December 5, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode, host Ross O'Hair and guest Mark Fields delve into Romans 8:1-4 to explore how believers can experience true freedom from feelings of condemnation, isolation, and powerlessness. They discuss the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in overcoming sin and temptation, offering practical insights on how to live moment by moment under the Spirit's guidance. Listen today to gain a deeper understanding of how to apply biblical truths to break free from cycles of guilt and shame, and to live confidently in the assurance of God's unwavering love and presence.
Key Verses:
Romans 8:1-4: “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Quotes:
“There is therefore now no condemnation—right now, in this moment, God is not condemning me, and there’s nothing in my life He would condemn me for.”
“One of Satan's favorite strategies is to create in our minds a distance between us and God.”
“We experience freedom as we trust that God is right there with us, empowering us to trust Him and enjoy His life.”
Key Points:
- God has set us free from condemnation and empowered us to live in the Spirit.
- The Holy Spirit provides life, freedom, and assurance of God’s presence.
- Choosing to trust the Spirit over the flesh leads to peace, freedom, and joy.
Outline:
- Introduction (00:00)
- Reading Romans 8:1-4 (01:08)
- From Despair to Deliverance: Transitioning from Romans 7 to 8 (02:01)
- The Spirit Unleashed (03:16)
- Prison Break Part 1: Escaping Condemnation's Cell (05:09)
- Prison Break Part 2: Overcoming the Powerlessness Prison (08:12)
- Defying Spiritual Gravity: The Aerodynamics of Faith (12:20)
- Soaring Daily: Trusting God in Every Moment (15:18)
- Example of Fighting Anxiety in the Middle of the Night (17:02)
- Key Takeaways and Summary (20:05)
Theme Music:
Here Forever by Adigold Dreaming Calming Relaxation by OlexandrIgnatov (all rights and licensing from Envato elements)
Hosted by: Ross O'Hair Participating Staff: Mark Fields Scripture Reading: Corrie O’Hair Edited by: Ross O’Hair and Ben Brezina
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ross O'Hair:
Welcome to the Living in Jesus podcast. (00:06):
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Have you ever felt that God has condemnedyou, judged you, left you alone?
Maybe you've struggled with the belief thatyour mistakes have pushed you beyond the
reach of God's love and forgiveness.
And maybe on top of that, maybe you've foundyourself giving into temptation and feeling
like you will never overcome the power oftemptations and sin.
(00:26):
Perhaps you feel trapped in a cycle of guiltand shame, wondering if you'll ever find the
strength to break free.
While these are common experiences for everyChristian for the last 2000 years.
But what if God had a solution, a peaceinducing, love producing answer?
As we start our conversation in Romanseight.
We cover these questions and look at theamazing freedom that God is inviting us into.
(00:49):
My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be yourhost.
And joining me on today's episode is Markfields.
But before we get into today's discussion,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Corrie O'Hair: Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (01:08):
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For the law of the spirit of life in ChristJesus has set you free from the law of sin
and of death. For what the law could not do,weak as it was through the flesh God did,
sending his own son in the likeness ofsinful flesh, and as an offering for sin he
condemned sin in the flesh, so that therequirement of the law might be fulfilled in
(01:32):
us, who do not walk according to the flesh,but according to the spirit.
Ross O'Hair: Hey, Mark, how's it going today? (01:42):
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Mark Fields: Hey, Ross. Pretty good. How are you doing? (01:43):
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Good.
Ross O'Hair: All right. So we are jumping into Romans eight. (01:45):
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It's good to have you in.
Mark Fields: Good to be here. Yeah. (01:48):
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Ross O'Hair: So we've been doing this a lot. (01:49):
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We've been noticing that Paul does a lot oftransitions, and he does it from chapter to
chapter. A lot of the times.
So in chapter eight it's no different.
Where is he transitioning us from 7 to 8.
What's going on here?
Mark Fields: Okay, so in Romans 5-6, Paul describes what God has done to justify us. (02:01):
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When we place our faith in God's saving workin Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven and
our old sin sinner self has been crucifiedand removed forever.
Now we can be alive to Christ in our newself, our new nature.
But then in Romans seven, Paul describes hisstruggle as to how to live in the reality of
(02:23):
Romans five and six.
So now in Romans eight, we get to talk aboutthe how.
How can we live in truth and freedom statedin Romans five and six.
You know, Romans eight has a lot of greattruths.
How much time do we have?
Ross O'Hair: 15-20 minutes. (02:37):
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Mark Fields: Okay. And this is going to be six episodes instead of the four. (02:38):
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So as not to get lost in all these greattruths.
Um, I want us to focus, though, on the theunderlying thread that really emphasizes or
gives the power to these truths.
Okay. You know, in the first seven chaptersof Romans, the word spirit appears only four
times, not once in Romans six, which is apowerful chapter.
(03:00):
But we see it in Romans 8 eighteen times insome form of the spirit of the Lord, to the
Spirit of Christ or the Holy Spirit.
So there's got to be something to that.
There must be something very effective andpowerful to the presence of the Holy Spirit,
and how he's now going to bring us into thisfreedom.
Yeah. Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So, I mean, as you bring that up, obviously Paul's changing or changing his focus of what (03:16):
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he's trying to do, like where he's takingus, like you said, the how is what he's
focusing on in chapter eight.
So I'm sure he's going to answer thequestion how with, you know, the spirit or
something like that. So where is he going?
Mark Fields: Okay. So to discuss the first four verses of Romans eight, we need to back up a little bit (03:33):
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to Romans 7:24-25.
In those verses, Paul ended that chapterkind of discouragingly so but he said,
wretched man that I am, who will set me freefrom the body of this death?
And then verse 25, though thanks be to Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord.
(03:54):
So then on the one hand, I myself, with mymind, am serving the law of God, but on the
other with my flesh, the law of sin.
So in verse 24, he verbalizes hisdesperation, his cry of despair, which is
right where God wants us, actually right.
But. And now Paul answers his own questionin verse 25.
The answer is in Jesus Christ.
But what does that mean? And how do Ibelieve that Paul has already said that we
(04:17):
can't set ourselves free?
The law can't, flesh can't.
And so when I think of the term setting usfree, I envision a prison.
And so in this episode, I want to talk abouttwo prisons that God is setting us free from
through the Holy Spirit.
Anyway, the first prison is the feeling ofbeing alone or abandoned.
Do you ever feel like that?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Satan wants us there.
(04:38):
He wants us to live there and dwell therethat God has left us, or turned his back, or
looked away in disgust, or even just shakeshis head at us and just says, oh man, you're
never going to get this right?
Because one of Satan's favorite strategiesis to create in our minds a distance between
us and God.
Ross O'Hair: Well, it's almost like in Paul's hearing that accusation in Romans 7:24. (04:53):
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Wretched man. You know, like you, you thinkthat self-condemnation this aloneness, this
I'm not worthy kind of idea, and you kind ofhear that in his voice, and then it's
answering that in Romans eight as well.
Mark Fields: Right there. Yes, yes. Good. (05:09):
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Good point. He does leave that with a senseof aloneness and abandonment.
And then he comes in, though the first pointhe makes is that God does not condemn us when
he says, there is therefore now nocondemnation in Christ Jesus our Lord,
because the sense of condemnation that wefail God, that he disapproves us, or that he
even pushes us away or judges us in someway, that's going to leave us a feeling of
(05:32):
being alone and abandoned. We're, we'rewe're by ourselves.
Yeah, it's up to us to fix this or figure itout.
So when he says that there is therefore nowno condemnation, there's some powerful words
in that very short verse.
Yeah. The first is no.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (05:43):
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Mark Fields: It means what it says. (05:45):
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Yeah. There is no condemnation.
Not my past sins.
Of course not my current sin.
I'm not right now, thank you very much.
But. And not my future sin.
Nothing I can ever do will cause hisdisapproval or turn away from me, or setting
any kind of distance from me ofcondemnation.
Yeah. So I can know that I have hiscontinual presence with me.
(06:08):
I'm not alone.
Mhm. Um, and so to prevent these feelings ofguilt, shame and abandonment, I've learned to
quote this verse in the moment I state tomyself that truth in eight one, emphasizing
certain words, I say to myself, there istherefore now no condemnation.
And now means right now.
Every time you say that word, it means it'sso.
(06:29):
Right now is now, now is now.
So every time I read this sentence or say itto myself, it's true for me right now and I
can just step into that moment, know rightnow, in this moment, God is not condemning
me, and there's nothing in my life that hewould condemn me for.
Ross O'Hair: Right? And that's so freeing. I mean, as you're saying, that it really rings true (06:44):
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Because as you said, the enemy is one of hisgreatest tactic is to condemn us, accuse us,
attack us.
I mean, it's one of the most well knownverses in all of the Bible.
You know what we're talking about.
But to have it being such a promise that wecan stand on it is literally like like you
(07:04):
said, it can be a prison.
If we feel that there is condemnation, thatthere's things being held against us.
But the moment that we have no condemnation,it is kind of like we're being freed from
that prison.
Mark Fields: Yes. And I've experienced that. (07:14):
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I'll state this later in an illustration oran example of my own life.
But as soon as I claim that and lean intoit, my whole body just starts to relax and I
just sense his peace come over me that he'sthere.
He's present.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, 100%. (07:27):
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Mark Fields: Yep. Okay. Okay. (07:27):
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And now the second prison that we're setfree from is described in verses 2 to 4.
When sin continues to overwhelm us, we feelweak.
We feel powerless.
We feel defeated.
We're crippled, debilitated, in a prison ofhelplessness and defeat.
So the first one was when was being aloneand abandoned.
This one now is feeling weak and powerlessand defeated.
(07:48):
Before I address the freedom from powerlessin defeat, let's explore the meaning of some
of these words again. We could spend a lotof time on these, just these three verses.
I'm going to have to dwell on just a few ofthem.
Okay, so verse two says, for the law of thespirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you
free from the law of sin and death.
Now that word law here does not mean law asin rules, as in you broke the law by driving
(08:09):
over the speed limit, right?
And we won't go there today.
Ross O'Hair: The word. How do you know? (08:12):
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I know, I know.
Mark Fields: Getting here today. The word law here means principle. (08:14):
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Principle means the way something operatesor what makes something work.
We're very familiar with the term the law ofgravity.
Right. And this isn't a rule that has to beobeyed or disobeyed.
It simply means this is the way that gravityworks or operates.
If I held a pin here and let go of it, itwould it would drop down, not go up.
(08:35):
And so another way to say this verse is tosay the way the spirit of life in Christ
Jesus operates has set us free from the waysin and death operates.
The spirit of life here is a Holy Spirit, ofcourse, operating in the context of
everything accomplished in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: So when you say the way of the spirit of life operates has set us free. (08:52):
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Well, explain that a little bit more,because that's such a it seems like there's
going to be so much packed into that.
What does that.
Mark Fields: Mean? Yeah, yeah, there is a lot in there. (09:02):
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I'm going to give some contrastingstatements to see the differences of those
two. Okay. And actually these twoprinciples, they began back in the Garden of
Eden as a tree of life and the tree of theknowledge of good and evil.
And we addressed that in living in Jesus inchapter five.
Yeah. And it's also very similar, if notidentical to the distinctions that we make in
chapter 11 of hearing God's voice betweenGod's voice and Satan's voice.
Ross O'Hair: The intimacy with God chapter. (09:26):
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Mark Fields: Yes, yes, yes. So let me just describe a couple of the contrasting styles. (09:27):
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Okay. Um, here's how the spirit of life inChrist Jesus operates and in contrast, how
the spirit of sin and death operates.
The spirit of life in Christ is based onwhat God did through Jesus Christ and is
doing through the spirit.
And on the other hand, this principle of sinand death are based on what you must do.
Ross O'Hair: So it's a contrasting about what God did and what I do, as opposed to what I'm doing in my (09:47):
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own strength. Yes. Got it.
Okay.
Mark Fields: The spirit of life in Christ works in our spiritual realm from the inside. (09:53):
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The Holy Spirit talking with our spirit.
Sin and death works in your physical realmfrom the outside, using senses, memories,
programmed habits, emotions to influence us.
Ross O'Hair: I feel like that's a big one for a ton of people because obviously their emotions are (10:06):
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influencing them. The outside world, theirmemories, you know, the senses that they're
feeling and hearing and smelling.
That's what typically impacts and makespeople decide to do something or make a
choice. And again, you're saying that that'sliving from a fleshly place that leads to
death and sin, as opposed to listening tothe spirit inside of us?
(10:29):
That's the. Okay. That makes sense.
Mark Fields: And it can be so overwhelming. (10:30):
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It almost seems like God's outnumbered.
But we know that God plus one is a majority.
But anyways, all those influences.
Yes.
Ross O'Hair: Okay, that makes sense. (10:39):
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Mark Fields: Yeah. The spirit of life in Christ allows freedom, resulting in being at rest, relaxed, (10:40):
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calm, assured.
Sin and death oppresses.
It uses bondage. Obligation.
Confinement. The spirit of life assures usof God's presence and his delight in us, and
sin and death tells us that God judges usand has left us, which is what we talked
about in that first prison condemnation.
(11:00):
Yeah. All right, a couple more.
The spirit of life works in love, acceptanceand encouragement and the sin of death.
It operates out of fear, anxiety, fretfulthoughts.
Ross O'Hair: Well, so that makes me again as I'm as I'm looking at your list here, that one stands (11:09):
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out again. And maybe because for a while inmy life I dealt with anxiety and know what
that feels like.
But I feel like a lot of times that comeswhen we're not trusting God and not accepting
his love, not truly understanding what he'sdone for us.
And that's listening to the spirit walkingwith the spirit.
(11:29):
So again, I really feel like a lot of peoplewill connect with that if we want to be free
from anxiety, which is a way of operatingout of sin and death.
A lot of times it's to understand the loveand the acceptance that God has for us to set
us free from that.
Mark Fields: Yeah, and the principle of sin, it really taps into your emotions, really heightens (11:42):
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those, which is so influential.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (11:47):
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Mark Fields: Okay. Keep going. Yeah. The spirit of life gives us hope that this moment is for our (11:48):
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good. Because God is good.
And we'll talk about that in a laterepisode.
Okay. Uh, the principle of sin and deathgives no hope and accusation that you'll
always lose this. You're not going to getthis right.
You're always going to sin and fail.
Yeah. Yeah. So we see the difference therebetween life and death and hope and despair.
(12:10):
So to explain how one principle overcomesthe other principle, which is the spirit of
life in Christ Jesus overcomes the principleof sin and death.
Um, let me use a physical illustration.
Ross O'Hair: Okay. (12:20):
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Mark Fields: All right, Ross, how high can you jump? (12:20):
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What's your vertical?
Ross O'Hair: I haven't tested it, but it's not great. (12:24):
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Mark Fields: Uh, you don't know? No. (12:26):
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Ross O'Hair: 20in. 25in. (12:27):
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Who knows?
Mark Fields: Um, well, mine's okay. (12:30):
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Never mind. And so once you get up there,how long do you stay up there?
Ross O'Hair: Oh, yeah. (12:35):
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Forever.
Mark Fields: Up, down. Yeah. (12:37):
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Ross O'Hair: Gravity doesn't work for me. (12:38):
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Mark Fields: Right away. Like you're on a bungee cord or something? (12:39):
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Yeah. Okay.
And, you know, I don't care if you're LeBronJames, Michael Jordan or even Messi in his
prime. No matter how high you can jump.
44, 46, 48, vertical inches, you'll alwayscome down.
Yeah, that's the law of gravity.
You're being governed by the law of gravity.
Ross O'Hair: Yes. Unfortunately. (12:56):
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Mark Fields: Yes yes, yes. (12:57):
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Yeah. If you want to break free from the lawof gravity, you have to operate in another
law of physics. And that's what we know asthe law of aerodynamics.
That's what makes airplanes fly.
Yeah. And we won't get into the specifics ofthe formula and all that, but we know it goes
fast and there's wings on it.
And as it goes faster, it starts to lift offthe ground and takes you above gravity.
Mhm. And so that's how an airplane can leavethe ground and fly us to other places and
(13:22):
very quickly.
This is a physical example of how oneprinciple can overcome another.
How the way the spirit of life operates andcan free us from the spirit of sin and death.
An add on illustration to this is okay anairplane can lift you from gravity and you
can break free of it.
But let's say you want to break free fromgravity.
And you go to the airport and you watch someairplanes take off, and that's cool watching
(13:44):
them go up and come down and all that.
But you're not enjoying that freedom andthat overcoming power of the principle.
What do you have to do to enjoy that?
Ross O'Hair: You got to buy a ticket and get on the plane. (13:53):
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Mark Fields: Yeah. You have to trust the ability of the plane, the crew and everything else and then (13:55):
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actually sit in the chair, buckle up and letit take you off.
And that's where faith is involved.
I need to believe this and then act on itand set my mind on the power and the and the
principle of what God did in me.
Ross O'Hair: Now that illustration makes me think of salvation. (14:10):
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Okay, I'm going to trust God with with mysalvation.
Not going to hell. So I'm going to get onthe quote unquote plane of salvation.
But you're talking about more than justsalvation.
You're talking about day to day living too,right?
Mark Fields: Yes. This is claiming and living in that power of freedom, of how the spirit in me (14:24):
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that's based on what God did, gives me thatability to live in the moment, in his power
and his presence, and overcome the sin thatwould overcome me so easily.
Ross O'Hair: Got it. So it's a moment by moment choice of am I going to stay in the airport and watch (14:38):
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the airplane and experience sin and deaththat way you know, or experience gravity?
Or am I going to get on the plane andexperience freedom from that?
And so I guess the way we bridge this gap isokay, I understand the principle of that, and
I understand that it's a there's a belief Ihave to have that the plane will do it.
(15:02):
And then there's a choice.
I have to have to trust that plane.
But how does that actually play out day today for us?
Because again, it's a principle we'retalking about.
But what if you're faced with parentingchoices, marriage choices, work choices, you
know, like how how do we make this actuallyreal?
Mark Fields: I know in the moment I know it. (15:18):
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Well, here's a personal application for me.
And we could apply this to every lifeactivity ones.
But I have one.
And again, lately it's been recurring for memy ability to sleep very well.
I find myself waking up sometimes.
It's 3 a.m. in the morning and I'm not readyto wake up, but I hear my mind starting its
wake up mode. I'm going. No no no, stop.
(15:39):
Slow down, slow down.
And so I'm in between this sleep and dream.
You know those foggy, semi-consciousmoments.
You don't know a dream from reality.
And you're drifting out.
And I don't know about you, Ross, but forme, that's the enemy's favorite time.
That's when he brings in a sense of despairand gloom and being overwhelmed.
And so when he's attacking me like that, andI'm going down this dark hole and I'm just
(16:01):
laying there, um, Linda's next to me.
She's sleeping soundly.
But I'm just trying to think through this.
And how do I get back to sleep?
In that moment, though, I claim, God, you'regood.
You're right here.
And I go through those truths that we talkedabout.
Of your spirit is life.
It's hope. You're working on my behalf.
You're right here with me. And in yourpresence is fullness of joy.
I do have to make a decision.
(16:21):
Then what am I going to choose to believe?
His presence and his truth and the realityof His Spirit working within me, or allow
these thoughts to keep coming in?
So by faith, I make that choice.
And I did that that morning.
And I chose to just rest in his truth andthat he will be working when I wake up to
move me through the day.
And so I a quick prayer to myself or adeclaration to myself.
(16:43):
I don't know how that moment came of realityor or decision, but I went back to sleep.
And then when I woke up two hours later, 5a.m., I went to the gym.
But anyway, I had an outlook of hope and Ididn't fuss at Linda or anything, anything
like that. We were able to just get up andhave a realistic view on what the day was
ahead of us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, so the first thing I got out of that is that Linda's more spiritual than you because (17:02):
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she sleeps longer than you.
Mark Fields: Yes. That's right. (17:07):
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She's at peace.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Um, but beyond that, you know, what I hear you saying is, like, we're faced with (17:10):
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these moments and this this opportunity forus to believe again at 3:00 in the morning.
It's really hard to, like, have all of ourbrain function, like fighting the lies.
And so it's an opportune time for the enemyto attack you.
And that makes sense.
And he's inviting you to give in to theemotions and the fear and the lies that he's
(17:35):
giving to you, as opposed to the truth ofthe freedom and the grace and the love that
God's given you, that he is good, that hedoes look at you that way.
And all of those things in that momenthappen.
And you're choosing to believe God's Word istrue.
And that can. I guess the reason I'mrehashing is because I guess that can really
be said about every experience of life, anysituation in life.
(17:58):
When we experience those emotions that comealong with it the temptation, the fear, the
disappointment, the anger, every single oneof those is an opportunity for us to do what
you did, which is to recount the truth tous, believe it and accept it, and then act on
that.
Mark Fields: Yes, yes and yeah, mine wasn't a very active moment. (18:13):
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It was just an attitude of the mind.
Sure, but an active moment.
This is really a breakdown of the mechanicsof how you choose to walk in the spirit, not
after the flesh. It's just kind of explainsit to a greater detail.
Yeah, But if the the person in front of mewon't go because the light's green and
they're still looking at their text, and Iknow I'm not going to make the light because
(18:33):
they're taking their time.
I have a moment right there.
Am I going to choose to walk in the spiritor after the flesh?
Will the principle of the spirit of life inChrist Jesus overcome the spirit of sin and
death in that moment?
Ross O'Hair: Right. And I think what's incredible is sometimes people might be like, well, I don't (18:44):
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know if I'm listening to the Spirit of Lifeor if I'm listening to the Spirit of Death,
maybe. And there's areas of my life whereI'm not I haven't discerned that well enough.
The spirit hasn't taught me in that momentyet.
Right. And so maybe some of that list yougave earlier really to me rings true now,
because if we go back and look at what thespirit of life is, which is love, acceptance,
(19:06):
encouragement, it's the assurance of God'spresence and delight in us.
It's it's that it's freedom and rest andrelaxation and calm and assurance.
All of those things are what manifest whenwe're listening to the spirit.
And if it's the opposite, the anxiety, thefear, the the negative emotions.
Or there's a, you know, again, our sensesand our memories are all playing into what
(19:28):
we're deciding to do.
Then we know it's not the spirit of life.
Is that kind of how we can discern that?
Yes, yes.
Mark Fields: And the encouraging thing is, in the beginning times, as you operate under this (19:33):
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principle, you're overthinking it or you'rewondering which is which.
But the more you do it, the more familiaryou are.
You are with his voice, and you recognize itmore easily, more readily.
Ross O'Hair: Right. And the great thing is, this brings back to the conversation I had with Tom in (19:47):
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Romans five, where this the the attitude orthe spirit of grace allows us to mess up.
Yeah. We're still learning how to walk bythe spirit every moment.
And so even if we don't know how to do that,there's still grace for that in that moment.
And God's going to use that to teach us.
Yes.
Mark Fields: Amen. (20:05):
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Ross O'Hair: Awesome. So if we had a major takeaway for the first four verses of Romans eight, what (20:05):
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would they be?
Mark Fields: Yeah. Okay. God has set us free from feeling condemned, alone and helpless. (20:09):
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He provides his presence and power in eachmoment of our lives, and especially during
temptations. Jesus accomplished it, and nowthe Holy Spirit confirms it in us.
We experience this freedom as we trust thatGod is right there with us and empowers us to
trust him and enjoy his life.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So good. (20:31):
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Awesome, Mark. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much. I mean, what a, you know,well-known verse, but really so much in it,
so much that we can really change our lives,change the way we live.
And again, as we continue to learn what itlooks like to walk by the spirit.
Hopefully this will really help give somepeople some guidance and really appreciate
your time. Thank you. Thank you Ross.
And guys, thank you so much for listening totoday's episode.
(20:52):
We hope you enjoyed it and we will be backnext week for the next part of Romans eight.
And we'll see you next week on the Living inJesus podcast.
undefined
Have you ever felt that God has condemnedyou, judged you, left you alone?
Maybe you've struggled with the belief thatyour mistakes have pushed you beyond the
reach of God's love and forgiveness.
And maybe on top of that, maybe you've foundyourself giving into temptation and feeling
like you will never overcome the power oftemptations and sin.
(00:26):
Perhaps you feel trapped in a cycle of guiltand shame, wondering if you'll ever find the
strength to break free.
While these are common experiences for everyChristian for the last 2000 years.
But what if God had a solution, a peaceinducing, love producing answer?
As we start our conversation in Romanseight.
We cover these questions and look at theamazing freedom that God is inviting us into.
(00:49):
My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be yourhost.
And joining me on today's episode is Markfields.
But before we get into today's discussion,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Corrie O'Hair: Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (01:08):
undefined
For the law of the spirit of life in ChristJesus has set you free from the law of sin
and of death. For what the law could not do,weak as it was through the flesh God did,
sending his own son in the likeness ofsinful flesh, and as an offering for sin he
condemned sin in the flesh, so that therequirement of the law might be fulfilled in
(01:32):
us, who do not walk according to the flesh,but according to the spirit.
Ross O'Hair: Hey, Mark, how's it going today? (01:42):
undefined
Mark Fields: Hey, Ross. Pretty good. How are you doing? (01:43):
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Good.
Ross O'Hair: All right. So we are jumping into Romans eight. (01:45):
undefined
It's good to have you in.
Mark Fields: Good to be here. Yeah. (01:48):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: So we've been doing this a lot. (01:49):
undefined
We've been noticing that Paul does a lot oftransitions, and he does it from chapter to
chapter. A lot of the times.
So in chapter eight it's no different.
Where is he transitioning us from 7 to 8.
What's going on here?
Mark Fields: Okay, so in Romans 5-6, Paul describes what God has done to justify us. (02:01):
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When we place our faith in God's saving workin Jesus Christ, our sins are forgiven and
our old sin sinner self has been crucifiedand removed forever.
Now we can be alive to Christ in our newself, our new nature.
But then in Romans seven, Paul describes hisstruggle as to how to live in the reality of
(02:23):
Romans five and six.
So now in Romans eight, we get to talk aboutthe how.
How can we live in truth and freedom statedin Romans five and six.
You know, Romans eight has a lot of greattruths.
How much time do we have?
Ross O'Hair: 15-20 minutes. (02:37):
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Mark Fields: Okay. And this is going to be six episodes instead of the four. (02:38):
undefined
So as not to get lost in all these greattruths.
Um, I want us to focus, though, on the theunderlying thread that really emphasizes or
gives the power to these truths.
Okay. You know, in the first seven chaptersof Romans, the word spirit appears only four
times, not once in Romans six, which is apowerful chapter.
(03:00):
But we see it in Romans 8 eighteen times insome form of the spirit of the Lord, to the
Spirit of Christ or the Holy Spirit.
So there's got to be something to that.
There must be something very effective andpowerful to the presence of the Holy Spirit,
and how he's now going to bring us into thisfreedom.
Yeah. Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So, I mean, as you bring that up, obviously Paul's changing or changing his focus of what (03:16):
undefined
he's trying to do, like where he's takingus, like you said, the how is what he's
focusing on in chapter eight.
So I'm sure he's going to answer thequestion how with, you know, the spirit or
something like that. So where is he going?
Mark Fields: Okay. So to discuss the first four verses of Romans eight, we need to back up a little bit (03:33):
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to Romans 7:24-25.
In those verses, Paul ended that chapterkind of discouragingly so but he said,
wretched man that I am, who will set me freefrom the body of this death?
And then verse 25, though thanks be to Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord.
(03:54):
So then on the one hand, I myself, with mymind, am serving the law of God, but on the
other with my flesh, the law of sin.
So in verse 24, he verbalizes hisdesperation, his cry of despair, which is
right where God wants us, actually right.
But. And now Paul answers his own questionin verse 25.
The answer is in Jesus Christ.
But what does that mean? And how do Ibelieve that Paul has already said that we
(04:17):
can't set ourselves free?
The law can't, flesh can't.
And so when I think of the term setting usfree, I envision a prison.
And so in this episode, I want to talk abouttwo prisons that God is setting us free from
through the Holy Spirit.
Anyway, the first prison is the feeling ofbeing alone or abandoned.
Do you ever feel like that?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Satan wants us there.
(04:38):
He wants us to live there and dwell therethat God has left us, or turned his back, or
looked away in disgust, or even just shakeshis head at us and just says, oh man, you're
never going to get this right?
Because one of Satan's favorite strategiesis to create in our minds a distance between
us and God.
Ross O'Hair: Well, it's almost like in Paul's hearing that accusation in Romans 7:24. (04:53):
undefined
Wretched man. You know, like you, you thinkthat self-condemnation this aloneness, this
I'm not worthy kind of idea, and you kind ofhear that in his voice, and then it's
answering that in Romans eight as well.
Mark Fields: Right there. Yes, yes. Good. (05:09):
undefined
Good point. He does leave that with a senseof aloneness and abandonment.
And then he comes in, though the first pointhe makes is that God does not condemn us when
he says, there is therefore now nocondemnation in Christ Jesus our Lord,
because the sense of condemnation that wefail God, that he disapproves us, or that he
even pushes us away or judges us in someway, that's going to leave us a feeling of
(05:32):
being alone and abandoned. We're, we'rewe're by ourselves.
Yeah, it's up to us to fix this or figure itout.
So when he says that there is therefore nowno condemnation, there's some powerful words
in that very short verse.
Yeah. The first is no.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (05:43):
undefined
Mark Fields: It means what it says. (05:45):
undefined
Yeah. There is no condemnation.
Not my past sins.
Of course not my current sin.
I'm not right now, thank you very much.
But. And not my future sin.
Nothing I can ever do will cause hisdisapproval or turn away from me, or setting
any kind of distance from me ofcondemnation.
Yeah. So I can know that I have hiscontinual presence with me.
(06:08):
I'm not alone.
Mhm. Um, and so to prevent these feelings ofguilt, shame and abandonment, I've learned to
quote this verse in the moment I state tomyself that truth in eight one, emphasizing
certain words, I say to myself, there istherefore now no condemnation.
And now means right now.
Every time you say that word, it means it'sso.
(06:29):
Right now is now, now is now.
So every time I read this sentence or say itto myself, it's true for me right now and I
can just step into that moment, know rightnow, in this moment, God is not condemning
me, and there's nothing in my life that hewould condemn me for.
Ross O'Hair: Right? And that's so freeing. I mean, as you're saying, that it really rings true (06:44):
undefined
Because as you said, the enemy is one of hisgreatest tactic is to condemn us, accuse us,
attack us.
I mean, it's one of the most well knownverses in all of the Bible.
You know what we're talking about.
But to have it being such a promise that wecan stand on it is literally like like you
(07:04):
said, it can be a prison.
If we feel that there is condemnation, thatthere's things being held against us.
But the moment that we have no condemnation,it is kind of like we're being freed from
that prison.
Mark Fields: Yes. And I've experienced that. (07:14):
undefined
I'll state this later in an illustration oran example of my own life.
But as soon as I claim that and lean intoit, my whole body just starts to relax and I
just sense his peace come over me that he'sthere.
He's present.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, 100%. (07:27):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yep. Okay. Okay. (07:27):
undefined
And now the second prison that we're setfree from is described in verses 2 to 4.
When sin continues to overwhelm us, we feelweak.
We feel powerless.
We feel defeated.
We're crippled, debilitated, in a prison ofhelplessness and defeat.
So the first one was when was being aloneand abandoned.
This one now is feeling weak and powerlessand defeated.
(07:48):
Before I address the freedom from powerlessin defeat, let's explore the meaning of some
of these words again. We could spend a lotof time on these, just these three verses.
I'm going to have to dwell on just a few ofthem.
Okay, so verse two says, for the law of thespirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you
free from the law of sin and death.
Now that word law here does not mean law asin rules, as in you broke the law by driving
(08:09):
over the speed limit, right?
And we won't go there today.
Ross O'Hair: The word. How do you know? (08:12):
undefined
I know, I know.
Mark Fields: Getting here today. The word law here means principle. (08:14):
undefined
Principle means the way something operatesor what makes something work.
We're very familiar with the term the law ofgravity.
Right. And this isn't a rule that has to beobeyed or disobeyed.
It simply means this is the way that gravityworks or operates.
If I held a pin here and let go of it, itwould it would drop down, not go up.
(08:35):
And so another way to say this verse is tosay the way the spirit of life in Christ
Jesus operates has set us free from the waysin and death operates.
The spirit of life here is a Holy Spirit, ofcourse, operating in the context of
everything accomplished in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: So when you say the way of the spirit of life operates has set us free. (08:52):
undefined
Well, explain that a little bit more,because that's such a it seems like there's
going to be so much packed into that.
What does that.
Mark Fields: Mean? Yeah, yeah, there is a lot in there. (09:02):
undefined
I'm going to give some contrastingstatements to see the differences of those
two. Okay. And actually these twoprinciples, they began back in the Garden of
Eden as a tree of life and the tree of theknowledge of good and evil.
And we addressed that in living in Jesus inchapter five.
Yeah. And it's also very similar, if notidentical to the distinctions that we make in
chapter 11 of hearing God's voice betweenGod's voice and Satan's voice.
Ross O'Hair: The intimacy with God chapter. (09:26):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yes, yes, yes. So let me just describe a couple of the contrasting styles. (09:27):
undefined
Okay. Um, here's how the spirit of life inChrist Jesus operates and in contrast, how
the spirit of sin and death operates.
The spirit of life in Christ is based onwhat God did through Jesus Christ and is
doing through the spirit.
And on the other hand, this principle of sinand death are based on what you must do.
Ross O'Hair: So it's a contrasting about what God did and what I do, as opposed to what I'm doing in my (09:47):
undefined
own strength. Yes. Got it.
Okay.
Mark Fields: The spirit of life in Christ works in our spiritual realm from the inside. (09:53):
undefined
The Holy Spirit talking with our spirit.
Sin and death works in your physical realmfrom the outside, using senses, memories,
programmed habits, emotions to influence us.
Ross O'Hair: I feel like that's a big one for a ton of people because obviously their emotions are (10:06):
undefined
influencing them. The outside world, theirmemories, you know, the senses that they're
feeling and hearing and smelling.
That's what typically impacts and makespeople decide to do something or make a
choice. And again, you're saying that that'sliving from a fleshly place that leads to
death and sin, as opposed to listening tothe spirit inside of us?
(10:29):
That's the. Okay. That makes sense.
Mark Fields: And it can be so overwhelming. (10:30):
undefined
It almost seems like God's outnumbered.
But we know that God plus one is a majority.
But anyways, all those influences.
Yes.
Ross O'Hair: Okay, that makes sense. (10:39):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. The spirit of life in Christ allows freedom, resulting in being at rest, relaxed, (10:40):
undefined
calm, assured.
Sin and death oppresses.
It uses bondage. Obligation.
Confinement. The spirit of life assures usof God's presence and his delight in us, and
sin and death tells us that God judges usand has left us, which is what we talked
about in that first prison condemnation.
(11:00):
Yeah. All right, a couple more.
The spirit of life works in love, acceptanceand encouragement and the sin of death.
It operates out of fear, anxiety, fretfulthoughts.
Ross O'Hair: Well, so that makes me again as I'm as I'm looking at your list here, that one stands (11:09):
undefined
out again. And maybe because for a while inmy life I dealt with anxiety and know what
that feels like.
But I feel like a lot of times that comeswhen we're not trusting God and not accepting
his love, not truly understanding what he'sdone for us.
And that's listening to the spirit walkingwith the spirit.
(11:29):
So again, I really feel like a lot of peoplewill connect with that if we want to be free
from anxiety, which is a way of operatingout of sin and death.
A lot of times it's to understand the loveand the acceptance that God has for us to set
us free from that.
Mark Fields: Yeah, and the principle of sin, it really taps into your emotions, really heightens (11:42):
undefined
those, which is so influential.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (11:47):
undefined
Mark Fields: Okay. Keep going. Yeah. The spirit of life gives us hope that this moment is for our (11:48):
undefined
good. Because God is good.
And we'll talk about that in a laterepisode.
Okay. Uh, the principle of sin and deathgives no hope and accusation that you'll
always lose this. You're not going to getthis right.
You're always going to sin and fail.
Yeah. Yeah. So we see the difference therebetween life and death and hope and despair.
(12:10):
So to explain how one principle overcomesthe other principle, which is the spirit of
life in Christ Jesus overcomes the principleof sin and death.
Um, let me use a physical illustration.
Ross O'Hair: Okay. (12:20):
undefined
Mark Fields: All right, Ross, how high can you jump? (12:20):
undefined
What's your vertical?
Ross O'Hair: I haven't tested it, but it's not great. (12:24):
undefined
Mark Fields: Uh, you don't know? No. (12:26):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: 20in. 25in. (12:27):
undefined
Who knows?
Mark Fields: Um, well, mine's okay. (12:30):
undefined
Never mind. And so once you get up there,how long do you stay up there?
Ross O'Hair: Oh, yeah. (12:35):
undefined
Forever.
Mark Fields: Up, down. Yeah. (12:37):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Gravity doesn't work for me. (12:38):
undefined
Mark Fields: Right away. Like you're on a bungee cord or something? (12:39):
undefined
Yeah. Okay.
And, you know, I don't care if you're LeBronJames, Michael Jordan or even Messi in his
prime. No matter how high you can jump.
44, 46, 48, vertical inches, you'll alwayscome down.
Yeah, that's the law of gravity.
You're being governed by the law of gravity.
Ross O'Hair: Yes. Unfortunately. (12:56):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yes yes, yes. (12:57):
undefined
Yeah. If you want to break free from the lawof gravity, you have to operate in another
law of physics. And that's what we know asthe law of aerodynamics.
That's what makes airplanes fly.
Yeah. And we won't get into the specifics ofthe formula and all that, but we know it goes
fast and there's wings on it.
And as it goes faster, it starts to lift offthe ground and takes you above gravity.
Mhm. And so that's how an airplane can leavethe ground and fly us to other places and
(13:22):
very quickly.
This is a physical example of how oneprinciple can overcome another.
How the way the spirit of life operates andcan free us from the spirit of sin and death.
An add on illustration to this is okay anairplane can lift you from gravity and you
can break free of it.
But let's say you want to break free fromgravity.
And you go to the airport and you watch someairplanes take off, and that's cool watching
(13:44):
them go up and come down and all that.
But you're not enjoying that freedom andthat overcoming power of the principle.
What do you have to do to enjoy that?
Ross O'Hair: You got to buy a ticket and get on the plane. (13:53):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. You have to trust the ability of the plane, the crew and everything else and then (13:55):
undefined
actually sit in the chair, buckle up and letit take you off.
And that's where faith is involved.
I need to believe this and then act on itand set my mind on the power and the and the
principle of what God did in me.
Ross O'Hair: Now that illustration makes me think of salvation. (14:10):
undefined
Okay, I'm going to trust God with with mysalvation.
Not going to hell. So I'm going to get onthe quote unquote plane of salvation.
But you're talking about more than justsalvation.
You're talking about day to day living too,right?
Mark Fields: Yes. This is claiming and living in that power of freedom, of how the spirit in me (14:24):
undefined
that's based on what God did, gives me thatability to live in the moment, in his power
and his presence, and overcome the sin thatwould overcome me so easily.
Ross O'Hair: Got it. So it's a moment by moment choice of am I going to stay in the airport and watch (14:38):
undefined
the airplane and experience sin and deaththat way you know, or experience gravity?
Or am I going to get on the plane andexperience freedom from that?
And so I guess the way we bridge this gap isokay, I understand the principle of that, and
I understand that it's a there's a belief Ihave to have that the plane will do it.
(15:02):
And then there's a choice.
I have to have to trust that plane.
But how does that actually play out day today for us?
Because again, it's a principle we'retalking about.
But what if you're faced with parentingchoices, marriage choices, work choices, you
know, like how how do we make this actuallyreal?
Mark Fields: I know in the moment I know it. (15:18):
undefined
Well, here's a personal application for me.
And we could apply this to every lifeactivity ones.
But I have one.
And again, lately it's been recurring for memy ability to sleep very well.
I find myself waking up sometimes.
It's 3 a.m. in the morning and I'm not readyto wake up, but I hear my mind starting its
wake up mode. I'm going. No no no, stop.
(15:39):
Slow down, slow down.
And so I'm in between this sleep and dream.
You know those foggy, semi-consciousmoments.
You don't know a dream from reality.
And you're drifting out.
And I don't know about you, Ross, but forme, that's the enemy's favorite time.
That's when he brings in a sense of despairand gloom and being overwhelmed.
And so when he's attacking me like that, andI'm going down this dark hole and I'm just
(16:01):
laying there, um, Linda's next to me.
She's sleeping soundly.
But I'm just trying to think through this.
And how do I get back to sleep?
In that moment, though, I claim, God, you'regood.
You're right here.
And I go through those truths that we talkedabout.
Of your spirit is life.
It's hope. You're working on my behalf.
You're right here with me. And in yourpresence is fullness of joy.
I do have to make a decision.
(16:21):
Then what am I going to choose to believe?
His presence and his truth and the realityof His Spirit working within me, or allow
these thoughts to keep coming in?
So by faith, I make that choice.
And I did that that morning.
And I chose to just rest in his truth andthat he will be working when I wake up to
move me through the day.
And so I a quick prayer to myself or adeclaration to myself.
(16:43):
I don't know how that moment came of realityor or decision, but I went back to sleep.
And then when I woke up two hours later, 5a.m., I went to the gym.
But anyway, I had an outlook of hope and Ididn't fuss at Linda or anything, anything
like that. We were able to just get up andhave a realistic view on what the day was
ahead of us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, so the first thing I got out of that is that Linda's more spiritual than you because (17:02):
undefined
she sleeps longer than you.
Mark Fields: Yes. That's right. (17:07):
undefined
She's at peace.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Um, but beyond that, you know, what I hear you saying is, like, we're faced with (17:10):
undefined
these moments and this this opportunity forus to believe again at 3:00 in the morning.
It's really hard to, like, have all of ourbrain function, like fighting the lies.
And so it's an opportune time for the enemyto attack you.
And that makes sense.
And he's inviting you to give in to theemotions and the fear and the lies that he's
(17:35):
giving to you, as opposed to the truth ofthe freedom and the grace and the love that
God's given you, that he is good, that hedoes look at you that way.
And all of those things in that momenthappen.
And you're choosing to believe God's Word istrue.
And that can. I guess the reason I'mrehashing is because I guess that can really
be said about every experience of life, anysituation in life.
(17:58):
When we experience those emotions that comealong with it the temptation, the fear, the
disappointment, the anger, every single oneof those is an opportunity for us to do what
you did, which is to recount the truth tous, believe it and accept it, and then act on
that.
Mark Fields: Yes, yes and yeah, mine wasn't a very active moment. (18:13):
undefined
It was just an attitude of the mind.
Sure, but an active moment.
This is really a breakdown of the mechanicsof how you choose to walk in the spirit, not
after the flesh. It's just kind of explainsit to a greater detail.
Yeah, But if the the person in front of mewon't go because the light's green and
they're still looking at their text, and Iknow I'm not going to make the light because
(18:33):
they're taking their time.
I have a moment right there.
Am I going to choose to walk in the spiritor after the flesh?
Will the principle of the spirit of life inChrist Jesus overcome the spirit of sin and
death in that moment?
Ross O'Hair: Right. And I think what's incredible is sometimes people might be like, well, I don't (18:44):
undefined
know if I'm listening to the Spirit of Lifeor if I'm listening to the Spirit of Death,
maybe. And there's areas of my life whereI'm not I haven't discerned that well enough.
The spirit hasn't taught me in that momentyet.
Right. And so maybe some of that list yougave earlier really to me rings true now,
because if we go back and look at what thespirit of life is, which is love, acceptance,
(19:06):
encouragement, it's the assurance of God'spresence and delight in us.
It's it's that it's freedom and rest andrelaxation and calm and assurance.
All of those things are what manifest whenwe're listening to the spirit.
And if it's the opposite, the anxiety, thefear, the the negative emotions.
Or there's a, you know, again, our sensesand our memories are all playing into what
(19:28):
we're deciding to do.
Then we know it's not the spirit of life.
Is that kind of how we can discern that?
Yes, yes.
Mark Fields: And the encouraging thing is, in the beginning times, as you operate under this (19:33):
undefined
principle, you're overthinking it or you'rewondering which is which.
But the more you do it, the more familiaryou are.
You are with his voice, and you recognize itmore easily, more readily.
Ross O'Hair: Right. And the great thing is, this brings back to the conversation I had with Tom in (19:47):
undefined
Romans five, where this the the attitude orthe spirit of grace allows us to mess up.
Yeah. We're still learning how to walk bythe spirit every moment.
And so even if we don't know how to do that,there's still grace for that in that moment.
And God's going to use that to teach us.
Yes.
Mark Fields: Amen. (20:05):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Awesome. So if we had a major takeaway for the first four verses of Romans eight, what (20:05):
undefined
would they be?
Mark Fields: Yeah. Okay. God has set us free from feeling condemned, alone and helpless. (20:09):
undefined
He provides his presence and power in eachmoment of our lives, and especially during
temptations. Jesus accomplished it, and nowthe Holy Spirit confirms it in us.
We experience this freedom as we trust thatGod is right there with us and empowers us to
trust him and enjoy his life.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So good. (20:31):
undefined
Awesome, Mark. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much. I mean, what a, you know,well-known verse, but really so much in it,
so much that we can really change our lives,change the way we live.
And again, as we continue to learn what itlooks like to walk by the spirit.
Hopefully this will really help give somepeople some guidance and really appreciate
your time. Thank you. Thank you Ross.
And guys, thank you so much for listening totoday's episode.
(20:52):
We hope you enjoyed it and we will be backnext week for the next part of Romans eight.
And we'll see you next week on the Living inJesus podcast.
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