May 7, 2025 • 47 mins
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From childhood mission learner to Director of Multicultural Ministries, Paula Smith’s journey is a powerful testimony to the beauty of mutual learning in cross-cultural ministry. In this episode, Paula shares how experiences—from Uruguay to Mississippi—reshaped her view of reconciliation, moving from a one-way model to true partnership. With practical insights and heartfelt stories, she reminds us that real change starts with simple steps: a smile, eye contact, and shared humanity. Tune in for wisdom on living reconciled in a diverse world.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford,with my co-host and incredible
(00:35):
friend, nettie Winters.
Sir, how are you doing today?
I'm wonderful, and you, I amdoing fantastic.
It's always good to have you onthe podcast.
I'm always good to have somegood conversations with good
friends, which we have one today, paula Smith, but we'll talk to
Paula in just a second.
We do want to give a quickshout out to our sponsors, folks
(00:55):
like Nissan, st Dominic'sHospital, atmos Energy Regions
Foundation, mississippi College,anderson United, grace Temple
Church, mississippi StateUniversity, real Christian
Foundation, brown MissionaryBaptist Christian Life Church,
ms Doris Powell, robert Ward andWinters.
Thank you all so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
.
And, by the way, if you wouldlike to join this illustrious
(01:19):
list of sponsors, you can do soby visiting Mission Mississippi,
clicking on the donate button.
That is againmissionmississippiorg clicking
on the donate button and you canjoin this group of sponsors in
helping us host this podcast,living Reconciled which, by the
way, is all about reconciliation, and that's why I can be more
(01:41):
excited to talk to our guestsfor today.
Ms Paula Smith.
Ms Paula Smith is an incredibleleader.
With the Mississippi Baptist,she started the job as the
Director of MulticulturalMinistries in September of 2022.
However, ms Smith has been inthe missionary field.
(02:03):
She spent 10 years with IMB.
She also spent some time withthe Women's Missionary Union for
15 years, but she is now withthe Multicultural Ministries and
we will allow her to talk toyou about that and what it all
entails.
But nonetheless, we would loveto introduce to you Ms Paula
Smith.
Paula, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
today I'm doing great .
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Absolutely.
We're incredibly grateful forthe opportunity.
Your story is one that we wouldlove for our Living Reconciled
listeners to hear, and so, withthat said, I would love for you
to just get started by tellingus a little bit about it.
How did you tell us a littlebit about your story as it
relates to how you came to faithand, in particular, how your
faith crossed over into thespace of reconciliation and
(02:48):
generate the passion that youhave currently?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, well, it started early.
I was four.
Our church little bitty, littlebitty town church I think we
had maybe 100.
And Danny pastored that churchand we had mission organizations
when and Danny pastored thatchurch and we had mission
organizations when I was alittle girl and I had the best
(03:11):
teacher.
Her name was Alva, but she hadall the little kids call her
Alvu and so we were special toher.
But we were also specialbecause she let us take our
shoes off when we got there andshe had this big old map and
she'd put down on the floor andplay the music and when the
music stopped, where our big toeon our right foot was was the
(03:33):
country we studied about and ifwe happened to be in the water,
we just swam to the nearestcountry.
But that's where I learned earlyand I distinctly remember this
as a kid, thinking through this,I learned from Alvu that Jesus
loves me.
I knew that because Alvu lovedme and she told me and I trusted
(03:58):
her.
I learned that Jesus loved allthe little children all over the
world, that Jesus loved all thelittle children all over the
world.
I remember being shocked when Irealized not all the little
children all over the world knowthat and I thought what's the
matter?
Don't they have an alvoo totell them that?
But the fourth thing that Ilearned and it was real to me at
(04:20):
four years old I can tell them,I can go tell them, and so
that's kind of how I got started.
My parents were a majorinfluence on me and my whole
family and just, we hadmissionaries in our home, we had
invited guests.
(04:40):
I mean, we lived in a littletown, there were no hotels, so
everybody stayed with us, whichwas an absolute delight to me,
Right right.
So we had lots of dear friendsthat would come and stay and
talk about their ministries inthe area in Mississippi but also
across the world.
(05:00):
When I was 10, I accepted Jesusas my Savior.
I realized that I'm the sinner,I'm the one that needs His
saving power.
When I was 12, I felt thedistinct, very distinct call
into international missions.
(05:21):
So of course we wrote theInternational Mission.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Board when you were 12 years old.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, Amazing.
You know Chip Henderson, overat Pine Lake.
His dad pastored a motherchurch close to us, right there
in another town, really close,and we all did our New Year's
Eve party together the youth ofthe church, and we were praying
(05:49):
in the new year, the year I was12.
And Gene Henderson was talkingto us about surrendering
everything and I thought Ithought I did that.
I thought I did that and I wenthome from there thinking I
wonder what he meant by that.
And through the night God'sSpirit just worked with me and I
(06:11):
remember my niece, who is myage.
I have nieces and nephews olderthan I am, but she and I are
the same age.
We were all together at that.
And I remember just sitting upin the bed, just exhausted and
going all right, I'll do it, youknow, just surrender, surrender
everything.
And my niece sat up and lookedat me and she said what is your
(06:34):
problem?
And I said I just told God thatI would be a missionary.
And she clapped and she saidwe've been praying for you.
And I thought how did I not knowthat?
So it was a very real, veryreal calling to me and I
insisted on writing theInternational Mission Board and
(06:56):
finding out what I was supposedto do.
And, of course, the first thingthey said probably should have
a few more birthdays and, youknow, let that happen, Right?
No, but I stayed in contactwith them all the way through
and it's just been a wonderfuljourney of all the different
(07:18):
countries I've gotten to be in.
And then, who would havedreamed that?
I never dreamed I'd get to comeback to Mississippi and work so
long here at home.
It's amazing, it's been fun, itis fun.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, it's amazing.
What do you consider, paula,just in that journey alone, the
experience on the mission fieldand working with the Women's
Missions Ministry what do youconsider to be the most, I guess
, rewarding part of that portionof your journey?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The relationships.
I think Even last night.
My dearest friend in the worldlives in Uruguay and we talk
often and I think all therelationships we still continue
(08:18):
in every country that I've beenin.
I still have people that wecommunicate often.
I still have people that wecommunicate often.
I learned so much on themission field, about
(08:39):
reconciliation, from being theminority you know in that
situation Pastor's wife.
I remember being so excited when, knowing God, came out Henry
Blackaby's, and, oh my goodness,we ordered everything in
Spanish.
We were so excited and Iremember running to my
preacher's wife and telling herman, this is you know everything
(09:01):
.
And she went.
Let me guess it's the greatestthing since sliced bread.
Oh goody, another, anotherthing you are going to bring to
us that will make us better andall this.
And and I went.
But it is, it's so wonderful,it's so good.
And I learned from her.
She, I loved her for this.
(09:21):
She taught me.
You know we're partners.
Nobody is.
You know we're teaching eachother, we are teaching each
other and I will forever be inher debt for that.
And I think that's where Ibegan to make the connection the
(09:41):
ground I've always heard thatphrase, the ground's level at
the cross, but I began tounderstand it then, I've been in
some situations where, becauseI'm American and even because
I'm white, I was spit on.
I was you know, I just didn't.
I've been in so many differentcountries but I think it's the
(10:04):
Lord's.
I don't know, this doesn'tsound humble, but the Lord
humbled me.
I've had to bloody my nose alot and just realizing people
are people, are people.
But I really, really appreciatemy pastor's wife for that.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
My God, I'm just thinking about what you just
said and it's humbling to evenhear it and I'm grateful to the
Lord that you're sharing it.
But just this idea that we'reteaching one another on this
journey.
It's so easy to acquireknowledge or, like you mentioned
(10:51):
, to kind of acquire that nextbook, that next piece of that
next bit of insight and to losesight of the reality that you
can still look across the aisleand find a person that maybe
didn't read all the same reality, that you can still look across
the aisle and find a personthat maybe didn't read all the
same books that you read, maybedidn't read any of them, but
still has an incredible amountto teach you if you want to
(11:14):
listen, yeah, yeah, if you'rewilling to listen and it's one
book I read recently talks aboutthe reality that everybody's
interesting if you're curiousenough just got to have your
ears open, your mouth closed andwilling to ask the right
questions.
So that's incredible.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthis journey into multicultural
(11:54):
ministries.
Just kind of hear not only howyou ended up in this space but
also some of the experiencesthat you've captured from this
space that you feel have beenjust rewarding or challenging or
stressful, or, you know, any ofthe above.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, it's really interesting how I got here.
It's really interesting how Igot here.
I had like said I had worked,for I came home from Uruguay
because I had a a brain aneurysmthing that the Lord just took
care of, but I needed to comehome.
I stayed here, helped take careof my mother and everything.
(12:37):
But the job opened up withWomen's Missionary Union here at
MBCB and absolutely it's rightup my alley.
It's what I do, what I love.
So again, I began to get alittle sick after about 15 years
and I just took earlyretirement and once I got well
(13:00):
but the Lord used that interimtime in there I couldn't do much
.
It was about four years and ofcourse COVID came in the middle
of all of that.
But I still just, it didn'tmatter if I had the job or not,
I wanted to do what God calledme to do, you know.
(13:23):
So we teach English as a secondlanguage.
You know, in many of thechurches in the metro area I was
on the board that, the taskforce that put together the
conferences and so forth and soon, and so part of that time I
just had to have the people.
So Friday nights became y'allcome nights, bring whatever food
(13:48):
you got and just come.
And we started inviting.
It started off with Christiansjust coming together to pray.
Then we said why don't we justinvite our friends that we meet
in ESL or that we meet throughintercultural fellowship?
Let's just invite our friends,you know.
So we started gettingChristians and non-Christians
(14:09):
and from.
I should have kept count of howmany different countries of
that I can go through and thinkover 20, I'm sure I can go
through and think over 20, I'msure African-American, ethiopia,
you know, and there's SouthAmerican countries, asian
countries, just everybody.
And so on Friday nightseverybody would come to the
(14:32):
house and we got to where wespecifically would invite
different ones, probably nevermore than 20, 25 there at a time
.
But when we invited them wesaid we're going to eat, yay,
and we're going to pray.
And so nobody upon nobodyrejected us praying.
(14:54):
But I'll never, never, everforget one young man that I
truly believed was a Christian.
He was Korean, I knew his wifewas a Christian, but when we
prayed we thought we were allChristians there After we prayed
, and he didn't participate inthat.
(15:17):
But after we prayed he said Idon't know what y'all have, but
I don't have it and I want it.
And the man from the Republicof Congo led him to Christ and
you know, just to watch how theLord just brings.
There's a quote in our Englishas a second language training.
(15:39):
It says God transcends culturesand he certainly does.
Wow, wow.
But the reason this job openedup is because COVID hit and my
income went away, because thepeople that I was teaching
English to their income wentaway, so I needed a job.
(15:59):
Their income went away, so Ineeded a job.
So I taught for a little whileat Bellhaven and at MC, just
English stuff.
And then I called MBCB and Isaid y'all got a job, you need
the yard mode.
Is there something I can do?
What can I do?
(16:20):
Plug me in and theirgraciousness.
I worked at Camp Garroway for awhile and came back and was a
ministry assistant here for awhile in different departments.
And so Dr Parker said we wantto start a multicultural
ministries department and I saidman, yes, I think that's
(16:43):
excellent.
And he said we don't have thedirector yet, but would you like
to be the ministry assistant?
I said I am so there, I can'twait.
So, they had me in here beforethere was a director, was a
(17:07):
director, and so in my mind Iknew that this overall ministry
would entail.
They were telling me we know wewant in here our black churches
, our African-American churches,of course, asian and deaf and
special needs adults and ourChoctaw Indians.
And so I went.
It doesn't get any better,that's just terrific.
(17:30):
So they told me.
They said well, you know, wethink we have somebody that was
going to be the director andwe're talking, we'll see.
That was going to be thedirector and we're talking,
we'll see.
So do you mind, paula, if youjust send out a letter to
so-and-so, just kind of get us adatabase going, or whatever
like that.
So I just started doing stuffwith the connections that I
(17:56):
already had through the missions, organizations and all those
kinds of things and I don't know.
I think I worked something likehad to have been four months,
five months, something like that, without a director.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And I kept, you know, hoping, oh, I can't wait till
that director gets here andthink of what we can do.
Yay, and one day here comes twoguys in you know, and they said
we need to talk to you, andthey shut the door.
And I day here comes two guysin, you know, and they said we
need to talk to you, and theyshut the door and I thought I
did something.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't know what I did yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So we went in and they said we figured, since
you're the person that's goingto have to work with this
director, you needed to be in onour discussions about this.
And I went oh yes, I've gotsomebody in mind if you don't.
Yes, yes, I've got somebody inmind if you don't.
And so they went on and on andthey talked around the world and
I was thinking, I don't know, Idon't think they've got anybody
(18:48):
in mind.
So finally I just blurted out,I said do you mind telling me
who you're thinking of?
And they went well, you and Iwent wait a minute, but that's
how it came about.
And so immediately we startedgetting contract consultants.
So, these are people that arepart-time.
(19:10):
They have their own full-timejobs, but they graciously work
40 hours.
How does anybody do a part-timejob?
These people don't.
It's full-time.
They get paid for 40 hours.
How does anybody do a part-timejob?
These?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
people don't.
It's full-time.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
They get paid for 40 hours a month.
Dear dear Lowell Walker, who ismy brother.
Yes, my brother Pastors MountSinai Baptist Church in Tupelo
and he is our African-Americanconsultant and truly he is my
brother.
My brother, my only brotherpassed away last year and I just
(19:47):
told Lowell.
I said, lowell, I don't knowhow I'm going to live without my
brother.
He was so dear to me andLowell's my brother.
Now we call and we talk forhours on the phone.
He and his wife, jacqueline,are dear.
We have Rocky Sibb, who is astory in himself of how the Lord
(20:11):
brought him to Mississippi andsaved his soul and taught him
Spanish, because his nativetongue he's Mayan and Spanish
wasn't even his first language.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And he is our Hispanic consultant.
Ray Duplessis is um.
Dad was not Choctaw, his mom'sChoctaw.
So he says he doesn't know whathe is.
He says when I'm with Choctaws,I'm white.
When I'm with white people, I'mChoctaw, so I don't know.
But he pastors a church on thecoast but is an incredible,
(20:50):
incredible help in doing afantastic job with our Choctaw
ministry.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Vicki Stewart is a child, she's what they call a
CODA, a child of an adult, of adeaf adult, and so her first
language is ASL American.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Sign Language yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And so I have learned tremendously through Vicki the
incredible need that we have inMississippi.
There are zero, zero deafchurches in Mississippi.
We do not have a way tominister with deaf people.
And then we also I'm workingbetter on this special needs
(21:37):
adults.
Our discipleship departmenttakes care of special needs
children and we're working withspecial needs adults.
Our discipleship departmenttakes care of special needs
children and we're working withspecial needs adults, so it
encompasses a wide variety thatis fun to watch work together.
Sometimes our African-Americanchurches sponsor.
(21:59):
They sponsored a basketballcamp for the Choctaws.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That is fantastic.
That is fantastic.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour greatest.
You've been in a role now sincesince 22.
You've watched and observedthese ministries interact.
You've seen, you know peaks.
You've seen peaks, you've seenvalleys.
What do you believe, as itrelates to today for the church?
(22:26):
What do you believe to be someof the greatest challenges as it
relates to crossing over thesecultural, ethnic lines and
building, you know, deepfellowship, deep gospel
relationships?
What do you see as the greatchallenges right now in your
work?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Honesty, not being afraid to just ask that question
or learn from that answer.
Ask that question or learn fromthat answer.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I stepped in it this past weekend.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I had a wonderful.
We had our African-Americanleadership.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes, yes, yes, I was grateful to be a guest there.
I was grateful to be a guestthere.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes, yes, but in some conversations I just and dear,
dear people, we've known eachother.
I mean, I'm just learning moreand more and more about culture
and I think I offended someoneand went back and apologized
because I did not understandculture, because I did not
(23:42):
understand culture, and I lovethe going back and apologize,
the making up, because, it justtakes the relationship that much
deeper.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's been a challenge .
It's been a challenge forseveral.
Understanding the deaf cultureis another whole culture in
itself, the go-between ofcultures to our white culture
(24:27):
and getting our white culture tounderstand just different
things, just what you weretalking about earlier with your
women having meetings with theelders.
You need somebody that can say,okay, this is what's happening
here.
Let's think about what doesthat look like over here?
Yeah, yeah, and is that a slapin the face or is that a help?
Are we working together?
You know, is maybe what we needto do is tweak it a little bit.
(24:50):
So those have been challenging,but so deep in learning, it's
been incredible.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, yeah, I say I say often, paula, matter of fact
, I was teaching, doing somecoaching in Meridian this week
and we were having conversationsaround this.
But there's a set of groundrules that we have at Mission
Mississippi and at the churchthat I serve, at City Light, as
it relates to how to engage indeep and healthy dialogue across
(25:21):
difference and across divides,and we say all the time that one
of those ground rules is thatvulnerable conversations can be,
and must be, unpolished, andwhat we mean by that is that, if
you can, only you know that'sthe trade-off you want.
You either want vulnerability,and vulnerability is what leads
(25:44):
to community, it leads to depth,it leads to intimacy or you
want polish, and when we saypolish, we mean you want us to.
Basically, you want to makesure that I say all the right
things and that I never fumbleover my words.
And if, if, if, you create aspace where polish is the value,
then you'll never havevulnerability, and if you never
(26:07):
have vulnerability, you'll neverhave death.
But if you create a space wherevulnerability is the value over
polish, then there's going to beplenty of occasions for us to
stick our foot in our mouths andsay something that was
offensive to the other culture,unbeknownst to us.
But if we create the kind ofvulnerability where people allow
(26:30):
that lack of polish and theyallow the words to fumble out
sometimes of our mouths, andthey say the words to fumble out
sometimes of our mouths andthey say that's okay, that's
okay Brian, or that's okay Paula, we, we, you know that that was
offensive, make no mistakeabout it, and culturally that's
offensive, um, but I know whyyou're here and I know that you
(26:54):
desire to build something deepwith me and because of that I'm
okay with the offense.
We can work through it, we canaddress it, we can learn from it
and grow from it, and then wecan keep moving with the
expectation that there'sprobably going to be another one
of those along the way, becauseyou're learning and I'm
(27:18):
learning, we're crossing intothese unknown spaces and you're
learning and I'm learning, andbecause of that there's going to
be more of those that comealong the way.
But we're committed to oneanother, we're committed to this
journey and so we allow spacefor, you know, abuse in our
words, so just harshness andmeanness and smugness and
ugliness.
But it is space forunintentional but just hey, we
(27:48):
offended, we didn't mean to, butwe did, and so creating space
for that is incredibly important.
Is that a challenge just acrossany of those cultures that you
engage with on a regular basis?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yes, yes, I don't know if I have grown so
accustomed to being the onlywhite person in a group that I
don't see it anymore.
I mean, I truly I realized thatone point this past weekend.
I was the only white person inthe group, but I did not realize
(28:25):
it until I think the next day.
But I did not realize it untilI think the next day because I
just I just don't see it,because I'm so.
Folks are so dear, you know,they're just so dear and I feel
people make me feel socomfortable.
I don't feel the difference.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, discomfort becomes comfort over time, right
?
Yes, it's just.
Over time it's uncomfortable tobe in these unfamiliar spaces,
but those unfamiliar spacesbecome familiar.
Yes, so eventually it's justlike these are the people that I
hang around with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Exactly, exactly, that's true.
That's true.
Well, our ministry assistanthere in the office is Hispanic
and of course, we talk inSpanish all the time and I learn
a lot from her.
It's a different culturebecause she's from Mexico.
I served in South America, inUruguay, and you know two
(29:26):
totally different cultures and alot of Spanish is different.
So I always have to ask whatdoes that mean?
Yes, but I have, you know, wepolish on each other, as you say
, we polish going.
I'm not sure what that means,or I wouldn't say it that way if
I were you.
Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Ok, yes, say it that way if I were you oh that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Okay, so it helps to have that tight relationship
that will correct you, that willjust say we shouldn't do that,
or this is why that helps to saythis is why, absolutely,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You know even what you just said there.
I would love to peel that layerback just a little bit, because
you said something incrediblyinteresting as you talked about
the difference in culture.
You know, just like you haveAfrican-Americans, but you got
Mississippi African-Americans,which are not the same as
Michigan African-Americans.
Take it from somebody who haskinfolk in Saginaw, michigan and
(30:37):
Detroit.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Michigan.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And there's a different culture, a different,
a different way of interactionand engagement when you, when
you travel up north or thetravel east coast, and so I
would love for you to talk alittle bit about just that
dynamic in and of itself, evenin the Asian community.
Of course, I have some friendsthat are in Asian ministry in
(31:00):
Mississippi and they talk aboutoftentimes how there's this very
sneaky deception that entersinto missionary work where we
say, hey, we're going to plantan Asian church, quote unquote.
And then you think, hey, we'rejust going to plant an Asian
church, and then Asian peopleare going to show up.
It's like, no, no, no, theseare different cultures,
(31:22):
different dialects, there'sdifferent histories here, and so
you can't just roll out the redcarpet and say, hey, whoever is
Asian is going to be welcomehere.
You have to do really, really,really deep work, the same kind
of work that you have to doacross any ministry, any church,
to ensure all people arewelcome.
So we got cross-culturalministry, but then we got all
(31:43):
these subgroups within thesecultures.
Talk to me about the complexityof that as you work through
that as the director.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Sure, well, if you think about it, you're so right.
We come at it from the mindsetof the Revelation 5-7 in heaven.
Yes, from every nation, fromevery culture, from every tribe
and we're all worshiping Jesustogether.
(32:10):
What does that look like?
Give us this day our dailybread, that your will be done on
earth as it is in heaven.
What would that look like onearth, and how can my church do
that?
You know well, we have a I havea wonderful church that does
have a mixture ofAfrican-American and
(32:31):
internationals and you know it'sstill majority white but
there's such a mixture and youknow we kind of get a glimpse of
that here, just a glimpse, butthen we get a glimpse of the
other too, when I get a phonecall from one of our Hispanic
churches that they're saying, OK, we've got, you know, three
(32:56):
deacons and we're all from threedifferent countries and we all
think differently about churchpolity.
And so how do we, how do wehandle this idea?
Or Hispanic church?
You know there are 20 countries, South American countries, that
speak English.
I speak Spanish, Excuse me.
And if seven of those are inone church and most of our
(33:21):
Hispanic churches do have thatmany and more cultures in them,
Potluck, Think about potluckDang.
You're going to bring food fromyou know Right?
Do you like that kind of food?
No, we never eat spicy.
You don't eat spicy.
What's wrong with you, you know?
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
One really incredible , wonderful thing I learned
through our Chinese ministry.
I was visiting a Chinese churchin Starkville and I would say,
well, I'm sure everybody inthere spoke English, I'm sure
they had the service in Mandarin, but I had an interpreter in
(34:13):
Mandarin.
But I had an interpreter and Iwas thinking, just, you know,
observing, thinking, I wonder isit time that we just try to?
Instead of starting a languagechurch, maybe we should just try
to start coming together more?
So I'm really pondering that Iwas listening to the sermon but
I was still pondering Squirrel,and so I was just about to go.
(34:38):
Well, lord, maybe we need toreally concentrate on that more.
And so they were having abaptism and one lady was giving
her testimony.
So they were having a baptismand one lady was giving her
testimony and she came as ateacher at state and she said
her whole focus was on I can'twait to get into the culture.
(34:59):
I want to experience everything, the culture of the South.
You know she wanted toexperience everything.
Well, she had fellow teacherswho were Christians, who invited
her to everything, and she saidshe was especially interested
in the church services.
She'd heard so much about theChristian cultural of the South.
(35:21):
She got involved in one of thechurches.
She said, you know, she beganto hear about Jesus and sounded
like a great man.
She'd never even heard of Jesusbefore, never heard the name
Jesus before, and she was reallyinto it and was on the.
Should I do I need to surrenderto this?
(35:43):
Is this you know?
She was right there and someoneat work said well, I don't know
why you don't just go to theChinese church.
And she immediately jumped backat him.
She said I didn't come here togo to Chinese, to go to Mandarin
.
I came to learn the culture.
I came to do this.
But then she felt guilty.
(36:04):
And she said no, I should go andsupport you know who?
This is the first time she went, she heard the gospel in her
language and she said yes toJesus.
And that to me.
Her testimony to me was yes, wedo need language churches.
Yes, the deaf need ASL as theirfirst language churches yes,
(36:33):
the deaf need ASL as their firstlanguage, not an interpretation
.
They need ASL, yes, so that'spart of the mixture of that.
But I agree with you totally.
Even in our African-Americanchurches, we have a lot of our
pastors when we come together,for we have a lot of our pastors
when we come together forchurch leadership conferences
like this.
Even some of the dilemmas thatwe have you talk to somebody
(36:59):
from pastoring a church in theMississippi Delta with somebody
from the coast.
Yes, and it's different.
Yes, we have to thinkdifferently and plan differently
on those things, which, to me,is just another one of those.
You think about the awesomenessof God and, of course, use the
(37:23):
stars as an illustration with atelescope and you can see more
stars, more galaxies, more.
Yes, but you just live inMississippi and just start
knowing cultures in Mississippiand you see stars and you see,
God above everything oh
Speaker 1 (37:42):
my gosh, he is above everything.
Oh my gosh, it is so muchcomplexity and culture in the
state alone, and God himself isthe connector.
(38:05):
The wider complexity I get achance to glimpse and I realized
that you know, you startdriving, you know, a few miles
down the road from Jackson,mississippi, and you cross over
into Hattiesburg, and it's adifferent culture.
It is not the same as theJackson culture that you may
have been exposed to, or theVicksburg culture, and you drive
(38:27):
a few miles further or farther,into the great city of Biloxi,
and it is not the same asHattiesburg and Jackson, et
cetera, et cetera.
And so, yeah, god is incrediblycomplex in that way.
Nettie man, jump in, brother,yeah, hey.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Nettie.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, it's like a foreigner coming into this
conversation, but you know, Ilistened to you from four years
old up and as you were talkingabout your experience coming to
Christ and all of that, what Iwas thinking the whole time you
were talking about the Day ofPentecost is that you didn't
realize that other people didn'thave the opportunities you had
(39:08):
and you didn't understand whythey didn't know what you knew.
You know, the day of Pentecostsome things happened, that
different cultures from all overthe world were there, but they
understood each other.
And one of the things that havebecome clear during your
conversation is that we aremissing, but we don't know what
(39:30):
we're missing until we know whatit looks like, what it sounds
like and how it, in part, takeinto our everyday lives.
In other words, we've had thisshepherded stuff before Christ
Can I say it that way?
And because we had that beforeChrist, we brought that in.
And so when you start readingthe book of Acts, throughout the
(39:54):
book of Acts, you'll find thata lot of our culture, our
customs and our class and colorand all of that other stuff that
was going on with us in oursecular lives is that we brought
that into the mix into ourChristian life.
So now we're having to workhard to bring back that which
(40:14):
should have been there to beginwith, because you don't sign
them on and the preacher willtell you you know the people
that don't show up, you know themissing part of us.
You know when you're not therethere's an empty space when
you're not there, but we don'teven know that the empty space
is there until somebody fillsthe space and then we realize
how much we have missed becausewe got this separatist,
(40:39):
individualistic kind of attitudetowards things and so difficult
conversations.
Honesty, as you said earlier,from my perspective, has been my
greatest challenge.
So you've highlighted most ofthose things.
(41:03):
Those are the comments orquestions I would have had for
you that you answeredics,african-americans, the guy that
can't figure out whether he'swhite or Indian Chow Chow, I
mean and that we ought to beinterchangeably like that, that
we don't have to go there toappreciate the full body of
(41:24):
Christ and how rich the body isin terms of diversity, in terms
of ethnicity, and that we're allone race, and so you know.
I love the part of your storythat you went from four years
old to 12 years old to thecountries and came back and
(41:44):
you're doing now in America whatyou were doing when you were
out of the country and how therichness of bringing us together
.
We don't know what we miss untilwe all get in a room.
And the same thing with family.
I have these opportunities tobe with family, most of the time
(42:06):
doing sad occasions like afuneral.
Then we'll say, oh, let's notwait till the next person dies
to get together, right, isn'tthat the truth?
That's what we said at the lastfuneral and probably what we're
going to say at the nextfuneral.
And then occasionally we getthe opportunity to get together
for weddings.
(42:26):
But outside of those things,unless you have an
intentionality of a tradition ofbringing the family together,
whether it be your naturalfamily or the spiritual family
or the blood family, however youwant to mix that.
So we coin this termintentionality.
It must be intentional.
God bless you and I reallyappreciate your story and what
(42:48):
you're doing in that.
So God bless you and I reallyappreciate your story and what
you're doing in that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So God bless.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
That's what I had to say, Mr Crawford.
I'm so excited to be yourincredible friend every week.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Excited to have you as an incredible friend.
It's always have you jump inwith some with some good wisdom
to leave us with.
Let me close out by asking youthis, Paula there's people,
obviously, that are listening tothis broadcast or podcast.
Rather Many of them areincredibly interested in the
work of reconciliation.
(43:22):
But, from your vantage point,if you could give some counsel
to people as it relates to howto engage in the work and the
experiences that you engage in,how to cross aisles and spaces
and places that maybe they'renot familiar with, what kind of
counsel would you give ourlistening audience?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
The first thing, I think, is that it's just smile.
Smile is international.
We see people every to starttaking notice.
You know, for example, I boughta red car one time and I was so
excited and then, all of asudden, everybody, everybody
(44:07):
else, had red cards too.
You know.
So start looking.
You know, as Brother Nettiesaid, be intentional about
looking and noticing, because wejust pass by people every day
that you know, unless we'relooking, they're just they're
(44:27):
not there.
As we're looking, they're justthey're not there.
But smiling at somebody, and bethe first to you know if
they're not smiling or theydon't smile back.
You know, pray for them.
Just God opens doors all thetime.
You know.
Sometimes you go, okay, let'shave a breather, you know
(44:49):
whatever.
But I think the Lordintentionally opens doors as
well.
So my counsel would be to smile, make eye contact and be the
first to just acknowledge we'reboth human.
Let me just treat you as ahuman.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Paula, that's incredible counsel, counsel that
I will incorporate into my ownlife, and so thank you for
sharing it and thank you forbeing, on this episode of Living
, reconciled with us.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
We have gleaned oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Oh my goodness, we have gleaned so much and learned
so much from you, and sohopefully, we will be able to
have you as a guest again.
So thank you so much again.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Well, you know how much I appreciate y'all and
candy.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, Don't forget my beautiful
bride, who is most of thereason why I am what I am, next
to God's grace.
So yeah, for those of you allwho are listening, again, thank
you for joining us.
Paula Smith can be found on theMississippi Baptist page under
their Multicultural Ministries.
(45:56):
Again, she is the Director ofMulticultural Ministries and
Paula can be reached if you haveany questions or would like to
reach out to her for anyministry needs.
She can be found in that way.
Again, many thanks to Ms PaulaSmith.
And, on behalf of NettieWinters, this is Brian Crawford
signing off saying God bless.
Thanks for joining, livingReconciled.
(46:17):
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured that
Jesus has already secured,please visit us online at
missionmississippiorg or call usat 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford,with my co-host and incredible
(00:35):
friend, nettie Winters.
Sir, how are you doing today?
I'm wonderful, and you, I amdoing fantastic.
It's always good to have you onthe podcast.
I'm always good to have somegood conversations with good
friends, which we have one today, paula Smith, but we'll talk to
Paula in just a second.
We do want to give a quickshout out to our sponsors, folks
(00:55):
like Nissan, st Dominic'sHospital, atmos Energy Regions
Foundation, mississippi College,anderson United, grace Temple
Church, mississippi StateUniversity, real Christian
Foundation, brown MissionaryBaptist Christian Life Church,
ms Doris Powell, robert Ward andWinters.
Thank you all so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
.
And, by the way, if you wouldlike to join this illustrious
(01:19):
list of sponsors, you can do soby visiting Mission Mississippi,
clicking on the donate button.
That is againmissionmississippiorg clicking
on the donate button and you canjoin this group of sponsors in
helping us host this podcast,living Reconciled which, by the
way, is all about reconciliation, and that's why I can be more
(01:41):
excited to talk to our guestsfor today.
Ms Paula Smith.
Ms Paula Smith is an incredibleleader.
With the Mississippi Baptist,she started the job as the
Director of MulticulturalMinistries in September of 2022.
However, ms Smith has been inthe missionary field.
(02:03):
She spent 10 years with IMB.
She also spent some time withthe Women's Missionary Union for
15 years, but she is now withthe Multicultural Ministries and
we will allow her to talk toyou about that and what it all
entails.
But nonetheless, we would loveto introduce to you Ms Paula
Smith.
Paula, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
today I'm doing great .
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Absolutely.
We're incredibly grateful forthe opportunity.
Your story is one that we wouldlove for our Living Reconciled
listeners to hear, and so, withthat said, I would love for you
to just get started by tellingus a little bit about it.
How did you tell us a littlebit about your story as it
relates to how you came to faithand, in particular, how your
faith crossed over into thespace of reconciliation and
(02:48):
generate the passion that youhave currently?
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Well, well, it started early.
I was four.
Our church little bitty, littlebitty town church I think we
had maybe 100.
And Danny pastored that churchand we had mission organizations
when and Danny pastored thatchurch and we had mission
organizations when I was alittle girl and I had the best
(03:11):
teacher.
Her name was Alva, but she hadall the little kids call her
Alvu and so we were special toher.
But we were also specialbecause she let us take our
shoes off when we got there andshe had this big old map and
she'd put down on the floor andplay the music and when the
music stopped, where our big toeon our right foot was was the
(03:33):
country we studied about and ifwe happened to be in the water,
we just swam to the nearestcountry.
But that's where I learned earlyand I distinctly remember this
as a kid, thinking through this,I learned from Alvu that Jesus
loves me.
I knew that because Alvu lovedme and she told me and I trusted
(03:58):
her.
I learned that Jesus loved allthe little children all over the
world, that Jesus loved all thelittle children all over the
world.
I remember being shocked when Irealized not all the little
children all over the world knowthat and I thought what's the
matter?
Don't they have an alvoo totell them that?
But the fourth thing that Ilearned and it was real to me at
(04:20):
four years old I can tell them,I can go tell them, and so
that's kind of how I got started.
My parents were a majorinfluence on me and my whole
family and just, we hadmissionaries in our home, we had
invited guests.
(04:40):
I mean, we lived in a littletown, there were no hotels, so
everybody stayed with us, whichwas an absolute delight to me,
Right right.
So we had lots of dear friendsthat would come and stay and
talk about their ministries inthe area in Mississippi but also
across the world.
(05:00):
When I was 10, I accepted Jesusas my Savior.
I realized that I'm the sinner,I'm the one that needs His
saving power.
When I was 12, I felt thedistinct, very distinct call
into international missions.
(05:21):
So of course we wrote theInternational Mission.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Board when you were 12 years old.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, Amazing.
You know Chip Henderson, overat Pine Lake.
His dad pastored a motherchurch close to us, right there
in another town, really close,and we all did our New Year's
Eve party together the youth ofthe church, and we were praying
(05:49):
in the new year, the year I was12.
And Gene Henderson was talkingto us about surrendering
everything and I thought Ithought I did that.
I thought I did that and I wenthome from there thinking I
wonder what he meant by that.
And through the night God'sSpirit just worked with me and I
(06:11):
remember my niece, who is myage.
I have nieces and nephews olderthan I am, but she and I are
the same age.
We were all together at that.
And I remember just sitting upin the bed, just exhausted and
going all right, I'll do it, youknow, just surrender, surrender
everything.
And my niece sat up and lookedat me and she said what is your
(06:34):
problem?
And I said I just told God thatI would be a missionary.
And she clapped and she saidwe've been praying for you.
And I thought how did I not knowthat?
So it was a very real, veryreal calling to me and I
insisted on writing theInternational Mission Board and
(06:56):
finding out what I was supposedto do.
And, of course, the first thingthey said probably should have
a few more birthdays and, youknow, let that happen, Right?
No, but I stayed in contactwith them all the way through
and it's just been a wonderfuljourney of all the different
(07:18):
countries I've gotten to be in.
And then, who would havedreamed that?
I never dreamed I'd get to comeback to Mississippi and work so
long here at home.
It's amazing, it's been fun, itis fun.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, it's amazing.
What do you consider, paula,just in that journey alone, the
experience on the mission fieldand working with the Women's
Missions Ministry what do youconsider to be the most, I guess
, rewarding part of that portionof your journey?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The relationships.
I think Even last night.
My dearest friend in the worldlives in Uruguay and we talk
often and I think all therelationships we still continue
(08:18):
in every country that I've beenin.
I still have people that wecommunicate often.
I still have people that wecommunicate often.
I learned so much on themission field, about
(08:39):
reconciliation, from being theminority you know in that
situation Pastor's wife.
I remember being so excited when, knowing God, came out Henry
Blackaby's, and, oh my goodness,we ordered everything in
Spanish.
We were so excited and Iremember running to my
preacher's wife and telling herman, this is you know everything
(09:01):
.
And she went.
Let me guess it's the greatestthing since sliced bread.
Oh goody, another, anotherthing you are going to bring to
us that will make us better andall this.
And and I went.
But it is, it's so wonderful,it's so good.
And I learned from her.
She, I loved her for this.
(09:21):
She taught me.
You know we're partners.
Nobody is.
You know we're teaching eachother, we are teaching each
other and I will forever be inher debt for that.
And I think that's where Ibegan to make the connection the
(09:41):
ground I've always heard thatphrase, the ground's level at
the cross, but I began tounderstand it then, I've been in
some situations where, becauseI'm American and even because
I'm white, I was spit on.
I was you know, I just didn't.
I've been in so many differentcountries but I think it's the
(10:04):
Lord's.
I don't know, this doesn'tsound humble, but the Lord
humbled me.
I've had to bloody my nose alot and just realizing people
are people, are people.
But I really, really appreciatemy pastor's wife for that.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
My God, I'm just thinking about what you just
said and it's humbling to evenhear it and I'm grateful to the
Lord that you're sharing it.
But just this idea that we'reteaching one another on this
journey.
It's so easy to acquireknowledge or, like you mentioned
(10:51):
, to kind of acquire that nextbook, that next piece of that
next bit of insight and to losesight of the reality that you
can still look across the aisleand find a person that maybe
didn't read all the same reality, that you can still look across
the aisle and find a personthat maybe didn't read all the
same books that you read, maybedidn't read any of them, but
still has an incredible amountto teach you if you want to
(11:14):
listen, yeah, yeah, if you'rewilling to listen and it's one
book I read recently talks aboutthe reality that everybody's
interesting if you're curiousenough just got to have your
ears open, your mouth closed andwilling to ask the right
questions.
So that's incredible.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthis journey into multicultural
(11:54):
ministries.
Just kind of hear not only howyou ended up in this space but
also some of the experiencesthat you've captured from this
space that you feel have beenjust rewarding or challenging or
stressful, or, you know, any ofthe above.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yes, it's really interesting how I got here.
It's really interesting how Igot here.
I had like said I had worked,for I came home from Uruguay
because I had a a brain aneurysmthing that the Lord just took
care of, but I needed to comehome.
I stayed here, helped take careof my mother and everything.
(12:37):
But the job opened up withWomen's Missionary Union here at
MBCB and absolutely it's rightup my alley.
It's what I do, what I love.
So again, I began to get alittle sick after about 15 years
and I just took earlyretirement and once I got well
(13:00):
but the Lord used that interimtime in there I couldn't do much
.
It was about four years and ofcourse COVID came in the middle
of all of that.
But I still just, it didn'tmatter if I had the job or not,
I wanted to do what God calledme to do, you know.
(13:23):
So we teach English as a secondlanguage.
You know, in many of thechurches in the metro area I was
on the board that, the taskforce that put together the
conferences and so forth and soon, and so part of that time I
just had to have the people.
So Friday nights became y'allcome nights, bring whatever food
(13:48):
you got and just come.
And we started inviting.
It started off with Christiansjust coming together to pray.
Then we said why don't we justinvite our friends that we meet
in ESL or that we meet throughintercultural fellowship?
Let's just invite our friends,you know.
So we started gettingChristians and non-Christians
(14:09):
and from.
I should have kept count of howmany different countries of
that I can go through and thinkover 20, I'm sure I can go
through and think over 20, I'msure African-American, ethiopia,
you know, and there's SouthAmerican countries, asian
countries, just everybody.
And so on Friday nightseverybody would come to the
(14:32):
house and we got to where wespecifically would invite
different ones, probably nevermore than 20, 25 there at a time
.
But when we invited them wesaid we're going to eat, yay,
and we're going to pray.
And so nobody upon nobodyrejected us praying.
(14:54):
But I'll never, never, everforget one young man that I
truly believed was a Christian.
He was Korean, I knew his wifewas a Christian, but when we
prayed we thought we were allChristians there After we prayed
, and he didn't participate inthat.
(15:17):
But after we prayed he said Idon't know what y'all have, but
I don't have it and I want it.
And the man from the Republicof Congo led him to Christ and
you know, just to watch how theLord just brings.
There's a quote in our Englishas a second language training.
(15:39):
It says God transcends culturesand he certainly does.
Wow, wow.
But the reason this job openedup is because COVID hit and my
income went away, because thepeople that I was teaching
English to their income wentaway, so I needed a job.
(15:59):
Their income went away, so Ineeded a job.
So I taught for a little whileat Bellhaven and at MC, just
English stuff.
And then I called MBCB and Isaid y'all got a job, you need
the yard mode.
Is there something I can do?
What can I do?
(16:20):
Plug me in and theirgraciousness.
I worked at Camp Garroway for awhile and came back and was a
ministry assistant here for awhile in different departments.
And so Dr Parker said we wantto start a multicultural
ministries department and I saidman, yes, I think that's
(16:43):
excellent.
And he said we don't have thedirector yet, but would you like
to be the ministry assistant?
I said I am so there, I can'twait.
So, they had me in here beforethere was a director, was a
(17:07):
director, and so in my mind Iknew that this overall ministry
would entail.
They were telling me we know wewant in here our black churches
, our African-American churches,of course, asian and deaf and
special needs adults and ourChoctaw Indians.
And so I went.
It doesn't get any better,that's just terrific.
(17:30):
So they told me.
They said well, you know, wethink we have somebody that was
going to be the director andwe're talking, we'll see.
That was going to be thedirector and we're talking,
we'll see.
So do you mind, paula, if youjust send out a letter to
so-and-so, just kind of get us adatabase going, or whatever
like that.
So I just started doing stuffwith the connections that I
(17:56):
already had through the missions, organizations and all those
kinds of things and I don't know.
I think I worked something likehad to have been four months,
five months, something like that, without a director.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And I kept, you know, hoping, oh, I can't wait till
that director gets here andthink of what we can do.
Yay, and one day here comes twoguys in you know, and they said
we need to talk to you, andthey shut the door.
And I day here comes two guysin, you know, and they said we
need to talk to you, and theyshut the door and I thought I
did something.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't know what I did yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So we went in and they said we figured, since
you're the person that's goingto have to work with this
director, you needed to be in onour discussions about this.
And I went oh yes, I've gotsomebody in mind if you don't.
Yes, yes, I've got somebody inmind if you don't.
And so they went on and on andthey talked around the world and
I was thinking, I don't know, Idon't think they've got anybody
(18:48):
in mind.
So finally I just blurted out,I said do you mind telling me
who you're thinking of?
And they went well, you and Iwent wait a minute, but that's
how it came about.
And so immediately we startedgetting contract consultants.
So, these are people that arepart-time.
(19:10):
They have their own full-timejobs, but they graciously work
40 hours.
How does anybody do a part-timejob?
These people don't.
It's full-time.
They get paid for 40 hours.
How does anybody do a part-timejob?
These?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
people don't.
It's full-time.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
They get paid for 40 hours a month.
Dear dear Lowell Walker, who ismy brother.
Yes, my brother Pastors MountSinai Baptist Church in Tupelo
and he is our African-Americanconsultant and truly he is my
brother.
My brother, my only brotherpassed away last year and I just
(19:47):
told Lowell.
I said, lowell, I don't knowhow I'm going to live without my
brother.
He was so dear to me andLowell's my brother.
Now we call and we talk forhours on the phone.
He and his wife, jacqueline,are dear.
We have Rocky Sibb, who is astory in himself of how the Lord
(20:11):
brought him to Mississippi andsaved his soul and taught him
Spanish, because his nativetongue he's Mayan and Spanish
wasn't even his first language.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Wow, wow.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
And he is our Hispanic consultant.
Ray Duplessis is um.
Dad was not Choctaw, his mom'sChoctaw.
So he says he doesn't know whathe is.
He says when I'm with Choctaws,I'm white.
When I'm with white people, I'mChoctaw, so I don't know.
But he pastors a church on thecoast but is an incredible,
(20:50):
incredible help in doing afantastic job with our Choctaw
ministry.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Vicki Stewart is a child, she's what they call a
CODA, a child of an adult, of adeaf adult, and so her first
language is ASL American.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Sign Language yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And so I have learned tremendously through Vicki the
incredible need that we have inMississippi.
There are zero, zero deafchurches in Mississippi.
We do not have a way tominister with deaf people.
And then we also I'm workingbetter on this special needs
(21:37):
adults.
Our discipleship departmenttakes care of special needs
children and we're working withspecial needs adults.
Our discipleship departmenttakes care of special needs
children and we're working withspecial needs adults, so it
encompasses a wide variety thatis fun to watch work together.
Sometimes our African-Americanchurches sponsor.
(21:59):
They sponsored a basketballcamp for the Choctaws.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That is fantastic.
That is fantastic.
So tell me a little bit aboutyour greatest.
You've been in a role now sincesince 22.
You've watched and observedthese ministries interact.
You've seen, you know peaks.
You've seen peaks, you've seenvalleys.
What do you believe, as itrelates to today for the church?
(22:26):
What do you believe to be someof the greatest challenges as it
relates to crossing over thesecultural, ethnic lines and
building, you know, deepfellowship, deep gospel
relationships?
What do you see as the greatchallenges right now in your
work?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Honesty, not being afraid to just ask that question
or learn from that answer.
Ask that question or learn fromthat answer.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I stepped in it this past weekend.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I had a wonderful.
We had our African-Americanleadership.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes, yes, yes, I was grateful to be a guest there.
I was grateful to be a guestthere.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes, yes, but in some conversations I just and dear,
dear people, we've known eachother.
I mean, I'm just learning moreand more and more about culture
and I think I offended someoneand went back and apologized
because I did not understandculture, because I did not
(23:42):
understand culture, and I lovethe going back and apologize,
the making up, because, it justtakes the relationship that much
deeper.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
It's been a challenge .
It's been a challenge forseveral.
Understanding the deaf cultureis another whole culture in
itself, the go-between ofcultures to our white culture
(24:27):
and getting our white culture tounderstand just different
things, just what you weretalking about earlier with your
women having meetings with theelders.
You need somebody that can say,okay, this is what's happening
here.
Let's think about what doesthat look like over here?
Yeah, yeah, and is that a slapin the face or is that a help?
Are we working together?
You know, is maybe what we needto do is tweak it a little bit.
(24:50):
So those have been challenging,but so deep in learning, it's
been incredible.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah, yeah, I say I say often, paula, matter of fact
, I was teaching, doing somecoaching in Meridian this week
and we were having conversationsaround this.
But there's a set of groundrules that we have at Mission
Mississippi and at the churchthat I serve, at City Light, as
it relates to how to engage indeep and healthy dialogue across
(25:21):
difference and across divides,and we say all the time that one
of those ground rules is thatvulnerable conversations can be,
and must be, unpolished, andwhat we mean by that is that, if
you can, only you know that'sthe trade-off you want.
You either want vulnerability,and vulnerability is what leads
(25:44):
to community, it leads to depth,it leads to intimacy or you
want polish, and when we saypolish, we mean you want us to.
Basically, you want to makesure that I say all the right
things and that I never fumbleover my words.
And if, if, if, you create aspace where polish is the value,
then you'll never havevulnerability, and if you never
(26:07):
have vulnerability, you'll neverhave death.
But if you create a space wherevulnerability is the value over
polish, then there's going to beplenty of occasions for us to
stick our foot in our mouths andsay something that was
offensive to the other culture,unbeknownst to us.
But if we create the kind ofvulnerability where people allow
(26:30):
that lack of polish and theyallow the words to fumble out
sometimes of our mouths, andthey say the words to fumble out
sometimes of our mouths andthey say that's okay, that's
okay Brian, or that's okay Paula, we, we, you know that that was
offensive, make no mistakeabout it, and culturally that's
offensive, um, but I know whyyou're here and I know that you
(26:54):
desire to build something deepwith me and because of that I'm
okay with the offense.
We can work through it, we canaddress it, we can learn from it
and grow from it, and then wecan keep moving with the
expectation that there'sprobably going to be another one
of those along the way, becauseyou're learning and I'm
(27:18):
learning, we're crossing intothese unknown spaces and you're
learning and I'm learning, andbecause of that there's going to
be more of those that comealong the way.
But we're committed to oneanother, we're committed to this
journey and so we allow spacefor, you know, abuse in our
words, so just harshness andmeanness and smugness and
ugliness.
But it is space forunintentional but just hey, we
(27:48):
offended, we didn't mean to, butwe did, and so creating space
for that is incredibly important.
Is that a challenge just acrossany of those cultures that you
engage with on a regular basis?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yes, yes, I don't know if I have grown so
accustomed to being the onlywhite person in a group that I
don't see it anymore.
I mean, I truly I realized thatone point this past weekend.
I was the only white person inthe group, but I did not realize
(28:25):
it until I think the next day.
But I did not realize it untilI think the next day because I
just I just don't see it,because I'm so.
Folks are so dear, you know,they're just so dear and I feel
people make me feel socomfortable.
I don't feel the difference.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, discomfort becomes comfort over time, right
?
Yes, it's just.
Over time it's uncomfortable tobe in these unfamiliar spaces,
but those unfamiliar spacesbecome familiar.
Yes, so eventually it's justlike these are the people that I
hang around with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Exactly, exactly, that's true.
That's true.
Well, our ministry assistanthere in the office is Hispanic
and of course, we talk inSpanish all the time and I learn
a lot from her.
It's a different culturebecause she's from Mexico.
I served in South America, inUruguay, and you know two
(29:26):
totally different cultures and alot of Spanish is different.
So I always have to ask whatdoes that mean?
Yes, but I have, you know, wepolish on each other, as you say
, we polish going.
I'm not sure what that means,or I wouldn't say it that way if
I were you.
Oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Ok, yes, say it that way if I were you oh that makes
sense.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Okay, so it helps to have that tight relationship
that will correct you, that willjust say we shouldn't do that,
or this is why that helps to saythis is why, absolutely,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You know even what you just said there.
I would love to peel that layerback just a little bit, because
you said something incrediblyinteresting as you talked about
the difference in culture.
You know, just like you haveAfrican-Americans, but you got
Mississippi African-Americans,which are not the same as
Michigan African-Americans.
Take it from somebody who haskinfolk in Saginaw, michigan and
(30:37):
Detroit.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Michigan.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And there's a different culture, a different,
a different way of interactionand engagement when you, when
you travel up north or thetravel east coast, and so I
would love for you to talk alittle bit about just that
dynamic in and of itself, evenin the Asian community.
Of course, I have some friendsthat are in Asian ministry in
(31:00):
Mississippi and they talk aboutoftentimes how there's this very
sneaky deception that entersinto missionary work where we
say, hey, we're going to plantan Asian church, quote unquote.
And then you think, hey, we'rejust going to plant an Asian
church, and then Asian peopleare going to show up.
It's like, no, no, no, theseare different cultures,
(31:22):
different dialects, there'sdifferent histories here, and so
you can't just roll out the redcarpet and say, hey, whoever is
Asian is going to be welcomehere.
You have to do really, really,really deep work, the same kind
of work that you have to doacross any ministry, any church,
to ensure all people arewelcome.
So we got cross-culturalministry, but then we got all
(31:43):
these subgroups within thesecultures.
Talk to me about the complexityof that as you work through
that as the director.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Sure, well, if you think about it, you're so right.
We come at it from the mindsetof the Revelation 5-7 in heaven.
Yes, from every nation, fromevery culture, from every tribe
and we're all worshiping Jesustogether.
(32:10):
What does that look like?
Give us this day our dailybread, that your will be done on
earth as it is in heaven.
What would that look like onearth, and how can my church do
that?
You know well, we have a I havea wonderful church that does
have a mixture ofAfrican-American and
(32:31):
internationals and you know it'sstill majority white but
there's such a mixture and youknow we kind of get a glimpse of
that here, just a glimpse, butthen we get a glimpse of the
other too, when I get a phonecall from one of our Hispanic
churches that they're saying, OK, we've got, you know, three
(32:56):
deacons and we're all from threedifferent countries and we all
think differently about churchpolity.
And so how do we, how do wehandle this idea?
Or Hispanic church?
You know there are 20 countries, South American countries, that
speak English.
I speak Spanish, Excuse me.
And if seven of those are inone church and most of our
(33:21):
Hispanic churches do have thatmany and more cultures in them,
Potluck, Think about potluckDang.
You're going to bring food fromyou know Right?
Do you like that kind of food?
No, we never eat spicy.
You don't eat spicy.
What's wrong with you, you know?
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
One really incredible , wonderful thing I learned
through our Chinese ministry.
I was visiting a Chinese churchin Starkville and I would say,
well, I'm sure everybody inthere spoke English, I'm sure
they had the service in Mandarin, but I had an interpreter in
(34:13):
Mandarin.
But I had an interpreter and Iwas thinking, just, you know,
observing, thinking, I wonder isit time that we just try to?
Instead of starting a languagechurch, maybe we should just try
to start coming together more?
So I'm really pondering that Iwas listening to the sermon but
I was still pondering Squirrel,and so I was just about to go.
(34:38):
Well, lord, maybe we need toreally concentrate on that more.
And so they were having abaptism and one lady was giving
her testimony.
So they were having a baptismand one lady was giving her
testimony and she came as ateacher at state and she said
her whole focus was on I can'twait to get into the culture.
(34:59):
I want to experience everything, the culture of the South.
You know she wanted toexperience everything.
Well, she had fellow teacherswho were Christians, who invited
her to everything, and she saidshe was especially interested
in the church services.
She'd heard so much about theChristian cultural of the South.
(35:21):
She got involved in one of thechurches.
She said, you know, she beganto hear about Jesus and sounded
like a great man.
She'd never even heard of Jesusbefore, never heard the name
Jesus before, and she was reallyinto it and was on the.
Should I do I need to surrenderto this?
(35:43):
Is this you know?
She was right there and someoneat work said well, I don't know
why you don't just go to theChinese church.
And she immediately jumped backat him.
She said I didn't come here togo to Chinese, to go to Mandarin
.
I came to learn the culture.
I came to do this.
But then she felt guilty.
(36:04):
And she said no, I should go andsupport you know who?
This is the first time she went, she heard the gospel in her
language and she said yes toJesus.
And that to me.
Her testimony to me was yes, wedo need language churches.
Yes, the deaf need ASL as theirfirst language churches yes,
(36:33):
the deaf need ASL as their firstlanguage, not an interpretation
.
They need ASL, yes, so that'spart of the mixture of that.
But I agree with you totally.
Even in our African-Americanchurches, we have a lot of our
pastors when we come together,for we have a lot of our pastors
when we come together forchurch leadership conferences
like this.
Even some of the dilemmas thatwe have you talk to somebody
(36:59):
from pastoring a church in theMississippi Delta with somebody
from the coast.
Yes, and it's different.
Yes, we have to thinkdifferently and plan differently
on those things, which, to me,is just another one of those.
You think about the awesomenessof God and, of course, use the
(37:23):
stars as an illustration with atelescope and you can see more
stars, more galaxies, more.
Yes, but you just live inMississippi and just start
knowing cultures in Mississippiand you see stars and you see,
God above everything oh
Speaker 1 (37:42):
my gosh, he is above everything.
Oh my gosh, it is so muchcomplexity and culture in the
state alone, and God himself isthe connector.
(38:05):
The wider complexity I get achance to glimpse and I realized
that you know, you startdriving, you know, a few miles
down the road from Jackson,mississippi, and you cross over
into Hattiesburg, and it's adifferent culture.
It is not the same as theJackson culture that you may
have been exposed to, or theVicksburg culture, and you drive
(38:27):
a few miles further or farther,into the great city of Biloxi,
and it is not the same asHattiesburg and Jackson, et
cetera, et cetera.
And so, yeah, god is incrediblycomplex in that way.
Nettie man, jump in, brother,yeah, hey.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Nettie.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Yeah, it's like a foreigner coming into this
conversation, but you know, Ilistened to you from four years
old up and as you were talkingabout your experience coming to
Christ and all of that, what Iwas thinking the whole time you
were talking about the Day ofPentecost is that you didn't
realize that other people didn'thave the opportunities you had
(39:08):
and you didn't understand whythey didn't know what you knew.
You know, the day of Pentecostsome things happened, that
different cultures from all overthe world were there, but they
understood each other.
And one of the things that havebecome clear during your
conversation is that we aremissing, but we don't know what
(39:30):
we're missing until we know whatit looks like, what it sounds
like and how it, in part, takeinto our everyday lives.
In other words, we've had thisshepherded stuff before Christ
Can I say it that way?
And because we had that beforeChrist, we brought that in.
And so when you start readingthe book of Acts, throughout the
(39:54):
book of Acts, you'll find thata lot of our culture, our
customs and our class and colorand all of that other stuff that
was going on with us in oursecular lives is that we brought
that into the mix into ourChristian life.
So now we're having to workhard to bring back that which
(40:14):
should have been there to beginwith, because you don't sign
them on and the preacher willtell you you know the people
that don't show up, you know themissing part of us.
You know when you're not therethere's an empty space when
you're not there, but we don'teven know that the empty space
is there until somebody fillsthe space and then we realize
how much we have missed becausewe got this separatist,
(40:39):
individualistic kind of attitudetowards things and so difficult
conversations.
Honesty, as you said earlier,from my perspective, has been my
greatest challenge.
So you've highlighted most ofthose things.
(41:03):
Those are the comments orquestions I would have had for
you that you answeredics,african-americans, the guy that
can't figure out whether he'swhite or Indian Chow Chow, I
mean and that we ought to beinterchangeably like that, that
we don't have to go there toappreciate the full body of
(41:24):
Christ and how rich the body isin terms of diversity, in terms
of ethnicity, and that we're allone race, and so you know.
I love the part of your storythat you went from four years
old to 12 years old to thecountries and came back and
(41:44):
you're doing now in America whatyou were doing when you were
out of the country and how therichness of bringing us together
.
We don't know what we miss untilwe all get in a room.
And the same thing with family.
I have these opportunities tobe with family, most of the time
(42:06):
doing sad occasions like afuneral.
Then we'll say, oh, let's notwait till the next person dies
to get together, right, isn'tthat the truth?
That's what we said at the lastfuneral and probably what we're
going to say at the nextfuneral.
And then occasionally we getthe opportunity to get together
for weddings.
(42:26):
But outside of those things,unless you have an
intentionality of a tradition ofbringing the family together,
whether it be your naturalfamily or the spiritual family
or the blood family, however youwant to mix that.
So we coin this termintentionality.
It must be intentional.
God bless you and I reallyappreciate your story and what
(42:48):
you're doing in that.
So God bless you and I reallyappreciate your story and what
you're doing in that.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So God bless.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
That's what I had to say, Mr Crawford.
I'm so excited to be yourincredible friend every week.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Excited to have you as an incredible friend.
It's always have you jump inwith some with some good wisdom
to leave us with.
Let me close out by asking youthis, Paula there's people,
obviously, that are listening tothis broadcast or podcast.
Rather Many of them areincredibly interested in the
work of reconciliation.
(43:22):
But, from your vantage point,if you could give some counsel
to people as it relates to howto engage in the work and the
experiences that you engage in,how to cross aisles and spaces
and places that maybe they'renot familiar with, what kind of
counsel would you give ourlistening audience?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
The first thing, I think, is that it's just smile.
Smile is international.
We see people every to starttaking notice.
You know, for example, I boughta red car one time and I was so
excited and then, all of asudden, everybody, everybody
(44:07):
else, had red cards too.
You know.
So start looking.
You know, as Brother Nettiesaid, be intentional about
looking and noticing, because wejust pass by people every day
that you know, unless we'relooking, they're just they're
(44:27):
not there.
As we're looking, they're justthey're not there.
But smiling at somebody, and bethe first to you know if
they're not smiling or theydon't smile back.
You know, pray for them.
Just God opens doors all thetime.
You know.
Sometimes you go, okay, let'shave a breather, you know
(44:49):
whatever.
But I think the Lordintentionally opens doors as
well.
So my counsel would be to smile, make eye contact and be the
first to just acknowledge we'reboth human.
Let me just treat you as ahuman.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Paula, that's incredible counsel, counsel that
I will incorporate into my ownlife, and so thank you for
sharing it and thank you forbeing, on this episode of Living
, reconciled with us.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
We have gleaned oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Oh my goodness, we have gleaned so much and learned
so much from you, and sohopefully, we will be able to
have you as a guest again.
So thank you so much again.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Well, you know how much I appreciate y'all and
candy.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am, Don't forget my beautiful
bride, who is most of thereason why I am what I am, next
to God's grace.
So yeah, for those of you allwho are listening, again, thank
you for joining us.
Paula Smith can be found on theMississippi Baptist page under
their Multicultural Ministries.
(45:56):
Again, she is the Director ofMulticultural Ministries and
Paula can be reached if you haveany questions or would like to
reach out to her for anyministry needs.
She can be found in that way.
Again, many thanks to Ms PaulaSmith.
And, on behalf of NettieWinters, this is Brian Crawford
signing off saying God bless.
Thanks for joining, livingReconciled.
(46:17):
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured that
Jesus has already secured,please visit us online at
missionmississippiorg or call usat 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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