February 7, 2023 • 45 mins
Leaders today have an opportunity to stop cycles of harm and heal patterns of multigenerational trauma.
Leadership today can be very reactive. Our work cultures often don’t leave much room for us to be human, and so we find ourselves living predominantly in the logic mind, rather than in our physical or emotional bodies.
Greg works at the intersection of leadership and healing. He believes that “to be a leader is to be a vessel of healing.” And this starts with self-healing. Greg works with leaders to heal burnout, anxiety and depression. His approach is rooted in trauma healing and weaves both somatic and mindfulness-based practices.
Inside today’s episode:
- Why healing our trauma makes us better leaders
- Regenerating ourselves after periods of burnout
- Why unresolved trauma is a liability
- To be a leader is to be a vessel of healing
Visit https://www.gregwieting.com/ to download your copy of the 7 Essential Pillars to Heal the Past & Lead the Future (the free tool that Greg mentions inside the episode).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
The way we've been doing workand leadership is deeply broken.
Whether you're healing fromburnout or just looking for a
better way to run your company,you're in the right place. What
is the future of work even looklike? That is a question we get
to answer together. Afterworking with 1000s of executives
and entrepreneurs around theworld. I know that the deepest
leadership issues are deeplyhuman. We've got to heal
(00:32):
ourselves if we want to heal theworld. Welcome to the new self
Podcast where each week I'llhelp you explore topics that
will level up your leadershipand your life. I'm your host,
Nicole Belisle. I'm a leadershipexpert and Reiki master, and I
believe the secret to moreconscious work and leadership is
self healing, grab a seat andget cozy because we're about to
(00:53):
go on a journey.
Hey, leaders, welcome to anotherepisode, I am joined by Greg
Whiting. Greg is an amazinghuman being, as you will soon
see, he works with leaders andentrepreneurs to help them heal
(01:13):
anxiety, depression, burnout,and trauma. And he's doing this
by bringing the worlds ofneuroscience, somatic and
mindfulness based practices intothe leadership space. With the
premise that if we can healourselves, we can heal the
world. Greg has spoken at theInstitute of Noetic Sciences
(01:37):
about energy medicine, he's beenfeatured in elephant journal
daily, home and gay in Americaand has appeared in mantra
magazine and 20. For life. Gregis someone who's really at the
forefront of this intersectionof leadership, spirituality, and
healing. And this, as you know,is the space that we love to
(01:59):
play in here on this podcastlisteners you're in for a treat.
This man has so much wisdom tobring. And I want to open with a
quote that caught my eye. When Ifirst met Greg, when we stop
leaving, from a trauma response,we can break through upper
(02:19):
limits. So our leadership can bea healing force for good. So
that's what's at stake here.
That's what's possible when weget into the space of healing
and leadership. Stay tuned. Thisepisode is so profound. I know
you're going to take a lot outof it. Greg, thanks so much for
being on the podcast today. I'mdelighted to have you here.
(02:41):
Yeah, I'm really happy to behere in a column. Thank you.
I know there's a lot of groundthat that we can cover today
based on your your experienceand your expertise. But I'd love
to start by getting all of youin the room and invite your
story of, of leadership and andwhat that has been like for you.
(03:03):
Sure. Yeah. Well, you know,today I work with leaders to
really address the trauma thatis beneath anxiety, depression,
chronic pain, burnout,emptiness. And the work I shares
really, what I have T stout frommy own healing path. I used to
live in really debilitatingchronic pain that was amplified
(03:26):
from burnout in leadershiproles. In my early career, I
worked in the nonprofit world,and I was very much mission
driven. I was made a purpose.
And I really lost myself alongthe way. You know, there was
great wins, we're movinglegislation through and, you
know, there's a lot tocelebrate, but I have lost
(03:48):
myself and I felt, you know,when I've lost myself, there
really were no wins. And thatreally had me start to examine,
okay, what am I doing here? Andis this is this the way and
really understanding that a lotof unresolved trauma was was
driving my leadership, thispedal to the metal mindset, this
(04:08):
hustling for my own worth, and,you know, I think I came to
healing while I was doing thiscost payoff analysis. All right,
there's some payoff to thisdrive. But I think it's starting
to cost more than it's payingoff. And so that started kind of
a renegotiation to betterunderstand, you know, who I want
(04:31):
to be and what I want to bringto the table in terms of my
leadership. And so that kickstarted. Pretty amazing journey
of healing.
I resonate with that so much,Greg, especially the the
physical stopping points of thatcan show up in burnout. And I
(04:56):
want to dive into that a littlebit deeper into the symptom.
terms of, of your burnout, thesymptoms of kind of showing up
in in that old paradigm help usunderstand and paint the picture
of what that not only what thatlooks like for you as a person,
but how is that impacting? Howyou were showing up at work?
(05:19):
And, and maybe even your team?
Was it? Was that part of thisequation for you?
For sure. You know, it became,it was like I was just going
through the motions, right justto get things done. So that that
critical element of likecentering one's humanity was
completely lacking. Like, Ididn't even know what that was
(05:42):
right? I was just living in kindof complete survival just to get
through the day to get through,especially working in the
nonprofit world, which was notat least how this organization
was run was not sustainable.
Right. People were overworked,underpaid, and yeah, it just
lacked, for me, especially as aleader. I mean, if I was running
(06:04):
around with, you know, my headcut off, there was just no
capacity to foster psychologicalsafety interest or any sense of
stability, right? It was morejust putting out fires and
putting out fires is, isexhausting, and you're bound to
get burned?
(06:24):
Absolutely, absolutely. I'mhearing and what you're what
you're saying is, well, there'sthere's almost this quality of
of your inner culture, matchingthe outer culture that that
seems to show up in thesecontexts. And I can't help but
think about how, howenergetically inefficient that
actually is of human potentialand, and the impact that I
(06:49):
believe our hearts really wantto make. But when we're showing
up in that way, in that in thatstate of, of reactivity, all the
time, it's, you're stuck in thatshort term view, there's there's
very little long term view. Andin the sustainability world,
especially where a lot of wherea lot of my background is that
(07:12):
is problematic for so manyreasons. So I want to ask you,
because I think this is a thisis a, an awakening that that
many folks are having of hittingthat point of enough is enough,
I can't go on like this, my bodywon't even let me anymore. Or
maybe my family won't let mebecause that's falling apart. So
(07:34):
what was your point of noreturn? Or your point of I know,
this has to change? And what didyou do once you realized that?
You know, there was someserendipity, my there was a
bunch of layoffs at thenonprofit I was working for. And
so I kind of had an opportunityto either pursue other work in
(07:58):
that realm, you know, while andwhile I was working those four
years in this nonprofit, I wasalso so that was when I was
starting to develop a healingpractice. But you know, while
you're just in the thick of it,the healing practices, like just
helping you tread water, right?
It's just healthy, you know. Andwhen I was laid off, I just
(08:18):
realized I had a really profoundopportunity to just deepen into
my practices. And I was youngenough, and it was just the
right time in my life that Imade a big leap. And I moved to
India for eight months, and Ijust took a sabbatical, and I
immersed myself into meditationand healing. That was the type
(08:38):
of reset I needed. And when Icame back, eight months later,
you know, the phone was ringing,and I had other jobs because
working through this nonprofitto help get this legislation
passed, I ended up working on acongressional campaign. So then
I was just in the, the belly ofthe beast in terms of just the
gnarly political maneuveringstight, you know, which is very
(09:01):
divisive, right? And yeah, tospeak into just the imprints of
trauma, it's like, trauma willhave us, like, fragmented and
split, right. And when we're nowno longer established in our
wholeness, it's very difficultfor us to then see wholeness in
the world, right. And especiallyfor change makers and purpose
(09:21):
driven leaders. I think that'sour job is to see the
possibility of wholeness in theworld, and then to claim it. And
that becomes nearly a missionimpossible when we are so
fractured inside ourselves. Andso that was the turning point.
When I had that layoff. It'slike, do I keep trying to figure
(09:42):
it out in the system? Or do Ineed to maybe just take a pause
and do some more inner healing,and I get it, not everyone has
that opportunity. But I was itwas early enough in my career
that I was able to just takethat an extended pause, but you
know, Most of the folks I workwith now are doing healing work
while they're also runningcompanies and, you know, being
(10:04):
householders and raisingfamilies and, you know, doing
the 1001 things every day. Andso yeah, we can start to change
the tide and become moreestablished in our presence and,
and redefine who we are asleaders.
(10:24):
I love how you're framing thisrole that that leaders can play
and that you are able to, toreally step out and create the
space and the stillness foryourself. Because I think, as,
as you mentioned, if we'reapplying some of these
practices, and I see this insome of the more mindful
(10:47):
literate leaders, it's almostlike applying that wisdom to the
old model. And it like you said,it just gets us through, it
allows us to keep showing up.
But we're still existing withina very broken system and a very
broken culture that at times,especially if it's a toxic work
environment, is is perpetuatingor triggering some of that
(11:11):
trauma. So to actually giveyourself the space to let that
leave the system. And settle isI mean, not everyone can do it,
like you said, but I the imagethat came to mind, as you were
speaking was the sediment in apond or in a river settling,
right. And as a leader, you cannot only be reconnected to
(11:34):
yourself and have those thosesystems of self awareness,
purpose come back online, but tosee that big picture, like
you're mentioning, so I just Icommend you for actually getting
outside of the system longenough to to regenerate a bit.
And I'm curious about what whatthat experience was, was it
(11:57):
difficult to let go of some ofthose, those patterned responses
that you had maybe been livingin previously? What What was
that process like for you?
Yeah, I think healing is firstbecoming aware of the pattern
responses. And then, again,continuing that cost payoff
(12:19):
analysis, because some of thoseresponses are just just
ingrained in us, right. So we'rejust going to default to them.
And so every time we default toan old response is an
opportunity to gather some moredata points to understand.
Where's that response comingfrom? Why have I depended upon
it? Is it necessary now? And isthere a different choice
(12:40):
available, right, and a lot oftimes, the old response will
come back on, but each time weforget, the new possibility is
an opportunity to remember it.
So I think there is a tensionthat is inherent within growth
within Healing Withintransformation, you know, I
think we start to kind of teaseout the pain or the struggle
(13:01):
that we're motivated to get awayfrom, and then set our sights on
what are we inspired to movetowards, right, what is more
aspirational. And, you know,that's how we can start to
develop new narratives, newbehaviors, and beliefs that are
organized around thatpossibility. And even I haven't
even thought about these yearsand the nonprofit for a while,
(13:23):
just so in this conversation,I'm just reflecting before that
layoff, I was making a lot ofchanges, you know, the culture
was often people getting intothe office at like 10, or 11am.
And then working untilsometimes, like 11pm, and I
started to decide in a newposition, I'm going to work 40
hour work weeks, which, youknow, literally, you know, and
(13:44):
it was such a tight knitcommunity, but that was going
against the culture, right. Andso this tight knit community,
many who are my friends, thatstarted to rub a lot of people
the wrong way. And instead of meshowing up at 10, or 11am, I'd
show up at 8am, and leave, youknow, just a few hours after
other folks are starting. And soit was really hard to make these
(14:06):
changes within that structure.
And I'm just, I'm reallyappreciating that I, you know, I
think sometimes it's likeputting a stake in the ground,
and what are these nonnegotiables? And what are these
new boundaries? And, you know, Ithink so much of healing is
better understanding what ourneeds are, and then finding how
(14:28):
to articulate those needs anunderstanding that there are
certain places where we're notgoing to get our needs met, and
are we willing to stick around?
Or are we going to create a newenvironment where you know, that
can be better matched and thatwe can better provide and
support the needs of others? Youknow, and I think that's, for
me, healing is really anopportunity to either perpetuate
(14:49):
cycles of harm and generationaltrauma or we have a unique
opportunity to heal thosepatterns. So, for me, I think
leader Worship is, you know, tobe a leader is to be a vessel of
healing. And I think that's aprivilege and a great
responsibility.
I couldn't agree more that'sresonating through my system so
(15:12):
deeply to hear you frame it thatway. I think that's part of what
makes being a leader. Today,such a fascinating space to be
in. And it does feel bigger thanus in that way of this does feel
like multi generational trauma,we're halting patterns that have
(15:32):
had so much momentum forhundreds of yours. Now, if we
look at the cultural roots ofcolonialism, capitalism, it's,
it's hard to go against thegrain. And so when you were
describing, setting thatboundary, and moving away from
the the cultural norm, thecultural momentum, if you will,
(15:56):
of, of the team that you're apart of, I think one thing that
you highlighted that feelsreally important was yes, you're
saying, you're saying no, this,this doesn't work for me. But
this aspirational thing overhere does. And so let me move
away from what isn't working,but also remembering that we're
(16:17):
moving towards something too,because it can, it can feel
jarring, or maybe we feel badfor setting those boundaries and
saying no, but there's alsosomething we're building here
in, in the healing. And so yeah,I guess I want to I want to hear
(16:38):
more about this connection thatyou're seeing between healing
and and leadership, you've at ahigh level, you've painted such
a beautiful vision, but whatwhat's possible as leaders when
we do heal, what what shifts inin the outer impact or outcomes
(17:00):
that we're able to create?
Yeah, I think, yeah, leadershipthrough a trauma informed lens
is a deep sensitivity to thehuman experience, right, that I
think so many of these systemsand structures and organizations
are really overriding the humanexperience, right? We're
demanding that folks over Yeah,override just their own
(17:24):
humanity, where, you know, it'snatural for us to flip our lid,
which is us losing access to ourupper brain, and defaulting to
fight flight freeze, or appease,which is more of our survival
brain. And if we understood thisin roles of leadership, first,
we'd understand when we've lostaccess to logic and reason, and
(17:46):
take care of ourselves. So wecan come back online, and not,
you know, be leading from atrauma response. But then we can
also recognize that among thosewho are leading, right, and then
offer the type of supportnecessary to help people regain
access to their upper brain. Andso it's, it's creating space to
(18:07):
pause. It's inviting some ofthis mindfulness and I think
mindfulness is our capacity tobe with ourselves and to be with
what is without reacting to whatis without fighting against what
is noticing everything we pileon top of what is so the
judgments or the stories that weassigned to what is so removing
(18:28):
the stories or removing thejudgments so we can just be with
what is which creates just morespace for our humanity. You
know, I have a lot of leaders Iwork with perfectionism is a big
thing, that a lot of folks thinkthat perfectionism is their
strength, right? But, you know,perfect isn't possible, perfect,
(18:49):
often fueled by a whole lot offear and a whole lot of shame,
you know, in early development,if we aren't getting our basic
needs met reliably andconsistently, that can signal
life or death. And that sets upyou know, an unconscious cycle
of hyper vigilance where we thenit's encoded in us that we need
(19:12):
to take care of everything to beokay. So this patterning that is
then fueling this perfectionismis also this lone wolf
mentality, which, you know,really creates a divide between
us and our capacity to be inrelationship with others in a
way that is, you know, fosteringTrust and Safety and connection.
(19:35):
So I think so much a leadershipis reclaiming that, that
relational field, where we canreside in a sense of trust and
safety and support. You know, somuch of trauma is imprinted upon
us. When we feel isolated andalone and we're lacking support.
And I think we are seeing a lotof the world is feeding off of
(19:59):
that division and Thatalienation and that isolation
within our teams. And so peopleare, you know, so in early
development when we're notgetting our needs met, we learn
early on to either hide orperform parts of ourselves. And
I think we see that in our adultlives and in our roles of
leadership. You know, we'reperforming posturing parts of
(20:22):
ourselves, hiding parts ofourselves. And I think there's
an unburdening that happens inhealing, where we can actually
just be human. And, you know,part of being human as being
messy. And I think also, when westart to dissolve the fear and
the shame, it actually createsmore space for us to be
accountable for when we'remessy, because we're all gonna
(20:43):
make mistakes. But how can weactually, I think some of the
greatest healing happens fromthe relational repair. So when
we make a mistake, you know, howcan we center everyone's
humanity to, to create healingand foster more connection? So
how can conflict even be abridge to more connection, more
(21:03):
cohesion? More unity?
Like, that's so, so important.
There's so many threads that Iwant to pull on in that, you
know, so I went, Oh, mygoodness, no, it's I mean, it's,
it's really remarkable. I do seethe perfectionist leader playing
out quite a bit where there isthat posturing, that masking
(21:25):
presenting as feeling like youhave to get it right. Or be
right, and it's, there'ssomething so relaxing in what
you said, of oh, we do, we doget to be human, we do get to
have that loving relationship,even within ourselves. And let
go of that fear, let go of thatshame. And that that actually
(21:49):
creates space. So I'm, in realtime, it's sinking in on a
deeper level for me that healingcreates space. And there's so
much that is possible in thespace around not only vision and
connecting the purpose, but butthis this coherence that you're
talking about. And I'm remindedof the HeartMath Institute, they
(22:09):
have this this heart ratevariability monitor, and I'm
just imagining how many teamsout there are, are going around
with very little coherencebetween these, these three
centers of intellect in thebody, right the mind, the heart,
the gut. And when that is, isdysregulated, when the nervous
(22:33):
system is dysregulated, so muchgoes out the window as far as
our human relating potential,our decision making. And then if
we're trapped in that fear, andpinching off our bigger selves,
if you will, we're showing up ina fragmented state, which is a
(22:53):
word you used earlier, and Ican't help but feel like
sometimes when I look at the theglobal, the global stage, if you
will, of how things are playingout. We're a bunch of hurt
traumatized children, trying tosave the world, but bumping into
(23:13):
these things left and right. Andit's yeah, I just I'm really,
I'm really appreciating yourframe and how, how much it feels
like a critical path to, toactually creating the impact
that that our Earth and our ourcollective health is meeting. So
(23:35):
I don't see how we get therewithout this, to just Yeah,
blown away by how you're, howyou're thinking about this.
And, you know, it's, for me, I'mjust seeing Yeah, what's playing
out on the world stage is reallya crisis in leadership, which
can feel like, you know, the endof the world, it can feel like
(23:57):
doomsday. And yet, as cliche asit sounds, we need to see it to
heal it. Right. So everythingthat's being displayed on the
world stage, is now for all eyesto see. And when all eyes can
see, it gives us an opportunityto question if this is what we
want. And if it's not what wewant, what do we want? And then
(24:19):
we can start to explore well,how do we get there? Right? And
I think healing provides aunique opportunity. Like I love
the Yeah, talking aboutcoherence. I love heart maths
work. And, yeah, the sense ofheart brain rhythms being
syncopated, right, so we are inthis unified state of resonance,
and I love the imagery of thebody and the mind and the spirit
(24:42):
as a symphony orchestra. So whenwe're experiencing health, all
the different parts of us are inconstant communication from the
cells to the organs to thehormones to the
neurotransmitters to emotions,beliefs, you know, everything.
And yeah, when the nervoussystem gets short circuited,
then all of a sudden thatcommunication starts to break
(25:03):
up, and we start to createnoise. And that noise is our
disease, our illness, that's ourconflict. That's our struggle.
That's our inability tounderstand what we need
communicate our needs to get ourneeds met. And healing is just
breaking up the noise. It's areturn to what in chiropractic
was coined as innate wisdom. Sodecades ago, the term innate
(25:27):
wisdom, you know, if we get apaper cut, there is some healing
mechanism that is inside of usthat orchestrates you know,
healing the paper cuts, sendingthe platelets and the proteins
and orchestrating all of thesebiochemical transmissions. So
healing is just a return to ourinnate wisdom, our inborn,
innate and natural capacity toheal. It's not so much about
(25:51):
trying to figure out the traumaand the wounding, it's not about
trying to fix it, becauseactually, nothing is really
broken, things are maybe out ofbalance, but they're not broken.
There's just these maladaptations to stress. But the
more we connect to our innatewisdom, then the more we start
to renegotiate those mountadaptations, and come back to
(26:13):
that symphony orchestra that weare, and there's a musicality of
being that is just inherentwithin us. And having
experienced that myself, youknow, I'm three inches taller
than I was 25 years ago, thisunraveling this severe curve,
and my spine, you know, I'm nolonger struggling with chronic
pain, anxiety, depression, whichwas all organized around
(26:34):
developmental trauma. Seeingkind of that crisis state turn
into opportunity within my ownbody, mind, spirit, I, I just
know that that's possible. Andso I hold that vision for the
collective. And so I think asleaders, it's really important
for us to hold a cohesive visionof possibility, excuse me,
(26:57):
because I think trauma, traumahelp breaks up a unified,
cohesive narrative or throughline for our lives, right, it
creates these distortions andthese fragmentations. So I think
as leaders, it's imperative thatwe hold a through line of
clarity of vision for thefuture. And that becomes our
(27:19):
why. And that becomes agenerative force that we
continue to reference back to.
And that's kind of where we kindof are holding out the light or
the torch. And that's no easytask. But the more we we find
that within ourselves, the themore, the more able we are to
hold that for others.
(27:42):
Yeah, I've, I've come to thinkof leadership, as a sacred
practice, almost as sacred asmeditation, yoga and thinking
about it, in the way that you'redescribing it, where we're
trauma, and these stories arethese these dramas of our lives
can can interrupt the cohesion.
That's such a helpful, visual,and what gives me hope, in what
(28:07):
you're saying, as well is thattrauma isn't bad, it's it, it
exists, and we get to be withit. And we get to metabolize it,
if you will. But we're notbroken, we're not we're not a
thing to fix. And when weactually get to that
(28:28):
spaciousness that you'redescribing, it sounds like that
getting to this innate wisdom isalmost like this energy PS or
this inner compass that justneeds to be dusted off in a way
and I can't help but think ofhow, how water will always find
the path of least resistance,right? It's like, there's
(28:50):
something in us that alreadyknows how to get us there. And
if we can declutter some of thatnoise, as you're saying, and
might sound cliche, but sort ofmove towards that light traveled
down the path of leastresistance that that there is
actually more coherence possiblefor all of us. And so yeah,
(29:11):
again, loving, loving how you'reframing a lot of this and I want
to get I want to get practicalfor a moment, in the clear in
the practices that you've found.
Helpful for clearing this spacefor doing the decluttering for
(29:32):
reducing the noise. Whatpractices in within your sacred
practice of leadership, are youfinding to be most effective?
Yeah, and just to kind ofreiterate, yeah, I think so for
me, excuse me, my journey andreturning to wholeness gives me
the capacity to see wholeness inthe world. Right. And I think
(29:53):
that becomes the sacred practicefor us to continue to scan for
wholeness because negativitybias The brain is always going
to default and look for dangerand what's wrong and what's bad.
And it's our job as leaders tohave an awareness of what could
go wrong, but not energize thatwe are energizing what could go
right, right. And so yeah, thepractices that have been, you
(30:18):
know, part and parcel of my ownhealing, and that I share with
all of you know, the leadersthat I work with my students and
my clients, I overlay trauma,excuse me, I have a tickle in my
throat today. No worries. So Ioverlay trauma and neuroscience
with somatic and mindfulnessbased practices and energy
(30:38):
medicine, which is a mouthful,so I'll break all that down a
little bit, please do. You know,we've talked about nervous
system regulation as a baselinefor creating stability and
presence, right, it's like aseaplane that lands on water
kind of bounces up, and thenlands again bounces up. So we're
training the nervous system tofinally land. And that's where
(31:01):
we can derive safety. And safetyis necessary in terms of
neuroplasticity, our ability torewire the brain, you know, our
imagination literally createsthe structure of our brain, and
then the structure of our livesand the structure of the world.
When we've got trauma on thebrain, then the structure of our
brain is organized around dangeraround hyper vigilance around
(31:24):
separation and isolation. Soonce we locate safety, we can
start to generate new neuralpathways of possibility and
cohesion and connection. And sothat is a practice, right? So
every day, I have a choice. AndI can catch when my brain is
scanning and defaulting todanger to what's bad and what's
(31:45):
wrong. And then it's like,alright, is that the only truth?
Let me scan for what else couldbe true? Or what would I like to
be true? And what are thepractical steps I can take in
alignment with that, right, sonot believing everything we
think, and then realizing thatthere's a power to thought so we
(32:05):
can choose to think somethingdifferent. And so that's like,
the mindfulness piece is reallythe necessary mind training to
reorient from pain topossibility. And I get it,
sometimes we're in the trenchesof our wounding and our trauma,
and in our pain, and it's reallyhard to set our sights on the
horizon of possibility. And sothat's that's the work though,
(32:29):
right? We and if we can't seethat horizon of possibility,
once we want the horizon ofpossibility to feel like, right,
so connecting to a vibrationallevel, so a lot of folks will
come to me and they don't knowwhat they want, or what they
desire. So it's like, well, whatwould you like it to feel like?
And let's start by cultivatingthat vibration, because the more
(32:51):
we actually live in that feelingstate in this moment? Well, it's
actually true, and it's here,and it's now. And that's, that's
power, right, then we haveliterally shifted, you know,
our, our heart brain rhythms toa more coherent state that is
helping us live in thevibrational patterning of that,
(33:12):
which we want. And so I overlaythe, the somatic piece to
because like a bird that fliesinto a window that drops to the
ground, you think the bird isdead, but it's just in shock,
right? And how many of us are inshock with trauma patterns that
we have dissociated, and we'vecut off from parts of ourselves,
(33:32):
so we're living from the neckup, right? And when we have when
we lack the capacity to feelourselves, we lose presence and
agency, right? And so, withoutagency, well, we're going to
probably feel pretty stuck.
Like, and that's, that'sproblematic. So how do we thaw
out that freeze response? Andhow do we come back into being
(33:53):
able to feel ourselves? And soworking with somatically
oriented practices to do justthat? And the trauma and
neuroscience roadmap is really,you know, I felt for me, I was
going to healers in therapy foryears. And I knew I was on the
right track. I was starting tofeel some shifts, but I still
didn't really know where I wasor where I was going, you know,
(34:15):
so I felt like I was kind oftraveling blindfolded. So I
provide to everyone I work with,with a roadmap that has the
seven Prisma pillars, whichreally mapped kind of this
journey from pain to purpose.
And I love the idea of just howdo we mind the goal of
unresolved trauma so we canderive more meaning and
significance in our lives. And,you know, purpose is a big piece
(34:39):
of resilience, right? Without asense of purpose. It's really
hard to cultivate resilience.
And so redefining purpose asintrinsically motivated. So it's
not about you know, getting thenext award or the next
recognition or the next outer,you know, marker of success.
It's more about who we are andwhat brings us to life, and
really how a quality of presenceand an emanation of being can be
(35:04):
our purpose. So it's not so muchwhat we do, but who we are. And
so that's why I think who we arereally informs how we lead. So
overlaying all that with energymedicine, which I was introduced
to energy medicine, way backwhen I was, you know, in
debilitating chronic pain withmy scoliosis, I met a massage
therapist who offered me amassage. And I did not want a
(35:27):
massage, because just physicaltouch was too painful. And so
she introduced me to energymedicine, which was completely
foreign to me, I was living awhole different world. And I
realized within moments that Ifound something I didn't even
know I was looking for, it wasas if I like lifted up and out
of my pain body, which untilthat point, my pain body, my
(35:48):
trauma, my drama was all I knew,right. And so I got to actually
taste, get a taste of who I amoutside of my pain, which was
remarkable. So energy medicinereally helps us heal a lot of
the pain and the wounding thatwe can't think or talk our way
through, we get to bypass thebrain, and helps to connect us
to that innate wisdom break upthat noise. So that Symphony
(36:12):
Orchestra comes back online, youknow, more practically speaking,
it's helping to calm thecardiovascular system, regulate
the nervous system, strengthenimmune function. So again, it's
lending itself to that state ofcoherence that the Heart Math,
you know, does such a good jobarticulating, and actually
monitoring. And so I findpairing the energy medicine with
(36:36):
the Cymatics. And themindfulness and the trauma and
the neuroscience, really createa healing path that is
accessible for folks, I'm reallycommitted to making healing,
practical, and I want to reallydemocratize it. So people don't
have to go get a PhD or spenddecades or years in therapy,
they can actually get practicaltools to heal themselves. And
(36:59):
I'd like to demystify it too. SoI don't heal people, I don't
have some power, that I holdover people to heal them, I've
share a lot of tools that havehelped me heal myself. And over
the last 25 years, I've reverseengineered so other folks can
learn those tools and healthemselves. And I think when we
heal ourselves, we heal theworld. And if we're in the world
(37:23):
of social impact, if we'remission driven, I think that's,
you know, our humanity is ourgreatest asset
is speaking of Symphony, it'shearing you speak, it's, I mean,
I'm sitting in the symphony ofresonance with what with what
(37:44):
you're sharing, and reallyhearing how you're practicing on
on all three of those levels ofmind, body, and soul or in the
energetic realm. And I love thatyou found a way to bring energy
healing into it. Because Ithink, whether leaders realize
it or not, they're energymanagers on some level, managing
(38:07):
their own energy managing theenergy of their team. And so to
to have this, this layeredapproach this multi dimensional
approach to practice feels sopowerful. And yeah, I get
excited. I get excited for morepeople to try this on. And I
(38:31):
think it's becoming moremainstream. And I want to ask as
well, if someone's just gettingstarted, or if this is a new
world, tip for them, like it wasfor you when you went to that
massage, and first, wereintroduced to energy healing,
where can people get started inbeginning to heal themselves so
(38:52):
that they can heal the world? Asyou said,
Yeah, I think there's noprerequisites for healing. So I
think it's just start whereyou're at, you know, and so,
follow the breadcrumbs on yourpath. You know, for me, I think
before I was introduced energymedicine, I had been reading
some books on mindfulness andsome Eckhart Tolle and, you
(39:13):
know, spending time in natureand listening to music were like
my bread crumbs that werehelping me get a taste of like
my wholeness and myself aconnection to myself and my
healing capacity. But yeah, Ihave a download a free download
that outlines the seven Prismapillars and gives prompts and
give some mindset mantras tojust help people kind of
(39:36):
reorient to these logical stepson a healing path. And yeah,
this day and age, well, my workis all online. So I have you
know, I'm working with folks allover the country. So I think
healing is just never been moreaccessible than it is now. And I
think what's really important isfinding the people that you
(39:57):
resonate with, I mean, so yes,it's important to have
modalities and treatments thatare effective. And that work,
you know, proven systems just asimportant is to partner with,
you know, the people that youcan have a resonance with,
there's just a lot of researcharound the therapeutic benefit
of the right relationship.
Right. And so, so much of whatwe're talking about is this
(40:21):
fragmentation within us and thisfragmentation relationally, this
disconnect, so much of thetherapeutic relationship that
you have with a healer, ateacher, a mentor, a therapist,
becomes a learning laboratoryfor how do we repair our
connection to you know, others?
(40:43):
You know, I think healing isboth our relationship from
ourselves to ourselves, and thenour relationship to others.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad tohear that there are some
resources that listeners can gograb, that sounds amazing. And I
appreciate what you're alludingto here around each person's
(41:06):
path can look different likethat our path to healing can be
as diverse as we are, andfollowing those breadcrumbs
honoring that, that innatewisdom to help guide you towards
what's right for you. And beingin that right relationship.
This, this move from that thatsort of assembly line approach
(41:31):
to healing our solution movingfrom that to this more
customized path. There are somany patterns that I think we
are shifting away from andmoving into something else. And
I appreciate how you've,throughout this conversation,
illuminated a lot of thoseparadigm level shifts in what's
(41:52):
possible, and I want to I wantto end by asking, what what is
the better world that your heartknows is possible? And what is
the impact that you're reallywanting to, to see in the world
so that we can all add ourintention as listeners to that?
(42:12):
Yeah, I love that. You know, Ithink authenticity, you know,
just people feeling, noreservation in being themselves,
because I think we each havesuch a valuable contribution to
this world, just through livinginto our own hearts song. And
(42:35):
that is how we then harmonizewith the whole, right, so I'm
just seeing a return towholeness. So, again, back to
kind of tying up the wholeconversation, what may seem
broken in the world, what mayseem like what is just the
shattering of what we've knownin the world is really moving us
(42:58):
closer to a more unified fieldof intelligence, and just this,
the Symphony Orchestra ofhumanity. And, and I see that
more and more, even when we'reseeing socially, politically,
economically, more and moreforces that are working against
humanity. I think that's justactually just helping to
(43:19):
strengthen and galvanize the,the human spirit and the
resilience that is inherentwithin each of us. And so, yeah,
that piece around purpose, Ithink, what I'll leave it off as
it's like, you know, dharma islike this are our life path, our
life purpose. It's like this astar in a constellation. It's
(43:44):
like knowing our place in thecosmic order. And that star in a
constellation just gets to beitself. It's not trying to be
anything, it's not, it's nottrying to be another star. And
it doesn't have to do anything,it just gets to shine. Right?
And I think healing helps usjust rest in our humanity, rest
(44:05):
in our heart, song, and, andshine. And I think that is
possible. And I think the moreeach of us as individuals comes
online, in our ownconstellation, it just starts to
shed light on the otherconstellations in the sky.
I can think of no better placeto end this incredible
(44:27):
conversation than with thatmetaphor. Thank you for leaving
us with that visual. And we'llwe'll drop all of the links for
the listeners on where you canfind Greg connect with his work,
download the free resource thathe mentioned. Greg, thank you so
much for sharing all of thesedeep, deep nuggets of wisdom. It
(44:50):
was such a pleasure to be inthis conversation with you.
Thanks, Nicole. My pleasure.
Have a beautiful day.
The inner work is often thehardest one Right, but it is the
work required for lasting changeand healthier future for us all.
If you found the show valuable,please leave a review and
subscribe. You can also take adeeper dive with me at Nicole
(45:10):
bellisle.com. Thanks again forbeing here and showing up for
your new self. Your future selfis certainly thank you
The way we've been doing workand leadership is deeply broken.
Whether you're healing fromburnout or just looking for a
better way to run your company,you're in the right place. What
is the future of work even looklike? That is a question we get
to answer together. Afterworking with 1000s of executives
and entrepreneurs around theworld. I know that the deepest
leadership issues are deeplyhuman. We've got to heal
(00:32):
ourselves if we want to heal theworld. Welcome to the new self
Podcast where each week I'llhelp you explore topics that
will level up your leadershipand your life. I'm your host,
Nicole Belisle. I'm a leadershipexpert and Reiki master, and I
believe the secret to moreconscious work and leadership is
self healing, grab a seat andget cozy because we're about to
(00:53):
go on a journey.
Hey, leaders, welcome to anotherepisode, I am joined by Greg
Whiting. Greg is an amazinghuman being, as you will soon
see, he works with leaders andentrepreneurs to help them heal
(01:13):
anxiety, depression, burnout,and trauma. And he's doing this
by bringing the worlds ofneuroscience, somatic and
mindfulness based practices intothe leadership space. With the
premise that if we can healourselves, we can heal the
world. Greg has spoken at theInstitute of Noetic Sciences
(01:37):
about energy medicine, he's beenfeatured in elephant journal
daily, home and gay in Americaand has appeared in mantra
magazine and 20. For life. Gregis someone who's really at the
forefront of this intersectionof leadership, spirituality, and
healing. And this, as you know,is the space that we love to
(01:59):
play in here on this podcastlisteners you're in for a treat.
This man has so much wisdom tobring. And I want to open with a
quote that caught my eye. When Ifirst met Greg, when we stop
leaving, from a trauma response,we can break through upper
(02:19):
limits. So our leadership can bea healing force for good. So
that's what's at stake here.
That's what's possible when weget into the space of healing
and leadership. Stay tuned. Thisepisode is so profound. I know
you're going to take a lot outof it. Greg, thanks so much for
being on the podcast today. I'mdelighted to have you here.
(02:41):
Yeah, I'm really happy to behere in a column. Thank you.
I know there's a lot of groundthat that we can cover today
based on your your experienceand your expertise. But I'd love
to start by getting all of youin the room and invite your
story of, of leadership and andwhat that has been like for you.
(03:03):
Sure. Yeah. Well, you know,today I work with leaders to
really address the trauma thatis beneath anxiety, depression,
chronic pain, burnout,emptiness. And the work I shares
really, what I have T stout frommy own healing path. I used to
live in really debilitatingchronic pain that was amplified
(03:26):
from burnout in leadershiproles. In my early career, I
worked in the nonprofit world,and I was very much mission
driven. I was made a purpose.
And I really lost myself alongthe way. You know, there was
great wins, we're movinglegislation through and, you
know, there's a lot tocelebrate, but I have lost
(03:48):
myself and I felt, you know,when I've lost myself, there
really were no wins. And thatreally had me start to examine,
okay, what am I doing here? Andis this is this the way and
really understanding that a lotof unresolved trauma was was
driving my leadership, thispedal to the metal mindset, this
(04:08):
hustling for my own worth, and,you know, I think I came to
healing while I was doing thiscost payoff analysis. All right,
there's some payoff to thisdrive. But I think it's starting
to cost more than it's payingoff. And so that started kind of
a renegotiation to betterunderstand, you know, who I want
(04:31):
to be and what I want to bringto the table in terms of my
leadership. And so that kickstarted. Pretty amazing journey
of healing.
I resonate with that so much,Greg, especially the the
physical stopping points of thatcan show up in burnout. And I
(04:56):
want to dive into that a littlebit deeper into the symptom.
terms of, of your burnout, thesymptoms of kind of showing up
in in that old paradigm help usunderstand and paint the picture
of what that not only what thatlooks like for you as a person,
but how is that impacting? Howyou were showing up at work?
(05:19):
And, and maybe even your team?
Was it? Was that part of thisequation for you?
For sure. You know, it became,it was like I was just going
through the motions, right justto get things done. So that that
critical element of likecentering one's humanity was
completely lacking. Like, Ididn't even know what that was
(05:42):
right? I was just living in kindof complete survival just to get
through the day to get through,especially working in the
nonprofit world, which was notat least how this organization
was run was not sustainable.
Right. People were overworked,underpaid, and yeah, it just
lacked, for me, especially as aleader. I mean, if I was running
(06:04):
around with, you know, my headcut off, there was just no
capacity to foster psychologicalsafety interest or any sense of
stability, right? It was morejust putting out fires and
putting out fires is, isexhausting, and you're bound to
get burned?
(06:24):
Absolutely, absolutely. I'mhearing and what you're what
you're saying is, well, there'sthere's almost this quality of
of your inner culture, matchingthe outer culture that that
seems to show up in thesecontexts. And I can't help but
think about how, howenergetically inefficient that
actually is of human potentialand, and the impact that I
(06:49):
believe our hearts really wantto make. But when we're showing
up in that way, in that in thatstate of, of reactivity, all the
time, it's, you're stuck in thatshort term view, there's there's
very little long term view. Andin the sustainability world,
especially where a lot of wherea lot of my background is that
(07:12):
is problematic for so manyreasons. So I want to ask you,
because I think this is a thisis a, an awakening that that
many folks are having of hittingthat point of enough is enough,
I can't go on like this, my bodywon't even let me anymore. Or
maybe my family won't let mebecause that's falling apart. So
(07:34):
what was your point of noreturn? Or your point of I know,
this has to change? And what didyou do once you realized that?
You know, there was someserendipity, my there was a
bunch of layoffs at thenonprofit I was working for. And
so I kind of had an opportunityto either pursue other work in
(07:58):
that realm, you know, while andwhile I was working those four
years in this nonprofit, I wasalso so that was when I was
starting to develop a healingpractice. But you know, while
you're just in the thick of it,the healing practices, like just
helping you tread water, right?
It's just healthy, you know. Andwhen I was laid off, I just
(08:18):
realized I had a really profoundopportunity to just deepen into
my practices. And I was youngenough, and it was just the
right time in my life that Imade a big leap. And I moved to
India for eight months, and Ijust took a sabbatical, and I
immersed myself into meditationand healing. That was the type
(08:38):
of reset I needed. And when Icame back, eight months later,
you know, the phone was ringing,and I had other jobs because
working through this nonprofitto help get this legislation
passed, I ended up working on acongressional campaign. So then
I was just in the, the belly ofthe beast in terms of just the
gnarly political maneuveringstight, you know, which is very
(09:01):
divisive, right? And yeah, tospeak into just the imprints of
trauma, it's like, trauma willhave us, like, fragmented and
split, right. And when we're nowno longer established in our
wholeness, it's very difficultfor us to then see wholeness in
the world, right. And especiallyfor change makers and purpose
(09:21):
driven leaders. I think that'sour job is to see the
possibility of wholeness in theworld, and then to claim it. And
that becomes nearly a missionimpossible when we are so
fractured inside ourselves. Andso that was the turning point.
When I had that layoff. It'slike, do I keep trying to figure
(09:42):
it out in the system? Or do Ineed to maybe just take a pause
and do some more inner healing,and I get it, not everyone has
that opportunity. But I was itwas early enough in my career
that I was able to just takethat an extended pause, but you
know, Most of the folks I workwith now are doing healing work
while they're also runningcompanies and, you know, being
(10:04):
householders and raisingfamilies and, you know, doing
the 1001 things every day. Andso yeah, we can start to change
the tide and become moreestablished in our presence and,
and redefine who we are asleaders.
(10:24):
I love how you're framing thisrole that that leaders can play
and that you are able to, toreally step out and create the
space and the stillness foryourself. Because I think, as,
as you mentioned, if we'reapplying some of these
practices, and I see this insome of the more mindful
(10:47):
literate leaders, it's almostlike applying that wisdom to the
old model. And it like you said,it just gets us through, it
allows us to keep showing up.
But we're still existing withina very broken system and a very
broken culture that at times,especially if it's a toxic work
environment, is is perpetuatingor triggering some of that
(11:11):
trauma. So to actually giveyourself the space to let that
leave the system. And settle isI mean, not everyone can do it,
like you said, but I the imagethat came to mind, as you were
speaking was the sediment in apond or in a river settling,
right. And as a leader, you cannot only be reconnected to
(11:34):
yourself and have those thosesystems of self awareness,
purpose come back online, but tosee that big picture, like
you're mentioning, so I just Icommend you for actually getting
outside of the system longenough to to regenerate a bit.
And I'm curious about what whatthat experience was, was it
(11:57):
difficult to let go of some ofthose, those patterned responses
that you had maybe been livingin previously? What What was
that process like for you?
Yeah, I think healing is firstbecoming aware of the pattern
responses. And then, again,continuing that cost payoff
(12:19):
analysis, because some of thoseresponses are just just
ingrained in us, right. So we'rejust going to default to them.
And so every time we default toan old response is an
opportunity to gather some moredata points to understand.
Where's that response comingfrom? Why have I depended upon
it? Is it necessary now? And isthere a different choice
(12:40):
available, right, and a lot oftimes, the old response will
come back on, but each time weforget, the new possibility is
an opportunity to remember it.
So I think there is a tensionthat is inherent within growth
within Healing Withintransformation, you know, I
think we start to kind of teaseout the pain or the struggle
(13:01):
that we're motivated to get awayfrom, and then set our sights on
what are we inspired to movetowards, right, what is more
aspirational. And, you know,that's how we can start to
develop new narratives, newbehaviors, and beliefs that are
organized around thatpossibility. And even I haven't
even thought about these yearsand the nonprofit for a while,
(13:23):
just so in this conversation,I'm just reflecting before that
layoff, I was making a lot ofchanges, you know, the culture
was often people getting intothe office at like 10, or 11am.
And then working untilsometimes, like 11pm, and I
started to decide in a newposition, I'm going to work 40
hour work weeks, which, youknow, literally, you know, and
(13:44):
it was such a tight knitcommunity, but that was going
against the culture, right. Andso this tight knit community,
many who are my friends, thatstarted to rub a lot of people
the wrong way. And instead of meshowing up at 10, or 11am, I'd
show up at 8am, and leave, youknow, just a few hours after
other folks are starting. And soit was really hard to make these
(14:06):
changes within that structure.
And I'm just, I'm reallyappreciating that I, you know, I
think sometimes it's likeputting a stake in the ground,
and what are these nonnegotiables? And what are these
new boundaries? And, you know, Ithink so much of healing is
better understanding what ourneeds are, and then finding how
(14:28):
to articulate those needs anunderstanding that there are
certain places where we're notgoing to get our needs met, and
are we willing to stick around?
Or are we going to create a newenvironment where you know, that
can be better matched and thatwe can better provide and
support the needs of others? Youknow, and I think that's, for
me, healing is really anopportunity to either perpetuate
(14:49):
cycles of harm and generationaltrauma or we have a unique
opportunity to heal thosepatterns. So, for me, I think
leader Worship is, you know, tobe a leader is to be a vessel of
healing. And I think that's aprivilege and a great
responsibility.
I couldn't agree more that'sresonating through my system so
(15:12):
deeply to hear you frame it thatway. I think that's part of what
makes being a leader. Today,such a fascinating space to be
in. And it does feel bigger thanus in that way of this does feel
like multi generational trauma,we're halting patterns that have
(15:32):
had so much momentum forhundreds of yours. Now, if we
look at the cultural roots ofcolonialism, capitalism, it's,
it's hard to go against thegrain. And so when you were
describing, setting thatboundary, and moving away from
the the cultural norm, thecultural momentum, if you will,
(15:56):
of, of the team that you're apart of, I think one thing that
you highlighted that feelsreally important was yes, you're
saying, you're saying no, this,this doesn't work for me. But
this aspirational thing overhere does. And so let me move
away from what isn't working,but also remembering that we're
(16:17):
moving towards something too,because it can, it can feel
jarring, or maybe we feel badfor setting those boundaries and
saying no, but there's alsosomething we're building here
in, in the healing. And so yeah,I guess I want to I want to hear
(16:38):
more about this connection thatyou're seeing between healing
and and leadership, you've at ahigh level, you've painted such
a beautiful vision, but whatwhat's possible as leaders when
we do heal, what what shifts inin the outer impact or outcomes
(17:00):
that we're able to create?
Yeah, I think, yeah, leadershipthrough a trauma informed lens
is a deep sensitivity to thehuman experience, right, that I
think so many of these systemsand structures and organizations
are really overriding the humanexperience, right? We're
demanding that folks over Yeah,override just their own
(17:24):
humanity, where, you know, it'snatural for us to flip our lid,
which is us losing access to ourupper brain, and defaulting to
fight flight freeze, or appease,which is more of our survival
brain. And if we understood thisin roles of leadership, first,
we'd understand when we've lostaccess to logic and reason, and
(17:46):
take care of ourselves. So wecan come back online, and not,
you know, be leading from atrauma response. But then we can
also recognize that among thosewho are leading, right, and then
offer the type of supportnecessary to help people regain
access to their upper brain. Andso it's, it's creating space to
(18:07):
pause. It's inviting some ofthis mindfulness and I think
mindfulness is our capacity tobe with ourselves and to be with
what is without reacting to whatis without fighting against what
is noticing everything we pileon top of what is so the
judgments or the stories that weassigned to what is so removing
(18:28):
the stories or removing thejudgments so we can just be with
what is which creates just morespace for our humanity. You
know, I have a lot of leaders Iwork with perfectionism is a big
thing, that a lot of folks thinkthat perfectionism is their
strength, right? But, you know,perfect isn't possible, perfect,
(18:49):
often fueled by a whole lot offear and a whole lot of shame,
you know, in early development,if we aren't getting our basic
needs met reliably andconsistently, that can signal
life or death. And that sets upyou know, an unconscious cycle
of hyper vigilance where we thenit's encoded in us that we need
(19:12):
to take care of everything to beokay. So this patterning that is
then fueling this perfectionismis also this lone wolf
mentality, which, you know,really creates a divide between
us and our capacity to be inrelationship with others in a
way that is, you know, fosteringTrust and Safety and connection.
(19:35):
So I think so much a leadershipis reclaiming that, that
relational field, where we canreside in a sense of trust and
safety and support. You know, somuch of trauma is imprinted upon
us. When we feel isolated andalone and we're lacking support.
And I think we are seeing a lotof the world is feeding off of
(19:59):
that division and Thatalienation and that isolation
within our teams. And so peopleare, you know, so in early
development when we're notgetting our needs met, we learn
early on to either hide orperform parts of ourselves. And
I think we see that in our adultlives and in our roles of
leadership. You know, we'reperforming posturing parts of
(20:22):
ourselves, hiding parts ofourselves. And I think there's
an unburdening that happens inhealing, where we can actually
just be human. And, you know,part of being human as being
messy. And I think also, when westart to dissolve the fear and
the shame, it actually createsmore space for us to be
accountable for when we'remessy, because we're all gonna
(20:43):
make mistakes. But how can weactually, I think some of the
greatest healing happens fromthe relational repair. So when
we make a mistake, you know, howcan we center everyone's
humanity to, to create healingand foster more connection? So
how can conflict even be abridge to more connection, more
(21:03):
cohesion? More unity?
Like, that's so, so important.
There's so many threads that Iwant to pull on in that, you
know, so I went, Oh, mygoodness, no, it's I mean, it's,
it's really remarkable. I do seethe perfectionist leader playing
out quite a bit where there isthat posturing, that masking
(21:25):
presenting as feeling like youhave to get it right. Or be
right, and it's, there'ssomething so relaxing in what
you said, of oh, we do, we doget to be human, we do get to
have that loving relationship,even within ourselves. And let
go of that fear, let go of thatshame. And that that actually
(21:49):
creates space. So I'm, in realtime, it's sinking in on a
deeper level for me that healingcreates space. And there's so
much that is possible in thespace around not only vision and
connecting the purpose, but butthis this coherence that you're
talking about. And I'm remindedof the HeartMath Institute, they
(22:09):
have this this heart ratevariability monitor, and I'm
just imagining how many teamsout there are, are going around
with very little coherencebetween these, these three
centers of intellect in thebody, right the mind, the heart,
the gut. And when that is, isdysregulated, when the nervous
(22:33):
system is dysregulated, so muchgoes out the window as far as
our human relating potential,our decision making. And then if
we're trapped in that fear, andpinching off our bigger selves,
if you will, we're showing up ina fragmented state, which is a
(22:53):
word you used earlier, and Ican't help but feel like
sometimes when I look at the theglobal, the global stage, if you
will, of how things are playingout. We're a bunch of hurt
traumatized children, trying tosave the world, but bumping into
(23:13):
these things left and right. Andit's yeah, I just I'm really,
I'm really appreciating yourframe and how, how much it feels
like a critical path to, toactually creating the impact
that that our Earth and our ourcollective health is meeting. So
(23:35):
I don't see how we get therewithout this, to just Yeah,
blown away by how you're, howyou're thinking about this.
And, you know, it's, for me, I'mjust seeing Yeah, what's playing
out on the world stage is reallya crisis in leadership, which
can feel like, you know, the endof the world, it can feel like
(23:57):
doomsday. And yet, as cliche asit sounds, we need to see it to
heal it. Right. So everythingthat's being displayed on the
world stage, is now for all eyesto see. And when all eyes can
see, it gives us an opportunityto question if this is what we
want. And if it's not what wewant, what do we want? And then
(24:19):
we can start to explore well,how do we get there? Right? And
I think healing provides aunique opportunity. Like I love
the Yeah, talking aboutcoherence. I love heart maths
work. And, yeah, the sense ofheart brain rhythms being
syncopated, right, so we are inthis unified state of resonance,
and I love the imagery of thebody and the mind and the spirit
(24:42):
as a symphony orchestra. So whenwe're experiencing health, all
the different parts of us are inconstant communication from the
cells to the organs to thehormones to the
neurotransmitters to emotions,beliefs, you know, everything.
And yeah, when the nervoussystem gets short circuited,
then all of a sudden thatcommunication starts to break
(25:03):
up, and we start to createnoise. And that noise is our
disease, our illness, that's ourconflict. That's our struggle.
That's our inability tounderstand what we need
communicate our needs to get ourneeds met. And healing is just
breaking up the noise. It's areturn to what in chiropractic
was coined as innate wisdom. Sodecades ago, the term innate
(25:27):
wisdom, you know, if we get apaper cut, there is some healing
mechanism that is inside of usthat orchestrates you know,
healing the paper cuts, sendingthe platelets and the proteins
and orchestrating all of thesebiochemical transmissions. So
healing is just a return to ourinnate wisdom, our inborn,
innate and natural capacity toheal. It's not so much about
(25:51):
trying to figure out the traumaand the wounding, it's not about
trying to fix it, becauseactually, nothing is really
broken, things are maybe out ofbalance, but they're not broken.
There's just these maladaptations to stress. But the
more we connect to our innatewisdom, then the more we start
to renegotiate those mountadaptations, and come back to
(26:13):
that symphony orchestra that weare, and there's a musicality of
being that is just inherentwithin us. And having
experienced that myself, youknow, I'm three inches taller
than I was 25 years ago, thisunraveling this severe curve,
and my spine, you know, I'm nolonger struggling with chronic
pain, anxiety, depression, whichwas all organized around
(26:34):
developmental trauma. Seeingkind of that crisis state turn
into opportunity within my ownbody, mind, spirit, I, I just
know that that's possible. Andso I hold that vision for the
collective. And so I think asleaders, it's really important
for us to hold a cohesive visionof possibility, excuse me,
(26:57):
because I think trauma, traumahelp breaks up a unified,
cohesive narrative or throughline for our lives, right, it
creates these distortions andthese fragmentations. So I think
as leaders, it's imperative thatwe hold a through line of
clarity of vision for thefuture. And that becomes our
(27:19):
why. And that becomes agenerative force that we
continue to reference back to.
And that's kind of where we kindof are holding out the light or
the torch. And that's no easytask. But the more we we find
that within ourselves, the themore, the more able we are to
hold that for others.
(27:42):
Yeah, I've, I've come to thinkof leadership, as a sacred
practice, almost as sacred asmeditation, yoga and thinking
about it, in the way that you'redescribing it, where we're
trauma, and these stories arethese these dramas of our lives
can can interrupt the cohesion.
That's such a helpful, visual,and what gives me hope, in what
(28:07):
you're saying, as well is thattrauma isn't bad, it's it, it
exists, and we get to be withit. And we get to metabolize it,
if you will. But we're notbroken, we're not we're not a
thing to fix. And when weactually get to that
(28:28):
spaciousness that you'redescribing, it sounds like that
getting to this innate wisdom isalmost like this energy PS or
this inner compass that justneeds to be dusted off in a way
and I can't help but think ofhow, how water will always find
the path of least resistance,right? It's like, there's
(28:50):
something in us that alreadyknows how to get us there. And
if we can declutter some of thatnoise, as you're saying, and
might sound cliche, but sort ofmove towards that light traveled
down the path of leastresistance that that there is
actually more coherence possiblefor all of us. And so yeah,
(29:11):
again, loving, loving how you'reframing a lot of this and I want
to get I want to get practicalfor a moment, in the clear in
the practices that you've found.
Helpful for clearing this spacefor doing the decluttering for
(29:32):
reducing the noise. Whatpractices in within your sacred
practice of leadership, are youfinding to be most effective?
Yeah, and just to kind ofreiterate, yeah, I think so for
me, excuse me, my journey andreturning to wholeness gives me
the capacity to see wholeness inthe world. Right. And I think
(29:53):
that becomes the sacred practicefor us to continue to scan for
wholeness because negativitybias The brain is always going
to default and look for dangerand what's wrong and what's bad.
And it's our job as leaders tohave an awareness of what could
go wrong, but not energize thatwe are energizing what could go
right, right. And so yeah, thepractices that have been, you
(30:18):
know, part and parcel of my ownhealing, and that I share with
all of you know, the leadersthat I work with my students and
my clients, I overlay trauma,excuse me, I have a tickle in my
throat today. No worries. So Ioverlay trauma and neuroscience
with somatic and mindfulnessbased practices and energy
(30:38):
medicine, which is a mouthful,so I'll break all that down a
little bit, please do. You know,we've talked about nervous
system regulation as a baselinefor creating stability and
presence, right, it's like aseaplane that lands on water
kind of bounces up, and thenlands again bounces up. So we're
training the nervous system tofinally land. And that's where
(31:01):
we can derive safety. And safetyis necessary in terms of
neuroplasticity, our ability torewire the brain, you know, our
imagination literally createsthe structure of our brain, and
then the structure of our livesand the structure of the world.
When we've got trauma on thebrain, then the structure of our
brain is organized around dangeraround hyper vigilance around
(31:24):
separation and isolation. Soonce we locate safety, we can
start to generate new neuralpathways of possibility and
cohesion and connection. And sothat is a practice, right? So
every day, I have a choice. AndI can catch when my brain is
scanning and defaulting todanger to what's bad and what's
(31:45):
wrong. And then it's like,alright, is that the only truth?
Let me scan for what else couldbe true? Or what would I like to
be true? And what are thepractical steps I can take in
alignment with that, right, sonot believing everything we
think, and then realizing thatthere's a power to thought so we
(32:05):
can choose to think somethingdifferent. And so that's like,
the mindfulness piece is reallythe necessary mind training to
reorient from pain topossibility. And I get it,
sometimes we're in the trenchesof our wounding and our trauma,
and in our pain, and it's reallyhard to set our sights on the
horizon of possibility. And sothat's that's the work though,
(32:29):
right? We and if we can't seethat horizon of possibility,
once we want the horizon ofpossibility to feel like, right,
so connecting to a vibrationallevel, so a lot of folks will
come to me and they don't knowwhat they want, or what they
desire. So it's like, well, whatwould you like it to feel like?
And let's start by cultivatingthat vibration, because the more
(32:51):
we actually live in that feelingstate in this moment? Well, it's
actually true, and it's here,and it's now. And that's, that's
power, right, then we haveliterally shifted, you know,
our, our heart brain rhythms toa more coherent state that is
helping us live in thevibrational patterning of that,
(33:12):
which we want. And so I overlaythe, the somatic piece to
because like a bird that fliesinto a window that drops to the
ground, you think the bird isdead, but it's just in shock,
right? And how many of us are inshock with trauma patterns that
we have dissociated, and we'vecut off from parts of ourselves,
(33:32):
so we're living from the neckup, right? And when we have when
we lack the capacity to feelourselves, we lose presence and
agency, right? And so, withoutagency, well, we're going to
probably feel pretty stuck.
Like, and that's, that'sproblematic. So how do we thaw
out that freeze response? Andhow do we come back into being
(33:53):
able to feel ourselves? And soworking with somatically
oriented practices to do justthat? And the trauma and
neuroscience roadmap is really,you know, I felt for me, I was
going to healers in therapy foryears. And I knew I was on the
right track. I was starting tofeel some shifts, but I still
didn't really know where I wasor where I was going, you know,
(34:15):
so I felt like I was kind oftraveling blindfolded. So I
provide to everyone I work with,with a roadmap that has the
seven Prisma pillars, whichreally mapped kind of this
journey from pain to purpose.
And I love the idea of just howdo we mind the goal of
unresolved trauma so we canderive more meaning and
significance in our lives. And,you know, purpose is a big piece
(34:39):
of resilience, right? Without asense of purpose. It's really
hard to cultivate resilience.
And so redefining purpose asintrinsically motivated. So it's
not about you know, getting thenext award or the next
recognition or the next outer,you know, marker of success.
It's more about who we are andwhat brings us to life, and
really how a quality of presenceand an emanation of being can be
(35:04):
our purpose. So it's not so muchwhat we do, but who we are. And
so that's why I think who we arereally informs how we lead. So
overlaying all that with energymedicine, which I was introduced
to energy medicine, way backwhen I was, you know, in
debilitating chronic pain withmy scoliosis, I met a massage
therapist who offered me amassage. And I did not want a
(35:27):
massage, because just physicaltouch was too painful. And so
she introduced me to energymedicine, which was completely
foreign to me, I was living awhole different world. And I
realized within moments that Ifound something I didn't even
know I was looking for, it wasas if I like lifted up and out
of my pain body, which untilthat point, my pain body, my
(35:48):
trauma, my drama was all I knew,right. And so I got to actually
taste, get a taste of who I amoutside of my pain, which was
remarkable. So energy medicinereally helps us heal a lot of
the pain and the wounding thatwe can't think or talk our way
through, we get to bypass thebrain, and helps to connect us
to that innate wisdom break upthat noise. So that Symphony
(36:12):
Orchestra comes back online, youknow, more practically speaking,
it's helping to calm thecardiovascular system, regulate
the nervous system, strengthenimmune function. So again, it's
lending itself to that state ofcoherence that the Heart Math,
you know, does such a good jobarticulating, and actually
monitoring. And so I findpairing the energy medicine with
(36:36):
the Cymatics. And themindfulness and the trauma and
the neuroscience, really createa healing path that is
accessible for folks, I'm reallycommitted to making healing,
practical, and I want to reallydemocratize it. So people don't
have to go get a PhD or spenddecades or years in therapy,
they can actually get practicaltools to heal themselves. And
(36:59):
I'd like to demystify it too. SoI don't heal people, I don't
have some power, that I holdover people to heal them, I've
share a lot of tools that havehelped me heal myself. And over
the last 25 years, I've reverseengineered so other folks can
learn those tools and healthemselves. And I think when we
heal ourselves, we heal theworld. And if we're in the world
(37:23):
of social impact, if we'remission driven, I think that's,
you know, our humanity is ourgreatest asset
is speaking of Symphony, it'shearing you speak, it's, I mean,
I'm sitting in the symphony ofresonance with what with what
(37:44):
you're sharing, and reallyhearing how you're practicing on
on all three of those levels ofmind, body, and soul or in the
energetic realm. And I love thatyou found a way to bring energy
healing into it. Because Ithink, whether leaders realize
it or not, they're energymanagers on some level, managing
(38:07):
their own energy managing theenergy of their team. And so to
to have this, this layeredapproach this multi dimensional
approach to practice feels sopowerful. And yeah, I get
excited. I get excited for morepeople to try this on. And I
(38:31):
think it's becoming moremainstream. And I want to ask as
well, if someone's just gettingstarted, or if this is a new
world, tip for them, like it wasfor you when you went to that
massage, and first, wereintroduced to energy healing,
where can people get started inbeginning to heal themselves so
(38:52):
that they can heal the world? Asyou said,
Yeah, I think there's noprerequisites for healing. So I
think it's just start whereyou're at, you know, and so,
follow the breadcrumbs on yourpath. You know, for me, I think
before I was introduced energymedicine, I had been reading
some books on mindfulness andsome Eckhart Tolle and, you
(39:13):
know, spending time in natureand listening to music were like
my bread crumbs that werehelping me get a taste of like
my wholeness and myself aconnection to myself and my
healing capacity. But yeah, Ihave a download a free download
that outlines the seven Prismapillars and gives prompts and
give some mindset mantras tojust help people kind of
(39:36):
reorient to these logical stepson a healing path. And yeah,
this day and age, well, my workis all online. So I have you
know, I'm working with folks allover the country. So I think
healing is just never been moreaccessible than it is now. And I
think what's really important isfinding the people that you
(39:57):
resonate with, I mean, so yes,it's important to have
modalities and treatments thatare effective. And that work,
you know, proven systems just asimportant is to partner with,
you know, the people that youcan have a resonance with,
there's just a lot of researcharound the therapeutic benefit
of the right relationship.
Right. And so, so much of whatwe're talking about is this
(40:21):
fragmentation within us and thisfragmentation relationally, this
disconnect, so much of thetherapeutic relationship that
you have with a healer, ateacher, a mentor, a therapist,
becomes a learning laboratoryfor how do we repair our
connection to you know, others?
(40:43):
You know, I think healing isboth our relationship from
ourselves to ourselves, and thenour relationship to others.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad tohear that there are some
resources that listeners can gograb, that sounds amazing. And I
appreciate what you're alludingto here around each person's
(41:06):
path can look different likethat our path to healing can be
as diverse as we are, andfollowing those breadcrumbs
honoring that, that innatewisdom to help guide you towards
what's right for you. And beingin that right relationship.
This, this move from that thatsort of assembly line approach
(41:31):
to healing our solution movingfrom that to this more
customized path. There are somany patterns that I think we
are shifting away from andmoving into something else. And
I appreciate how you've,throughout this conversation,
illuminated a lot of thoseparadigm level shifts in what's
(41:52):
possible, and I want to I wantto end by asking, what what is
the better world that your heartknows is possible? And what is
the impact that you're reallywanting to, to see in the world
so that we can all add ourintention as listeners to that?
(42:12):
Yeah, I love that. You know, Ithink authenticity, you know,
just people feeling, noreservation in being themselves,
because I think we each havesuch a valuable contribution to
this world, just through livinginto our own hearts song. And
(42:35):
that is how we then harmonizewith the whole, right, so I'm
just seeing a return towholeness. So, again, back to
kind of tying up the wholeconversation, what may seem
broken in the world, what mayseem like what is just the
shattering of what we've knownin the world is really moving us
(42:58):
closer to a more unified fieldof intelligence, and just this,
the Symphony Orchestra ofhumanity. And, and I see that
more and more, even when we'reseeing socially, politically,
economically, more and moreforces that are working against
humanity. I think that's justactually just helping to
(43:19):
strengthen and galvanize the,the human spirit and the
resilience that is inherentwithin each of us. And so, yeah,
that piece around purpose, Ithink, what I'll leave it off as
it's like, you know, dharma islike this are our life path, our
life purpose. It's like this astar in a constellation. It's
(43:44):
like knowing our place in thecosmic order. And that star in a
constellation just gets to beitself. It's not trying to be
anything, it's not, it's nottrying to be another star. And
it doesn't have to do anything,it just gets to shine. Right?
And I think healing helps usjust rest in our humanity, rest
(44:05):
in our heart, song, and, andshine. And I think that is
possible. And I think the moreeach of us as individuals comes
online, in our ownconstellation, it just starts to
shed light on the otherconstellations in the sky.
I can think of no better placeto end this incredible
(44:27):
conversation than with thatmetaphor. Thank you for leaving
us with that visual. And we'llwe'll drop all of the links for
the listeners on where you canfind Greg connect with his work,
download the free resource thathe mentioned. Greg, thank you so
much for sharing all of thesedeep, deep nuggets of wisdom. It
(44:50):
was such a pleasure to be inthis conversation with you.
Thanks, Nicole. My pleasure.
Have a beautiful day.
The inner work is often thehardest one Right, but it is the
work required for lasting changeand healthier future for us all.
If you found the show valuable,please leave a review and
subscribe. You can also take adeeper dive with me at Nicole
(45:10):
bellisle.com. Thanks again forbeing here and showing up for
your new self. Your future selfis certainly thank you
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