October 23, 2024 • 31 mins
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In this episode, we dive deep into two of life's greatest puzzles: the Declaration of Independence and actual puzzles. One thousand pieces of historical text—what could go wrong? Tune in as we discuss the satisfaction and frustration of tackling a thousand-piece replica of America's most famous document.
But don’t worry, it's not just about history; we also explore Barbara’s new album! The title track, "56 Fishes" is inspired by the varied worldviews of the signers of the Declaration. A genre-blending amalgam of neo indie, indie pop, dark alt pop, and industrial pop, the project is coming together one song—and one confusing fish—at a time. Metaphors fly faster than puzzle pieces.
This episode explores the creative mind of an artist trying to solve much bigger puzzles in life.
Whether you’re into puzzles, music, or if you just want to know why fish are schooling with the Founding Fathers, this episode is the ride you didn’t know you needed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Barbara (00:03):
my puzzle, the declaration of independence
puzzle.
I don't like especially thatcome on, it's a thousand piece.
Teja (00:11):
Puzzle this, oh my god I I'm so triggered no, oh, my
goodness not by the topic, Imean maybe I am.
Barbara (00:18):
I mean okay it's the declaration of independence I
know and it's all like.
It looks like.
It's all written out in thelittle script.
Teja (00:25):
Have you read the whole thing?
Barbara (00:26):
And it's I have.
You've read the whole in, in.
I haven't memorized it, but Ihave read the whole thing.
Yes, Wow.
Okay, well, I've also read theconstitution and the old
articles of the Confederacy.
Teja (00:39):
Have you read all the amendments?
Barbara (00:45):
Yes, I have read all the amendments again.
I don't have it memorized, butI have read it all, actually a
couple of times each.
Teja (00:48):
Wow, yes, I'm impressed.
I why did I not know this aboutyou?
You know that I developed thisinterest in early american
history yes, actually you have,yes, and I just read book after
book and get more and morefascinated Wow.
I do Well in terms of puzzles.
(01:08):
I just so much of my day.
So an example is that I'm aneditor.
Barbara (01:13):
Yes, so this should be easy for you.
Teja (01:18):
The podcast we talked about last week, uh-huh, guess
how many edits there are in,like a 35-minute episode Six
Okay, I'm just kidding.
So puzzles are puzzling.
Barbara (01:35):
Yeah, but this is the Declaration of Independence.
All the little words.
Someday I'll finish it.
It's hard, it's hard.
Teja (01:44):
I know, but what is is?
Does it calm you doing puzzles?
Barbara (01:48):
actually I can get into a flow state I see, I see, I
cannot, I get aggravated, oh but.
Teja (01:55):
I I also.
It's like working yeah, well,not to me no, I know, I know and
I and I I, I, I love that aboutyou, that you like the
declaration of Independence andyou've memorized it.
I have not memorized it.
Barbara (02:10):
I have not memorized it , but I am working on a
1,000-piece puzzle that is areplica of the Declaration of
Independence.
Teja (02:21):
Well, do you bring all of that into everything?
Like like how do you carry thataround with you?
Barbara (02:29):
like how do I carry it?
Well, you know, I have a puzzleboard yeah, and not being more,
oh we're, oh, metaphoricalsymbolism symbolism.
Well, this was a one.
I see where you're going withthis.
I see I see you.
(02:49):
I see you and where you'regoing, and I like it.
Teja (02:57):
You have.
You spend so much time.
The last episode.
You said a lot going on in thatlittle brain there.
Barbara (03:11):
Right, but I mean you too, oh yeah, you've got a lot
of stuff going on in that brainhigh maintenance mental status,
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, say thatagain.
Teja (03:16):
What is it?
High maintenance mental statusyes, uh, speaking of high
maintenance.
What?
What do you do with all that?
All the stuff in my headbecause you're a writer, you're
a poet, you're a singer, you'rean actress, you are did I say,
(03:37):
songwriter renaissance woman.
Barbara (03:41):
Well, so yes, I am recording an album.
Teja (03:48):
And you're also a geek, so you know how to do this like
technically.
Barbara (03:51):
Well, I mean sort of I'm not the best technical
person, but yes, the connectionhere for all of the listeners
who are not privy to theDeclaration of Independence
puzzle, that is actually inprocess.
Teja (04:07):
You know, the way you moved your hand just now was
kind of like when you'rescratching records.
Barbara (04:14):
Declaration of Independence In a bit, in a bit
In a bit.
Yeah, is my song 56 Fishes.
Teja (04:20):
So tell me about that.
You told me a long time ago,but I don't remember the details
.
Why fishes and why 56?
Barbara (04:29):
Well, you know how we talked about my brain, yeah, so
I just got this idea one dayabout the way fish school
together, but they're all alsoseparate.
Teja (04:51):
and then I sort of started putting why are you squirming
while you're talking together?
Barbara (04:59):
because I'm I'm trying to figure out how I got there,
like I know where I ended up,but you know how, when you're
driving and all of a sudden youget home and you're like, oh
wait, which route did I take?
Because you don't remember evenhow you got there.
That's kind of where I am,because what it is is it's the
56 fishes represent the signersof the Declaration of
(05:21):
Independence.
Teja (05:23):
There were 50.
So I didn't grow up in the US.
I never studied you know UShistory really, so I don't
really know much about that butthere were 56 people who signed
the Declaration of Independence.
Barbara (05:34):
Most of the signers voted in favor, so this is
interesting.
Teja (05:38):
Wait, they were.
I see, Okay, they weren't justsigning it, they were voting on
it.
Barbara (05:42):
Well, so here's the thing.
Teja (05:45):
Oh no.
Barbara (05:45):
Yeah, and I get so interested in this and excited
about it because then eventuallypeople had to sign it over time
and so there were eventually 56people who signed it.
Brain is that my brain willsometimes put pieces together
(06:10):
that I don't remember.
I remember until then Iremember I remember it surfaces
yeah kind of floats to thesurface, but those would be dead
fish.
Well, no fish also come to thesurface, although all of the
signers of the declaration ofindependence have passed, so
maybe that's apt as well, butyeah, so this song 56 Fishes,
(06:30):
started off really my trektowards my new album which I'm
putting together now.
Teja (06:38):
As a poet, you also write symbolically right, yes also
write symbolically, right?
So you find, you find phrasesor words or passages that have
some kind of a you knowsuggestion to actually mean
something else, right?
So you so 56.
And then you said you said that, uh, fish school together, but
(07:02):
they're also independent, whichis very true.
That's actually how diversityand evolution works.
Barbara (07:06):
Right.
But my point with the song isthat through the lens of history
, we often see the founders ofthe country as just all one
thing because it's the founders,right, it's like a thing like a
school school of fish.
But when you start readingamerican history, you start
(07:29):
reading biographies and thingslike that about these people.
You realize how unique anddifferent each of them really
was so each of them has thislike each of them is part of
what became america and drovehow the country was created.
But each of them is part of whatbecame America and drove how
the country was created.
But each of them also had theirown thoughts and their own
(07:52):
ideas about what direction theywanted things to go, and so this
song is about this.
It's like a school, but they'reall separate and, in a way,
there was actually a lot of likedisagreement and negotiation.
Again, everybody thinks that,oh, we just stepped right from
(08:12):
colony to Revolutionary War, toAmerica as we know it today, and
the story is much moreinteresting than that.
Teja (08:22):
Birds are the same, you know, or, or bees, or well, now
you're getting into the birdsand the bees.
Barbara (08:28):
Oh, that is not where my album goes that's where I
start, oh anyway but no, so soum, but why specifically fish?
Teja (08:38):
because and isn't the plural of fish, fish?
Barbara (08:42):
it is it's called 56 fishes, fishes which actually is
somewhat accepted, believe itor not there is a there is a, a
world view that says fishes isokay fishes.
It's not entirely properenglish.
But okay there's there.
I've heard people argue thepoint and my point is really
(09:03):
that's what my brain gave me.
Teja (09:07):
So 56 fishes, because you just fish.
I mean, it could have beenanything.
It could have been bats, itcould have been birds.
Barbara (09:15):
Yeah, but try putting that in a song.
That's just a little moredifficult.
Teja (09:20):
True, yeah, especially with bats.
Barbara (09:22):
Because this is like 56 fishes.
Oh I see, okay.
True, yeah, especially withbats.
Because this is like 56 fishes.
Oh I see, like okay.
And when you're songwriting,you need to sometimes play
around with the words to makethem work in terms of the rhythm
and even the speech sounds.
Sometimes you, you pick a wordand it's like, yeah, this is
what I mean.
But then you say the phrase oryou sing the phrase and wait,
(09:44):
that doesn't sound good togetherlike the, the consonants sort
of get in the way of each otheror something, and then you have
to kind of, what's another way?
Teja (09:54):
I can say this that would serve both the message and the
music I was listening to this,uh, watching this short
interview with paul simon ofsimon and golf, uh, garfunkel,
uh, about the creation of hissong graceland and this is, of
course, much later.
Must must have been a coupleyears ago.
They recorded this, but one ofthe things he did talk about
(10:16):
something like that.
Like, I chose this word notbecause it was the first word
that came to mind, but becauseit it had some linguistic, you
know, similarities or a feel tothe next word right, you have to
get into the connotation of theword as well the, the potential
(10:37):
symbolic piece of the word.
Barbara (10:41):
And you know and you're talking about the graceland
album but I was.
You know, I got this from aninterview with pat benatar many,
many years ago that I listenedto, where she was talking about
how sometimes you have to changethe word because as you sing it
you realize there's like toomuch sibilance or there's too
many consonants right next toeach other, or you know
(11:02):
something like that like, eventhough it technically fits the
rhythm, there's some otherelement that makes it not work.
Teja (11:10):
In this case, what is sibilance?
Barbara (11:13):
Sibilance.
It's those sounds that.
Teja (11:16):
Can you have twin sibilance?
Barbara (11:20):
That would be siblings.
Yeah, yeah, f's and S's andS-H's and that kind of thing.
There's siblings.
Teja (11:30):
I never even actually thought about siblings, that
being a consideration even likewhen you're singing.
Certain vowels are hard to singon certain pitches what's more
important than if you find aword that rhymes really well or
a word that almost rhymes butsounds better?
Barbara (11:52):
people do what are called close rhymes all the time
, which is where I mean what'soften most important is the
vowel that the vowel either isor can sound the same meaning
like.
If you change the pronunciationa little bit, then all of a
sudden it was all right, yeah oh, interesting okay and then you
know, sometimes it doesn't thenmatter as much what consonant
(12:15):
comes after it.
It depends on the context.
Teja (12:18):
I think you mentioned this a while ago.
So that's like when a singermight not emphasize the ending
consonant of a word, becauseit's the vowel that really
carries the.
Barbara (12:34):
Right, and especially in pop and rock music and my
music is more like in the realmof pop, electronica.
So in musical theater there's alot more consonants, at least
traditional musical theater.
In classical music there's away that you need to do the
vowels and the consonants,whereas contemporary, like pop
(12:57):
and rock and jazz and thingslike that, there's just a lot
more variability in terms of thevowels and how you choose to
use the consonants and thingswould you call it poptronica?
Poptronica, I don't.
Teja (13:10):
I don't know, maybe yeah, you can call it Poptronica,
Start a whole new genre.
That's your thing, man, but sookay.
So you're so 60, 50, 56 Fishes.
Was it the impetus for yourcurrent body of work?
Barbara (13:33):
Well.
I had like a couple of othersongs kind of half started, and
but once I really dug into thatsong and got that one going, I
was like, oh wait, now I've gotthese other pieces.
And that kind of got me rollinguntil I had seven songs that I
was like, oh yeah, this is, thisis coming together.
So the way I work is I kind ofstart with a concept and then I
(13:59):
make what's called thecomposition version of the song.
Teja (14:03):
What does that mean so?
Barbara (14:03):
I'm working with a digital audio workstation, what
in the biz is called a DAW, daw,it's a DAW.
Teja (14:10):
It's a.
Barbara (14:11):
DAW so.
Teja (14:13):
Snoop DAW.
Barbara (14:14):
If you want to, Okay.
No, that was see, that was aclose rhyme oh wow, I succeeded
so I might have all the lyricswritten or I might not.
I might just have certain keystanzas written and then I am
(14:34):
creating the melody and I'm andthe rhythms and building it
actually inside of the DAW.
So I don't a lot of songwritersat first they like map it out
first, but I'm my songs are alot more organic, where I'm kind
of putting pieces together andmoving them around and choosing
instruments.
Teja (14:54):
This goes back to the puzzle, the puzzle stuff.
See, that's the thing, yeah,right.
Barbara (14:59):
So I build my songs more like a puzzle some people
are much more linear.
you know, they write the lyricsfirst, and then the melody and
then the chords, and I'm kind ofall over the place, to tell you
the truth.
And then I finally get to aplace where I'm like okay, this
is the composition version,meaning that it is written, the
(15:20):
parts are all there.
I've got what you call scratchvocals in there, which I've
recorded in, but it's not in asoundproof booth or anything
like that, and it's not repeateduntil it's perfect.
It's not doubled.
There's a lot of stuff missingbut it at least gets the vocals
there.
It's not doubled, there's a lotof stuff missing, but it at
least gets the vocals there.
I build out the harmonies doscratch harmonies so that then
(15:41):
you can hear the whole thing.
And that's the compositionversion.
Teja (15:47):
And so let's say you-.
Barbara (15:49):
It's composed it's composed.
Teja (15:50):
So let's say, you use that process to create, or at least
begin creating, and theiterations that come after that,
56 fishes right.
So you've got the, you get more, you got the melody.
You may even make a change toword here and there, depending
on what what you're finding.
so you're kind of fluid aboutthat, the uh, uh, using, using
(16:12):
your software, your hardware,and you record, you test it a
few times and then you've got abasic outline for what it's
going to sound like.
You haven't mixed it yet, butthen, like, does that inspire
other similar stories?
By the story, by the words orthe?
(16:34):
Ideas they're supposed to pushforward, or is it more the
sounds that push your new ideasforward?
How do you fit all the othersongs into?
Because you're working on analbum right.
Barbara (16:47):
Yeah, and so I mean I think I kind of get a vibe going
.
There's some similarity to thevibe that I had on my last EP.
So I put together four songs afew years ago um, on the EP in
hiding and my artists my musicalartist name is Morgan Duran, so
(17:07):
it's sort of like as if it werea band, right, but it's really
just me.
But, um, yeah, so Morgan Duranand it's in hiding and I have
four songs and they havesimilarities in that they're
electronically based and thingslike that.
(17:28):
But there's some differencestoo with this album, in that In
Hiding the songs are somewhatlonger.
For example, they're all overfour minutes long, I think, and
some of them are over four and ahalf minutes long, which, in
the radio world, is too long.
I mean, it's not meatloaf oranything, but it's apparently
(17:50):
still too long.
Teja (17:52):
James Joyce, the album.
Barbara (17:55):
Okay, no, punctuation.
No, so Wouldn't that be great.
James Joyce, the album Okay, no, punctuation.
No, so Wouldn't that be great.
Teja (18:01):
James Joyce, the opera oh.
Barbara (18:04):
I'm sure someone's done it somewhere.
Teja (18:06):
Probably Kabuki or no.
Barbara (18:08):
It's in Norway.
Teja (18:10):
I don't know why.
It'd be like 18 years, oh mygoodness, but this album is
shorter.
Barbara (18:18):
In fact, very few of the songs, if any, break three
minutes.
It's very bizarre.
So like I don't know whatthat's all about, and also I
have more words in this album,so last time I was really
experimenting with the how can Itell a story with few words?
Teja (18:40):
Oh.
Barbara (18:46):
This time though the stories just had more words and
again I would love to say that,oh, I totally planned it that
way, but I just had more to saythis time.
And the songs have some kind ofmission, or are they in some way
socially driven or thesecommentary on humanity this
(19:09):
album is all about relationshipsoh, I see I've discovered, but
again I discover that after thefact like critical of our
relationship uh, actually thereis a song about you is there a
song called doghouse no, there'sa song about you there really
is, yeah, me well, us it'scalled.
Teja (19:29):
I see wolves that doesn't sound good well what it is.
Barbara (19:34):
Oh no, here we go.
So I am usually the DebbieDowner, I'm usually the cynic I
it.
So I am the one that whensomeone tries to like sell me
something and I'm on, no, andyou know, I'm like I, just I I.
It takes me a long time totrust people, whereas you tend
(19:58):
to see the good in people.
I try.
Teja (20:02):
Yeah.
And so it's a song about howUnless you cross me.
Barbara (20:06):
I see wolves.
Teja (20:08):
I see.
Barbara (20:09):
And you see light, I see light.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Teja (20:13):
Well, wolves howl at the light.
Barbara (20:15):
Yeah, but I see wolves, Okay.
I see shadows, oh yeah, but Isee wolves Okay.
I see shadows.
Teja (20:20):
Oh, fascinating, I see dark.
Barbara (20:22):
I see malice.
You see light.
That's part of the lyric forthat song.
I see okay, or I say he seeslight is what I say yeah, so
there's no.
Teja (20:35):
and, by the way, I'm pretty secure in that.
I'm not sure if I always do,and I appreciate that you do
much more than me.
Barbara (20:46):
Okay, all right.
Teja (20:48):
Is that story?
Is that song in any way relatedto 56 Fishes and the other?
Barbara (20:55):
songs.
They're all about differentkinds of relationships, right?
So 56 fishes is a relationshipsong oh, I mean that it's these
people came together to dosomething, and because it's
really and actually that's goingto be the title song of the
album, because it's really aboutall of us 56 fishes is about
(21:16):
all of our relationships to eachother.
Teja (21:19):
I really like that a lot.
I don't think you've everexplained that part to me.
That's fascinating.
Barbara (21:23):
Because I just figured it out.
Teja (21:26):
Well, no, I mean, it's in there in your very busy brain.
Busy busy busy, but thisprobably the truth is that that
has been there.
Barbara (21:34):
Yeah, so impacts that's that's everybody in all of us,
right, and sort of where we camefrom, right.
But there's this song that Ijust told you about I see wolves
.
There's, um, a song about afamily relationship where things
are very tense and it's noteven sure if the family members
(22:00):
will stay in touch.
There's a song about my owngrandmother and how I felt like
I never really got to know heras a person because she didn't
reveal much of herself actually.
Yeah, you know when you wouldtalk to her.
(22:21):
There's a song about a personwho starts falling in love with
a sociopath, but then, gets away, and that comes from part of a
true story, not my story, butsomeone else's story.
And then, which one am Imissing?
Teja (22:43):
I don't know, it's a puzzle to me.
Barbara (22:47):
It's a puzzle.
Teja (22:48):
What's next for you?
Have you finished?
How many songs in the albumhave you finished?
Barbara (22:55):
And I have finished my composition versions, so now
comes the official.
Teja (23:00):
So just as a reminder, composition version means that-.
Barbara (23:03):
I've written it.
It's in the digital audioworkstation in its full form in
terms of the instruments arethere, the scratch vocals are
there, the order is set, themeasures are set, everything
Like everything's set and it'sready to be actually what you
might say produced.
Teja (23:19):
So it's like a rough cut.
It's a rough draft yeah andthat you know you will be
replacing elements of it,including your voice, because
you'll be singing.
I'll be.
Barbara (23:30):
I'll be re-singing the whole thing, yeah, so right now,
where we are in the process isthat I am working with my
production and songwriter, buddyum, because actually there's
two songs we wrote together thataren't on this album that we'll
be releasing sometime aroundthe same time, like we're
(23:51):
working it in the releaseschedule, um, so we're working
together to he's puttingtogether the tracks, like taking
some of the instruments I had,for example, and saying what if
we did this instrument instead?
And usually what he'ssuggesting is just a much better
quality version of thatinstrument than I have.
(24:13):
Or, you know, he also canlisten to it and say, oh well,
here's one that has like adarker tone versus a brighter
tone.
Which one were you going for?
Because, like, the one I pickedis like in the middle you know,
he's like why don't we pick oneor the other, you know?
and so then it'll be the samething that I wrote, but it's
just, we've put a differentelectronic instrument on it, you
(24:35):
know, um, and then I have tolike get him certain information
about it at the same, becauseon the 22nd, uh, I'm flying to
Los Angeles and we're going tospend four days in the studio
recording and that's where I'llget my final vocals in.
Teja (24:53):
And then so okay, so you're, so you're recording it,
then you get your final vocalsin and then and I'm doing some
coaching, so I'm having you know, usually I'm doing some
coaching.
Barbara (25:02):
So I'm having so, you know, usually I'm giving the
coaching right but I'm havingsome coaching with, uh, noelle
Smith, who I've worked with on anumber of projects with you
know, as a singing teacher, andso I'm super excited to be
working with her and so she'skind of she's an electronic
artist as well.
She's sung on like video gamesand things like that and so, um,
(25:24):
you know, she's kind of you cannever hear yourself the way you
need to to like get to whereyou want to go.
So she's kind of listening andhelping me find the right vocal
vibe for where I want to go withit and then what happens after
that?
Teja (25:39):
like he'll, he'll, mix he'll.
Barbara (25:42):
Yeah, so we'll record it and he'll be then.
That's the thing you talkedabout the technology.
He's can drive all thetechnology, and all I have to
think about is what I'm singing.
That makes sense, right,because you don't want to be
distracted with all the otherstuff but then, yeah, he does
something called mixing, whichfor people who aren't familiar,
(26:03):
it means taking now everythingthat's recorded and for one
thing, you put it in space, likea lot of times you don't think
about this.
You have headphones on, forexample, and if you close your
eyes you can almost visualizethe singer front and in the
middle, almost visualize thesinger front and in the middle,
(26:26):
and you can visualize a sound onthe you know right quote back
of the stage or the left frontof the stage, like if you close
your eyes and listen, you'llrealize that the way they've
mixed it is that you canactually get a sense of these
instruments happening in space,and so there's a lot of things
that they do to make that happenand then to blend it with the
voice and make sure that there'sthe right amount of everything
(26:49):
so everything sounds like afinished product instead of just
pieces thrown together and likehalf, interfering with each
other.
Teja (26:59):
Okay.
Barbara (27:01):
So that he'll do.
And then the last step afterthat is something called
mastering, which is where youthrow it through a process that
I don't completely understand,but makes it work, regardless of
what kind of listeningsituation you're in.
So the mastering is what makesit, so I can take this recording
(27:23):
and I can play it in my car, orI can play it in my earbuds, or
I can play it on speakers in aroom and it's still gonna sound
good.
Teja (27:31):
Sound good, it'll still be .
You'll have seven songs in thecan in the case it well, in the
music industry this is called inthe can.
No, I don't know, that's just afilm term well, it's a film
term but, uh, seven songs forthat album.
Barbara (27:42):
And then we have the two songs, the two independent
songs that Will and I didtogether, and so we're going to
then figure out what the releaseschedule is.
So no release date yet.
For anyone who is interested inhearing what I did before on In
Hiding, that's on Spotify,apple Music, all the places, as
(28:06):
well as Bandcamp, you can.
If you want a copy to download,you can get it on Bandcamp, and
it's Morgan Duran is my bandname, if you will my band name
is Morgan.
Duran excellent.
I will admit that the Durancomes from the fact that I love
(28:27):
Duran Duran.
Everyone knows it comes fromthat, I know.
Teja (28:31):
I know Well.
Barbara (28:33):
It's a not so well kept secret.
Teja (28:36):
No, yes, not as hungry as the wolf.
Barbara (28:41):
Ah, I see wolves.
Teja (28:43):
That's what I'm saying, oh my gosh, that's what I'm saying
, oh my gosh, that's what I'msaying.
Okay, that's where it comes fromit goes deeper than we ever
knew than we ever knew, knew,knew well, this was really
fascinating.
I I um Fascinating, I I umbeing in production myself.
(29:03):
There's so many areas that Idon't know.
I just I'm just grateful thatthat you can share some of the
complexities behind even whatgoes on in what most people know
to be common.
It's like like like a TaylorSwift album album, like it's not
just that, she's, she does that, and then it just goes, that's
(29:25):
this on steroids.
Barbara (29:27):
I mean it's like right, yeah, that's like serious.
So take what I just told youand then like, amplify that
right but, but, but your processis the same the process is the
same.
Teja (29:40):
That's what I'm saying is saying is that you could take a
minute to write a song.
You could take a year to writea song.
You could be inspired bysomething that you see on a
table.
You could be inspired bysomething that just you woke up
with from a dream.
Barbara (29:55):
I once wrote a song about a misreading of somebody's
T-shirt in a crowd.
Teja (30:02):
See, it's your busy brain, yeah, brain, yeah.
Barbara (30:05):
you got a lot of stuff going on there I saw these words
on a t-shirt and I thought itsaid one thing, and I got this
whole thing going on in my headthat turned into a song.
Yeah, and that wasn't even whatthe t-shirt said.
I love it.
So again, that's a little lookinto my brain yeah, well,
(30:27):
together there's a lot of brainstuff going on.
Oh yeah, there's brain stuff,we got brains all over the place
.
Teja (30:32):
We got brain stuff all over the place.
Brains, you know, zombies,would I think.
I have not yet written a songabout zombies hmm well so you
never know, maybe that'll be thenext theme 56 zombies.
Barbara (30:48):
No, it's 56 fishes.
Alright, and someday everyonewill get to hear it Someday soon
.
Teja (30:54):
Excellent, can't wait.
Barbara (30:55):
Yay, alright.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, andeverything else that can be and
possibly is.
Teja (31:06):
Live forever.
Barbara (31:08):
At least live forward.
Teja (31:12):
Bye, bye.
my puzzle, the declaration of independence
puzzle.
I don't like especially thatcome on, it's a thousand piece.
Teja (00:11):
Puzzle this, oh my god I I'm so triggered no, oh, my
goodness not by the topic, Imean maybe I am.
Barbara (00:18):
I mean okay it's the declaration of independence I
know and it's all like.
It looks like.
It's all written out in thelittle script.
Teja (00:25):
Have you read the whole thing?
Barbara (00:26):
And it's I have.
You've read the whole in, in.
I haven't memorized it, but Ihave read the whole thing.
Yes, Wow.
Okay, well, I've also read theconstitution and the old
articles of the Confederacy.
Teja (00:39):
Have you read all the amendments?
Barbara (00:45):
Yes, I have read all the amendments again.
I don't have it memorized, butI have read it all, actually a
couple of times each.
Teja (00:48):
Wow, yes, I'm impressed.
I why did I not know this aboutyou?
You know that I developed thisinterest in early american
history yes, actually you have,yes, and I just read book after
book and get more and morefascinated Wow.
I do Well in terms of puzzles.
(01:08):
I just so much of my day.
So an example is that I'm aneditor.
Barbara (01:13):
Yes, so this should be easy for you.
Teja (01:18):
The podcast we talked about last week, uh-huh, guess
how many edits there are in,like a 35-minute episode Six
Okay, I'm just kidding.
So puzzles are puzzling.
Barbara (01:35):
Yeah, but this is the Declaration of Independence.
All the little words.
Someday I'll finish it.
It's hard, it's hard.
Teja (01:44):
I know, but what is is?
Does it calm you doing puzzles?
Barbara (01:48):
actually I can get into a flow state I see, I see, I
cannot, I get aggravated, oh but.
Teja (01:55):
I I also.
It's like working yeah, well,not to me no, I know, I know and
I and I I, I, I love that aboutyou, that you like the
declaration of Independence andyou've memorized it.
I have not memorized it.
Barbara (02:10):
I have not memorized it , but I am working on a
1,000-piece puzzle that is areplica of the Declaration of
Independence.
Teja (02:21):
Well, do you bring all of that into everything?
Like like how do you carry thataround with you?
Barbara (02:29):
like how do I carry it?
Well, you know, I have a puzzleboard yeah, and not being more,
oh we're, oh, metaphoricalsymbolism symbolism.
Well, this was a one.
I see where you're going withthis.
I see I see you.
(02:49):
I see you and where you'regoing, and I like it.
Teja (02:57):
You have.
You spend so much time.
The last episode.
You said a lot going on in thatlittle brain there.
Barbara (03:11):
Right, but I mean you too, oh yeah, you've got a lot
of stuff going on in that brainhigh maintenance mental status,
yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, say thatagain.
Teja (03:16):
What is it?
High maintenance mental statusyes, uh, speaking of high
maintenance.
What?
What do you do with all that?
All the stuff in my headbecause you're a writer, you're
a poet, you're a singer, you'rean actress, you are did I say,
(03:37):
songwriter renaissance woman.
Barbara (03:41):
Well, so yes, I am recording an album.
Teja (03:48):
And you're also a geek, so you know how to do this like
technically.
Barbara (03:51):
Well, I mean sort of I'm not the best technical
person, but yes, the connectionhere for all of the listeners
who are not privy to theDeclaration of Independence
puzzle, that is actually inprocess.
Teja (04:07):
You know, the way you moved your hand just now was
kind of like when you'rescratching records.
Barbara (04:14):
Declaration of Independence In a bit, in a bit
In a bit.
Yeah, is my song 56 Fishes.
Teja (04:20):
So tell me about that.
You told me a long time ago,but I don't remember the details
.
Why fishes and why 56?
Barbara (04:29):
Well, you know how we talked about my brain, yeah, so
I just got this idea one dayabout the way fish school
together, but they're all alsoseparate.
Teja (04:51):
and then I sort of started putting why are you squirming
while you're talking together?
Barbara (04:59):
because I'm I'm trying to figure out how I got there,
like I know where I ended up,but you know how, when you're
driving and all of a sudden youget home and you're like, oh
wait, which route did I take?
Because you don't remember evenhow you got there.
That's kind of where I am,because what it is is it's the
56 fishes represent the signersof the Declaration of
(05:21):
Independence.
Teja (05:23):
There were 50.
So I didn't grow up in the US.
I never studied you know UShistory really, so I don't
really know much about that butthere were 56 people who signed
the Declaration of Independence.
Barbara (05:34):
Most of the signers voted in favor, so this is
interesting.
Teja (05:38):
Wait, they were.
I see, Okay, they weren't justsigning it, they were voting on
it.
Barbara (05:42):
Well, so here's the thing.
Teja (05:45):
Oh no.
Barbara (05:45):
Yeah, and I get so interested in this and excited
about it because then eventuallypeople had to sign it over time
and so there were eventually 56people who signed it.
Brain is that my brain willsometimes put pieces together
(06:10):
that I don't remember.
I remember until then Iremember I remember it surfaces
yeah kind of floats to thesurface, but those would be dead
fish.
Well, no fish also come to thesurface, although all of the
signers of the declaration ofindependence have passed, so
maybe that's apt as well, butyeah, so this song 56 Fishes,
(06:30):
started off really my trektowards my new album which I'm
putting together now.
Teja (06:38):
As a poet, you also write symbolically right, yes also
write symbolically, right?
So you find, you find phrasesor words or passages that have
some kind of a you knowsuggestion to actually mean
something else, right?
So you so 56.
And then you said you said that, uh, fish school together, but
(07:02):
they're also independent, whichis very true.
That's actually how diversityand evolution works.
Barbara (07:06):
Right.
But my point with the song isthat through the lens of history
, we often see the founders ofthe country as just all one
thing because it's the founders,right, it's like a thing like a
school school of fish.
But when you start readingamerican history, you start
(07:29):
reading biographies and thingslike that about these people.
You realize how unique anddifferent each of them really
was so each of them has thislike each of them is part of
what became america and drovehow the country was created.
But each of them is part of whatbecame America and drove how
the country was created.
But each of them also had theirown thoughts and their own
(07:52):
ideas about what direction theywanted things to go, and so this
song is about this.
It's like a school, but they'reall separate and, in a way,
there was actually a lot of likedisagreement and negotiation.
Again, everybody thinks that,oh, we just stepped right from
(08:12):
colony to Revolutionary War, toAmerica as we know it today, and
the story is much moreinteresting than that.
Teja (08:22):
Birds are the same, you know, or, or bees, or well, now
you're getting into the birdsand the bees.
Barbara (08:28):
Oh, that is not where my album goes that's where I
start, oh anyway but no, so soum, but why specifically fish?
Teja (08:38):
because and isn't the plural of fish, fish?
Barbara (08:42):
it is it's called 56 fishes, fishes which actually is
somewhat accepted, believe itor not there is a there is a, a
world view that says fishes isokay fishes.
It's not entirely properenglish.
But okay there's there.
I've heard people argue thepoint and my point is really
(09:03):
that's what my brain gave me.
Teja (09:07):
So 56 fishes, because you just fish.
I mean, it could have beenanything.
It could have been bats, itcould have been birds.
Barbara (09:15):
Yeah, but try putting that in a song.
That's just a little moredifficult.
Teja (09:20):
True, yeah, especially with bats.
Barbara (09:22):
Because this is like 56 fishes.
Oh I see, okay.
True, yeah, especially withbats.
Because this is like 56 fishes.
Oh I see, like okay.
And when you're songwriting,you need to sometimes play
around with the words to makethem work in terms of the rhythm
and even the speech sounds.
Sometimes you, you pick a wordand it's like, yeah, this is
what I mean.
But then you say the phrase oryou sing the phrase and wait,
(09:44):
that doesn't sound good togetherlike the, the consonants sort
of get in the way of each otheror something, and then you have
to kind of, what's another way?
Teja (09:54):
I can say this that would serve both the message and the
music I was listening to this,uh, watching this short
interview with paul simon ofsimon and golf, uh, garfunkel,
uh, about the creation of hissong graceland and this is, of
course, much later.
Must must have been a coupleyears ago.
They recorded this, but one ofthe things he did talk about
(10:16):
something like that.
Like, I chose this word notbecause it was the first word
that came to mind, but becauseit it had some linguistic, you
know, similarities or a feel tothe next word right, you have to
get into the connotation of theword as well the, the potential
(10:37):
symbolic piece of the word.
Barbara (10:41):
And you know and you're talking about the graceland
album but I was.
You know, I got this from aninterview with pat benatar many,
many years ago that I listenedto, where she was talking about
how sometimes you have to changethe word because as you sing it
you realize there's like toomuch sibilance or there's too
many consonants right next toeach other, or you know
(11:02):
something like that like, eventhough it technically fits the
rhythm, there's some otherelement that makes it not work.
Teja (11:10):
In this case, what is sibilance?
Barbara (11:13):
Sibilance.
It's those sounds that.
Teja (11:16):
Can you have twin sibilance?
Barbara (11:20):
That would be siblings.
Yeah, yeah, f's and S's andS-H's and that kind of thing.
There's siblings.
Teja (11:30):
I never even actually thought about siblings, that
being a consideration even likewhen you're singing.
Certain vowels are hard to singon certain pitches what's more
important than if you find aword that rhymes really well or
a word that almost rhymes butsounds better?
Barbara (11:52):
people do what are called close rhymes all the time
, which is where I mean what'soften most important is the
vowel that the vowel either isor can sound the same meaning
like.
If you change the pronunciationa little bit, then all of a
sudden it was all right, yeah oh, interesting okay and then you
know, sometimes it doesn't thenmatter as much what consonant
(12:15):
comes after it.
It depends on the context.
Teja (12:18):
I think you mentioned this a while ago.
So that's like when a singermight not emphasize the ending
consonant of a word, becauseit's the vowel that really
carries the.
Barbara (12:34):
Right, and especially in pop and rock music and my
music is more like in the realmof pop, electronica.
So in musical theater there's alot more consonants, at least
traditional musical theater.
In classical music there's away that you need to do the
vowels and the consonants,whereas contemporary, like pop
(12:57):
and rock and jazz and thingslike that, there's just a lot
more variability in terms of thevowels and how you choose to
use the consonants and thingswould you call it poptronica?
Poptronica, I don't.
Teja (13:10):
I don't know, maybe yeah, you can call it Poptronica,
Start a whole new genre.
That's your thing, man, but sookay.
So you're so 60, 50, 56 Fishes.
Was it the impetus for yourcurrent body of work?
Barbara (13:33):
Well.
I had like a couple of othersongs kind of half started, and
but once I really dug into thatsong and got that one going, I
was like, oh wait, now I've gotthese other pieces.
And that kind of got me rollinguntil I had seven songs that I
was like, oh yeah, this is, thisis coming together.
So the way I work is I kind ofstart with a concept and then I
(13:59):
make what's called thecomposition version of the song.
Teja (14:03):
What does that mean so?
Barbara (14:03):
I'm working with a digital audio workstation, what
in the biz is called a DAW, daw,it's a DAW.
Teja (14:10):
It's a.
Barbara (14:11):
DAW so.
Teja (14:13):
Snoop DAW.
Barbara (14:14):
If you want to, Okay.
No, that was see, that was aclose rhyme oh wow, I succeeded
so I might have all the lyricswritten or I might not.
I might just have certain keystanzas written and then I am
(14:34):
creating the melody and I'm andthe rhythms and building it
actually inside of the DAW.
So I don't a lot of songwritersat first they like map it out
first, but I'm my songs are alot more organic, where I'm kind
of putting pieces together andmoving them around and choosing
instruments.
Teja (14:54):
This goes back to the puzzle, the puzzle stuff.
See, that's the thing, yeah,right.
Barbara (14:59):
So I build my songs more like a puzzle some people
are much more linear.
you know, they write the lyricsfirst, and then the melody and
then the chords, and I'm kind ofall over the place, to tell you
the truth.
And then I finally get to aplace where I'm like okay, this
is the composition version,meaning that it is written, the
(15:20):
parts are all there.
I've got what you call scratchvocals in there, which I've
recorded in, but it's not in asoundproof booth or anything
like that, and it's not repeateduntil it's perfect.
It's not doubled.
There's a lot of stuff missingbut it at least gets the vocals
there.
It's not doubled, there's a lotof stuff missing, but it at
least gets the vocals there.
I build out the harmonies doscratch harmonies so that then
(15:41):
you can hear the whole thing.
And that's the compositionversion.
Teja (15:47):
And so let's say you-.
Barbara (15:49):
It's composed it's composed.
Teja (15:50):
So let's say, you use that process to create, or at least
begin creating, and theiterations that come after that,
56 fishes right.
So you've got the, you get more, you got the melody.
You may even make a change toword here and there, depending
on what what you're finding.
so you're kind of fluid aboutthat, the uh, uh, using, using
(16:12):
your software, your hardware,and you record, you test it a
few times and then you've got abasic outline for what it's
going to sound like.
You haven't mixed it yet, butthen, like, does that inspire
other similar stories?
By the story, by the words orthe?
(16:34):
Ideas they're supposed to pushforward, or is it more the
sounds that push your new ideasforward?
How do you fit all the othersongs into?
Because you're working on analbum right.
Barbara (16:47):
Yeah, and so I mean I think I kind of get a vibe going
.
There's some similarity to thevibe that I had on my last EP.
So I put together four songs afew years ago um, on the EP in
hiding and my artists my musicalartist name is Morgan Duran, so
(17:07):
it's sort of like as if it werea band, right, but it's really
just me.
But, um, yeah, so Morgan Duranand it's in hiding and I have
four songs and they havesimilarities in that they're
electronically based and thingslike that.
(17:28):
But there's some differencestoo with this album, in that In
Hiding the songs are somewhatlonger.
For example, they're all overfour minutes long, I think, and
some of them are over four and ahalf minutes long, which, in
the radio world, is too long.
I mean, it's not meatloaf oranything, but it's apparently
(17:50):
still too long.
Teja (17:52):
James Joyce, the album.
Barbara (17:55):
Okay, no, punctuation.
No, so Wouldn't that be great.
James Joyce, the album Okay, no, punctuation.
No, so Wouldn't that be great.
Teja (18:01):
James Joyce, the opera oh.
Barbara (18:04):
I'm sure someone's done it somewhere.
Teja (18:06):
Probably Kabuki or no.
Barbara (18:08):
It's in Norway.
Teja (18:10):
I don't know why.
It'd be like 18 years, oh mygoodness, but this album is
shorter.
Barbara (18:18):
In fact, very few of the songs, if any, break three
minutes.
It's very bizarre.
So like I don't know whatthat's all about, and also I
have more words in this album,so last time I was really
experimenting with the how can Itell a story with few words?
Teja (18:40):
Oh.
Barbara (18:46):
This time though the stories just had more words and
again I would love to say that,oh, I totally planned it that
way, but I just had more to saythis time.
And the songs have some kind ofmission, or are they in some way
socially driven or thesecommentary on humanity this
(19:09):
album is all about relationshipsoh, I see I've discovered, but
again I discover that after thefact like critical of our
relationship uh, actually thereis a song about you is there a
song called doghouse no, there'sa song about you there really
is, yeah, me well, us it'scalled.
Teja (19:29):
I see wolves that doesn't sound good well what it is.
Barbara (19:34):
Oh no, here we go.
So I am usually the DebbieDowner, I'm usually the cynic I
it.
So I am the one that whensomeone tries to like sell me
something and I'm on, no, andyou know, I'm like I, just I I.
It takes me a long time totrust people, whereas you tend
(19:58):
to see the good in people.
I try.
Teja (20:02):
Yeah.
And so it's a song about howUnless you cross me.
Barbara (20:06):
I see wolves.
Teja (20:08):
I see.
Barbara (20:09):
And you see light, I see light.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Teja (20:13):
Well, wolves howl at the light.
Barbara (20:15):
Yeah, but I see wolves, Okay.
I see shadows, oh yeah, but Isee wolves Okay.
I see shadows.
Teja (20:20):
Oh, fascinating, I see dark.
Barbara (20:22):
I see malice.
You see light.
That's part of the lyric forthat song.
I see okay, or I say he seeslight is what I say yeah, so
there's no.
Teja (20:35):
and, by the way, I'm pretty secure in that.
I'm not sure if I always do,and I appreciate that you do
much more than me.
Barbara (20:46):
Okay, all right.
Teja (20:48):
Is that story?
Is that song in any way relatedto 56 Fishes and the other?
Barbara (20:55):
songs.
They're all about differentkinds of relationships, right?
So 56 fishes is a relationshipsong oh, I mean that it's these
people came together to dosomething, and because it's
really and actually that's goingto be the title song of the
album, because it's really aboutall of us 56 fishes is about
(21:16):
all of our relationships to eachother.
Teja (21:19):
I really like that a lot.
I don't think you've everexplained that part to me.
That's fascinating.
Barbara (21:23):
Because I just figured it out.
Teja (21:26):
Well, no, I mean, it's in there in your very busy brain.
Busy busy busy, but thisprobably the truth is that that
has been there.
Barbara (21:34):
Yeah, so impacts that's that's everybody in all of us,
right, and sort of where we camefrom, right.
But there's this song that Ijust told you about I see wolves
.
There's, um, a song about afamily relationship where things
are very tense and it's noteven sure if the family members
(22:00):
will stay in touch.
There's a song about my owngrandmother and how I felt like
I never really got to know heras a person because she didn't
reveal much of herself actually.
Yeah, you know when you wouldtalk to her.
(22:21):
There's a song about a personwho starts falling in love with
a sociopath, but then, gets away, and that comes from part of a
true story, not my story, butsomeone else's story.
And then, which one am Imissing?
Teja (22:43):
I don't know, it's a puzzle to me.
Barbara (22:47):
It's a puzzle.
Teja (22:48):
What's next for you?
Have you finished?
How many songs in the albumhave you finished?
Barbara (22:55):
And I have finished my composition versions, so now
comes the official.
Teja (23:00):
So just as a reminder, composition version means that-.
Barbara (23:03):
I've written it.
It's in the digital audioworkstation in its full form in
terms of the instruments arethere, the scratch vocals are
there, the order is set, themeasures are set, everything
Like everything's set and it'sready to be actually what you
might say produced.
Teja (23:19):
So it's like a rough cut.
It's a rough draft yeah andthat you know you will be
replacing elements of it,including your voice, because
you'll be singing.
I'll be.
Barbara (23:30):
I'll be re-singing the whole thing, yeah, so right now,
where we are in the process isthat I am working with my
production and songwriter, buddyum, because actually there's
two songs we wrote together thataren't on this album that we'll
be releasing sometime aroundthe same time, like we're
(23:51):
working it in the releaseschedule, um, so we're working
together to he's puttingtogether the tracks, like taking
some of the instruments I had,for example, and saying what if
we did this instrument instead?
And usually what he'ssuggesting is just a much better
quality version of thatinstrument than I have.
(24:13):
Or, you know, he also canlisten to it and say, oh well,
here's one that has like adarker tone versus a brighter
tone.
Which one were you going for?
Because, like, the one I pickedis like in the middle you know,
he's like why don't we pick oneor the other, you know?
and so then it'll be the samething that I wrote, but it's
just, we've put a differentelectronic instrument on it, you
(24:35):
know, um, and then I have tolike get him certain information
about it at the same, becauseon the 22nd, uh, I'm flying to
Los Angeles and we're going tospend four days in the studio
recording and that's where I'llget my final vocals in.
Teja (24:53):
And then so okay, so you're, so you're recording it,
then you get your final vocalsin and then and I'm doing some
coaching, so I'm having you know, usually I'm doing some
coaching.
Barbara (25:02):
So I'm having so, you know, usually I'm giving the
coaching right but I'm havingsome coaching with, uh, noelle
Smith, who I've worked with on anumber of projects with you
know, as a singing teacher, andso I'm super excited to be
working with her and so she'skind of she's an electronic
artist as well.
She's sung on like video gamesand things like that and so, um,
(25:24):
you know, she's kind of you cannever hear yourself the way you
need to to like get to whereyou want to go.
So she's kind of listening andhelping me find the right vocal
vibe for where I want to go withit and then what happens after
that?
Teja (25:39):
like he'll, he'll, mix he'll.
Barbara (25:42):
Yeah, so we'll record it and he'll be then.
That's the thing you talkedabout the technology.
He's can drive all thetechnology, and all I have to
think about is what I'm singing.
That makes sense, right,because you don't want to be
distracted with all the otherstuff but then, yeah, he does
something called mixing, whichfor people who aren't familiar,
(26:03):
it means taking now everythingthat's recorded and for one
thing, you put it in space, likea lot of times you don't think
about this.
You have headphones on, forexample, and if you close your
eyes you can almost visualizethe singer front and in the
middle, almost visualize thesinger front and in the middle,
(26:26):
and you can visualize a sound onthe you know right quote back
of the stage or the left frontof the stage, like if you close
your eyes and listen, you'llrealize that the way they've
mixed it is that you canactually get a sense of these
instruments happening in space,and so there's a lot of things
that they do to make that happenand then to blend it with the
voice and make sure that there'sthe right amount of everything
(26:49):
so everything sounds like afinished product instead of just
pieces thrown together and likehalf, interfering with each
other.
Teja (26:59):
Okay.
Barbara (27:01):
So that he'll do.
And then the last step afterthat is something called
mastering, which is where youthrow it through a process that
I don't completely understand,but makes it work, regardless of
what kind of listeningsituation you're in.
So the mastering is what makesit, so I can take this recording
(27:23):
and I can play it in my car, orI can play it in my earbuds, or
I can play it on speakers in aroom and it's still gonna sound
good.
Teja (27:31):
Sound good, it'll still be .
You'll have seven songs in thecan in the case it well, in the
music industry this is called inthe can.
No, I don't know, that's just afilm term well, it's a film
term but, uh, seven songs forthat album.
Barbara (27:42):
And then we have the two songs, the two independent
songs that Will and I didtogether, and so we're going to
then figure out what the releaseschedule is.
So no release date yet.
For anyone who is interested inhearing what I did before on In
Hiding, that's on Spotify,apple Music, all the places, as
(28:06):
well as Bandcamp, you can.
If you want a copy to download,you can get it on Bandcamp, and
it's Morgan Duran is my bandname, if you will my band name
is Morgan.
Duran excellent.
I will admit that the Durancomes from the fact that I love
(28:27):
Duran Duran.
Everyone knows it comes fromthat, I know.
Teja (28:31):
I know Well.
Barbara (28:33):
It's a not so well kept secret.
Teja (28:36):
No, yes, not as hungry as the wolf.
Barbara (28:41):
Ah, I see wolves.
Teja (28:43):
That's what I'm saying, oh my gosh, that's what I'm saying
, oh my gosh, that's what I'msaying.
Okay, that's where it comes fromit goes deeper than we ever
knew than we ever knew, knew,knew well, this was really
fascinating.
I I um Fascinating, I I umbeing in production myself.
(29:03):
There's so many areas that Idon't know.
I just I'm just grateful thatthat you can share some of the
complexities behind even whatgoes on in what most people know
to be common.
It's like like like a TaylorSwift album album, like it's not
just that, she's, she does that, and then it just goes, that's
(29:25):
this on steroids.
Barbara (29:27):
I mean it's like right, yeah, that's like serious.
So take what I just told youand then like, amplify that
right but, but, but your processis the same the process is the
same.
Teja (29:40):
That's what I'm saying is saying is that you could take a
minute to write a song.
You could take a year to writea song.
You could be inspired bysomething that you see on a
table.
You could be inspired bysomething that just you woke up
with from a dream.
Barbara (29:55):
I once wrote a song about a misreading of somebody's
T-shirt in a crowd.
Teja (30:02):
See, it's your busy brain, yeah, brain, yeah.
Barbara (30:05):
you got a lot of stuff going on there I saw these words
on a t-shirt and I thought itsaid one thing, and I got this
whole thing going on in my headthat turned into a song.
Yeah, and that wasn't even whatthe t-shirt said.
I love it.
So again, that's a little lookinto my brain yeah, well,
(30:27):
together there's a lot of brainstuff going on.
Oh yeah, there's brain stuff,we got brains all over the place
.
Teja (30:32):
We got brain stuff all over the place.
Brains, you know, zombies,would I think.
I have not yet written a songabout zombies hmm well so you
never know, maybe that'll be thenext theme 56 zombies.
Barbara (30:48):
No, it's 56 fishes.
Alright, and someday everyonewill get to hear it Someday soon
.
Teja (30:54):
Excellent, can't wait.
Barbara (30:55):
Yay, alright.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, andeverything else that can be and
possibly is.
Teja (31:06):
Live forever.
Barbara (31:08):
At least live forward.
Teja (31:12):
Bye, bye.
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