November 14, 2024 • 16 mins
In this episode, Ross O’Hair and Tom Price dive into Romans 7:7-13 to explore one of the more challenging aspects of faith: the tension between God’s perfect law and our human inability to follow it. Through relatable stories and insightful analogies, Ross and Tom unpack why our best self-efforts inevitably fall short of God’s standard, and why that realization is actually a profound blessing. Listeners will gain a fresh perspective on the purpose of the law—as a mirror that reveals our need for grace—and discover the freedom that comes when we rely on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of striving on our own. If you've ever felt burdened by trying to be "good enough," this episode will offer you relief, clarity, and a renewed understanding of how God’s grace empowers us to live righteously.
Key Verses:
Romans 7:7-13: "What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.' But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good."
Quotes:
“The law is holy and perfect, but self-effort can never fulfill it. Instead, it often brings out our sin nature.”
“The law is like a mirror: it reveals where we fall short but has no power to make us righteous.”
“Grace always focuses on righteousness, while the law keeps our focus on sin and self-effort.”
Key Points:
- The law reveals sin but cannot empower us to live righteously.
- Self-effort in following the law often leads to more sin, not less.
- True righteousness is achieved by relying on the Holy Spirit, not our self-strength.
Outline:
- Introduction (00:00)
- Scripture Reading (01:02)
- Context of Romans 5:6-11 (02:00)
- What Does It Mean to Be Saved by Christ's Life? (03:00)
- Reconciliation Through Christ's Death (04:00)
- The Two Sides of the Cross (05:00)
- Practical Example of Living Out Christ’s Life (10:02)
- How to Apply Reconciliation Daily (12:00)
- Conclusion and Major Takeaways (15:16)
Theme Music:
Here Forever by Adigold Emotional Piano and Strings by GentleJammers (all rights and licensing from Envato elements)
Hosted by: Ross O'Hair Participating Staff: Tom Price Edited by: Ross O’Hair and Ben Brezina
---
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ross O'Hair:
Hello and welcome to the Living in Jesus
podcast. (00:05):
undefined
Have you ever thought about how God's lawsare perfect and righteous, yet trying to
follow them often feels impossible?
It's like aiming for an unreachablestandard, an impossible target.
I've certainly thought a lot about thisparadox, and it's one of those things that
can leave you feeling uncertain andinadequate.
(00:26):
What about you? And here's another questionhow do you reconcile the perfection of God's
laws with the reality of our human effort tofollow them and falling short?
You see, we often find ourselves stumblingand failing to live up to those standards.
And because of that, something has to bedone to make it possible for humanity to be
made righteous.
In other words, what is God's ultimateresponse to our inability to measure up to
(00:51):
this perfect standard?
I'm Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your hosttoday.
And joining me on today's episode is TomPrice, and we're discussing Romans 7:7-13.
But before we delve into today's topic,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: From. Romans chapter seven, verses seven through 13. (01:11):
undefined
What then shall we say that the law is sin?
By no means yet.
If it had not been for the law, I would nothave known sin.
For I would not have known what it is tocovet, if the law had not said, you shall not
(01:31):
covet. But sin, seizing an opportunitythrough the commandment, produced in me all
kinds of covetousness.
For apart from the law sin lies dead.
I was once alive apart from the law.
But when the commandment came, sin camealive, and I died.
The very commandment that promised lifeproved to be death to me.
(01:54):
For sin, seizing an opportunity through thecommandment, deceived me, and through it
killed me.
So the law is holy and the commandment isholy and righteous and good.
Did that which is good then bring death tome?
By no means it was sin producing death in methrough what is good, in order that sin might
(02:14):
be shown to be sin, and through thecommandment might become sinful beyond
measure.
Ross O'Hair: All right. Hey, Tom, how are you? (02:31):
undefined
Tom Price: Hey, Ross. Good to be back. (02:33):
undefined
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we are on part two of Romans seven, and we're covering verses 7 to 13. (02:34):
undefined
And as I listen to those verses, you know, acouple of things stand out.
You know, we've talked about in last episodehow the law can't produce righteousness.
In fact, what we kind of have figured out isthat it produces more sin, right?
It shows itself.
It shows sin what it is.
(02:55):
But Paul here also says that the law is holyand perfect.
So how do we reconcile all those differentpoints?
Tom Price: Well, remember last episode that Paul told his readers that they've been released from (03:03):
undefined
the law through their crucifixion withChrist, and because they needed to be
released from the law's demanding strictrequirements, he's actually anticipating that
his readers are thinking, uh, Paul, are yousaying that the law is bad?
Yeah. So in verses seven and 13, he remindsus that the law is not bad.
(03:29):
It never has been.
The law is not the problem.
Sin is the problem, right?
So in this middle section, Paul concentratesbasically on two things.
First of all, he explains, the purpose ofthe law is to reveal sin as sinful.
And Paul even used his own struggle withcoveting as an example.
It seems the more he tried to follow the lawand not covet, the more he struggled with
(03:52):
coveting. And his conclusion is that the lawshowed him that he was dead.
But the second thing he concentrates on hereis that sin takes advantage of the law to
produce more sin.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. Well, as you're saying that, it kind of creates this confusion in my mind a (04:03):
undefined
little bit because obviously he doesn't wantto covet, but then it's producing more like,
so how can something that's good and holy,like the law, lead to a bad outcome?
Tom Price: Well, it's not really the law that encourages sinning, and that's what it might sound like, (04:18):
undefined
but that's not the issue. What the lawencourages is self-effort, and it encourages
doing the right action and avoiding thewrong action.
Ross O'Hair: Well, so you say that and my initial reaction is yeah, okay. (04:32):
undefined
Yeah. But then I'm like, but how?
Like, how does the law actually encouragethat?
Self-effort.
Tom Price: Well, look at it this way. (04:39):
undefined
There are two sources of strength we ashumans can draw from.
We can either rely on God's supernaturalstrength that is gifted to us through the
Holy Spirit, or we can rely on self-strength.
And that's a dependence on our knowledge,our intellect, our self-determination, our
will power, our ingenuity, our influence.
(05:01):
Et cetera. Et cetera. Right?
And so we're all born broken because of thefall.
I mean, that's how we come into this world.
And until we're transformed into newcreations with new hearts and godly desires,
we're stuck with this self-strength as ourresource to get our needs met.
So God's law shows what the Holy standard isand then commands us to do it.
(05:26):
If we don't have God's supernatural strengthin us, then all we have as a resource to
fulfill the holy standard is self-effort orself-strength.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. To me, that's like that's such a great thing. (05:35):
undefined
Like, we can't say that sentence enoughright there.
I don't know that we can reiterate that moretimes.
You can't measure up unless you got thatlife in you.
Tom Price: Exactly. And so remember, the Bible is very clear that reliance on self-strength is sin. (05:45):
undefined
And sin started with a lie in the Garden ofEden by Satan himself.
Yeah. And he implied to Eve that real lifecomes, from us deciding what is right and
wrong and then making our choices based onwhat we know.
(06:07):
So sin says you can accomplish getting yourneeds met through your self-effort.
And law encourages self-effort.
Sure. And that's how following the lawsleads to more sin, because the whole way of
living is purely through flesh.
It's not by the spirit at all.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I mean, I love how you say that because, you know, we're trying to accomplish (06:23):
undefined
something like we as believers, we again,we've talked about this last time.
We want to live righteously.
So there's this great desire within us.
But then the law and sin's use of that lawjust creates this.
Yeah. Self-effort striving.
Okay. I want to do this.
So I'm going to put my best effort forward.
And that really is the thing that makes usfail, like all of that together, as opposed
(06:49):
to this reliance on God's life in us.
Tom Price: And the desire is good. (06:52):
undefined
Yeah. There's nothing wrong with the desire.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Now, you said earlier that the law reveals sin as sinful. (06:54):
undefined
Like it shows it to be that.
How does it do that?
Tom Price: Well, think of the law as a measuring tape. (07:02):
undefined
Now, I'm a carpenter, and I can just glanceat a measuring tape and know what the
measurement is without even, you know,counting the hash marks.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I've seen you do it. It's nice. (07:14):
undefined
Yeah.
Tom Price: And so I use a measuring tape to determine the length or width of a cut. (07:16):
undefined
If the perfect cut for a piece of wood needsto be 12in, then the measuring tape shows me
exactly what 12in is.
Anything short of that or longer than thatmisses the mark of the perfect cut.
Mhm. And so the law like that is thestandard that shows what perfect is.
(07:41):
And so anything that falls short of perfectis sin.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: And obviously we're talking about God's design of the whole world. (07:45):
undefined
He designed things to work a certain way.
He designed us to live a certain way,relationships to work a certain way.
And so there is this, you know, perfect hasthis scary.
Again, we're talking about how scary theword is.
There has this scary connotation to it.
But like there is a way that things workperfectly or that work better, or that are
(08:06):
good for us, that are more loving inrelationships or whatever it is.
And yet, you know, it's very easy to fallshort of that and to miss that mark.
And so that's where I think that pressureand that anxiety can come from.
But what we're striving for is to fulfillGod's, you know, design in how the world
works. But the law doesn't give you thepower to actually keep those commandments or
(08:32):
fulfill that law.
Tom Price: Absolutely not. I mean, it's impossible. (08:33):
undefined
Think of it like a mirror.
Okay, so back in my earlier years now,listening audience can't see me.
I don't have hardly any hair, but I used to.
And so when I get up in the morning and I'dgo, you know, I'd go look in the mirror, and
the mirror showed me that I had bedhead andit was a mess because I had sort of curly
(08:58):
hair and it was oily, you know.
And it just you get the picture in yourhead, right?
But here's the thing.
The mirror couldn't fix it.
It showed me what the problem was.
It showed me the mess, but it couldn't fixit.
And so the law is exactly like a mirror.
It shows you where you fall short.
But it won't do anything to fix the problem.
(09:21):
And the law was like a mirror for Paul.
And the law showed Paul that he was sinfuland dead.
And that's what he says in this passage.
But it couldn't take away his sin and givehim life.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we've covered, you know, like, I love the Carpenter analogy of 12in on the measuring (09:32):
undefined
tape. It shows you exactly what the correctmeasurement is.
And then the mirror also shows you what'swrong, but neither of them have the power to
fix it. The measuring tape can't cut theboard for you.
The mirror can't fix your hair.
But you know, those are kind of justapplications or analogies.
(09:52):
Analogies? Yeah. Yeah. So what about foryou?
Like, what about a personal application.
How do we take this and apply it to uspersonally?
Tom Price: Well, I believe in this passage that Paul explains how the law showed the unbelieving, (10:00):
undefined
unredeemed Paul his need for life.
Remember, Paul said in first Timothy onenine that the law is not made for the
righteous, but for the unrighteous.
Yeah, again, I believe Paul is describinghimself as unsaved and therefore unrighteous
(10:20):
in this, in this section.
For me as a believer, though, someone who issaved, I know that the law has no purpose in
my life, because in Christ I am nowrighteous.
Now I've had to learn that over the years.
Second Peter one three says that I have beengifted everything pertaining to life and
godliness. Again, in Romans 5:17, I've beengifted righteousness, so the law isn't made
(10:43):
for me.
Ross O'Hair: Well, and I think what you said. (10:44):
undefined
I mean, I love that and I think when youhear the phrase, as a believer, the law has
no purpose for me.
Some people might be like, whoa, that soundscrazy.
You know, You grow up in, especially inAmerica in the Bible Belt.
It's like the Ten Commandments are plasteredeverywhere and the law is like you.
Even as a believer, it's hammered into yourbrain.
(11:05):
This is how you got to live.
But as we've discussed and made clear, thelaw produces death and sin.
And so it's truly a freedom from that.
So it's almost like we have to retrain ourbrains to think about the law as a believer,
as something that was, was and did have ause for us when we were unrighteous.
But now we are no longer under that.
(11:26):
We have something better.
Tom Price: Exactly, exactly. (11:27):
undefined
Okay. And as you were, as you were sayingthat it made me think that, you know, we
could be implying that you should havenothing to do with the law anymore.
You know, God's law.
Ross O'Hair: Umhm. (11:38):
undefined
Tom Price: But that's not true either, because we can we can look at the law, and the law is a (11:39):
undefined
reflection of obviously of God's nature.
And in that we can go, oh, that's also areflection of the nature that God has put in
me. Right. So for us that's more the purposeof the law.
Yeah. After I graduated from high school, Iattended a Christian college, and there I met
(12:01):
some believers who seemed to have theirlives in order because I was.
My flesh was kind of bent toward peoplepleasing, and as Christians, they I could see
how consistent they were in their Biblereading and their study, their prayer life,
their church attendance.
And there were even some who kept spiritualgrowth journals.
And I looked at them and I said to myself, Iwant to be just like them.
(12:24):
They are what good Christians are.
And as I attempted to replicate theirChristian behavior, I found myself failing
often. And the more I failed, the moreguilty I felt.
And every time I failed to read my Bible orpray or go to church, I allowed that guilt to
say I am not a good Christian.
(12:45):
Instead of becoming a better Christian, inmy mind I became worse.
Instead, I became more of a hopeless sinner.
Ultimately, I turned somebody else's way ofliving their Christian life into a law for me
to have to follow, right?
Yeah. And I would think if I could justreach that kind of perfection, then I could
(13:08):
be acceptable. I would be acceptable.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Which even just shows the enemies or the power of sin in us twisting again (13:10):
undefined
something that's a good desire, like wetalked about earlier, living righteously,
good desire. And he twists that and says,well, you got to do it on your own here.
It's even like good disciplines, things likereading your Bible or praying or, you know,
going to church like things that areobviously good on their face value.
But he takes them and twists them andcreates a law out of it that then condemns
(13:34):
you when you don't do it.
Tom Price: Exactly. You know, when we attempt to better ourselves by utilizing law as a tool for (13:35):
undefined
growth, we'll experience experience exactlywhat Paul says in verse eight more sinning.
Ross O'Hair: So I'm sure that as you saw that and didn't read your Bible as consistently as them or go (13:47):
undefined
to church that you probably read your Bibleless and went to church less because you felt
condemned about not measuring up anyways.
Tom Price: Yeah. You know, because we use self-effort to follow the law. (14:00):
undefined
That's the problem because we're not relyingon the spirit.
We're relying on the self-effort to live upto the standards that we believe that are set
for ourselves. And so the law focuses reallyour attention on sin and removing or working
on sin. It's a sin consciousness instead ofrighteousness consciousness, consciousness
(14:23):
that God has really wired us for.
Yeah, yeah. Grace always focuses myattention on my righteousness.
Righteous desires and reminds me that God ispleased with me because of his finished work
in my life. Law seems to say I'm unfinishedand incomplete because I still commit sins,
right? Right.
(14:44):
But God is teaching me to lean into hisgrace and to give up trying to live according
to holy standards.
And don't misunderstand me, there's nothingwrong with the holy standards.
Right. Yeah. It's the broken system of lawthat doesn't work.
And I know.
Ross O'Hair: You've mentioned to me that once you kind of understood this and broke free from that law (14:59):
undefined
of how much you read your Bible and how muchyou pray and how much you go to church, that
once you relinquish that, you actually beginto do those things more and more
consistently, normally.
Tom Price: And naturally. (15:12):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. Which is, again, what we're trying to say is that that's going to happen. (15:13):
undefined
Those righteous desires will come tofruition when we trust and rely on God's
power.
Tom Price: Yeah. And it's so freeing to realize, wow, I'm doing the very thing I want to do. (15:22):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. (15:27):
undefined
So we've gone over the verses 7 to 13 herein Romans seven.
What would be your major takeaway here?
Tom Price: Well, I would say that God's laws aren't bad, okay? (15:34):
undefined
They really are holy.
But attempting to live by holy standardsonly produces more sinning.
And that's because we're depending onself-effort.
God's life comes through a person who worksin us.
And that of course, that person is JesusChrist.
(15:54):
But it's not through a holy standard that isoutside of us that we have to read.
We have to, you know, memorize and learn andthen practice it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. And what a beautiful gift. (16:02):
undefined
I mean, we obviously understand howbeautiful a gift is the Holy Spirit in us,
but to really see it, how it can apply to usday to day in this battle between law and
grace that we have as believers.
What a beautiful and powerful gift we have.
That's awesome. Well, Tom, thanks so muchfor your time again.
Thanks for explaining 7 to 13 here theseverses in Romans seven.
(16:23):
And guys, we hope you've enjoyed listeningto the Living of Jesus podcast today.
Thank you so much for being a part of it,and we will see you next week.
undefined
Have you ever thought about how God's lawsare perfect and righteous, yet trying to
follow them often feels impossible?
It's like aiming for an unreachablestandard, an impossible target.
I've certainly thought a lot about thisparadox, and it's one of those things that
can leave you feeling uncertain andinadequate.
(00:26):
What about you? And here's another questionhow do you reconcile the perfection of God's
laws with the reality of our human effort tofollow them and falling short?
You see, we often find ourselves stumblingand failing to live up to those standards.
And because of that, something has to bedone to make it possible for humanity to be
made righteous.
In other words, what is God's ultimateresponse to our inability to measure up to
(00:51):
this perfect standard?
I'm Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your hosttoday.
And joining me on today's episode is TomPrice, and we're discussing Romans 7:7-13.
But before we delve into today's topic,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: From. Romans chapter seven, verses seven through 13. (01:11):
undefined
What then shall we say that the law is sin?
By no means yet.
If it had not been for the law, I would nothave known sin.
For I would not have known what it is tocovet, if the law had not said, you shall not
(01:31):
covet. But sin, seizing an opportunitythrough the commandment, produced in me all
kinds of covetousness.
For apart from the law sin lies dead.
I was once alive apart from the law.
But when the commandment came, sin camealive, and I died.
The very commandment that promised lifeproved to be death to me.
(01:54):
For sin, seizing an opportunity through thecommandment, deceived me, and through it
killed me.
So the law is holy and the commandment isholy and righteous and good.
Did that which is good then bring death tome?
By no means it was sin producing death in methrough what is good, in order that sin might
(02:14):
be shown to be sin, and through thecommandment might become sinful beyond
measure.
Ross O'Hair: All right. Hey, Tom, how are you? (02:31):
undefined
Tom Price: Hey, Ross. Good to be back. (02:33):
undefined
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we are on part two of Romans seven, and we're covering verses 7 to 13. (02:34):
undefined
And as I listen to those verses, you know, acouple of things stand out.
You know, we've talked about in last episodehow the law can't produce righteousness.
In fact, what we kind of have figured out isthat it produces more sin, right?
It shows itself.
It shows sin what it is.
(02:55):
But Paul here also says that the law is holyand perfect.
So how do we reconcile all those differentpoints?
Tom Price: Well, remember last episode that Paul told his readers that they've been released from (03:03):
undefined
the law through their crucifixion withChrist, and because they needed to be
released from the law's demanding strictrequirements, he's actually anticipating that
his readers are thinking, uh, Paul, are yousaying that the law is bad?
Yeah. So in verses seven and 13, he remindsus that the law is not bad.
(03:29):
It never has been.
The law is not the problem.
Sin is the problem, right?
So in this middle section, Paul concentratesbasically on two things.
First of all, he explains, the purpose ofthe law is to reveal sin as sinful.
And Paul even used his own struggle withcoveting as an example.
It seems the more he tried to follow the lawand not covet, the more he struggled with
(03:52):
coveting. And his conclusion is that the lawshowed him that he was dead.
But the second thing he concentrates on hereis that sin takes advantage of the law to
produce more sin.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. Well, as you're saying that, it kind of creates this confusion in my mind a (04:03):
undefined
little bit because obviously he doesn't wantto covet, but then it's producing more like,
so how can something that's good and holy,like the law, lead to a bad outcome?
Tom Price: Well, it's not really the law that encourages sinning, and that's what it might sound like, (04:18):
undefined
but that's not the issue. What the lawencourages is self-effort, and it encourages
doing the right action and avoiding thewrong action.
Ross O'Hair: Well, so you say that and my initial reaction is yeah, okay. (04:32):
undefined
Yeah. But then I'm like, but how?
Like, how does the law actually encouragethat?
Self-effort.
Tom Price: Well, look at it this way. (04:39):
undefined
There are two sources of strength we ashumans can draw from.
We can either rely on God's supernaturalstrength that is gifted to us through the
Holy Spirit, or we can rely on self-strength.
And that's a dependence on our knowledge,our intellect, our self-determination, our
will power, our ingenuity, our influence.
(05:01):
Et cetera. Et cetera. Right?
And so we're all born broken because of thefall.
I mean, that's how we come into this world.
And until we're transformed into newcreations with new hearts and godly desires,
we're stuck with this self-strength as ourresource to get our needs met.
So God's law shows what the Holy standard isand then commands us to do it.
(05:26):
If we don't have God's supernatural strengthin us, then all we have as a resource to
fulfill the holy standard is self-effort orself-strength.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. To me, that's like that's such a great thing. (05:35):
undefined
Like, we can't say that sentence enoughright there.
I don't know that we can reiterate that moretimes.
You can't measure up unless you got thatlife in you.
Tom Price: Exactly. And so remember, the Bible is very clear that reliance on self-strength is sin. (05:45):
undefined
And sin started with a lie in the Garden ofEden by Satan himself.
Yeah. And he implied to Eve that real lifecomes, from us deciding what is right and
wrong and then making our choices based onwhat we know.
(06:07):
So sin says you can accomplish getting yourneeds met through your self-effort.
And law encourages self-effort.
Sure. And that's how following the lawsleads to more sin, because the whole way of
living is purely through flesh.
It's not by the spirit at all.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I mean, I love how you say that because, you know, we're trying to accomplish (06:23):
undefined
something like we as believers, we again,we've talked about this last time.
We want to live righteously.
So there's this great desire within us.
But then the law and sin's use of that lawjust creates this.
Yeah. Self-effort striving.
Okay. I want to do this.
So I'm going to put my best effort forward.
And that really is the thing that makes usfail, like all of that together, as opposed
(06:49):
to this reliance on God's life in us.
Tom Price: And the desire is good. (06:52):
undefined
Yeah. There's nothing wrong with the desire.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Now, you said earlier that the law reveals sin as sinful. (06:54):
undefined
Like it shows it to be that.
How does it do that?
Tom Price: Well, think of the law as a measuring tape. (07:02):
undefined
Now, I'm a carpenter, and I can just glanceat a measuring tape and know what the
measurement is without even, you know,counting the hash marks.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I've seen you do it. It's nice. (07:14):
undefined
Yeah.
Tom Price: And so I use a measuring tape to determine the length or width of a cut. (07:16):
undefined
If the perfect cut for a piece of wood needsto be 12in, then the measuring tape shows me
exactly what 12in is.
Anything short of that or longer than thatmisses the mark of the perfect cut.
Mhm. And so the law like that is thestandard that shows what perfect is.
(07:41):
And so anything that falls short of perfectis sin.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: And obviously we're talking about God's design of the whole world. (07:45):
undefined
He designed things to work a certain way.
He designed us to live a certain way,relationships to work a certain way.
And so there is this, you know, perfect hasthis scary.
Again, we're talking about how scary theword is.
There has this scary connotation to it.
But like there is a way that things workperfectly or that work better, or that are
(08:06):
good for us, that are more loving inrelationships or whatever it is.
And yet, you know, it's very easy to fallshort of that and to miss that mark.
And so that's where I think that pressureand that anxiety can come from.
But what we're striving for is to fulfillGod's, you know, design in how the world
works. But the law doesn't give you thepower to actually keep those commandments or
(08:32):
fulfill that law.
Tom Price: Absolutely not. I mean, it's impossible. (08:33):
undefined
Think of it like a mirror.
Okay, so back in my earlier years now,listening audience can't see me.
I don't have hardly any hair, but I used to.
And so when I get up in the morning and I'dgo, you know, I'd go look in the mirror, and
the mirror showed me that I had bedhead andit was a mess because I had sort of curly
(08:58):
hair and it was oily, you know.
And it just you get the picture in yourhead, right?
But here's the thing.
The mirror couldn't fix it.
It showed me what the problem was.
It showed me the mess, but it couldn't fixit.
And so the law is exactly like a mirror.
It shows you where you fall short.
But it won't do anything to fix the problem.
(09:21):
And the law was like a mirror for Paul.
And the law showed Paul that he was sinfuland dead.
And that's what he says in this passage.
But it couldn't take away his sin and givehim life.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we've covered, you know, like, I love the Carpenter analogy of 12in on the measuring (09:32):
undefined
tape. It shows you exactly what the correctmeasurement is.
And then the mirror also shows you what'swrong, but neither of them have the power to
fix it. The measuring tape can't cut theboard for you.
The mirror can't fix your hair.
But you know, those are kind of justapplications or analogies.
(09:52):
Analogies? Yeah. Yeah. So what about foryou?
Like, what about a personal application.
How do we take this and apply it to uspersonally?
Tom Price: Well, I believe in this passage that Paul explains how the law showed the unbelieving, (10:00):
undefined
unredeemed Paul his need for life.
Remember, Paul said in first Timothy onenine that the law is not made for the
righteous, but for the unrighteous.
Yeah, again, I believe Paul is describinghimself as unsaved and therefore unrighteous
(10:20):
in this, in this section.
For me as a believer, though, someone who issaved, I know that the law has no purpose in
my life, because in Christ I am nowrighteous.
Now I've had to learn that over the years.
Second Peter one three says that I have beengifted everything pertaining to life and
godliness. Again, in Romans 5:17, I've beengifted righteousness, so the law isn't made
(10:43):
for me.
Ross O'Hair: Well, and I think what you said. (10:44):
undefined
I mean, I love that and I think when youhear the phrase, as a believer, the law has
no purpose for me.
Some people might be like, whoa, that soundscrazy.
You know, You grow up in, especially inAmerica in the Bible Belt.
It's like the Ten Commandments are plasteredeverywhere and the law is like you.
Even as a believer, it's hammered into yourbrain.
(11:05):
This is how you got to live.
But as we've discussed and made clear, thelaw produces death and sin.
And so it's truly a freedom from that.
So it's almost like we have to retrain ourbrains to think about the law as a believer,
as something that was, was and did have ause for us when we were unrighteous.
But now we are no longer under that.
(11:26):
We have something better.
Tom Price: Exactly, exactly. (11:27):
undefined
Okay. And as you were, as you were sayingthat it made me think that, you know, we
could be implying that you should havenothing to do with the law anymore.
You know, God's law.
Ross O'Hair: Umhm. (11:38):
undefined
Tom Price: But that's not true either, because we can we can look at the law, and the law is a (11:39):
undefined
reflection of obviously of God's nature.
And in that we can go, oh, that's also areflection of the nature that God has put in
me. Right. So for us that's more the purposeof the law.
Yeah. After I graduated from high school, Iattended a Christian college, and there I met
(12:01):
some believers who seemed to have theirlives in order because I was.
My flesh was kind of bent toward peoplepleasing, and as Christians, they I could see
how consistent they were in their Biblereading and their study, their prayer life,
their church attendance.
And there were even some who kept spiritualgrowth journals.
And I looked at them and I said to myself, Iwant to be just like them.
(12:24):
They are what good Christians are.
And as I attempted to replicate theirChristian behavior, I found myself failing
often. And the more I failed, the moreguilty I felt.
And every time I failed to read my Bible orpray or go to church, I allowed that guilt to
say I am not a good Christian.
(12:45):
Instead of becoming a better Christian, inmy mind I became worse.
Instead, I became more of a hopeless sinner.
Ultimately, I turned somebody else's way ofliving their Christian life into a law for me
to have to follow, right?
Yeah. And I would think if I could justreach that kind of perfection, then I could
(13:08):
be acceptable. I would be acceptable.
Ross O'Hair: Right. Which even just shows the enemies or the power of sin in us twisting again (13:10):
undefined
something that's a good desire, like wetalked about earlier, living righteously,
good desire. And he twists that and says,well, you got to do it on your own here.
It's even like good disciplines, things likereading your Bible or praying or, you know,
going to church like things that areobviously good on their face value.
But he takes them and twists them andcreates a law out of it that then condemns
(13:34):
you when you don't do it.
Tom Price: Exactly. You know, when we attempt to better ourselves by utilizing law as a tool for (13:35):
undefined
growth, we'll experience experience exactlywhat Paul says in verse eight more sinning.
Ross O'Hair: So I'm sure that as you saw that and didn't read your Bible as consistently as them or go (13:47):
undefined
to church that you probably read your Bibleless and went to church less because you felt
condemned about not measuring up anyways.
Tom Price: Yeah. You know, because we use self-effort to follow the law. (14:00):
undefined
That's the problem because we're not relyingon the spirit.
We're relying on the self-effort to live upto the standards that we believe that are set
for ourselves. And so the law focuses reallyour attention on sin and removing or working
on sin. It's a sin consciousness instead ofrighteousness consciousness, consciousness
(14:23):
that God has really wired us for.
Yeah, yeah. Grace always focuses myattention on my righteousness.
Righteous desires and reminds me that God ispleased with me because of his finished work
in my life. Law seems to say I'm unfinishedand incomplete because I still commit sins,
right? Right.
(14:44):
But God is teaching me to lean into hisgrace and to give up trying to live according
to holy standards.
And don't misunderstand me, there's nothingwrong with the holy standards.
Right. Yeah. It's the broken system of lawthat doesn't work.
And I know.
Ross O'Hair: You've mentioned to me that once you kind of understood this and broke free from that law (14:59):
undefined
of how much you read your Bible and how muchyou pray and how much you go to church, that
once you relinquish that, you actually beginto do those things more and more
consistently, normally.
Tom Price: And naturally. (15:12):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. Which is, again, what we're trying to say is that that's going to happen. (15:13):
undefined
Those righteous desires will come tofruition when we trust and rely on God's
power.
Tom Price: Yeah. And it's so freeing to realize, wow, I'm doing the very thing I want to do. (15:22):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. (15:27):
undefined
So we've gone over the verses 7 to 13 herein Romans seven.
What would be your major takeaway here?
Tom Price: Well, I would say that God's laws aren't bad, okay? (15:34):
undefined
They really are holy.
But attempting to live by holy standardsonly produces more sinning.
And that's because we're depending onself-effort.
God's life comes through a person who worksin us.
And that of course, that person is JesusChrist.
(15:54):
But it's not through a holy standard that isoutside of us that we have to read.
We have to, you know, memorize and learn andthen practice it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. And what a beautiful gift. (16:02):
undefined
I mean, we obviously understand howbeautiful a gift is the Holy Spirit in us,
but to really see it, how it can apply to usday to day in this battle between law and
grace that we have as believers.
What a beautiful and powerful gift we have.
That's awesome. Well, Tom, thanks so muchfor your time again.
Thanks for explaining 7 to 13 here theseverses in Romans seven.
(16:23):
And guys, we hope you've enjoyed listeningto the Living of Jesus podcast today.
Thank you so much for being a part of it,and we will see you next week.
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