December 11, 2024 • 30 mins
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Reverend Terry Williams takes us on a heartfelt journey through his life and mission in Greenwood, Mississippi, sharing how his faith has fueled his dedication to reconciliation. We uncover his personal experiences growing up in a divided community and the strides made toward unity, from increased representation of black officials to integrated churches and schools. Reverend Williams' sincere reflections illuminate the ongoing challenges while kindling hope for continued progress through collective efforts.
With over two decades of experience, Pastor Williams shares how building relationships fosters empathy and oneness. We delve into the necessity of collaboration and an open mindset to achieve lasting change.
Special thanks to Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
My name is Brian Crawford and Iserve as the host of this
(00:36):
podcast.
My friends Nettie Winters,austin Hoyle are not with me
today.
I am actually on assignment inGreenwood Mississippi, but I got
a really, really good friendthat I would love to talk more
with, terry Williams.
Terry Williams is a longtimenative of Greenwood Mississippi,
(00:58):
he is a pastor, he is acommunity leader and he is the
co-chair of Mission Mississippiof Leflore County, and so I'm
going to get Terry to tell youall about that here, but first I
just want to give a quick shoutout to our sponsors folks like
St Dominic's Nissan, folks likeAnn Winters, robert Ward, people
(01:21):
like Anderson United MethodistChurch, as well as Brown
Missionary Baptist Church.
Thank you all so much, becauseit is what you do that makes
everything we do possible, andwhat we're doing today is
talking to Reverend TerryWilliams.
Brother, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Doing good, Brian Good, Good man Doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Bad C here.
Excellent, Excellent man, whydon't you tell us a little bit
about Terry Williams man?
Tell us a little bit about yourstory of faith, how you ended
up in ministry and your family.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let's start there for the work of God and I went into
the candidacy in 2004 of theUnited Methodist Church as a
candidate for ordained ministryand I became a local pastor in
2007 when I completed mylicensed school in Gallman,
(02:17):
mississippi, where the licensingwere.
But I'm just excited about justto be a part of what God is
doing and I'm more excited aboutbeing a part of Mission
Mississippi.
We, like I say, we meet monthlyhere.
Prior to COVID, we was havingsome great meetings and the
momentum was really high and wewas experiencing some some, some
(02:41):
tremendous turnouts andpromoting Mission Mississippi
and just saw a lot ofrelationships being made.
And so when COVID came, it justkind of everything went on a
downer, but the passion wasstill there.
So now, since we've resumed nowabout maybe six or seven months
ago, the beginning of this yearin fact, starting up our
(03:04):
mission breakfasts again, and sohere we are.
I'm still excited about MissionMississippi and what we're doing
here in the Florida County.
We're trying to continue toundergird what the state level
is doing and I'm thankful foryou, brian, coming to share with
us and I just want to makemyself available that, whatever
(03:27):
it is that we can do throughtraining or furthering, you know
Mission Mississippi and beingan outlet to do more and so.
But this ministry is much neededhere.
I've lived here for many yearsand I've saw a lot of division
and I've lived through a lot ofthat, but we have made
(03:48):
tremendous progress and reachingout across the racial divides
and some of the things that aregoing on.
And I want to just say, man, wereally have been experiencing a
lot of you know things here inthe Floyd County, like you know,
shootings and all types ofstuff.
But we are praying, we'reutilizing all of our energy, all
(04:14):
of our efforts, and also wehave the ministerial lounge here
that supports MissionMississippi and we also have
another group called theChristian Pastors Coalition for
Change, and so you know, thesegroups, you know, will come
together, peer auditing, shareideas and so.
But I'm just more excited aboutbeing on board with Mission
Mississippi.
I have a great desire to seethis ministry strive and to
(04:39):
really want to position myselfas a local chair, to do all I
can and to use and use all theeffort and the fiber that I have
to promote this ministry andhelp Mission Mississippi in any
way that I can.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, you know, you talked about Terry, this growing
up in Greenwood.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I grew up here.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, when you're up here growing up in Greenwood,
how would you describe theracial climate growing up versus
the climate right now?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, like I say, man , growing up, I saw a lot of
racial divide.
You know, I saw things that youknow because, my dad being a
painting contractor, you know weworked for a lot of Caucasians
and we worked, you know, forsome reason we worked for very
(05:32):
few Black people but we did workfor some periodically.
But I did see things that youknow, I've always been here but
I saw a lot of one-sided becauseduring that time, when I was a
teenager, coming up, uh, in theearly 80s, uh, younger, you know
, there were no black peopleliving in North Greenwood.
It was just predominantlyCaucasian people.
(05:53):
Uh, you know Greenwood havereally, uh, struggled for for
quite a while.
But I do see, compared to now, Ido see change.
I do see, compared to now, I dosee change, I do see a trend of
change because you know we havemore black elected officials
and you know I see some changein some of the political seats
(06:17):
and what have you, and you knowwe've had a black mayor and I do
see people reaching across thenormal, and so I can see a
difference.
I can see a difference, but ittakes both sides.
It takes both sides and onething that I have noticed is
(06:39):
that some of the churches arecoming together now.
You know, I think when you lookat First Prez or Northbury with
Baptist, these churches havesome black members now, and so
when you look at a privateschool like Kilo Academy, you
know they got a lot of blackstudents.
So that's a change.
(07:01):
But, brian, I want to say thatoftentimes I will hear people
make the statement that, well,you know, it's the same way.
It was back in, uh, 1960 or 19,but it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
yeah, it's not the same, it's different yeah, you
know, in our, in ourfrustrations at times, in our
frustrations with progress, wecan sometimes overspeak or
undermine the progress thatwe've made.
Of course there's plenty moreprogress to go, but we harm the
progress that's ahead when wecommunicate that we haven't made
(07:39):
any.
We communicate that we haven'tmade any, but so it's like.
So it's like if you, if you, ifyou have a young man, is, you
know, in a track meet, or orhe's in, he's, he's practicing
for a track meet, and you tellthe young man to run, run 10
miles, and he runs two, and youcome back and you say, man, you
ain't ran nothing.
It's like, oh man, why am Ieven running that, running the
rest of the eight?
If you didn't see me run thetwo, then how about running
(08:02):
eight?
You know, and so and so it's.
It's helpful for us to strivefor progress, but not at the
cost of undermining, right, theprogress that we've made.
So, like you said, we have madeprogress in our, in our state.
There's definitely some thingsthat we're doing now that we did
(08:24):
not do 20 years ago, 30 yearsago, 50 years ago, 50 years ago,
certainly 60 years ago.
But the challenge is not to orthe or the task is not to
undermine that progress.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
The task is to keep going, but I can honestly say
not what someone told me, infact, or what I could possibly
heard, but I have seen a change.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, here yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
In the city of Greenwood, in LaFleur County.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I have Give me some.
Give me some of those changes.
When you talk about changes,what do they look like?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
What I have seen.
Just like I said, there was atime where you wouldn't have or
Caucasians or, in fact,african-american people meeting,
yeah, and conversating.
They probably did it privatelyor something like that, but now
we have those open conversations, open dialogue, open
conversation, open dialogue.
(09:10):
Even me, as a, as a localpastor, as a, as a small
businessman, I have greatrelationship with the mayor of
this city, you know, carolynMcAdams, and the police chief
and the fire chief, marcus Banks, and I talk with these people
and share what I'm doing withMission Mississippi and so.
(09:31):
But, like I was sharing withyou earlier, there have been a
great change because I see morepeople conversating, I see more
people not that you're beingnosy, but they're hanging out a
little bit I see more peoplehaving conversations about, and
more people now are moreenergetic about, our city yeah,
(09:54):
our city across the racialdivide.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I tell you I was blown away, if I'm being honest
here.
I know you mentioned that youguys had incredible momentum
pre-COVID.
I was blown away by themomentum that you got right now.
Oh yeah, ethnic and culturallives across the color line,
(10:22):
yeah, and so you got white,black and brown all in the same
room, incredibly energized andwanting to see the Lord do this
work of unifying us across theselines, and so that was super
encouraging to me today.
That's one of the things I'vebeen on cloud nine since I've
been here, just really braggingto everybody that I've been
(10:44):
talking to about what I'm seeinghere, and so I assume that that
in and of itself, is areflection of that change.
You've been talking about thatthat 30 years ago you wouldn't,
you wouldn't have seen, youwouldn't have seen.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you wouldn't have seen that, and so.
But here, but here what I'msaying, although we're there,
our presence are there, ourenergy are there to want to make
a difference, want to, you know, hey, live into what we know
that will be fruitful.
(11:18):
But yet, brian, there are stillsome things that we struggle
with.
Sure, there's still someuncertainties, because, face it,
let's look at it, we all comefrom different backgrounds,
absolutely, and so we carry this, I wouldn't say baggage, but we
carry this luggage around withus and oftentimes, you know,
(11:38):
that could possibly paralyze usto go farther, in fact, or to go
deeper, but I'm just crazyenough to believe, through the
mission and the work of MissionMississippi, that we are going
to cross some of those hurdles.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I just believe it, brian, and I think we have to,
terry.
I believe it.
You talked about some of theviolence in your community.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Unpack that a little bit more.
What are you guys seeing inGreenwood as it relates to
violence?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We're experiencing gun violence, primarily among
young African-Americans.
I mean, it ranges from anywhereto 14, 16, 21, 22 years old.
You know it had gotten so badone time, brian, until Dr Green
(12:35):
and myself and Dr it was 12pastors we came,
african-american pastors.
We came together and said, man,something, something just got.
We met at New Zion, reverendCalvin Collins and I thought
about the 12 disciples and wemet and we cried out and we
(13:02):
started a movement called thePastors Coalition for Change and
we went to the courthouse.
We got in touch with the mayor.
We said, well, hey, this hasgone too far.
And believe it or not, man,when we came together, we just
cried out that's all we knew todo.
So, lord, what is this?
(13:22):
And we cried out and believe itor not, man, you know it for
what reason?
It dialed down, it dialed downit just and so we're still
meeting, we're still trying tocome together and pull churches
together.
But we're experiencing gunviolence and oftentimes, you
(13:44):
know, people put stuff in thepaper where and I don't feel I
guess that's just the way it isPeople put something in the
paper, make a statement aboutsomething, but you don't see
their name, and so is that a wayto stir up tension, or I mean.
But I'm just saying you knowthat's something to think about
on local mean, but I'm justsaying you know that's something
to think of on a local paper,but mainly it's just the gun
(14:08):
violence.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
You know it has gotten and sometimes it stopped
in a flare back up.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So you mentioned the Ministers Association Passes for
Change.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The Passes Coalition.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Passes.
Coalition for Change yeah.
What other initiatives, whatother activities did you see in
terms of bringing thesedifferent groups together to
work on the violence?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So what we do.
We formed the Pastors Coalitionfor Change and we just went out
in the community and it waskind of tough, but many of us,
we went to those areas wherethis stuff was going on.
We went there and prayed and wewent there to those locations.
It was a risk but we went thereand prayed Ground zero, that's
(15:00):
what the violence was going.
We went there and prayed and wegot out in the community, began
to talk to people and one of mytasks was to connect with those
families that lost those lovedones to let them know we're
praying for y'all.
We got them a card and passed asign Just trying to let them
(15:20):
know that, hey, you know, we'rethinking about you, we're
thinking about you guys, and itreally spoke volumes and we took
pictures with them.
I went back to the coalition andsaid, well, hey, you know, this
is a family I connected with,this is the family and they, you
know, we stayed on top of them,connecting with them because of
(15:41):
what they had experienced.
But we wanted to be morevisible in the community.
Sitting around this gunviolence, sitting around these
things that are going on, wecan't do everything, but our
presence, yeah, it speaks, youknow to go and check on these
folks, man, but you just neverknow until you've been there.
(16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You there.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And so we also got connectedwith the schools.
We met with the superintendentand we had a day where we
invited all the young people.
We had like a banquet it waswith the city school and we
donated their money that theycould use towards whatever they
(16:26):
wanted to do X number of dollars, whether it were to the band or
whether it were to the schooluniforms or whatever it was.
We allocated a certain amountof funds for that and these
pastors were during that time.
These pastors spoke a word ofencouragement and we encouraged
the superintendent of theschools during that time.
(16:47):
I think it's I forget the guyman, but he's a very nice guy
and we planned that day togetherfrom the Pastors Coalition.
So just trying to be creativeand let the community know that.
You know we're not here just tobe out here for nothing, but we
want to try to make adifference and, like, I was
sharing with Dr Green and a fewmore of them, and one thing that
I kind of thought about as apastor's coalition, you know all
(17:09):
of us are African-American andso, but I was sharing with them.
You know we have to be morediverse.
Yeah, we have to invite becausemore than us live here.
Yeah, and you know when allthis stuff is going on, it just
it could affect any andeverybody.
I was about to say all of usare impacted.
All of us are impacted.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
All of us are impacted.
So how are we laboring andworking to bring all of us to
the table?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Bring everybody to the table.
You know, because, like you say, when this stuff go on, anybody
can you know be affected?
Absolutely, this stuff go on,anybody can you know be affected
?
Absolutely, you know, and so,but in spite of all of that, I
still have motivation.
Yeah, you know, I still have.
I'm not going to.
You know, Galatians teach usdon't go weary.
(17:58):
Yeah, and we only do it, andI'm enthused.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In due season, we shall reap what we've paid, not,
yeah, in due time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I'm excited.
So, man, I tell you, it's justa.
You know, I think it was forthe Nehemiah that had a great
desire to rebuild, yeah well,yeah yeah, around the city.
Yeah, jerusalem, yes, sir.
So you know, but I'm thankful.
I kind of gravitate thatconcept because oftentimes, when
(18:30):
you find yourself makingprogress and doing things,
you're going to always bedistracted.
Oh, you know, come down, butyou know he didn't come down.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Right, did you have a great work to do, brother,
because I thought it was worthit.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
No, that's where I am , man, you know.
And let me just say for me,Brian, it's really not about and
I have people call me man,you're doing a good job, man.
Well, man, thank you, you know,I give the praise to God.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't desire no fame or nopublicity, but I just want to
try to position myself to be ahelp, especially with Mission
(19:06):
Mississippi, because I have apassion for this.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Tell me about speaking of Mission Mississippi.
Tell me about what's excitingfor you right now, what gives
you hope, what gives you energyas you think about Mission
Mississippi and what's on thehorizon.
You think about Mission.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Mississippi and what's on the horizon.
What gives me hope and energyabout Mission Mississippi is
what I have a passion for is tosee people come together in the
area of authenticity, in thearea of just being real, to
(19:46):
build healthy relationships forthe betterment of our community.
Until we, you know, gravitatethe mindset that it's not about
our skin color, it's not aboutnotoriety or the positions that
we hold in Christ's real worldand that's what I see in Mission
(20:12):
Mississippi too Cross thosebarriers that have crippled us
for so long yeah, for so longthat, you know, we can really
have a deep conversation and behonest about how we feel and how
this have impacted our lives,that we can pass on to our jury.
(20:36):
And that's why I'm willing toinvest in Mission Mississippi,
because God has given me apassion to really get to know
people that people would reallyget to know me.
And so you know, and I'mthankful for your leadership,
brian, I'm thankful for what you, what you brought to the table,
(20:58):
that many of them came thismorning as you shared your idea,
as you shared your plan, withthe next phases of what you want
to teach us, that we can passit on to teach others.
So that's you know.
I just want to be doingsomething.
Yeah, I don't want to becomestagnant.
(21:18):
Yeah, well.
And I believe in MissionMississippi.
Yeah, you know, from the firstday, when I first met Dolphins,
we were in Grenada.
Wow, that was 20-plus years ago.
Wow, I never thought that, youknow, I would be a part of it
this way, right, but I alwaysdid believe in it.
You know, when they would sendme little newsletters, I'd read
(21:39):
it, put a little donation inthere and said it, you know, and
so, man, I just believe thatthe best is yet to come.
There are better days ahead,amen.
If we could just learn to worktogether.
And, you know, accept the factthat it's, in a sense, it's hard
(22:01):
.
You know, trying to bringpeople together, absolutely, in
a sense it's hard, you know,trying to bring people together,
trying to, you know, I like touse your word pick people's
brains, yeah, but it's also hard.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, it's hard work.
Yes, I love when you say thatthat is not just simply hard
work but, it's hard work.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I love that.
I love that and I'veexperienced that for myself and
I'm thankful, man, that mymindset is open and I try to
invite other people that I talkabout Mission Mississippi.
I share that with peopleeverywhere I go.
You know I'm sharing it with mychurch family and from what you
(22:51):
have shared with us today, ithas illuminated me even farther,
when the plan that you weresharing me about the groups yeah
, you know, man, that's been,you know, so I got to develop.
I'm not just comfortable withyou know, I want to do more.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know I want to manage my time.
I guess if I could use thatyeah, I want to manage myself to
, you know, do more in the area,and so, therefore, that you
know we can attain or we canreach more people, Because, like
you said you saw it today,brian I'm surrounded with some
(23:35):
good people.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yes, sir, yes, sir, man, outrageous people, man, you
guys are doing incredible,incredible work in LeFleur
County and, like I said, I'mleaving so richly encouraged and
so grateful to you as the chairof this great local movement,
and to all the others that arecontributing to the work.
(23:57):
I'm leaving incredibly,incredibly encouraged, terry.
And so, yes, we're excitedabout what's happening in
LeFleur County.
We are grateful for all thishappening in LeFleur County and
how Mission Mississippi isplaying an active role in the
healing of not just racialdivides, but cultural, cultural,
(24:17):
cultural divides, ethnicdivides, partisan divides, even,
obviously, in a politicallycharged season like we're in,
with people that are voting fromall different persuasion, cast
their ballots in all thesedifferent directions, and being
(24:38):
able to sit in that room withthat group of Christians and
navigate through that and havethat conversation in a way that
doesn't lead to more harm butleads to healing and leads to
understanding and empathy.
That's at the heart or, at theend of the day, that's what
Mission Mississippi is all about?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Don't think about it.
We share so much in common.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
More in common than we don't.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Absolutely Well, and my desire is to be the feet, the
arms, the eyes, those partsthat will continue to position
(25:20):
this ministry to breathe freelyyeah, not struggling to do it in
a way.
And, of course, you know we'regoing to face all type of
obstacles.
Yes, you know we're going toface things, challenges, just as
David faced Goliath.
(25:41):
Yes, many giants going to come.
Yes, in our way, but I knowthat, trusting God and really
being adamant about the workthat needs to be done and one
thing that you said so bravelywas that I can't do it by myself
(26:03):
.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
No, no, this is teamwork.
This is teamwork.
It's necessary work, but it'steamwork, it's teamwork, it's
teamwork.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But I'm believing, with your leadership, your
ideals and the things that Godis giving you, along with your
coworkers personally helping youfacilitate in that area, we're
open.
Praise God, we're open.
Yeah, whatever it is that wecan do in the future, things,
(26:33):
we're open.
Praise God, we're open.
Yeah, you know, whatever it isthat we can do in the future,
things, we're open.
And the reason why I say we,because I have a group of people
that can trust me, that I builtrelationship with these, which
is important, yes, sir, which isimportant.
Yes, sir, you know, even in mywork area, brian, one of my main
(26:53):
objectives is and I've beentold well, man, you're the best
planter there is.
But what I tell them, I saywell, I put it this way, I said
I really believe I'm not thebest, but I can do it until he
shows up.
Yeah, yeah, I said maybe do ituntil he show up.
Yeah, yeah, I said maybe dountil he come.
(27:16):
In other words, you ain't goingto tell me to pack up and leave
until he get there.
So, and that's, you know, I'madamant.
But my main objective is, evenin my profession, the first and
foremost, I want to build arelationship with the people
that I'm working for, becausethat's important Absolutely.
They may call me back.
Want to build a relationshipwith the people that I'm working
(27:38):
for, because that's importantAbsolutely.
They may call me back if Ibuild a relationship.
And in fact, brian, if thetruth be told, I work for people
.
They don't want no relationship, they want me to get your work
do your work get away from you,and I have experienced it.
Yes, sir, you know, I've triedto talk to them.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
They didn't really want to talk, just OK, but
relationships, like you said,relationships allow, leave room
for greater work, greater workto be done, and that's my
intention.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Relationships leave room forgreater work to be done.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Mary, you just don't know how thankful I am, man, for
you just to come in and, man toman, I'm telling you, man, I'm
going to get phone calls all day, terry, man, this has been, I'm
going to get phone.
I'm serious, you don't know,I'm going to get phone.
I've been getting texts, I'vebeen getting phone calls.
Man, how did you get thepresident?
How did you get the president?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But, terry, this has been my pleasure, man, let me
tell you, and my absolute joy,in fact, the privilege has been
all mine to spend this day inLeFleur County with Mississippi.
Lefleur County, terry Williams,you are doing a phenomenal job,
man, I have to praise you andto God be the glory For those
that are listening.
Feel free at any time tosubscribe to our podcast.
(28:45):
You can go to any podcast appand search on Living Reconciled
where you can subscribe, shareand like this episode and any
other episodes that you might belistening to.
It's been great to be withTerry Williams in the LeFleur
County Mission, Mississippigroup this week.
I am Brian Crawford, with myfriend Terry Williams signing
off saying God bless.
(29:07):
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
(29:28):
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
My name is Brian Crawford and Iserve as the host of this
(00:36):
podcast.
My friends Nettie Winters,austin Hoyle are not with me
today.
I am actually on assignment inGreenwood Mississippi, but I got
a really, really good friendthat I would love to talk more
with, terry Williams.
Terry Williams is a longtimenative of Greenwood Mississippi,
(00:58):
he is a pastor, he is acommunity leader and he is the
co-chair of Mission Mississippiof Leflore County, and so I'm
going to get Terry to tell youall about that here, but first I
just want to give a quick shoutout to our sponsors folks like
St Dominic's Nissan, folks likeAnn Winters, robert Ward, people
(01:21):
like Anderson United MethodistChurch, as well as Brown
Missionary Baptist Church.
Thank you all so much, becauseit is what you do that makes
everything we do possible, andwhat we're doing today is
talking to Reverend TerryWilliams.
Brother, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Doing good, Brian Good, Good man Doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Bad C here.
Excellent, Excellent man, whydon't you tell us a little bit
about Terry Williams man?
Tell us a little bit about yourstory of faith, how you ended
up in ministry and your family.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Let's start there for the work of God and I went into
the candidacy in 2004 of theUnited Methodist Church as a
candidate for ordained ministryand I became a local pastor in
2007 when I completed mylicensed school in Gallman,
(02:17):
mississippi, where the licensingwere.
But I'm just excited about justto be a part of what God is
doing and I'm more excited aboutbeing a part of Mission
Mississippi.
We, like I say, we meet monthlyhere.
Prior to COVID, we was havingsome great meetings and the
momentum was really high and wewas experiencing some some, some
(02:41):
tremendous turnouts andpromoting Mission Mississippi
and just saw a lot ofrelationships being made.
And so when COVID came, it justkind of everything went on a
downer, but the passion wasstill there.
So now, since we've resumed nowabout maybe six or seven months
ago, the beginning of this yearin fact, starting up our
(03:04):
mission breakfasts again, and sohere we are.
I'm still excited about MissionMississippi and what we're doing
here in the Florida County.
We're trying to continue toundergird what the state level
is doing and I'm thankful foryou, brian, coming to share with
us and I just want to makemyself available that, whatever
(03:27):
it is that we can do throughtraining or furthering, you know
Mission Mississippi and beingan outlet to do more and so.
But this ministry is much neededhere.
I've lived here for many yearsand I've saw a lot of division
and I've lived through a lot ofthat, but we have made
(03:48):
tremendous progress and reachingout across the racial divides
and some of the things that aregoing on.
And I want to just say, man, wereally have been experiencing a
lot of you know things here inthe Floyd County, like you know,
shootings and all types ofstuff.
But we are praying, we'reutilizing all of our energy, all
(04:14):
of our efforts, and also wehave the ministerial lounge here
that supports MissionMississippi and we also have
another group called theChristian Pastors Coalition for
Change, and so you know, thesegroups, you know, will come
together, peer auditing, shareideas and so.
But I'm just more excited aboutbeing on board with Mission
Mississippi.
I have a great desire to seethis ministry strive and to
(04:39):
really want to position myselfas a local chair, to do all I
can and to use and use all theeffort and the fiber that I have
to promote this ministry andhelp Mission Mississippi in any
way that I can.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, you know, you talked about Terry, this growing
up in Greenwood.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, I grew up here.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, when you're up here growing up in Greenwood,
how would you describe theracial climate growing up versus
the climate right now?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, like I say, man , growing up, I saw a lot of
racial divide.
You know, I saw things that youknow because, my dad being a
painting contractor, you know weworked for a lot of Caucasians
and we worked, you know, forsome reason we worked for very
(05:32):
few Black people but we did workfor some periodically.
But I did see things that youknow, I've always been here but
I saw a lot of one-sided becauseduring that time, when I was a
teenager, coming up, uh, in theearly 80s, uh, younger, you know
, there were no black peopleliving in North Greenwood.
It was just predominantlyCaucasian people.
(05:53):
Uh, you know Greenwood havereally, uh, struggled for for
quite a while.
But I do see, compared to now, Ido see change.
I do see, compared to now, I dosee change, I do see a trend of
change because you know we havemore black elected officials
and you know I see some changein some of the political seats
(06:17):
and what have you, and you knowwe've had a black mayor and I do
see people reaching across thenormal, and so I can see a
difference.
I can see a difference, but ittakes both sides.
It takes both sides and onething that I have noticed is
(06:39):
that some of the churches arecoming together now.
You know, I think when you lookat First Prez or Northbury with
Baptist, these churches havesome black members now, and so
when you look at a privateschool like Kilo Academy, you
know they got a lot of blackstudents.
So that's a change.
(07:01):
But, brian, I want to say thatoftentimes I will hear people
make the statement that, well,you know, it's the same way.
It was back in, uh, 1960 or 19,but it's not the same.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
yeah, it's not the same, it's different yeah, you
know, in our, in ourfrustrations at times, in our
frustrations with progress, wecan sometimes overspeak or
undermine the progress thatwe've made.
Of course there's plenty moreprogress to go, but we harm the
progress that's ahead when wecommunicate that we haven't made
(07:39):
any.
We communicate that we haven'tmade any, but so it's like.
So it's like if you, if you, ifyou have a young man, is, you
know, in a track meet, or orhe's in, he's, he's practicing
for a track meet, and you tellthe young man to run, run 10
miles, and he runs two, and youcome back and you say, man, you
ain't ran nothing.
It's like, oh man, why am Ieven running that, running the
rest of the eight?
If you didn't see me run thetwo, then how about running
(08:02):
eight?
You know, and so and so it's.
It's helpful for us to strivefor progress, but not at the
cost of undermining, right, theprogress that we've made.
So, like you said, we have madeprogress in our, in our state.
There's definitely some thingsthat we're doing now that we did
(08:24):
not do 20 years ago, 30 yearsago, 50 years ago, 50 years ago,
certainly 60 years ago.
But the challenge is not to orthe or the task is not to
undermine that progress.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
The task is to keep going, but I can honestly say
not what someone told me, infact, or what I could possibly
heard, but I have seen a change.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, here yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
In the city of Greenwood, in LaFleur County.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I have Give me some.
Give me some of those changes.
When you talk about changes,what do they look like?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
What I have seen.
Just like I said, there was atime where you wouldn't have or
Caucasians or, in fact,african-american people meeting,
yeah, and conversating.
They probably did it privatelyor something like that, but now
we have those open conversations, open dialogue, open
conversation, open dialogue.
(09:10):
Even me, as a, as a localpastor, as a, as a small
businessman, I have greatrelationship with the mayor of
this city, you know, carolynMcAdams, and the police chief
and the fire chief, marcus Banks, and I talk with these people
and share what I'm doing withMission Mississippi and so.
(09:31):
But, like I was sharing withyou earlier, there have been a
great change because I see morepeople conversating, I see more
people not that you're beingnosy, but they're hanging out a
little bit I see more peoplehaving conversations about, and
more people now are moreenergetic about, our city yeah,
(09:54):
our city across the racialdivide.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I tell you I was blown away, if I'm being honest
here.
I know you mentioned that youguys had incredible momentum
pre-COVID.
I was blown away by themomentum that you got right now.
Oh yeah, ethnic and culturallives across the color line,
(10:22):
yeah, and so you got white,black and brown all in the same
room, incredibly energized andwanting to see the Lord do this
work of unifying us across theselines, and so that was super
encouraging to me today.
That's one of the things I'vebeen on cloud nine since I've
been here, just really braggingto everybody that I've been
(10:44):
talking to about what I'm seeinghere, and so I assume that that
in and of itself, is areflection of that change.
You've been talking about thatthat 30 years ago you wouldn't,
you wouldn't have seen, youwouldn't have seen.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, you wouldn't have seen that, and so.
But here, but here what I'msaying, although we're there,
our presence are there, ourenergy are there to want to make
a difference, want to, you know, hey, live into what we know
that will be fruitful.
(11:18):
But yet, brian, there are stillsome things that we struggle
with.
Sure, there's still someuncertainties, because, face it,
let's look at it, we all comefrom different backgrounds,
absolutely, and so we carry this, I wouldn't say baggage, but we
carry this luggage around withus and oftentimes, you know,
(11:38):
that could possibly paralyze usto go farther, in fact, or to go
deeper, but I'm just crazyenough to believe, through the
mission and the work of MissionMississippi, that we are going
to cross some of those hurdles.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I just believe it, brian, and I think we have to,
terry.
I believe it.
You talked about some of theviolence in your community.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Unpack that a little bit more.
What are you guys seeing inGreenwood as it relates to
violence?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
We're experiencing gun violence, primarily among
young African-Americans.
I mean, it ranges from anywhereto 14, 16, 21, 22 years old.
You know it had gotten so badone time, brian, until Dr Green
(12:35):
and myself and Dr it was 12pastors we came,
african-american pastors.
We came together and said, man,something, something just got.
We met at New Zion, reverendCalvin Collins and I thought
about the 12 disciples and wemet and we cried out and we
(13:02):
started a movement called thePastors Coalition for Change and
we went to the courthouse.
We got in touch with the mayor.
We said, well, hey, this hasgone too far.
And believe it or not, man,when we came together, we just
cried out that's all we knew todo.
So, lord, what is this?
(13:22):
And we cried out and believe itor not, man, you know it for
what reason?
It dialed down, it dialed downit just and so we're still
meeting, we're still trying tocome together and pull churches
together.
But we're experiencing gunviolence and oftentimes, you
(13:44):
know, people put stuff in thepaper where and I don't feel I
guess that's just the way it isPeople put something in the
paper, make a statement aboutsomething, but you don't see
their name, and so is that a wayto stir up tension, or I mean.
But I'm just saying you knowthat's something to think about
on local mean, but I'm justsaying you know that's something
to think of on a local paper,but mainly it's just the gun
(14:08):
violence.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
You know it has gotten and sometimes it stopped
in a flare back up.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
So you mentioned the Ministers Association Passes for
Change.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The Passes Coalition.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Passes.
Coalition for Change yeah.
What other initiatives, whatother activities did you see in
terms of bringing thesedifferent groups together to
work on the violence?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
So what we do.
We formed the Pastors Coalitionfor Change and we just went out
in the community and it waskind of tough, but many of us,
we went to those areas wherethis stuff was going on.
We went there and prayed and wewent there to those locations.
It was a risk but we went thereand prayed Ground zero, that's
(15:00):
what the violence was going.
We went there and prayed and wegot out in the community, began
to talk to people and one of mytasks was to connect with those
families that lost those lovedones to let them know we're
praying for y'all.
We got them a card and passed asign Just trying to let them
(15:20):
know that, hey, you know, we'rethinking about you, we're
thinking about you guys, and itreally spoke volumes and we took
pictures with them.
I went back to the coalition andsaid, well, hey, you know, this
is a family I connected with,this is the family and they, you
know, we stayed on top of them,connecting with them because of
(15:41):
what they had experienced.
But we wanted to be morevisible in the community.
Sitting around this gunviolence, sitting around these
things that are going on, wecan't do everything, but our
presence, yeah, it speaks, youknow to go and check on these
folks, man, but you just neverknow until you've been there.
(16:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You there.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And so we also got connectedwith the schools.
We met with the superintendentand we had a day where we
invited all the young people.
We had like a banquet it waswith the city school and we
donated their money that theycould use towards whatever they
(16:26):
wanted to do X number of dollars, whether it were to the band or
whether it were to the schooluniforms or whatever it was.
We allocated a certain amountof funds for that and these
pastors were during that time.
These pastors spoke a word ofencouragement and we encouraged
the superintendent of theschools during that time.
(16:47):
I think it's I forget the guyman, but he's a very nice guy
and we planned that day togetherfrom the Pastors Coalition.
So just trying to be creativeand let the community know that.
You know we're not here just tobe out here for nothing, but we
want to try to make adifference and, like, I was
sharing with Dr Green and a fewmore of them, and one thing that
I kind of thought about as apastor's coalition, you know all
(17:09):
of us are African-American andso, but I was sharing with them.
You know we have to be morediverse.
Yeah, we have to invite becausemore than us live here.
Yeah, and you know when allthis stuff is going on, it just
it could affect any andeverybody.
I was about to say all of usare impacted.
All of us are impacted.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
All of us are impacted.
So how are we laboring andworking to bring all of us to
the table?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Bring everybody to the table.
You know, because, like you say, when this stuff go on, anybody
can you know be affected?
Absolutely, this stuff go on,anybody can you know be affected
?
Absolutely, you know, and so,but in spite of all of that, I
still have motivation.
Yeah, you know, I still have.
I'm not going to.
You know, Galatians teach usdon't go weary.
(17:58):
Yeah, and we only do it, andI'm enthused.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In due season, we shall reap what we've paid, not,
yeah, in due time.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I'm excited.
So, man, I tell you, it's justa.
You know, I think it was forthe Nehemiah that had a great
desire to rebuild, yeah well,yeah yeah, around the city.
Yeah, jerusalem, yes, sir.
So you know, but I'm thankful.
I kind of gravitate thatconcept because oftentimes, when
(18:30):
you find yourself makingprogress and doing things,
you're going to always bedistracted.
Oh, you know, come down, butyou know he didn't come down.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Right, did you have a great work to do, brother,
because I thought it was worthit.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
No, that's where I am , man, you know.
And let me just say for me,Brian, it's really not about and
I have people call me man,you're doing a good job, man.
Well, man, thank you, you know,I give the praise to God.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't desire no fame or nopublicity, but I just want to
try to position myself to be ahelp, especially with Mission
(19:06):
Mississippi, because I have apassion for this.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Tell me about speaking of Mission Mississippi.
Tell me about what's excitingfor you right now, what gives
you hope, what gives you energyas you think about Mission
Mississippi and what's on thehorizon.
You think about Mission.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Mississippi and what's on the horizon.
What gives me hope and energyabout Mission Mississippi is
what I have a passion for is tosee people come together in the
area of authenticity, in thearea of just being real, to
(19:46):
build healthy relationships forthe betterment of our community.
Until we, you know, gravitatethe mindset that it's not about
our skin color, it's not aboutnotoriety or the positions that
we hold in Christ's real worldand that's what I see in Mission
(20:12):
Mississippi too Cross thosebarriers that have crippled us
for so long yeah, for so longthat, you know, we can really
have a deep conversation and behonest about how we feel and how
this have impacted our lives,that we can pass on to our jury.
(20:36):
And that's why I'm willing toinvest in Mission Mississippi,
because God has given me apassion to really get to know
people that people would reallyget to know me.
And so you know, and I'mthankful for your leadership,
brian, I'm thankful for what you, what you brought to the table,
(20:58):
that many of them came thismorning as you shared your idea,
as you shared your plan, withthe next phases of what you want
to teach us, that we can passit on to teach others.
So that's you know.
I just want to be doingsomething.
Yeah, I don't want to becomestagnant.
(21:18):
Yeah, well.
And I believe in MissionMississippi.
Yeah, you know, from the firstday, when I first met Dolphins,
we were in Grenada.
Wow, that was 20-plus years ago.
Wow, I never thought that, youknow, I would be a part of it
this way, right, but I alwaysdid believe in it.
You know, when they would sendme little newsletters, I'd read
(21:39):
it, put a little donation inthere and said it, you know, and
so, man, I just believe thatthe best is yet to come.
There are better days ahead,amen.
If we could just learn to worktogether.
And, you know, accept the factthat it's, in a sense, it's hard
(22:01):
.
You know, trying to bringpeople together, absolutely, in
a sense it's hard, you know,trying to bring people together,
trying to, you know, I like touse your word pick people's
brains, yeah, but it's also hard.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, it's hard work.
Yes, I love when you say thatthat is not just simply hard
work but, it's hard work.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I love that.
I love that and I'veexperienced that for myself and
I'm thankful, man, that mymindset is open and I try to
invite other people that I talkabout Mission Mississippi.
I share that with peopleeverywhere I go.
You know I'm sharing it with mychurch family and from what you
(22:51):
have shared with us today, ithas illuminated me even farther,
when the plan that you weresharing me about the groups yeah
, you know, man, that's been,you know, so I got to develop.
I'm not just comfortable withyou know, I want to do more.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
You know I want to manage my time.
I guess if I could use thatyeah, I want to manage myself to
, you know, do more in the area,and so, therefore, that you
know we can attain or we canreach more people, Because, like
you said you saw it today,brian I'm surrounded with some
(23:35):
good people.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yes, sir, yes, sir, man, outrageous people, man, you
guys are doing incredible,incredible work in LeFleur
County and, like I said, I'mleaving so richly encouraged and
so grateful to you as the chairof this great local movement,
and to all the others that arecontributing to the work.
(23:57):
I'm leaving incredibly,incredibly encouraged, terry.
And so, yes, we're excitedabout what's happening in
LeFleur County.
We are grateful for all thishappening in LeFleur County and
how Mission Mississippi isplaying an active role in the
healing of not just racialdivides, but cultural, cultural,
(24:17):
cultural divides, ethnicdivides, partisan divides, even,
obviously, in a politicallycharged season like we're in,
with people that are voting fromall different persuasion, cast
their ballots in all thesedifferent directions, and being
(24:38):
able to sit in that room withthat group of Christians and
navigate through that and havethat conversation in a way that
doesn't lead to more harm butleads to healing and leads to
understanding and empathy.
That's at the heart or, at theend of the day, that's what
Mission Mississippi is all about?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Don't think about it.
We share so much in common.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
More in common than we don't.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Absolutely Well, and my desire is to be the feet, the
arms, the eyes, those partsthat will continue to position
(25:20):
this ministry to breathe freelyyeah, not struggling to do it in
a way.
And, of course, you know we'regoing to face all type of
obstacles.
Yes, you know we're going toface things, challenges, just as
David faced Goliath.
(25:41):
Yes, many giants going to come.
Yes, in our way, but I knowthat, trusting God and really
being adamant about the workthat needs to be done and one
thing that you said so bravelywas that I can't do it by myself
(26:03):
.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
No, no, this is teamwork.
This is teamwork.
It's necessary work, but it'steamwork, it's teamwork, it's
teamwork.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
But I'm believing, with your leadership, your
ideals and the things that Godis giving you, along with your
coworkers personally helping youfacilitate in that area, we're
open.
Praise God, we're open.
Yeah, whatever it is that wecan do in the future, things,
(26:33):
we're open.
Praise God, we're open.
Yeah, you know, whatever it isthat we can do in the future,
things, we're open.
And the reason why I say we,because I have a group of people
that can trust me, that I builtrelationship with these, which
is important, yes, sir, which isimportant.
Yes, sir, you know, even in mywork area, brian, one of my main
(26:53):
objectives is and I've beentold well, man, you're the best
planter there is.
But what I tell them, I saywell, I put it this way, I said
I really believe I'm not thebest, but I can do it until he
shows up.
Yeah, yeah, I said maybe do ituntil he show up.
Yeah, yeah, I said maybe dountil he come.
(27:16):
In other words, you ain't goingto tell me to pack up and leave
until he get there.
So, and that's, you know, I'madamant.
But my main objective is, evenin my profession, the first and
foremost, I want to build arelationship with the people
that I'm working for, becausethat's important Absolutely.
They may call me back.
Want to build a relationshipwith the people that I'm working
(27:38):
for, because that's importantAbsolutely.
They may call me back if Ibuild a relationship.
And in fact, brian, if thetruth be told, I work for people
.
They don't want no relationship, they want me to get your work
do your work get away from you,and I have experienced it.
Yes, sir, you know, I've triedto talk to them.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
They didn't really want to talk, just OK, but
relationships, like you said,relationships allow, leave room
for greater work, greater workto be done, and that's my
intention.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Relationships leave room forgreater work to be done.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Mary, you just don't know how thankful I am, man, for
you just to come in and, man toman, I'm telling you, man, I'm
going to get phone calls all day, terry, man, this has been, I'm
going to get phone.
I'm serious, you don't know,I'm going to get phone.
I've been getting texts, I'vebeen getting phone calls.
Man, how did you get thepresident?
How did you get the president?
Speaker 1 (28:23):
But, terry, this has been my pleasure, man, let me
tell you, and my absolute joy,in fact, the privilege has been
all mine to spend this day inLeFleur County with Mississippi.
Lefleur County, terry Williams,you are doing a phenomenal job,
man, I have to praise you andto God be the glory For those
that are listening.
Feel free at any time tosubscribe to our podcast.
(28:45):
You can go to any podcast appand search on Living Reconciled
where you can subscribe, shareand like this episode and any
other episodes that you might belistening to.
It's been great to be withTerry Williams in the LeFleur
County Mission, Mississippigroup this week.
I am Brian Crawford, with myfriend Terry Williams signing
off saying God bless.
(29:07):
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
(29:28):
Thanks again for listening.
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