September 26, 2023 • 60 mins
Is feminine leadership the key to our future?
When it comes to co-creating a more sustainable and just future, it’s clear we need to do something different. We know that business as usual is broken, but what exactly are we transitioning into? What does the leadership of the future look like?
This is exactly what Klementina Karol and I explore in this episode of Living Leaders. Making the transition from conventional business practices to a more feminine, cyclical and regenerative version of business and lifestyle can be scary at first (not to mention our conditioning keeps us fearful of making such a change), but the results and rewards on the other side are nothing short of magic.
In this episode:
- The connection between purpose and pleasure
- Becoming more embodied in our leadership and decision making
- Healing our collective shadows and traumas to heal the current paradigm of work
- The raw truth and reality of transitioning away from traditional business practices
- Transforming our relationship to the masculine to discover the power of feminine leadership
Tune in as we uncover the immense potential of intuitive, heart-centered leadership. Discover how to tap into the wisdom of the feminine, integrate the shadow, and lead with compassion. Together, we can co-create a future that works for all.
About Klementina Karol
Klementina is a transformational coach, working at the forefront of sustainable transformation within and without, for the regeneration of our planet and its people.
She helps guide influential leaders to transmute conditionings and fears, so that they may lead as their most authentic, empowered, intuitive selves. Clients often comment that Klementina is precise with identifying and helping clear inner blocks and limitations. She’s served hundreds of clients to do this.
Klementina is the founder of EPIC Humans Collective and has experience as a Sustainability Consultant & Executive Coach.
Schedule 30 minutes with Klementina:
https://calendly.com/klementina
Connect with Klementina:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/klementinakarol
https://www.instagram.com/klementinakarol/
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If you want to be a more conscious leader or transition your business to a more regenerative model, visit us at:
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Meet our host, Nicole Bellisle:
https://www.nicolebellisle.com
https://www.youtube.com/nicolebellisle
https://www.instagram.com/nicolebellisle/
https://www.tiktok.com/@nicolebellisle
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey leaders, welcome back to another week of the
Living Leaders podcast.
Today I have with me ClementinaCarroll, who is honestly one of
the coolest, wisest humans thatI have come across, and I've
had the pleasure of workingdirectly with her as her client
for the past eight to ninemonths.
She has been helping me to divedeep into the shadows of my
(00:24):
being, really looking at thepatterns that I have been
operating my life and mybusiness from, and are those
patterns that I want to keep oram I ready to evolve?
We've gotten into some reallyjuicy territory when it comes to
childhood trauma and thebeliefs that I picked up from
the adults in my life or thesociety that I was brought up in
(00:45):
the ways that I've internalizedall of that.
She has this really magical way.
She is so gifted at identifyingthese patterns in a way that
feels safe to approach, in a waythat feels like it's coming
from love and not fixing.
She has been working with highimpactors and amazing humans
(01:08):
from around the world who areseeking to have high impact in
sustainability, in social impact.
She's really showing up to helpguide those who are ready to
step into the full potential oftheir leadership and leave
behind the wounds or the traumathat might be ready to be healed
(01:29):
.
I know that she has certainlyinvited me into a completely
different relationship withmyself, and I believe that by
the end of this episode, you toomight also begin to develop a
completely differentrelationship to leadership and
yourself.
In today's episode we get intosome amazing topics from the
connection between pleasure andpurpose, the actual pleasure
(01:53):
that we can derive from havingan embodied leadership practice.
We get into the power andreally the necessity of
conscious feminine leadershippractice.
For our current global context,it is so important that we
learn how to pause, how toconnect with our intuition, how
to listen to our bodies and notjust run our organizations from
(02:17):
our minds.
We look at some of the mostcommon collective traumas that
Clementina has been seeing amongher clients, including how
those traumas might show up aspatterns or even coping
mechanisms in our adult lives.
We get into the pattern, forexample, of working hard and
this story that we've boughtinto, that we must work hard in
(02:40):
order to be successful, in orderto get the love that we need,
and we also both vulnerablyshare what it's been like to
transition from a moreconventional model for
leadership and transition into amore feminine based approach to
leadership and running ourcompanies.
What are the results we've seenfrom that?
(03:01):
What has been challenging aboutthat?
We really open up about ourexperiences in making this
transition and in healingourselves in our own leadership
practice so that we can reallyshow up to the purpose that
calls us most.
Again, I just feel so honoredthat I even get to introduce you
(03:22):
to Clementina Carroll.
Even just being in her presenceand listening to the way that
she describes these currentchallenges that we face is
medicine.
So with that introductionyou're probably chomping at the
bit to hear what Clementina hasto say.
So I won't stand in your wayany longer.
Let's get right into today'sepisode.
(03:49):
Clementina, I am showing up withso much deep, deep gratitude in
my heart for you today andbeyond, really over the moon,
over the full moon today that wehave this conversation and
share some space for thelisteners who maybe don't know
this, clementina and I havequite a background together
(04:10):
because we've actually beenworking together at least eight
or nine months at this point,where Clementina has been an
amazing healing leadership coachfor me and has really helped me
to dive into some of theshadows in my own patterning,
really looking at the blueprintof my gifts but also all that
(04:32):
blocks me and all of the waysthat I was getting in my own way
, and we've done some remarkablehealing work together that has
quite literally shifted everyrelationship in my life but,
most importantly perhaps, myrelationship to myself and all
of the inner parts, the innerchild, the inner micromanager.
(04:52):
It has just been such a journeyand so I just wanted to share
that context with listeners,because we've had such powerful
experiences together and I knowwe're going to get into a lot of
these themes today as weexplore the evolving definition
of leadership and how to show upas the healed and fully
(05:13):
expressed versions of ourselvesin our leadership practice.
Incredibly grateful for thisconversation and for you being
here, clementina, and I want tostart by just inviting you to
share a bit from your heart ofanything relevant in your
background that you feel calledto share with listeners, and
what is really activating youthese days, what is most alive
(05:37):
for you and how your gifts arewanting to show up in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Thank you so much for that beautiful introduction.
It really warms my heart and,as also we did with the
grounding and took a few breathsbefore we pressed record, I
felt like the safety and theconnection.
So it's beautiful to be herewith you and there's so much
safety because we know eachother so well and we have done
that the deep work together.
(06:02):
So thank you for that andhaving me on your podcast, and
it is really aligned.
To you know, from the first daythat we met on LinkedIn, things
were very aligned.
We were like, oh wow, you'redoing that and you're doing that
and like, totally, it's been soaligned because both of us are
in sustainability andconsciousness and evolving
(06:25):
humanity in a hard light way.
So they're very aligned.
And what I want to share?
A few things that have been onmy mind recently and I think
they're also related to myexperience.
I'll just do like a few touchpoints on my kind of like
history.
I come from the corporate worldwhere I used to work in
(06:47):
multiple roles.
It was an interestingdevelopment because I learned so
much.
I value so much that experience.
Yet I remember that moment whenI was like running for the
train once and my heart was justpumping so fast and I was just
like putting myself always intothis like stress kind of like
(07:10):
situations you know, always likereally busy as a badge of honor
, always achieving as a badge ofhonor, always trying to prove
my worth, I would say as well.
So that culture of business andstress has been a little bit
alive in me these days becauseI'm really focusing and writing
about feminine leadership andwhy we need to actually get into
(07:32):
the body, because actually Irealized years after that my
body was not designed for thislifestyle of like always being
busy, achieving and having thiskind of, let's say, bosses in
the hierarchy who will like pushyou really like.
I remember my last position onbusiness development.
So I was working in for likeone of the biggest corporates in
(07:53):
the world in businessdevelopment and that was so
stressful and so demanding andso much not aligned to my values
actually in terms of how theleadership was, I see, in that
specific position.
So years after now, I'm stillhealing my nervous system and
I'm still coming out of thosestress responses in my body
(08:15):
because they've been soingrained in my body.
So that's just one of theinstances I feel that shape me
and help me transform because Irealized this is not worth it If
I have a heart attack at theage of 30, it is really not
worth it.
What happened after I started?
Really, I wanted to be in thefield of sustainability and I
had already been doing a lot ofwork on the side on that in that
(08:38):
industry.
So I started working on aUnenvironment Initiative for
coral reefs conservation and youknow, part of me like, even
though I felt I am doingdifference in the world,
something didn't feel fullyright, something didn't feel
fully embodied, or I also hadthis anxiety about how we're
going to make it as humanity.
(08:58):
Interestingly so, yeah, that'swhen I moved from Brussels to
the Philippines and thenactually I moved to Bali, and
that's when I met one person whoalso changed my life.
And so when I met Benjamin fromNeural Together, he was
researching around ourcollective traumas, fears and
beliefs which are at the rootcause of the collective
unsustainability, and so, havinghad that experience and
(09:22):
actually then continued workingwith him, it was really
interesting because I actuallystarted looking at myself on a
much deeper level than I hadbefore, so actually looked at my
traumas and I was like for thefirst time I realized, oh, I
actually didn't have a normalchildhood.
I mean I had the normalchildhood but it wasn't like
(09:43):
that.
I have no trauma.
We all have trauma.
Trauma is actually how werespond to things, like our
bodily response to whatever likeit can be, just like being in
supermarket and my mothergetting lost from my mother and
then feeling abandoned andscared, and that creates kind of
like this response.
So a lot of these things wemight not even remember.
(10:03):
So anyway, diving into mytraumas and beliefs beyond
anything I've experienced before, like these collective beliefs
we have about who we are, ourinherent worth and what we
actually inherently believeabout humanity, etc.
So that was a really, reallyinteresting experience that
shaped me further into realizingactually, if I want to work on
(10:26):
sustainability, I better work onthe root cause, and the root
cause seems to be in our inside.
What do we have inside and howdo we relate to others in the
outside world?
So that's when I startedactually creating more, started
creating actually more from myown self.
I think it was this kind oflike connection between my that
(10:49):
actually I am worthy from theinside.
It's almost like now that Iconnected and reflect on it and
that kind of haunted me also tocreate more and more as a
creator myself, which I hadnever really had.
I had seen myself before as, butI was like no, I cannot be an
entrepreneur, I cannot do that,I cannot make that.
That's for other people.
So it was always like for otherpeople and not for me.
(11:11):
That's when I also created myfirst business and then my
second business and then I kindof narrowed niche, you could say
, into kind of helping peoplewith their overcoming their
inner limitations, shadows,seers of leaves and all these
things that limit us fromactually expanding into our full
(11:31):
potential, into our light,which I think is so important to
evolve humanity in the rightdirection.
So that's a little bit aboutthe background and a few moments
that shake me, but I'll go intomore, I guess, later as we
share further Incredible, wow.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I just want to point out something that you said that
I've actually never heardbefore, and that is that the
root cause of so many of oursustainability related issues is
us right.
It is our patterning, ourbroken parts who feel like
they're not enough, and I, justas you were saying that, I
(12:09):
thought gosh.
I mean, isn't that exactly whatconsumerism and capitalism is
built on in some way, or atleast the predatory version of
capitalism that we've seen inthe more recent decades?
We're now sold a story thatwe're not good in a lot of the
marketing and a lot of themessaging that we receive from
(12:29):
such a young age.
And when you shared the exampleof abandonment in the
supermarket even something assimple as that, and that feeling
of abandonment or that feelingof not being wanted, in my case,
I know that's something that weworked on a lot together in our
sessions of just feeling as achild that wasn't 100% wanted by
(12:50):
my father in particular, andthat led to a really interesting
relationship, really difficultrelationship, with the masculine
and with the masculinehyperproductive version of work
as well, and so I appreciate howyou brought that in too,
because I've had those similarexperiences of commuting into
(13:12):
Boston and going up the stairsfrom the train station and just
feeling like I was a cog in themachine, I was this drone, if
you will, of sameness, justwalking up the stairs with the
flood of people who were doingthe same thing on autopilot, and
that was a moment for me too,where I was like there has to be
(13:35):
something else, there has to be.
I can't actually, in goodconsciousness, go on.
If I will, some part of me willdie, my light will dim.
So, yes, we're so aligned inmany ways and we know this, but
the journey intoentrepreneurship came out for
that for me as well.
But yeah, there's so manynuggets of wisdom already in
(13:56):
what you're saying around theroot cause being out and being
some of these internalizedpatterns.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So I just want to add it's like the misconception is
that the root cause is us, inthe sense that we're causing
damage to the planet, but that'sa belief in itself that we're
destructive by nature, which isactually, in my research and
believe, not true.
So that's the misconception,because we can say we're
(14:23):
destroying the planet.
Is it's been something that'sbeen sold to us as well, I feel,
as an idea, because what doesthe person?
If I believe that we'redestroying the planet, what do I
believe that about myself?
That I'm destructive, right?
So then I would destroy myselfthrough bad food, through bad
habits, through being in a jobthat doesn't light me up,
(14:44):
through not being in my light,through allowing not good
relationships.
So all of these things aredestructive.
But at the root is theinherited collective traumas and
individual traumas and beliefswe acquired in childhood, so
(15:04):
inherited from our ancestors,and the childhood stuff and the
social conditioning.
So that would be then at theroot cause.
So when we say it's us, it'sour inherited and childhoods
wounding actually, and not us bynature, because I think we're
also very bendable.
But there's something in uswhich is our inner light and our
(15:25):
inner connection to source aswell, which is always about
creating life, and I thinkthat's the part that we need to
nourish and feed and nurture sowe can actually create more life
on earth, as opposed to thedestruction.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So just wanted to clarify that, yeah, yeah, that's
a beautiful nuance there.
Thank you for clarifying that,and I want to get into what you
said about the collective woundsthat we have.
These are multi-generational,these are ancestral.
In some way we inherit these,and I'm so curious in your work
(15:59):
of exploring the collectivepatterns and the collective
shadow, what are some of themost prevalent or most common
patterns that you've noticed inworking with others on
collectives and individualshadow?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I suppose yeah, I think one of the most common
ones, if we don't go to the morelike two of the most common
ones, and the third one is alittle bit more complex.
It's not something that I speakto a lot, which is the third
one is like around invasion,like the fear of invasion.
We actually do have that a lotin our society and culture Fear
of invasion, fear of scarcityand fear of rejection.
(16:34):
So the main fears andcollective traumas and wounds
that come up, and so, especiallywith all the people I address,
the fears of the wounding, ofrejection and scarcity, these
things are the major ones thatcome up for us, especially when
it comes down to pursuing a morenon-conventional life, which,
(16:59):
for example, means like divingdeeper in yourself.
What could be discovered?
For many people, this is unsafebecause it could lead to oh my
God, maybe I'll become that kindof hippie or like this kind of
weird people that are likejudged by my family and all my
friends, all these crazy peoplewho are all like liberated and
(17:19):
free and liberated.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You know, like.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Then we like get a job.
So that's the rejection, kindof like wound and trauma.
Will I get a better job?
Will I be able to fulfill myneeds, will I still be with my
partner and all these things?
And so that's a big one thatcomes up.
And then we've probably workedon it in many ways.
Even for me, showing up onlineinitially, well, sometimes like
(17:46):
we feel like, oh, Iprocrastinate and I don't know
what to talk about.
But actually a lot of it isassociated with the fear of
rejection.
I was speaking to a woman theother day and she was saying, oh
, I really want to do this, thisis what I'm meant to be doing,
this is my mission.
And then I'm like what stopsyou now from doing it?
(18:08):
And she's like I don't havetime.
And then I'm like OK, why don'tI go deeper?
Then what's deeper?
She's like it's fear.
I fear of my content not beinggood enough, and from I don't
know what else she said, but itwas something about not good
enough, and not good enoughmeans like, oh, people will then
reject it or whatever.
So again it comes up there,right In really pursuing your
(18:28):
life and expressing our soulgifts and just starting
somewhere with our own journey.
Like I know myself, I've doneso many, I had so many instances
when I put myself on the spotand I wasn't ready at all, like
I really wasn't ready.
And, yeah, I mean, on thisjourney we will definitely have
moments of failure and wherethis fear of rejection comes up
(18:52):
or shame might come up and allthese things, and so it's not an
easy path, but it's a necessarypath for us to do and this
healing work that we do helps alot because what it does, like
what you have done, is a lot ofthis like shadow work and body,
body based shadow work, I wouldsay, which is very much about
(19:12):
embodiment and how our bodyreacts so we can go into
situations and we can stay in acalm and present and receptive
body, as opposed to tractant,because then we fully contract.
So that's a little bit aboutthe fear of rejection.
And then, of course, thescarcity wound which has our
ancestors have lived in Wayswhere they didn't have enough
(19:34):
food, they had to collect andaccumulate and fight, and the
stronger gods more so.
We still have that so ingrainedin our system, but our
technology has gone so far andstill yet we offer it with a lot
of scarcity mindsets, not tosay that some people really
don't have, but in general thatscarcity is embedded in all of
(19:56):
us and there's almost there arevery few people that I talk to
that don't like the scarcityfears of not having enough money
, not having enough food tosurvive, or because something
could happen, or because theycould lose their job, or because
they don't want to go intotheir own mission because they
are free of that scarcity andthey're not going to have enough
(20:19):
.
So scarcity comes up big timein in this space as well.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah definitely .
It's amazing to me how there isan embodied memory that seems to
transcend generations as well.
Sometimes I think about thework that we've been doing, and
I think of it almost through thelens of epigenetics, where it
feels like doing the healingwork is literally changing our
DNA and clearing these thingsout from how our body has been
(20:48):
remembering and how it'sinherited these really critical
pieces of wisdom that would, intheory, help the next generation
offspring to survive, and yetin our modern contact it can
sometime inhibit us.
We have to overcome thesethings, but you're right, it's
certainly not the easy path.
(21:10):
In many ways it requires a lotof bravery, a lot of
self-honesty and looking in themirror at the super hard,
painful things and then reallyalchemizing through that.
And I wanted to just voice inbecause I think one of the fears
that came up in our sessions aswell was this, and I think it's
related to the rejection woundthat you talked about, this idea
(21:33):
that I was actually afraid ofmy own potential.
In some ways I felt like if Itruly step into my expression
and I allow myself to be seenand heard, I put myself out
there and go after my mission, Iam somehow going to be judged
by the community of people thatI used to hang with and who knew
me as one version of myself andwould maybe judge how I was
(21:57):
changing as a person or whateverit might be.
And so this fear of my ownpotential also held me back
quite a bit, and to me it oftenfelt like there was a loss
happening at that same time ofif I step into my own light and
into my own gifts.
Does that mean I can't go back?
Does that mean I can't rely onthe patterns, even if they're
(22:21):
unheld, the coping mechanismsthat feel safe to me, that I've
developed over the years?
Does it mean I can't go back tothat?
Do I have to step into thisother version of myself?
And that, in and of itself,also felt really scary and is
maybe a little bit of a form ofself rejection in a way, because
I was keeping myself safe, evento my own detriment, and so I'm
(22:41):
curious have you seen thatpiece in others, and when?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
yeah, oh, yeah, so much, yeah, like, yeah, and
you're right, we are kind oflike.
On the one hand, it's a form ofself rejection and abandonment
of the true self.
Actually, when we realize thatthere's so like, there could be
anger, there could be lots ofother things, and that's why I
think we have to be held inthese containers, like what me
and you have gone through, so wecan have the safe space to
(23:10):
express that whatever comes up.
And sometimes it's just amessage from the body that it's
scary to go there.
So our body is actually likecontracting, it's like oh, it's
not safe to do that.
So our body is actually justtelling us that there is a
trauma, a fear, a belief therethat's preventing from going
there, but that and that meansthat we need to respect that and
(23:33):
work with that, with the body.
So it's not just about I thinkone of the things in our culture
is about push through, just doit.
We cannot do it like that,because we can retrogotize
ourselves, we can recreate thebeliefs, we can support the
beliefs, because our body willbe in such a shock doing that
and I used to do that withmyself quite a lot I would put
myself in the spot and I wouldjust like just do it and kind of
(23:56):
like it helps a little, but notreally in the long term which
have the same fears and believeabout ourselves that we're not
enough, that we're not worthyand so on.
So, yeah, both of thesemechanisms that you explained
are so spot on and I think forme it's being around the pattern
of working hard.
So when I was six years old, wemoved with my parents and my
(24:21):
brother and sister from asmaller city to the capital and
as we did that move, it was anew, bigger city.
Of course it's the capital.
It's a different kind of likeaccent.
And I'm like at that pointwhere I'm starting school and I
remember there was a lot of fearand anxiety and because my
(24:42):
parents simply didn't have thecapacity to support me in this
chain, no, emotionally they werejust like a lot of the parents
they feel oh, there you go,you're just gonna go to the new
school.
So there you go, and then theteachers will deal with it.
It's kind of like that a bit, atleast from what I can remember
and perceive about them andtheir capabilities to then I
(25:03):
would go to the school and thena lot of what I remember is that
I did feel inferior.
It was maybe not immediate, butI remember feeling like sincere
I'm not enough, like I'm notenough, like I'm not as good as
these kids because everybodyhere is a child of like a lawyer
or a doctor or so manyintellectual like parents and
(25:25):
like everybody has a lot ofmoney and all these things that
I would say like a little bitinferior.
And so the way I started copingwith that after a while and
that was so clear in my grades Ijust became really hardworking,
like first I remember firstsecond grade I really didn't
have so many good grades and myparents were gonna find with it.
(25:46):
They were like but then Istarted just performing so well.
So I started actually workinghard.
So that was the strategy.
I learned to not feel like animposter, to not feel like I'm
not enough and to have a senseof belonging and acceptance
because people would accept me.
They would be like oh wow, shewas like having like great
(26:07):
grades, so she's smart, so she's, and that became my strategy
for life.
And so after that I worked hardin relationships, I worked hard
in my setting, I worked hard inmy work.
I would never really even allowpeople to see my emotional side
because that would mean thatthey might think that I'm not as
(26:29):
capable of being this hardworker, achiever, whatever.
So that damned a lot of mysemininity pleasure, allowing
myself to really enjoy life andplay in life.
It became a lot about our teamand that's what my parents
praised me.
So that was, of course, three.
That was how I got love.
And so these days what I'mnoticing and I've had this
(26:49):
transition from like the workinghard to now it's really about
being in my seminary actually.
So the working hard, as youmight probably agree, because we
see that so much in our society.
A lot of women and men a lot ofpeople have it, no matter if
you're as, whatever genderyou're in or no gender.
(27:11):
So we have it in our culturebecause we've learned that
success comes from working hardand achieving and that's where
we get our worth from oftentimes.
So it's been a real shift forme to move from the working hard
into now, like really being inmy seminary, and that's all
about embracing my feminineenergy, embracing my pleasure
(27:35):
and working guided by myintuition, as opposed to the
mind like okay, I'll do a reallyhard work and of course,
something will come up,something will work out and then
be burnt out and unhappy andall these things.
It's been the biggest challengeI feel in my life.
I've probably been allowed toshift that and it's been really,
really hard because it has comewith challenges such as oh my
(27:59):
God, what's happening in mybusiness?
I'm going through a transitionand I don't know, like where
this will lead or how do I do it, how do I create in this
feminine way?
And there's this lack of trustin the seminary that comes up, a
lot of it.
I think I'm going a little bitinto too much details probably
here, but I'm gonna try and stopthere and I'll let you guys
(28:20):
steer back with the conversationif I went too far in that
direction.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No, I think that's a beautiful direction to head in
next, actually, because when Ithink about the being
indoctrinated into ahypermasculine work culture that
is rooted in patriarchy andhierarchical relational patterns
, all of this right, that's whatwe know, that's what we have
learned to leverage to get ahead, even if that means pushing
(28:48):
through at the expense of ourown health or our relationships
and getting into that zone ofburnout.
And, like you said in thebeginning, we're often given a
badge of honor when we do thatand praised even as young
children of oh, that's such hardwork, good job, and we get that
love.
And I just wanted to share that.
That transition was scary for meto, bit by bit, systematically
(29:12):
unplugging myself from thatbelief system or that cultural
delusion as our.
I guess two episodes ago theguests introduced this idea that
we're all just in thesecultural agreements and they are
delusions to some extent and weget to change them right.
So we've been operating in thiscultural set of agreements that
(29:35):
we can opt in or opt out of, andwhen I first started really
opting out, that fear ofrejection showed up, that body
tension that you mentioned,where I felt contracted and
thought it's not safe to dobusiness in a different way.
It's not even safe to rest,because if I rest or slow down
(29:55):
my pace of productivity, I'm notgonna get love, I'm not gonna
hit my goals, I'm not gonna getthe validation.
That is like filling that holeof not being enough, and so for
a long time my body wouldn't letme is almost how it felt.
I didn't actually even know howto rest because it didn't feel
(30:16):
safe to do business in adifferent way.
So I'm just so curious what wasthat transition like for you
and what were some of thosesymptoms that you had to
overcome and how did you do it?
Because I think listeners willbe really interested in what
that transition actually lookedlike.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, first, I must say I'm still in that transition
because I feel like that'sgonna continue for probably
quite a while, because there areso many layers to that, even
though I'm probably in a placeof no routine, Like the hard
working doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
It's like it just doesn't work.
Totally.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So I feel that the biggest challenge was to, like
you said as well I resonate alot with what you said was to
take the time, take the space,have spaciousness.
That has been a huge challengebecause for me that one was like
I'm always gonna optimize mytime and do something and
multitask and listen tosomething and code.
(31:11):
You know like I'm always kindof like hyper focused on
performance and getting a resultfrom something, and so rest has
been a new bowl game and theway I have gone, the way that I
am tackling that is throughseveral things.
One is I'm doing still and Ihave been doing in the past for
(31:34):
a lot of this kind of likeshadow work and trauma work,
where I go with my guide in adeep space and I just work with
what's alive in my body andoftentimes I get into a space of
just like the presence withmyself and then something comes
up from my body that can beworked through, or like just a
(31:56):
memory comes up or, you know, afeeling comes up, a contraction
comes up and I just either staywith it or dance or move or
shake whatever, or just have aconversation and dialogues with
my inner child and myself andthe work that we've also been
doing together.
It's that deep inner work wherewe're with a guide, and I feel
(32:16):
that's necessary because I'verarely been able to do that with
myself.
So deep With a guide is alwaysso much easier to do it, because
it's very challenging to do itby ourselves.
I feel so to go to the deepestlayers, because they're deeper,
there's always deeper.
So that's one thing that I'mdoing.
I'm absolutely always going inwords and connecting with what's
(32:37):
alive in my body, what's comingup.
As we embrace new level ofleadership, new level of showing
up, as we expand our capacityto receive love and money, these
things will come up again.
This challenge is in boundaryand the body will show the
signals.
It's like, oh, that's like I'mnot sure if I'm ready and it's
like, oh, let's go dive backinto the deep inner work, and I
(33:01):
only want to call it inner work.
It's such a process of beingpresent with myself.
I've had the most beautifulexperiences in that process of
just feeling myself and so muchlove and just like, yeah, it's
even emotional now because I canreally feel it Like I've had
some of the best moments in mylife in that process, because I
(33:23):
can really feel myself a lot, myessence and my wholeness and
capacity to love and openness inthe heart and deep openness in
the body.
So that's one process andalways like I feel, like it's
just so important for me andthat's why I also give that
medicine to others.
It's an integral part of mywork.
(33:44):
The other thing that I've beendoing I've been working on
feminine energy, embodiment, andthat goes a lot into pleasure
and being in the body andreceiving intuitive guidance
from my intuition.
So, as you know as well, thatforms part of my practice.
But I've been doing it a lotwith other mentors.
I always invest in coaching andhealing and so on, and so what
(34:07):
has that helped me with is, Ifind that the easiest way to get
myself in a space of presenceis through pleasure, actually
the pleasure of maybe justsealing the sun, kissing my
cheeks or the wind crossing myhair or my skin, or just
touching my skin gently or justdoing some kind of like
(34:30):
embodiment practices for nervousrelaxation, so just like
holding the body, holding theskin and touching.
So that's been a really embodiedpractice that I continue coming
back to daily, like, okay, howcan I connect with my pleasure
today?
And deeper and deeper, becausethe feminine is all about
(34:50):
pleasure.
We are designed, our bodies aredesigned to receive so much
pleasure and we're just notallowing that.
And if we're not allowing that,of course we're going to have
to work hard to get it and we'renot going to get it and we're
going to be like because we'regoing to tip into the masculine
polarity and so we're nevergoing to be fulfilled.
So this has such a benefit forour relationship, though I think
(35:12):
in our relationships it's thefirst place where I see our
results.
It's like a lot of results inrelationships.
Right away it shows, but ittakes.
It's also a process.
So pleasure.
And then the other thing islike being in meditation and
connecting with my intuition andasking like really precise
questions and getting theguidance and then executing that
.
(35:33):
And I was like working with myson when the contractions was
like, oh my God, I'm not doingthis, I'm overwhelmed, going
back to the body again, startingall over again the whole cycle.
But it's just a yeah, I wouldsay it's just a consistent
practice.
It's not about restarting thewhole cycle, it's just
consistency in those practices.
So we have to see a seal inthose practices and rituals to
(35:55):
open up more and more, becausethe body is such a beautiful
tool for opening up to thisrelationship, which comes from
the space, leading from theheart and leading from our
intuition and being in ourfeminine and more receptive
energy, as opposed to being inthe hustle.
So yeah, that's a few things.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, it's.
I mean just hearing youdescribe that, you can hear the
difference between what you'redescribing as this sacred
leadership practice.
That is almost.
It almost feels like a form ofart in some way.
But I love that you brought inthe word ritual, because our
culture is built on ritual andceremony and we actually talk
(36:38):
about this in the Harvard execed course that I'm on the
teaching team for.
We don't realize that dressingup in suits and sitting in a
circle around a board table, wedon't think about that as a
ritual or as a ceremony, and yetit is.
We're being indoctrinated intothese cultures and these rituals
(36:58):
, and so it can feel challengingat first to kind of go against
the grain and start doingdifferent practices or different
rituals that can feelcounterintuitive, to go against
the dominant narrative or thedominant culture.
And yet, to your point, whenyou start doing this and you
stay in that practice, to be inthat open state of receptivity,
(37:21):
it really helped me realize thatpleasure and purpose are so
deeply connected and being inour feminine, embodied
leadership, so that we can beopen to even receiving our
purpose and asking the questionsof how can I be of most service
today?
What wants to flow through metoday.
(37:42):
What do the people on my teamneed most?
How might I show up in a waythat is nourishing and
pleasurable to me?
I think if we're not askingthese types of questions, then
we'll never get that intuitiveanswer.
So even just being in thespaciousness and the presence
and the openness to receive,it's almost like getting access
(38:06):
or opening to a whole newversion, a whole new paradigm of
business communityrelationships.
All of it because we're askingdifferent questions and we're
engaging in different rituals ofhow we create and what inspires
us into action.
And I think if we're comingfrom that place, the set of
choices we'd be making in ourcareers, in our purchasing norms
(38:29):
all of that would be sodifferent.
And what you're talking abouthere it's building a very
different world to be in thisembodied feminine leadership.
So I just wanted to reflectback to you how profound and
multi-layered that feels toreceive what you're saying of.
Yeah, we're building somethingvery different through these
(38:49):
rituals.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yes, I love the two.
Speak about rituals.
Actually, that word sometimesreminds me of you as well,
because I know you love ritualsas well in your life.
It's also an interesting insightfor me in how you're just fatty
, the ritual, the business, kindof like table, and then how
we're shifting these ritualsactually into okay, like first
maybe you sit in a contemplativepractice by yourself and maybe
(39:12):
then you're going to a meetingor whatever that is.
They're shifting indeed and yes,I totally agree that Azure and
Purpose are connected, becausethat's when our purpose can
really show up, because ourpurpose is, I feel this kind of
like energy that runs through usand when we feel this pleasure,
(39:33):
it's such a conduit almost forbeing in our purpose, because
that we can really show up asour true self, because we're all
lit up, like, just if Icultivate pleasure now in my
body, I'm like feeling thisexpensive energy and like, oh,
like this is what I want to doand I got some insights and I
can connect easier with my body,with nature, with the
(39:53):
environment around me.
I'm more receptive as moreleading towards the feminine.
So, yes, this is very aligned,I feel and pleasure.
I use pleasure a lot forcultivating different things,
like connecting in differentways and even connecting with
intuition.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, it's huge and even, as you say, that what I
see and feel in my own body andthis kind of connects back to
sustainability work as well.
I feel like when I'm in the ratrace and I'm moving at the
speed of hyperspeed, right, Ijust go.
Productive is the only way Ihave to get this done have to,
have, to, have to and my nervoussystem is hijacked at that
(40:34):
point and I'm just in a state offight or flight and leveraging
that to produce.
It's like the blinders are onright, I'm focused on the
immediate task ahead and I'maddicted to getting it done.
I actually have no access tolong-term thinking or the
receptivity required forinnovative solutions and ideas.
(40:56):
It's almost like I can't seewhat's even possible because I'm
so hyperfixated and my body iskeeping me there in the
chemicals, the neurochemicalsthat are being transmitted.
So to actually break ourselvesout of that through a practice
like pleasure practice orslowing down, meditating, using
(41:18):
the breath to access ourpleasure.
It is the pattern interrupt ina way that shifts our state of
being.
Yeah, I guess I just wanted topoint out that difference
between short-term and long-termthinking and how, right now, if
we're not leading from thefeminine, we actually are losing
a lot of access to the verytypes of vantage points and
(41:43):
energies that are necessary forsustainability work long-term.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's really necessary.
It is sustainability by itself,because when I can feel this
receptive, feminine energy, Ifeel like I'm part of everything
and imagine me as an ecosystem.
There's openness, there's flow,there's pleasure, there's
receptivity and that's the statethat we can be in as humanity,
(42:10):
and that's the state wecultivate on earth, as opposed
to like this yeah, just like yousaid, like the rhetoric, like
putting a lot of pressure onourselves and stress, and each
of us can look at ourselves andbe like okay, how is my internal
state, what am I really feeling?
How is my body?
And could this be a reflectionof what we're actually doing to
(42:30):
the earth?
Because if I'm in thiscontracted and stressed state, I
will like with stress on otherthings around me.
So it's kind of it's like weare.
If we're sustainable, then wecan live sustainably here, and
that's part of it havingpleasure and being inner
feminine.
And the feminine in itself is soneeded for the future of
(42:52):
humanity, like the femininereceptivity, because the
feminine is the one who'sconnected to the void through
our womb or connected to thevoid, and we can only get the
intuition at the path throughthat void.
If we're not connected, we'remissing the whole picture.
We're working from the mind,which is like a whole.
(43:13):
It's very limited andsubjective and wants to have
safety and predictability andmeasured like analytics, like
it's logical and it's the mindis great to get us from, let's
say, like Europe to the US, likewe can find the whole trip, but
it cannot guide really thedirection.
(43:34):
So the direction will come fromthe feminine intuition, through
the void, and that's reallywhere we're going to have the
most breakthroughs as humanity,I believe, which don't come from
the mind but come from actuallyso much of like our receptivity
, you can call it whatever theconnection to source, connection
to your higher self, connectionto the universe, whatever that
(43:55):
is.
So that's where I believe thatthe new pioneering ideas will
come which will guide humans inthis heart-centered direction
and that's why now it's reallythe time to unlock this and a
lot of especially feminineleaders, but of course it's
always working on bothpolarities feminine, masculine
(44:16):
or in general, like sati, subtletransition.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, Beautifully said, and even in hearing you
paint that picture of what ispossible for humanity, when we
step into this type ofleadership and begin to embody
more feminine, it feels alsovery different that the
fear-based leadership or theego-driven leadership that we're
so accustomed to seeing,whether it's the people that we
(44:40):
actually work for and with orwhat's modeled to us in TV shows
, whatever it might be that someof that behavior has been
rewarded up until this point.
And again it's like thatstepping out of the grain into
something else to show up in anew way.
It might not look like theleadership that we're used to
seeing at first, and yet I canonly imagine the results that
(45:05):
would come from this right Ourhealth increasing and our
well-being increasing.
And I think back to those threemost common wounds that you
mentioned, or the most commontraumas invasion, scarcity and
rejection.
And I can actually see how,leading from this more feminine
space where we're being kind toourselves, we're cultivating
(45:27):
self-love by letting ourselvesfeel pleasure and not avoiding
that or depriving ourselves fromthat, and just feeling in my
own body how abundant this formof leadership feels If we slow
down.
Sometimes it feels wow.
Now that I'm in this pace, Ifeel like I have an abundance of
time and I'm in slow state andI'm actually doing more with
(45:51):
less energy.
It feels more efficient.
So these are just some of thetangible examples, at least,
that I've noticed in the lastyear of cultivating some of
these more feminine leadershippractices.
But I'm really curious, becausewe do still operate in a
culture where the mind loves tounderstand and see the results.
(46:12):
For those listeners who havemaybe never seen this type of
leadership modeled and havemaybe not seen the results, the
tangibility that can come fromit, what are you noticing in
your own life and in yourbusiness as far as the results
that have come from thesepractices?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I feel that the major result for me has been
definitely slowing down andstill continuing being in the
game.
So, slowing down and creatingspaciousness, that's been a huge
result in my life, and I mustsay that this is not to say
(46:51):
personally for me, because Ihave a one-person business.
Right now I have some supportas well.
My business did have a littlebit of financial dip when it was
really going to the majortransition, so in that sense, I
would say that when it comes toteams and bigger companies, it
just has to be done with a lotof caution and just knowing that
(47:15):
, okay, this is a process oflearning and we can still use
the mind.
This is why I think it's reallyimportant to do it timely,
because for me, what I did it,it was almost like it had to be
done there and I wanted to goreally fast.
I wanted to go, I wanted now,so that's how I opted, and so in
my case, it wasn't the easiesttransition, but I feel that the
(47:37):
way I help clients, for example,now, is to not do that mistake
like that I've done.
So, for example, what we dowith a lot of my clients is
we're like, okay, this is yourincome.
This is your main income rightnow.
How can you actually move intomore feminine way of being, into
more pleasure, while notjeopardizing that income and
even creating more income?
(47:59):
So some of them, for example,have come up with extra ID that
have generated more income intheir life plus their other
income that they're having, andsome of them are still in the
work that they're doing.
But they're also planning totransition.
But it's very little by little.
It's really we're taking itstep at a time.
(48:19):
So I think it's important tostart making a transition and
know that it's going to take abit of time and to still make
sure that you have, likeyourself, financially covered or
the organization.
It has to be step by step,little by little, process and
then test.
But I've had clients whoreceived opened up to receiving
a lot of money through thisprocess because it's just, you
(48:43):
need only one ID.
It's like, oh, I should focuson this product and then like
focusing on that product, thatthat's the intuition and we're
saving the intuition, and thenthen like a lot of income coming
from that.
So it can be super easy andsuper fast for some people, and
for some people it will take alonger kind of like timeline to
really transition, depending onhow the setup is.
(49:05):
I don't like like full bangtransition right away, Like I
think what's?
I feel like a little bit likewhat I've done, but it was
really yeah, I guess it was thetime to do it because I had
spaciousness in my life, so Ihad created the space to do that
.
But for my clients I oftentimesrecommend a very transitioned
(49:26):
approach.
And then it's super safe.
And then you can createactually extra income and align
more of your income streams toreceive from sources that feel
better or more aligned, andbecause what we're doing is
we're actually increasing yourlevel of actually we're not
increasing it like a person istapping into their own health
(49:47):
worth, and that's when a lot ofthe power can come from the
inside, but also then it's opento receiving new possibilities,
so that creates like a reallymagical combination to receive
more and from in bigger ways.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Amazing, yeah, and I imagine to the, I guess the
boundary work that can come aspart of that too.
As you open to receive and youbegin to understand your self
worth on different levels, youstart to feel like you're enough
.
And so over time I guess wegrow out of not having
boundaries or going againstourselves repeatedly.
(50:24):
And I know from you, know fromworking with you in what you
just said about finding the mostaligned income streams and how
it in this transitionary work,sometimes the thing that comes
through that's the mostintuitive and it keeps repeating
right.
For me it was cycle sinking.
I kept getting the intuitivehit.
This is the thing, this is therevenue stream that's actually
(50:47):
going to be the most effortless,bring you the most pleasure and
ease, and it's going to be themost financially lucrative.
And my mind rejected that for along time.
It was like how am I going tomake a business off cycle
sinking?
I'm not even a dietitian or anexpert in exercise, like what?
And little by little, the moreI would test that intuition and
(51:11):
honor it in these littleprototypes, the more I realized,
oh my gosh, that intuition isactually right.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah.
So that's such a beautifulexample and I remember when he
had it in the actions, yourintuition was like, speaking
about it, I mean I like, okay,focus on this product, launch it
or create a freebie, and thatdone, just yeah, was so
successful, so successful, oh mygosh.
And so nailed, like really,it's so clear.
(51:41):
So I really love that Very goodexample, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, that clarity I mean you're using that word
clear.
I'm remembering how clear itfelt where, if we're in the
spaciousness and we're sittingdown with ourselves and we're
doing the work to check in, itcan feel so clear the more we do
that and open to receivingthese messages.
And so, yeah, I mean Clementina, we've covered a lot of ground
(52:06):
in this and I guess, as we winddown this conversation, if
listeners were wanting to beginthe transition and begin to do
some of that deep pattern orshadow healing work, to feel
safe enough to begin totransition into a more feminine
way, like what would be some ofthose initial action steps that
(52:28):
they could take, what resourcesor support might you recommend
if people want to get startedwith this in their own lives?
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, I would say just the most simple thing is
being pleasure.
So fine way to be in yourpleasure Maybe it's like sitting
outside and the trees andfeeling the wind and then just
for a moment taking a fewbreaths and with a longer exhale
, and just being like that for awhile and observing and finding
something new, maybe each day.
(52:57):
So that's one practice that'sreally embodied and super simple
to do At whole practicebreathing and just feeling the
body and connecting and justallowing yourself to feel your
body.
And if you cannot do that, ifyou cannot connect with your
body and just be in the presenceand allow to feel the magic of
life and just feel that pleasure, connect with your own
(53:18):
sensuality, then maybe there'ssomething, that there's a piece
that needs to be moved a little.
So people can always reach outto me as well and we can
absolutely speak a little bitabout the what the journey is or
their ads and what they reallywant and need in the moment, and
I can also guide them a little.
So I think Nicole will alsoshare my calendar link here,
(53:41):
which is a link for those peoplewho want to get a deeper
understanding of where they'reat and how can they actually
start taking the steps.
Other practices, or many anykind of embodiment practices,
are really useful Testing yourintuition, kind of like check,
like okay, what is my intuitionsaying?
And kind of like doing that andnoticing, oh, was this right or
(54:02):
wrong?
And sometimes people havedifferent ways of inviting
intuition.
The way that I guide is alittle bit different than what
we're used to, so intuitionneeds a lot of testing first,
and precisely asking questionsso we can get the right answers,
and then trusting it, which iswhere people fail most of the
time, like they don't trust itand they don't execute.
(54:22):
It's like, oh, it's not working.
Again, yeah, pointing with yourintuition could be interesting
as looking at that with smallerchoices and saying, oh, now I
was guided, and sometimes I doit as simple as the simplest
practice is just how does mybody feel?
Is it expanding or contracting?
And so that can also be it'snot the most precise way, but it
can definitely give a lot ofinformation as well about which
(54:46):
direction to go to.
But we store a lot in the body,so it's not the most precise,
but it has definitely led me toa very positive outcome and
amazing choices when I waslistening to the body and my
intuition.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Those are a few.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
And taking a little bit of spaciousness, I would say
as a feminine leader, to take alittle bit of time for
ourselves, going to meditationand then come back to the work
and see what actually has arosefrom that.
Maybe there is a new idea andnew insight that's coming up.
So taking spaciousness isimportant and I definitely would
(55:22):
say doing the inner work orworking with a coach and a guide
, it's going to be definitelymaking the biggest quantumly
progress that is safe and canguide people in the right ways,
and so that's something that Ihighly recommend.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Amazing and I can certainly attest to that as
someone who was the solo founderinitially and often feeling
like I was on an eye light withmy own healing, and to have that
fresh, honest mirror who isholding safe space and asking
questions or guiding me throughpractices that are different
(55:56):
than what I'm maybe familiarwith.
Maybe I didn't even know it waspossible.
I was exposed to so many uniquemeditations and embodiment work
through our time together, fromspeaking with my inner child
and doing some of that healingwork to visualizing my heart's
deepest desire.
There were so many things inthere that even if I had
(56:19):
researched on the internet howcan I heal X, y, z wound?
I don't think I would havegotten there on my own without a
guide.
So I totally resonate with whatyou're saying and appreciate
this idea of de-risking thetransition a bit by just getting
out there and practicing andexperiencing what it's like to
be in our own bodies and doingthose humble tests or those
(56:42):
humble prototypes just to seewhat might happen, because
there's no harm and no risk inthat and we might just surprise
ourselves the more we try that.
So I appreciate the invitationthat you're leaving listeners
with today.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, and then just one more final thing.
It doesn't have to be alwayslike a scary transition Not
everybody really wants totransition to something new but
just by changing our way ofbeing we change everything.
We can change our relationships.
My clients transformed theirrelationship, but they were to
transform how they show up inthe work as a leader.
And so then things change andsuddenly there are in their
(57:15):
gifts, in the place wherethey're working already, and so
it's just by changing our way ofbeing that we get to do that
and we get to live our morealigned life, no matter if we're
staying in the same job orbusiness or if we want to
transition over time with smallsteps.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Yeah, yeah, amazing.
Wow, clementina, this has justbeen both such a pleasure and so
purposeful to be in thisconversation with you, and I can
only imagine what comes of thisfor anyone who goes out there
and tries some of the thingsthat you're mentioning.
I'll definitely include yourCalendly link in the show notes
(57:57):
for anyone who wants to get intouch and just experience the
absolute magic that you are as aguide.
So I feel genuinely excited foranyone who goes on that journey
with you and shares some spacewith you.
So again, thank you for beinghere today and having this
incredible, meaningfulconversation.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasure, suchan honor, very inspiring for me
too as well, and sharing aspace with you is always magical
.
So thank you for inviting meand for everybody that's
listening.
Lots of love to you.
Hey leaders, welcome back to another week of the
Living Leaders podcast.
Today I have with me ClementinaCarroll, who is honestly one of
the coolest, wisest humans thatI have come across, and I've
had the pleasure of workingdirectly with her as her client
for the past eight to ninemonths.
She has been helping me to divedeep into the shadows of my
(00:24):
being, really looking at thepatterns that I have been
operating my life and mybusiness from, and are those
patterns that I want to keep oram I ready to evolve?
We've gotten into some reallyjuicy territory when it comes to
childhood trauma and thebeliefs that I picked up from
the adults in my life or thesociety that I was brought up in
(00:45):
the ways that I've internalizedall of that.
She has this really magical way.
She is so gifted at identifyingthese patterns in a way that
feels safe to approach, in a waythat feels like it's coming
from love and not fixing.
She has been working with highimpactors and amazing humans
(01:08):
from around the world who areseeking to have high impact in
sustainability, in social impact.
She's really showing up to helpguide those who are ready to
step into the full potential oftheir leadership and leave
behind the wounds or the traumathat might be ready to be healed
(01:29):
.
I know that she has certainlyinvited me into a completely
different relationship withmyself, and I believe that by
the end of this episode, you toomight also begin to develop a
completely differentrelationship to leadership and
yourself.
In today's episode we get intosome amazing topics from the
connection between pleasure andpurpose, the actual pleasure
(01:53):
that we can derive from havingan embodied leadership practice.
We get into the power andreally the necessity of
conscious feminine leadershippractice.
For our current global context,it is so important that we
learn how to pause, how toconnect with our intuition, how
to listen to our bodies and notjust run our organizations from
(02:17):
our minds.
We look at some of the mostcommon collective traumas that
Clementina has been seeing amongher clients, including how
those traumas might show up aspatterns or even coping
mechanisms in our adult lives.
We get into the pattern, forexample, of working hard and
this story that we've boughtinto, that we must work hard in
(02:40):
order to be successful, in orderto get the love that we need,
and we also both vulnerablyshare what it's been like to
transition from a moreconventional model for
leadership and transition into amore feminine based approach to
leadership and running ourcompanies.
What are the results we've seenfrom that?
(03:01):
What has been challenging aboutthat?
We really open up about ourexperiences in making this
transition and in healingourselves in our own leadership
practice so that we can reallyshow up to the purpose that
calls us most.
Again, I just feel so honoredthat I even get to introduce you
(03:22):
to Clementina Carroll.
Even just being in her presenceand listening to the way that
she describes these currentchallenges that we face is
medicine.
So with that introductionyou're probably chomping at the
bit to hear what Clementina hasto say.
So I won't stand in your wayany longer.
Let's get right into today'sepisode.
(03:49):
Clementina, I am showing up withso much deep, deep gratitude in
my heart for you today andbeyond, really over the moon,
over the full moon today that wehave this conversation and
share some space for thelisteners who maybe don't know
this, clementina and I havequite a background together
(04:10):
because we've actually beenworking together at least eight
or nine months at this point,where Clementina has been an
amazing healing leadership coachfor me and has really helped me
to dive into some of theshadows in my own patterning,
really looking at the blueprintof my gifts but also all that
(04:32):
blocks me and all of the waysthat I was getting in my own way
, and we've done some remarkablehealing work together that has
quite literally shifted everyrelationship in my life but,
most importantly perhaps, myrelationship to myself and all
of the inner parts, the innerchild, the inner micromanager.
(04:52):
It has just been such a journeyand so I just wanted to share
that context with listeners,because we've had such powerful
experiences together and I knowwe're going to get into a lot of
these themes today as weexplore the evolving definition
of leadership and how to show upas the healed and fully
(05:13):
expressed versions of ourselvesin our leadership practice.
Incredibly grateful for thisconversation and for you being
here, clementina, and I want tostart by just inviting you to
share a bit from your heart ofanything relevant in your
background that you feel calledto share with listeners, and
what is really activating youthese days, what is most alive
(05:37):
for you and how your gifts arewanting to show up in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Thank you so much for that beautiful introduction.
It really warms my heart and,as also we did with the
grounding and took a few breathsbefore we pressed record, I
felt like the safety and theconnection.
So it's beautiful to be herewith you and there's so much
safety because we know eachother so well and we have done
that the deep work together.
(06:02):
So thank you for that andhaving me on your podcast, and
it is really aligned.
To you know, from the first daythat we met on LinkedIn, things
were very aligned.
We were like, oh wow, you'redoing that and you're doing that
and like, totally, it's been soaligned because both of us are
in sustainability andconsciousness and evolving
(06:25):
humanity in a hard light way.
So they're very aligned.
And what I want to share?
A few things that have been onmy mind recently and I think
they're also related to myexperience.
I'll just do like a few touchpoints on my kind of like
history.
I come from the corporate worldwhere I used to work in
(06:47):
multiple roles.
It was an interestingdevelopment because I learned so
much.
I value so much that experience.
Yet I remember that moment whenI was like running for the
train once and my heart was justpumping so fast and I was just
like putting myself always intothis like stress kind of like
(07:10):
situations you know, always likereally busy as a badge of honor
, always achieving as a badge ofhonor, always trying to prove
my worth, I would say as well.
So that culture of business andstress has been a little bit
alive in me these days becauseI'm really focusing and writing
about feminine leadership andwhy we need to actually get into
(07:32):
the body, because actually Irealized years after that my
body was not designed for thislifestyle of like always being
busy, achieving and having thiskind of, let's say, bosses in
the hierarchy who will like pushyou really like.
I remember my last position onbusiness development.
So I was working in for likeone of the biggest corporates in
(07:53):
the world in businessdevelopment and that was so
stressful and so demanding andso much not aligned to my values
actually in terms of how theleadership was, I see, in that
specific position.
So years after now, I'm stillhealing my nervous system and
I'm still coming out of thosestress responses in my body
(08:15):
because they've been soingrained in my body.
So that's just one of theinstances I feel that shape me
and help me transform because Irealized this is not worth it If
I have a heart attack at theage of 30, it is really not
worth it.
What happened after I started?
Really, I wanted to be in thefield of sustainability and I
had already been doing a lot ofwork on the side on that in that
(08:38):
industry.
So I started working on aUnenvironment Initiative for
coral reefs conservation and youknow, part of me like, even
though I felt I am doingdifference in the world,
something didn't feel fullyright, something didn't feel
fully embodied, or I also hadthis anxiety about how we're
going to make it as humanity.
(08:58):
Interestingly so, yeah, that'swhen I moved from Brussels to
the Philippines and thenactually I moved to Bali, and
that's when I met one person whoalso changed my life.
And so when I met Benjamin fromNeural Together, he was
researching around ourcollective traumas, fears and
beliefs which are at the rootcause of the collective
unsustainability, and so, havinghad that experience and
(09:22):
actually then continued workingwith him, it was really
interesting because I actuallystarted looking at myself on a
much deeper level than I hadbefore, so actually looked at my
traumas and I was like for thefirst time I realized, oh, I
actually didn't have a normalchildhood.
I mean I had the normalchildhood but it wasn't like
(09:43):
that.
I have no trauma.
We all have trauma.
Trauma is actually how werespond to things, like our
bodily response to whatever likeit can be, just like being in
supermarket and my mothergetting lost from my mother and
then feeling abandoned andscared, and that creates kind of
like this response.
So a lot of these things wemight not even remember.
(10:03):
So anyway, diving into mytraumas and beliefs beyond
anything I've experienced before, like these collective beliefs
we have about who we are, ourinherent worth and what we
actually inherently believeabout humanity, etc.
So that was a really, reallyinteresting experience that
shaped me further into realizingactually, if I want to work on
(10:26):
sustainability, I better work onthe root cause, and the root
cause seems to be in our inside.
What do we have inside and howdo we relate to others in the
outside world?
So that's when I startedactually creating more, started
creating actually more from myown self.
I think it was this kind oflike connection between my that
(10:49):
actually I am worthy from theinside.
It's almost like now that Iconnected and reflect on it and
that kind of haunted me also tocreate more and more as a
creator myself, which I hadnever really had.
I had seen myself before as, butI was like no, I cannot be an
entrepreneur, I cannot do that,I cannot make that.
That's for other people.
So it was always like for otherpeople and not for me.
(11:11):
That's when I also created myfirst business and then my
second business and then I kindof narrowed niche, you could say
, into kind of helping peoplewith their overcoming their
inner limitations, shadows,seers of leaves and all these
things that limit us fromactually expanding into our full
(11:31):
potential, into our light,which I think is so important to
evolve humanity in the rightdirection.
So that's a little bit aboutthe background and a few moments
that shake me, but I'll go intomore, I guess, later as we
share further Incredible, wow.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I just want to point out something that you said that
I've actually never heardbefore, and that is that the
root cause of so many of oursustainability related issues is
us right.
It is our patterning, ourbroken parts who feel like
they're not enough, and I, justas you were saying that, I
(12:09):
thought gosh.
I mean, isn't that exactly whatconsumerism and capitalism is
built on in some way, or atleast the predatory version of
capitalism that we've seen inthe more recent decades?
We're now sold a story thatwe're not good in a lot of the
marketing and a lot of themessaging that we receive from
(12:29):
such a young age.
And when you shared the exampleof abandonment in the
supermarket even something assimple as that, and that feeling
of abandonment or that feelingof not being wanted, in my case,
I know that's something that weworked on a lot together in our
sessions of just feeling as achild that wasn't 100% wanted by
(12:50):
my father in particular, andthat led to a really interesting
relationship, really difficultrelationship, with the masculine
and with the masculinehyperproductive version of work
as well, and so I appreciate howyou brought that in too,
because I've had those similarexperiences of commuting into
(13:12):
Boston and going up the stairsfrom the train station and just
feeling like I was a cog in themachine, I was this drone, if
you will, of sameness, justwalking up the stairs with the
flood of people who were doingthe same thing on autopilot, and
that was a moment for me too,where I was like there has to be
(13:35):
something else, there has to be.
I can't actually, in goodconsciousness, go on.
If I will, some part of me willdie, my light will dim.
So, yes, we're so aligned inmany ways and we know this, but
the journey intoentrepreneurship came out for
that for me as well.
But yeah, there's so manynuggets of wisdom already in
(13:56):
what you're saying around theroot cause being out and being
some of these internalizedpatterns.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So I just want to add it's like the misconception is
that the root cause is us, inthe sense that we're causing
damage to the planet, but that'sa belief in itself that we're
destructive by nature, which isactually, in my research and
believe, not true.
So that's the misconception,because we can say we're
(14:23):
destroying the planet.
Is it's been something that'sbeen sold to us as well, I feel,
as an idea, because what doesthe person?
If I believe that we'redestroying the planet, what do I
believe that about myself?
That I'm destructive, right?
So then I would destroy myselfthrough bad food, through bad
habits, through being in a jobthat doesn't light me up,
(14:44):
through not being in my light,through allowing not good
relationships.
So all of these things aredestructive.
But at the root is theinherited collective traumas and
individual traumas and beliefswe acquired in childhood, so
(15:04):
inherited from our ancestors,and the childhood stuff and the
social conditioning.
So that would be then at theroot cause.
So when we say it's us, it'sour inherited and childhoods
wounding actually, and not us bynature, because I think we're
also very bendable.
But there's something in uswhich is our inner light and our
(15:25):
inner connection to source aswell, which is always about
creating life, and I thinkthat's the part that we need to
nourish and feed and nurture sowe can actually create more life
on earth, as opposed to thedestruction.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
So just wanted to clarify that, yeah, yeah, that's
a beautiful nuance there.
Thank you for clarifying that,and I want to get into what you
said about the collective woundsthat we have.
These are multi-generational,these are ancestral.
In some way we inherit these,and I'm so curious in your work
(15:59):
of exploring the collectivepatterns and the collective
shadow, what are some of themost prevalent or most common
patterns that you've noticed inworking with others on
collectives and individualshadow?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I suppose yeah, I think one of the most common
ones, if we don't go to the morelike two of the most common
ones, and the third one is alittle bit more complex.
It's not something that I speakto a lot, which is the third
one is like around invasion,like the fear of invasion.
We actually do have that a lotin our society and culture Fear
of invasion, fear of scarcityand fear of rejection.
(16:34):
So the main fears andcollective traumas and wounds
that come up, and so, especiallywith all the people I address,
the fears of the wounding, ofrejection and scarcity, these
things are the major ones thatcome up for us, especially when
it comes down to pursuing a morenon-conventional life, which,
(16:59):
for example, means like divingdeeper in yourself.
What could be discovered?
For many people, this is unsafebecause it could lead to oh my
God, maybe I'll become that kindof hippie or like this kind of
weird people that are likejudged by my family and all my
friends, all these crazy peoplewho are all like liberated and
(17:19):
free and liberated.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You know, like.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Then we like get a job.
So that's the rejection, kindof like wound and trauma.
Will I get a better job?
Will I be able to fulfill myneeds, will I still be with my
partner and all these things?
And so that's a big one thatcomes up.
And then we've probably workedon it in many ways.
Even for me, showing up onlineinitially, well, sometimes like
(17:46):
we feel like, oh, Iprocrastinate and I don't know
what to talk about.
But actually a lot of it isassociated with the fear of
rejection.
I was speaking to a woman theother day and she was saying, oh
, I really want to do this, thisis what I'm meant to be doing,
this is my mission.
And then I'm like what stopsyou now from doing it?
(18:08):
And she's like I don't havetime.
And then I'm like OK, why don'tI go deeper?
Then what's deeper?
She's like it's fear.
I fear of my content not beinggood enough, and from I don't
know what else she said, but itwas something about not good
enough, and not good enoughmeans like, oh, people will then
reject it or whatever.
So again it comes up there,right In really pursuing your
(18:28):
life and expressing our soulgifts and just starting
somewhere with our own journey.
Like I know myself, I've doneso many, I had so many instances
when I put myself on the spotand I wasn't ready at all, like
I really wasn't ready.
And, yeah, I mean, on thisjourney we will definitely have
moments of failure and wherethis fear of rejection comes up
(18:52):
or shame might come up and allthese things, and so it's not an
easy path, but it's a necessarypath for us to do and this
healing work that we do helps alot because what it does, like
what you have done, is a lot ofthis like shadow work and body,
body based shadow work, I wouldsay, which is very much about
(19:12):
embodiment and how our bodyreacts so we can go into
situations and we can stay in acalm and present and receptive
body, as opposed to tractant,because then we fully contract.
So that's a little bit aboutthe fear of rejection.
And then, of course, thescarcity wound which has our
ancestors have lived in Wayswhere they didn't have enough
(19:34):
food, they had to collect andaccumulate and fight, and the
stronger gods more so.
We still have that so ingrainedin our system, but our
technology has gone so far andstill yet we offer it with a lot
of scarcity mindsets, not tosay that some people really
don't have, but in general thatscarcity is embedded in all of
(19:56):
us and there's almost there arevery few people that I talk to
that don't like the scarcityfears of not having enough money
, not having enough food tosurvive, or because something
could happen, or because theycould lose their job, or because
they don't want to go intotheir own mission because they
are free of that scarcity andthey're not going to have enough
(20:19):
.
So scarcity comes up big timein in this space as well.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, yeah definitely .
It's amazing to me how there isan embodied memory that seems to
transcend generations as well.
Sometimes I think about thework that we've been doing, and
I think of it almost through thelens of epigenetics, where it
feels like doing the healingwork is literally changing our
DNA and clearing these thingsout from how our body has been
(20:48):
remembering and how it'sinherited these really critical
pieces of wisdom that would, intheory, help the next generation
offspring to survive, and yetin our modern contact it can
sometime inhibit us.
We have to overcome thesethings, but you're right, it's
certainly not the easy path.
(21:10):
In many ways it requires a lotof bravery, a lot of
self-honesty and looking in themirror at the super hard,
painful things and then reallyalchemizing through that.
And I wanted to just voice inbecause I think one of the fears
that came up in our sessions aswell was this, and I think it's
related to the rejection woundthat you talked about, this idea
(21:33):
that I was actually afraid ofmy own potential.
In some ways I felt like if Itruly step into my expression
and I allow myself to be seenand heard, I put myself out
there and go after my mission, Iam somehow going to be judged
by the community of people thatI used to hang with and who knew
me as one version of myself andwould maybe judge how I was
(21:57):
changing as a person or whateverit might be.
And so this fear of my ownpotential also held me back
quite a bit, and to me it oftenfelt like there was a loss
happening at that same time ofif I step into my own light and
into my own gifts.
Does that mean I can't go back?
Does that mean I can't rely onthe patterns, even if they're
(22:21):
unheld, the coping mechanismsthat feel safe to me, that I've
developed over the years?
Does it mean I can't go back tothat?
Do I have to step into thisother version of myself?
And that, in and of itself,also felt really scary and is
maybe a little bit of a form ofself rejection in a way, because
I was keeping myself safe, evento my own detriment, and so I'm
(22:41):
curious have you seen thatpiece in others, and when?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
yeah, oh, yeah, so much, yeah, like, yeah, and
you're right, we are kind oflike.
On the one hand, it's a form ofself rejection and abandonment
of the true self.
Actually, when we realize thatthere's so like, there could be
anger, there could be lots ofother things, and that's why I
think we have to be held inthese containers, like what me
and you have gone through, so wecan have the safe space to
(23:10):
express that whatever comes up.
And sometimes it's just amessage from the body that it's
scary to go there.
So our body is actually likecontracting, it's like oh, it's
not safe to do that.
So our body is actually justtelling us that there is a
trauma, a fear, a belief therethat's preventing from going
there, but that and that meansthat we need to respect that and
(23:33):
work with that, with the body.
So it's not just about I thinkone of the things in our culture
is about push through, just doit.
We cannot do it like that,because we can retrogotize
ourselves, we can recreate thebeliefs, we can support the
beliefs, because our body willbe in such a shock doing that
and I used to do that withmyself quite a lot I would put
myself in the spot and I wouldjust like just do it and kind of
(23:56):
like it helps a little, but notreally in the long term which
have the same fears and believeabout ourselves that we're not
enough, that we're not worthyand so on.
So, yeah, both of thesemechanisms that you explained
are so spot on and I think forme it's being around the pattern
of working hard.
So when I was six years old, wemoved with my parents and my
(24:21):
brother and sister from asmaller city to the capital and
as we did that move, it was anew, bigger city.
Of course it's the capital.
It's a different kind of likeaccent.
And I'm like at that pointwhere I'm starting school and I
remember there was a lot of fearand anxiety and because my
(24:42):
parents simply didn't have thecapacity to support me in this
chain, no, emotionally they werejust like a lot of the parents
they feel oh, there you go,you're just gonna go to the new
school.
So there you go, and then theteachers will deal with it.
It's kind of like that a bit, atleast from what I can remember
and perceive about them andtheir capabilities to then I
(25:03):
would go to the school and thena lot of what I remember is that
I did feel inferior.
It was maybe not immediate, butI remember feeling like sincere
I'm not enough, like I'm notenough, like I'm not as good as
these kids because everybodyhere is a child of like a lawyer
or a doctor or so manyintellectual like parents and
(25:25):
like everybody has a lot ofmoney and all these things that
I would say like a little bitinferior.
And so the way I started copingwith that after a while and
that was so clear in my grades Ijust became really hardworking,
like first I remember firstsecond grade I really didn't
have so many good grades and myparents were gonna find with it.
(25:46):
They were like but then Istarted just performing so well.
So I started actually workinghard.
So that was the strategy.
I learned to not feel like animposter, to not feel like I'm
not enough and to have a senseof belonging and acceptance
because people would accept me.
They would be like oh wow, shewas like having like great
(26:07):
grades, so she's smart, so she's, and that became my strategy
for life.
And so after that I worked hardin relationships, I worked hard
in my setting, I worked hard inmy work.
I would never really even allowpeople to see my emotional side
because that would mean thatthey might think that I'm not as
(26:29):
capable of being this hardworker, achiever, whatever.
So that damned a lot of mysemininity pleasure, allowing
myself to really enjoy life andplay in life.
It became a lot about our teamand that's what my parents
praised me.
So that was, of course, three.
That was how I got love.
And so these days what I'mnoticing and I've had this
(26:49):
transition from like the workinghard to now it's really about
being in my seminary actually.
So the working hard, as youmight probably agree, because we
see that so much in our society.
A lot of women and men a lot ofpeople have it, no matter if
you're as, whatever genderyou're in or no gender.
(27:11):
So we have it in our culturebecause we've learned that
success comes from working hardand achieving and that's where
we get our worth from oftentimes.
So it's been a real shift forme to move from the working hard
into now, like really being inmy seminary, and that's all
about embracing my feminineenergy, embracing my pleasure
(27:35):
and working guided by myintuition, as opposed to the
mind like okay, I'll do a reallyhard work and of course,
something will come up,something will work out and then
be burnt out and unhappy andall these things.
It's been the biggest challengeI feel in my life.
I've probably been allowed toshift that and it's been really,
really hard because it has comewith challenges such as oh my
(27:59):
God, what's happening in mybusiness?
I'm going through a transitionand I don't know, like where
this will lead or how do I do it, how do I create in this
feminine way?
And there's this lack of trustin the seminary that comes up, a
lot of it.
I think I'm going a little bitinto too much details probably
here, but I'm gonna try and stopthere and I'll let you guys
(28:20):
steer back with the conversationif I went too far in that
direction.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No, I think that's a beautiful direction to head in
next, actually, because when Ithink about the being
indoctrinated into ahypermasculine work culture that
is rooted in patriarchy andhierarchical relational patterns
, all of this right, that's whatwe know, that's what we have
learned to leverage to get ahead, even if that means pushing
(28:48):
through at the expense of ourown health or our relationships
and getting into that zone ofburnout.
And, like you said in thebeginning, we're often given a
badge of honor when we do thatand praised even as young
children of oh, that's such hardwork, good job, and we get that
love.
And I just wanted to share that.
That transition was scary for meto, bit by bit, systematically
(29:12):
unplugging myself from thatbelief system or that cultural
delusion as our.
I guess two episodes ago theguests introduced this idea that
we're all just in thesecultural agreements and they are
delusions to some extent and weget to change them right.
So we've been operating in thiscultural set of agreements that
(29:35):
we can opt in or opt out of, andwhen I first started really
opting out, that fear ofrejection showed up, that body
tension that you mentioned,where I felt contracted and
thought it's not safe to dobusiness in a different way.
It's not even safe to rest,because if I rest or slow down
(29:55):
my pace of productivity, I'm notgonna get love, I'm not gonna
hit my goals, I'm not gonna getthe validation.
That is like filling that holeof not being enough, and so for
a long time my body wouldn't letme is almost how it felt.
I didn't actually even know howto rest because it didn't feel
(30:16):
safe to do business in adifferent way.
So I'm just so curious what wasthat transition like for you
and what were some of thosesymptoms that you had to
overcome and how did you do it?
Because I think listeners willbe really interested in what
that transition actually lookedlike.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, first, I must say I'm still in that transition
because I feel like that'sgonna continue for probably
quite a while, because there areso many layers to that, even
though I'm probably in a placeof no routine, Like the hard
working doesn't work anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
It's like it just doesn't work.
Totally.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
So I feel that the biggest challenge was to, like
you said as well I resonate alot with what you said was to
take the time, take the space,have spaciousness.
That has been a huge challengebecause for me that one was like
I'm always gonna optimize mytime and do something and
multitask and listen tosomething and code.
(31:11):
You know like I'm always kindof like hyper focused on
performance and getting a resultfrom something, and so rest has
been a new bowl game and theway I have gone, the way that I
am tackling that is throughseveral things.
One is I'm doing still and Ihave been doing in the past for
(31:34):
a lot of this kind of likeshadow work and trauma work,
where I go with my guide in adeep space and I just work with
what's alive in my body andoftentimes I get into a space of
just like the presence withmyself and then something comes
up from my body that can beworked through, or like just a
(31:56):
memory comes up or, you know, afeeling comes up, a contraction
comes up and I just either staywith it or dance or move or
shake whatever, or just have aconversation and dialogues with
my inner child and myself andthe work that we've also been
doing together.
It's that deep inner work wherewe're with a guide, and I feel
(32:16):
that's necessary because I'verarely been able to do that with
myself.
So deep With a guide is alwaysso much easier to do it, because
it's very challenging to do itby ourselves.
I feel so to go to the deepestlayers, because they're deeper,
there's always deeper.
So that's one thing that I'mdoing.
I'm absolutely always going inwords and connecting with what's
(32:37):
alive in my body, what's comingup.
As we embrace new level ofleadership, new level of showing
up, as we expand our capacityto receive love and money, these
things will come up again.
This challenge is in boundaryand the body will show the
signals.
It's like, oh, that's like I'mnot sure if I'm ready and it's
like, oh, let's go dive backinto the deep inner work, and I
(33:01):
only want to call it inner work.
It's such a process of beingpresent with myself.
I've had the most beautifulexperiences in that process of
just feeling myself and so muchlove and just like, yeah, it's
even emotional now because I canreally feel it Like I've had
some of the best moments in mylife in that process, because I
(33:23):
can really feel myself a lot, myessence and my wholeness and
capacity to love and openness inthe heart and deep openness in
the body.
So that's one process andalways like I feel, like it's
just so important for me andthat's why I also give that
medicine to others.
It's an integral part of mywork.
(33:44):
The other thing that I've beendoing I've been working on
feminine energy, embodiment, andthat goes a lot into pleasure
and being in the body andreceiving intuitive guidance
from my intuition.
So, as you know as well, thatforms part of my practice.
But I've been doing it a lotwith other mentors.
I always invest in coaching andhealing and so on, and so what
(34:07):
has that helped me with is, Ifind that the easiest way to get
myself in a space of presenceis through pleasure, actually
the pleasure of maybe justsealing the sun, kissing my
cheeks or the wind crossing myhair or my skin, or just
touching my skin gently or justdoing some kind of like
(34:30):
embodiment practices for nervousrelaxation, so just like
holding the body, holding theskin and touching.
So that's been a really embodiedpractice that I continue coming
back to daily, like, okay, howcan I connect with my pleasure
today?
And deeper and deeper, becausethe feminine is all about
(34:50):
pleasure.
We are designed, our bodies aredesigned to receive so much
pleasure and we're just notallowing that.
And if we're not allowing that,of course we're going to have
to work hard to get it and we'renot going to get it and we're
going to be like because we'regoing to tip into the masculine
polarity and so we're nevergoing to be fulfilled.
So this has such a benefit forour relationship, though I think
(35:12):
in our relationships it's thefirst place where I see our
results.
It's like a lot of results inrelationships.
Right away it shows, but ittakes.
It's also a process.
So pleasure.
And then the other thing islike being in meditation and
connecting with my intuition andasking like really precise
questions and getting theguidance and then executing that
.
(35:33):
And I was like working with myson when the contractions was
like, oh my God, I'm not doingthis, I'm overwhelmed, going
back to the body again, startingall over again the whole cycle.
But it's just a yeah, I wouldsay it's just a consistent
practice.
It's not about restarting thewhole cycle, it's just
consistency in those practices.
So we have to see a seal inthose practices and rituals to
(35:55):
open up more and more, becausethe body is such a beautiful
tool for opening up to thisrelationship, which comes from
the space, leading from theheart and leading from our
intuition and being in ourfeminine and more receptive
energy, as opposed to being inthe hustle.
So yeah, that's a few things.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, it's.
I mean just hearing youdescribe that, you can hear the
difference between what you'redescribing as this sacred
leadership practice.
That is almost.
It almost feels like a form ofart in some way.
But I love that you brought inthe word ritual, because our
culture is built on ritual andceremony and we actually talk
(36:38):
about this in the Harvard execed course that I'm on the
teaching team for.
We don't realize that dressingup in suits and sitting in a
circle around a board table, wedon't think about that as a
ritual or as a ceremony, and yetit is.
We're being indoctrinated intothese cultures and these rituals
(36:58):
, and so it can feel challengingat first to kind of go against
the grain and start doingdifferent practices or different
rituals that can feelcounterintuitive, to go against
the dominant narrative or thedominant culture.
And yet, to your point, whenyou start doing this and you
stay in that practice, to be inthat open state of receptivity,
(37:21):
it really helped me realize thatpleasure and purpose are so
deeply connected and being inour feminine, embodied
leadership, so that we can beopen to even receiving our
purpose and asking the questionsof how can I be of most service
today?
What wants to flow through metoday.
(37:42):
What do the people on my teamneed most?
How might I show up in a waythat is nourishing and
pleasurable to me?
I think if we're not askingthese types of questions, then
we'll never get that intuitiveanswer.
So even just being in thespaciousness and the presence
and the openness to receive,it's almost like getting access
(38:06):
or opening to a whole newversion, a whole new paradigm of
business communityrelationships.
All of it because we're askingdifferent questions and we're
engaging in different rituals ofhow we create and what inspires
us into action.
And I think if we're comingfrom that place, the set of
choices we'd be making in ourcareers, in our purchasing norms
(38:29):
all of that would be sodifferent.
And what you're talking abouthere it's building a very
different world to be in thisembodied feminine leadership.
So I just wanted to reflectback to you how profound and
multi-layered that feels toreceive what you're saying of.
Yeah, we're building somethingvery different through these
(38:49):
rituals.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yes, I love the two.
Speak about rituals.
Actually, that word sometimesreminds me of you as well,
because I know you love ritualsas well in your life.
It's also an interesting insightfor me in how you're just fatty
, the ritual, the business, kindof like table, and then how
we're shifting these ritualsactually into okay, like first
maybe you sit in a contemplativepractice by yourself and maybe
(39:12):
then you're going to a meetingor whatever that is.
They're shifting indeed and yes,I totally agree that Azure and
Purpose are connected, becausethat's when our purpose can
really show up, because ourpurpose is, I feel this kind of
like energy that runs through usand when we feel this pleasure,
(39:33):
it's such a conduit almost forbeing in our purpose, because
that we can really show up asour true self, because we're all
lit up, like, just if Icultivate pleasure now in my
body, I'm like feeling thisexpensive energy and like, oh,
like this is what I want to doand I got some insights and I
can connect easier with my body,with nature, with the
(39:53):
environment around me.
I'm more receptive as moreleading towards the feminine.
So, yes, this is very aligned,I feel and pleasure.
I use pleasure a lot forcultivating different things,
like connecting in differentways and even connecting with
intuition.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, it's huge and even, as you say, that what I
see and feel in my own body andthis kind of connects back to
sustainability work as well.
I feel like when I'm in the ratrace and I'm moving at the
speed of hyperspeed, right, Ijust go.
Productive is the only way Ihave to get this done have to,
have, to, have to and my nervoussystem is hijacked at that
(40:34):
point and I'm just in a state offight or flight and leveraging
that to produce.
It's like the blinders are onright, I'm focused on the
immediate task ahead and I'maddicted to getting it done.
I actually have no access tolong-term thinking or the
receptivity required forinnovative solutions and ideas.
(40:56):
It's almost like I can't seewhat's even possible because I'm
so hyperfixated and my body iskeeping me there in the
chemicals, the neurochemicalsthat are being transmitted.
So to actually break ourselvesout of that through a practice
like pleasure practice orslowing down, meditating, using
(41:18):
the breath to access ourpleasure.
It is the pattern interrupt ina way that shifts our state of
being.
Yeah, I guess I just wanted topoint out that difference
between short-term and long-termthinking and how, right now, if
we're not leading from thefeminine, we actually are losing
a lot of access to the verytypes of vantage points and
(41:43):
energies that are necessary forsustainability work long-term.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's really necessary.
It is sustainability by itself,because when I can feel this
receptive, feminine energy, Ifeel like I'm part of everything
and imagine me as an ecosystem.
There's openness, there's flow,there's pleasure, there's
receptivity and that's the statethat we can be in as humanity,
(42:10):
and that's the state wecultivate on earth, as opposed
to like this yeah, just like yousaid, like the rhetoric, like
putting a lot of pressure onourselves and stress, and each
of us can look at ourselves andbe like okay, how is my internal
state, what am I really feeling?
How is my body?
And could this be a reflectionof what we're actually doing to
(42:30):
the earth?
Because if I'm in thiscontracted and stressed state, I
will like with stress on otherthings around me.
So it's kind of it's like weare.
If we're sustainable, then wecan live sustainably here, and
that's part of it havingpleasure and being inner
feminine.
And the feminine in itself is soneeded for the future of
(42:52):
humanity, like the femininereceptivity, because the
feminine is the one who'sconnected to the void through
our womb or connected to thevoid, and we can only get the
intuition at the path throughthat void.
If we're not connected, we'remissing the whole picture.
We're working from the mind,which is like a whole.
(43:13):
It's very limited andsubjective and wants to have
safety and predictability andmeasured like analytics, like
it's logical and it's the mindis great to get us from, let's
say, like Europe to the US, likewe can find the whole trip, but
it cannot guide really thedirection.
(43:34):
So the direction will come fromthe feminine intuition, through
the void, and that's reallywhere we're going to have the
most breakthroughs as humanity,I believe, which don't come from
the mind but come from actuallyso much of like our receptivity
, you can call it whatever theconnection to source, connection
to your higher self, connectionto the universe, whatever that
(43:55):
is.
So that's where I believe thatthe new pioneering ideas will
come which will guide humans inthis heart-centered direction
and that's why now it's reallythe time to unlock this and a
lot of especially feminineleaders, but of course it's
always working on bothpolarities feminine, masculine
(44:16):
or in general, like sati, subtletransition.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, Beautifully said, and even in hearing you
paint that picture of what ispossible for humanity, when we
step into this type ofleadership and begin to embody
more feminine, it feels alsovery different that the
fear-based leadership or theego-driven leadership that we're
so accustomed to seeing,whether it's the people that we
(44:40):
actually work for and with orwhat's modeled to us in TV shows
, whatever it might be that someof that behavior has been
rewarded up until this point.
And again it's like thatstepping out of the grain into
something else to show up in anew way.
It might not look like theleadership that we're used to
seeing at first, and yet I canonly imagine the results that
(45:05):
would come from this right Ourhealth increasing and our
well-being increasing.
And I think back to those threemost common wounds that you
mentioned, or the most commontraumas invasion, scarcity and
rejection.
And I can actually see how,leading from this more feminine
space where we're being kind toourselves, we're cultivating
(45:27):
self-love by letting ourselvesfeel pleasure and not avoiding
that or depriving ourselves fromthat, and just feeling in my
own body how abundant this formof leadership feels If we slow
down.
Sometimes it feels wow.
Now that I'm in this pace, Ifeel like I have an abundance of
time and I'm in slow state andI'm actually doing more with
(45:51):
less energy.
It feels more efficient.
So these are just some of thetangible examples, at least,
that I've noticed in the lastyear of cultivating some of
these more feminine leadershippractices.
But I'm really curious, becausewe do still operate in a
culture where the mind loves tounderstand and see the results.
(46:12):
For those listeners who havemaybe never seen this type of
leadership modeled and havemaybe not seen the results, the
tangibility that can come fromit, what are you noticing in
your own life and in yourbusiness as far as the results
that have come from thesepractices?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I feel that the major result for me has been
definitely slowing down andstill continuing being in the
game.
So, slowing down and creatingspaciousness, that's been a huge
result in my life, and I mustsay that this is not to say
(46:51):
personally for me, because Ihave a one-person business.
Right now I have some supportas well.
My business did have a littlebit of financial dip when it was
really going to the majortransition, so in that sense, I
would say that when it comes toteams and bigger companies, it
just has to be done with a lotof caution and just knowing that
(47:15):
, okay, this is a process oflearning and we can still use
the mind.
This is why I think it's reallyimportant to do it timely,
because for me, what I did it,it was almost like it had to be
done there and I wanted to goreally fast.
I wanted to go, I wanted now,so that's how I opted, and so in
my case, it wasn't the easiesttransition, but I feel that the
(47:37):
way I help clients, for example,now, is to not do that mistake
like that I've done.
So, for example, what we dowith a lot of my clients is
we're like, okay, this is yourincome.
This is your main income rightnow.
How can you actually move intomore feminine way of being, into
more pleasure, while notjeopardizing that income and
even creating more income?
(47:59):
So some of them, for example,have come up with extra ID that
have generated more income intheir life plus their other
income that they're having, andsome of them are still in the
work that they're doing.
But they're also planning totransition.
But it's very little by little.
It's really we're taking itstep at a time.
(48:19):
So I think it's important tostart making a transition and
know that it's going to take abit of time and to still make
sure that you have, likeyourself, financially covered or
the organization.
It has to be step by step,little by little, process and
then test.
But I've had clients whoreceived opened up to receiving
a lot of money through thisprocess because it's just, you
(48:43):
need only one ID.
It's like, oh, I should focuson this product and then like
focusing on that product, thatthat's the intuition and we're
saving the intuition, and thenthen like a lot of income coming
from that.
So it can be super easy andsuper fast for some people, and
for some people it will take alonger kind of like timeline to
really transition, depending onhow the setup is.
(49:05):
I don't like like full bangtransition right away, Like I
think what's?
I feel like a little bit likewhat I've done, but it was
really yeah, I guess it was thetime to do it because I had
spaciousness in my life, so Ihad created the space to do that
.
But for my clients I oftentimesrecommend a very transitioned
(49:26):
approach.
And then it's super safe.
And then you can createactually extra income and align
more of your income streams toreceive from sources that feel
better or more aligned, andbecause what we're doing is
we're actually increasing yourlevel of actually we're not
increasing it like a person istapping into their own health
(49:47):
worth, and that's when a lot ofthe power can come from the
inside, but also then it's opento receiving new possibilities,
so that creates like a reallymagical combination to receive
more and from in bigger ways.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Amazing, yeah, and I imagine to the, I guess the
boundary work that can come aspart of that too.
As you open to receive and youbegin to understand your self
worth on different levels, youstart to feel like you're enough
.
And so over time I guess wegrow out of not having
boundaries or going againstourselves repeatedly.
(50:24):
And I know from you, know fromworking with you in what you
just said about finding the mostaligned income streams and how
it in this transitionary work,sometimes the thing that comes
through that's the mostintuitive and it keeps repeating
right.
For me it was cycle sinking.
I kept getting the intuitivehit.
This is the thing, this is therevenue stream that's actually
(50:47):
going to be the most effortless,bring you the most pleasure and
ease, and it's going to be themost financially lucrative.
And my mind rejected that for along time.
It was like how am I going tomake a business off cycle
sinking?
I'm not even a dietitian or anexpert in exercise, like what?
And little by little, the moreI would test that intuition and
(51:11):
honor it in these littleprototypes, the more I realized,
oh my gosh, that intuition isactually right.
That's true.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah.
So that's such a beautifulexample and I remember when he
had it in the actions, yourintuition was like, speaking
about it, I mean I like, okay,focus on this product, launch it
or create a freebie, and thatdone, just yeah, was so
successful, so successful, oh mygosh.
And so nailed, like really,it's so clear.
(51:41):
So I really love that Very goodexample, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, that clarity I mean you're using that word
clear.
I'm remembering how clear itfelt where, if we're in the
spaciousness and we're sittingdown with ourselves and we're
doing the work to check in, itcan feel so clear the more we do
that and open to receivingthese messages.
And so, yeah, I mean Clementina, we've covered a lot of ground
(52:06):
in this and I guess, as we winddown this conversation, if
listeners were wanting to beginthe transition and begin to do
some of that deep pattern orshadow healing work, to feel
safe enough to begin totransition into a more feminine
way, like what would be some ofthose initial action steps that
(52:28):
they could take, what resourcesor support might you recommend
if people want to get startedwith this in their own lives?
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, I would say just the most simple thing is
being pleasure.
So fine way to be in yourpleasure Maybe it's like sitting
outside and the trees andfeeling the wind and then just
for a moment taking a fewbreaths and with a longer exhale
, and just being like that for awhile and observing and finding
something new, maybe each day.
(52:57):
So that's one practice that'sreally embodied and super simple
to do At whole practicebreathing and just feeling the
body and connecting and justallowing yourself to feel your
body.
And if you cannot do that, ifyou cannot connect with your
body and just be in the presenceand allow to feel the magic of
life and just feel that pleasure, connect with your own
(53:18):
sensuality, then maybe there'ssomething, that there's a piece
that needs to be moved a little.
So people can always reach outto me as well and we can
absolutely speak a little bitabout the what the journey is or
their ads and what they reallywant and need in the moment, and
I can also guide them a little.
So I think Nicole will alsoshare my calendar link here,
(53:41):
which is a link for those peoplewho want to get a deeper
understanding of where they'reat and how can they actually
start taking the steps.
Other practices, or many anykind of embodiment practices,
are really useful Testing yourintuition, kind of like check,
like okay, what is my intuitionsaying?
And kind of like doing that andnoticing, oh, was this right or
(54:02):
wrong?
And sometimes people havedifferent ways of inviting
intuition.
The way that I guide is alittle bit different than what
we're used to, so intuitionneeds a lot of testing first,
and precisely asking questionsso we can get the right answers,
and then trusting it, which iswhere people fail most of the
time, like they don't trust itand they don't execute.
(54:22):
It's like, oh, it's not working.
Again, yeah, pointing with yourintuition could be interesting
as looking at that with smallerchoices and saying, oh, now I
was guided, and sometimes I doit as simple as the simplest
practice is just how does mybody feel?
Is it expanding or contracting?
And so that can also be it'snot the most precise way, but it
can definitely give a lot ofinformation as well about which
(54:46):
direction to go to.
But we store a lot in the body,so it's not the most precise,
but it has definitely led me toa very positive outcome and
amazing choices when I waslistening to the body and my
intuition.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Those are a few.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
And taking a little bit of spaciousness, I would say
as a feminine leader, to take alittle bit of time for
ourselves, going to meditationand then come back to the work
and see what actually has arosefrom that.
Maybe there is a new idea andnew insight that's coming up.
So taking spaciousness isimportant and I definitely would
(55:22):
say doing the inner work orworking with a coach and a guide
, it's going to be definitelymaking the biggest quantumly
progress that is safe and canguide people in the right ways,
and so that's something that Ihighly recommend.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Amazing and I can certainly attest to that as
someone who was the solo founderinitially and often feeling
like I was on an eye light withmy own healing, and to have that
fresh, honest mirror who isholding safe space and asking
questions or guiding me throughpractices that are different
(55:56):
than what I'm maybe familiarwith.
Maybe I didn't even know it waspossible.
I was exposed to so many uniquemeditations and embodiment work
through our time together, fromspeaking with my inner child
and doing some of that healingwork to visualizing my heart's
deepest desire.
There were so many things inthere that even if I had
(56:19):
researched on the internet howcan I heal X, y, z wound?
I don't think I would havegotten there on my own without a
guide.
So I totally resonate with whatyou're saying and appreciate
this idea of de-risking thetransition a bit by just getting
out there and practicing andexperiencing what it's like to
be in our own bodies and doingthose humble tests or those
(56:42):
humble prototypes just to seewhat might happen, because
there's no harm and no risk inthat and we might just surprise
ourselves the more we try that.
So I appreciate the invitationthat you're leaving listeners
with today.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, and then just one more final thing.
It doesn't have to be alwayslike a scary transition Not
everybody really wants totransition to something new but
just by changing our way ofbeing we change everything.
We can change our relationships.
My clients transformed theirrelationship, but they were to
transform how they show up inthe work as a leader.
And so then things change andsuddenly there are in their
(57:15):
gifts, in the place wherethey're working already, and so
it's just by changing our way ofbeing that we get to do that
and we get to live our morealigned life, no matter if we're
staying in the same job orbusiness or if we want to
transition over time with smallsteps.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Yeah, yeah, amazing.
Wow, clementina, this has justbeen both such a pleasure and so
purposeful to be in thisconversation with you, and I can
only imagine what comes of thisfor anyone who goes out there
and tries some of the thingsthat you're mentioning.
I'll definitely include yourCalendly link in the show notes
(57:57):
for anyone who wants to get intouch and just experience the
absolute magic that you are as aguide.
So I feel genuinely excited foranyone who goes on that journey
with you and shares some spacewith you.
So again, thank you for beinghere today and having this
incredible, meaningfulconversation.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasure, suchan honor, very inspiring for me
too as well, and sharing aspace with you is always magical
.
So thank you for inviting meand for everybody that's
listening.
Lots of love to you.
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