Disruption in the New Human Renaissance | Dr. Scott W Mills | Ep. 24 - Living Leaders

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back leaders to anotherepisode of the living leaders
podcast, Scott, I am so thrilledto have you here today.
Every time I talk to you, Ilearn something new.
And I just know that ourlisteners are going to take a
lot away from this conversation.
Oh, that's so sweet.
Thank you.
I feel the same about you.
We started this conversationbefore we even begin recording
and already my mind is just ablaze with all of your wisdom.

(00:22):
And so I feel like we're kindredspirits.
So just a blast to talk to youanytime I get to.
Likewise.
And I know that each of us arereally seeing nuances and
different things on the globallandscape when it comes to
leadership.
I know today one of ourintentions is to really look at
what is happening withleadership and in this
transition that we findourselves in business at this

(00:45):
very specific time where we arefacing Climate disaster.
We have political unrest.
A.
I.
Is exponentially on the riseamong other emerging
technologies.
I know that listeners will alsoreally be interested in your
background.
Before we get into some of thesense making of what it is
that's really happening on theleadership landscape today,

(01:07):
would you mind sharing a littlebit more about your background
and the unique combination ofskills that you're working with.
Cause it's, this is fascinatingto me too, all the things that
you're bringing together tosynthesize.
Sure.
Sure.
It's always funny.
I was at a party recently withmy mom.
So I'm staying down close tothem to be.
With my family and someone saidto my mom, what does Scott do?

(01:30):
And my mom came up and told meafterwards, and she said, I
never know what to tell people.
And it's a little difficultbecause for about 30 years now,
I have been playing in thisfield of some version of human
development and systems work.
So that started really with thisinitial work was working in HIV

(01:51):
prevention.
Back in the early nineties, midnineties, working with kids at
the height of the epidemic,trying to find ways to keep kids
from becoming HIV positive,because there was not a lot of
information.
People weren't hearing what theyneeded to.
And, the kids who we worked withwere homeless, who were poor,
they didn't have a sense of,appropriate risk and reward.

(02:14):
They were putting their lives indanger.
Because they were, scared orignorant or whatever.
So I started there but I'vealways been fascinated and I
think this is where thisinterest in policy and complex
systems came from, because I wasworking on like a federal
demonstration project to create.
Life skills for kids andresilience.
This resilience piece came upvery early, looking at kids in

(02:37):
really hard spaces and about 17years ago, I had done my
dissertation.
I'd gotten really interested ingraduate school in the world of
work, my doctorate is a combineddegree between religion,
psychology and transformationaleducation models.
So I worked in this intersectionand my dissertation actually was

(02:58):
so weird.
For my committee, it was writtenin five disciplines which they
were not used to.
So we had to have an economiston my committee and we had to
have a theologian and apsychologist because my interest
was in, at that point, how do wecreate a secular ethic of work?
It really came down to thisplace.
The Dalai Lama had written abook called ethics for a new
millennium, which is a gorgeousbook if you haven't had a chance

(03:19):
to read it.
And I looked at that and I waslooking around at all of these
workplaces and people beingunhappy people wanting to leave
their jobs.
I really think what we're seeingnow with things like silent
quitting and the greatresignation, they were all
rooted much earlier.
I was looking at how do we eventalk about work in a way that it
can be meaningful?

(03:41):
So I wrote this dissertation,started to play very early in
working with entrepreneurs,thought leaders, to figure out
what made sense for them andcontinue to work in resilience.
So now I've worked with allthese global thought leaders.
I've gotten to play with peoplewho are Oscar nominated, Tony
winners consult withgovernments.

(04:02):
And we're always looking at thesame things we're looking at.
What are the systems that theseproblems exist in?
And so the fun thing to me is.
I was talking to a friend theother day and I realized that
people don't pay me or invite meto talk because of a particular
solution to a problem, butrather a way of thinking about

(04:22):
problems.
So this is the place theacademic comes in that says,
we've got a set of Problems thatwe often try to solve in a very
narrow frame.
So even talking about theseissues of leadership in the
context of business is a narrowframe at first.
But if we widen the frame and westart to look at things like how

(04:45):
is business affected byeducation?
Talk about some reallyinteresting examples of that.
And historically this has beenthe case, right?
I was just telling someone theother day that he said, Oh,
these kids are, what was it,something about kids were
working later or longer, peoplewere having to compete.
And I said, Oh yeah, we didn'thave that until World War II
when the veterans came back andwe needed to have jobs for

(05:06):
people.
We made high school longer.
So that they wouldn't becompeting with kids.
We were building in oureducation system.
We were building spaces forpeople to be office workers or
factory workers.
Now we're wondering why we can'tget innovative thinkers.
It's because the education modelis still stuck in that same
place.
We start to look at complexsystems where we might talk

(05:27):
about education, we might talkabout meaning everything I play
in is how do we look at thecomplexity of the situation and
find where the real levers are,what's, first of all, what's
really going on, because a lotof times we're looking in the
wrong place I think the easiestway to think about this is if
you go into Your doctor or yourchiropractor, or massage

(05:48):
therapist, whoever, and you say,my shoulder's hurting.
And they go, okay, let me workon your shoulder.
This is kinda the way we solveproblems.
But the reality is our body is acomplex system and so often the
muscles and the skeletal system,It's actually pulling maybe from
a hip or maybe it's from a footthat's affecting the whole
system.

(06:09):
So I love looking at the wholesystem and first finding like,
where is the real problem?
What's really going on here?
This is a very Buddhist concept,which is called being with what
is.
Letting ourselves follow thetruth, wherever it leads you.
And then once we have a sense ofwhat the system is, we've mapped
it.
For those of your people who areabout systems thinking, I know
they'll have studied Peter Sengeand so much of the work around

(06:31):
learning systems.
We're looking to define alearning system and all of the
complex inputs that are cominginto it.
And then we can start to say,how do we shift it?
So that's probably more in depththan you wanted, but It's I feel
like that's useful to understandfor your audience in particular,
the way we approach thesethings, because it's much more

(06:53):
interesting for me to get agroup of people around the table
and see all of theirperspectives.
That's part of why I loveworking with you in
conversation.
We play, we can see differentangles.
And the truth is never in 1angle.
The truth is, have 10 peoplearound the table, maybe an
economist, a physicist,educator.

(07:14):
Psychologists working onresilience.
All of this is going to hold apiece of the truth.
And so the trick is to noticethat all of those truths
together actually paint a muchbetter picture of the system
than only one person's.
Yeah, beautifully said there'ssomething so powerful about

(07:34):
doing that multi perspectiveillumination and really looking
at a question or a problem andputting that in the center.
And I love what you said aboutusing something like that for
investigating what is it that'sreally going on.
Often when I think of sensemaking, I think of something
similar where it's going to takeall of us.

(07:56):
It's going to take the computingpower of all of us and maybe AI
as well as a partner to reallysense make what is happening
because we do seem to beoperating at such a high level
of complexity.
These days, the pace has gone.
And Up to some extent, unlessyou're someone like me who's
maybe taken a step back from therat race to slow down to get

(08:18):
into the right nervous systemstate to even be able to be
sentient enough to be out of thenoise enough that I can start to
do some of that patternrecognition and the way that
you're describing.
Systems work and howinterconnected it is.
I think you're so right.
We can't actually look at thesethings in isolation.

(08:39):
that's part of the problem insome way of the mechanistic view
that we are still very muchoperating in when we look at our
systems today.
I'm curious, you talked aboutfinding the levers.
When you imagine thisinterconnected system that is
created by and run by humans, Ioften say these issues are not

(09:01):
purely leadership issues, theseare deeply human issues as well,
because we show up to all ofthese systems, so how are you
sense making The complexity thatwe're in and what are some of
the biggest levers that you'reseeing right now that we might
be able to collectively pull orplay with together.
What do you think some of thosemost important levers even are?

(09:25):
These are amazing questions.
I want to say something aboutsomething you said first this
conversation could be so rich,we could go 100 different
directions, but I want to justacknowledge you said that.
There's people like you who havestepped out of the rat race and
slowed down.
And when we talk about levers, Iwant to identify this as
actually one of the biggestlevers of possibility.

(09:48):
We have been in a culture thathas thrived on consumerism and
really throw away consumerism.
There's a radical differencefrom my grandmother who came
over from Germany right afterWorld War II who, when she
bought something, she paid cash,she never bought in credit, and
she bought the best thing thatshe could get.
And then she used it for yearsand years, right?

(10:11):
Very different than where we arenow.
Where we have to keep up withthe Joneses and everybody else,
now the Instagram culture,everybody's living their best
life.
And so one of the things that Ifind.
really hopeful right away isthat there actually are people
all over the U.
S.
and around the world that I talkto all the time who are saying

(10:33):
the same thing and actuallydon't see themselves mirrored
because this is not theconversation our dominant,
popular culture is having aboutreally a shift from more to
better.
And I don't have any problemwith people buying things.
Like I'm not a minimalist.
I'm not.
Saying you shouldn't buyanything ever, but I think

(10:53):
what's been interesting is we'vebeen sold a perspective that we
were going to buy something thatwill make us feel better, be
better have a better life andthe shift, and this has actually
been really obvious, even in theresearch lately to experience
right?
People don't want more things.
People want experiences.
They want to have depth.
So not surprising.

(11:14):
We have a loneliness epidemicgoing on in the Western world.
All of these, to me, arespeaking to a larger existential
crisis that workers in Americaare having, in workers in other
countries.
So we, when we look at dynamics,and this was part of my research
and it's been fascinating foryears and years, when we look at
dynamics, like why are peopleactively disengaged or even just

(11:36):
disengaged?
the peer research around this isfascinating and the cost to
companies.
And part of it is because theythink nobody cares about them.
And the work they're doing isfor the benefit of someone else,
and there is no loyalty to them.
So they, whether that's true ornot that's the perception,
depending on the company.
So we've got all of thesedissatisfied people.

(11:59):
In a system that isfundamentally broken.
It's made for a world that we nolonger live in.
It's accelerating this kind ofconsumer throwaway culture if we
want to call it that isaccelerating things like global
warming as accelerating so muchof this culture.
So I actually see folks who arechoosing to not opt out of the

(12:23):
system but ask for betterinstead of more to be one of the
biggest levers.
The people like you and I arehaving this conversation.
I used to live in a.
Giant penthouse on the top floorof this gorgeous.
Obviously, that's where thepenthouses are right.
The big view of the park and,this huge balcony that I had,
garden on and there wassomething in me at some point

(12:46):
that said, I'm using about 20%of this apartment three
bedrooms.
I used one.
I didn't even use my office.
I like to be in the living roomwhere the light was or sit at
the kitchen counter.
And I started to think aboutthat.
And I thought, why is it thatI'm in this space?
There's no real reason for me tobe here.
It doesn't bring me joy.
It costs a lot.

(13:07):
And so now I have this beautifulapartment that I love.
It's a one bedroom, reallycomfortable and it's funny
because I know people sometimesare like, Oh, but you're
supposed to be, living this bigluxurious life.
But I was reading Liz Gilbert'sInstagram a while ago and she
said, here I am in a 600 squarefoot apartment to write my next
book.

(13:27):
And this is comfortable for me.
And more and more, I thinkpeople are realizing that excess
isn't comfortable.
It's actually exhausting.
Yes, so as we realize the waythat we are living is out of
touch with the natural rhythmsof our bodies of the planet of
each other.

(13:48):
To me, that's actually one ofthose moments of leverage.
So you are living.
You're embodying it for us.
So that's the first piece beforewe go anywhere else.
But I want to pause because Iknow I just threw a lot out
there.
Yeah to mirror some of that backand share how much that
resonates.
I do think the level ofconsumerism that we've been in
has been quite a burden and itdoes feel exhausting to have

(14:12):
more your responsibilities grow.
It takes up space.
It takes our attention outsideof ourselves and outside of our
relationships.
So I do think that part of whatyou're describing in that
there's so many ingredients thatI see as this has contributed to
the sickness of our culture.
And as we step into this massivehealing moment and heal from the

(14:34):
inside out to decide anddetermine.
What it is that we really careabout the pandemic was a huge
moment of reflection around thiswhere we all had to pause and
reflect and ask ourselves whatreally matters.
To your point where we're comingout realizing, oh wow, when I'm
on my deathbed.
What is it that is reallyimportant it's the people it's

(14:55):
not the things that I had oraccumulated in my life, and
it's, did I live a life ofintegrity.
So I think.
There's this upgrade orenhancement that I'm often
seeing among leaders, especiallyand I when I use that word,
sometimes I hesitate to even usethe word leader because not
everyone self identifies as aleader.

(15:16):
And yet I think a leader cansit.
Anywhere in an organization or acommunity or society, and I'm
seeing this upgrade of valuesessentially into a new set of
rules or a new paradigm, whetherthat's the paradigm of business,
the paradigm of community orfamily or whatever it might be,
again, to your earlier point,these systems are intrinsically

(15:39):
connected.
So I just wanted to pull on thatthread a little bit of I really
hearing what you're saying thatThe values seem to be changing
and what we see as significantor meaningful in our lives is
evolving as well.
I do wanna hear about the otherlevers that you're seeing
particularly as they relate tothe evolution of leadership,

(16:01):
that we seem to be in.
Let's hang out here for a bitmore.
You just said so much that Ilove.
Part of what being an academicis about is actually realizing
the difference between what Ijust want to call humble mind
and arrogant mind.
So I think this is a really goodplace as people are listening to
conversations if they'rethinking thoughts about
hopefully you're thinkingthoughts, bigger questions in

(16:24):
your life about what it means tobe alive.
I love that you said, that we'rethinking about what our lives
mean and will there be anyvalue?
I love Dr.
Donna McCullough's poem.
I shall not die in unlived life.
That just pops into my mind, butI'm listening to all this in.
There's a couple of things Iwant to point out.
First is, I love your definitionof leaders coming from anywhere.

(16:47):
I think if somebody needs tounderstand this, we think of
leadership as top down, which isactually not how the world works
anymore.
It's actually never how theworld worked, but it used to go
slow enough that we couldpretend.
Together.
Yeah we agreed to a collectivedelusion, which is how we live,
right?
All of our cultural agreementsare really cultural delusion,

(17:08):
right?
What's a democracy?
What's socialism?
What's whatever kind ofgovernment system?
We're going to agree this issomething that's real.
It's just an idea we agreed to.
So if you think about thingsfrom a top down, it's very
different than when you thinkabout an organic system.
So if you think about just for aminute, think about a pond, what

(17:29):
is the leader in the pond?
Now, most people who think topdown will say it's the biggest
fish in the pond.
It's the apex predator, the onethat eats the little fish, but
that predator can only be in oneplace in a pond, right?
If it's on the north side of thepond and something else is going
on the south side, probablywon't even hear about it.
There's no internet in the pondyet.

(17:49):
No, so wait, but the reality ofa pond is if you throw a rock in
any part of the pond, theripples affect the rest of the
pond.
So when we think aboutleadership, to me, if we're
thinking about an organicsystem, any rock, any person,
any idea can become a disruptionin the pond.

(18:12):
It can create ripples.
So even if you are the janitor,then all you're doing is you're
saying hello to people.
Thank you.
And you're just seeing themthere.
There's great research.
If you have a chance to look atDasher Keltner's work on wonder
and awe and gratitude.
He's at UC Berkeley.
The research is really clear.

(18:33):
A simple moment of being seenwill ripple throughout the rest
of the day.
So anybody in an organizationcan have an impact.
It's harder now.
I think that we've gone, online,working from home.
We don't have as deep ofconnections, but we have all
these places that we can beleaders.
And if we got really, if we dugreally deep, we'd start to play

(18:55):
with something in thepsychological world.
We call parallel process.
So that layers or levels of acompany or an organization,
whatever's happening at the toplayer usually is mirrored in a
pattern of the secondary leveland the tertiary level.
So when I was working years agowith an art therapy community in
DC that was working with kidswhose parents were HIV positive,

(19:18):
the board ran through a periodwhen they were really
disheveled, right?
There was going through a bigtransition.
Very quickly, the staff startedto mirror that very quickly.
The client started to mirrorthat where we saw three layers.
So we'll see these processes,even when something is segmented
out and we think nothing cantouch.

(19:40):
It's not true.
It's not how life works.
So I want to point that out.
And the other piece I want topoint out that I just find so
fascinating.
You talked about a healingmoment and I look a lot at the
possibility of a new humanrenaissance, because I've been
sitting in this space of, yes,the world is in chaos.

(20:02):
Yes, things are difficult.
And There seems to be this hugepossibility because we've done
things like connect globally.
It's so much harder to bexenophobic when I can jump on a
zoom call and be in a class withpeople from India, from South
Africa, from Europe, whichhappens every week in my life.

(20:25):
People who never could have meteach other, who had stories
about each other because theywere across the country or
across the planet now actuallysit down and say, Oh, look,
we're really similar.
We have the same needs, the samedesires.
So one of those levers isactually global connection.
And this is a long conversationabout globalism and the way that

(20:47):
we're connecting, but I want topoint out an interesting piece
about this healing moment.
For me in the work that I do,the very first.
Place we always start is seeingwhat is, it's a moment of truth
COVID has a similar aftermath to9 11 and people may get mad
because I'm going to say this,but I'm going to say it anyway.

(21:08):
9 11 happened and we had anopportunity to actually gather
together as a people.
Humans are amazing in crises.
We come together, we get overour differences, we see
connections, we help each other.
There's just some part of usthat recognizes that's another
being that's in need.

(21:30):
So we have this beautifulpossibility, and people were
thinking deep in some of thesame ways that COVID, has done
to us.
It gave us this moment ofreflection, and then we got the
clarion call to go back to thestore.
Keep America shopping.
That's what's going to keep usmoving.
We moved the conversation out ofthe place of depth because the

(21:54):
depth conversation is alwaysdisruptive.
It can't help but be disruptivebecause the more we think about
what we really want, the more werealize that We may not have
been choosing, we've beensleepwalking.
The reason I'm sharing this isbecause when we look at COVID,
what I found fascinating is wehad this two year period, which

(22:15):
was massively disruptive.
I spent most of COVID talkingabout trauma, the trauma bath
that we were in.
People were like what's a traumabath, right?
So we actually got someconversation about trauma.
And most of us now have sufferedsomething.
we think about PTSD, but there'ssomething called complex PTSD,
which mostly happens for kidswho are bullied a ton, often

(22:36):
LGBTQ kids people who are ineconomically disadvantaged
areas, racial minorities, folkswho essentially we're killed by
a hundred little cuts.
It's not somebody comes up andhits you over the head with a
club, it's every day somebodyputs you down, somebody makes
you smaller, somebody puts youinto a place where you are in

(22:57):
survival mode.
So we went through this complexPTSD experience for most of us.
And it's interesting becausecomplex PTSD has just recently
been identified makes the worldmake so much more sense.
And what we've.
Mostly done is ignored it.
If we look, there's six, six,almost seven, I looked the other
day, it's almost people havedied globally around COVID or

(23:21):
from COVID.
People are still dying.
These conversations havedisappeared.
There has been no collectivemourning.
Or grief or movement throughtrauma, and so we wanted to get
back to life as normal.
That's a really interestingplace to be because I just want
you to think about for a minutewhat happens if you have a fight

(23:44):
with your partner, because theydid something that you were
really upset about.
Maybe they don't even know theydid it, right?
but you want the relationship tojust keep on moving.
So you just swallow it down andthen you see them do something
else that kind of reminds you ofthat.
You swallow it down and youswallow it down.
Before you know it, you'reliterally tense, anxious, right?

(24:06):
There's got to be somewhere forthat stuff to go.
And we have not allowed.
Anywhere for this stuff to go intwo respects, primarily, we
haven't allowed for any of themotion to move.
So some of what we're seeingright now, and I'm literally
talking to people around theworld constantly about
existential crisis.

(24:27):
They don't know that word.
They feel listless.
They feel depressed.
They feel anxious.
They know something is wrong.
They can't figure out what itis.
Because nobody's talking aboutit.
It's like it would be as if wewent through a massive trauma
and everyone went, don't sayanything because it might go

(24:47):
away.
That's not how it works.
I think 70 people died.
So that's the first piece ofthis that I find fascinating.
We have been ignoring thispossibility for massive
transformation.
This, the second piece that wehave seemed to quickly forgotten
is the incredible movement.
that happened because of COVID.
One of my favorite things thathappened from COVID, obviously

(25:08):
there are horrible things thathappened from COVID, but there
were some shining moments.
And one of them is the way thatthe scientific community came
together around the world toshare real time research all
over the planet.
Nobody was saying, Oh, no, thisis about getting a patent.
We have to guard our research.

(25:29):
We have to keep this informationsecret, but instead there were
massive databases that werebeing shared so that everybody
could get information.
So to me, this is like one ofthose moments where if we can
see what we learned, we can seethe possibility.
We could start to say, wow.
We came up with a, not me, butthe collective will of the

(25:53):
planet.
Together we had a common enemy,which is when humans are at
their best.
When we have a common enemy.
Beginning of COVID really hardbecause we didn't really
understand it.
We didn't know what it was, wedidn't know if looking at
someone across a bus or on TVwas going to cause us to get
COVID, you would see peopledriving around in their cars by
themselves with a mask on, itwas like, what are you worried

(26:14):
you're going to give it toyourself?
It's strange, but we look atthese places where there was
such possibility.
And now for me to say okay if wecould do that with COVID.
What if cancer, was somethingthat we collectively across the
planet decided to work on wherewe weren't worried about
patents.

(26:35):
So I just want to name thatbecause I think there were so
many ways that we came togetherto face a common threat.
As a planet.
And I think there's such apowerful possibility to learn
from this, because we have otherthings like global warming,
right?
That's a complex system.
It doesn't matter if a smallcountry, maybe a little bit, a

(26:55):
small country has a tinyenvironmental impact, right?
They change something great,yay.
But then big countries who arenot doing anything or not doing
enough.
We have a disproportionateimpact.
So there's this place that sayswe actually have to come
together as a global complexsystem because we all live in
the pond we were talking about.

(27:16):
And we have been suffering froma collective delusion that says,
if I'm on the north side of thepond and Fukushima happens, that
it will not affect me, thepeople over on the south side of
the pond.
And we know from research thatthis is affecting the planet, so
many of these collective illsare affecting the planet.

(27:37):
And this is a piece of why whenyou asked me about the context
of leadership, I look at whatare the real questions.
And, one of the things I loveabout the project you're
involved in this leaders onpurpose, and you're involved in
so many amazing things.
But one of the core questionsis, how does business work for
the common good?
If the question the business isasking is just how do we make

(28:02):
money?
How do we get more clients?
How do we get more reach?
And I have this conversationwith entrepreneurs and business
leaders all the time.
Those aren't bad questions,right?
They should be in the questionpool because a company won't
survive.
If it's not making profit, ifit's not.
Expanding its reach, but if it'smissing the larger question of

(28:23):
how do we function for thecommon good, then we're in
trouble.
And I think COVID gave us anopportunity to imagine a
different world, a different wayof connecting globally.
It's interesting.
There's a book called the fourthturning.
And I didn't know this bookuntil recently my friend John
Sinai, who's a futurist and, youcan see his five best selling

(28:47):
books.
He's amazing.
So he introduced me to thisbook.
Fourth Turning is written by,oh, Howe and Strauss.
They're the guys who definedgenerational diversity.
And they started to talk aboutboomers and, Gen X, Y and Z
weren't here yet.
But, they talked about silentgeneration.
They're historians.
They wrote a book in 1997 calledthe 4th turning and the 4th

(29:10):
turning looked at the seasons ofAmerican history.
And I've been trying to find ifanybody's done research in other
countries.
I haven't been able to find any.
They wrote this book.
It was essentially.
A total sleeper.
Nobody paid attention.
The book made an argument thatAmerica goes through these
seasons and that the season thatwe were heading into was winter.

(29:32):
So winter is a time when there'slots of political change.
And one of the things that'sKind of a hallmark of winter in
the system is because somethingnew is coming, it's an
incredibly disruptive period,lots of social unrest, and
they've literally traced thisback to the beginning of the
country, you can see the patterngoing every 20 years about,

(29:55):
roundabout, it's not exact, buta pretty, pretty reasonable
cycle.
And so one of the hallmarksthough in this period is that
old power structures aredissolving.
But because people want to holdon to the old way of doing
things, they cling with a deathgrip.
We're, I feel like we'rewatching that.
So in my mind, we have thispossibility of a whole new

(30:18):
system emerging, of new ways ofconnecting, and yet there are
people working really hard notto see that.
To say, Oh, but we've got tokeep the old way.
And I understand change isscary, right?
Change is not what our nervoussystem is designed for.
We're designed to be as stableas possible to not have.

(30:38):
You know, Anything that'schanged is something we haven't
survived before, right?
And our brains are trained torepeat what we survived over and
over.
And we've survived the system.
So now we have this new systememerging.
The fun thing about, and part ofwhy I think this book is so
interesting, is this book becamea bestseller now twice after the
1997 kind of non release.

(30:59):
Came out super quiet, but in2008 the book became a
bestseller because theyliterally predicted crash of
the, Economic market.
And then it became a bestselleragain in 2020 when COVID
happened because it was smack inwhen they expected something
like this to happen.
So when we talk about largercontext, this is the other piece

(31:22):
that I want to bring in, is wedon't exist out of time, right?
We have a history.
We have larger cultural patternsthat are not very hard to see if
people are students of history.
Obviously we're going into a newway of being, we've got new
things happening, but we havelots and lots of data that shows
us what happens when transitionshappen.

(31:44):
When we move from horses tocars, when we move from
typewriters to computers, towhen we add an internet into the
mix, when we add cell phones,right?
We've had all of thesetransitions.
So I think the historicalcontext is useful.
I'm, I have gone on a tangent,but I think it's important to
paint the picture.
So in my mind, it would bebeautiful if I had a giant
whiteboard and I was drawingthis out for you to be able to

(32:06):
see all of these unique piecesthat then feed into leadership,
which is often happening in avacuum as if we have no history.
I love for people to think, didyou wake up with amnesia?
Have you forgotten the past,both your personal past and the
past as your country, as othercountries we're dealing with?

(32:29):
We have a global history that wecan draw on.
All of what's happening now isin the context of that global
history.
Yeah this feels like reallyimportant wisdom to hold
especially the younger leaderswho are Emerging.
And they're excited about thenew paradigm that's coming.
They're excited about the newwave of technology or of
business.

(32:49):
It's so easy because the futurecan be so sexy.
It can be so alluring.
And yet to your point, there'sall of this wisdom that if we do
look back and if we do look athow, say the nervous system
works and how our body healstrauma, and look at that as.
A microcosm of how wecollectively might shift our

(33:12):
culture, right?
You talked about those who areat least the way I heard it,
those who are fear based and insurvival mode and wanting to
stay comfortable.
They're clinging with the deathgrip because it is a matter of
life or death, or at leastthat's how it might feel in the
body.
There's a whole construct,there's a whole.
reality that feels like it'sbreaking.

(33:33):
And I love the term that youused cultural delusion as the
cultural agreements that we'rein.
I think we can actually look tohow the body heals and releases
trauma.
To look for strategies for howwe as leaders might heal
culturally and what I love abouthow you're expressing this is

(33:56):
that you're touching at thepatterns level.
When you talked about parallelprocessing and that these this
mirroring that can happen acrosslayers.
I also think about how thesecultural patterns they happen
across different fractaledScales essentially right where
it's like we have the culturalpatterns within us in how we're

(34:17):
treating ourselves.
If we're indoctrinated into aconsumer based culture of
extraction and control.
Guess what?
We're probably doing that toourselves internally in our
inner culture and then doing itto one another and playing into
that.
Exploitative transactionalrelational pattern, but if we
can actually heal the culturalor relational patterns across

(34:41):
all of these scales and get thatripple effect and get that
coherence, I think there's justsuch huge potential.
For this healing moment thatwe've been talking about.
And when you were talking aboutthe this ripple I was also
connecting the dots with whatyou were saying about disruption
and healing.

(35:01):
Sometimes there are thosedisruptive moments.
Disruption isn't alwaystechnology.
It might actually be askingsomeone the real question,
asking someone, No, how are youreally?
Or how did that thing that youjust went through impact you?
And it's this pattern interruptthat takes us into a different
space.
And now we can process thingsdifferently.

(35:23):
Now we can feel our feelings.
We can Be in the griefprocessing together that we've
been so avoidant of postpandemic.
So whether we're patterninterrupting at the one on one
level, or like you said,convening around a big, bold
question.
This is also so significant atthis moment, because if we're

(35:46):
not asking.
Different questions.
We're not going to get todifferent answers.
If we keep asking, how do wemake our business more
profitable?
It's okay, we've been playingthat game for a while.
There are unintendedconsequences and all sorts of
things that come from that.
But what are the questions?
That we're not asking, how do wedisrupt these patterns at the

(36:08):
one on one relational level, butalso at the systems level.
And so I find myself curious inall of the circles that you're
playing in and exploring all ofthe topics that I know you're so
passionate about.
What are some of these questionsthat you're sitting with and
maybe even what are thequestions that collectively

(36:29):
you're noticing people are mostactivated by right now or most
curious about right now?
Beautiful.
Yeah.
I want to hang with that, butI'm going to do the same thing.
There's so many interestingthings that I can't just leave.
And this will lead us into someof these questions.
One of the things that I justlove that you just talked about

(36:50):
was the way in which we're likea body, right?
So I think what's interesting isIt's difficult for one part of
the body to recognize what'sgoing on with the whole, if we
were to take, for example, aPolaroid photo, I know some
people might still remember whatthose are or just some photo
that stops time.

(37:11):
That's frozen, right?
So it doesn't tell us.
Where the system has been, itdoesn't tell us where the system
is going.
And so sometimes when we're inthat moment, it's hard to see
that there's a larger systemthat we're interacting in
because everywhere we look, it'sfeels frozen.
But if we take a series ofphotos over time, we can start

(37:32):
to notice, Oh, look, there's achange here.
There's a change here.
There's a change here.
Especially if we.
Photograph a human through itsevolutionary cycle, right from a
baby, who thinks a baby looksthe same as an 85 or 90 year old
person, right?
The body has changed.
Everything has changed.
And in fact, if we put a pictureof the baby up and a picture of

(37:54):
the 90 year old, and we justshowed those two pictures,
people would not understandthere was a relationship be
like, Oh, somebody has a baby,right?
There's a baby there.
There's an old guy there.
So I think if we start to playwith this in the sense of body
just in a way that we're allinterconnected.
And we think about this in asense that often we can't see in

(38:15):
the moment what's actually goingon.
If we're lucky, and this is partof where my excitement gets,
because what I like to study isthe patterns.
You talked about fractals.
Some folks listening on the callmay not know what a fractal is,
but a fractal is a pattern foundin nature that repeats
perfectly.
Like you'll find them allthrough nature in leaves, in
cell structure.

(38:35):
They're repeated patterns thatjust repeat themselves over and
over.
Now they can change a littlebit, but we're looking for those
patterns, those fractals thatare built into our society.
One of the things that'sinteresting when you start to
talk about the body and thepeople who are starting to see
something is off.
There's two places I want us tonotice here.

(38:56):
One is At some level, thosefolks who, I don't want to say
heal trauma, I think we releasetrauma.
Heal is a weird word.
If we watch animals in the wildwe'll notice, and Peter Levine
is really the kind of the, oneof the preeminent folks on this,
but there's many amazing traumatherapists, but he's the one
that noticed that when an animalplays dead, because certain prey

(39:21):
likes to eat things that arerunning and living.
It's a strategy for survival.
Fall over, play dead.
When an animal has done that's atrauma.
Now we can define human trauma alittle differently'cause it
actually has, is a little morecomplex, but it's a trauma.
And you watch the animal get up,the animal shakes off.
And it goes about its life.
And an animal in the wild cannotstay traumatized very long

(39:44):
without becoming somebody'slunch.
If it stays frozen.
It's in trouble.
So I want us to realize thattrauma isn't something that, we,
yes, we heal from it but we movethrough it, we release it we
reinterpret it.
What's interesting is those ofus who managed to release or
shift our relationships totrauma, what essentially we're

(40:05):
doing is we're re regulating ournervous system.
So we're creating an opportunityfor our nervous system not to
get triggered over and overagain by small things make it
harder to get triggered.
We make it easier when we failor when things get tough to keep
going for those of us like youwho have said this isn't quite
working in the system.

(40:25):
I'm going to pull back.
I'm going to change some things.
You've begun to release some ofthe old Cultural delusions or
hallucinations or whatever wordwe want to use.
I'm not trying to be mean tothese agreements we have.
I'm just trying to point outthat they're just agreements
that are based in fantasy.
Like we get together and we say,okay, we're all going to believe
this.

(40:45):
We could all believe all kindsof things together that aren't
true.
So we become like the whiteblood cells in the body.
So those of us who have steppedback and said, it's not about
more, it's about better, right?
We start to be the originaldisruptors like that had nothing

(41:07):
to do with technology.
We have beautiful religioussystems through our whole human
history of people who weredisruptors.
The system is wrong, weird,corrupt, needs to change.
My favorite story of a disruptorhas nothing to do with
computers.
It was about a little child whowatched the emperor, who'd been

(41:29):
convinced that he was wearing afabulous outfit by some tailors.
And many of us know this story,we learned it as children, it's
in different cultures.
And so the emperor who's beensold a hallucination, he's been
sold a lie.
Look at this beautiful.
garment that you're wearing.

(41:49):
Let's take you around and paradeyou through the streets, right?
And one little child says, theemperor's naked, right?
Old guard disruptor, right?
Doesn't require any technologyat all.
Yeah.
Often disruption is simplysomeone stating the truth in a
way that someone else can hearit.

(42:11):
Now technology is disrupting usin some regard because it's
Pushing the truth in our facevery quickly.
Some of it is disrupting usbecause it's upsetting our
comfort the way we've donethings in the past.
But the real disruption is.
When it's spoken, and all of asudden that collective agreement

(42:33):
gets broken, and to me that'sactually where we are right now.
We've had a lot of truth spoken.
We don't have a collectiveagreement right now about how we
live, who we are, what ourpurpose is.
And this is something that,these are not things that I'm
just Kind of hallucinating in myhouse.
These are things that have beenstudied by sociologists for
years and years.
It's a massive shift in culturedepending on where you look.

(42:56):
Historically, it maybe starts asearly as 1905 with the beginning
of some of the quantum thinkingthat occurred.
We look at other markers likethe nuclear bomb dropping
changed the way we understandthe world.
There's all these moments thatsomething changes.
So all of this, to me, are waysin which we're inviting a

(43:20):
change, we're disrupting, andthere's a possibility for
something new to happen.
So the disruption, funny, I wastalking to a friend in Portugal
a while ago, we were over havinglunch, and she said, oh, I hate
that word.
I was like, yeah, disruptioneven as a word is disruptive,
but it's become cliche.
Everything's a disruption.
It's a disruption to this.

(43:41):
It's a disruption to that.
True disruption is actually ifwe look at a stagnant pond and
we throw a rock in it.
Talking a lot about ponds today.
But when you have a stagnantbody of water where there's no
movement, it breeds disease.
Yeah.
So when we get movement in,because that old thinking, that
old story that actually doesn'texist anymore, all of a sudden

(44:07):
we get movement happening.
The disruption creates thepossibility of new life to
emerge for things to get the mudand the muck to get cleared out
for all of the.
Things like mosquitoes that arecreating malaria, all of these
things that breed in spaceswhere truth is hidden, and there

(44:28):
is no disruption, all of asudden get a possibility of some
sort of movement, and this issuper uncomfortable, because.
The reality is we're allcomplicit, right?
I'm amazed, and I'm going to getmyself in trouble again, but
this is just important for me tosay.
I'm amazed at gun violence inthe U.
S.
and in the schools.

(44:48):
I'm, because any other countryin the world would not accept
this collective hallucinationthat there's nothing we can do.
That's the agreement we'vebought into.
We've said, our politicians arein the pockets of lobbyists, we
can't move these laws.
And the dumbest thing ever isthat these schools, we could

(45:11):
just, as parents, say, ourchildren are not going to be
allowed to go to schools as longas they're dangerous places.
I would not let a child go intoa crack house, for example.
I wouldn't say, just playanywhere you want.
Here, go play in a constructionsite.
How many people say to theirkid, go play in a construction
site.
How many people say to theirkid, go play in a toxic waste

(45:34):
dump.
If we define schools as actuallymore dangerous for those
children, which would beactually saying, look, we were
naming the truth, shootingdeaths are one of the top causes
of deaths and children in the US.
And it's insane that would be athing.
It used to be car car accidents.
Now shootings are number one.

(45:54):
We have shootings all the timehere.
All we would have to do todisrupt the system is first
believe that we'd have to breakthe lie.
We'd have to disrupt thedelusion that parents have no
power.
That people don't have kids,don't have any power.
And we'd simply have to haveparents say, I'm going to keep
my kids home from school.
It's a mass walkout, right?

(46:16):
And those of us who don't havechildren, I don't have children,
I would be happy to helphomeschool.
I would literally say I'm, Ihave a PhD.
I know a lot of friends withPhDs.
We could teach these classes.
We could give money to supporthomeschooling because this is so
important.
Easy place to disrupt a systemjust by realizing that we've

(46:37):
been sold a lie.
Or told a lie.
We've bought into a collectivehallucination.
I think that's a simple exampleof a problem that actually would
take almost no effort to solve.
Because as soon as nobody goesto the schools, something that's
going to change.
We use this strategy, I'm alittle older than you, but we
use this strategy to endapartheid in South Africa.
We stopped buying from companiesthat were supporting apartheid

(47:00):
because it was dangerous andviolent and horrible.
It's not just about collectivebuying power, but the idea is
that we withdraw our support.
We withdraw the energy.
We stop their power.
So that's a lot, I know, to talkabout disruption, but I think
disruption is one of thosequestions is what does it mean
to truly disrupt?
So when you ask what are thequestions that, that I'm asking,

(47:22):
that I'm talking to peopleabout, one of them is constantly
around disruption.
Because disruption has become amarketing term.
This is going to disrupt theindustry.
Okay, is it going to changeanybody's life?
Maybe.
AI is clearly changing people'slives.
I'm excited about thepossibilities of AI.
I'm also aware of its dangersand the dangers I'm mostly aware

(47:42):
of are because humans createdit.
But if we start to actually askquestions about what is true
disruption, what is culturaldisruption, what periods in
history have we seen realdisruption where things change
at a macro level, then we'llstart to get into a really
interesting conversation.
I'm also seeing people askquestions about meaning.

(48:02):
We're in this really interestingtime in human history where, if
we read Homo Deus is his book.
My brain is leaving his namesomewhere out.
But one of the beautiful thingsabout this book, Homo Deus, and
the professor who wrote thebook, and maybe you'll find it
and put it underneath me orsomething, is he identified the
fact that we have overcome mostof the obstacles that humans

(48:25):
have faced for most of humanhistory.
We have the capacity to produceenough food for everyone.
Hunger does not need to be anissue, and we have some
distribution issues and somejustice issues, but production
is not an issue.
We have enough energy foreverybody, right?
We have ways to connect.
We have some of the best healthcare we've ever had.

(48:47):
Again, distribution of justiceare issues, but we've moved into
this place where, for mostpeople, we live a relatively
comfortable life.
And that's been a domesticatedlife as Seth Godman calls it.
I think it's very smart.
He likes to talk about raisingfree range children, which I
just think is so beautiful.

(49:08):
We've become domesticated.
We're comfortable in our cages.
Our cages are not just the homeswe live in, but also the
thoughts we think and the wayswe relate to the world.
And so there's this beautifulplace to play in.
Where do we go from here?
What is the meaning that we havewhen we're comfortable?
Because comfort can only staycomfortable for so long, right?

(49:31):
And so people are actuallygetting bored in this, in
comfort, something wrong.
You can feel it.
You're disconnected from things.
And so I'm watching lots ofconversation about what does it
mean to be human?
What does it mean to havemeaning?
How do we connect with eachother?
When we have to have loneliness,SARS, which they're now is in

(49:51):
London or actually England as awhole.
Loneliness are, the SurgeonGeneral in the U.
S.
has started talking aboutloneliness as a health crisis.
I read a recent study that saidone in five Americans don't feel
like they have one friend theycan turn to in a crisis.
These are heartbreaking thingsto hear.

(50:11):
These are the questions I'mhearing.
I know they're bigger.
They're not necessarily thequestions that leaders are
asking in business.
And I think if they're notasking these questions, it is a
massive mistake.
It's a mistake because they'renot listening to their
employees.
They're not listening tothemselves.
I spend my days with high levelleaders who are telling me about
how bored they are with life,how overwhelmed, how frustrated,

(50:36):
how life doesn't feel like it'smeaningful, and they're just
going through the motions.
So they're doing a disservice tothemselves.
And they're doing a disserviceto the larger culture that's
wanting to ask bigger questions,and not simply be told to have
another glass of wine, or someCBD, and that will make
everything okay.
Or whatever it happens to be tonumb us just a little bit more.

(50:57):
Exactly.
Yeah.
If we stay numb and if we don'task the questions, then we don't
call out that disruptive truth,like you're saying, or call out
the lie or the delusion.
And I'm reminded of what we weresaying earlier as well, where
these things seem to happen atfractal levels where, you can

(51:18):
call out the delusion in theculture that you're in
Potentially by asking a reallybold question, but you can also
honor that truth withinyourself.
Like you just said at the endthere, and that disruption in
self disruption in the prison ofour own thoughts or the box that
we're living in.
Sometimes these questions can besuch breakthrough.

(51:40):
moments when we start toquestion our reality or the
norm.
I'm really appreciating thatyou've given us a couple steps
in a way here where it's stepone what is actually true?
Notice the delusion, say whatthe truth is, whether that's
within yourself or within whatyou're observing.
And we can do this collectivesense making together to, to

(52:02):
find those patterns.
And then maybe even opting out,right?
Like taking a step back or doingsomething different to disrupt
at the cultural level or thenervous system level, even
because I know that you're sosteeped in the world of
neuroscience and body wisdom aswell.
So this analogy that you usedhas been so helpful of the body

(52:26):
and in the podcast and withinthis audience, we talk a lot
about.
the collective nervous system aswell.
If we can honor that truth, stepback, regulate ourselves, we get
to regulate or co regulate thecollective nervous system.
And now we're in a much morereceptive open state to even be
able to ask the questions thatfundamentally take us into

(52:50):
bigger and bigger breakthroughsand take us towards pathways of
answers that are more rooted in.
Things like togetherness, right?
As we heal the separation woundthat we've been in, like some of
the answers that we might findfrom the questions that you're
hearing most often, as I imaginewhat those answers to be, I
actually imagine that, oh, wow,that seems like a very different

(53:13):
cultural fabric than what we'rein right now.
Those are very differentconditions.
That we might arrive to shouldwe start to collectively ask
these questions.
So yes, I just am appreciatingthis conversation so much and
what you've pointed us to andthe big bold questions around
disruption and how can we befacing this crisis of meaning,

(53:37):
this existential crisis ofmeaning that so many leaders are
facing right now where they area bit bored with the comfort.
So Scott, you've just you'vetaken us on such a amazing
journey today, and I know thatone other space that you're
really steeped in and fascinatedby right now is AI.
And so I did actually want totake us in a slightly different

(53:57):
direction as maybe our finalquestion today.
To just look at that specifictype of disruption and
acceleration and at least fromwhat you've seen, how might
leaders be, how should they bethinking about this?
How can they be preparing tothought partner with a
technology like this to maybesupport their longer term

(54:21):
strategy or their long termperspective that they might
have?
how does AI actually make usbetter leaders?
in your opinion?
Beautiful question.
So one of the things that Ialways want to start with is ask
more questions.
So to the beginning of even ourconversation on AI is first of
all, to ask more questions, butalso ask better questions.

(54:44):
Sometimes we're in this tinylittle space, which is what I'm
watching with AI right now.
In the corporate sector.
It's some level, not entirely.
I'm fascinated and excited abouta lot of what I'm seeing.
So at a small level, thequestion seems to be, how do we
make more money?
How do we let go of more people?

(55:04):
Which is actually a legitimatequestion right now because
there's a work shortage, sotrying to figure out like if
people don't want to do jobs,part of why they don't want to
do jobs is because they'rerepetitive tasks that give them
no meaning.
I'm wanting people to you.
Go beyond the question again ofsimply how do we use this tool
to make more money and to beginto open the door to ask how do

(55:27):
we use this so that we can solveglobal human problems and
environmental problems.
And within that, let's createEco sustainable businesses that
actually are aligned with theplanet.
So when I think about AI, theplaces I get the most excited
aren't how we can make moremoney.
Now I will say very clearly Iuse AI daily.

(55:50):
I love the tools.
I'm a huge fan and I use it tomake my life easier.
So I think for humans that wantto like individual humans to
say, how can I use these toolsto have a more elegant life, to
live more easily, to not bedoing repetitive tasks, like
emails is exhausting.
Emailing is exhausting for me.
It's just so much data.
So I have an AI program thathelps me filter it, that lets

(56:12):
only certain emails in atcertain times of day that groups
it.
So I can delete 40 emailstogether.
So there's a simple place oflike, how do we help?
Enhance the lives of humans.
But this bigger question thenbecomes, how do we use this to
solve collective globalproblems?
And for businesses, I think whoare really on the front of the
cutting edge, this is the placethey'll be working because

(56:34):
they're going to solve realproblems that people want to
solve.
So I've been looking at, just togive you a simple example
medicine.
Medicine in AI is one of themost fabulous opportunities that
could exist for so many reasons,everything from personalized
medicine, so that instead ofhaving a kind of one size fits

(56:55):
all approach to things like whatdo we eat, how do we exercise,
how much body fat should wehave.
We can actually start tounderstand our individual
bodies, but we can also start totake an iPhone and this has been
one of the promises of AI for awhile into a village that
doesn't have a doctor and tohelp diagnose illness using like

(57:18):
a little piece.
One of the fascinating thingsthat came out this week is a
study that showed that AI wasable to diagnose.
breast cancer 20% moreaccurately than simply a
technician.
And part of that is, techniciansget tired.
We're human, right?
We miss things.
So if we partner with it, wehave the capacity to say, how do

(57:39):
we help human lives?
So in my mind, that's thebeginning.
How do we look at this as a toolfor the common good so that we
can build something worthy ofourselves?
And honestly, to me the bigproblem with business, and I
can't understand how anybodywho's in business does not sit
with this, is so many people arespending their lives on

(58:02):
something that doesn't matter atall.
So one of the things I havewritten on my little wall of
reminders is live each moment asif it matters, right?
If I spend my life doingsomething that's completely
unimportant.
Chasing paper, which is reallywhat just chasing money is

(58:24):
chasing paper.
If that's my only objective, howmuch paper can I get?
And now we don't even use paper,right?
How many imaginary numbers cansit on an imaginary, screen on
some computer, it's a verysmall.
Metric for your life, right?
So I would think as a leader,and this is one of the places

(58:46):
that we can have a profoundimpact is to wake up and say,
what would it look like for mylife to mean something?
What would it look like for meto go to a company that I
believe in?
What would it look like for, ifI'm working for fossil fuels,
for example, fossil fuelcompany, and I'm able to say,
wow, this is contributing to thedestruction of the planet.

(59:09):
And I look and I say, I havekids or grandkids or people I
care about.
I don't want to leave them witha planet with air that's
unbreathable, with ecosystemsthat are destroyed.
What could I do that would leavea legacy that would actually be
worthy of my life energy?
Because if all you think you'rehere to do is be comfortable,

(59:30):
that's a sad life.
It's a really small life andwhat I know about the leaders
that I'm most excited about isthat they're big dreamers,
they're visionaries, and if theybreathe into their bodies for
just a minute, and this is thetrick like I got to get out of
just my head for just a minute.
If I breathe into my body, and Isay what is really important to

(59:53):
me.
I almost never have a leadertell me it's just money.
Money is usually a scorecard forthem, right?
It might help them figure outwhat the impact they're having
is, it might help them feelsecure, it might help them have
a sense of freedom, right?
Identify that, figure out how toget it, but get it doing

(01:00:13):
something that gives your lifemeaning.
That at the end of the day, youare able to say, that meant
something.
I believe it was Steve Jobs whohad written on his Mirror, if
this was my last day to live,would I be happy with how I
spent my time?
If we all lived in that space,if we all realized that there's

(01:00:37):
no waiting period on life, thattoday is the day you get, and
all of us have had friends whodie, we've lost people.
COVID was a great example ofthat.
This is not just a metaphor.
This may be the day you have.
And to realize the fragility oflife and also the immense value
of it.

(01:00:57):
That there's something beautifulyou can do in this moment that's
not just putting yourself in acomfortable cage.
That's not just feathering yournest.
That's doing something thatleaves a legacy beyond yourself.
That leaves something for thepeople who will be here.
So to me, those are thequestions that I hope leaders
are asking, not just for AI,because AI is just one piece of

(01:01:20):
a complex system of technologythat's coming into place that
includes nanotechnology,blockchain.
We have all of thesetechnologies that likely, if
we're listening to someone likePeter Diamandis, who started the
XPRIZE, we're going to haveabout 100 years of change in the
next 10.
It's not just going to be AI.
AI is one of the corecomponents, but it's only one.

(01:01:43):
It's the one that people canunderstand the most easily.
So it's the one we're graspingonto.
As all of those changes happen,if we're able to ask ourselves,
Did I matter?
Am I doing something that'sworthy of my life energy?
I think...
People have a very differentexperience of their lives and
their leadership.

(01:02:03):
Scott, I cannot think of abetter message to leave our
listeners with than that, of thepower of questions, of legacy.
Thank you so much for sharingall of these perspectives and
the questions.
I'm really taking that with metoday, of the power of
meaningful questions to createmeaningful lives.
Thank you so much for beinghere.

(01:02:24):
If listeners want to.
learn more about you or workwith you.
How can they find you and get intouch?
Super simple.
Just go to my website, www.
scottwmills.
com.
You can find ways to connectwith me.
You can see what classes I'moffering or whatever I happen to
be up to in a minute.
It's always changing.
You can imagine.

(01:02:46):
Fascinating.
I just want to appreciate you.
The way that you engage thesequestions is so profound, and I
think that you're doing a hugeservice to the leadership world
by bringing people in and havingdeep conversations because we're
past a soundbite culture, right?
We need depth.
We need connection.

(01:03:06):
And we need to think newquestions and imagine new
worlds.
And I think you're creatingspace for people to do that.
So I so appreciate you and allthe work you're doing.
Thank you, Nicole.
Thank you so much, Scott.
That gives me chills.
It just means the world.
Thanks listeners for tuning infor another week of living
leaders.
And we'll be back with you nextweek for more in depth
conversations like this.

(01:03:27):
Thanks again, Scott.

All Episodes

Disruption in the New Human Renaissance | Dr. Scott W Mills | Ep. 24

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Disruption in the New Human Renaissance | Dr. Scott W Mills | Ep. 24