January 24, 2023 • 43 mins
What happens when we've built everything we thought we wanted, but still aren't happy? We have the successful career, the house, the family... but we're still missing something... our true selves.
When we stay in the addiction cycles of "busyness" and perfection, we don't have time or space to reflect on what truly makes us happy and fulfilled. We continue in the momentum of the life we've created, doing what we think we "should" do.
Dmitria's story invites us into a "pattern interrupt." She began to question the track she was on, and by using powerful but simple tools like breath, self-care, and rest, she was able to create enough space and stillness to truly see herself and discover where self-worth actually comes from.
You can learn more about Dmitria and how she supports others through her work at: https://www.findingluminance.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
The way we've been doing workand leadership is deeply broken.
Whether you're healing fromburnout or just looking for a
better way to run your company,you're in the right place. What
is the future of work even looklike? That is a question we get
to answer together. Afterworking with 1000s of executives
and entrepreneurs around theworld. I know that the deepest
leadership issues are deeplyhuman. We've got to heal
(00:32):
ourselves if we want to heal theworld. Welcome to the new self
Podcast where each week I'llhelp you explore topics that
will level up your leadershipand your life. I'm your host,
Nicole Belisle. I'm a leadershipexpert and Reiki master, and I
believe the secret to moreconscious work and leadership is
self healing, grab a seat andget cozy because we're about to
(00:53):
go on a journey. We are joinedtoday by the wonderfully wise
and relatable Demetria birbee.
To meet Tria is someone who putin the hard work to climb the
ladder, build the dream house,start the beautiful family, she
had it all. And when she lookedaround, realized, wow, I'm still
(01:16):
not happy. Where does this comefrom? There's something in me,
that is perhaps preventing myhappiness. We're going to
investigate the intricacies ofwhat happens when our self
identity and self worth getswrapped up in work or external
materiality. And throughDemetrius story, we're going to
(01:37):
look at how to begin to makespace for our truer selves to
come through, through simple yetprofound practices like
breathing, resting, taking thetime and space to ask ourselves
questions that no one else isasking. And then finding the
practices that work for you tocreate enough self care and self
(01:58):
love for you to keep going andkeep designing a life that is
true for you, rather than thelife you think you should have.
This episode is an invitation toreflect on what truly makes you
happy, and what practices allowfor the creation of space and
true self to come through.
(02:20):
Without further ado, let us divein with Dimitri birbee. To meet
you, welcome to the podcast. I'mso excited to dive into our
conversation today, there's somuch incredible ground that I
know will cover.
Thank you so much for having me,I'm so excited for this.
Me too. Just in our little ourlittle chat before before
(02:43):
recording, I can already tellthat the audience is going to
resonate so much with yourstory. So I'd love to start
there. And have you just walk usthrough what what was your
career path? What what wassuccess, like for you? And what
were some of those lessons alongthe way?
(03:04):
Yeah, I actually went to school.
As a computer engineer, Ithought, you know, it was the
90s. And computers would be agreat thing for me to get into.
And so I took this path downengineering, and then got really
deep into network security,which is like a pretty niche and
(03:24):
male dominated industry. Um, atleast it was in the 90s, like
mid to late 90s. And, and then Igot out of school, and I went to
find a job. And I wasinterviewing with these
companies. And I just realizedlike, oh my gosh, I can't I
can't do this like, like, theseenvironments are so stifling. So
(03:45):
at that young age, I just knew,like, I maybe made a mistake in
my education. And I found myselfworking for a digital marketing
agency. And you know, like theearly 2000s digital marketing
was a big deal and websites andhaving that engineering
(04:05):
background, I got into data andanalytics, right at like the
beginning of when that industrywas taking off. And so I spent
my early years really learningthat space and climbing the
ladder and, and I was reallygood at it. I found that, you
know, I was excelling with myclients. I was excelling in my
(04:30):
job titles and how much money Iwas making. And the organization
that I was with was growingpretty rapidly. So I had a lot
of opportunity and I took all ofit. You didn't really have
anything else going on in mylife. And so I could just pour
sort of like all of my beinginto my job. And I share that
part of the story because Ireally didn't have anything else
(04:55):
going on outside other than likehanging out with friends and
going to bars and, you know,like the normal stuff you do in
your early 20s. But, um, youknow, I really poured all of
myself into my job and, and thenover time, I, you know, found my
husband and we started ourfamily and I had all of these
other things that I wanted in mylife, but still career was at
(05:19):
the core of it. And, and as Iclimbed the ladder, I realized,
at some point that there wasmaybe something more that I was
missing. Because I, I was sortof at the top of the game, I
(05:40):
realized that the next job thatI would want, or the next job
that was in line, for me was ajob that I didn't want. And that
was the moment of like, wait aminute, what else is there I
like, you know, the motivationto work was always to get the
next job to like, master what Iwas doing, be really good at it,
(06:00):
and then get the next job. Andwhen you get to the point where
I was like, Okay, the next jobis something that I don't want,
like, I just didn't, I wasn'tprepared for that moment. I
wasn't, I didn't know that thatcould come for anybody. I just
thought like, no, no, no, youjust until you're at the very
top, you just keep going. And,and so that that moment in life
(06:25):
sort of happened at the sametime as some personal like, I
don't know, I think I was, I wasreally realizing that I was
unhappy at the core of it. And Ididn't know that about myself at
that time. And so coming toterms with Oh, my gosh, I can't
(06:45):
distract myself by workingtowards this next title. And I'm
starting to realize that I'mactually not happy in my life
generally, was a really, reallyhard realization to face. And so
it set me on this path in areally blessed way of me trying
(07:08):
to figure out what would make mehappy. And so I changed jobs. I
changed companies after 17years. And I thought, like, oh,
a new job, a new environmentwill fix all of this for me. And
I laugh because, of course itdoesn't, when you're not happy,
and you don't know yourselfchanging your job and stocked up
(07:30):
fix it. And so I switched jobsand, and was doing really well
there, but also just continuedto realize how unhappy I was.
And so had to eventually take alook at, you know, it's not this
external thing. It's not thatexternal thing. And I realized
(07:51):
it was me that I didn't, I wasunhappy with myself. And that I
would have to take some time toan effort to figure out who I
was, and what in the world wouldmake me happy in this life.
Wow, wow. I appreciate so muchabout your story, especially the
(08:18):
the journey of getting to thetop look, right, like looking
around and be like, Okay,there's there is this next step.
But I don't actually want that.
I think people are becoming morecomfortable with expressing that
or letting that be true. But ithasn't, it hasn't been around
very long this concept of wow, Ican actually say no, to the
(08:39):
hustle or to the ladder. And I'mso curious to dig in a little
bit deeper into what unhappinessactually looked like for you on
maybe an emotional level andembodied level. You mentioned
that you you had to go inward tofind what that was. But what
were what were some of thesymptoms or the clues that were
(09:02):
telling you that you weren'thappy?
Yeah, it's a great question. I,for me, unhappiness came about
that I was, well, when I wasexhausted all the time. I just
could not. And I was workinglike crazy hours. And we had
(09:24):
young children. And you know, itwas that time in life where
you're tired. But I wasexhausted. And in looking back
at that time in my life, I thinkI was probably a little bit
depressed or I was depressed.
And that was like added to thisfeeling of exhaustion that I
had. But it really came to this,like this beautiful moment slash
(09:44):
story where my husband came tome and he was like, Hey, let's
take the kids and go do thissuper fun thing. And you know,
like I I think I responded. AndI was like, that sounds like so
much work. Right? Like, like theidea of like packing the kids up
(10:06):
and like going and you know,doing something fun with them
felt like so much work. And hewas like, Well, why don't you
want to do it? And I was like, Idon't know, it just doesn't
like, it's not what I want todo. It doesn't sound fun for me.
And then his next question waslike, Okay, well, what if we do
this, you know, like, let's do adifferent activity. And my
(10:27):
response was the same toeverything that he said. And it
wasn't like, in that moment, itwas the same it was, but like,
this had been an ongoingconversation for like, probably
months or years, to be honest.
And it but whatever. In thatmoment, he paused and in like,
the most loving way, he askedme, he said, like, what does
(10:50):
make you happy? Like, what doyou want to do in this moment?
That would, that would make youhappy that would bring you joy?
And I looked at him, and I waslike, I don't know. Like, I
actually had lost sight of what,what would be enjoyable for me
to go do with the family? Orwhat would it be enjoyable for
(11:12):
them to go and like, Give mespace like that didn't feel like
it was going to be enjoyable,either. And so it was this
moment of him asking me, whatmakes you happy? What do you
like to do? And me realizingthat I had no idea that you
know, all of this, like the nicehouse and the nice car and like
(11:36):
the perfect family, and youknow, the loving husband and
whatever that we had, like,those things weren't making me
happy. And there was somethingthat I had to go back and
discover about myself tounderstand where I had lost my
way. And so it was that lack ofbeing able to access joy in
(12:03):
really like any environment thatmade me realize that there was
something that I was generallyunhappy, not just like, in a
moment.
I really appreciate thevulnerability there as as
someone who also was depressedat some juncture in my career
(12:24):
and didn't know it, I didn't, Iremember having the realization,
at one point I was I was the CEOof this company, and similar had
had worked my way up, I was soproud to be there. But so burnt
out, and everything wasbreaking, including me. And I
remember a moment where I, Isort of just let myself collapse
(12:47):
on the floor and cry for asecond. And I, I remember
thinking for the first time,like, wow, I have mental health.
And I don't think it's goodright now. And maybe that's part
of what's happening. And justlike having that not have even
been part of the equation, Iknew my physical body was
exhausted, I knew I wasprocessing a ton of emotion and
(13:10):
couldn't keep up with that. Butit was the first time I
realized, wow, I you know, Imight be depressed here. And so
your naming of what that feltlike, where you're looking
around all these things thatlike should or could bring joy.
And yet, because they sitoutside of us, or whatever,
because of our connection orability to relate to it, it from
(13:33):
a place of full vitality withinourselves. It's like to me, it
almost felt like indifference. Iwas like, Yeah, nothing, nothing
will make me happy, because Ijust am not happy as as a
person, as you know, a being ina body. So I'm appreciating the
vulnerability in in your storythere. And I'm curious, I'm
(13:58):
curious what you did next. Soyou, you know, you had this
realization that you needed togo inward? And I'm hearing also
the gift of the pause, like thegift of the the question that
your husband posed, because Ithink sometimes that can kind of
snap us out of our momentum orout of our norm, if you will. So
(14:21):
this this pause happens, a giftof a question to start
reflecting. What do you do next?
I am well, I will say in themoment, I didn't realize I was
going inward. It's only nowyears later, where I was like,
oh, that's what I was doing. Iwas turning from this external
(14:42):
facing existence, right that Ihad been in since I was a child
of you know, earn more money,buy more things that will make
you happy, like accumulate,accumulate, accumulate and like
attach to yourself to make youhappy, or to know who you are.
It's only now when I The factthat I was like, Oh, that was
the moment that I was like, oh,none of this is working, I have
(15:06):
to search for something else.
And in that moment, I didn'tknow I was like turning inwards,
and Gotcha. And so I think it'sjust helpful sometimes to say,
like, you don't necessarilylike, know what you're doing, as
you're fumbling through thisprocess, like, you kind of take
that next step that's in frontof you. And then the steps, you
(15:26):
know, they show up along theway, as Rumi, Jose, and um, and
then all of a sudden, you're inthis very different spot. But I
love your reference of thepause, because it was so
pivotal, that moment where heasked that question, and instead
of me, well, I mean, I don'tfully remember I probably yelled
(15:46):
at him in the moment was like,totally irrational. But, but
inside, in my light comes inplace, I took that pause, and
really took it in of like, oh,yeah, let me figure this out.
And the first thing I did was Istarted to read some books. And
when I realized that I was burntout, I realized that I was sort
of a workaholic and addicted tobeing to filling up all of our
(16:14):
calendars, not just my calendar,right? Like, if we kept busy, if
I was busy, then I didn't haveto think about anything, I
didn't have to feel anything Icould be numb to, like any of my
emotions, including happiness.
And, and so I started readingsome books that were like,
(16:34):
really accessible to mymasculine on the go, personality
at that time. And they werethings like, how to say no, in
your life, like how to learninghow to rest, asking the question
about who you are. How do youidentify yourself, if you strip
(16:56):
away your job title, and thetitle of wife, mother, sister,
you know, daughter? Who am I?
And and I couldn't answer thatquestion. At all. I didn't know
outside of my job title. Andlike all of the things that I
did, I didn't have anyconnection to being anything
(17:17):
else. And so I reallycontemplated that question I
still do today, ask who I am.
And it's a really big part of mypractice of remembering that I
am something that I feelconnected to, that's outside of
(17:41):
how anybody else defines me. Andso it's that that is what I when
I think about that selfdiscovery journey, and really
getting to know who you are,it's like, what is that spark
inside of you, that you canconnect with? And feel like,
Yes, this is who I am. And itand then that expresses in some
(18:02):
way out, that can be defined,but isn't defining me from
outside in.
I love that distinction, thatYeah, that's really, really
helpful of how you're of howyou're framing that. And I, I
also appreciate you highlightingthat when you're going through
it, we don't always know wherewe are in the process, or, or
(18:26):
you know, are even able to seethe full spectrum of what's
happening to us until we havethat hindsight. And I'm struck
by what you said about learninghow to rest. And that the like
the impulse was to go to go getthe books to go look outside of
(18:48):
ourselves, maybe still in thatpattern of leaning on the habits
that we maybe already knew. Andand that still was a pathway
that was maybe the the nextlogical move, to even be able to
start looking inward. But I'mstruck by the the learning to
rest and how, in a way thatalmost feels like the opposite
(19:12):
energy or the opposite medicine,to maybe combat some of that,
that control or thatperfectionism, even that
busyness because I know, I'msomeone who absolutely has those
perfectionist and controlwounds. And I know before we
hopped on, we were talking abouta little bit of that like early
(19:34):
childhood trauma as well, andhow that can impact these
patterns. So I guess talk to meabout about those patterns and
what it was like to start toboth notice them but also like
give yourself the dose of theopposite, the opposite energy
and how you land into that.
Yeah,I have to just pause though and
(19:57):
say your wording there ofperfectionist wounding is
profound, right? We, as asociety talk about like
perfectionism and drive andhustle and all of those things
as, as positives. And I feellike we've shifted to start to
(20:19):
see that they are not alwayspositive. But they do come from
a deep place of wounding. And Ithink that's so critical for
people to really understand thatperfectionism. In, in almost any
scenario, there's not there'snot a lot of positive there. It
does come from a place of like,deep hurt. So I just was like,
(20:43):
Oh, you said that? And I waslike, Oh, that I love that. So
thank you.
Of course, yeah, it's a big one.
It isit is. And when you have had
childhood trauma, which, ifyou're a perfectionist, you have
really had some reason that yournervous system has adapted and
(21:06):
taught you that you need to beperfect in order to be safe,
right? Like, there is some placein your childhood development
that you learned that in orderto be safe, or be valued, that
you needed to, like, upholdthis, you know, standard that is
necessarily real. But the ideaof learning how to rest, I think
(21:32):
was, was such a foreign conceptto me. And I think if you would
have said to me in that moment,like, Hey, I think you need to
rest, which I'm sure my husbandsaid plenty of times, to me, my
response would be just like,incredulous, like, why would I
(21:54):
possibly rest, like I sleep atnight, I don't have time to
rest, I'm too busy. I like if Irest, and I'm not going to get
all this stuff done that iscritical to my survival. And
like now, in retrospect, lookingback, when you're that busy,
when you're a workaholic, thatdrive is actually your survival
(22:14):
mechanism, you believe in orderto sustain your life that you
need to operate on full blast,24 hours a day that there is no
room to rest, because rest isequated with danger. And if you
think about our, our likeevolution, right? If we're
(22:39):
resting, it means that we're notgetting food, it means that we
are susceptible to, you know,some giant creature coming in
eating us or a lion, you know,starting to chase us and, and
kill us like, those are veryvulnerable times. And so
actually allowing our bodies andteaching ourselves that we're
(23:00):
safe, that the paradigm that wehave, like taught ourselves for
30 or 40 years is not is nolonger true. It's really
challenging. And, for me,learning to rest was was really
about finding that safety in mylife, not my external safety. I
(23:23):
mean, I've mentioned like, Ilive in a nice house, and I, you
know, I live in a safe part ofthe world, I'm very lucky in
that way. I live in a safe homeenvironment, like there's
really, very few places thatthere's like real danger in my
life. But my inner system, theway that it was wired, really
(23:43):
believed that at any moment, mywhole life might fall apart. And
you know, there would besomething so dangerous that I
needed to stay in this hyperactive hyper aware mode. And so
it's the unpacking of that, thattook so much work over the years
(24:04):
to really get to a place where Ican, on a daily basis, relax and
operate from that place of restand stillness, and then and then
have moments where I'm reallyactive instead of being totally
active all the time and havingmoments of rest.
Right, right. And what I what Ihear in what you're saying is, I
(24:29):
guess because of the stillnessand be and thanks to the
spaciousness that that creates,it's the difference that I feel
in my body, as you say that isthat like the difference between
staying in the reactivity and inthe addiction to the busyness
versus sitting in enoughstillness or enough spaciousness
to consciously choose andintentionally choose where am I
(24:53):
going to put my my preciouslifeforce and where am I going
to choose to, to act rather orthen sort of being in that
dance. And I appreciate theframe on workaholism and a core
patterns that sits at the centerof that being addiction, right?
Because I think for a lot of uswho have worked our way up in
(25:17):
the business space, or leadcompanies or whatever it might
be, we don't necessarily thinkof workaholism as an addiction,
it's, it feels safer to stay inthat it feels safer to, to wear
the mask to be perceived in acertain way by others. Like
there's, there's such aprotective part of us, that
(25:42):
shows up that I think, in someways is well intentioned. It's
like protecting us fromrejection or protecting us from
having to get vulnerable.
Because as you were speaking,the other thing that that felt
really important is the busynessprotected you from from having a
(26:03):
look at the vulnerable parts ofyourself. So it's like addiction
does serve a purpose. But Ithink when we recognize it for
what it is, like you're saying,now you can start to peel back
the layers and really look atthat pattern and where it came
from. And I'm curious what inyour journey, as far as
(26:24):
practices or learnings like whathelped you to be able to start
to unravel those layers andinvestigate those patterns?
Yeah. I would say the first likeit first accessible thing for me
was breathing and not likebreath work, because it took me
(26:47):
a really long time from thismoment to get to like actual
breath work. But this idea of,of just taking a moment to
breathe for myself, I when Ileft digital marketing for this
agency, I moved over and I wasworking for Nike and on campus
(27:07):
things are really spread out.
I'm sure many people haveexperienced campus life and
you're running from building tobuilding and you're running from
meeting to meeting. And Iremember having this insight of
standing in a stairwell. Andthere's like a lot of people in
the stairwells going from floorto floor and stepping off to the
side, like in the corner, andlike kind of hiding in plain
(27:28):
sight. And I was like, I justneed to stop and take a breath.
Like, I just need to take thismoment to give myself a moment
to breathe. And it was like Icouldn't do it in the conference
rooms. I was, you know, movingback and forth through like, I
was just everything was sopacked in my day. And I was
like, I'm going to steal thismoment for myself, and I'm going
(27:52):
to take a breath. And it wassuch a pivotal action because
one, it actually, you know, in alot of ancient and you know,
cultures, they talk about thebreath being the lifeforce. And
so this idea of like, oh, okay,I'm actually going to be
intentional and bring a breathin, feel it in my body, pause,
(28:15):
allow my body to rest, I didn'trealize at the time what I was
doing for my nervous system, butin that, that just like one or
two seconds of breathing, beingable for my body to move out of
that fight flight mechanism andactually come into a balanced
place was was huge. And so I wasdoing that for myself. But then
(28:37):
also, there was this intangiblething that I was doing, which
was I was taking care of myself.
And I was telling there was likethe subconscious message that I
mattered that I was lovingmyself that I was willing to
take care of myself, and putwhat I physically and
(28:59):
emotionally needed aboveeverything else that I was
committed to in my life forthose two seconds, and I would
do it like, I remember the firsttime I did it, and I was like,
wow, this is amazing. Why don'tI do this more often? And then I
was like, I don't have time todo this. You know, and of
course, I laugh about it nowbecause I was like it was
(29:21):
literally two seconds like I hadtime but I was not I was not a
sane mind apparently then. Andso I started to do this like
more and more like that. And Igot to a point where every time
I was in the stairwell, I wouldtake this like two seconds to
breathe. And it did just slowlychange everything and I think it
(29:41):
opened up the possibility forthe rest of my journey. So I
think wherever you are, ifyou're in that place where
you're like so busy and don'thave time to do anything, like
just taking a second when youyou know if you're commuting
like before you walk in the doorto like whatever's going to meet
you at home. Just go taking asecond to like pause and take a
(30:02):
breath or before you walk intothe office taking that second to
pause and breathe. Really, itseems so simple, but it does, it
does open up your life to all ofthe other things that then I was
able to explore it opened up thedoor to meditation. And I had
heard for years, like, Oh, youshouldn't meditate, it's it's
amazing thing. And I was like, Idon't have time I like I can't
(30:24):
turn off my brain. But thisbreathing, you know, taking two
seconds, I was like, well, maybeI could, you know, meditate for
like, two minutes or fiveminutes, I could try. And so it
opened up the door to that,which then opened up the door to
yoga, and really connecting backin with my body. And, you know,
(30:45):
it all sort of circles aroundthis idea of slowly finding
safety in my body again, whichthen allowed me to really take a
deeper look at, you know, what,what was I avoiding? What was I
running from, that I didn't wantto have to take a hard look at
(31:05):
and deal with from from a youngage.
Right? Right. It's what'sremarkable to me is how simple
but profound something like thebreath can actually be. And I
can't help but think of the, thecomparison between, say, tech
(31:26):
and nature, masculine andfeminine, right, it's like, I
think, I think we've gotten tothis point where we've learned
to value that which is reallycomplex, or showy, or over the
top or expensive, or whatever itmight be. And yet, there's this
incredible profundity thatexists in in things that are
(31:50):
free and things that are assimple as taking a breath or
putting our bare feet on theground. And I think we've
systematically learned todevalue the feminine so much,
that it's it's almost areclamation of that simple
profundity that we're in rightnow, as we as we relearn these
(32:13):
things. And what I love aboutyour story here is you were
almost able to leave yourselfbreadcrumbs along the way of
like having the environmentalcue that okay, when I'm in the
stairwell, I'm going to breatheand baking that in, so that you
could actually over time startto value yourself and feel like
(32:37):
I'm worthy of this breath, I'mworthy of having a nervous
system that isn't going haywireall the time. And so I love that
you were able to, to design thatinto your life. And it sounds
like doing that is part of whatopened up even more space and
(32:59):
let you look at that lifedifferently so that you could
start to make even more choicesor leaning, like, lean in even
more into those spaces. So I'm,yeah, I'm appreciating the
strategy that you that you hadthere, whether you realize it at
the time, or not of like, howprofound that strategy actually
would be.
Yeah, I definitely did not knowwhat I was doing then. But now
(33:22):
I'm like, Oh, it is it was I wasgenius to do this for myself.
Right. But I do think, um, youknow, it speaks to this idea of,
I think when I was in thatspace, I thought, you know, self
care or self love, or, you know,finding this space to rest had
(33:42):
to be something that was like,so far away from where I was
that I couldn't even get myselfthere. Like, a great example is
like, somebody would be like,well just take a bath and relax.
And I was like, oh, that soundshorrible. Like sitting in a
bathtub and like, you know, theway that people just got it. I
(34:03):
was just like, that does notsound self carry. To me, it
doesn't sound good. It's notgoing to feel good, like,
whatever. But it was because Iwas so far away from being able
to be in touch with myself andreally enjoy the calmness of it,
that it was just it was like toofar of a stretch. And so finding
(34:26):
something that felt like selfcare that was much closer and
much more accessible to me wascritical in in the unlocking.
And so wherever you are with myclients and even with myself
today, I'm like, What is thatthing that feels like it's just
outside of accessible or areright inside like I want to push
(34:51):
myself to the limit of mycomfort zone and sadly take
stopping in the stairwell fortwo seconds. I was right outside
the limit of my comfort zone inthat moment. But, you know, even
today, I'm like, Okay, what isthe practice that I can have?
That puts me just outside whereI'm comfortable, but I know is
(35:15):
nourishing? And so how do Ilike, add that into my life now?
Where it's not taking so much ofa leap that you just discount it
completely. So finding that thatlike balance of where you can
reach the step, I think isreally important in the process.
Yeah,definitely. I like the visual of
the comfort zone as well. And,and I almost picture it as a
(35:40):
bubble, right? Like, it justgets kind of bigger and bigger,
the more comfortable you get,being in the stillness, or being
with your own thoughts, your ownemotions, and then it's like,
Okay, what's, what's one morestep I can take? So I think
that's super, super helpful. AndI can't help but ask as we, as
we wind down what has been abeautiful conversation so far,
(36:01):
as you look at your life now,and how some of these practices
or these these different waysof, of rebalancing your life, if
I can label it that way. Whatwhat is life feel like now? And
what's your relationship to selfworth? Now that you're not
(36:24):
outsourcing it to say work?
Yeah. I love this question.
Thank you, I, like feels reallygood. And, and I feel like, in
every moment, I feel like I haveconnection to myself and
(36:45):
connection to other peoplearound me, regardless of where
or who I'm with, I'm able to bepresent with what's happening
now, instead of thinking aboutwhat might happen in the future,
or what happened in the past.
And there's, you know, sort ofan appreciation for whatever is
(37:10):
happening in the moment. So, youknow, sometimes I feel like,
when I talk with people, it canbe interpreted that, like, my
life is perfect. And I'm, like,always happy. And like, that
must mean that, like, nothinggoes wrong, and you're kind of
like, that's not possible inlife. And I am happy, like, most
(37:30):
of the time, and I really enjoymy life, most of the time. But
it's this appreciation for theups and the downs in my life.
Because when I'm up and thing,and I feel really good, and
things are like joyful, and, andyou know, effervescent and
happy, I can really enjoy it.
And when things are down, orlike I'm hitting a rough patch,
(37:51):
or, you know, like we're dealingwith a challenge in our family,
or whatever it is, I can reallyappreciate the growth that's
coming out of that moment,instead of being caught in the
like, Oh, my life is horrible,or like this is never gonna get
solved, or, you know, steppingout of the fear of what might
(38:12):
happen, allows me to just havesome perspective of, oh my gosh,
so much good is gonna come upfrom this, I don't know, I can't
know what good will come fromthis, like scary or bad or what
challenging situation. But Ifeel like I've lived through
(38:32):
enough of the ups and downs nowto know that the up is coming,
and it's gonna be prettyincredible if the low is here.
And so having that perspective,I think is what allows me to
really feel like I enjoy allaspects of my life. And the
inner self worth, the inner loveis somehow this idea of like,
(39:00):
there is an inner well of who,whoever I am, and the excitement
of constantly getting todiscover that, that I know who I
am in this moment, I know what Iwhat I offer the world and and
then knowing that tomorrow, it'sgoing to be slightly different
(39:21):
and excited to get to knowmyself and who I'm going to be
and how I'm going to evolve.
Tomorrow, the next day, who I'mgoing to be a new year, it's
gonna be totally different andthat that idea of knowing I'm
evolving is is exciting.
So beautifully said sobeautifully said. And I think
(39:44):
for any of the listeners whohave that more entrepreneurial
mindset and find themselves in alot of those ups and downs and
in that inner dialogue aroundtheir self worth or what does it
mean if I don't succeed? Whatdoes it mean if I Don't stick
with this or whatever thoseinner conversations are, I think
(40:05):
your story points to a differenttype of relationship with
ourselves. That's possible whereit's, you know, change, change
and evolution is, is okay, wecan be a new self in a week from
now in a month from now. And wecan, we can trust ourselves
through that, like, that's whatI really hear in what you're
(40:27):
saying of like, I trust myselfnow to get through the ups and
downs and to, to look at thehard stuff to ask the questions
that might illuminate adifferent perspective or a new
discovery, because I love howyou frame that of, I get to
constantly discover into this,this infinite well of who I am.
(40:49):
And I, I just think that's sucha beautiful frame on it,
especially for for thoseentrepreneurs and creators that
are listening. So thank you forthrough your story and through
your wisdom taking us throughthe nuance, because I think, as
we as we transition into newways of working new ways of
(41:12):
doing business, there's a hugecultural shift happening in
leadership right now. And Ithink it's going to take all of
us to learn how to trustourselves through the
uncertainty and the ambiguitythat we now face. And it's, it's
always so inspiring to me to toget to see Living Proof,
(41:34):
essentially, of, okay, like wecan, we can do hard things we
can we can look at ourselves,even, you know, even when that
feels hard. So, Dimitri, I thankyou so much for sharing your
story. I want to kick it back toyou for any closing thoughts,
and also letting the listenersknow where they can find you if
(41:54):
they want to learn more aboutyou and your work.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me. It's been amazing.
For if you want to find me, youcan find me on Instagram at
finding luminance or my websiteis finding luminance.com
Amazing, amazing to meet you.
Thank you so much. Thanks forbeing a light in this world
(42:16):
through how you're living yourlife. And, yes, just just thank
you just ending.
Yeah, I think that's it like thepast through is always
gratitude. And so, you know, howcan you be just a little bit
more grateful for what's cominginto your life? So thank you.
(42:39):
And we'll we'll leave listenerswith that question right there.
How can you be a little moregrateful for what's coming into
your life? Thanks for tuning inlisteners. We'll see you next
week. The inner work is oftenthe hardest work, but it is the
work required for lasting changeand healthier future for us all.
If you found the show valuableplease leave a review and
(43:01):
subscribe. You can also take adeeper dive with me at Nicole
belisle.com Thanks again forbeing here and showing up for
your new self. Your future selfis certainly thank you
The way we've been doing workand leadership is deeply broken.
Whether you're healing fromburnout or just looking for a
better way to run your company,you're in the right place. What
is the future of work even looklike? That is a question we get
to answer together. Afterworking with 1000s of executives
and entrepreneurs around theworld. I know that the deepest
leadership issues are deeplyhuman. We've got to heal
(00:32):
ourselves if we want to heal theworld. Welcome to the new self
Podcast where each week I'llhelp you explore topics that
will level up your leadershipand your life. I'm your host,
Nicole Belisle. I'm a leadershipexpert and Reiki master, and I
believe the secret to moreconscious work and leadership is
self healing, grab a seat andget cozy because we're about to
(00:53):
go on a journey. We are joinedtoday by the wonderfully wise
and relatable Demetria birbee.
To meet Tria is someone who putin the hard work to climb the
ladder, build the dream house,start the beautiful family, she
had it all. And when she lookedaround, realized, wow, I'm still
(01:16):
not happy. Where does this comefrom? There's something in me,
that is perhaps preventing myhappiness. We're going to
investigate the intricacies ofwhat happens when our self
identity and self worth getswrapped up in work or external
materiality. And throughDemetrius story, we're going to
(01:37):
look at how to begin to makespace for our truer selves to
come through, through simple yetprofound practices like
breathing, resting, taking thetime and space to ask ourselves
questions that no one else isasking. And then finding the
practices that work for you tocreate enough self care and self
(01:58):
love for you to keep going andkeep designing a life that is
true for you, rather than thelife you think you should have.
This episode is an invitation toreflect on what truly makes you
happy, and what practices allowfor the creation of space and
true self to come through.
(02:20):
Without further ado, let us divein with Dimitri birbee. To meet
you, welcome to the podcast. I'mso excited to dive into our
conversation today, there's somuch incredible ground that I
know will cover.
Thank you so much for having me,I'm so excited for this.
Me too. Just in our little ourlittle chat before before
(02:43):
recording, I can already tellthat the audience is going to
resonate so much with yourstory. So I'd love to start
there. And have you just walk usthrough what what was your
career path? What what wassuccess, like for you? And what
were some of those lessons alongthe way?
(03:04):
Yeah, I actually went to school.
As a computer engineer, Ithought, you know, it was the
90s. And computers would be agreat thing for me to get into.
And so I took this path downengineering, and then got really
deep into network security,which is like a pretty niche and
(03:24):
male dominated industry. Um, atleast it was in the 90s, like
mid to late 90s. And, and then Igot out of school, and I went to
find a job. And I wasinterviewing with these
companies. And I just realizedlike, oh my gosh, I can't I
can't do this like, like, theseenvironments are so stifling. So
(03:45):
at that young age, I just knew,like, I maybe made a mistake in
my education. And I found myselfworking for a digital marketing
agency. And you know, like theearly 2000s digital marketing
was a big deal and websites andhaving that engineering
(04:05):
background, I got into data andanalytics, right at like the
beginning of when that industrywas taking off. And so I spent
my early years really learningthat space and climbing the
ladder and, and I was reallygood at it. I found that, you
know, I was excelling with myclients. I was excelling in my
(04:30):
job titles and how much money Iwas making. And the organization
that I was with was growingpretty rapidly. So I had a lot
of opportunity and I took all ofit. You didn't really have
anything else going on in mylife. And so I could just pour
sort of like all of my beinginto my job. And I share that
part of the story because Ireally didn't have anything else
(04:55):
going on outside other than likehanging out with friends and
going to bars and, you know,like the normal stuff you do in
your early 20s. But, um, youknow, I really poured all of
myself into my job and, and thenover time, I, you know, found my
husband and we started ourfamily and I had all of these
other things that I wanted in mylife, but still career was at
(05:19):
the core of it. And, and as Iclimbed the ladder, I realized,
at some point that there wasmaybe something more that I was
missing. Because I, I was sortof at the top of the game, I
(05:40):
realized that the next job thatI would want, or the next job
that was in line, for me was ajob that I didn't want. And that
was the moment of like, wait aminute, what else is there I
like, you know, the motivationto work was always to get the
next job to like, master what Iwas doing, be really good at it,
(06:00):
and then get the next job. Andwhen you get to the point where
I was like, Okay, the next jobis something that I don't want,
like, I just didn't, I wasn'tprepared for that moment. I
wasn't, I didn't know that thatcould come for anybody. I just
thought like, no, no, no, youjust until you're at the very
top, you just keep going. And,and so that that moment in life
(06:25):
sort of happened at the sametime as some personal like, I
don't know, I think I was, I wasreally realizing that I was
unhappy at the core of it. And Ididn't know that about myself at
that time. And so coming toterms with Oh, my gosh, I can't
(06:45):
distract myself by workingtowards this next title. And I'm
starting to realize that I'mactually not happy in my life
generally, was a really, reallyhard realization to face. And so
it set me on this path in areally blessed way of me trying
(07:08):
to figure out what would make mehappy. And so I changed jobs. I
changed companies after 17years. And I thought, like, oh,
a new job, a new environmentwill fix all of this for me. And
I laugh because, of course itdoesn't, when you're not happy,
and you don't know yourselfchanging your job and stocked up
(07:30):
fix it. And so I switched jobsand, and was doing really well
there, but also just continuedto realize how unhappy I was.
And so had to eventually take alook at, you know, it's not this
external thing. It's not thatexternal thing. And I realized
(07:51):
it was me that I didn't, I wasunhappy with myself. And that I
would have to take some time toan effort to figure out who I
was, and what in the world wouldmake me happy in this life.
Wow, wow. I appreciate so muchabout your story, especially the
(08:18):
the journey of getting to thetop look, right, like looking
around and be like, Okay,there's there is this next step.
But I don't actually want that.
I think people are becoming morecomfortable with expressing that
or letting that be true. But ithasn't, it hasn't been around
very long this concept of wow, Ican actually say no, to the
(08:39):
hustle or to the ladder. And I'mso curious to dig in a little
bit deeper into what unhappinessactually looked like for you on
maybe an emotional level andembodied level. You mentioned
that you you had to go inward tofind what that was. But what
were what were some of thesymptoms or the clues that were
(09:02):
telling you that you weren'thappy?
Yeah, it's a great question. I,for me, unhappiness came about
that I was, well, when I wasexhausted all the time. I just
could not. And I was workinglike crazy hours. And we had
(09:24):
young children. And you know, itwas that time in life where
you're tired. But I wasexhausted. And in looking back
at that time in my life, I thinkI was probably a little bit
depressed or I was depressed.
And that was like added to thisfeeling of exhaustion that I
had. But it really came to this,like this beautiful moment slash
(09:44):
story where my husband came tome and he was like, Hey, let's
take the kids and go do thissuper fun thing. And you know,
like I I think I responded. AndI was like, that sounds like so
much work. Right? Like, like theidea of like packing the kids up
(10:06):
and like going and you know,doing something fun with them
felt like so much work. And hewas like, Well, why don't you
want to do it? And I was like, Idon't know, it just doesn't
like, it's not what I want todo. It doesn't sound fun for me.
And then his next question waslike, Okay, well, what if we do
this, you know, like, let's do adifferent activity. And my
(10:27):
response was the same toeverything that he said. And it
wasn't like, in that moment, itwas the same it was, but like,
this had been an ongoingconversation for like, probably
months or years, to be honest.
And it but whatever. In thatmoment, he paused and in like,
the most loving way, he askedme, he said, like, what does
(10:50):
make you happy? Like, what doyou want to do in this moment?
That would, that would make youhappy that would bring you joy?
And I looked at him, and I waslike, I don't know. Like, I
actually had lost sight of what,what would be enjoyable for me
to go do with the family? Orwhat would it be enjoyable for
(11:12):
them to go and like, Give mespace like that didn't feel like
it was going to be enjoyable,either. And so it was this
moment of him asking me, whatmakes you happy? What do you
like to do? And me realizingthat I had no idea that you
know, all of this, like the nicehouse and the nice car and like
(11:36):
the perfect family, and youknow, the loving husband and
whatever that we had, like,those things weren't making me
happy. And there was somethingthat I had to go back and
discover about myself tounderstand where I had lost my
way. And so it was that lack ofbeing able to access joy in
(12:03):
really like any environment thatmade me realize that there was
something that I was generallyunhappy, not just like, in a
moment.
I really appreciate thevulnerability there as as
someone who also was depressedat some juncture in my career
(12:24):
and didn't know it, I didn't, Iremember having the realization,
at one point I was I was the CEOof this company, and similar had
had worked my way up, I was soproud to be there. But so burnt
out, and everything wasbreaking, including me. And I
remember a moment where I, Isort of just let myself collapse
(12:47):
on the floor and cry for asecond. And I, I remember
thinking for the first time,like, wow, I have mental health.
And I don't think it's goodright now. And maybe that's part
of what's happening. And justlike having that not have even
been part of the equation, Iknew my physical body was
exhausted, I knew I wasprocessing a ton of emotion and
(13:10):
couldn't keep up with that. Butit was the first time I
realized, wow, I you know, Imight be depressed here. And so
your naming of what that feltlike, where you're looking
around all these things thatlike should or could bring joy.
And yet, because they sitoutside of us, or whatever,
because of our connection orability to relate to it, it from
(13:33):
a place of full vitality withinourselves. It's like to me, it
almost felt like indifference. Iwas like, Yeah, nothing, nothing
will make me happy, because Ijust am not happy as as a
person, as you know, a being ina body. So I'm appreciating the
vulnerability in in your storythere. And I'm curious, I'm
(13:58):
curious what you did next. Soyou, you know, you had this
realization that you needed togo inward? And I'm hearing also
the gift of the pause, like thegift of the the question that
your husband posed, because Ithink sometimes that can kind of
snap us out of our momentum orout of our norm, if you will. So
(14:21):
this this pause happens, a giftof a question to start
reflecting. What do you do next?
I am well, I will say in themoment, I didn't realize I was
going inward. It's only nowyears later, where I was like,
oh, that's what I was doing. Iwas turning from this external
(14:42):
facing existence, right that Ihad been in since I was a child
of you know, earn more money,buy more things that will make
you happy, like accumulate,accumulate, accumulate and like
attach to yourself to make youhappy, or to know who you are.
It's only now when I The factthat I was like, Oh, that was
the moment that I was like, oh,none of this is working, I have
(15:06):
to search for something else.
And in that moment, I didn'tknow I was like turning inwards,
and Gotcha. And so I think it'sjust helpful sometimes to say,
like, you don't necessarilylike, know what you're doing, as
you're fumbling through thisprocess, like, you kind of take
that next step that's in frontof you. And then the steps, you
(15:26):
know, they show up along theway, as Rumi, Jose, and um, and
then all of a sudden, you're inthis very different spot. But I
love your reference of thepause, because it was so
pivotal, that moment where heasked that question, and instead
of me, well, I mean, I don'tfully remember I probably yelled
(15:46):
at him in the moment was like,totally irrational. But, but
inside, in my light comes inplace, I took that pause, and
really took it in of like, oh,yeah, let me figure this out.
And the first thing I did was Istarted to read some books. And
when I realized that I was burntout, I realized that I was sort
of a workaholic and addicted tobeing to filling up all of our
(16:14):
calendars, not just my calendar,right? Like, if we kept busy, if
I was busy, then I didn't haveto think about anything, I
didn't have to feel anything Icould be numb to, like any of my
emotions, including happiness.
And, and so I started readingsome books that were like,
(16:34):
really accessible to mymasculine on the go, personality
at that time. And they werethings like, how to say no, in
your life, like how to learninghow to rest, asking the question
about who you are. How do youidentify yourself, if you strip
(16:56):
away your job title, and thetitle of wife, mother, sister,
you know, daughter? Who am I?
And and I couldn't answer thatquestion. At all. I didn't know
outside of my job title. Andlike all of the things that I
did, I didn't have anyconnection to being anything
(17:17):
else. And so I reallycontemplated that question I
still do today, ask who I am.
And it's a really big part of mypractice of remembering that I
am something that I feelconnected to, that's outside of
(17:41):
how anybody else defines me. Andso it's that that is what I when
I think about that selfdiscovery journey, and really
getting to know who you are,it's like, what is that spark
inside of you, that you canconnect with? And feel like,
Yes, this is who I am. And itand then that expresses in some
(18:02):
way out, that can be defined,but isn't defining me from
outside in.
I love that distinction, thatYeah, that's really, really
helpful of how you're of howyou're framing that. And I, I
also appreciate you highlightingthat when you're going through
it, we don't always know wherewe are in the process, or, or
(18:26):
you know, are even able to seethe full spectrum of what's
happening to us until we havethat hindsight. And I'm struck
by what you said about learninghow to rest. And that the like
the impulse was to go to go getthe books to go look outside of
(18:48):
ourselves, maybe still in thatpattern of leaning on the habits
that we maybe already knew. Andand that still was a pathway
that was maybe the the nextlogical move, to even be able to
start looking inward. But I'mstruck by the the learning to
rest and how, in a way thatalmost feels like the opposite
(19:12):
energy or the opposite medicine,to maybe combat some of that,
that control or thatperfectionism, even that
busyness because I know, I'msomeone who absolutely has those
perfectionist and controlwounds. And I know before we
hopped on, we were talking abouta little bit of that like early
(19:34):
childhood trauma as well, andhow that can impact these
patterns. So I guess talk to meabout about those patterns and
what it was like to start toboth notice them but also like
give yourself the dose of theopposite, the opposite energy
and how you land into that.
Yeah,I have to just pause though and
(19:57):
say your wording there ofperfectionist wounding is
profound, right? We, as asociety talk about like
perfectionism and drive andhustle and all of those things
as, as positives. And I feellike we've shifted to start to
(20:19):
see that they are not alwayspositive. But they do come from
a deep place of wounding. And Ithink that's so critical for
people to really understand thatperfectionism. In, in almost any
scenario, there's not there'snot a lot of positive there. It
does come from a place of like,deep hurt. So I just was like,
(20:43):
Oh, you said that? And I waslike, Oh, that I love that. So
thank you.
Of course, yeah, it's a big one.
It isit is. And when you have had
childhood trauma, which, ifyou're a perfectionist, you have
really had some reason that yournervous system has adapted and
(21:06):
taught you that you need to beperfect in order to be safe,
right? Like, there is some placein your childhood development
that you learned that in orderto be safe, or be valued, that
you needed to, like, upholdthis, you know, standard that is
necessarily real. But the ideaof learning how to rest, I think
(21:32):
was, was such a foreign conceptto me. And I think if you would
have said to me in that moment,like, Hey, I think you need to
rest, which I'm sure my husbandsaid plenty of times, to me, my
response would be just like,incredulous, like, why would I
(21:54):
possibly rest, like I sleep atnight, I don't have time to
rest, I'm too busy. I like if Irest, and I'm not going to get
all this stuff done that iscritical to my survival. And
like now, in retrospect, lookingback, when you're that busy,
when you're a workaholic, thatdrive is actually your survival
(22:14):
mechanism, you believe in orderto sustain your life that you
need to operate on full blast,24 hours a day that there is no
room to rest, because rest isequated with danger. And if you
think about our, our likeevolution, right? If we're
(22:39):
resting, it means that we're notgetting food, it means that we
are susceptible to, you know,some giant creature coming in
eating us or a lion, you know,starting to chase us and, and
kill us like, those are veryvulnerable times. And so
actually allowing our bodies andteaching ourselves that we're
(23:00):
safe, that the paradigm that wehave, like taught ourselves for
30 or 40 years is not is nolonger true. It's really
challenging. And, for me,learning to rest was was really
about finding that safety in mylife, not my external safety. I
(23:23):
mean, I've mentioned like, Ilive in a nice house, and I, you
know, I live in a safe part ofthe world, I'm very lucky in
that way. I live in a safe homeenvironment, like there's
really, very few places thatthere's like real danger in my
life. But my inner system, theway that it was wired, really
(23:43):
believed that at any moment, mywhole life might fall apart. And
you know, there would besomething so dangerous that I
needed to stay in this hyperactive hyper aware mode. And so
it's the unpacking of that, thattook so much work over the years
(24:04):
to really get to a place where Ican, on a daily basis, relax and
operate from that place of restand stillness, and then and then
have moments where I'm reallyactive instead of being totally
active all the time and havingmoments of rest.
Right, right. And what I what Ihear in what you're saying is, I
(24:29):
guess because of the stillnessand be and thanks to the
spaciousness that that creates,it's the difference that I feel
in my body, as you say that isthat like the difference between
staying in the reactivity and inthe addiction to the busyness
versus sitting in enoughstillness or enough spaciousness
to consciously choose andintentionally choose where am I
(24:53):
going to put my my preciouslifeforce and where am I going
to choose to, to act rather orthen sort of being in that
dance. And I appreciate theframe on workaholism and a core
patterns that sits at the centerof that being addiction, right?
Because I think for a lot of uswho have worked our way up in
(25:17):
the business space, or leadcompanies or whatever it might
be, we don't necessarily thinkof workaholism as an addiction,
it's, it feels safer to stay inthat it feels safer to, to wear
the mask to be perceived in acertain way by others. Like
there's, there's such aprotective part of us, that
(25:42):
shows up that I think, in someways is well intentioned. It's
like protecting us fromrejection or protecting us from
having to get vulnerable.
Because as you were speaking,the other thing that that felt
really important is the busynessprotected you from from having a
(26:03):
look at the vulnerable parts ofyourself. So it's like addiction
does serve a purpose. But Ithink when we recognize it for
what it is, like you're saying,now you can start to peel back
the layers and really look atthat pattern and where it came
from. And I'm curious what inyour journey, as far as
(26:24):
practices or learnings like whathelped you to be able to start
to unravel those layers andinvestigate those patterns?
Yeah. I would say the first likeit first accessible thing for me
was breathing and not likebreath work, because it took me
(26:47):
a really long time from thismoment to get to like actual
breath work. But this idea of,of just taking a moment to
breathe for myself, I when Ileft digital marketing for this
agency, I moved over and I wasworking for Nike and on campus
(27:07):
things are really spread out.
I'm sure many people haveexperienced campus life and
you're running from building tobuilding and you're running from
meeting to meeting. And Iremember having this insight of
standing in a stairwell. Andthere's like a lot of people in
the stairwells going from floorto floor and stepping off to the
side, like in the corner, andlike kind of hiding in plain
(27:28):
sight. And I was like, I justneed to stop and take a breath.
Like, I just need to take thismoment to give myself a moment
to breathe. And it was like Icouldn't do it in the conference
rooms. I was, you know, movingback and forth through like, I
was just everything was sopacked in my day. And I was
like, I'm going to steal thismoment for myself, and I'm going
(27:52):
to take a breath. And it wassuch a pivotal action because
one, it actually, you know, in alot of ancient and you know,
cultures, they talk about thebreath being the lifeforce. And
so this idea of like, oh, okay,I'm actually going to be
intentional and bring a breathin, feel it in my body, pause,
(28:15):
allow my body to rest, I didn'trealize at the time what I was
doing for my nervous system, butin that, that just like one or
two seconds of breathing, beingable for my body to move out of
that fight flight mechanism andactually come into a balanced
place was was huge. And so I wasdoing that for myself. But then
(28:37):
also, there was this intangiblething that I was doing, which
was I was taking care of myself.
And I was telling there was likethe subconscious message that I
mattered that I was lovingmyself that I was willing to
take care of myself, and putwhat I physically and
(28:59):
emotionally needed aboveeverything else that I was
committed to in my life forthose two seconds, and I would
do it like, I remember the firsttime I did it, and I was like,
wow, this is amazing. Why don'tI do this more often? And then I
was like, I don't have time todo this. You know, and of
course, I laugh about it nowbecause I was like it was
(29:21):
literally two seconds like I hadtime but I was not I was not a
sane mind apparently then. Andso I started to do this like
more and more like that. And Igot to a point where every time
I was in the stairwell, I wouldtake this like two seconds to
breathe. And it did just slowlychange everything and I think it
(29:41):
opened up the possibility forthe rest of my journey. So I
think wherever you are, ifyou're in that place where
you're like so busy and don'thave time to do anything, like
just taking a second when youyou know if you're commuting
like before you walk in the doorto like whatever's going to meet
you at home. Just go taking asecond to like pause and take a
(30:02):
breath or before you walk intothe office taking that second to
pause and breathe. Really, itseems so simple, but it does, it
does open up your life to all ofthe other things that then I was
able to explore it opened up thedoor to meditation. And I had
heard for years, like, Oh, youshouldn't meditate, it's it's
amazing thing. And I was like, Idon't have time I like I can't
(30:24):
turn off my brain. But thisbreathing, you know, taking two
seconds, I was like, well, maybeI could, you know, meditate for
like, two minutes or fiveminutes, I could try. And so it
opened up the door to that,which then opened up the door to
yoga, and really connecting backin with my body. And, you know,
(30:45):
it all sort of circles aroundthis idea of slowly finding
safety in my body again, whichthen allowed me to really take a
deeper look at, you know, what,what was I avoiding? What was I
running from, that I didn't wantto have to take a hard look at
(31:05):
and deal with from from a youngage.
Right? Right. It's what'sremarkable to me is how simple
but profound something like thebreath can actually be. And I
can't help but think of the, thecomparison between, say, tech
(31:26):
and nature, masculine andfeminine, right, it's like, I
think, I think we've gotten tothis point where we've learned
to value that which is reallycomplex, or showy, or over the
top or expensive, or whatever itmight be. And yet, there's this
incredible profundity thatexists in in things that are
(31:50):
free and things that are assimple as taking a breath or
putting our bare feet on theground. And I think we've
systematically learned todevalue the feminine so much,
that it's it's almost areclamation of that simple
profundity that we're in rightnow, as we as we relearn these
(32:13):
things. And what I love aboutyour story here is you were
almost able to leave yourselfbreadcrumbs along the way of
like having the environmentalcue that okay, when I'm in the
stairwell, I'm going to breatheand baking that in, so that you
could actually over time startto value yourself and feel like
(32:37):
I'm worthy of this breath, I'mworthy of having a nervous
system that isn't going haywireall the time. And so I love that
you were able to, to design thatinto your life. And it sounds
like doing that is part of whatopened up even more space and
(32:59):
let you look at that lifedifferently so that you could
start to make even more choicesor leaning, like, lean in even
more into those spaces. So I'm,yeah, I'm appreciating the
strategy that you that you hadthere, whether you realize it at
the time, or not of like, howprofound that strategy actually
would be.
Yeah, I definitely did not knowwhat I was doing then. But now
(33:22):
I'm like, Oh, it is it was I wasgenius to do this for myself.
Right. But I do think, um, youknow, it speaks to this idea of,
I think when I was in thatspace, I thought, you know, self
care or self love, or, you know,finding this space to rest had
(33:42):
to be something that was like,so far away from where I was
that I couldn't even get myselfthere. Like, a great example is
like, somebody would be like,well just take a bath and relax.
And I was like, oh, that soundshorrible. Like sitting in a
bathtub and like, you know, theway that people just got it. I
(34:03):
was just like, that does notsound self carry. To me, it
doesn't sound good. It's notgoing to feel good, like,
whatever. But it was because Iwas so far away from being able
to be in touch with myself andreally enjoy the calmness of it,
that it was just it was like toofar of a stretch. And so finding
(34:26):
something that felt like selfcare that was much closer and
much more accessible to me wascritical in in the unlocking.
And so wherever you are with myclients and even with myself
today, I'm like, What is thatthing that feels like it's just
outside of accessible or areright inside like I want to push
(34:51):
myself to the limit of mycomfort zone and sadly take
stopping in the stairwell fortwo seconds. I was right outside
the limit of my comfort zone inthat moment. But, you know, even
today, I'm like, Okay, what isthe practice that I can have?
That puts me just outside whereI'm comfortable, but I know is
(35:15):
nourishing? And so how do Ilike, add that into my life now?
Where it's not taking so much ofa leap that you just discount it
completely. So finding that thatlike balance of where you can
reach the step, I think isreally important in the process.
Yeah,definitely. I like the visual of
the comfort zone as well. And,and I almost picture it as a
(35:40):
bubble, right? Like, it justgets kind of bigger and bigger,
the more comfortable you get,being in the stillness, or being
with your own thoughts, your ownemotions, and then it's like,
Okay, what's, what's one morestep I can take? So I think
that's super, super helpful. AndI can't help but ask as we, as
we wind down what has been abeautiful conversation so far,
(36:01):
as you look at your life now,and how some of these practices
or these these different waysof, of rebalancing your life, if
I can label it that way. Whatwhat is life feel like now? And
what's your relationship to selfworth? Now that you're not
(36:24):
outsourcing it to say work?
Yeah. I love this question.
Thank you, I, like feels reallygood. And, and I feel like, in
every moment, I feel like I haveconnection to myself and
(36:45):
connection to other peoplearound me, regardless of where
or who I'm with, I'm able to bepresent with what's happening
now, instead of thinking aboutwhat might happen in the future,
or what happened in the past.
And there's, you know, sort ofan appreciation for whatever is
(37:10):
happening in the moment. So, youknow, sometimes I feel like,
when I talk with people, it canbe interpreted that, like, my
life is perfect. And I'm, like,always happy. And like, that
must mean that, like, nothinggoes wrong, and you're kind of
like, that's not possible inlife. And I am happy, like, most
(37:30):
of the time, and I really enjoymy life, most of the time. But
it's this appreciation for theups and the downs in my life.
Because when I'm up and thing,and I feel really good, and
things are like joyful, and, andyou know, effervescent and
happy, I can really enjoy it.
And when things are down, orlike I'm hitting a rough patch,
(37:51):
or, you know, like we're dealingwith a challenge in our family,
or whatever it is, I can reallyappreciate the growth that's
coming out of that moment,instead of being caught in the
like, Oh, my life is horrible,or like this is never gonna get
solved, or, you know, steppingout of the fear of what might
(38:12):
happen, allows me to just havesome perspective of, oh my gosh,
so much good is gonna come upfrom this, I don't know, I can't
know what good will come fromthis, like scary or bad or what
challenging situation. But Ifeel like I've lived through
(38:32):
enough of the ups and downs nowto know that the up is coming,
and it's gonna be prettyincredible if the low is here.
And so having that perspective,I think is what allows me to
really feel like I enjoy allaspects of my life. And the
inner self worth, the inner loveis somehow this idea of like,
(39:00):
there is an inner well of who,whoever I am, and the excitement
of constantly getting todiscover that, that I know who I
am in this moment, I know what Iwhat I offer the world and and
then knowing that tomorrow, it'sgoing to be slightly different
(39:21):
and excited to get to knowmyself and who I'm going to be
and how I'm going to evolve.
Tomorrow, the next day, who I'mgoing to be a new year, it's
gonna be totally different andthat that idea of knowing I'm
evolving is is exciting.
So beautifully said sobeautifully said. And I think
(39:44):
for any of the listeners whohave that more entrepreneurial
mindset and find themselves in alot of those ups and downs and
in that inner dialogue aroundtheir self worth or what does it
mean if I don't succeed? Whatdoes it mean if I Don't stick
with this or whatever thoseinner conversations are, I think
(40:05):
your story points to a differenttype of relationship with
ourselves. That's possible whereit's, you know, change, change
and evolution is, is okay, wecan be a new self in a week from
now in a month from now. And wecan, we can trust ourselves
through that, like, that's whatI really hear in what you're
(40:27):
saying of like, I trust myselfnow to get through the ups and
downs and to, to look at thehard stuff to ask the questions
that might illuminate adifferent perspective or a new
discovery, because I love howyou frame that of, I get to
constantly discover into this,this infinite well of who I am.
(40:49):
And I, I just think that's sucha beautiful frame on it,
especially for for thoseentrepreneurs and creators that
are listening. So thank you forthrough your story and through
your wisdom taking us throughthe nuance, because I think, as
we as we transition into newways of working new ways of
(41:12):
doing business, there's a hugecultural shift happening in
leadership right now. And Ithink it's going to take all of
us to learn how to trustourselves through the
uncertainty and the ambiguitythat we now face. And it's, it's
always so inspiring to me to toget to see Living Proof,
(41:34):
essentially, of, okay, like wecan, we can do hard things we
can we can look at ourselves,even, you know, even when that
feels hard. So, Dimitri, I thankyou so much for sharing your
story. I want to kick it back toyou for any closing thoughts,
and also letting the listenersknow where they can find you if
(41:54):
they want to learn more aboutyou and your work.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me. It's been amazing.
For if you want to find me, youcan find me on Instagram at
finding luminance or my websiteis finding luminance.com
Amazing, amazing to meet you.
Thank you so much. Thanks forbeing a light in this world
(42:16):
through how you're living yourlife. And, yes, just just thank
you just ending.
Yeah, I think that's it like thepast through is always
gratitude. And so, you know, howcan you be just a little bit
more grateful for what's cominginto your life? So thank you.
(42:39):
And we'll we'll leave listenerswith that question right there.
How can you be a little moregrateful for what's coming into
your life? Thanks for tuning inlisteners. We'll see you next
week. The inner work is oftenthe hardest work, but it is the
work required for lasting changeand healthier future for us all.
If you found the show valuableplease leave a review and
(43:01):
subscribe. You can also take adeeper dive with me at Nicole
belisle.com Thanks again forbeing here and showing up for
your new self. Your future selfis certainly thank you
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