February 14, 2024 • 59 mins
In this week's episode, join us for an enlightening conversation with Gerardo Segat, a distinguished CEO, Chairman, and entrepreneur turned international business coach, as we delve into the transformative power of authentic leadership.
We unpack the often overlooked truth that leading with vulnerability and authenticity yields far greater results than traditional, fear-based approaches. Through our dialogue, Gerardo offers profound insights into maintaining humanity in leadership amidst the complexities of today's tech-driven world.
Discover the keys to navigating uncertainty with radical clarity, humanity, and positivity, and learn how aligning inner values with external actions can lead to not just successful outcomes, but deep fulfillment and connection.
Key topics explored in this episode include:
- The impact of authentic, vulnerable leadership versus traditional fear-based methods.
- Strategies for remaining human-centric in an era where technology risks overshadowing genuine connection.
- The concept of leading with radical clarity, humanity, and positivity to master today's business challenges.
- Transforming the four universal fears into pillars of love-driven, liberated leadership.
- The future of leadership: cultivating a culture of vulnerability, support, and mutual growth.
Tune in to uncover the indispensable role of emotional transparency in achieving purpose-driven, impactful leadership, and how creating environments of empathy and mutual respect can lead to shared victories and a thriving organizational culture.
Learn more about Gerardo Segat, whose "purpose and legacy is humanizing leadership," and whose "secret weapon is sensitivity." (How could you not after a purpose statement like that?)
https://gerardosegat.com/
Learn more about Living Leaders at https://livingleaders.org
Love today's episode?
Please leave a review and subscribe!
If you want to be a more conscious leader or transition your business to a more regenerative model, visit us at:
livingleaders.org
https://www.youtube.com/livingleadersorg/
https://www.instagram.com/livingleadersorg/
Be sure to subscribe to The Regenerative Leader newsletter!
Meet our host, Nicole Bellisle:
https://www.nicolebellisle.com
https://www.youtube.com/nicolebellisle
https://www.instagram.com/nicolebellisle/
https://www.tiktok.com/@nicolebellisle
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey leaders, welcome back.
As you know, I get to have themost incredible conversations on
this show with leaders who arereally walking the talk,
embodying this new paradigm ofdoing business, and I'm coming
to you on the other side of thisconversation with our guest
today, gerardo Sagat, and I amjust absolutely filled on a sole
(00:21):
level with hope, love, visionfor what the future can hold for
us if we are able to show up inour authenticity and our
vulnerability.
There's a whole different setof outcomes or consequences that
naturally or organically comewhen we lead from this place.
Gerardo is really on a missionto humanize leadership and he
(00:47):
has this incredible way of goingfirst when it comes to modeling
vulnerability in safe spacesthat he's helping to curate for
other leaders, effectivelyinviting them into their own
authenticity and vulnerability,inviting them to embody these
skill sets that are morehuman-based or more
(01:09):
emotion-based, these skill setsthat are not gonna go away, even
as tech radically transformsour culture and our world.
We're going to need leaders whoare connected to their human
sentience and to their humanity.
Gerardo is really on a missionto help leaders uncover exactly
that.
In today's episode, gerardoshares some amazing real-world
(01:32):
examples, as well as someframeworks to really help us.
We explore topics likeovercoming our fear as leaders,
and Gerardo shares the top fourfears that when working with
leaders from around the globe,he has noticed that their fears
really boil down to these fourfears, and he shares what's
possible on the other side ofmoving through.
(01:53):
He also helps to paint thepicture of what becomes possible
in our lives and our companiesand teams when we live from a
place of radical positivity,radical humanity and radical
clarity.
Inside the episode we'll getinto what he really means by
each of these, with somepractical tips and examples for
(02:16):
how we can ground these into ourown day-to-day practices.
What I absolutely love aboutthis conversation with Gerardo
is that it acknowledges thatleadership is often an inner
journey.
First and foremost, goals thatwe set for ourselves as leaders
are not something that existsjust out there, these things
(02:37):
that we chase.
There is a deep sense of purposeand values-based goals that
exist in each and every one ofus that is unique and if we can
uncover these, so much becomespossible in the ripple effect of
the impact that we then have.
Gerardo also understands thatleaders are often faced with the
(02:58):
impossible task of navigatingthe old paradigm that is very
rooted in fear, in control, insome of the false beliefs that
leaders are supposed to have allthe answers or know it all, and
there's a level of isolationthat can happen, a level of
loneliness that can happen whenwe are leading on an island or
(03:22):
leading from the top of ahierarchy with no one to really
lean on and be vulnerable, withno one to really share what it
is that we're going throughbecause we have to hold this
illusion of having it allfigured out.
We have to wear these masks asleaders, but what happens if we,
(03:43):
as leaders, are models fortaking off this mask and
stepping into a new, authentic,humanized version of leadership
and of work?
That is what we get into insidetoday's conversation.
It was honestly so nourishingon a soul level, as I mentioned,
on a heart level, and I thinkyou'll really feel in your
(04:05):
bodies the difference betweenthe paradigm of leadership that
Gerardo is painting a picture ofversus the template of
leadership that we havetraditionally been sold in,
these more fear-basedorganizations rooted in scarcity
, rooted in hyper-individualismall these things that we see at
(04:26):
playing out at a global scaleand are leading us towards a
future that feels unsustainable.
Gerardo has a different modeland gives some practical ways to
understand when you're in thatmodel instead of the old
paradigm.
So, again, I can't wait to getinto this conversation.
I know you're gonna take somuch out of it.
(04:47):
Let's dive in, gerardo.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the Living
Leaders Podcast.
I know we have a lot topotentially get into today, just
given your experience and howyou're thinking about humanizing
work and bringing moreauthenticity into leadership,
and so thank you for being hereand going on this journey
(05:07):
together today.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Nicole, thank you for inviting me to your podcast
.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
My pleasure, gerardo, I think, giving your vast
experience with entrepreneurshipbeing a chairman, being a CEO,
I mean you've sort of seenleadership from all different
vantage points and manydifferent scales of business and
of impact.
So I think where I'd love tostart today, learning about your
leadership journey and how yourdefinition of leadership or
(05:36):
success has evolved over time.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think we have to go back in the past.
Well, I come from, you know,I'm kind of one of those guys
who has taken a direction thatdid not belong to me.
Because of live events, I lostmy dad when I was six and my mom
when I was 15.
So didn't have any money, Studyat university was paying off my
(06:04):
study by organizing parties andclubs, et cetera.
So that somehow built withinmyself an idea of success that
was very much based on outerelements.
So, you know, I had in my bloodbeing an entrepreneur because
my dad was an entrepreneur, andso the idea of a successful
(06:30):
entrepreneur to me looked like,you know, big group, lots of
people, lots of offices, lots ofmoney, you know, lots of these
external signs.
So that is the direction I took.
And then what happened is thatonce I got there, I actually had
(06:51):
this strange feeling.
So okay, and you know what'snext?
First question, and second,also, you know, I was standing
in that position and saying, butthis is not so funny.
You know, this is not someaningful, this is not so
fulfilling.
And, to be honest, I was verylucky I reached that position,
(07:16):
because I guess maybe by now, ifI didn't, I would still be, you
know, pursuing that.
But you know, when I got there,I, you know, I had this kind of
feeling, so that somehow at thattime I actually decided I said,
(07:36):
okay, I'm gonna get rid of allthis, okay, and so I'm gonna
exit my business.
You know, I started a smallbusiness myself, a secretary in
a service office, and it becamea 400 people operation with 10
offices around the world, etcetera, et cetera.
So I sold back, I exited mybusiness, sold it back to my
(08:01):
partners, and I didn't know, tobe honest, what I was going to
do.
So it was a kind of leap in thedark.
And then, gradually, you know,little by little, then we went
into a completely differentdirection.
So I liked coaching and Ire-qualified as a coach.
(08:25):
You know, all these graduallyeven going, taking that
direction meant looking inside,okay, and start looking inside
myself.
So more inner than outer.
And so, to answer your question, the events, the way that my
(08:48):
career evolved and the way theleadership for me evolved, was
from outer to more inner, okay,and now, at this point, after I
changed, I exited my business in2016,.
So it's now seven years and nowit restarts going outside, but
(09:12):
from inside, so it's kind ofinside out, but that is the way
leadership changed.
For me, leadership is inner,it's not outer anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I love the recognition of that shift and
I'm reminded of this book Ithink it's called the Second
Mountain where it introducesthis concept of climbing the
first mountain of success andgetting to the top.
And we do this through all theconventional means necessary and
the traditional definitions ofsuccess that we've sort of been
(09:45):
enculturated into through ourculture, through our context,
through our upbringing, anythinglike this, and that actually
getting to the top of that givesus this vantage point of huh,
there is actually somethingmissing.
This is more hollow than I wouldhave thought.
Getting there is not actuallygetting there in the sense of
(10:06):
how we might want to feel.
And so I really resonate withyour story of getting through
some of that more traditionalsuccess climbing to the top, so
to speak, and then kind ofseeing wait a minute, there's
got to be something more hereand then being faced with that
choice to take a big leap offaith and I love that you went
(10:28):
for it and that you made thechange, because I think not
everyone does.
And the fact that taking thatleap of faith kind of brought
you to the more internal aspectsof leadership I think is really
beautiful and ripe for whereleadership seems to be going on
the planet, like you said, so Iwant to dive into that a little
(10:49):
bit, to just understand moreabout this inside out approach
to leadership.
What does this really mean toyou and what does this look like
in practice, as you've beenuncovering this inside out
approach?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Once you actually start doing it, because of
whatever reason mine was what Iexplained before Somehow you
start gradually smelling it andyou actually it's like eating a
nice plate of pasta or a badplate of pasta.
So you start, the taste, thesmell of it is much nicer and
(11:33):
therefore this invites you todiscover more, eat more, etc.
I think bottom line, what Ithink is crucial, is actually to
have objectives that are innerand not only outer, either to
have only inner objective or tohave inner and outer objectives.
(11:57):
Okay, by the way, the outerobjectives that you may want,
from my experience, are simplyoutcomes of what you do inside
of you, and so setting yourselfinner objectives, I think, is
very, very important for guidingyou in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm really hearing in what you're saying that when we
get in touch with that level ofattunement or that level of
values alignment withinourselves, that I love what you
said, that you can you develop ataste for it, you develop a
smell for it and you kind ofknow when you're in it.
And what I hear in what you'resaying is like we can trust that
(12:44):
, we can trust ourselves to knowthe difference and we can trust
ourselves to know when a goalis coming from that space, from
that values aligned space,coming from kind of the inside
out, as you said, instead ofmaybe just subscribing to a goal
or a narrative that we haveseen externally, that we adopt
(13:06):
because we think we should, orwe adopt because we think it's
going to give us the belongingthat we seek and yet often don't
know how to articulate that.
This is a big part of what we'reafter as human beings.
And so when I imagine goalscoming from this place of inner
(13:27):
alignment or values alignmentand I imagine a group of people
beginning to do that as well andkind of coming into this more
self aware space, thepossibilities feel really
endless to me as far as the typeof team or company that that
can evolve into.
And so I'm curious what you'veseen as far as multiple people
(13:49):
kind of coming together in thisself aware, values, aligned,
purpose driven, letting theirgoals come from the inside out,
like what becomes possible whenwe get to do that with others
who are committed to leadingfrom this way too, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
That's a big question .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I'm full of them.
I'm full of big questions.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
First, I wanted to give you a kind of a small
example.
Okay, yeah, because we aretalking very philosophical, but
the reality is then these cantranslate into practice.
So, very small example If youthink about your next important
meeting, okay, and you normallyhave objectives for that meeting
(14:41):
, I want to, you know, end upthe meeting with a contract
signed or we have, you know,those are always external Okay.
So if, together with this, or if, in to replace that outer
objective, you actually setyourself as a goal at the end of
(15:04):
the meeting, I want to feelexit, or I want to feel why that
often should even changes theway that you prepare the meeting
and what you're actually goingto do during that meeting, okay.
So that's a very, you know,practical example of when I say,
(15:24):
even in a tiny event, okay,just together, without the signs
, add an inside sign if you want, okay, how, I don't, I want to
end up the meeting.
What do I want to feel at theend of the meeting?
And I'm going to give you asecond example.
That's a little bit more,that's a bigger one, but it is
(15:50):
still something that you can do.
When you say inner objectives,you know, in our leadership,
daily life everybody, we, youknow, we shout we wear masks, we
blame, we ignore, we postpone,we destroy.
We you know, we judge, you knowall those behaviors, harmful
(16:16):
behaviors okay, we all have them, come from fears that we have.
Okay, so they are harmfuldefensive behavior from fears.
Now, what I did, and also whatI then, throughout the years,
did with my clients, is to tryand build up this pyramid to get
(16:40):
from those harmful behaviors tothe ultimate fears that are
causing these behaviors.
So, you know, continuouslyasking myself, okay, but why
this behavior?
Why this fear?
Because you might end up withfear, but those are not the
ultimate ones, there might beintermediate fears.
(17:00):
So I built up this pyramid andwhat I ended up is I ended up
with four fears.
So the four ultimate fears of aleader.
The first fear is beingmeaningless.
Okay, so no meaning in what youdo, no meaning in your life, in
(17:24):
yourself meaningless.
Second fear, big fear, isloneliness, so being lonely or
ending up alone.
The third fear is dependencyFrom something or from somebody,
today or in the future.
(17:45):
And the fourth one isuncertainty.
So those are the four ultimatefears of a leader.
We all have them, at justdifferent intensity, a different
level, okay, so now you know,in an easy way, if you flip
(18:08):
those fears, you come to what Icall the inner treasures of a
leader.
So meaning love, freedom andcertainty.
So those are the innertreasures.
Only every leader has theminside.
They just need to go and lookand find them With an inner
(18:36):
journey.
So that's another example.
So myself, today, I Set myselfmy objectives are meaning love,
freedom, certainty.
When you set yourself this kindof inner objective, the
decisions you take, what you do,how you see things Changes
(19:00):
completely Absolutely.
So this is to give youraudience a practical example
what to do.
So what I can do is actuallybuild this pyramid yourself and
get to those ultimate fears,flip them and then you see what
kind of inner objectives you canhave.
(19:21):
To answer your question aboutwhat can happen, I think you
know lots happens Individually,okay, and therefore lots can
happen at in any community wherethe individual is a part of
(19:41):
Individually.
I can tell you Probably the Twovery strong things,
consequences effects Well, threeI think.
One is radical positivity.
So when you, your life is, whenyou are authentic, when you are
(20:04):
vulnerable, when you are havedeep authenticity, when you have
a purpose in life, you knowwhat happens is that you always
look at a positive side ofthings always and you that that
says, you know, if you see aperson that is like that, it's a
clear sign that there'ssomething inside.
(20:25):
You know the deeply authentichuman connection.
Purpose exit, even the the mostnegative, even the most
negative.
The second is Radical humanity.
(20:45):
So all those human skills thatwe call soft skills, that in
reality I don't know why we callsoft, because they are human
Empathy, gratitude, you knowyour, your name, everything very
strong in in the person.
(21:06):
And the third one, which is theone that I personally like the
most, is Radical clarity.
So you know we talk aboutintuition, you know something
inside, so and somehow we say,okay, go and listen to your
intuition and act According toyour intuition.
(21:28):
Somehow it's like an innervoice.
If you want, that is, hmm, youknow, there is sometimes
distance or there is fogcollided the way you want inside
that you can't see and you heara little voice Saying you
something Okay, that is yourself, your inner, okay, that is your
(21:49):
, your inner human being tellingyou things.
Okay.
So you say, okay, follow that.
So intuition exists becausethere is no, because there is no
connection with a human, innerhuman being.
You know we call it intuition.
The reality is when there isconnection, it turns into
clarity.
So people who are deeplyconnected, people who are
(22:15):
Authentic, people who arevulnerable, people who have a
purpose in the life they are,they have this radical clarity.
Now what the consequence ofradical clarity is that With
radical clarity you createmagical spaces.
Okay, so the leader who hasradical clarity Creates magical
(22:41):
spaces.
Those are, I don't know,win-win scenarios.
So in any kind of situationthey go a difficult negotiation,
management in the company theycreate win-win scenarios.
Okay, they're able to see andspot what is the win-win
(23:02):
scenario.
That is always there.
Sometimes we don't see it, butif we have this radical clarity,
then we are able to spotimmediately.
The second type I've seen isimpossible to possible.
So something that looksimpossible, turn it into
possible.
Those are the kind of magicalspaces that I call magical
(23:25):
spaces, because then you knowthey spread positivity all
around.
And you know these people.
They are simply they are light.
You know they are like shiningstars.
So they they spread light allover because it is contagious.
Then the effect is justspreading all of that around
(23:46):
them.
So the same goes to the people,so to the team, and from the
team it goes to the families andit goes to you know, it just
spreads because you know I tellyou one thing, and sorry if I
talk too much, but this isbeautiful Thank you people, any
people, and leaders Are justlooking forward to find
(24:11):
themselves in two scenarioswhere they can be the true self.
Anyone is looking forward,Desperately looking forward to
be in a situation where they canbe themselves.
Now, if you think about leaders, Okay, well, you know we demand
(24:32):
from leaders, you know we askthem to have human skills, we
ask them to.
They are on the spotlight andtherefore they are subject to
judgment and if more than anyone, okay, those people are in
situations where it's not easyTo be the true self.
(24:55):
What we demand from leadersthey, where we put them Somehow
Leads them To be lonely.
You know it's, it's a solitudeposition of that, this desire to
be in situation where you canbe yourself.
(25:16):
It applies to everyone, butfully.
This in particular, Okay, andthe you know, nowadays this is
coming out.
I can give you an example ofthis.
I am a member of thisorganization called YPO, Young
(25:40):
President Organization.
It's a community that wasfounded 70 years ago in the US
and it's now the largestcommunity of CEO and leaders
worldwide 35,000 people in 140countries.
Now they've done a survey.
(26:01):
They've asked what is numberone reason for your membership?
Okay, we're talking about thecommunity of CEOs.
What is the number one reasonfor your membership?
And the answer has been.
I will explain to you what itis.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It really points to what you were saying about
loneliness as well, and what Ihave been really feeling, as
you've been speaking soprofoundly, is that if we really
distill this down to a patternslevel insight, it feels like
(26:40):
the difference between leadingfrom fear and leading from love.
And when I think about the fourfears that you mentioned and
really facing those and gettinginto this space of radical
positivity, humanity and clarity, there's a relaxation in a lot
(27:03):
of that too, in fully being inour humanness, our clarity of
purpose, relaxing into trustingthat things will work out when
we align and when we connectauthentically, and so I can see
how organizations that are beingled from these aspects of
(27:26):
radical positivity, humanity andclarity.
There's almost a relaxing intothe ability to be authentic and
the ability to stay connected toour intuition, as you were
saying.
Like I was really feeling, wow,there's something about that.
When we're connected andattuned to that more intuitive
(27:46):
intelligence, that's maybealways available, but if we're
in a fear state, we sort ofblock access to it.
And I think about one of theother fears that you mentioned
of uncertainty and how we are atsuch a time when leaders are,
as you said, expected to dothese impossible things to
(28:07):
navigate complexity anduncertainty, to have the answers
, to be able to unlock the fullpotential of their team.
It's like what does that evenmean?
Like these are impossiblescenarios for anyone leader to
hold.
And yet, if we can kind of letthat go, trust the intuition to
(28:29):
guide us, trust ourselves toreally see the authenticity or
the potential in other people,the solutions that come from
that open receptivity, asopposed to the solutions or
ideas that come from thatcontracted fear state of how I
think we're running many of ourorganizations today.
(28:50):
It feels so different in mybody, right.
So I'm also reminded of whatyou said in the beginning of the
conversation, of this issomething you really learn to
smell and taste and feel thedifference in your body, even
energetically.
And so, as you've been speaking,I've just really noticed that
in these two comparisons, and itdoesn't surprise me that this
(29:16):
global organization of CEOs aremost needing these safe spaces I
know that's a term that's oftenoverused and abused these days
of creating safe space, but aplace where they can really beat
themselves, take the mask off,where it's okay not to have the
answer.
It's okay to be a whole humanand be going through a divorce
(29:38):
or having an infant child andtrying to lead a company where
you've got one team member who'sstruggling with alcohol or drug
abuse.
It's like the human nature ofwhat we face.
We often don't have the spaceinside our organizations to move
through that and it feels and Iknow you say this in some of
(29:58):
your material this emotionsfocused approach to teams and
really being in the desiredfeeling state and then letting
your behavior or your actioncome from that.
So there's just so much thatyou're talking about.
That is a wild paradigm shiftfrom the fear-based organization
(30:19):
into this open and receptiveclarity of purpose and I yeah,
I'm just soaking it all in andlove how you've articulated what
becomes possible in all of thattoo.
I'll just leave the floor openfor whatever is maybe still
percolating in you around eitherthese fears or the emotions
(30:43):
focused team building and whatyou're seeing in that space.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, I want to tell you one thing now, because one
of the things that normallypeople say you know it's you
know you can be successful.
Without that you can reachsuccess, and that is true now,
well, external.
So if you can get to or reachexternal goals if you want, you
(31:11):
don't actually need that, butthe reason why you need it is
that at a certain point in yourlife, if you only focus on
external, there will be onemoment and the latest will be
just before you die that youregret, that you will have
(31:33):
resentments.
Okay.
So, if you know, taking care ofyour inner, looking your inner,
knowing, being cautious, etc.
Allows you to avoid that at acertain point in life, whatever
(31:54):
your life events are.
Number two is do you know whatyou're missing?
If you actually add that?
Okay, and I'm going to give anexample.
There is a beautiful book that Irecommend to you and your
audience, called the Heart ofBusiness, and it is written by a
guy called Uberjouli.
(32:14):
He's a French guy but who about10 years ago, was called a CEO
of an American group, best Buy,a large consumer electronics.
The book talks about this story.
Okay, and I recommend itbecause it has a lot of
practical examples and it tellsthe story of this guy who was
(32:39):
called to become the CEO of BestBuy.
At the time, best Buy wasalmost bankrupt.
So what he did?
He came in and placed humanconnection and purpose at the
center of the business.
What happened is, after a fewyears, the stock price
multiplied by 11.
It is one of the most totescases taught in business schools
(33:06):
, one of the most famous turnaround in business history.
Okay, so it's not that it isnice.
Okay, it is nice.
And it also reflects onexternal signs.
So we don't forget the outcomes.
But the outcomes are a simpleconsequence.
(33:27):
Okay, but they're there.
And you may think, oh, yes, Ican reach success, but the
question is, what are you ableto reach?
What would you be able to reachif you looked inside and had a
kind of inside out life, etc.
(33:48):
I can tell you my example.
I can tell you that, lookingoutside became a successful
entrepreneur.
Build up a group, 400 people,10 offices around the world, etc
.
Okay, impacted 400 people.
(34:08):
Today, I created a show whichis called Out as Humans.
It is featured at World LeaderConvention, okay, and the aims
are creating that safe spacethat you talked before for
(34:29):
leaders to open up to bevulnerable, take out their mask,
etc.
Etc.
So impact the world.
Okay.
So the change that happened tome by going in there is impact
400 people.
Yes, maybe I could have doneyou know little acquisitions
(34:51):
here.
There become more.
You know thousands.
Imagine thousands of peopleimpact the world in the other
way.
That's my experience.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, that's really a shift away from chasing goals
externally as well and lettingit sort of be the byproduct of
how we live and who we become,letting it be the consequences.
You say, and I think flippingthe sequence feels really
(35:23):
critical.
It's not you chase this, youget it and then you become
better or more successful or amore holistic person.
It's not if this, then I become, that, it's flipping that
equation or flipping thatsequence and saying, no, let me
become that first and really getto know my purpose and how I
(35:47):
want to show up in this world,how I want to feel, and then let
everything else sort of be abyproduct of that.
And, as you said in thebeginning, I just imagine the
ripple effect of that type ofimpact as well, as we impact our
employees or our teammates andthat ripples out to their
families and their communitiesand beyond, and that to me feels
(36:11):
much more like an ecosystem orjust a system that is built on
love, generosity, reciprocity.
You talked a lot about mutualismearlier as well, and I can see
all of those quote unquotesymptoms, if you will, of that
(36:31):
sort of way of being becomingpossible, and I don't think that
those things are possible.
These more purpose centeredorganizations, like you gave in
this example with Best Buy.
I don't know that those typesof outcomes are possible in the
model that we've been operatingin, and so I also want to ask
(36:54):
the question, because there canbe so much attachment to our own
fears that it can feel so realin our minds, right.
So how can we let go of the oldway of doing things without
fear and really kind of trustthis inside out approach for
(37:15):
anyone who's afraid to do thatand to kind of take that leap or
make that shift?
What?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
would you say to them ?
But I think what would I say tothem is it's fine, you know,
because it's fine that it islike this, I mean, it's normal
that it is like this.
I mean, I think the first wayto approach this is it's fine,
(37:44):
and the second is it's fine as astarting point is not that
there, but the direction must bea different direction.
Now that direction must bestructured in a way that it is
gradual, because you know, weare all different, people are
different.
But, to be honest with you, youknow, I've experienced board
(38:08):
meetings, I've experiencedvirtual events with unknown
people, where people share themost intimate fragilities just
after half an hour, okay.
So, yes, the key is to targetleaders, because then from
leaders, you have a rippleeffect downwards, and so the key
(38:32):
is to create safe spaces forleaders to change.
Okay, and those spaces shouldbe structured in a way where you
know it is gradual, okay.
And when it is gradual, thenpeople little by little open up.
Okay.
(38:54):
Sometimes one of the things thatI do is to get speech about
vulnerability to boards.
Okay, so I go and talk aboutvulnerability half an hour, and
half an hour and half an hour Iactually share my deepest
fragility, and then I ask themto share this.
(39:14):
99% of people share it half anhour, okay.
So it's not.
You know, your mind, our mind,my mind, your mind is protective
.
It is built to protect yourself, okay, it is created to protect
(39:35):
yourself.
So it sends you thoughts.
This is impossible, this isrisky, this is fearful, this is
like a counter.
It is the mind.
The mind is like, you know,like you have an arm, a leg,
okay, you have a mind.
You're not your mind.
You have a mind, okay, so yourmind sends you thoughts.
(39:59):
Okay, most of those thoughtsare protected, and so it's
normal you have some kind ofresistance when you're asking
people to.
You know, share fragilities, butthe reality is that people are
just looking forward.
They desire to be in thosespaces.
So it can happen that they arein that space but they don't
(40:22):
open up.
You know what will happen Forsure.
Maybe they don't open up, butfor sure they will say I'm sorry
, I can't.
Now that I'm sorry, I can't,which I get sometimes in those
kinds of events with boards,okay, values, even more than
(40:43):
sharing the vulnerability,because that's a first step,
okay, and then what they willsee is that they will see other
people doing it and they willsee how they feel and they will
see the effects, and they willsee all these, and so next time,
in the second opportunity, theywill do a little bit, and then
(41:03):
a little bit more, and then alittle bit more, and then a
little bit more.
You know, but this is how ithappens.
So, providing something thatgradually allows them to open up
, to be vulnerable, it's a way.
The best way that you can dothis and therefore create that
(41:26):
safe space that allowsgraduality is by example, by
example.
You know the reason why thosepeople share intimate
fragilities and end up crying orhugging.
You know, it is an incrediblehuman experience that I live
every time.
Okay, it's because I go thereand be myself, it is because I
(41:51):
go there and share my fragility.
And so, you know, somehow thisis contagious, because humanity
is contagious Wherever you go.
You know, wherever you go, Ihad experiences of what you may
think, that the worst, the mostmaterial people on earth, even
(42:17):
sitting up there, prime Minister, I had experiences.
Okay, that you know, alldifferent people are the same,
exactly the same.
It works this way.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, we are all human, definitely, and I love
thinking about fragility orvulnerability as contagious as
well and kind of being boldenough to go first and to really
model that and be the livinginvitation to others to discover
(42:49):
their own vulnerability,because it sounds like you're
really in going first and kindof modeling this behavior,
modeling this authenticity.
You're making it safe for themto do that too.
And we are creatures of mimicryin a lot of ways, right, we
mimic behavior that we like, wemimic people that we like, we
learn by observing how others dothings.
(43:11):
It's a very even though we getto move at our own pace, as you
were saying, and everyone'sgoing to be a bit different
because of our uniqueintersectionality and the maybe,
the traumas that we've had orthe past that we have, whatever
it might be, we all get to moveat our own pace.
And so I'm hearing, you know, wedon't need to steamroll that,
we don't need to force ourselvesto be more vulnerable than
(43:35):
we're ready for or to be, to putourselves in these spaces of
vulnerability before we're readyto do that or before we feel
safe enough to do that.
We can curate spaces thatelicit that and, at the same
time, what I'm hearing too inwhat you're saying is it seems
like this modeling is a way tosort of accelerate the opening
(44:01):
up, not in a forced way, but ina very organic way, where maybe
someone is going along at theirnatural pace but there's sort of
this moment of opportunitywhere they could do something
that would, in another space,feel uncomfortable or maybe feel
out of the norm.
So I love this idea of beingreally conscious of not only the
(44:25):
spaces that we, as leaders,curate, but making sure that we
end up in the spaces that curateus too, because it goes both
ways.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yes, you know the word the press, the media, the
computer, these that you knowit's always the leader has to
the leader.
But the reality is that what ismissing?
You know, look as a CEO, okay,myself, yes, you know you have
to give positive feedback andpeople and this and that, yes,
(44:57):
it's true.
But you know what I wouldn'tlike somebody coming here and
saying, oh, you've done a greatjob.
You know, the reality is thatwhen you are number one, there's
nobody to do this.
Okay, so that's why the placeof the leader is, I say,
solitude and loneliness and soon.
But the reality is it is crucialthat they, you know, do this
(45:23):
change, because then there is aripple effect downwards.
Okay, and this graduality, again, to try and give you know your
team, okay, you sit on a monthlybasis and, you know, start
talking about you know myself,my team, my company, you know
all of this and just, you knowupdate and say, okay, what's in
(45:47):
the last month?
What is the worst feeling I had?
What is the best feeling I had?
And then you say, okay, thiswas caused by this event and
this event, instead of you know,talking events, talk an
emotional update.
You know that's a very easy wayto instigate that change
(46:09):
because when you start talkingemotions, you start getting
inside, okay, and it's easierthan sharing your most intimate
fragility.
But it is maybe easier if yousit with other people and say,
oh, this month I felt angrybecause of this and you know, I
(46:32):
feel a little bit withoutenergies but feel emotions.
Emotional updates okay, good,bad, good, bad, insecure my work
, you know, my team, my company,etc.
That's a practical example ofhow you can start changing that.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah, it reminds me.
I'm part of this group calledthe Old Girls Club and it's all
mostly female.
Well, I guess it is all femaleor identifying as female
executives, business owners,founders, and there's a channel
in the Slack group that iscalled how Are you Doing Really?
And it's amazing to me thateven in an online space, even in
(47:17):
a virtual space, there's beenthis community there's about
1200 women at this point thatthe way the host has kind of
curated the people, but alsoit's the questions that she asks
as well and the differentchannels that she invites us
into.
And there's so many of us whoare either solopreneurs or CEOs
(47:40):
and we're facing exactly thishuman challenge that you're
naming of solitude, loneliness,and so it's amazing to me like
we'll turn to this Slack channel, this virtual community, to
really share how Are you DoingReally, and it's all emotional
based updates and we get to hearthe vulnerabilities there, and
(48:03):
I've learned so much fromwitnessing others in their
vulnerability and I've really,over the years and maybe you've
seen this too I've reallyadopted this belief that we as
leaders are more and morebecoming space facilitators.
(48:23):
We kind of have this, I think ofit, as like a sacred
responsibility to ask betterquestions, whether those
questions are human or based ininnovation and visioning, and it
sort of invites everyone tohave a seat at the table and
it's kind of this new vision ofwhat a leader even is, and so
(48:46):
I'm kind of curious to go there.
Next, as we sort of wrap up isas you look at the way not only
the way leadership has evolvedthroughout your journey as a
leader and now in the ways thatyou're supporting other leaders,
like I know, you talk a lotabout leading four leaders or
leaders for leaders, and in theexample you gave, we could
(49:08):
really see that when you lookahead to the future and this,
this mix of emerging tech and AI, potentially increased
complexity and uncertainty whatdo you see the future role of
leaders being and what are someof the most coveted skills that
(49:29):
you would hope they have?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
The more we somehow decide that the direction is
tech, so AI, because this is thedirection the less humanity
apparently is present andtherefore the more humanity
becomes the changemaking skillof leaders.
(49:51):
And a friend of mine recentlyasked it's funny this a friend
recently asked what will be thetype of human intelligences for
AI that would be least likelyfor AI to surpass humans?
(50:12):
Okay, now the answer from chatGPT has been five intelligences.
So the first one is bodily,kinesthetic intelligence, the
second one is naturalisticintelligence, the third one is
(50:34):
existential intelligence, thefourth one is interpersonal
intelligence and the fifth oneis interpersonal intelligence.
Okay, so, to summarize,awareness of your body,
awareness of nature, awarenessof your values, your identity.
(50:56):
So the reason why you exist,why do you exist?
Okay, the awareness of theother person, interpersonal and
interpersonal is self-awareness.
Okay, so not me.
Chat GPT seems to tell me thatthe skill that they will not get
(51:20):
is awareness, self, not onlyself-awareness, awareness in
general.
So I don't say this.
I've been told by chat GPT thatthis is where the direction
that we are going, which meansinner to me.
(51:42):
Okay, so the direction is inner.
So anything inner is leadershipskill of the future.
For me, the leadership skill ofthe future is awareness, and
part of this awareness isself-awareness, and so I see in
the future, that's the directionwhere leadership will go.
(52:04):
So more human skill, thedevelopment of human skill, will
be crucial, etc.
Etc and everything that wetalked about why?
Because anything that happensis evolving.
It is meant to be to bring us abetter state of being.
(52:30):
Even AI that you may fear andthat somehow you know, anything
that comes, it is to bring us toa better state as a community,
globally.
So everything that happensglobally and personally, it's
exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
I believe that too, really to my core, that it's a
journey of constant evolution,and I love that even AI is
telling us that really, themagic and the beauty of being
human is our humanity.
It is our sentience.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
So AI tells me that the skill I should focus on are
those ones.
Okay, so this is what it is andit makes sense.
It makes sense, to be honest inthe sense that it is more and
more scarce.
We say more tech, more tech,more tech, more tech.
(53:32):
So less human, less human.
So by saying that, the realityis that human becomes the
changemaking skill, and so thisis how the world will evolve, in
a more positive way, because AIstress human skills, so we will
focus on those human skills andtherefore, when we focus on
(53:54):
human skills, the world will bea better place in the future.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, and the tech really gives us the space to be
able to do a lot of that innerwork, because I think leaders
and really anyone in Westernwork culture, there's been kind
of a scarcity of time and ascarcity of energy if we're
operating from burnout orfatigue, and there hasn't been
(54:22):
as much space as there seems tobe now to really look at these
things.
And we also have the reflectionof these big worldly events that
invite us to really reflect onour humanity and how do we want
to show up for ourselves andeach other and what needs to
actually go into that, whatneeds to go into my ability,
(54:42):
cultivating my very ability toshow up to hard things, or more
human based conversation?
And yeah, there's, I thinkthere's so much really beautiful
human based self responsibilitythat we get to have.
That isn't a burden but it's anevolutionary opportunity.
And so I've, yeah, I've enjoyedthis conversation with you so
(55:05):
much and I really share and holdthis, this same vision for the
future and evolving into abetter, a better space for
ourselves and, I guess, want toleave listeners with any
opportunities.
If they've really beenresonating with what you're
saying, where can they find you?
How can they learn more and bein your presence more.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Well, it's very easy.
Visit my website,GerardoSegatcom.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Beautiful.
I love yes, I love thesimplicity of that.
It's clarity.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It's very easy, yes, and you know if I can leave your
audience with a suggestioncoming from the heart is there
is a path that is is beingcreated for each of us and it is
that path.
(56:03):
It is a path that is able togive all the positive and
everything that we like.
What we need to do is,unfortunately, we don't have a
system of education, we don'thave a word that works, that
(56:24):
takes us and put us on that path.
You know straight away, sincethe beginning.
So my, my suggestion, from myartist to each one of them out
there, is to actively go andlook for that path in whatever
(56:45):
way you think.
Coach, you know, whatever isthe way that you decide, but
take some time to check thatwhatever direction you are going
is your direction and if itisn't, then move on to find what
it.
What is the direction?
I move on to that direction.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
What a beautiful place.
And invitation to to concludethis conversation, of inviting
us to sort of lead ourselveshome and be on this path.
So thank you for bringing ushome to that part of this
conversation and for being onthe show.
It's really been such a joy totraverse these topics with you
(57:28):
and to learn from yourperspectives.
Thank you again, Gerardo, forbeing on the show.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Thank you, Nicar, for giving voice to my thought.
Hey leaders, welcome back.
As you know, I get to have themost incredible conversations on
this show with leaders who arereally walking the talk,
embodying this new paradigm ofdoing business, and I'm coming
to you on the other side of thisconversation with our guest
today, gerardo Sagat, and I amjust absolutely filled on a sole
(00:21):
level with hope, love, visionfor what the future can hold for
us if we are able to show up inour authenticity and our
vulnerability.
There's a whole different setof outcomes or consequences that
naturally or organically comewhen we lead from this place.
Gerardo is really on a missionto humanize leadership and he
(00:47):
has this incredible way of goingfirst when it comes to modeling
vulnerability in safe spacesthat he's helping to curate for
other leaders, effectivelyinviting them into their own
authenticity and vulnerability,inviting them to embody these
skill sets that are morehuman-based or more
(01:09):
emotion-based, these skill setsthat are not gonna go away, even
as tech radically transformsour culture and our world.
We're going to need leaders whoare connected to their human
sentience and to their humanity.
Gerardo is really on a missionto help leaders uncover exactly
that.
In today's episode, gerardoshares some amazing real-world
(01:32):
examples, as well as someframeworks to really help us.
We explore topics likeovercoming our fear as leaders,
and Gerardo shares the top fourfears that when working with
leaders from around the globe,he has noticed that their fears
really boil down to these fourfears, and he shares what's
possible on the other side ofmoving through.
(01:53):
He also helps to paint thepicture of what becomes possible
in our lives and our companiesand teams when we live from a
place of radical positivity,radical humanity and radical
clarity.
Inside the episode we'll getinto what he really means by
each of these, with somepractical tips and examples for
(02:16):
how we can ground these into ourown day-to-day practices.
What I absolutely love aboutthis conversation with Gerardo
is that it acknowledges thatleadership is often an inner
journey.
First and foremost, goals thatwe set for ourselves as leaders
are not something that existsjust out there, these things
(02:37):
that we chase.
There is a deep sense of purposeand values-based goals that
exist in each and every one ofus that is unique and if we can
uncover these, so much becomespossible in the ripple effect of
the impact that we then have.
Gerardo also understands thatleaders are often faced with the
(02:58):
impossible task of navigatingthe old paradigm that is very
rooted in fear, in control, insome of the false beliefs that
leaders are supposed to have allthe answers or know it all, and
there's a level of isolationthat can happen, a level of
loneliness that can happen whenwe are leading on an island or
(03:22):
leading from the top of ahierarchy with no one to really
lean on and be vulnerable, withno one to really share what it
is that we're going throughbecause we have to hold this
illusion of having it allfigured out.
We have to wear these masks asleaders, but what happens if we,
(03:43):
as leaders, are models fortaking off this mask and
stepping into a new, authentic,humanized version of leadership
and of work?
That is what we get into insidetoday's conversation.
It was honestly so nourishingon a soul level, as I mentioned,
on a heart level, and I thinkyou'll really feel in your
(04:05):
bodies the difference betweenthe paradigm of leadership that
Gerardo is painting a picture ofversus the template of
leadership that we havetraditionally been sold in,
these more fear-basedorganizations rooted in scarcity
, rooted in hyper-individualismall these things that we see at
(04:26):
playing out at a global scaleand are leading us towards a
future that feels unsustainable.
Gerardo has a different modeland gives some practical ways to
understand when you're in thatmodel instead of the old
paradigm.
So, again, I can't wait to getinto this conversation.
I know you're gonna take somuch out of it.
(04:47):
Let's dive in, gerardo.
Thank you so much for beinghere and welcome to the Living
Leaders Podcast.
I know we have a lot topotentially get into today, just
given your experience and howyou're thinking about humanizing
work and bringing moreauthenticity into leadership,
and so thank you for being hereand going on this journey
(05:07):
together today.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And Nicole, thank you for inviting me to your podcast
.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
My pleasure, gerardo, I think, giving your vast
experience with entrepreneurshipbeing a chairman, being a CEO,
I mean you've sort of seenleadership from all different
vantage points and manydifferent scales of business and
of impact.
So I think where I'd love tostart today, learning about your
leadership journey and how yourdefinition of leadership or
(05:36):
success has evolved over time.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think we have to go back in the past.
Well, I come from, you know,I'm kind of one of those guys
who has taken a direction thatdid not belong to me.
Because of live events, I lostmy dad when I was six and my mom
when I was 15.
So didn't have any money, Studyat university was paying off my
(06:04):
study by organizing parties andclubs, et cetera.
So that somehow built withinmyself an idea of success that
was very much based on outerelements.
So, you know, I had in my bloodbeing an entrepreneur because
my dad was an entrepreneur, andso the idea of a successful
(06:30):
entrepreneur to me looked like,you know, big group, lots of
people, lots of offices, lots ofmoney, you know, lots of these
external signs.
So that is the direction I took.
And then what happened is thatonce I got there, I actually had
(06:51):
this strange feeling.
So okay, and you know what'snext?
First question, and second,also, you know, I was standing
in that position and saying, butthis is not so funny.
You know, this is not someaningful, this is not so
fulfilling.
And, to be honest, I was verylucky I reached that position,
(07:16):
because I guess maybe by now, ifI didn't, I would still be, you
know, pursuing that.
But you know, when I got there,I, you know, I had this kind of
feeling, so that somehow at thattime I actually decided I said,
(07:36):
okay, I'm gonna get rid of allthis, okay, and so I'm gonna
exit my business.
You know, I started a smallbusiness myself, a secretary in
a service office, and it becamea 400 people operation with 10
offices around the world, etcetera, et cetera.
So I sold back, I exited mybusiness, sold it back to my
(08:01):
partners, and I didn't know, tobe honest, what I was going to
do.
So it was a kind of leap in thedark.
And then, gradually, you know,little by little, then we went
into a completely differentdirection.
So I liked coaching and Ire-qualified as a coach.
(08:25):
You know, all these graduallyeven going, taking that
direction meant looking inside,okay, and start looking inside
myself.
So more inner than outer.
And so, to answer your question, the events, the way that my
(08:48):
career evolved and the way theleadership for me evolved, was
from outer to more inner, okay,and now, at this point, after I
changed, I exited my business in2016,.
So it's now seven years and nowit restarts going outside, but
(09:12):
from inside, so it's kind ofinside out, but that is the way
leadership changed.
For me, leadership is inner,it's not outer anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I love the recognition of that shift and
I'm reminded of this book Ithink it's called the Second
Mountain where it introducesthis concept of climbing the
first mountain of success andgetting to the top.
And we do this through all theconventional means necessary and
the traditional definitions ofsuccess that we've sort of been
(09:45):
enculturated into through ourculture, through our context,
through our upbringing, anythinglike this, and that actually
getting to the top of that givesus this vantage point of huh,
there is actually somethingmissing.
This is more hollow than I wouldhave thought.
Getting there is not actuallygetting there in the sense of
(10:06):
how we might want to feel.
And so I really resonate withyour story of getting through
some of that more traditionalsuccess climbing to the top, so
to speak, and then kind ofseeing wait a minute, there's
got to be something more hereand then being faced with that
choice to take a big leap offaith and I love that you went
(10:28):
for it and that you made thechange, because I think not
everyone does.
And the fact that taking thatleap of faith kind of brought
you to the more internal aspectsof leadership I think is really
beautiful and ripe for whereleadership seems to be going on
the planet, like you said, so Iwant to dive into that a little
(10:49):
bit, to just understand moreabout this inside out approach
to leadership.
What does this really mean toyou and what does this look like
in practice, as you've beenuncovering this inside out
approach?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Once you actually start doing it, because of
whatever reason mine was what Iexplained before Somehow you
start gradually smelling it andyou actually it's like eating a
nice plate of pasta or a badplate of pasta.
So you start, the taste, thesmell of it is much nicer and
(11:33):
therefore this invites you todiscover more, eat more, etc.
I think bottom line, what Ithink is crucial, is actually to
have objectives that are innerand not only outer, either to
have only inner objective or tohave inner and outer objectives.
(11:57):
Okay, by the way, the outerobjectives that you may want,
from my experience, are simplyoutcomes of what you do inside
of you, and so setting yourselfinner objectives, I think, is
very, very important for guidingyou in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I'm really hearing in what you're saying that when we
get in touch with that level ofattunement or that level of
values alignment withinourselves, that I love what you
said, that you can you develop ataste for it, you develop a
smell for it and you kind ofknow when you're in it.
And what I hear in what you'resaying is like we can trust that
(12:44):
, we can trust ourselves to knowthe difference and we can trust
ourselves to know when a goalis coming from that space, from
that values aligned space,coming from kind of the inside
out, as you said, instead ofmaybe just subscribing to a goal
or a narrative that we haveseen externally, that we adopt
(13:06):
because we think we should, orwe adopt because we think it's
going to give us the belongingthat we seek and yet often don't
know how to articulate that.
This is a big part of what we'reafter as human beings.
And so when I imagine goalscoming from this place of inner
(13:27):
alignment or values alignmentand I imagine a group of people
beginning to do that as well andkind of coming into this more
self aware space, thepossibilities feel really
endless to me as far as the typeof team or company that that
can evolve into.
And so I'm curious what you'veseen as far as multiple people
(13:49):
kind of coming together in thisself aware, values, aligned,
purpose driven, letting theirgoals come from the inside out,
like what becomes possible whenwe get to do that with others
who are committed to leadingfrom this way too, if that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
That's a big question .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I'm full of them.
I'm full of big questions.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
First, I wanted to give you a kind of a small
example.
Okay, yeah, because we aretalking very philosophical, but
the reality is then these cantranslate into practice.
So, very small example If youthink about your next important
meeting, okay, and you normallyhave objectives for that meeting
(14:41):
, I want to, you know, end upthe meeting with a contract
signed or we have, you know,those are always external Okay.
So if, together with this, or if, in to replace that outer
objective, you actually setyourself as a goal at the end of
(15:04):
the meeting, I want to feelexit, or I want to feel why that
often should even changes theway that you prepare the meeting
and what you're actually goingto do during that meeting, okay.
So that's a very, you know,practical example of when I say,
(15:24):
even in a tiny event, okay,just together, without the signs
, add an inside sign if you want, okay, how, I don't, I want to
end up the meeting.
What do I want to feel at theend of the meeting?
And I'm going to give you asecond example.
That's a little bit more,that's a bigger one, but it is
(15:50):
still something that you can do.
When you say inner objectives,you know, in our leadership,
daily life everybody, we, youknow, we shout we wear masks, we
blame, we ignore, we postpone,we destroy.
We you know, we judge, you knowall those behaviors, harmful
(16:16):
behaviors okay, we all have them, come from fears that we have.
Okay, so they are harmfuldefensive behavior from fears.
Now, what I did, and also whatI then, throughout the years,
did with my clients, is to tryand build up this pyramid to get
(16:40):
from those harmful behaviors tothe ultimate fears that are
causing these behaviors.
So, you know, continuouslyasking myself, okay, but why
this behavior?
Why this fear?
Because you might end up withfear, but those are not the
ultimate ones, there might beintermediate fears.
(17:00):
So I built up this pyramid andwhat I ended up is I ended up
with four fears.
So the four ultimate fears of aleader.
The first fear is beingmeaningless.
Okay, so no meaning in what youdo, no meaning in your life, in
(17:24):
yourself meaningless.
Second fear, big fear, isloneliness, so being lonely or
ending up alone.
The third fear is dependencyFrom something or from somebody,
today or in the future.
(17:45):
And the fourth one isuncertainty.
So those are the four ultimatefears of a leader.
We all have them, at justdifferent intensity, a different
level, okay, so now you know,in an easy way, if you flip
(18:08):
those fears, you come to what Icall the inner treasures of a
leader.
So meaning love, freedom andcertainty.
So those are the innertreasures.
Only every leader has theminside.
They just need to go and lookand find them With an inner
(18:36):
journey.
So that's another example.
So myself, today, I Set myselfmy objectives are meaning love,
freedom, certainty.
When you set yourself this kindof inner objective, the
decisions you take, what you do,how you see things Changes
(19:00):
completely Absolutely.
So this is to give youraudience a practical example
what to do.
So what I can do is actuallybuild this pyramid yourself and
get to those ultimate fears,flip them and then you see what
kind of inner objectives you canhave.
(19:21):
To answer your question aboutwhat can happen, I think you
know lots happens Individually,okay, and therefore lots can
happen at in any community wherethe individual is a part of
(19:41):
Individually.
I can tell you Probably the Twovery strong things,
consequences effects Well, threeI think.
One is radical positivity.
So when you, your life is, whenyou are authentic, when you are
(20:04):
vulnerable, when you are havedeep authenticity, when you have
a purpose in life, you knowwhat happens is that you always
look at a positive side ofthings always and you that that
says, you know, if you see aperson that is like that, it's a
clear sign that there'ssomething inside.
(20:25):
You know the deeply authentichuman connection.
Purpose exit, even the the mostnegative, even the most
negative.
The second is Radical humanity.
(20:45):
So all those human skills thatwe call soft skills, that in
reality I don't know why we callsoft, because they are human
Empathy, gratitude, you knowyour, your name, everything very
strong in in the person.
(21:06):
And the third one, which is theone that I personally like the
most, is Radical clarity.
So you know we talk aboutintuition, you know something
inside, so and somehow we say,okay, go and listen to your
intuition and act According toyour intuition.
(21:28):
Somehow it's like an innervoice.
If you want, that is, hmm, youknow, there is sometimes
distance or there is fogcollided the way you want inside
that you can't see and you heara little voice Saying you
something Okay, that is yourself, your inner, okay, that is your
(21:49):
, your inner human being tellingyou things.
Okay.
So you say, okay, follow that.
So intuition exists becausethere is no, because there is no
connection with a human, innerhuman being.
You know we call it intuition.
The reality is when there isconnection, it turns into
clarity.
So people who are deeplyconnected, people who are
(22:15):
Authentic, people who arevulnerable, people who have a
purpose in the life they are,they have this radical clarity.
Now what the consequence ofradical clarity is that With
radical clarity you createmagical spaces.
Okay, so the leader who hasradical clarity Creates magical
(22:41):
spaces.
Those are, I don't know,win-win scenarios.
So in any kind of situationthey go a difficult negotiation,
management in the company theycreate win-win scenarios.
Okay, they're able to see andspot what is the win-win
(23:02):
scenario.
That is always there.
Sometimes we don't see it, butif we have this radical clarity,
then we are able to spotimmediately.
The second type I've seen isimpossible to possible.
So something that looksimpossible, turn it into
possible.
Those are the kind of magicalspaces that I call magical
(23:25):
spaces, because then you knowthey spread positivity all
around.
And you know these people.
They are simply they are light.
You know they are like shiningstars.
So they they spread light allover because it is contagious.
Then the effect is justspreading all of that around
(23:46):
them.
So the same goes to the people,so to the team, and from the
team it goes to the families andit goes to you know, it just
spreads because you know I tellyou one thing, and sorry if I
talk too much, but this isbeautiful Thank you people, any
people, and leaders Are justlooking forward to find
(24:11):
themselves in two scenarioswhere they can be the true self.
Anyone is looking forward,Desperately looking forward to
be in a situation where they canbe themselves.
Now, if you think about leaders, Okay, well, you know we demand
(24:32):
from leaders, you know we askthem to have human skills, we
ask them to.
They are on the spotlight andtherefore they are subject to
judgment and if more than anyone, okay, those people are in
situations where it's not easyTo be the true self.
(24:55):
What we demand from leadersthey, where we put them Somehow
Leads them To be lonely.
You know it's, it's a solitudeposition of that, this desire to
be in situation where you canbe yourself.
(25:16):
It applies to everyone, butfully.
This in particular, Okay, andthe you know, nowadays this is
coming out.
I can give you an example ofthis.
I am a member of thisorganization called YPO, Young
(25:40):
President Organization.
It's a community that wasfounded 70 years ago in the US
and it's now the largestcommunity of CEO and leaders
worldwide 35,000 people in 140countries.
Now they've done a survey.
(26:01):
They've asked what is numberone reason for your membership?
Okay, we're talking about thecommunity of CEOs.
What is the number one reasonfor your membership?
And the answer has been.
I will explain to you what itis.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It really points to what you were saying about
loneliness as well, and what Ihave been really feeling, as
you've been speaking soprofoundly, is that if we really
distill this down to a patternslevel insight, it feels like
(26:40):
the difference between leadingfrom fear and leading from love.
And when I think about the fourfears that you mentioned and
really facing those and gettinginto this space of radical
positivity, humanity and clarity, there's a relaxation in a lot
(27:03):
of that too, in fully being inour humanness, our clarity of
purpose, relaxing into trustingthat things will work out when
we align and when we connectauthentically, and so I can see
how organizations that are beingled from these aspects of
(27:26):
radical positivity, humanity andclarity.
There's almost a relaxing intothe ability to be authentic and
the ability to stay connected toour intuition, as you were
saying.
Like I was really feeling, wow,there's something about that.
When we're connected andattuned to that more intuitive
(27:46):
intelligence, that's maybealways available, but if we're
in a fear state, we sort ofblock access to it.
And I think about one of theother fears that you mentioned
of uncertainty and how we are atsuch a time when leaders are,
as you said, expected to dothese impossible things to
(28:07):
navigate complexity anduncertainty, to have the answers
, to be able to unlock the fullpotential of their team.
It's like what does that evenmean?
Like these are impossiblescenarios for anyone leader to
hold.
And yet, if we can kind of letthat go, trust the intuition to
(28:29):
guide us, trust ourselves toreally see the authenticity or
the potential in other people,the solutions that come from
that open receptivity, asopposed to the solutions or
ideas that come from thatcontracted fear state of how I
think we're running many of ourorganizations today.
(28:50):
It feels so different in mybody, right.
So I'm also reminded of whatyou said in the beginning of the
conversation, of this issomething you really learn to
smell and taste and feel thedifference in your body, even
energetically.
And so, as you've been speaking,I've just really noticed that
in these two comparisons, and itdoesn't surprise me that this
(29:16):
global organization of CEOs aremost needing these safe spaces I
know that's a term that's oftenoverused and abused these days
of creating safe space, but aplace where they can really beat
themselves, take the mask off,where it's okay not to have the
answer.
It's okay to be a whole humanand be going through a divorce
(29:38):
or having an infant child andtrying to lead a company where
you've got one team member who'sstruggling with alcohol or drug
abuse.
It's like the human nature ofwhat we face.
We often don't have the spaceinside our organizations to move
through that and it feels and Iknow you say this in some of
(29:58):
your material this emotionsfocused approach to teams and
really being in the desiredfeeling state and then letting
your behavior or your actioncome from that.
So there's just so much thatyou're talking about.
That is a wild paradigm shiftfrom the fear-based organization
(30:19):
into this open and receptiveclarity of purpose and I yeah,
I'm just soaking it all in andlove how you've articulated what
becomes possible in all of thattoo.
I'll just leave the floor openfor whatever is maybe still
percolating in you around eitherthese fears or the emotions
(30:43):
focused team building and whatyou're seeing in that space.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, I want to tell you one thing now, because one
of the things that normallypeople say you know it's you
know you can be successful.
Without that you can reachsuccess, and that is true now,
well, external.
So if you can get to or reachexternal goals if you want, you
(31:11):
don't actually need that, butthe reason why you need it is
that at a certain point in yourlife, if you only focus on
external, there will be onemoment and the latest will be
just before you die that youregret, that you will have
(31:33):
resentments.
Okay.
So, if you know, taking care ofyour inner, looking your inner,
knowing, being cautious, etc.
Allows you to avoid that at acertain point in life, whatever
(31:54):
your life events are.
Number two is do you know whatyou're missing?
If you actually add that?
Okay, and I'm going to give anexample.
There is a beautiful book that Irecommend to you and your
audience, called the Heart ofBusiness, and it is written by a
guy called Uberjouli.
(32:14):
He's a French guy but who about10 years ago, was called a CEO
of an American group, best Buy,a large consumer electronics.
The book talks about this story.
Okay, and I recommend itbecause it has a lot of
practical examples and it tellsthe story of this guy who was
(32:39):
called to become the CEO of BestBuy.
At the time, best Buy wasalmost bankrupt.
So what he did?
He came in and placed humanconnection and purpose at the
center of the business.
What happened is, after a fewyears, the stock price
multiplied by 11.
It is one of the most totescases taught in business schools
(33:06):
, one of the most famous turnaround in business history.
Okay, so it's not that it isnice.
Okay, it is nice.
And it also reflects onexternal signs.
So we don't forget the outcomes.
But the outcomes are a simpleconsequence.
(33:27):
Okay, but they're there.
And you may think, oh, yes, Ican reach success, but the
question is, what are you ableto reach?
What would you be able to reachif you looked inside and had a
kind of inside out life, etc.
(33:48):
I can tell you my example.
I can tell you that, lookingoutside became a successful
entrepreneur.
Build up a group, 400 people,10 offices around the world, etc
.
Okay, impacted 400 people.
(34:08):
Today, I created a show whichis called Out as Humans.
It is featured at World LeaderConvention, okay, and the aims
are creating that safe spacethat you talked before for
(34:29):
leaders to open up to bevulnerable, take out their mask,
etc.
Etc.
So impact the world.
Okay.
So the change that happened tome by going in there is impact
400 people.
Yes, maybe I could have doneyou know little acquisitions
(34:51):
here.
There become more.
You know thousands.
Imagine thousands of peopleimpact the world in the other
way.
That's my experience.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, that's really a shift away from chasing goals
externally as well and lettingit sort of be the byproduct of
how we live and who we become,letting it be the consequences.
You say, and I think flippingthe sequence feels really
(35:23):
critical.
It's not you chase this, youget it and then you become
better or more successful or amore holistic person.
It's not if this, then I become, that, it's flipping that
equation or flipping thatsequence and saying, no, let me
become that first and really getto know my purpose and how I
(35:47):
want to show up in this world,how I want to feel, and then let
everything else sort of be abyproduct of that.
And, as you said in thebeginning, I just imagine the
ripple effect of that type ofimpact as well, as we impact our
employees or our teammates andthat ripples out to their
families and their communitiesand beyond, and that to me feels
(36:11):
much more like an ecosystem orjust a system that is built on
love, generosity, reciprocity.
You talked a lot about mutualismearlier as well, and I can see
all of those quote unquotesymptoms, if you will, of that
(36:31):
sort of way of being becomingpossible, and I don't think that
those things are possible.
These more purpose centeredorganizations, like you gave in
this example with Best Buy.
I don't know that those typesof outcomes are possible in the
model that we've been operatingin, and so I also want to ask
(36:54):
the question, because there canbe so much attachment to our own
fears that it can feel so realin our minds, right.
So how can we let go of the oldway of doing things without
fear and really kind of trustthis inside out approach for
(37:15):
anyone who's afraid to do thatand to kind of take that leap or
make that shift?
What?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
would you say to them ?
But I think what would I say tothem is it's fine, you know,
because it's fine that it islike this, I mean, it's normal
that it is like this.
I mean, I think the first wayto approach this is it's fine,
(37:44):
and the second is it's fine as astarting point is not that
there, but the direction must bea different direction.
Now that direction must bestructured in a way that it is
gradual, because you know, weare all different, people are
different.
But, to be honest with you, youknow, I've experienced board
(38:08):
meetings, I've experiencedvirtual events with unknown
people, where people share themost intimate fragilities just
after half an hour, okay.
So, yes, the key is to targetleaders, because then from
leaders, you have a rippleeffect downwards, and so the key
(38:32):
is to create safe spaces forleaders to change.
Okay, and those spaces shouldbe structured in a way where you
know it is gradual, okay.
And when it is gradual, thenpeople little by little open up.
Okay.
(38:54):
Sometimes one of the things thatI do is to get speech about
vulnerability to boards.
Okay, so I go and talk aboutvulnerability half an hour, and
half an hour and half an hour Iactually share my deepest
fragility, and then I ask themto share this.
(39:14):
99% of people share it half anhour, okay.
So it's not.
You know, your mind, our mind,my mind, your mind is protective
.
It is built to protect yourself, okay, it is created to protect
(39:35):
yourself.
So it sends you thoughts.
This is impossible, this isrisky, this is fearful, this is
like a counter.
It is the mind.
The mind is like, you know,like you have an arm, a leg,
okay, you have a mind.
You're not your mind.
You have a mind, okay, so yourmind sends you thoughts.
(39:59):
Okay, most of those thoughtsare protected, and so it's
normal you have some kind ofresistance when you're asking
people to.
You know, share fragilities, butthe reality is that people are
just looking forward.
They desire to be in thosespaces.
So it can happen that they arein that space but they don't
(40:22):
open up.
You know what will happen Forsure.
Maybe they don't open up, butfor sure they will say I'm sorry
, I can't.
Now that I'm sorry, I can't,which I get sometimes in those
kinds of events with boards,okay, values, even more than
(40:43):
sharing the vulnerability,because that's a first step,
okay, and then what they willsee is that they will see other
people doing it and they willsee how they feel and they will
see the effects, and they willsee all these, and so next time,
in the second opportunity, theywill do a little bit, and then
(41:03):
a little bit more, and then alittle bit more, and then a
little bit more.
You know, but this is how ithappens.
So, providing something thatgradually allows them to open up
, to be vulnerable, it's a way.
The best way that you can dothis and therefore create that
(41:26):
safe space that allowsgraduality is by example, by
example.
You know the reason why thosepeople share intimate
fragilities and end up crying orhugging.
You know, it is an incrediblehuman experience that I live
every time.
Okay, it's because I go thereand be myself, it is because I
(41:51):
go there and share my fragility.
And so, you know, somehow thisis contagious, because humanity
is contagious Wherever you go.
You know, wherever you go, Ihad experiences of what you may
think, that the worst, the mostmaterial people on earth, even
(42:17):
sitting up there, prime Minister, I had experiences.
Okay, that you know, alldifferent people are the same,
exactly the same.
It works this way.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, we are all human, definitely, and I love
thinking about fragility orvulnerability as contagious as
well and kind of being boldenough to go first and to really
model that and be the livinginvitation to others to discover
(42:49):
their own vulnerability,because it sounds like you're
really in going first and kindof modeling this behavior,
modeling this authenticity.
You're making it safe for themto do that too.
And we are creatures of mimicryin a lot of ways, right, we
mimic behavior that we like, wemimic people that we like, we
learn by observing how others dothings.
(43:11):
It's a very even though we getto move at our own pace, as you
were saying, and everyone'sgoing to be a bit different
because of our uniqueintersectionality and the maybe,
the traumas that we've had orthe past that we have, whatever
it might be, we all get to moveat our own pace.
And so I'm hearing, you know, wedon't need to steamroll that,
we don't need to force ourselvesto be more vulnerable than
(43:35):
we're ready for or to be, to putourselves in these spaces of
vulnerability before we're readyto do that or before we feel
safe enough to do that.
We can curate spaces thatelicit that and, at the same
time, what I'm hearing too inwhat you're saying is it seems
like this modeling is a way tosort of accelerate the opening
(44:01):
up, not in a forced way, but ina very organic way, where maybe
someone is going along at theirnatural pace but there's sort of
this moment of opportunitywhere they could do something
that would, in another space,feel uncomfortable or maybe feel
out of the norm.
So I love this idea of beingreally conscious of not only the
(44:25):
spaces that we, as leaders,curate, but making sure that we
end up in the spaces that curateus too, because it goes both
ways.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yes, you know the word the press, the media, the
computer, these that you knowit's always the leader has to
the leader.
But the reality is that what ismissing?
You know, look as a CEO, okay,myself, yes, you know you have
to give positive feedback andpeople and this and that, yes,
(44:57):
it's true.
But you know what I wouldn'tlike somebody coming here and
saying, oh, you've done a greatjob.
You know, the reality is thatwhen you are number one, there's
nobody to do this.
Okay, so that's why the placeof the leader is, I say,
solitude and loneliness and soon.
But the reality is it is crucialthat they, you know, do this
(45:23):
change, because then there is aripple effect downwards.
Okay, and this graduality, again, to try and give you know your
team, okay, you sit on a monthlybasis and, you know, start
talking about you know myself,my team, my company, you know
all of this and just, you knowupdate and say, okay, what's in
(45:47):
the last month?
What is the worst feeling I had?
What is the best feeling I had?
And then you say, okay, thiswas caused by this event and
this event, instead of you know,talking events, talk an
emotional update.
You know that's a very easy wayto instigate that change
(46:09):
because when you start talkingemotions, you start getting
inside, okay, and it's easierthan sharing your most intimate
fragility.
But it is maybe easier if yousit with other people and say,
oh, this month I felt angrybecause of this and you know, I
(46:32):
feel a little bit withoutenergies but feel emotions.
Emotional updates okay, good,bad, good, bad, insecure my work
, you know, my team, my company,etc.
That's a practical example ofhow you can start changing that.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah, it reminds me.
I'm part of this group calledthe Old Girls Club and it's all
mostly female.
Well, I guess it is all femaleor identifying as female
executives, business owners,founders, and there's a channel
in the Slack group that iscalled how Are you Doing Really?
And it's amazing to me thateven in an online space, even in
(47:17):
a virtual space, there's beenthis community there's about
1200 women at this point thatthe way the host has kind of
curated the people, but alsoit's the questions that she asks
as well and the differentchannels that she invites us
into.
And there's so many of us whoare either solopreneurs or CEOs
(47:40):
and we're facing exactly thishuman challenge that you're
naming of solitude, loneliness,and so it's amazing to me like
we'll turn to this Slack channel, this virtual community, to
really share how Are you DoingReally, and it's all emotional
based updates and we get to hearthe vulnerabilities there, and
(48:03):
I've learned so much fromwitnessing others in their
vulnerability and I've really,over the years and maybe you've
seen this too I've reallyadopted this belief that we as
leaders are more and morebecoming space facilitators.
(48:23):
We kind of have this, I think ofit, as like a sacred
responsibility to ask betterquestions, whether those
questions are human or based ininnovation and visioning, and it
sort of invites everyone tohave a seat at the table and
it's kind of this new vision ofwhat a leader even is, and so
(48:46):
I'm kind of curious to go there.
Next, as we sort of wrap up isas you look at the way not only
the way leadership has evolvedthroughout your journey as a
leader and now in the ways thatyou're supporting other leaders,
like I know, you talk a lotabout leading four leaders or
leaders for leaders, and in theexample you gave, we could
(49:08):
really see that when you lookahead to the future and this,
this mix of emerging tech and AI, potentially increased
complexity and uncertainty whatdo you see the future role of
leaders being and what are someof the most coveted skills that
(49:29):
you would hope they have?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
The more we somehow decide that the direction is
tech, so AI, because this is thedirection the less humanity
apparently is present andtherefore the more humanity
becomes the changemaking skillof leaders.
(49:51):
And a friend of mine recentlyasked it's funny this a friend
recently asked what will be thetype of human intelligences for
AI that would be least likelyfor AI to surpass humans?
(50:12):
Okay, now the answer from chatGPT has been five intelligences.
So the first one is bodily,kinesthetic intelligence, the
second one is naturalisticintelligence, the third one is
(50:34):
existential intelligence, thefourth one is interpersonal
intelligence and the fifth oneis interpersonal intelligence.
Okay, so, to summarize,awareness of your body,
awareness of nature, awarenessof your values, your identity.
(50:56):
So the reason why you exist,why do you exist?
Okay, the awareness of theother person, interpersonal and
interpersonal is self-awareness.
Okay, so not me.
Chat GPT seems to tell me thatthe skill that they will not get
(51:20):
is awareness, self, not onlyself-awareness, awareness in
general.
So I don't say this.
I've been told by chat GPT thatthis is where the direction
that we are going, which meansinner to me.
(51:42):
Okay, so the direction is inner.
So anything inner is leadershipskill of the future.
For me, the leadership skill ofthe future is awareness, and
part of this awareness isself-awareness, and so I see in
the future, that's the directionwhere leadership will go.
(52:04):
So more human skill, thedevelopment of human skill, will
be crucial, etc.
Etc and everything that wetalked about why?
Because anything that happensis evolving.
It is meant to be to bring us abetter state of being.
(52:30):
Even AI that you may fear andthat somehow you know, anything
that comes, it is to bring us toa better state as a community,
globally.
So everything that happensglobally and personally, it's
exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
I believe that too, really to my core, that it's a
journey of constant evolution,and I love that even AI is
telling us that really, themagic and the beauty of being
human is our humanity.
It is our sentience.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
So AI tells me that the skill I should focus on are
those ones.
Okay, so this is what it is andit makes sense.
It makes sense, to be honest inthe sense that it is more and
more scarce.
We say more tech, more tech,more tech, more tech.
(53:32):
So less human, less human.
So by saying that, the realityis that human becomes the
changemaking skill, and so thisis how the world will evolve, in
a more positive way, because AIstress human skills, so we will
focus on those human skills andtherefore, when we focus on
(53:54):
human skills, the world will bea better place in the future.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, and the tech really gives us the space to be
able to do a lot of that innerwork, because I think leaders
and really anyone in Westernwork culture, there's been kind
of a scarcity of time and ascarcity of energy if we're
operating from burnout orfatigue, and there hasn't been
(54:22):
as much space as there seems tobe now to really look at these
things.
And we also have the reflectionof these big worldly events that
invite us to really reflect onour humanity and how do we want
to show up for ourselves andeach other and what needs to
actually go into that, whatneeds to go into my ability,
(54:42):
cultivating my very ability toshow up to hard things, or more
human based conversation?
And yeah, there's, I thinkthere's so much really beautiful
human based self responsibilitythat we get to have.
That isn't a burden but it's anevolutionary opportunity.
And so I've, yeah, I've enjoyedthis conversation with you so
(55:05):
much and I really share and holdthis, this same vision for the
future and evolving into abetter, a better space for
ourselves and, I guess, want toleave listeners with any
opportunities.
If they've really beenresonating with what you're
saying, where can they find you?
How can they learn more and bein your presence more.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Well, it's very easy.
Visit my website,GerardoSegatcom.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Beautiful.
I love yes, I love thesimplicity of that.
It's clarity.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It's very easy, yes, and you know if I can leave your
audience with a suggestioncoming from the heart is there
is a path that is is beingcreated for each of us and it is
that path.
(56:03):
It is a path that is able togive all the positive and
everything that we like.
What we need to do is,unfortunately, we don't have a
system of education, we don'thave a word that works, that
(56:24):
takes us and put us on that path.
You know straight away, sincethe beginning.
So my, my suggestion, from myartist to each one of them out
there, is to actively go andlook for that path in whatever
(56:45):
way you think.
Coach, you know, whatever isthe way that you decide, but
take some time to check thatwhatever direction you are going
is your direction and if itisn't, then move on to find what
it.
What is the direction?
I move on to that direction.
Speaker 1 (57:07):
What a beautiful place.
And invitation to to concludethis conversation, of inviting
us to sort of lead ourselveshome and be on this path.
So thank you for bringing ushome to that part of this
conversation and for being onthe show.
It's really been such a joy totraverse these topics with you
(57:28):
and to learn from yourperspectives.
Thank you again, Gerardo, forbeing on the show.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Thank you, Nicar, for giving voice to my thought.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com