May 16, 2023 • 47 mins
If you've been on a journey of personal transformation, you know that transformation is not a painless process...
Doing the deep inner work can bring us to our knees. Breaking away from beliefs that no longer serve us can feel like we ourselves are breaking. But as special guest Amanda Kate says in today's episode, she'd rather go through the transformation than give up the (often challenging) path of healing. There is so much to be gained when we do this work - authenticity, sovereignty, choice.
As we unlearn and deprogram, we begin to see new choices before us and take our sovereignty back. Those moments when we see the pattern and choose something different, often define who we become.
In this episode, we explore:
- Unlearning the patterns and beliefs that keep us stuck in cycles
- Healing after an abusive relationship
- Recognizing the voice of our inner abuser
- Anger as a signal that a boundary has been crossed
- Reparenting our scared inner children
- The importance of REST on the healing journey
- Raising our self-awareness to end cycles of harm
- Having grace with our divine, messy humanness
In this episode, I'm joined by author and transformational coach, Amanda Kate. Amanda Kate is the author of Divine. Messy. Human: A Spiritual Guide to Prioritising Internal Truth over External Influence. And she has an extraordinary way of synthesizing the key phases and revelations along her journey.
Learn more about Amanda Kate: https://www.amandakate.com.au/
#podcast #abuse #personaldevelopment #selftalk #reparenting #innerchild
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Meet our host, Nicole Bellisle:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nicole Bellisle (00:00):
Welcome back leaders, we have a great
(00:01):
conversation for you today withAmanda Kate, who is a trained
kinesiology artist, and bestselling author of her book
called divine messy human, aspiritual guide to prioritizing
internal truth over externalinfluence. And if that's not the
best book title I've heard in along time, I don't know what is
(00:22):
inside today's episode, wereally get into what the inner
transformation journey lookslike. What do we actually
experience when we start toalchemize our beliefs? How do we
identify those beliefs and thoselimitations in the first place,
so that we can begin todeprogram them and reprogram
ourselves with something else?
How do we alchemize our traumafrom early childhood from
(00:46):
abusive relationships that maybewe found ourselves in whether
that's romantic partnerships, ortoxic bosses in the work
context, we get into all ofthat, and more what strikes me
about Amanda Kate is her abilityto synthesize a complex journey
of our own becoming into alanguage that we can really
(01:09):
understand into a transmissionof those key learnings and
messages along the way, so thatmaybe we can accelerate our own
path, maybe we can have a littleless pain, a little less
suffering, a little more selflove and grace, knowing that
this incredible human wentthrough this journey, too, and
(01:30):
is now here sharing this wisdomwith us today, Amanda, Kate is
also a podcast host, a speakerand a life coach. And she really
works with people to breakthrough the barriers or the
ceilings that exist within selfso that through lifestyle
changes and different choices,they can begin to step into
their fully expressed self. Shedoes this mostly with business
(01:54):
owners and entrepreneurs so thatthey can express their whole
heart and soul into business.
Walking, this inner path is aform of leadership. And it's
certainly not easy, as you'llhear in Amanda Kate's story, but
she offers us really beautifulpractices and insights along the
way for having grace withourselves, when things get tough
(02:16):
when the inner critic shows upwhen we want to all but give up
so that we can keep goingbecause on the other side of
this is something so beautiful,so whole, and so loving, that
it's worth the pain that wemight encounter on this path to
coming home to ourselves. Notonly does this inner work of
(02:37):
alchemy, support us to be betterfor ourselves, but it also helps
us to show up better in ourrelationships, and our
companies, and the impact thatwe have on the world. So without
further ado, it is my absolutehonor to welcome Amanda Kate to
the show. Amanda Kate, welcometo the living leaders Podcast.
I'm thrilled to have you with ustoday.
Unknown (02:59):
Thank you so much. I'm just so grateful to be here. I
can't wait to have a chat withyou,
Nicole Bellisle (03:04):
Sam, Sam, I've, I've been perusing all of your
many channels and listening toyour episodes on YouTube in
particular. And honestly,before, before we hit record,
when I was watching the oneabout the dark night of the
soul, it actually brought me totears as I was making some food
in the kitchen and justpreparing for this conversation.
(03:24):
Because I think while we findourselves in this great
transition of moving businessinto a new paradigm and letting
go of what's not working, Idon't know that people realize
the full extent of the innerjourney that happens. And you've
done so much in this space. So Iwould love to just start with
(03:45):
your experience of going throughthis inner transformation. And
just how are you sense makingall of this in our crazy world
right now?
Unknown (03:55):
I think I'm gonna start with saying I don't think there
is any sense making of any ofit. And I think that's part of
the the trust of the journey andpart of the stepping into the
unknown, because let's face it,where we get stuck is where we
know. And we kind of keep goingback to it. People call it the
comfort zone. But I know for memy comfort zone was anything but
(04:17):
comfortable throughout mychildhood throughout my adult
life until I basically hit Ithink it was 3637 years old. And
I stayed in this reallyuncomfortable place because it
was what I knew. So I tend tocall it that known zone and we
call it the comfort zone becausethat's what it's been called.
But it's not and it's certainlynot where growth happens. And I
(04:43):
feel like I was phenomenallykicked out of my comfort zone
out of my known zone. And that'sreally I guess what opened the
door for me to find all of thisinner work. I always say to
people, I can't take you whereI've not been I'm so I guess
lucky for my clients, I'vepretty much been to the depths.
(05:05):
And I'm not afraid to go there,I've got a weekend and about
three weeks time where I'm goingto work out why I do all the
problems the way that I do them.
So, you know, I do the big work.
And I think the reason I do thatbig work one is because I'm ever
curious to is because I know ithas completely and utterly
transformed my life. And three,it's allowed me to bring the
(05:26):
work that I absolutely love andadore into the world. And so
it's recognizing that biggerpicture as you go along the
path. And this wasn't somethingthat I found and chose to do, it
found and chose me is the waythat it feels. So it really does
(05:46):
feel like that projection alongthe path. I think without going
to those depths and realizingthat we need to rebirth
ourselves, we need to retransform our experiences and
our stories and what they mean.
So that we can use them in adifferent way going forward to
literally change the world.
Nicole Bellisle (06:11):
Yeah, quite literally. And that connection
between inner and outer thatyou're that you're playing with
there, I just find that sointeresting, this inner alchemy
of really looking at all of theall of the intricate pieces and
wounded parts in our children,fears, there's so much in there
(06:32):
that we can't see. And theprocess of actually going in and
deprogramming that ordeconstructing decolonizing. I
mean, there's so many buzzwordsout there right now, to point
towards this process ofalkalinization. And so I want to
dig into that a little bit moreto ask like, what did that
(06:53):
specifically look like? For youwere that were there different
phases that you went through inthis? And what kind of kept you
going, even when things gottough? Or started looking really
hopeless even? Because I knowthat that's a common experience
for people in this type oftransformation?
Unknown (07:12):
Oh, 100%, you often I mean, I still will occasionally
bring a girlfriend and go, but Iget off the path now. And she's
like, do you really want to? AndI'm like, No, I don't know, this
is what I've been called to do.
I think the important thing isto rest when you are feeling
that. To go back to basics, I amreally big on doing the simple
(07:32):
things that make the big shiftsin your life. Because I look at
the quantum leaps that I've madeand people throw those terms
around. But the biggest leapsthat I have made have been
through to small daily practicesthat keep me grounded and keep
me present, that allow me thento look back and go, Holy crap,
(07:54):
my life has completely andutterly changed. So I think in
terms of that process, you know,when I first found kinesiology,
I was in deep trauma. I was in amassively toxic marriage, I
didn't even know I was in anabusive relationship. So because
it was so normal to me that Ihad no clue. And that then, I
(08:14):
guess, was the main reason forme going into kinesiology was I
was constantly finding out howto human almost, it was like,
Oh, my relationships not normal.
Oh my God, those things thatpeople say to me, aren't what
normal loving relationships, youknow, express to one another.
(08:36):
And even some of the commentsthat you know, I'd had growing
up people are going oh, that'sthat's actually not normal. And
I'd be laughing about it andthey'd be going Oh, bless you,
honey. Like that's, that's weneed to reprogram excuse this
isn't this is why you're in theyou know, the spotlight bother
you are, so to speak. So I guessa lot of that work was really
(09:01):
almost rebuilding me from theground up of me looking at what
had happened and understandingthat it was trauma. And
recognizing because trauma isn'tjust those big things that
happen to us. It's not just theaccidents or the big abuses or,
you know, those things that weoften think of as trauma, you
(09:22):
know, war, or, you know, thestuff that comes with being of a
different color or being of adifferent gender, we think of a
lot of those things astraumatic, but trauma is
anything that our body stores asless than nourishing and
nurturing. So when I look atthat I have been an abusive
parent, and I have to say it,you know, when I was being
(09:45):
abused, and when I was in my,you know, micromanaging,
controlling explosive because Iwas trying to keep so much down.
I know I've been an abusiveparent and I've spoken to my
children about us and I knowI've done harm. You know, I'm
open to go into any counselingWant me to go to I'm open to
healing this with you whenyou're ready to do it. I can't
(10:06):
undo it. But I can certainlymake as many reparations as
possible because I know I'vedone that to them. And I think
that's come through the wisdomof, of, I guess living this and
being able to see what causestrauma and and those patterns
that come in through life. So Iguess that first phase was
really, really diving deep intowhat got me into an abusive
(10:27):
relationship, why I couldn't seeit, how I allowed myself to be
in it for so long. And then itsort of moved into a lot more of
the Okay, so this is where I'mgoing, What's stopping me from
getting there. And we worked alot on that kind of thing, which
was still doing a lot of thetrauma work. But it was also
starting to set me up for, Iguess, building my life again.
(10:53):
And, you know, I got to thispoint at the end of last year,
and I've done a lot of differentmodalities, a lot of different
work with a lot of differenthealers. And I got to the end of
last year, and I was like, oh mygod, like, I feel like I'm
healed from that. I know thatsounds a bit crazy, but because
(11:13):
I don't know that we're everdone with the process. But I
feel like that major part hashealed and somebody wants said
to me at the beginning, it cantake half as long as it took you
to get to where you got to toget better. And I was in my
marriage for 14 years. And itwas seven years post divorce
that I got almost exactly to theday like within about five or
(11:34):
six days, I kid you not. And Iwent, oh my god, like this is
what people were talking about.
Like now there's other thingsI'm working on. There's other
things that I want to change toexpand and grow into. But I feel
like that trauma aspect, I don'thave to keep going over it. I've
got the awarenesses I've got theunderstandings, yes, there is
(11:54):
still cellular memory in my bodybecause it was, you know, 37
years plus of me in that stage.
And in that way of reacting and,you know, exploding things in in
unresolvable behaviors, andlearning new ways of being, you
(12:16):
know, it's been this real,unpacking, relearning something
and putting it together. Andthen going back again,
unlearning, working out what itis that I need to learn and then
living the wisdom of it. Andreally making sure that I embody
(12:37):
it. And I think you're right,you do get tired on the journey.
So there's been times that I'vejust had a couple of months off.
Now, I can't do any more than acouple of months off. For me
personally, because of the workthat I do. I need to be evolving
and changing and doing the workand checking in with coaches and
healers, to make sure that I'mon path that I'm on track that
(12:59):
I'm seeing, you know what Ican't see, because let's face
it, it's my story. I can't waitto see it, because I'm in it.
And so gaining that perspectiveis vital for me to be able to do
the work that I do in the world.
But I always say to people, ifyou're in that space, take a
rest, take a break, go back toyour basics, do your breathing,
war, get out in nature, go foryour walks, move your body. And
(13:21):
then when you're ready for thenext bit, go in again. And I
tend to sort of talk about it interms of that internal
scaffolding and the externalscaffolding. So the internal
scaffolding is the stuff that wecan do ourselves, the external
scaffolding of the otherproviders that we use to help us
gain different perspectives anddifferent wisdom and different
(13:42):
points of view on what we'regoing through.
Nicole Bellisle (13:46):
I love that so much. There's there's so much in
what you're saying here. Andthat last piece about sort of,
triangulating different vantagepoints or like using these
external perspectives toincrease your own self
visibility, I think is so keybecause you're right, we can't
(14:06):
see what we can't see. And inorder to actually do the
healing. The first step is oftenawareness. And I one thing that
I see a lot in leaders, and Ithink there's so many parallels
between what we're doing inbusiness and what we're doing in
in families as well. Likethere's, there's so many
(14:26):
parallels there. And when itcomes to showing up in
traditional business culture,and really putting on the mask
of what we think we should bedoing, that we're doing
everything right, were operatingfrom these values, or these sets
of patterns that we've sort ofinherited from the system that
(14:48):
that we were conditioned into.
And so similar to what you'resaying about how you can't
always see yourself. We alsocan't always see the context or
the culture that that we're inand till we stop and rest and
question these things and startto see, okay, well, maybe I
don't want to keep that patternmaybe that isn't serving maybe
(15:09):
that is harmful to my family ormy team or my future self even.
So yeah, there's just there's somuch in what you're saying. And
I'm curious, once you started togain more of that visibility,
and take those those moments ofpause and rest when you need it.
What were some of the earlysigns of change that that were
(15:32):
occurring? Like? How was yourhow's your life different? Now
that you've gone through some ofthis transformation work? Well,
I think
Unknown (15:44):
to go back and answer that first, but I think we're
all in the water. And we don'trealize we're wet. Because we're
all swimming in this society.
And so, you know, I remembergrowing up, and I'd hear racist
comments, or homophobiccomments, or all of that. Now,
for me to pretend that doesn'texist in me, is denial and
(16:04):
delusion. I am now aware of it.
So I don't ever want to causeharm. And I also know that
because of my conditioning, Imay not recognize that I'm
causing harm, unless I check inwith people of color, or
different races, or of, youknow, different genders, because
(16:29):
I am white, and female, andidentify as a woman and all of
that kind of stuff. So we can'talways recognize if we've been
swimming in that water, what isconsidered harmful and what
isn't. I think the other reallyimportant point is to not beat
ourselves up for it, yes, wewant to change, we want to be
(16:51):
Changemakers, we want the worldto be different. And we're not
always going to get it right, weare going to make mistakes, we
are going to trip up. And Ithink having that empathy and
self compassion is what we needto cultivate. So that we can be
more comfortable in putting ourhands up and saying, You know
what, you're right. I didn'tknow any better. And now I do.
(17:16):
So now I can make reparation.
Now I can make sure that in thefuture, I am aware of this, I'm
aware that I'm wet when I'mdoing this, and I'm swimming in
that water. And so I can hop outof the pool or whatever it is.
And so I think that's a reallyimportant part, I think the
first things that I noticed wasthat my anger lessened. I felt
(17:38):
constantly angry for so manyyears, because I wasn't being
seen, I wasn't being heard. Iwasn't being respected. I wasn't
being honored. Like I used tosay to my ex husband, you treat
me like a piece of shit on thebottom of your shoe that you're
just trying to scrape off. Andthat's how I felt. But of course
(18:00):
being in that state permanently,day in day out. It does make you
angry, because it's violatingall of your boundaries, when you
put a boundary in it iscompletely disregarded and
dismissed. And anger is there toshow us when our boundaries have
been violated. It's also thereto show us there's big emotions
that are sitting under thesurface when we're hurt. When
(18:20):
we're feeling unseen andunloved. It's showing us when
we're afraid. And I had all ofthat bubbling under the surface
and I could not look at it. Soanger made me feel like I was
doing something. Because if Igot angry, he would pay
attention to me and I felt real.
And that was the only time Ifelt real. Because I had no
(18:45):
interaction from him otherwise.
So I would create drama to getthe outburst to just feel like I
existed just for that moment.
And then I'd be okay. Notexisting again, because I'd feel
at least like I existed for alittle while. And I didn't
really want to exist in thatway. And so then there'd be that
conflict. But I recognize thatthe anger dissipated. And I was
(19:08):
like, Okay, this is interesting.
And then I was able to hear moreclearly my own inner abuser,
that allowed all of this stuffto happen, because whilst my
abuser was bigger than the abuseI was getting from everybody
else. I didn't recognize theirabuse as abuse. Because I was
still the worst person to myselfthe stuff I used to say to
(19:31):
myself, I wouldn't ever dare sayto another human being. Now as
that dropped, and as I startedto respect myself more, all of a
sudden I could see the abusefrom other people because it was
no longer it was just on adifferent level. And I was like
Ah, okay. But then of course Igot more courage and I'd start
(19:55):
calling it out which increasedthe toxicity in my marriage.
edge, because I was starting tocall it out. And I was starting
to go hang on a minute, I don'tknow that this is right, I don't
think that should be treatedlike this. And so again, it was
it was gaining more confidencein understanding that hang on,
maybe I do actually deserve somerespect. Or maybe I do actually
(20:17):
deserve some kindness. Or maybeI do actually deserve somebody
who may be able to see that I'mnot such a horrible human being.
And so that confidence graduallystarted to grow. And then the
way I was treating people waschanging, because of course, I
wasn't just this bowl ofsuppressed anger, and hurt and
abuse. And I look back at a lotof my own resourceful behaviors
(20:44):
back then. And when youunderstand the way that domestic
violence victims actually showout in the world, I was like,
Oh, okay. It took going to apolice station, and somebody
actually saying to me, you're ina domestic violence situation,
for me to actually even put itthat far. I was like, okay,
yeah, I'm in an abusivemarriage, like, I kind of got to
(21:04):
that point. But she said, thisis domestic violence. And I
remember the next day, I got acall from the Salvation Army
domestic violence unit. And Iremember saying to her, I'm not
being hit, there are people outthere much worse off than me.
And she's like, Oh, my God. Andthe number of times through my,
through my healing, I said, atleast I wasn't here. And they're
(21:26):
going you were hit every day,just not physically, it was with
words, it was with actions, itwas verbally. And so it was also
coming out of that and healingall of those wounds that were
very, very deep in my psyche.
And I still pick up the voice inmy head, that Who were you to do
(21:49):
that? I know exactly who thatcame from. I know exactly. Who's
saying that over my shoulder. Inow have the volume control for
it. So it's not that I've gottenrid of that voice. But I
recognize that voice. Who areyou to do that? Okay, I hear
you, I understand that part ofme is trying to keep me safe.
(22:10):
And I'm going to do this anyway.
So I think that a lot of thesereally big belief system that we
have. And I can tell you,because I've spent 10s of 1000s
of dollars, not just oneducation, but on my own healing
sessions, I'm probably over sixfigures these days. Like, I
know, you cannot get rid of allof these belief systems that are
(22:30):
so deeply ingrained in you. Wecan't, I don't know if I will
ever feel 100% worthy, or goodenough. I just don't, I don't
know if that's a possibility.
Maybe it is because I do believethat we can heal from anything.
But those belief systems havebeen so deeply ingrained since
birth. And now 45 have justturned 45. It's so deeply
(22:55):
ingrained in me. I hear thevoice now, though. And I
recognize it as one of thoseinner children, or inner
teenagers, or in a woman who wastold that over and over again,
through words, actions anddeeds. It wasn't just the words,
sometimes it was the actions,the dismissals, the abandonment,
(23:20):
the rejection. And I'm able tosee that hurt in a person and
give them the love that theyneed. And give them the
resources that they need as nowthe grown up in the picture. And
that's the difference the worksgiven me is it hasn't gotten rid
of some of those voices or someof those on results or
behaviors. I'm still onresourceful. At times, it is a
(23:44):
hell of a lot less than I was,you know, even a year ago, two
years ago, five years ago. Butof course, they come up because
I'm human. And I think that'sthe other thing we need to do is
we need to give ourselves gracefor being human. We're not
always going to get it right.
We're not always going to be onour a game. And if we can accept
and love that, then I think itmakes our human experience so
(24:05):
much easier.
Nicole Bellisle (24:08):
So true. Yeah, that that grace piece and the
the inner parenting or reparenting practice that you're
naming here to just help kind ofdraw the parallel to the
business world a bit. You hadframed one of your questions of
like, wow, if like, I'm mybiggest self abuser, right? If
(24:29):
someone was talking to me, likeI'm talking to me, Wow, that and
in the business world, we seethis too. Sometimes I'll ask
people if, if you if your bossif you had a boss that was
speaking to you, as you'respeaking to you, as your inner
micromanager or thatinternalized capitalist who's
(24:50):
telling you to get back to workand that your worth comes from
what you produce externally.
It's most people are like, nolike that would be a toxic
relationship. Would that bossthat would be a harmful cycle of
communication. And I would wantto remove myself from that as
best I could. But I think toyour point, it's, I mean, we're
(25:10):
picking up this, this innertalk, and all of these aspects
of our inner culture, from ourchildhood into our teenage
years. And I love that youhighlighted that. It's not just
verbal, right? It's like ourself talk, we kind of get that
from what we hear our parentssay, or what we hear society
say, but the nonverbalcommunication, of dismissal and
(25:33):
abandonment, or undervaluing,and over prioritizing work way
over our own health, it's, wetake all of that on. So the
Yeah, the dissecting that you'vebeen able to do is so there's a
complex system in there, there'sa living system in there that
(25:55):
you've, you've kind of got inand reprogrammed a bit, but done
that in such a healing way byrewriting how you relate to
yourself how you relate toothers, because it was it was so
cool to hear that piece in yourstory that you actually started
showing up differently in yourrelationships, there was less
anger, and then it's, you know,kind of ripples out from there.
(26:17):
But I want to circle back tothis, this grace piece that you
mentioned, and drop into whatthat looks like on a practical
level, because I know that youtalk a lot about being a messy
human, and that this is part ofthe journey. And I'm curious,
when that self critic shows upfor you, how are you still able
(26:39):
to give yourself grace? What iswhat does that look like in
practice, or in principle?
Unknown (26:48):
Yeah, to go back to again, that that first piece
that you're talking about, youknow, when when you're talking
about, you know how we put thisin business, we can't separate
this out. And so I really justwant to, I guess, put a little
pin in that for people. Youcan't just work on your business
self or just work on yourrelationship self or just work
on yourself in this area of yourlife. It is all inextricably
(27:11):
linked, if you want to change,it's doing that inner work,
which will change every area ofyour life because we can't just
silo out, you know, thephysical, mental, emotional,
spiritual, they're allintermingled. What I recognize
is, the more work I did, insteadof having one knee for work, and
one me for my ex husband, andone me for my children and one
(27:33):
me for these people, and whichwas exhausting and tiring as
hell, and I think a lot ofpeople do it. You know, I'm
picking up those pieces ofmyself, that I've discarded
along the way, or cut off andrepressed and hidden away
because I'm ashamed of them.
I've brought them back into thefold with love. So instead of
(27:54):
being all these differentpeople, I'm now that one. Now,
if you saw me in clinic in asession, I'd be very much the
way I am. Now, if you saw mewith, you know, my partner or
children, I'd be very much theway I am now. It's just that
obviously, people get slightlydifferent facets, depending on
what kind of capacity they'rewith me in. But I'm still with
(28:14):
that one entity. The way I'vebeen able to cultivate that
grace for myself is reallythrough that deep understanding
of human behavior. I startedthat journey through
kinesiology, it was, you know, adoor that opened and led me
through into this whole newworld that I didn't even know
(28:39):
existed of that Mind, BodySpirit connection of the quantum
physics of, you know, all ofthat quantum healing aspect, as
well as understanding the morephysical aspect of why we're
wired this way, the physiologythe psychology of, you know, why
we behave the way we do in theworld. And then I've also done
the archetypal life coaching,which goes to the ancient
(29:04):
archetypes, it's not the unionarchetypes. It's the ones that
were passed on, from theancients, through paintings
through story through mysticism,and the lady I learned that from
did 20 plus year priestessapprenticeship. So she's put it
(29:25):
together in a in an incredibleway. And learning that
archetypal stuff has again,given a depth and a different
layer to the work that I do, andthe work that I've done on
myself because when you'relearning this, you're going
through the process yourself.
(29:45):
You're going through thosehealings yourself as well as
then facilitating it for otherpeople. So I don't obviously do
anything I've not experiencedmyself. And in that healing What
I've recognized is every singlepart of me, that is unresolvable
(30:06):
the axon resourcefully, thatgets into reactivity, those
parts are all just trying tokeep me safe. They're all just
working on old conditioning thatthey thought would keep me safe
and keep me alive till the nextday. And so far, they've done a
(30:26):
really good job of that. But Idon't want to be going back to
my two year old, and asking fortools that I need to get through
life now as my 45 year old self,but she doesn't always realize
that I've grown up, becauseshe's still stuck as her two
year old self. Now, that doesn'tmean that she's trying to
(30:47):
sabotage me, or that she'strying to trip me up or get me
into trouble or you know, any ofthat sort of stuff, there's no
blame in that she's doing thebest she can. She just doesn't
have access to all the toolsthat I've got access to. And so
it's, it's parenting that child,darling, it's okay, I've got
(31:08):
this, I'm the adult You cantrust me, you're safe with me,
I'm gonna keep you safe. And,and having that standard for
myself now, that I will notallow anything in my life that
does not keep me safe, all of asudden means that safety really
is a non issue. And I canhonestly tell my inner children
(31:30):
in a teens that I've got thisbecause I will keep them safe.
Now, if I told them that I couldkeep them safe. And then I went
out and did something, you know,like, I've never dated another
person who was similar to my ex,then they wouldn't trust me. And
guess what would happen? They'darc up like a toddler who
doesn't feel safe. If I didn'trespect them if I didn't respect
(31:54):
myself, and this is why thatwork all starts with the inner
self. Because the more we keepourselves to the values and
standards that we need anddesire in our life. The left
sees inner children need to arcout because they trust that
we've got it. So they're notwarring parts within us. It's
(32:18):
this congruent hole. And I thinkthat's where the grace comes
from, is understanding thatwe're always doing the best we
can. And I know that forcertain, even when I have been
the worst version of myself as amother, I was still doing the
best I could. I was still tryingto protect myself and my
(32:38):
children from the environment wewere living in. Now, did I have
the tools? No, I didn't. My twoyear old was running the show.
And realistically, she shouldn'tbe when I'm in my late 30s. But
I shouldn't be coming down hardon her for doing the best she
could. And so that's where thegrace comes in.
Nicole Bellisle (33:02):
So, so beautifully put, doing the best
we can, yeah, and this, thispiece about trust, and
cultivating that inner thatinner safety. And that inner
sense of trust is so beautiful,because it in what you were
saying it's like it connects youto your action, it connects you
(33:22):
to your choices, and the lifethat the that you then build
from that sequence of choices.
So if you are honoring yourcommitments to yourself, living
by your values, settingboundaries and keeping them
you're you're keeping all ofthose inner children safe, as
you're saying, and I just feellike what becomes possible from
(33:44):
there is is much more limitless.
Because if we're operating fromthat fear and that unsafety we
can't actually see all that'spossible either. So when we when
we cultivate the safety andself, we can take bigger risks,
we can be bolder, we can be morefully expressed, because like
(34:05):
we've got our own back. And Ithink that cultivation, once we
build that in, in ourselves, Isee this in leaders who are
outperforming peers, where if ifthey are operating from that
level of integrity and selftrust that you're talking about,
like that is how they createcultures of safety and trust for
(34:28):
their teams. And these are theorganizations that are now
attracting all of the talentbecause these are the companies
and organizations that are safeto be at and safe to play.
Within you have all of yourinner children kind of cared for
in in these work, cultures ofcare that are starting to pop up
(34:48):
and haven't existed. For allthat long. It's like this is
fairly new that we're seeingthis kind of scale and I'm so
grateful that we are
Unknown (34:57):
it's it's revolutionary and I think, you know, people do
talk about that safety at work.
And I think it's alsounderstanding that we only need
to be showing the bits that wewant to show at work as well.
You know, we don't always wantto bring our whole self to work.
Because it is, after all work,like for me with my job, of
(35:18):
course, I bring my whole self Ihave, you know, there's no other
option really for me. But I canimagine working for somebody
else, there would be bits that Iwould keep just for me, and some
people might see it other peoplemay not, it doesn't mean that I
wouldn't be hold still. And so Ithink it's also having grace and
acceptance for other peoplechoosing which bits are bringing
(35:41):
into the workplace and whichbits are going to be, you know,
fully shined off and fullyexpressed, and also honoring
those bits that they're going,you know what this actually
isn't, it's having full choice,I guess, is the point. And
that's the bit that I think isso vitally important in these
workplaces, you know, what youare safe to bring whatever you
want to bring into thisworkplace. And also, I honor
(36:02):
your choice to show up however,you want to show up and be the
kind of person that, you know,obviously, we expect in this
kind of revolutionary change ofworkplace. And I only say that
having listened to some podcaststhat I mentioned earlier, from
this lady who does work in thisactivism space, and, you know,
(36:26):
they were talking about the factthat not everybody wants to
bring their full self to work.
And I kind of thought, You knowwhat, that's fair enough,
actually, that may not be theirpassion project. So there may
bring that little self. However,if they can show up as their
authentic in that authentic way,then that's just as valuable as
(36:51):
bringing that whole self towork. So I guess I want to just
state that because I think it'sreally important almost to give
people permission, one to betheir whole self, but to that
they don't have to show it inevery single environment in
every single relationship. Andit'd be exhausting to be your
whole self all the time. Youknow, realistically, let's face.
(37:18):
Because also, if we are our truewhole self, then they're going
to see the less results fromparts of us, because that's who
part of our whole self is. Andso again, it's, I guess, giving
a few little parameters to it,because I feel like people need
permission. This is a new gamethat we're playing. And we're
(37:38):
still writing the rules on it.
And so I guess it's also havingthat permission to, you know,
cross out what we put in as arule and go, maybe that just
needs to be a guideline, ormaybe that's just, you know,
maybe that one doesn't work orwhatever it is, it's it's giving
ourselves permission to playwith the idea, so that we can
open up that creativity and findthe structures then that are
(38:01):
able to work best to supportthat creativity.
Nicole Bellisle (38:09):
Yeah, it almost it almost sounds to me like that
journey through creativity andkind of finding, finding those
structures as we walk ourselveshome, to our to our sovereignty
in a way and that permissionthat you're speaking about. And
that choice of, well, maybe Idon't need to show up as my
whole self in all situations,but it's still it's authentic
(38:31):
for me to choose that and to setthat boundary of which pieces
I'm bringing, or how how big myexpression is in this moment.
And that level of, ofsovereignty and self management,
I think is so beautiful. And inand previously, we have been
outsourcing leadership,externally. And we haven't I
(38:54):
don't think we've fully seen thepotential of when we reclaim
that sovereignty and become ourown self leaders in this space
doing doing that inner healingwork and making our own choices
in this way. But it alsorequires us to go full circle in
the conversation, to have theself visibility of what our
(39:15):
gifts are, as well. And so Ithink this is another really
interesting shift right nowwhere robots AI could take over
the things that are more cookiecutter or more machine like as
far as functions, but thoseunique human gifts, I don't
think that goes away. So goingon the journey of cultivating
(39:36):
that and getting people to havethe opportunities to align with
those opportunities and expressthemselves into them, I think
will create a much differentwork landscape than we've seen.
And so I'm curious now thatyou're so we've kind of got like
the full arc of your journeyhere. We went into the dark
(39:58):
night of the soul a little bitwe get to hear Are some of the
practices for inter re parentingand what's possible on the other
side of that, and I'm curiouswhen it comes to how you're
showing up in your gifts nowthat you've cleared out some of
that pattern that you'verewired, a lot of the ways that
you're even relating toyourself, What are those gifts
(40:20):
look like now? And how are thosewanting to shine in the world so
that we can see you in those?
Unknown (40:27):
I think it's, it's just a constant evolution, it's, I
think there are always differentlevels of expansion and growth
to go through. So as much asI've, I've done a lot of that
work. And as I said, Before, Ikind of feel healed from that
past trauma, there will alwaysbe things that pop up, where
I'll be like, Okay, I'll look atthat now. Now I can look at
(40:48):
this, because I've got the spacenow to go, Okay, where do I want
to be? How do I want to beshowing, when it comes to, you
know, that workplace aspect andand those gifts, robots will
never be human. As much aspeople are talking about it, and
integration and blahdy blahdy,blah, they will never be able to
(41:10):
hold a paintbrush and paint fromthe heart the way we do, they
will not be able to write wordson a page, the way a human being
channels their soul throughtheir heart and expresses it on
a page. So there will always belimitations, they will not be
(41:30):
able to speak with tears rollingdown their face the way that
humans can. Because we arefeeling machines, they are not.
And we can try and program thatidea of feeling into them. But
as you as I know, from my past,when I wasn't truly feeling I
was in that robot kind of state,and there are enough people out
(41:53):
there still in that state.
However, as we wake up, and weallow ourselves to express all
those feelings, it is a very,very different landscape. And so
I think especially for me, youknow, as I'm moving forward, it
is tapping more into thatcreativity is allowing that
creative expression out into theworld more, whether that be
through, you know, I started anew podcast a few months ago
(42:14):
that I'm just playing with,again, you know, we'll see where
it goes, I'll see what happens.
There's no expectation on it.
Again, I've got my notes, mysecond book in my drawer, and
who knows when that will comeout. But I just keep adding
notes to it and seeing again,it'll happen when it happens.
It's it's bringing the work toclients from a perspective of
(42:36):
having walked the path. And nowbeing able to look back and help
other people walk that path.
Helping them understand thatyeah, okay, it took me seven
years. But hopefully now I candistill that a lot better for
you to be able to get you to aplace that I'm at a hell of a
(42:59):
lot quicker than I did. And alsoknowing that sometimes it will
take that long. You know, ifwe're not prepared to look at
something, we're not going tolook at it until we're ready.
And so again, having them be,you know, kind of graceful with
themselves to sometimes go youknow what, I'm not ready to look
at that. I don't want to dealwith that yet. Fine. Let's park
(43:22):
it. It's being in full choice.
And I think that's the beautyand the magic. And you know, I
don't know what's coming. Idon't know what's going to
happen in two months, let alonesix, let alone 12. I have a
grand vision of what I want. Butagain, the universe may decide
different.
(43:44):
Right? Right. It's dynamic. Justgotta trust that. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Nicole Bellisle (43:50):
Wow, well, perhaps a beautiful place to
leave listeners of coming backto that choice point as well.
It's a choice what we pick upand when and deciding when it's
right for us. And I want to Iwant to give you the last word
here, if there's anything thatyou're wanting to leave
listeners with, as we wrap uphere, or invite them to if there
(44:11):
are ways that they can learnmore about you and your work.
And yeah, I just so appreciateeverything that we covered in
this beautiful conversation.
Unknown (44:21):
Thank you so much. I think the the thing I want to
leave people with is, you know,I guess the meaning behind that
title of my book. You know, whenI was denying my divinity, and
papering over the facade of mymessiness, trying to pretend
that I had my shit together. Myhuman existence was really
tough. When I bring that divine,messy human into the light, I am
(44:47):
honoring the divine in me, I'malso honoring the messiness and
understanding that it willalways be there. And it's made
my human existence so mucheasier. And so if we can tap
into that side I'd then thatprioritizing of internal truth
of external influence becomeseasier, because we're able to
(45:07):
turn down the noise on theoutside world and tap into that
divine messy self. To see whatfits for us in this moment right
now, before we then move forwardtaking action, it's a slowing
down. It's a quietening. It's alistening to self, rather than a
running forward and hoping tohell that you can just push
(45:27):
through it all. And and I thinkif people can tap into that,
they will start to recognizethat they have all of the
answers they need within them.
Sometimes they just need a bitof perspective in terms of
dusting it off or shaping it orhelping them put it into, I
guess, a package that works forthem. And so if anyone wants to
find out more, they can just goto my website, which is Amanda
(45:50):
kake.com.au. And all my sociallinks are there. So yeah.
Nicole Bellisle (45:58):
Amanda, Kate, this has been wonderful. Thank
you so much for being here,listeners. Thanks for tuning in.
And we'll see you next week.
Unknown (46:05):
Thank you
Welcome back leaders, we have a great
(00:01):
conversation for you today withAmanda Kate, who is a trained
kinesiology artist, and bestselling author of her book
called divine messy human, aspiritual guide to prioritizing
internal truth over externalinfluence. And if that's not the
best book title I've heard in along time, I don't know what is
(00:22):
inside today's episode, wereally get into what the inner
transformation journey lookslike. What do we actually
experience when we start toalchemize our beliefs? How do we
identify those beliefs and thoselimitations in the first place,
so that we can begin todeprogram them and reprogram
ourselves with something else?
How do we alchemize our traumafrom early childhood from
(00:46):
abusive relationships that maybewe found ourselves in whether
that's romantic partnerships, ortoxic bosses in the work
context, we get into all ofthat, and more what strikes me
about Amanda Kate is her abilityto synthesize a complex journey
of our own becoming into alanguage that we can really
(01:09):
understand into a transmissionof those key learnings and
messages along the way, so thatmaybe we can accelerate our own
path, maybe we can have a littleless pain, a little less
suffering, a little more selflove and grace, knowing that
this incredible human wentthrough this journey, too, and
(01:30):
is now here sharing this wisdomwith us today, Amanda, Kate is
also a podcast host, a speakerand a life coach. And she really
works with people to breakthrough the barriers or the
ceilings that exist within selfso that through lifestyle
changes and different choices,they can begin to step into
their fully expressed self. Shedoes this mostly with business
(01:54):
owners and entrepreneurs so thatthey can express their whole
heart and soul into business.
Walking, this inner path is aform of leadership. And it's
certainly not easy, as you'llhear in Amanda Kate's story, but
she offers us really beautifulpractices and insights along the
way for having grace withourselves, when things get tough
(02:16):
when the inner critic shows upwhen we want to all but give up
so that we can keep goingbecause on the other side of
this is something so beautiful,so whole, and so loving, that
it's worth the pain that wemight encounter on this path to
coming home to ourselves. Notonly does this inner work of
(02:37):
alchemy, support us to be betterfor ourselves, but it also helps
us to show up better in ourrelationships, and our
companies, and the impact thatwe have on the world. So without
further ado, it is my absolutehonor to welcome Amanda Kate to
the show. Amanda Kate, welcometo the living leaders Podcast.
I'm thrilled to have you with ustoday.
Unknown (02:59):
Thank you so much. I'm just so grateful to be here. I
can't wait to have a chat withyou,
Nicole Bellisle (03:04):
Sam, Sam, I've, I've been perusing all of your
many channels and listening toyour episodes on YouTube in
particular. And honestly,before, before we hit record,
when I was watching the oneabout the dark night of the
soul, it actually brought me totears as I was making some food
in the kitchen and justpreparing for this conversation.
(03:24):
Because I think while we findourselves in this great
transition of moving businessinto a new paradigm and letting
go of what's not working, Idon't know that people realize
the full extent of the innerjourney that happens. And you've
done so much in this space. So Iwould love to just start with
(03:45):
your experience of going throughthis inner transformation. And
just how are you sense makingall of this in our crazy world
right now?
Unknown (03:55):
I think I'm gonna start with saying I don't think there
is any sense making of any ofit. And I think that's part of
the the trust of the journey andpart of the stepping into the
unknown, because let's face it,where we get stuck is where we
know. And we kind of keep goingback to it. People call it the
comfort zone. But I know for memy comfort zone was anything but
(04:17):
comfortable throughout mychildhood throughout my adult
life until I basically hit Ithink it was 3637 years old. And
I stayed in this reallyuncomfortable place because it
was what I knew. So I tend tocall it that known zone and we
call it the comfort zone becausethat's what it's been called.
But it's not and it's certainlynot where growth happens. And I
(04:43):
feel like I was phenomenallykicked out of my comfort zone
out of my known zone. And that'sreally I guess what opened the
door for me to find all of thisinner work. I always say to
people, I can't take you whereI've not been I'm so I guess
lucky for my clients, I'vepretty much been to the depths.
(05:05):
And I'm not afraid to go there,I've got a weekend and about
three weeks time where I'm goingto work out why I do all the
problems the way that I do them.
So, you know, I do the big work.
And I think the reason I do thatbig work one is because I'm ever
curious to is because I know ithas completely and utterly
transformed my life. And three,it's allowed me to bring the
(05:26):
work that I absolutely love andadore into the world. And so
it's recognizing that biggerpicture as you go along the
path. And this wasn't somethingthat I found and chose to do, it
found and chose me is the waythat it feels. So it really does
(05:46):
feel like that projection alongthe path. I think without going
to those depths and realizingthat we need to rebirth
ourselves, we need to retransform our experiences and
our stories and what they mean.
So that we can use them in adifferent way going forward to
literally change the world.
Nicole Bellisle (06:11):
Yeah, quite literally. And that connection
between inner and outer thatyou're that you're playing with
there, I just find that sointeresting, this inner alchemy
of really looking at all of theall of the intricate pieces and
wounded parts in our children,fears, there's so much in there
(06:32):
that we can't see. And theprocess of actually going in and
deprogramming that ordeconstructing decolonizing. I
mean, there's so many buzzwordsout there right now, to point
towards this process ofalkalinization. And so I want to
dig into that a little bit moreto ask like, what did that
(06:53):
specifically look like? For youwere that were there different
phases that you went through inthis? And what kind of kept you
going, even when things gottough? Or started looking really
hopeless even? Because I knowthat that's a common experience
for people in this type oftransformation?
Unknown (07:12):
Oh, 100%, you often I mean, I still will occasionally
bring a girlfriend and go, but Iget off the path now. And she's
like, do you really want to? AndI'm like, No, I don't know, this
is what I've been called to do.
I think the important thing isto rest when you are feeling
that. To go back to basics, I amreally big on doing the simple
(07:32):
things that make the big shiftsin your life. Because I look at
the quantum leaps that I've madeand people throw those terms
around. But the biggest leapsthat I have made have been
through to small daily practicesthat keep me grounded and keep
me present, that allow me thento look back and go, Holy crap,
(07:54):
my life has completely andutterly changed. So I think in
terms of that process, you know,when I first found kinesiology,
I was in deep trauma. I was in amassively toxic marriage, I
didn't even know I was in anabusive relationship. So because
it was so normal to me that Ihad no clue. And that then, I
(08:14):
guess, was the main reason forme going into kinesiology was I
was constantly finding out howto human almost, it was like,
Oh, my relationships not normal.
Oh my God, those things thatpeople say to me, aren't what
normal loving relationships, youknow, express to one another.
(08:36):
And even some of the commentsthat you know, I'd had growing
up people are going oh, that'sthat's actually not normal. And
I'd be laughing about it andthey'd be going Oh, bless you,
honey. Like that's, that's weneed to reprogram excuse this
isn't this is why you're in theyou know, the spotlight bother
you are, so to speak. So I guessa lot of that work was really
(09:01):
almost rebuilding me from theground up of me looking at what
had happened and understandingthat it was trauma. And
recognizing because trauma isn'tjust those big things that
happen to us. It's not just theaccidents or the big abuses or,
you know, those things that weoften think of as trauma, you
(09:22):
know, war, or, you know, thestuff that comes with being of a
different color or being of adifferent gender, we think of a
lot of those things astraumatic, but trauma is
anything that our body stores asless than nourishing and
nurturing. So when I look atthat I have been an abusive
parent, and I have to say it,you know, when I was being
(09:45):
abused, and when I was in my,you know, micromanaging,
controlling explosive because Iwas trying to keep so much down.
I know I've been an abusiveparent and I've spoken to my
children about us and I knowI've done harm. You know, I'm
open to go into any counselingWant me to go to I'm open to
healing this with you whenyou're ready to do it. I can't
(10:06):
undo it. But I can certainlymake as many reparations as
possible because I know I'vedone that to them. And I think
that's come through the wisdomof, of, I guess living this and
being able to see what causestrauma and and those patterns
that come in through life. So Iguess that first phase was
really, really diving deep intowhat got me into an abusive
(10:27):
relationship, why I couldn't seeit, how I allowed myself to be
in it for so long. And then itsort of moved into a lot more of
the Okay, so this is where I'mgoing, What's stopping me from
getting there. And we worked alot on that kind of thing, which
was still doing a lot of thetrauma work. But it was also
starting to set me up for, Iguess, building my life again.
(10:53):
And, you know, I got to thispoint at the end of last year,
and I've done a lot of differentmodalities, a lot of different
work with a lot of differenthealers. And I got to the end of
last year, and I was like, oh mygod, like, I feel like I'm
healed from that. I know thatsounds a bit crazy, but because
(11:13):
I don't know that we're everdone with the process. But I
feel like that major part hashealed and somebody wants said
to me at the beginning, it cantake half as long as it took you
to get to where you got to toget better. And I was in my
marriage for 14 years. And itwas seven years post divorce
that I got almost exactly to theday like within about five or
(11:34):
six days, I kid you not. And Iwent, oh my god, like this is
what people were talking about.
Like now there's other thingsI'm working on. There's other
things that I want to change toexpand and grow into. But I feel
like that trauma aspect, I don'thave to keep going over it. I've
got the awarenesses I've got theunderstandings, yes, there is
(11:54):
still cellular memory in my bodybecause it was, you know, 37
years plus of me in that stage.
And in that way of reacting and,you know, exploding things in in
unresolvable behaviors, andlearning new ways of being, you
(12:16):
know, it's been this real,unpacking, relearning something
and putting it together. Andthen going back again,
unlearning, working out what itis that I need to learn and then
living the wisdom of it. Andreally making sure that I embody
(12:37):
it. And I think you're right,you do get tired on the journey.
So there's been times that I'vejust had a couple of months off.
Now, I can't do any more than acouple of months off. For me
personally, because of the workthat I do. I need to be evolving
and changing and doing the workand checking in with coaches and
healers, to make sure that I'mon path that I'm on track that
(12:59):
I'm seeing, you know what Ican't see, because let's face
it, it's my story. I can't waitto see it, because I'm in it.
And so gaining that perspectiveis vital for me to be able to do
the work that I do in the world.
But I always say to people, ifyou're in that space, take a
rest, take a break, go back toyour basics, do your breathing,
war, get out in nature, go foryour walks, move your body. And
(13:21):
then when you're ready for thenext bit, go in again. And I
tend to sort of talk about it interms of that internal
scaffolding and the externalscaffolding. So the internal
scaffolding is the stuff that wecan do ourselves, the external
scaffolding of the otherproviders that we use to help us
gain different perspectives anddifferent wisdom and different
(13:42):
points of view on what we'regoing through.
Nicole Bellisle (13:46):
I love that so much. There's there's so much in
what you're saying here. Andthat last piece about sort of,
triangulating different vantagepoints or like using these
external perspectives toincrease your own self
visibility, I think is so keybecause you're right, we can't
(14:06):
see what we can't see. And inorder to actually do the
healing. The first step is oftenawareness. And I one thing that
I see a lot in leaders, and Ithink there's so many parallels
between what we're doing inbusiness and what we're doing in
in families as well. Likethere's, there's so many
(14:26):
parallels there. And when itcomes to showing up in
traditional business culture,and really putting on the mask
of what we think we should bedoing, that we're doing
everything right, were operatingfrom these values, or these sets
of patterns that we've sort ofinherited from the system that
(14:48):
that we were conditioned into.
And so similar to what you'resaying about how you can't
always see yourself. We alsocan't always see the context or
the culture that that we're inand till we stop and rest and
question these things and startto see, okay, well, maybe I
don't want to keep that patternmaybe that isn't serving maybe
(15:09):
that is harmful to my family ormy team or my future self even.
So yeah, there's just there's somuch in what you're saying. And
I'm curious, once you started togain more of that visibility,
and take those those moments ofpause and rest when you need it.
What were some of the earlysigns of change that that were
(15:32):
occurring? Like? How was yourhow's your life different? Now
that you've gone through some ofthis transformation work? Well,
I think
Unknown (15:44):
to go back and answer that first, but I think we're
all in the water. And we don'trealize we're wet. Because we're
all swimming in this society.
And so, you know, I remembergrowing up, and I'd hear racist
comments, or homophobiccomments, or all of that. Now,
for me to pretend that doesn'texist in me, is denial and
(16:04):
delusion. I am now aware of it.
So I don't ever want to causeharm. And I also know that
because of my conditioning, Imay not recognize that I'm
causing harm, unless I check inwith people of color, or
different races, or of, youknow, different genders, because
(16:29):
I am white, and female, andidentify as a woman and all of
that kind of stuff. So we can'talways recognize if we've been
swimming in that water, what isconsidered harmful and what
isn't. I think the other reallyimportant point is to not beat
ourselves up for it, yes, wewant to change, we want to be
(16:51):
Changemakers, we want the worldto be different. And we're not
always going to get it right, weare going to make mistakes, we
are going to trip up. And Ithink having that empathy and
self compassion is what we needto cultivate. So that we can be
more comfortable in putting ourhands up and saying, You know
what, you're right. I didn'tknow any better. And now I do.
(17:16):
So now I can make reparation.
Now I can make sure that in thefuture, I am aware of this, I'm
aware that I'm wet when I'mdoing this, and I'm swimming in
that water. And so I can hop outof the pool or whatever it is.
And so I think that's a reallyimportant part, I think the
first things that I noticed wasthat my anger lessened. I felt
(17:38):
constantly angry for so manyyears, because I wasn't being
seen, I wasn't being heard. Iwasn't being respected. I wasn't
being honored. Like I used tosay to my ex husband, you treat
me like a piece of shit on thebottom of your shoe that you're
just trying to scrape off. Andthat's how I felt. But of course
(18:00):
being in that state permanently,day in day out. It does make you
angry, because it's violatingall of your boundaries, when you
put a boundary in it iscompletely disregarded and
dismissed. And anger is there toshow us when our boundaries have
been violated. It's also thereto show us there's big emotions
that are sitting under thesurface when we're hurt. When
(18:20):
we're feeling unseen andunloved. It's showing us when
we're afraid. And I had all ofthat bubbling under the surface
and I could not look at it. Soanger made me feel like I was
doing something. Because if Igot angry, he would pay
attention to me and I felt real.
And that was the only time Ifelt real. Because I had no
(18:45):
interaction from him otherwise.
So I would create drama to getthe outburst to just feel like I
existed just for that moment.
And then I'd be okay. Notexisting again, because I'd feel
at least like I existed for alittle while. And I didn't
really want to exist in thatway. And so then there'd be that
conflict. But I recognize thatthe anger dissipated. And I was
(19:08):
like, Okay, this is interesting.
And then I was able to hear moreclearly my own inner abuser,
that allowed all of this stuffto happen, because whilst my
abuser was bigger than the abuseI was getting from everybody
else. I didn't recognize theirabuse as abuse. Because I was
still the worst person to myselfthe stuff I used to say to
(19:31):
myself, I wouldn't ever dare sayto another human being. Now as
that dropped, and as I startedto respect myself more, all of a
sudden I could see the abusefrom other people because it was
no longer it was just on adifferent level. And I was like
Ah, okay. But then of course Igot more courage and I'd start
(19:55):
calling it out which increasedthe toxicity in my marriage.
edge, because I was starting tocall it out. And I was starting
to go hang on a minute, I don'tknow that this is right, I don't
think that should be treatedlike this. And so again, it was
it was gaining more confidencein understanding that hang on,
maybe I do actually deserve somerespect. Or maybe I do actually
(20:17):
deserve some kindness. Or maybeI do actually deserve somebody
who may be able to see that I'mnot such a horrible human being.
And so that confidence graduallystarted to grow. And then the
way I was treating people waschanging, because of course, I
wasn't just this bowl ofsuppressed anger, and hurt and
abuse. And I look back at a lotof my own resourceful behaviors
(20:44):
back then. And when youunderstand the way that domestic
violence victims actually showout in the world, I was like,
Oh, okay. It took going to apolice station, and somebody
actually saying to me, you're ina domestic violence situation,
for me to actually even put itthat far. I was like, okay,
yeah, I'm in an abusivemarriage, like, I kind of got to
(21:04):
that point. But she said, thisis domestic violence. And I
remember the next day, I got acall from the Salvation Army
domestic violence unit. And Iremember saying to her, I'm not
being hit, there are people outthere much worse off than me.
And she's like, Oh, my God. Andthe number of times through my,
through my healing, I said, atleast I wasn't here. And they're
(21:26):
going you were hit every day,just not physically, it was with
words, it was with actions, itwas verbally. And so it was also
coming out of that and healingall of those wounds that were
very, very deep in my psyche.
And I still pick up the voice inmy head, that Who were you to do
(21:49):
that? I know exactly who thatcame from. I know exactly. Who's
saying that over my shoulder. Inow have the volume control for
it. So it's not that I've gottenrid of that voice. But I
recognize that voice. Who areyou to do that? Okay, I hear
you, I understand that part ofme is trying to keep me safe.
(22:10):
And I'm going to do this anyway.
So I think that a lot of thesereally big belief system that we
have. And I can tell you,because I've spent 10s of 1000s
of dollars, not just oneducation, but on my own healing
sessions, I'm probably over sixfigures these days. Like, I
know, you cannot get rid of allof these belief systems that are
(22:30):
so deeply ingrained in you. Wecan't, I don't know if I will
ever feel 100% worthy, or goodenough. I just don't, I don't
know if that's a possibility.
Maybe it is because I do believethat we can heal from anything.
But those belief systems havebeen so deeply ingrained since
birth. And now 45 have justturned 45. It's so deeply
(22:55):
ingrained in me. I hear thevoice now, though. And I
recognize it as one of thoseinner children, or inner
teenagers, or in a woman who wastold that over and over again,
through words, actions anddeeds. It wasn't just the words,
sometimes it was the actions,the dismissals, the abandonment,
(23:20):
the rejection. And I'm able tosee that hurt in a person and
give them the love that theyneed. And give them the
resources that they need as nowthe grown up in the picture. And
that's the difference the worksgiven me is it hasn't gotten rid
of some of those voices or someof those on results or
behaviors. I'm still onresourceful. At times, it is a
(23:44):
hell of a lot less than I was,you know, even a year ago, two
years ago, five years ago. Butof course, they come up because
I'm human. And I think that'sthe other thing we need to do is
we need to give ourselves gracefor being human. We're not
always going to get it right.
We're not always going to be onour a game. And if we can accept
and love that, then I think itmakes our human experience so
(24:05):
much easier.
Nicole Bellisle (24:08):
So true. Yeah, that that grace piece and the
the inner parenting or reparenting practice that you're
naming here to just help kind ofdraw the parallel to the
business world a bit. You hadframed one of your questions of
like, wow, if like, I'm mybiggest self abuser, right? If
(24:29):
someone was talking to me, likeI'm talking to me, Wow, that and
in the business world, we seethis too. Sometimes I'll ask
people if, if you if your bossif you had a boss that was
speaking to you, as you'respeaking to you, as your inner
micromanager or thatinternalized capitalist who's
(24:50):
telling you to get back to workand that your worth comes from
what you produce externally.
It's most people are like, nolike that would be a toxic
relationship. Would that bossthat would be a harmful cycle of
communication. And I would wantto remove myself from that as
best I could. But I think toyour point, it's, I mean, we're
(25:10):
picking up this, this innertalk, and all of these aspects
of our inner culture, from ourchildhood into our teenage
years. And I love that youhighlighted that. It's not just
verbal, right? It's like ourself talk, we kind of get that
from what we hear our parentssay, or what we hear society
say, but the nonverbalcommunication, of dismissal and
(25:33):
abandonment, or undervaluing,and over prioritizing work way
over our own health, it's, wetake all of that on. So the
Yeah, the dissecting that you'vebeen able to do is so there's a
complex system in there, there'sa living system in there that
(25:55):
you've, you've kind of got inand reprogrammed a bit, but done
that in such a healing way byrewriting how you relate to
yourself how you relate toothers, because it was it was so
cool to hear that piece in yourstory that you actually started
showing up differently in yourrelationships, there was less
anger, and then it's, you know,kind of ripples out from there.
(26:17):
But I want to circle back tothis, this grace piece that you
mentioned, and drop into whatthat looks like on a practical
level, because I know that youtalk a lot about being a messy
human, and that this is part ofthe journey. And I'm curious,
when that self critic shows upfor you, how are you still able
(26:39):
to give yourself grace? What iswhat does that look like in
practice, or in principle?
Unknown (26:48):
Yeah, to go back to again, that that first piece
that you're talking about, youknow, when when you're talking
about, you know how we put thisin business, we can't separate
this out. And so I really justwant to, I guess, put a little
pin in that for people. Youcan't just work on your business
self or just work on yourrelationship self or just work
on yourself in this area of yourlife. It is all inextricably
(27:11):
linked, if you want to change,it's doing that inner work,
which will change every area ofyour life because we can't just
silo out, you know, thephysical, mental, emotional,
spiritual, they're allintermingled. What I recognize
is, the more work I did, insteadof having one knee for work, and
one me for my ex husband, andone me for my children and one
(27:33):
me for these people, and whichwas exhausting and tiring as
hell, and I think a lot ofpeople do it. You know, I'm
picking up those pieces ofmyself, that I've discarded
along the way, or cut off andrepressed and hidden away
because I'm ashamed of them.
I've brought them back into thefold with love. So instead of
(27:54):
being all these differentpeople, I'm now that one. Now,
if you saw me in clinic in asession, I'd be very much the
way I am. Now, if you saw mewith, you know, my partner or
children, I'd be very much theway I am now. It's just that
obviously, people get slightlydifferent facets, depending on
what kind of capacity they'rewith me in. But I'm still with
(28:14):
that one entity. The way I'vebeen able to cultivate that
grace for myself is reallythrough that deep understanding
of human behavior. I startedthat journey through
kinesiology, it was, you know, adoor that opened and led me
through into this whole newworld that I didn't even know
(28:39):
existed of that Mind, BodySpirit connection of the quantum
physics of, you know, all ofthat quantum healing aspect, as
well as understanding the morephysical aspect of why we're
wired this way, the physiologythe psychology of, you know, why
we behave the way we do in theworld. And then I've also done
the archetypal life coaching,which goes to the ancient
(29:04):
archetypes, it's not the unionarchetypes. It's the ones that
were passed on, from theancients, through paintings
through story through mysticism,and the lady I learned that from
did 20 plus year priestessapprenticeship. So she's put it
(29:25):
together in a in an incredibleway. And learning that
archetypal stuff has again,given a depth and a different
layer to the work that I do, andthe work that I've done on
myself because when you'relearning this, you're going
through the process yourself.
(29:45):
You're going through thosehealings yourself as well as
then facilitating it for otherpeople. So I don't obviously do
anything I've not experiencedmyself. And in that healing What
I've recognized is every singlepart of me, that is unresolvable
(30:06):
the axon resourcefully, thatgets into reactivity, those
parts are all just trying tokeep me safe. They're all just
working on old conditioning thatthey thought would keep me safe
and keep me alive till the nextday. And so far, they've done a
(30:26):
really good job of that. But Idon't want to be going back to
my two year old, and asking fortools that I need to get through
life now as my 45 year old self,but she doesn't always realize
that I've grown up, becauseshe's still stuck as her two
year old self. Now, that doesn'tmean that she's trying to
(30:47):
sabotage me, or that she'strying to trip me up or get me
into trouble or you know, any ofthat sort of stuff, there's no
blame in that she's doing thebest she can. She just doesn't
have access to all the toolsthat I've got access to. And so
it's, it's parenting that child,darling, it's okay, I've got
(31:08):
this, I'm the adult You cantrust me, you're safe with me,
I'm gonna keep you safe. And,and having that standard for
myself now, that I will notallow anything in my life that
does not keep me safe, all of asudden means that safety really
is a non issue. And I canhonestly tell my inner children
(31:30):
in a teens that I've got thisbecause I will keep them safe.
Now, if I told them that I couldkeep them safe. And then I went
out and did something, you know,like, I've never dated another
person who was similar to my ex,then they wouldn't trust me. And
guess what would happen? They'darc up like a toddler who
doesn't feel safe. If I didn'trespect them if I didn't respect
(31:54):
myself, and this is why thatwork all starts with the inner
self. Because the more we keepourselves to the values and
standards that we need anddesire in our life. The left
sees inner children need to arcout because they trust that
we've got it. So they're notwarring parts within us. It's
(32:18):
this congruent hole. And I thinkthat's where the grace comes
from, is understanding thatwe're always doing the best we
can. And I know that forcertain, even when I have been
the worst version of myself as amother, I was still doing the
best I could. I was still tryingto protect myself and my
(32:38):
children from the environment wewere living in. Now, did I have
the tools? No, I didn't. My twoyear old was running the show.
And realistically, she shouldn'tbe when I'm in my late 30s. But
I shouldn't be coming down hardon her for doing the best she
could. And so that's where thegrace comes in.
Nicole Bellisle (33:02):
So, so beautifully put, doing the best
we can, yeah, and this, thispiece about trust, and
cultivating that inner thatinner safety. And that inner
sense of trust is so beautiful,because it in what you were
saying it's like it connects youto your action, it connects you
(33:22):
to your choices, and the lifethat the that you then build
from that sequence of choices.
So if you are honoring yourcommitments to yourself, living
by your values, settingboundaries and keeping them
you're you're keeping all ofthose inner children safe, as
you're saying, and I just feellike what becomes possible from
(33:44):
there is is much more limitless.
Because if we're operating fromthat fear and that unsafety we
can't actually see all that'spossible either. So when we when
we cultivate the safety andself, we can take bigger risks,
we can be bolder, we can be morefully expressed, because like
(34:05):
we've got our own back. And Ithink that cultivation, once we
build that in, in ourselves, Isee this in leaders who are
outperforming peers, where if ifthey are operating from that
level of integrity and selftrust that you're talking about,
like that is how they createcultures of safety and trust for
(34:28):
their teams. And these are theorganizations that are now
attracting all of the talentbecause these are the companies
and organizations that are safeto be at and safe to play.
Within you have all of yourinner children kind of cared for
in in these work, cultures ofcare that are starting to pop up
(34:48):
and haven't existed. For allthat long. It's like this is
fairly new that we're seeingthis kind of scale and I'm so
grateful that we are
Unknown (34:57):
it's it's revolutionary and I think, you know, people do
talk about that safety at work.
And I think it's alsounderstanding that we only need
to be showing the bits that wewant to show at work as well.
You know, we don't always wantto bring our whole self to work.
Because it is, after all work,like for me with my job, of
(35:18):
course, I bring my whole self Ihave, you know, there's no other
option really for me. But I canimagine working for somebody
else, there would be bits that Iwould keep just for me, and some
people might see it other peoplemay not, it doesn't mean that I
wouldn't be hold still. And so Ithink it's also having grace and
acceptance for other peoplechoosing which bits are bringing
(35:41):
into the workplace and whichbits are going to be, you know,
fully shined off and fullyexpressed, and also honoring
those bits that they're going,you know what this actually
isn't, it's having full choice,I guess, is the point. And
that's the bit that I think isso vitally important in these
workplaces, you know, what youare safe to bring whatever you
want to bring into thisworkplace. And also, I honor
(36:02):
your choice to show up however,you want to show up and be the
kind of person that, you know,obviously, we expect in this
kind of revolutionary change ofworkplace. And I only say that
having listened to some podcaststhat I mentioned earlier, from
this lady who does work in thisactivism space, and, you know,
(36:26):
they were talking about the factthat not everybody wants to
bring their full self to work.
And I kind of thought, You knowwhat, that's fair enough,
actually, that may not be theirpassion project. So there may
bring that little self. However,if they can show up as their
authentic in that authentic way,then that's just as valuable as
(36:51):
bringing that whole self towork. So I guess I want to just
state that because I think it'sreally important almost to give
people permission, one to betheir whole self, but to that
they don't have to show it inevery single environment in
every single relationship. Andit'd be exhausting to be your
whole self all the time. Youknow, realistically, let's face.
(37:18):
Because also, if we are our truewhole self, then they're going
to see the less results fromparts of us, because that's who
part of our whole self is. Andso again, it's, I guess, giving
a few little parameters to it,because I feel like people need
permission. This is a new gamethat we're playing. And we're
(37:38):
still writing the rules on it.
And so I guess it's also havingthat permission to, you know,
cross out what we put in as arule and go, maybe that just
needs to be a guideline, ormaybe that's just, you know,
maybe that one doesn't work orwhatever it is, it's it's giving
ourselves permission to playwith the idea, so that we can
open up that creativity and findthe structures then that are
(38:01):
able to work best to supportthat creativity.
Nicole Bellisle (38:09):
Yeah, it almost it almost sounds to me like that
journey through creativity andkind of finding, finding those
structures as we walk ourselveshome, to our to our sovereignty
in a way and that permissionthat you're speaking about. And
that choice of, well, maybe Idon't need to show up as my
whole self in all situations,but it's still it's authentic
(38:31):
for me to choose that and to setthat boundary of which pieces
I'm bringing, or how how big myexpression is in this moment.
And that level of, ofsovereignty and self management,
I think is so beautiful. And inand previously, we have been
outsourcing leadership,externally. And we haven't I
(38:54):
don't think we've fully seen thepotential of when we reclaim
that sovereignty and become ourown self leaders in this space
doing doing that inner healingwork and making our own choices
in this way. But it alsorequires us to go full circle in
the conversation, to have theself visibility of what our
(39:15):
gifts are, as well. And so Ithink this is another really
interesting shift right nowwhere robots AI could take over
the things that are more cookiecutter or more machine like as
far as functions, but thoseunique human gifts, I don't
think that goes away. So goingon the journey of cultivating
(39:36):
that and getting people to havethe opportunities to align with
those opportunities and expressthemselves into them, I think
will create a much differentwork landscape than we've seen.
And so I'm curious now thatyou're so we've kind of got like
the full arc of your journeyhere. We went into the dark
(39:58):
night of the soul a little bitwe get to hear Are some of the
practices for inter re parentingand what's possible on the other
side of that, and I'm curiouswhen it comes to how you're
showing up in your gifts nowthat you've cleared out some of
that pattern that you'verewired, a lot of the ways that
you're even relating toyourself, What are those gifts
(40:20):
look like now? And how are thosewanting to shine in the world so
that we can see you in those?
Unknown (40:27):
I think it's, it's just a constant evolution, it's, I
think there are always differentlevels of expansion and growth
to go through. So as much asI've, I've done a lot of that
work. And as I said, Before, Ikind of feel healed from that
past trauma, there will alwaysbe things that pop up, where
I'll be like, Okay, I'll look atthat now. Now I can look at
(40:48):
this, because I've got the spacenow to go, Okay, where do I want
to be? How do I want to beshowing, when it comes to, you
know, that workplace aspect andand those gifts, robots will
never be human. As much aspeople are talking about it, and
integration and blahdy blahdy,blah, they will never be able to
(41:10):
hold a paintbrush and paint fromthe heart the way we do, they
will not be able to write wordson a page, the way a human being
channels their soul throughtheir heart and expresses it on
a page. So there will always belimitations, they will not be
(41:30):
able to speak with tears rollingdown their face the way that
humans can. Because we arefeeling machines, they are not.
And we can try and program thatidea of feeling into them. But
as you as I know, from my past,when I wasn't truly feeling I
was in that robot kind of state,and there are enough people out
(41:53):
there still in that state.
However, as we wake up, and weallow ourselves to express all
those feelings, it is a very,very different landscape. And so
I think especially for me, youknow, as I'm moving forward, it
is tapping more into thatcreativity is allowing that
creative expression out into theworld more, whether that be
through, you know, I started anew podcast a few months ago
(42:14):
that I'm just playing with,again, you know, we'll see where
it goes, I'll see what happens.
There's no expectation on it.
Again, I've got my notes, mysecond book in my drawer, and
who knows when that will comeout. But I just keep adding
notes to it and seeing again,it'll happen when it happens.
It's it's bringing the work toclients from a perspective of
(42:36):
having walked the path. And nowbeing able to look back and help
other people walk that path.
Helping them understand thatyeah, okay, it took me seven
years. But hopefully now I candistill that a lot better for
you to be able to get you to aplace that I'm at a hell of a
(42:59):
lot quicker than I did. And alsoknowing that sometimes it will
take that long. You know, ifwe're not prepared to look at
something, we're not going tolook at it until we're ready.
And so again, having them be,you know, kind of graceful with
themselves to sometimes go youknow what, I'm not ready to look
at that. I don't want to dealwith that yet. Fine. Let's park
(43:22):
it. It's being in full choice.
And I think that's the beautyand the magic. And you know, I
don't know what's coming. Idon't know what's going to
happen in two months, let alonesix, let alone 12. I have a
grand vision of what I want. Butagain, the universe may decide
different.
(43:44):
Right? Right. It's dynamic. Justgotta trust that. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Nicole Bellisle (43:50):
Wow, well, perhaps a beautiful place to
leave listeners of coming backto that choice point as well.
It's a choice what we pick upand when and deciding when it's
right for us. And I want to Iwant to give you the last word
here, if there's anything thatyou're wanting to leave
listeners with, as we wrap uphere, or invite them to if there
(44:11):
are ways that they can learnmore about you and your work.
And yeah, I just so appreciateeverything that we covered in
this beautiful conversation.
Unknown (44:21):
Thank you so much. I think the the thing I want to
leave people with is, you know,I guess the meaning behind that
title of my book. You know, whenI was denying my divinity, and
papering over the facade of mymessiness, trying to pretend
that I had my shit together. Myhuman existence was really
tough. When I bring that divine,messy human into the light, I am
(44:47):
honoring the divine in me, I'malso honoring the messiness and
understanding that it willalways be there. And it's made
my human existence so mucheasier. And so if we can tap
into that side I'd then thatprioritizing of internal truth
of external influence becomeseasier, because we're able to
(45:07):
turn down the noise on theoutside world and tap into that
divine messy self. To see whatfits for us in this moment right
now, before we then move forwardtaking action, it's a slowing
down. It's a quietening. It's alistening to self, rather than a
running forward and hoping tohell that you can just push
(45:27):
through it all. And and I thinkif people can tap into that,
they will start to recognizethat they have all of the
answers they need within them.
Sometimes they just need a bitof perspective in terms of
dusting it off or shaping it orhelping them put it into, I
guess, a package that works forthem. And so if anyone wants to
find out more, they can just goto my website, which is Amanda
(45:50):
kake.com.au. And all my sociallinks are there. So yeah.
Nicole Bellisle (45:58):
Amanda, Kate, this has been wonderful. Thank
you so much for being here,listeners. Thanks for tuning in.
And we'll see you next week.
Unknown (46:05):
Thank you
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com