take a moment and just share with our listeners a little bit
about you, your background, yourupbringing, family, faith,
religion, your profession, all the things.
Yeah, OK. So I grew up in a pretty
(02:00):
traditional family as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints. My parents are still married.
They've been together for a longtime, almost 50 years at this
point. And we, I was the oldest of five
children, three living. I had two brothers pass away
when I was a child. So that shaped a lot of our
(02:23):
family and, but grew up in a really great home, great parents
and very strong and very family oriented.
I so I grew up mostly in Utah, but we moved back east when I
was in high school and then moved back to Utah my senior
year of high school. And then I attended Brigham Man
(02:44):
University where I met my first husband and he and I were
married for 13 years. We spent most of our marriage in
Dallas, TX and we had three children together.
Our marriage was very challenging, very difficult, and
there was a lot of emotional abuse.
And so after 13 years, we divorced and I met my husband
(03:11):
Kevin very quickly after my divorce.
We, we met when I'd only been divorced for six weeks and he
was also just very recently divorced.
And but we quickly fell in love and knew that we wanted to get
married. And we got married about nine
months later and blended our families.
(03:32):
And so I had three, he had two. So now we have 5 kids together.
We're going to be celebrating our 13 year anniversary next
week. Congratulations.
We are, I would I say, blissfully happy still, even
after 13 years. So we, we just have a really
great marriage and our kids are now almost 17 to 25.
(03:57):
We are two youngest are going tobe seniors this coming year.
And then we'll be empty nesters.So it'll be, it's been a great
experience. I found life coaching in 2017.
So I had thought about, especially after my divorce,
becoming a therapist. That was kind of something that
was on my radar, but when I met Kevin, you know it just
(04:21):
finishing eight years of school because I was didn't have much
school under me at that .8 yearsof school being a full time
parent to five kids just didn't seem really feasible.
So I just kind of put it on the back burner.
But then I found coaching in 2017 and it seemed it was very
life changing for me, as well asseemed like a great fit for what
(04:43):
I wanted for my life because I wanted to help people and help
them thrive in their relationships and marriage.
And being a therapist, I didn't want it to have to deal with
like all of the mental health issues and stuff.
We had enough of that within ourown family.
And I just wanted to help peoplehave a great life and even
(05:03):
better. So I actually first started
coaching women who were struggling in their marriage and
contemplating a divorce. But I quickly realized that many
of the women were struggling because of sex and sex in their
relationship. And I had really struggled with
sex in my first marriage. And it was not something that
was fun or pleasurable. It's something I just basically
(05:27):
did to keep my husband happy every once in a while.
And but when we were about 12 years in to our marriage, I was
like, well, maybe if the sex gets better, our marriage will
get better. And so I faced my sexual shame
head on and dealt with all of the issues and I actually
learned to love sex in that relationship, but the marriage
(05:50):
was still bad. So.
So when I got married to my husband, Kevin, that has always
been a really important part of our relationship.
So I changed my niche and started helping women in their
sexual relationships. And that has created a wonderful
and thriving business for my forme.
And now not only do I coach women, but I also coach men and
(06:13):
couples as well. And it's I love my job, so yeah.
Well, thank you. Yeah.
Thank you for that overview. So many questions.
Which way, which direction do wetake care?
Yeah. So you've been married currently
(06:37):
with your with Kevin, you said about 13 years.
Yeah, well, it'll be thirteen years next week.
So it's been about the same amount of time that you had been
in your first marriage. So you have close to 26 years
under your experience belt, we could say living in a married
(06:58):
relationship. So I like to be open.
I like to be bold and honest. Yes, obviously you wouldn't be
able to talk about sex and relationships and all of the
we'll just say challenges that that can bring to a marriage or
(07:20):
or life your relationship with yourself.
Obviously, if you had sexual shame to face head on, maybe
we'll start there. I'm curious to to hear from you
like how did you come to this awareness about your sexual
(07:41):
shame? And I would be interested if you
could also include, you know, cross section that with your
religious upbringing, you did share how you were raised in a
very religious strong health household that way.
But was there an overlap? And if so, you know, can you
share about that and what that was about and how you faced it?
(08:05):
Yeah, so I, I didn't realize that it was sexual shame.
So I grew up in a home where we didn't really talk about sex.
I think that's common. It's pretty common.
Sex was something that we saved for marriage.
So there wasn't a lot of education from my parents or
(08:27):
outside of my parents around it.You know, I mean, I knew the
basics of how babies were made, but that was about it.
And but I realized that there was a lot of language at church,
but also in our home around, youknow, saving yourself for
marriage, that sex was bad. And then once in marriage, it's
(08:51):
good. I there was a lot of language
around desires, sexual desires being bad.
So, you know, it was, you know, bridal, your passions as quoted
from scriptures and all of the things, the bad things that
(09:13):
happened. And I mean, there was a lot I've
watched family members that, youknow, got pregnant out of
wedlock and how they were talkedabout and, you know, looked at.
And so that I think all of that,you know, lessons in young
women's about, you know, preserving your sexual purity
(09:34):
and how you dress and how that affects boys.
And it's your job to dress appropriately so that they don't
have bad thoughts. And I think all of that
contributed. I had a lot of sexual feelings
and thoughts as a teenager and Ifelt terrible about myself
because of those. I thought that there was
(09:54):
something wrong with me because I had those feelings and would
squash them down as much as possible.
But I, I liked boys. I, I always say I was boy crazy
out of the womb. I, I loved, I loved boys and I
loved kissing boys and going outon dates and stuff.
And so so when I met my first husband and, you know, things
(10:22):
progressed quickly, I had a lot more experience than he did.
And marriage. You're talking your first
husband. My first husband, yes, that like
it was just, I mean, in our culture, you know, you find
someone, they check the boxes. So you, you know, you get, you
say you're going to get married and you get married and then you
(10:43):
can finally have sex. And so, you know, I just thought
that everything would be solved once, once I was actually able
to have sex and it was great forlike 2 weeks.
And then and then I just didn't understand why he wanted it all
the time. I didn't want it all the time.
The meaning frames had changed, which I didn't understand that
(11:05):
at the time, but went from like,you know, bad, bad, bad, bad,
good to like your brain just doesn't turn on when you've
suppressed it for so many years.And then, so, you know, but when
I was a teenager, I had all the shame about sexual feelings and
desires because it was this forbidden thing.
And then I get married and it's allowed and I no longer had
(11:26):
those feelings. And then I had shame about that.
And so it just compounded into, and I didn't understand, like,
why did I have all these feelings as a teenager, but then
I get married and it's allowed and I don't have them anymore.
But I also didn't understand my body.
I didn't understand how women experienced pleasure.
I didn't understand that most orgasms don't come from
(11:47):
penetration. Like I didn't understand any of
that. And so it wasn't until like 12
you almost 12 years in that I finally was like I I was
actually watching Oprah. This was back in the day was.
On network television, how many life lessons did we learn from
Oprah? And she had two sisters on that
(12:09):
were doctors. One, well, one was the
therapist, one was a urologist that specialized in sex.
And they talked about sex in a way that I had never heard
before. It was not, you know, shaming.
It was not inappropriate. It was very tactful and classy,
(12:30):
but still very informational. And so I was like.
Oh. Like I didn't even know that
this was possible to talk about sex in this way.
And so I started like reading everything I could from them.
And they had their own show on Oprah's network.
So I started watching it and then I started like, you know,
(12:50):
buying books and reading. And so it was just a matter of
like starting to confront all ofthe lessons that I had had and
the thoughts that I, the beliefsthat I had around sex.
Like, what do I actually think about sex?
Like, what do I think its purposes?
What's its, what is it like? Is it just for my husband, or
(13:12):
can it be for me too? Am I supposed to experience
pleasure? Well, I have an entire organ in
my body that is only for pleasure.
So maybe, maybe God actually wants me to have this.
Maybe this is a good thing, thatI'm not a bad woman.
I'm not. I'm not a trashy woman because I
(13:32):
want and desire to have sex. And so it just started to shift.
It still took me a while. Yeah, you know, but I didn't.
Know what you say. If you were to guess, months,
years. Probably at least a year, if not
more, yeah. Those those beliefs, those
(13:53):
thoughts are really deeply ingrained.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think while I
felt so much better with myself and I felt better about sex in
general and because the marriagewas still bad, I didn't
necessarily have a chance to really embrace my sexuality in
that. But then when I married Kevin
and, you know, we talked during our, you know, dating and
(14:18):
engagement, like, I mean, he waslike, do you like sex?
I'm like, yes, yes, I do, right.And so we talked about the kind
of relationship that we wanted to build together.
And both of us have been previously married.
So it wasn't like 2 virgins thatwe were before we got married
the first time. And so we had a lot more
knowledge and experience and so it was good from the get go.
And I think I finished healing and really started to figure
(14:42):
things out even more. So, you know, in this loving
relationship where it could be like something that just was
passionate and loving and connecting and so good for both
of us. That's really beautiful.
I am really grateful that there's Someone Like You who
(15:04):
took the reins of your life, specifically your sex.
And I'm going to say intimate life.
Yeah, absolutely. Because it's more than just a
physical act and physical sensation.
So I don't want to you know, right date, belittle or whatever
(15:25):
demean it and that way because so many particularly I'm going
to say of our generation, I think you're similar generation
as me. I would say so Gen.
X and before then that what you've described is definitely
the case. And to even say some of the
(15:46):
things that you have shared would have just been the shock
value would have probably, no seriously, it probably would
have ostracized you from your community at that time and you
would have been seen as scandalous and inappropriate.
Still AM sometimes. And OK, I can only imagine.
(16:09):
Well, OK, so that I, I think leads into my next question.
I'm curious then, you know, having been raised that that way
with all of that messaging, I was too.
I'm still sorting through a lot,waiting through a lot of what
you said. I was like, wow, Yep, check,
Yep, check. As you were listing all those
(16:30):
things, how were you able to know what you had been taught
and yet claim or or take the reins and know that what you
were feeling, what you were experiencing, which was
different then the messaging that you got was OK.
(16:54):
As a matter of fact, it was morethan OK.
You even said you started to entertain the question.
Maybe God wants me to experiencepleasure.
And I'm curious to know what didyou come up with?
Yeah. Well, I mean, it really, it
really took some introspection, but also a lot of prayer.
And I mean, I believe that we can pray and receive answers
(17:17):
from God. And so I prayed and I ask
questions and I feel like I got answers from God because he,
because I was asking good questions.
I was asking questions that I had a sincere desire to do what
is right, but also to know what is right from, to know what is
(17:39):
right, not just in general, but what's right for me personally.
And I think God wants us to knowthose things.
And so and so they answer. So can you think off the top of
your head? We said not just asking
questions, but asking good questions.
Can you tell us more what you mean by that?
(18:00):
So I didn't just ask a question like, is sex good?
I said I believe that sex is good in a marriage and it's good
for me as a woman. Is that right?
That's a different question, right?
Because sex is neither good nor bad, but how we use it actually
(18:25):
creates goodness. Sex is powerful, and there's a
lot of people who use sex for very evil purposes.
And I wanted to use it for good,for me, for my relationship.
And I think God says yes, that is what it should be used for.
(18:47):
And so by asking good questions,I got good answers.
So what would you share with somebody who finds themselves in
a similar situation as what you've described you were in
Let's rewind about, you know, sounds like 1315 years ago,
maybe a little bit more. Who is trying to claim what you
(19:10):
just described, that sex is good?
I am worthy of that good thing, that pleasurable thing like I
don't have to let go of these desires or these wants that I
have in the name of, you know, fill in the blank a teaching or
(19:30):
someone else's feelings or for the good of the whole, the
family, the fill in the blank. You follow what I'm saying.
Yeah, well, I think, I think that like my parents leaders,
they had great intentions, like they weren't trying to hurt me
(19:55):
or anyone else they were trying to keep.
I believe that too. Right.
And so like, while while they did have good intentions, it was
based in fear and. When anything is based in fear,
it does not give good results. And so how can we create
(20:17):
something that is not based in fear to give us better results?
What's the fear there? I mean, I think a big fear is
that sexuality is going to lead us to hell and we don't want our
kids to go to hell, right? And I just don't because I very
much believe in Jesus Christ andHis atonement.
(20:39):
And like we are, we definitely make mistakes, including sexual
ones, and that is not a sure path.
Tell me your honest thoughts. I I love how you are claiming
your spiritual journey, your your spirituality, your faith
journey. It's clear that you are leaning
(21:00):
into your own inner wisdom. Absolutely.
I love that you said I don't believe that sexuality is going
to get us to hell. I think some of that fear based
teaching came from, you know, wewere taught that sexual activity
(21:23):
outside of marriage was a sin. Next to murder, I think murder
is the only thing that was worse.
That's really heavy and that leaves a lasting, enduring
impression that's hard to shake when you realize or if you
(21:45):
choose to listen to whatever your heart, your spirit, your
soul is telling you. I don't know if it's quite like
that. I don't know if that's quite
true, like tell me your thoughtsabout that.
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(22:06):
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It's actually a misinterpretation of the
scripture. So, and I am not a Scriptorian,
(22:28):
so don't even ask me where it isin the scriptures.
But the scripture is taught. It's a, it's a father talking to
a son about his sexual transgressions.
But where we get mixed up is he's actually talking to his son
about leading people away from the church.
And that's what is the sin next to murder, not the sexual
(22:50):
transgressions. So that it's a complete
misinterpretation. So that was that was part of
that spiritual journey is starting to look like what is
the scripture that tells me this, that that sexual sin is
next to murder. And is that actually what it
means is that's what actually isbeing taught here in the
scriptures or and again, prayingabout it, like figuring that out
(23:14):
for myself. And I mean, while I think the
the sin next to murder is well documented.
So is this other interpretation.We just didn't get that.
So I think we really have to examine what our beliefs are and
where they came from and if theycreate goodness in our life or
(23:36):
not. Yeah, I have learned in in more
recent years, I'll say as my ownfaith journey has taken a
significant pivot. I'm very open about this.
You know, when I learned that I had a L GB TQ plus, you know,
and then it was not quite 2 1/2 years later that then he came
(23:56):
out as transgender. And it saddens me so, so much
that there are many passages that are used to nail people to
the wall, to judge, to bring shame, to foster fear, guilt.
This very same concept happens to the LGBTQ plus community.
(24:20):
Passages are completely misused.It has become important to me,
to I, I honor holy writ. It was written thousands upon
thousands of years ago. Words and understandings that we
have now did not exist, Right. Yeah.
At that time, like there, there's not even a point of
(24:41):
reference that is comparable in many cases.
And so it takes some significantself differentiation that you
are, you are not your faith journey, you are not your
thoughts, you are not your feelings.
(25:01):
You are the one experiencing allof this and what do I truly want
to do with that? What do I think about what's
going on outside of me? How do I, how does that resonate
with my soul on the inside? And then moving forward, what
does that look like for me in the manifestation and the
(25:22):
expression of these understandings that you have by
listening to your heart, your, your inner voice, Capital I,
capital V, how did you, how did you take the reins on that?
Yeah, I would say I didn't. I mean the the sexuality part
(25:49):
started the journey. So when I was growing up again,
I have great parents, very. I totally get I I totally
understand our parents did the best that they could with what
they had, as did their parents, as did theirs.
That is the foundation. That's a baseline.
Totally hear you totally get it.So.
(26:09):
I mean, just just as context, myfather is a convert to the
church. He converted when he was 17.
OK. But my maiden name is something
that you would recognize from the Doctor and Covenants.
OK. His father went inactive,
married a Baptist, didn't raise their kids in the church.
So my dad actually grew up as ananti Mormon in Salt Lake City.
(26:33):
OK, so we you know that was so he converted when he was 17.
He went on a mission, married mymom.
My mom grew up also in an inactive family.
So her parents were married in the temple, but they they didn't
raise their kids really in the church.
My mom had a best friend who sheloved and what she would go to
church with her best friend. And so she grew up really
(26:55):
strong, but not in a strong family.
So I think my dad, because he was a convert and because he
studied, he's very intellectual.He studied doctrine and he he
was very strict with doctrine. And my mom taught us more in
(27:17):
faith. So it was, it was very, I think,
fairly balanced between the two of them.
But it was very distinct, like dad was doctor and mom was
faith. That's how it, I mean, looking
back, that's how I see it. And my dad had this saying when
we were growing up, there's the world standards, there's the
church's standards, and there's our family's standards.
(27:41):
And it was very high. That bar was very, very.
Very high. And it was very much about
obedience in my family. And so when I started to move
out of an obedience framework into a more sovereign framework,
(28:01):
it felt very wrong at first. It's because I, so I talk a lot
about, I think guilt is a reallypowerful emotion.
I think it's a really important one because it tells us when
we're out of alignment with our integrity and our values.
But a lot of times we experiencewhat we think is guilt.
(28:23):
That is not actually guilt. It's us taking on the emotions
of other people. And so as I started to move more
into this differentiated sovereign way of thinking, I,
there was, I experienced a lot of guilt that wasn't actually
mine. It was, it was guilt that like I
(28:45):
was experiencing from my parentsand my church leaders and all
the things that I thought I should be feeling, but it
didn't. But it still didn't sit right
because it was not what was actually in alignment for me.
And so it was a matter of learning how to do that and just
give that back to them. I am.
(29:06):
This is what is right for me, and what is right for me may not
be right for somebody else, but it's what's right for me.
Yes, so empowering. Let's just say that together.
Give it back to him. Give it.
Back. Give it back.
I caught what you said, that when you started to move into
this place of sovereignty, yeah,it felt wrong.
(29:29):
And I've learned that often we associate discomfort or the
harder feelings. I don't like to classify
feelings as positive or negativeanymore.
I, I kind of look at them by their vibration, right.
And so the lower vibration feelings are often what comes
when we're trying to step into our sovereignty.
Absolutely. And I've noticed that those
(29:55):
feelings of discomfort, at leastin the faith tradition.
I'm, I'm also the LDS faith tradition.
Often those are associated with a loss of what's called a
feeling the spirit or having thespirit with you.
And that's problematic when we are classifying our, our
feelings and our experiences in such a binary way.
(30:19):
There's so many more layers there.
And so by looking at it as, OK, I'm feeling unease or I'm
feeling a little uncertain or I'm feeling XYZ, I choose to see
those as teaching moments like, OK, why might I be feeling that?
Has anything really gone wrong? Or am I just, you know, what's
(30:41):
going on? And usually it's just I'm
stepping into my next best version and yeah, it's going to
be uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
And it's so worth it. I mean, I would say, you know,
so I mean the shift has started towards the end of my first
marriage, right? And it has continued on huge
(31:04):
shift since I went into like I started coaching with my own
coach and then became a coach. But at the same time, I have
never felt the Spirit stronger than I have the last few years.
I have never had more personal revelation.
I have never had so many outpourings of the Spirit for me
(31:28):
and for my clients like I. I feel like I'm often just a
conduit for that. Amen.
So that because. Yeah.
So, so powerful. And I have watched not only
myself, but also my children, myspouse, my clients step into
this more sovereign place. I mean, the language that I use
(31:51):
with my kids is completely different than the language that
I used when they were younger orthat I experienced.
Because, you know, we'll have these discussions and I'll be
like, this is what I think. But I want to know what you
think because what you think might be different.
And it's probably, it might be right for you, even if it's not
right for me. And what's right for me is not
(32:12):
necessarily right for you. And giving them their sovereign
power that they get to decide what's best for them.
And not just like, no, you need to obey.
Like that has created such beautiful relationships between
us. But also I can see it in
themselves and how much strongerthey are than I ever was at that
(32:34):
age. Think about all the trust that
you're fostering with them and cultivating that will stick with
you in your relationship lifelong.
So I love that you said how muchjoy you've experienced the more
you have stepped into your sovereignty.
I have as well. My spirituality has not just
(32:56):
expanded, it feels like it's exploded as I have truly claimed
all of my spiritual sovereignty that was already there.
It was already mine to be claimed.
I just didn't quite see that andmaybe didn't quite know how, but
I do now so that that's what I want to hear from you now.
(33:17):
I have found there's so much joyto experience and moments of
bliss as we step into that spaceof the unknown feels a little
scary. All that uncertainty.
There's these moments that we just couldn't even probably
fathom prior to that. Share with us where you have
(33:41):
found new new life, like new birth, even in your spiritual
journey, however you refer to itas you know, even new practices
or observances that you maybe have.
Can you know introduce that contribute to that?
Yeah, I mean, my faith continuesto shift.
I I mean, I'm still an active member of the church, but I pick
(34:05):
and choose. I'm OK being a cafeteria Mormon.
And I mean, it's important to meto continue with, with my
tradition. I feel a lot of peace there
sometimes and sometimes I don't.But, but I still find a lot of
(34:27):
joy in, in those experiences andwith my family and even in the
temple, I still feel a lot of joy.
But I, you know, I think one of the biggest things is I found so
much more joy in myself. I don't really, I mean, I still
have those uncomfortable moments, of course, but I've
(34:47):
really just embraced this freedom and sovereignty.
And like, I don't get those twinges of guilt much at all
anymore because I recognize themso quickly now and check, do a
self check. Like, am I in alignment?
Yes. No.
OK, right. And then move on.
And so I've also, I mean, I've realized with developing, I
(35:10):
mean, relationships are really important to me.
They're I mean, that's really what I'm coaching on is
relationships, you know, these marriage relationships mostly.
But so my marriage is so important to me and I found so
much, I find so much joy in spending time with my spouse and
with my kids. I, I mean, I love the
(35:31):
relationship I have with my kids.
I love it. It's so, so good.
It's such, it's such a differentrelationship than I have and
that I've had in the past. And it, it brings me so much joy
to see, to see them and their growth and development and, and
how much love we have in our family.
(35:52):
I think that I found more and more joy the more I understand
about relationships and people and how to be more of myself in
those relationships. I I will say I was a people
pleaser for many, many years. I think that's common.
(36:12):
Yeah, and. Especially among women, yeah.
And I and I lived in resentment.I lived in it.
I was always doing things that Ididn't want to do so that people
saw me a certain way. So I way so that people would
like me to keep the peace in family.
Yeah. And I don't do that anymore.
(36:34):
Yeah, you were living for everybody else.
Everybody. Else, and now I mean, I'm
really, really good about checking in with myself and
saying, is this something that Iwant?
Is this something that I desired?
Does this feel good to me? Is this going to create goodness
in my life? Or is it going to create
resentment? Is it going to like And if it
does, if it doesn't create goodness, I'm I'm not doing it.
(36:58):
I'm not doing. My life is just full of
goodness. It's full of so much goodness.
Yeah, that speaks bliss to me. Yeah.
And I appreciate you being transparent about how you
observe your faith. You use the term cafeteria
Mormon. I've been I've been open since
the policies of August of 2024 targeted toward transgender non
(37:21):
binary individuals cause so muchpain.
I I personally, I've been open about this.
I've taken a step back. And I have no judgement towards
people who do because. It's just so.
It's just not the message that Ibelieve God.
No, I absolutely know God is not.
I. Agree, sending that message to
(37:42):
them. And so that's where I feel
aligned. You talk about doing that self
alignment check and that's also a really important part of
owning our spiritual sovereignty.
So I appreciate you being open. So I about yours, a queer child,
OK and. I knew you did, but I didn't
(38:04):
know if you were open about it, so I didn't want to say
anything. She's very open about it and so
I I'm not going to go into her story and.
Yeah, no need not. Mine to share but but that has
been a huge shift in me as well.Like I experienced things
differently because of her and it has.
(38:26):
There's a lot of things that I don't agree with, but I think
that's what's so important aboutdifferentiation.
Differentiation meaning like I can be close to something or
not, right? I can agree or disagree and
still be close if I choose to beand right now and I I'm not, I'm
(38:50):
saying right now because that may change in the future and I'm
OK with that. Fair.
But right now, I can disagree and still choose to attend.
I don't know that that will always be the case, but right
now it is that what that's what feels in alignment for me.
And I totally respect and honor the people that it doesn't feel
(39:10):
in alignment for because I thinkit's such a personal thing.
I think what you say right there, that's the epitome of
claiming your spiritual sovereignty, claiming how what
you feel, how you align here, how that looks on the outside,
what that manifests as that's that's you claiming your
spiritual sovereignty and littleaha moment.
(39:35):
I mean, I knew this, but that isessentially all that our queer
loved ones want as well. That how they are able to live,
how that looks, how that's expressed, whether it's words or
actions or whatever aligns with how they feel on the inside.
(39:55):
It's really no different. That's all that they want is to
be seen. So beautiful.
What a lovely conversation. Thank you.
Thank you so much for for meeting with me.
The last question I I ask all ofmy guests and I love the answers
because they're all so varied. But what does living beyond the
(40:17):
shadow of doubt mean to you? It means that even when I have
doubts, even when things maybe don't look or feel the way that
I would have expected or wanted,I can still choose joy.
Absolutely you can, yeah. To me, a shadow being there
(40:40):
obviously implies that there's light, right?
That you have to have them both.Yes.
Well, and that's very much in like the Taoist teachings when
we talk about like Tantra and different things, which I do a
lot as a sex code, right, all about.
OK, we need to talk. Yeah, right.
(41:00):
But it's all. Really.
It's all about in Tantra, it's about that we, every single one
of us has dark and light. We were created that way.
You think about like yin Yang all.
That kind of stuff, right to masculine.
We all have that within us, and in order to have light, we have
(41:21):
to embrace the dark. We have to, right?
There'd be no point of comparison or no point of
contrast. No.
And we have, we know that there is, there is contrast, there is
opposites in everything. And that is a wonderful and
necessary part of human experience.
(41:42):
Absolutely. And we can't.
We can't shine. We can't embrace that light
unless we also embrace that dark.
Yeah, I believe it's that push and pull energy that naturally
exists when you do have opposites.
That's what propels us forward. That's the only thing that
creates change, that fuels progress.
(42:03):
So awesome. Oh my goodness.
I love conversations like this. So just a few for fun questions
that I'm going to throw out to you so our listeners can get to
know you. Tell us your favorite book or if
that stresses you out. Favorite book because some
people are like how do I choose?Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a huge
(42:26):
reader. I read probably close to 100
books a year. So I have lots of, lots of
favorite books. But I would say one of my
favorite books is called Secretsof a Charmed Life.
It's a book by an author named Susan Meisner.
She's a pastor's wife, so she writes these really beautiful
historical fiction books that are super clean.
(42:49):
Actually, I read a lot of smuttybooks too.
That's OK, but but. My gosh, Amanda, I love you.
But I I love historical fiction.I love learning about different
times in history. And she writes, she usually
writes things from a dual perspective.
And this book is about two sisters who live through World
(43:13):
War 2 and the London Blitz and their experience there.
And so when I went to London a few years ago, I got to
experience some of the places. And then half the book is set in
the Cotswolds. And I went to the Cotswolds and
I was on Facebook Messenger withthe author.
And she was like, OK, to go downthis road and turn here.
And this is the cottage that I based it on.
(43:33):
So cool. It's really one of my favorite
book. It's a lovely story and and it
really, it taught me a lot aboutthe culture and what happened
during that time. And so I love any.
I love historical fiction. Yeah, it's fun.
I love all those areas you're talking about.
Tell us, are you an introvert oran extrovert?
I would probably have always said I'm an extrovert and I
(43:56):
think I am, but I find the olderI get the more introverted I am.
You know, that's funny because that's fairly common.
I love that. I think part of it is I'm just
more at peace with myself. Yeah, and the more you cultivate
that relationship with self and enjoy being with yourself.
Yeah. Yeah.
(44:18):
OK. Tell us your favorite artist.
My. Favorite artist like you choose?
Like painting artist. Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. I I I love Monet's watercolors.
Yes, me too. I think they're so beautiful.
Yeah, you're a Monet girl. I can tell.
(44:38):
Are you a night owl or a morninglark?
Am I what? A night owl or a morning lark?
Neither. I think that's how I could
describe myself. The old right?
I mean like I've in when I was younger, probably more of a
night owl. I'm out but I'm a big sleeper so
(45:00):
I like now my kids are older andI don't have to get up with them
in the mornings anymore. I I'm usually don't get out of
bed until well after 8:00 and then I'm usually in bed by like
9930. I feel you, I feel your sister.
OK, tell us your celebrity crush.
If you have one, I really like David Boreana.
(45:23):
That's a good one. Yeah, he's probably my favorite.
He's probably. Awesome.
Do you do still or carbonated water, diet soda or some other
fun beverage so. I drink water with some sort of
citrus in it. All I ever drink that's scummy
so I get. Kidney stones.
So I gave up soda and yeah. And the citrus helps with my
(45:49):
kidney stones, so it's water. There you go, very healthy and
then finally the furthest place that you have travelled.
The furthest place, probably Italy, in Italy in April.
One day. One day.
So tell our listeners about any offers that you might have or if
(46:11):
they have questions and want to reach out to you just how they
are able to do all of those things.
Yes. So my website is just my name,
amandalouder.com, and on there there's lots of information
about coaching with me as an individual or as a couple.
I also have a membership for women.
So that's a. Pretty low price option for some
(46:32):
people if they like that option.I do occasionally have different
events. I do retreats for couples and
women. Right now I'm in the middle of
it so it's not open, but you canget on the waiting list for my
ex when I'm doing a three-week live course for couples.
So where they can come, OK on Monday nights from 7:00 to 9:00
PM and they come and I teach andthen we coach and it.
(46:54):
That's awesome. When you say live, do you mean
virtually live or in person? Virtually on Zoom Virtually,
yeah, but it's like not just recorded or something.
It's like they're coming live. So real time.
Yeah, real time. And then I have a podcast called
Sex for Saints. There's almost 400 episodes, so
it's. Congrats, that is quite the
(47:17):
accomplishment. I hit 200 earlier this year.
It is a lot of work. So yes, I have.
Good for you. An episode every single Friday
since 2018. So it's been a long time.
And then on Instagram, I'm Christian.
Sex coach is my handle. OK, great.
Well I will make sure and include all of that in the show
(47:39):
notes and on some social media posts as well.
Amanda, it has been wonderful, so informative and so fun.
Thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me, Megan.
Absolutely, Writer, teacher, author, Mormon scholar and
founder of dialogue journal Eugene England said.
(48:01):
My faith encourages my curiosityand awe, thrusts me out into
relationship with all creation, and encourages me to enter into
dialogue. As a proud member of the
Dialogue Podcast Network, my hope is that Living Beyond the
Shadow of Doubt podcast is an extension of that vision.
(48:30):
Hopeful Spaces is a Dallas Hope Charities component of Hopeful
Discussions. Sponsored by Mercedes-Benz
Financial Services USA. It's a free monthly parent, ally
or caregiver support group facilitated by
megan.skidmorecoachingemailchc@dallashopecharities.orgfor more info.
(48:55):
Visit meganskidmorecoaching.com to find this podcast and
additional free resources, including the link for a
complimentary coaching session. Follow me on Facebook or
Instagram for more or to send mea DM.
Help the podcast grow. Please follow, review and share
with a friend.
I'm Megan Skidmore. For 2 1/2 years I have been
talking about evolving faith journeys.
I started to tire of the heaviness of this focus.
I had the clear message come through.
It is time for Beyond the Shadowof Doubt podcast to evolve into
Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast with the same
vulnerability and unapologetic authenticity.
(00:31):
I will be focusing on the joy inthis journey, the life and the
living that comes on the other side of me, maybe on the other
side of what's possible. I want to talk about claiming
spiritual sovereignty and becoming your own captain of
your vessel. Let's celebrate releasing but no
longer alliance for you and connecting with your higher
power and honor. Expanding your energy field to
(00:52):
make room for all things new. All righty.
Hey, everyone, welcome to today's episode of Living Beyond
the Shadow of Doubt. I am so excited to have my
(01:16):
friend Amanda Louder here with me today.
I have long since wanted to haveyou on, and so I'm really
grateful that we were able to make this work.
You are a fellow life coach and you are a mom and a spouse and a
lot of things, so thank you for making time.
Welcome. Thank you.
(01:37):
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Me too. I'm happy you're here.
So let's just, I'm just going toturn the mic over to you.
Take a moment and just share with our listeners a little bit
about you, your background, yourupbringing, family, faith,
religion, your profession, all the things.
Yeah, OK. So I grew up in a pretty
(02:00):
traditional family as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints. My parents are still married.
They've been together for a longtime, almost 50 years at this
point. And we, I was the oldest of five
children, three living. I had two brothers pass away
when I was a child. So that shaped a lot of our
(02:23):
family and, but grew up in a really great home, great parents
and very strong and very family oriented.
I so I grew up mostly in Utah, but we moved back east when I
was in high school and then moved back to Utah my senior
year of high school. And then I attended Brigham Man
(02:44):
University where I met my first husband and he and I were
married for 13 years. We spent most of our marriage in
Dallas, TX and we had three children together.
Our marriage was very challenging, very difficult, and
there was a lot of emotional abuse.
And so after 13 years, we divorced and I met my husband
(03:11):
Kevin very quickly after my divorce.
We, we met when I'd only been divorced for six weeks and he
was also just very recently divorced.
And but we quickly fell in love and knew that we wanted to get
married. And we got married about nine
months later and blended our families.
(03:32):
And so I had three, he had two. So now we have 5 kids together.
We're going to be celebrating our 13 year anniversary next
week. Congratulations.
We are, I would I say, blissfully happy still, even
after 13 years. So we, we just have a really
great marriage and our kids are now almost 17 to 25.
(03:57):
We are two youngest are going tobe seniors this coming year.
And then we'll be empty nesters.So it'll be, it's been a great
experience. I found life coaching in 2017.
So I had thought about, especially after my divorce,
becoming a therapist. That was kind of something that
was on my radar, but when I met Kevin, you know it just
(04:21):
finishing eight years of school because I was didn't have much
school under me at that .8 yearsof school being a full time
parent to five kids just didn't seem really feasible.
So I just kind of put it on the back burner.
But then I found coaching in 2017 and it seemed it was very
life changing for me, as well asseemed like a great fit for what
(04:43):
I wanted for my life because I wanted to help people and help
them thrive in their relationships and marriage.
And being a therapist, I didn't want it to have to deal with
like all of the mental health issues and stuff.
We had enough of that within ourown family.
And I just wanted to help peoplehave a great life and even
(05:03):
better. So I actually first started
coaching women who were struggling in their marriage and
contemplating a divorce. But I quickly realized that many
of the women were struggling because of sex and sex in their
relationship. And I had really struggled with
sex in my first marriage. And it was not something that
was fun or pleasurable. It's something I just basically
(05:27):
did to keep my husband happy every once in a while.
And but when we were about 12 years in to our marriage, I was
like, well, maybe if the sex gets better, our marriage will
get better. And so I faced my sexual shame
head on and dealt with all of the issues and I actually
learned to love sex in that relationship, but the marriage
(05:50):
was still bad. So.
So when I got married to my husband, Kevin, that has always
been a really important part of our relationship.
So I changed my niche and started helping women in their
sexual relationships. And that has created a wonderful
and thriving business for my forme.
And now not only do I coach women, but I also coach men and
(06:13):
couples as well. And it's I love my job, so yeah.
Well, thank you. Yeah.
Thank you for that overview. So many questions.
Which way, which direction do wetake care?
Yeah. So you've been married currently
(06:37):
with your with Kevin, you said about 13 years.
Yeah, well, it'll be thirteen years next week.
So it's been about the same amount of time that you had been
in your first marriage. So you have close to 26 years
under your experience belt, we could say living in a married
(06:58):
relationship. So I like to be open.
I like to be bold and honest. Yes, obviously you wouldn't be
able to talk about sex and relationships and all of the
we'll just say challenges that that can bring to a marriage or
(07:20):
or life your relationship with yourself.
Obviously, if you had sexual shame to face head on, maybe
we'll start there. I'm curious to to hear from you
like how did you come to this awareness about your sexual
(07:41):
shame? And I would be interested if you
could also include, you know, cross section that with your
religious upbringing, you did share how you were raised in a
very religious strong health household that way.
But was there an overlap? And if so, you know, can you
share about that and what that was about and how you faced it?
(08:05):
Yeah, so I, I didn't realize that it was sexual shame.
So I grew up in a home where we didn't really talk about sex.
I think that's common. It's pretty common.
Sex was something that we saved for marriage.
So there wasn't a lot of education from my parents or
(08:27):
outside of my parents around it.You know, I mean, I knew the
basics of how babies were made, but that was about it.
And but I realized that there was a lot of language at church,
but also in our home around, youknow, saving yourself for
marriage, that sex was bad. And then once in marriage, it's
(08:51):
good. I there was a lot of language
around desires, sexual desires being bad.
So, you know, it was, you know, bridal, your passions as quoted
from scriptures and all of the things, the bad things that
(09:13):
happened. And I mean, there was a lot I've
watched family members that, youknow, got pregnant out of
wedlock and how they were talkedabout and, you know, looked at.
And so that I think all of that,you know, lessons in young
women's about, you know, preserving your sexual purity
(09:34):
and how you dress and how that affects boys.
And it's your job to dress appropriately so that they don't
have bad thoughts. And I think all of that
contributed. I had a lot of sexual feelings
and thoughts as a teenager and Ifelt terrible about myself
because of those. I thought that there was
(09:54):
something wrong with me because I had those feelings and would
squash them down as much as possible.
But I, I liked boys. I, I always say I was boy crazy
out of the womb. I, I loved, I loved boys and I
loved kissing boys and going outon dates and stuff.
And so so when I met my first husband and, you know, things
(10:22):
progressed quickly, I had a lot more experience than he did.
And marriage. You're talking your first
husband. My first husband, yes, that like
it was just, I mean, in our culture, you know, you find
someone, they check the boxes. So you, you know, you get, you
say you're going to get married and you get married and then you
(10:43):
can finally have sex. And so, you know, I just thought
that everything would be solved once, once I was actually able
to have sex and it was great forlike 2 weeks.
And then and then I just didn't understand why he wanted it all
the time. I didn't want it all the time.
The meaning frames had changed, which I didn't understand that
(11:05):
at the time, but went from like,you know, bad, bad, bad, bad,
good to like your brain just doesn't turn on when you've
suppressed it for so many years.And then, so, you know, but when
I was a teenager, I had all the shame about sexual feelings and
desires because it was this forbidden thing.
And then I get married and it's allowed and I no longer had
(11:26):
those feelings. And then I had shame about that.
And so it just compounded into, and I didn't understand, like,
why did I have all these feelings as a teenager, but then
I get married and it's allowed and I don't have them anymore.
But I also didn't understand my body.
I didn't understand how women experienced pleasure.
I didn't understand that most orgasms don't come from
(11:47):
penetration. Like I didn't understand any of
that. And so it wasn't until like 12
you almost 12 years in that I finally was like I I was
actually watching Oprah. This was back in the day was.
On network television, how many life lessons did we learn from
Oprah? And she had two sisters on that
(12:09):
were doctors. One, well, one was the
therapist, one was a urologist that specialized in sex.
And they talked about sex in a way that I had never heard
before. It was not, you know, shaming.
It was not inappropriate. It was very tactful and classy,
(12:30):
but still very informational. And so I was like.
Oh. Like I didn't even know that
this was possible to talk about sex in this way.
And so I started like reading everything I could from them.
And they had their own show on Oprah's network.
So I started watching it and then I started like, you know,
(12:50):
buying books and reading. And so it was just a matter of
like starting to confront all ofthe lessons that I had had and
the thoughts that I, the beliefsthat I had around sex.
Like, what do I actually think about sex?
Like, what do I think its purposes?
What's its, what is it like? Is it just for my husband, or
(13:12):
can it be for me too? Am I supposed to experience
pleasure? Well, I have an entire organ in
my body that is only for pleasure.
So maybe, maybe God actually wants me to have this.
Maybe this is a good thing, thatI'm not a bad woman.
I'm not. I'm not a trashy woman because I
(13:32):
want and desire to have sex. And so it just started to shift.
It still took me a while. Yeah, you know, but I didn't.
Know what you say. If you were to guess, months,
years. Probably at least a year, if not
more, yeah. Those those beliefs, those
(13:53):
thoughts are really deeply ingrained.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think while I
felt so much better with myself and I felt better about sex in
general and because the marriagewas still bad, I didn't
necessarily have a chance to really embrace my sexuality in
that. But then when I married Kevin
and, you know, we talked during our, you know, dating and
(14:18):
engagement, like, I mean, he waslike, do you like sex?
I'm like, yes, yes, I do, right.And so we talked about the kind
of relationship that we wanted to build together.
And both of us have been previously married.
So it wasn't like 2 virgins thatwe were before we got married
the first time. And so we had a lot more
knowledge and experience and so it was good from the get go.
And I think I finished healing and really started to figure
(14:42):
things out even more. So, you know, in this loving
relationship where it could be like something that just was
passionate and loving and connecting and so good for both
of us. That's really beautiful.
I am really grateful that there's Someone Like You who
(15:04):
took the reins of your life, specifically your sex.
And I'm going to say intimate life.
Yeah, absolutely. Because it's more than just a
physical act and physical sensation.
So I don't want to you know, right date, belittle or whatever
(15:25):
demean it and that way because so many particularly I'm going
to say of our generation, I think you're similar generation
as me. I would say so Gen.
X and before then that what you've described is definitely
the case. And to even say some of the
(15:46):
things that you have shared would have just been the shock
value would have probably, no seriously, it probably would
have ostracized you from your community at that time and you
would have been seen as scandalous and inappropriate.
Still AM sometimes. And OK, I can only imagine.
(16:09):
Well, OK, so that I, I think leads into my next question.
I'm curious then, you know, having been raised that that way
with all of that messaging, I was too.
I'm still sorting through a lot,waiting through a lot of what
you said. I was like, wow, Yep, check,
Yep, check. As you were listing all those
(16:30):
things, how were you able to know what you had been taught
and yet claim or or take the reins and know that what you
were feeling, what you were experiencing, which was
different then the messaging that you got was OK.
(16:54):
As a matter of fact, it was morethan OK.
You even said you started to entertain the question.
Maybe God wants me to experiencepleasure.
And I'm curious to know what didyou come up with?
Yeah. Well, I mean, it really, it
really took some introspection, but also a lot of prayer.
And I mean, I believe that we can pray and receive answers
(17:17):
from God. And so I prayed and I ask
questions and I feel like I got answers from God because he,
because I was asking good questions.
I was asking questions that I had a sincere desire to do what
is right, but also to know what is right from, to know what is
(17:39):
right, not just in general, but what's right for me personally.
And I think God wants us to knowthose things.
And so and so they answer. So can you think off the top of
your head? We said not just asking
questions, but asking good questions.
Can you tell us more what you mean by that?
(18:00):
So I didn't just ask a question like, is sex good?
I said I believe that sex is good in a marriage and it's good
for me as a woman. Is that right?
That's a different question, right?
Because sex is neither good nor bad, but how we use it actually
(18:25):
creates goodness. Sex is powerful, and there's a
lot of people who use sex for very evil purposes.
And I wanted to use it for good,for me, for my relationship.
And I think God says yes, that is what it should be used for.
(18:47):
And so by asking good questions,I got good answers.
So what would you share with somebody who finds themselves in
a similar situation as what you've described you were in
Let's rewind about, you know, sounds like 1315 years ago,
maybe a little bit more. Who is trying to claim what you
(19:10):
just described, that sex is good?
I am worthy of that good thing, that pleasurable thing like I
don't have to let go of these desires or these wants that I
have in the name of, you know, fill in the blank a teaching or
(19:30):
someone else's feelings or for the good of the whole, the
family, the fill in the blank. You follow what I'm saying.
Yeah, well, I think, I think that like my parents leaders,
they had great intentions, like they weren't trying to hurt me
(19:55):
or anyone else they were trying to keep.
I believe that too. Right.
And so like, while while they did have good intentions, it was
based in fear and. When anything is based in fear,
it does not give good results. And so how can we create
(20:17):
something that is not based in fear to give us better results?
What's the fear there? I mean, I think a big fear is
that sexuality is going to lead us to hell and we don't want our
kids to go to hell, right? And I just don't because I very
much believe in Jesus Christ andHis atonement.
(20:39):
And like we are, we definitely make mistakes, including sexual
ones, and that is not a sure path.
Tell me your honest thoughts. I I love how you are claiming
your spiritual journey, your your spirituality, your faith
journey. It's clear that you are leaning
(21:00):
into your own inner wisdom. Absolutely.
I love that you said I don't believe that sexuality is going
to get us to hell. I think some of that fear based
teaching came from, you know, wewere taught that sexual activity
(21:23):
outside of marriage was a sin. Next to murder, I think murder
is the only thing that was worse.
That's really heavy and that leaves a lasting, enduring
impression that's hard to shake when you realize or if you
(21:45):
choose to listen to whatever your heart, your spirit, your
soul is telling you. I don't know if it's quite like
that. I don't know if that's quite
true, like tell me your thoughtsabout that.
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It's actually a misinterpretation of the
scripture. So, and I am not a Scriptorian,
(22:28):
so don't even ask me where it isin the scriptures.
But the scripture is taught. It's a, it's a father talking to
a son about his sexual transgressions.
But where we get mixed up is he's actually talking to his son
about leading people away from the church.
And that's what is the sin next to murder, not the sexual
(22:50):
transgressions. So that it's a complete
misinterpretation. So that was that was part of
that spiritual journey is starting to look like what is
the scripture that tells me this, that that sexual sin is
next to murder. And is that actually what it
means is that's what actually isbeing taught here in the
scriptures or and again, prayingabout it, like figuring that out
(23:14):
for myself. And I mean, while I think the
the sin next to murder is well documented.
So is this other interpretation.We just didn't get that.
So I think we really have to examine what our beliefs are and
where they came from and if theycreate goodness in our life or
(23:36):
not. Yeah, I have learned in in more
recent years, I'll say as my ownfaith journey has taken a
significant pivot. I'm very open about this.
You know, when I learned that I had a L GB TQ plus, you know,
and then it was not quite 2 1/2 years later that then he came
(23:56):
out as transgender. And it saddens me so, so much
that there are many passages that are used to nail people to
the wall, to judge, to bring shame, to foster fear, guilt.
This very same concept happens to the LGBTQ plus community.
(24:20):
Passages are completely misused.It has become important to me,
to I, I honor holy writ. It was written thousands upon
thousands of years ago. Words and understandings that we
have now did not exist, Right. Yeah.
At that time, like there, there's not even a point of
(24:41):
reference that is comparable in many cases.
And so it takes some significantself differentiation that you
are, you are not your faith journey, you are not your
thoughts, you are not your feelings.
(25:01):
You are the one experiencing allof this and what do I truly want
to do with that? What do I think about what's
going on outside of me? How do I, how does that resonate
with my soul on the inside? And then moving forward, what
does that look like for me in the manifestation and the
(25:22):
expression of these understandings that you have by
listening to your heart, your, your inner voice, Capital I,
capital V, how did you, how did you take the reins on that?
Yeah, I would say I didn't. I mean the the sexuality part
(25:49):
started the journey. So when I was growing up again,
I have great parents, very. I totally get I I totally
understand our parents did the best that they could with what
they had, as did their parents, as did theirs.
That is the foundation. That's a baseline.
Totally hear you totally get it.So.
(26:09):
I mean, just just as context, myfather is a convert to the
church. He converted when he was 17.
OK. But my maiden name is something
that you would recognize from the Doctor and Covenants.
OK. His father went inactive,
married a Baptist, didn't raise their kids in the church.
So my dad actually grew up as ananti Mormon in Salt Lake City.
(26:33):
OK, so we you know that was so he converted when he was 17.
He went on a mission, married mymom.
My mom grew up also in an inactive family.
So her parents were married in the temple, but they they didn't
raise their kids really in the church.
My mom had a best friend who sheloved and what she would go to
church with her best friend. And so she grew up really
(26:55):
strong, but not in a strong family.
So I think my dad, because he was a convert and because he
studied, he's very intellectual.He studied doctrine and he he
was very strict with doctrine. And my mom taught us more in
(27:17):
faith. So it was, it was very, I think,
fairly balanced between the two of them.
But it was very distinct, like dad was doctor and mom was
faith. That's how it, I mean, looking
back, that's how I see it. And my dad had this saying when
we were growing up, there's the world standards, there's the
church's standards, and there's our family's standards.
(27:41):
And it was very high. That bar was very, very.
Very high. And it was very much about
obedience in my family. And so when I started to move
out of an obedience framework into a more sovereign framework,
(28:01):
it felt very wrong at first. It's because I, so I talk a lot
about, I think guilt is a reallypowerful emotion.
I think it's a really important one because it tells us when
we're out of alignment with our integrity and our values.
But a lot of times we experiencewhat we think is guilt.
(28:23):
That is not actually guilt. It's us taking on the emotions
of other people. And so as I started to move more
into this differentiated sovereign way of thinking, I,
there was, I experienced a lot of guilt that wasn't actually
mine. It was, it was guilt that like I
(28:45):
was experiencing from my parentsand my church leaders and all
the things that I thought I should be feeling, but it
didn't. But it still didn't sit right
because it was not what was actually in alignment for me.
And so it was a matter of learning how to do that and just
give that back to them. I am.
(29:06):
This is what is right for me, and what is right for me may not
be right for somebody else, but it's what's right for me.
Yes, so empowering. Let's just say that together.
Give it back to him. Give it.
Back. Give it back.
I caught what you said, that when you started to move into
this place of sovereignty, yeah,it felt wrong.
(29:29):
And I've learned that often we associate discomfort or the
harder feelings. I don't like to classify
feelings as positive or negativeanymore.
I, I kind of look at them by their vibration, right.
And so the lower vibration feelings are often what comes
when we're trying to step into our sovereignty.
Absolutely. And I've noticed that those
(29:55):
feelings of discomfort, at leastin the faith tradition.
I'm, I'm also the LDS faith tradition.
Often those are associated with a loss of what's called a
feeling the spirit or having thespirit with you.
And that's problematic when we are classifying our, our
feelings and our experiences in such a binary way.
(30:19):
There's so many more layers there.
And so by looking at it as, OK, I'm feeling unease or I'm
feeling a little uncertain or I'm feeling XYZ, I choose to see
those as teaching moments like, OK, why might I be feeling that?
Has anything really gone wrong? Or am I just, you know, what's
(30:41):
going on? And usually it's just I'm
stepping into my next best version and yeah, it's going to
be uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is.
And it's so worth it. I mean, I would say, you know,
so I mean the shift has started towards the end of my first
marriage, right? And it has continued on huge
(31:04):
shift since I went into like I started coaching with my own
coach and then became a coach. But at the same time, I have
never felt the Spirit stronger than I have the last few years.
I have never had more personal revelation.
I have never had so many outpourings of the Spirit for me
(31:28):
and for my clients like I. I feel like I'm often just a
conduit for that. Amen.
So that because. Yeah.
So, so powerful. And I have watched not only
myself, but also my children, myspouse, my clients step into
this more sovereign place. I mean, the language that I use
(31:51):
with my kids is completely different than the language that
I used when they were younger orthat I experienced.
Because, you know, we'll have these discussions and I'll be
like, this is what I think. But I want to know what you
think because what you think might be different.
And it's probably, it might be right for you, even if it's not
right for me. And what's right for me is not
(32:12):
necessarily right for you. And giving them their sovereign
power that they get to decide what's best for them.
And not just like, no, you need to obey.
Like that has created such beautiful relationships between
us. But also I can see it in
themselves and how much strongerthey are than I ever was at that
(32:34):
age. Think about all the trust that
you're fostering with them and cultivating that will stick with
you in your relationship lifelong.
So I love that you said how muchjoy you've experienced the more
you have stepped into your sovereignty.
I have as well. My spirituality has not just
(32:56):
expanded, it feels like it's exploded as I have truly claimed
all of my spiritual sovereignty that was already there.
It was already mine to be claimed.
I just didn't quite see that andmaybe didn't quite know how, but
I do now so that that's what I want to hear from you now.
(33:17):
I have found there's so much joyto experience and moments of
bliss as we step into that spaceof the unknown feels a little
scary. All that uncertainty.
There's these moments that we just couldn't even probably
fathom prior to that. Share with us where you have
(33:41):
found new new life, like new birth, even in your spiritual
journey, however you refer to itas you know, even new practices
or observances that you maybe have.
Can you know introduce that contribute to that?
Yeah, I mean, my faith continuesto shift.
I I mean, I'm still an active member of the church, but I pick
(34:05):
and choose. I'm OK being a cafeteria Mormon.
And I mean, it's important to meto continue with, with my
tradition. I feel a lot of peace there
sometimes and sometimes I don't.But, but I still find a lot of
(34:27):
joy in, in those experiences andwith my family and even in the
temple, I still feel a lot of joy.
But I, you know, I think one of the biggest things is I found so
much more joy in myself. I don't really, I mean, I still
have those uncomfortable moments, of course, but I've
(34:47):
really just embraced this freedom and sovereignty.
And like, I don't get those twinges of guilt much at all
anymore because I recognize themso quickly now and check, do a
self check. Like, am I in alignment?
Yes. No.
OK, right. And then move on.
And so I've also, I mean, I've realized with developing, I
(35:10):
mean, relationships are really important to me.
They're I mean, that's really what I'm coaching on is
relationships, you know, these marriage relationships mostly.
But so my marriage is so important to me and I found so
much, I find so much joy in spending time with my spouse and
with my kids. I, I mean, I love the
(35:31):
relationship I have with my kids.
I love it. It's so, so good.
It's such, it's such a differentrelationship than I have and
that I've had in the past. And it, it brings me so much joy
to see, to see them and their growth and development and, and
how much love we have in our family.
(35:52):
I think that I found more and more joy the more I understand
about relationships and people and how to be more of myself in
those relationships. I I will say I was a people
pleaser for many, many years. I think that's common.
(36:12):
Yeah, and. Especially among women, yeah.
And I and I lived in resentment.I lived in it.
I was always doing things that Ididn't want to do so that people
saw me a certain way. So I way so that people would
like me to keep the peace in family.
Yeah. And I don't do that anymore.
(36:34):
Yeah, you were living for everybody else.
Everybody. Else, and now I mean, I'm
really, really good about checking in with myself and
saying, is this something that Iwant?
Is this something that I desired?
Does this feel good to me? Is this going to create goodness
in my life? Or is it going to create
resentment? Is it going to like And if it
does, if it doesn't create goodness, I'm I'm not doing it.
(36:58):
I'm not doing. My life is just full of
goodness. It's full of so much goodness.
Yeah, that speaks bliss to me. Yeah.
And I appreciate you being transparent about how you
observe your faith. You use the term cafeteria
Mormon. I've been I've been open since
the policies of August of 2024 targeted toward transgender non
(37:21):
binary individuals cause so muchpain.
I I personally, I've been open about this.
I've taken a step back. And I have no judgement towards
people who do because. It's just so.
It's just not the message that Ibelieve God.
No, I absolutely know God is not.
I. Agree, sending that message to
(37:42):
them. And so that's where I feel
aligned. You talk about doing that self
alignment check and that's also a really important part of
owning our spiritual sovereignty.
So I appreciate you being open. So I about yours, a queer child,
OK and. I knew you did, but I didn't
(38:04):
know if you were open about it, so I didn't want to say
anything. She's very open about it and so
I I'm not going to go into her story and.
Yeah, no need not. Mine to share but but that has
been a huge shift in me as well.Like I experienced things
differently because of her and it has.
(38:26):
There's a lot of things that I don't agree with, but I think
that's what's so important aboutdifferentiation.
Differentiation meaning like I can be close to something or
not, right? I can agree or disagree and
still be close if I choose to beand right now and I I'm not, I'm
(38:50):
saying right now because that may change in the future and I'm
OK with that. Fair.
But right now, I can disagree and still choose to attend.
I don't know that that will always be the case, but right
now it is that what that's what feels in alignment for me.
And I totally respect and honor the people that it doesn't feel
(39:10):
in alignment for because I thinkit's such a personal thing.
I think what you say right there, that's the epitome of
claiming your spiritual sovereignty, claiming how what
you feel, how you align here, how that looks on the outside,
what that manifests as that's that's you claiming your
spiritual sovereignty and littleaha moment.
(39:35):
I mean, I knew this, but that isessentially all that our queer
loved ones want as well. That how they are able to live,
how that looks, how that's expressed, whether it's words or
actions or whatever aligns with how they feel on the inside.
(39:55):
It's really no different. That's all that they want is to
be seen. So beautiful.
What a lovely conversation. Thank you.
Thank you so much for for meeting with me.
The last question I I ask all ofmy guests and I love the answers
because they're all so varied. But what does living beyond the
(40:17):
shadow of doubt mean to you? It means that even when I have
doubts, even when things maybe don't look or feel the way that
I would have expected or wanted,I can still choose joy.
Absolutely you can, yeah. To me, a shadow being there
(40:40):
obviously implies that there's light, right?
That you have to have them both.Yes.
Well, and that's very much in like the Taoist teachings when
we talk about like Tantra and different things, which I do a
lot as a sex code, right, all about.
OK, we need to talk. Yeah, right.
(41:00):
But it's all. Really.
It's all about in Tantra, it's about that we, every single one
of us has dark and light. We were created that way.
You think about like yin Yang all.
That kind of stuff, right to masculine.
We all have that within us, and in order to have light, we have
(41:21):
to embrace the dark. We have to, right?
There'd be no point of comparison or no point of
contrast. No.
And we have, we know that there is, there is contrast, there is
opposites in everything. And that is a wonderful and
necessary part of human experience.
(41:42):
Absolutely. And we can't.
We can't shine. We can't embrace that light
unless we also embrace that dark.
Yeah, I believe it's that push and pull energy that naturally
exists when you do have opposites.
That's what propels us forward. That's the only thing that
creates change, that fuels progress.
(42:03):
So awesome. Oh my goodness.
I love conversations like this. So just a few for fun questions
that I'm going to throw out to you so our listeners can get to
know you. Tell us your favorite book or if
that stresses you out. Favorite book because some
people are like how do I choose?Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a huge
(42:26):
reader. I read probably close to 100
books a year. So I have lots of, lots of
favorite books. But I would say one of my
favorite books is called Secretsof a Charmed Life.
It's a book by an author named Susan Meisner.
She's a pastor's wife, so she writes these really beautiful
historical fiction books that are super clean.
(42:49):
Actually, I read a lot of smuttybooks too.
That's OK, but but. My gosh, Amanda, I love you.
But I I love historical fiction.I love learning about different
times in history. And she writes, she usually
writes things from a dual perspective.
And this book is about two sisters who live through World
(43:13):
War 2 and the London Blitz and their experience there.
And so when I went to London a few years ago, I got to
experience some of the places. And then half the book is set in
the Cotswolds. And I went to the Cotswolds and
I was on Facebook Messenger withthe author.
And she was like, OK, to go downthis road and turn here.
And this is the cottage that I based it on.
(43:33):
So cool. It's really one of my favorite
book. It's a lovely story and and it
really, it taught me a lot aboutthe culture and what happened
during that time. And so I love any.
I love historical fiction. Yeah, it's fun.
I love all those areas you're talking about.
Tell us, are you an introvert oran extrovert?
I would probably have always said I'm an extrovert and I
(43:56):
think I am, but I find the olderI get the more introverted I am.
You know, that's funny because that's fairly common.
I love that. I think part of it is I'm just
more at peace with myself. Yeah, and the more you cultivate
that relationship with self and enjoy being with yourself.
Yeah. Yeah.
(44:18):
OK. Tell us your favorite artist.
My. Favorite artist like you choose?
Like painting artist. Yeah, go for it.
Yeah. I I I love Monet's watercolors.
Yes, me too. I think they're so beautiful.
Yeah, you're a Monet girl. I can tell.
(44:38):
Are you a night owl or a morninglark?
Am I what? A night owl or a morning lark?
Neither. I think that's how I could
describe myself. The old right?
I mean like I've in when I was younger, probably more of a
night owl. I'm out but I'm a big sleeper so
(45:00):
I like now my kids are older andI don't have to get up with them
in the mornings anymore. I I'm usually don't get out of
bed until well after 8:00 and then I'm usually in bed by like
9930. I feel you, I feel your sister.
OK, tell us your celebrity crush.
If you have one, I really like David Boreana.
(45:23):
That's a good one. Yeah, he's probably my favorite.
He's probably. Awesome.
Do you do still or carbonated water, diet soda or some other
fun beverage so. I drink water with some sort of
citrus in it. All I ever drink that's scummy
so I get. Kidney stones.
So I gave up soda and yeah. And the citrus helps with my
(45:49):
kidney stones, so it's water. There you go, very healthy and
then finally the furthest place that you have travelled.
The furthest place, probably Italy, in Italy in April.
One day. One day.
So tell our listeners about any offers that you might have or if
(46:11):
they have questions and want to reach out to you just how they
are able to do all of those things.
Yes. So my website is just my name,
amandalouder.com, and on there there's lots of information
about coaching with me as an individual or as a couple.
I also have a membership for women.
So that's a. Pretty low price option for some
(46:32):
people if they like that option.I do occasionally have different
events. I do retreats for couples and
women. Right now I'm in the middle of
it so it's not open, but you canget on the waiting list for my
ex when I'm doing a three-week live course for couples.
So where they can come, OK on Monday nights from 7:00 to 9:00
PM and they come and I teach andthen we coach and it.
(46:54):
That's awesome. When you say live, do you mean
virtually live or in person? Virtually on Zoom Virtually,
yeah, but it's like not just recorded or something.
It's like they're coming live. So real time.
Yeah, real time. And then I have a podcast called
Sex for Saints. There's almost 400 episodes, so
it's. Congrats, that is quite the
(47:17):
accomplishment. I hit 200 earlier this year.
It is a lot of work. So yes, I have.
Good for you. An episode every single Friday
since 2018. So it's been a long time.
And then on Instagram, I'm Christian.
Sex coach is my handle. OK, great.
Well I will make sure and include all of that in the show
(47:39):
notes and on some social media posts as well.
Amanda, it has been wonderful, so informative and so fun.
Thank you for being here today. Thank you for having me, Megan.
Absolutely, Writer, teacher, author, Mormon scholar and
founder of dialogue journal Eugene England said.
(48:01):
My faith encourages my curiosityand awe, thrusts me out into
relationship with all creation, and encourages me to enter into
dialogue. As a proud member of the
Dialogue Podcast Network, my hope is that Living Beyond the
Shadow of Doubt podcast is an extension of that vision.
(48:30):
Hopeful Spaces is a Dallas Hope Charities component of Hopeful
Discussions. Sponsored by Mercedes-Benz
Financial Services USA. It's a free monthly parent, ally
or caregiver support group facilitated by
megan.skidmorecoachingemailchc@dallashopecharities.orgfor more info.
(48:55):
Visit meganskidmorecoaching.com to find this podcast and
additional free resources, including the link for a
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