April 16, 2025 • 35 mins
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
In this heartfelt episode, Jason “Smiley” Abrams of InterVarsity shares how his father’s suffering and steadfast faith redefined his view of Christianity—from performance to relationship. We explore how authenticity, not polish, is the key to reaching younger generations, and how genuine relationships rooted in the fruit of the Spirit can bridge even our deepest racial and generational divides. Tune in for a powerful reminder that suffering can birth purpose, and real connection begins with being real.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford,hanging out with my friend
(00:33):
Austin Hoyle, the good doctor,sir how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I'm good.
I got my tea.
It's Monday afternoon, justtrying to, trying to get back
into the swing of work after aweekend of relaxation trying to
get back into the swing of workafter a weekend of relaxation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and of course, we're not video, we're audio
podcast, so people don't get achance to see what I see, which
is the good doctor with a gooddoctor's lean.
You have the posture today of agood doctor holding on to a cup
of tea, leaned and lounging,like you're preparing to say
something profound and deep, andso it's good man, it's good.
Looks like you're preparing tosay something profound and deep,
and so it's good man, it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Looks like I'm preparing to say something
profound and deep.
We'll see if that happens.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We'll see if that happens.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Hey.
Also thanks to our goodsponsors.
We are so incredibly gratefulfor all of you, folks like
Nissan, st Dominic's BrownMissionary Baptist Church, folks
like Ann Winters and RobertWard.
Thank you, guys, so much forwhat you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and today, what we are doingis talking to an incredible
(01:36):
friend, an incredible leader, anincredible thinker, a gentleman
by the name of Jason SmileyAbrams.
By the name of Jason SmileyAbrams, he is an inspirational
speaker and poet, currentlylives in the Mississippi and
serves as the area ministrydirector for InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship, where hesupervises college ministry in
(01:56):
the entire state of Mississippi,memphis and West Florida.
Jason has been oh, smiley hasbeen involved in full-time
ministry since 2008.
Um, he is the co-founder of theAndy Abrams Foundation, which
is a nonprofit in honor of hislate father.
Smiley is a prolific uh author.
He is a prolific thinker, uhspoken word artist.
(02:19):
Um, you, you, even again, forthose of y'all who can't see the
video, if you saw the video,you would know that we were in
the presence of an artist justby looking at his rig and we got
a goodness.
It's set up, his podcast set up, and so we are incredibly
grateful to have uh smiley um onliving reconciled today.
Smiley brother, how are youdoing?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
it is good to be here .
Thank you so much for theinvitation and the introduction.
I really appreciate you readingmy bio from my website.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So that was good.
That's right, Absolutely.
It's a good bio brother.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a great bio.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, I was like I don't knowso much about.
Oh yeah, so my, it's my website, so yeah, public information.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just Googled.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It is publicly accessible.
It's publicly accessible, man.
Let's start by just talking alittle bit about Smiley Abrams.
Man, why don't you tell us alittle bit about your story, how
you came to faith in story?
A lot of it has come from theorigin of my name.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So people often would ask me is that your real name,
smiley?
It is a name that I say, thatGod changed my name to Smiley
and it's a part of my story, sothat's the best way to introduce
myself is by introducing youwho I am, and so, really, I say
that I'm born, raised and calledto the state of Mississippi,
and, just being aroundMississippi all of my life, I
(03:52):
know that I was.
I grew up in a intentionallymulti-ethnic community called
Voice of Calvary.
My parents were active leadersin that when I was like two, and
so they were both active in thecommunity, and so I grew up in
that world, and but I think thatI say that I used to think the
(04:13):
world revolved around me.
See, I'm the youngest, and Isay they got it right the third
time, and so I think that whathappened, though, is I had a lot
of self-righteous pride, and soI'm an achiever.
I try to get you know all thebest of competition in my top 10
(04:34):
is against me, and thatwhoever's in my class, I was
like I got to get, I got to bethe best, and I think that fed
my pride and my ego.
I believe those guys grace thatallowed me to be a part of my
family, and one of the thingsthat really helped shift my
mindset when the world stoppedrevolving around me was when my
(04:56):
father got sick, and so it wasabout spring break 96, where he
went into the hospital and waspretty much out for almost a
week and his body just began tochange.
He went blind, he was diagnosedwith diabetes, his kidney
started failing, and all of thathappened.
He was in the middle, doingministry full time in the
(05:18):
community in West Jackson, andthen all of a sudden he's
basically bedridden, and so, inresponse, our family shifted
things, and so one of the shiftswas putting me in a homeschool,
and so during that time sixth,seventh and eighth grade I was
homeschooled and I spent timewith my father because he was at
(05:38):
home doing dialysis at home,and so I began to watch the
power of God in his life, and Ithink that in the prime, pivotal
time of a middle school ageperson, you know, unless you're
11, 12 years old, you'refiguring out who you are, and as
I'm figuring out who I am, I'mwatching my father really
(06:01):
wrestle with just sickness andjust feeling hopeless of like.
You know, I'm supposed to bethis provider of my family and
now my baby son is taking careof me and I'm seeing, at the
same time, a peace in his heartbecause of his intimate
relationship with Jesus, and itwas like, ok, that's what I want
(06:24):
.
I want that for me, I want thispeace, I want this, this
intimacy.
I knew God, I knew about God, Iknew the books in the Bible, I
knew I could quote, you know,scripture verses, since I was
like two, three of those firstwords, like those are things
that I knew.
But relationship is what I sawwhen everything else was
stripped away, when everythingwasn't about performance,
(06:45):
because I thought in my mind, Ithought that my faith or
religion was about performance,because I would, you know, in
order to do all the good thingsand do all the say all the books
in the Bible, do everything youperform.
But now my father's at home andthere's nobody watching him but
me, and it's a relationship,it's something that can god be
the one that gives you peace,even when the when the world is
(07:08):
turmoil.
And when I saw that, I was likethat's jesus, I want to follow
jesus and I fell in love withjesus, and so the response and
reaction to that was um, really,and I would say, when I say god
changed my name, it was a shiftbecause, in response, I had
this joy I met Jesus and I foundthe joy internally and I
started expressing it outwardlyby wearing smiley face
(07:30):
paraphernalia, yellow t-shirt.
I had yellow smiley faceeverything and honestly, I
didn't even notice it too much.
It just happened until someone,about three or four years later
, because I'm wearing it everyday all the time, I knew it was
my favorite.
But then someone said, you know, we're going to start calling
you Smiley.
And I was like you know what?
It makes sense.
I'm wearing a smiley faceheadband.
(07:52):
You know I have armbands andsmiley face T-shirt.
You know lanyards, yellow pantsdriving a yellow car.
Like you know people like, oh,we're going to call you Smiley.
I was like, okay, that makessense.
And so I accepted it and I saidthat God was calling me that
(08:13):
because of the joy I had in myheart, and so that was so that's
that's me.
And so I think that in I metJesus in that time period and I
started pursuing him, and sothat's kind of that, that
specific journey so around Iwould say, between that middle
school time is when I reallystarted pursuing Jesus and
wanted to just keep going andwanted to do more.
I can tell more about my, mycalling in ministry as well, but
(08:34):
I'll pause for a second toprocess with you guys what you
as you're, as you're talkingabout my story.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I really
heard most poignantly poignantlycome from what you were saying.
I I guess because I likepicking up on the theological
stuff but it's like you wereable to smile even amidst the
tumult of that period because ofwhat you saw your father going
through, that, uh, even thoughhe had gotten sick, uh, and he
(09:02):
was obviously suffering greatly,he was able to pass that on to
you guys.
You know, pass that joy on toyou guys, that sense of peace on
to y'all.
I just found that just aremarkable aspect of your story.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Because it's not just because you know.
Sometimes, when we you know,when we hear of peace and joy,
we think our circumstances haveto be perfect or we think that
it's just something of our ownmaking, it's a mindset that we.
But from what I'm hearing ofyour story, it's something that
is just a gift from God that wasable to be bestowed upon you,
(09:42):
and you were able, and you werein a place where you could
receive that.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, man, I'm, you know, first of all, smiley man.
It's really the first time I'veheard, of course, I understood
the you know, the early passingof your father man, but it's
really the first time I've heardyou actually unpack it in this
way.
Um, and and I'm, I'm reminded oftwo things.
One, uh, this quote that thatI've heard um shared a few times
(10:09):
, where, uh, where it says, outof suffering have emerged the
strongest souls and the mostmassive characters are seared
with scars, and that's one thingthat stands out to me.
But the other thing that reallystands out to me, bro, is just
how suffering has a profound,has a way of deep cause our
(10:31):
faith to be diminished, andthere's a sense in which it can.
But I've seen the other side ofthis over and over again, even
in my own story with my father,with my father's early passing,
glioblastoma, brain cancer isthat it had a way of deepening
my faith in ways that I don'tthink it could have ever been
(10:54):
deepened without the experienceof suffering that I had to watch
and observe and see thefaithfulness, the faithfulness
of my father to Jesus, even inthe midst of his struggle.
Right, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No, that's good, that's good.
That quote that you shared wasreally interesting and it kind
of it's.
It echoes the quote.
That quote from my father.
In one of his sermons hepreached.
He was like out of yourweakness comes strength, and out
of our suffering comes power.
And so thinking about SecondCorinthians and seeing the just
(11:29):
the powerful transformation ofeven Paul's thorn in his side is
like.
This is like if I'm a boastabout something, I'm a boast
about my weakness, and I thinkthat's where we can see that our
bodies are made to do that.
Like no pain, no gain, likethere's something about our
physical bodies that Goddesigned that allows literally
the breaking of muscles to buildthem, like that's how it's
(11:51):
designed.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah.
My wife's favorite passage ofscripture man is and of course
passage of scripture man is andof course, for right reasons,
she battles with a number ofdifferent ailments.
But her favorite passage ofscripture is that 2 Corinthians
12, man, where Paul says when Iam weak then I am strong because
of the power of Christ that isperfected in me through my
(12:14):
weakness.
And so then, like you said, thenI'll boast in my suffering,
because I know that Christ ispresent, I know that he's near
and I know he's operatingpowerfully even in the midst of
my weakness and my suffering,man, and so, yeah, that's
incredible, brother, that'sincredible Um.
So you made a transition intoministry, um, and and, and.
(12:35):
This ministry is primarilycollegiate, but you had your own
college awakening, so to speak.
Yeah, that formed some of thatministry.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, I think I mean specifically my, I would say,
calling to ministry isinteresting, and so a lot of
people, and this is when Iintroduced myself.
I say I'm born, raised andcalled to Mississippi.
A lot of that's part of myinitial calling.
(13:07):
So just thinking about is ayear after my father passed, and
I'm asking the Lord.
I'm 17 years old and I'mfasting and praying and I'm
asking the Lord what do you wantme to be when I grow up?
It's like I was tired of peoplealways asking me like, what do
you want to be when you grow up?
I was like I really want toknow what the Lord wants me to
be.
And so, um, as I was sitting ingeography class, uh, I remember,
(13:29):
um, it just came to me likeIsaiah 61.
I'm think I'm studying Isaiahat the time and it's like Isaiah
61 was like a click, like thespirit of the Lord is on you, to
preach good news to the poor,to bind up the brokenhearted, to
proclaim freedom for thecaptives.
I know like this is what I wassupposed to do with my life.
In the same time, I rememberone of my mentors, dr Dauphus
(13:50):
Weary, was speaking at a studentcouncil convention for the
state of Mississippi and it wasjust a generic student council
thing, not a specific religiousthing, but just a generic
student council thing.
And I was a part of the studentcouncil.
I'm figuring out what I'm doingin my life and he talks about
his story and he says you know,most people in Mississippi you
(14:14):
know success is leaving, and Iknow that I was thinking about
that.
I'm like thinking about myticket out.
You know, like figuring out howto get out of Mississippi
that's really what mostMississippians think about.
And so I'm like how can I getout Under a certain age?
So yeah, and so how do I get out?
But he said in his story, hisbook I ain't coming back, right,
(14:36):
that's the standard, right, soit's OK.
But he was challenged and hesaid and he challenged the
entire group he's like if youdon't pour back into the place
that poured into you, then whowill?
And so at that point I'm reallylike Lord, like what do you
want me to be?
And I'm like, oh, okay, I needto pour back into the place that
poured into me.
Ok, I need to pour back intothe place that poured into me.
(14:57):
And so that was really myinitial calling and I have held
on to that since day one ofcollege.
I was looking for I preached myfirst sermon the day before I
graduated high school.
It was the baccalaureateservice and I challenged the
audience and continue tochallenge, to find campus
ministries, find mentors,connect with people, pour into
(15:19):
people and have them pour intoyou.
Like.
I was like mentorship was ahuge thing for me.
And so when I went off tocollege I knew I was like I need
to find a community.
So before I even confirmed mymajor, I was looking for two
things.
On a college ministry, I wantedsomething that could develop me
as a leader and I wantedsomething that was intentionally
multi-ethnic and InterVarsity.
(15:54):
Christian Fellowship atSouthern Miss was that, and so
day one.
You know, it wasn't a debate,it wasn't a figuring out, it
wasn't a you know, walk through,try it.
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
InterVarsity.
This is the one I'm here and 21years later, I that journey,
that inner varsity I mean youspoke specifically about, like
you said, being being present,being here, being in the state,
remaining in the SIP, which Ihave an incredible appreciation
for, and I and I even thinkabout my own, my own story in
college where I was like, yeah,you know, let's just, let's just
graduate so we can make thatleap, get out of here Right and
(16:21):
and and yet there's, there's,there's some calling involved in
keeping you where you are Rightand so um and so I.
I definitely that resonateswith me deeply.
But you mentioned InterVarsity,kind of uh, really kind of
meeting you exactly where youneeded to be as it relates to
multi-ethnic ministry.
Talk to me about what makesInterVarsity unique for you in
(16:41):
that particular element ofmulti-ethnic ministry and work.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, I mean I think the word, that what really
attracted me was theintentionality, and so I think
that InterVarsity at SouthernMiss was actually the first in
the sixties, when it firststarted, was like the first
multi-ethnic anything on thatcampus, and so there was a
(17:06):
fellowship and they were veryintentional and I've had the
honor to be able to connect withthe, the, the people that were
started that.
So shout out to Bill Lowry andMelvin Miller who were part of
(17:36):
that, randy and Kathy Pope theywere part of that.
Miller, he had to be a blackman in the university to get to
certain churches.
He had to like see if he caneven come.
Oh, he can't.
So he had to go and navigateand figure out another spot and
that, right there, like knowingthe history of that, I didn't
know that at first, but that washow it was bathed, right,
(17:59):
that's how it was birthed and so, so, yeah, so as a student, it
was very intentional.
I think one of the things thathelped me as a student in just
affirming my ethnic identity wasthe as the intentionality.
It was also very important tounderstand who we are in our own
(18:20):
ethnicity.
I think that the scripture andone of my mentors he's got the
book called being Latino inChrist, orlando Crespo, and he's
a.
He's a.
He's on staff in the book hetalks about he says.
That passage that says loveyour neighbor as yourself
(18:43):
implies something about it asyourself Love.
You have to love yourself, loveyour whole self, and part of
that is loving your ethnic self.
That's who God made you.
So love your neighbor as youlove yourself.
You have to learn how to loveyourself so that you can be able
to love others, and I thinkthat's where the bridges become,
(19:03):
that you're able to accuratelybuild bridges.
And so what InterVarsity did forme believe it or not was help
me to be affirmed in my ethnicidentity and as I learned who I
was as a young Black man inAmerica, I learned my voice is
valuable and I learned how to beable to bridge conversations.
(19:23):
That I don't have to not be me.
I can be authentically me.
But as I know my value, thenwhen people, whether they like
it or not, if they're differentthan me, I can embrace it, I can
learn it, I can encourage it,and I think that's part of that
(19:45):
process.
And so, as a student, that'ssomething that I learned from
some national conferences andsome, you know, continuing
mentors that poured into me,like I mentioned.
That helped me, and so that'sjust a value that I started
bringing, as I decided to workfull-time with InterVarsity.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, so I'm hearing a really neat theme.
So you were mentored by a lot ofpeople, multiple, multiple by
so many people.
And I could just see it, man,through time being at a place
for 20 years, being able to seethe value that the place you
were at had for the decadesprior to your entry ever into
that particular ministry, man,and then you have also been able
(20:29):
to be a mentor to numerous ofother people, and I would just
love to hear about that aspectof your ministry how you've been
able to kind of take some ofthese kids I say kids, they're
college students, most of themare probably adults, but you
know these young people and justkind of mold them, some people
(20:53):
who were maybe in a similar lifepattern that you have been,
maybe some cementees that you'vehad who were just, uh, that
you've, you've.
You don't know where they'recoming from, necessarily from an
experiential way, but you canstill embrace them, um, as, uh,
just participants in the kingdomof God.
Yeah, so, uh, so how's, how'sthat particular aspect of your
ministry, uh, have you seen thatunfold?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
No, that's, that's a great, great question.
I think that's where, uh, therehas been so many different um
generations over the last.
You know, I've been full-time15 plus uh, maybe like 16, 17
and uh in ministry in Jacksonand, yeah, I've, I've seen a lot
of different people over theyears and so, uh, one of the
(21:46):
things that I got, I think Irecently, um, I was like I was
watching or visiting the churchonce and I was seeing someone
that was leading worshipvisiting the church once and I
was seeing someone that wasleading worship and I was like I
remember conversations I hadwith this person when they were
struggling on campus.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That is awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I was just like I was .
I was brought to tears justseeing them impact an entire
congregation with theirvulnerability, with their
honesty, with their authenticity.
And then I was scrolling onFacebook the other day and I saw
another alum that was, you knowsharing her story.
It was a virtual church andthey were screening I could see
(22:39):
it virtually, but they were likejust filming and so she was
just about to teach a juniorchurch and she was excited about
pouring into the children andshe was mentioning her impact
and the impact that InterVarsitymade on her life when she was a
student and I remember when shegot saved.
It's like I remember that.
And so you know, yeah, it's somuch like I don't always get to
(23:08):
see the results.
Ministry is tough, it is noteasy, and I think you know many
people.
Often you know we would jokearound it's like I just
basically quit every day, likeit's like, you know, I've, I've
(23:28):
been stood up, I've beenrejected, I've been, I've been,
you know, tried and tried andlike, okay, figuring out.
I remember just like Lord,why'd you even call me to do
this?
Like, oh, my goodness, and Imean I've been, I've seen.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, dude, I asked that question like yesterday.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's that question within this conversation Like oh
my goodness.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
So much, and so you know I think it, but it does
warm my heart when you know,when I have the honor to be able
to see an alum pour back outinto other people, that's really
(24:15):
what it's all about for me.
Like I think that you knowJesus, his interest in and I was
sharing this with students.
Actually, we did a leadershiptraining Saturday and I was
training some leaders across thearea and was reminded of when
Jesus we talked about Jesuswashing the feet of the
disciples and he specificallysaid, in the same way, you see
(24:35):
me, wash your feet, wash eachother's feet the image of Jesus
was he poured out into those 12and he want them to pour out,
and they pour out and they pourout and like even Jesus, like
feeding the 5000, it's like yougive them something to eat, like
there's an idea of himempowering other people to do
(24:55):
the work and to serve and tolove, and it's a deep level of
leadership and discipleship.
And so, like my, whatencourages me the most is not
someone saying Smiley told methis.
What encourages me the most issomeone else teaching someone
else what the Lord said, and I'mlike I remember the
conversation we had about that.
(25:16):
So, like that's the kind oflike.
I'm like, oh man, this is, thisis encouraging to me.
So, so, yeah, I can, I can giveyou stories.
I won't give anybody's names,but that's definitely encouraged
by that.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Hey, staying in that vein, man, talk to us about what
you see as the next generation,their movement towards
reconciliation, work, pursuitsin unity.
I mean, it looks different.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
It looked different in my generation, generation to
generation.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It looked different in the boomer generation.
Obviously it looked different,but the work continues and it's
ongoing.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
So talk to me a little bit about what you're
seeing as that unique space thatthey're involved in as a
relation to reconciliation, hasseen the rigid lines of division
and basically want to blur themas much as possible, because
they see how much, how muchpolarization hurts, and so their
(26:12):
active response to that islet's blur the lines as much as
possible so that we can figureout how to not be so divided.
They ultimately don't want tobe divided, that's that's it
Like, and I think that's whatI'm seeing, and I think that the
church has an answer to that.
And but really, Really, Ibelieve the church has an
(26:39):
opportunity to learn somethingfrom this generation.
This generation, becausethey're doing something that you
know we will immediately rejectfor whatever reasons, like well
, they're not following Jesusthis way.
But there's something, there'ssome truth in what they're, what
they're desiring to do breaking, breaking the dividing wall of
(27:00):
hostility.
I think that's in the Bible.
So there's something there'ssomething that this generation
is doing that.
I think that's in the Bible, sothere's something that this
generation is doing that I thinkis biblical, that the church
can learn from, and so they'redoing it.
I think that some of the thingsthat when they don't see it in
the church which that's thechallenge, because I think that,
(27:23):
in essence, the church wants tobe united the challenge because
I think that in the in essence,the church wants to be united.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Like.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I don't think anybody wakes up and say I don't want
it, I don't, I don't want tojust be united.
I think that it's just thatword that I told you earlier.
Intentionality, Um, that's key,and I think that when we don't
have that intentionality, wejust naturally go to our polar
opposite worlds and so um.
So yeah, I think that in thethat, as far as this generation,
they're making attempts,they're figuring it out and
they're not necessarily lookingat the church to do it.
(27:51):
But I do think that it's anopportunity where we can, as a
church, can come with an openarm and with, like Jesus said to
the disciples, like no bag, noclothes, like no spare, know no
food, and eat what's set beforeus.
Can we, as a church, eat whatthe generation sets before us
(28:11):
and become community and connect?
That?
There's an opportunity wherethat's how we can evangelize and
connect with this generation.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, man, hey, along that line, smiley as we turn
the corner, man, and kind ofkind of wrap this thing up, help
, help the church in the senseof can you give us a few
tangible ways that the churchcan really connect to the next
generation in a healthy way?
That will, that will lead to usleaning into these
(28:39):
opportunities versus versus.
Squandering is, uh, squandering.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
No, that's a great question, uh, and you know, I
think that you know, I thinksomeone asked me a while ago.
I was like, do they care if I'mtoo old?
Like, do college students think, you know, if I got, do I have
to be younger for them toconnect with me?
And honestly, um, it doesn'tmatter how old you are, uh, what
(29:07):
matters is authenticity.
Uh, the thing is, thisgeneration can fact check you in
two seconds, like two seconds.
You preach a sermon and you saysomething wrong.
They will, they will be able tofind the answer in two seconds
and give you a whole explanationof how it's wrong, you know.
(29:31):
And so I think that's whereit's like, you gotta be real,
and I think that, um, that's somuch more valuable than trying
to look right, trying to lookpolished, you know, and I think
that, like the millennialgeneration, we, we cared about
more of the polished.
That's my generation, like'skind of that.
But this generation, the mostviral videos aren't the ones
(29:53):
that are the most polished,they're the ones that are hands
on the phone, talking andtelling a real story, because
they care about the real,authentic.
So my challenge to the churchis be real, authentic and, you
know, not try to pretend, nottry to be fake, and a way that
we do that is by beingvulnerable by, you know, and I
(30:17):
think in those, you know,nonjudgmental spaces and
conversations, that's wherepeople care and that's where
they have value, and you gowhere they are like, you connect
and so, like there there's.
We had an opportunity just lastweek at jackson state where um
I partnered with um, the uhlynch street coalition of um,
bridging the gap, um inministries, and so we invited
(30:40):
yeah yes, shout out, uh.
So we, we grabbed, we gatheredchurches from all over the Lint
Street corridor and a few othersand just I brought them on
campus and was like get a tent,share, like connect.
And students after and duringwas like can we do this more
often?
How often can we do this?
Like they were so excited aboutthe opportunity to connect with
(31:02):
others that are outside oftheir fellow, outside of the
campus, and it was like thechurch, there's love, there's
peace, there's the fruit of thespirit.
That's there and I think thatis where we can be authentic
right.
That's the example, fruit ofthe spirit.
If we can show love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
gentleness, faithfulness andself-control, then that's how we
connect to this generation thatthat's my best advice.
(31:25):
I don't got nothing else.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's really good advice, brother.
That's really good advice, man.
I'm reminded of another quote.
It's amazing how many quotesI'm reminded of while I'm on a
podcast with Smiley and Austin.
You guys inspire me.
But I'm reminded of anotherquote that's been shared often
in spaces, been shared often, um, in spaces that I frequent, and
it's this uh, authenticity isthe apologetic of the day.
(31:49):
Um, that, that, that for thisparticular day, that oftentimes
what they need to see, um, um,above a lot of things, what they
need to see is an authenticportrayal of a Christian.
You know just somebody thatthat has a real Christian life.
It's not, it's not an excuse tojust kind of, you know, fumble
(32:11):
around and live, live and livein unrighteousness and squalor
just for the sake of living init.
Right, but it is an invitationto say, hey, I don't have to
have all the answers, I don'thave to have all the polish Um,
and so sometimes it's okay forme to say I don't have to have
all the polish.
And so sometimes it's okay forme to say I don't know.
Sometimes it's okay for me tosay yeah, yeah, I struggle there
too.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And Jesus is at work in me there and I'm pursuing his
, I'm trusting in hisrighteousness while I'm
continuing to pursue holiness inthat space, you know.
But they just need to see areal example of a Christian and
it seems to be resonating morethan ever, and so thank you for
affirming that brother for us,man, it's been incredible.
(32:55):
Man, how can people keep upwith Smiley Abrams, man?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, yeah, you can look me up on Instagram
SmileyJason.
Underscore my website,smileyjasoncom, or my other, my
other, my nonprofit that Istarted in honor of my father,
the Andy Abrams Foundation dotorg, so
wwwAndyAbramsFoundationorg orthat you can just follow that on
(33:19):
Instagram as well.
So that's the best way.
And you can look me up ondifferent books.
Smiley Abrams on Amazon is fourbooks, five almost.
I got another one coming outsoon, so Fantastic man,
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Thank you so much for your time and thank you to all
of our listeners and supportersof this podcast.
Feel free to share it.
You can go to Living Reconciledon any podcast app and you'll
typically find us LivingReconciled by Mission
Mississippi.
Feel free to like, subscribe,share with friends and family.
If you would like to supportthe work of Mission Mississippi
or this podcast, feel free to goto Mission Mississippi dot o r
(33:56):
g.
Again, mission Mississippi doto r g.
Click on the invest button atthe top right on the website and
that will get you to the rightplace so that you can support
this continuing work ofreconciliation in this state of
Mississippi and beyond.
Again, smiley, it's beenincredible man.
Thank you so much, brother.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Thank you, it's an honor.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Absolutely, and on behalf of myself, my good good
friend Austin Hoyle.
This is Brian Crawford signingoff saying God bless, god bless,
thanks for joining, livingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(34:40):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford,hanging out with my friend
(00:33):
Austin Hoyle, the good doctor,sir how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, I'm good.
I got my tea.
It's Monday afternoon, justtrying to, trying to get back
into the swing of work after aweekend of relaxation trying to
get back into the swing of workafter a weekend of relaxation.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, and of course, we're not video, we're audio
podcast, so people don't get achance to see what I see, which
is the good doctor with a gooddoctor's lean.
You have the posture today of agood doctor holding on to a cup
of tea, leaned and lounging,like you're preparing to say
something profound and deep, andso it's good man, it's good.
Looks like you're preparing tosay something profound and deep,
and so it's good man, it's good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Looks like I'm preparing to say something
profound and deep.
We'll see if that happens.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We'll see if that happens.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Hey.
Also thanks to our goodsponsors.
We are so incredibly gratefulfor all of you, folks like
Nissan, st Dominic's BrownMissionary Baptist Church, folks
like Ann Winters and RobertWard.
Thank you, guys, so much forwhat you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and today, what we are doingis talking to an incredible
(01:36):
friend, an incredible leader, anincredible thinker, a gentleman
by the name of Jason SmileyAbrams.
By the name of Jason SmileyAbrams, he is an inspirational
speaker and poet, currentlylives in the Mississippi and
serves as the area ministrydirector for InterVarsity
Christian Fellowship, where hesupervises college ministry in
(01:56):
the entire state of Mississippi,memphis and West Florida.
Jason has been oh, smiley hasbeen involved in full-time
ministry since 2008.
Um, he is the co-founder of theAndy Abrams Foundation, which
is a nonprofit in honor of hislate father.
Smiley is a prolific uh author.
He is a prolific thinker, uhspoken word artist.
(02:19):
Um, you, you, even again, forthose of y'all who can't see the
video, if you saw the video,you would know that we were in
the presence of an artist justby looking at his rig and we got
a goodness.
It's set up, his podcast set up, and so we are incredibly
grateful to have uh smiley um onliving reconciled today.
Smiley brother, how are youdoing?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
it is good to be here .
Thank you so much for theinvitation and the introduction.
I really appreciate you readingmy bio from my website.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So that was good.
That's right, Absolutely.
It's a good bio brother.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's a great bio.
I appreciate it.
Yeah, I was like I don't knowso much about.
Oh yeah, so my, it's my website, so yeah, public information.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I just Googled.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It is publicly accessible.
It's publicly accessible, man.
Let's start by just talking alittle bit about Smiley Abrams.
Man, why don't you tell us alittle bit about your story, how
you came to faith in story?
A lot of it has come from theorigin of my name.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
So people often would ask me is that your real name,
smiley?
It is a name that I say, thatGod changed my name to Smiley
and it's a part of my story, sothat's the best way to introduce
myself is by introducing youwho I am, and so, really, I say
that I'm born, raised and calledto the state of Mississippi,
and, just being aroundMississippi all of my life, I
(03:52):
know that I was.
I grew up in a intentionallymulti-ethnic community called
Voice of Calvary.
My parents were active leadersin that when I was like two, and
so they were both active in thecommunity, and so I grew up in
that world, and but I think thatI say that I used to think the
(04:13):
world revolved around me.
See, I'm the youngest, and Isay they got it right the third
time, and so I think that whathappened, though, is I had a lot
of self-righteous pride, and soI'm an achiever.
I try to get you know all thebest of competition in my top 10
(04:34):
is against me, and thatwhoever's in my class, I was
like I got to get, I got to bethe best, and I think that fed
my pride and my ego.
I believe those guys grace thatallowed me to be a part of my
family, and one of the thingsthat really helped shift my
mindset when the world stoppedrevolving around me was when my
(04:56):
father got sick, and so it wasabout spring break 96, where he
went into the hospital and waspretty much out for almost a
week and his body just began tochange.
He went blind, he was diagnosedwith diabetes, his kidney
started failing, and all of thathappened.
He was in the middle, doingministry full time in the
(05:18):
community in West Jackson, andthen all of a sudden he's
basically bedridden, and so, inresponse, our family shifted
things, and so one of the shiftswas putting me in a homeschool,
and so during that time sixth,seventh and eighth grade I was
homeschooled and I spent timewith my father because he was at
(05:38):
home doing dialysis at home,and so I began to watch the
power of God in his life, and Ithink that in the prime, pivotal
time of a middle school ageperson, you know, unless you're
11, 12 years old, you'refiguring out who you are, and as
I'm figuring out who I am, I'mwatching my father really
(06:01):
wrestle with just sickness andjust feeling hopeless of like.
You know, I'm supposed to bethis provider of my family and
now my baby son is taking careof me and I'm seeing, at the
same time, a peace in his heartbecause of his intimate
relationship with Jesus, and itwas like, ok, that's what I want
(06:24):
.
I want that for me, I want thispeace, I want this, this
intimacy.
I knew God, I knew about God, Iknew the books in the Bible, I
knew I could quote, you know,scripture verses, since I was
like two, three of those firstwords, like those are things
that I knew.
But relationship is what I sawwhen everything else was
stripped away, when everythingwasn't about performance,
(06:45):
because I thought in my mind, Ithought that my faith or
religion was about performance,because I would, you know, in
order to do all the good thingsand do all the say all the books
in the Bible, do everything youperform.
But now my father's at home andthere's nobody watching him but
me, and it's a relationship,it's something that can god be
the one that gives you peace,even when the when the world is
(07:08):
turmoil.
And when I saw that, I was likethat's jesus, I want to follow
jesus and I fell in love withjesus, and so the response and
reaction to that was um, really,and I would say, when I say god
changed my name, it was a shiftbecause, in response, I had
this joy I met Jesus and I foundthe joy internally and I
started expressing it outwardlyby wearing smiley face
(07:30):
paraphernalia, yellow t-shirt.
I had yellow smiley faceeverything and honestly, I
didn't even notice it too much.
It just happened until someone,about three or four years later
, because I'm wearing it everyday all the time, I knew it was
my favorite.
But then someone said, you know, we're going to start calling
you Smiley.
And I was like you know what?
It makes sense.
I'm wearing a smiley faceheadband.
(07:52):
You know I have armbands andsmiley face T-shirt.
You know lanyards, yellow pantsdriving a yellow car.
Like you know people like, oh,we're going to call you Smiley.
I was like, okay, that makessense.
And so I accepted it and I saidthat God was calling me that
(08:13):
because of the joy I had in myheart, and so that was so that's
that's me.
And so I think that in I metJesus in that time period and I
started pursuing him, and sothat's kind of that, that
specific journey so around Iwould say, between that middle
school time is when I reallystarted pursuing Jesus and
wanted to just keep going andwanted to do more.
I can tell more about my, mycalling in ministry as well, but
(08:34):
I'll pause for a second toprocess with you guys what you
as you're, as you're talkingabout my story.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I really
heard most poignantly poignantlycome from what you were saying.
I I guess because I likepicking up on the theological
stuff but it's like you wereable to smile even amidst the
tumult of that period because ofwhat you saw your father going
through, that, uh, even thoughhe had gotten sick, uh, and he
(09:02):
was obviously suffering greatly,he was able to pass that on to
you guys.
You know, pass that joy on toyou guys, that sense of peace on
to y'all.
I just found that just aremarkable aspect of your story.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Because it's not just because you know.
Sometimes, when we you know,when we hear of peace and joy,
we think our circumstances haveto be perfect or we think that
it's just something of our ownmaking, it's a mindset that we.
But from what I'm hearing ofyour story, it's something that
is just a gift from God that wasable to be bestowed upon you,
(09:42):
and you were able, and you werein a place where you could
receive that.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, man, I'm, you know, first of all, smiley man.
It's really the first time I'veheard, of course, I understood
the you know, the early passingof your father man, but it's
really the first time I've heardyou actually unpack it in this
way.
Um, and and I'm, I'm reminded oftwo things.
One, uh, this quote that thatI've heard um shared a few times
(10:09):
, where, uh, where it says, outof suffering have emerged the
strongest souls and the mostmassive characters are seared
with scars, and that's one thingthat stands out to me.
But the other thing that reallystands out to me, bro, is just
how suffering has a profound,has a way of deep cause our
(10:31):
faith to be diminished, andthere's a sense in which it can.
But I've seen the other side ofthis over and over again, even
in my own story with my father,with my father's early passing,
glioblastoma, brain cancer isthat it had a way of deepening
my faith in ways that I don'tthink it could have ever been
(10:54):
deepened without the experienceof suffering that I had to watch
and observe and see thefaithfulness, the faithfulness
of my father to Jesus, even inthe midst of his struggle.
Right, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
No, that's good, that's good.
That quote that you shared wasreally interesting and it kind
of it's.
It echoes the quote.
That quote from my father.
In one of his sermons hepreached.
He was like out of yourweakness comes strength, and out
of our suffering comes power.
And so thinking about SecondCorinthians and seeing the just
(11:29):
the powerful transformation ofeven Paul's thorn in his side is
like.
This is like if I'm a boastabout something, I'm a boast
about my weakness, and I thinkthat's where we can see that our
bodies are made to do that.
Like no pain, no gain, likethere's something about our
physical bodies that Goddesigned that allows literally
the breaking of muscles to buildthem, like that's how it's
(11:51):
designed.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah.
My wife's favorite passage ofscripture man is and of course
passage of scripture man is andof course, for right reasons,
she battles with a number ofdifferent ailments.
But her favorite passage ofscripture is that 2 Corinthians
12, man, where Paul says when Iam weak then I am strong because
of the power of Christ that isperfected in me through my
(12:14):
weakness.
And so then, like you said, thenI'll boast in my suffering,
because I know that Christ ispresent, I know that he's near
and I know he's operatingpowerfully even in the midst of
my weakness and my suffering,man, and so, yeah, that's
incredible, brother, that'sincredible Um.
So you made a transition intoministry, um, and and, and.
(12:35):
This ministry is primarilycollegiate, but you had your own
college awakening, so to speak.
Yeah, that formed some of thatministry.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, I think I mean specifically my, I would say,
calling to ministry isinteresting, and so a lot of
people, and this is when Iintroduced myself.
I say I'm born, raised andcalled to Mississippi.
A lot of that's part of myinitial calling.
(13:07):
So just thinking about is ayear after my father passed, and
I'm asking the Lord.
I'm 17 years old and I'mfasting and praying and I'm
asking the Lord what do you wantme to be when I grow up?
It's like I was tired of peoplealways asking me like, what do
you want to be when you grow up?
I was like I really want toknow what the Lord wants me to
be.
And so, um, as I was sitting ingeography class, uh, I remember,
(13:29):
um, it just came to me likeIsaiah 61.
I'm think I'm studying Isaiahat the time and it's like Isaiah
61 was like a click, like thespirit of the Lord is on you, to
preach good news to the poor,to bind up the brokenhearted, to
proclaim freedom for thecaptives.
I know like this is what I wassupposed to do with my life.
In the same time, I rememberone of my mentors, dr Dauphus
(13:50):
Weary, was speaking at a studentcouncil convention for the
state of Mississippi and it wasjust a generic student council
thing, not a specific religiousthing, but just a generic
student council thing.
And I was a part of the studentcouncil.
I'm figuring out what I'm doingin my life and he talks about
his story and he says you know,most people in Mississippi you
(14:14):
know success is leaving, and Iknow that I was thinking about
that.
I'm like thinking about myticket out.
You know, like figuring out howto get out of Mississippi
that's really what mostMississippians think about.
And so I'm like how can I getout Under a certain age?
So yeah, and so how do I get out?
But he said in his story, hisbook I ain't coming back, right,
(14:36):
that's the standard, right, soit's OK.
But he was challenged and hesaid and he challenged the
entire group he's like if youdon't pour back into the place
that poured into you, then whowill?
And so at that point I'm reallylike Lord, like what do you
want me to be?
And I'm like, oh, okay, I needto pour back into the place that
poured into me.
Ok, I need to pour back intothe place that poured into me.
(14:57):
And so that was really myinitial calling and I have held
on to that since day one ofcollege.
I was looking for I preached myfirst sermon the day before I
graduated high school.
It was the baccalaureateservice and I challenged the
audience and continue tochallenge, to find campus
ministries, find mentors,connect with people, pour into
(15:19):
people and have them pour intoyou.
Like.
I was like mentorship was ahuge thing for me.
And so when I went off tocollege I knew I was like I need
to find a community.
So before I even confirmed mymajor, I was looking for two
things.
On a college ministry, I wantedsomething that could develop me
as a leader and I wantedsomething that was intentionally
multi-ethnic and InterVarsity.
(15:54):
Christian Fellowship atSouthern Miss was that, and so
day one.
You know, it wasn't a debate,it wasn't a figuring out, it
wasn't a you know, walk through,try it.
I'm like.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
InterVarsity.
This is the one I'm here and 21years later, I that journey,
that inner varsity I mean youspoke specifically about, like
you said, being being present,being here, being in the state,
remaining in the SIP, which Ihave an incredible appreciation
for, and I and I even thinkabout my own, my own story in
college where I was like, yeah,you know, let's just, let's just
graduate so we can make thatleap, get out of here Right and
(16:21):
and and yet there's, there's,there's some calling involved in
keeping you where you are Rightand so um and so I.
I definitely that resonateswith me deeply.
But you mentioned InterVarsity,kind of uh, really kind of
meeting you exactly where youneeded to be as it relates to
multi-ethnic ministry.
Talk to me about what makesInterVarsity unique for you in
(16:41):
that particular element ofmulti-ethnic ministry and work.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, I mean I think the word, that what really
attracted me was theintentionality, and so I think
that InterVarsity at SouthernMiss was actually the first in
the sixties, when it firststarted, was like the first
multi-ethnic anything on thatcampus, and so there was a
(17:06):
fellowship and they were veryintentional and I've had the
honor to be able to connect withthe, the, the people that were
started that.
So shout out to Bill Lowry andMelvin Miller who were part of
(17:36):
that, randy and Kathy Pope theywere part of that.
Miller, he had to be a blackman in the university to get to
certain churches.
He had to like see if he caneven come.
Oh, he can't.
So he had to go and navigateand figure out another spot and
that, right there, like knowingthe history of that, I didn't
know that at first, but that washow it was bathed, right,
(17:59):
that's how it was birthed and so, so, yeah, so as a student, it
was very intentional.
I think one of the things thathelped me as a student in just
affirming my ethnic identity wasthe as the intentionality.
It was also very important tounderstand who we are in our own
(18:20):
ethnicity.
I think that the scripture andone of my mentors he's got the
book called being Latino inChrist, orlando Crespo, and he's
a.
He's a.
He's on staff in the book hetalks about he says.
That passage that says loveyour neighbor as yourself
(18:43):
implies something about it asyourself Love.
You have to love yourself, loveyour whole self, and part of
that is loving your ethnic self.
That's who God made you.
So love your neighbor as youlove yourself.
You have to learn how to loveyourself so that you can be able
to love others, and I thinkthat's where the bridges become,
(19:03):
that you're able to accuratelybuild bridges.
And so what InterVarsity did forme believe it or not was help
me to be affirmed in my ethnicidentity and as I learned who I
was as a young Black man inAmerica, I learned my voice is
valuable and I learned how to beable to bridge conversations.
(19:23):
That I don't have to not be me.
I can be authentically me.
But as I know my value, thenwhen people, whether they like
it or not, if they're differentthan me, I can embrace it, I can
learn it, I can encourage it,and I think that's part of that
(19:45):
process.
And so, as a student, that'ssomething that I learned from
some national conferences andsome, you know, continuing
mentors that poured into me,like I mentioned.
That helped me, and so that'sjust a value that I started
bringing, as I decided to workfull-time with InterVarsity.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, so I'm hearing a really neat theme.
So you were mentored by a lot ofpeople, multiple, multiple by
so many people.
And I could just see it, man,through time being at a place
for 20 years, being able to seethe value that the place you
were at had for the decadesprior to your entry ever into
that particular ministry, man,and then you have also been able
(20:29):
to be a mentor to numerous ofother people, and I would just
love to hear about that aspectof your ministry how you've been
able to kind of take some ofthese kids I say kids, they're
college students, most of themare probably adults, but you
know these young people and justkind of mold them, some people
(20:53):
who were maybe in a similar lifepattern that you have been,
maybe some cementees that you'vehad who were just, uh, that
you've, you've.
You don't know where they'recoming from, necessarily from an
experiential way, but you canstill embrace them, um, as, uh,
just participants in the kingdomof God.
Yeah, so, uh, so how's, how'sthat particular aspect of your
ministry, uh, have you seen thatunfold?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
No, that's, that's a great, great question.
I think that's where, uh, therehas been so many different um
generations over the last.
You know, I've been full-time15 plus uh, maybe like 16, 17
and uh in ministry in Jacksonand, yeah, I've, I've seen a lot
of different people over theyears and so, uh, one of the
(21:46):
things that I got, I think Irecently, um, I was like I was
watching or visiting the churchonce and I was seeing someone
that was leading worshipvisiting the church once and I
was seeing someone that wasleading worship and I was like I
remember conversations I hadwith this person when they were
struggling on campus.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
That is awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
I was just like I was .
I was brought to tears justseeing them impact an entire
congregation with theirvulnerability, with their
honesty, with their authenticity.
And then I was scrolling onFacebook the other day and I saw
another alum that was, you knowsharing her story.
It was a virtual church andthey were screening I could see
(22:39):
it virtually, but they were likejust filming and so she was
just about to teach a juniorchurch and she was excited about
pouring into the children andshe was mentioning her impact
and the impact that InterVarsitymade on her life when she was a
student and I remember when shegot saved.
It's like I remember that.
And so you know, yeah, it's somuch like I don't always get to
(23:08):
see the results.
Ministry is tough, it is noteasy, and I think you know many
people.
Often you know we would jokearound it's like I just
basically quit every day, likeit's like, you know, I've, I've
(23:28):
been stood up, I've beenrejected, I've been, I've been,
you know, tried and tried andlike, okay, figuring out.
I remember just like Lord,why'd you even call me to do
this?
Like, oh, my goodness, and Imean I've been, I've seen.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, dude, I asked that question like yesterday.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
It's that question within this conversation Like oh
my goodness.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
So much, and so you know I think it, but it does
warm my heart when you know,when I have the honor to be able
to see an alum pour back outinto other people, that's really
(24:15):
what it's all about for me.
Like I think that you knowJesus, his interest in and I was
sharing this with students.
Actually, we did a leadershiptraining Saturday and I was
training some leaders across thearea and was reminded of when
Jesus we talked about Jesuswashing the feet of the
disciples and he specificallysaid, in the same way, you see
(24:35):
me, wash your feet, wash eachother's feet the image of Jesus
was he poured out into those 12and he want them to pour out,
and they pour out and they pourout and like even Jesus, like
feeding the 5000, it's like yougive them something to eat, like
there's an idea of himempowering other people to do
(24:55):
the work and to serve and tolove, and it's a deep level of
leadership and discipleship.
And so, like my, whatencourages me the most is not
someone saying Smiley told methis.
What encourages me the most issomeone else teaching someone
else what the Lord said, and I'mlike I remember the
conversation we had about that.
(25:16):
So, like that's the kind oflike.
I'm like, oh man, this is, thisis encouraging to me.
So, so, yeah, I can, I can giveyou stories.
I won't give anybody's names,but that's definitely encouraged
by that.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Hey, staying in that vein, man, talk to us about what
you see as the next generation,their movement towards
reconciliation, work, pursuitsin unity.
I mean, it looks different.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
It looked different in my generation, generation to
generation.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
It looked different in the boomer generation.
Obviously it looked different,but the work continues and it's
ongoing.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
So talk to me a little bit about what you're
seeing as that unique space thatthey're involved in as a
relation to reconciliation, hasseen the rigid lines of division
and basically want to blur themas much as possible, because
they see how much, how muchpolarization hurts, and so their
(26:12):
active response to that islet's blur the lines as much as
possible so that we can figureout how to not be so divided.
They ultimately don't want tobe divided, that's that's it
Like, and I think that's whatI'm seeing, and I think that the
church has an answer to that.
And but really, Really, Ibelieve the church has an
(26:39):
opportunity to learn somethingfrom this generation.
This generation, becausethey're doing something that you
know we will immediately rejectfor whatever reasons, like well
, they're not following Jesusthis way.
But there's something, there'ssome truth in what they're, what
they're desiring to do breaking, breaking the dividing wall of
(27:00):
hostility.
I think that's in the Bible.
So there's something there'ssomething that this generation
is doing that.
I think that's in the Bible, sothere's something that this
generation is doing that I thinkis biblical, that the church
can learn from, and so they'redoing it.
I think that some of the thingsthat when they don't see it in
the church which that's thechallenge, because I think that,
(27:23):
in essence, the church wants tobe united the challenge because
I think that in the in essence,the church wants to be united.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Like.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I don't think anybody wakes up and say I don't want
it, I don't, I don't want tojust be united.
I think that it's just thatword that I told you earlier.
Intentionality, Um, that's key,and I think that when we don't
have that intentionality, wejust naturally go to our polar
opposite worlds and so um.
So yeah, I think that in thethat, as far as this generation,
they're making attempts,they're figuring it out and
they're not necessarily lookingat the church to do it.
(27:51):
But I do think that it's anopportunity where we can, as a
church, can come with an openarm and with, like Jesus said to
the disciples, like no bag, noclothes, like no spare, know no
food, and eat what's set beforeus.
Can we, as a church, eat whatthe generation sets before us
(28:11):
and become community and connect?
That?
There's an opportunity wherethat's how we can evangelize and
connect with this generation.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, man, hey, along that line, smiley as we turn
the corner, man, and kind ofkind of wrap this thing up, help
, help the church in the senseof can you give us a few
tangible ways that the churchcan really connect to the next
generation in a healthy way?
That will, that will lead to usleaning into these
(28:39):
opportunities versus versus.
Squandering is, uh, squandering.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
No, that's a great question, uh, and you know, I
think that you know, I thinksomeone asked me a while ago.
I was like, do they care if I'mtoo old?
Like, do college students think, you know, if I got, do I have
to be younger for them toconnect with me?
And honestly, um, it doesn'tmatter how old you are, uh, what
(29:07):
matters is authenticity.
Uh, the thing is, thisgeneration can fact check you in
two seconds, like two seconds.
You preach a sermon and you saysomething wrong.
They will, they will be able tofind the answer in two seconds
and give you a whole explanationof how it's wrong, you know.
(29:31):
And so I think that's whereit's like, you gotta be real,
and I think that, um, that's somuch more valuable than trying
to look right, trying to lookpolished, you know, and I think
that, like the millennialgeneration, we, we cared about
more of the polished.
That's my generation, like'skind of that.
But this generation, the mostviral videos aren't the ones
(29:53):
that are the most polished,they're the ones that are hands
on the phone, talking andtelling a real story, because
they care about the real,authentic.
So my challenge to the churchis be real, authentic and, you
know, not try to pretend, nottry to be fake, and a way that
we do that is by beingvulnerable by, you know, and I
(30:17):
think in those, you know,nonjudgmental spaces and
conversations, that's wherepeople care and that's where
they have value, and you gowhere they are like, you connect
and so, like there there's.
We had an opportunity just lastweek at jackson state where um
I partnered with um, the uhlynch street coalition of um,
bridging the gap, um inministries, and so we invited
(30:40):
yeah yes, shout out, uh.
So we, we grabbed, we gatheredchurches from all over the Lint
Street corridor and a few othersand just I brought them on
campus and was like get a tent,share, like connect.
And students after and duringwas like can we do this more
often?
How often can we do this?
Like they were so excited aboutthe opportunity to connect with
(31:02):
others that are outside oftheir fellow, outside of the
campus, and it was like thechurch, there's love, there's
peace, there's the fruit of thespirit.
That's there and I think thatis where we can be authentic
right.
That's the example, fruit ofthe spirit.
If we can show love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
gentleness, faithfulness andself-control, then that's how we
connect to this generation thatthat's my best advice.
(31:25):
I don't got nothing else.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
That's really good advice, brother.
That's really good advice, man.
I'm reminded of another quote.
It's amazing how many quotesI'm reminded of while I'm on a
podcast with Smiley and Austin.
You guys inspire me.
But I'm reminded of anotherquote that's been shared often
in spaces, been shared often, um, in spaces that I frequent, and
it's this uh, authenticity isthe apologetic of the day.
(31:49):
Um, that, that, that for thisparticular day, that oftentimes
what they need to see, um, um,above a lot of things, what they
need to see is an authenticportrayal of a Christian.
You know just somebody thatthat has a real Christian life.
It's not, it's not an excuse tojust kind of, you know, fumble
(32:11):
around and live, live and livein unrighteousness and squalor
just for the sake of living init.
Right, but it is an invitationto say, hey, I don't have to
have all the answers, I don'thave to have all the polish Um,
and so sometimes it's okay forme to say I don't have to have
all the polish.
And so sometimes it's okay forme to say I don't know.
Sometimes it's okay for me tosay yeah, yeah, I struggle there
too.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And Jesus is at work in me there and I'm pursuing his
, I'm trusting in hisrighteousness while I'm
continuing to pursue holiness inthat space, you know.
But they just need to see areal example of a Christian and
it seems to be resonating morethan ever, and so thank you for
affirming that brother for us,man, it's been incredible.
(32:55):
Man, how can people keep upwith Smiley Abrams, man?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, yeah, you can look me up on Instagram
SmileyJason.
Underscore my website,smileyjasoncom, or my other, my
other, my nonprofit that Istarted in honor of my father,
the Andy Abrams Foundation dotorg, so
wwwAndyAbramsFoundationorg orthat you can just follow that on
(33:19):
Instagram as well.
So that's the best way.
And you can look me up ondifferent books.
Smiley Abrams on Amazon is fourbooks, five almost.
I got another one coming outsoon, so Fantastic man,
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Thank you so much for your time and thank you to all
of our listeners and supportersof this podcast.
Feel free to share it.
You can go to Living Reconciledon any podcast app and you'll
typically find us LivingReconciled by Mission
Mississippi.
Feel free to like, subscribe,share with friends and family.
If you would like to supportthe work of Mission Mississippi
or this podcast, feel free to goto Mission Mississippi dot o r
(33:56):
g.
Again, mission Mississippi doto r g.
Click on the invest button atthe top right on the website and
that will get you to the rightplace so that you can support
this continuing work ofreconciliation in this state of
Mississippi and beyond.
Again, smiley, it's beenincredible man.
Thank you so much, brother.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Thank you, it's an honor.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Absolutely, and on behalf of myself, my good good
friend Austin Hoyle.
This is Brian Crawford signingoff saying God bless, god bless,
thanks for joining, livingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(34:40):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com