We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
This episode we sit down for an INCREDIBLE conversation with Dr. Ronnie Kent and Dr. James Kent, Co-founders of Twelve:Thirty in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Together, they offer invaluable insights into their ministry and its profound impact on their community.
We delve into the intersection of personal well-being and communal reconciliation through the lens of Christian faith. We also discuss practical ways listeners can support their pastors and community leaders.
We can't wait for you to hear this one!
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
My name is Brian Crawford and Iserve as the host of this
(00:36):
podcast, and I am with my goodfriend.
It's a great honor to be withmy good friend, because it's
been a while since we had thegood doctor, austin Hoyle, on
this podcast.
Austin, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh, I'm good, I just happened to be back, man.
So yeah, I know just a lot'shappened.
You know we just had a lot ofissues we needed to deal with.
We moved, so moved from Jacksondown to Columbia, so started a
new church that I'm serving at,so I'm at a first UMC of
Columbia, so excited about thatchange, and my wife's on leave
(01:11):
now so she's just like full timehanging out with the kids,
watching them, raising them, andI get to just focus on work and
it's kind of nice.
It's kind of nice to have thatset up.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
We're so happy that number oneyou were able to make that
transition with your family andobviously we're happy to have
you back, man.
So welcome back, thank you.
I want to give a quick shoutout to some sponsors, folks like
Nissan, st Dominic's Hospital,atmos Energy Regions Foundation,
brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, ms
(01:49):
Doris Powell, mr Robert Warrenand Ms Ann Winters.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do is
because of what you do here atMission Mississippi and on
Living Reconciled is.
We're having an interview withtwo incredible, incredible,
amazing men Dr Roddy Kent and DrJames Kent.
(02:11):
Dr Roddy Kent and Dr James Kentare director and co-director of
1230, an organization thatthey're going to be able to tell
you a little bit about here injust a moment.
They are also residents ofHattiesburg, mississippi, and
(02:32):
they are affectionate, dedicatedlovers of our Lord and Savior,
jesus Christ, and so we couldn'tbe more excited to have these
two gentlemen on our podcasttoday.
Welcome, gentlemen.
How are you guys doing?
Been well, been well, excellent.
Thanks for having us, thanksfor having us Glad to have you
guys, and thank you guys fortaking our call.
We appreciate that, and we wantto start by just giving you the
floor to take a couple ofminutes and just tell us a
(02:53):
little bit about yourself, yourfamily and your stories of faith
.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, since I'm the old guy and I'm his dad, so I'll
go ahead and jump in hereRetired, reached.
Well.
My faith journey started ateight years of age in my kitchen
in Quentin, mississippi, whenmy mom said you know, I think
the reason you don't like goingto church anymore is because you
finally recognize that sin hasseparated you from God and all
(03:21):
those stories you heard aboutJesus and dying on the cross and
being raised from the dead.
You need to tell him that youbelieve that's true.
And he did it.
What was necessary for you tohelp be in his family?
And so in that kitchen I prayedand received Jesus.
So very meaningful event in mylife changed everything.
(03:42):
Of course, as an eight-year-oldI wasn't riding motorcycles and
doing some heavy drugs oranything like that, so it wasn't
very dramatic salvationexperience to anybody, I don't
think, but me.
But it was very dramatic for me.
So, and since that time I'vebeen, I've been raised and and
uh educated in mississippi.
Uh went to mississippi stateand got a degree in biological
(04:03):
engineering, then went tomedical school in Jackson, did
my pediatric residency inJackson and just recently, about
two years ago retired from 42years pediatric practice 41
years pediatric practice here inHattiesburg the last 25 years
dealing with helping folks withschool problems At a clinic we
(04:24):
started called Connections.
I've been blessed to be marriedto Ann Brooks Kent for a long
time 45 years, I think She'llget on to me if I don't do it
pretty close, and blessed withthree children, emily and James,
in the middle and Grace.
They are married to wonderfulpeople and have given me 10
(04:48):
wonderful grandchildren, sevenof which are boys, which
definitely keeps you kind ofhopping.
Fortunately, they all liveright around us and the oldest
one is 14.
The youngest two are six now.
Yeah, six now.
So they're all grouped togetherand very close, so we enjoy a
good life.
Six now, yeah, six now.
So they're all grouped togetherand very close.
And so we, we enjoy a good, agood life right now.
(05:09):
We're members of Temple BaptistChurch and been a member of
Temple since we moved here 41years ago, and so, um, and and
I'm going to let James kind oftalk more about himself and our,
the 1230 ministry that yeah,james, tell us a little bit
about yourself and the ministry1230.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yes, um, first of all , thanks again.
Uh, so my faith journey reallystarted.
I don't I don't have arecollection of a time without
Jesus.
Uh, I consider it a realblessing to have grown up in a
family with mom and dad andchurch and lots of people at
(05:52):
church who loved me and walkedwith me in faith, and I
genuinely, I really resonatewith something that Ruth Bell
Graham, I believe, said she'squoted as saying I don't know
when the light bulb came on, Ijust know it's on.
In a similar situation, growingup as a missionary, I think she
(06:13):
just didn't really understandlife apart from Jesus.
And obviously there was a pointwhere I had to realize that I
was in need of Jesus, not justthat I loved him and he loved me
.
Sure that I was in need ofJesus, not just that I loved him
and he loved me.
And sure that happened aroundsix, seven years old.
And I've been walking with himever since.
(06:33):
And you know, like dad said, mychildhood was really amazing,
didn't face a ton of hardship,but God did use struggles with
ADD and dyslexia for me reallycrucial in my struggle, and so
(06:54):
obviously we're probably allfamiliar with how God tends to
become realist when you reallyneed something to cling on to,
uh, when you really needsomething to cling onto.
So, uh, those few things reallyplayed a significant role in uh
me meeting Jesus, uh, growingcloser to him, uh.
(07:15):
And then I also went toMississippi state, uh, and from
there I waffled a little bit.
Dad had a clear understandingof what he wanted to do, so,
because I wasn't clear, I wentback to school and did a
master's in businessadministration at USM and, god
(07:36):
really, he ordained a path forme into psychology, because I
was in business and, throughsome significant events, found
myself in the field ofpsychology.
And so that led me to WheatonCollege in Wheaton, illinois,
outside of Chicago, and wasreally blessed to be able to go
(07:57):
there and wanted to be somewherethat focused on the integration
of psychology and Christianfaith.
And so Wheaton is that placeand is also accredited by the
American PsychologicalAssociation, which was also
important from there.
And well, I should back up.
I was married to my wife,jessica, before Wheaton.
(08:19):
We had our first child my firstyear there.
We actually had all of thembefore I graduated, which I'm
not sure I'd recommend that.
I've got four kids, and that'sjust.
It's a lot to take on adoctorate and four kids.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I was about to say you were in two types of school
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I mean my wife.
If I achieved a doctorate, sheprobably achieved three, because
it was amazing.
Just yeah, she's extraordinary.
She is extraordinary, so we'rereal thankful for her, amen.
So after that, basically made myway back home to be close to
the family and really really outof heart for the south.
(09:04):
To be honest, uh, one of themission statements, uh, or goals
of Wheaton College is tograduate people who will serve
the underserved, and our entirestate for the most part meets
that in one way or two or threethat they're underserved.
So this population of folks andtheir wellness and again, mind,
(09:31):
body, soul and strength isreally important to both dad and
myself and that really is whatbrings us into 1230.
And he was in practice for 41years and I was.
I worked in clinical practiceas a therapist for 10 or so
years.
He and a friend started aministry, a parent organization,
(09:55):
and he was over what was thencalled the faith.
Dad was over the faith andwellness division and he thought
it.
Both of them thought it mightbe helpful to bring someone like
me on board and obviously uhnever saw this happening five,
ten years ago.
Um, but with what I studied, uh, it was very much relevant, not
(10:18):
only to my heart and what Iwanted to do, but, uh, it seemed
like I could be helpful.
So then dad and I became thefaith and wellness division and
since then we've gone throughsome.
Well, we're really just tryingto.
We're getting our feet wet inthis.
We're a very new organization,so we've been through some
rebranding and now we callourselves 1230.
(10:40):
And that's after the greatcommandment, when Jesus was
asked what the greatestcommandment was and he responded
with love.
Guard god with all your heart,soul, mind and strength, and
love neighbor itself.
And that's mark 1230 and 31.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So, um, that's us in a nutshell dr, dr ronnie, talk,
talk to us a little bit aboutsome of the things you guys are
doing to highlight this neededand necessary work in 1230?
What kind of activities, whatkind of engagements, conferences
(11:13):
, meetings, actions that youguys are engaged in as it
relates to 1230?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So we have to start back.
We were like James was sayingwe were trying to decide I mean,
you know, we had a pretty goodidea what faith saying we were
trying to decide.
I mean, you know, we had apretty good idea what faith was.
But trying to help, trying todecide even ourselves on what
the definition of wellness is.
You know, I asked a whole lotof people and there were a lot
of you know definitions, most ofwhich used the word wellness in
it.
I told them that's not helpingme, you know so.
(11:41):
So we uh, we and shane are, butthe guy who started this with
me, good, super good friend ofmine, and Steve Castile, went
out to to Dallas to an AmericanAssociation Christian
Chancellor's conference abouttwo years ago and two of the
speakers there made madestatements that just blew us
(12:03):
away, and that is that 50percent of pastors do not last
10 years and that 90 percent ofpastors do not retire as a
pastor.
And I mean we just rocked usand you know, and tried to move
our ministry into wellness,faith and that that affects your
wellness in the church.
(12:24):
We thought, well, you know, ifthe pastors aren't, well, it's
going to be difficult for thechurch to move there, because
you know what the pulpit does alot of times is what is
supported through the church.
And so we started realizing howmuch or how great a need there
was.
And as we moved more into it,you know the need for pastoral
(12:44):
wellness.
And so that's where we'vereally been focused, a big part
of what we do, and we've beenfortunate enough to surround
ourselves with some retired orretiring pastors that we depend
on heavily to help us, to guideus into how to really make that
happen.
And also we've partnered withWilliam Carey University, their
(13:06):
Institute for Excellence, andthey've really taken this on as
a real ministry in that area.
And so we have a pastor summitthat's coming up September the
12th, that we're trying to getsome key of all denominations,
races, socioeconomic, they alltogether at William Carey on
(13:30):
August the 12th to try to getsome idea of are we doing the
right thing?
I mean, are we asking the rightquestions?
Or you know we don't want tocome up with a plan that's not
applicable, you know.
And so then that quote willcome from.
That is a pastor conference.
The first one's about 25 of theleaders, and then we're hoping
(13:52):
to have a pastor conference forabout 125 pastors or leaders
October the 10th and to try tomove forward in the
implementation of the plan thatliterally we are developing.
So that's one aspect.
We have another, a differentone, of really working with one
(14:16):
of our sponsors that's reallyhelped us a lot financially and
he's they Reef Holding that thathas a lot of holdings in a lot
of different states and it great, great Christian organization
that really is unique in thatthey want to try to infuse
Christianity or Christian valuesinto all of their holdings and
(14:40):
they have over 50,000 occupantsof all these holdings apartments
and vacation spots and 500employees.
And so we're working with themto try to do something that can
can meet the needs that they seewith all of their occupants.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, dr Kent, one of the things that that's
staggering to me, you mentionedthat statistic with the 50% of
pastors and then the 90% ofpastors not finishing in
ministry and then 50% notlasting 10 years.
Was that what I heard?
(15:19):
Yes, and it is staggering to mebecause, of course, that was a
couple of years ago and I don'tthink that number is going down.
I think maybe even you mightsee a slight bump in that if we
were to do a similar survey in24.
Trend as it relates to in 2021,in the spring or in the spring
(15:44):
of 2021, rather, 63 percent ofpastors said they've never
seriously considered leavingpastoral ministry.
Currently, today, that numberis 36 percent.
And so you?
So you went from two-thirdssaying they never could
seriously consider to onlyone-third saying they've never
(16:05):
seriously considered.
That's a radical dip in termsof just the current landscape
and the state of play as itrelates to pastoral labor,
pastoral ministry, and theweight and the demands and
obviously the need that there isfor a pursuit of wellness and
healthiness in that particulararea of ministry.
(16:30):
And so what you guys are doingis incredible work.
Let me ask you this Well, letme stop and pause, because
Austin may be chomping at thebits and he may have some
thoughts as well, so let me lethim jump in.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, I guess most of the questions I have have to go
around how you guys understandwell-being, holistic well-being,
because I love the idea ofbringing together pastors,
because we do kind of have thatunique perspective into how
humans operate.
Oftentimes you know where weknow how to navigate the ICU
(17:04):
just as well as we know how tonavigate funeral businesses,
just as we know how to navigatewell, just about any other
sector.
So I think it's reallyinteresting that you're bringing
together some pastors, and Ilike the Mark 1230 because
that's such a holistic view ofthat.
So how, how do you then see,kind of like our, our physical
bodies, our, our minds, our, our, our spirits, uh, kind of
(17:33):
melding into this like holisticvision, like what's some of the?
Uh, some of like the, the, theroot, um, the root premises that
you guys hold when you'reapproaching this understanding
of wellbeing with, like the, the, the full, full person
perspective?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So I'm going to jump in just for the medical cup and
then I'm going to let James dothe majority of that.
But you know, the health caresystem has really let us all
down and I was a part of that.
As far as wellness, you know,90 percent of the chronic
(18:10):
illnesses that are treated inthe United States today are
affected by lifestyle, and so wedo not.
When I went into practice justa real, real, specific
illustration of that is when Iwas trained in pediatrics by
pediatric residency I didn't getone single mention of type 2
(18:30):
diabetes in adolescents, I mean,or in children, because it was
non-existent.
And now 30% of the adolescentsin the United States are either
type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetic40% and so we are not doing a
good job.
As far as wellness, physically,and to separate heart physically
(18:51):
and to separate heart, soul,mind and strength into
compartments is impossible.
It's a continual and each oneaffects the other.
But I was talking to somebodyyesterday that well, the pastors
were invited to our conferencethat said that he was talking to
counseling somebody aboutdepression and he said, well,
(19:12):
how much sleep do you get?
And they said about four to sixhours a night and he said
you're not depressed, you'resleep deprived and the american
diet is super ultra processedfood.
That is not good for you.
I mean, I could spend the wholerest of the time just talking
about the, the, the healthaspect.
If you walk 7,000 steps a day,you decrease your chances of
(19:37):
mortality of any form ofmorbidity by 50%, and yet 92.3%
of Americans get no significantexercise every day 92.3%.
So you know, I know that's soquote unspiritual thinking about
the physical aspect.
But if Jesus didn't think itwas important, he would have
(20:00):
never added strength into how weare able to love God.
And so I think that we have andJames speaks to this much
better than I do how the churchused to be responsible for what
might be considered some care,the total person.
We've let go of that, so I'mgoing to be quite late him to
take care of the other threeaspects.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, so um, pastoral ministry, formerly, really
before the uh, enlightenment andand Industrial Revolution,
pastoral care was really yourone-stop shop when it came to
especially mental health and,for that matter, a lot of health
(20:44):
care.
I think it was John Wesley whopublished a book that he in the
book it was practical medicaladvice and he even talked about
epidemiology before we had thatterm and he would hand out these
pamphlets with remedies forcommon illnesses using household
(21:09):
items.
And then there's guys likeRichard Baxter, who was a
reformed theologian, you know,several hundred years ago he had
volumes and volumes of casestudies that he collected over
years and that was it was simplyhim trying to track how he
could best help people'sillnesses, and not necessarily
(21:44):
even, I'm sure, he mentionedspiritual components, but he was
trying to help them have betterphysical, biological,
relational health, and so thatthat's really inspiring to me as
I studied those things inschool, and just this idea that
especially when psychiatry camealong, unfortunately two things
happened.
It was really trying to get itsfoothold in science and at the
same time, I think, the churchwas struggling with all the need
(22:09):
, and so the church, I think, insome ways willingly let
psychiatry have some of thatarea and again, not blaming
anyone, but there was just sucha significant need.
So I really feel like, honestly, the church is still the best
solution we have in partnershipswith science and medical
(22:32):
professionals who love Jesus andare called according to His
purposes, and so that, to me, ismaybe an approach to wellness.
The definition outside of Mark12, 30, and 31, the way that I
was trained to look at it was tothink I use what is called a
(22:53):
self-care wheel, and it talksabout seven domains of
functioning and those are sleep,diet, exercise, spirituality,
social support, avoidingsubstances, and then how you
deal with relaxation or stressrelief, and, and so I find it's
(23:14):
a very basic tool because I havea little it's a little pie
chart and when I put it up youcan ask him, there's just this
overwhelming response and Ithink that I tend to assume that
people that that's common sense, but for some reason, seeing it
(23:34):
all together on this pie chartreally connects with people and
breaks it down in a simple way,because you can easily say, oh,
yeah, I, I don't sleep very welland it's a clear target area
that they you know in therapy.
Then I would say, okay, well,let's come up with a plan,
because obviously that'ssomething that you have some
control over, we can work on,and now we'll bring your whole
(23:58):
wheel into better balance, if wecan do that.
So spirituality is only onecomponent.
Obviously, we all would agreethat, because we all think in a
temporal way, we think in aneternal way that it's the most
important one.
However, we think that Jesusmoved people towards wellness.
(24:24):
He didn't just preach and teach, he also healed, and that was
just a very visible and materialway that he could demonstrate
that he came to help.
He came to help you physically,but that was a metaphor for how
he could help you spiritually.
And so, yeah, I don't want toramble, but that, hopefully that
(24:46):
answers the point here.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, it helps, and it was.
It was John Wesley's primitivephysic that he wrote and yeah,
yeah, so he Pretty much what hedid is he took All the best
medical Knowledge of the day,stole it, plagiarized it,
summarized it, put it Into abook that could be printed and
just given to everybody, becausehe, he realized, hey, people
(25:11):
just have this knowledge, evenif they don't have any other
training.
They just have the knowledgethat's in this book.
You have people within villagesthat have this knowledge.
People's lives just increaseacross the spectrum, so their
bodies will increase, theirminds will increase, their
spirituality will increase,their capacity to connect with
(25:33):
others will increase.
Their capacity to connect withothers will increase.
So that's and that was, you know, in large ways that was kind of
a movement, especially inEngland, that began to have, you
know, education and hospital,to kind of focus on the full
person.
I think it's interesting, likewhen did psychiatry as a field
(25:54):
uh rise?
Is that mostly kind of latenight?
Or yeah, late 19th century,early 20th, kind of, with uh,
jung and freud and what itbecame like a solidified,
standalone field?
Is that that more or less right?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
or I would say, standalone field would be more
in, uh, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s,um, okay so, but of course they
were doing things, having ideas, uh, before that in the 19th
century.
But yeah, you're, you're spoton.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
But the theories go ahead, go ahead, okay oh no.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So no, brian, continue.
No, I will say I'm fascinatedby, by the self-care wheel.
I mean, as soon as soon as youmentioned it, I went out quickly
and just Googled self-carewheel and it's fascinating to
think about the interwovenness.
But, like you said, as soon asyou see it it makes perfect
(26:49):
sense.
No-transcript.
(27:25):
And yet we tend to live inthese lives that detaches it all
one from another, and so Iappreciate the work that you
guys are doing.
You talked about aha moments.
I'm curious what other ahamoments do you have with laymen
and women and leaders whenyou're sitting down and you're
(27:46):
having these conversations?
You mentioned the self-carewheel.
Are there some other thingsthat really just blow people's
mind as to?
Why did I not think of thisbefore?
This is so obvious and yet I'venever put it together until
today?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I can speak to one that comes to mind.
We're actually we've beenworking on a book that should be
coming out in the spring calledAnxiety Algorithm, and in that
we use Philippians, and inparticular Philippians 4 and
whatever's true, right, noble,pure, lovely, admirable,
excellent, praiseworthy.
Think about these things, putthem into practice and that, of
(28:23):
course, ushers you into not justGod's peace but the God of
peace.
And so we attach that toevidence-based treatments in
psychology that can help you inthe moment with anxiety and
stress.
But rooted in scripture.
And during that class I thinkthis was a real aha moment Again
(28:45):
.
As clinicians, you're taught notto assume things.
It's very difficult sometimesto see your presuppositions, but
people tend to help you withthat.
They expose what you'reassuming if you let them.
And we had a young mom who oneday dad was just talking about
his own journey and how he wouldhave to go into his bathroom at
(29:06):
work and recite scripture andpray out loud and work on these
same things over and over, andshe didn't even raise her hand,
she just blurted it out.
You mean, it's not supposed towork the first time.
And we kind of took that andreally thought about it.
It was just such a genuinemoment, but when we explained it
(29:29):
?
No, this is, you know, one of myfavorite quotes is a quote by
Dallas Willard, and he said thatGod's grace is opposed to
earning but not effort.
And so this idea and it's amantra that we have, and that is
that practice makes progressbut Jesus makes perfect, and of
(29:50):
course, you see that referencesin Hebrews 12 as the author and
perfecter of faith, and so weget that a lot, because we find
that we have to focus on thearea of shame a lot, and, of
course, when you talk aboutshame, you're going to talk
about a performance-basedmentality.
(30:11):
Going to talk about aperformance-based mentality, and
we tend to be soperformance-oriented that
helping people understand thatthe area of effort that we most
want to encourage you to engagein for wellness is relationship
in Jesus.
It's all about the relationship.
(30:32):
Your effort goes there and thenhe will, in turn, help you
become all that he's called youto be.
And so really trying to breakdown that barrier in people's
mind between shame andperformance and Jesus is, I
think, a real aha moment.
For some reason, christians alot of times might be able to
(30:56):
define grace and mercy, but it'sdifferent than actually
operationalizing it in your life.
What does that look like?
And so, again, not that we aresmart or anything, it's just
that need has come up, and sowe've we've really tried to push
back on that idea and justexpose shame.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Well, I think that's so true.
I mean there's you know Jamesbrought this in as we were
teaching that class and it wasan aha moment for me personally,
as the human function curve.
That's something else you canlook up, brian, but the human
function curve is so importantfor people to appreciate that.
You know there's two.
I'm a big mindset person.
(31:40):
There's two mindsets a growthmindset and the stress can be
enhancing mindset that are sorooted in Scripture.
I mean they've been around for2000 years since Jesus.
He's a very growth mindset.
You know Paul said not that I'veactually become, but I press on
toward the high calling inChrist Jesus, and then that that
(32:02):
that means that a lot of peoplethink it's amazing.
I call it Old TestamentChristianity.
They think that you know Ibecome a Christian and then I'm
supposed to.
Just it's automatic.
I mean my Christianity is justautomatic, I don't really have
to do anything.
You know I've talked to so manypeople and you know, as you get
older, people think you getwiser.
(32:22):
What a foolish thing that is.
But anyway, with marriageproblems would come to my wife
and and I.
They'd sit down and say we'vegot, and I'd say, okay, I'm
gonna ask you what?
The first, first question.
I'd tell them my salvationstory and then I ask them
there's their how they came toknow jesus.
And about 25 of the time theydidn't have a relationship with
jesus.
And I told them, said it's realhard to have a Christian
(32:44):
marriage if you're not aChristian.
And so you know.
Fortunately, quite a few duringthat encounter came to know
Jesus personally and Ben, thatwill really affect your marriage
.
I mean, if they did have arelationship with Jesus, I would
say, okay, I just want you toanswer me one question.
The first question was just anumber.
Okay, how many times last weekdid you read your Bible?
(33:06):
And and they would try it.
Well, you know, I said no, no,no, I just want to know, and
it's almost a hundred percent ofthe time.
Guess what?
The number was zero, zero.
I would say you know where youwant to end up, but you don't
know how to get there and never,looking at the map, you're
going to wander around, you'regoing to find yourself in the
(33:27):
wilderness.
A lot of times You're going tobe frustrated.
Read the book and it's amazingto me how many problems, not
just carte blanche, but how manyproblems in the Christian life,
get a lot better if you readthe book.
And so helping people developthe basics of a walk with Jesus,
you know, by reading the bookand by talking to him, is
(33:52):
amazing.
And this human function curvehelps.
You see that stress is anecessary part of life.
Without stress you don't doanything.
I'm not stressed to provide formy family, I don't really want
to go out and work because weall settle to the lowest effort
that we can use most of the time, so that stress moves us up
into being able to function.
(34:13):
But then we get into that areawhere we perform the best.
The stress is causing us to format a level and then if you go
over what we call the hump, ifyou go over the hump and your
stress increases, yourperformance actually goes down
after that Mission retires.
At that point that's right.
And so you get to the placewhere you burn out and you quit.
(34:35):
Like we are dealing with thesepastors that we're trying to
help because their job, thestress in the job all of us
encounter stress.
But we have come to appreciatethe fact that pastors encounter
like you were kind of alludingto Austin a different kind of
stress, a different kind ofenvironment that Jesus doesn't
(34:56):
put a performance aspect of it,but everybody else in their
church does, and so trying tohelp them negotiate.
That, I think, is connected,that initial aha moment, but
it's so real.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, dr Kent.
Dr Kent, I'm fascinated by thisdialogue for a lot of different
reasons.
I mean even uh, you know I wasas you, as you were speaking
about this kind of connectionbetween, um, you know,
rehearsing the truths of Godover and over and over again,
and how that has a impact on ouremotional state and our
(35:35):
physical state.
You know one of the things thatI recall, um, just earlier this
year, preaching through minorprophets and talking about the
book of Habakkuk and Habakkuk,one of the things that the
prophet says in chapter three,verse two, he mentions this idea
that he, oh Lord, I have heardthe report of you and your work
(35:56):
and of course, habakkuk is inthe middle of this kind of
devastating situation.
He's looking around, wonderingwhere is God in the midst of all
this devastation, in the midstof all this destruction?
And he has this kind of reboundmoment in chapter three.
But it starts.
That rebound moment starts bysimply saying I have heard the
report of you and your work, andso it's a reflective
(36:18):
remembrance that leads to thatkind of Philippians four that
you mentioned.
James, where whatsoever is goodand righteous is of noble report
, and the peace of God chasesthat you know, as we settle in
on the goodness of God andremember his grace, remember his
(36:40):
mercy and begin to thank himfor it.
They remember his grace,remember his mercy and begin to
thank him for it.
(37:00):
You know because, interestingenough, you know one other a 35
percent reduction in depressivesymptoms.
Just one act of gratitude, andso and so, just what I find in
my own life is that when I drillinto and drill into the state
of my own soul oftentimes, and Ibegin to think about where it
(37:23):
is, depending on where mygratitude is, can often be a
really good indicator as towhere everything else is as it
relates to my depressive stateor my anxious state or my
worrying and all these differenttypes of things.
It ties back oftentimes to howwell am I remembering?
(37:45):
And so and so I just, I'm, likeI said, I am so fascinated and
so encouraged by what you guysare doing.
It's incredible work.
Let me, let me turn the turnthe question, or turn the
conversation in a different way,quickly, while we still have
you for a few minutes.
And actually this how do youbelieve your work is
intersecting with the work ofMission Mississippi?
(38:08):
Because we're aboutreconciliation and pursuing this
realized reconciliation that wealready have in Jesus, but
enjoying it in a real way in ourlocal churches and in our
communities.
How can the work that you guysare doing in our local churches
and in our communities, how canthe work that you guys are doing
, how can that aid us and helpus?
(38:28):
If we're laypersons or if we'releaders and pastors in our
local communities, how can thiswork help us in the work of
unity?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Okay, you know I always jump in first.
He finishes, he polishes mycrude comment.
You know I now use a termthat's not a real classy term.
But the weller you are, themore you meet other people's
needs, the more you're concernedabout your relationships with
(38:56):
other people.
That's why God said you know,love God with all your heart,
soul, mind and strength, andlove your neighbor as yourself,
which involves not only lovingGod but loving yourself and then
loving your neighbor.
And so as we help hopefully, youknow, I mean we have to deal
with it ourselves.
I mean we're not sitting uphere because we got it all right
(39:17):
.
So we have to be careful thatthe number one thing pride or
whatever gets in the way of ustrying to be used by God, the
number one thing old pride orwhatever gets in the way of us
trying to be used by God.
But the the more we're able torealize how much God loves us
and how much he wants us to bewell and, like James said,
become all that he's had in mindfor us to be, with confidence
and joy, then we want otherpeople to get that too.
(39:38):
We want other people to be likethat, and it doesn't matter if
you're a member of my church, ifyou're a member of my community
or it doesn't matter.
You, just as God flows throughyou, you know and produces that
fruit as you abide in him.
That's what Jesus said abideand you will produce fruit.
(39:59):
It's not like you might, butyou'll produce love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control, that fruit of hisspirit that comes out in you.
You just naturally want to goin and love other people, which
will move you into the greatcommission to go and make this
life.
So it's just such a simple planthat Jesus has just laid out
(40:24):
for us.
It really is.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah, I mean everything that Dad just said.
Part of it for me is justrecognizing again that there's a
higher calling, not necessarilythat we perform as Christians,
but there's a higher callingthat can be achieved through the
(40:56):
Holy Spirit.
The world is not capable ofreaching, isn't?
The world is not capable ofreaching?
And for our environments, and Imean, you know, I think we
could say across the world,these divisions that exist are
just opportunity, and I think inthat sense, it's an opportunity
(41:19):
for God to be glorified, for usto be set apart as brothers and
sisters in Christ and tocelebrate difference also, to
celebrate the unique thingsabout.
I mean, you know, it's like ifGod created all flowers the same
color, that would be fine, theywould still be beautiful, but I
(41:44):
tend to prefer all the colors.
I like the uniqueness of thedifference, and so I think it's
just to me a real opportunityfor the Holy Spirit to do
something very special thatcan't be achieved, achieved
without him, and it's beautiful.
And so I really I'm a bit of anidealist and so there's a deep
(42:09):
sense in me of just wanting tobe able to experience that
somewhat for the wow factor,just so that I can offer praise
and say that that's our god,that's how cool he is and that's
that's what he really wantsfrom us.
So how do you do that?
I think obviously it's a bigquestion, but I do think that
(42:32):
healthy people uh, tend topursue healthy things and so, as
far as what we do and how itintersects with what you all are
doing, it's both.
And you know, the healthierpeople can be, I think, the more
open they are to things likeforgiveness, which is super
(42:53):
healthy, and reconciliation,which is super healthy, and
turning the other cheek, becauseeverybody's been hurt and
everyone has a story.
So the greater God is to you,the less important those hurts
are or the injuries that youcarry, and the healthier you are
(43:13):
, I think, the more open you areto.
It's not about me, you know.
I tell people sometimes one ofthe hardest parts about things
like anxiety and depression isthey're very self-consuming and
from the outside perspective itmakes you look really selfish.
But it's mostly because you'rejust consumed in your own mind
(43:35):
with anxious thoughts and inyour body feelings, and so it's
not that you're selfish, it'sjust that if I have a gaping
wound, it's hard for me to reachout and offer help to the
person next to me.
So in that sense, the healthierwe can be, I think, the more
available we are to be helpfulfor others.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And I really like this, loved your answer to the
whole root of reconciliationthat the healthier we are, the
more we can be for others.
You know that's going withJesus' sentiment of saying look
at the plank in your own eyebefore you look at the speck in
others.
It's not that there's actuallya speck in another person's eye
(44:19):
and you're the only one walkingaround with a plank.
It's like no, we all haveplanks eye and you're the only
one walking around with a plank.
It's like no, we all haveplanks.
Just when we look at someoneelse, we get annoyed more about
their spec because we don't seetheir spec as a plank Then and
we just ignore our own massiveplank.
I also look at this and I'm a.
My PhD is in philosophy, so Ialways look at things from a
(44:41):
philosophical perspective andwhat you guys are pinpointing at
could also be seen as a massiveproblem that we have within our
culture.
I'm thinking particularly CSLewis's abolition of men, men
without chests, that wholeconcept which I'm sure you guys
are I'm guessing y'all arefairly well aware of.
Cs Lewis and that whole conceptwhich I'm sure, uh, you guys
(45:02):
are, are pro I'm I'm I'mguessing y'all are fairly well
aware of of CS Lewis and thatwhole concept and and what
abolition of man uh pinpoints isthat, um, you know the, the,
the root problem of modernity isthat we, the, they've
bifurcated all the, the, the,the, the physical, physical body
, the emotional, psychologicalwell-being, the spiritual
(45:26):
well-being you know our strength, all of these different things
that should be rolled up to makeus, uh, you know, holistically
uh, strong and and healthy.
We've, we've bifurcated thosethings put them in different.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Put them in.
Yeah, people are our regularlisteners out there, exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
They don't have conversations and converse with
one another.
So we've become individuals whoare incongruent with our
individual selves, not even withthe rest of society, but we're
incongruent with ourselves to adegree of society.
But we're incongruent withourselves to a degree, and what
I see, the major impact thaty'all can offer is because us
(46:10):
pastors are going to maybe lookat this and say, well, we have
cultural influences that arecausing us to be at odds with
ourselves in this regard.
We're at odds with our hopesbecause oftentimes we fill the
God-sized holes that we havewith things of this world and we
(46:30):
have a culture that praisesthat and that encourages that.
So us pastors can point thisout.
But the real benefit that, drsKent's I'm just going to add the
S for both Drs and Kents, theDrs Kent's that y'all can offer
is that that, that, that thatkind of that, that precision,
that that's uh scalpel, so tospeak, with uh, your, your
(46:54):
capacity to diagnose and yourcapacity to find solutions, um,
on a more scientific level, um,which I can tell you already
have the, the, the theologicaldepth, the philosophical depth
to under, uh, to understand, uh,the cultural problems that are,
that are breaching into this aswell, and just the solution,
(47:14):
you know, and your name Mark, 12, 30, 31 is leading with, the
solution to what our problem is,which is individual persons who
have become so divided withinourselves that we can't even you
know, we almost can't even haveconversation.
Like you know, like we have thatlack of confidence.
(47:34):
You know, when you talk tosomebody and you can tell that
they don't even believe thewords behind their own, that
their own voice is saying out,that's what I mean is somebody
who is at odds with themselves.
Is that they're not, they don'thave confidence in their own
words.
And we've produced well, we'veproduced communities full of
(47:57):
persons like that and I feellike your effort can help on a
spiritual and theological level,can help to correct that path.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, I'm reminded in such clear terms in this
conversation of a quote thatI've heard shared on many
occasions from many differentpeople, and that's you cannot
give what you do not have.
And there are oftentimes thatwe're trying to um, as leaders,
um, oftentimes trying to pourinto people, uh, when, when we
(48:32):
ourselves are empty and and, andit impacts.
It impacts everybody.
It impacts those that'sreceiving that pouring, but it
also impacts the one that'sdoing the pouring when they're
pouring from empty spaces andplaces, and so this has been
incredible.
Can I ask one more question ofyou, gentlemen, before we part
ways?
And that's this for the averagelay person that may be
(48:55):
listening to this and thinkingabout how they can come
alongside their pastors, theircommunity leaders and those that
have been entrusted to leadthem in some shape, form or
fashion.
What can they do?
What encouragement can theyoffer?
What aid, what support, whatwisdom?
(49:16):
If you have one thing to givethem, what would you give them
to help them in serving thosethat are leading them become
better versions of themselves?
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Well, I brought this up in my Bible Fellowship class
Sunday, and that is when you seea pastor in the hall, tell them
two things.
Tell them one thing and askthem one thing.
That is, I'm praying for youand what can I do to help.
You know, oftentimes we go topastors to get something and so
(49:49):
you know if, if, if you can go,come alongside your pastor and I
said that, don't be shocked,they may ask, actually ask you
to do something.
So you know, you know don't,but but come alongside them and
what can I do to help you doyour work?
Our deacon body.
Last time I was chairman, Iassigned deacons to each staff
(50:11):
person and fortunately that'skind of continued in our church,
so that a group of deaconssurrounded each pastor and
helped them with whatever theyWell, at a party for a minute
there At a little balloon.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
See, austin's really excited about what Dr Kent said.
I love it.
He just liked it.
And a bunch of balloons justflashed off.
Those of y'all who arelistening, we're having a party
now.
A bunch of blogey blows justflew across Austin Springs.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
That's how we're sorry, how we're sorry of an
inward reality.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
But to land that plane just to try to get us to
come alongside our pastors.
I consider them the elders ofour church and the leaders of
our church and we're supposed tocome alongside them and help
them do the ministry of the word.
You know, let them minister theword and prayer and then let us
do the service, the acts ofservice within the church, and
(51:14):
so just come alongside them andsay, what can I do to help you?
Yeah, I would add to that.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
We had a conversation with one of the pastors where
we were in church and a greatguy and and really sharp, and,
uh, we're very close to him, andso he he shared with us that,
um, you know, I don't rememberif he put a number, but I'd say
probably eight out of ten peoplewho come in his office are
adding something to his plateand only about two out of 10 are
(51:45):
actually removing something.
And so I would tell people torecognize that pastors are first
and foremost human, that theyhave bills and marital struggles
and sometimes they don't knowwhat to do about their children,
who are going through somethingdifficult.
(52:05):
They have health problems, justlike everyone.
So just to not treat them asthough they are held to some
standard, that you personallyare not held to, that they're
human and that if you could beone of those people who at least
(52:27):
offers to remove something fromtheir plate, that's what a
partnership I think really lookslike for them.
And then, lastly, I talk aboutthe bystander effect.
You guys might be familiar withit, but it's a principle in
psychology that if you're in acrowd of people and someone goes
down and is hurt, an individualis less likely to step forward
(52:51):
to help if you're in a crowd,and so be the one that steps up,
that doesn't wait for someoneelse to step up and and feel the
need that you see you be thefirst one to do it.
Um, because that is somethingthat apparently we just are
naturally used to doing, I'mgoing to let someone else.
(53:13):
Surely someone else is morequalified.
I've never taught him classbefore.
I don't uh, I don't know if Icould drive the church fan.
It's really big.
Whatever your fear may be, bethe one who steps up.
I promise you they're.
They're not going to put you ina position where you can't
handle it.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So that's what I would say, gentlemen, it's it's
been an incredible privilege andjoy and pleasure to have this
conversation with you guys.
To have this conversation withyou guys.
How can our listeners keep upwith you?
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Give us some, some social media, some, some ways
that they can keep up withwhat's going on at 1230.
It's a great question that.
So right now we're in themiddle of, of getting our
website up and running, but itshould be very shortly and
that'll be 1230.org, I believe,and other than that, that's
about it.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
We're still working on it.
We are so in front of what'shappening, what the Lord is
doing with you guys.
We are not only cutting it, weare going to be leading it.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
We really lost.
June 1st was our big loss.
So we are we're just a fewweeks into it, but god's doing
some amazing things.
Yeah, um and uh, but yeah,we're just super grateful for
you all having saying I'll justtell you this.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
We will be calling on both of y'all in the future,
okay, well, this is don't thinkthis is a one-hit wonder.
We're coming back to you, boy.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Absolutely Anything y'all need.
Man, we're there to help youguys out in any capacity.
Love what you guys are doing.
I see the need in it and I'msupportive all the way.
Just let me know how I can help.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Absolutely Glad to return the favor.
Brothers, it's been a pleasureand a joy.
For those of y'all who arelistening or watching, please
know that you can alwayssubscribe to this podcast.
It's easy.
Just go out to LivingReconciled on any podcast app,
whether it's Apple, whether it'sAmazon, whatever podcast
application that you use searchon Living Reconciled and we're
typically the first one that youfind Living Reconciled by
(55:21):
Mission Mississippi.
Please go out, subscribe, like,share with friends, family,
church members.
We would very much appreciateit and share your feedback with
us.
We would love to hear how wecan continue to grow and improve
this podcast and how we canserve you and serve our
community and our local churchesbetter with this podcast.
So please feel free to shareyour feedback Again, it's been a
(55:49):
pleasure to spend time with theKent men, james and Rodney Kent
, and, on behalf of Dr AustinHoyle, I am Brian Crawford, and
we are signing off all sayingGod bless, god bless.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(56:13):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
My name is Brian Crawford and Iserve as the host of this
(00:36):
podcast, and I am with my goodfriend.
It's a great honor to be withmy good friend, because it's
been a while since we had thegood doctor, austin Hoyle, on
this podcast.
Austin, how are you doing, man?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh, I'm good, I just happened to be back, man.
So yeah, I know just a lot'shappened.
You know we just had a lot ofissues we needed to deal with.
We moved, so moved from Jacksondown to Columbia, so started a
new church that I'm serving at,so I'm at a first UMC of
Columbia, so excited about thatchange, and my wife's on leave
(01:11):
now so she's just like full timehanging out with the kids,
watching them, raising them, andI get to just focus on work and
it's kind of nice.
It's kind of nice to have thatset up.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
We're so happy that number oneyou were able to make that
transition with your family andobviously we're happy to have
you back, man.
So welcome back, thank you.
I want to give a quick shoutout to some sponsors, folks like
Nissan, st Dominic's Hospital,atmos Energy Regions Foundation,
brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, ms
(01:49):
Doris Powell, mr Robert Warrenand Ms Ann Winters.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do is
because of what you do here atMission Mississippi and on
Living Reconciled is.
We're having an interview withtwo incredible, incredible,
amazing men Dr Roddy Kent and DrJames Kent.
(02:11):
Dr Roddy Kent and Dr James Kentare director and co-director of
1230, an organization thatthey're going to be able to tell
you a little bit about here injust a moment.
They are also residents ofHattiesburg, mississippi, and
(02:32):
they are affectionate, dedicatedlovers of our Lord and Savior,
jesus Christ, and so we couldn'tbe more excited to have these
two gentlemen on our podcasttoday.
Welcome, gentlemen.
How are you guys doing?
Been well, been well, excellent.
Thanks for having us, thanksfor having us Glad to have you
guys, and thank you guys fortaking our call.
We appreciate that, and we wantto start by just giving you the
floor to take a couple ofminutes and just tell us a
(02:53):
little bit about yourself, yourfamily and your stories of faith
.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, since I'm the old guy and I'm his dad, so I'll
go ahead and jump in hereRetired, reached.
Well.
My faith journey started ateight years of age in my kitchen
in Quentin, mississippi, whenmy mom said you know, I think
the reason you don't like goingto church anymore is because you
finally recognize that sin hasseparated you from God and all
(03:21):
those stories you heard aboutJesus and dying on the cross and
being raised from the dead.
You need to tell him that youbelieve that's true.
And he did it.
What was necessary for you tohelp be in his family?
And so in that kitchen I prayedand received Jesus.
So very meaningful event in mylife changed everything.
(03:42):
Of course, as an eight-year-oldI wasn't riding motorcycles and
doing some heavy drugs oranything like that, so it wasn't
very dramatic salvationexperience to anybody, I don't
think, but me.
But it was very dramatic for me.
So, and since that time I'vebeen, I've been raised and and
uh educated in mississippi.
Uh went to mississippi stateand got a degree in biological
(04:03):
engineering, then went tomedical school in Jackson, did
my pediatric residency inJackson and just recently, about
two years ago retired from 42years pediatric practice 41
years pediatric practice here inHattiesburg the last 25 years
dealing with helping folks withschool problems At a clinic we
(04:24):
started called Connections.
I've been blessed to be marriedto Ann Brooks Kent for a long
time 45 years, I think She'llget on to me if I don't do it
pretty close, and blessed withthree children, emily and James,
in the middle and Grace.
They are married to wonderfulpeople and have given me 10
(04:48):
wonderful grandchildren, sevenof which are boys, which
definitely keeps you kind ofhopping.
Fortunately, they all liveright around us and the oldest
one is 14.
The youngest two are six now.
Yeah, six now.
So they're all grouped togetherand very close, so we enjoy a
good life.
Six now, yeah, six now.
So they're all grouped togetherand very close.
And so we, we enjoy a good, agood life right now.
(05:09):
We're members of Temple BaptistChurch and been a member of
Temple since we moved here 41years ago, and so, um, and and
I'm going to let James kind oftalk more about himself and our,
the 1230 ministry that yeah,james, tell us a little bit
about yourself and the ministry1230.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yes, um, first of all , thanks again.
Uh, so my faith journey reallystarted.
I don't I don't have arecollection of a time without
Jesus.
Uh, I consider it a realblessing to have grown up in a
family with mom and dad andchurch and lots of people at
(05:52):
church who loved me and walkedwith me in faith, and I
genuinely, I really resonatewith something that Ruth Bell
Graham, I believe, said she'squoted as saying I don't know
when the light bulb came on, Ijust know it's on.
In a similar situation, growingup as a missionary, I think she
(06:13):
just didn't really understandlife apart from Jesus.
And obviously there was a pointwhere I had to realize that I
was in need of Jesus, not justthat I loved him and he loved me
.
Sure that I was in need ofJesus, not just that I loved him
and he loved me.
And sure that happened aroundsix, seven years old.
And I've been walking with himever since.
(06:33):
And you know, like dad said, mychildhood was really amazing,
didn't face a ton of hardship,but God did use struggles with
ADD and dyslexia for me reallycrucial in my struggle, and so
(06:54):
obviously we're probably allfamiliar with how God tends to
become realist when you reallyneed something to cling on to,
uh, when you really needsomething to cling onto.
So, uh, those few things reallyplayed a significant role in uh
me meeting Jesus, uh, growingcloser to him, uh.
(07:15):
And then I also went toMississippi state, uh, and from
there I waffled a little bit.
Dad had a clear understandingof what he wanted to do, so,
because I wasn't clear, I wentback to school and did a
master's in businessadministration at USM and, god
(07:36):
really, he ordained a path forme into psychology, because I
was in business and, throughsome significant events, found
myself in the field ofpsychology.
And so that led me to WheatonCollege in Wheaton, illinois,
outside of Chicago, and wasreally blessed to be able to go
(07:57):
there and wanted to be somewherethat focused on the integration
of psychology and Christianfaith.
And so Wheaton is that placeand is also accredited by the
American PsychologicalAssociation, which was also
important from there.
And well, I should back up.
I was married to my wife,jessica, before Wheaton.
(08:19):
We had our first child my firstyear there.
We actually had all of thembefore I graduated, which I'm
not sure I'd recommend that.
I've got four kids, and that'sjust.
It's a lot to take on adoctorate and four kids.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I was about to say you were in two types of school
Right, right.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I mean my wife.
If I achieved a doctorate, sheprobably achieved three, because
it was amazing.
Just yeah, she's extraordinary.
She is extraordinary, so we'rereal thankful for her, amen.
So after that, basically made myway back home to be close to
the family and really really outof heart for the south.
(09:04):
To be honest, uh, one of themission statements, uh, or goals
of Wheaton College is tograduate people who will serve
the underserved, and our entirestate for the most part meets
that in one way or two or threethat they're underserved.
So this population of folks andtheir wellness and again, mind,
(09:31):
body, soul and strength isreally important to both dad and
myself and that really is whatbrings us into 1230.
And he was in practice for 41years and I was.
I worked in clinical practiceas a therapist for 10 or so
years.
He and a friend started aministry, a parent organization,
(09:55):
and he was over what was thencalled the faith.
Dad was over the faith andwellness division and he thought
it.
Both of them thought it mightbe helpful to bring someone like
me on board and obviously uhnever saw this happening five,
ten years ago.
Um, but with what I studied, uh, it was very much relevant, not
(10:18):
only to my heart and what Iwanted to do, but, uh, it seemed
like I could be helpful.
So then dad and I became thefaith and wellness division and
since then we've gone throughsome.
Well, we're really just tryingto.
We're getting our feet wet inthis.
We're a very new organization,so we've been through some
rebranding and now we callourselves 1230.
(10:40):
And that's after the greatcommandment, when Jesus was
asked what the greatestcommandment was and he responded
with love.
Guard god with all your heart,soul, mind and strength, and
love neighbor itself.
And that's mark 1230 and 31.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So, um, that's us in a nutshell dr, dr ronnie, talk,
talk to us a little bit aboutsome of the things you guys are
doing to highlight this neededand necessary work in 1230?
What kind of activities, whatkind of engagements, conferences
(11:13):
, meetings, actions that youguys are engaged in as it
relates to 1230?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
So we have to start back.
We were like James was sayingwe were trying to decide I mean,
you know, we had a pretty goodidea what faith saying we were
trying to decide.
I mean, you know, we had apretty good idea what faith was.
But trying to help, trying todecide even ourselves on what
the definition of wellness is.
You know, I asked a whole lotof people and there were a lot
of you know definitions, most ofwhich used the word wellness in
it.
I told them that's not helpingme, you know so.
(11:41):
So we uh, we and shane are, butthe guy who started this with
me, good, super good friend ofmine, and Steve Castile, went
out to to Dallas to an AmericanAssociation Christian
Chancellor's conference abouttwo years ago and two of the
speakers there made madestatements that just blew us
(12:03):
away, and that is that 50percent of pastors do not last
10 years and that 90 percent ofpastors do not retire as a
pastor.
And I mean we just rocked usand you know, and tried to move
our ministry into wellness,faith and that that affects your
wellness in the church.
(12:24):
We thought, well, you know, ifthe pastors aren't, well, it's
going to be difficult for thechurch to move there, because
you know what the pulpit does alot of times is what is
supported through the church.
And so we started realizing howmuch or how great a need there
was.
And as we moved more into it,you know the need for pastoral
(12:44):
wellness.
And so that's where we'vereally been focused, a big part
of what we do, and we've beenfortunate enough to surround
ourselves with some retired orretiring pastors that we depend
on heavily to help us, to guideus into how to really make that
happen.
And also we've partnered withWilliam Carey University, their
(13:06):
Institute for Excellence, andthey've really taken this on as
a real ministry in that area.
And so we have a pastor summitthat's coming up September the
12th, that we're trying to getsome key of all denominations,
races, socioeconomic, they alltogether at William Carey on
(13:30):
August the 12th to try to getsome idea of are we doing the
right thing?
I mean, are we asking the rightquestions?
Or you know we don't want tocome up with a plan that's not
applicable, you know.
And so then that quote willcome from.
That is a pastor conference.
The first one's about 25 of theleaders, and then we're hoping
(13:52):
to have a pastor conference forabout 125 pastors or leaders
October the 10th and to try tomove forward in the
implementation of the plan thatliterally we are developing.
So that's one aspect.
We have another, a differentone, of really working with one
(14:16):
of our sponsors that's reallyhelped us a lot financially and
he's they Reef Holding that thathas a lot of holdings in a lot
of different states and it great, great Christian organization
that really is unique in thatthey want to try to infuse
Christianity or Christian valuesinto all of their holdings and
(14:40):
they have over 50,000 occupantsof all these holdings apartments
and vacation spots and 500employees.
And so we're working with themto try to do something that can
can meet the needs that they seewith all of their occupants.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, dr Kent, one of the things that that's
staggering to me, you mentionedthat statistic with the 50% of
pastors and then the 90% ofpastors not finishing in
ministry and then 50% notlasting 10 years.
Was that what I heard?
(15:19):
Yes, and it is staggering to mebecause, of course, that was a
couple of years ago and I don'tthink that number is going down.
I think maybe even you mightsee a slight bump in that if we
were to do a similar survey in24.
Trend as it relates to in 2021,in the spring or in the spring
(15:44):
of 2021, rather, 63 percent ofpastors said they've never
seriously considered leavingpastoral ministry.
Currently, today, that numberis 36 percent.
And so you?
So you went from two-thirdssaying they never could
seriously consider to onlyone-third saying they've never
(16:05):
seriously considered.
That's a radical dip in termsof just the current landscape
and the state of play as itrelates to pastoral labor,
pastoral ministry, and theweight and the demands and
obviously the need that there isfor a pursuit of wellness and
healthiness in that particulararea of ministry.
(16:30):
And so what you guys are doingis incredible work.
Let me ask you this Well, letme stop and pause, because
Austin may be chomping at thebits and he may have some
thoughts as well, so let me lethim jump in.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, I guess most of the questions I have have to go
around how you guys understandwell-being, holistic well-being,
because I love the idea ofbringing together pastors,
because we do kind of have thatunique perspective into how
humans operate.
Oftentimes you know where weknow how to navigate the ICU
(17:04):
just as well as we know how tonavigate funeral businesses,
just as we know how to navigatewell, just about any other
sector.
So I think it's reallyinteresting that you're bringing
together some pastors, and Ilike the Mark 1230 because
that's such a holistic view ofthat.
So how, how do you then see,kind of like our, our physical
bodies, our, our minds, our, our, our spirits, uh, kind of
(17:33):
melding into this like holisticvision, like what's some of the?
Uh, some of like the, the, theroot, um, the root premises that
you guys hold when you'reapproaching this understanding
of wellbeing with, like the, the, the full, full person
perspective?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So I'm going to jump in just for the medical cup and
then I'm going to let James dothe majority of that.
But you know, the health caresystem has really let us all
down and I was a part of that.
As far as wellness, you know,90 percent of the chronic
(18:10):
illnesses that are treated inthe United States today are
affected by lifestyle, and so wedo not.
When I went into practice justa real, real, specific
illustration of that is when Iwas trained in pediatrics by
pediatric residency I didn't getone single mention of type 2
(18:30):
diabetes in adolescents, I mean,or in children, because it was
non-existent.
And now 30% of the adolescentsin the United States are either
type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetic40% and so we are not doing a
good job.
As far as wellness, physically,and to separate heart physically
(18:51):
and to separate heart, soul,mind and strength into
compartments is impossible.
It's a continual and each oneaffects the other.
But I was talking to somebodyyesterday that well, the pastors
were invited to our conferencethat said that he was talking to
counseling somebody aboutdepression and he said, well,
(19:12):
how much sleep do you get?
And they said about four to sixhours a night and he said
you're not depressed, you'resleep deprived and the american
diet is super ultra processedfood.
That is not good for you.
I mean, I could spend the wholerest of the time just talking
about the, the, the healthaspect.
If you walk 7,000 steps a day,you decrease your chances of
(19:37):
mortality of any form ofmorbidity by 50%, and yet 92.3%
of Americans get no significantexercise every day 92.3%.
So you know, I know that's soquote unspiritual thinking about
the physical aspect.
But if Jesus didn't think itwas important, he would have
(20:00):
never added strength into how weare able to love God.
And so I think that we have andJames speaks to this much
better than I do how the churchused to be responsible for what
might be considered some care,the total person.
We've let go of that, so I'mgoing to be quite late him to
take care of the other threeaspects.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, so um, pastoral ministry, formerly, really
before the uh, enlightenment andand Industrial Revolution,
pastoral care was really yourone-stop shop when it came to
especially mental health and,for that matter, a lot of health
(20:44):
care.
I think it was John Wesley whopublished a book that he in the
book it was practical medicaladvice and he even talked about
epidemiology before we had thatterm and he would hand out these
pamphlets with remedies forcommon illnesses using household
(21:09):
items.
And then there's guys likeRichard Baxter, who was a
reformed theologian, you know,several hundred years ago he had
volumes and volumes of casestudies that he collected over
years and that was it was simplyhim trying to track how he
could best help people'sillnesses, and not necessarily
(21:44):
even, I'm sure, he mentionedspiritual components, but he was
trying to help them have betterphysical, biological,
relational health, and so thatthat's really inspiring to me as
I studied those things inschool, and just this idea that
especially when psychiatry camealong, unfortunately two things
happened.
It was really trying to get itsfoothold in science and at the
same time, I think, the churchwas struggling with all the need
(22:09):
, and so the church, I think, insome ways willingly let
psychiatry have some of thatarea and again, not blaming
anyone, but there was just sucha significant need.
So I really feel like, honestly, the church is still the best
solution we have in partnershipswith science and medical
(22:32):
professionals who love Jesus andare called according to His
purposes, and so that, to me, ismaybe an approach to wellness.
The definition outside of Mark12, 30, and 31, the way that I
was trained to look at it was tothink I use what is called a
(22:53):
self-care wheel, and it talksabout seven domains of
functioning and those are sleep,diet, exercise, spirituality,
social support, avoidingsubstances, and then how you
deal with relaxation or stressrelief, and, and so I find it's
(23:14):
a very basic tool because I havea little it's a little pie
chart and when I put it up youcan ask him, there's just this
overwhelming response and Ithink that I tend to assume that
people that that's common sense, but for some reason, seeing it
(23:34):
all together on this pie chartreally connects with people and
breaks it down in a simple way,because you can easily say, oh,
yeah, I, I don't sleep very welland it's a clear target area
that they you know in therapy.
Then I would say, okay, well,let's come up with a plan,
because obviously that'ssomething that you have some
control over, we can work on,and now we'll bring your whole
(23:58):
wheel into better balance, if wecan do that.
So spirituality is only onecomponent.
Obviously, we all would agreethat, because we all think in a
temporal way, we think in aneternal way that it's the most
important one.
However, we think that Jesusmoved people towards wellness.
(24:24):
He didn't just preach and teach, he also healed, and that was
just a very visible and materialway that he could demonstrate
that he came to help.
He came to help you physically,but that was a metaphor for how
he could help you spiritually.
And so, yeah, I don't want toramble, but that, hopefully that
(24:46):
answers the point here.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, it helps, and it was.
It was John Wesley's primitivephysic that he wrote and yeah,
yeah, so he Pretty much what hedid is he took All the best
medical Knowledge of the day,stole it, plagiarized it,
summarized it, put it Into abook that could be printed and
just given to everybody, becausehe, he realized, hey, people
(25:11):
just have this knowledge, evenif they don't have any other
training.
They just have the knowledgethat's in this book.
You have people within villagesthat have this knowledge.
People's lives just increaseacross the spectrum, so their
bodies will increase, theirminds will increase, their
spirituality will increase,their capacity to connect with
(25:33):
others will increase.
Their capacity to connect withothers will increase.
So that's and that was, you know, in large ways that was kind of
a movement, especially inEngland, that began to have, you
know, education and hospital,to kind of focus on the full
person.
I think it's interesting, likewhen did psychiatry as a field
(25:54):
uh rise?
Is that mostly kind of latenight?
Or yeah, late 19th century,early 20th, kind of, with uh,
jung and freud and what itbecame like a solidified,
standalone field?
Is that that more or less right?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
or I would say, standalone field would be more
in, uh, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s,um, okay so, but of course they
were doing things, having ideas, uh, before that in the 19th
century.
But yeah, you're, you're spoton.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
But the theories go ahead, go ahead, okay oh no.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So no, brian, continue.
No, I will say I'm fascinatedby, by the self-care wheel.
I mean, as soon as soon as youmentioned it, I went out quickly
and just Googled self-carewheel and it's fascinating to
think about the interwovenness.
But, like you said, as soon asyou see it it makes perfect
(26:49):
sense.
No-transcript.
(27:25):
And yet we tend to live inthese lives that detaches it all
one from another, and so Iappreciate the work that you
guys are doing.
You talked about aha moments.
I'm curious what other ahamoments do you have with laymen
and women and leaders whenyou're sitting down and you're
(27:46):
having these conversations?
You mentioned the self-carewheel.
Are there some other thingsthat really just blow people's
mind as to?
Why did I not think of thisbefore?
This is so obvious and yet I'venever put it together until
today?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I can speak to one that comes to mind.
We're actually we've beenworking on a book that should be
coming out in the spring calledAnxiety Algorithm, and in that
we use Philippians, and inparticular Philippians 4 and
whatever's true, right, noble,pure, lovely, admirable,
excellent, praiseworthy.
Think about these things, putthem into practice and that, of
(28:23):
course, ushers you into not justGod's peace but the God of
peace.
And so we attach that toevidence-based treatments in
psychology that can help you inthe moment with anxiety and
stress.
But rooted in scripture.
And during that class I thinkthis was a real aha moment Again
(28:45):
.
As clinicians, you're taught notto assume things.
It's very difficult sometimesto see your presuppositions, but
people tend to help you withthat.
They expose what you'reassuming if you let them.
And we had a young mom who oneday dad was just talking about
his own journey and how he wouldhave to go into his bathroom at
(29:06):
work and recite scripture andpray out loud and work on these
same things over and over, andshe didn't even raise her hand,
she just blurted it out.
You mean, it's not supposed towork the first time.
And we kind of took that andreally thought about it.
It was just such a genuinemoment, but when we explained it
(29:29):
?
No, this is, you know, one of myfavorite quotes is a quote by
Dallas Willard, and he said thatGod's grace is opposed to
earning but not effort.
And so this idea and it's amantra that we have, and that is
that practice makes progressbut Jesus makes perfect, and of
(29:50):
course, you see that referencesin Hebrews 12 as the author and
perfecter of faith, and so weget that a lot, because we find
that we have to focus on thearea of shame a lot, and, of
course, when you talk aboutshame, you're going to talk
about a performance-basedmentality.
(30:11):
Going to talk about aperformance-based mentality, and
we tend to be soperformance-oriented that
helping people understand thatthe area of effort that we most
want to encourage you to engagein for wellness is relationship
in Jesus.
It's all about the relationship.
(30:32):
Your effort goes there and thenhe will, in turn, help you
become all that he's called youto be.
And so really trying to breakdown that barrier in people's
mind between shame andperformance and Jesus is, I
think, a real aha moment.
For some reason, christians alot of times might be able to
(30:56):
define grace and mercy, but it'sdifferent than actually
operationalizing it in your life.
What does that look like?
And so, again, not that we aresmart or anything, it's just
that need has come up, and sowe've we've really tried to push
back on that idea and justexpose shame.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Well, I think that's so true.
I mean there's you know Jamesbrought this in as we were
teaching that class and it wasan aha moment for me personally,
as the human function curve.
That's something else you canlook up, brian, but the human
function curve is so importantfor people to appreciate that.
You know there's two.
I'm a big mindset person.
(31:40):
There's two mindsets a growthmindset and the stress can be
enhancing mindset that are sorooted in Scripture.
I mean they've been around for2000 years since Jesus.
He's a very growth mindset.
You know Paul said not that I'veactually become, but I press on
toward the high calling inChrist Jesus, and then that that
(32:02):
that means that a lot of peoplethink it's amazing.
I call it Old TestamentChristianity.
They think that you know Ibecome a Christian and then I'm
supposed to.
Just it's automatic.
I mean my Christianity is justautomatic, I don't really have
to do anything.
You know I've talked to so manypeople and you know, as you get
older, people think you getwiser.
(32:22):
What a foolish thing that is.
But anyway, with marriageproblems would come to my wife
and and I.
They'd sit down and say we'vegot, and I'd say, okay, I'm
gonna ask you what?
The first, first question.
I'd tell them my salvationstory and then I ask them
there's their how they came toknow jesus.
And about 25 of the time theydidn't have a relationship with
jesus.
And I told them, said it's realhard to have a Christian
(32:44):
marriage if you're not aChristian.
And so you know.
Fortunately, quite a few duringthat encounter came to know
Jesus personally and Ben, thatwill really affect your marriage
.
I mean, if they did have arelationship with Jesus, I would
say, okay, I just want you toanswer me one question.
The first question was just anumber.
Okay, how many times last weekdid you read your Bible?
(33:06):
And and they would try it.
Well, you know, I said no, no,no, I just want to know, and
it's almost a hundred percent ofthe time.
Guess what?
The number was zero, zero.
I would say you know where youwant to end up, but you don't
know how to get there and never,looking at the map, you're
going to wander around, you'regoing to find yourself in the
(33:27):
wilderness.
A lot of times You're going tobe frustrated.
Read the book and it's amazingto me how many problems, not
just carte blanche, but how manyproblems in the Christian life,
get a lot better if you readthe book.
And so helping people developthe basics of a walk with Jesus,
you know, by reading the bookand by talking to him, is
(33:52):
amazing.
And this human function curvehelps.
You see that stress is anecessary part of life.
Without stress you don't doanything.
I'm not stressed to provide formy family, I don't really want
to go out and work because weall settle to the lowest effort
that we can use most of the time, so that stress moves us up
into being able to function.
(34:13):
But then we get into that areawhere we perform the best.
The stress is causing us to format a level and then if you go
over what we call the hump, ifyou go over the hump and your
stress increases, yourperformance actually goes down
after that Mission retires.
At that point that's right.
And so you get to the placewhere you burn out and you quit.
(34:35):
Like we are dealing with thesepastors that we're trying to
help because their job, thestress in the job all of us
encounter stress.
But we have come to appreciatethe fact that pastors encounter
like you were kind of alludingto Austin a different kind of
stress, a different kind ofenvironment that Jesus doesn't
(34:56):
put a performance aspect of it,but everybody else in their
church does, and so trying tohelp them negotiate.
That, I think, is connected,that initial aha moment, but
it's so real.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, dr Kent.
Dr Kent, I'm fascinated by thisdialogue for a lot of different
reasons.
I mean even uh, you know I wasas you, as you were speaking
about this kind of connectionbetween, um, you know,
rehearsing the truths of Godover and over and over again,
and how that has a impact on ouremotional state and our
(35:35):
physical state.
You know one of the things thatI recall, um, just earlier this
year, preaching through minorprophets and talking about the
book of Habakkuk and Habakkuk,one of the things that the
prophet says in chapter three,verse two, he mentions this idea
that he, oh Lord, I have heardthe report of you and your work
(35:56):
and of course, habakkuk is inthe middle of this kind of
devastating situation.
He's looking around, wonderingwhere is God in the midst of all
this devastation, in the midstof all this destruction?
And he has this kind of reboundmoment in chapter three.
But it starts.
That rebound moment starts bysimply saying I have heard the
report of you and your work, andso it's a reflective
(36:18):
remembrance that leads to thatkind of Philippians four that
you mentioned.
James, where whatsoever is goodand righteous is of noble report
, and the peace of God chasesthat you know, as we settle in
on the goodness of God andremember his grace, remember his
(36:40):
mercy and begin to thank himfor it.
They remember his grace,remember his mercy and begin to
thank him for it.
(37:00):
You know because, interestingenough, you know one other a 35
percent reduction in depressivesymptoms.
Just one act of gratitude, andso and so, just what I find in
my own life is that when I drillinto and drill into the state
of my own soul oftentimes, and Ibegin to think about where it
(37:23):
is, depending on where mygratitude is, can often be a
really good indicator as towhere everything else is as it
relates to my depressive stateor my anxious state or my
worrying and all these differenttypes of things.
It ties back oftentimes to howwell am I remembering?
(37:45):
And so and so I just, I'm, likeI said, I am so fascinated and
so encouraged by what you guysare doing.
It's incredible work.
Let me, let me turn the turnthe question, or turn the
conversation in a different way,quickly, while we still have
you for a few minutes.
And actually this how do youbelieve your work is
intersecting with the work ofMission Mississippi?
(38:08):
Because we're aboutreconciliation and pursuing this
realized reconciliation that wealready have in Jesus, but
enjoying it in a real way in ourlocal churches and in our
communities.
How can the work that you guysare doing in our local churches
and in our communities, how canthe work that you guys are doing
, how can that aid us and helpus?
(38:28):
If we're laypersons or if we'releaders and pastors in our
local communities, how can thiswork help us in the work of
unity?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Okay, you know I always jump in first.
He finishes, he polishes mycrude comment.
You know I now use a termthat's not a real classy term.
But the weller you are, themore you meet other people's
needs, the more you're concernedabout your relationships with
(38:56):
other people.
That's why God said you know,love God with all your heart,
soul, mind and strength, andlove your neighbor as yourself,
which involves not only lovingGod but loving yourself and then
loving your neighbor.
And so as we help hopefully, youknow, I mean we have to deal
with it ourselves.
I mean we're not sitting uphere because we got it all right
(39:17):
.
So we have to be careful thatthe number one thing pride or
whatever gets in the way of ustrying to be used by God, the
number one thing old pride orwhatever gets in the way of us
trying to be used by God.
But the the more we're able torealize how much God loves us
and how much he wants us to bewell and, like James said,
become all that he's had in mindfor us to be, with confidence
and joy, then we want otherpeople to get that too.
(39:38):
We want other people to be likethat, and it doesn't matter if
you're a member of my church, ifyou're a member of my community
or it doesn't matter.
You, just as God flows throughyou, you know and produces that
fruit as you abide in him.
That's what Jesus said abideand you will produce fruit.
(39:59):
It's not like you might, butyou'll produce love, joy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control, that fruit of hisspirit that comes out in you.
You just naturally want to goin and love other people, which
will move you into the greatcommission to go and make this
life.
So it's just such a simple planthat Jesus has just laid out
(40:24):
for us.
It really is.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
Yeah, I mean everything that Dad just said.
Part of it for me is justrecognizing again that there's a
higher calling, not necessarilythat we perform as Christians,
but there's a higher callingthat can be achieved through the
(40:56):
Holy Spirit.
The world is not capable ofreaching, isn't?
The world is not capable ofreaching?
And for our environments, and Imean, you know, I think we
could say across the world,these divisions that exist are
just opportunity, and I think inthat sense, it's an opportunity
(41:19):
for God to be glorified, for usto be set apart as brothers and
sisters in Christ and tocelebrate difference also, to
celebrate the unique thingsabout.
I mean, you know, it's like ifGod created all flowers the same
color, that would be fine, theywould still be beautiful, but I
(41:44):
tend to prefer all the colors.
I like the uniqueness of thedifference, and so I think it's
just to me a real opportunityfor the Holy Spirit to do
something very special thatcan't be achieved, achieved
without him, and it's beautiful.
And so I really I'm a bit of anidealist and so there's a deep
(42:09):
sense in me of just wanting tobe able to experience that
somewhat for the wow factor,just so that I can offer praise
and say that that's our god,that's how cool he is and that's
that's what he really wantsfrom us.
So how do you do that?
I think obviously it's a bigquestion, but I do think that
(42:32):
healthy people uh, tend topursue healthy things and so, as
far as what we do and how itintersects with what you all are
doing, it's both.
And you know, the healthierpeople can be, I think, the more
open they are to things likeforgiveness, which is super
(42:53):
healthy, and reconciliation,which is super healthy, and
turning the other cheek, becauseeverybody's been hurt and
everyone has a story.
So the greater God is to you,the less important those hurts
are or the injuries that youcarry, and the healthier you are
(43:13):
, I think, the more open you areto.
It's not about me, you know.
I tell people sometimes one ofthe hardest parts about things
like anxiety and depression isthey're very self-consuming and
from the outside perspective itmakes you look really selfish.
But it's mostly because you'rejust consumed in your own mind
(43:35):
with anxious thoughts and inyour body feelings, and so it's
not that you're selfish, it'sjust that if I have a gaping
wound, it's hard for me to reachout and offer help to the
person next to me.
So in that sense, the healthierwe can be, I think, the more
available we are to be helpfulfor others.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
And I really like this, loved your answer to the
whole root of reconciliationthat the healthier we are, the
more we can be for others.
You know that's going withJesus' sentiment of saying look
at the plank in your own eyebefore you look at the speck in
others.
It's not that there's actuallya speck in another person's eye
(44:19):
and you're the only one walkingaround with a plank.
It's like no, we all haveplanks eye and you're the only
one walking around with a plank.
It's like no, we all haveplanks.
Just when we look at someoneelse, we get annoyed more about
their spec because we don't seetheir spec as a plank Then and
we just ignore our own massiveplank.
I also look at this and I'm a.
My PhD is in philosophy, so Ialways look at things from a
(44:41):
philosophical perspective andwhat you guys are pinpointing at
could also be seen as a massiveproblem that we have within our
culture.
I'm thinking particularly CSLewis's abolition of men, men
without chests, that wholeconcept which I'm sure you guys
are I'm guessing y'all arefairly well aware of.
Cs Lewis and that whole conceptwhich I'm sure, uh, you guys
(45:02):
are, are pro I'm I'm I'mguessing y'all are fairly well
aware of of CS Lewis and thatwhole concept and and what
abolition of man uh pinpoints isthat, um, you know the, the,
the root problem of modernity isthat we, the, they've
bifurcated all the, the, the,the, the physical, physical body
, the emotional, psychologicalwell-being, the spiritual
(45:26):
well-being you know our strength, all of these different things
that should be rolled up to makeus, uh, you know, holistically
uh, strong and and healthy.
We've, we've bifurcated thosethings put them in different.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Put them in.
Yeah, people are our regularlisteners out there, exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
They don't have conversations and converse with
one another.
So we've become individuals whoare incongruent with our
individual selves, not even withthe rest of society, but we're
incongruent with ourselves to adegree of society.
But we're incongruent withourselves to a degree, and what
I see, the major impact thaty'all can offer is because us
(46:10):
pastors are going to maybe lookat this and say, well, we have
cultural influences that arecausing us to be at odds with
ourselves in this regard.
We're at odds with our hopesbecause oftentimes we fill the
God-sized holes that we havewith things of this world and we
(46:30):
have a culture that praisesthat and that encourages that.
So us pastors can point thisout.
But the real benefit that, drsKent's I'm just going to add the
S for both Drs and Kents, theDrs Kent's that y'all can offer
is that that, that, that thatkind of that, that precision,
that that's uh scalpel, so tospeak, with uh, your, your
(46:54):
capacity to diagnose and yourcapacity to find solutions, um,
on a more scientific level, um,which I can tell you already
have the, the, the theologicaldepth, the philosophical depth
to under, uh, to understand, uh,the cultural problems that are,
that are breaching into this aswell, and just the solution,
(47:14):
you know, and your name Mark, 12, 30, 31 is leading with, the
solution to what our problem is,which is individual persons who
have become so divided withinourselves that we can't even you
know, we almost can't even haveconversation.
Like you know, like we have thatlack of confidence.
(47:34):
You know, when you talk tosomebody and you can tell that
they don't even believe thewords behind their own, that
their own voice is saying out,that's what I mean is somebody
who is at odds with themselves.
Is that they're not, they don'thave confidence in their own
words.
And we've produced well, we'veproduced communities full of
(47:57):
persons like that and I feellike your effort can help on a
spiritual and theological level,can help to correct that path.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, I'm reminded in such clear terms in this
conversation of a quote thatI've heard shared on many
occasions from many differentpeople, and that's you cannot
give what you do not have.
And there are oftentimes thatwe're trying to um, as leaders,
um, oftentimes trying to pourinto people, uh, when, when we
(48:32):
ourselves are empty and and, andit impacts.
It impacts everybody.
It impacts those that'sreceiving that pouring, but it
also impacts the one that'sdoing the pouring when they're
pouring from empty spaces andplaces, and so this has been
incredible.
Can I ask one more question ofyou, gentlemen, before we part
ways?
And that's this for the averagelay person that may be
(48:55):
listening to this and thinkingabout how they can come
alongside their pastors, theircommunity leaders and those that
have been entrusted to leadthem in some shape, form or
fashion.
What can they do?
What encouragement can theyoffer?
What aid, what support, whatwisdom?
(49:16):
If you have one thing to givethem, what would you give them
to help them in serving thosethat are leading them become
better versions of themselves?
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Well, I brought this up in my Bible Fellowship class
Sunday, and that is when you seea pastor in the hall, tell them
two things.
Tell them one thing and askthem one thing.
That is, I'm praying for youand what can I do to help.
You know, oftentimes we go topastors to get something and so
(49:49):
you know if, if, if you can go,come alongside your pastor and I
said that, don't be shocked,they may ask, actually ask you
to do something.
So you know, you know don't,but but come alongside them and
what can I do to help you doyour work?
Our deacon body.
Last time I was chairman, Iassigned deacons to each staff
(50:11):
person and fortunately that'skind of continued in our church,
so that a group of deaconssurrounded each pastor and
helped them with whatever theyWell, at a party for a minute
there At a little balloon.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
See, austin's really excited about what Dr Kent said.
I love it.
He just liked it.
And a bunch of balloons justflashed off.
Those of y'all who arelistening, we're having a party
now.
A bunch of blogey blows justflew across Austin Springs.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
That's how we're sorry, how we're sorry of an
inward reality.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
But to land that plane just to try to get us to
come alongside our pastors.
I consider them the elders ofour church and the leaders of
our church and we're supposed tocome alongside them and help
them do the ministry of the word.
You know, let them minister theword and prayer and then let us
do the service, the acts ofservice within the church, and
(51:14):
so just come alongside them andsay, what can I do to help you?
Yeah, I would add to that.
Speaker 4 (51:20):
We had a conversation with one of the pastors where
we were in church and a greatguy and and really sharp, and,
uh, we're very close to him, andso he he shared with us that,
um, you know, I don't rememberif he put a number, but I'd say
probably eight out of ten peoplewho come in his office are
adding something to his plateand only about two out of 10 are
(51:45):
actually removing something.
And so I would tell people torecognize that pastors are first
and foremost human, that theyhave bills and marital struggles
and sometimes they don't knowwhat to do about their children,
who are going through somethingdifficult.
(52:05):
They have health problems, justlike everyone.
So just to not treat them asthough they are held to some
standard, that you personallyare not held to, that they're
human and that if you could beone of those people who at least
(52:27):
offers to remove something fromtheir plate, that's what a
partnership I think really lookslike for them.
And then, lastly, I talk aboutthe bystander effect.
You guys might be familiar withit, but it's a principle in
psychology that if you're in acrowd of people and someone goes
down and is hurt, an individualis less likely to step forward
(52:51):
to help if you're in a crowd,and so be the one that steps up,
that doesn't wait for someoneelse to step up and and feel the
need that you see you be thefirst one to do it.
Um, because that is somethingthat apparently we just are
naturally used to doing, I'mgoing to let someone else.
(53:13):
Surely someone else is morequalified.
I've never taught him classbefore.
I don't uh, I don't know if Icould drive the church fan.
It's really big.
Whatever your fear may be, bethe one who steps up.
I promise you they're.
They're not going to put you ina position where you can't
handle it.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
So that's what I would say, gentlemen, it's it's
been an incredible privilege andjoy and pleasure to have this
conversation with you guys.
To have this conversation withyou guys.
How can our listeners keep upwith you?
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Give us some, some social media, some, some ways
that they can keep up withwhat's going on at 1230.
It's a great question that.
So right now we're in themiddle of, of getting our
website up and running, but itshould be very shortly and
that'll be 1230.org, I believe,and other than that, that's
about it.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
We're still working on it.
We are so in front of what'shappening, what the Lord is
doing with you guys.
We are not only cutting it, weare going to be leading it.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
We really lost.
June 1st was our big loss.
So we are we're just a fewweeks into it, but god's doing
some amazing things.
Yeah, um and uh, but yeah,we're just super grateful for
you all having saying I'll justtell you this.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
We will be calling on both of y'all in the future,
okay, well, this is don't thinkthis is a one-hit wonder.
We're coming back to you, boy.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Absolutely Anything y'all need.
Man, we're there to help youguys out in any capacity.
Love what you guys are doing.
I see the need in it and I'msupportive all the way.
Just let me know how I can help.
Speaker 1 (54:59):
Absolutely Glad to return the favor.
Brothers, it's been a pleasureand a joy.
For those of y'all who arelistening or watching, please
know that you can alwayssubscribe to this podcast.
It's easy.
Just go out to LivingReconciled on any podcast app,
whether it's Apple, whether it'sAmazon, whatever podcast
application that you use searchon Living Reconciled and we're
typically the first one that youfind Living Reconciled by
(55:21):
Mission Mississippi.
Please go out, subscribe, like,share with friends, family,
church members.
We would very much appreciateit and share your feedback with
us.
We would love to hear how wecan continue to grow and improve
this podcast and how we canserve you and serve our
community and our local churchesbetter with this podcast.
So please feel free to shareyour feedback Again, it's been a
(55:49):
pleasure to spend time with theKent men, james and Rodney Kent
, and, on behalf of Dr AustinHoyle, I am Brian Crawford, and
we are signing off all sayingGod bless, god bless.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(56:13):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com