July 9, 2025 • 48 mins
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What does it mean to live at the intersection of cultures, churches, and callings? Pastor Chip Luter—son of the first African American president of the Southern Baptist Convention—shares his powerful story of navigating identity, legacy, and reconciliation across racial and denominational lines. From being “Chip” at church and “Fred” at school to becoming a bridge-builder in ministry, Chip offers candid insights on growing up between worlds and how those experiences shaped his gospel-centered approach to unity. He challenges listeners to pursue reconciliation not just during moments of crisis, but through consistent, everyday relationships rooted in Christ. Whether you're navigating cultural complexity or seeking practical tools for unity, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for lasting reconciliation.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation and celebrate what it means to live reconciled through Christ.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled, Episode 80, NettieWinters.
(00:33):
Can you believe that?
Episode 80.
I'm your host, Brian Crawford,and I'm with my friend, Nettie.
Nettie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
sir, I'm doing fine man.
It's amazing.
When Austin's not on here, I'mjust your friend.
When he's on, you're incrediblefriends.
So what happens to?
Incredible?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, austin brings out the best in you, man, so we
can take it up a notch whenAustin's on with us, man.
But since we got a, reallyreally good guest, I'll give you
incredible, all right, no, no,no, since we got a really good
guest, I'll go ahead and callyou incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, you probably go ahead and do some of the
incredible.
So you know, ok, as long as I'mhere, man, I'm happy I may, I
may.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I may.
Anyway, we got we got someincredible sponsors of this
podcast.
I want to give a shout out tothem.
Folks like Nissan and StDominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy
Regions Foundation, MississippiCollege, Anderson, United
Methodist, Grace Temple Church,Mississippi State, Real
Christian Foundation, BrownMissionary Baptist Church,
Christian Life Church, goodfriends like Ms Doris Powell,
(01:40):
Robert Ward and Winters.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you do thatwe're able to do what we do,
and today what we're doing istalking to another incredible
friend of mine, Chip Luter.
He is a native of New Orleans,Louisiana.
He is the senior associatepastor at Franklin Avenue
(02:00):
Baptist Church, under theleadership of his father, Dr
Fred Luter, and he is also anincredible husband and father of
a wife by the name of Jasmineand three children Drew Zoe,
Grace and Gabrielle Sierra.
Chip is a dynamic preacher,he's a dynamic thinker, he's an
(02:27):
advocate in the work ofreconciliation, and we couldn't
be more excited and happy tohear more of his story.
So, Chip man, welcome to LivingReconciled man.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, brother.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, with an introduction like that, it is an
honor to be here, man.
I'm wondering who that guy wasyou were talking about.
That's nice I got to live up tothat bio.
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, with a name like Luter man.
It's in your blood.
Yes sir, yes sir.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I got one or two right right.
I mean for the firstintroduction of Nettie.
Nettie's looking for more.
The second introduction forChip Chip's.
Like man, you gave me so much Idon't even know what to do with
it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I got one out of two Good deal, man.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Hey, chip, why don't you start by telling us a little
bit, brother, about your storyof faith, man, how you came to
faith in Christ and how youended up in the vocation of
pastoral ministry?
Yeah, talk to us a little bitabout that pastoral ministry.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, talk to us a little bit about that.
Sure, brother, it's been a joyonce again to be with you.
I mean, I came to faith toChrist at a young age.
Obviously, growing up in church, my dad's been a pastor.
Matter of fact, this year mydad had been the pastor of
Franklin Avenue Baptist Churchhere in New Orleans for 39 years
Wow, 39.
But at the age of about six, no, really, no, seven years old.
(03:46):
Uh, I made the, uh, the verbalaffirmation of faith when, when
the salvation of the gospel wasexplained to me about.
This is as elementary as thisis heaven and this is hell, and
if you want to be in heaven, yougot to know Jesus.
That Jesus is where, if you getto know Jesus, you'll be in
(04:06):
heaven, and without Jesus ishell.
And it was just even just thatsimplicity of the gospel, of
being, of knowing to be arelationship with Jesus and
where that is in eternity, andthen a relationship without
Jesus, where that is.
That was just really at thatsimple, simple gospel age of
seven years old.
But then, after knowing the Lord, really, I would really say
(04:30):
that about 12, 13 years old wasthe time in my faith really just
took off, because I was met atthat stage of life where, yeah,
I say I want to be with Jesusand I want to walk with Jesus.
But then I found myself livingand acting a different way
amongst my friends at school andone of the things about me,
because of my name, mygovernment name given to me is
(04:52):
Fred Luter III, but my nicknameis Chip, as in Chip off the old
block and I found myself, evenjust in middle school, found
myself that at home and atchurch I was Chip, but at school
I was fred, and fred and chipdidn't act the same and I found
(05:12):
myself at a young age, justfeeling convicted and so, uh,
what I I really uh believe was a.
It was a youth revival.
We had a special service atchurch one day and actually, uh,
one one night, and I came outof the choir stand to come down
the aisle because I knew Iwasn't fully committed to the
(05:33):
Lord like I needed to be.
So my calling was that I gotenamored.
One Wednesday night at Biblestudy I left my class to go to
the bathroom.
When I walked by this classroom, A couple of deaconesses were
teaching the five to seven yearold kids class, teaching them
(05:54):
the Bible.
Now, here's the thing I justtold them I will just come sit
in.
What they did not know is Ireally was getting bored in my
class.
I was in, so I was reallytrying to escape.
I did the old pastor kid thingwhere I need to go to the
bathroom, but I never returned.
But the Lord set me up becauseI sat in that class and, man,
I'm watching these ladies teachthese kids the Bible and I'm
(06:17):
like man, I kind of I want totry this out.
And they and, uh, uh, lo andbehold, long story short, they,
let me try it out.
And I enjoyed it so much thatit became something I wanted to
do more.
And, man, I got you know.
God gave me opportunity to betrained as a Sunday school
teacher at the church, and so inmy teenage years I was being
mentored and being trained to bea teacher in Sunday school.
(06:39):
Of course, I only taught theyoung kids and then, but then
that ended up leading to acalling to preach the, preach
the gospel, at about at 16, 16years old, I was at a.
I've had a school which is partof my story is I was at a
Catholic, a predominant whiteCatholic school called Brother
Martin High School, and beingraised Baptist.
(07:02):
That's the part about my storythat's interesting too.
Even though I'm raised in theblack Baptist Church, my
elementary and middle schoolwere predominantly white
Lutheran school.
My high school was apredominantly white Catholic
school, and then I ended upgoing to college at a
predominantly white Baptistcollege, and so I've had this
interdenominational mixture ofmy life.
(07:22):
But it was at Brother Martinwhen I was asked to give a
reflection at the GrandparentsDay Mass.
And here I am thinking whywould they ask me to do this at
a Grandparents Day Mass?
Because I'm growing up Baptist?
You know, there's other whiteCatholic boys here.
You could ask them why ask theblack Baptist kid to come be
part of this?
But here's how God showed mewhat he was doing.
(07:44):
I spoke at that mass and Iliterally did it just because I
was asked and I didn't think, no, none big will be come out of
it.
But man, it was an elderlywhite Catholic lady that came up
to my mom after that and saidma'am, is this your son?
I said yes, ma'am.
Um, my mom said yes, ma'am,this is my son.
She said I just want to let youknow.
If there were more young men inthis world like your son, this
world would be a better place.
And, Brian Natty, I'm tellingyou it crushed me because here
(08:09):
I'm looking at my age, my race,my denomination as the reason
why I wouldn't have impact atthis school, that my only impact
would be at my local uh,predominant black Baptist church
.
But as I spent that day, itwasn't even a sermon, it was
just a reflection, it wasn'teven a sermon.
I just shared on my heart whatGod has taught me about
(08:30):
grandparents and whatgrandparents in my life.
And from that day I said a veryfoolish thing to say, because
it really and I tell everybodywhen I tell my testimony, don't
ever say this to God.
But I said, okay, lord,apparently you want this to
happen, cause I don't.
I was like man, I I've seen mydad, he does this pastor who's
(08:53):
got time to write sermons everySunday, be nice to everybody and
smile everybody.
I don't want to do thatpreacher stuff, I'll just be a
good, faithful church member.
But I said, lord, apparentlyyou're doing something, cause I
don't want this, but you want meto do it.
So, lord, I'm going to beobedient to you, but if this
don't work out, it's your fault.
And now I'm 40 and stillpreaching the gospel.
(09:21):
So, yeah, man, that's a littlebit about my story.
Now, what part of that?
You don't, you don't ever wantto tell God.
I said don't ever tell it,don't tell God, hey God if this
doesn't work, out it's yourfault.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Well, you know, in reality it is right.
It's his idea that you do it.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It is, which, I guess , is why he assures that it will
not fail if it's his idea right.
There you go, there you go Onceagain.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I'm 16 years old.
That's how you pray when you're16.
You talk to God.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like you got no prayer.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right, you mentioned it already from the outset.
you know that you're followingin the the the the shoes in many
ways, you know, or, or thatthere's been a a trail that's
been blazed for you, uh, with,with a father in ministry.
Um, your father just so happensto be, uh, the first African
American man who was electedpresident of the Southern
(10:20):
Baptist convention, and so youtalked about this ideal of being
Chip in one circle and thenbeing Fred when you go to school
and places like that, and whatother ways do you feel like
having that trail blazed in sucha way?
(10:42):
How has, how has that shapedyou, I guess?
I guess in ways that are goodand healthy and in, maybe, some
lessons learned in terms of waysthat it wasn't healthy.
How has that shaped you?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
yeah, I have a very um, what's unique about, uh, how
I respond to questions likethat, because I've had it in
many different forms, whetherquestioned as well as you
question it as well as questionslike, well, what is it like in
your dad's shadow, and all that.
But I really what I tell peopleis it's interesting.
What's fascinating for me is tosay it was once I got, once I
(11:20):
owned my faith as my own, and itwasn't just the faith from my
parents, because we always havethat place where, when you
accept Christ at a young age,still in a large part you've
received that faith from what'sbeen passed down to you and so
you know the faith.
But then there's a transitionwhere you own your faith and I
(11:50):
would say for me, once I startedto really own my faith, where I
was a personal walk with theLord for myself, that that
church was not just why I haveto be there because my dad's the
pastor.
Oh, I have to do this becauseyou know, once I really owned it
as no man, just that I saw theword of God open up and even
though, as I started to walk inmy calling more, I noticed to
appreciate what's beentrailblazed, that God's used my
dad to open so many doors.
But the truth of the matter is,even if my dad opens the door,
I still got to walk through it,and so I began to really see
(12:13):
myself as an extension of my momand dad's ministry, the more I
really owned my faith, to see itas, yeah, this is what what God
is doing through them, and nowhe's doing it through me.
But before I really owned myfaith, I it as, yeah, this is
what what God is doing throughthem, and now he's doing it
through me.
But before I really owned myfaith, oh, man, I it was a, it
was a, it was a battle sometimes, because it felt like, well,
(12:33):
I'm Fred and Elizabeth's son, Ican't do anything, you know, I
I'll still.
I'll share this very quickstory.
It's just that, uh, even, uh,at school, man, I had some
friends where I was part of theNGROTC group and we had a drill
meet one day, and after andafter the drill meet was done,
uh, they said, hey, man, we'regoing all out to eat, uh,
afterwards.
And so my parents were thereand I and uh, they said, hey,
(12:56):
fred, you want to come?
And I said, oh, yeah, man, comeon, let's?
Um, yeah, man, I'd love to go.
And then I told my parents hey,they're all going out to eat
lunch.
They're all going out to eat.
Can I go with them?
I said where are y'all going?
And so I asked my friends wherethey're going.
I cannot make this up.
My friends were going toHooters.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So guess what Fred Elizabeth said you are not going
to Hooters but.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I'm not going to go home.
Yeah, they don't care whatpeople say about the wings, I
just wasn't going because soobviously moments like that as a
kid you're thinking, man, Ican't go.
You know my friends are going,I want to go.
But obviously it took time andI think one of the great things
(13:43):
that God, the best thing God,could have done, is my first
work in vocation ministry was inyouth ministry and I think that
was the best thing the Lordcould have done because it was a
different sphere of ministrythan my dad.
My dad's ministry was more toadults and especially from the
convention level of what he wasdoing there.
But youth ministry, you know,teenagers didn't know who Fred
(14:05):
Luter Jr was.
They didn't know about that.
Southern Baptist Conventionpresident.
Matter of fact, still to thisday, if I end up going to preach
somewhere for sometimes I stillget invited for certain youth
events it'll be the leaders orthe chaperones that'll be.
You know what?
I heard your dad preach, youknow, but these teenagers have
no clue who my dad is.
And so the blessing of that wasthat it was just this balance
(14:27):
of that.
Hey, you know, I can't justwalk into a room and like, oh,
your friend Luther's son, thatwould only happen with the
adults and those who knew fromthe convention.
But most of the rooms.
If I walked in ministering toteenagers, hey, man, I had to, I
had to earn, I had to earn theinfluence in the room and
connect with the people thatwere there.
So, so, so, yes, that's what Iwould really say, man.
For me, man, my dad's opened alot of good doors for me.
(14:49):
But for me, I got better withbeing knowing whose son I am
(15:18):
when I really started to own myfaith and knowing, ultimately,
I'm God's son.
So when I, as I, got myidentity in Christ and even my
identity as what God has placedme to do in ministry, that's
when I'd be able to, couldembrace a lot more, and that I
don't get disappointed if peoplesay, oh, you're Fred's son or I
.
You know it's like not had.
I've not tried to utilize mydad's name to get me into places
, but because I started my areain youth ministry and uh and man
, you guys know, with teenagersthat's a whole different level
of ministry than ministering toa doctor.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Absolutely yeah, talk , talk to us a little bit, chip.
I'm sorry, go ahead, natty,jump in.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Talk to us a little bit, Chip, I'm sorry, go ahead,
Natty, jump in.
I can just say that teenageministry is brutal and it's a
bully.
You know in terms of how theyoperate.
But, Fred, I wanted to.
You talked about your diversity, of being at the Catholic
Church, Lutheran Church, andthen you go home, you got to be
black and Baptist and all thatstuff.
(16:04):
How is that working out inthose spaces and outside of
those spaces and those spacescombined?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I'll tell you what I did not know, because I
can look back on it now and nowsee what the Lord was doing.
Man, I've been so blessed andhonored to be able to preach in
so many different environments,matter of fact, even at some.
At one point last year, I thinkit was last year at one point
last year I had, you know, I waspreaching at my church on on
(16:33):
one day and then, afterpreaching at church, of course
we're still a predominantlyAfrican-American church.
So I'm preaching on a Sundaymorning at Franklin Baptist
Church.
Then a couple of days later I'mgetting on a plane, really a
day later, because I waspreaching on Tuesday.
So I got on a plane.
Monday I'm flying to Riverside,california, to preach chapel at
California Baptist University.
Wow, and so you just look atthe contrast of those crowds, of
(16:56):
a predominant African-AmericanSunday morning experience and
then a predominant white collegewhich still has a good mixture,
because they're not just whitestudents there, there's
African-American, there'sinternational students there,
and so not only was it just adifference in demographic by way
of race, but it was also by age.
(17:18):
And then, at the same time,I've had opportunities to be
part of certaininterdenominational things and
I've been in meetings, even at alocal.
We have a local organization inNew Orleans called Together New
Orleans that does a lot of worktogether and there are
different universalist churchesand Presbyterian churches, and
(17:39):
so what I think has been thebest thing that's helped me is
that I've had a ministry where Ican walk in any room and feel
comfortable.
I never have to worry about, Inever immediately worry about
how are people just taking me inand looking at me.
I go engage them.
(18:00):
And I think because I've hadthat kind of experience, because
even the way I ended up at aCatholic school was that I had a
white friend named George whowas my good friend in middle
school at a Lutheran schoolcalled St Paul Lutheran no, I'm
sorry, that was Prince of Peace,lutheran, yeah, but at Prince
of Peace, when I was at Princeof Peace with George, I think
around our seventh grade year,his brother was a drum major, a
(18:24):
band director, band leader atBrother Martin High School he
was.
He was the.
He wasn't a band director, butyou know when, when you're a
student, drum is a drum major.
He wasn't the band director,but you know, when you're a
student he's a drum major.
I forgot, but because he ledthe band he could get us free
tickets to the football games.
So I would go with George toBrother Martin's football games
(18:46):
as a middle schooler.
So of course when I'm lookingat high schools to go to, I
check out brother Martin, causeI was already going to the
football games in George man,that was my guy.
I I would have never known whatthe band queen was If not for my
friend George, like, like whenI had to be get exposed to other
types of music outside of my myyou know, cause I grew up
(19:07):
Baptist man, I'm used to man.
I never forgot.
I hung out with George one dayand he put on Bohemian Rhapsody.
I had never heard this song andit was great and so.
(19:27):
But of course, because I was myfriend and I checked out of
school and I loved it, I wentthere and so I had this, these
different worlds between beingand been with a predominant
white population of studentsduring my school days but then
being at my Black Baptist church.
And I think what it's done forme to this day is how I
communicate and how I engage anyaudience, because I've formed
(19:47):
significant relationships withpeople who are outside of my
race, relationships with peoplewho are outside of my race and
also it's helped me not togeneralize, because I think
that's a big thing and when itcomes to racial reconciliation,
it's hard to reconcile withother races when there's a
generalization of another race.
So I can't generalize aboutwhite people, because I've got
(20:10):
significant relationships ofpeople who are white.
I can't generalize aboutHispanic community or Latino
Latino community, because I'vegot significant relationships
there and and it even becamemore so when I got to serve in
Tampa and we served in a in acommunity that had refugee
families there, and so there wasa refugee family from Congo,
(20:32):
africa, where we had tocommunicate with the five
yearold because she was the onethat spoke the best English.
Her siblings spoke Haitian andFrench, creole.
So I can't generalize aboutpockets of people, about
demographics of people andethnicities, because I had
significant relationships.
So I'd say that's the biggestimpact about being at these
(20:54):
different schools.
And then Dallas Baptist is, eventhough they're predominantly
white, they had over 300international students, and so
I'm meeting Asian students thatare Chinese, that are Japanese,
which having to learn thatdifference as well.
So I'm so glad God got me outof that ignorance.
And then also meeting Indianpeople from Indian descent.
(21:19):
I will say my girl, caroline,the first time she made curry I
just thought, I thought I wasgoing to be with Jesus.
But she had to teach me you gotto have levels to this chip,
you got to take, you got to paceyourself.
But I just say that to share,to show that there's not a room
(21:40):
I can go in and feel like Ican't engage this room, because
God has given me so manyopportunities in my upbringing,
through education and ministryexperiences, to be in different
environments, to just be alearner, and once I learn what's
going on and then I bring myfull self to the table as well.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, you know, I was saying in reading your bio and
background, just geographiclocations, just passing through
those areas from New Orleans toCalifornia to Florida, it's like
okay, that's three differentcountries there.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, it is yeah, yeah, I lived seven years in
Dallas.
If I look at my Dallas BaptistUniversity years, I graduated oh
, I didn't hear.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I forgot about Texas man.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's a country where you just live Absolutely.
I was in Dallas from 2002 to2009 because I graduated in 2006
from Dallas Baptist.
But then a great church,concord Church, which actually
just celebrated their 50 years,they hired me as their senior
high youth pastor.
So I was on that for aboutthree, three years.
(22:49):
So from my college years toworking at Concord was about
seven years total.
And then, after being inFranklin Avenue for some years
as a youth pastor here, then Igot to serve at Idlewild Baptist
Church, which is actually apredominant white Southern
Baptist church, but I pastored acampus of that church in the
inner city of Tampa calledSulphur Springs.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That was Texas, New Orleans, Tampa.
Did you have a relationshipwith EK?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, listen, ek Bailey, ek Bailey.
I would not have been at DallasBaptist university if not for
EK Bailey.
Uh, when I was looking at whenI got serious about my calling
and where I wanted to go toschool, um, well, actually, it
was actually.
No, it was right before I even.
Uh, cause, here's how I triedto.
I tried to trick Jesus.
You know how we try to trickthe Lord All right, lord, don't
(23:39):
put weed there.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Watch that weed.
Watch that weed.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, let me talk about me, me, me, y'all were
better than me.
So no, but yeah, at one pointin my ministry, well, one point
in my teenage years, I said, ok,well, maybe the Lord, maybe
it's not, maybe it's not pastor,but because I was teaching a
lot as a teenager and doingSunday school and Bible study,
people were coming to me forspiritual counsel.
So I said, ah, that's Lord, hewants me to be a Christian
(24:06):
counselor, he doesn't want me tobe a preacher.
And I'll never forget, one ofthe schools that had a great
Christian counseling program wasactually a school Dallas
Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And when.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
EK Bailey came yeah, dts.
And when EK Bailey came to thetime to do revival for my dad at
Franklin, I told him.
I said you know, I've actuallybeen looking at some programs at
a school out there called DTS.
And he said, yes, but it's amaster's level school and I need
a place to do my undergrad.
So if I came to Dallas, wherewould you say I'd go?
He said, have you ever heard ofDBU?
I said no, I've never.
(24:36):
And you know, ek Bailey, youknow that that I can't, I can't
do it justice.
But you know, he was like DBU.
And and I said what's that?
He said Dallas, baptist year.
And DBU was in the exhibit hall, wow.
And I met Dennis Lynam, who'shome with the Lord now, just
(24:57):
said, you know, just had hispassing within the last year or
two.
And when I wrote down FredLuder III on the interest card,
well, you know what happenednext?
Oh yeah, oh yeah and so yeah.
But man, even when, yeah, andso so yeah.
But then the eyes were open.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, because my dad actually preached the convention
sermon that year and so it wasa lot of exploring.
So so, yeah, but man, but thatwas that short story.
Long story short was that Ifell out the car.
They called.
I went and visited the campus,loved it, and Dallas was an easy
sell.
Just love that city.
All the major sports are there.
I grew up on Tony Evans' voicelistening on the radio, so I
(25:38):
thought I'd easily be a memberof OCBF.
But then when I got to Dallas,ek Bailey touched one of his
ministers to get me right tochurch.
And then, once I got to Concord, I really saw the opportunity
to serve there and especiallythe way they groom preachers,
man, I mean, it is a preachinglaboratory.
But the most important thingwas in their youth ministry.
(26:00):
I talked to Pastor Brown, whowas a youth pastor there, and he
said he said, chip, I don'thave a lot of young college men
in my ministry.
Praise God for the ladies thatGod sent out to our ministry.
But our young men need some men, not just in their forties and
fifties and sixties to look upto, but I have men in their
twenties and thirties.
I just don't have around themand it was just like an instant
(26:21):
thing, that that tugged on myheart to say well, you know what
?
This is the place I need to be.
I know I'll be under the wordof God, I know I'll get my
training, but that the day of mycollege graduation I'm sorry,
two days before my collegegraduation that Concord would
offer me a job to be a seniorhigh pastor at 22 years old, at
(26:43):
the.
Concord Church and so and PastorCarter was pastoring by then,
so I got to be there for some ofhis early years of transition,
and which is a blessing to watchthat, knowing that I've got
some years of transition coming,which is a blessing to watch
that, knowing that I've got someyears of transition coming
ahead for me and so I got a lotof lessons I got to watch him do
as he transitioned into thatrole, following a legend like EK
(27:03):
Bailey.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I was about to say that's a good segue to talk
about when you're talking aboutwatching, like you said, and
following behind.
You know, these dynamic andlarger than life personalities
like EK Bailey, and you know,and of course, you know Dr Luter
(27:26):
Jr, for yourself and yourfather and and just kind of
preparing the way your fatherand and just kind of preparing
the way let's pivot a little bitinto reconciliation, because
you, you know, your father'sbeen at the forefront of this.
He, he's, he's, he's been, youknow, knocking down doors that
were once closed, uh, to toAfrican-American, uh, pastors,
(27:48):
um, he's been, he's been on thefront lines as it relates to
bridging gaps and creating, youknow, exhibiting the
reconciliation that we have inChrist and in real ways in
different places.
What have you learned and whathave you gleaned about the work
(28:11):
of reconciliation as you've beenin these places, because he
didn't go alone when you werewith him alone in these places,
and even you kicked down some ofyour own doors.
What have you learned aboutthis work, particularly in our
country, but even if you want togo more, more specifically into
the context of your community,what have you learned about this
(28:34):
work?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind
is checking your own heart andthe desire to want it.
The thing about my dad and mymom I watched them do so much is
, even though, leading apredominantly black church in a
predominantly black community,because part of Franklin
(28:56):
Avenue's history is that it wasa white church for many years
when it first started, but itwas white flight that changed
the look of the neighborhood andthe community and then it
became a predominantly blackchurch later on.
But I think their heart forministry and their heart for the
gospel is the first thing, andthe gospel wasn't just going to
be limited to only even thoughthe ministry was pronounced
(29:19):
black when they got into theSouthern Baptist Convention,
because that's him as pastor,and Franklin Avenue was a
Southern Baptist church.
And so that's the part that alot of people miss about his
(29:39):
journey, that some people thinkthat, oh, he just chose to be
Southern Baptist.
No, he didn't.
He was interviewed to be apastor of a church and this
church so happened to beSouthern Baptist.
But then, when he had a chanceto, when they had a chance to be
autonomous, after, you know,growing, and they got a place
where the financial good wherenow they didn't no longer have
to be a mission church underanother church, they could be
(30:01):
autonomous.
The members asked and now thatwe're autonomous, can we leave
the Southern Baptist Convention?
And he was like, well, whywould we ever leave?
And that's when he started.
Members started talking aboutthe history and and some of the
some of the conventions pass andand he said well, you know,
since we've, since I've beenhere, the convention been
(30:21):
nothing but good to us.
They've been supporting usfinancially, they've done
training and Sunday school.
We talk about the seminary andall that.
Like he said, why would?
He said, but here's the thing,said we all have a past, I have
a past, you have a past, and ifwe all made decisions just
because of what was done in ourpast, none of us would be here.
He said you would have.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken,he would even say you would
(30:44):
have elected me your pastor ifyou took just my past.
And uh, but he said.
He said but, uh, let's do this,let's stay in this convention,
because maybe, maybe, the Lord,we could be a better impact to
this convention, being a part ofit than being outside of it.
And I really believe that startsin the heart.
And I think the start of racialreconciliation has got to be
(31:07):
what is the gospel impressing?
What is the Lord and the gospelimpressing upon your heart in
this work?
And if that's, and if that'syour start, then everything will
happen.
Because if the start ispolitical, or if it's political
gain, if it's ministry exposure,if it's, or if it's just, if
(31:27):
it's compromising to the culture, like there's all these other
motives, that can happen.
But it's got to start with thegospel and I think that's the
part for my mom and dad that Iwatched him for so many years is
that you have a pastor of achurch and his wife.
That models reconciliation,because even in their
relationships they did not limittheir relationships to just
(31:51):
African-Americans.
The other part I would say isbe OK with times that are
uncomfortable.
I think the challenge of racialreconciliation in our country,
especially today, and especiallyin our political division, we
(32:12):
want the conversations to be socomforting and convenient and
just easy, and it's not going tobe easy, um, and so you have to
be comfortable with beinguncomfortable at times, uh.
The other part I would saywatching my parents and in my
journey, um, uh, knowing whereyou're ignorant, it's okay that
you don't know and you have tolearn.
(32:34):
I've watched my dad have tohave conversations and ask
questions because he literallyjust did not know, and I think
one of the challenges in racialreconciliation is sometimes
especially for those of us thathave had a lot of academic study
sometimes we can be so wellread about racial reconciliation
(32:57):
but we've not really done thework of racial reconciliation
and that's black and white.
Whether you're anAfrican-American who's read
certain literature about whitepeople or about what's happened
in the past, or if you're whiteand you've read material that
more speak from the whiteperspective, like the truth is,
(33:18):
or if you've watched yourfavorite news person or podcast
person, like all that'sinformation.
But when you sit face to facewith somebody, that's the real
work and that, for me, is thepart that I believe is just a
crucial thing that if I have theopportunity to have
(33:40):
relationships or haveconversations with people that
are not like me that whetherthat's Black, white, hispanic
Asian, you name it Indian, allin between, white, hispanic
Asian, you name it Indian, allin between I want to sit down
and if I'm curious, I'd love toask.
(34:06):
And if it's a question where Imay offend, well, maybe I don't
ask that question first, maybe Istart with the relationship so
I know where we stand, because Ican't meet somebody who's not
like me the first day and ask aquestion where it feels like I'm
going to offend them.
And the only example I'll giveof that is I had a white brother
, man, good brother, older thanme, and during the pandemic,
during these this 2020 season,where we were not only divided
(34:29):
over masks and everything else,but we had George Floyd and
Ahmed Arbery in these cases, manthat just you could not ignore,
and man, he asked me somequestions one day.
We met for breakfast because hewas really troubling, because
this is a guy, just intransparency.
I'm not going to say I'm notsaying this to be stereotypical
of a group, but I'm saying thisis where he was.
(34:49):
He's a reform guy and so in hissystem of belief and system of
how he looks at the scripturesthen that he couldn't go with
these things of systemic racismand and discrimination because
in his eyes, as he told me, hewas very blunt.
If this was our firstconversation and we'd never
(35:20):
talked before, it would havebeen rough, bro, it would have
been rough, but he's a brotherthat I know and I love he was an
accountability partner and man.
We just walked through a seasonand it was a powerful time.
So those are the kind of quickthings I would share.
Man, check your own heart, beopen to be you know.
You know, educate yourignorance where you can and
(35:41):
don't be so well, read aboutsomething and sit in front of
somebody and have the toughconversations, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, that's good brother, that's good man and I
promise I'm not going to rat youout to Elbert McGowan and some
of our reformed brothers outthere.
Elbert, we love you, brother,we love you.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I love it, man, by the way, and I'm glad you
brought that up.
Here's the thing.
You know.
He's the only guy in my lifethat I've actually had some
conversations.
Yeah, we've actually sat down.
We've talked through Calvinismand we've talked through about
why there are the samescriptures I've been reading,
he's been reading, but theconclusion he comes to, and the
conclusion I come to that Christdied for all.
(36:26):
And it's been greatconversation.
Now doesn't mean the fact thathe changed me or I changed him.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Man, that's.
You know, that's one of thebiggest things I feel like, not
just in reconciliation work orracial healing work, but just in
crossing divisions in generalis that we always feel not
always.
We oftentimes feel that we haveto have complete agreement in
(36:55):
order to build unity and inorder to build something
harmonious.
And the reality is that, man,I'm living in a house with a
beautiful woman that I've beenliving with for 20 plus years.
Now, come on 22 years.
We're celebrating in November.
In those 22 years, 22 of them,we've disagreed 22 of those
(37:21):
years we've disagreed.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's good man.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
We're building deeper and deeper unity and oneness
and intimacy, and I oftentimesfeel like if that can be done in
the closest of relationshipsthat we have, how much more so,
you know, when we start talkingabout these other relationships.
Yes, we can have some points ofcontention and disagreement,
but that doesn't have tonecessarily mean the end of
(37:46):
harmony, the end of oneness andunity for us.
We and we can work through that, and I think that's what
Christian maturation should take, should take us to.
And you've said some incrediblehelp, incredibly helpful things
about humility, Cause I, that'swhat I heard and the ability to
say Humility because that'swhat I heard in the ability to
say, listen, I don't know what Idon't know.
(38:06):
And there are times in which,even when I think I know, I
don't know.
And so that requires a lot ofhumility to come into a
conversation, to be open mindedin that regard.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Because it takes for you one of the things I love to
say a lot in certain times, andI even want to talk about
humility.
You know what brings all of usat the most base level humility.
At some point, at some point inour lives, we all had to be
trained to use the bathroom in atoilet.
Yes, and notice what I saidthere, we had to be trained to
(38:39):
use it, but that happens in atoilet.
Yeah, like, at some point inour lives, we like, and so it,
it, it should bring to like the.
Yes, you get older, you learn alot, you experience more.
You, you, you'd have beenexposed to a lot, but don't ever
get to the place where you'vesuch so much arrived.
And and you know, and I thinkyou know, just like, we have a
(39:01):
heavenly father who's infinite,and and because, and there's
never enough that we, he willnever be fully known by us,
because we are limited people,we are finite.
We are finite trying tounderstand the infinite.
And I, and that's why I justthink you got to come say, and
going back to I said earlierabout, do we care, as long as we
make sure we don't generalize,because I told my church when I.
(39:21):
I was in Tampa during thepandemic and doing those racial
attention.
I said, if you are having moreconversations about racial
reconciliation, if you're aboutrace and this division, if
you're having more time, ifyou're doing, if you're watching
Fox News, cnn, msnbc or any ofthese news platforms or blogs
whatever, if you're spendingmore time with these figures and
(39:45):
you spend no time with thepeople, you got right here in
the church, because in ourchurch we had black and white
and a mixture in between.
Like I don't know that face onthe news.
I know their voice but I don'tknow them personally.
If you've ever wondered aboutwhat a black person feels about
police brutality, you got peopleright here in your church.
If, if you ever want to knowwhat a white person feels about
(40:08):
when they, when they, when theyhear words like defund the
police and all that, like, ok,you got somebody right here.
Whatever question is on yourmind, don't take the, the, the,
the narrative Right On news andyou have to sit in front of
somebody and you know whetheryour contention is with Black
(40:31):
Lives Matter, with theDemocratic Party, with the
Republican Party, with you know,not, not all cops are bad cops
and not like all these phrasesand things that are said that
can rile us up.
It's a hey man when it comes tothe gospel.
The gospel cuts through allthat, because if I have a
brother and sister in Christ whomay have a perspective that I'm
(40:54):
missing, I want to get to knowit.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah yeah, chip man, you know this has been so good
bro.
Right, yeah, yeah, chip man,you know this has been so good
bro.
I'm even even, as you mentionedthat.
I'm thinking about theconfusion that we often,
oftentimes have, where weconfuse having some knowledge or
a lot of knowledge of a thing,and we confuse that with fully
(41:19):
knowing a thing with fullyknowing a thing that's good, and
oftentimes what happens is okay.
Well, I know, you know, I'vewatched a couple of television
shows about black folks, and sotherefore, you know, I know what
I need to know about blackfolks and vice versa.
I've watched a couple of TVshows about white people, so I
know what there is to know aboutwhite people and it's like no
no, no.
(41:44):
I've seen green acres, man.
I've seen green acres right,just ever expanding and ongoing,
and we can't have to carry thehumility to know that man, even
if I've been studying a thingfor 30 years, there is still so
much for me.
Taking back to the marriagething, you know I mean I'm, I've
been with this, you know thisbeautiful woman for 20 plus
years and yet there are stillthings that I'm learning about
(42:05):
her because she's growing aswell and so, even as she grows,
she's learning new things aboutherself and I'm learning new
things about her as I spend timewith her.
You can't get around the needto engage in relationships, to
be deeply and fully known and todeeply and fully know.
It doesn't come just throughwatching news broadcasts and
(42:27):
24-hour news commentary about athing or about a person or
people.
It comes through engagement,ongoing.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, and man, I know we got to wrap this up but I
got to say just one more thingabout that, as you say that, and
the relationship can't justexist when I need it for a
season, come on, come on,because man that's political,
politically, all of a sudden, ohwell, let's wrap arms.
You know when somebody's got toget elected to an office.
(42:56):
Now they want to do that.
And even within our ownSouthern Baptist Convention, you
know, I know thisinterdenominational work that
you do and it's a blessing youdo it.
I just talk about my ownconvention.
Sometimes in my Southern BaptistConvention I'm a part of
sometimes we only want to do itat the annual meeting or when
tensions are high, like if youand your wife only built the
(43:19):
relationship at the anniversarytime, right, or only at a
birthday, then you're notbuilding a relationship.
It's got to be ongoing and itcannot just be when I need
something or you need me.
It's got to be ongoing so thatbecause here if we're used to
having conversations, then wenever have to have the big
(43:40):
conversation Right, and you knowthat, just like me.
When your wife goes, hey, canwe talk?
Oh, what did I do?
How'd I mess up what I do now?
Right, but if you're just usedto talking Right and used to
conversing, then in one of ourconversations coming up, I'm
going to just bring this upbecause we're used to having
that relationship.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, chip.
The way I define it, man, ordescribe it, is that oneness is
a peacetime work.
It's not just a wartime work,it's a peacetime work, and all
the time we think about it as awartime work.
Oh, my goodness, somebody gotshot or we're fussing and we're
arguing.
Okay, let's have someconversations.
(44:25):
No, no, no, no, no.
If we believe Jesus, as weshould, jesus says that we'll be
known by the way we love oneanother.
They'll know that we'redisciples of Christ.
That oneness will tell theworld that he was sent by God
and that God loved him and lovedus.
It's important enough where itshould be, just kind of on in
(44:47):
our rhythms of life, not whenthe war happens, but just the
regular patterns and rhythms oflife.
Brother, how can people keep upwith Chip Luter man?
Tell us a little bit as to how.
Tell us some ways in whichpeople can find you.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Oh, man, just obviously, I think from an
Instagram standpoint, I thinkit's still at chip loot.
I'm not the best social mediaguy, but I think it's just chip
looter.
Uh, obviously, here at thechurch, man, I'd love for people
to know what Franklin Adams gotgoing on.
Um, so, uh, it's, uh, uh,franklin excuse, excuse, my
media team's gonna be upsettingme when I this oh, f-a-b-c-nola,
that's it.
F-a-b-c-nola is usually thebest way to keep up with the
(45:23):
church.
I'm typically preaching aboutonce a month here as we are in
this time of our transition.
At one point I'll go to twice amonth when we get a little bit
closer to the time where my dadwould be transitioning to church
.
To me, that's if I get voted in.
They still got to vote me in,brian, but yeah, but man at Chip
Luter, and I'm on Facebook andInstagram, but the church
(45:46):
YouTube, church website.
Feel free to get in touch andif I could be of help or a
blessing to any of thesechurches or those who are
listening, it'd be my honor toserve you in a way I can.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Excellent, excellent Chip.
It's been incredible man.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Thank you, what an honor.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We know you're a busy brother, but we are incredibly
grateful and those that arelistening.
Thank you so much as always forlistening to Living Reconciled.
You can always keep up with usby searching on Living
Reconciled.
Any podcast app you'll find isLiving Reconciled.
If you want to type in MissionMississippi behind that, that
might make it easier for you tofind us.
But any podcast app you canfind us, we would love for you
to grab it, subscribe to it,like share.
(46:26):
We'd love to hear your feedbackas well.
It's always helpful, sharpensus, makes us better at what we
do.
On behalf of my incrediblefriend, nettie Winters and my
incredible guest Biff Luter.
I'm Brian Crawford signing offsaying God bless.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
God bless all of my incredible friends.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Thanks for joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled, Episode 80, NettieWinters.
(00:33):
Can you believe that?
Episode 80.
I'm your host, Brian Crawford,and I'm with my friend, Nettie.
Nettie, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
sir, I'm doing fine man.
It's amazing.
When Austin's not on here, I'mjust your friend.
When he's on, you're incrediblefriends.
So what happens to?
Incredible?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, austin brings out the best in you, man, so we
can take it up a notch whenAustin's on with us, man.
But since we got a, reallyreally good guest, I'll give you
incredible, all right, no, no,no, since we got a really good
guest, I'll go ahead and callyou incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, you probably go ahead and do some of the
incredible.
So you know, ok, as long as I'mhere, man, I'm happy I may, I
may.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I may.
Anyway, we got we got someincredible sponsors of this
podcast.
I want to give a shout out tothem.
Folks like Nissan and StDominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy
Regions Foundation, MississippiCollege, Anderson, United
Methodist, Grace Temple Church,Mississippi State, Real
Christian Foundation, BrownMissionary Baptist Church,
Christian Life Church, goodfriends like Ms Doris Powell,
(01:40):
Robert Ward and Winters.
Thank you so much foreverything that you do.
It's because of what you do thatwe're able to do what we do,
and today what we're doing istalking to another incredible
friend of mine, Chip Luter.
He is a native of New Orleans,Louisiana.
He is the senior associatepastor at Franklin Avenue
(02:00):
Baptist Church, under theleadership of his father, Dr
Fred Luter, and he is also anincredible husband and father of
a wife by the name of Jasmineand three children Drew Zoe,
Grace and Gabrielle Sierra.
Chip is a dynamic preacher,he's a dynamic thinker, he's an
(02:27):
advocate in the work ofreconciliation, and we couldn't
be more excited and happy tohear more of his story.
So, Chip man, welcome to LivingReconciled man.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, brother.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, with an introduction like that, it is an
honor to be here, man.
I'm wondering who that guy wasyou were talking about.
That's nice I got to live up tothat bio.
That's nice.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, with a name like Luter man.
It's in your blood.
Yes sir, yes sir.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I got one or two right right.
I mean for the firstintroduction of Nettie.
Nettie's looking for more.
The second introduction forChip Chip's.
Like man, you gave me so much Idon't even know what to do with
it.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I got one out of two Good deal, man.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Hey, chip, why don't you start by telling us a little
bit, brother, about your storyof faith, man, how you came to
faith in Christ and how youended up in the vocation of
pastoral ministry?
Yeah, talk to us a little bitabout that pastoral ministry.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, talk to us a little bit about that.
Sure, brother, it's been a joyonce again to be with you.
I mean, I came to faith toChrist at a young age.
Obviously, growing up in church, my dad's been a pastor.
Matter of fact, this year mydad had been the pastor of
Franklin Avenue Baptist Churchhere in New Orleans for 39 years
Wow, 39.
But at the age of about six, no, really, no, seven years old.
(03:46):
Uh, I made the, uh, the verbalaffirmation of faith when, when
the salvation of the gospel wasexplained to me about.
This is as elementary as thisis heaven and this is hell, and
if you want to be in heaven, yougot to know Jesus.
That Jesus is where, if you getto know Jesus, you'll be in
(04:06):
heaven, and without Jesus ishell.
And it was just even just thatsimplicity of the gospel, of
being, of knowing to be arelationship with Jesus and
where that is in eternity, andthen a relationship without
Jesus, where that is.
That was just really at thatsimple, simple gospel age of
seven years old.
But then, after knowing the Lord, really, I would really say
(04:30):
that about 12, 13 years old wasthe time in my faith really just
took off, because I was met atthat stage of life where, yeah,
I say I want to be with Jesusand I want to walk with Jesus.
But then I found myself livingand acting a different way
amongst my friends at school andone of the things about me,
because of my name, mygovernment name given to me is
(04:52):
Fred Luter III, but my nicknameis Chip, as in Chip off the old
block and I found myself, evenjust in middle school, found
myself that at home and atchurch I was Chip, but at school
I was fred, and fred and chipdidn't act the same and I found
(05:12):
myself at a young age, justfeeling convicted and so, uh,
what I I really uh believe was a.
It was a youth revival.
We had a special service atchurch one day and actually, uh,
one one night, and I came outof the choir stand to come down
the aisle because I knew Iwasn't fully committed to the
(05:33):
Lord like I needed to be.
So my calling was that I gotenamored.
One Wednesday night at Biblestudy I left my class to go to
the bathroom.
When I walked by this classroom, A couple of deaconesses were
teaching the five to seven yearold kids class, teaching them
(05:54):
the Bible.
Now, here's the thing I justtold them I will just come sit
in.
What they did not know is Ireally was getting bored in my
class.
I was in, so I was reallytrying to escape.
I did the old pastor kid thingwhere I need to go to the
bathroom, but I never returned.
But the Lord set me up becauseI sat in that class and, man,
I'm watching these ladies teachthese kids the Bible and I'm
(06:17):
like man, I kind of I want totry this out.
And they and, uh, uh, lo andbehold, long story short, they,
let me try it out.
And I enjoyed it so much thatit became something I wanted to
do more.
And, man, I got you know.
God gave me opportunity to betrained as a Sunday school
teacher at the church, and so inmy teenage years I was being
mentored and being trained to bea teacher in Sunday school.
(06:39):
Of course, I only taught theyoung kids and then, but then
that ended up leading to acalling to preach the, preach
the gospel, at about at 16, 16years old, I was at a.
I've had a school which is partof my story is I was at a
Catholic, a predominant whiteCatholic school called Brother
Martin High School, and beingraised Baptist.
(07:02):
That's the part about my storythat's interesting too.
Even though I'm raised in theblack Baptist Church, my
elementary and middle schoolwere predominantly white
Lutheran school.
My high school was apredominantly white Catholic
school, and then I ended upgoing to college at a
predominantly white Baptistcollege, and so I've had this
interdenominational mixture ofmy life.
(07:22):
But it was at Brother Martinwhen I was asked to give a
reflection at the GrandparentsDay Mass.
And here I am thinking whywould they ask me to do this at
a Grandparents Day Mass?
Because I'm growing up Baptist?
You know, there's other whiteCatholic boys here.
You could ask them why ask theblack Baptist kid to come be
part of this?
But here's how God showed mewhat he was doing.
(07:44):
I spoke at that mass and Iliterally did it just because I
was asked and I didn't think, no, none big will be come out of
it.
But man, it was an elderlywhite Catholic lady that came up
to my mom after that and saidma'am, is this your son?
I said yes, ma'am.
Um, my mom said yes, ma'am,this is my son.
She said I just want to let youknow.
If there were more young men inthis world like your son, this
world would be a better place.
And, Brian Natty, I'm tellingyou it crushed me because here
(08:09):
I'm looking at my age, my race,my denomination as the reason
why I wouldn't have impact atthis school, that my only impact
would be at my local uh,predominant black Baptist church
.
But as I spent that day, itwasn't even a sermon, it was
just a reflection, it wasn'teven a sermon.
I just shared on my heart whatGod has taught me about
(08:30):
grandparents and whatgrandparents in my life.
And from that day I said a veryfoolish thing to say, because
it really and I tell everybodywhen I tell my testimony, don't
ever say this to God.
But I said, okay, lord,apparently you want this to
happen, cause I don't.
I was like man, I I've seen mydad, he does this pastor who's
(08:53):
got time to write sermons everySunday, be nice to everybody and
smile everybody.
I don't want to do thatpreacher stuff, I'll just be a
good, faithful church member.
But I said, lord, apparentlyyou're doing something, cause I
don't want this, but you want meto do it.
So, lord, I'm going to beobedient to you, but if this
don't work out, it's your fault.
And now I'm 40 and stillpreaching the gospel.
(09:21):
So, yeah, man, that's a littlebit about my story.
Now, what part of that?
You don't, you don't ever wantto tell God.
I said don't ever tell it,don't tell God, hey God if this
doesn't work, out it's yourfault.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Well, you know, in reality it is right.
It's his idea that you do it.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It is, which, I guess , is why he assures that it will
not fail if it's his idea right.
There you go, there you go Onceagain.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I'm 16 years old.
That's how you pray when you're16.
You talk to God.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Like you got no prayer.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Right, you mentioned it already from the outset.
you know that you're followingin the the the the shoes in many
ways, you know, or, or thatthere's been a a trail that's
been blazed for you, uh, with,with a father in ministry.
Um, your father just so happensto be, uh, the first African
American man who was electedpresident of the Southern
(10:20):
Baptist convention, and so youtalked about this ideal of being
Chip in one circle and thenbeing Fred when you go to school
and places like that, and whatother ways do you feel like
having that trail blazed in sucha way?
(10:42):
How has, how has that shapedyou, I guess?
I guess in ways that are goodand healthy and in, maybe, some
lessons learned in terms of waysthat it wasn't healthy.
How has that shaped you?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
yeah, I have a very um, what's unique about, uh, how
I respond to questions likethat, because I've had it in
many different forms, whetherquestioned as well as you
question it as well as questionslike, well, what is it like in
your dad's shadow, and all that.
But I really what I tell peopleis it's interesting.
What's fascinating for me is tosay it was once I got, once I
(11:20):
owned my faith as my own, and itwasn't just the faith from my
parents, because we always havethat place where, when you
accept Christ at a young age,still in a large part you've
received that faith from what'sbeen passed down to you and so
you know the faith.
But then there's a transitionwhere you own your faith and I
(11:50):
would say for me, once I startedto really own my faith, where I
was a personal walk with theLord for myself, that that
church was not just why I haveto be there because my dad's the
pastor.
Oh, I have to do this becauseyou know, once I really owned it
as no man, just that I saw theword of God open up and even
though, as I started to walk inmy calling more, I noticed to
appreciate what's beentrailblazed, that God's used my
dad to open so many doors.
But the truth of the matter is,even if my dad opens the door,
I still got to walk through it,and so I began to really see
(12:13):
myself as an extension of my momand dad's ministry, the more I
really owned my faith, to see itas, yeah, this is what what God
is doing through them, and nowhe's doing it through me.
But before I really owned myfaith, I it as, yeah, this is
what what God is doing throughthem, and now he's doing it
through me.
But before I really owned myfaith, oh, man, I it was a, it
was a, it was a battle sometimes, because it felt like, well,
(12:33):
I'm Fred and Elizabeth's son, Ican't do anything, you know, I
I'll still.
I'll share this very quickstory.
It's just that, uh, even, uh,at school, man, I had some
friends where I was part of theNGROTC group and we had a drill
meet one day, and after andafter the drill meet was done,
uh, they said, hey, man, we'regoing all out to eat, uh,
afterwards.
And so my parents were thereand I and uh, they said, hey,
(12:56):
fred, you want to come?
And I said, oh, yeah, man, comeon, let's?
Um, yeah, man, I'd love to go.
And then I told my parents hey,they're all going out to eat
lunch.
They're all going out to eat.
Can I go with them?
I said where are y'all going?
And so I asked my friends wherethey're going.
I cannot make this up.
My friends were going toHooters.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So guess what Fred Elizabeth said you are not going
to Hooters but.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I'm not going to go home.
Yeah, they don't care whatpeople say about the wings, I
just wasn't going because soobviously moments like that as a
kid you're thinking, man, Ican't go.
You know my friends are going,I want to go.
But obviously it took time andI think one of the great things
(13:43):
that God, the best thing God,could have done, is my first
work in vocation ministry was inyouth ministry and I think that
was the best thing the Lordcould have done because it was a
different sphere of ministrythan my dad.
My dad's ministry was more toadults and especially from the
convention level of what he wasdoing there.
But youth ministry, you know,teenagers didn't know who Fred
(14:05):
Luter Jr was.
They didn't know about that.
Southern Baptist Conventionpresident.
Matter of fact, still to thisday, if I end up going to preach
somewhere for sometimes I stillget invited for certain youth
events it'll be the leaders orthe chaperones that'll be.
You know what?
I heard your dad preach, youknow, but these teenagers have
no clue who my dad is.
And so the blessing of that wasthat it was just this balance
(14:27):
of that.
Hey, you know, I can't justwalk into a room and like, oh,
your friend Luther's son, thatwould only happen with the
adults and those who knew fromthe convention.
But most of the rooms.
If I walked in ministering toteenagers, hey, man, I had to, I
had to earn, I had to earn theinfluence in the room and
connect with the people thatwere there.
So, so, so, yes, that's what Iwould really say, man.
For me, man, my dad's opened alot of good doors for me.
(14:49):
But for me, I got better withbeing knowing whose son I am
(15:18):
when I really started to own myfaith and knowing, ultimately,
I'm God's son.
So when I, as I, got myidentity in Christ and even my
identity as what God has placedme to do in ministry, that's
when I'd be able to, couldembrace a lot more, and that I
don't get disappointed if peoplesay, oh, you're Fred's son or I
.
You know it's like not had.
I've not tried to utilize mydad's name to get me into places
, but because I started my areain youth ministry and uh and man
, you guys know, with teenagersthat's a whole different level
of ministry than ministering toa doctor.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Absolutely yeah, talk , talk to us a little bit, chip.
I'm sorry, go ahead, natty,jump in.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Talk to us a little bit, Chip, I'm sorry, go ahead,
Natty, jump in.
I can just say that teenageministry is brutal and it's a
bully.
You know in terms of how theyoperate.
But, Fred, I wanted to.
You talked about your diversity, of being at the Catholic
Church, Lutheran Church, andthen you go home, you got to be
black and Baptist and all thatstuff.
(16:04):
How is that working out inthose spaces and outside of
those spaces and those spacescombined?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I'll tell you what I did not know, because I
can look back on it now and nowsee what the Lord was doing.
Man, I've been so blessed andhonored to be able to preach in
so many different environments,matter of fact, even at some.
At one point last year, I thinkit was last year at one point
last year I had, you know, I waspreaching at my church on on
(16:33):
one day and then, afterpreaching at church, of course
we're still a predominantlyAfrican-American church.
So I'm preaching on a Sundaymorning at Franklin Baptist
Church.
Then a couple of days later I'mgetting on a plane, really a
day later, because I waspreaching on Tuesday.
So I got on a plane.
Monday I'm flying to Riverside,california, to preach chapel at
California Baptist University.
Wow, and so you just look atthe contrast of those crowds, of
(16:56):
a predominant African-AmericanSunday morning experience and
then a predominant white collegewhich still has a good mixture,
because they're not just whitestudents there, there's
African-American, there'sinternational students there,
and so not only was it just adifference in demographic by way
of race, but it was also by age.
(17:18):
And then, at the same time,I've had opportunities to be
part of certaininterdenominational things and
I've been in meetings, even at alocal.
We have a local organization inNew Orleans called Together New
Orleans that does a lot of worktogether and there are
different universalist churchesand Presbyterian churches, and
(17:39):
so what I think has been thebest thing that's helped me is
that I've had a ministry where Ican walk in any room and feel
comfortable.
I never have to worry about, Inever immediately worry about
how are people just taking me inand looking at me.
I go engage them.
(18:00):
And I think because I've hadthat kind of experience, because
even the way I ended up at aCatholic school was that I had a
white friend named George whowas my good friend in middle
school at a Lutheran schoolcalled St Paul Lutheran no, I'm
sorry, that was Prince of Peace,lutheran, yeah, but at Prince
of Peace, when I was at Princeof Peace with George, I think
around our seventh grade year,his brother was a drum major, a
(18:24):
band director, band leader atBrother Martin High School he
was.
He was the.
He wasn't a band director, butyou know when, when you're a
student, drum is a drum major.
He wasn't the band director,but you know, when you're a
student he's a drum major.
I forgot, but because he ledthe band he could get us free
tickets to the football games.
So I would go with George toBrother Martin's football games
(18:46):
as a middle schooler.
So of course when I'm lookingat high schools to go to, I
check out brother Martin, causeI was already going to the
football games in George man,that was my guy.
I I would have never known whatthe band queen was If not for my
friend George, like, like whenI had to be get exposed to other
types of music outside of my myyou know, cause I grew up
(19:07):
Baptist man, I'm used to man.
I never forgot.
I hung out with George one dayand he put on Bohemian Rhapsody.
I had never heard this song andit was great and so.
(19:27):
But of course, because I was myfriend and I checked out of
school and I loved it, I wentthere and so I had this, these
different worlds between beingand been with a predominant
white population of studentsduring my school days but then
being at my Black Baptist church.
And I think what it's done forme to this day is how I
communicate and how I engage anyaudience, because I've formed
(19:47):
significant relationships withpeople who are outside of my
race, relationships with peoplewho are outside of my race and
also it's helped me not togeneralize, because I think
that's a big thing and when itcomes to racial reconciliation,
it's hard to reconcile withother races when there's a
generalization of another race.
So I can't generalize aboutwhite people, because I've got
(20:10):
significant relationships ofpeople who are white.
I can't generalize aboutHispanic community or Latino
Latino community, because I'vegot significant relationships
there and and it even becamemore so when I got to serve in
Tampa and we served in a in acommunity that had refugee
families there, and so there wasa refugee family from Congo,
(20:32):
africa, where we had tocommunicate with the five
yearold because she was the onethat spoke the best English.
Her siblings spoke Haitian andFrench, creole.
So I can't generalize aboutpockets of people, about
demographics of people andethnicities, because I had
significant relationships.
So I'd say that's the biggestimpact about being at these
(20:54):
different schools.
And then Dallas Baptist is, eventhough they're predominantly
white, they had over 300international students, and so
I'm meeting Asian students thatare Chinese, that are Japanese,
which having to learn thatdifference as well.
So I'm so glad God got me outof that ignorance.
And then also meeting Indianpeople from Indian descent.
(21:19):
I will say my girl, caroline,the first time she made curry I
just thought, I thought I wasgoing to be with Jesus.
But she had to teach me you gotto have levels to this chip,
you got to take, you got to paceyourself.
But I just say that to share,to show that there's not a room
(21:40):
I can go in and feel like Ican't engage this room, because
God has given me so manyopportunities in my upbringing,
through education and ministryexperiences, to be in different
environments, to just be alearner, and once I learn what's
going on and then I bring myfull self to the table as well.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, you know, I was saying in reading your bio and
background, just geographiclocations, just passing through
those areas from New Orleans toCalifornia to Florida, it's like
okay, that's three differentcountries there.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, it is yeah, yeah, I lived seven years in
Dallas.
If I look at my Dallas BaptistUniversity years, I graduated oh
, I didn't hear.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I forgot about Texas man.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's a country where you just live Absolutely.
I was in Dallas from 2002 to2009 because I graduated in 2006
from Dallas Baptist.
But then a great church,concord Church, which actually
just celebrated their 50 years,they hired me as their senior
high youth pastor.
So I was on that for aboutthree, three years.
(22:49):
So from my college years toworking at Concord was about
seven years total.
And then, after being inFranklin Avenue for some years
as a youth pastor here, then Igot to serve at Idlewild Baptist
Church, which is actually apredominant white Southern
Baptist church, but I pastored acampus of that church in the
inner city of Tampa calledSulphur Springs.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That was Texas, New Orleans, Tampa.
Did you have a relationshipwith EK?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, listen, ek Bailey, ek Bailey.
I would not have been at DallasBaptist university if not for
EK Bailey.
Uh, when I was looking at whenI got serious about my calling
and where I wanted to go toschool, um, well, actually, it
was actually.
No, it was right before I even.
Uh, cause, here's how I triedto.
I tried to trick Jesus.
You know how we try to trickthe Lord All right, lord, don't
(23:39):
put weed there.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Watch that weed.
Watch that weed.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, let me talk about me, me, me, y'all were
better than me.
So no, but yeah, at one pointin my ministry, well, one point
in my teenage years, I said, ok,well, maybe the Lord, maybe
it's not, maybe it's not pastor,but because I was teaching a
lot as a teenager and doingSunday school and Bible study,
people were coming to me forspiritual counsel.
So I said, ah, that's Lord, hewants me to be a Christian
(24:06):
counselor, he doesn't want me tobe a preacher.
And I'll never forget, one ofthe schools that had a great
Christian counseling program wasactually a school Dallas
Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
And when.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
EK Bailey came yeah, dts.
And when EK Bailey came to thetime to do revival for my dad at
Franklin, I told him.
I said you know, I've actuallybeen looking at some programs at
a school out there called DTS.
And he said, yes, but it's amaster's level school and I need
a place to do my undergrad.
So if I came to Dallas, wherewould you say I'd go?
He said, have you ever heard ofDBU?
I said no, I've never.
(24:36):
And you know, ek Bailey, youknow that that I can't, I can't
do it justice.
But you know, he was like DBU.
And and I said what's that?
He said Dallas, baptist year.
And DBU was in the exhibit hall, wow.
And I met Dennis Lynam, who'shome with the Lord now, just
(24:57):
said, you know, just had hispassing within the last year or
two.
And when I wrote down FredLuder III on the interest card,
well, you know what happenednext?
Oh yeah, oh yeah and so yeah.
But man, even when, yeah, andso so yeah.
But then the eyes were open.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, because my dad actually preached the convention
sermon that year and so it wasa lot of exploring.
So so, yeah, but man, but thatwas that short story.
Long story short was that Ifell out the car.
They called.
I went and visited the campus,loved it, and Dallas was an easy
sell.
Just love that city.
All the major sports are there.
I grew up on Tony Evans' voicelistening on the radio, so I
(25:38):
thought I'd easily be a memberof OCBF.
But then when I got to Dallas,ek Bailey touched one of his
ministers to get me right tochurch.
And then, once I got to Concord, I really saw the opportunity
to serve there and especiallythe way they groom preachers,
man, I mean, it is a preachinglaboratory.
But the most important thingwas in their youth ministry.
(26:00):
I talked to Pastor Brown, whowas a youth pastor there, and he
said he said, chip, I don'thave a lot of young college men
in my ministry.
Praise God for the ladies thatGod sent out to our ministry.
But our young men need some men, not just in their forties and
fifties and sixties to look upto, but I have men in their
twenties and thirties.
I just don't have around themand it was just like an instant
(26:21):
thing, that that tugged on myheart to say well, you know what
?
This is the place I need to be.
I know I'll be under the wordof God, I know I'll get my
training, but that the day of mycollege graduation I'm sorry,
two days before my collegegraduation that Concord would
offer me a job to be a seniorhigh pastor at 22 years old, at
(26:43):
the.
Concord Church and so and PastorCarter was pastoring by then,
so I got to be there for some ofhis early years of transition,
and which is a blessing to watchthat, knowing that I've got
some years of transition coming,which is a blessing to watch
that, knowing that I've got someyears of transition coming
ahead for me and so I got a lotof lessons I got to watch him do
as he transitioned into thatrole, following a legend like EK
(27:03):
Bailey.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I was about to say that's a good segue to talk
about when you're talking aboutwatching, like you said, and
following behind.
You know, these dynamic andlarger than life personalities
like EK Bailey, and you know,and of course, you know Dr Luter
(27:26):
Jr, for yourself and yourfather and and just kind of
preparing the way your fatherand and just kind of preparing
the way let's pivot a little bitinto reconciliation, because
you, you know, your father'sbeen at the forefront of this.
He, he's, he's, he's been, youknow, knocking down doors that
were once closed, uh, to toAfrican-American, uh, pastors,
(27:48):
um, he's been, he's been on thefront lines as it relates to
bridging gaps and creating, youknow, exhibiting the
reconciliation that we have inChrist and in real ways in
different places.
What have you learned and whathave you gleaned about the work
(28:11):
of reconciliation as you've beenin these places, because he
didn't go alone when you werewith him alone in these places,
and even you kicked down some ofyour own doors.
What have you learned aboutthis work, particularly in our
country, but even if you want togo more, more specifically into
the context of your community,what have you learned about this
(28:34):
work?
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind
is checking your own heart andthe desire to want it.
The thing about my dad and mymom I watched them do so much is
, even though, leading apredominantly black church in a
predominantly black community,because part of Franklin
(28:56):
Avenue's history is that it wasa white church for many years
when it first started, but itwas white flight that changed
the look of the neighborhood andthe community and then it
became a predominantly blackchurch later on.
But I think their heart forministry and their heart for the
gospel is the first thing, andthe gospel wasn't just going to
be limited to only even thoughthe ministry was pronounced
(29:19):
black when they got into theSouthern Baptist Convention,
because that's him as pastor,and Franklin Avenue was a
Southern Baptist church.
And so that's the part that alot of people miss about his
(29:39):
journey, that some people thinkthat, oh, he just chose to be
Southern Baptist.
No, he didn't.
He was interviewed to be apastor of a church and this
church so happened to beSouthern Baptist.
But then, when he had a chanceto, when they had a chance to be
autonomous, after, you know,growing, and they got a place
where the financial good wherenow they didn't no longer have
to be a mission church underanother church, they could be
(30:01):
autonomous.
The members asked and now thatwe're autonomous, can we leave
the Southern Baptist Convention?
And he was like, well, whywould we ever leave?
And that's when he started.
Members started talking aboutthe history and and some of the
some of the conventions pass andand he said well, you know,
since we've, since I've beenhere, the convention been
(30:21):
nothing but good to us.
They've been supporting usfinancially, they've done
training and Sunday school.
We talk about the seminary andall that.
Like he said, why would?
He said, but here's the thing,said we all have a past, I have
a past, you have a past, and ifwe all made decisions just
because of what was done in ourpast, none of us would be here.
He said you would have.
I believe, if I'm not mistaken,he would even say you would
(30:44):
have elected me your pastor ifyou took just my past.
And uh, but he said.
He said but, uh, let's do this,let's stay in this convention,
because maybe, maybe, the Lord,we could be a better impact to
this convention, being a part ofit than being outside of it.
And I really believe that startsin the heart.
And I think the start of racialreconciliation has got to be
(31:07):
what is the gospel impressing?
What is the Lord and the gospelimpressing upon your heart in
this work?
And if that's, and if that'syour start, then everything will
happen.
Because if the start ispolitical, or if it's political
gain, if it's ministry exposure,if it's, or if it's just, if
(31:27):
it's compromising to the culture, like there's all these other
motives, that can happen.
But it's got to start with thegospel and I think that's the
part for my mom and dad that Iwatched him for so many years is
that you have a pastor of achurch and his wife.
That models reconciliation,because even in their
relationships they did not limittheir relationships to just
(31:51):
African-Americans.
The other part I would say isbe OK with times that are
uncomfortable.
I think the challenge of racialreconciliation in our country,
especially today, and especiallyin our political division, we
(32:12):
want the conversations to be socomforting and convenient and
just easy, and it's not going tobe easy, um, and so you have to
be comfortable with beinguncomfortable at times, uh.
The other part I would saywatching my parents and in my
journey, um, uh, knowing whereyou're ignorant, it's okay that
you don't know and you have tolearn.
(32:34):
I've watched my dad have tohave conversations and ask
questions because he literallyjust did not know, and I think
one of the challenges in racialreconciliation is sometimes
especially for those of us thathave had a lot of academic study
sometimes we can be so wellread about racial reconciliation
(32:57):
but we've not really done thework of racial reconciliation
and that's black and white.
Whether you're anAfrican-American who's read
certain literature about whitepeople or about what's happened
in the past, or if you're whiteand you've read material that
more speak from the whiteperspective, like the truth is,
(33:18):
or if you've watched yourfavorite news person or podcast
person, like all that'sinformation.
But when you sit face to facewith somebody, that's the real
work and that, for me, is thepart that I believe is just a
crucial thing that if I have theopportunity to have
(33:40):
relationships or haveconversations with people that
are not like me that whetherthat's Black, white, hispanic
Asian, you name it Indian, allin between, white, hispanic
Asian, you name it Indian, allin between I want to sit down
and if I'm curious, I'd love toask.
(34:06):
And if it's a question where Imay offend, well, maybe I don't
ask that question first, maybe Istart with the relationship so
I know where we stand, because Ican't meet somebody who's not
like me the first day and ask aquestion where it feels like I'm
going to offend them.
And the only example I'll giveof that is I had a white brother
, man, good brother, older thanme, and during the pandemic,
during these this 2020 season,where we were not only divided
(34:29):
over masks and everything else,but we had George Floyd and
Ahmed Arbery in these cases, manthat just you could not ignore,
and man, he asked me somequestions one day.
We met for breakfast because hewas really troubling, because
this is a guy, just intransparency.
I'm not going to say I'm notsaying this to be stereotypical
of a group, but I'm saying thisis where he was.
(34:49):
He's a reform guy and so in hissystem of belief and system of
how he looks at the scripturesthen that he couldn't go with
these things of systemic racismand and discrimination because
in his eyes, as he told me, hewas very blunt.
If this was our firstconversation and we'd never
(35:20):
talked before, it would havebeen rough, bro, it would have
been rough, but he's a brotherthat I know and I love he was an
accountability partner and man.
We just walked through a seasonand it was a powerful time.
So those are the kind of quickthings I would share.
Man, check your own heart, beopen to be you know.
You know, educate yourignorance where you can and
(35:41):
don't be so well, read aboutsomething and sit in front of
somebody and have the toughconversations, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, that's good brother, that's good man and I
promise I'm not going to rat youout to Elbert McGowan and some
of our reformed brothers outthere.
Elbert, we love you, brother,we love you.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I love it, man, by the way, and I'm glad you
brought that up.
Here's the thing.
You know.
He's the only guy in my lifethat I've actually had some
conversations.
Yeah, we've actually sat down.
We've talked through Calvinismand we've talked through about
why there are the samescriptures I've been reading,
he's been reading, but theconclusion he comes to, and the
conclusion I come to that Christdied for all.
(36:26):
And it's been greatconversation.
Now doesn't mean the fact thathe changed me or I changed him.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Man, that's.
You know, that's one of thebiggest things I feel like, not
just in reconciliation work orracial healing work, but just in
crossing divisions in generalis that we always feel not
always.
We oftentimes feel that we haveto have complete agreement in
(36:55):
order to build unity and inorder to build something
harmonious.
And the reality is that, man,I'm living in a house with a
beautiful woman that I've beenliving with for 20 plus years.
Now, come on 22 years.
We're celebrating in November.
In those 22 years, 22 of them,we've disagreed 22 of those
(37:21):
years we've disagreed.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
That's good man.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
We're building deeper and deeper unity and oneness
and intimacy, and I oftentimesfeel like if that can be done in
the closest of relationshipsthat we have, how much more so,
you know, when we start talkingabout these other relationships.
Yes, we can have some points ofcontention and disagreement,
but that doesn't have tonecessarily mean the end of
(37:46):
harmony, the end of oneness andunity for us.
We and we can work through that, and I think that's what
Christian maturation should take, should take us to.
And you've said some incrediblehelp, incredibly helpful things
about humility, Cause I, that'swhat I heard and the ability to
say Humility because that'swhat I heard in the ability to
say, listen, I don't know what Idon't know.
(38:06):
And there are times in which,even when I think I know, I
don't know.
And so that requires a lot ofhumility to come into a
conversation, to be open mindedin that regard.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Because it takes for you one of the things I love to
say a lot in certain times, andI even want to talk about
humility.
You know what brings all of usat the most base level humility.
At some point, at some point inour lives, we all had to be
trained to use the bathroom in atoilet.
Yes, and notice what I saidthere, we had to be trained to
(38:39):
use it, but that happens in atoilet.
Yeah, like, at some point inour lives, we like, and so it,
it, it should bring to like the.
Yes, you get older, you learn alot, you experience more.
You, you, you'd have beenexposed to a lot, but don't ever
get to the place where you'vesuch so much arrived.
And and you know, and I thinkyou know, just like, we have a
(39:01):
heavenly father who's infinite,and and because, and there's
never enough that we, he willnever be fully known by us,
because we are limited people,we are finite.
We are finite trying tounderstand the infinite.
And I, and that's why I justthink you got to come say, and
going back to I said earlierabout, do we care, as long as we
make sure we don't generalize,because I told my church when I.
(39:21):
I was in Tampa during thepandemic and doing those racial
attention.
I said, if you are having moreconversations about racial
reconciliation, if you're aboutrace and this division, if
you're having more time, ifyou're doing, if you're watching
Fox News, cnn, msnbc or any ofthese news platforms or blogs
whatever, if you're spendingmore time with these figures and
(39:45):
you spend no time with thepeople, you got right here in
the church, because in ourchurch we had black and white
and a mixture in between.
Like I don't know that face onthe news.
I know their voice but I don'tknow them personally.
If you've ever wondered aboutwhat a black person feels about
police brutality, you got peopleright here in your church.
If, if you ever want to knowwhat a white person feels about
(40:08):
when they, when they, when theyhear words like defund the
police and all that, like, ok,you got somebody right here.
Whatever question is on yourmind, don't take the, the, the,
the narrative Right On news andyou have to sit in front of
somebody and you know whetheryour contention is with Black
(40:31):
Lives Matter, with theDemocratic Party, with the
Republican Party, with you know,not, not all cops are bad cops
and not like all these phrasesand things that are said that
can rile us up.
It's a hey man when it comes tothe gospel.
The gospel cuts through allthat, because if I have a
brother and sister in Christ whomay have a perspective that I'm
(40:54):
missing, I want to get to knowit.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Yeah yeah, chip man, you know this has been so good
bro.
Right, yeah, yeah, chip man,you know this has been so good
bro.
I'm even even, as you mentionedthat.
I'm thinking about theconfusion that we often,
oftentimes have, where weconfuse having some knowledge or
a lot of knowledge of a thing,and we confuse that with fully
(41:19):
knowing a thing with fullyknowing a thing that's good, and
oftentimes what happens is okay.
Well, I know, you know, I'vewatched a couple of television
shows about black folks, and sotherefore, you know, I know what
I need to know about blackfolks and vice versa.
I've watched a couple of TVshows about white people, so I
know what there is to know aboutwhite people and it's like no
no, no.
(41:44):
I've seen green acres, man.
I've seen green acres right,just ever expanding and ongoing,
and we can't have to carry thehumility to know that man, even
if I've been studying a thingfor 30 years, there is still so
much for me.
Taking back to the marriagething, you know I mean I'm, I've
been with this, you know thisbeautiful woman for 20 plus
years and yet there are stillthings that I'm learning about
(42:05):
her because she's growing aswell and so, even as she grows,
she's learning new things aboutherself and I'm learning new
things about her as I spend timewith her.
You can't get around the needto engage in relationships, to
be deeply and fully known and todeeply and fully know.
It doesn't come just throughwatching news broadcasts and
(42:27):
24-hour news commentary about athing or about a person or
people.
It comes through engagement,ongoing.
Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah, and man, I know we got to wrap this up but I
got to say just one more thingabout that, as you say that, and
the relationship can't justexist when I need it for a
season, come on, come on,because man that's political,
politically, all of a sudden, ohwell, let's wrap arms.
You know when somebody's got toget elected to an office.
(42:56):
Now they want to do that.
And even within our ownSouthern Baptist Convention, you
know, I know thisinterdenominational work that
you do and it's a blessing youdo it.
I just talk about my ownconvention.
Sometimes in my Southern BaptistConvention I'm a part of
sometimes we only want to do itat the annual meeting or when
tensions are high, like if youand your wife only built the
(43:19):
relationship at the anniversarytime, right, or only at a
birthday, then you're notbuilding a relationship.
It's got to be ongoing and itcannot just be when I need
something or you need me.
It's got to be ongoing so thatbecause here if we're used to
having conversations, then wenever have to have the big
(43:40):
conversation Right, and you knowthat, just like me.
When your wife goes, hey, canwe talk?
Oh, what did I do?
How'd I mess up what I do now?
Right, but if you're just usedto talking Right and used to
conversing, then in one of ourconversations coming up, I'm
going to just bring this upbecause we're used to having
that relationship.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, chip.
The way I define it, man, ordescribe it, is that oneness is
a peacetime work.
It's not just a wartime work,it's a peacetime work, and all
the time we think about it as awartime work.
Oh, my goodness, somebody gotshot or we're fussing and we're
arguing.
Okay, let's have someconversations.
(44:25):
No, no, no, no, no.
If we believe Jesus, as weshould, jesus says that we'll be
known by the way we love oneanother.
They'll know that we'redisciples of Christ.
That oneness will tell theworld that he was sent by God
and that God loved him and lovedus.
It's important enough where itshould be, just kind of on in
(44:47):
our rhythms of life, not whenthe war happens, but just the
regular patterns and rhythms oflife.
Brother, how can people keep upwith Chip Luter man?
Tell us a little bit as to how.
Tell us some ways in whichpeople can find you.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Oh, man, just obviously, I think from an
Instagram standpoint, I thinkit's still at chip loot.
I'm not the best social mediaguy, but I think it's just chip
looter.
Uh, obviously, here at thechurch, man, I'd love for people
to know what Franklin Adams gotgoing on.
Um, so, uh, it's, uh, uh,franklin excuse, excuse, my
media team's gonna be upsettingme when I this oh, f-a-b-c-nola,
that's it.
F-a-b-c-nola is usually thebest way to keep up with the
(45:23):
church.
I'm typically preaching aboutonce a month here as we are in
this time of our transition.
At one point I'll go to twice amonth when we get a little bit
closer to the time where my dadwould be transitioning to church
.
To me, that's if I get voted in.
They still got to vote me in,brian, but yeah, but man at Chip
Luter, and I'm on Facebook andInstagram, but the church
(45:46):
YouTube, church website.
Feel free to get in touch andif I could be of help or a
blessing to any of thesechurches or those who are
listening, it'd be my honor toserve you in a way I can.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Excellent, excellent Chip.
It's been incredible man.
Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Thank you, what an honor.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We know you're a busy brother, but we are incredibly
grateful and those that arelistening.
Thank you so much as always forlistening to Living Reconciled.
You can always keep up with usby searching on Living
Reconciled.
Any podcast app you'll find isLiving Reconciled.
If you want to type in MissionMississippi behind that, that
might make it easier for you tofind us.
But any podcast app you canfind us, we would love for you
to grab it, subscribe to it,like share.
(46:26):
We'd love to hear your feedbackas well.
It's always helpful, sharpensus, makes us better at what we
do.
On behalf of my incrediblefriend, nettie Winters and my
incredible guest Biff Luter.
I'm Brian Crawford signing offsaying God bless.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
God bless all of my incredible friends.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Thanks for joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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