EP. 81: Defining Moments Special Feature

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What does authentic racial reconciliation look like in the body of Christ? Dr. Brian Crawford’s journey from cybersecurity expert to president of Mission Mississippi offers powerful answers.

After 21 years in federal service, a deep encounter with Jesus’ prayer in John 17 ignited Crawford’s passion for unity in the church. Growing up navigating both Black and white cultural spaces, he later founded City Light Church—intentionally planting it where “cultural collisions” could become “connections.” Today, his ministry brings together people from diverse racial, cultural, and economic backgrounds to worship and serve as one.

In this episode, Crawford unpacks Mission Mississippi’s approach to reconciliation, teaching believers the relational “fundamentals” needed to bridge divides before tackling tough conversations about race or politics. He also shares how recognizing his own “weighted advantages” fuels his drive to create opportunities for others.

📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the work of building bridges and living out the unity Christ calls us to.

Special thanks to our sponsors: 

Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thank you for joining me today.
I want to share a quote withyou by Mahatma Gandhi.
He said it has always been amystery to me how men can feel
themselves honored by thehumiliation of their fellow
being.
My goodness Boy, that says awhole lot.
In other words, how would itmake you feel great to minimize

(00:21):
other people?
Listen, you're gonna enjoy myprogram today.
I am on assignment and so myguest host is Dr Nettie Winters
and my guest his guest is DrBrian Crawford, who is current
president of Mission Mississippi.
They have an incredible workthat they're doing and they're

(00:46):
going to share the work thatthey're doing in terms of racial
reconciliation andreconciliation in the body of
Christ.
Stay tuned, we'll see you nextweek, but stay tuned for my
guest host, dr Nady Winters, andhis guest, our guest, brian
Crawford.
Stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm Josh Trim.
With Pennington and Trim AlarmServices, we firmly believe in
offering the latest and greatestin camera and access control
technology.
With the Alarmcom platform,we're able to offer a
user-friendly and fullyintegrated service.
To do just that.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Welcome to Defining Moments with Larry Nix, where
our focus is touching the livesof people with a spirit of hope

(01:57):
for life.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I'm Nettie Winters.
I'm your guest host forDefining Moments.
I'm excited to be with you.
I'm your guest host forDefining Moments.
I'm excited to be with you.
I'm really excited about ourguest today, but you can join
Larry and his guests everyWednesday on this newly launched
multimedia digital network,thenightmississippitv, and every
Tuesday and Thursday from 11 to12 on 104.3 FM, a live stream

(02:23):
on Facebook, youtube or iTunesat WPB1043.
That's a mouthful.
So we want you to join us everyweek, every Wednesday for the
podcast and every Tuesday andThursday for Defining Moments
with Larry Nix.
I'm Nettie Winters again.
Larry and I have been friendsfor a long time.

(02:45):
I'm excited that he gives methe privilege of setting and
filling in for him while he'sout, and so we're excited that
we have with us, for our guesttoday is Mr Brian Crawford.
He is the president of MissionMississippi.
Welcome, mr Crawford, toDefining Moments.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Delighted to be here on Defining Moments.
Defining Moments normally withLarry Nix.
Today is Defining Moments withNettie Winters.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
All right, I'm excited to be with you and I
believe the last time Iguest-hosted for Larry, you was
our guest, and so I'm excited tohave you on the program today.
Why don't we get started?
Why don't you introduceyourself and how you got to
Mission Mississippi?

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, yeah, brian Crawford, have the privilege of,
as Nettie, as you mentioned,have the privilege of leading
Mission Mississippi, standing onthe shoulders of giants.
I tell people all the time if Icome in the room a little
taller, it's because I got bigshoulders that I'm standing on.
And so don't rear have bigshoulders that you can stand on
Not just office weird, not justoffice weird but of course,

(03:49):
yourself, my predecessor andothers like Lee Paris and Jarvis
Ward and many men and womenthat made Mission Mississippi
possible.
So I started officially inJanuary 23, took the role of
president April 1st of 2023.
Before that, I spent 21 yearsin federal service working with
the US Army Corps of Engineersin an engineering

(04:12):
capacityocational slash.
Co-vocational pastor.
Minister licensure.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I want you to connect the dots, All of that stuff you
talked about with the coolveneer and now the head of
Mission Mississippi, and as apastor you know connect those
dots.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah, yeah so.
So the Lord called me in theministry.
A lot of people have thoserevelatory moments, those 12
o'clock at night wake up andthen they're watching TV and
somebody on TV pointing theirfinger at the camera and saying
you supposed to be a preacher.
I didn't have one of thosemoments, I didn't have a
revelatory moment like that.

(05:02):
I just I was called into faithby the Lord as a rising senior
in high school and my father wasa preacher and I ignored,
ignored, ignored the gospel andhis messages for a long time

(05:25):
older and can begin to reallystart asking questions about
life and what, and what my lifepertained to, and what, what
eternity was and where I, whereI lined up in the in the grand
scheme of eternity.
Um, I began to have questionsabout Christ and what it meant
to follow him, and so, um, Isurrendered my life.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
So you was a high school senior.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Surrendered my life, uh, as a high school, going into
my senior year, and began towalk with Jesus and obviously he
radically changed everythingabout me.
I was, in many ways, aprototypical preacher kid trying
to run away from any callingwhatsoever that aligned with
Christianity or preaching.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Were you conscious of it?
I hear people say that.
Were you conscious of the factthat you was running away?

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Were you conscious of the fact that you were running
away?
No, I just didn't want to.
In many ways I didn't want tohave anything to do with the
Christian life in a serious way.
I mean, obviously I hadreverence for God, but I was
trying my best to just avoid allof that and do my own thing for
as long as I possibly could.

(06:25):
So I didn't know I was runningaway from a calling or anything
like that.
I just knew I wanted to do myown thing and the Lord just
captured my heart.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Would that be like somebody trying to push you into
a major or a job or career thatyou didn't want any part of,
and you're just going to avoidthat?
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
I think there is some of that.
I think, as a preacher's kid,you're always around the church.
Of course, you see both thegood and the not so good.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
I rarely have an opportunity to press on stuff
like this.
I'm going to push you aroundthis Press press.
You know I'm thinking is thathanging around the church there
are, I know growing up the olderpeople would project or
prophesy what do you want tocall it?

(07:17):
Oh, you're going to be a this,you're going to be a that.
It's kind of like, well, you'rea preacher's kid, you didn't
expect to be a preacher.
You're a preacher's kid, you'reexpected to do this, and you
know, and you get caught doingsomething you weren't supposed
to be doing.
It's like, really, aren't you apreacher's kid?
Like, that's how some specialanointing that exempt you from
the human race Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
One hundred percent, spot on, I think, those
pressures.
I think also, like I said,being in the church you get a
chance to see the good and thebad.
You get a chance to see yourfamily's joys serving Christ,
but you also get a chance to seeyour family's tears in serving
Christ, and so all of that, Ithink, plays a role in terms of

(07:59):
preacher's kids trying to runaway from whatever it is that
God is calling them.
And not every preacher's kid iscalled into the ministry, as
you know.
But but the way I ended upthere, Some of them have run.
But the way I ended up there wasafter I, after I surrendered my
life to the Lord and he beganto really just move deeply in my

(08:24):
heart, I grew a very deepthirst for his word and his
people and I really pursuedtrying to learn as much as I
possibly could about the word ofGod.
And I would be in college, sitdown small groups and meeting in

(08:44):
the student union and crackingopen the scriptures with friends
.
And just the more and more Idid that, the more and more my
friends said hey, man, let's domore of that.
Man, you have a real knack forjust unpacking this Bible and
just making it so plain and sosimple.
And so that led to campusministry opportunities, which
led to youth ministryopportunities, which led to

(09:07):
preaching on Sundays andpreaching in special occasions
and events.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
You get the opportunity to speak to college
campus ministries even now eventeach at the university

(09:32):
university.
So those young folks that's inhigh school now or college and
find themselves in the positionyou were in and having these
inclinations that they mightneed to do something different
from what they're doing, whatkind of challenge would you
issue them or what kind ofconfidence you would share with
them about moving forward withthat urge and an urging that
they feel?

Speaker 4 (09:49):
Yeah, that's a great question, Eddie.
I'll give you some counsel thatwas given to me years and years
ago, going all the way backprobably 2004, 2003.
I was at a concert and therewas a very famous Christian
artist who was there performing.

(10:09):
One of the friends that I waswith said hey, man, I really
want to get some tips from theguy.
And so he went up to the guyand he said man, I'm an aspiring
artist looking to get where youare.
Oh yeah, what kind of advicewould you have for me?
And the gentleman said well,what I'll tell you is that I

(10:31):
would urge you to go back andlook at the walk of Moses,
because when Moses, if you lookat the end of the story, then
you would think that Moses wassitting around in Egypt saying
you know what, when I grow up,what I'm going to do is I'm
going to lead the people ofIsrael out of Egypt and I'm
going to put my staff down onthe banks of the Red Sea and see
God part of them and then leadthem over to the promised land.

(10:52):
He said Moses didn't have anyof that on his mind.
In fact, when Moses was in hiswill, in his moment, he didn't
have any of that on his mind,but it was one small step of
obedience after the other.
Moses was trying to get to Leoman, but it was one small step
of obedience after the otherthat led Moses on the journey

(11:13):
back to Egypt.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
One small step at a time.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
One small step of obedience at a time, and
oftentimes what we do is weallow the big visions of where
is God taking me and what am Igoing to do with my life and how
is my life going to havemeaning and significance.
We allow those big steps tocloud the opportunity to take
the first step.
And so what?
I would urge you know a collegestudent that's really just
trying to make sense of what'snext in life.

(11:42):
I would urge him to just simplyprocess what is the next step
that God is urging me to takeand how can I take it faithfully
, in the sense of okay, what'sthe next step?
Now?
How do I prepare myself forthat next step?
What do I need to study?
What do I need to read?
How do I need to train?
What people do I need tosurround myself with?
What counselors, mentors,coaches, disciple makers do I

(12:04):
need to surround myself with inorder to take that next step?
And what you find is that, ifyou just keep being obedient to
take the next steps that God isgiving you, god has a way of
orchestrating things and puttingus in places that we never,
ever imagined that we would be.
I never imagined that in 2025,I would be leading Mission

(12:25):
Mississippi.
That wasn't on the radar rightIn 2015, in 2010, 2005,.
That was not on the radar, butit was on God's radar and so my
On the foundation of the world,before the foundation of the
world.
He had planned these good worksfor me, and so it was about
just simply taking the steps,the next steps, and just walking
in obedience, preparing forthat moment that God placed me

(12:49):
in, and then allow him toorchestrate and order the rest
of those steps.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
You know, sometimes I feel like if I was just because
this is just more than foryoung folk, this is for everyone
.
That's the key, that weunderstand that the next steps
for me have been sometime in thepast.
The next step was just likesomebody invite me somewhere or
I just want to go to somethingor just be there.

(13:14):
I've shown up at meetings andpeople come to me while I'm in
the meeting and say this is whatGod is saying for me to tell
you, and things like that.
So sometimes it's just showingup, showing up being faithful.
As Dolphins would say, juststay at the table.
Yes, just stay in theconversation.
Keep the conversation going andyou know, in my mind the next

(13:38):
step may happen and you lookback and say I've already taken
the step that I needed to take.
And sometimes I think weoveranalyze it, we overinterpret
it.
We're looking for these power,as you say, the miraculous,
these powerful moments when, infact, if I just show up at the
Bible study, there it is, and bea part of the Bible study.
There it is.

(13:59):
And somebody may give a word inthe Bible study talking to
someone else, yep, and all of asudden it hits you between the
eyes of what you do next, and soI think sometimes we look at
the great events and themiraculous and you know,
sometime I feel like this isthat people have been married

(14:21):
for a long time and people havecome up to me what's the secret
to a long, loving, lastingmarriage?
Yes.
And the people you're inquiringwith will say well, we never had
an argument out of 40 years andI'm thinking that goes my hope
Right, we know Right.
And so sometimes you get these.

(14:44):
We don't talk about stuff, butpeople don't explain that to you
, yeah, and so they say thesecret is to do this or do that,
but in actuality it's justtrusting and being faithful to
do.
I had someone tell me let'sjust do what you know to do
until you find out what you donext.
Yeah, you say that and peoplego what?

(15:05):
Yeah, just do what you know todo.
Yeah, I'm looking for God.
You know God, speak to me aboutthis or what my purpose and
whatever.
So sometimes we just need tojust do what we know to do.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, we like to interpret the Christian life
through adrenaline rushes, youknow.
And so we see these massiveevents, massive concerts,
massive conferences andgatherings and we say, oh, okay,
well, this is what theChristian life is, but really
the Christian life is everythingthat happens after that.
It's not the adrenaline rushmoments that define the
Christian life, it's just thosesteady heartbeat moments.

(15:38):
I've heard it once said it'sthe steady heartbeat moments
that define the Christian life.
So oftentimes you'll have ayoung man, young woman, you know
, trying to figure out what theywant to do with their lives for
Jesus and they're like, hey, soyou know, I think I've been to
this conference and I think I'msupposed to be a preacher, like
the preacher I saw on stage, orI think I'm supposed to be a
missionary, you know, to Africaand all of these different

(16:02):
things, and one of the typicallythe counsel that I give is
that's great, but the church hasbeen asking for some folks to
serve in the nursery and yourname has it.
Well, I just opened the doors onSunday morning Put the key in
the lock, unlock it, yeah, thechurch has been begging for
people to open up or to do alittle greeting in the mornings,

(16:26):
or to serve in the nursery, orto serve the kids, the
elementary kids.
Why don't you just start rightthere, rather than paralyzing
yourself waiting for all thesebig moments, why don't you start
in the steady heartbeat ofservice?

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, a key moment for me and I'm sure it was for
you.
Steady heartbeat of serviceyeah, A key moment for me and
I'm sure it was for you.
But what really defines it fromscripture for me is that in
Mark, Jesus says come, follow me, yes, and I will make you
disciples.
Yes, I will make you fishers ofmen yes.
And so for me it's like if Ijust follow him, he'll tell me

(17:04):
what to do.
Yes, but I want to knoweverything's going to happen.
God just wanted to be the Godin the middle.
Yes, so my challenge to folksis that if God tells you
everything that you desire andyou know, you probably won't
take the next step.
Yes, I'm good God, because Goddescribes everything that's
going to happen between here andthe end.
So I just wanted to flesh thatout just a little bit.

(17:25):
As you were giving your storyand testimony, I just want to
flesh that out about especiallylike for elementary and high
school students and collegestudents.
We spend a lot of time I didand I noticed sometimes, when
students be asking me questions,they're spending a lot of time
trying to get to somewhere thatprobably would take them, trying
to get to somewhere thatprobably would take them years

(17:47):
to get there, when they couldjust take one step at a time.
Thank you for unfolding that alittle bit more.
Go ahead with your story.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Amen, yeah.
So, like I said, I tried mybest to run away from that call.
The Lord eventually just put mein places and spaces where I
found myself immersed in thatcall, and so I began to spend
more time in pool pits andpreaching and articulating the

(18:13):
word of God.
While that was happening, I wasalso at the Corps of Engineers
and serving and working there,like I said, started as a
systems engineer and moved fromthat to strategic planning and
from that to serving as thechief of IT and then, from there
, chief of cybersecurity.
All these different leadershiproles and opportunities.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
While you were doing that, what was in your mind,
what was your thought processdoing that time?
You were looking to be chief ofsomething or what was going on
from a career perspective.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
What's interesting about that, nettie, is that
there was a time very early onwhere I was, there was a time
very early on where I wasexpecting to climb the ladder
and be exactly in those seats.
And then, as I began to move andtransition more and more into
ministry and what the Lord wascalling me in that space, I

(19:00):
began to desire and yearn forthat less.
And yet what was happening overthere I didn't realize it, but
God was using that asopportunities and preparation
for the next season that he wasleading me into.
While I was at the Corp ofEngineers, the chief of

(19:29):
cybersecurity, when that job wasmade available and open and
people began to apply for it, Ididn't because I said to myself
I'm good where I am, god hasblessed me tremendously and I
need to be free and available toserve the church and serve in
ministry the way he's called meto serve.
And it wasn't until I wasapproached by several people
that said well, we noticed yourname is not in the hat and we

(19:51):
feel like your name needs to bein the hat and we would like for
you to pray for it, because weknow you're a praying man.
So we would like for you to goback home and talk to your wife,
and y'all pray about this,because we feel like you need to
be in the running.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
That was amazing.
Every time somebody told me, Itold them I'm good where I am,
and they said will you prayabout it At the end of that
prayer time, sure enough, godwas calling me.
It's like.
I don't want to pray, because Iknow what the answer is going
to be.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
And so the last job that I left, it was a result of
people saying why don't you prayto see if maybe the Lord has
other things in mind?
And so, and he did, and I thinkit was part of the preparation
for the role that I'm in now,because the role that I'm in now
I can definitely see theexperiences that I took away

(20:43):
from Erdick or the Corbidgineers.
I could definitely see thoseexperiences playing out in what
I'm doing now for MissionMississippi and so, yeah, that's
a little bit of my background,a little bit of my story, but
again, when I look at the thread, when I look at the string that
ties it all together, I seeGod's hand all over it.

(21:05):
I, I did not plan, I did notplan these steps in advance.
And I had plans, you know, andI have.
You know, I was quote, I guessdisciplined as much as you can
be as a 21, 22 year old in termsof trying to lay out
methodically what you want to doand what steps you got to take.
But even with all of thatplanning, god had other plans in
mind and I still ended upfinding myself on a road that I

(21:29):
never dreamed I would be on.
But a lot of that just had todo with just ordinary obedience,
just taking one step at a time.
I tell people all the time,nettie, that the Lord leads us
not with streetlights, he leadsus with spotlights, with
flashlights.
When we read that the word is alight to my path, a lamp into

(21:49):
my feet, we think that it's abig old streetlight that just
clearly lays the path out foryou.
We envision it like the lightsthat we see on Interstate 20 or
Interstate 55 when we're drivingthrough the city.
And the reality is, like yousaid earlier, that if the Lord
gave us that much, we would justmess it up.
And so the Lord leads us withflashlights.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
God fixed it for the Lord because he don't know what
he's doing.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
Let me fix this, Lord .
So the Lord leads us withflashlights, giving us just a
little bit of his One day at atime.
His perfect picture man, a Oneday at a time, his perfect
picture man.
A little bit of that picture, alittle bit of that wheel, for
us just to walk in thatobedience daily.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
So what about your family?
How do they feel about all thisI got?

Speaker 4 (22:33):
a beautiful bride who is a PhD student and as wise as
she is beautiful, and we'vebeen married 22 years.
In November It'll be 22 years.
So incredible, woman of God,loves Jesus, loves her family.
So much of what I am as a Wayto make no deposits, man, oh man

(22:55):
.
Hey, listen, I'm trying, I'mtrying.
But so much of what I am as athinker and as a leader I
attribute and credit to my wifebecause she's a thinker and
whereas my thinking used to bevery logical and technical, it

(23:16):
has over the years transitionedsignificantly towards more heart
and emotion.
And a lot of that transition Ican attribute to my wife because
she again is an incredible,incredible, deep thinker as it
relates to matters of the heartand she's taught me how to look
deeply into the heart.
And so I got a beautiful wifeagain, a 22 years Candy Crawford

(23:38):
.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
But then that meet the requirements what Jesus says
, where you become one.

Speaker 4 (23:42):
Yes, 100%, 100% and the best marriages.
Man, you learn, you grant gracein the weaknesses but you glean
in the strengths and you growtogether in those strengths that
each one of you brings to thetable.
So I can certainly thank Godbecause I've seen some of that
in our lives.
I got two boys, one BJ he's my20 year old going into his

(24:06):
junior year at MississippiCollege and we're excited to see
his growth and what God isdoing in his life.
Prayerfully he'll be.
He's looking to go into lawschool, but right now he's a
history pre-law major.
So he's he's at work in thatregard.
I got a 15 year old I say 15year old, it probably.
He'll probably be 15 at thetime of this recording, possibly

(24:27):
because it's late August hisbirthday so at the time that
this recording is released hecould be 15.
But yeah, I got a 14-year-oldgoing on 15.
His name is Elijah and he's anincredible young man as well,
going into his junior season ofstudies in high school.
He's actually, I think,technically a sophomore but got

(24:51):
a bunch of junior classesbecause he's a pretty sharp kid.
So we're proud of them andthey're doing great.
Trying to make sure I don'toverwhelm them with preacher,
kid stuff, so trying to let thembe.
Oh, you got plenty of helpthere, so trying to let them be.
Oh, you got plenty of helpthere, so trying to let them be.
You know, just normal kids thatare growing in the grace and

(25:12):
mercy of Christ and learningwhat it means to follow Jesus on
their own accord and not on thecoattails of their parents.
So they're figuring things outfor themselves and we're just
trying to lead and guide them asthe Lord would grant grace.
But yeah, I got a good familyman.
I praise God for them.

Speaker 5 (25:31):
Hey, my name is Kyle Reno, senior pastor at
Crossgates Baptist Church.
Here's a defining moment fromthis last Sunday.
The witnesses are telling usthis morning hear me now, it's
worth it.
I'm going to end today and Ibelieve in a way that's going to
help you hear the story offaith from those that have went
before us.
But before we even think aboutrunning our race today, I wonder

(25:52):
if we'd be willing to do whatthe second part of verse one
says.
Therefore, since we'resurrounded by so great a cloud
of witnesses, let us also layaside every weight and sin that
clings so closely.
Many of us hear me now many ofus are trying to run our race in
life, carrying too much weight.
That's not a physicalindictment okay, hold on, all

(26:14):
right.
But many of us are trying torun our faith race.
But we're still carrying weightfrom previous seasons.
To become a follower of JesusChrist hear me now and to truly
run your race well, means thatwe're gonna have to have moments
of unpacking.

(26:34):
I love fresh seasons becausefresh seasons gives us moments
to evaluate and helps us to cometo decisions about what we're
gonna carry into this nextseason of life.
Some of us need moments that weunpack the pain.
Some of us need moments that wehave breakthroughs in our own
personal struggle with sin.
I got good news for us thismorning Eyes for a second.
Jesus was crucified so that wecould run free.

(26:55):
Jesus was crucified so that wecould run forgiven.
Hey, thank you for taking sometime to listen to that defining
moment from this last week.
If you'd like to listen to thesermon in its entirety, you can
go to crossgatesorg and we wouldlove to have you visit with us
any week on any of our Sundayexperiences or our midweek

(27:17):
opportunities.
I'd encourage you this week totake some time and really think
about what moments right now aredefining your destination.
God has more in store for you.
Hope to see you soon.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah.
So as we think about this thingof being a pastor and president
of Mission Mississippi, talkabout the transition, of what
led your heart to this thing.
You know, Mission Mississippiis all about reconciliation in
the body of Christ and livingout the reconciliation that
Jesus built.
You know, we've beenchallenging Christians for a

(27:51):
long time now to live out thereconciliation.
So how did you get from chiefof staff for cyberspace?

Speaker 4 (27:57):
Yeah, cybersecurity chief.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Cybersecurity chief to pastor, to now president, and
all of that.
You know city life.
How did all of that segue?
And all of that, you know citylife.
How did that, all of that segue?

Speaker 4 (28:09):
in all of that, yeah, yeah, well, my, you know my
heart.
This is defining moments.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Yes, and there are there are several of them as it
relates to this journey, but myheart has always been towards
reconciliation.
I can see again talking aboutthat thread and God's
fingerprint over your life.
I can see that fingerprint.
Now, as I look back, I can seeit very early on.
I've always been in diversespaces.
God placed me in diverse spacesearly.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
You know, I hear people say that I've been.
You know, I've been this always.
When you say I've been indiverse spaces.
Always unfold it just a littlebit.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, absolutely, starting back all the way back
to elementary, my parents had meat a Catholic school, catholic
elementary school, and weweren't Catholic.
You know, diversity may not bea diversity in terms of class

(29:09):
and color.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
We were working class family, obviously
African-American you can see mydark skin and figure that out
but I was in a it's alwaysinteresting to me when
African-American folks we werejust a working class folks I'm
like is there another class forAfrican-Americans?
When I was coming up, you knowyou were trying to get to the
working class, but go ahead, I'msorry.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
Yeah, but yeah and except.
I was immersed in a schoolwhere there was a lot of middle
to upper class, even wealthystudents of middle to upper
class, even wealthy students.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
There was.
So you went some of the folksfrom hard times to Rich and
famous?

Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and even, and even
in you know color ispredominantly white school with
a smattering of African-American, black and brown folks in the
mix and Asian folks in the mix,but predominantly white.
But I would leave that schoolevery day and I would go back to

(30:13):
the Heights and HamiltonHeights.
Go back to the Heights, um andHamilton Heights.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
And it was, you know, my, my circle there was
predominantly African-American.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
And so in Cleveland, no, no uh.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Vicksburg, mississippi, vicksburg you said
the Heights man.
What Heights?

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Hamilton Heights.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Hamilton Heights.
There's a Hamilton Heights inCleveland, Ohio.
No, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
And so and so, yeah, there was, there was a
predominantly black uh circle,predominantly black circle of
influence in my neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
It was predominantly black there, in Cleveland too.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
Yeah, and of course even Hamilton Heights had its
own diversity because of the waythe flooding was.
So you had like an area of theneighborhood that was flood
zoned out and that had aparticular class and color, and
then you had an area of theneighborhood that wasn't flood
zoned out so had a particularclass and color, and then you
had an area of the neighborhoodthat wasn't flood zoned out so
it had a particular classneighborhood.
So I have some diversity evenin that experience.

(31:03):
So I was going to school indiverse context, I was coming
back home in diverse context.
Obviously that kind ofdiversity went with me.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Even in an all black situation, you had diversity.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Absolutely, absolutely, and it wasn't even
all black in Hamilton Heights.
Of course, it becameincreasingly black, but early on
it was very much a mixedenvironment as it relates to
class, as it relates to colorand, like I said, that in and of
itself I learned some things,even though my circle was
predominantly black theneighborhood was not at that

(31:34):
time and so there was a mixturethere.
There was a diversity in myschool, there was a diversity in
my home.
There was a diversity in theexperiences as I went to college
.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
And so, all alone, god had his fingerprint in
preparing me.
You're just messing folks upwith this diversity in the home,
diversity in the streets,diversity in the community and
diverse in school, and all this,typically, when people find
themselves in the home, theytypically find that people just
assume that everybody in thehome is the same.
Yeah, race class, whatever thediversity you're referring to is

(32:11):
.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, man, and that goes a
little bit to my story too.
I'll definitely get to that injust a second.
But you know all the way upthrough.
You know ministry.
So I'm in ministry now, orrather I'm filling the tug into
ministry and I'm at this.
I'm at college, mississippiState University, and I'm
getting invited to thepredominantly white campus

(32:33):
ministries and the predominantlyblack campus ministries, white
campus ministries and thepredominantly black campus
ministries.
And there's one evening wherewe're hosting this festival and
I'm watching how it's thepredominantly white campus
ministries night to host and I'mwatching how the predominantly
black students are engaging andthey're just kind of very

(32:55):
uncomfortable, right.
And then vice versa, when youswap them and put them in
different audiences, and thosemoments resonated with me Like
why is it that it feels likewe're so uncomfortable together
when we're one, when we're thebody of Christ?
It was those kinds of momentsthat kind of lingered with me
and stayed with me as I fastforward into ministry as an

(33:15):
adult, right.
And there was a season where Iwas preaching through the gospel
of John, because by now I'mpreaching every other Sunday at
this church that I'm serving atin Tulu, louisiana, and we're
preaching through the gospel ofJohn.
And we happen to work our waythrough the gospel of John,
chapter 17, where Jesus prayshis high priestly prayer.

(33:38):
He prays for his relationshipwith his father.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
That's Jesus' real prayer.
I call it.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
Amen, amen.
So he prays for hisrelationship with his father, he
prays for the relationship ofthe disciples back to him and
his father, and then he praysfor us John 17, verses 20
through 23.
Father, I pray that they be oneas you and I are one.
I pray that they walk in thatoneness in order that the world

(34:04):
may know that you love them asyou love me, and that you sent
me and that resonated with me inways that it had never
resonated with me before.
In the sense of God, this is adefense and all God, this is an
apologetic for your gospel.
Oneness is that's what Jesus issaying that if we walk in

(34:25):
oneness, the world will see andknow that you love us and that
you sent your son.
And I begin to pray and pursueLord.
If that's what Jesus prayed for, then I want to see it right,
not just in a theoretical sense.
Yes, I know we are the body ofChrist, we are one in Christ,
but I want us to actually showit.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
One in Christ, but we got separate places in the room
.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I want us to display it.
I want us to display it, lord,and I want that display to start
in me, and so that set off, orset me on a journey, so to speak
where I began.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
So John 17 was really a defining moment it was a
defining moment.
It was an anchor in my life.
That was your preaching.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yes, yes, wow.
And it was in the midst of thatstudy where I just saw John 17
with new eyes and new passionand new purpose, and it set me
on a trajectory where,eventually, we ended up
launching, in 2016, from ourhouse, a church called City
Light Church, and it was achurch that we set out from the
beginning to be intentionallymulti-ethnic.

(35:29):
We sold our house that was CityLight Church.
We were living in the county ofVicksburg, mississippi.
We sold our house with theintentional desire to move into
the heart of the city, becausein the heart of the city is
where I like to call all of thecultural collision happens.
In the heart of the city, theclasses collide In the heart of

(35:52):
the city.
Color collides In the heart ofthe city, culture collides where
, if you're on one side of ClayStreet, you're getting one
experience, you're on the otherside of Clay Street, you're
getting another experience.
You go too far down WashingtonStreet, you're getting one
experience, and then you comeback the other way, on
Washington Street, you'regetting another experience.
It was there where all thecollision was happening, and so
we said hey, me and my wifeprayed about it, thought deeply

(36:15):
about it, felt like the Lord wasleading us and said let's go
back.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Collision versus connection.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
Absolutely.
Let's go back, let's go backinto the heart of the city,
where all of these cultures andclasses are colliding, and let's
see if the Lord would do agospel work to bring people
across these different culturesand classes and colors, to bring
them together, differentcultures and classes and colors
to bring them together.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
So City Light was specifically purposely planted
in the heart of the city tochange collisions into
connection with the community.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
There you go, there you go, and so, yeah, we
launched in 2016 from our house.
Eventually, we started hostingSunday morning services in 2017.
We moved into our space in 2021.
God has been faithful andblessing.
We're probably about 60% white,40% black and brown church in
terms of the demographics, as itrelates to color, but even

(37:08):
within that, there's all sortsof different dynamics as it
relates to class, as it relatesto experiences.
Our white brothers and sistersare not monolithic.
They're not all the same.
Neither are our and sisters arenot monolithic.
They're not all the same.
Neither are our black and brownbrothers and sisters.
They're not monolithic.
They're not all the same.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
They bring different experiences Is that any culture,
color class of folks that'smonolithic, they're not.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
That's one of the terrible mistakes that we make
is we look at one and we thinkthat we figured out everybody.
You know, we figured outeverybody.
We do that with so manysubjects.
Nanny, If I met one Republican,I think I met them all.
If I met one Democrat, I thinkI met them all.
If I met one Black man, I thinkI met them all.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
None of us are monolithic.
We are wonderfully madeaccording to the Psalms.
So you just couldn't be abroker and agent for your
culture and your color.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Absolutely no, no, no .
I can certainly know, you seethat, with Esther standing in
the gap for her people in thebook of Esther.
So you certainly can representa group of people, but you
yourself can't define them.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
It's too complex.
When you say represent, unfoldit just a little bit.
In the book of Esther, it talksabout representing.
She was standing in the gap forthe Jews and she was a person
for such a time as this.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I think you know, even youknow going going to, you know
going into the 50s and 60s.
You see those moments wherewhere Dr King stood in that kind
of capacity in terms ofrepresenting a group of people
and their plights and theirsuffering, and standing in the
gap and serving as a voice and amouthpiece, a prophetic voice

(38:41):
for the moment, to speak forpeople I think the Lord appoints
times and seasons for people todo that Serve as a bridge,
absolutely, one hundred percent.
I mean you know WE talented10th, those that God will raise
up amongst a group of peoplewith natural born talent and
gifting, who hold theresponsibility to ensure that

(39:05):
those people, from theirgrouping, their background,
their communities, theirneighborhoods, they hold a
responsibility to make sure thatthey can serve as leaders to
help bring those people along aswell.
You know, one of the mistakesthat we make as it relates to
thinking about our place in lifeis that God will sometimes gift

(39:28):
us and when he gifts us we'llsay, well, I made a netting, so
you just need to figure it outand make it on your own.
Not recognizing that part of thereason God gifted you is so
that you would help Nettie, whomight not have the same gifting.

(39:50):
And so I think God appoints,like he did with Esther, and
puts her in places by hissovereign, sovereign grace, king
, with his eloquence, you know,and charisma.
Puts him in certain places byhis sovereign grace.
And then there are othersthroughout history who have been
given similar responsibilities.
He puts them in place in orderthat they would own the

(40:11):
responsibility of helping those,helping those that that are
behind them come along as well.
And so I feel like, yeah, sure,that is something that is
reasonable when you think aboutdifferent groups and cultures
and colors.
But even with that said, Icannot serve as a true and full

(40:32):
representation of everythingthat that culture and group
happens to be, because it's toodynamic, it's too complex, it's
a tapestry that has all sorts ofintricacies and all sorts of
beauty that's interwoven in it,and so each person brings their
own picture and depiction ofbeauty.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
And that's the DNA of every human being.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
Absolutely that when.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
God designed us.
He had all this stuff in man100% as it relates to connecting
with one another and so forth.
You know, brian, we have, we'vehad and continue to have
opportunities where we're inspaces and places where we can
change attitudes and actions ofother folks or educate folks as

(41:18):
it relates to that.
So often, you know, we hearabout this person coming out of
the ghetto, coming out of thecounty or whatever bad situation
.
They find themselves, evencoming out of prison, and they
become very popular or famous orwhatever it is, and with that

(41:38):
people will say you know well,you know what's the problem with
other black folks or Hispanicor even white folks.
What's the problem with them?
Why don't they do the same?
If that person can do it, whydon't you know?
Help us not make that mistake.
In trying to put one person up,what they see is what they'll be
and those kinds of things.

(41:59):
I understand there's a logicalreason for all of those things,
but also we make somecategorically mistakes of saying
things that we shouldn't say asit relates to people that
achieve as you did describe withus and so forth.
So I unfold that just a littlebit and talk about how that

(42:19):
works in terms of ministry andhow we can help bring the body
of Christ along without puttingpeople in awkward situations Not
awkward situations, but insituations where that may not be
their calling, that may not bewhat God has gifted them, that
may not be what God wants themto be Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah, I like to think about it, Nettie.
I talk about you talk about.
There's this big dialogue anddiscussion and debate and
sometimes just flatter argumentover issues of privilege.
I like to talk about it, thisidea of privilege, at some point
.
I call it weighted advantages.
You know that there's a realityof weighted advantage that we

(43:00):
all must understand that playsout in life and what I mean by
that is that you know, I grew upwith two parents in the house.
That's a weighted, that's partof my, my scored advantage, so
to speak.
There are a lot of people thatdon't grow up with two parents
in the house.
My father early on was arrestedand he ended up pleading out.

(43:25):
It was in prison where he foundthe Lord Jesus Christ.
That changed the trajectory ofhis life and in many ways
possibly God was using that toalter the trajectory of his
entire lineage.
That came, that followed behindhim.
That in and of itself was partof my weighted advantages,
because I could not, I couldhave not had that father that
came back home, you know, in atotally different mindset,

(43:47):
training me and teaching me inthe things of God and you know
there's some naysayers out theresaying well, you know, I've
seen kids that have two parenthome and they're worse off than
the single parent home 100%,100%, so, so.
So again, active engaged father,right, yeah, pointing me to the
things of the Lord.
So not just simply a presentfather in the house, but fully

(44:09):
present in my life.
That's, that's an advantage.
Fully present in your life.
Repeat that Fully present in mylife.
Okay, so that's an advantage.
The fact that I had two parentsthat were fully present, that's
an advantage.
The fact that, man, I had a giftfor math early on.
I just knew how to putequations together and figure
them out, so I didn't have topay attention in class.
I could fall asleep in classover and over and over again,

(44:32):
until the teacher said Brian,listen, I was tired of waking
you up and but I was going tokeep on doing it.
But then I got your score fromyour first test and you did
pretty good.
So I'm not going to wake you upanymore.
You just do whatever you wantto do on that, and so that
wasn't something that everybodyhad the opportunity to do.
Now, that doesn't mean that Iwas great in English, it doesn't
mean that I was great in allthese other classes, but I had

(44:54):
that and I just stay wide awakein math and the teacher said you
might well go to sleep.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Come to school at times like really.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
But see, that was part of the weighted advantages.
So here's my point, nettie, isthat there was a collection of
different graces that wereafforded to me that made
available some opportunities.
It wasn't just simply me, right, it was a collection of.
It was the people that investedin me.
It was the pastor that spent.
It was the pastor of the churchwho had a full investment in me

(45:29):
and who believed in giving thestudents that was making good
grades, believed in giving themmoney, and so he motivated us to
actually go out and get goodgrades, and so it was that
passion that was so invested andinvolved in my life.
And so it's all these littlepieces in the story.
There's an artist by the name ofPropaganda, a Christian artist

(45:49):
I used to listen to years ago.
He had this song, this albumcalled Crimson Chord, and he
talks about all the differentfingerprints along the way the
fingerprint of the Lord, thecrimson cord, the cord that runs
through your life.
The coaches that invested inyou when some coaches would have
quit on you.
The pastor that you had thatyou want to ignore but had a

(46:11):
profound impact on your life.
The dad or the mother or theuncle or the godfather all these
different things.
They play into your cumulativeweighted advantage, right.
And so it's more than justsimply class, even though class
plays a role in it.
It's more than simply whetheror not you're the predominant
culture in the culture thatyou're in, even though that

(46:33):
plays a role in it.
But it's all these other littlesmall imprints that take shape
to make a person who they are.
And so a lot of times we'll say,well, why can't you just do it
like Nettie did?
Well, nettie was an all-startrack athlete and so he got
scholarships that I would havenever got right, and so he got

(46:55):
scholarships that I would havenever got.
Or he was raised to understandthis particular subject in a way
that I never understood it.
And so understanding here.
Here's what I tell people allthe time, nettie, about this.
There has to be enough humilityin us where we see God's
fingerprint that that brought usto the place that we are.

(47:17):
Because what humility does ishumility recognizes.
I didn't get here by myself.
And if humility can recognizethat I didn't get here by myself
, then it increases my sense ofresponsibility to ensure that
other people get here as well,when I fool myself into thinking

(47:37):
that I'm in the place that I'min solely based on my own doing,
then it hardens my hearttowards the people that aren't
in the place that I'm in, ifthat makes sense.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Absolutely man, your charm and charisma didn't get
you here.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
It's humility that drives us to say hey man, I got
to help Nettie, get here, I gotto help this person, get here,
that person, get here, because Iknow that I am only here by the
grace of God.
That's part of the urgency orthe urging

Speaker 3 (48:12):
or anointing or whatever the word is.
We all got all these words forChristian suede ease and all
that, but that is part of whatwas in you, to bring you to the
point that City Light was goingto be a change agent in the city
.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Yeah, absolutely, as it relates to all the above, or
just race, race and everything,I mean, we have a value.
We have a couple of values Onethat embodies the component
around our pursuit of oneness inthe body of Christ, and that's
universal unity, which is wedesire to be a place where
people from all walks of life,shades and colors, class and

(48:49):
culture can come and find home.
We believe that.
We believe that really.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
So what would make City Light stand above and out?
Because every church in somesense has part of it in their
motto, in their vision, in theirmission.
Some kind of way to have thatin there.
Sure, but it always rise outthat people understand that.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Yeah, we say everybody has to come to City
Light and sacrifice something,has to come to City Light and
sacrifice something, and what wemean by that is that in a
typical Sunday morning service,everybody's going to be a little
uncomfortable by the time theservice is over.
Everybody will have experiencedsome discomfort because we're
going to sing worship songs thatdo not connect.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
So that wouldn't be a sign in front of your church
that said come and becomfortable.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
It's definitely not going to be that Because we want
to set the temperature in theroom so that everybody expects
to be a little uncomfortable,everybody expects to get to a
song and say, oh okay, Iwouldn't play that one in my car
, but all right, my brother,over here it looks like they're
enjoying Jesus with this, so I'mgoing to enjoy Jesus with them.
That's what we mean byuniversal unity in terms of

(49:55):
everybody, should you know wetalk about you know, basically,
the journey, the human journey,is a journey back home.
You know, the Garden of Edenwas home, present, present and
fully present with God, and theserpent disrupted that unity and
we were cast out of the garden,and the whole story is us

(50:16):
returning back home, and so wewant people to find a sense of
that when they come to CityLight.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
That's great.
You know.
You talk about that universal,universal unity, yeah, but when
it comes to restaurants, we havethat right.
People leave church.
Man, I feel like Chinese today.
Oh, no man, we need to get somesoul food.
You're within the family.
You got to have a discussion onwhich one of the places you're

(50:42):
going to go.
Somebody's going to want pizza,somebody's going to want
Italian, somebody's going towant this, that and the other,
and we can embrace that, becauseif we would go many times,
maybe we're just hungry, I don'tknow.
Somebody said we're just goingto go to the Chinese place and
you're really not for Chinese.
But man, if we're going to eat,let's go.
Yes, why can't we have that onSunday?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
morning, my goodness.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Not only on Sunday morning.
Why can't we go forward fromSunday morning and embrace that
universal unity, my goodness, asit relates to food.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
Man I desire and yearn to see so much.
Obviously, revelation 5,revelation 7, those are already
not yet, or not yet passages inthe already not yet kingdom of
God.
Those are passages that weglimpse out into the heavens,
where he says I see tribes andtongues and nations all
surrounding the throne, in theirtribes, tongues, and know
tribes and tongues and nationsall surrounding the throne, you

(51:33):
know, in their tribes, tonguesand nations worshiping the Lamb
of God.
But I feel like, in many ways,the Lord desires that we would
see that in our day, especiallywhen we have all the tribes,
tongues and nations on our backdoor, on our front doorstep, and
so we should be pursuing thatin ways that are intentional,

(51:54):
that are grace-filled and thatare sacrificial.
And then, lastly, nettie, youknow, even get back to the point
that you made about you knowour heart for bringing people up
.
You know we have a value that wecall emptying empowerment,
which is the idea that Christemptied himself.
That was the humility of Christ, according to Philippians 2,

(52:15):
that Paul urges us to let thismind be in us.
That was in Christ Jesus, thekind of humility that empties
ourselves in order to see thepeople of God be empowered
through his emptying, and so weencourage people to live a life
of humility that follows theexample of Christ, by emptying
ourselves of power, in the senseof the knowledge that we have,

(52:39):
the people that we know, thepossessions and the privileges
and the positions that we havein life, to see others rise and
come alongside us.
So, yeah, that's some of thethings that we're trying to
pursue.
By God's grace, Got a long wayto go.
Got a lot of work to do.
Of course, we'll never be thereuntil he comes back, but it's

(53:00):
our heart's cry, all right.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Now we've gotten from the engineers to City Light, so
let's get to MissionMississippi.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Let's do it.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Let's go to the Mission Mississippi story of the
defining moment fromengineering to city life.
And now to Mission Mississippi.
How do those three kind ofconvene or converge.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Yeah Well, mission Mississippi is a result of a
desire to continue in thatreconciliation passion that the
Lord birthed in me from thatJohn 17 passage and so, um, the
Lord was really moving on myheart and my, my wife's heart
that, hey, I think he's calling.
I think he's calling me intothis reconciliation work full

(53:42):
time.
And we didn't know what thatlooked like.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
but um, the Lord did From your previous story.
We never know what that lookslike, Right, but the Lord did If
we did we would fix it.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
But the Lord did.
And so that's how I ended upinvolved with a man by the name
of Nettie Winters and gotconnected to a group of pastors
in Vicksburg that was MissionMississippi Vicksburg Collective
, and I began to meet with themand grow with them.
I began to meet with you andgrow with you, and it was there

(54:18):
eventually, down that road, thatyou shared your succession plan
and the board was looking for anew person to succeed you and
continue to, you know, tocontinue the traditions and
stand on the shoulders.
And so there it was, after muchprayer and contemplation and

(54:40):
counseling with good, trustedadvisors, that me and my wife
said maybe this is, maybe thisis what the Lord is calling us
to.
And so we put our name in thehat and the board selected us,
and so again didn't start outsaying, hey, mission Mississippi
is where we need to go, startedout saying that ultimately, we
just need to make a transitionand we feel like the Lord is

(55:04):
calling us more into this work,more into this space.
But we don't know what thatlooks like, but, lord, we're
making ourselves available toyou.
And then the Lord began tounfold what that looked like,
and so that's how we ended up atMission Mississippi in January
23rd of this past month.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
But anyway, we're here now Talk a little bit about
the segue from 23 to 25 andwhat's going on at the current
time for Michigan, mississippi,and how that history and stuff

(55:44):
ties together.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know we are smart enough to
realize that there's a lot ofgood history and good work that
has preceded us.
And we're smart enough andhumble enough at this point to
understand that you don't undo,that you don't erase, that, you
build on it.
And so we've been trying, byGod's grace, to make two degree

(56:08):
shifts and, just along the way,look at the current moment that
we're in, the current culture,that we're in the current
historical moment that we're inas a state and as a country, and
figure out how can MissionMississippi adjust to be a part
of that moment and to providemaximum impact in that moment.
So one of the things that we'refocused on really deeply in

(56:29):
this particular season anditeration of the organization
and ministry is we're thinking alot about coaching people well
in relationships.
We have a class, a curriculum,if you will, that we call
Cultivating HealthyRelationships Across Dividing
Lines.
It is a curriculum that we useboth at local universities Belle

(56:49):
Haven, mississippi College.
We use it with local businessesand churches.
We also host what we call aConnection Friday monthly
gathering.
That happens every third Fridayof the month and during that
time, and also in our localmovements, because we're
spending time in Meridianworking through this content.
We're spending time inGreenville working through this

(57:11):
content.
We hope to also implementsimilar meetings in Greenwood
and Tupelo and Vicksburg and inother places.
But what we-.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Even though you haven't implemented those
curricula per se, the ongoingwork is going on in other
communities.
Oh yeah, absolutely 100%, 100%.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
But in terms of talking about the coaching piece
, here's what we've been reallykeyed in on is that a lot of
people, when they think aboutreconciliation work, they think
about reconciliation work in thesame way that Daniel LaRusso
and the Karate Kid thought aboutkarate.
And here's what I mean DanielLaRusso, when he got beat up by

(57:48):
all his high school bullies andKarate Kid, he met a man by the
name of Mr Miyagi and he said MrMiyagi, teach me karate.
I've seen you do it and you'refantastic at it.
Please teach me.
Mr Miyagi said okay, I'll teachyou.
And then the next day, danielshows up at Mr Miyagi's house.
He says hey, I need you topaint some fences.
Okay, well, I guess I'll paintyour fence just to be nice, but

(58:09):
I need you to teach me karate.
Okay, yeah, we're going to getthere.
And so Daniel paints all of hisfences.
Well, the next time, the nextweek, he shows up and Mr Miyagi
said I'm glad you showed up tolearn some karate.
I need you to sand all thefloors on my decks around this
property.
Okay, I'll be nice and do thisagain, but I'm hoping we're
going to learn karate.
Next week he shows up I needyou to paint my house and then

(58:33):
the final week, after being hereall this time, I need you to
wax all my cars.
Daniel's son, finally, is fed upbecause he's waxed cars, paint
fences, paint houses, sandfloors.
Man, when are you going to showme karate?
And then that's when Mr Miyagisays show me wax on wax off, and
then he tries to punch him, butthe wax on wax off is a defense

(58:55):
.
Show me paint the fence hetries to punch him, but the
paint, the fence is a defense.
Show me sand the floor, and hetries to kick him, and it's a
defense.
And what Daniel learns is thatall along he was learning karate
.
It was just fundamentals.
And here's what happens in raceconversations, here's what
happens in politicalconversations, denominational

(59:16):
conversations, is that we enterinto all of those conversations
with no fundamentals in how todo relationship and so they go
wrong.
And we think that they go wrongbecause of the politics.
We think that they go wrongbecause of the race.
We think they go wrong becauseof the ethnicity, the culture.
They go wrong because we don'tknow how to do relationship well
.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
And all this time I thought you just go wrong,
because I'm right and you'rewrong.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
Exactly, that's precisely the point, and so we
spend a lot of time right now inthat, cultivating healthy
relationships across dividinglines really diving deeper, so I
should be one of your meetings.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I got to paint your fence.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Yep Diving deeper into the nuts and bolts of
relationships, with the hopethat we will actually continue
to grow and how to navigate thehard discussions as we grow in
understanding how to dorelationship well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
All right, take about three minutes, yeah, and tell
us how we can connect withMission Mississippi.
I know we spent a lot of timeon your story and all of that,
which is, I guess, sending theflow and paying the fence and
all of that.
So help us understand howpeople out there that's really
interested in really gettinginto the fundamentals of having
these difficult conversationsand really want to be a part of

(01:00:31):
this and have a heart for this,help us understand how to
connect.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
Yeah, I think one of the first entry points is
through our prayer breakfast.
Every Tuesday we have a prayerbreakfast.
Whether you are part of a localmovement across the state, or
whether you are not, you can beengaged with our prayer
breakfast, even if it's just viaZoom A lot of these prayer
breakfasts.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
So if I'm in Gulfport and I want to you can connect.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Connect Tuesday morning, 6.45 AM.
You can log in via Zoom.
You can go tomissionmississippiorg Sign up to
be a part of our newsletter byconnecting on through our
newsletter, by going to theconnect or the contact page.
That will give you access toour newsletter, which goes out
weekly, and it has announcementsabout what's going on in

(01:01:12):
Jackson, what's going on acrossthe state.
It has weekly words where weshare encouragements, blog posts
, podcasts which, by the way-.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
All this is at missionmississippiorg.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
Missionmississippiorg .
You can go to our podcastsearch on Live and Reconcile.
Go to Google search on Live andReconcile Mission Mississippi.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I'm old school man.
I want a telephone number whereI can talk to somebody
601-353-6477.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
That can give you access to us Grace at
missionmississippiorg.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Grace at missionmississippiorg.
So whatever school you comefrom new, old or indifferent we
got a way for you to contactGood and, most importantly, what
I want to direct you to.

Speaker 4 (01:01:51):
September the 25th, mississippi College, anderson
Hall, we are hosting our annualLiving Reconciled celebration.
It has two aims One for you tosee the work of Mission
Mississippi, two for you to seeone another, and that's a whole
other conversation and a wholeother story that we'll have to
get to at a later time.

(01:02:11):
But I believe seeing oneanother is the great need of our
day, the great need of our time, and we're going to spend a lot
of time on September the 25th,at 6 pm at Mississippi College,
unfolding why that's soimportant.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Unfolding.
Why that's so important, butalso connect us.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Tickets and all of that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
Mississippiorg.
As soon as you go to thewebsite, first thing that comes
up is an opportunity for you topurchase tickets to our upcoming
celebration on the 25th601-353-6477.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Challenging the audience as you go, as you leave
, challenge us, yeah, you gotone minute.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
There's opportunities all around us for us to build
bridges.
Yeah, there's you got oneminute.
There's opportunities allaround us for us to build
bridges.
There's opportunities allaround us for us to not play
into the narrative that we aredivided, hopelessly divided, and
it starts with just simplygrabbing a neighbor that doesn't
look like you vote, like youthink, like you.
Grabbing a cup of coffee.
Building relationship building,fellowship, connecting, because

(01:03:10):
that's what Jesus would haveyou to do.
That's why Jesus came and diedto make us one, one new man.
I would encourage every singleone of us, wherever we are, to
embark on that journey of livingout that reconciliation that
our Savior paid for and died for.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Thank you, brian Crawford, for being with us
today in Defining Moments withLarry Nix.
It's been a great opportunityfor us to share this time with
you.
We know we talked aboutdefining moments where we
encourage, inspire and give lifeand hope to people's lives that

(01:03:48):
we can cross these difficultchallenges and everyone has a
defining moment.
So I would invite our audienceto be with us every Wednesday
for Larry Nixon Defining Moments, the podcast.
We can do that at MultimediaDigital Network ignitemstv I'll
say it again, ignitemstv andalso join us every Tuesday and

(01:04:14):
Thursday for Defining Momentswith Larry Nicks on 104.3 FM,
live stream on Facebook, youtubeor iTunes WPBP1043.

(01:04:36):
I'm an old school guy but I knowthis is new school stuff.
So join us for Defining Moments.
If you'll Google Larry NixDefining Moments, you'll have
all the information there as itrelates to the podcast every
Wednesday from 11 to 12, and onthe radio program every Tuesday
and Thursday from 11 to 12 pm.
God bless, it's been greatgetting to know you even more.

(01:04:58):
I thought I knew everything,but you enlightened me on a lot
of new things.
Again, this is a definingmoment for Larry Diggs.
I guess I'm in, brian Crawfordfrom Michigan City.
God bless and God keep.
Thank you.