December 19, 2024 • 20 mins
In this episode, join host Ross O'Hair and guest Mark Fields as they delve into Romans 8:15-17, revealing how embracing your true identity shifts your motivation from fear to love. Through engaging stories and biblical insights, you'll discover how to overcome fear, understand your spiritual inheritance, and start walking confidently as a Child of God. This episode offers practical wisdom and encouragement to help you live out your faith with renewed intimacy and purpose. Whether you're seeking to deepen your relationship with God or find peace amidst life's challenges, this conversation will inspire and equip you to fully embrace your place in His family.
Key Verses:
Romans 8:15-17: “For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”
Quotes:
“Fear might be an immediate motivator, but it is not genuine or from the heart. We respond to God out of love as we trust His heart.”
“When we say, ‘Abba, Father,’ we’re calling out to a God who smiles and says, ‘You’re my child, and I love you.’”
“Our identity as children of God isn’t just about heaven; it’s about living in His presence now, with love, joy, and peace.”
Key Points:
- We no longer live in fear because God has given us the Spirit of adoption, not slavery.
- As God’s adopted children, we have access to His love, wisdom, and inheritance.
- The Holy Spirit continually assures us of our identity as God’s beloved sons and daughters.
Outline:
- Introduction (00:00)
- Scripture Reading (01:07)
- Spirit of Slavery vs. Spirit of Adoption (02:14)
- From Slave to Son: Living Inside the House (05:25)
- “Abba!” The Cry of True Belonging (07:43)
- Downton Abbey, Ben-Hur, and Talking Horses (08:42)
- Whispers of Truth: The Spirit’s Constant Testimony (10:55)
- More Than Heaven: Your Inheritance Starts Now (13:15)
- Clarifying suffering with Christ (16:05)
- Final Takeaway: Loved, Accepted, and Secure (18:30)
Theme Music:
Here Forever by Adigold (all rights and licensing from Envato elements)
Hosted by: Ross O'Hair Scripture Read by: Corrie O’Hair Participating Staff: Mark Fields Edited by: Ross O’Hair and Ben Brezina
---
Have a question or comment about this podcast? We want to hear from you. Email us at podcast@cftministry.org
Interested in more? Get the Living IN Jesus study.
In need of individual counseling? Visit our website to schedule an online or in-person appointment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ross O'Hair:
Welcome to the Living in Jesus podcast. (00:03):
undefined
Have you ever wondered if fear or lovemotivate you to obey God?
Maybe you have doubts about the reasonsbehind your faithfulness.
Questioning whether your actions are drivenby genuine love or an underlying fear of
punishment. Or maybe you have moments whenyou feel like a servant of a distant god, or
a pawn in a cosmic battle.
(00:23):
More than you feel like a son or a daughter.
Perhaps you struggle with experiencing aclose personal connection to God, and instead
maybe feeling as if you just are fulfillingduties without intimacy.
These questions, addressed in Romans 8:15-17, touch the core of our identity and the
relationship with God, but they also openthe door to deeper understanding and
connection. My name is Ross O'Hair, and I'llbe your host.
(00:47):
And joining me on today's episode is MarkFields.
But before we get into today's discussion,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Corrie O'Hair: "For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have (01:07):
undefined
received a spirit of adoption as sons bywhich we cry out, ABBA, father!
The Spirit himself testifies with our spiritthat we are children of God, and if children
heirs also heirs of God and fellow heirswith Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, so
(01:27):
that we may also be glorified with him."
Ross O'Hair: Well, hey, Mark, good to have you back. (01:39):
undefined
We're in part three. How are you doing?
Mark Fields: Hey, Ross. Doing good. (01:41):
undefined
Thanks.
Ross O'Hair: All right, so we just finished verses 5 to 14 last week, and it talked a lot about the (01:42):
undefined
spirit, focused a lot on his role and howwe're in the spirit.
This time, it transitions a little bit tothe focus on us.
So tell us where Paul's taking us here.
Mark Fields: Okay. Yeah. (01:59):
undefined
And we just chose three verses to cover inthis episode because they're so rich and deep
regarding the very central aspect of ourenjoyment of God.
Yeah, these few verses are signature versesabout our favorite topic around here, our
identity in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: That's right. Yeah, we do love that one. (02:12):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. Now a good segway though. (02:14):
undefined
The last part of verse 14 from the lastepisode leads us right into this section.
Verse 14 says, for all who are being led bythe Spirit of God, these are the sons of God
or daughters. So let's talk about theencouragement we have in knowing that we are
children of God.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (02:29):
undefined
Mark Fields: Now, the first point I want to make is that believers have not received a spirit of (02:30):
undefined
slavery that leads to fear.
That does not come from God.
Any inclination that we are still slavescomes from Satan.
Satan wants us to believe that we are in arelationship of bondage, motivated by fear,
to live in this world.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (02:47):
undefined
Mark Fields: Now, this is similar to second Timothy one seven, where it says that God does not give (02:48):
undefined
us the spirit of fear and timidity, but ofpower, of love, and of a sound mind.
God wants us to enjoy, worship and obey himout of love, not fear.
Fear might be an immediate motivator, but itis not genuine or from the heart.
We don't respond to God because we have toor fear of consequence.
(03:09):
We respond to God out of love as we trusthis heart and base our love and loyalty on
the relationship.
Moving from slave to son or daughter changesour motivation from fear to love.
First John 4:18-19 says, "there is no fearin love.
But perfect love casts out fear because fearinvolves punishment.
And the one who fears is not perfected inlove.
(03:30):
We love because he first loved us."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. You know, as you're saying, all these verses or bringing up this point, the word (03:32):
undefined
fear we can all really relate to - we canreally connect to.
And when we think about that, like we've allbeen fearful of something, you know,
sometimes fear really can motivate us.
But that motivation is kind of what Paul istalking about here is like, do we want to be
motivated by fear or what's motivating us inthis?
You know.
Mark Fields: So yeah, I think that's a powerful indicator here is fear the emotion. (03:51):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yes, exactly. Yep. (03:54):
undefined
Mark Fields: So now we can enjoy his love. (03:55):
undefined
And in turn, we love ourselves and others.
So next time you feel fear, tell yourself: this is not coming from God. (03:59):
undefined
Satan is trying to send you lies that inducefear in you.
I get to tell myself this all the time,especially regarding future events.
See, I'm an overthinker, Ross, going throughendless what ifs.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:15):
undefined
Mark Fields: And this summer I was overwhelmed by the many things I had to do. (04:16):
undefined
I think you remember our conversations onthat.
I realized my racing thoughts had an elementof panic in them, which is fear.
The moment I recognized that this is notcoming from God, but Satan.
I began to relax and tune into God's voiceand direction.
And with a calmer attitude, I began toaddress only what needs to be done next and
(04:38):
not worry over all the things that need tobe done right.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. I remember our conversations for sure. (04:40):
undefined
You had a lot going on this summer.
Do you feel like the way you handled thatfear changed when you had those thoughts?
Like, how did that play out for you thissummer when you were feeling that way?
Mark Fields: Well, the first part of that was, and I've told you about this, about when I'm just (04:52):
undefined
waking up or something. Yeah.
Transition moments.
Ross O'Hair: Yep. (04:57):
undefined
Mark Fields: You recognize it. (04:57):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (04:58):
undefined
Mark Fields: What am I feeling? (04:59):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (05:00):
undefined
Mark Fields: What's going on here? That's God's gift to us if an indicator of the turmoil we're (05:00):
undefined
experiencing. So when I identified this ispanic.
This is being overwhelmed and fearful.
So this is not from God. There you go.
This is from Satan. Once you identify thesource, now you're moving from lies into
truth.
Ross O'Hair: And how does that connect, though, to our identity? (05:14):
undefined
You know, you said we're bringing we'retalking about our identity.
So if we don't have the spirit of fear,connect that to my identity for me.
Mark Fields: Okay. Well, that's what we're going to move into next, because that comes from that (05:25):
undefined
position of being a slave in a household,which again, is not really current context
for us. But when you move into a child, thenyou have the.
Ross O'Hair: Got it a little bit ahead of the game. (05:36):
undefined
Gotcha. Okay.
Mark Fields: That's okay. Yeah. (05:38):
undefined
So now it says that we have been adoptedinto God's family.
Our position has changed from a slave to amember of the family who now enjoys being
loved by the father and moving again.
This isn't very current for us, but movingfrom slave to son or daughter moves us into
the house. Back in the Roman times orwhatever.
All the help or the slaves moved, you know,lived in their own quarters outside, right?
(05:59):
Now I get to live with the father and notoutside.
And now we have access to his love,instruction and wisdom.
In John 15:15, Jesus tells the disciples, nolonger do I call you slaves, for the slave
does not know what his master is doing.
But I have called you friends for all thingsthat I have heard from my father.
I have made known to you.
(06:20):
But this verse is here in Romans.
Is even an upgrade over friends?
Not only are we friends now, we're children.
We have privy to his closest, most intimateconversations.
We're now sons and daughters.
We're privileged to every familycommunication because we live with our
father.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. What a great picture. (06:34):
undefined
Like you said, in Roman times, the slaveswould live outside the house, and then you'd
have the family and the privilege and thehonor and all the - everything that came with
being in the family was given to that personwhen they came in the house.
I mean, that's just such a cool picture.
So that connects it for me - The dots - likemy question is how does that change our
identity? Well, we don't have to fear Godanymore.
(06:57):
When we're not in the house and we're not inGod's family, fear is one of the only things
that motivates people that aren't in thefamily.
Like you don't have many other optionsbesides that.
In God's family, a whole new set of optionsthat we have to be able to be motivated by.
Mark Fields: And you just brought another image to my mind. (07:12):
undefined
But from slaves to even servants, I rememberwatching a popular show years ago, Downton
Abbey, and my wife had me watch all of it,and we just loved it.
But the servants were always invisible,always attending and staying in the
background. But the family never addressedthem and never included them in the intimate
conversations they were having.
Ross O'Hair: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. (07:31):
undefined
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it was probablyyou that drove that bus, not Linda.
You wanted to watch the show?
Mark Fields: That's right, I did. I cried, I cried so much. (07:37):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: All right, keep going. (07:40):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. Let's talk about the term ABBA. (07:41):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Okay. (07:43):
undefined
Mark Fields: Abba is the Aramaic word for father. (07:43):
undefined
It implies endearment, intimacy, trust, andapproachability.
It's interesting, though.
Jesus is recorded saying this only once inthe Gospels.
Mark 14. Really?
Yeah. When he was in the Garden ofGethsemane.
I guess that's the only gospel that says itthis way.
And he cries out, ABBA!
The night before his crucifixion.
It's a very intimate, tender time betweenJesus and his father.
(08:06):
It's like saying dad or even daddy.
When my adult daughter Jody calls me on thephone, the first thing she says is daddy.
It tells me she knows I love her and sheloves me.
And it makes me smile.
Such a big smile. And I can imagine God whenwe say, daddy, he's got this big smile on his
face.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, obviously that just screams intimacy. (08:23):
undefined
Closeness. Not every earthly father is greatand intimately, you know, someone you want to
be close to. But when you do have a fatherfigure or a father in your life that does
show love and compassion to you or care toyou.
Yeah, you have that connection.
You have that that crying of daddy you want.
Mark Fields: Going back to that episode of Downton Abbey. (08:42):
undefined
There was a driver that they hired in.
He was an Irish driver, and he was only aservant - dismissed and everything else.
But he fell in love with one of thedaughters.
So he married into the family.
And so he moves in later episodes becausehis wife actually dies.
But later on, now he's a very intimate partof the family.
In fact, he's one of the leading decisionmakers.
(09:04):
So you watch over the seasons as he goesfrom a driver invisible, dismissed into a
trusted, intimate family member.
And so that's an interesting example of thetransition of servant or slave to family.
Yeah. Another one is the movie Ben-Hur.
Now, it came out in the 60s, but I thinkthey just had a remake of it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, (09:21):
undefined
Mark Fields: But Ben-Hur is the story of a slave becoming a son. (09:21):
undefined
The main character, Judah Ben-Hur, wasfalsely accused of attempted assassination of
a Roman officer. He was made a slave androwed a Roman galley.
In a battle, he saved the life of thecommander of the ship.
The officer adopted him and made him a Romancitizen.
Judah Ben-Hur instantly goes from slavery tofreedom, from oppression to full citizenship
(09:45):
with every right as a son of Rome, and hewas brought from bondage, confinement, and
fear to a life of freedom, inheritance.
And you can see it in the movie.
The next scene, his demeanor immediatelychanges.
He's walking upright, regally.
He began to act like he owned something.
He moved with confidence.
So the assurance of sonship.
Let's talk about that. The spirit testifieswith our spirit that we are indeed children
(10:08):
of God, emphasizing the intimaterelationship we have with God.
Now, we've already talked about in the lastepisode.
There's so many activities of the Spirit inour lives in Romans eight does a great job of
listing all of those activities.
But my favorite is this one - God's spirittestifies, bears witness, confirms, assures
us that we are his children.
And this is not just a one time activitywhen you first become a Christian.
(10:32):
He is continually, without hesitation,without interruption, assuring us, telling us
that we're his children and that God is ourdad.
I mean, this is a conversation happening allthe time, right now as we're having this
podcast and as you out there listening tothis podcast, his spirit is whispering to
your spirit. He's your father.
You're his son. You're his daughter.
(10:52):
That's going on all the time, continually.
Ross O'Hair: Why do you think Paul is addressing these things at this point in Romans 8? (10:55):
undefined
You know, we just finished talking about theSpirit.
And if you're in the Spirit, then you walkby the Spirit.
Like, why is he then piggybacking that herewith these verses and trying to really drive
home who we are and our status?
Mark Fields: Well, the first part of Romans 8, we had talked about how God never leaves us, never (11:13):
undefined
condemns us, and how all of these, I don'twant to call them mechanical works, let's
call them transformational works of the HolySpirit, of how he convinces us, leads us and
guides us and all that. Now he wants to turnthe attention to this is why he can do this.
Because of who he's made you to be, and howhe's lovingly brought you into his family.
You're his child.
(11:34):
He's your father. And so now it's not just atactical kind of process of, oh, he's showing
me these instructions and now I can dobetter as a Christian.
Now he's bringing in the intimaterelationship that we have with him, our
identity in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. I mean, because even in these three verses, I mean, he's going over time to show (11:45):
undefined
us how connected we are to God now, how newwe are in God's family.
Like he's just he's laying it on thick inthese three verses.
And obviously the reason is he wants us tomake sure that we know this because it's a
foundational thing.
(12:06):
If we know that, then we know that he's atwork in us and that we have a loving father
as opposed to something, someone, some beingout there that we need to fear.
You know, this punishment, this wrath.
So it feels like it's a very pivotal changepoint within this chapter.
He's explaining stuff, but this is kind ofthat central part where it's like, you have
to know who you are in order for this tomake sense.
Mark Fields: And who he is, because Romans 8:1 talked about condemnation, which puts him kind of in (12:28):
undefined
a judge and a victim relationship now as afather and a child.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, (12:35):
undefined
Mark Fields: Much more personal. (12:36):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Well, it feels like it's like these are two things, like, you have to know these things (12:37):
undefined
and you have to be convinced of them inorder for life to make sense - the Christian
life to make sense in some ways.
Mark Fields: Well, yeah, for me, it's my only secure grounding or center point or foundation to (12:47):
undefined
navigate through all of the messages andinfluences we're going after.
Ross O'Hair: Right. So he he's gone over three points so far. (12:56):
undefined
How we don't have a spirit of fear.
We've been transitioned into God's family, and we have an assurance of our sonship or
daughtership in his family.
Where does he take us next?
Mark Fields: Well, then he moves into the whole aspect of inheritance because children get to inherit (13:09):
undefined
something from their parents.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (13:15):
undefined
Mark Fields: But the interesting thing here is we already have his inheritance. (13:16):
undefined
I mean, Ephesians 1:3 says, "blessed be theGod and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who
has blessed us with every spiritual blessingwe have received the inheritance."
Interesting side note on that for you to getan inheritance, somebody has to die.
Ross O'Hair: Right, Yeah. (13:34):
undefined
Mark Fields: Jesus died. We don't have to wait till we get to heaven to receive all these blessings and (13:35):
undefined
inheritance. He's already given them to usbecause his death delivered them to us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, that makes sense. (13:42):
undefined
Mark Fields: So now, in the day of my salvation, 50 something years ago, I received immediately (13:43):
undefined
all the blessings, all the inheritance thatGod has for me.
And that inheritance not only includes, Iguess, eternal life, streets of gold, a
better body someday, but love, joy, peace,patience, courage, outlook, rest that he
gives me.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, the inheritance like I love how you brought that up. (14:01):
undefined
It's not just heaven, but it's here and now.
The presence of God is that peace that weget, the joy that we get.
It's the Spirit living in us.
That's the inheritance we have.
And, man, that's the greatest gift we couldever receive.
Mark Fields: It is. It is. Now an illustration of that is a story I'm going to bring out from The (14:15):
undefined
Chronicles of Narnia, but a story aboutunderstanding your inheritance once you know
your position and your identity.
One of the books in the series, TheChronicles of Narnia, is called A Boy and His
Horse. Did you ever read that one?
Ross O'Hair: I did, yeah. (14:30):
undefined
Mark Fields: Oh, it's a great story. (14:30):
undefined
Um, anyway, there was a boy named Shasta whowas being raised by a cruel fisherman.
It turns out this fisherman found the boy asa baby in a drifting boat.
So he's not even his dad.
So a visiting nobleman buys Shasta as aslave.
Oh, and then the boy has a horse.
This is the boy. And his horse is thetalking horse.
Of course, with Narnia kids, not Mister Ed,but that's another story.
(14:53):
But true to the land of Narnia depictions ofanimals.
Now the boy Shasta, he continues his lifenow as a slave.
But to get to the point later in his life,Shasta discovers that he is the long lost
twin brother to the young man who wasbecoming king, so he's been a prince all this
time. The twin brother Prince?
Yeah. And that young man, his twin brother.
(15:13):
After they meet each other, he finds outthat he doesn't even want to be king.
He says, Will you do it for me?
And so he's glad to give it to his brother,who is Shasta.
So Shasta immediately becomes king, andimmediately he no longer lives as a slave who
obeys his master's commands and lives out offear and obedience.
He has all the resources of the kingdom athis disposal.
That is what we have.
(15:34):
And once we believe that, it changeseverything.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I will no longer read this story with this horse talking without picturing Mister (15:37):
undefined
Ed now, so I appreciate that.
Mark Fields: Okay, Wilbur. (15:43):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: That's right. Yeah. (15:44):
undefined
Sorry. Keep going. Yes.
Mark Fields: Okay. All right. One more point before we move on. (15:47):
undefined
And I don't want this to take away from themain point, but the last sentence in that
says if indeed we suffer with him so thatwe may also be glorified with him.
In other words, it seems to say you won't bea joint heir until you suffer, because that
if indeed sounds conditional,
Ross O'Hair: Right. (16:04):
undefined
Mark Fields: But this is not a conditional statement that says if you don't go through suffering in (16:05):
undefined
this life, you won't become a joint heirwith Christ.
If that were the case, how much sufferingwould be required?
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. (16:13):
undefined
Mark Fields: Lose your job? Lose some friends? (16:14):
undefined
How many friends? Get cancer?
Be martyred? What's the condition that willnow qualify you to be a joint heir?
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yeah. (16:20):
undefined
Mark Fields: That word, if is many times also translated "since." And the suffering here refers to the (16:21):
undefined
Co-crucifixion, Co-burial, Co-resurrection,the co-experience that we had with Jesus
Christ as described in Romans 3 to 6.
Right. And so you could read this.
Since you have experienced the cross ofChrist, you have suffered with him and gone
through that same experience. Now you arethe same hair as Christ.
Ross O'Hair: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. (16:44):
undefined
Yeah. I've always read it the other way, ifindeed we suffer.
And I've kind of always put the the world'sstamp on it.
Well, yeah, we all suffer, so I'm includedin that.
But if we look at it the other way, sincewe've been crucified and buried and raised
with God, that suffering is what we'vejoined him with.
Mark Fields: Now, there may be suffering in this life, and that may be a consequence of our witness and (17:02):
undefined
testimony, but it's not required.
Ross O'Hair: Which is great. I mean, because we've talked about that multiple times through our study (17:08):
undefined
of Romans so far, about how we have beencrucified and buried with Christ and how that
even connects to this, how we're new.
We have a new identity because of thatburial, crucifixion and burial and
resurrection with him.
So this fits in perfectly with what he'ssaying there.
That suffering that we've experienced notjust changes our identity, but connects us to
(17:29):
him and glorifies us with him.
Mark Fields: It's funny if you took that as conditional. (17:31):
undefined
Now we're right back into fear again.
Ross O'Hair: Exactly. Yes. Yeah. (17:34):
undefined
Mark Fields: And we want to operate out of love, which he does. (17:35):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Perfect. Okay. (17:37):
undefined
We've covered only three verses here today,but there's a lot in here.
How do we sum it up? How do we have a finaltakeaway here for these verses?
Mark Fields: Okay. The Holy Spirit is always telling us we are his children and God is our father. (17:45):
undefined
As we receive and gain confidence in thistruth from the Spirit, we receive as generous
love and grace more readily.
Our perspective aligns with what God isdoing now.
We're motivated by love and not fear.
We can find encouragement, hope, comfort inthe midst of challenges before us.
(18:06):
Then we can express Christ's life in actionsof kindness, love, and encouragement to
others. Despite the hardships, temptations,and trials of life, we can find comfort and
strength in knowing that we are children ofGod, heirs of his Kingdom, and recipients of
the glorious future that awaits us.
As we trust our Heavenly Father and stand onhis truth, we are encouraged.
We have hope. We have peace.
We have his strength to face whateverchallenge or difficulty is before us.
Ross O'Hair: You know, it's crazy as you're saying that. (18:30):
undefined
And it's ringing true in me, like I thinkback in my life.
And how just understanding of who I am andhow I've been crucified with Christ.
And I'm now one of his children.
It just it's one of those things thatradically changed my life.
And to just continue to think about it, andmarinate on it, and meditate on this truth.
(18:51):
It's just I don't think it can be overstatedhow important it is for us to truly
understand how loved and accepted we are,and the fact that we are fully at peace with
the God of the universe, and not just atpeace, but we're his kids that he loves is
such a like, it's the best news out there.
And the more and more we can just meditateon this and think about it, the more it just
(19:14):
softens our heart and makes us realize howblessed we really are, even if our life is
falling apart.
This truth is so powerful.
It's amazing. So I really appreciate youlaying it out there for us and explaining it
to us. It really. Thanks for your time againtoday, Mark, I appreciate it.
Yep. And guys, again, thanks so much forlistening to today's episode.
This is part three of six in Romans 8.
So we've got three more to go.
(19:35):
Before we end, I just want to remind youguys it really helps if you guys would leave
a review. So thanks so much for doing that.
And we'll see you guys next week on theLiving in Jesus podcast.
undefined
Have you ever wondered if fear or lovemotivate you to obey God?
Maybe you have doubts about the reasonsbehind your faithfulness.
Questioning whether your actions are drivenby genuine love or an underlying fear of
punishment. Or maybe you have moments whenyou feel like a servant of a distant god, or
a pawn in a cosmic battle.
(00:23):
More than you feel like a son or a daughter.
Perhaps you struggle with experiencing aclose personal connection to God, and instead
maybe feeling as if you just are fulfillingduties without intimacy.
These questions, addressed in Romans 8:15-17, touch the core of our identity and the
relationship with God, but they also openthe door to deeper understanding and
connection. My name is Ross O'Hair, and I'llbe your host.
(00:47):
And joining me on today's episode is MarkFields.
But before we get into today's discussion,let's take a moment and listen to the
Scripture.
Corrie O'Hair: "For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have (01:07):
undefined
received a spirit of adoption as sons bywhich we cry out, ABBA, father!
The Spirit himself testifies with our spiritthat we are children of God, and if children
heirs also heirs of God and fellow heirswith Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, so
(01:27):
that we may also be glorified with him."
Ross O'Hair: Well, hey, Mark, good to have you back. (01:39):
undefined
We're in part three. How are you doing?
Mark Fields: Hey, Ross. Doing good. (01:41):
undefined
Thanks.
Ross O'Hair: All right, so we just finished verses 5 to 14 last week, and it talked a lot about the (01:42):
undefined
spirit, focused a lot on his role and howwe're in the spirit.
This time, it transitions a little bit tothe focus on us.
So tell us where Paul's taking us here.
Mark Fields: Okay. Yeah. (01:59):
undefined
And we just chose three verses to cover inthis episode because they're so rich and deep
regarding the very central aspect of ourenjoyment of God.
Yeah, these few verses are signature versesabout our favorite topic around here, our
identity in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: That's right. Yeah, we do love that one. (02:12):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. Now a good segway though. (02:14):
undefined
The last part of verse 14 from the lastepisode leads us right into this section.
Verse 14 says, for all who are being led bythe Spirit of God, these are the sons of God
or daughters. So let's talk about theencouragement we have in knowing that we are
children of God.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (02:29):
undefined
Mark Fields: Now, the first point I want to make is that believers have not received a spirit of (02:30):
undefined
slavery that leads to fear.
That does not come from God.
Any inclination that we are still slavescomes from Satan.
Satan wants us to believe that we are in arelationship of bondage, motivated by fear,
to live in this world.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (02:47):
undefined
Mark Fields: Now, this is similar to second Timothy one seven, where it says that God does not give (02:48):
undefined
us the spirit of fear and timidity, but ofpower, of love, and of a sound mind.
God wants us to enjoy, worship and obey himout of love, not fear.
Fear might be an immediate motivator, but itis not genuine or from the heart.
We don't respond to God because we have toor fear of consequence.
(03:09):
We respond to God out of love as we trusthis heart and base our love and loyalty on
the relationship.
Moving from slave to son or daughter changesour motivation from fear to love.
First John 4:18-19 says, "there is no fearin love.
But perfect love casts out fear because fearinvolves punishment.
And the one who fears is not perfected inlove.
(03:30):
We love because he first loved us."
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. You know, as you're saying, all these verses or bringing up this point, the word (03:32):
undefined
fear we can all really relate to - we canreally connect to.
And when we think about that, like we've allbeen fearful of something, you know,
sometimes fear really can motivate us.
But that motivation is kind of what Paul istalking about here is like, do we want to be
motivated by fear or what's motivating us inthis?
You know.
Mark Fields: So yeah, I think that's a powerful indicator here is fear the emotion. (03:51):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yes, exactly. Yep. (03:54):
undefined
Mark Fields: So now we can enjoy his love. (03:55):
undefined
And in turn, we love ourselves and others.
So next time you feel fear, tell yourself: this is not coming from God. (03:59):
undefined
Satan is trying to send you lies that inducefear in you.
I get to tell myself this all the time,especially regarding future events.
See, I'm an overthinker, Ross, going throughendless what ifs.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (04:15):
undefined
Mark Fields: And this summer I was overwhelmed by the many things I had to do. (04:16):
undefined
I think you remember our conversations onthat.
I realized my racing thoughts had an elementof panic in them, which is fear.
The moment I recognized that this is notcoming from God, but Satan.
I began to relax and tune into God's voiceand direction.
And with a calmer attitude, I began toaddress only what needs to be done next and
(04:38):
not worry over all the things that need tobe done right.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. I remember our conversations for sure. (04:40):
undefined
You had a lot going on this summer.
Do you feel like the way you handled thatfear changed when you had those thoughts?
Like, how did that play out for you thissummer when you were feeling that way?
Mark Fields: Well, the first part of that was, and I've told you about this, about when I'm just (04:52):
undefined
waking up or something. Yeah.
Transition moments.
Ross O'Hair: Yep. (04:57):
undefined
Mark Fields: You recognize it. (04:57):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Sure. (04:58):
undefined
Mark Fields: What am I feeling? (04:59):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (05:00):
undefined
Mark Fields: What's going on here? That's God's gift to us if an indicator of the turmoil we're (05:00):
undefined
experiencing. So when I identified this ispanic.
This is being overwhelmed and fearful.
So this is not from God. There you go.
This is from Satan. Once you identify thesource, now you're moving from lies into
truth.
Ross O'Hair: And how does that connect, though, to our identity? (05:14):
undefined
You know, you said we're bringing we'retalking about our identity.
So if we don't have the spirit of fear,connect that to my identity for me.
Mark Fields: Okay. Well, that's what we're going to move into next, because that comes from that (05:25):
undefined
position of being a slave in a household,which again, is not really current context
for us. But when you move into a child, thenyou have the.
Ross O'Hair: Got it a little bit ahead of the game. (05:36):
undefined
Gotcha. Okay.
Mark Fields: That's okay. Yeah. (05:38):
undefined
So now it says that we have been adoptedinto God's family.
Our position has changed from a slave to amember of the family who now enjoys being
loved by the father and moving again.
This isn't very current for us, but movingfrom slave to son or daughter moves us into
the house. Back in the Roman times orwhatever.
All the help or the slaves moved, you know,lived in their own quarters outside, right?
(05:59):
Now I get to live with the father and notoutside.
And now we have access to his love,instruction and wisdom.
In John 15:15, Jesus tells the disciples, nolonger do I call you slaves, for the slave
does not know what his master is doing.
But I have called you friends for all thingsthat I have heard from my father.
I have made known to you.
(06:20):
But this verse is here in Romans.
Is even an upgrade over friends?
Not only are we friends now, we're children.
We have privy to his closest, most intimateconversations.
We're now sons and daughters.
We're privileged to every familycommunication because we live with our
father.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. What a great picture. (06:34):
undefined
Like you said, in Roman times, the slaveswould live outside the house, and then you'd
have the family and the privilege and thehonor and all the - everything that came with
being in the family was given to that personwhen they came in the house.
I mean, that's just such a cool picture.
So that connects it for me - The dots - likemy question is how does that change our
identity? Well, we don't have to fear Godanymore.
(06:57):
When we're not in the house and we're not inGod's family, fear is one of the only things
that motivates people that aren't in thefamily.
Like you don't have many other optionsbesides that.
In God's family, a whole new set of optionsthat we have to be able to be motivated by.
Mark Fields: And you just brought another image to my mind. (07:12):
undefined
But from slaves to even servants, I rememberwatching a popular show years ago, Downton
Abbey, and my wife had me watch all of it,and we just loved it.
But the servants were always invisible,always attending and staying in the
background. But the family never addressedthem and never included them in the intimate
conversations they were having.
Ross O'Hair: Oh yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. (07:31):
undefined
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it was probablyyou that drove that bus, not Linda.
You wanted to watch the show?
Mark Fields: That's right, I did. I cried, I cried so much. (07:37):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: All right, keep going. (07:40):
undefined
Mark Fields: Yeah. Let's talk about the term ABBA. (07:41):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Okay. (07:43):
undefined
Mark Fields: Abba is the Aramaic word for father. (07:43):
undefined
It implies endearment, intimacy, trust, andapproachability.
It's interesting, though.
Jesus is recorded saying this only once inthe Gospels.
Mark 14. Really?
Yeah. When he was in the Garden ofGethsemane.
I guess that's the only gospel that says itthis way.
And he cries out, ABBA!
The night before his crucifixion.
It's a very intimate, tender time betweenJesus and his father.
(08:06):
It's like saying dad or even daddy.
When my adult daughter Jody calls me on thephone, the first thing she says is daddy.
It tells me she knows I love her and sheloves me.
And it makes me smile.
Such a big smile. And I can imagine God whenwe say, daddy, he's got this big smile on his
face.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, obviously that just screams intimacy. (08:23):
undefined
Closeness. Not every earthly father is greatand intimately, you know, someone you want to
be close to. But when you do have a fatherfigure or a father in your life that does
show love and compassion to you or care toyou.
Yeah, you have that connection.
You have that that crying of daddy you want.
Mark Fields: Going back to that episode of Downton Abbey. (08:42):
undefined
There was a driver that they hired in.
He was an Irish driver, and he was only aservant - dismissed and everything else.
But he fell in love with one of thedaughters.
So he married into the family.
And so he moves in later episodes becausehis wife actually dies.
But later on, now he's a very intimate partof the family.
In fact, he's one of the leading decisionmakers.
(09:04):
So you watch over the seasons as he goesfrom a driver invisible, dismissed into a
trusted, intimate family member.
And so that's an interesting example of thetransition of servant or slave to family.
Yeah. Another one is the movie Ben-Hur.
Now, it came out in the 60s, but I thinkthey just had a remake of it.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, (09:21):
undefined
Mark Fields: But Ben-Hur is the story of a slave becoming a son. (09:21):
undefined
The main character, Judah Ben-Hur, wasfalsely accused of attempted assassination of
a Roman officer. He was made a slave androwed a Roman galley.
In a battle, he saved the life of thecommander of the ship.
The officer adopted him and made him a Romancitizen.
Judah Ben-Hur instantly goes from slavery tofreedom, from oppression to full citizenship
(09:45):
with every right as a son of Rome, and hewas brought from bondage, confinement, and
fear to a life of freedom, inheritance.
And you can see it in the movie.
The next scene, his demeanor immediatelychanges.
He's walking upright, regally.
He began to act like he owned something.
He moved with confidence.
So the assurance of sonship.
Let's talk about that. The spirit testifieswith our spirit that we are indeed children
(10:08):
of God, emphasizing the intimaterelationship we have with God.
Now, we've already talked about in the lastepisode.
There's so many activities of the Spirit inour lives in Romans eight does a great job of
listing all of those activities.
But my favorite is this one - God's spirittestifies, bears witness, confirms, assures
us that we are his children.
And this is not just a one time activitywhen you first become a Christian.
(10:32):
He is continually, without hesitation,without interruption, assuring us, telling us
that we're his children and that God is ourdad.
I mean, this is a conversation happening allthe time, right now as we're having this
podcast and as you out there listening tothis podcast, his spirit is whispering to
your spirit. He's your father.
You're his son. You're his daughter.
(10:52):
That's going on all the time, continually.
Ross O'Hair: Why do you think Paul is addressing these things at this point in Romans 8? (10:55):
undefined
You know, we just finished talking about theSpirit.
And if you're in the Spirit, then you walkby the Spirit.
Like, why is he then piggybacking that herewith these verses and trying to really drive
home who we are and our status?
Mark Fields: Well, the first part of Romans 8, we had talked about how God never leaves us, never (11:13):
undefined
condemns us, and how all of these, I don'twant to call them mechanical works, let's
call them transformational works of the HolySpirit, of how he convinces us, leads us and
guides us and all that. Now he wants to turnthe attention to this is why he can do this.
Because of who he's made you to be, and howhe's lovingly brought you into his family.
You're his child.
(11:34):
He's your father. And so now it's not just atactical kind of process of, oh, he's showing
me these instructions and now I can dobetter as a Christian.
Now he's bringing in the intimaterelationship that we have with him, our
identity in Christ.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. I mean, because even in these three verses, I mean, he's going over time to show (11:45):
undefined
us how connected we are to God now, how newwe are in God's family.
Like he's just he's laying it on thick inthese three verses.
And obviously the reason is he wants us tomake sure that we know this because it's a
foundational thing.
(12:06):
If we know that, then we know that he's atwork in us and that we have a loving father
as opposed to something, someone, some beingout there that we need to fear.
You know, this punishment, this wrath.
So it feels like it's a very pivotal changepoint within this chapter.
He's explaining stuff, but this is kind ofthat central part where it's like, you have
to know who you are in order for this tomake sense.
Mark Fields: And who he is, because Romans 8:1 talked about condemnation, which puts him kind of in (12:28):
undefined
a judge and a victim relationship now as afather and a child.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, (12:35):
undefined
Mark Fields: Much more personal. (12:36):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Well, it feels like it's like these are two things, like, you have to know these things (12:37):
undefined
and you have to be convinced of them inorder for life to make sense - the Christian
life to make sense in some ways.
Mark Fields: Well, yeah, for me, it's my only secure grounding or center point or foundation to (12:47):
undefined
navigate through all of the messages andinfluences we're going after.
Ross O'Hair: Right. So he he's gone over three points so far. (12:56):
undefined
How we don't have a spirit of fear.
We've been transitioned into God's family, and we have an assurance of our sonship or
daughtership in his family.
Where does he take us next?
Mark Fields: Well, then he moves into the whole aspect of inheritance because children get to inherit (13:09):
undefined
something from their parents.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. (13:15):
undefined
Mark Fields: But the interesting thing here is we already have his inheritance. (13:16):
undefined
I mean, Ephesians 1:3 says, "blessed be theGod and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who
has blessed us with every spiritual blessingwe have received the inheritance."
Interesting side note on that for you to getan inheritance, somebody has to die.
Ross O'Hair: Right, Yeah. (13:34):
undefined
Mark Fields: Jesus died. We don't have to wait till we get to heaven to receive all these blessings and (13:35):
undefined
inheritance. He's already given them to usbecause his death delivered them to us.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, that makes sense. (13:42):
undefined
Mark Fields: So now, in the day of my salvation, 50 something years ago, I received immediately (13:43):
undefined
all the blessings, all the inheritance thatGod has for me.
And that inheritance not only includes, Iguess, eternal life, streets of gold, a
better body someday, but love, joy, peace,patience, courage, outlook, rest that he
gives me.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, the inheritance like I love how you brought that up. (14:01):
undefined
It's not just heaven, but it's here and now.
The presence of God is that peace that weget, the joy that we get.
It's the Spirit living in us.
That's the inheritance we have.
And, man, that's the greatest gift we couldever receive.
Mark Fields: It is. It is. Now an illustration of that is a story I'm going to bring out from The (14:15):
undefined
Chronicles of Narnia, but a story aboutunderstanding your inheritance once you know
your position and your identity.
One of the books in the series, TheChronicles of Narnia, is called A Boy and His
Horse. Did you ever read that one?
Ross O'Hair: I did, yeah. (14:30):
undefined
Mark Fields: Oh, it's a great story. (14:30):
undefined
Um, anyway, there was a boy named Shasta whowas being raised by a cruel fisherman.
It turns out this fisherman found the boy asa baby in a drifting boat.
So he's not even his dad.
So a visiting nobleman buys Shasta as aslave.
Oh, and then the boy has a horse.
This is the boy. And his horse is thetalking horse.
Of course, with Narnia kids, not Mister Ed,but that's another story.
(14:53):
But true to the land of Narnia depictions ofanimals.
Now the boy Shasta, he continues his lifenow as a slave.
But to get to the point later in his life,Shasta discovers that he is the long lost
twin brother to the young man who wasbecoming king, so he's been a prince all this
time. The twin brother Prince?
Yeah. And that young man, his twin brother.
(15:13):
After they meet each other, he finds outthat he doesn't even want to be king.
He says, Will you do it for me?
And so he's glad to give it to his brother,who is Shasta.
So Shasta immediately becomes king, andimmediately he no longer lives as a slave who
obeys his master's commands and lives out offear and obedience.
He has all the resources of the kingdom athis disposal.
That is what we have.
(15:34):
And once we believe that, it changeseverything.
Ross O'Hair: Yeah, I will no longer read this story with this horse talking without picturing Mister (15:37):
undefined
Ed now, so I appreciate that.
Mark Fields: Okay, Wilbur. (15:43):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: That's right. Yeah. (15:44):
undefined
Sorry. Keep going. Yes.
Mark Fields: Okay. All right. One more point before we move on. (15:47):
undefined
And I don't want this to take away from themain point, but the last sentence in that
says if indeed we suffer with him so thatwe may also be glorified with him.
In other words, it seems to say you won't bea joint heir until you suffer, because that
if indeed sounds conditional,
Ross O'Hair: Right. (16:04):
undefined
Mark Fields: But this is not a conditional statement that says if you don't go through suffering in (16:05):
undefined
this life, you won't become a joint heirwith Christ.
If that were the case, how much sufferingwould be required?
Ross O'Hair: Right. Yeah. (16:13):
undefined
Mark Fields: Lose your job? Lose some friends? (16:14):
undefined
How many friends? Get cancer?
Be martyred? What's the condition that willnow qualify you to be a joint heir?
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Yeah. (16:20):
undefined
Mark Fields: That word, if is many times also translated "since." And the suffering here refers to the (16:21):
undefined
Co-crucifixion, Co-burial, Co-resurrection,the co-experience that we had with Jesus
Christ as described in Romans 3 to 6.
Right. And so you could read this.
Since you have experienced the cross ofChrist, you have suffered with him and gone
through that same experience. Now you arethe same hair as Christ.
Ross O'Hair: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. (16:44):
undefined
Yeah. I've always read it the other way, ifindeed we suffer.
And I've kind of always put the the world'sstamp on it.
Well, yeah, we all suffer, so I'm includedin that.
But if we look at it the other way, sincewe've been crucified and buried and raised
with God, that suffering is what we'vejoined him with.
Mark Fields: Now, there may be suffering in this life, and that may be a consequence of our witness and (17:02):
undefined
testimony, but it's not required.
Ross O'Hair: Which is great. I mean, because we've talked about that multiple times through our study (17:08):
undefined
of Romans so far, about how we have beencrucified and buried with Christ and how that
even connects to this, how we're new.
We have a new identity because of thatburial, crucifixion and burial and
resurrection with him.
So this fits in perfectly with what he'ssaying there.
That suffering that we've experienced notjust changes our identity, but connects us to
(17:29):
him and glorifies us with him.
Mark Fields: It's funny if you took that as conditional. (17:31):
undefined
Now we're right back into fear again.
Ross O'Hair: Exactly. Yes. Yeah. (17:34):
undefined
Mark Fields: And we want to operate out of love, which he does. (17:35):
undefined
Ross O'Hair: Yeah. Perfect. Okay. (17:37):
undefined
We've covered only three verses here today,but there's a lot in here.
How do we sum it up? How do we have a finaltakeaway here for these verses?
Mark Fields: Okay. The Holy Spirit is always telling us we are his children and God is our father. (17:45):
undefined
As we receive and gain confidence in thistruth from the Spirit, we receive as generous
love and grace more readily.
Our perspective aligns with what God isdoing now.
We're motivated by love and not fear.
We can find encouragement, hope, comfort inthe midst of challenges before us.
(18:06):
Then we can express Christ's life in actionsof kindness, love, and encouragement to
others. Despite the hardships, temptations,and trials of life, we can find comfort and
strength in knowing that we are children ofGod, heirs of his Kingdom, and recipients of
the glorious future that awaits us.
As we trust our Heavenly Father and stand onhis truth, we are encouraged.
We have hope. We have peace.
We have his strength to face whateverchallenge or difficulty is before us.
Ross O'Hair: You know, it's crazy as you're saying that. (18:30):
undefined
And it's ringing true in me, like I thinkback in my life.
And how just understanding of who I am andhow I've been crucified with Christ.
And I'm now one of his children.
It just it's one of those things thatradically changed my life.
And to just continue to think about it, andmarinate on it, and meditate on this truth.
(18:51):
It's just I don't think it can be overstatedhow important it is for us to truly
understand how loved and accepted we are,and the fact that we are fully at peace with
the God of the universe, and not just atpeace, but we're his kids that he loves is
such a like, it's the best news out there.
And the more and more we can just meditateon this and think about it, the more it just
(19:14):
softens our heart and makes us realize howblessed we really are, even if our life is
falling apart.
This truth is so powerful.
It's amazing. So I really appreciate youlaying it out there for us and explaining it
to us. It really. Thanks for your time againtoday, Mark, I appreciate it.
Yep. And guys, again, thanks so much forlistening to today's episode.
This is part three of six in Romans 8.
So we've got three more to go.
(19:35):
Before we end, I just want to remind youguys it really helps if you guys would leave
a review. So thanks so much for doing that.
And we'll see you guys next week on theLiving in Jesus podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.