February 12, 2025 • 56 mins
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What if your financial decisions could reflect your deepest values and faith? In this episode, we sit down with financial advisor Chris McAlpin, who shares his journey from high-stakes finance to faith-driven stewardship. We explore how money, societal values, and personal beliefs shape our sense of contentment and purpose. Chris unpacks biblical principles on wealth, challenges societal views on success, and highlights the role of financial stewardship in social causes like racial reconciliation. Join us as we redefine true wealth—prioritizing wisdom, relationships, and purpose over mere financial gain.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I am your host, brian Crawford,and I am hanging out with my
(00:35):
incredible good friends NettieWinters, austin Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, I'm doing man, I'm being consistent.
I'm still an incredible friendman.
It hadn't changed that category, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Also, how about you, man, you doing good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh yeah, I'm going real well.
No, no issues here, Just justjust pastoring in Columbia,
Mississippi.
That's all I've got going onAwesome.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Awesome and you still are a good friend as well.
So great to have you guys joinus, great for the, for the
audience to listen, the audienceto be listening in.
Just want to give a quick shoutout to our good friends who
sponsor this podcast, folks likeMississippi College and
Anderson United Methodist Church, grace Temple Church,
mississippi State University,real Christian Foundation,
nissan, st Dominic's Hospital,atlas, energy, regis Foundation,
(01:22):
brown Missionary Baptist Church, and then good folks like Ms
Doris Powell, robert Ward andWinters.
Thank you, guys, so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you do weare able to do what we do.
And what Mission Mississippi onLiving Reconciled does is that
we think about the intersectionbetween life, between vocation,
(01:44):
between faith and the work ofreconciliation.
And so we have a guest with ustoday that we're excited to have
that conversation with, mrChris McAlpin.
Chris is a financial advisor,but he's a deeply devoted
Christian.
He received his undergraduatedegree from University of
(02:04):
Mississippi.
He received his MBA fromMississippi College, studied
finance at King's College inLondon hear all about and also
he is a volunteer chaplain at astate prison here in the state
(02:28):
of Mississippi.
So we can't wait to talk toChris and hear about all of
these different things, that areall of these different pots
that he has his hands in, andalso just learn a little bit
about how his life hasintersected as it relates to
faith, vocation andreconciliation.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Chris brother, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
man, I'm good my man Glad to be on.
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Already started enjoying talking to all you guys
.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Brother, we are so so incredibly, incredibly grateful
to have you on and incrediblygrateful that you would give us
a little time to talk to you onthis episode of Living
Reconciled.
Let me jump right in and I'llstart with a quick question to
kind of warm you up a little bit.
But it appears, just kind ofwalking through your bio and
(03:16):
your story, that you've spentquite a number of years thinking
through finance, but it alsolooks like you emphasize
biblical financial management.
Can you give us a little bit ofyour story as to how you ended
up just moving from simplythinking about finance through
just the typical terms andlanguage to moving to a place
(03:39):
where you're thinking aboutbiblical finance and how
Christians can steward theirfinance for the glory of God?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Sure, sure.
So I am just old enough thatearly in my career kind of
stretches back to the old schoolboiler room days, the type of
days where they made movies.
You know about actually onename boiler room, or the Wolf of
Wall Street or the two WallStreet movies, all that kind of
stuff.
So I remember reading that aHollywood director said said ben
diesel boiler room.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
How?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
about that that's right in the greatest movie
speech.
It's completely unbiblical.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
But uh uh, ben affleck pulling the keys out of
his head yes, money.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
you say money came by happiness.
Look at the smile on his face.
I completely cleaned that up.
That's not how he said it.
So I'm old enough to stretchback to those days.
I remember my dad was acarpenter, had a ranch
construction crew, was acontractor.
My mom was a math teacher.
(04:42):
I remember getting my first jobas a theme winner as a stock
broker's assistant when I was incollege and the language inside
there was so foul I thought Iwas still on a construction crew
.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I was like man, I'm at home.
That was like that's how I grewup, it's all right.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And as I got out I got out of school and met my
wife God started changing mylife.
I realized one that didn't lastvery well, and two, I had no
idea the depth of how well thatdoes not last.
I do now, but I knew that I hadto have.
(05:16):
I knew that I needed to workwith people with more money than
me to be successful, and commonsense told me that, no matter
how much education I had, thatjust didn't make sense.
They had more money than me.
Why should this20-something-year-old kid tell
them what to do with their money?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
I thought okay, the Bible knowseverything.
That's where all the source ofwisdom is.
(05:37):
I started studying everything Icould get my hands on about
what the Bible said about money,fell in love with the topic,
because the Bible has about2,300 or so verses on money,
where a lot of Jesus is.
About 11 out of his 40 parables.
40 or so parables speak tomoney or use money as the topic,
(05:58):
and so it's a topic that Godknew would just chase our hearts
and chase our minds Everybodywants to be a billionaire.
Everybody wants to be abillionaire.
Yes, and we live in a society.
At every socioeconomic level,money means something, money
means you're important, moneymeans you're somebody, and so it
(06:19):
just chases our hearts.
It always runs after our hearts, and so now, 20-something years
into my career, I still see itEven more honestly.
The older I get, the more itbreaks my heart that I want to
just teach on this topic moreand more, because we're just a
society that's soaked in wealth.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
My goodness, I'm a lot of you soaked in wealth, man
.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
At the end of this podcast, are we going to be
soaked in wealth with top 10 and77?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
of americans are worried about their financial
(07:10):
future.
So it you know, nate.
Our problem is is that wealways know somebody that's
wealthier than we are butcompared to the rest of the
world rest of the world'slooking at us going you guys are
like the richest people in theworld and y'all are arguing over
the last 10 bucks.
You know, because we all knowsome before you know.
We all know who Bill Gates is,or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk,
(07:32):
and yet to somebody else in theworld, there is much of a
wealth gap between us and them,as between Musk or Gates or
Zuckerberg and us, musk or Gatesor Zuckerberg and us.
And so in our society, we knowpeople well, dude, and that's
tough because we're alwayscomparing ourselves to other
people.
But to the rest of the world Imean, if you live in some of the
(07:54):
third world countries, you'rejust surviving for the next meal
maybe, but you don't have themedia that we have to know what
you're comparing yourself to.
So it's hard on us mentally andspiritually.
But yeah, you're right, nettie,at the end of this we're all
going to be soaked in wealth.
We're just going to add a zeroto the net worth there.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
It's funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Chris, I've been more and more excited about this
podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Look, everybody loves to have me on their podcast.
For that reason, that's right.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah, man.
It's funny you mentioned this,chris, because literally I've
been reflecting.
I was telling Nettie, beforethe podcast started, that I've
been sitting in Luke 6 for alittle bit, preaching through it
(08:39):
in my church, and of coursethat's where the sermon on the
plane, the Beatitudes, and Jesussays blessed are the poor,
blessed are the hungry, blessedare those that weep, blessed are
those that are reviled for mynamesake.
And so you have poverty, hunger, suffering and hatred for my
namesake.
Right, he says hey, you can beblessed.
If you're in me.
(09:00):
You can find blessing even in,even in those experiences In me.
You can find blessing, even inthose experiences.
But of course, the only way wetypically believe we can find
blessing is in being rich, rich,full, entertained and
well-liked, and that's the onlyway we can process blessing in a
(09:29):
world where 71% of the worldlives on less than $10 a day and
50% of the world lives on lessthan $7.50 a day.
And so there has to be a truthto this reality that you can
find joy outside of what webelieve we can find joy in.
But of course we are soconditioned, like you said,
because this is the water thatwe swim in and this is just kind
(09:51):
of part of our climate and partof our environmental condition
where we believe this is theonly way we can experience it.
And I wrestle with that even inmy own life.
And so it's funny that we'rehaving this conversation with
you today, because it's verymuch timely and I think it
shapes so much of how we liveand how we breathe and how we
operate as Americans and asChristians in America in
particular.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
We all have a different perspective.
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Excuse me, no, I was just going to say you know, when
I was growing up I was happy,excited and just be around
people, connect with folk, andthen one day somebody told me I
was poor man and all myhappiness went away.
Yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Just, I was reading an article about an old story
from Jackson, and I'm not goingto name the same name of the
street, but but, but it was.
It was an old gangster that wasbeing interviewed and he said
the exact same thing.
He said, man, I had a greatchildhood, didn't know it was
different from anybody else,until I got a little bit older
and realized we're poor.
Yeah, you know Right.
(10:54):
But, brian, to your point,we're conditioned and this is
Christ followers too.
This is good, christ-loving,people-loving people.
They spend five days a week atwork and one day a week at
church, and maybe Wednesdaynight at church and maybe
occasionally volunteer forsomething on Saturday.
But that five days, eight hoursa day, 40 hours a week or more.
(11:15):
And it's saying this is how youwork to get that next promotion
, that next raise, to put morein the 401k, and this is how I'm
investing my 401k and I'm doinggreat, and I want to retire at
55 instead of 65.
And all of a sudden, you startseeing all these different
machinations, since we getmatured financially by society
(11:35):
more than we get maturedfinancially by the Bible, and so
it's very hard we readsomething in the Bible, like all
the scriptures that you justsaid, or you go into what Jesus
teaches in the Sermon on theMount on money.
What he's saying, don't worryabout it.
Like, don't worry about it.
And we're like, what do youmean, don't worry about it?
Aren't we supposed to work?
Well, yes, what do you mean,don't worry about it?
(11:56):
Shouldn't we save for thefuture?
Well, yes, but what?
So accustomed to worrying thatwe don't know how to?
Not?
It is a foreign concept toactually trust God with our
provision.
And it's really hard, it'sreally foreign when a financial
advisor starts teaching you thatbecause they're like Chris,
(12:19):
aren't you supposed to make memoney?
Like, yeah, but yeah,absolutely, the Bible actually
gives me different instructions.
You know well, I can make, knowand other instructions as well,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No.
It's funny because it's like,yes, there's a good end.
This is not a, this is not an.
When I advocate to say, no, youshould just kind of burn all of
your dollars.
This is not.
This is not what we'readvocating.
This is not what we'readvocating.
There's a right perspective thathas to be established, because
if you don't have the rightperspective, then it doesn't
(12:48):
matter how little you have orhow much you have.
You're still going to live inruin and you're going to still
live in spiritual poverty andspiritual bankruptcy.
Yeah, yeah, can you uh makesure that my life is secure?
(13:17):
How can you make sure that,that, that, that I got security
and that I can uh, and that Ican swim, and swim in money like
Nettie Winters?
So, to those Christian leadersthat are coming to you on a
day-to-day basis and you'reoperating from this different
kind of conviction and thisdifferent kind of perspective,
(13:40):
how do you help them see theirmoney and their financial
influence that they have as atool for not just wealth
building, but for kingdombuilding and for even matters
like reconciliation andimpacting communities?
What role do you play inhelping Christian leaders see
(14:02):
their money for something biggerthan themselves?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Now, Chris, before you jump in, I want to clarify
something.
Brian said he's talking aboutNettie Winter soaking in money.
I want to be clear that if youwork for a Christian nonprofit,
you don't gain wealth.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, yes and amen, yes and amen to that Nettie, I'm
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Chris would recommend that to someone coming here Do
not work for a Christiannon-profit.
You're going to hell with it.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
No, no, You're storing up wealth in heaven.
You're storing up wealth inheaven.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Paul Amen, I'm not about to make some eggs.
Man Make some eggs.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, that's right, yeah,yeah, but y'all are just
following what Paul said toTimothy Struck those who are
rich in this world not to bearrogant, not to trust their
money, trust God and store upwealth in heaven.
And Brian, so that happens itreally to that Christian leader.
(15:03):
Everybody goes through seasonsof life that God uses to cause
you to listen to him.
Some of those seasons for somepeople are a little bit less
painful.
Some of those seasons for someof us some of us are a little
hardheaded, maybe it's a littlemore painful.
And when that business leader'sgoing through that season is
when we get to have the bestconversation, because they've
(15:25):
been successful and that successdoesn't satisfy them.
And that is when they start toask questions, especially as a
Christ follower, of what?
What am I called to do?
What does God want me to do?
What doors are opening up forme to serve others?
How can I use my business toinvest in God's kingdom?
And they start praying throughand they start talking through
(15:48):
and they have conversations.
I get the privilege of havingconversations with them and
other leaders in their liveshave conversations with them,
and that's when they reallystart to see a change in their
life, and we see this in theBible, how God uses different
seasons through His people inthe Bible, and we see this in
history, that God's doing thisas well.
I think that's the biggest keythat at that point I get to say,
(16:10):
well, hey, what's God makingyou excited about?
What ministries and what'sbroken in the world that you
just like man?
I want to see this fixed Likego there, cause that's where
God's moving you to go.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right you know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Go ahead, alston.
Oh no, I was just about to askbecause I think God moving us
where to go.
I love what Paul says inPhilippians 4, 11 through 13,.
When he says I have learned tobe content whatever the
circumstances, he's learned thesecret behind it.
His passages remind us thatwealth itself is neither the
(16:49):
problem nor it's the solution,but it's really just where we
place our trust.
It's where we have the love ofour money.
So I'm looking at this.
So how do we coach people to nothave that love of money?
How do we coach people to movebeyond where their hearts are?
To the point, because you canhave the covetousness in your
(17:12):
heart if you don't have anymoney and you see that as the
end all be, all of all yoursolutions, and you're not
content having that, and thenyou can have a tremendous amount
of wealth.
And then you can have atremendous amount of wealth, and
(17:34):
then you can be just assumed bythe need to either preserve
what you have or to expand onwhat you have, and the means by
which you acquire either ofthose can cause real pain.
Because that's, you know, withthe love of money, it's a, it's
a lack of contentment.
So how, how would you, howwould you coach people, uh, in
those situations, those who bothhave none, and then both those
who have a tremendous amounts,um, but uh, but are continuing
(17:58):
to have that sense of drive andthat, that, that lack of
contentment?
I'm not, I'm not saying thateverybody who has ambition and
drive are doing it for wrongreasons.
Some people can have ambitionand drive and they're utilizing
their funds in an incrediblysmart, savvy way that helps the
rest of society and helps reallyjust the rest of our species in
(18:22):
tremendous biblical ways.
But at the same time, you dohave that love of money, which
is the rest of our species and,uh, in tremendous biblical ways,
but but at the same time you dohave that love of money which
is the root of all evil.
I believe is what Timothy uhcalls it.
What was that?
What was that passage?
Is it?
Uh, I think 36.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Chapter six yeah, just a few verses before.
He says instruct those who arerich in this world.
He does.
He says the love of money,fruit of all sorts of evil.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think it's verse 10 or something like that.
So, it's just like wow, that'sthe root of all evil, right?
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I think there's two things, and you just mentioned
Philippians 4, but inPhilippians 3, we see Paul where
his ambitions come out.
So Paul was extremely drivenand extremely ambitious and we
see that with God's men andwomen all through the Bible.
You typically got written aboutor you wrote a book because you
were ambitious for somethingand it had to do with God's
(19:11):
kingdom in some way.
But I think that we find ourlove of money in.
I can sum it up in two areas,and it's we either find our
significance in money or wealth,wealth creation, success.
In some form.
We find our security and sowhen someone's finding their
(19:32):
significance, especially thatbusiness owner, they got to sell
that business for an X multipleor they have X revenue, x
profit or the X amount in theirinvestment account, x amount
under 401k.
However, at every socioeconomiclevel people find their
significance.
They become somebody with moneyin a dollar figure.
(19:53):
And the second one is thatsecurity, and I use this example
Security is in what form?
That arrogant heiress that getsto just buy people, that
arrogant heiress that just getsto have her way in life because
she can afford to get her way,period, and we'll use the word
(20:14):
scared, because there's nothingwrong with retiring, but that
scared retiree that isconstantly worried about
themselves outliving their money.
There's a wise side to that,but there's an enormously
dangerous side to that.
I'm talking about the dangerousside.
Both of that arrogant heiressand that scared retiree are
(20:36):
using money for their securityas opposed to the Lord.
I'm teaching a class right now.
It's interesting.
I googled, excuse me, I usedGPT for interesting.
I Googled, excuse me, I used achat, gpt for this, and I wanted
to know what was the list.
Why does money have some typeof power over us?
I'm pulling exactly what thissays.
It says that everything that itcomes from that our survival,
(21:04):
our choices, our overallwell-being that money gives us
we're supposed to look to Godfor, not money.
And that's what, in the Sermonon the Mount, jesus is talking
about it there in chapter six,matthew chapter six, where he is
saying all of these things thatwe worry about, look to God,
trust God for it, don't trustyour money for it.
And I think Austin, that is atits core.
(21:26):
When people start loving money,ok, they start fighting big
wars or street fights, ok,that's, that's where that comes
from.
It's that significance orsecurity.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
So he's, a seeker from God.
What about gold?
Gold, gold, yeah.
What about gold?
Yeah, what about it?
You said not in your money, butin God, but as a goal between
money and God, so you can movefrom money to go, like people,
to now.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You can move from money to gold.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, well, you know people are concerned about uh in
in your business, uh many ofyour counterparts or everybody
you want to put that, orrecommend people getting gold.
Yeah, no, in terms of that uhmore security and and and.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
All kidding aside, though, I'll tell you how, how
fickle even that recommendationis.
I remember doing my internshipin the nineties and I asked to
buy gold and I remember themanaging director of the firm
said son, gold's for jewelry, gobuy your girlfriend something.
In other words, we didn't evenstudy it, I didn't know any
better, but at that point, forthe last 15 or 16 years, gold
(22:35):
hadn't made a return.
Well now, if you held gold forthe last five years, you've made
a lot.
I don't know the percentage offthe top of my head, but if
you've had it since COVID,you've made a lot of money in
that period.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I got this question and I've asked my financial guy
and he said he doesn't have ananswer.
So if the dollar is going to beworth nothing, how are you
going to get the money out ofthe gold?
Help me understand what thegold is going to do that my
money won't do, because themoney is no good.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Then what am I going to do with the gold when I can't
sell the gold?
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
I'm not going to say the dollaris not going to be worthless in
your lifetime unless Jesuscomes back or we lose a very big
war.
But you're exactly right, it's.
What currency is the gold thatyou own denominated in?
And if you're holding gold athome, what good is that going to
(23:28):
do if we're in such anapocalyptic environment you're,
you're afraid of something andyou're trying to solve it with
something that, if you justthink a little bit, it's not
going to solve it.
I tell clients a lot of timeswhen they asked me that then
they should I store up gold andsilver?
No, go buy beans and ammoActually.
Up gold and silver?
No, go buy beans and ammoActually don't.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Did he say beans and ammo.
Beans and ammo, yeah, Beans andammo yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And then I say in all seriousness let's open up the
book of Revelation and let'shave a conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
You know, I think to your point.
I mean just what you've beendescribing, chris.
It all makes sense.
Even get back to Matthew 6.
It makes so much sense whythere's this warning from Christ
personalized effect that hegives to money, that that is,
that that is an idol, that thatthat operates in a way, that
(24:32):
that is, that is, you know,above and beyond some of the
idols of our hearts that we maythink of right and that, and
that is like I said, it'spersonalized in a sense.
Um, because so much of what weare driven by, whether we
realize it or not.
Getting back to your pointabout the ideal, security and
(24:52):
status, all of that is tied intohow we view money versus how we
view God, and so it's just anincredible, incredible thing to
process and think on thing toprocess and think on, even how
we identify ourselves and how wesee ourselves in terms of the
money that we accumulate or haveor in fact don't have.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Because some people, some scholars, say when he said,
for the love of money is theroot of all evil, right?
Well, those that don't have itis loving it too much, right?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Agreed, but get agreed, yeah, but agreed does it
does?
And Nanny, I'm going to comeback to that point in just a
second, but I want to go to whatBrian just said, when Jesus
talked about you cannot serveGod and mammon mammon that word
and there's a lot of scholarlydebate on this, but I believe,
based on both what I see inscripture and what I see in the
world that I work in, that he'stalking about the spirit of
(25:50):
wealth.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
The Greeks would have called this spirit this false
God Pluto's.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
The Romans would have called this false God Pluto.
We named their ninth planet.
Then there's some debate as towhether or not that's a planet
or not, but that's for anotherpodcast.
But that spirit of wealth isone that just kind of seeps in,
and this is not.
I don't think he's just talkingabout serving money in and of
(26:16):
itself, because money in and ofitself is just a tool, and if we
just can treat it like a tooland put it in its place, it's
good, it's when it startsbecoming our significance, it
starts becoming our security,and that's what I meant earlier.
You know there is a time youshould save money, you should
invest money.
That's very clear in 2Corinthians 9.
I can show you other places inthe Bible.
(26:37):
But being wise with our moneyis just treating money as a tool
, using it as our significanceand our security, where we get
our success, our security again,our status, from it.
Now we're talking about thespirit of mammon and that's when
it starts to infiltrate ourlife.
But, nanny, what you were justsaying where, yes, there are
(26:59):
some people that don't havemoney think a lot about money,
but people that do have a lot ofmoney worry about it in
completely different ways therewas a member of the Vanderbilt
family I believe it was about100, 125 years ago that said
$200 million is enough to killany man.
(27:20):
I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
And that's $200 million 100,125 years ago.
That's a lot of money today,right, like that's a lot of
money today, right, $200 millionis a lot of money.
Now, can you imagine that,having the responsibility for
$200 million and the weight?
And I know a lot of peoplelisten to this and go like I
can't imagine it, but I'd liketo have that problem.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I get it.
I would too.
You're talking to one here, man, I'd love to have a problem.
Yeah, I'm like give me thatproblem.
Yeah, give me that problem, I'dgive it all up to him at
Mission Mississippi, that'sright, get after him, man, he'll
manage it.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, yeah, give it to.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Brian, give it to Brian.
No-transcript.
(28:30):
It really starts to break downa lot.
Every advisor you work talk to,you're worried about them
trying to to sell you somethingor, uh, abuse you in some way to
profit them.
That's every conversationyou're in now, and so you're
constantly with this group ofpeople that you hope they are
(28:53):
looking after your best interest.
And now, all of a sudden, youfeel like you're being babysat
all the time.
You can't just go be a regularperson somewhere, and that's not
if you're a celebrity, but youhave a lot of those same kind of
problems.
So so, yeah it it both it it itdoes.
This money has this weird holdAlmost.
(29:15):
That's why the Bible talksabout it all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, but you, you know, in that light, you know, I
, I, a few years ago they did,they done some documentaries on
people that won the lotto, right, you, a few years ago they'd
done some documentaries onpeople who won the lotto, right?
You know, one lady won thelotto and they said to her well,
what are you going to do?
She said I'm going to go get mea double wide.
So you know, different peoplehave different expectations of
(29:37):
how to do it.
But they went back years laterand interviewed these people.
In many instances, the peoplethat won the big money were
worse off when they went backthan they were before they won
the money.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
It's that strange.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Even some of them ended up in jail and other bad
things happened to them becausethe money is like wow, it became
their god, and too often thathappens with us in terms of you
know the gambling industry willtell you how wonderful it is to
pull that lever, win all thismoney, but they never tell you
about the other side of the coinor how many people pull that
(30:17):
lever and kill themselves ordone some other crazy thing
because they want to get richquick.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
One thing I'm thinking about,especially with gambling, where
we give away our money, andthroughout our conversation thus
far we've talked about howmoney can either be used for
kingdom work or really just anidol that grips our hearts, that
God calls his people to releasethat grip on their wealth, is
(30:46):
through tithing.
I mean, you see that throughoutthe scriptures, really even the
Old Testament emphasizes thissignificantly.
You have Genesis 14, 19 and 20,when Abraham gives a tenth of
his spoils to Meshulzadek, who'sthe priest of God the most high
, long before even the law wasgiven to tell us to do it.
Leviticus 27, 30 is whentithing is formalized into law
(31:11):
for Israel, where God declaresthat a tithe of everything from
the land belongs to the Lord andit's holy to the Lord.
It wasn't about givingnecessarily the temple, but it
was about acknowledging thateverything we have ultimately
belongs to God.
I mean even Malachi, 3.8.10,.
It says you know, we see Goddirectly challenging his people
asking will a man rob God?
(31:33):
Yet you rob me.
And he's telling them to bringthe full tithe into the
storehouse and just the promisesof just open floodgates of
heaven when they do so.
The message is very clearWithholding from God reflects a
heart that does not trust him.
You know, I mean especially,you know, touching on the
aspects of gambling, which is wefreely give away money,
(31:55):
probably far more than a tenthof our income, those who are
gripped by that type of thing.
And yet we have Christians whostruggle with tithing, you know,
often out of fear forfinancials.
Skepticism about what'simportant, we see it throughout
the scripture.
Even Mark 12 says in the NewTestament about the, when he
(32:19):
commends the widow's offering,not because she gave much,
because she gave sacrificially,not because she gave much
because she gave sacrificially.
So I mean, we have Christiansin our midst who are more
willing to be sacrificial, let'ssay, in the practice of
gambling than they are in thepractice of tithing, but yet
they lose more through gambling,but it's yet in the pursuit of
(32:40):
that higher wealth.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, I mean, austin, let's not even rigid um,
regulated just to the orconfided to, you know, gambling
and and things of that nature.
But even I was just, you know,christians that are that are
more committed, you know to, toinvestment, you know, oh yeah,
investment in stocks and bondsand things of that nature.
Christians that are morecommitted to commerce or not
commerce, but you knowentertainment, you know, so we
have, you know, two dozen, twodozen, you know, uh, streaming
(33:11):
profiles in terms of netflix,hulu, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But you know, but we're, we maybe rich in entertainment but
poor in our, you know, in oursacrifices for kingdom you know.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
So there's like so many different ways to you know
to to eat that yeah, I noticednobody.
Y'all really don't want tostart meddling and say that
nobody's spending money on, likestate Ole Miss and southern
football or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Oh, we can throw that out there.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
You want listeners to stay.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Kill the fee, kill the fee Kill, the fee Kill the
fee.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Oh, I was about to double down alongside Chris on
that one man.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, take off, austin, get on it.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I'll get on it with you Listen, man, the people I
was like, let's talk about thefootball.
Yeah, the people that get ridof.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I grew up.
I do not want to hear thatconversation there, man yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
I went to Mississippi College, Chris, so I was just
like, yeah, football isn't.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
It depends on when you're there now it depends on
when you're there.
There was a time that therewere some studs that played at
that school.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Now, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right you
got a real question guys yeah,let me ask you.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Let me ask you a really really, really big
question.
That's been kind of gripping mesince we've had this
conversation and we and we'rekind of rounding the turn here,
so I really want to make sure Iget it in.
But you know, we've beentalking about biblical
stewardship and we've beentalking about, you know, matters
of the heart in terms of how wethink about money and how we
steward it and for kingdompurposes.
(34:35):
Where do you see financialwisdom, financial stewardship or
biblical stewardship?
Where do you see itintersecting in our work of
reconciliation and racialhealing?
What are some ways in which youthink this lands on the work of
racial healing, reconciliation,connecting communities across
(35:01):
these dividing lines?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
All right, I think that's in a few ways and it's
not financial only.
We see a lot of the OldTestament teaching where the
teaching leads to sharing a meal, sitting down and sharing a
meal with somebody.
In ancient times, what that hadto do with Brian.
If you and I shared a mealtogether, that meant you were
(35:24):
introducing me to your friends,to your network.
Okay, and I think that inracial reconciliation in
Mississippi especially but thisis true for all over the nation
that working with ministriesthat connect resources from
resourced areas, okay, to theunresourced areas and I'm using
(35:45):
the word specifically resources,not just money, because I think
of resources as money, yes, buta person's time, a person's
skills, a person's network.
I remember studying this yearsago in different poverty
alleviation ministries and oneperson that worked in a
particular area of the worldsaid we have this old idea give
(36:05):
a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him
for a lifetime.
Well, when you work in ministryin different contexts, you
might find a fisherman who's abetter fisherman than you.
He just needs to ride to thepond, right?
He just needs a little bit ofmoney to buy bait one time Okay.
So a lot of times, those withresources show up and say I'm
(36:26):
just going to write a check andI'm going to solve all the
world's problems.
No, you're probably not Allright.
You may need to show up inracial reconciliation.
We need to recognize theunder-resourced areas and the
over-resourced areas in thestate and we can spend time
looking at the history as to whywe have rich and poor in the
state and that matters a lot,okay and recognize those that
(36:50):
have money and have wealth needto recognize that you were main
reason that you have money andyou have wealth was that you
were born into it.
Okay, you were born in theUnited States.
You were born in a wealthy,safe, relatively peaceful area
that you could go to school at agood school, you could learn
and you had the opportunity toget a good career whether that
(37:12):
was a job or you own your ownbusiness and you were blessed to
be born in that area, and somepeople were not as blessed as
you, and so we're sharing ourresources.
Going back to 1 Timothy 6 there, when Paul says instruct those
who are rich in this world, andone of those things I would
instruct those who are rich inthis world is to take the lead
(37:35):
because you're leading from aposition of strength to
reconcile across racial linesright, white, black, brown.
I know we use the word race,but when you actually look in
the bible there's one.
There's peoples.
You know like we have differentskin colors, but there's only
one race, okay we identify byethnicity, it's not by race.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yes, sir, there you go.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yes, there you go, there you go absolutely that's
right, it's, it's so, so, so,across different ethnicities,
and say, all right, you're madein in God's image and God's
blessed me this way.
How can I help you?
And but you got to go.
You can't just show up andwrite a check.
And then there's times thatit's good to write a check and
get out of the way.
Ok, to those who can write acheck.
There's times to write a checkand get out of the way, no doubt
(38:20):
about it.
But a lot of times it is betterto show up, build a relationship
and share more than yourcheckbook.
But share your book ofresources.
Okay, who do I know who's in mynetwork?
How can you know my skills inbusiness?
Can I help you build a business?
And in all of those areas youcan tell I get really excited
(38:42):
about this.
But you still got to go sitdown that one-on-one and build
that relationship.
And I think that's where youreally start to go sit down that
one-on-one and build thatrelationship.
And I think that's where youreally start to see racial
reconciliation and that becauseit changes hearts and minds on
both sides of that, of thatconversation.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
We like to think of it.
Don't send your check.
Bring your check, come withyour check.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
I like that.
I'm going to borrow that.
Can I borrow that?
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I just made it up while you were talking.
I like that.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
All right, I'm going to keep it hidden every time I
say it.
Danny Winters once told me.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
But as a ministry leader, I always like to say but
even if you don't come, pleaseyou can send your check.
Send your check.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
If you can't make it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
If you can't make it.
Brian, I think you know y'allasked me this and some of the
information before we got on thepodcast together.
You know what changed a lot ofmy view, and that is when I
started working as a volunteerin the state penitentiary system
and I started seeing how unjustour justice system is.
I just didn't know and itwasn't like I grew up with a lot
of money, I just grew upregular work, you know
(39:51):
middle-class kids, you know, andjust you start to see.
You look at somebody and goyou're in here for what?
And I'm thinking crap, you gotto be kidding me and I've been
going in there now for 13, 14years, so I've heard that story
heartbreaking too many times togo.
(40:12):
Man, this is messed up andthat's not an indictment on
people in the justice system.
That's not what it is Rightright, absolutely.
It's not as wholesome and justof a system as we like to
pretend it is sometimes.
It's not at all.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
All systems have humans behind them, and so
they're prone to failure, eventhe best system.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, the best system has that, but it's interesting
to me how there's a group in oursociety that sees that without
even thinking about it Becauseof the position, the plays how
they grew up, their background,their color, their ethnicity,
(40:56):
all of these things.
They can see that.
And then when they bump intoChris and Chris said well, you
know God, I had to go to jail tosee this God.
In a sense, I got locked up tojail to see this.
Not in the sense I got locked upin jail, but I went there.
And so you see, from the otherside perspective, and it goes
back to what you said you couldaccomplish that without having
(41:17):
to go to jail, but it's goodthat you went to jail.
Now you have a greaterperspective.
But if we start theconversation, we start the
conversation, we start thecultural relationships of
understanding.
Everybody don't see things thesame way that you do it.
So it's like I usually havethese conversations and people
come from the same community.
Right, let's just say, let'suse Punta Talk.
(41:39):
I got three people in the roomfor Punta Talk, two of them are
white and one is black, twowhites in there talking about
how wonderful it was to beraised in Punta Top County, in
Punta Top, mississippi, and thisblack person got tears
streaming down their face, man,and they can't wait to grab
those two white people and say,like you didn't know over across
that track how it was, I can'tbelieve it, you just ignored us.
(42:01):
You're not ignorant.
Was?
I can't believe it, you justignored us, you're not ignorant,
you just ignored us.
And so when I say conversation,it takes a lot of time and
energy to help people fromacross the tracks, on whichever
side.
You want to understand theother side, how they live, and
so forth, and you think theywould know, but they don't,
nuh-uh.
And.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Eddie, you're right that you.
I was thinking about thatbefore we got on and how to
articulate it the way you justarticulated it, because I think
everybody thinks the quoteunquote other side of this
conversation knows and thatthey're being willfully ignorant
.
Yourself into the conversationwith a person on the other side
(42:46):
of the conversation you realizethey're they're not being
willfully eager, that they, thatthey, they have they wipe.
Uh, I found this in politics tobe true.
Someone used this.
You know, like the person thathas a different agreement, like
like they have a, they'rewanting to get to the same goal,
they're just taking a differentroute and oftentimes in racial
context, it's like, like man, Ididn't know I'd have had a
(43:09):
different opinion, if I knew.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And all rich folks are not bigots, right?
No, Right.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Absolutely, that's right, that's right, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
You know you guys to your point.
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Chris, go ahead.
No, I was going to say I'msorry, go ahead, go ahead, chris
, go ahead.
And I want to make sure Ichange it in myself or God
change it in me and change it inmy family, and to be able to
say that honestly, without theunneeded I'm trying to think of
(43:56):
the word I'm looking for, butwithout unnecessary guilt
falling on you for what'shappened in a lineage, decades
or generations before you.
I think a lot of times, danny,when people hear the word you
know that bigotry on wealthypeople, and they go well, I'm
not a bigot.
Well, hang on, nobody justcalled you one.
(44:17):
Just slow down.
Let's be honest.
Because if we recognize thatChrist has forgiven me and you
call me.
I know you did just that, butif you call me a bigot, I'm
going to go, man, that ain't theworst thing I've ever been.
I ain't the worst thing.
I've ever been called and I'mforgiven by Christ.
So let me face this honestlyand then let's do something
about it to make the worldaround us better.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, all rich folks are not bigot.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
All poor people are not robbing the bigots.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
That's right, right, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
We have this balance of understanding that you know.
We just need to educateourselves about each other, and
you know to your point, nettie.
I find that so important justwithin the blood relative family
.
That has to happen later onacross the the cartel lines get
(45:08):
it?
Speaker 4 (45:09):
can I, can I just cross the railroad tracks and
have the conversation it's alittle bit easier than sometimes
across the dinner table atthanksgiving, I mean one.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
One of the things I've noticed that's, you know,
that's almost the enemy ofgetting to know each other, and
I think it lies at the heart ofbigotry to a degree is that when
people have done the work tounderstand other persons who
have had radically differentlife experiences than them, and
then, even on the other side ofcomplexity, they still reject,
(45:41):
necessarily, the language that'sused because so many different
people, groups, attempt toinstill within society, either
codified through law or cultureor anything.
And this is not a left wingthing, it's not a right wing
thing, it's a human thing.
And I think this is where theheart of bigotry lies is when we
attempt to inflict upon othersour understanding, so much so
(46:04):
that it precludes anyone elsefrom having an alternative view.
And what that does is precludesthose persons who have gone
through the work to understandand then rejected the language
that is trying to be instilledwithin the culture and within
the society, whether that isleft-wing language or right-wing
language, right-wing languagethat's, it's still bigotry,
(46:26):
because you're trying to inflictupon others how they should
live, how they should think, howthey should be, even if they
don't understand, or even ifthey understand where you're
coming from, but also haverejected the oversimplification
that we reduce our experiencesto.
Does that make sense?
It's kind of a very heady andabstract way of talking about it
, because I didn't want to bringup one example over the other,
(46:47):
because I wanted to say this isa human problem and it and it
lies at the heart of of whatbigotry is, because bigotry
knows no uh socioeconomic ordemographic, uh boundaries.
It's uh, it's because any, anyhuman can be a bigot.
A woman can be bigotry, it canbe a bigot towards men, men can
be bigots towards women, whitescan be bigots towards blacks and
(47:10):
blacks can be bigots towardswhites.
And I think that that's asignificant point that we
sometimes don't appreciate inour culture as much.
But sorry, I don't know ifthere's a question in there.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I think Benjamin Watson simplified that in his
book is that it's not a skinproblem, it's a sin problem.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely you know, the one
thing that stood out to me, evenas we were having this
conversation, guys, is you knowwe were talking about.
You know?
Don't, don't just sing yourcheck, Bring your check.
Again, we affirm that if youcan't not bring your check, you
can still send it.
But but we want, we want you,we want you to bring it.
(47:49):
Yeah, yeah, we want to clarify,but, but, with that said, I
think I think underneath thatthere's something to be said
about the assumptions that wesometimes make that the people
that have the most financialwealth are the ones that are
bringing wealth.
But what we've articulated,chris, even in this dialogue, is
(48:10):
that you bringing your check isalso an opportunity for you to
accumulate wealth, becausewealth comes in the experiences
of rubbing shoulders with peoplewho don't look like you, who
don't come from the samebackgrounds as you, the same
experiences as you.
There's a wealth of wisdom thatcomes even if they don't have
the same wealth financially.
There's a wealth of wisdom thatcomes through those
(48:32):
relationships and thoseexperiences and even, possibly,
skill sets that they're bringingin and all these different
opportunities.
And so, for those that thereare times in which the people
with financial wealth as well asthe people without financial
wealth think that the personthat's bringing the check is the
one bringing all the wealth.
But there needs to be more ofan understanding that know that
(48:54):
we're sharing wealth, that thatthat the person that's bringing
the check has an opportunity toreceive wealth as well.
To receive wealth as well.
I think about the fact that I goevery second Saturday.
Our church now goes every secondSaturday to the Vicksburg
convalescent home and we talkabout all the time regularly
(49:15):
that there is so much that weare gaining in this experience
that could they be gainingsomething in this experience of
us being present and spendingtime and playing goofy trivia
games and all that kind of stuffand praying together and giving
out gifts and candy and allthat?
Yeah, I'm sure there's somebenefit for them.
But, my goodness, the abilityto sit with people who have
(49:38):
lived lives that have farexceeded my eyes and just hear
their stories and glean fromtheir wisdom.
There is so much wealth that Ileave with after I've spent that
time with them, and and and Ithink that's really at the heart
of what we're sharing when wetalk about sharing lives with
one another that our wealth isbeyond just the money that we
(50:00):
have in our pockets.
And if we could ever understandthat, then we can understand
that there's so much wealth thatpeople are bringing, even if
they aren't bringing any money100% 100%.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I think that was a clear example of what Chris said
about him going to prison,exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And that's exactly what brought him to my life.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
That had built so much wealth into his life.
You know, I like to think aboutit like this as a person that
had to recruit board members fornon-profit, I always think
about.
You want to find people thatgot the capacity to work, some
that have wisdom and some thathave wealth, but it's the
balance of all that that bringsit together to make the thing
work.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
And so as we accumulate.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
We accumulate all three by our work, by our
relationships, so that we canfully benefit.
I think so often, chris andmost people see it in wealth,
but I see this as that God hasso much to offer us through all
of these channels of our work,of wisdom and what we gain in
(51:03):
aging and growing anddevelopment, that we can benefit
from the full expressionexperience that God wants us to
have, and go way beyond money.
And I'll leave it at that.
That's kind of like my opinion.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Well, and I think that when we focus on money and
I'm going to say in any men arethe worst at this.
It's OK, we all mean success isthat, that, that number, that
that defining number.
That means success to us, andso we're going to spend 30 or 40
(51:38):
years driving towards thisnumber and along the way we
build some really cool things,but we miss out on relationships
and we miss out on the wealthof different experiences.
And I'm not talking abouttaking a vacation, I'm talking
about going and sitting down ina prison and watching the Super
Bowl.
I went with guys, watched oneof the college playoff games and
(52:00):
just sat there and watched thefootball game.
We didn't talk about scripture.
We prayed for the food beforethe pizza and just sat there and
watched the football game with.
We didn't talk about scripture,we prayed for the food before
the pizza and just sat there andwatched football.
You know, and there's times thatI have, easily they're one of
my favorite groups to go watch aball game with and I do hope to
get to go watch the Super Bowlwith them here in a few days.
(52:21):
And so, yeah, you're right, butyou just miss so many of those
relationships.
There's just so many differentthings the world has to offer
that God is offering in ourlifetime that we're missing by
focusing just on money andmoney's just a tool a lot of
times you take along with you.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, I think you're right about the men, because the
women enjoy the relationship,the friendship, the fellowship.
You know, sometimes we can losea friend and it's like, okay,
it's a lot more out there.
You know, it may be a bump inthe road a little bit, but it
devastates a female to lose afriend man.
It's like you spend time with aclose man.
(53:00):
It devastates them.
So this thing of relationshipwe can learn a lot from our
wives.
It devastates them.
So this thing of relationshipwe can learn a lot from our
wives.
I think that's why God broughtus together to make that balance
, so we can learn to process allof that in terms of how we grow
and develop together in thisrelational thing.
And so wealth got a lot of greatthings that can contribute to
(53:21):
the whole and I think with theright wisdom and the right heart
from God, we can do that and doit in the right way, and I
think you wanted an examplethere.
Chris, I appreciate what you do, appreciate you being with us.
Thank you for sharing like that.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Thank you for having me Absolutely.
I appreciate it Absolutely.
Chris man, how can people keepup with Chris McAlpin the work
that you do, if they McAlpin thework that you do, if they want
to lean more?
Speaker 4 (53:47):
into biblical stewardship and learn from you.
How can they keep up with you,brother?
A couple of ways.
Go to soundfsgcom and you canlook for our latest book, which
is titled Money.
Buy the book, download it, it'sfree.
It's ebook-linked, so it'sshort and it goes through our
simple steps of biblicalfinancial planning.
And then you get on our emaillist and when we send out
(54:07):
articles then I write a lot.
Go back to that link or sitethat you said to begin with Okay
, sound, f-s-g, so that'sS-O-U-N-D, just like the word
sound, and then the threeletters F, as in Frank S, as in
Sam G, as in Georgecom.
And you can find our book Moneyby the Book on that link.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
I like that, actually Money by the Book Good.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And you get the book free.
You get the book free, it'sfree.
Yes, sir, money by the Book,but you get it free.
That's me.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Get it free, that's right.
Speaker 4 (54:38):
Yep.
Oh, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
So there it is, chris .
Chris is bringing the check.
Nettie, he didn't just, hedidn't just bring us
conversation, but he brought us.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
And he comes with his check right.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Yeah absolutely I come with my check.
Absolutely I managed otherpeople's money, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I knew that was Chris has been.
It's been incredible man, anincredible privilege and an
incredible honor to sit with you, to glean from your wealth of
wisdom pun intended and to learnfrom you today, and we thank
you so much for what you'redoing and what God has you
embarking on, and we pray hismany blessings over you and your
(55:21):
family.
Brother, thank you.
Speaker 4 (55:22):
Appreciate you guys, take care.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
On behalf of myself, brianCrawford, with my good and
incredible friends, austin Hoyle, nettie Winters, we're signing
off saying God bless, god bless,thanks for joining, living
Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(55:47):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Thank you.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I am your host, brian Crawford,and I am hanging out with my
(00:35):
incredible good friends NettieWinters, austin Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, I'm doing man, I'm being consistent.
I'm still an incredible friendman.
It hadn't changed that category, so I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Also, how about you, man, you doing good.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh yeah, I'm going real well.
No, no issues here, Just justjust pastoring in Columbia,
Mississippi.
That's all I've got going onAwesome.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Awesome and you still are a good friend as well.
So great to have you guys joinus, great for the, for the
audience to listen, the audienceto be listening in.
Just want to give a quick shoutout to our good friends who
sponsor this podcast, folks likeMississippi College and
Anderson United Methodist Church, grace Temple Church,
mississippi State University,real Christian Foundation,
nissan, st Dominic's Hospital,atlas, energy, regis Foundation,
(01:22):
brown Missionary Baptist Church, and then good folks like Ms
Doris Powell, robert Ward andWinters.
Thank you, guys, so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you do weare able to do what we do.
And what Mission Mississippi onLiving Reconciled does is that
we think about the intersectionbetween life, between vocation,
(01:44):
between faith and the work ofreconciliation.
And so we have a guest with ustoday that we're excited to have
that conversation with, mrChris McAlpin.
Chris is a financial advisor,but he's a deeply devoted
Christian.
He received his undergraduatedegree from University of
(02:04):
Mississippi.
He received his MBA fromMississippi College, studied
finance at King's College inLondon hear all about and also
he is a volunteer chaplain at astate prison here in the state
(02:28):
of Mississippi.
So we can't wait to talk toChris and hear about all of
these different things, that areall of these different pots
that he has his hands in, andalso just learn a little bit
about how his life hasintersected as it relates to
faith, vocation andreconciliation.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Chris brother, how are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
man, I'm good my man Glad to be on.
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Already started enjoying talking to all you guys
.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Brother, we are so so incredibly, incredibly grateful
to have you on and incrediblygrateful that you would give us
a little time to talk to you onthis episode of Living
Reconciled.
Let me jump right in and I'llstart with a quick question to
kind of warm you up a little bit.
But it appears, just kind ofwalking through your bio and
(03:16):
your story, that you've spentquite a number of years thinking
through finance, but it alsolooks like you emphasize
biblical financial management.
Can you give us a little bit ofyour story as to how you ended
up just moving from simplythinking about finance through
just the typical terms andlanguage to moving to a place
(03:39):
where you're thinking aboutbiblical finance and how
Christians can steward theirfinance for the glory of God?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Sure, sure.
So I am just old enough thatearly in my career kind of
stretches back to the old schoolboiler room days, the type of
days where they made movies.
You know about actually onename boiler room, or the Wolf of
Wall Street or the two WallStreet movies, all that kind of
stuff.
So I remember reading that aHollywood director said said ben
diesel boiler room.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
How?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
about that that's right in the greatest movie
speech.
It's completely unbiblical.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
But uh uh, ben affleck pulling the keys out of
his head yes, money.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
you say money came by happiness.
Look at the smile on his face.
I completely cleaned that up.
That's not how he said it.
So I'm old enough to stretchback to those days.
I remember my dad was acarpenter, had a ranch
construction crew, was acontractor.
My mom was a math teacher.
(04:42):
I remember getting my first jobas a theme winner as a stock
broker's assistant when I was incollege and the language inside
there was so foul I thought Iwas still on a construction crew
.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I was like man, I'm at home.
That was like that's how I grewup, it's all right.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
And as I got out I got out of school and met my
wife God started changing mylife.
I realized one that didn't lastvery well, and two, I had no
idea the depth of how well thatdoes not last.
I do now, but I knew that I hadto have.
(05:16):
I knew that I needed to workwith people with more money than
me to be successful, and commonsense told me that, no matter
how much education I had, thatjust didn't make sense.
They had more money than me.
Why should this20-something-year-old kid tell
them what to do with their money?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
I thought okay, the Bible knowseverything.
That's where all the source ofwisdom is.
(05:37):
I started studying everything Icould get my hands on about
what the Bible said about money,fell in love with the topic,
because the Bible has about2,300 or so verses on money,
where a lot of Jesus is.
About 11 out of his 40 parables.
40 or so parables speak tomoney or use money as the topic,
(05:58):
and so it's a topic that Godknew would just chase our hearts
and chase our minds Everybodywants to be a billionaire.
Everybody wants to be abillionaire.
Yes, and we live in a society.
At every socioeconomic level,money means something, money
means you're important, moneymeans you're somebody, and so it
(06:19):
just chases our hearts.
It always runs after our hearts, and so now, 20-something years
into my career, I still see itEven more honestly.
The older I get, the more itbreaks my heart that I want to
just teach on this topic moreand more, because we're just a
society that's soaked in wealth.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
My goodness, I'm a lot of you soaked in wealth, man
.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
At the end of this podcast, are we going to be
soaked in wealth with top 10 and77?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
of americans are worried about their financial
(07:10):
future.
So it you know, nate.
Our problem is is that wealways know somebody that's
wealthier than we are butcompared to the rest of the
world rest of the world'slooking at us going you guys are
like the richest people in theworld and y'all are arguing over
the last 10 bucks.
You know, because we all knowsome before you know.
We all know who Bill Gates is,or Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk,
(07:32):
and yet to somebody else in theworld, there is much of a
wealth gap between us and them,as between Musk or Gates or
Zuckerberg and us, musk or Gatesor Zuckerberg and us.
And so in our society, we knowpeople well, dude, and that's
tough because we're alwayscomparing ourselves to other
people.
But to the rest of the world Imean, if you live in some of the
(07:54):
third world countries, you'rejust surviving for the next meal
maybe, but you don't have themedia that we have to know what
you're comparing yourself to.
So it's hard on us mentally andspiritually.
But yeah, you're right, nettie,at the end of this we're all
going to be soaked in wealth.
We're just going to add a zeroto the net worth there.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
It's funny you mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Chris, I've been more and more excited about this
podcast.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Look, everybody loves to have me on their podcast.
For that reason, that's right.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah, man.
It's funny you mentioned this,chris, because literally I've
been reflecting.
I was telling Nettie, beforethe podcast started, that I've
been sitting in Luke 6 for alittle bit, preaching through it
(08:39):
in my church, and of coursethat's where the sermon on the
plane, the Beatitudes, and Jesussays blessed are the poor,
blessed are the hungry, blessedare those that weep, blessed are
those that are reviled for mynamesake.
And so you have poverty, hunger, suffering and hatred for my
namesake.
Right, he says hey, you can beblessed.
If you're in me.
(09:00):
You can find blessing even in,even in those experiences In me.
You can find blessing, even inthose experiences.
But of course, the only way wetypically believe we can find
blessing is in being rich, rich,full, entertained and
well-liked, and that's the onlyway we can process blessing in a
(09:29):
world where 71% of the worldlives on less than $10 a day and
50% of the world lives on lessthan $7.50 a day.
And so there has to be a truthto this reality that you can
find joy outside of what webelieve we can find joy in.
But of course we are soconditioned, like you said,
because this is the water thatwe swim in and this is just kind
(09:51):
of part of our climate and partof our environmental condition
where we believe this is theonly way we can experience it.
And I wrestle with that even inmy own life.
And so it's funny that we'rehaving this conversation with
you today, because it's verymuch timely and I think it
shapes so much of how we liveand how we breathe and how we
operate as Americans and asChristians in America in
particular.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
We all have a different perspective.
Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Excuse me, no, I was just going to say you know, when
I was growing up I was happy,excited and just be around
people, connect with folk, andthen one day somebody told me I
was poor man and all myhappiness went away.
Yeah, you.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Just, I was reading an article about an old story
from Jackson, and I'm not goingto name the same name of the
street, but but, but it was.
It was an old gangster that wasbeing interviewed and he said
the exact same thing.
He said, man, I had a greatchildhood, didn't know it was
different from anybody else,until I got a little bit older
and realized we're poor.
Yeah, you know Right.
(10:54):
But, brian, to your point,we're conditioned and this is
Christ followers too.
This is good, christ-loving,people-loving people.
They spend five days a week atwork and one day a week at
church, and maybe Wednesdaynight at church and maybe
occasionally volunteer forsomething on Saturday.
But that five days, eight hoursa day, 40 hours a week or more.
(11:15):
And it's saying this is how youwork to get that next promotion
, that next raise, to put morein the 401k, and this is how I'm
investing my 401k and I'm doinggreat, and I want to retire at
55 instead of 65.
And all of a sudden, you startseeing all these different
machinations, since we getmatured financially by society
(11:35):
more than we get maturedfinancially by the Bible, and so
it's very hard we readsomething in the Bible, like all
the scriptures that you justsaid, or you go into what Jesus
teaches in the Sermon on theMount on money.
What he's saying, don't worryabout it.
Like, don't worry about it.
And we're like, what do youmean, don't worry about it?
Aren't we supposed to work?
Well, yes, what do you mean,don't worry about it?
(11:56):
Shouldn't we save for thefuture?
Well, yes, but what?
So accustomed to worrying thatwe don't know how to?
Not?
It is a foreign concept toactually trust God with our
provision.
And it's really hard, it'sreally foreign when a financial
advisor starts teaching you thatbecause they're like Chris,
(12:19):
aren't you supposed to make memoney?
Like, yeah, but yeah,absolutely, the Bible actually
gives me different instructions.
You know well, I can make, knowand other instructions as well,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
No.
It's funny because it's like,yes, there's a good end.
This is not a, this is not an.
When I advocate to say, no, youshould just kind of burn all of
your dollars.
This is not.
This is not what we'readvocating.
This is not what we'readvocating.
There's a right perspective thathas to be established, because
if you don't have the rightperspective, then it doesn't
(12:48):
matter how little you have orhow much you have.
You're still going to live inruin and you're going to still
live in spiritual poverty andspiritual bankruptcy.
Yeah, yeah, can you uh makesure that my life is secure?
(13:17):
How can you make sure that,that, that, that I got security
and that I can uh, and that Ican swim, and swim in money like
Nettie Winters?
So, to those Christian leadersthat are coming to you on a
day-to-day basis and you'reoperating from this different
kind of conviction and thisdifferent kind of perspective,
(13:40):
how do you help them see theirmoney and their financial
influence that they have as atool for not just wealth
building, but for kingdombuilding and for even matters
like reconciliation andimpacting communities?
What role do you play inhelping Christian leaders see
(14:02):
their money for something biggerthan themselves?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Now, Chris, before you jump in, I want to clarify
something.
Brian said he's talking aboutNettie Winter soaking in money.
I want to be clear that if youwork for a Christian nonprofit,
you don't gain wealth.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Well, yes and amen, yes and amen to that Nettie, I'm
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Chris would recommend that to someone coming here Do
not work for a Christiannon-profit.
You're going to hell with it.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
No, no, You're storing up wealth in heaven.
You're storing up wealth inheaven.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Paul Amen, I'm not about to make some eggs.
Man Make some eggs.
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, that's right, yeah,yeah, but y'all are just
following what Paul said toTimothy Struck those who are
rich in this world not to bearrogant, not to trust their
money, trust God and store upwealth in heaven.
And Brian, so that happens itreally to that Christian leader.
(15:03):
Everybody goes through seasonsof life that God uses to cause
you to listen to him.
Some of those seasons for somepeople are a little bit less
painful.
Some of those seasons for someof us some of us are a little
hardheaded, maybe it's a littlemore painful.
And when that business leader'sgoing through that season is
when we get to have the bestconversation, because they've
(15:25):
been successful and that successdoesn't satisfy them.
And that is when they start toask questions, especially as a
Christ follower, of what?
What am I called to do?
What does God want me to do?
What doors are opening up forme to serve others?
How can I use my business toinvest in God's kingdom?
And they start praying throughand they start talking through
(15:48):
and they have conversations.
I get the privilege of havingconversations with them and
other leaders in their liveshave conversations with them,
and that's when they reallystart to see a change in their
life, and we see this in theBible, how God uses different
seasons through His people inthe Bible, and we see this in
history, that God's doing thisas well.
I think that's the biggest keythat at that point I get to say,
(16:10):
well, hey, what's God makingyou excited about?
What ministries and what'sbroken in the world that you
just like man?
I want to see this fixed Likego there, cause that's where
God's moving you to go.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right you know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Go ahead, alston.
Oh no, I was just about to askbecause I think God moving us
where to go.
I love what Paul says inPhilippians 4, 11 through 13,.
When he says I have learned tobe content whatever the
circumstances, he's learned thesecret behind it.
His passages remind us thatwealth itself is neither the
(16:49):
problem nor it's the solution,but it's really just where we
place our trust.
It's where we have the love ofour money.
So I'm looking at this.
So how do we coach people to nothave that love of money?
How do we coach people to movebeyond where their hearts are?
To the point, because you canhave the covetousness in your
(17:12):
heart if you don't have anymoney and you see that as the
end all be, all of all yoursolutions, and you're not
content having that, and thenyou can have a tremendous amount
of wealth.
And then you can have atremendous amount of wealth, and
(17:34):
then you can be just assumed bythe need to either preserve
what you have or to expand onwhat you have, and the means by
which you acquire either ofthose can cause real pain.
Because that's, you know, withthe love of money, it's a, it's
a lack of contentment.
So how, how would you, howwould you coach people, uh, in
those situations, those who bothhave none, and then both those
who have a tremendous amounts,um, but uh, but are continuing
(17:58):
to have that sense of drive andthat, that, that lack of
contentment?
I'm not, I'm not saying thateverybody who has ambition and
drive are doing it for wrongreasons.
Some people can have ambitionand drive and they're utilizing
their funds in an incrediblysmart, savvy way that helps the
rest of society and helps reallyjust the rest of our species in
(18:22):
tremendous biblical ways.
But at the same time, you dohave that love of money, which
is the rest of our species and,uh, in tremendous biblical ways,
but but at the same time you dohave that love of money which
is the root of all evil.
I believe is what Timothy uhcalls it.
What was that?
What was that passage?
Is it?
Uh, I think 36.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
Chapter six yeah, just a few verses before.
He says instruct those who arerich in this world.
He does.
He says the love of money,fruit of all sorts of evil.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think it's verse 10 or something like that.
So, it's just like wow, that'sthe root of all evil, right?
Speaker 4 (18:49):
I think there's two things, and you just mentioned
Philippians 4, but inPhilippians 3, we see Paul where
his ambitions come out.
So Paul was extremely drivenand extremely ambitious and we
see that with God's men andwomen all through the Bible.
You typically got written aboutor you wrote a book because you
were ambitious for somethingand it had to do with God's
(19:11):
kingdom in some way.
But I think that we find ourlove of money in.
I can sum it up in two areas,and it's we either find our
significance in money or wealth,wealth creation, success.
In some form.
We find our security and sowhen someone's finding their
(19:32):
significance, especially thatbusiness owner, they got to sell
that business for an X multipleor they have X revenue, x
profit or the X amount in theirinvestment account, x amount
under 401k.
However, at every socioeconomiclevel people find their
significance.
They become somebody with moneyin a dollar figure.
(19:53):
And the second one is thatsecurity, and I use this example
Security is in what form?
That arrogant heiress that getsto just buy people, that
arrogant heiress that just getsto have her way in life because
she can afford to get her way,period, and we'll use the word
(20:14):
scared, because there's nothingwrong with retiring, but that
scared retiree that isconstantly worried about
themselves outliving their money.
There's a wise side to that,but there's an enormously
dangerous side to that.
I'm talking about the dangerousside.
Both of that arrogant heiressand that scared retiree are
(20:36):
using money for their securityas opposed to the Lord.
I'm teaching a class right now.
It's interesting.
I googled, excuse me, I usedGPT for interesting.
I Googled, excuse me, I used achat, gpt for this, and I wanted
to know what was the list.
Why does money have some typeof power over us?
I'm pulling exactly what thissays.
It says that everything that itcomes from that our survival,
(21:04):
our choices, our overallwell-being that money gives us
we're supposed to look to Godfor, not money.
And that's what, in the Sermonon the Mount, jesus is talking
about it there in chapter six,matthew chapter six, where he is
saying all of these things thatwe worry about, look to God,
trust God for it, don't trustyour money for it.
And I think Austin, that is atits core.
(21:26):
When people start loving money,ok, they start fighting big
wars or street fights, ok,that's, that's where that comes
from.
It's that significance orsecurity.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
So he's, a seeker from God.
What about gold?
Gold, gold, yeah.
What about gold?
Yeah, what about it?
You said not in your money, butin God, but as a goal between
money and God, so you can movefrom money to go, like people,
to now.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You can move from money to gold.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, well, you know people are concerned about uh in
in your business, uh many ofyour counterparts or everybody
you want to put that, orrecommend people getting gold.
Yeah, no, in terms of that uhmore security and and and.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
All kidding aside, though, I'll tell you how, how
fickle even that recommendationis.
I remember doing my internshipin the nineties and I asked to
buy gold and I remember themanaging director of the firm
said son, gold's for jewelry, gobuy your girlfriend something.
In other words, we didn't evenstudy it, I didn't know any
better, but at that point, forthe last 15 or 16 years, gold
(22:35):
hadn't made a return.
Well now, if you held gold forthe last five years, you've made
a lot.
I don't know the percentage offthe top of my head, but if
you've had it since COVID,you've made a lot of money in
that period.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I got this question and I've asked my financial guy
and he said he doesn't have ananswer.
So if the dollar is going to beworth nothing, how are you
going to get the money out ofthe gold?
Help me understand what thegold is going to do that my
money won't do, because themoney is no good.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Then what am I going to do with the gold when I can't
sell the gold?
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
I'm not going to say the dollaris not going to be worthless in
your lifetime unless Jesuscomes back or we lose a very big
war.
But you're exactly right, it's.
What currency is the gold thatyou own denominated in?
And if you're holding gold athome, what good is that going to
(23:28):
do if we're in such anapocalyptic environment you're,
you're afraid of something andyou're trying to solve it with
something that, if you justthink a little bit, it's not
going to solve it.
I tell clients a lot of timeswhen they asked me that then
they should I store up gold andsilver?
No, go buy beans and ammoActually.
Up gold and silver?
No, go buy beans and ammoActually don't.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Did he say beans and ammo.
Beans and ammo, yeah, Beans andammo yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
And then I say in all seriousness let's open up the
book of Revelation and let'shave a conversation.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
You know, I think to your point.
I mean just what you've beendescribing, chris.
It all makes sense.
Even get back to Matthew 6.
It makes so much sense whythere's this warning from Christ
personalized effect that hegives to money, that that is,
that that is an idol, that thatthat operates in a way, that
(24:32):
that is, that is, you know,above and beyond some of the
idols of our hearts that we maythink of right and that, and
that is like I said, it'spersonalized in a sense.
Um, because so much of what weare driven by, whether we
realize it or not.
Getting back to your pointabout the ideal, security and
(24:52):
status, all of that is tied intohow we view money versus how we
view God, and so it's just anincredible, incredible thing to
process and think on thing toprocess and think on, even how
we identify ourselves and how wesee ourselves in terms of the
money that we accumulate or haveor in fact don't have.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Because some people, some scholars, say when he said,
for the love of money is theroot of all evil, right?
Well, those that don't have itis loving it too much, right?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Agreed, but get agreed, yeah, but agreed does it
does?
And Nanny, I'm going to comeback to that point in just a
second, but I want to go to whatBrian just said, when Jesus
talked about you cannot serveGod and mammon mammon that word
and there's a lot of scholarlydebate on this, but I believe,
based on both what I see inscripture and what I see in the
world that I work in, that he'stalking about the spirit of
(25:50):
wealth.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
The Greeks would have called this spirit this false
God Pluto's.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
The Romans would have called this false God Pluto.
We named their ninth planet.
Then there's some debate as towhether or not that's a planet
or not, but that's for anotherpodcast.
But that spirit of wealth isone that just kind of seeps in,
and this is not.
I don't think he's just talkingabout serving money in and of
(26:16):
itself, because money in and ofitself is just a tool, and if we
just can treat it like a tooland put it in its place, it's
good, it's when it startsbecoming our significance, it
starts becoming our security,and that's what I meant earlier.
You know there is a time youshould save money, you should
invest money.
That's very clear in 2Corinthians 9.
I can show you other places inthe Bible.
(26:37):
But being wise with our moneyis just treating money as a tool
, using it as our significanceand our security, where we get
our success, our security again,our status, from it.
Now we're talking about thespirit of mammon and that's when
it starts to infiltrate ourlife.
But, nanny, what you were justsaying where, yes, there are
(26:59):
some people that don't havemoney think a lot about money,
but people that do have a lot ofmoney worry about it in
completely different ways therewas a member of the Vanderbilt
family I believe it was about100, 125 years ago that said
$200 million is enough to killany man.
(27:20):
I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
And that's $200 million 100,125 years ago.
That's a lot of money today,right, like that's a lot of
money today, right, $200 millionis a lot of money.
Now, can you imagine that,having the responsibility for
$200 million and the weight?
And I know a lot of peoplelisten to this and go like I
can't imagine it, but I'd liketo have that problem.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yeah, I get it.
I would too.
You're talking to one here, man, I'd love to have a problem.
Yeah, I'm like give me thatproblem.
Yeah, give me that problem, I'dgive it all up to him at
Mission Mississippi, that'sright, get after him, man, he'll
manage it.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, yeah, give it to.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Brian, give it to Brian.
No-transcript.
(28:30):
It really starts to break downa lot.
Every advisor you work talk to,you're worried about them
trying to to sell you somethingor, uh, abuse you in some way to
profit them.
That's every conversationyou're in now, and so you're
constantly with this group ofpeople that you hope they are
(28:53):
looking after your best interest.
And now, all of a sudden, youfeel like you're being babysat
all the time.
You can't just go be a regularperson somewhere, and that's not
if you're a celebrity, but youhave a lot of those same kind of
problems.
So so, yeah it it both it it itdoes.
This money has this weird holdAlmost.
(29:15):
That's why the Bible talksabout it all the time.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, but you, you know, in that light, you know, I
, I, a few years ago they did,they done some documentaries on
people that won the lotto, right, you, a few years ago they'd
done some documentaries onpeople who won the lotto, right?
You know, one lady won thelotto and they said to her well,
what are you going to do?
She said I'm going to go get mea double wide.
So you know, different peoplehave different expectations of
(29:37):
how to do it.
But they went back years laterand interviewed these people.
In many instances, the peoplethat won the big money were
worse off when they went backthan they were before they won
the money.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
It's that strange.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Even some of them ended up in jail and other bad
things happened to them becausethe money is like wow, it became
their god, and too often thathappens with us in terms of you
know the gambling industry willtell you how wonderful it is to
pull that lever, win all thismoney, but they never tell you
about the other side of the coinor how many people pull that
(30:17):
lever and kill themselves ordone some other crazy thing
because they want to get richquick.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
One thing I'm thinking about,especially with gambling, where
we give away our money, andthroughout our conversation thus
far we've talked about howmoney can either be used for
kingdom work or really just anidol that grips our hearts, that
God calls his people to releasethat grip on their wealth, is
(30:46):
through tithing.
I mean, you see that throughoutthe scriptures, really even the
Old Testament emphasizes thissignificantly.
You have Genesis 14, 19 and 20,when Abraham gives a tenth of
his spoils to Meshulzadek, who'sthe priest of God the most high
, long before even the law wasgiven to tell us to do it.
Leviticus 27, 30 is whentithing is formalized into law
(31:11):
for Israel, where God declaresthat a tithe of everything from
the land belongs to the Lord andit's holy to the Lord.
It wasn't about givingnecessarily the temple, but it
was about acknowledging thateverything we have ultimately
belongs to God.
I mean even Malachi, 3.8.10,.
It says you know, we see Goddirectly challenging his people
asking will a man rob God?
(31:33):
Yet you rob me.
And he's telling them to bringthe full tithe into the
storehouse and just the promisesof just open floodgates of
heaven when they do so.
The message is very clearWithholding from God reflects a
heart that does not trust him.
You know, I mean especially,you know, touching on the
aspects of gambling, which is wefreely give away money,
(31:55):
probably far more than a tenthof our income, those who are
gripped by that type of thing.
And yet we have Christians whostruggle with tithing, you know,
often out of fear forfinancials.
Skepticism about what'simportant, we see it throughout
the scripture.
Even Mark 12 says in the NewTestament about the, when he
(32:19):
commends the widow's offering,not because she gave much,
because she gave sacrificially,not because she gave much
because she gave sacrificially.
So I mean, we have Christiansin our midst who are more
willing to be sacrificial, let'ssay, in the practice of
gambling than they are in thepractice of tithing, but yet
they lose more through gambling,but it's yet in the pursuit of
(32:40):
that higher wealth.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, I mean, austin, let's not even rigid um,
regulated just to the orconfided to, you know, gambling
and and things of that nature.
But even I was just, you know,christians that are that are
more committed, you know to, toinvestment, you know, oh yeah,
investment in stocks and bondsand things of that nature.
Christians that are morecommitted to commerce or not
commerce, but you knowentertainment, you know, so we
have, you know, two dozen, twodozen, you know, uh, streaming
(33:11):
profiles in terms of netflix,hulu, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But you know, but we're, we maybe rich in entertainment but
poor in our, you know, in oursacrifices for kingdom you know.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
So there's like so many different ways to you know
to to eat that yeah, I noticednobody.
Y'all really don't want tostart meddling and say that
nobody's spending money on, likestate Ole Miss and southern
football or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Oh, we can throw that out there.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
You want listeners to stay.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Kill the fee, kill the fee Kill, the fee Kill the
fee.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Oh, I was about to double down alongside Chris on
that one man.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Yeah, take off, austin, get on it.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I'll get on it with you Listen, man, the people I
was like, let's talk about thefootball.
Yeah, the people that get ridof.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I grew up.
I do not want to hear thatconversation there, man yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
I went to Mississippi College, Chris, so I was just
like, yeah, football isn't.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
It depends on when you're there now it depends on
when you're there.
There was a time that therewere some studs that played at
that school.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Now, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right you
got a real question guys yeah,let me ask you.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Let me ask you a really really, really big
question.
That's been kind of gripping mesince we've had this
conversation and we and we'rekind of rounding the turn here,
so I really want to make sure Iget it in.
But you know, we've beentalking about biblical
stewardship and we've beentalking about, you know, matters
of the heart in terms of how wethink about money and how we
steward it and for kingdompurposes.
(34:35):
Where do you see financialwisdom, financial stewardship or
biblical stewardship?
Where do you see itintersecting in our work of
reconciliation and racialhealing?
What are some ways in which youthink this lands on the work of
racial healing, reconciliation,connecting communities across
(35:01):
these dividing lines?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
All right, I think that's in a few ways and it's
not financial only.
We see a lot of the OldTestament teaching where the
teaching leads to sharing a meal, sitting down and sharing a
meal with somebody.
In ancient times, what that hadto do with Brian.
If you and I shared a mealtogether, that meant you were
(35:24):
introducing me to your friends,to your network.
Okay, and I think that inracial reconciliation in
Mississippi especially but thisis true for all over the nation
that working with ministriesthat connect resources from
resourced areas, okay, to theunresourced areas and I'm using
(35:45):
the word specifically resources,not just money, because I think
of resources as money, yes, buta person's time, a person's
skills, a person's network.
I remember studying this yearsago in different poverty
alleviation ministries and oneperson that worked in a
particular area of the worldsaid we have this old idea give
(36:05):
a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him
for a lifetime.
Well, when you work in ministryin different contexts, you
might find a fisherman who's abetter fisherman than you.
He just needs to ride to thepond, right?
He just needs a little bit ofmoney to buy bait one time Okay.
So a lot of times, those withresources show up and say I'm
(36:26):
just going to write a check andI'm going to solve all the
world's problems.
No, you're probably not Allright.
You may need to show up inracial reconciliation.
We need to recognize theunder-resourced areas and the
over-resourced areas in thestate and we can spend time
looking at the history as to whywe have rich and poor in the
state and that matters a lot,okay and recognize those that
(36:50):
have money and have wealth needto recognize that you were main
reason that you have money andyou have wealth was that you
were born into it.
Okay, you were born in theUnited States.
You were born in a wealthy,safe, relatively peaceful area
that you could go to school at agood school, you could learn
and you had the opportunity toget a good career whether that
(37:12):
was a job or you own your ownbusiness and you were blessed to
be born in that area, and somepeople were not as blessed as
you, and so we're sharing ourresources.
Going back to 1 Timothy 6 there, when Paul says instruct those
who are rich in this world, andone of those things I would
instruct those who are rich inthis world is to take the lead
(37:35):
because you're leading from aposition of strength to
reconcile across racial linesright, white, black, brown.
I know we use the word race,but when you actually look in
the bible there's one.
There's peoples.
You know like we have differentskin colors, but there's only
one race, okay we identify byethnicity, it's not by race.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Yes, sir, there you go.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yes, there you go, there you go absolutely that's
right, it's, it's so, so, so,across different ethnicities,
and say, all right, you're madein in God's image and God's
blessed me this way.
How can I help you?
And but you got to go.
You can't just show up andwrite a check.
And then there's times thatit's good to write a check and
get out of the way.
Ok, to those who can write acheck.
There's times to write a checkand get out of the way, no doubt
(38:20):
about it.
But a lot of times it is betterto show up, build a relationship
and share more than yourcheckbook.
But share your book ofresources.
Okay, who do I know who's in mynetwork?
How can you know my skills inbusiness?
Can I help you build a business?
And in all of those areas youcan tell I get really excited
(38:42):
about this.
But you still got to go sitdown that one-on-one and build
that relationship.
And I think that's where youreally start to go sit down that
one-on-one and build thatrelationship.
And I think that's where youreally start to see racial
reconciliation and that becauseit changes hearts and minds on
both sides of that, of thatconversation.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
We like to think of it.
Don't send your check.
Bring your check, come withyour check.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
I like that.
I'm going to borrow that.
Can I borrow that?
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I just made it up while you were talking.
I like that.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
All right, I'm going to keep it hidden every time I
say it.
Danny Winters once told me.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
But as a ministry leader, I always like to say but
even if you don't come, pleaseyou can send your check.
Send your check.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
If you can't make it.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
If you can't make it.
Brian, I think you know y'allasked me this and some of the
information before we got on thepodcast together.
You know what changed a lot ofmy view, and that is when I
started working as a volunteerin the state penitentiary system
and I started seeing how unjustour justice system is.
I just didn't know and itwasn't like I grew up with a lot
of money, I just grew upregular work, you know
(39:51):
middle-class kids, you know, andjust you start to see.
You look at somebody and goyou're in here for what?
And I'm thinking crap, you gotto be kidding me and I've been
going in there now for 13, 14years, so I've heard that story
heartbreaking too many times togo.
(40:12):
Man, this is messed up andthat's not an indictment on
people in the justice system.
That's not what it is Rightright, absolutely.
It's not as wholesome and justof a system as we like to
pretend it is sometimes.
It's not at all.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
All systems have humans behind them, and so
they're prone to failure, eventhe best system.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, the best system has that, but it's interesting
to me how there's a group in oursociety that sees that without
even thinking about it Becauseof the position, the plays how
they grew up, their background,their color, their ethnicity,
(40:56):
all of these things.
They can see that.
And then when they bump intoChris and Chris said well, you
know God, I had to go to jail tosee this God.
In a sense, I got locked up tojail to see this.
Not in the sense I got locked upin jail, but I went there.
And so you see, from the otherside perspective, and it goes
back to what you said you couldaccomplish that without having
(41:17):
to go to jail, but it's goodthat you went to jail.
Now you have a greaterperspective.
But if we start theconversation, we start the
conversation, we start thecultural relationships of
understanding.
Everybody don't see things thesame way that you do it.
So it's like I usually havethese conversations and people
come from the same community.
Right, let's just say, let'suse Punta Talk.
(41:39):
I got three people in the roomfor Punta Talk, two of them are
white and one is black, twowhites in there talking about
how wonderful it was to beraised in Punta Top County, in
Punta Top, mississippi, and thisblack person got tears
streaming down their face, man,and they can't wait to grab
those two white people and say,like you didn't know over across
that track how it was, I can'tbelieve it, you just ignored us.
(42:01):
You're not ignorant.
Was?
I can't believe it, you justignored us, you're not ignorant,
you just ignored us.
And so when I say conversation,it takes a lot of time and
energy to help people fromacross the tracks, on whichever
side.
You want to understand theother side, how they live, and
so forth, and you think theywould know, but they don't,
nuh-uh.
And.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Eddie, you're right that you.
I was thinking about thatbefore we got on and how to
articulate it the way you justarticulated it, because I think
everybody thinks the quoteunquote other side of this
conversation knows and thatthey're being willfully ignorant
.
Yourself into the conversationwith a person on the other side
(42:46):
of the conversation you realizethey're they're not being
willfully eager, that they, thatthey, they have they wipe.
Uh, I found this in politics tobe true.
Someone used this.
You know, like the person thathas a different agreement, like
like they have a, they'rewanting to get to the same goal,
they're just taking a differentroute and oftentimes in racial
context, it's like, like man, Ididn't know I'd have had a
(43:09):
different opinion, if I knew.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And all rich folks are not bigots, right?
No, Right.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
Absolutely, that's right, that's right, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
You know you guys to your point.
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
Chris, go ahead.
No, I was going to say I'msorry, go ahead, go ahead, chris
, go ahead.
And I want to make sure Ichange it in myself or God
change it in me and change it inmy family, and to be able to
say that honestly, without theunneeded I'm trying to think of
(43:56):
the word I'm looking for, butwithout unnecessary guilt
falling on you for what'shappened in a lineage, decades
or generations before you.
I think a lot of times, danny,when people hear the word you
know that bigotry on wealthypeople, and they go well, I'm
not a bigot.
Well, hang on, nobody justcalled you one.
(44:17):
Just slow down.
Let's be honest.
Because if we recognize thatChrist has forgiven me and you
call me.
I know you did just that, butif you call me a bigot, I'm
going to go, man, that ain't theworst thing I've ever been.
I ain't the worst thing.
I've ever been called and I'mforgiven by Christ.
So let me face this honestlyand then let's do something
about it to make the worldaround us better.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, all rich folks are not bigot.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
All poor people are not robbing the bigots.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
That's right, right, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
We have this balance of understanding that you know.
We just need to educateourselves about each other, and
you know to your point, nettie.
I find that so important justwithin the blood relative family
.
That has to happen later onacross the the cartel lines get
(45:08):
it?
Speaker 4 (45:09):
can I, can I just cross the railroad tracks and
have the conversation it's alittle bit easier than sometimes
across the dinner table atthanksgiving, I mean one.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
One of the things I've noticed that's, you know,
that's almost the enemy ofgetting to know each other, and
I think it lies at the heart ofbigotry to a degree is that when
people have done the work tounderstand other persons who
have had radically differentlife experiences than them, and
then, even on the other side ofcomplexity, they still reject,
(45:41):
necessarily, the language that'sused because so many different
people, groups, attempt toinstill within society, either
codified through law or cultureor anything.
And this is not a left wingthing, it's not a right wing
thing, it's a human thing.
And I think this is where theheart of bigotry lies is when we
attempt to inflict upon othersour understanding, so much so
(46:04):
that it precludes anyone elsefrom having an alternative view.
And what that does is precludesthose persons who have gone
through the work to understandand then rejected the language
that is trying to be instilledwithin the culture and within
the society, whether that isleft-wing language or right-wing
language, right-wing languagethat's, it's still bigotry,
(46:26):
because you're trying to inflictupon others how they should
live, how they should think, howthey should be, even if they
don't understand, or even ifthey understand where you're
coming from, but also haverejected the oversimplification
that we reduce our experiencesto.
Does that make sense?
It's kind of a very heady andabstract way of talking about it
, because I didn't want to bringup one example over the other,
(46:47):
because I wanted to say this isa human problem and it and it
lies at the heart of of whatbigotry is, because bigotry
knows no uh socioeconomic ordemographic, uh boundaries.
It's uh, it's because any, anyhuman can be a bigot.
A woman can be bigotry, it canbe a bigot towards men, men can
be bigots towards women, whitescan be bigots towards blacks and
(47:10):
blacks can be bigots towardswhites.
And I think that that's asignificant point that we
sometimes don't appreciate inour culture as much.
But sorry, I don't know ifthere's a question in there.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I think Benjamin Watson simplified that in his
book is that it's not a skinproblem, it's a sin problem.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely you know, the one
thing that stood out to me, evenas we were having this
conversation, guys, is you knowwe were talking about.
You know?
Don't, don't just sing yourcheck, Bring your check.
Again, we affirm that if youcan't not bring your check, you
can still send it.
But but we want, we want you,we want you to bring it.
(47:49):
Yeah, yeah, we want to clarify,but, but, with that said, I
think I think underneath thatthere's something to be said
about the assumptions that wesometimes make that the people
that have the most financialwealth are the ones that are
bringing wealth.
But what we've articulated,chris, even in this dialogue, is
(48:10):
that you bringing your check isalso an opportunity for you to
accumulate wealth, becausewealth comes in the experiences
of rubbing shoulders with peoplewho don't look like you, who
don't come from the samebackgrounds as you, the same
experiences as you.
There's a wealth of wisdom thatcomes even if they don't have
the same wealth financially.
There's a wealth of wisdom thatcomes through those
(48:32):
relationships and thoseexperiences and even, possibly,
skill sets that they're bringingin and all these different
opportunities.
And so, for those that thereare times in which the people
with financial wealth as well asthe people without financial
wealth think that the personthat's bringing the check is the
one bringing all the wealth.
But there needs to be more ofan understanding that know that
(48:54):
we're sharing wealth, that thatthat the person that's bringing
the check has an opportunity toreceive wealth as well.
To receive wealth as well.
I think about the fact that I goevery second Saturday.
Our church now goes every secondSaturday to the Vicksburg
convalescent home and we talkabout all the time regularly
(49:15):
that there is so much that weare gaining in this experience
that could they be gainingsomething in this experience of
us being present and spendingtime and playing goofy trivia
games and all that kind of stuffand praying together and giving
out gifts and candy and allthat?
Yeah, I'm sure there's somebenefit for them.
But, my goodness, the abilityto sit with people who have
(49:38):
lived lives that have farexceeded my eyes and just hear
their stories and glean fromtheir wisdom.
There is so much wealth that Ileave with after I've spent that
time with them, and and and Ithink that's really at the heart
of what we're sharing when wetalk about sharing lives with
one another that our wealth isbeyond just the money that we
(50:00):
have in our pockets.
And if we could ever understandthat, then we can understand
that there's so much wealth thatpeople are bringing, even if
they aren't bringing any money100% 100%.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I think that was a clear example of what Chris said
about him going to prison,exactly.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And that's exactly what brought him to my life.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
That had built so much wealth into his life.
You know, I like to think aboutit like this as a person that
had to recruit board members fornon-profit, I always think
about.
You want to find people thatgot the capacity to work, some
that have wisdom and some thathave wealth, but it's the
balance of all that that bringsit together to make the thing
work.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
And so as we accumulate.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
We accumulate all three by our work, by our
relationships, so that we canfully benefit.
I think so often, chris andmost people see it in wealth,
but I see this as that God hasso much to offer us through all
of these channels of our work,of wisdom and what we gain in
(51:03):
aging and growing anddevelopment, that we can benefit
from the full expressionexperience that God wants us to
have, and go way beyond money.
And I'll leave it at that.
That's kind of like my opinion.
Speaker 4 (51:15):
Well, and I think that when we focus on money and
I'm going to say in any men arethe worst at this.
It's OK, we all mean success isthat, that, that number, that
that defining number.
That means success to us, andso we're going to spend 30 or 40
(51:38):
years driving towards thisnumber and along the way we
build some really cool things,but we miss out on relationships
and we miss out on the wealthof different experiences.
And I'm not talking abouttaking a vacation, I'm talking
about going and sitting down ina prison and watching the Super
Bowl.
I went with guys, watched oneof the college playoff games and
(52:00):
just sat there and watched thefootball game.
We didn't talk about scripture.
We prayed for the food beforethe pizza and just sat there and
watched the football game with.
We didn't talk about scripture,we prayed for the food before
the pizza and just sat there andwatched football.
You know, and there's times thatI have, easily they're one of
my favorite groups to go watch aball game with and I do hope to
get to go watch the Super Bowlwith them here in a few days.
(52:21):
And so, yeah, you're right, butyou just miss so many of those
relationships.
There's just so many differentthings the world has to offer
that God is offering in ourlifetime that we're missing by
focusing just on money andmoney's just a tool a lot of
times you take along with you.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, I think you're right about the men, because the
women enjoy the relationship,the friendship, the fellowship.
You know, sometimes we can losea friend and it's like, okay,
it's a lot more out there.
You know, it may be a bump inthe road a little bit, but it
devastates a female to lose afriend man.
It's like you spend time with aclose man.
(53:00):
It devastates them.
So this thing of relationshipwe can learn a lot from our
wives.
It devastates them.
So this thing of relationshipwe can learn a lot from our
wives.
I think that's why God broughtus together to make that balance
, so we can learn to process allof that in terms of how we grow
and develop together in thisrelational thing.
And so wealth got a lot of greatthings that can contribute to
(53:21):
the whole and I think with theright wisdom and the right heart
from God, we can do that and doit in the right way, and I
think you wanted an examplethere.
Chris, I appreciate what you do, appreciate you being with us.
Thank you for sharing like that.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Thank you for having me Absolutely.
I appreciate it Absolutely.
Chris man, how can people keepup with Chris McAlpin the work
that you do, if they McAlpin thework that you do, if they want
to lean more?
Speaker 4 (53:47):
into biblical stewardship and learn from you.
How can they keep up with you,brother?
A couple of ways.
Go to soundfsgcom and you canlook for our latest book, which
is titled Money.
Buy the book, download it, it'sfree.
It's ebook-linked, so it'sshort and it goes through our
simple steps of biblicalfinancial planning.
And then you get on our emaillist and when we send out
(54:07):
articles then I write a lot.
Go back to that link or sitethat you said to begin with Okay
, sound, f-s-g, so that'sS-O-U-N-D, just like the word
sound, and then the threeletters F, as in Frank S, as in
Sam G, as in Georgecom.
And you can find our book Moneyby the Book on that link.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
I like that, actually Money by the Book Good.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
And you get the book free.
You get the book free, it'sfree.
Yes, sir, money by the Book,but you get it free.
That's me.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Get it free, that's right.
Speaker 4 (54:38):
Yep.
Oh, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
So there it is, chris .
Chris is bringing the check.
Nettie, he didn't just, hedidn't just bring us
conversation, but he brought us.
Speaker 2 (54:47):
And he comes with his check right.
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Yeah absolutely I come with my check.
Absolutely I managed otherpeople's money, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I knew that was Chris has been.
It's been incredible man, anincredible privilege and an
incredible honor to sit with you, to glean from your wealth of
wisdom pun intended and to learnfrom you today, and we thank
you so much for what you'redoing and what God has you
embarking on, and we pray hismany blessings over you and your
(55:21):
family.
Brother, thank you.
Speaker 4 (55:22):
Appreciate you guys, take care.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
On behalf of myself, brianCrawford, with my good and
incredible friends, austin Hoyle, nettie Winters, we're signing
off saying God bless, god bless,thanks for joining, living
Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(55:47):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Thank you.
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