May 14, 2025 • 50 mins
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What does it take to bring real change to a city that’s been written off? Pastor Chris Vowell shares how hope is rising in Greenville, Mississippi, through intentional unity across racial and denominational lines. From launching a community feeding ministry with a neighboring Black church to helping shift a city’s mindset from despair to possibility, this episode explores what happens when churches stop competing and start collaborating. Learn how everyday faith and persistent relationship-building are breathing life into the Mississippi Delta—and how you can be part of that movement wherever you are.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford.
(00:32):
Unfortunately, my good friendsNettie Winters, austin Hoyle are
not available to join us today,but I do have a really, really
good friend with us, a gentlemanby the name of Chris Vowell.
Chris is the pastor of EmanuelBaptist Church in Greenville,
mississippi, and I'm excited tohave Chris join us here today.
But before we have aconversation with Chris, I just
(00:54):
want to give a quick shout outto our sponsors folks like Brown
Baptist Church, folks like StDominic's Hospital, regions
Foundation, good friends likeAnn Winters, robert Ward Thanks
so much for all that you do.
Doris Powell, thanks so much forall you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and if you would like to joinour list of sponsors who make
(01:16):
Living Reconciled possible, wewould love for you to do that.
Here's how you can do it youcan go to missionmississippiorg
click on the invest button,which is normally at the top
right, and you can sow into thiswork, this ministry, this
organization, and by so doing,you are sowing into the work of
this podcast, living Reconciled.
Again, my guest this morning isChris Vow.
(01:39):
He is the pastor of EmanuelBaptist Church in Greenville,
mississippi.
He's a husband, he's a father,he's a bridge builder, and I
couldn't be more excited anddelighted to have him.
Chris, how are you doing today,sir?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Doing well.
I'm excited to be on here withyou, brian, looking forward to
it Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Chris, why don't you start Just tell a little bit
about yourself and share alittle bit about your story of
how you came to faith and howyou ended up in ministry serving
in the Greenville area?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, you slow me down whenever I need to, because
, as I get rolling with all this, grew up in Philadelphia,
mississippi, and came to Christat 23.
Actually, had grown up, playeda lot of ball, worked in the
family business, which was thegrocery stores that I think kind
(02:30):
of laid the foundation, if youwill, just for some racial
reconciliation.
We worked with a lot of, had alot of Native Americans that
worked in the business with us,a lot of African Americans that
worked in the business with us,a lot of African Americans, and
so just we were thrown in theretogether.
And then also with sports,playing football, basketball and
(02:51):
baseball.
It was in the locker room withjust with all types of people.
So I think that kind ofprepared me to have a little bit
more of a heart.
So but when I finished upcollege at Ole Miss, moved back
to run a grocery store in myfamily in Newton and actually
(03:12):
started going to First BaptistNewton there, went off to a
Promise Keepers men's rally downin New Orleans and that was
around 96.
Franklin Graham was preaching.
It was right after EV Hill.
Ev Hill had just brought itright before Franklin Graham and
this little Methodist guy,because that's what I had grown
(03:33):
up in.
I had never heard anything likeEV Hill.
Things started stirring.
So that night when FranklinGraham gave the altar call, I
came out of the upper deck ofthe Superdome, really thought I
was recommitting.
I really felt like man I'vebeen around the church all my
life I'm just kind ofrededicating my life but
(03:56):
actually got born again thatnight.
It was just like a radical dealof the Lord turning the lights
on and everything changed.
A radical deal of the Lordturning the lights on and
everything changed.
So I had gotten my businessdegree at Ole Miss plans just to
be in the Vowels marketplace,the grocery business.
That's what I was going to dowith my life.
And over the next five or sixmonths, I guess, the Lord
(04:21):
started calling me to ministryand so we were working through.
Does that look like staying inthe grocery business, being a
deacon, or is that stepping intothis whole thing?
And so I headed to New OrleansSeminary pretty soon after that
and I got my master's there andthen came back to Philadelphia
(04:43):
and ministered there for years,right Before kind of like one of
those Macedonian calls weweren't putting resumes out and
looking to come to the Delta.
God just kind of pointed us here.
So we've been here now forthree years and you know you'd
hear a lot of folks say, well,you know, everybody's moving out
(05:05):
of the Delta and there were alot of people in our church and
other places that were just justspeaking death over, oh, this
area.
And so for the first just twoor three months of being here we
were, we were just kind ofcoming to that whole let's speak
life rather than death andstarted to see some change in
(05:27):
people's hearts and minds, youknow, with what they were saying
.
And so it was kind of fun.
God's timing and he's all aboutjust being right on time.
You know, pretty soon after wegot here, chick-fil-a opened.
That was kind of a big shot inthe arm.
That kind of started causingpeople to say maybe something's
going on Right and so.
So as as we focused onobviously preaching the gospel
(05:51):
and reaching a lot of people,we've also been focused on
trying to plug in withgovernment, with business, with
even the sportsplex here in town, right, we've been a part of
helping to reopen that over thelast couple of years.
So that's a snapshot.
Now, brian, I can go and go andgo, you just redirect me, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, man, absolutely no.
That's a great snapshot deal ofyour intersection with sports,
the grocery business and howthat relates to your call by God
, so to speak, to kind of be aconnector and bridging gaps.
(06:33):
It just sounds like that's anobvious landing space for you,
because sports are in many waysa great uniter in terms of
basketball, football, baseballwhere you got people from all
different walks of life not justcolor but class, culture coming
(06:54):
together for just kind of onecommon goal and that oftentimes
has been a very strong testimonyin many lives in terms of
allowing people to learn outacross spaces.
Has that served in a similarway for you in terms of sports?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It really has.
And I would even go back onestep before my mom and dad.
My dad was a high school coachbefore he got into the grocery
business with my grandfather ohwow.
And actually the great MarcusDupree that came out of
Philadelphia, right, he was injunior high when my dad was
(07:27):
coaching there at PhiladelphiaHigh School.
But my mom and dad both were ineducation right, and so they
were in public schools and so Ijust kind of came up in this,
even though I was born in 72after the 60s and civil rights
with Philadelphia.
But I kind of grew up in aplace of really just being wide
(07:51):
open to a lot.
I think my mom one of thestories we've got a team from
Emanuel going to Nigeria inabout two weeks, I think, and my
mom got excited about it.
They had this was some of the,I think, foundation work with my
parents that was laid for me.
They were from Knox of PaterBaptist Church.
(08:14):
My mom and dad right Grew upthere.
They supported a particularmissionary to Nigeria.
I didn't remember that untilthe other day when she talked
about it, but my mom struggledwith how their church her dad
was a deacon they supported thismission work in Nigeria but the
(08:37):
doors of Knox, of Pater BaptistChurch, were not open to
African-Americans and so hercoming up in that.
I've heard the story more thanonce with her, a deal of her
saying she really struggled withhow do we reach these blacks
and sow money and sendmissionaries to Nigeria.
(08:59):
But when we come home toWinston County it was kind of a
double deal right.
So I think my mom and dad hadthat in them with coaching.
I just saw it in both of themthat they just loved people,
regardless of color, regardlessof how much money.
They just met them where theywere.
(09:21):
So I think they modeled thatwell.
I'm realizing that as I'mtalking to you, brian.
They really put that in there,you know.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah yeah, fantastic man, fantastic.
And you talked a little bitabout Greenville and kind of
this, this middle cloud, if Ican put it that way, in terms of
people seeing commerce,business opportunities leave and
(09:49):
sort of, as a result of thatkind of carrying this sort of
hopelessness that what good isthe work going to do?
People are leaving, the town isdying.
There's nothing here thatcreates or generates hope, that
(10:10):
generates joy, and you've talkedabout how you've worked on just
trying to create a new story,tell a better story.
I guess not necessarily createa new story, but tell a better
story and highlight the good,highlight the hope, highlight
the hope that exists, highlightthe light that exists in the
community.
Let's, let's peel that back alittle bit more.
Talk about some of the ways inwhich, um, you've seen this play
(10:35):
out and and not not just inword, but even in, maybe, the
posture that that people havetaken towards the city and talk
about some of the ways in whichyou see light in Greenville.
That encourages you.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That's good.
Our church out here is on about100 acres.
It's kind of a unique dealsitting out here in the Delta.
When we got here, even thoughit had gone through a good bit
of decline over years, it wasalmost large enough that you
(11:08):
could just stay on this campusand just do ministry.
You could just be in your ownlittle world just doing a manual
with taking care of things.
But when we got here God pushedme toward getting in the Rotary
Club here in town and that wasone of the things that started
(11:28):
to kind of help me see the wholearea a little bit more right.
Because if you're in WashingtonCounty and I think the figures
are about 70% African-Americanin the county, about 30% white
right In the city, you may evenbe a little closer to 80-20,
right.
And so coming in here you'llsee a lot of the white churches
(11:52):
have just closed and gone right.
And so you come in here andjust the observation is, wow,
how are we just living in twodifferent worlds when the
numbers are like that Right?
And so with it it was just kindof coming from Philadelphia
where I had worked with Nettie,some we had done some
(12:14):
Mississippi worked through somethings there to help build some
bridges.
Coming here, it was like, wow,how much more do we need it Now?
You kept talking about hopethere.
Hope deferred, the word says,makes us sick, right, yes, yes,
but a longing fulfills a tree oflife, and so we've seen a
(12:35):
little of that.
I mentioned Chick-fil-A, butalso, right up from our campus,
here at the church, we've gotthe Washington County Sportsplex
.
Well, I've got a seven-year-oldson He'll be eight this summer
that we adopted, and so I woulddrive by.
He played in the city leaguethe first year we were here,
played a little tee ball and thefields there they just didn't
(12:58):
have the space all to handleeverything.
But the sportsplex had beenclosed, right, and so I would
drive by the sportsplex.
See these lights, these fields,all this stuff out there, and I
thought this is unbelievablethat the fields are just,
they're just closed, right.
So it worked out that the boardof supervisors put together a
(13:20):
board to try to resurrect it.
That would be a good word.
Gather aboard to try toresurrect it, that would be a
good word.
And so here we are in thesecond season of those fields
being back open.
I don't know if there are about400, a little bit more than
that kids that are out therethis time, but it goes to what
you're saying.
With hope People, it's so easyto just remember the bad and
(13:45):
almost just keep cursing it.
Well, you know it's going tohappen.
So here's the thing and I thinkmy dad kind of put this in me
when you start seeing a littlebit of a winner, you know
whether it's the sports flexopening back up, whether it is
some business opportunities.
There are some that come about.
(14:06):
People start saying, well, wemay not go back to where
Greenville was in the 90sovernight, right, but maybe we
can at least move in thatdirection a little.
And so what we've tried to dothrough the church, we've got
that the Shipley Donuts ownersare here in our church, right,
(14:29):
and so we had done it.
It wasn't a big deal, but wereached out to all the public
and private schools, city,county, the whole deal.
And kind of the back to schooldeal.
We loaded up the teachers withShipley Donuts, right, just a
way of saying we care, we wantto build a bridge, right.
It's continually been.
(14:50):
You know you can't sit back,obviously.
You got to.
What does it say?
Pray like everything'sdependent on the Lord and then
work like everything's dependenton us.
But I think, even like with youcoming to town and doing some
of the meetings we've had, youjust have to keep plugging and
plugging and plugging to getsome of the momentum.
(15:12):
And then I'm a guy that I knowsometimes people get a little
tired of it, but if I'm in thepulpit I am trying to remind
everybody up there of all thewinners we've seen everybody up
there, of all the winners we'veseen, for example, not on a
racial side, but First BaptistFlorence gave us one of their
(15:33):
old vans here the other day.
It was in great shape, it wasabout 20 years old.
We just put the new letters onit.
But with that, when you startto see the Lord bless and bring
encouragement in some ways, oneof the big things that you and
me didn't talk about it theother day, but downtown the old
(15:57):
Salvation Army had been closed,right, it had down on Broadway.
It's right there, about a blockfrom Doe's Steakhouse, right.
So everybody knows about Doe'sbut the old Salvation Army was
just closed.
Well, this was a neat piece,that Pastor Tom Morris is it
Greater Hines Missionary BaptistChurch, right there, he and
(16:18):
Elijah Smith, one of his deacons, got together with myself and
three guys from our church andwe bought that old thing and
started a nonprofit calledSacred Space.
Well, it has reopened rightabout two years ago.
We're getting kind of close tothat two-year spot.
Well, we're doing homelesssheltering down there.
(16:41):
Why, we're doing transitionhousing for men on one side of
Broadway and then since then webought an old personal care home
on the other side for women,right, wow.
And then we're feeding thecommunity every Tuesday night.
And so with that there's beenwhite churches, black churches.
(17:01):
You've had sororities andfraternities come in there, so
that's been a place.
It's a powerful picture of whenyou've got some of the homeless
from right down on Broadway inthere with some of the
wealthiest folks in WashingtonCounty on a Tuesday night.
(17:22):
So that's been another piece,right.
So we've tried to focus on theeducation mountain, if you will.
We've tried to get in there onthat business and political, but
then we've, sure enough, donethe church thing right.
We've seen a lot of people cometo Christ.
Obviously that's where somehearts are going to get changed
(17:45):
and some minds get renewed,right yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, chris, my goodness, you said a ton of
things that really stand out tome.
One of the things that youmentioned to me is how people
can lose hope based on the paceof progress they can, they can,
they can, even if you mention,hey, here's a good thing, that's
(18:10):
happening, here's another goodthing that's happening.
People, oftentimes we, we thinkback to the, to the, to the
heyday, so to speak, and we seeone or two good things that are
happening now and we say, well,it's nothing like it was in the
90s.
It's like okay, okay, well, wedidn't get here, we didn't get
here in a day from where we werein the 90s.
(18:32):
And so, certainly, if we didn'tget here where we are today,
from the 90s in a day, then alsowe're not going to get back to
any semblance of you know, aheyday, so to speak, in a day.
It's going to take slow,methodical, intentional plotting
away, taking the steps, likeyou said, seizing the wins that
(18:53):
we get and then building onthose wins, because you know we
have a oh, go ahead, go ahead,jump in.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well, let me just a couple thoughts with that.
You know, from Philadelphiawe're about two and a half to
three hours from Greenville, soI didn't know much about
Greenville.
I mean it was the third largestcity in the state, right.
Right, when you back up andlook at that you're just like,
and so you understand to yourpoint, to go from there to, you
(19:20):
know, gradual decline, right.
But I think what you weresaying is you know, somebody's
got to cast the vision that Godhas, right, because if the
vision's gone and we're allsending our kids out of here as
soon as they finish, right, andif nobody's.
But see some of the things themayor, city council, the
(19:42):
Washington County Board ofSupervisors they've really been
doing a good job.
Justin Burch, our economicdevelopment director guy, really
has a lot of connections andrelationships.
They're doing some downtownrenovation.
We've got the new federalcourthouse that's getting close
to finishing.
(20:03):
There there's been biginvestment.
Now there's some discussion onhow it's going to play out.
The new bypass coming throughright.
We've got all kinds ofconstruction here with that.
So we've had energy has come in.
There's a tremendous powerplant that's being built here in
the near future.
There's gas line coming.
(20:23):
There's all types ofopportunity.
See my dad who sold out of thegrocery business to my uncle.
He did that years ago, right,he's in economic community
development there in Neshoba,right.
So when we moved here andyou're saying you've got four
lane access through here, you'vegot airports, they flew in
(20:45):
Kamala Harris, flew in Biden,since we've been here, used to
have the big military, butyou've got the river, you've got
the rail, you've got all thatthat's still here that my dad
would love in Philadelphia,neshama County.
So I think to your point, howdo you kind of reset or recharge
(21:08):
and move ahead?
And I just, we believe Godbrought us here and he's what
some dry bones are starting towrap, Not just in the church but
throughout the community.
Right, it takes some faiththere, brian, it's gotta be, you
know, really stepping out andbelieving and walking it out.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And it's a real.
It's a real shift.
It's a real shift in mentality,it's a real shift in the heart.
Uh, because there's a, there'sa pain, there's a, there's a
trauma, if you will, that comeswith seeing a community go down,
and you begin to kind of takethat story and it begins to
shape any story going forward,that story from the past, that
(21:52):
story of watching things kind oferode.
It begins to shape everythingthat you see in front of you.
You begin to say to yourself,well, I mean, yeah, that's good,
but when is that going to fail?
Too?
Right, it's like no, it doesn'thave to fail, it doesn't have
to fail.
This could actually go well.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right, there you go.
And so here one of the bigthings that I think where the
church right, where we've got tobe the ones that are different.
And that's where I was saying,you know, as a man thinks within
himself, so he is.
And then we speak life insteadof death.
If the people that are sittingin a church every Sunday sound
(22:38):
the same way that that old boythat was out drunk on Saturday
night sounds on Monday,something's wrong with the
picture, right?
So we've tried to focus in onif we get some people with their
minds renewed.
Keep casting a vision.
Yeah, you're going to have somepeople laugh at you when you
cast the vision.
Noah had a few people laugh athim, right, all of that type
deal.
But you're right, when it'sgone down so much, it's hard.
I sat down with a business ownerhere in town probably two years
(23:03):
ago.
He started kind of coming backto the church and we sat down
and had lunch one day and hesaid, chris, he said I hope
you're right about some of thisstuff you're saying Right, and I
was like you know, I reallyfeel like the Lord's given it,
let's just speak it out.
But his family has beentransformed in the last year
(23:26):
seeing his children come toChrist.
It's been crazy, right.
Well, that's where you and mewould come from an angle of
saying, look, let's get them toJesus, let's start to let them
walk with him, and then Ibelieve that the body of Christ
we're the ones that are going tobring.
See, I love the verse in Amosthat says surely the sovereign
(23:48):
Lord does nothing withoutrevealing it to his servants,
the prophets, right?
So if the Lord's doingsomething special in Greenville,
if we're tuned in to him, hewants to show us Right.
And so if he say and look out,out, here, I'm coming right, so
we've seen some momentum,there's some good things, but
(24:10):
you know back to, I think, themain reason you and me are
sitting here doing this today.
Some people will tell you whenyou go back to the economic
decline, right, some people willsay, well, it was NAFTA, it was
some of the jobs moving.
But some people will go backbecause I just ask questions and
listen, I wasn't here.
(24:31):
And some will tell you that itdid go back to some of the
racial divide that some of thefactories that were here as they
kind of worked through.
I don't know if it was just aclash of some of the you know
you're not going to tell us towork, or those won't help, or
(24:54):
they're not whatever types ofdynamics.
Some people say that, as therewas a clashing of give us those
jobs, let's keep these jobs, allof this type stuff.
That that's where some of thosefactories pulled out of the
racial tension that was there.
(25:16):
Some would say it was maybe 20,25 years ago.
But the good news is I've heardsome people say that a lot of
that has settled since and therehas been a lot more.
Let's say more.
I don't know if I'd say a lotmore.
There has been more comingtogether to try to say look,
(25:36):
we're all here.
I mean Greenville still haswhat 27,000, 28,000 in the city
right now.
It used to have what somewhere40 to 45.
And so there's a lot of peoplethat are almost like okay, if
we're staying here, and some ofour young guys that you've met
they're starting to say look, ifwe're not fixing to take our
(25:57):
money and move to Madison, whatdo we need to do here to turn
this thing around?
Right, right right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know when I'm on the road, chris, we often
basically communicate thatthere's a lot of reasons to live
reconciled.
A lot of them are spiritual andthe primary reasons are
spiritual.
Jesus prays for it.
Paul tells us this is who weare and we need to walk in that
(26:26):
calling, according to Ephesians2 and Ephesians 4, we need to
walk in a manner worthy of thatcalling.
And so it's about obedience,it's about evangelism and
missions, because Jesus praysfor it.
He says by this they'll knowthat the father sent me and that
he loved me and he loved, heloved them or love you by your
oneness.
(26:46):
That's how the world will knowthat.
And so we hear, we hear all ofthese examples that we're given,
but one if you, if you, if you,if you're not, say you're not a
Christian, there's, even if youare not a Christian and never
will be a Christian, there'salso a reason for you to walk in
oneness because it is practical.
(27:08):
Flourishing in a community istied to the ability of a
community to actually learn howto get along.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Amen.
That's so well said, brian.
Because, like I said, we don'twant to come from such a
spiritual perspective that we'reup in the clouds.
We're sitting here saying, ifwe've got schools that are
struggling, see back toPhiladelphia.
We had Philadelphia.
Public schools have been workingthrough challenges, right,
while in Neshoba Central thecounty school is just exploding
(27:43):
right, tremendous there, right.
Well then you come here and youhave the private opportunities.
Our son actually goes to thepublic school down at Riverside,
down kind of in Western LineDistrict, so a little south of
town, right.
But when you look at some ofthe real challenges city and
county with schools here you'resaying the practical is how are
(28:06):
we going to raise up a workforce, ok, how are we going to keep
(28:29):
some relationships that aregoing to be good?
So you said it, it's not anovernight deal.
You're not going to turn thisship around right off.
Watch the corn growing out here.
Right now Some seeds have beensown that I would say.
We're also seeing a quickerreturn on our money than you
usually do.
It's almost like we'reharvesting where others have
(28:54):
sown you know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, that's good Chris.
Good Chris, talk to me a littlebit about your experience in
Philadelphia.
Okay, a little bit about yourexperience in Philadelphia, okay
, and and because you spent,obviously, raised there, family
you know were grocers there andand and you played sports,
played ball, triple, triple,triple athlete.
You know baseball, football,basketball, so you got all kinds
(29:17):
of experiences there inPhiladelphia.
Tell me a little bit about theterrain there from your vantage
point as it relates to the storyof race, the story of
reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Okay With Nettie.
I got connected with Nettie andI may have shared this with you
.
There was a big event inJackson at the stadium right,
where they brought the statetogether and I don't even
remember how.
Victor Smith was a guy from theJackson area that we got
(29:50):
connected with, my wife and I ona mission trip.
We did some Honduras and thenalso Malawi with him, but I
think he was the one who waslike Chris, you need to come
over to this.
I think that's how it startedand so ended up there kind of
representing the Shoba Countyright, and they're just our
little group that was doing thatcounty thing, and so from that,
(30:13):
I think, nettie, we started tobuild some bridges.
We actually, you know, you havePhiladelphia and Greenville.
There's some similarities.
Both have black mayors right,your city population of
government.
There were some open doors withhim and that I could just kind
(30:45):
of step through a little fasterright.
So you've got Leroy Clemens,who's actually running for mayor
.
He's won on the Democratic sidethis time and running against a
Republican here soon.
But he was an NAACP guy that'sreally been involved in a lot of
the civil rights, the history,a lot of the things there.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So he and I- the Shovel Youth Coalition as well
Coalition there you go withLeroy.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
You know him, I figured you did.
We actually we did something.
My wife and I started anonprofit called the Mississippi
Combine that we had cranked upthere in Philadelphia.
We were doing some.
It was a house of prayer onTuesday nights, praying kind of
over those seven mountains ofinfluence, just kind of those
targets right.
(31:33):
But we were also praying forthe sick, praying for healing
there.
But we actually had somemeetings there with Leroy.
I think it was actuallysponsored by Kellogg's right.
It was kind of a comingtogether.
So we had done some of that.
And then my wife and I hadplanted a Crossway Community
Church.
Nettie had come in for one ofthose before we left and so we
(31:57):
were doing some of this.
How do we build it?
Let's have the dialogue, havethe conversations.
And I think one of the thingsthat's excited me about you
being here in Greenville overthe last few months, I like the
model that you kind of seecoming forth, that let's do the
(32:17):
dialogue, let's keep that steady, let's keep us keep going
deeper.
Every opportunity, the HolySpirit, let's keep that steady,
let's keep going deeper, Everyopportunity.
The Holy Spirit kind of takesus there.
But as we're doing some work inthe community together.
I believe that's almostaccelerating things.
So we were doing some of thatback in Philadelphia.
(32:38):
We were a part of the alliancethere that was doing like a big
Thanksgiving service and so theraces, we would come together
over at Jerusalem uh templePentecostal church, larger black
Pentecostal church but youmentioned it in our meeting this
past week people would kind ofgo home and say, wow, that was
(32:58):
great, we had Choctaws there, wehad blacks there, we had whites
there.
And then most people would say,well, we'll see you next year.
So we did some of that and Iwould say because you understand
, I'm not being negative right,yeah, absolutely, it was almost
like some walls would startcoming down.
(33:19):
Right, yeah, absolutely, it wasalmost like some walls would
start coming down right, and Godin his time is kind of taking
us into a little bit more, right.
So, our church here inGreenville, wide open right On a
Sunday morning we may have fiveto 10% black right and I
(33:41):
believe folks that are coming inand out, ours has not become
like y'all, brian, 40, 60 or 50,50, right, but I bring that up
to say you know, I believe thewhite church and the black
church, right, we're on time,that the only way we're going to
(34:02):
see some real Mississippichange, I believe that's going
to last.
I mean, I rejoice in some ofthe education changes.
I've seen some of that with thegovernor, also with economic
development, but I believe thatthere's that coming together.
Dutch Sheets is a guy that heactually was in our church there
(34:24):
in Philadelphia at one timebefore we came here, written a
book on intercession andintercessory prayer and he's a
guy that's shared in Floridaabout how there is going to be a
real move of reconciliation inMississippi of all places.
(34:48):
And so I believe we're makingthose steps.
What Mission Mississippi?
What?
Dolphus Nettie now you as y'allhave just kept paving it.
Elphys Nettie, now you as y'allhave just kept paving it.
I believe as we see anoutpouring of the Spirit of God,
I believe you're going to seeharvest and we're going to kind
(35:09):
of move into.
I'm not one of those pie in thesky that, oh, it's just going
to fall in there, but I believe,with what y'all paved the way
for, I believe that's wherewe're headed.
I believe when he released that, it was a word from the Lord
and that's something we'reheaded towards.
So me growing up inPhiladelphia when civil rights
(35:30):
murders took place, right.
But then moving to Greenvillewhere you had the 27 flood, that
.
So I mean I've read throughsome of the history there.
We actually, on Wednesdaymornings, we prayed downtown.
There's a hotel that's part ofwhere that property was, that
used to be the old levy board.
(35:51):
That with the 27 flood, I thinkthe vice president may have
come into this area, but you goback and not just with slavery,
not just with all the things ofplantation life, but when that
flood took place there was amajor change from this area,
(36:13):
racially, right, yeah.
And so I'm just saying God, godhad me in Philly, he has me in
Greenville, and so there's somelittle things he wants me to see
.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, yes, chris, you mentioned this ideal of the
coming together the one time ayear, and it's good and it's
healthy, and I have to alwayskind of in some ways, I guess,
regulate myself and my own youknow ambition, so to speak, to
(36:46):
want to see unity and oneness inthe body of Christ.
I want to celebrate thosethings.
I want to say yes and amen.
When we get together, when wehave these deep conversations
and we bring the communitytogether around that, I want to
say yes and amen.
But oftentimes the tension thatI'm faced with is that it feels
(37:07):
like that becomes a challengeto wrestle people away from.
In this sense, we oftentimesconfuse progress with completion
, and so oftentimes what we willdo is there will be a moment, a
signature moment, that wecelebrate.
(37:27):
Hey, look at that, we cametogether, we had breakfast
together, we had lunch together,we had dinner together, we had
a dialogue, and that dialoguewas really rich and we learned
some things about one anotherthat we had never learned
concerning one another, and sothat's great.
And so then, when we come backand we ask the question, have we
arrived?
A lot of times people will say,well, yeah, I mean, I think
we're there.
I mean, you know, because wehad that thing last year,
(37:49):
remember that thing last yearthat we did and it's like no,
don't confuse progress withcompletion.
There's still a tremendousamount of work for us yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And let me ask you this real honest question with
that yeah, do you feel like thatresponse usually comes from the
white side, saying oh, we'vereally come a long way, or would
you say it equally comes fromboth sides?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, come a long way , or would you say it equally
comes from both sides?
Yeah, based on and this is, youknow, this is not empirical data
, so don't so this is moreanecdotal, this is just my work
across the state.
I would definitely say that Ihear a lot of majority culture
thinking in those terms than Ido minority culture thinking in
those terms, and I think it hasa lot to do with positioning.
(38:42):
So, for example, when you thinkabout minority culture, there's
always not always there'stypically a journey towards
something being seen, recognized, acknowledged, opportunities
being made available.
There's a journey towards it.
There's a reaching, so to speak, right.
(39:03):
And so, because there's areaching, then they sense that
the progress is still on goalright Versus the majority
culture.
They are in position and thereis typically a giving, a sharing
of that position, right, and sothe minority culture is trying
to move towards a position.
(39:23):
The majority culture is inposition and yielding space for
other people to reach thatposition.
And so oftentimes I think again, this is not empirically, this
is just anecdotally.
I think that's why you hearwhat you hear some of the some
of the time, as it relates tominority versus majority culture
.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's what I would kind of think.
That's why I was asking it thatway.
And as you're talking throughsome of that, you know I
remember with with Nettie and Iguess there's a little tension
that because when you're saying,ok, we're, we're not there yet,
because when you're saying,okay, we're not there yet we are
(40:14):
making progress.
There's also a tension in howmuch time do we spend diving
deeper in the relationship,having some dinners together,
getting together as families.
But also to your other pointearlier that we're working
together on some communityevents, right?
Yes, yes, there's even got to bethat balance there right.
Yes yes, Because we do want.
I mean, the relationships aregetting better and getting
deeper.
Yes, but to bringtransformation to a community
(40:35):
you've got to be out therecasting that vision too.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, we put it in three boxes, chris.
That's intercession.
A family that prays togetherstays together, and I believe
that's not just simply yournuclear family, but I believe
that's your extended family andyour community families.
So families that pray togetherstay together.
So intercession is at the rootof all essential and significant
movements that we're going tosee in the body of Christ and in
(41:02):
communities that have theiranchors in the church.
But then information, and that'seducation, training, coaching,
equipping people to do to getalong.
We say it all the time that theproblem is not simply that we
don't get along across ethniclines, cultural lines, political
(41:23):
lines.
The problem is we don't getalong and the ethnicities,
cultures and politics just drivethose divisions deeper.
But there's a relationship,there's a relational deficiency
that shapes the divides, and sowe have to work on that
deficiency.
So the information piece isabout working on that deficiency
(41:45):
and building better capacityand fluency as it relates to how
we do relationships.
But then the third piece isintervention intervening into
local churches, intervening intohomes, intervening into
communities, and that includesthe intercession that we've been
doing, the informationcomponent of building new
relationships and building newnetworks.
(42:22):
It includes going deeper inthose relationships, and so all
of that we feel like isessential in reconciliation
movements.
Right, and that's when we talkabout the local movements,
whether it be in Greenville,which, by God's grace, you know
the Lord, is breathing new air,new life.
(42:42):
Yes, sir, New life in the workin Greenville or whether it's
other places that we're working.
It's all about trying to really, really really nail down those
three components of intervention, or intercession, rather
information, and thenintervention, if that makes
sense.
Hey, Chris man, this has been agreat, great podcast.
(43:02):
In fact, we've gone longer thanwe anticipated.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I hadn't even been able to keep up with how long
we've been going.
I knew we were still justgetting in.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, man, absolutely .
So we may have to bring you onsomewhere down the road, for a
second podcast.
Yeah, let me land the plane byasking you this Okay, you're a
second podcast.
Yeah, let me let me land theplane by asking you this Okay,
what, what?
You're a hopeful man.
What is really, really reallybringing you hope in the city of
Greenville, the community ofWashington County?
What's really really really uh,stirring the flames of hope for
(43:33):
you right now?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I tell you that the three or four pieces and this
would kind of, I mentionedsacred space to you, Some whites
and blacks coming together fromtwo separate churches, right.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
That kicked in some momentum.
The ministerial alliance herethat you met, pastor Yates yes,
I think I'm the only white guy.
That's a part of that white guy, that's a part of that.
But there's been a good bridgebuilt with our church with so
many of the men and women inthat alliance, right as we've
(44:07):
done had the tent meeting withMississippi Mass Choir.
We've had two of those events,one down on Broadway at Sacred
Space, one out at the mall.
But with that alliance, some ofthose ministers who've been
faithful, that intercession side, the first time I went to their
meeting they were crying outand praying.
(44:29):
It was like an old blackspiritual song.
And I told them.
I said, folks, what we'reseeing God begin to do, I
believe, is directly connectedto those prayers.
Right, and so now some of thosefolks who were in the
background praying.
They're coming on out into theforefront, whether it's feeding
(44:52):
down at Sacred Space as analliance, whether it's helping
with these community events orI'd shared with you.
We get to host their BibleInstitute out here on campus,
one of our cottages on a Mondaynight On that 100 acres.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Out here on that 100 acres.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
They've been blessed, we've been blessed.
They have somewhere from 20 to30 that they're educating the
church, raising the church up togo get it done.
So those pieces.
But I would also say here nowthis is compared to Philadelphia
, philadelphia being a redcounty, over there in Neshoba
(45:35):
being blue, over here inGreenville, in Washington County
, the schools and the governmenthere, I believe, because of
some of the black church rootsis what I would say they seem to
be more open to the church,bringing the influence right.
(45:56):
You know where the whitecommunities have kind of been.
Well, there's that church andstate separation.
There's all that discussion,right, you know where the white
communities have kind of been.
Well, there's that church andstate separation.
There's all that discussionright Over here.
It's been like a green light tosay if y'all as the church want
to bring some money, bring some.
So there's an open door.
There's some adversaries, right, like the word says.
(46:18):
So those are the things.
There's almost like a favor onsome church leaders, white and
black, to say because of that,let's go back, because of the
hope that had been lost.
They're saying, maybe thechurch has the answer, brian,
how about that?
And so they're.
Really those would be thepieces right there and then I
(46:42):
throw in the sportsplex.
I think, as we watch that downthe road, it's going to be a
neat piece of bringing peopletogether out there in a good,
healthy spot, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, yeah, Chris man , I am so incredibly grateful
that God has placed you and yourfamily in Greenville.
You are an absolute light tothat community and a connector
and network in ways.
That's bringing a lot of piecesto the puzzle together in one
room to navigate through thechallenges with hope and with
(47:18):
optimism and with light man.
And so we are incrediblygrateful for the work that the
Lord is doing through you.
And how can people keep up withChris Vow and Emanuel Baptist
Church?
You got websites, social media.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, you can check us out on Facebook.
We do a good bit there with ourEmanuel Baptist Greenville.
We actually just got on thelocal radio on Sunday mornings.
We were kind of excited aboutthat little piece, and we've got
a brand new website that'scoming up here in about the next
week, right that we've beenworking on some things.
So, emmanuel Baptist Greenville, god's doing some good things
(47:55):
in the Delta, you know.
One last piece let me throw inthere.
We're a part of the Mid-DeltaBaptist Association and up at
Parchman, about an hour from us,god's doing a lot on the campus
at Parchman.
There's a new chapel that'sbeen built with some private
funds.
(48:15):
There's the New OrleansSeminary that's equipping some
of these guys in there, right.
So I just say, man, there'sjust, there's a new thing that
God's doing, and so I guess weall need to choose to either
speak life or keep, or keepcursing it all with death,
because there's some stuff, goodthings, coming, amen.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Amen.
Well, I appreciate youcontinuing to speak, life,
brother, and I will join you indoing the same.
Join you in doing the same.
It's been a pleasure to have myfriend and brother, Chris
Vowell, on this podcast episodeof Living Reconciled.
If you need to keep up withwhat's going on with Living
Reconciled, you can do so bygoing to any podcast app, any
podcast site Spotify, Amazon,Google, any of those sites.
(49:03):
Click on new subscription ornew podcast type in Living
Reconciled in the search engineand you will more than likely
find us Living Reconciled byMission Mississippi.
Again, it's been a pleasure anda privilege to host my friend,
Chris Vowell on this episode andwe look forward to having our
co-host, Nettie Winters andAustin Hoyle back with us.
(49:25):
But until then, this is BrianCrawford signing off saying God
bless.
Thank you, sir.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(49:47):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Thank you.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
I'm your host, brian Crawford.
(00:32):
Unfortunately, my good friendsNettie Winters, austin Hoyle are
not available to join us today,but I do have a really, really
good friend with us, a gentlemanby the name of Chris Vowell.
Chris is the pastor of EmanuelBaptist Church in Greenville,
mississippi, and I'm excited tohave Chris join us here today.
But before we have aconversation with Chris, I just
(00:54):
want to give a quick shout outto our sponsors folks like Brown
Baptist Church, folks like StDominic's Hospital, regions
Foundation, good friends likeAnn Winters, robert Ward Thanks
so much for all that you do.
Doris Powell, thanks so much forall you do.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and if you would like to joinour list of sponsors who make
(01:16):
Living Reconciled possible, wewould love for you to do that.
Here's how you can do it youcan go to missionmississippiorg
click on the invest button,which is normally at the top
right, and you can sow into thiswork, this ministry, this
organization, and by so doing,you are sowing into the work of
this podcast, living Reconciled.
Again, my guest this morning isChris Vow.
(01:39):
He is the pastor of EmanuelBaptist Church in Greenville,
mississippi.
He's a husband, he's a father,he's a bridge builder, and I
couldn't be more excited anddelighted to have him.
Chris, how are you doing today,sir?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Doing well.
I'm excited to be on here withyou, brian, looking forward to
it Awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Chris, why don't you start Just tell a little bit
about yourself and share alittle bit about your story of
how you came to faith and howyou ended up in ministry serving
in the Greenville area?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, you slow me down whenever I need to, because
, as I get rolling with all this, grew up in Philadelphia,
mississippi, and came to Christat 23.
Actually, had grown up, playeda lot of ball, worked in the
family business, which was thegrocery stores that I think kind
(02:30):
of laid the foundation, if youwill, just for some racial
reconciliation.
We worked with a lot of, had alot of Native Americans that
worked in the business with us,a lot of African Americans that
worked in the business with us,a lot of African Americans, and
so just we were thrown in theretogether.
And then also with sports,playing football, basketball and
(02:51):
baseball.
It was in the locker room withjust with all types of people.
So I think that kind ofprepared me to have a little bit
more of a heart.
So but when I finished upcollege at Ole Miss, moved back
to run a grocery store in myfamily in Newton and actually
(03:12):
started going to First BaptistNewton there, went off to a
Promise Keepers men's rally downin New Orleans and that was
around 96.
Franklin Graham was preaching.
It was right after EV Hill.
Ev Hill had just brought itright before Franklin Graham and
this little Methodist guy,because that's what I had grown
(03:33):
up in.
I had never heard anything likeEV Hill.
Things started stirring.
So that night when FranklinGraham gave the altar call, I
came out of the upper deck ofthe Superdome, really thought I
was recommitting.
I really felt like man I'vebeen around the church all my
life I'm just kind ofrededicating my life but
(03:56):
actually got born again thatnight.
It was just like a radical dealof the Lord turning the lights
on and everything changed.
A radical deal of the Lordturning the lights on and
everything changed.
So I had gotten my businessdegree at Ole Miss plans just to
be in the Vowels marketplace,the grocery business.
That's what I was going to dowith my life.
And over the next five or sixmonths, I guess, the Lord
(04:21):
started calling me to ministryand so we were working through.
Does that look like staying inthe grocery business, being a
deacon, or is that stepping intothis whole thing?
And so I headed to New OrleansSeminary pretty soon after that
and I got my master's there andthen came back to Philadelphia
(04:43):
and ministered there for years,right Before kind of like one of
those Macedonian calls weweren't putting resumes out and
looking to come to the Delta.
God just kind of pointed us here.
So we've been here now forthree years and you know you'd
hear a lot of folks say, well,you know, everybody's moving out
(05:05):
of the Delta and there were alot of people in our church and
other places that were just justspeaking death over, oh, this
area.
And so for the first just twoor three months of being here we
were, we were just kind ofcoming to that whole let's speak
life rather than death andstarted to see some change in
(05:27):
people's hearts and minds, youknow, with what they were saying
.
And so it was kind of fun.
God's timing and he's all aboutjust being right on time.
You know, pretty soon after wegot here, chick-fil-a opened.
That was kind of a big shot inthe arm.
That kind of started causingpeople to say maybe something's
going on Right and so.
So as as we focused onobviously preaching the gospel
(05:51):
and reaching a lot of people,we've also been focused on
trying to plug in withgovernment, with business, with
even the sportsplex here in town, right, we've been a part of
helping to reopen that over thelast couple of years.
So that's a snapshot.
Now, brian, I can go and go andgo, you just redirect me, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, man, absolutely no.
That's a great snapshot deal ofyour intersection with sports,
the grocery business and howthat relates to your call by God
, so to speak, to kind of be aconnector and bridging gaps.
(06:33):
It just sounds like that's anobvious landing space for you,
because sports are in many waysa great uniter in terms of
basketball, football, baseballwhere you got people from all
different walks of life not justcolor but class, culture coming
(06:54):
together for just kind of onecommon goal and that oftentimes
has been a very strong testimonyin many lives in terms of
allowing people to learn outacross spaces.
Has that served in a similarway for you in terms of sports?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It really has.
And I would even go back onestep before my mom and dad.
My dad was a high school coachbefore he got into the grocery
business with my grandfather ohwow.
And actually the great MarcusDupree that came out of
Philadelphia, right, he was injunior high when my dad was
(07:27):
coaching there at PhiladelphiaHigh School.
But my mom and dad both were ineducation right, and so they
were in public schools and so Ijust kind of came up in this,
even though I was born in 72after the 60s and civil rights
with Philadelphia.
But I kind of grew up in aplace of really just being wide
(07:51):
open to a lot.
I think my mom one of thestories we've got a team from
Emanuel going to Nigeria inabout two weeks, I think, and my
mom got excited about it.
They had this was some of the,I think, foundation work with my
parents that was laid for me.
They were from Knox of PaterBaptist Church.
(08:14):
My mom and dad right Grew upthere.
They supported a particularmissionary to Nigeria.
I didn't remember that untilthe other day when she talked
about it, but my mom struggledwith how their church her dad
was a deacon they supported thismission work in Nigeria but the
(08:37):
doors of Knox, of Pater BaptistChurch, were not open to
African-Americans and so hercoming up in that.
I've heard the story more thanonce with her, a deal of her
saying she really struggled withhow do we reach these blacks
and sow money and sendmissionaries to Nigeria.
(08:59):
But when we come home toWinston County it was kind of a
double deal right.
So I think my mom and dad hadthat in them with coaching.
I just saw it in both of themthat they just loved people,
regardless of color, regardlessof how much money.
They just met them where theywere.
(09:21):
So I think they modeled thatwell.
I'm realizing that as I'mtalking to you, brian.
They really put that in there,you know.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah yeah, fantastic man, fantastic.
And you talked a little bitabout Greenville and kind of
this, this middle cloud, if Ican put it that way, in terms of
people seeing commerce,business opportunities leave and
(09:49):
sort of, as a result of thatkind of carrying this sort of
hopelessness that what good isthe work going to do?
People are leaving, the town isdying.
There's nothing here thatcreates or generates hope, that
(10:10):
generates joy, and you've talkedabout how you've worked on just
trying to create a new story,tell a better story.
I guess not necessarily createa new story, but tell a better
story and highlight the good,highlight the hope, highlight
the hope that exists, highlightthe light that exists in the
community.
Let's, let's peel that back alittle bit more.
Talk about some of the ways inwhich, um, you've seen this play
(10:35):
out and and not not just inword, but even in, maybe, the
posture that that people havetaken towards the city and talk
about some of the ways in whichyou see light in Greenville.
That encourages you.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
That's good.
Our church out here is on about100 acres.
It's kind of a unique dealsitting out here in the Delta.
When we got here, even thoughit had gone through a good bit
of decline over years, it wasalmost large enough that you
(11:08):
could just stay on this campusand just do ministry.
You could just be in your ownlittle world just doing a manual
with taking care of things.
But when we got here God pushedme toward getting in the Rotary
Club here in town and that wasone of the things that started
(11:28):
to kind of help me see the wholearea a little bit more right.
Because if you're in WashingtonCounty and I think the figures
are about 70% African-Americanin the county, about 30% white
right In the city, you may evenbe a little closer to 80-20,
right.
And so coming in here you'llsee a lot of the white churches
(11:52):
have just closed and gone right.
And so you come in here andjust the observation is, wow,
how are we just living in twodifferent worlds when the
numbers are like that Right?
And so with it it was just kindof coming from Philadelphia
where I had worked with Nettie,some we had done some
(12:14):
Mississippi worked through somethings there to help build some
bridges.
Coming here, it was like, wow,how much more do we need it Now?
You kept talking about hopethere.
Hope deferred, the word says,makes us sick, right, yes, yes,
but a longing fulfills a tree oflife, and so we've seen a
(12:35):
little of that.
I mentioned Chick-fil-A, butalso, right up from our campus,
here at the church, we've gotthe Washington County Sportsplex
.
Well, I've got a seven-year-oldson He'll be eight this summer
that we adopted, and so I woulddrive by.
He played in the city leaguethe first year we were here,
played a little tee ball and thefields there they just didn't
(12:58):
have the space all to handleeverything.
But the sportsplex had beenclosed, right, and so I would
drive by the sportsplex.
See these lights, these fields,all this stuff out there, and I
thought this is unbelievablethat the fields are just,
they're just closed, right.
So it worked out that the boardof supervisors put together a
(13:20):
board to try to resurrect it.
That would be a good word.
Gather aboard to try toresurrect it, that would be a
good word.
And so here we are in thesecond season of those fields
being back open.
I don't know if there are about400, a little bit more than
that kids that are out therethis time, but it goes to what
you're saying.
With hope People, it's so easyto just remember the bad and
(13:45):
almost just keep cursing it.
Well, you know it's going tohappen.
So here's the thing and I thinkmy dad kind of put this in me
when you start seeing a littlebit of a winner, you know
whether it's the sports flexopening back up, whether it is
some business opportunities.
There are some that come about.
(14:06):
People start saying, well, wemay not go back to where
Greenville was in the 90sovernight, right, but maybe we
can at least move in thatdirection a little.
And so what we've tried to dothrough the church, we've got
that the Shipley Donuts ownersare here in our church, right,
(14:29):
and so we had done it.
It wasn't a big deal, but wereached out to all the public
and private schools, city,county, the whole deal.
And kind of the back to schooldeal.
We loaded up the teachers withShipley Donuts, right, just a
way of saying we care, we wantto build a bridge, right.
It's continually been.
(14:50):
You know you can't sit back,obviously.
You got to.
What does it say?
Pray like everything'sdependent on the Lord and then
work like everything's dependenton us.
But I think, even like with youcoming to town and doing some
of the meetings we've had, youjust have to keep plugging and
plugging and plugging to getsome of the momentum.
(15:12):
And then I'm a guy that I knowsometimes people get a little
tired of it, but if I'm in thepulpit I am trying to remind
everybody up there of all thewinners we've seen everybody up
there, of all the winners we'veseen, for example, not on a
racial side, but First BaptistFlorence gave us one of their
(15:33):
old vans here the other day.
It was in great shape, it wasabout 20 years old.
We just put the new letters onit.
But with that, when you startto see the Lord bless and bring
encouragement in some ways, oneof the big things that you and
me didn't talk about it theother day, but downtown the old
(15:57):
Salvation Army had been closed,right, it had down on Broadway.
It's right there, about a blockfrom Doe's Steakhouse, right.
So everybody knows about Doe'sbut the old Salvation Army was
just closed.
Well, this was a neat piece,that Pastor Tom Morris is it
Greater Hines Missionary BaptistChurch, right there, he and
(16:18):
Elijah Smith, one of his deacons, got together with myself and
three guys from our church andwe bought that old thing and
started a nonprofit calledSacred Space.
Well, it has reopened rightabout two years ago.
We're getting kind of close tothat two-year spot.
Well, we're doing homelesssheltering down there.
(16:41):
Why, we're doing transitionhousing for men on one side of
Broadway and then since then webought an old personal care home
on the other side for women,right, wow.
And then we're feeding thecommunity every Tuesday night.
And so with that there's beenwhite churches, black churches.
(17:01):
You've had sororities andfraternities come in there, so
that's been a place.
It's a powerful picture of whenyou've got some of the homeless
from right down on Broadway inthere with some of the
wealthiest folks in WashingtonCounty on a Tuesday night.
(17:22):
So that's been another piece,right.
So we've tried to focus on theeducation mountain, if you will.
We've tried to get in there onthat business and political, but
then we've, sure enough, donethe church thing right.
We've seen a lot of people cometo Christ.
Obviously that's where somehearts are going to get changed
(17:45):
and some minds get renewed,right yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, chris, my goodness, you said a ton of
things that really stand out tome.
One of the things that youmentioned to me is how people
can lose hope based on the paceof progress they can, they can,
they can, even if you mention,hey, here's a good thing, that's
(18:10):
happening, here's another goodthing that's happening.
People, oftentimes we, we thinkback to the, to the, to the
heyday, so to speak, and we seeone or two good things that are
happening now and we say, well,it's nothing like it was in the
90s.
It's like okay, okay, well, wedidn't get here, we didn't get
here in a day from where we werein the 90s.
(18:32):
And so, certainly, if we didn'tget here where we are today,
from the 90s in a day, then alsowe're not going to get back to
any semblance of you know, aheyday, so to speak, in a day.
It's going to take slow,methodical, intentional plotting
away, taking the steps, likeyou said, seizing the wins that
(18:53):
we get and then building onthose wins, because you know we
have a oh, go ahead, go ahead,jump in.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Well, let me just a couple thoughts with that.
You know, from Philadelphiawe're about two and a half to
three hours from Greenville, soI didn't know much about
Greenville.
I mean it was the third largestcity in the state, right.
Right, when you back up andlook at that you're just like,
and so you understand to yourpoint, to go from there to, you
(19:20):
know, gradual decline, right.
But I think what you weresaying is you know, somebody's
got to cast the vision that Godhas, right, because if the
vision's gone and we're allsending our kids out of here as
soon as they finish, right, andif nobody's.
But see some of the things themayor, city council, the
(19:42):
Washington County Board ofSupervisors they've really been
doing a good job.
Justin Burch, our economicdevelopment director guy, really
has a lot of connections andrelationships.
They're doing some downtownrenovation.
We've got the new federalcourthouse that's getting close
to finishing.
(20:03):
There there's been biginvestment.
Now there's some discussion onhow it's going to play out.
The new bypass coming throughright.
We've got all kinds ofconstruction here with that.
So we've had energy has come in.
There's a tremendous powerplant that's being built here in
the near future.
There's gas line coming.
(20:23):
There's all types ofopportunity.
See my dad who sold out of thegrocery business to my uncle.
He did that years ago, right,he's in economic community
development there in Neshoba,right.
So when we moved here andyou're saying you've got four
lane access through here, you'vegot airports, they flew in
(20:45):
Kamala Harris, flew in Biden,since we've been here, used to
have the big military, butyou've got the river, you've got
the rail, you've got all thatthat's still here that my dad
would love in Philadelphia,neshama County.
So I think to your point, howdo you kind of reset or recharge
(21:08):
and move ahead?
And I just, we believe Godbrought us here and he's what
some dry bones are starting towrap, Not just in the church but
throughout the community.
Right, it takes some faiththere, brian, it's gotta be, you
know, really stepping out andbelieving and walking it out.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And it's a real.
It's a real shift.
It's a real shift in mentality,it's a real shift in the heart.
Uh, because there's a, there'sa pain, there's a, there's a
trauma, if you will, that comeswith seeing a community go down,
and you begin to kind of takethat story and it begins to
shape any story going forward,that story from the past, that
(21:52):
story of watching things kind oferode.
It begins to shape everythingthat you see in front of you.
You begin to say to yourself,well, I mean, yeah, that's good,
but when is that going to fail?
Too?
Right, it's like no, it doesn'thave to fail, it doesn't have
to fail.
This could actually go well.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Right, there you go.
And so here one of the bigthings that I think where the
church right, where we've got tobe the ones that are different.
And that's where I was saying,you know, as a man thinks within
himself, so he is.
And then we speak life insteadof death.
If the people that are sittingin a church every Sunday sound
(22:38):
the same way that that old boythat was out drunk on Saturday
night sounds on Monday,something's wrong with the
picture, right?
So we've tried to focus in onif we get some people with their
minds renewed.
Keep casting a vision.
Yeah, you're going to have somepeople laugh at you when you
cast the vision.
Noah had a few people laugh athim, right, all of that type
deal.
But you're right, when it'sgone down so much, it's hard.
I sat down with a business ownerhere in town probably two years
(23:03):
ago.
He started kind of coming backto the church and we sat down
and had lunch one day and hesaid, chris, he said I hope
you're right about some of thisstuff you're saying Right, and I
was like you know, I reallyfeel like the Lord's given it,
let's just speak it out.
But his family has beentransformed in the last year
(23:26):
seeing his children come toChrist.
It's been crazy, right.
Well, that's where you and mewould come from an angle of
saying, look, let's get them toJesus, let's start to let them
walk with him, and then Ibelieve that the body of Christ
we're the ones that are going tobring.
See, I love the verse in Amosthat says surely the sovereign
(23:48):
Lord does nothing withoutrevealing it to his servants,
the prophets, right?
So if the Lord's doingsomething special in Greenville,
if we're tuned in to him, hewants to show us Right.
And so if he say and look out,out, here, I'm coming right, so
we've seen some momentum,there's some good things, but
(24:10):
you know back to, I think, themain reason you and me are
sitting here doing this today.
Some people will tell you whenyou go back to the economic
decline, right, some people willsay, well, it was NAFTA, it was
some of the jobs moving.
But some people will go backbecause I just ask questions and
listen, I wasn't here.
(24:31):
And some will tell you that itdid go back to some of the
racial divide that some of thefactories that were here as they
kind of worked through.
I don't know if it was just aclash of some of the you know
you're not going to tell us towork, or those won't help, or
(24:54):
they're not whatever types ofdynamics.
Some people say that, as therewas a clashing of give us those
jobs, let's keep these jobs, allof this type stuff.
That that's where some of thosefactories pulled out of the
racial tension that was there.
(25:16):
Some would say it was maybe 20,25 years ago.
But the good news is I've heardsome people say that a lot of
that has settled since and therehas been a lot more.
Let's say more.
I don't know if I'd say a lotmore.
There has been more comingtogether to try to say look,
(25:36):
we're all here.
I mean Greenville still haswhat 27,000, 28,000 in the city
right now.
It used to have what somewhere40 to 45.
And so there's a lot of peoplethat are almost like okay, if
we're staying here, and some ofour young guys that you've met
they're starting to say look, ifwe're not fixing to take our
(25:57):
money and move to Madison, whatdo we need to do here to turn
this thing around?
Right, right right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
You know when I'm on the road, chris, we often
basically communicate thatthere's a lot of reasons to live
reconciled.
A lot of them are spiritual andthe primary reasons are
spiritual.
Jesus prays for it.
Paul tells us this is who weare and we need to walk in that
(26:26):
calling, according to Ephesians2 and Ephesians 4, we need to
walk in a manner worthy of thatcalling.
And so it's about obedience,it's about evangelism and
missions, because Jesus praysfor it.
He says by this they'll knowthat the father sent me and that
he loved me and he loved, heloved them or love you by your
oneness.
(26:46):
That's how the world will knowthat.
And so we hear, we hear all ofthese examples that we're given,
but one if you, if you, if you,if you're not, say you're not a
Christian, there's, even if youare not a Christian and never
will be a Christian, there'salso a reason for you to walk in
oneness because it is practical.
(27:08):
Flourishing in a community istied to the ability of a
community to actually learn howto get along.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Amen.
That's so well said, brian.
Because, like I said, we don'twant to come from such a
spiritual perspective that we'reup in the clouds.
We're sitting here saying, ifwe've got schools that are
struggling, see back toPhiladelphia.
We had Philadelphia.
Public schools have been workingthrough challenges, right,
while in Neshoba Central thecounty school is just exploding
(27:43):
right, tremendous there, right.
Well then you come here and youhave the private opportunities.
Our son actually goes to thepublic school down at Riverside,
down kind of in Western LineDistrict, so a little south of
town, right.
But when you look at some ofthe real challenges city and
county with schools here you'resaying the practical is how are
(28:06):
we going to raise up a workforce, ok, how are we going to keep
(28:29):
some relationships that aregoing to be good?
So you said it, it's not anovernight deal.
You're not going to turn thisship around right off.
Watch the corn growing out here.
Right now Some seeds have beensown that I would say.
We're also seeing a quickerreturn on our money than you
usually do.
It's almost like we'reharvesting where others have
(28:54):
sown you know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, that's good Chris.
Good Chris, talk to me a littlebit about your experience in
Philadelphia.
Okay, a little bit about yourexperience in Philadelphia, okay
, and and because you spent,obviously, raised there, family
you know were grocers there andand and you played sports,
played ball, triple, triple,triple athlete.
You know baseball, football,basketball, so you got all kinds
(29:17):
of experiences there inPhiladelphia.
Tell me a little bit about theterrain there from your vantage
point as it relates to the storyof race, the story of
reconciliation.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Okay With Nettie.
I got connected with Nettie andI may have shared this with you
.
There was a big event inJackson at the stadium right,
where they brought the statetogether and I don't even
remember how.
Victor Smith was a guy from theJackson area that we got
(29:50):
connected with, my wife and I ona mission trip.
We did some Honduras and thenalso Malawi with him, but I
think he was the one who waslike Chris, you need to come
over to this.
I think that's how it startedand so ended up there kind of
representing the Shoba Countyright, and they're just our
little group that was doing thatcounty thing, and so from that,
(30:13):
I think, nettie, we started tobuild some bridges.
We actually, you know, you havePhiladelphia and Greenville.
There's some similarities.
Both have black mayors right,your city population of
government.
There were some open doors withhim and that I could just kind
(30:45):
of step through a little fasterright.
So you've got Leroy Clemens,who's actually running for mayor
.
He's won on the Democratic sidethis time and running against a
Republican here soon.
But he was an NAACP guy that'sreally been involved in a lot of
the civil rights, the history,a lot of the things there.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
So he and I- the Shovel Youth Coalition as well
Coalition there you go withLeroy.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
You know him, I figured you did.
We actually we did something.
My wife and I started anonprofit called the Mississippi
Combine that we had cranked upthere in Philadelphia.
We were doing some.
It was a house of prayer onTuesday nights, praying kind of
over those seven mountains ofinfluence, just kind of those
targets right.
(31:33):
But we were also praying forthe sick, praying for healing
there.
But we actually had somemeetings there with Leroy.
I think it was actuallysponsored by Kellogg's right.
It was kind of a comingtogether.
So we had done some of that.
And then my wife and I hadplanted a Crossway Community
Church.
Nettie had come in for one ofthose before we left and so we
(31:57):
were doing some of this.
How do we build it?
Let's have the dialogue, havethe conversations.
And I think one of the thingsthat's excited me about you
being here in Greenville overthe last few months, I like the
model that you kind of seecoming forth, that let's do the
(32:17):
dialogue, let's keep that steady, let's keep us keep going
deeper.
Every opportunity, the HolySpirit, let's keep that steady,
let's keep going deeper, Everyopportunity.
The Holy Spirit kind of takesus there.
But as we're doing some work inthe community together.
I believe that's almostaccelerating things.
So we were doing some of thatback in Philadelphia.
(32:38):
We were a part of the alliancethere that was doing like a big
Thanksgiving service and so theraces, we would come together
over at Jerusalem uh templePentecostal church, larger black
Pentecostal church but youmentioned it in our meeting this
past week people would kind ofgo home and say, wow, that was
(32:58):
great, we had Choctaws there, wehad blacks there, we had whites
there.
And then most people would say,well, we'll see you next year.
So we did some of that and Iwould say because you understand
, I'm not being negative right,yeah, absolutely, it was almost
like some walls would startcoming down.
(33:19):
Right, yeah, absolutely, it wasalmost like some walls would
start coming down right, and Godin his time is kind of taking
us into a little bit more, right.
So, our church here inGreenville, wide open right On a
Sunday morning we may have fiveto 10% black right and I
(33:41):
believe folks that are coming inand out, ours has not become
like y'all, brian, 40, 60 or 50,50, right, but I bring that up
to say you know, I believe thewhite church and the black
church, right, we're on time,that the only way we're going to
(34:02):
see some real Mississippichange, I believe that's going
to last.
I mean, I rejoice in some ofthe education changes.
I've seen some of that with thegovernor, also with economic
development, but I believe thatthere's that coming together.
Dutch Sheets is a guy that heactually was in our church there
(34:24):
in Philadelphia at one timebefore we came here, written a
book on intercession andintercessory prayer and he's a
guy that's shared in Floridaabout how there is going to be a
real move of reconciliation inMississippi of all places.
(34:48):
And so I believe we're makingthose steps.
What Mission Mississippi?
What?
Dolphus Nettie now you as y'allhave just kept paving it.
Elphys Nettie, now you as y'allhave just kept paving it.
I believe as we see anoutpouring of the Spirit of God,
I believe you're going to seeharvest and we're going to kind
(35:09):
of move into.
I'm not one of those pie in thesky that, oh, it's just going
to fall in there, but I believe,with what y'all paved the way
for, I believe that's wherewe're headed.
I believe when he released that, it was a word from the Lord
and that's something we'reheaded towards.
So me growing up inPhiladelphia when civil rights
(35:30):
murders took place, right.
But then moving to Greenvillewhere you had the 27 flood, that
.
So I mean I've read throughsome of the history there.
We actually, on Wednesdaymornings, we prayed downtown.
There's a hotel that's part ofwhere that property was, that
used to be the old levy board.
(35:51):
That with the 27 flood, I thinkthe vice president may have
come into this area, but you goback and not just with slavery,
not just with all the things ofplantation life, but when that
flood took place there was amajor change from this area,
(36:13):
racially, right, yeah.
And so I'm just saying God, godhad me in Philly, he has me in
Greenville, and so there's somelittle things he wants me to see
.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yes, yes, chris, you mentioned this ideal of the
coming together the one time ayear, and it's good and it's
healthy, and I have to alwayskind of in some ways, I guess,
regulate myself and my own youknow ambition, so to speak, to
(36:46):
want to see unity and oneness inthe body of Christ.
I want to celebrate thosethings.
I want to say yes and amen.
When we get together, when wehave these deep conversations
and we bring the communitytogether around that, I want to
say yes and amen.
But oftentimes the tension thatI'm faced with is that it feels
(37:07):
like that becomes a challengeto wrestle people away from.
In this sense, we oftentimesconfuse progress with completion
, and so oftentimes what we willdo is there will be a moment, a
signature moment, that wecelebrate.
(37:27):
Hey, look at that, we cametogether, we had breakfast
together, we had lunch together,we had dinner together, we had
a dialogue, and that dialoguewas really rich and we learned
some things about one anotherthat we had never learned
concerning one another, and sothat's great.
And so then, when we come backand we ask the question, have we
arrived?
A lot of times people will say,well, yeah, I mean, I think
we're there.
I mean, you know, because wehad that thing last year,
(37:49):
remember that thing last yearthat we did and it's like no,
don't confuse progress withcompletion.
There's still a tremendousamount of work for us yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And let me ask you this real honest question with
that yeah, do you feel like thatresponse usually comes from the
white side, saying oh, we'vereally come a long way, or would
you say it equally comes fromboth sides?
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, come a long way , or would you say it equally
comes from both sides?
Yeah, based on and this is, youknow, this is not empirical data
, so don't so this is moreanecdotal, this is just my work
across the state.
I would definitely say that Ihear a lot of majority culture
thinking in those terms than Ido minority culture thinking in
those terms, and I think it hasa lot to do with positioning.
(38:42):
So, for example, when you thinkabout minority culture, there's
always not always there'stypically a journey towards
something being seen, recognized, acknowledged, opportunities
being made available.
There's a journey towards it.
There's a reaching, so to speak, right.
(39:03):
And so, because there's areaching, then they sense that
the progress is still on goalright Versus the majority
culture.
They are in position and thereis typically a giving, a sharing
of that position, right, and sothe minority culture is trying
to move towards a position.
(39:23):
The majority culture is inposition and yielding space for
other people to reach thatposition.
And so oftentimes I think again, this is not empirically, this
is just anecdotally.
I think that's why you hearwhat you hear some of the some
of the time, as it relates tominority versus majority culture
.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
That's what I would kind of think.
That's why I was asking it thatway.
And as you're talking throughsome of that, you know I
remember with with Nettie and Iguess there's a little tension
that because when you're saying,ok, we're, we're not there yet,
because when you're saying,okay, we're not there yet we are
(40:14):
making progress.
There's also a tension in howmuch time do we spend diving
deeper in the relationship,having some dinners together,
getting together as families.
But also to your other pointearlier that we're working
together on some communityevents, right?
Yes, yes, there's even got to bethat balance there right.
Yes yes, Because we do want.
I mean, the relationships aregetting better and getting
deeper.
Yes, but to bringtransformation to a community
(40:35):
you've got to be out therecasting that vision too.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, we put it in three boxes, chris.
That's intercession.
A family that prays togetherstays together, and I believe
that's not just simply yournuclear family, but I believe
that's your extended family andyour community families.
So families that pray togetherstay together.
So intercession is at the rootof all essential and significant
movements that we're going tosee in the body of Christ and in
(41:02):
communities that have theiranchors in the church.
But then information, and that'seducation, training, coaching,
equipping people to do to getalong.
We say it all the time that theproblem is not simply that we
don't get along across ethniclines, cultural lines, political
(41:23):
lines.
The problem is we don't getalong and the ethnicities,
cultures and politics just drivethose divisions deeper.
But there's a relationship,there's a relational deficiency
that shapes the divides, and sowe have to work on that
deficiency.
So the information piece isabout working on that deficiency
(41:45):
and building better capacityand fluency as it relates to how
we do relationships.
But then the third piece isintervention intervening into
local churches, intervening intohomes, intervening into
communities, and that includesthe intercession that we've been
doing, the informationcomponent of building new
relationships and building newnetworks.
(42:22):
It includes going deeper inthose relationships, and so all
of that we feel like isessential in reconciliation
movements.
Right, and that's when we talkabout the local movements,
whether it be in Greenville,which, by God's grace, you know
the Lord, is breathing new air,new life.
(42:42):
Yes, sir, New life in the workin Greenville or whether it's
other places that we're working.
It's all about trying to really, really really nail down those
three components of intervention, or intercession, rather
information, and thenintervention, if that makes
sense.
Hey, Chris man, this has been agreat, great podcast.
(43:02):
In fact, we've gone longer thanwe anticipated.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I hadn't even been able to keep up with how long
we've been going.
I knew we were still justgetting in.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, man, absolutely .
So we may have to bring you onsomewhere down the road, for a
second podcast.
Yeah, let me land the plane byasking you this Okay, you're a
second podcast.
Yeah, let me let me land theplane by asking you this Okay,
what, what?
You're a hopeful man.
What is really, really reallybringing you hope in the city of
Greenville, the community ofWashington County?
What's really really really uh,stirring the flames of hope for
(43:33):
you right now?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I tell you that the three or four pieces and this
would kind of, I mentionedsacred space to you, Some whites
and blacks coming together fromtwo separate churches, right.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
That kicked in some momentum.
The ministerial alliance herethat you met, pastor Yates yes,
I think I'm the only white guy.
That's a part of that white guy, that's a part of that.
But there's been a good bridgebuilt with our church with so
many of the men and women inthat alliance, right as we've
(44:07):
done had the tent meeting withMississippi Mass Choir.
We've had two of those events,one down on Broadway at Sacred
Space, one out at the mall.
But with that alliance, some ofthose ministers who've been
faithful, that intercession side, the first time I went to their
meeting they were crying outand praying.
(44:29):
It was like an old blackspiritual song.
And I told them.
I said, folks, what we'reseeing God begin to do, I
believe, is directly connectedto those prayers.
Right, and so now some of thosefolks who were in the
background praying.
They're coming on out into theforefront, whether it's feeding
(44:52):
down at Sacred Space as analliance, whether it's helping
with these community events orI'd shared with you.
We get to host their BibleInstitute out here on campus,
one of our cottages on a Mondaynight On that 100 acres.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Out here on that 100 acres.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
They've been blessed, we've been blessed.
They have somewhere from 20 to30 that they're educating the
church, raising the church up togo get it done.
So those pieces.
But I would also say here nowthis is compared to Philadelphia
, philadelphia being a redcounty, over there in Neshoba
(45:35):
being blue, over here inGreenville, in Washington County
, the schools and the governmenthere, I believe, because of
some of the black church rootsis what I would say they seem to
be more open to the church,bringing the influence right.
(45:56):
You know where the whitecommunities have kind of been.
Well, there's that church andstate separation.
There's all that discussion,right, you know where the white
communities have kind of been.
Well, there's that church andstate separation.
There's all that discussionright Over here.
It's been like a green light tosay if y'all as the church want
to bring some money, bring some.
So there's an open door.
There's some adversaries, right, like the word says.
(46:18):
So those are the things.
There's almost like a favor onsome church leaders, white and
black, to say because of that,let's go back, because of the
hope that had been lost.
They're saying, maybe thechurch has the answer, brian,
how about that?
And so they're.
Really those would be thepieces right there and then I
(46:42):
throw in the sportsplex.
I think, as we watch that downthe road, it's going to be a
neat piece of bringing peopletogether out there in a good,
healthy spot, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, yeah, Chris man , I am so incredibly grateful
that God has placed you and yourfamily in Greenville.
You are an absolute light tothat community and a connector
and network in ways.
That's bringing a lot of piecesto the puzzle together in one
room to navigate through thechallenges with hope and with
(47:18):
optimism and with light man.
And so we are incrediblygrateful for the work that the
Lord is doing through you.
And how can people keep up withChris Vow and Emanuel Baptist
Church?
You got websites, social media.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, you can check us out on Facebook.
We do a good bit there with ourEmanuel Baptist Greenville.
We actually just got on thelocal radio on Sunday mornings.
We were kind of excited aboutthat little piece, and we've got
a brand new website that'scoming up here in about the next
week, right that we've beenworking on some things.
So, emmanuel Baptist Greenville, god's doing some good things
(47:55):
in the Delta, you know.
One last piece let me throw inthere.
We're a part of the Mid-DeltaBaptist Association and up at
Parchman, about an hour from us,god's doing a lot on the campus
at Parchman.
There's a new chapel that'sbeen built with some private
funds.
(48:15):
There's the New OrleansSeminary that's equipping some
of these guys in there, right.
So I just say, man, there'sjust, there's a new thing that
God's doing, and so I guess weall need to choose to either
speak life or keep, or keepcursing it all with death,
because there's some stuff, goodthings, coming, amen.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Amen.
Well, I appreciate youcontinuing to speak, life,
brother, and I will join you indoing the same.
Join you in doing the same.
It's been a pleasure to have myfriend and brother, Chris
Vowell, on this podcast episodeof Living Reconciled.
If you need to keep up withwhat's going on with Living
Reconciled, you can do so bygoing to any podcast app, any
podcast site Spotify, Amazon,Google, any of those sites.
(49:03):
Click on new subscription ornew podcast type in Living
Reconciled in the search engineand you will more than likely
find us Living Reconciled byMission Mississippi.
Again, it's been a pleasure anda privilege to host my friend,
Chris Vowell on this episode andwe look forward to having our
co-host, Nettie Winters andAustin Hoyle back with us.
(49:25):
But until then, this is BrianCrawford signing off saying God
bless.
Thank you, sir.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(49:47):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Thank you.
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