January 23, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode, Ross O’Hair and Tom Price explore the richness of Romans 12:3-8, discussing how believers are called to embrace unity in the body of Christ while celebrating diversity in spiritual gifts. They tackle the dangers of comparison, the importance of finding identity in Christ, and how understanding God’s grace leads to a healthier community. Through personal stories and relatable analogies, this conversation unpacks how humility and sound judgment allow us to serve authentically and joyfully as members of God’s family.
Key Verses:
Romans 12:3-8: "For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think. But to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body, we have many members, and the members do not have all the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually members of one another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given us, let us use them: if prophecy in proportion to our faith; if service in our serving; the one who teaches in his teaching; the one who exhorts in his exhortation; the one who contributes in generosity; the one who leads with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy with cheerfulness."
Quotes:
"The most humble thing you can do is to believe what God says about you."
"True humility isn’t thinking less of ourselves; it’s about embracing who God says we are and living out of the grace gifts he’s placed in us."
"When we stop comparing ourselves to others and start celebrating the diversity within the body of Christ, we experience the fullness of God’s design for his church."
Key Points:
- Comparison within the body of Christ creates division, but humility and sound judgment promote unity.
- Spiritual gifts are not about self-worth but about fulfilling our unique roles in the body of Christ.
- True joy and fulfillment come from living authentically in the identity God has given us.
Outline:
- Introduction (00:00)
- Scripture Reading (00:52)
- Humility in Action (2:11)
- Breaking Free from the Comparison Trap (3:30)
- One Body, Many Parts (4:18)
- Grace as the Ultimate Lens (4:55)
- A Celebration of Unique Gifts (9:10)
- Lessons from Personal Battles with Comparison (14:44)
- The Church as a Unified Reflection of Christ (16:28)
- Conclusion and Major Takeaways (19:05)
Theme Music:
Here Forever by Adigold The Wedding Trailer by Toshman (all rights and licensing from Envato elements)
Hosted by: Ross O'Hair Participating Staff: Beau Brezina Scripture Read by: Ben Brezina Edited by: Ross O’Hair and Ben Brezina
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ross O'Hair:
Welcome to the Living in Jesus podcast. (00:04):
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Have you ever thought that you're a better Christian than those around you or on the
opposite side? Maybe you've wrestled with how to fit in or measure up to other believers.
Or maybe you just struggle with continually comparing yourself to other believers in all
aspects. So how do you navigate the unique gifts and personalities in your community in
(00:24):
church? In this episode, we'll dive into the beauty and complexity of
being part of God's family and how Romans 12:3 -
8 can teach us how to embrace the unity he calls us to live out with the Body of Christ.
My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your host.
And joining me today is Tom price.
But before we get to today's discussion, let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: Romans chapter 12, verses 3 through 8. (00:52):
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"For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of
himself more highly than he ought to think.
But to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that
God has assigned. For as in one body, we have many members,
and the members do not have all the same function,
(01:13):
so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually members of one another.
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given us,
let us use them (01:22):
if prophecy in proportion to our faith;
If service in our serving; the one who teaches in his teaching;
the one who exhorts in his exhortation; the one who contributes in generosity;
the one who leads with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy with
cheerfulness."
Ross O'Hair: All right, Tom, how are you today? (01:46):
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Tom Price: Man i'm doing great, Ross. Glad to be here. (01:47):
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Ross O'Hair: Good to have you in. All right, so, you know, (01:49):
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we're covering verses 3 to 8 today in chapter 12.
And Paul so far has talked about our identity in Christ.
We went over a lot of that in chapter 8 and also so far here in 12.
And how, you know, God's love has been poured out into our hearts.
So now we're going to try to apply that to how we apply that into the community.
(02:09):
So how does Paul do that here?
Tom Price: Well, he's getting ready to talk about how we each function within the body. (02:11):
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In verse 3 here he throws this for me, it was kind of a curveball when I read it at
first because he in other parts of his writings,
he talks about that we've been sanctified.
In other words, we've been made holy. We've been perfected in Christ.
And now he says that we're not to think too highly of ourselves.
(02:33):
Whoa. Sounds like you're going backwards, Paul.
Ross O'Hair: Right (02:35):
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Tom Price: But on the surface, it may seem that's what he's saying. (02:36):
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And it was for me, it was initially confusing.
I remember hearing a pastor one time and he said,
"the most humble thing you can do is to believe what God says about you." And I love
that. Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So the most humble thing you can do is to believe what God says about you. (02:51):
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Tom Price: So you're not elevating it. (02:55):
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You're not lowering it.
Ross O'Hair: So how do we reconcile that then, with what Paul just said, to not think more (02:57):
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highly of ourselves?
Tom Price: Well, I think what Paul's doing here is he's getting into this thing that all humans can (03:02):
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do, where we start comparing ourselves, where we're looking at each other,
and we're measuring ourselves based on what we do.
You know, our talents, our gifts, our abilities.
And if we get into that mode, we're not going to be living out of Christ's
(03:24):
life. We're not going to be living out of our identity. We're going to be pursuing
excellence through the flesh.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (03:29):
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Tom Price: And that's not how the body is supposed to function. (03:30):
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Ross O'Hair: So the way we tithe in identity, as I brought up at the very beginning. (03:32):
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So the way we've tied identity into this idea of not thinking too highly of ourselves is
that when we understand who we are and what God's done to us,
then we have a correct view of our identity.
And then we can have a correct view of ourselves in terms of how it relates to other
people.
Tom Price: Yeah because we're we're designed to function together, (03:52):
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not individually. Together.
And that he goes into the really the analogy of the body there.
Ross O'Hair: Right. (04:01):
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Tom Price: Well, actually, you know, there's other passages that Paul writes. (04:01):
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He talks about that like in first Corinthians 12,
Ephesians 4, Colossians 1.
He he loves this body imagery.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (04:13):
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Tom Price: As he uses that. (04:13):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:14):
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Tom Price: And that's what he's playing off of here. (04:14):
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Ross O'Hair: Yep (04:17):
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Tom Price: I love that in verse 3 there he says, "for through the grace given to me." And then (04:17):
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he makes that statement and where that takes me -
and you and I, we like to teach the two trees -
and where it takes me is this idea of grace versus law.
And and through law we are, you know, always comparing.
(04:39):
It's a continuum of comparison.
You know, how low are we?
How high are we? Where are we on this continuum?
But when you see yourself through the lens of grace,
you see you. You see the the way that God made you.
And it's not about like, wow, God, I am so great!
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:55):
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Tom Price: You are so great! (04:56):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah (04:57):
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Tom Price: you've designed me to be a reflection of you. (04:57):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah that's the great thing about Grace is it's never earned. (05:01):
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So we can't begin to compare ourselves.
And it's not like, well, look, I measured up here, and therefore I've
received God's grace. It's like, well, no, we could never measure up, and yet
we still receive God's grace.
And so, yeah, it takes the comparison whole option off the table because it was never
about that comparison.
Tom Price: Exactly. Exactly. I love what Paul says in second Corinthians 10:12. (05:21):
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He says, "for we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who
commend themselves. But when they measure themselves by themselves and compare
themselves with themselves, they are without understanding."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. You know, so if I was driving in my car listening to that, (05:40):
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I'd be like, what did he just say? I mean, Paul can sometimes be like,
wait a minute, you lost me with the fourth themselves,
I don't know. But I had to read that a few times,
and it's such an incredible verse. Like, explain what he's actually saying there in
like, layman's terms.
Tom Price: Well, I think in layman's terms, he's saying that if we get into this mindset (06:00):
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of always comparing ourselves, we're setting our mind on things below.
We're just looking at ourselves through the, you know, the physical senses,
right? And we're not seeing ourselves through God's eyes.
Yeah. And it's through God's eyes that we actually gain understanding.
Ross O'Hair: Right. That's the part that's so great. Paul is saying, (06:20):
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if you're in the business of comparing yourselves,
you do not have understanding.
And my question, my next question is, okay, understanding about what? And it's what
we've talked about, who we are, what God has done to us,
like the amazing grace that he's given us.
We don't fully understand that because we're still comparing.
Tom Price: Absolutely. I remember, especially in my young Christian life and (06:38):
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even on in way on into adulthood.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (06:46):
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Tom Price: I would get into this pattern of comparing myself. (06:46):
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And, you know, everybody wants to feel worthwhile and wants to be worthwhile,
right? And so if you get into this earthly way of comparing and contrasting,
you'll look at somebody else and go, oh, I'm better than them.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (07:05):
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Tom Price: And then you look at somebody else and go, oh, (07:06):
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I need to self-improve here.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. (07:11):
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Tom Price: And for me, that's the pattern I got into. (07:11):
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I wanted to feel good about myself, and then I would get around somebody who was
doing the same thing and boy, they were doing it much better than me.
And now I'm back in the hole again.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yeah. (07:22):
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Tom Price: And God didn't mean that for us. (07:23):
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Ross O'Hair: No. Yeah. Well, I was just saying maybe that's what Paul is really getting at here in (07:25):
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verse 3, is when we get into that and think more highly of ourselves,
what it does to the body of Christ is it creates division and contention.
And like just an air of, you know, comparing and that tears people
apart. It tears the community apart. And obviously, Paul's urging the Romans here to
(07:46):
know. Be unified. Think of yourselves in the correct way,
which is what God has done to you, and you'll experience that unity.
Tom Price: Yeah, I like the, in the middle of the verse there, (07:53):
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he says, "but to think so as to have sound judgment." And so who's impacting my
thinking?
Ross O'Hair: Right. (08:03):
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Tom Price: You know, am I listening to the flesh? (08:03):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (08:05):
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Tom Price: Or am I listening to the spirit within me? (08:05):
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Yeah. And he's impacting my thoughts.
And that's what gives me sound judgment.
Ross O'Hair: Exactly. So that's verse 3, where does he take us for verse 4 and beyond? (08:11):
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Tom Price: Well, in verse 4 he starts picking up this body analogy. (08:18):
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You know, we have many members in one body.
And I remember listening to Jesus in the Gospels where he's telling his disciples,
it is necessary for me to leave you.
He wasn't saying, I'm going to leave you, like abandon you.
(08:40):
okay? He needed to go away so that the Holy Spirit could come and live in them.
And then he would actually be closer to them.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (08:47):
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Tom Price: Right? So he's setting them up for this idea that I am going to be living in you. (08:47):
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And now here Paul is picking up, I think, on that.
Where, all right, as the whole body of Christ,
right? There has to be a head.
Somebody has to direct this body, just like in the human body.
You know, our brain is like the CPU and it's giving instructions to the whole body.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (09:10):
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Tom Price: And as we operate as one body, you know, I'm talking about us individually. (09:11):
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There's balance. I'm here waving my hands around,
and I'm not thinking about waving my hands around.
It's just the brain is controlling everything.
And and so when we, as the body of Christ are listening to Christ as the head,
(09:31):
then as he moves us, as he directs us, there is balance and harmony,
and there's this amazing beauty in the church working,
you know, when the world sees that.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (09:42):
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Tom Price: They see God. (09:43):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. It's something that they want. (09:44):
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Yeah. When they see the unhealthiness, the comparing, that's not something they
want. And it's interesting that he goes obviously 3 comes before 4.
And so that comes in sequential order.
But he's laying the foundation where it's know who you are,
understand your identity, understand what God has done to you through
grace, so that when you see all these different parts,
(10:05):
you're not sitting there comparing like, oh, he has such a great gift and I only have
this. Or he has multiple gifts or she has, you know,
she's really good at this and I'm not.
Like that tears it apart as opposed to again know your identity first step,
then when we get to all the different parts in the body and how it all works together,
it creates that unity.
It creates a much bigger and more powerful unit than if we're all split off trying to do
(10:28):
our own thing.
Tom Price: Yeah. As I was reading through this, Adam and Eve popped in my head and I thought (10:29):
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about in the beginning of our human story, God puts his life in these two humans and he
gives them this instruction to fill the earth up.
Rule over it. It's the idea of God's life being infused in these creatures and then
(10:50):
displaying his life to each other, and then filling the earth up.
And the earth is full of God's life and love and beauty,
right? And then, of course, the fall interrupts that.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yeah. Breaks it. (11:00):
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Tom Price: And now here's Jesus. Come back to restore and to make better. (11:01):
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Really? And so now we as his body, we're doing the same thing,
but we're doing it now in a fallen world.
So you see a more of a contrast between the light and the dark.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. That's amazing. I love that imagery because obviously what Jesus is doing is (11:17):
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redeeming what we've messed up and creating it into a better.
Like, he you know, he said, through the spirit you'll do better things.
And as a body, we are doing better things because we're across the whole world.
This huge body of Christ as believers have such an impact,
(11:37):
especially when we work in unity.
It's amazing.
Tom Price: Yeah. But if we're thinking too highly of ourselves, (11:39):
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going back to verse 3, then what the world sees is this awkward,
dysfunctional mess.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (11:50):
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Tom Price: And I used to be a builder working in construction. (11:51):
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I was in residential. So building, you know,
houses, homes. And there would always be a general contractor who oversaw the entire
project. They were, you know, they saw it from beginning to end.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (12:06):
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Tom Price: They're the ones at the end is basically putting the keys into the homeowners hand. (12:07):
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Right? And working for this general contractor is all these subs.
And the years that I did this, I watched many subs go to the general
contractor and basically say, well, this is how you need to be doing it and
(12:27):
start directing them.
Ross O'Hair: Oh, really? (12:28):
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Tom Price: And then and then also see the self-importance that, (12:28):
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well, I'm the electrician.
I'm much more important than the painter, you know.
But the fact is, Yes, there's pieces that have greater impact on
the whole.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (12:41):
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Tom Price: But you need all of it to have the finished product. (12:41):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (12:45):
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Tom Price: And so here's Christ, our head, who says, guys, (12:45):
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all of you are important.
Yes, this piece might look more important, but they're not more important.
It requires all of you functioning in and through my life,
and taking direction from my spirit to guide you in doing what you're designed to do in
me.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, like, I've seen a house be built (13:05):
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and it was like you think of the framer, you know,
like none of that house can stand without putting the framing of the house up. So
somebody could say, oh, well, that's the most important part. And I
kind of equate this to our even just our modern Christian society,
where it's like, oh, well you're a pastor of a mega church.
You must be the framer, right? You must be the one that makes the
(13:27):
whole thing stand, or, you know, you have this gift.
So you're really special.
And Paul's absolutely dashing that against the rocks where he's like,
no, there's there's not one that's more important.
Again, a pastor of a megachurch may have more impact into,
you know, a number of people's lives, but you might have one person who's great at
hospitality, who impacts one person and that person.
(13:47):
Life is completely changed.
That's just as important again.
So it's just that we can't get into this comparison thing just like a building.
I love that analogy because every part is important.
Tom Price: Last year, I think it was last year, I went to a funeral at my church. (13:57):
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And the lady that we were celebrating, you saw her mostly behind the scenes.
She loved to work at the church, functions where food was being served,
and she was back there serving the food.
And she loved it. And she was good at talking to people and making them feel loved and
(14:20):
accepted and warm. And I mean, she wasn't up on the stage speaking,
and she wasn't teaching all these great classes and everything.
She wasn't an out -front person.
She was behind the scenes.
And yet at that memorial service, I mean, these people were just praising God
for the way that she displayed God's life in and through her,
(14:42):
in what she did in her service.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (14:44):
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Tom Price: And to me, that was a beautiful picture of her not comparing herself, (14:45):
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but going, this is who God made me to be.
And I'm going to I'm going to function in his design.
Ross O'Hair: Well, in doing it and loving it. (14:55):
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Tom Price: Yes. Absolutely (14:57):
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Ross O'Hair: I mean, just like enjoying it. (14:57):
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And that's the part we've come back to so many times when we're walking out of who we
are, no matter what we're doing, there's that sense of enjoyment and peace and
just fulfillment that comes from it.
And along those lines, how have you seen this impacting your life?
Obviously. How have you walked this journey out?
Tom Price: Well, as I was thinking about it, you know, I'm always reflecting back on my (15:15):
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life to see the the journey that God has taken me through.
And I remember in my early Christian days, it was kind of popular to,
you know, as a young adult to take these spiritual inventory tests.
And you know after you take it, you know, what's your,
what's your spiritual gift. You know we're all looking at our...
(15:36):
You're all comparing. We're comparing.
Well so what is your spiritual gift? Well mine is mercy. Well mine is prophecy.
Mine is this and mine is that.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I got all of them, so. (15:44):
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Oh did you? Wow! You're amazing, Ross.
So for me, as I compared my spiritual gift to somebody else's,
I was like oh, man, I wish I had their spiritual gift.
Yeah.
Tom Price: And instead of me seeing God's design in me, (15:56):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:00):
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Tom Price: I was looking at the gift, really as a source of identity. (16:01):
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Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yep. (16:05):
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Tom Price: Because I was looking for purpose and meaning about my life. (16:06):
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And because I had what I judged as a lesser gift than I don't have as much worth and
value. And that really hampered me in experiencing freedom.
Experiencing really, God's life.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Fulfillment. (16:28):
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Tom Price: Because I was kept trying. (16:28):
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Yeah. Fulfillment. I kept trying to find life in the in the gift,
in the in the place. My place in the body.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:37):
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Tom Price: Instead of realizing, wow, eternal life is not about what you do. (16:37):
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Eternal life is who you know.
Ross O'Hair: So how did you get past that? How did you get to the point where you were able to enjoy (16:43):
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your gift?
Tom Price: Realizing who I was in Christ. (16:46):
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You know John 17:3 where Jesus defines eternal life.
It's about knowing God.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:54):
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Tom Price: And once I realized that, oh, that's the point right there. (16:55):
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It's about knowing God.
And the more I know God, the more comfortable I have become in my skin
here on the earth.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (17:07):
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Tom Price: And there's a lot of joy and just being who God made me to be. (17:08):
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It's not about what I do.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I love doing.
And that's important.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I'm curious, what would you say one of your gifts are? (17:17):
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And how do you play that out?
Tom Price: I would say one of my gifts is encouragement. (17:22):
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And when I see folks who are experiencing stress or sadness or grief or just,
you know, beating themselves up. Yeah.
I just have this heart to go to them.
And Lord, use me to love on them.
Use me to lift them up, use me to encourage them to be their
(17:44):
cheerleader, to walk with them and say, "you know what?
God is doing something amazing in your life.
And even if you feel like a failure right now,
or if you feel less than, that's a lie and I'll walk alongside you." So
I love doing that.
Ross O'Hair: It's no wonder you're a counselor. I mean, that's a lot of that. (17:58):
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Tom Price: Well, and I never wanted to go into counseling. (18:01):
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Ross O'Hair: Oh, Yeah? (18:02):
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Tom Price: Yes (18:03):
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Ross O'Hair: Well, it's funny, it's like encouraging could be one of those gifts that people are like, (18:04):
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"oh, that's not very glamorous." Most people wouldn't see that.
It's behind the scenes.
It's quiet. It's in the a small conversation here and there.
And yet, I mean, think about the impact and how God's using that encouragement just like
he does. Again, I'm not going to pick on mega pastors,
but, you know, someone that has a huge platform or whatnot,
(18:25):
it's just as impactful.
It's impactful. It's just as important. And I love that you picked that one out, because it
really illustrates that no matter what someone's gifting is or what their passions
are, and helping the body of Christ out, it all matters.
It all is important and it all glorifies God.
Tom Price: Yeah. And going back to verse 3, you know that sound judgment, (18:42):
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seeing yourself the way God designed you not to lift yourself up.
Oh, look how important I am.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. (18:53):
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Tom Price: But to just rest in God's design and then live out of your identity and there's peace. (18:54):
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There's peace in that.
Ross O'Hair: So what would be our final takeaway here as we wrap this up? (19:03):
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Tom Price: Well, I would say that true humility really isn't thinking less about ourselves. (19:05):
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It's about embracing who God says we are and living out of the grace gifts he's placed in
us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (19:16):
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Tom Price: And when we stop comparing ourselves to others and start celebrating the diversity (19:17):
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within the body of Christ, we can truly experience the fullness of what
God intends for his church.
Ross O'Hair: That's so good. Thanks for being a good example of that of what that looks like. I (19:28):
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know that having worked with you for a long time, you ooze that confidence and that
security. You don't think too highly of yourself.
You do a great job exhuding Christ.
Tom Price: You don't know about that. (19:40):
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Ross O'Hair: Hahaha . And guys, thanks so much for listening today. (19:40):
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We really appreciate it.
We're going to continue on in Romans 12 here.
But if you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review. It
really helps us, helps the podcast out, helps others find it.
But again, thanks so much for listening today, and we'll see you next week on the
Living in Jesus podcast.
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Have you ever thought that you're a better Christian than those around you or on the
opposite side? Maybe you've wrestled with how to fit in or measure up to other believers.
Or maybe you just struggle with continually comparing yourself to other believers in all
aspects. So how do you navigate the unique gifts and personalities in your community in
(00:24):
church? In this episode, we'll dive into the beauty and complexity of
being part of God's family and how Romans 12:3 -
8 can teach us how to embrace the unity he calls us to live out with the Body of Christ.
My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your host.
And joining me today is Tom price.
But before we get to today's discussion, let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: Romans chapter 12, verses 3 through 8. (00:52):
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"For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of
himself more highly than he ought to think.
But to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that
God has assigned. For as in one body, we have many members,
and the members do not have all the same function,
(01:13):
so we, though many, are one body in Christ and individually members of one another.
Having gifts that differ according to the grace given us,
let us use them (01:22):
if prophecy in proportion to our faith;
If service in our serving; the one who teaches in his teaching;
the one who exhorts in his exhortation; the one who contributes in generosity;
the one who leads with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy with
cheerfulness."
Ross O'Hair: All right, Tom, how are you today? (01:46):
undefined
Tom Price: Man i'm doing great, Ross. Glad to be here. (01:47):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Good to have you in. All right, so, you know, (01:49):
undefined
we're covering verses 3 to 8 today in chapter 12.
And Paul so far has talked about our identity in Christ.
We went over a lot of that in chapter 8 and also so far here in 12.
And how, you know, God's love has been poured out into our hearts.
So now we're going to try to apply that to how we apply that into the community.
(02:09):
So how does Paul do that here?
Tom Price: Well, he's getting ready to talk about how we each function within the body. (02:11):
undefined
In verse 3 here he throws this for me, it was kind of a curveball when I read it at
first because he in other parts of his writings,
he talks about that we've been sanctified.
In other words, we've been made holy. We've been perfected in Christ.
And now he says that we're not to think too highly of ourselves.
(02:33):
Whoa. Sounds like you're going backwards, Paul.
Ross O'Hair: Right (02:35):
undefined
Tom Price: But on the surface, it may seem that's what he's saying. (02:36):
undefined
And it was for me, it was initially confusing.
I remember hearing a pastor one time and he said,
"the most humble thing you can do is to believe what God says about you." And I love
that. Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So the most humble thing you can do is to believe what God says about you. (02:51):
undefined
Tom Price: So you're not elevating it. (02:55):
undefined
You're not lowering it.
Ross O'Hair: So how do we reconcile that then, with what Paul just said, to not think more (02:57):
undefined
highly of ourselves?
Tom Price: Well, I think what Paul's doing here is he's getting into this thing that all humans can (03:02):
undefined
do, where we start comparing ourselves, where we're looking at each other,
and we're measuring ourselves based on what we do.
You know, our talents, our gifts, our abilities.
And if we get into that mode, we're not going to be living out of Christ's
(03:24):
life. We're not going to be living out of our identity. We're going to be pursuing
excellence through the flesh.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (03:29):
undefined
Tom Price: And that's not how the body is supposed to function. (03:30):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: So the way we tithe in identity, as I brought up at the very beginning. (03:32):
undefined
So the way we've tied identity into this idea of not thinking too highly of ourselves is
that when we understand who we are and what God's done to us,
then we have a correct view of our identity.
And then we can have a correct view of ourselves in terms of how it relates to other
people.
Tom Price: Yeah because we're we're designed to function together, (03:52):
undefined
not individually. Together.
And that he goes into the really the analogy of the body there.
Ross O'Hair: Right. (04:01):
undefined
Tom Price: Well, actually, you know, there's other passages that Paul writes. (04:01):
undefined
He talks about that like in first Corinthians 12,
Ephesians 4, Colossians 1.
He he loves this body imagery.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (04:13):
undefined
Tom Price: As he uses that. (04:13):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:14):
undefined
Tom Price: And that's what he's playing off of here. (04:14):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yep (04:17):
undefined
Tom Price: I love that in verse 3 there he says, "for through the grace given to me." And then (04:17):
undefined
he makes that statement and where that takes me -
and you and I, we like to teach the two trees -
and where it takes me is this idea of grace versus law.
And and through law we are, you know, always comparing.
(04:39):
It's a continuum of comparison.
You know, how low are we?
How high are we? Where are we on this continuum?
But when you see yourself through the lens of grace,
you see you. You see the the way that God made you.
And it's not about like, wow, God, I am so great!
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:55):
undefined
Tom Price: You are so great! (04:56):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (04:57):
undefined
Tom Price: you've designed me to be a reflection of you. (04:57):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah that's the great thing about Grace is it's never earned. (05:01):
undefined
So we can't begin to compare ourselves.
And it's not like, well, look, I measured up here, and therefore I've
received God's grace. It's like, well, no, we could never measure up, and yet
we still receive God's grace.
And so, yeah, it takes the comparison whole option off the table because it was never
about that comparison.
Tom Price: Exactly. Exactly. I love what Paul says in second Corinthians 10:12. (05:21):
undefined
He says, "for we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who
commend themselves. But when they measure themselves by themselves and compare
themselves with themselves, they are without understanding."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. You know, so if I was driving in my car listening to that, (05:40):
undefined
I'd be like, what did he just say? I mean, Paul can sometimes be like,
wait a minute, you lost me with the fourth themselves,
I don't know. But I had to read that a few times,
and it's such an incredible verse. Like, explain what he's actually saying there in
like, layman's terms.
Tom Price: Well, I think in layman's terms, he's saying that if we get into this mindset (06:00):
undefined
of always comparing ourselves, we're setting our mind on things below.
We're just looking at ourselves through the, you know, the physical senses,
right? And we're not seeing ourselves through God's eyes.
Yeah. And it's through God's eyes that we actually gain understanding.
Ross O'Hair: Right. That's the part that's so great. Paul is saying, (06:20):
undefined
if you're in the business of comparing yourselves,
you do not have understanding.
And my question, my next question is, okay, understanding about what? And it's what
we've talked about, who we are, what God has done to us,
like the amazing grace that he's given us.
We don't fully understand that because we're still comparing.
Tom Price: Absolutely. I remember, especially in my young Christian life and (06:38):
undefined
even on in way on into adulthood.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (06:46):
undefined
Tom Price: I would get into this pattern of comparing myself. (06:46):
undefined
And, you know, everybody wants to feel worthwhile and wants to be worthwhile,
right? And so if you get into this earthly way of comparing and contrasting,
you'll look at somebody else and go, oh, I'm better than them.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (07:05):
undefined
Tom Price: And then you look at somebody else and go, oh, (07:06):
undefined
I need to self-improve here.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. (07:11):
undefined
Tom Price: And for me, that's the pattern I got into. (07:11):
undefined
I wanted to feel good about myself, and then I would get around somebody who was
doing the same thing and boy, they were doing it much better than me.
And now I'm back in the hole again.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yeah. (07:22):
undefined
Tom Price: And God didn't mean that for us. (07:23):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: No. Yeah. Well, I was just saying maybe that's what Paul is really getting at here in (07:25):
undefined
verse 3, is when we get into that and think more highly of ourselves,
what it does to the body of Christ is it creates division and contention.
And like just an air of, you know, comparing and that tears people
apart. It tears the community apart. And obviously, Paul's urging the Romans here to
(07:46):
know. Be unified. Think of yourselves in the correct way,
which is what God has done to you, and you'll experience that unity.
Tom Price: Yeah, I like the, in the middle of the verse there, (07:53):
undefined
he says, "but to think so as to have sound judgment." And so who's impacting my
thinking?
Ross O'Hair: Right. (08:03):
undefined
Tom Price: You know, am I listening to the flesh? (08:03):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (08:05):
undefined
Tom Price: Or am I listening to the spirit within me? (08:05):
undefined
Yeah. And he's impacting my thoughts.
And that's what gives me sound judgment.
Ross O'Hair: Exactly. So that's verse 3, where does he take us for verse 4 and beyond? (08:11):
undefined
Tom Price: Well, in verse 4 he starts picking up this body analogy. (08:18):
undefined
You know, we have many members in one body.
And I remember listening to Jesus in the Gospels where he's telling his disciples,
it is necessary for me to leave you.
He wasn't saying, I'm going to leave you, like abandon you.
(08:40):
okay? He needed to go away so that the Holy Spirit could come and live in them.
And then he would actually be closer to them.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah (08:47):
undefined
Tom Price: Right? So he's setting them up for this idea that I am going to be living in you. (08:47):
undefined
And now here Paul is picking up, I think, on that.
Where, all right, as the whole body of Christ,
right? There has to be a head.
Somebody has to direct this body, just like in the human body.
You know, our brain is like the CPU and it's giving instructions to the whole body.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (09:10):
undefined
Tom Price: And as we operate as one body, you know, I'm talking about us individually. (09:11):
undefined
There's balance. I'm here waving my hands around,
and I'm not thinking about waving my hands around.
It's just the brain is controlling everything.
And and so when we, as the body of Christ are listening to Christ as the head,
(09:31):
then as he moves us, as he directs us, there is balance and harmony,
and there's this amazing beauty in the church working,
you know, when the world sees that.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (09:42):
undefined
Tom Price: They see God. (09:43):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. It's something that they want. (09:44):
undefined
Yeah. When they see the unhealthiness, the comparing, that's not something they
want. And it's interesting that he goes obviously 3 comes before 4.
And so that comes in sequential order.
But he's laying the foundation where it's know who you are,
understand your identity, understand what God has done to you through
grace, so that when you see all these different parts,
(10:05):
you're not sitting there comparing like, oh, he has such a great gift and I only have
this. Or he has multiple gifts or she has, you know,
she's really good at this and I'm not.
Like that tears it apart as opposed to again know your identity first step,
then when we get to all the different parts in the body and how it all works together,
it creates that unity.
It creates a much bigger and more powerful unit than if we're all split off trying to do
(10:28):
our own thing.
Tom Price: Yeah. As I was reading through this, Adam and Eve popped in my head and I thought (10:29):
undefined
about in the beginning of our human story, God puts his life in these two humans and he
gives them this instruction to fill the earth up.
Rule over it. It's the idea of God's life being infused in these creatures and then
(10:50):
displaying his life to each other, and then filling the earth up.
And the earth is full of God's life and love and beauty,
right? And then, of course, the fall interrupts that.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yeah. Breaks it. (11:00):
undefined
Tom Price: And now here's Jesus. Come back to restore and to make better. (11:01):
undefined
Really? And so now we as his body, we're doing the same thing,
but we're doing it now in a fallen world.
So you see a more of a contrast between the light and the dark.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. That's amazing. I love that imagery because obviously what Jesus is doing is (11:17):
undefined
redeeming what we've messed up and creating it into a better.
Like, he you know, he said, through the spirit you'll do better things.
And as a body, we are doing better things because we're across the whole world.
This huge body of Christ as believers have such an impact,
(11:37):
especially when we work in unity.
It's amazing.
Tom Price: Yeah. But if we're thinking too highly of ourselves, (11:39):
undefined
going back to verse 3, then what the world sees is this awkward,
dysfunctional mess.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (11:50):
undefined
Tom Price: And I used to be a builder working in construction. (11:51):
undefined
I was in residential. So building, you know,
houses, homes. And there would always be a general contractor who oversaw the entire
project. They were, you know, they saw it from beginning to end.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (12:06):
undefined
Tom Price: They're the ones at the end is basically putting the keys into the homeowners hand. (12:07):
undefined
Right? And working for this general contractor is all these subs.
And the years that I did this, I watched many subs go to the general
contractor and basically say, well, this is how you need to be doing it and
(12:27):
start directing them.
Ross O'Hair: Oh, really? (12:28):
undefined
Tom Price: And then and then also see the self-importance that, (12:28):
undefined
well, I'm the electrician.
I'm much more important than the painter, you know.
But the fact is, Yes, there's pieces that have greater impact on
the whole.
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (12:41):
undefined
Tom Price: But you need all of it to have the finished product. (12:41):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (12:45):
undefined
Tom Price: And so here's Christ, our head, who says, guys, (12:45):
undefined
all of you are important.
Yes, this piece might look more important, but they're not more important.
It requires all of you functioning in and through my life,
and taking direction from my spirit to guide you in doing what you're designed to do in
me.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, like, I've seen a house be built (13:05):
undefined
and it was like you think of the framer, you know,
like none of that house can stand without putting the framing of the house up. So
somebody could say, oh, well, that's the most important part. And I
kind of equate this to our even just our modern Christian society,
where it's like, oh, well you're a pastor of a mega church.
You must be the framer, right? You must be the one that makes the
(13:27):
whole thing stand, or, you know, you have this gift.
So you're really special.
And Paul's absolutely dashing that against the rocks where he's like,
no, there's there's not one that's more important.
Again, a pastor of a megachurch may have more impact into,
you know, a number of people's lives, but you might have one person who's great at
hospitality, who impacts one person and that person.
(13:47):
Life is completely changed.
That's just as important again.
So it's just that we can't get into this comparison thing just like a building.
I love that analogy because every part is important.
Tom Price: Last year, I think it was last year, I went to a funeral at my church. (13:57):
undefined
And the lady that we were celebrating, you saw her mostly behind the scenes.
She loved to work at the church, functions where food was being served,
and she was back there serving the food.
And she loved it. And she was good at talking to people and making them feel loved and
(14:20):
accepted and warm. And I mean, she wasn't up on the stage speaking,
and she wasn't teaching all these great classes and everything.
She wasn't an out -front person.
She was behind the scenes.
And yet at that memorial service, I mean, these people were just praising God
for the way that she displayed God's life in and through her,
(14:42):
in what she did in her service.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (14:44):
undefined
Tom Price: And to me, that was a beautiful picture of her not comparing herself, (14:45):
undefined
but going, this is who God made me to be.
And I'm going to I'm going to function in his design.
Ross O'Hair: Well, in doing it and loving it. (14:55):
undefined
Tom Price: Yes. Absolutely (14:57):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: I mean, just like enjoying it. (14:57):
undefined
And that's the part we've come back to so many times when we're walking out of who we
are, no matter what we're doing, there's that sense of enjoyment and peace and
just fulfillment that comes from it.
And along those lines, how have you seen this impacting your life?
Obviously. How have you walked this journey out?
Tom Price: Well, as I was thinking about it, you know, I'm always reflecting back on my (15:15):
undefined
life to see the the journey that God has taken me through.
And I remember in my early Christian days, it was kind of popular to,
you know, as a young adult to take these spiritual inventory tests.
And you know after you take it, you know, what's your,
what's your spiritual gift. You know we're all looking at our...
(15:36):
You're all comparing. We're comparing.
Well so what is your spiritual gift? Well mine is mercy. Well mine is prophecy.
Mine is this and mine is that.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I got all of them, so. (15:44):
undefined
Oh did you? Wow! You're amazing, Ross.
So for me, as I compared my spiritual gift to somebody else's,
I was like oh, man, I wish I had their spiritual gift.
Yeah.
Tom Price: And instead of me seeing God's design in me, (15:56):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:00):
undefined
Tom Price: I was looking at the gift, really as a source of identity. (16:01):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Sure. Yep. (16:05):
undefined
Tom Price: Because I was looking for purpose and meaning about my life. (16:06):
undefined
And because I had what I judged as a lesser gift than I don't have as much worth and
value. And that really hampered me in experiencing freedom.
Experiencing really, God's life.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Fulfillment. (16:28):
undefined
Tom Price: Because I was kept trying. (16:28):
undefined
Yeah. Fulfillment. I kept trying to find life in the in the gift,
in the in the place. My place in the body.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:37):
undefined
Tom Price: Instead of realizing, wow, eternal life is not about what you do. (16:37):
undefined
Eternal life is who you know.
Ross O'Hair: So how did you get past that? How did you get to the point where you were able to enjoy (16:43):
undefined
your gift?
Tom Price: Realizing who I was in Christ. (16:46):
undefined
You know John 17:3 where Jesus defines eternal life.
It's about knowing God.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (16:54):
undefined
Tom Price: And once I realized that, oh, that's the point right there. (16:55):
undefined
It's about knowing God.
And the more I know God, the more comfortable I have become in my skin
here on the earth.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (17:07):
undefined
Tom Price: And there's a lot of joy and just being who God made me to be. (17:08):
undefined
It's not about what I do.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I love doing.
And that's important.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I'm curious, what would you say one of your gifts are? (17:17):
undefined
And how do you play that out?
Tom Price: I would say one of my gifts is encouragement. (17:22):
undefined
And when I see folks who are experiencing stress or sadness or grief or just,
you know, beating themselves up. Yeah.
I just have this heart to go to them.
And Lord, use me to love on them.
Use me to lift them up, use me to encourage them to be their
(17:44):
cheerleader, to walk with them and say, "you know what?
God is doing something amazing in your life.
And even if you feel like a failure right now,
or if you feel less than, that's a lie and I'll walk alongside you." So
I love doing that.
Ross O'Hair: It's no wonder you're a counselor. I mean, that's a lot of that. (17:58):
undefined
Tom Price: Well, and I never wanted to go into counseling. (18:01):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Oh, Yeah? (18:02):
undefined
Tom Price: Yes (18:03):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Well, it's funny, it's like encouraging could be one of those gifts that people are like, (18:04):
undefined
"oh, that's not very glamorous." Most people wouldn't see that.
It's behind the scenes.
It's quiet. It's in the a small conversation here and there.
And yet, I mean, think about the impact and how God's using that encouragement just like
he does. Again, I'm not going to pick on mega pastors,
but, you know, someone that has a huge platform or whatnot,
(18:25):
it's just as impactful.
It's impactful. It's just as important. And I love that you picked that one out, because it
really illustrates that no matter what someone's gifting is or what their passions
are, and helping the body of Christ out, it all matters.
It all is important and it all glorifies God.
Tom Price: Yeah. And going back to verse 3, you know that sound judgment, (18:42):
undefined
seeing yourself the way God designed you not to lift yourself up.
Oh, look how important I am.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. (18:53):
undefined
Tom Price: But to just rest in God's design and then live out of your identity and there's peace. (18:54):
undefined
There's peace in that.
Ross O'Hair: So what would be our final takeaway here as we wrap this up? (19:03):
undefined
Tom Price: Well, I would say that true humility really isn't thinking less about ourselves. (19:05):
undefined
It's about embracing who God says we are and living out of the grace gifts he's placed in
us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (19:16):
undefined
Tom Price: And when we stop comparing ourselves to others and start celebrating the diversity (19:17):
undefined
within the body of Christ, we can truly experience the fullness of what
God intends for his church.
Ross O'Hair: That's so good. Thanks for being a good example of that of what that looks like. I (19:28):
undefined
know that having worked with you for a long time, you ooze that confidence and that
security. You don't think too highly of yourself.
You do a great job exhuding Christ.
Tom Price: You don't know about that. (19:40):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Hahaha . And guys, thanks so much for listening today. (19:40):
undefined
We really appreciate it.
We're going to continue on in Romans 12 here.
But if you enjoyed today's episode, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review. It
really helps us, helps the podcast out, helps others find it.
But again, thanks so much for listening today, and we'll see you next week on the
Living in Jesus podcast.
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