July 29, 2024 • 43 mins
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Join Neddie and Brian as they interview Elliot Sands, the executive director of Live Faith First, sharing his compelling story of growing up in Livermore, California, and relocating to Nigeria during his high school years. Elliot's narrative sheds light on how these cross-cultural experiences profoundly impacted his faith and understanding of reconciliation. His insightful reflections offer a unique perspective on the importance of embracing diverse communities to live truly reconciled lives.
We also delve into the foundation of Live Faith First, an organization born from the societal tragedy of George Floyd's death, which aims to bring together diverse backgrounds to foster unity. Elliot discusses how the organization collaborates with nonprofits in San Jose to support those facing homelessness and economic instability, emphasizing the significance of addressing systemic issues rather than just offering temporary solutions.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled, episode 56.
(00:33):
I'm your host, brian Crawford,and I am with my great friend,
close friend, very close, veryclose, very close friend, very
good friend, nettie Winters.
Nettie, I can't wait to getAustin Hoyle, the Reverend Dr
Austin Hoyle, back.
Hopefully he'll be back nextweek, but we miss you, austin.
(00:53):
We're looking forward to seeingyou, but in the meantime, we
want to give a quick shout outto some other friends that we
have, folks like Nissan and StDominic's Hospital and Atmos
Energy Regions Foundation.
Brown Missionary Baptist Church.
Christian Life Church.
Ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, ms Anne Winters, thank you so
much for everything that you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
(01:14):
and today, what we are doing, Iwould love to get a shout out
One of our most favoritelisteners.
Sherry Tides.
Shout out to Sherry Tides.
Thank you so much for yourfaithful listening to Living
Reconciled, and hopefully youwill enjoy this episode because
we have a really great guest.
Elliot Sands is the executivedirector for Live Faith First,
(01:37):
and he will get a chance to tellyou a little bit about that.
Elliot, we got a chance to meethim recently because he
interviewed us, and so I thought, based on Elliot's ministry and
the work that he is doing onthe West Coast, I thought it
would be a great idea for us toreturn the favor by interviewing
Elliot, and so we asked Elliotto come and join us on episode
(01:58):
56 of Living Reconciled.
Brother, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great A few hoursbehind y'all here in San Jose,
california.
Why don't you start our timeoff by just telling our
listeners a little bit aboutElliott Sands, so, born in
California, born and raised.
It's unusual in California tohave native Californians In fact
, I don't know third generation.
I think my great, mygrandfather, was born here, so
(02:24):
this is home.
This is.
This is where I set up camp Inhigh school, actually eighth
grade, ninth grade, and then,starting in 10th grade, my
family moved to Nigeria.
So my dad, I grew up, my dad wasa dentist and Lord got ahold of
his life and he decided to sellhis dental practice, be a
(02:45):
dentist in Joss, nigeria, and soI spent high school there, my
last few years of high schoolthere and I bring that up
because it has such a formativeeffect All of a sudden you went
from the neighborhood I grew upin.
Livermore.
California at the time was very, very white.
Nothing you can do about whereyou're born in the neighborhood
(03:05):
you're in, right, that was,that's what it was.
And uh, now I was going to ahigh school where we had 30
different nationalities.
I'll live in nigeria.
Half of it was, you know, moreor less nigerians, um, and so
just got to see so much more ofthe world, not only nigeria, but
also just to my friends and soon, and so just a great time.
(03:28):
And you don't.
It's another one of thosethings you don't realize when
you're in the middle of it.
It's when you're looking backat a decade later, two decades
later, and you're like, oh, mygoodness, this is, this is
amazing.
So anyway, fast forward.
I went to Westmont College.
Yeah, you went through that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Hold on, you went through that too fast.
I want to understand andappreciate going from an
all-white community to the otherextreme of the world, not only
in a different part of like thedetergent commercial not just
white, but really white, Reallywhite.
Yeah, really white.
And it's not like going downthe street across the states or
(04:04):
or to another state man.
You went to all differentnation, country and and there
you are, as as as Jared Clowerwould say, flung right into the
midst of this multicultural,multiracial society.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So I worked for you, so I loved it.
It was a great experience forme.
Now, definitely different.
So like when we would walk downthe street in Nigeria, go to
the market, you know, whateveryou would always get what I'll
call catcalls, but they werecalled bature.
Bature is white man, or it'sactually means peeled one like
an orange, like you peel theorange, and it's white on the
(04:42):
inside.
So I would yield one and uh,and you just got used to it,
like that was just what.
You know, you're, you're.
I was the only white facewalking down the street, and so
it didn't surprise me, did youget called out?
Um, but what was interesting is, after I'd been there for two
or three years, I stoppedhearing it.
So either they stopped sayingit or I just ignored it, like it
(05:05):
just never, never actually wentinto my eardrums anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You got a tan man.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And the other thing too is I'm six foot two and so
there's no hiding.
Wow, there's no hiding.
There's no like.
You're just you're going tostand out, like that's all there
is to it.
But what always is interestingto me is everybody was so kind,
so friendly, so loving, soaccepting.
So there was never this like ohBature, now I'm going to.
(05:34):
You know, I guess I did hearanother Nigerian word is bulala,
which means beating.
And so there were occasionswhere I heard you know, you're
(06:12):
going to get a bulala, and likeI, I would just start running
Like I don't need, I don't knowwhat, I don't know why or what
I'm doing, but I gots to go now.
So I also learned, you know,just uh, there 1986.
And we went and we had a meal ina church member's home, and
those were the first times whereI really liked the food, the
smells, but also just thatrealization that the world is so
different from what I was usedto in Livermore, california,
right when people are cookingover wood, you know, there's no
stoves the dad eats first, theyoungest child was whatever's
(06:37):
left over, like, literally, thefood would go down from dad to
the oldest son and to the momand then the younger kids, and
so you start to see that, likethere's, the oldest son came
before mom, yeah, yeah, wow, wow.
So, uh, and that just that'sthe way it went.
So if there wasn't enough food,like the youngest just wouldn't
(06:59):
eat that day, right, or theywouldn't eat until later.
And, uh, I, people would bekind as far as like they try to
save some for everybody, but youknow, uh, that didn't always
work that way.
And uh, remember just sittingand being uncomfortable because
it's hot.
You know I'm sitting on thefloor, you know the, the food
(07:20):
and smells are not my favorite.
Now, I would, would like justlove to have food there because,
you know, I, you learn to lovethe cuisine, but, uh, but it's
in the midst of that beinguncomfortable that you get to be
transformed, that you get to,like you know, fall in love and
find out new things, and so Ithink that's a big piece of what
we all are doing.
Is you got to go through thiskind of uncomfortable place?
(07:42):
Yeah, and then, on the otherside of that uncomfortable place
, there tends to be actually acomfort, so that, if you ask me,
ellie, would you like to goback to miyango, nigeria, and
sit in.
You know this family's home.
Sit in sunday's home, would youdo?
Yes, please put me on a flightright now, like I would
absolutely love to do that, butit's because kind of went
(08:05):
through that uncomfortableseason of like this is new, this
smells different.
Why am I sitting on the floorRight?
Why am I eating with my hands?
You know all those types ofthings, and so, anyway, that's a
little bit about thatexperience.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, elliot, I say often that the current of
relationships flows all the time, flows towards the familiar.
And so in order to actuallyembark upon relationships that
are different, that are unique,that are not based on what we
know and talk like us, thinklike us, act like us, vote like
(08:43):
us, that's going to alwaysrequire effort because you're
going to have to swim againstthe current.
You're going to have to swimupstream.
The relationship currentsalways flow downstream and
they're easier and they're morecomfortable, and when you walk
in a room, you're looking forthe downstream, you're looking
for those that are familiar,look like you, think like you,
act like you.
Familiar, look like you, thinklike you, act like you.
(09:04):
And so there's always discomfortin relationships that are
introducing new cultures and newbeliefs and new ideas and new
backgrounds and experiences, andso that's a phenomenal
experience that you just sharewith us, and it sounds like that
experience shaped you a littlebit in terms of what you're
doing today.
(09:24):
So talk to us a little bitabout let's fast forward and
you're back in the States,you're moving back into the
States and pick up there andtell us a little bit about your
journey and how the Lord usedthat to shape what you're doing
today.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'll start with college andthen we'll, we'll, we'll, fast
forward way beyond that.
But it was interesting.
Coming back from Nigeria, myfreshman and sophomore year in
college were actually one of themore challenging year seasons
in my life Um, not the most, butit was a significant season
because, uh, I wasn't like thepeople around me anymore.
(09:58):
I had spent so much timethrough years informative years
living in Nigeria that, thoughon the outside, you know, I look
like I belong, I don't have anaccent, I sound like I belong,
you know I dress like I belongbut I never felt like I belonged
and I never had that place notnever, never.
(10:19):
But it was unusual for me tohave that place where I truly
felt like I connected, and so itwas an interesting season to
kind of find myself, to find mypeople, but also to kind of
restore who am I, who do I wantto be so kind of fast forwarding
from that and I say thatbecause I think it plays into
(10:40):
kind of what we're all doing toois that place where we sit.
Sometimes we sit in a placewhere we not only don't feel
comfortable, we don't feel likewe belong.
Ended up, I actually I had madea deal with God.
I said look, lord, I want tomajor in Bible, but I want to be
a dentist.
So you're going to get me intodental school and if not, I'll
(11:01):
go to seminary.
And never wise to make dealswith God.
I did not get into dentalschool.
I didn't like I'm was.
God must be right.
How do you make?
How do you?
How do you?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
make a deal with god.
How do you know that he agreedto the deal?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
right, I don't know.
Apparently he did not.
Then he did not agree to thenews at all, right.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Is that one of those?
I heard God say this because Iheard it in my own mind, Right.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, no, no, no, no.
There was no hearing, there wasonly telling.
I was just thinking, no, Idon't think it's going to happen
.
Oh God, this is what'shappening.
This is my deal with you.
So, anyway, ended up going backto school to get my master's in
business, because my religiousstudies degree was not getting
me anywhere.
So I got out of tech for a fewyears and in the midst of that,
(11:55):
god just put a discontent in mysoul and ended up becoming a
pastor in 2004.
And then in 2007, I actuallywent back to seminary or started
seminary.
So that deal that I made when Iwas 19,.
It took me about, you know, adecade or so, a little more 15
years, but, yeah, I pastored 17years and then, yeah, started
(12:16):
working at Live Faith, firstalmost two years ago.
Now, tell us a little bit aboutthat journey.
Yeah, so, something that wasstarted by a gentleman named
Vintage Foster, and so he's thefounder, now just chairman of
the board is a successfulbusiness person, marketing, and
(12:38):
right after George Floyd, hegathered about 100 people at a
church to pray.
He gathered about a hundredpeople at a church to pray and
out of that prayer meeting he'slooking around and he's like
there's a variety of ethnicitieshere, there's a variety of
religious backgrounds here,there's people that don't even
believe in God, but we're allcoming together because of this
(13:03):
tragedy that's taken place inour society.
And at that point he says youknow, we, we got to do something
like we, we, we, we have to putan organization together
because there is a togethernessin us that we want, and
unfortunately, we come around,often around tragedy, rather
than like kind of making this anormal part of our life, and so,
uh, so he actually started theorganization in 2020, and then,
(13:24):
of course, we're in the middleof COVID and all of that, and so
, uh, they brought me on, like Isaid, in 2022, about two years
ago to really help push these uminitiatives forward.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Um, and the.
The main goal of live faithfirst is, is, you know, building
unity in God's church.
Um, and we do that by buildingpastor cohorts so they can build
relationships, culture,ethnicity, experience.
Give me a feel, give us a feel,rather, of what a cohort
gathering would look like forLive Faith First pastor cohorts.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, and it interestingly it depends on the
region.
So I have one about an hoursouth of here and actually the
diversity is among denominations.
There's one African American,everybody else is white, but we
have a Lutheran, a Presbyterian,a Ko theology denominations,
and how do we kind of bring allof that together?
(14:38):
Here in San Jose there are moregathering.
It actually is ethnically.
There's a lot of diversity, aswell as the neighborhoods that
people sit in, and so for thoseit's more like okay, how do we,
(15:01):
how do we build relationshipsacross some, some of these
divides, but also, um, whatneighborhoods we want to really
dig into, serve in and startmaking a difference?
Um, and so that's the kind ofthat's the next big stage.
Our cohorts are relatively newand so our next big stage really
is okay, let's find communities, and so there's a few
(15:24):
communities here in San Josethat we're just beginning to dig
in.
For me, serving is not so muchhow I want it to be, more than
just putting a Band-Aid onsomething, wow, so an example,
and there's nothing wrong ifthis is what your church does.
So don't hear what I'm notsaying.
(15:45):
But we can have like foodprograms, right, where people
come, they pick up food.
That is awesome.
Like that needs to be done.
There's food scarcity and so weneed that.
But there's often root causesbehind that in communities that
are causing some of thosechallenges, whether it's an
economic issue, whether it's afamily issue, whether it's drugs
(16:05):
, whether it's gangs, whetheryou kind of fill in the blank
for what it could be.
And so what we want to do is weactually want to come into
communities, figure out whatsome of those key pain points
are and then bring nonprofits into help serve those particular
needs and so that we're actuallyaddressing the needs in the
community, so that what we say,that the poverty is being
(16:28):
alleviated.
So it's not just, hey, let'sget you food for the week.
Let's kind of step back behindthat and, yes, we may need to do
food for the week to get youthrough, but can we go behind
that and find what some of theroot causes are so we can start
to actually address those?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like a fire in the houseburn um fire in the house that
you keep running, running to putout, and and and eventually you
find, okay, we put the fire out, but there's like incredible
electrical damage in the wallsthat keeps sparking these fires.
So so we, we can put the fireout, but we got to eventually
figure out how to get inside thewalls and really do the
(17:07):
necessary work that we got to doin order to ensure that the
fires don't come back.
Right, Right.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, right Now, that's exactly it.
And in San Jose there's asignificant homeless population
in our county, like 35,000 to40,000 people.
But when you compare that tothe extremely low-income
communities in our neighborhoodor in our Santa Clara County,
(17:32):
there's actually 350,000 peoplewho are one or two paychecks
away from being homeless, whoare one or two paychecks or who
are making decisions on do wehave rice, do I get diapers, do
we buy baby formula, do we?
People are having to make thosechoices, and so for us, part of
it is if we can go on the otherside.
(17:53):
And then the homeless challengeis so it's in your face, right,
you see it on the streets, yousee it under the bridges, like
that, you see it by the creeks.
But when I drive by somebody'shome, I don't see that there's
poverty in the home.
I just see a home that maybelooks a little run down, but
otherwise you figure it's okay.
And so one of the areas we wantto go is to those extremely low
(18:15):
income communities to pull themback away from the cliff of
homelessness, right, and so thatwe can start to, like people
can have a little bit of goingto to, you know, survive and
thrive and so on, right, Right,right, nettie, I'm thinking this
.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
this very much aligns with some of the things that
we're doing at MissionMississippi.
He talked about the cohort.
We you know, elliot, we'relooking even at our first
inaugural cohort, so to speak.
We're called it the MississippiLeadership Initiative and it
extends past pastors.
We're just looking forreconcilers that have leadership
(18:56):
ability and leadershipreputation in their communities
but passionate about Christianreconciliation, to bring in and
to have dialogue, discussion,challenge and equip and then
send back out into their localcontext to influence and impact
the community in a real and deepway.
And so very much, you know, it'sinteresting to see God at work
(19:18):
both, both in your neck of thewoods, san Jose, california, and
and all the way down here inMississippi, and he's doing
similar things.
So that's really interesting.
I'm interested to, as we talkabout similarities, I'm
interested to compare notes tosee if you see challenges that
are similar.
Of course you talk about LilFaye first being birthed out of
(19:40):
this challenge, this kind ofcatalytic moment with the George
Floyd murder.
What challenges do you see inyour neck of the woods, in your
space, that Live Faith First?
We talked about some of thecommunity challenges economic
(20:01):
disparities but what challengesin reconciliation in particular?
Do you see in your communitythat Real Faith First is diving
first into trying to bring someresolution and some support to?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, that's a great question and, like you say,
every community kind of bringstheir own kind of set of
challenges and of course, youknow, california is a very
interesting place for all kindsof reasons.
I will say that.
But you know, kind of one ofthem is we're very transient,
right, so we have a lot of justpeople who are not from
(20:33):
California initially Coming andgoing, coming and going, and
extremely diverse, so it's notjust African-American and white,
you know, african-american andeverything in between, right
Asian, hispanic, latino, all ofthat.
And so it's interesting thatsegregation that we see is
(21:03):
around neighborhoods, and sothere's neighborhoods that are
predominantly Hispanic orpredominantly Vietnamese or
predominantly Chinese orpredominantly Indian, and often
those communities don't overlapa lot.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Does that extend Elliot to business?
Does that extend to worship aswell, beyond just living space
living quarters?
Does that extend um Elliot tobusiness?
Does that extend to worship aswell, um, beyond just living
space living quarters, would yousay so for?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
church, absolutely.
Uh.
Now there are definitelychurches that you walk in and
you're like, oh, this looks likeour community, uh, but you can
also go into churches and it'slike, no, we're, we're, this is
the you know, and you fill inthe blank ethnicity, church, um,
and so, absolutely there.
And yeah, businesses, it's.
It is interesting Like we havean Asian market not too far from
(21:51):
you and you go in and it's it.
It always trips me out becausethe you know, the vast majority
of the customers there are Asian, but then like about a third
are Hispanic, because it's kindof in a Hispanic neighborhood,
and then like there's like 5%maybe white people.
I'm just kind of guessing onthose numbers, but it is kind of
interesting when you're like,you're looking around and you're
(22:11):
like, well, you know, I'm backin Nigeria again, I'm, I'm I'm
not the majority here at all,you know, but it's also a bit of
a mix.
So it's an interestingCalifornia's kind of a weird
beast.
But one of the things you saidon our podcast that I really
appreciated is we rub elbows butwe're not good friends, and
(22:33):
that really resonated with mebecause, yeah, absolutely In
your workplace, absolutely thegrocery store, the mall, you
know, anytime you go to concerts, whatever you go out, for the
most part, you know, anytime yougo to concerts, whatever you go
out, for the most part you knowit's very diverse.
But is that leading to closefriendships?
(22:53):
Uh, is that leading to closeconnection?
And I think that's the piece ofwhere we really wanted to
overcome that at live faith.
First is how are we givingopportunity for people to
overlap and build friendship,build relationship?
Um cause, it's one thing tolike put up with one another,
but it's another thing to lovesomebody, and that love is what
we're aiming for.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, you know Mississippi, the whole DNA and
everything is built around thisrelational relationship, prayer
kind of thing, and you know, Iwant to know what attracted you
and how you connected withMississippi and why you were
interested in what we're doingin Mississippi all the way from.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
California.
Hey, yeah, one.
I think it's because, I mean,there's a couple of things.
One you guys have been doingthis for so many years, this for
so many years, and so just thehistory, the experience, the
things that I'm able to gleanfrom what you guys have done,
(23:50):
it's an honor to get to learnlike, okay, people are doing
this.
It's also an honor to learnfrom people who are doing it and
, from my perspective, one ofthe more segregated, separated
communities in the nation.
Now again, this is California,looking at Mississippi.
But when I kind of picture thatthat's, that's kind of that's
kind of the picture I have in mymind, it actually I told my
(24:10):
brother-in-law, who lives inHouston, like it kind of freaks
me out to think about doing thisin the South, like I'm really
comfortable with it inCalifornia because I know this
place but the thoughts of doingthis, so you know, and because
you guys bring a whole differentyou know history and attitude
and background, community wise,and then, of course, y'all what
you have done.
(24:31):
So for me it's because, I'll behonest, I feel like you're way
more on the front lines of thisthan I am, in that you know, if
there's racism in Californiait's way more hidden.
I'll just say it that way,where I it my.
My opinion is that inMississippi it might be a little
(24:52):
more obvious obvious a littlemore out there, and so that's
why I've loved just to hear thethings you've done, but also
like, hey, these are peoplewho've been doing it on the
front line for decades and theythey definitely have something
to speak into how we do thisreally well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So, yeah, I think I think historically, you know,
the racism, race, racialdivision, things of that nature
certainly is more overt in theSouth than it, than it would
have been considered inCalifornia.
Obviously, california had itsown share of stories as well,
but our history certainly is alot more vast and a lot more
deep as it relates to racialdivision.
But I do think that 2024, thata lot of the struggle as it
relates to segregation,separation, is definitely more
covert in Mississippi, just ascovert in many ways as you would
(25:45):
see in California, like youmentioned, that separation and
segregation and people probablyall saying to themselves we
don't hate each other, right, wejust we don't connect and we
don't have any any real desireor motivation to do so, even
though we've been called by Godand all you know, in all
situations that we read inscripture we hear this very loud
(26:09):
call from God that we should beunited.
We have kind of settled in ourpockets of differences, whether
it be ethnicity, politics, etcetera, and so I think that's
not just a California issue butthat's a Mississippi issue,
where and in fact I think is oneof the challenges you talk
about that may be unique, Ithink, one of the challenges.
That's unique for Mississippi isthat because we don't have the
(26:31):
historical piece anymore andwe've seen, or we've seen a lot
of progression historicallywhere we're not using separate
water fountains and and we dohave the freedom to exist in the
same space, have the freedom toexist in the same space, I
think it's easy forMississippians to say, man, look
(26:52):
at how far we've come, we don'thave any further to go.
It's like no, no, no, we stillgot plenty, plenty room to grow
and plenty room to travel, orplenty more road to travel on
this journey.
But it's easy for us to lookback at our past and say, man,
we've come so far.
I don't think we have much,much room to grow.
And so I think that might beone of the distinctions between
a California and a and a and aMississippi.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
No, absolutely, and I do think that, like you say,
here, you just kind of go yeah,we're together, nobody's
fighting, you know, nobody'sbeing lynched, there's nothing,
you know, overt going on.
By the way, there's no lynchesin Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
It's good, it's very good.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But you know, I mean, around COVID we have a massive
Asian population and so Asianhate grew at the beginning of
COVID.
Oh yeah, and so it still exists.
And it's interesting when youhear it.
I mean, for me I'm shocked.
Like, really, we still thinkthis way, like, whether or not
(27:53):
the origin of this is the viruswas in China, which, right Like
it was, so let's go with that.
But like, really, the averageperson who's been living in San
Francisco or San Jose or Fremontfor their entire life, like
they were born, raised here,like it's their fault, like is
that what we're doing right now?
Come on y'all and so, um it, it, it's.
(28:16):
It's weird, and I think one ofthe things I think you touched
on this is there tends to be anapathy around this because we've
come far enough, or that ideathat, well, we've come far
enough, it's good, it's goodenough, right, like it's it's
enough, and to to realize itit's, it's not enough yet,
(28:37):
absolutely Still, it's still notenough.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's certainly not where God wanted it to be.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Absolutely Right, absolutely.
There's so much, so much roomleft.
And I see this too in very,very much like a, like a muscle
that atrophies if you don't workit.
If we don't spend time engagedin these kinds of conversations
regularly, if we don't spendtime crossing crossing those
barriers regularly, building andcultivating healthy
(29:07):
relationships across thesedividing lines regularly or
regularly, then it starts toatrophy and we start to lose our
ability to do it well.
And we have a.
We have a tendency to have awartime mentality when it comes
to racial division, in the sensethat something happens, whether
it be COVID, and all of asudden this kind of real this,
(29:28):
this real kind of out of nowhereAsian distrust starts to crop
up and you're like wait a second, what's going on?
Or George Floyd or Ahmaud Arberyhappens and we say wait a
second, what's going on?
And then all of a sudden werally in and and we say, okay,
we're going to pray together,we're going to have some
discussions, we're going to praytogether, we're going to have
(29:58):
some discussions, we're going to, we're going to do some things,
we're going to host some events, and then that happens.
And then we, when we get backto quote, unquote peacetime, we
start to kind of dissipate againand go back to our corners and
say everything's OK and andstart dismissing the reality
that no, there's just some,they're just simmering under the
surface, is another opportunityfor an explosion if we don't do
this kind of work during theseasons of peace, and so we tend
to not have a very goodpreparation plan in peacetime,
and so that's why wartime for us, as it relates to racial
(30:19):
division, is always so explosive.
Is that?
Is that something thatresonates with you and you guys
over at Live Faith First?
Is that something thatresonates?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
with you and you guys over at Live Faith First, a
hundred percent.
I've said this multiple times.
Unfortunately, another GeorgeFloyd is coming.
It's going to happen and, as achurch, are we in a better place
now than we were in 2020.
Because I know as a pastor at achurch executive pastor at a
(30:49):
church I was dealing with theemotions of how could this
happen in our country, theemotions of there's riots
happening in my neighborhood,there's protests that as soon as
it gets dark, it turns to riotsand mattresses being set on
fire.
And the protest stream came.
(31:11):
Like I live on the corner of13th and Reed or Williams, and
they came down to Williams, onehouse off of mine, and sent them
down another way.
So I'm dealing with that.
And then you're also and justthe emotions of it dealing with
it in that like, wow, this ishappening around me.
Why are there's nothing buthelicopters and sirens and all
(31:33):
of the discombobulation in that.
And then how do you shepherd achurch through this?
You know, feeling absolutelylost.
For what's the right response?
Like, is this?
Like just, we need anotherbible study?
Yeah, let's just have acommunity group curriculum
around.
Uh, you know, ethnicreconciliation.
And then we've done our dutyright, we're good, let's let's
(31:55):
spend six weeks, right, let's doa six-week study and then, once
we do that, hey, we're good,we're good, we have a lot of
it'll be video driven too, we'llhave around it, and then we're
done and it's all within our ownchurch and with our own comfort
zone, right, all this stuff.
And so for me, it was like Iwant us to be better, so that
(32:17):
there's a group whether it'sfive churches or 50 churches
this shows up on the hall, onthe city hall, where there's
protests going on, and thisgroup of pastors is saying we
feel your pain, we love ally'all.
Can we pray for peace in themidst of this and actually be
the healing balm that the churchis designed to be for our
(32:41):
larger community?
And so I love this analogy thatyou use the wartime, peacetime
kind of analogy, because I feellike that's exactly it, and I
think that harkens back to theapathy that I mentioned a minute
ago, because now it's like,well, we're good and we're good,
and maybe I did enough work in2020 that our church will be
(33:01):
fine and it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You know, our definition of a peacetime is the
lack of conflict.
In actuality, it's just underthe surface, it's like a tip of
the iceberg, and you know, andso we, we, we think, until
George Floyd happens, everythingis OK.
But then, when it happened, allof this stuff bubbles up like a
(33:26):
volcano.
George Floyd happens,everything is okay, but then,
when it happened, all of thisstuff bubbles up like a volcano.
We're like where did that comefrom?
Well, it was there all the time, we just didn't recognize it.
So it's got to be all gone.
I was thinking a minute ago,when you were talking about
George peacetime, wartime asBrian described I was just
thinking about what happenedwith Peter in Galatians 2, when
(33:48):
Paul showed up for his re-upsand called Peter in the act of
walking away from the Gentiles,when he had been hanging out
with them and joined the pig man, and all of a sudden now can't
do that because his brothershowed up and he played the part
of the hypocrite, to the pointthat Paul had to call out
(34:10):
Barnabas as well.
And so it's interesting how thatmakeup of what we consider
peacetime and what we considerwartime because you know, we
think, well, nobody's hanginganybody, nobody's, you know,
wearing sheets, at least notobvious anyway and so everything
is copacetic.
(34:30):
In actuality it's not, and weall combine in the same spaces,
but we're separated within thespace we occupy.
It's always amazing to me.
I ship out to Mississippimeeting and they say, okay, come
in, and we're going to have tomove because all the white folks
sitting at the table, all theblack folks sitting at the table
, all the black folks sitting atthe table, they're having a
great time.
And then you look and see, andisn't this beautiful?
Aren't we united?
Look at how united we are.
(34:51):
We're all in this room together.
That's always interesting to mewhen we decide, not that the
circumstances of what'shappening in reality decide, but
we decide within our own mindwhat is okay, what is not okay
as it relates to the racerelationship.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Hey, elliot man, I know you'rea busy man, so let's turn the
corner here and wrap up byallowing you some time to talk
about what's encouraging you asyou think about.
We've talked about challengesthat we're facing both in
Mississippi and in California.
Talk a little bit about what'sencouraging you as you think
about what's happening inCalifornia the work of
reconciliation with Live FaithFirst.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, the big thing coming up for us.
We're an interestingorganization because, you know,
for one, we're very on theground with cohorts and serving
and so on.
But then anytime there's kindof larger, kind of cultural
polarization, we also want tohave a voice in that.
And so it's election season,right, it's 2024.
(35:57):
Presidential election is is afew months away, heating up here
, and so, starting in August,we're going to do a pretty
significant campaign which we'recalling LRK, which stands for
Love, respect and Kindness, andit's our opportunity to speak
into our nation really and sayno matter what you believe, no
(36:18):
matter what your political partyis, no matter what your
background is I mean all of thethings that we choose to divide
us we have to treat one anotherwith love, respect and kindness,
like that is the norm thatshould sit within our
polarization in our societyright now, and as a nation,
we've, like actuallypolarization wise returned back
(36:40):
to post-reconstruction erapolarization.
So right after civil war, whenthere was a ton of polarization,
that's like we're at the samelevel again now, and so it's
really exciting.
So Absolutely, hopefully, bythe time this comes out, go
check out our website,mustdobetterorg.
Mustdobetterorg.
We have a pledge there thatsays talking about hey, how do
(37:02):
we treat one another with love,respect and kindness, community?
To do that, we have a gratitudejournal.
So do 30 days around.
The truth is is we get so caughtup in some of these like
minutiae that the honest truthis it doesn't matter that much.
And so how do we buildgratitude into our lives so that
some of these things which wemight see on some of the news
(37:24):
networks they get ahold of usput that fear in us.
We need to be looking elsewhere.
So Gratitude Journal, we havecommunity group curriculum, like
video driven, and one is Biblebased and another is community
based.
So we're looking like, hey,churches invite people from your
community and it doesn't haveto say Jesus to actually have
(37:46):
Jesus in it.
So all of these concepts.
If you go to mustdobetterorgit's not a Christian website,
other than the underpinnings ofit are 100% Christian but you
won't see Bible verses, youwon't see the name of Jesus,
because we know that there'speople who they automatically
(38:07):
tune out as soon as it becomes areligious thing.
And so this is what's excitingme right now is what we're doing
with LRK.
Our hope is that this will be amovement through California,
but we hope it crosses thenation to some degree, crosses
(38:27):
the uh, the nation to somedegree, and just remind people
that there's another way totreat one another, that we don't
have to get caught up in thepolarization and that, uh, we
can, we can live LRK and thatlove, respect and kindness and,
um, maybe make a little bit of adifference in this election
season.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Amen, amen.
Our theme this year, elliot, isliving reconciled by loving all
our neighbors, and we thoughtabout that thing very much with
the election season in mind, andhow easy it is when these
political moments come to thesurface, how easy it is for us
(39:00):
to start otherizing people andto no longer see the people that
we meet along the way as theneighbors that Jesus has called
and commanded us to love welland to extend ourselves to and
towards.
And so it becomes very easy tolook at Elliot Sands and
whatever Republican, democrat orindependent label he wears and
(39:24):
to immediately, based on thatlabel, start otherizing you
rather than seeing you as aneighbor that God has called me
and commanded me of well.
And so I love, I love the LRK.
We'll be definitely praying andsupporting you guys in that
movement.
I'm going to spend some timejotting some notes down in the
gratitude journal myself toremind myself of all of the
(39:46):
wonderful things that God hasdone for us and how we should be
grateful for those things.
And you're right, elliot, man,gratitude does fuel so much calm
and so much peace and so muchwarm in the way that we engage
the world around us, and sothat's a wonderful initiative,
brother.
Thank you so much for sharingabout that For someone who needs
(40:06):
to get in contact with ElliotSands and Live Faith First.
How can they keep up with you?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, so our organization's website is
livefaithfirstorg, so feel freeto go there If you actually want
to reach out to me.
There's a connect button thereand send me a note.
I'm also on Instagram.
It's probably where I am mostly, but you'll find all of
everything.
Live faith first is at livefaith first, so YouTube for our,
(40:33):
our, our, our shorts and, and,uh, our podcast and Instagram,
facebook all of that is at livefaith first, so that's where
you'll find us Fantastic,fantastic Brother.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Thank you so much for for joining us today.
We really really appreciate itFor our listeners who are
listening in.
You can always get in contactwith us at Living Reconciled.
Any podcast app that you useyou can connect with us there
and, please, we would love foryou to like, share and subscribe
to this podcast.
Also, feel free to visit us onmissionmississippiorg.
(41:05):
If there's any way we cansupport you as it relates to
coming to your church, yourschool, your business, for
training, for speakingengagements, for encouragement,
we would love to connect withyou.
We also have, on September the26th of this year September the
26th at the Brandon Civic Center, our annual Living Reconciled
celebration.
It is going to be a day filledwith all sorts of fun, filled
(41:28):
with all sorts of encouragementand growth and learning.
We have a conference in theafternoon.
We have a banquet event in theevening.
That's sure to be a beautifuland fun time and we would love
for you to take part in that.
So you can get more informationon that at our website,
missionmississippiorg.
It's been a fantastic podcastwith Elliot Sands and my good
(41:50):
friend Nettie Winters.
We're signing off here sayingGod bless, god bless, thanks for
joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(42:12):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled, episode 56.
(00:33):
I'm your host, brian Crawford,and I am with my great friend,
close friend, very close, veryclose, very close friend, very
good friend, nettie Winters.
Nettie, I can't wait to getAustin Hoyle, the Reverend Dr
Austin Hoyle, back.
Hopefully he'll be back nextweek, but we miss you, austin.
(00:53):
We're looking forward to seeingyou, but in the meantime, we
want to give a quick shout outto some other friends that we
have, folks like Nissan and StDominic's Hospital and Atmos
Energy Regions Foundation.
Brown Missionary Baptist Church.
Christian Life Church.
Ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, ms Anne Winters, thank you so
much for everything that you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
(01:14):
and today, what we are doing, Iwould love to get a shout out
One of our most favoritelisteners.
Sherry Tides.
Shout out to Sherry Tides.
Thank you so much for yourfaithful listening to Living
Reconciled, and hopefully youwill enjoy this episode because
we have a really great guest.
Elliot Sands is the executivedirector for Live Faith First,
(01:37):
and he will get a chance to tellyou a little bit about that.
Elliot, we got a chance to meethim recently because he
interviewed us, and so I thought, based on Elliot's ministry and
the work that he is doing onthe West Coast, I thought it
would be a great idea for us toreturn the favor by interviewing
Elliot, and so we asked Elliotto come and join us on episode
(01:58):
56 of Living Reconciled.
Brother, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm doing great.
I'm doing great A few hoursbehind y'all here in San Jose,
california.
Why don't you start our timeoff by just telling our
listeners a little bit aboutElliott Sands, so, born in
California, born and raised.
It's unusual in California tohave native Californians In fact
, I don't know third generation.
I think my great, mygrandfather, was born here, so
(02:24):
this is home.
This is.
This is where I set up camp Inhigh school, actually eighth
grade, ninth grade, and then,starting in 10th grade, my
family moved to Nigeria.
So my dad, I grew up, my dad wasa dentist and Lord got ahold of
his life and he decided to sellhis dental practice, be a
(02:45):
dentist in Joss, nigeria, and soI spent high school there, my
last few years of high schoolthere and I bring that up
because it has such a formativeeffect All of a sudden you went
from the neighborhood I grew upin.
Livermore.
California at the time was very, very white.
Nothing you can do about whereyou're born in the neighborhood
(03:05):
you're in, right, that was,that's what it was.
And uh, now I was going to ahigh school where we had 30
different nationalities.
I'll live in nigeria.
Half of it was, you know, moreor less nigerians, um, and so
just got to see so much more ofthe world, not only nigeria, but
also just to my friends and soon, and so just a great time.
(03:28):
And you don't.
It's another one of thosethings you don't realize when
you're in the middle of it.
It's when you're looking backat a decade later, two decades
later, and you're like, oh, mygoodness, this is, this is
amazing.
So anyway, fast forward.
I went to Westmont College.
Yeah, you went through that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Hold on, you went through that too fast.
I want to understand andappreciate going from an
all-white community to the otherextreme of the world, not only
in a different part of like thedetergent commercial not just
white, but really white, Reallywhite.
Yeah, really white.
And it's not like going downthe street across the states or
(04:04):
or to another state man.
You went to all differentnation, country and and there
you are, as as as Jared Clowerwould say, flung right into the
midst of this multicultural,multiracial society.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
So I worked for you, so I loved it.
It was a great experience forme.
Now, definitely different.
So like when we would walk downthe street in Nigeria, go to
the market, you know, whateveryou would always get what I'll
call catcalls, but they werecalled bature.
Bature is white man, or it'sactually means peeled one like
an orange, like you peel theorange, and it's white on the
(04:42):
inside.
So I would yield one and uh,and you just got used to it,
like that was just what.
You know, you're, you're.
I was the only white facewalking down the street, and so
it didn't surprise me, did youget called out?
Um, but what was interesting is, after I'd been there for two
or three years, I stoppedhearing it.
So either they stopped sayingit or I just ignored it, like it
(05:05):
just never, never actually wentinto my eardrums anymore.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You got a tan man.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And the other thing too is I'm six foot two and so
there's no hiding.
Wow, there's no hiding.
There's no like.
You're just you're going tostand out, like that's all there
is to it.
But what always is interestingto me is everybody was so kind,
so friendly, so loving, soaccepting.
So there was never this like ohBature, now I'm going to.
(05:34):
You know, I guess I did hearanother Nigerian word is bulala,
which means beating.
And so there were occasionswhere I heard you know, you're
(06:12):
going to get a bulala, and likeI, I would just start running
Like I don't need, I don't knowwhat, I don't know why or what
I'm doing, but I gots to go now.
So I also learned, you know,just uh, there 1986.
And we went and we had a meal ina church member's home, and
those were the first times whereI really liked the food, the
smells, but also just thatrealization that the world is so
different from what I was usedto in Livermore, california,
right when people are cookingover wood, you know, there's no
stoves the dad eats first, theyoungest child was whatever's
(06:37):
left over, like, literally, thefood would go down from dad to
the oldest son and to the momand then the younger kids, and
so you start to see that, likethere's, the oldest son came
before mom, yeah, yeah, wow, wow.
So, uh, and that just that'sthe way it went.
So if there wasn't enough food,like the youngest just wouldn't
(06:59):
eat that day, right, or theywouldn't eat until later.
And, uh, I, people would bekind as far as like they try to
save some for everybody, but youknow, uh, that didn't always
work that way.
And uh, remember just sittingand being uncomfortable because
it's hot.
You know I'm sitting on thefloor, you know the, the food
(07:20):
and smells are not my favorite.
Now, I would, would like justlove to have food there because,
you know, I, you learn to lovethe cuisine, but, uh, but it's
in the midst of that beinguncomfortable that you get to be
transformed, that you get to,like you know, fall in love and
find out new things, and so Ithink that's a big piece of what
we all are doing.
Is you got to go through thiskind of uncomfortable place?
(07:42):
Yeah, and then, on the otherside of that uncomfortable place
, there tends to be actually acomfort, so that, if you ask me,
ellie, would you like to goback to miyango, nigeria, and
sit in.
You know this family's home.
Sit in sunday's home, would youdo?
Yes, please put me on a flightright now, like I would
absolutely love to do that, butit's because kind of went
(08:05):
through that uncomfortableseason of like this is new, this
smells different.
Why am I sitting on the floorRight?
Why am I eating with my hands?
You know all those types ofthings, and so, anyway, that's a
little bit about thatexperience.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, elliot, I say often that the current of
relationships flows all the time, flows towards the familiar.
And so in order to actuallyembark upon relationships that
are different, that are unique,that are not based on what we
know and talk like us, thinklike us, act like us, vote like
(08:43):
us, that's going to alwaysrequire effort because you're
going to have to swim againstthe current.
You're going to have to swimupstream.
The relationship currentsalways flow downstream and
they're easier and they're morecomfortable, and when you walk
in a room, you're looking forthe downstream, you're looking
for those that are familiar,look like you, think like you,
act like you.
Familiar, look like you, thinklike you, act like you.
(09:04):
And so there's always discomfortin relationships that are
introducing new cultures and newbeliefs and new ideas and new
backgrounds and experiences, andso that's a phenomenal
experience that you just sharewith us, and it sounds like that
experience shaped you a littlebit in terms of what you're
doing today.
(09:24):
So talk to us a little bitabout let's fast forward and
you're back in the States,you're moving back into the
States and pick up there andtell us a little bit about your
journey and how the Lord usedthat to shape what you're doing
today.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So I'll start with college andthen we'll, we'll, we'll, fast
forward way beyond that.
But it was interesting.
Coming back from Nigeria, myfreshman and sophomore year in
college were actually one of themore challenging year seasons
in my life Um, not the most, butit was a significant season
because, uh, I wasn't like thepeople around me anymore.
(09:58):
I had spent so much timethrough years informative years
living in Nigeria that, thoughon the outside, you know, I look
like I belong, I don't have anaccent, I sound like I belong,
you know I dress like I belongbut I never felt like I belonged
and I never had that place notnever, never.
(10:19):
But it was unusual for me tohave that place where I truly
felt like I connected, and so itwas an interesting season to
kind of find myself, to find mypeople, but also to kind of
restore who am I, who do I wantto be so kind of fast forwarding
from that and I say thatbecause I think it plays into
(10:40):
kind of what we're all doing toois that place where we sit.
Sometimes we sit in a placewhere we not only don't feel
comfortable, we don't feel likewe belong.
Ended up, I actually I had madea deal with God.
I said look, lord, I want tomajor in Bible, but I want to be
a dentist.
So you're going to get me intodental school and if not, I'll
(11:01):
go to seminary.
And never wise to make dealswith God.
I did not get into dentalschool.
I didn't like I'm was.
God must be right.
How do you make?
How do you?
How do you?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
make a deal with god.
How do you know that he agreedto the deal?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
right, I don't know.
Apparently he did not.
Then he did not agree to thenews at all, right.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Is that one of those?
I heard God say this because Iheard it in my own mind, Right.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, no, no, no, no.
There was no hearing, there wasonly telling.
I was just thinking, no, Idon't think it's going to happen
.
Oh God, this is what'shappening.
This is my deal with you.
So, anyway, ended up going backto school to get my master's in
business, because my religiousstudies degree was not getting
me anywhere.
So I got out of tech for a fewyears and in the midst of that,
(11:55):
god just put a discontent in mysoul and ended up becoming a
pastor in 2004.
And then in 2007, I actuallywent back to seminary or started
seminary.
So that deal that I made when Iwas 19,.
It took me about, you know, adecade or so, a little more 15
years, but, yeah, I pastored 17years and then, yeah, started
(12:16):
working at Live Faith, firstalmost two years ago.
Now, tell us a little bit aboutthat journey.
Yeah, so, something that wasstarted by a gentleman named
Vintage Foster, and so he's thefounder, now just chairman of
the board is a successfulbusiness person, marketing, and
(12:38):
right after George Floyd, hegathered about 100 people at a
church to pray.
He gathered about a hundredpeople at a church to pray and
out of that prayer meeting he'slooking around and he's like
there's a variety of ethnicitieshere, there's a variety of
religious backgrounds here,there's people that don't even
believe in God, but we're allcoming together because of this
(13:03):
tragedy that's taken place inour society.
And at that point he says youknow, we, we got to do something
like we, we, we, we have to putan organization together
because there is a togethernessin us that we want, and
unfortunately, we come around,often around tragedy, rather
than like kind of making this anormal part of our life, and so,
uh, so he actually started theorganization in 2020, and then,
(13:24):
of course, we're in the middleof COVID and all of that, and so
, uh, they brought me on, like Isaid, in 2022, about two years
ago to really help push these uminitiatives forward.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Um, and the.
The main goal of live faithfirst is, is, you know, building
unity in God's church.
Um, and we do that by buildingpastor cohorts so they can build
relationships, culture,ethnicity, experience.
Give me a feel, give us a feel,rather, of what a cohort
gathering would look like forLive Faith First pastor cohorts.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, and it interestingly it depends on the
region.
So I have one about an hoursouth of here and actually the
diversity is among denominations.
There's one African American,everybody else is white, but we
have a Lutheran, a Presbyterian,a Ko theology denominations,
and how do we kind of bring allof that together?
(14:38):
Here in San Jose there are moregathering.
It actually is ethnically.
There's a lot of diversity, aswell as the neighborhoods that
people sit in, and so for thoseit's more like okay, how do we,
(15:01):
how do we build relationshipsacross some, some of these
divides, but also, um, whatneighborhoods we want to really
dig into, serve in and startmaking a difference?
Um, and so that's the kind ofthat's the next big stage.
Our cohorts are relatively newand so our next big stage really
is okay, let's find communities, and so there's a few
(15:24):
communities here in San Josethat we're just beginning to dig
in.
For me, serving is not so muchhow I want it to be, more than
just putting a Band-Aid onsomething, wow, so an example,
and there's nothing wrong ifthis is what your church does.
So don't hear what I'm notsaying.
(15:45):
But we can have like foodprograms, right, where people
come, they pick up food.
That is awesome.
Like that needs to be done.
There's food scarcity and so weneed that.
But there's often root causesbehind that in communities that
are causing some of thosechallenges, whether it's an
economic issue, whether it's afamily issue, whether it's drugs
(16:05):
, whether it's gangs, whetheryou kind of fill in the blank
for what it could be.
And so what we want to do is weactually want to come into
communities, figure out whatsome of those key pain points
are and then bring nonprofits into help serve those particular
needs and so that we're actuallyaddressing the needs in the
community, so that what we say,that the poverty is being
(16:28):
alleviated.
So it's not just, hey, let'sget you food for the week.
Let's kind of step back behindthat and, yes, we may need to do
food for the week to get youthrough, but can we go behind
that and find what some of theroot causes are so we can start
to actually address those?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It's like a fire in the houseburn um fire in the house that
you keep running, running to putout, and and and eventually you
find, okay, we put the fire out, but there's like incredible
electrical damage in the wallsthat keeps sparking these fires.
So so we, we can put the fireout, but we got to eventually
figure out how to get inside thewalls and really do the
(17:07):
necessary work that we got to doin order to ensure that the
fires don't come back.
Right, Right.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, right Now, that's exactly it.
And in San Jose there's asignificant homeless population
in our county, like 35,000 to40,000 people.
But when you compare that tothe extremely low-income
communities in our neighborhoodor in our Santa Clara County,
(17:32):
there's actually 350,000 peoplewho are one or two paychecks
away from being homeless, whoare one or two paychecks or who
are making decisions on do wehave rice, do I get diapers, do
we buy baby formula, do we?
People are having to make thosechoices, and so for us, part of
it is if we can go on the otherside.
(17:53):
And then the homeless challengeis so it's in your face, right,
you see it on the streets, yousee it under the bridges, like
that, you see it by the creeks.
But when I drive by somebody'shome, I don't see that there's
poverty in the home.
I just see a home that maybelooks a little run down, but
otherwise you figure it's okay.
And so one of the areas we wantto go is to those extremely low
(18:15):
income communities to pull themback away from the cliff of
homelessness, right, and so thatwe can start to, like people
can have a little bit of goingto to, you know, survive and
thrive and so on, right, Right,right, nettie, I'm thinking this
.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
this very much aligns with some of the things that
we're doing at MissionMississippi.
He talked about the cohort.
We you know, elliot, we'relooking even at our first
inaugural cohort, so to speak.
We're called it the MississippiLeadership Initiative and it
extends past pastors.
We're just looking forreconcilers that have leadership
(18:56):
ability and leadershipreputation in their communities
but passionate about Christianreconciliation, to bring in and
to have dialogue, discussion,challenge and equip and then
send back out into their localcontext to influence and impact
the community in a real and deepway.
And so very much, you know, it'sinteresting to see God at work
(19:18):
both, both in your neck of thewoods, san Jose, california, and
and all the way down here inMississippi, and he's doing
similar things.
So that's really interesting.
I'm interested to, as we talkabout similarities, I'm
interested to compare notes tosee if you see challenges that
are similar.
Of course you talk about LilFaye first being birthed out of
(19:40):
this challenge, this kind ofcatalytic moment with the George
Floyd murder.
What challenges do you see inyour neck of the woods, in your
space, that Live Faith First?
We talked about some of thecommunity challenges economic
(20:01):
disparities but what challengesin reconciliation in particular?
Do you see in your communitythat Real Faith First is diving
first into trying to bring someresolution and some support to?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah, that's a great question and, like you say,
every community kind of bringstheir own kind of set of
challenges and of course, youknow, california is a very
interesting place for all kindsof reasons.
I will say that.
But you know, kind of one ofthem is we're very transient,
right, so we have a lot of justpeople who are not from
(20:33):
California initially Coming andgoing, coming and going, and
extremely diverse, so it's notjust African-American and white,
you know, african-american andeverything in between, right
Asian, hispanic, latino, all ofthat.
And so it's interesting thatsegregation that we see is
(21:03):
around neighborhoods, and sothere's neighborhoods that are
predominantly Hispanic orpredominantly Vietnamese or
predominantly Chinese orpredominantly Indian, and often
those communities don't overlapa lot.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Does that extend Elliot to business?
Does that extend to worship aswell, beyond just living space
living quarters?
Does that extend um Elliot tobusiness?
Does that extend to worship aswell, um, beyond just living
space living quarters, would yousay so for?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
church, absolutely.
Uh.
Now there are definitelychurches that you walk in and
you're like, oh, this looks likeour community, uh, but you can
also go into churches and it'slike, no, we're, we're, this is
the you know, and you fill inthe blank ethnicity, church, um,
and so, absolutely there.
And yeah, businesses, it's.
It is interesting Like we havean Asian market not too far from
(21:51):
you and you go in and it's it.
It always trips me out becausethe you know, the vast majority
of the customers there are Asian, but then like about a third
are Hispanic, because it's kindof in a Hispanic neighborhood,
and then like there's like 5%maybe white people.
I'm just kind of guessing onthose numbers, but it is kind of
interesting when you're like,you're looking around and you're
(22:11):
like, well, you know, I'm backin Nigeria again, I'm, I'm I'm
not the majority here at all,you know, but it's also a bit of
a mix.
So it's an interestingCalifornia's kind of a weird
beast.
But one of the things you saidon our podcast that I really
appreciated is we rub elbows butwe're not good friends, and
(22:33):
that really resonated with mebecause, yeah, absolutely In
your workplace, absolutely thegrocery store, the mall, you
know, anytime you go to concerts, whatever you go out, for the
most part, you know, anytime yougo to concerts, whatever you go
out, for the most part you knowit's very diverse.
But is that leading to closefriendships?
(22:53):
Uh, is that leading to closeconnection?
And I think that's the piece ofwhere we really wanted to
overcome that at live faith.
First is how are we givingopportunity for people to
overlap and build friendship,build relationship?
Um cause, it's one thing tolike put up with one another,
but it's another thing to lovesomebody, and that love is what
we're aiming for.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, you know Mississippi, the whole DNA and
everything is built around thisrelational relationship, prayer
kind of thing, and you know, Iwant to know what attracted you
and how you connected withMississippi and why you were
interested in what we're doingin Mississippi all the way from.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
California.
Hey, yeah, one.
I think it's because, I mean,there's a couple of things.
One you guys have been doingthis for so many years, this for
so many years, and so just thehistory, the experience, the
things that I'm able to gleanfrom what you guys have done,
(23:50):
it's an honor to get to learnlike, okay, people are doing
this.
It's also an honor to learnfrom people who are doing it and
, from my perspective, one ofthe more segregated, separated
communities in the nation.
Now again, this is California,looking at Mississippi.
But when I kind of picture thatthat's, that's kind of that's
kind of the picture I have in mymind, it actually I told my
(24:10):
brother-in-law, who lives inHouston, like it kind of freaks
me out to think about doing thisin the South, like I'm really
comfortable with it inCalifornia because I know this
place but the thoughts of doingthis, so you know, and because
you guys bring a whole differentyou know history and attitude
and background, community wise,and then, of course, y'all what
you have done.
(24:31):
So for me it's because, I'll behonest, I feel like you're way
more on the front lines of thisthan I am, in that you know, if
there's racism in Californiait's way more hidden.
I'll just say it that way,where I it my.
My opinion is that inMississippi it might be a little
(24:52):
more obvious obvious a littlemore out there, and so that's
why I've loved just to hear thethings you've done, but also
like, hey, these are peoplewho've been doing it on the
front line for decades and theythey definitely have something
to speak into how we do thisreally well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
So, yeah, I think I think historically, you know,
the racism, race, racialdivision, things of that nature
certainly is more overt in theSouth than it, than it would
have been considered inCalifornia.
Obviously, california had itsown share of stories as well,
but our history certainly is alot more vast and a lot more
deep as it relates to racialdivision.
But I do think that 2024, thata lot of the struggle as it
relates to segregation,separation, is definitely more
covert in Mississippi, just ascovert in many ways as you would
(25:45):
see in California, like youmentioned, that separation and
segregation and people probablyall saying to themselves we
don't hate each other, right, wejust we don't connect and we
don't have any any real desireor motivation to do so, even
though we've been called by Godand all you know, in all
situations that we read inscripture we hear this very loud
(26:09):
call from God that we should beunited.
We have kind of settled in ourpockets of differences, whether
it be ethnicity, politics, etcetera, and so I think that's
not just a California issue butthat's a Mississippi issue,
where and in fact I think is oneof the challenges you talk
about that may be unique, Ithink, one of the challenges.
That's unique for Mississippi isthat because we don't have the
(26:31):
historical piece anymore andwe've seen, or we've seen a lot
of progression historicallywhere we're not using separate
water fountains and and we dohave the freedom to exist in the
same space, have the freedom toexist in the same space, I
think it's easy forMississippians to say, man, look
(26:52):
at how far we've come, we don'thave any further to go.
It's like no, no, no, we stillgot plenty, plenty room to grow
and plenty room to travel, orplenty more road to travel on
this journey.
But it's easy for us to lookback at our past and say, man,
we've come so far.
I don't think we have much,much room to grow.
And so I think that might beone of the distinctions between
a California and a and a and aMississippi.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
No, absolutely, and I do think that, like you say,
here, you just kind of go yeah,we're together, nobody's
fighting, you know, nobody'sbeing lynched, there's nothing,
you know, overt going on.
By the way, there's no lynchesin Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
It's good, it's very good.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
But you know, I mean, around COVID we have a massive
Asian population and so Asianhate grew at the beginning of
COVID.
Oh yeah, and so it still exists.
And it's interesting when youhear it.
I mean, for me I'm shocked.
Like, really, we still thinkthis way, like, whether or not
(27:53):
the origin of this is the viruswas in China, which, right Like
it was, so let's go with that.
But like, really, the averageperson who's been living in San
Francisco or San Jose or Fremontfor their entire life, like
they were born, raised here,like it's their fault, like is
that what we're doing right now?
Come on y'all and so, um it, it, it's.
(28:16):
It's weird, and I think one ofthe things I think you touched
on this is there tends to be anapathy around this because we've
come far enough, or that ideathat, well, we've come far
enough, it's good, it's goodenough, right, like it's it's
enough, and to to realize itit's, it's not enough yet,
(28:37):
absolutely Still, it's still notenough.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It's certainly not where God wanted it to be.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Absolutely Right, absolutely.
There's so much, so much roomleft.
And I see this too in very,very much like a, like a muscle
that atrophies if you don't workit.
If we don't spend time engagedin these kinds of conversations
regularly, if we don't spendtime crossing crossing those
barriers regularly, building andcultivating healthy
(29:07):
relationships across thesedividing lines regularly or
regularly, then it starts toatrophy and we start to lose our
ability to do it well.
And we have a.
We have a tendency to have awartime mentality when it comes
to racial division, in the sensethat something happens, whether
it be COVID, and all of asudden this kind of real this,
(29:28):
this real kind of out of nowhereAsian distrust starts to crop
up and you're like wait a second, what's going on?
Or George Floyd or Ahmaud Arberyhappens and we say wait a
second, what's going on?
And then all of a sudden werally in and and we say, okay,
we're going to pray together,we're going to have some
discussions, we're going to praytogether, we're going to have
(29:58):
some discussions, we're going to, we're going to do some things,
we're going to host some events, and then that happens.
And then we, when we get backto quote, unquote peacetime, we
start to kind of dissipate againand go back to our corners and
say everything's OK and andstart dismissing the reality
that no, there's just some,they're just simmering under the
surface, is another opportunityfor an explosion if we don't do
this kind of work during theseasons of peace, and so we tend
to not have a very goodpreparation plan in peacetime,
and so that's why wartime for us, as it relates to racial
(30:19):
division, is always so explosive.
Is that?
Is that something thatresonates with you and you guys
over at Live Faith First?
Is that something thatresonates?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
with you and you guys over at Live Faith First, a
hundred percent.
I've said this multiple times.
Unfortunately, another GeorgeFloyd is coming.
It's going to happen and, as achurch, are we in a better place
now than we were in 2020.
Because I know as a pastor at achurch executive pastor at a
(30:49):
church I was dealing with theemotions of how could this
happen in our country, theemotions of there's riots
happening in my neighborhood,there's protests that as soon as
it gets dark, it turns to riotsand mattresses being set on
fire.
And the protest stream came.
(31:11):
Like I live on the corner of13th and Reed or Williams, and
they came down to Williams, onehouse off of mine, and sent them
down another way.
So I'm dealing with that.
And then you're also and justthe emotions of it dealing with
it in that like, wow, this ishappening around me.
Why are there's nothing buthelicopters and sirens and all
(31:33):
of the discombobulation in that.
And then how do you shepherd achurch through this?
You know, feeling absolutelylost.
For what's the right response?
Like, is this?
Like just, we need anotherbible study?
Yeah, let's just have acommunity group curriculum
around.
Uh, you know, ethnicreconciliation.
And then we've done our dutyright, we're good, let's let's
(31:55):
spend six weeks, right, let's doa six-week study and then, once
we do that, hey, we're good,we're good, we have a lot of
it'll be video driven too, we'llhave around it, and then we're
done and it's all within our ownchurch and with our own comfort
zone, right, all this stuff.
And so for me, it was like Iwant us to be better, so that
(32:17):
there's a group whether it'sfive churches or 50 churches
this shows up on the hall, onthe city hall, where there's
protests going on, and thisgroup of pastors is saying we
feel your pain, we love ally'all.
Can we pray for peace in themidst of this and actually be
the healing balm that the churchis designed to be for our
(32:41):
larger community?
And so I love this analogy thatyou use the wartime, peacetime
kind of analogy, because I feellike that's exactly it, and I
think that harkens back to theapathy that I mentioned a minute
ago, because now it's like,well, we're good and we're good,
and maybe I did enough work in2020 that our church will be
(33:01):
fine and it.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
You know, our definition of a peacetime is the
lack of conflict.
In actuality, it's just underthe surface, it's like a tip of
the iceberg, and you know, andso we, we, we think, until
George Floyd happens, everythingis OK.
But then, when it happened, allof this stuff bubbles up like a
(33:26):
volcano.
George Floyd happens,everything is okay, but then,
when it happened, all of thisstuff bubbles up like a volcano.
We're like where did that comefrom?
Well, it was there all the time, we just didn't recognize it.
So it's got to be all gone.
I was thinking a minute ago,when you were talking about
George peacetime, wartime asBrian described I was just
thinking about what happenedwith Peter in Galatians 2, when
(33:48):
Paul showed up for his re-upsand called Peter in the act of
walking away from the Gentiles,when he had been hanging out
with them and joined the pig man, and all of a sudden now can't
do that because his brothershowed up and he played the part
of the hypocrite, to the pointthat Paul had to call out
(34:10):
Barnabas as well.
And so it's interesting how thatmakeup of what we consider
peacetime and what we considerwartime because you know, we
think, well, nobody's hanginganybody, nobody's, you know,
wearing sheets, at least notobvious anyway and so everything
is copacetic.
(34:30):
In actuality it's not, and weall combine in the same spaces,
but we're separated within thespace we occupy.
It's always amazing to me.
I ship out to Mississippimeeting and they say, okay, come
in, and we're going to have tomove because all the white folks
sitting at the table, all theblack folks sitting at the table
, all the black folks sitting atthe table, they're having a
great time.
And then you look and see, andisn't this beautiful?
Aren't we united?
Look at how united we are.
(34:51):
We're all in this room together.
That's always interesting to mewhen we decide, not that the
circumstances of what'shappening in reality decide, but
we decide within our own mindwhat is okay, what is not okay
as it relates to the racerelationship.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Hey, elliot man, I know you'rea busy man, so let's turn the
corner here and wrap up byallowing you some time to talk
about what's encouraging you asyou think about.
We've talked about challengesthat we're facing both in
Mississippi and in California.
Talk a little bit about what'sencouraging you as you think
about what's happening inCalifornia the work of
reconciliation with Live FaithFirst.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, the big thing coming up for us.
We're an interestingorganization because, you know,
for one, we're very on theground with cohorts and serving
and so on.
But then anytime there's kindof larger, kind of cultural
polarization, we also want tohave a voice in that.
And so it's election season,right, it's 2024.
(35:57):
Presidential election is is afew months away, heating up here
, and so, starting in August,we're going to do a pretty
significant campaign which we'recalling LRK, which stands for
Love, respect and Kindness, andit's our opportunity to speak
into our nation really and sayno matter what you believe, no
(36:18):
matter what your political partyis, no matter what your
background is I mean all of thethings that we choose to divide
us we have to treat one anotherwith love, respect and kindness,
like that is the norm thatshould sit within our
polarization in our societyright now, and as a nation,
we've, like actuallypolarization wise returned back
(36:40):
to post-reconstruction erapolarization.
So right after civil war, whenthere was a ton of polarization,
that's like we're at the samelevel again now, and so it's
really exciting.
So Absolutely, hopefully, bythe time this comes out, go
check out our website,mustdobetterorg.
Mustdobetterorg.
We have a pledge there thatsays talking about hey, how do
(37:02):
we treat one another with love,respect and kindness, community?
To do that, we have a gratitudejournal.
So do 30 days around.
The truth is is we get so caughtup in some of these like
minutiae that the honest truthis it doesn't matter that much.
And so how do we buildgratitude into our lives so that
some of these things which wemight see on some of the news
(37:24):
networks they get ahold of usput that fear in us.
We need to be looking elsewhere.
So Gratitude Journal, we havecommunity group curriculum, like
video driven, and one is Biblebased and another is community
based.
So we're looking like, hey,churches invite people from your
community and it doesn't haveto say Jesus to actually have
(37:46):
Jesus in it.
So all of these concepts.
If you go to mustdobetterorgit's not a Christian website,
other than the underpinnings ofit are 100% Christian but you
won't see Bible verses, youwon't see the name of Jesus,
because we know that there'speople who they automatically
(38:07):
tune out as soon as it becomes areligious thing.
And so this is what's excitingme right now is what we're doing
with LRK.
Our hope is that this will be amovement through California,
but we hope it crosses thenation to some degree, crosses
(38:27):
the uh, the nation to somedegree, and just remind people
that there's another way totreat one another, that we don't
have to get caught up in thepolarization and that, uh, we
can, we can live LRK and thatlove, respect and kindness and,
um, maybe make a little bit of adifference in this election
season.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Amen, amen.
Our theme this year, elliot, isliving reconciled by loving all
our neighbors, and we thoughtabout that thing very much with
the election season in mind, andhow easy it is when these
political moments come to thesurface, how easy it is for us
(39:00):
to start otherizing people andto no longer see the people that
we meet along the way as theneighbors that Jesus has called
and commanded us to love welland to extend ourselves to and
towards.
And so it becomes very easy tolook at Elliot Sands and
whatever Republican, democrat orindependent label he wears and
(39:24):
to immediately, based on thatlabel, start otherizing you
rather than seeing you as aneighbor that God has called me
and commanded me of well.
And so I love, I love the LRK.
We'll be definitely praying andsupporting you guys in that
movement.
I'm going to spend some timejotting some notes down in the
gratitude journal myself toremind myself of all of the
(39:46):
wonderful things that God hasdone for us and how we should be
grateful for those things.
And you're right, elliot, man,gratitude does fuel so much calm
and so much peace and so muchwarm in the way that we engage
the world around us, and sothat's a wonderful initiative,
brother.
Thank you so much for sharingabout that For someone who needs
(40:06):
to get in contact with ElliotSands and Live Faith First.
How can they keep up with you?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah, so our organization's website is
livefaithfirstorg, so feel freeto go there If you actually want
to reach out to me.
There's a connect button thereand send me a note.
I'm also on Instagram.
It's probably where I am mostly, but you'll find all of
everything.
Live faith first is at livefaith first, so YouTube for our,
(40:33):
our, our, our shorts and, and,uh, our podcast and Instagram,
facebook all of that is at livefaith first, so that's where
you'll find us Fantastic,fantastic Brother.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Thank you so much for for joining us today.
We really really appreciate itFor our listeners who are
listening in.
You can always get in contactwith us at Living Reconciled.
Any podcast app that you useyou can connect with us there
and, please, we would love foryou to like, share and subscribe
to this podcast.
Also, feel free to visit us onmissionmississippiorg.
(41:05):
If there's any way we cansupport you as it relates to
coming to your church, yourschool, your business, for
training, for speakingengagements, for encouragement,
we would love to connect withyou.
We also have, on September the26th of this year September the
26th at the Brandon Civic Center, our annual Living Reconciled
celebration.
It is going to be a day filledwith all sorts of fun, filled
(41:28):
with all sorts of encouragementand growth and learning.
We have a conference in theafternoon.
We have a banquet event in theevening.
That's sure to be a beautifuland fun time and we would love
for you to take part in that.
So you can get more informationon that at our website,
missionmississippiorg.
It's been a fantastic podcastwith Elliot Sands and my good
(41:50):
friend Nettie Winters.
We're signing off here sayingGod bless, god bless, thanks for
joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(42:12):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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