January 16, 2025 • 18 mins
In this episode, Ross O’Hair and Beau Brezina explore the profound concepts of transformation and sacrifice as presented in Romans 12:1-2. What does it mean to be a living sacrifice? How can we embrace transformation through the renewal of our minds? Listen in as Ross and Beau unravel how our everyday acts of kindness, forgiveness, and service are not burdens but joyful responses to God’s incredible love and mercy. This conversation will inspire us to renew our minds, embrace Christ’s work in us, and live out the sacrificial love that impacts our relationships with God and others.
Key Verses:
Romans 12:1-2 (ESV): "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect."
Quotes:
“Offering ourselves as a “living sacrifice” is not a heavy burden—it’s a delight birthed out of the love that God has poured into our hearts.”
“Transformation begins with renewing your mind; it’s about letting the Holy Spirit reshape your beliefs to align with God’s truth.”
“Sacrifice isn’t about losing something; it’s about giving yourself fully to the joy of loving God and others.”
Key Points:
- A living sacrifice reflects the joy of serving God, motivated by His love rather than obligation.
- Transformation requires the renewal of our minds by allowing the Holy Spirit to reshape our thoughts and beliefs.
- True worship involves daily submission to God’s will, enabling His love to shine through our actions.
Outline:
- Introduction (00:00)
- Scripture Reading (01:02)
- Why We’re Skipping Chapters 9–11 (01:29)
- The Heart Behind a “Living Sacrifice” (01:58)
- A Fresh Look at the Word “Sacrifice” (03:14)
- Transformation Starts in the Mind (07:21)
- Real-Life Examples of Practicing Sacrifice (09:05)
- Overcoming Worldly Conditioning (10:29)
- The Sacrifice of Forgiveness and Love (14:53)
- Key Takeaway and Conclusion (17:26)
Theme Music:
Here Forever by Adigold Emotion by Tonydrumer (all rights and licensing from Envato elements)
Hosted by: Ross O'Hair Participating Staff: Beau Brezina Scripture Reading by: Ben Brezina Edited by: Ross O’Hair and Ben Brezina
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ross O'Hair:
Welcome to the Living in Jesus podcast. (00:04):
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When you hear the word transformation, what comes to mind?
Does the idea of transformation excite you with endless possibilities, or does it leave
you feeling overwhelmed, like you're facing an insurmountable task?
And what about the word sacrifice in the spiritual sense?
Is it something you see as an opportunity for change and growth,
(00:25):
or does it conjure up the feelings of a burden and unwanted pain in your life?
In this episode, we'll unpack these powerful questions found in Romans 12 one and two and
explore how they connect to your relationship with Jesus, others,
and yourself. My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your host today and join me on
today's podcast is Bo Brezina.
But before we get to today's episode, let's take a moment and listen to the
(00:46):
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: Romans 12 :1-2 - "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, (00:55):
undefined
by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice,
holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your
mind, that by testing you may discern what the will of God is,
(01:18):
what is good and acceptable and perfect."
Ross O'Hair: All right, Beau, good to have you back. How are you today? (01:29):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Oh, I'm doing great. (01:32):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Good. All right. It's good to have you back in. And so, yeah, we're skipping over (01:33):
undefined
chapters nine and 11, and there's a purpose to that.
Chapters nine and 11 really talks a lot about God's sovereignty and his ongoing plan for
both the Jews and Gentiles.
But, you know, for the purpose of this podcast, we're focusing on our identity and
how that's changed. And chapter 12 focuses on the application of that change.
(01:53):
So we're moving on. And where does Paul start us off here in chapter 12 verse 1?
Beau Brezina: So verse one he says therefore, and he says he's going to urge us to do (01:58):
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something - to be a living sacrifice.
And when we hear the word therefore, we have to remember the whole context of what
he's already addressed through chapter one through eight and even built through chapter
11 as well. But one through eight.
Remember, we were dead.
(02:19):
Yeah, he cleansed us from sin.
He justified us. He crucified the old self.
He gave us a new heart.
He resurrected us to newness of life.
And he gifted us his righteousness.
So now that sets the stage even up through chapter 11,
where he's talking about how merciful God is and how great and wisdom he is,
and everything comes from him, and everything is through God,
(02:41):
and everything is to his glory.
And so now he's saying, go do it.
Be a living sacrifice.
This is what you're made for, right?
You're built for this because the Holy Spirit is giving you this new heart that's filled
with the love of God. And so now chapter 12 is going to be about how to share the love of
God with people all around us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. And I love how you brought up the word urge earlier because he's like, really? He's (03:04):
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excited about this. He's spurring them on.
He's giving them some kind of like, hey, go do this.
It's exciting now.
Beau Brezina: Yes. And he uses the terminology "service of worship" for this is your service of worship. (03:14):
undefined
Now, the Greek word behind that is the word that they would use to describe what the
priests did in the temple, you know, in the Jewish worship.
Yeah. And that just think of how what an honor that must have been to be a priest in
the temple of God. Well, now Paul tells us, because of what we learned
(03:35):
in chapter one through eight, that you know that Christ lives in us.
And in first Corinthians he describes it as we are the temples of the Holy Spirit.
So what a privilege that every day we're walking around with the Holy Spirit in us,
and that we get to do this service of worship.
And it's a sacrifice. Yeah.
Now, when I was growing up in the Christian world that I grew up in,
(03:59):
I heard the word sacrifice, and it was heavy,
like, oh, what have I got to give up that I don't really want to give up,
but I know I ought to to be better or whatever,
Ross O'Hair: More spiritual Christian. (04:07):
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Beau Brezina: More spiritual, or I owe it to God kind of deal. (04:08):
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And that's not what he's talking about at all. He's talking about the delight because
we're this brand new creation with this new heart that we're dead to sin.
Remember, we've talked about this in earlier episodes,
and we're alive to Christ.
And so it's normal and natural.
And that's why he's urging you to be a living sacrifice,
(04:32):
like to go through your day just offering your service to other people and your
kindness and your forgiveness and all the wonderful things you are going to talk about
in future few episodes about, you know, chapter 12.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:43):
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Beau Brezina: And so this idea is one, I believe, of delight, (04:44):
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not of heavy, "i've got to do this to prove my love for God."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Well, I mean, as we've talked through Romans, (04:53):
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one of the things that I've really, you know, I get to sit in on all these
conversations, But one of the things that I've really seen through all the different,
you know, you guys teaching and talking about it is there is this when we understand how
we're transformed and how we're made new, and what God has done to us and for us,
it naturally exudes that joy and that wanting to share and that wanting to offer yourself
(05:16):
as a sacrifice. And so it really does feel like it's the next logical step.
Beau Brezina: Absolutely. You know, probably one of the best illustrations, (05:20):
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as limited as it is, is is my my wedding day.
You know, most people don't think of their wedding day as a day of sacrifice,
but in in.
Ross O'Hair: Wait! Hold on Beau! Careful. (05:31):
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Beau Brezina: Where are you going? Yeah. (05:32):
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I don't want to get in trouble here, but it's actually,
you know, a day of joy. But in my vows to my beautiful bride,
I said to her I would forsake all others.
Now, I wasn't up there dreading like, oh, I could have given up all these other
romantic relationships with all these other women. Why?
Because I was so in love with her that it was like normal and natural and beautiful.
(05:56):
Of course, what sacrifice is that really when I have the one I delight in?
That is, we're covenanting together.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny that he does use the word sacrifice because I guess I don't (06:04):
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know what the connotation was when Paul wrote this,
but for us modern, it's like it does carry that kind of little negative,
heavy connotation. But when you put it that way,
we do sacrifice things for people we love, and it's not a burden in that moment.
Again, even just think of parenting.
You sacrifice for your kids all the time, your time,
(06:25):
your energy for them. But you're never like, oh man,
these kids again. I tell you.
It's like, no, I love these kids. You know, it's part of the joy of being a dad.
So yeah, it totally it really changes that word a lot.
Beau Brezina: And it's absolutely beautiful because when you put this concept that we're talking about (06:37):
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together with the greatest command to love the Lord your God with all your heart,
your mind, your soul, and your strength, when you remember what you
and Mark just talked about in Romans 8, about how great the love of God,
nothing's going to separate us from it, that of course,
we want to love him with all of our heart, and then we want to love our neighbor as we
(06:59):
love ourselves. And really, that's what chapter 12 is going to talk to us
about. Here's practical ways of how you can love your neighbor as you love yourself.
And when you're doing it, you're honoring and glorifying God.
Ross O'Hair: So you brought up the wedding, and I brought up the parenting kind of (07:12):
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illustration of this. But how does this apply to,
like all people when we're going out in the community?
How does that apply in that instance?
Beau Brezina: Well, obviously it's going to get real practical in your next few episodes. We're (07:21):
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going to apply it. But I like to think about it in terms of this.
And really it's in verse 2 that starts telling us how to practically apply it to all
people. And Paul says, it starts with your thinking do not be
conformed to this world's way of thinking, but be transformed through the renewing of
(07:44):
your mind. This is where it starts getting practical. He's saying, this is where it's
going to happen. He says the world has trained you not to love other people,
but basically just love and worship yourself.
Ross O'Hair: Yep. (07:54):
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Beau Brezina: Sacrifice for yourself because nobody else is going to look out for you. (07:55):
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Ross O'Hair: Yeah. If you're going to sacrifice, make sure that you get something out of it. (07:59):
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Beau Brezina: Exactly. It's all about selfishness. (08:02):
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It's all about me getting my needs met the way I think I should get them met.
And the world has trained us really deeply about that.
And so the application is going to start with this idea that we are to be transformed.
Now it's interesting because the word "be transformed" there in the Greek is it's
(08:24):
present, passive, imperative.
What that means is present, meaning this is an ongoing process.
Passive means somebody's doing it to you.
The Holy Spirit is the one who is at work in you,
transforming you. And a command, imperative means you should do it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (08:41):
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Beau Brezina: It means you're submitting to the Spirit's work. (08:41):
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Your job is to submit in this process and listen to the spirit.
How he renews your mind, and as he does, basically,
what happens is you're transformed and it becomes practical.
And then in the rest of the chapter, he's going to tell you what it looks like and
how to think about other people, and how to think about yourself and how to
(09:04):
treat other people.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I think it's, you know, we work in a counseling place and talk to (09:05):
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people about their thoughts and what they're thinking all the time. So we understand how
important those things are. Oftentimes, I think before I got into this line of work,
I didn't put as much weight in what I was thinking.
It was just like, I'm thinking something now I'm going to put weight into how I respond to
that.
Beau Brezina: Yes. (09:25):
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Ross O'Hair: And I think Paul's reminding us, hey, this starts all in our belief system, (09:25):
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right? Belief drives behavior. Belief drives our emotions.
And it's really easy to get focused on our behaviors and our emotions.
But if we truly want to change and we truly want to experience the change that God has
already done in us, it starts with that belief.
Beau Brezina: Absolutely. And maybe Paul is telling, you know, (09:43):
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as you're talking, it occurs to me, maybe Paul is telling them to let the Holy
Spirit show you what you're thinking about.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (09:51):
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Beau Brezina: What you are believing. (09:52):
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Examine it. And yes, we do that often in the counseling room.
You know, people come in with conflict in relationships,
let's say conflict and communication.
And you can try to change the other person through arguing with them.
But it's much more powerful to get underneath what a person is believing.
Let the Holy Spirit show, "Oh yeah, when my spouse says that to me,
(10:14):
I didn't feel respected.
And so I said something sarcastic or I yelled back at them,
something that was unkind."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:21):
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Beau Brezina: And all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit is showing you, (10:21):
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oh, it's about respect.
And your mind has been trained by the world to get you respect from your spouse.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:29):
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Beau Brezina: Come get your respect from me. (10:30):
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Renew your mind. The spirit's actively speaking,
and when and when the person chooses to submit to that and say yes.
Spirit. Yeah. Your respect is enough for me.
Then they're ready to to be transformed.
And their their, the way they talk to their spouse will start transforming.
Maybe instead of being sarcastic, they'll say something patient or loving or
(10:52):
honest or transparent or whatever needs to be said.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:55):
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Beau Brezina: And then God's will is proved. (10:55):
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The will of God is for his glory to shine through that person,
his love. And all of a sudden his love starts coming out.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So I love how these two verses connect, (11:05):
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because we just talked about offering our bodies as a sacrifice - how it's a joyous
thing, but I don't think you can do that if you're believing the wrong thing.
And so that's why verse two is so important. It's like, so be transformed by the renewing
of your mind. Because when your mind is renewed,
then you can offer your bodies as a living sacrifice in joy because you're believing the
truth. And then that transforms or that and that reveals God's will that's good and
(11:29):
perfect, but that transforms you and the people around you.
It's like you can't have one without the other.
They're perfectly connected.
Beau Brezina: Yes, his arguments are seamless, right? (11:35):
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They're building on each other.
Yeah. And, you know, I think he's going to give us real practical ways to do that in
terms of how to show love, how to.
But the transformation part is an ongoing daily journey.
And we talk about it in the Living in Jesus study about this intimacy with God,
and he's going to show each of us the Holy Spirit is going to guide us on how to set our
(11:58):
mind on truth, like whether it's our Bible reading time or it's our prayer time,
or it's our corporate worship, or it's through all these different
spiritual, beautiful ways that he's - some people call them disciplines,
right? And even this podcast, that's part of what this podcast is doing,
is we're examining the truth of his word about who we are,
our identity. And as it renews, our mind renews around it,
(12:21):
then our behaviors transform.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So how have you seen this in your life? (12:23):
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How has this these concepts played out for you?
Beau Brezina: Well, it's every day, right? (12:28):
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It's every day journey. I mean, I even think about this morning,
I get up, one of my sons wants to talk about some financial questions he has.
And so with Christ in me, I can gift him my time.
That's a living sacrifice.
Being transformed in my thinking is, I've learned that I need to hold on to my
(12:48):
time as much as possible. I've got some big deadlines at work. I've got to really focus
on this because I feel when I get my deadlines finished,
I feel strong. But now I can know my strength comes from Christ.
Christ, you want me to give him some time? This is just real practical every day.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yep (13:02):
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Beau Brezina: But also in some hard situations, like recently, (13:03):
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somebody sent me a text and as I was reading the text thread,
it became apparent to me that I didn't feel very respected by this person.
They were not acknowledging some things that we had already talked about in the past,
and I started feeling frustration.
Right? And then the Holy Spirit's transforming work comes about because I got a
(13:26):
tempting thought to respond in a way, you know,
that would have been dismissive to what they were saying.
You know, I'm noticing a theme here. Last time in chapter five,
we talked about a phone call I was tempted to hang up on,
and now I'm talking about text.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, that phone of yours. (13:41):
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Beau Brezina: I know it's it's an opportunity for transformation. (13:42):
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Ross O'Hair: There you go. (13:45):
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Beau Brezina: So in the moment, I sense the Spirit telling me don't respond that way. (13:46):
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So I told my thumbs " don't type anything."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Stop them. (13:53):
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Beau Brezina: Stop the thumbs. And in that moment, I'm submitting the members of my body - (13:55):
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are a living sacrifice to him.
I'm renewing my mind that my respect and understanding doesn't come from this
individual who's texting me.
It comes from Christ. Now, this is happening really rapidly,
but it's a very practical way.
And then as I wait, because I just sensed the spirit didn't want me to send anything right
(14:17):
there. He later gives me another idea to send,
to text. And it was beautiful, and it was kind,
and it wasn't what I would have been trained by the world to do.
So I knew it was the Spirit at work.
But this is the living sacrifice.
And as I did that I'm proving the will of God,
which is for me to love this person and to share the love of God and love myself with
(14:41):
God's love. That my respect really does come from him.
It doesn't come from this other individual.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (14:46):
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Beau Brezina: And as a result, God's glory is is shown. (14:46):
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His will is seen or proved is how Paul says it.
Ross O'Hair: I love that because sometimes we can play down that moment where the Spirit is leading (14:53):
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us to not do something, and then to send something different as just
like a - we don't we wouldn't put the word sacrifice to that,
you know. But in a lot of ways that's a, like you said,
presenting your members to God.
It's a holy worship. It's an act of sacrifice to not just immediately respond and do that.
(15:16):
You're sacrificing your emotional response in that moment to listen to the Spirit and to
respond in love. And so we could we could glaze over that quickly and not see the
importance and the the awesomeness of that moment for you and for the other person and
for God to be glorified in that.
But again, so I think it could happen in huge moments.
This sacrifice, again, sacrifice has this big connotation.
(15:38):
It can also be really, really small moments of every day where we
get to practice that and really feel the transformation and be new.
Beau Brezina: Yeah, I like that because yes, growing up I thought that the sacrifice of (15:45):
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like Paul, like he gave his life.
He literally got killed.
He was stoned. I mean, he he gave up his where he was living
geographically and moved all over the known world.
Those are huge sacrifices.
But I mean, even something as simple.
This morning, my wife and I were talking about a conversation she had,
(16:05):
and we were talking about how forgiveness plays into this and something as simple as
choosing to follow the Spirit's lead to release and forgive someone for something
they said is an act of sacrifice.
Because the world has trained us that no, you got to prove your rightness and you don't
let people off the hook easy.
But Christ says, I have met the need, and even in something as small or as big,
(16:30):
some areas of forgiveness feel very sacrificial and and others may be more minor,
but they're all acts of service.
Worship of service to God.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we talked about a lot of things in these two verses. But if we had a major takeaway (16:42):
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for how we're starting off chapter 12 here, what would it be?
Beau Brezina: Well, the living sacrifice is not a heavy burden. (16:49):
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It's birthed out of this love that that God has poured in our hearts through the Holy
Spirit that we will never be separated from.
And therefore we can follow Paul's urge to be a living sacrifice.
And we do that through renewing our mind, not thinking the way the world thinks about
(17:10):
where to get worth and value and love, but to receive it from Christ.
Be transformed. It's his work.
Remember, he's at work.
It's the passive imperative. We are submitting to his work,
and as a result, his will is proved through us to love others.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. That's so awesome. Beau, I really appreciate it. That's so great. And, (17:26):
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uh, these two verses mean so much.
They have so much in them.
But it really helps that you broke them down so much. And thanks for explaining that to
us.
Beau Brezina: It was a joy to be here. (17:35):
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Ross O'Hair: And guys, thanks so much for listening today. (17:37):
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We really appreciate it.
And if you were blessed by today's episode, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review.
It helps us spread the grace message to others who are listening. So again,
thank you for listening today, and we'll see you next week on the Living in
Jesus podcast.
undefined
When you hear the word transformation, what comes to mind?
Does the idea of transformation excite you with endless possibilities, or does it leave
you feeling overwhelmed, like you're facing an insurmountable task?
And what about the word sacrifice in the spiritual sense?
Is it something you see as an opportunity for change and growth,
(00:25):
or does it conjure up the feelings of a burden and unwanted pain in your life?
In this episode, we'll unpack these powerful questions found in Romans 12 one and two and
explore how they connect to your relationship with Jesus, others,
and yourself. My name is Ross O'Hare, and I'll be your host today and join me on
today's podcast is Bo Brezina.
But before we get to today's episode, let's take a moment and listen to the
(00:46):
Scripture.
Ben Brezina: Romans 12 :1-2 - "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, (00:55):
undefined
by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice,
holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your
mind, that by testing you may discern what the will of God is,
(01:18):
what is good and acceptable and perfect."
Ross O'Hair: All right, Beau, good to have you back. How are you today? (01:29):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Oh, I'm doing great. (01:32):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Good. All right. It's good to have you back in. And so, yeah, we're skipping over (01:33):
undefined
chapters nine and 11, and there's a purpose to that.
Chapters nine and 11 really talks a lot about God's sovereignty and his ongoing plan for
both the Jews and Gentiles.
But, you know, for the purpose of this podcast, we're focusing on our identity and
how that's changed. And chapter 12 focuses on the application of that change.
(01:53):
So we're moving on. And where does Paul start us off here in chapter 12 verse 1?
Beau Brezina: So verse one he says therefore, and he says he's going to urge us to do (01:58):
undefined
something - to be a living sacrifice.
And when we hear the word therefore, we have to remember the whole context of what
he's already addressed through chapter one through eight and even built through chapter
11 as well. But one through eight.
Remember, we were dead.
(02:19):
Yeah, he cleansed us from sin.
He justified us. He crucified the old self.
He gave us a new heart.
He resurrected us to newness of life.
And he gifted us his righteousness.
So now that sets the stage even up through chapter 11,
where he's talking about how merciful God is and how great and wisdom he is,
and everything comes from him, and everything is through God,
(02:41):
and everything is to his glory.
And so now he's saying, go do it.
Be a living sacrifice.
This is what you're made for, right?
You're built for this because the Holy Spirit is giving you this new heart that's filled
with the love of God. And so now chapter 12 is going to be about how to share the love of
God with people all around us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. And I love how you brought up the word urge earlier because he's like, really? He's (03:04):
undefined
excited about this. He's spurring them on.
He's giving them some kind of like, hey, go do this.
It's exciting now.
Beau Brezina: Yes. And he uses the terminology "service of worship" for this is your service of worship. (03:14):
undefined
Now, the Greek word behind that is the word that they would use to describe what the
priests did in the temple, you know, in the Jewish worship.
Yeah. And that just think of how what an honor that must have been to be a priest in
the temple of God. Well, now Paul tells us, because of what we learned
(03:35):
in chapter one through eight, that you know that Christ lives in us.
And in first Corinthians he describes it as we are the temples of the Holy Spirit.
So what a privilege that every day we're walking around with the Holy Spirit in us,
and that we get to do this service of worship.
And it's a sacrifice. Yeah.
Now, when I was growing up in the Christian world that I grew up in,
(03:59):
I heard the word sacrifice, and it was heavy,
like, oh, what have I got to give up that I don't really want to give up,
but I know I ought to to be better or whatever,
Ross O'Hair: More spiritual Christian. (04:07):
undefined
Beau Brezina: More spiritual, or I owe it to God kind of deal. (04:08):
undefined
And that's not what he's talking about at all. He's talking about the delight because
we're this brand new creation with this new heart that we're dead to sin.
Remember, we've talked about this in earlier episodes,
and we're alive to Christ.
And so it's normal and natural.
And that's why he's urging you to be a living sacrifice,
(04:32):
like to go through your day just offering your service to other people and your
kindness and your forgiveness and all the wonderful things you are going to talk about
in future few episodes about, you know, chapter 12.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:43):
undefined
Beau Brezina: And so this idea is one, I believe, of delight, (04:44):
undefined
not of heavy, "i've got to do this to prove my love for God."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Well, I mean, as we've talked through Romans, (04:53):
undefined
one of the things that I've really, you know, I get to sit in on all these
conversations, But one of the things that I've really seen through all the different,
you know, you guys teaching and talking about it is there is this when we understand how
we're transformed and how we're made new, and what God has done to us and for us,
it naturally exudes that joy and that wanting to share and that wanting to offer yourself
(05:16):
as a sacrifice. And so it really does feel like it's the next logical step.
Beau Brezina: Absolutely. You know, probably one of the best illustrations, (05:20):
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as limited as it is, is is my my wedding day.
You know, most people don't think of their wedding day as a day of sacrifice,
but in in.
Ross O'Hair: Wait! Hold on Beau! Careful. (05:31):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Where are you going? Yeah. (05:32):
undefined
I don't want to get in trouble here, but it's actually,
you know, a day of joy. But in my vows to my beautiful bride,
I said to her I would forsake all others.
Now, I wasn't up there dreading like, oh, I could have given up all these other
romantic relationships with all these other women. Why?
Because I was so in love with her that it was like normal and natural and beautiful.
(05:56):
Of course, what sacrifice is that really when I have the one I delight in?
That is, we're covenanting together.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny that he does use the word sacrifice because I guess I don't (06:04):
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know what the connotation was when Paul wrote this,
but for us modern, it's like it does carry that kind of little negative,
heavy connotation. But when you put it that way,
we do sacrifice things for people we love, and it's not a burden in that moment.
Again, even just think of parenting.
You sacrifice for your kids all the time, your time,
(06:25):
your energy for them. But you're never like, oh man,
these kids again. I tell you.
It's like, no, I love these kids. You know, it's part of the joy of being a dad.
So yeah, it totally it really changes that word a lot.
Beau Brezina: And it's absolutely beautiful because when you put this concept that we're talking about (06:37):
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together with the greatest command to love the Lord your God with all your heart,
your mind, your soul, and your strength, when you remember what you
and Mark just talked about in Romans 8, about how great the love of God,
nothing's going to separate us from it, that of course,
we want to love him with all of our heart, and then we want to love our neighbor as we
(06:59):
love ourselves. And really, that's what chapter 12 is going to talk to us
about. Here's practical ways of how you can love your neighbor as you love yourself.
And when you're doing it, you're honoring and glorifying God.
Ross O'Hair: So you brought up the wedding, and I brought up the parenting kind of (07:12):
undefined
illustration of this. But how does this apply to,
like all people when we're going out in the community?
How does that apply in that instance?
Beau Brezina: Well, obviously it's going to get real practical in your next few episodes. We're (07:21):
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going to apply it. But I like to think about it in terms of this.
And really it's in verse 2 that starts telling us how to practically apply it to all
people. And Paul says, it starts with your thinking do not be
conformed to this world's way of thinking, but be transformed through the renewing of
(07:44):
your mind. This is where it starts getting practical. He's saying, this is where it's
going to happen. He says the world has trained you not to love other people,
but basically just love and worship yourself.
Ross O'Hair: Yep. (07:54):
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Beau Brezina: Sacrifice for yourself because nobody else is going to look out for you. (07:55):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. If you're going to sacrifice, make sure that you get something out of it. (07:59):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Exactly. It's all about selfishness. (08:02):
undefined
It's all about me getting my needs met the way I think I should get them met.
And the world has trained us really deeply about that.
And so the application is going to start with this idea that we are to be transformed.
Now it's interesting because the word "be transformed" there in the Greek is it's
(08:24):
present, passive, imperative.
What that means is present, meaning this is an ongoing process.
Passive means somebody's doing it to you.
The Holy Spirit is the one who is at work in you,
transforming you. And a command, imperative means you should do it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (08:41):
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Beau Brezina: It means you're submitting to the Spirit's work. (08:41):
undefined
Your job is to submit in this process and listen to the spirit.
How he renews your mind, and as he does, basically,
what happens is you're transformed and it becomes practical.
And then in the rest of the chapter, he's going to tell you what it looks like and
how to think about other people, and how to think about yourself and how to
(09:04):
treat other people.
Ross O'Hair: Well, I think it's, you know, we work in a counseling place and talk to (09:05):
undefined
people about their thoughts and what they're thinking all the time. So we understand how
important those things are. Oftentimes, I think before I got into this line of work,
I didn't put as much weight in what I was thinking.
It was just like, I'm thinking something now I'm going to put weight into how I respond to
that.
Beau Brezina: Yes. (09:25):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: And I think Paul's reminding us, hey, this starts all in our belief system, (09:25):
undefined
right? Belief drives behavior. Belief drives our emotions.
And it's really easy to get focused on our behaviors and our emotions.
But if we truly want to change and we truly want to experience the change that God has
already done in us, it starts with that belief.
Beau Brezina: Absolutely. And maybe Paul is telling, you know, (09:43):
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as you're talking, it occurs to me, maybe Paul is telling them to let the Holy
Spirit show you what you're thinking about.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, yeah. (09:51):
undefined
Beau Brezina: What you are believing. (09:52):
undefined
Examine it. And yes, we do that often in the counseling room.
You know, people come in with conflict in relationships,
let's say conflict and communication.
And you can try to change the other person through arguing with them.
But it's much more powerful to get underneath what a person is believing.
Let the Holy Spirit show, "Oh yeah, when my spouse says that to me,
(10:14):
I didn't feel respected.
And so I said something sarcastic or I yelled back at them,
something that was unkind."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:21):
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Beau Brezina: And all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit is showing you, (10:21):
undefined
oh, it's about respect.
And your mind has been trained by the world to get you respect from your spouse.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:29):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Come get your respect from me. (10:30):
undefined
Renew your mind. The spirit's actively speaking,
and when and when the person chooses to submit to that and say yes.
Spirit. Yeah. Your respect is enough for me.
Then they're ready to to be transformed.
And their their, the way they talk to their spouse will start transforming.
Maybe instead of being sarcastic, they'll say something patient or loving or
(10:52):
honest or transparent or whatever needs to be said.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (10:55):
undefined
Beau Brezina: And then God's will is proved. (10:55):
undefined
The will of God is for his glory to shine through that person,
his love. And all of a sudden his love starts coming out.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So I love how these two verses connect, (11:05):
undefined
because we just talked about offering our bodies as a sacrifice - how it's a joyous
thing, but I don't think you can do that if you're believing the wrong thing.
And so that's why verse two is so important. It's like, so be transformed by the renewing
of your mind. Because when your mind is renewed,
then you can offer your bodies as a living sacrifice in joy because you're believing the
truth. And then that transforms or that and that reveals God's will that's good and
(11:29):
perfect, but that transforms you and the people around you.
It's like you can't have one without the other.
They're perfectly connected.
Beau Brezina: Yes, his arguments are seamless, right? (11:35):
undefined
They're building on each other.
Yeah. And, you know, I think he's going to give us real practical ways to do that in
terms of how to show love, how to.
But the transformation part is an ongoing daily journey.
And we talk about it in the Living in Jesus study about this intimacy with God,
and he's going to show each of us the Holy Spirit is going to guide us on how to set our
(11:58):
mind on truth, like whether it's our Bible reading time or it's our prayer time,
or it's our corporate worship, or it's through all these different
spiritual, beautiful ways that he's - some people call them disciplines,
right? And even this podcast, that's part of what this podcast is doing,
is we're examining the truth of his word about who we are,
our identity. And as it renews, our mind renews around it,
(12:21):
then our behaviors transform.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. So how have you seen this in your life? (12:23):
undefined
How has this these concepts played out for you?
Beau Brezina: Well, it's every day, right? (12:28):
undefined
It's every day journey. I mean, I even think about this morning,
I get up, one of my sons wants to talk about some financial questions he has.
And so with Christ in me, I can gift him my time.
That's a living sacrifice.
Being transformed in my thinking is, I've learned that I need to hold on to my
(12:48):
time as much as possible. I've got some big deadlines at work. I've got to really focus
on this because I feel when I get my deadlines finished,
I feel strong. But now I can know my strength comes from Christ.
Christ, you want me to give him some time? This is just real practical every day.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yep (13:02):
undefined
Beau Brezina: But also in some hard situations, like recently, (13:03):
undefined
somebody sent me a text and as I was reading the text thread,
it became apparent to me that I didn't feel very respected by this person.
They were not acknowledging some things that we had already talked about in the past,
and I started feeling frustration.
Right? And then the Holy Spirit's transforming work comes about because I got a
(13:26):
tempting thought to respond in a way, you know,
that would have been dismissive to what they were saying.
You know, I'm noticing a theme here. Last time in chapter five,
we talked about a phone call I was tempted to hang up on,
and now I'm talking about text.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, that phone of yours. (13:41):
undefined
Beau Brezina: I know it's it's an opportunity for transformation. (13:42):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: There you go. (13:45):
undefined
Beau Brezina: So in the moment, I sense the Spirit telling me don't respond that way. (13:46):
undefined
So I told my thumbs " don't type anything."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Stop them. (13:53):
undefined
Beau Brezina: Stop the thumbs. And in that moment, I'm submitting the members of my body - (13:55):
undefined
are a living sacrifice to him.
I'm renewing my mind that my respect and understanding doesn't come from this
individual who's texting me.
It comes from Christ. Now, this is happening really rapidly,
but it's a very practical way.
And then as I wait, because I just sensed the spirit didn't want me to send anything right
(14:17):
there. He later gives me another idea to send,
to text. And it was beautiful, and it was kind,
and it wasn't what I would have been trained by the world to do.
So I knew it was the Spirit at work.
But this is the living sacrifice.
And as I did that I'm proving the will of God,
which is for me to love this person and to share the love of God and love myself with
(14:41):
God's love. That my respect really does come from him.
It doesn't come from this other individual.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (14:46):
undefined
Beau Brezina: And as a result, God's glory is is shown. (14:46):
undefined
His will is seen or proved is how Paul says it.
Ross O'Hair: I love that because sometimes we can play down that moment where the Spirit is leading (14:53):
undefined
us to not do something, and then to send something different as just
like a - we don't we wouldn't put the word sacrifice to that,
you know. But in a lot of ways that's a, like you said,
presenting your members to God.
It's a holy worship. It's an act of sacrifice to not just immediately respond and do that.
(15:16):
You're sacrificing your emotional response in that moment to listen to the Spirit and to
respond in love. And so we could we could glaze over that quickly and not see the
importance and the the awesomeness of that moment for you and for the other person and
for God to be glorified in that.
But again, so I think it could happen in huge moments.
This sacrifice, again, sacrifice has this big connotation.
(15:38):
It can also be really, really small moments of every day where we
get to practice that and really feel the transformation and be new.
Beau Brezina: Yeah, I like that because yes, growing up I thought that the sacrifice of (15:45):
undefined
like Paul, like he gave his life.
He literally got killed.
He was stoned. I mean, he he gave up his where he was living
geographically and moved all over the known world.
Those are huge sacrifices.
But I mean, even something as simple.
This morning, my wife and I were talking about a conversation she had,
(16:05):
and we were talking about how forgiveness plays into this and something as simple as
choosing to follow the Spirit's lead to release and forgive someone for something
they said is an act of sacrifice.
Because the world has trained us that no, you got to prove your rightness and you don't
let people off the hook easy.
But Christ says, I have met the need, and even in something as small or as big,
(16:30):
some areas of forgiveness feel very sacrificial and and others may be more minor,
but they're all acts of service.
Worship of service to God.
Yeah.
Ross O'Hair: So we talked about a lot of things in these two verses. But if we had a major takeaway (16:42):
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for how we're starting off chapter 12 here, what would it be?
Beau Brezina: Well, the living sacrifice is not a heavy burden. (16:49):
undefined
It's birthed out of this love that that God has poured in our hearts through the Holy
Spirit that we will never be separated from.
And therefore we can follow Paul's urge to be a living sacrifice.
And we do that through renewing our mind, not thinking the way the world thinks about
(17:10):
where to get worth and value and love, but to receive it from Christ.
Be transformed. It's his work.
Remember, he's at work.
It's the passive imperative. We are submitting to his work,
and as a result, his will is proved through us to love others.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. That's so awesome. Beau, I really appreciate it. That's so great. And, (17:26):
undefined
uh, these two verses mean so much.
They have so much in them.
But it really helps that you broke them down so much. And thanks for explaining that to
us.
Beau Brezina: It was a joy to be here. (17:35):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: And guys, thanks so much for listening today. (17:37):
undefined
We really appreciate it.
And if you were blessed by today's episode, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review.
It helps us spread the grace message to others who are listening. So again,
thank you for listening today, and we'll see you next week on the Living in
Jesus podcast.
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