August 27, 2025 • 37 mins
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What does a church truly committed to racial reconciliation look like? Pastor Mike Fields of Triumph Church in Vicksburg, Mississippi, shares how a personal encounter with God transformed his faith and prepared him to lead one of the most diverse congregations in the state.
From its beginnings in the late 1980s, Triumph Church has reflected the diversity of its community, with Black and white members worshipping and leading together. Fields emphasizes the importance of not just allowing diversity but sharing real influence in shaping the identity and practices of the church. His story offers both inspiration and practical wisdom for leaders seeking to create congregations that embody reconciliation at the very heart of the gospel.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation about building churches and communities that reflect the unity of Christ.
Special thanks to our sponsors:Â
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on episode 82 of Living
(00:32):
Reconciled.
I'm your host, Brian Crawford,hanging out with incredible
friends, good friends, nettywinners, Austin Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm doing great man.
I love to hear that incrediblefriend man.
I don't know what it means, butI love hearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It means that you're incredible man just like Austin.
How about yourself, dr Hall?
How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My wife calls me incredible all the time, so I
just feel like I'm at home now,thank you.
Thank you, brian.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Don't believe that, but that's okay.
Special thanks to MississippiCollege, anderson United
Methodist Church, grace TempleChurch, mississippi State
University, real ChristianFoundation, nissan, st Dominic's
Hospital, atmos Energy, regentFoundation, brown Missionary
Baptist Church and all theothers.
Thank you so much to DorisPowell, robert Ward, ann Winters
, individuals.
It's folks like you individuals, churches, companies,
(01:20):
organizations, nonprofits thatmake Mission Mississippi able to
do what we do.
If you would like to join thisgreat list of individuals,
churches, companies andfoundations who are investing in
the work of reconciliation inthis state and beyond, it's real
easy to do you can go tomissionmississippiorg again
missionmississippiorg and clickon the donate page and you, too,
(01:43):
can invest in this work ofreconciliation, whether it be
podcasts, coaching, days ofdialogue sessions, trainings at
places like Belle HavenUniversity, mississippi College,
we're excited about all thework that we're doing as an
organization and we would lovefor you to join us in that work.
But today, this work involvesinterviewing an incredible guest
(02:05):
.
Mike Fields is the longtimepastor of Triumph Church, and
Mike is the husband of Zaina.
He is the father of George andChelsea.
He is the grandfather of fivegrandchildren and we couldn't be
more excited to have PastorMike Fields on our broadcast for
(02:29):
today.
Pastor Mike, how are you doing,sir?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I'm great, I'm great, it's great to be on with you
today, brian.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Fantastic, fantastic, pastor, why don't you start by
just telling us a little bitabout your story man, how you
came to faith in Christ, andtelling us a little bit about
your story man, how you came tofaith in Christ, and telling us
a little bit about that journeytowards ministry and how you
ended up starting, or how youended up becoming the lead
pastor and serving at thisincredible, dynamic,
multi-ethnic, multiculturalchurch like Triumph Church?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Thank you, I'd be glad to and I'll try not to bore
you with too many details.
But I'm actually, you know, Ialways start my when people ask
me about my faith.
Well, of course, I generallystart and say well, I was raised
, born and raised thirdgeneration Pentecostal.
(03:19):
My grandfather, my grandparents, came to Vicksburg in the late
thirties, uh, early 1940s, and,uh, my grandfather was a
carpenter, um, and aself-employed carpenter
Sometimes.
Uh, I think he spent a stint atLaterno as well back in those
(03:39):
days, uh, but he also had a felt, a calling to preach.
Now he was a very, very strong,opinioned Baptist and then he
would eventually actuallyGrandpa.
George Fields, who I named myson after was, was one of the
(03:59):
first.
I'm told he's one of the firstgraduates of Moody Bible
Institute's correspondencecourse for pastors.
Wow, he actually got anordination from Moody Bible
Institute.
My grandmother used to like tojoke that when he got his
(04:22):
diploma it came with a briefcase.
They actually sent him abriefcase as a gift for
completing the course.
But my grandfather loved theWord of God and never had a
chance to go to a formal Biblecollege, but he did go into a
bivocational ministry for a longtime, was a member of the
Waltersville Baptist Church,which now, I think, is Northside
(04:46):
Baptist.
Brian, you and I would befamiliar.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, absolutely Shout out.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, so Grandpa came up in that church and then he
got involved with thePentecostal movement in the
early 40s as it was kind ofspreading across the South and
not very many Pentecostalchurches In fact.
Grandpa, you know, came to knowthe Pentecostal experience, as
(05:18):
we would say, of being filledwith the Holy Spirit in a house
revival here in Vicksburg, in ahouse revival here in Vicksburg.
And but anyway, all of that tosay that in 1947, my grandfather
and GC Bishop here in Vicksburg, they partnered together and
(05:44):
founded one of the earliestPentecostal churches in
Vicksburg 1947, over here onCity Cemetery Road, and so they
were kind of partners in thatand the founding of that church.
And so that's how you know,that's how my that's how far
back my roots go in thePentecostal movement.
I guess you would say inVicksburg.
My roots go in the Pentecostalmovement, I guess you would say
(06:07):
in Vicksburg.
So my grandparents areconsidered the founding members
of that church, actually stillexists today and I think it goes
by First Pentecostal on PaxtonRoad.
I know some of those folks overthere are wonderful people.
But that's kind of where ourroots began.
So I grew up in the Pentecostalchurch here in Vicksburg.
(06:29):
My folks Norman and JoyceFields, my parents, were always
very involved in Sunday schooland leaders in the church,
elders and board members.
My dad was and always involved,but dad never felt a call to
ministry and anyway theyeventually kind of pulled away
(06:57):
from that denomination back inthe 80s and my parents went to
commuted back and forth to achurch in Jackson for several
years.
But at the same time dad beganto hold Bible studies here at
his home and prayer meetings.
Never intending on starting achurch, he just wanted to
(07:18):
minister and disciple friendsand family that he had known for
years here that he was nolonger connected to through
going to the same church andmost everyone that was in his
Bible in fact everyone I know inhis Bible study were people
that had just maybe kind ofbecome disillusioned and weren't
(07:41):
going to church anywhere andthat's kind of what motivated
him to start a home Bible study.
This was back in 88 and 89.
And eventually Triumph Churchwas birthed out of that.
Wow, it wasn't started.
My dad wasn't trying to found achurch when Triumph started out
(08:03):
of that.
But the Lord began to move andgather people and just through a
year, over a year long seriesof prayer meetings and weekly
meetings and praying andstudying the Bible, just seeking
God for direction for people'slives and ministering to people,
people who had been hurt.
But God birthed the church outof that.
(08:24):
So, zaina and I I had a businessin Jackson.
I founded Doric Burial VaultCompany.
I had went to Mortuary Collegein the early 80s and worked in
the funeral home industry forseveral years and then I started
(08:47):
a burial vault business wherewe would wholesale would
manufacture burial vaults andwholesale those to funeral homes
across the state.
So I was involved in that.
At the same time the church wasbeginning to take root here in
Vicksburg.
So my wife and I wanted to be apart of that.
We weren't involved.
We had recently moved toJackson and weren't involved in
(09:07):
a church there, weren'tconnected.
So we started coming to thoseprayer meetings, those early
home meetings that wouldeventually birth Triumph Church,
and so for the first 10 yearswe were leaders in the church.
We were part of the foundingleaders and elders in the church
.
Yeah, pastor.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I remember coming to a few services on South Street,
man, when you guys were rentinga space in a little plaza there
on South Street.
I remember as a kid coming to afew services with my parents.
Order of.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Salmon, walnut yeah, absolutely so that's probably
the first time we met becauseyou know it wasn't a very large
group there.
Yeah, yeah, we were part ofthat.
Pastor Bosarge was our firstpastor in residence, first
pastor in Vicksburg, and so,yeah, we have a lot of great
three and a half years of greatmemories on South and Walnut.
(10:00):
You know it was always funnybecause and I know Pastor
Bosarge, he would get you knowjust, it was always.
It was always funny because andI know Pastor Bozarts, he would
get you know, he it's it seemslike that the fire department
would get a call right about thetime it was time to bring the
word, you know, when the worshiphad calmed down and you could
hear everything through thoseglass walls and and.
(10:21):
But we have a lot of greatmemories there on South.
That's our roots, south andWalnut.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Fantastic, fantastic.
And so, yeah, my my, you knowthat's, that's how I came to be
connected to Triumph and my wifeand I served here for 10 years,
served the first two pastors,and during that time, really up
until right around 1990, I meanthe year 2000, I felt like my
(10:51):
calling was bivocational, youknow, to minister, teach the
Bible, primarily in the area ofworship, leading.
But God had a different planand so that's been 25 years ago
that we almost 26 years ago,that we were set in as the lead
pastors here at Triumph.
(11:12):
Wow, so that's my journeycollege years, early 20s.
You know I really drifted farfrom the Lord and but had a real
.
A real I think probably was thefirst time I was really born
(11:35):
again, at probably around 27, 28years old.
And you know, it's possible,and this was my experience.
It may not be others that wereraised in a similar denomination
that I was, but it was myexperience that you know that we
were around a lot of goodthings, but I had never really
(11:57):
heard or understood the biblicalgospel, and it may have been my
own fault because I wasn'tpaying attention.
And it may have been my ownfault because I wasn't paying
attention.
When I really come tounderstand, you know,
(12:18):
justification by faith and thefinished work of Calvary and the
completion of salvation throughthe life and work of Jesus
Christ.
And it was all brand new to meat 27, 28 years old, even though
I'd been been.
I was third generationPentecostal.
That's the reason I start withthat part of it and it just goes
to show you that, and I blameno one but myself, but being
being totally religious anddoing the Christian thing and
(12:39):
not knowing Jesus until I hadhad a real personal encounter
with him, in believing thegospel, you know, and taking,
obeying the gospel as it'spresented in the word of God,
that just come to Jesus in faith, trusting him as Savior and
(12:59):
Lord, I had never done that.
I had never done that in all myyears.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know, Mike, I don't believe Saul had that kind
of experience on the DamascusRoad.
He gave an illustration, ademonstration of how it all
happened.
Did you have a moment withinthat that something happened?
At that moment, Something saidwhat happened.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
It did.
It actually happened at home,you know, and I was going
through some crisis things in myfamily and you know some
struggles in my marriage and Ihad gotten to a place that you
know.
One night I was at home, alonein the bedroom crying out to God
(13:42):
.
I was at home, alone in thebedroom, crying out to God, and
it's just hard to explain, but Ihad a moment there where I was
boohooing, as we would say, toGod and crying out to God and
just in that moment I realizedthat I had never surrendered my
life to Christ, that I had neversurrendered my life to Christ,
(14:06):
I'd never accepted Christ forwho he was and come to him
without conditions, but justtotally surrendered my life to
Christ.
And that was my and, eddie, Ido look at that as a Damascus
Road moment for me.
You know I've given thattestimony countless times is
that, you know, I really came tofaith alone, in a bedroom of
(14:27):
desperation, you know, and itwas a transformative moment.
The next day my problems werestill there, but I had a totally
different perspective of who Iwas and who Christ was and who I
was supposed to be come thatmoment I started.
(14:49):
You know, my wife will tell you.
It took a while, but I set outto become a better husband, a
better father and to takeresponsibility for the spiritual
direction of my home and Godjust began to restore me.
It was in a very real sense.
I've always identified.
(15:11):
I love the Apostle Paul,quoting preaching, more than any
other apostle, but I identifymost with Peter.
You know of having to gothrough a season of real
restoration and finding my ownidentity in Christ and realizing
that who I was trying to be wasnot who Christ had destined for
(15:33):
me to be.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You know, mike, I find that a lot of Christians
have to be like Peter, in thesense of Jesus says to Peter the
devil is going to sift you, andso you know that's an
experience.
Coming away from something likethat causes us to take things
more seriously.
So I feel that same sense ofdesperation and so forth after a
(15:58):
confrontation with somethinglike Jesus tried to Peter and
he's done.
When you return, strengthen thebrothers and so yeah absolutely
.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I.
I so can identify with that.
You know, just just majorfailure.
And then, uh, a rebirth.
That's like wow.
You know, I've never been herebefore to this place of faith
and surrender.
Uh and uh, especially thisplace of faith and surrender,
and especially in the person ofChrist.
I always believed in the personof Christ, but I came to see
(16:29):
him just in a unique way.
And again, it wasn't overnight,but that was my Damascus Road
moment, and from that point Ican begin to trace a drastic
redirection of my life.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, man, that's been trouble, pastor.
Quick tidbit here I actuallycame to faith in Christ in 1997,
the summer or leading it thespring rather of 1997, at
Triumph Church.
Wow, and I had heard the gospelpreached for a long time in my
(17:11):
own house, with my father beinga pastor.
But it was in 1997, on a Sundayevening attending a service
with a friend, that I actuallyfully embraced the gospel of
Christ and came to faith, and myjourney, my journey with the
Lord, really and truly beganthere, going into my senior year
(17:32):
at Triumph Church.
So quick little tidbit, that'sawesome, brian.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Were you and Mike sitting on the same row?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I don't know.
Yeah, he would have been.
He would have been young andprobably probably how old were
you then?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I was going into my, I was going into my senior year
for 17 years old it was that.
It was a Easter evening servicethat my friend invited me to.
Yeah, I'm sorry 19, not 1997,1996.
Going into my senior year,easter evening service.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I had met your dad, I think, one time, maybe through
dug up church, and knew hadheard so many great things about
EJ Crawford.
And of course I met you, brian,at your father's funeral
service.
Yes, yes yes, and wow, when yougot up there and spoke and
(18:30):
talked about your dad andofficiated that service, I was
just blown away at your heartand, wow, your dad had put a lot
in you and maybe that was thefirst moment it began to come
out.
But I knew, I remember comingout to the funeral car that you
were sitting in and justintroducing myself to you again
(18:53):
who I was and and I knew at thatmoment, you know, really, I
remember at that moment thinkingI'm supposed to be connected to
this guy.
Really, I remember at thatmoment thinking I'm supposed to
be connected to this guy andhe's you know, he's our hearts
are.
There was a heart connectionthat day and of course, we've
(19:13):
been friends ever since and butjust, yeah, that was, that was
an amazing moment too as welland have just admired you more
and the more I've gotten to knowyou, the more I've admired you
and your heart for God.
And you are a leader of leaders, Brian Crawford, there's no
doubt about that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know Austin, I feel like we're a third thumb in
this thing.
I think this was all set upjust to have a reunion with Mike
and Brian and we just kind oflike the audience or something.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Austin you know how he's about to contribute right
now, Nanny and Brian, and wejust kind of lack the audience.
He's about to contribute rightnow, Nanny.
I married a Vicksburg woman.
I married into a Vicksburgfamily.
They just talk upon themselves.
They're like their own littlecountry there you go so it's a
Vicksburg thing, yeah, we'll letyou in now.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Come on in guys, Come on in Austin, Come on in.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh no, you know me, I like jumping into depth.
I really like, mike, how you'recomparing your experience to
Saul on the Damascus Road.
If reconciliation is kind oflike a Damascus Road moment for
communities, it was for you asan individual.
Scales falling off of our eyeswhat do you see the Spirit
(20:25):
trying to do in your communityto help people see better, to
help the scales fall off theireyes and obviously when the
scales fell off yours, youjumped in, you did something,
(20:49):
you answered the calling andoftentimes, when the scales have
fallen off your eyes, you arethen better able to look around
and see where other people can'tsee.
To helping other peopleparticipating with the Holy
Spirit and helping people seewhat their own unique calling is
.
Maybe it's individuals, butalso wider communities in the
(21:12):
reconciliation effort.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Well, you know, my understanding of how vital
reconciliation is as part of thegospel has certainly grown and
evolved, um, but it goes back,you know, I, I the in in the
founding of Triumph Church,which I was here, but, but there
were others that that really,you know, set vision in those
early days.
My father, the first pastor,but I remember that the early
(21:49):
vision statements was that wewere going to be a church of
reconciliation and that wasgoing to be the DNA, a part of
the DNA of our church.
You know, we weren't just Godhad not raised up Triumph just
to be another local church,another option for folks in
Vicksburg to choose from, butthat this church would be a
(22:13):
church of reconciliation, again,from the very beginning, from
those meetings, brian, youreferenced, of South and Walnut,
I think you could attest tothis If there were 50 people
there.
It was.
It was half and half black andwhite.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
And and that.
That was the, that was the core, that was the, the scowling, as
we would say, of what becameTriumph Church, and it's always
been that way would say, of whatbecame Triumph Church, and it's
always been that way.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's always incredibly unusual as a kid
walking into a church inVicksburg and seeing that 50-50
split.
That was unusual.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You know, brian, since you got your initiation of
sorts or you came to know theLord sitting on the pew there in
Triumph Church.
You think they ignited citylight in you very much could
have.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think, I think therewere all, all these seeds that
were being planted along the wayand and triumph was one of
those one of those definitiveseeds in my heart that that
basically pointed to the realitythat this is possible, and not
only is it possible, but itshould be aspired to.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So you know the baptist, baptist would call you
a son of the house.
How do you, how do you do, dothat in terms of triumph and sit
in?
No, no, don't answer that.
Don't answer that, mike.
You know you talked about.
You know a critical part of thegospel is reconciliation.
You know, in Ephesians two,verses, 14 through 22,.
(23:47):
It gives me the sense that thatis the gospel, for for God
reconcile us unto himself and toone another.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know for us to, youknow for us to assume that we
can be just as effective bylimiting you know who we worship
with and just by saying, ohwell, you know, it works just
fine for us to be this cultureor that culture and we can do
(24:22):
more if we're kind of unifiedand of the same culture,
ethnicity or whatever.
To me it flies in the face.
I always believe that there arechurches in Vicksburg that are
doing a great work that may beall African-American, all white,
(24:43):
I understand.
I would never want to comeacross as judgmental or
diminishing their value andtheir ministry.
There's no doubt that they aremaking a mark for the kingdom.
But for me and I think thisgoes to maybe the question
Austin had asked me earlier isthat from early on I knew that,
(25:06):
hey, this was a part of ourchurch's vision and heart and
this was my heart and visionthat you know.
I would always want to be apart of our church's vision and
heart and this was my heart andvision that you know.
I would always want to be apart of a church that embraced
the fact that reconciliation isat the heart of the gospel.
It's not something we can puton the side.
(25:27):
It's not something we can workon every now and then.
This has to be a part of theheart of the vision.
I knew that that would have tobe a part of the church that I
would be involved in.
And my mother, long before Iwent into the ministry, many,
(25:50):
many years ago, my mother kepttelling me about a reoccurring
dream she would have.
She says, mike, I see you uppreaching.
Of course, this was at a timewhen I thought, no, that's not
my calling and I loved pastorsbut I didn't want to be one.
But my mother kept having thisreoccurring dream and she says
(26:11):
when I see the audience you'repreaching to, it's always
African-American and you know,and so she was.
She didn't know what to make ofthat, but she was telling me
that you need to, you need to beopen to God, using you in a
broader way than maybe your mindis thinking.
You know and, of course, thatand a lot of other things.
(26:33):
But now when I look back and Isee it, you know it's it's it's
it's a part of my assignment toto help people see not only how
important reconciliation is, thegospel as Nettie described I
agree with that in Ephesiansthat we take the limitations off
(26:59):
of what God can do orculturally picked up, that when
those things are brought to Godand surrendered, god uses those
(27:20):
unique things to expand our tentand our influence much larger
than we had imagined.
And I've often said too I alwayswant to be a part of a church.
I used to say that one before Ibecame the pastor I want to be
a part of a church.
And then I would say that againafter that I became.
(27:42):
I want to pastor a church thatlooks like Vicksburg, and that's
always been.
You know, like we know, wedon't get everything right, and
Lord knows I've made lots ofmistakes along the way, and but
when I look out every Sundaymorning and my church looks like
(28:02):
my city, I feel like Lord.
At least we have taken thelimitations off of of the people
you can reach, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
You know, I find that there are two kinds of I don't
know how to say this two kindsof intentionality.
Can I put it that way?
You know when you was talkingabout you don't want to judge
the other churches that may beall black, all white or whatever
.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
But also you have people that,like yourselves, and like
(28:33):
yourself and Brian, brian andothers, that are intentionally
opening up, taking off thelimits, taking off the
restrictions, intentionallydoing things to make the church
look like your city or look likewhat God would have for it to
be.
But also you have people thatare intentionally limiting those
(28:55):
circumstances in the reverseform.
They're going to do everythingthey can to keep it all white or
all black or whatever.
Now for me, I don't know what todo with that, but there it is.
But now, if you're not mixedand you're not intentionally
going after to make itmulticultural, multiracial, I
(29:15):
think there's something you'remissing.
And if you're intentionallypreventing that from happening,
absolutely that is not thekingdom that God intended for us
to have.
That is not the church intendedfor us to have.
And so we find ourselves,sometimes I find myself, caught
in those situations, and thenyou had a silent cry that you
(29:36):
know I'm not going to doanything intentionally to stop
folks from coming, but certainlyI'm not going to do anything
intentionally to get folks tocome.
So we find ourselves in thosecircumstances.
I don't know what you got in itcomment, or you know experience
around that or not around thator not.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, I would always say and I know Brian would say
this because his church looks alot like Triumph in terms of the
ethnicity myth We'll be thefirst to say God did this.
I've had lots of people say,well, tell me how to do that.
Pastors, well-meaning pastorsthat really want to know.
And of course, the first thingcomes out of my God has done
this because I know that thereare unique things that happen
(30:19):
and transpire, that that was Godmoving, you know, and we y'all
never take credit for that.
But at the same time, to yourpoint, we had to lean into that
Absolutely From day one.
We had to lean into that to beintentional about sharing
leadership, sharing influence,you know, was it?
(30:41):
John Maxwell famously saysleadership is nothing more than
influence.
Well, that's true.
Sometimes it does us good tokind of boil it down to that,
filter it down.
We're just talking aboutinfluence here, and sometimes I
think that's what a lot ofpastors would like to see their
church be more racially mixed,but they're not willing to share
(31:02):
influence.
They might even share somelevels of leadership.
We'll let you be a leader,we'll let you lead the singing,
we'll let you do the worship,but it's influence that you've
got to be willing to share andthat is to allow others to share
decision-making help.
You know, ultimately the seniorleader, you know, has to.
(31:24):
The vision has to bearticulated and brought through
him.
But that vision has to begathered to me from many
directions, you know, and andthat's where that influence, you
know, we had to decide I hope Ihope I'm saying this OK and not
in an offensive way we had todecide early on.
(31:44):
We're not going to look like awhite church.
We're not going to.
We're not going to look likewe're going to allow the people
we're trying to reach toinfluence what this church looks
like Intuit church, the waythis church, the way we do
church, everything from themusic on down, you know, to
(32:10):
maybe even to the some of thisstyle of preaching.
You know, we, everybody, hastheir own style.
You know, I don't try to mimicany other style of preaching,
but I love to have other pastorsin my pulpit that have a
totally different style, but yetthey, you know, they have the
(32:30):
anointing, but yet they, youknow, they have the anointing
and we want our people to notonly be exposed to that, to be
embraced, to draw from thatbecause I know I'm not the whole
package, you know, and, butagain, I think that goes to this
idea of of influence you haveto allow.
You have to allow thatinfluence and to begin to shape
(32:54):
what the church looks like andthen follow that and lead that
and seek God's guidance allalong.
Of course everything has to besaturated in prayer.
I know I don't have to tell youguys anything about that, but
when you saturate constantlyeverything in prayer, then you
kind of find where you may needto step right instead of left at
(33:17):
some point and bring correctionto some area that may be
getting a little bit out ofbalance.
You know, if you do that just byyour own thinking boy, you
begin to misstep I've done thatby mistake before and just
saturate everything in prayerand then, when you look back,
(33:38):
the most amazing part is lookingin the rearview mirror and then
saying, wow, look what God isdoing here.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, but you got to keep out on the road if you
don't want to run over somebody.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
You got that right.
You can only look backwardswhat they say 2% of the time,
98% of the time.
You better be looking throughthat right.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
You can only look backwards what they say Two
percent of the time, 98 percentof the time you better be
looking through that windshieldor you're going to crash, I
agree.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
That's been your heart.
You preach in our church.
We've spent lots of timetogether, nettie.
Is that you?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
know intentionality.
Even when it's uncomfortable,you've got to be intentional.
I'm captured by theintentionality piece.
I have a good friend who talksabout the idea that missiology
or missions, the nature ofmissions in the church, begins
with an accurate understandingof the neighborhood.
(34:37):
You know that oftentimeschurches would like to engage on
mission, but they're not reallyinterested in understanding the
context that God has placedthem in.
They're not interested inunderstanding their neighbors or
they're not interested inallowing the aesthetic and the
appearance of the church to takeon the neighbors.
And so they want to reach theirneighbors, but they don't ever
(34:59):
want the church to look liketheir neighbors.
And it's like how can thechurch accurately reach a
neighborhood that they're notinterested in actually becoming?
Hey, so, pastor Mike and NettieAlston, this is an incredible
dialogue, an incredibleconversation.
So incredible to me not asincredible as the friends that I
have of Nettie Winters andAustin Hoyle, but an incredible
(35:21):
conversation that's soincredible to me.
I feel like we need to breakthis into two parts, and so what
we'll do is we're going to puta bow on this conversation for
now.
Put a bow on this conversationfor now.
If you're listening, please feelfree to go out, like, share and
subscribe to Living Reconciled.
You can find us on any podcastapp by searching on Living
Reconciled Again, livingReconciled by Mission
(35:43):
Mississippi, and search on anypodcast app and that will get
you to us.
We would love for you tocontinue not only to listen to
this episode and listen to otherepisodes that we have, but we
would love for you to share themas well.
That's how we get this word outand how we get the message out.
So please again, we're going toput the bow on part one Come
back and join us for part two ofthis podcast episode with
(36:08):
Pastor Mike Fields, pastor ofTriumph Church.
God bless God bless.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(36:29):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on episode 82 of Living
(00:32):
Reconciled.
I'm your host, Brian Crawford,hanging out with incredible
friends, good friends, nettywinners, Austin Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doingtoday?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm doing great man.
I love to hear that incrediblefriend man.
I don't know what it means, butI love hearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It means that you're incredible man just like Austin.
How about yourself, dr Hall?
How are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
My wife calls me incredible all the time, so I
just feel like I'm at home now,thank you.
Thank you, brian.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Don't believe that, but that's okay.
Special thanks to MississippiCollege, anderson United
Methodist Church, grace TempleChurch, mississippi State
University, real ChristianFoundation, nissan, st Dominic's
Hospital, atmos Energy, regentFoundation, brown Missionary
Baptist Church and all theothers.
Thank you so much to DorisPowell, robert Ward, ann Winters
, individuals.
It's folks like you individuals, churches, companies,
(01:20):
organizations, nonprofits thatmake Mission Mississippi able to
do what we do.
If you would like to join thisgreat list of individuals,
churches, companies andfoundations who are investing in
the work of reconciliation inthis state and beyond, it's real
easy to do you can go tomissionmississippiorg again
missionmississippiorg and clickon the donate page and you, too,
(01:43):
can invest in this work ofreconciliation, whether it be
podcasts, coaching, days ofdialogue sessions, trainings at
places like Belle HavenUniversity, mississippi College,
we're excited about all thework that we're doing as an
organization and we would lovefor you to join us in that work.
But today, this work involvesinterviewing an incredible guest
(02:05):
.
Mike Fields is the longtimepastor of Triumph Church, and
Mike is the husband of Zaina.
He is the father of George andChelsea.
He is the grandfather of fivegrandchildren and we couldn't be
more excited to have PastorMike Fields on our broadcast for
(02:29):
today.
Pastor Mike, how are you doing,sir?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
I'm great, I'm great, it's great to be on with you
today, brian.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Fantastic, fantastic, pastor, why don't you start by
just telling us a little bitabout your story man, how you
came to faith in Christ, andtelling us a little bit about
your story man, how you came tofaith in Christ, and telling us
a little bit about that journeytowards ministry and how you
ended up starting, or how youended up becoming the lead
pastor and serving at thisincredible, dynamic,
multi-ethnic, multiculturalchurch like Triumph Church?
Speaker 4 (02:59):
Thank you, I'd be glad to and I'll try not to bore
you with too many details.
But I'm actually, you know, Ialways start my when people ask
me about my faith.
Well, of course, I generallystart and say well, I was raised
, born and raised thirdgeneration Pentecostal.
(03:19):
My grandfather, my grandparents, came to Vicksburg in the late
thirties, uh, early 1940s, and,uh, my grandfather was a
carpenter, um, and aself-employed carpenter
Sometimes.
Uh, I think he spent a stint atLaterno as well back in those
(03:39):
days, uh, but he also had a felt, a calling to preach.
Now he was a very, very strong,opinioned Baptist and then he
would eventually actuallyGrandpa.
George Fields, who I named myson after was, was one of the
(03:59):
first.
I'm told he's one of the firstgraduates of Moody Bible
Institute's correspondencecourse for pastors.
Wow, he actually got anordination from Moody Bible
Institute.
My grandmother used to like tojoke that when he got his
(04:22):
diploma it came with a briefcase.
They actually sent him abriefcase as a gift for
completing the course.
But my grandfather loved theWord of God and never had a
chance to go to a formal Biblecollege, but he did go into a
bivocational ministry for a longtime, was a member of the
Waltersville Baptist Church,which now, I think, is Northside
(04:46):
Baptist.
Brian, you and I would befamiliar.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, absolutely Shout out.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah, so Grandpa came up in that church and then he
got involved with thePentecostal movement in the
early 40s as it was kind ofspreading across the South and
not very many Pentecostalchurches In fact.
Grandpa, you know, came to knowthe Pentecostal experience, as
(05:18):
we would say, of being filledwith the Holy Spirit in a house
revival here in Vicksburg, in ahouse revival here in Vicksburg.
And but anyway, all of that tosay that in 1947, my grandfather
and GC Bishop here in Vicksburg, they partnered together and
(05:44):
founded one of the earliestPentecostal churches in
Vicksburg 1947, over here onCity Cemetery Road, and so they
were kind of partners in thatand the founding of that church.
And so that's how you know,that's how my that's how far
back my roots go in thePentecostal movement.
I guess you would say inVicksburg.
My roots go in the Pentecostalmovement, I guess you would say
(06:07):
in Vicksburg.
So my grandparents areconsidered the founding members
of that church, actually stillexists today and I think it goes
by First Pentecostal on PaxtonRoad.
I know some of those folks overthere are wonderful people.
But that's kind of where ourroots began.
So I grew up in the Pentecostalchurch here in Vicksburg.
(06:29):
My folks Norman and JoyceFields, my parents, were always
very involved in Sunday schooland leaders in the church,
elders and board members.
My dad was and always involved,but dad never felt a call to
ministry and anyway theyeventually kind of pulled away
(06:57):
from that denomination back inthe 80s and my parents went to
commuted back and forth to achurch in Jackson for several
years.
But at the same time dad beganto hold Bible studies here at
his home and prayer meetings.
Never intending on starting achurch, he just wanted to
(07:18):
minister and disciple friendsand family that he had known for
years here that he was nolonger connected to through
going to the same church andmost everyone that was in his
Bible in fact everyone I know inhis Bible study were people
that had just maybe kind ofbecome disillusioned and weren't
(07:41):
going to church anywhere andthat's kind of what motivated
him to start a home Bible study.
This was back in 88 and 89.
And eventually Triumph Churchwas birthed out of that.
Wow, it wasn't started.
My dad wasn't trying to found achurch when Triumph started out
(08:03):
of that.
But the Lord began to move andgather people and just through a
year, over a year long seriesof prayer meetings and weekly
meetings and praying andstudying the Bible, just seeking
God for direction for people'slives and ministering to people,
people who had been hurt.
But God birthed the church outof that.
(08:24):
So, zaina and I I had a businessin Jackson.
I founded Doric Burial VaultCompany.
I had went to Mortuary Collegein the early 80s and worked in
the funeral home industry forseveral years and then I started
(08:47):
a burial vault business wherewe would wholesale would
manufacture burial vaults andwholesale those to funeral homes
across the state.
So I was involved in that.
At the same time the church wasbeginning to take root here in
Vicksburg.
So my wife and I wanted to be apart of that.
We weren't involved.
We had recently moved toJackson and weren't involved in
(09:07):
a church there, weren'tconnected.
So we started coming to thoseprayer meetings, those early
home meetings that wouldeventually birth Triumph Church,
and so for the first 10 yearswe were leaders in the church.
We were part of the foundingleaders and elders in the church
.
Yeah, pastor.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I remember coming to a few services on South Street,
man, when you guys were rentinga space in a little plaza there
on South Street.
I remember as a kid coming to afew services with my parents.
Order of.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Salmon, walnut yeah, absolutely so that's probably
the first time we met becauseyou know it wasn't a very large
group there.
Yeah, yeah, we were part ofthat.
Pastor Bosarge was our firstpastor in residence, first
pastor in Vicksburg, and so,yeah, we have a lot of great
three and a half years of greatmemories on South and Walnut.
(10:00):
You know it was always funnybecause and I know Pastor
Bosarge, he would get you knowjust, it was always.
It was always funny because andI know Pastor Bozarts, he would
get you know, he it's it seemslike that the fire department
would get a call right about thetime it was time to bring the
word, you know, when the worshiphad calmed down and you could
hear everything through thoseglass walls and and.
(10:21):
But we have a lot of greatmemories there on South.
That's our roots, south andWalnut.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
Fantastic, fantastic.
And so, yeah, my my, you knowthat's, that's how I came to be
connected to Triumph and my wifeand I served here for 10 years,
served the first two pastors,and during that time, really up
until right around 1990, I meanthe year 2000, I felt like my
(10:51):
calling was bivocational, youknow, to minister, teach the
Bible, primarily in the area ofworship, leading.
But God had a different planand so that's been 25 years ago
that we almost 26 years ago,that we were set in as the lead
pastors here at Triumph.
(11:12):
Wow, so that's my journeycollege years, early 20s.
You know I really drifted farfrom the Lord and but had a real
.
A real I think probably was thefirst time I was really born
(11:35):
again, at probably around 27, 28years old.
And you know, it's possible,and this was my experience.
It may not be others that wereraised in a similar denomination
that I was, but it was myexperience that you know that we
were around a lot of goodthings, but I had never really
(11:57):
heard or understood the biblicalgospel, and it may have been my
own fault because I wasn'tpaying attention.
And it may have been my ownfault because I wasn't paying
attention.
When I really come tounderstand, you know,
(12:18):
justification by faith and thefinished work of Calvary and the
completion of salvation throughthe life and work of Jesus
Christ.
And it was all brand new to meat 27, 28 years old, even though
I'd been been.
I was third generationPentecostal.
That's the reason I start withthat part of it and it just goes
to show you that, and I blameno one but myself, but being
being totally religious anddoing the Christian thing and
(12:39):
not knowing Jesus until I hadhad a real personal encounter
with him, in believing thegospel, you know, and taking,
obeying the gospel as it'spresented in the word of God,
that just come to Jesus in faith, trusting him as Savior and
(12:59):
Lord, I had never done that.
I had never done that in all myyears.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know, Mike, I don't believe Saul had that kind
of experience on the DamascusRoad.
He gave an illustration, ademonstration of how it all
happened.
Did you have a moment withinthat that something happened?
At that moment, Something saidwhat happened.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
It did.
It actually happened at home,you know, and I was going
through some crisis things in myfamily and you know some
struggles in my marriage and Ihad gotten to a place that you
know.
One night I was at home, alonein the bedroom crying out to God
(13:42):
.
I was at home, alone in thebedroom, crying out to God, and
it's just hard to explain, but Ihad a moment there where I was
boohooing, as we would say, toGod and crying out to God and
just in that moment I realizedthat I had never surrendered my
life to Christ, that I had neversurrendered my life to Christ,
(14:06):
I'd never accepted Christ forwho he was and come to him
without conditions, but justtotally surrendered my life to
Christ.
And that was my and, eddie, Ido look at that as a Damascus
Road moment for me.
You know I've given thattestimony countless times is
that, you know, I really came tofaith alone, in a bedroom of
(14:27):
desperation, you know, and itwas a transformative moment.
The next day my problems werestill there, but I had a totally
different perspective of who Iwas and who Christ was and who I
was supposed to be come thatmoment I started.
(14:49):
You know, my wife will tell you.
It took a while, but I set outto become a better husband, a
better father and to takeresponsibility for the spiritual
direction of my home and Godjust began to restore me.
It was in a very real sense.
I've always identified.
(15:11):
I love the Apostle Paul,quoting preaching, more than any
other apostle, but I identifymost with Peter.
You know of having to gothrough a season of real
restoration and finding my ownidentity in Christ and realizing
that who I was trying to be wasnot who Christ had destined for
(15:33):
me to be.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You know, mike, I find that a lot of Christians
have to be like Peter, in thesense of Jesus says to Peter the
devil is going to sift you, andso you know that's an
experience.
Coming away from something likethat causes us to take things
more seriously.
So I feel that same sense ofdesperation and so forth after a
(15:58):
confrontation with somethinglike Jesus tried to Peter and
he's done.
When you return, strengthen thebrothers and so yeah absolutely
.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I.
I so can identify with that.
You know, just just majorfailure.
And then, uh, a rebirth.
That's like wow.
You know, I've never been herebefore to this place of faith
and surrender.
Uh and uh, especially thisplace of faith and surrender,
and especially in the person ofChrist.
I always believed in the personof Christ, but I came to see
(16:29):
him just in a unique way.
And again, it wasn't overnight,but that was my Damascus Road
moment, and from that point Ican begin to trace a drastic
redirection of my life.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, man, that's been trouble, pastor.
Quick tidbit here I actuallycame to faith in Christ in 1997,
the summer or leading it thespring rather of 1997, at
Triumph Church.
Wow, and I had heard the gospelpreached for a long time in my
(17:11):
own house, with my father beinga pastor.
But it was in 1997, on a Sundayevening attending a service
with a friend, that I actuallyfully embraced the gospel of
Christ and came to faith, and myjourney, my journey with the
Lord, really and truly beganthere, going into my senior year
(17:32):
at Triumph Church.
So quick little tidbit, that'sawesome, brian.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Were you and Mike sitting on the same row?
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I don't know.
Yeah, he would have been.
He would have been young andprobably probably how old were
you then?
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I was going into my, I was going into my senior year
for 17 years old it was that.
It was a Easter evening servicethat my friend invited me to.
Yeah, I'm sorry 19, not 1997,1996.
Going into my senior year,easter evening service.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
I had met your dad, I think, one time, maybe through
dug up church, and knew hadheard so many great things about
EJ Crawford.
And of course I met you, brian,at your father's funeral
service.
Yes, yes yes, and wow, when yougot up there and spoke and
(18:30):
talked about your dad andofficiated that service, I was
just blown away at your heartand, wow, your dad had put a lot
in you and maybe that was thefirst moment it began to come
out.
But I knew, I remember comingout to the funeral car that you
were sitting in and justintroducing myself to you again
(18:53):
who I was and and I knew at thatmoment, you know, really, I
remember at that moment thinkingI'm supposed to be connected to
this guy.
Really, I remember at thatmoment thinking I'm supposed to
be connected to this guy andhe's you know, he's our hearts
are.
There was a heart connectionthat day and of course, we've
(19:13):
been friends ever since and butjust, yeah, that was, that was
an amazing moment too as welland have just admired you more
and the more I've gotten to knowyou, the more I've admired you
and your heart for God.
And you are a leader of leaders, Brian Crawford, there's no
doubt about that.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
You know Austin, I feel like we're a third thumb in
this thing.
I think this was all set upjust to have a reunion with Mike
and Brian and we just kind oflike the audience or something.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Austin you know how he's about to contribute right
now, Nanny and Brian, and wejust kind of lack the audience.
He's about to contribute rightnow, Nanny.
I married a Vicksburg woman.
I married into a Vicksburgfamily.
They just talk upon themselves.
They're like their own littlecountry there you go so it's a
Vicksburg thing, yeah, we'll letyou in now.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Come on in guys, Come on in Austin, Come on in.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh no, you know me, I like jumping into depth.
I really like, mike, how you'recomparing your experience to
Saul on the Damascus Road.
If reconciliation is kind oflike a Damascus Road moment for
communities, it was for you asan individual.
Scales falling off of our eyeswhat do you see the Spirit
(20:25):
trying to do in your communityto help people see better, to
help the scales fall off theireyes and obviously when the
scales fell off yours, youjumped in, you did something,
(20:49):
you answered the calling andoftentimes, when the scales have
fallen off your eyes, you arethen better able to look around
and see where other people can'tsee.
To helping other peopleparticipating with the Holy
Spirit and helping people seewhat their own unique calling is
.
Maybe it's individuals, butalso wider communities in the
(21:12):
reconciliation effort.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Well, you know, my understanding of how vital
reconciliation is as part of thegospel has certainly grown and
evolved, um, but it goes back,you know, I, I the in in the
founding of Triumph Church,which I was here, but, but there
were others that that really,you know, set vision in those
early days.
My father, the first pastor,but I remember that the early
(21:49):
vision statements was that wewere going to be a church of
reconciliation and that wasgoing to be the DNA, a part of
the DNA of our church.
You know, we weren't just Godhad not raised up Triumph just
to be another local church,another option for folks in
Vicksburg to choose from, butthat this church would be a
(22:13):
church of reconciliation, again,from the very beginning, from
those meetings, brian, youreferenced, of South and Walnut,
I think you could attest tothis If there were 50 people
there.
It was.
It was half and half black andwhite.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
And and that.
That was the, that was the core, that was the, the scowling, as
we would say, of what becameTriumph Church, and it's always
been that way would say, of whatbecame Triumph Church, and it's
always been that way.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's always incredibly unusual as a kid
walking into a church inVicksburg and seeing that 50-50
split.
That was unusual.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You know, brian, since you got your initiation of
sorts or you came to know theLord sitting on the pew there in
Triumph Church.
You think they ignited citylight in you very much could
have.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I think, I think therewere all, all these seeds that
were being planted along the wayand and triumph was one of
those one of those definitiveseeds in my heart that that
basically pointed to the realitythat this is possible, and not
only is it possible, but itshould be aspired to.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So you know the baptist, baptist would call you
a son of the house.
How do you, how do you do, dothat in terms of triumph and sit
in?
No, no, don't answer that.
Don't answer that, mike.
You know you talked about.
You know a critical part of thegospel is reconciliation.
You know, in Ephesians two,verses, 14 through 22,.
(23:47):
It gives me the sense that thatis the gospel, for for God
reconcile us unto himself and toone another.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And you know for us to, youknow for us to assume that we
can be just as effective bylimiting you know who we worship
with and just by saying, ohwell, you know, it works just
fine for us to be this cultureor that culture and we can do
(24:22):
more if we're kind of unifiedand of the same culture,
ethnicity or whatever.
To me it flies in the face.
I always believe that there arechurches in Vicksburg that are
doing a great work that may beall African-American, all white,
(24:43):
I understand.
I would never want to comeacross as judgmental or
diminishing their value andtheir ministry.
There's no doubt that they aremaking a mark for the kingdom.
But for me and I think thisgoes to maybe the question
Austin had asked me earlier isthat from early on I knew that,
(25:06):
hey, this was a part of ourchurch's vision and heart and
this was my heart and visionthat you know.
I would always want to be apart of our church's vision and
heart and this was my heart andvision that you know.
I would always want to be apart of a church that embraced
the fact that reconciliation isat the heart of the gospel.
It's not something we can puton the side.
(25:27):
It's not something we can workon every now and then.
This has to be a part of theheart of the vision.
I knew that that would have tobe a part of the church that I
would be involved in.
And my mother, long before Iwent into the ministry, many,
(25:50):
many years ago, my mother kepttelling me about a reoccurring
dream she would have.
She says, mike, I see you uppreaching.
Of course, this was at a timewhen I thought, no, that's not
my calling and I loved pastorsbut I didn't want to be one.
But my mother kept having thisreoccurring dream and she says
(26:11):
when I see the audience you'repreaching to, it's always
African-American and you know,and so she was.
She didn't know what to make ofthat, but she was telling me
that you need to, you need to beopen to God, using you in a
broader way than maybe your mindis thinking.
You know and, of course, thatand a lot of other things.
(26:33):
But now when I look back and Isee it, you know it's it's it's
it's a part of my assignment toto help people see not only how
important reconciliation is, thegospel as Nettie described I
agree with that in Ephesiansthat we take the limitations off
(26:59):
of what God can do orculturally picked up, that when
those things are brought to Godand surrendered, god uses those
(27:20):
unique things to expand our tentand our influence much larger
than we had imagined.
And I've often said too I alwayswant to be a part of a church.
I used to say that one before Ibecame the pastor I want to be
a part of a church.
And then I would say that againafter that I became.
(27:42):
I want to pastor a church thatlooks like Vicksburg, and that's
always been.
You know, like we know, wedon't get everything right, and
Lord knows I've made lots ofmistakes along the way, and but
when I look out every Sundaymorning and my church looks like
(28:02):
my city, I feel like Lord.
At least we have taken thelimitations off of of the people
you can reach, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
You know, I find that there are two kinds of I don't
know how to say this two kindsof intentionality.
Can I put it that way?
You know when you was talkingabout you don't want to judge
the other churches that may beall black, all white or whatever
.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
But also you have people that,like yourselves, and like
(28:33):
yourself and Brian, brian andothers, that are intentionally
opening up, taking off thelimits, taking off the
restrictions, intentionallydoing things to make the church
look like your city or look likewhat God would have for it to
be.
But also you have people thatare intentionally limiting those
(28:55):
circumstances in the reverseform.
They're going to do everythingthey can to keep it all white or
all black or whatever.
Now for me, I don't know what todo with that, but there it is.
But now, if you're not mixedand you're not intentionally
going after to make itmulticultural, multiracial, I
(29:15):
think there's something you'remissing.
And if you're intentionallypreventing that from happening,
absolutely that is not thekingdom that God intended for us
to have.
That is not the church intendedfor us to have.
And so we find ourselves,sometimes I find myself, caught
in those situations, and thenyou had a silent cry that you
(29:36):
know I'm not going to doanything intentionally to stop
folks from coming, but certainlyI'm not going to do anything
intentionally to get folks tocome.
So we find ourselves in thosecircumstances.
I don't know what you got in itcomment, or you know experience
around that or not around thator not.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yeah, I would always say and I know Brian would say
this because his church looks alot like Triumph in terms of the
ethnicity myth We'll be thefirst to say God did this.
I've had lots of people say,well, tell me how to do that.
Pastors, well-meaning pastorsthat really want to know.
And of course, the first thingcomes out of my God has done
this because I know that thereare unique things that happen
(30:19):
and transpire, that that was Godmoving, you know, and we y'all
never take credit for that.
But at the same time, to yourpoint, we had to lean into that
Absolutely From day one.
We had to lean into that to beintentional about sharing
leadership, sharing influence,you know, was it?
(30:41):
John Maxwell famously saysleadership is nothing more than
influence.
Well, that's true.
Sometimes it does us good tokind of boil it down to that,
filter it down.
We're just talking aboutinfluence here, and sometimes I
think that's what a lot ofpastors would like to see their
church be more racially mixed,but they're not willing to share
(31:02):
influence.
They might even share somelevels of leadership.
We'll let you be a leader,we'll let you lead the singing,
we'll let you do the worship,but it's influence that you've
got to be willing to share andthat is to allow others to share
decision-making help.
You know, ultimately the seniorleader, you know, has to.
(31:24):
The vision has to bearticulated and brought through
him.
But that vision has to begathered to me from many
directions, you know, and andthat's where that influence, you
know, we had to decide I hope Ihope I'm saying this OK and not
in an offensive way we had todecide early on.
(31:44):
We're not going to look like awhite church.
We're not going to.
We're not going to look likewe're going to allow the people
we're trying to reach toinfluence what this church looks
like Intuit church, the waythis church, the way we do
church, everything from themusic on down, you know, to
(32:10):
maybe even to the some of thisstyle of preaching.
You know, we, everybody, hastheir own style.
You know, I don't try to mimicany other style of preaching,
but I love to have other pastorsin my pulpit that have a
totally different style, but yetthey, you know, they have the
(32:30):
anointing, but yet they, youknow, they have the anointing
and we want our people to notonly be exposed to that, to be
embraced, to draw from thatbecause I know I'm not the whole
package, you know, and, butagain, I think that goes to this
idea of of influence you haveto allow.
You have to allow thatinfluence and to begin to shape
(32:54):
what the church looks like andthen follow that and lead that
and seek God's guidance allalong.
Of course everything has to besaturated in prayer.
I know I don't have to tell youguys anything about that, but
when you saturate constantlyeverything in prayer, then you
kind of find where you may needto step right instead of left at
(33:17):
some point and bring correctionto some area that may be
getting a little bit out ofbalance.
You know, if you do that just byyour own thinking boy, you
begin to misstep I've done thatby mistake before and just
saturate everything in prayerand then, when you look back,
(33:38):
the most amazing part is lookingin the rearview mirror and then
saying, wow, look what God isdoing here.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, but you got to keep out on the road if you
don't want to run over somebody.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
You got that right.
You can only look backwardswhat they say 2% of the time,
98% of the time.
You better be looking throughthat right.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
You can only look backwards what they say Two
percent of the time, 98 percentof the time you better be
looking through that windshieldor you're going to crash, I
agree.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
That's been your heart.
You preach in our church.
We've spent lots of timetogether, nettie.
Is that you?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
know intentionality.
Even when it's uncomfortable,you've got to be intentional.
I'm captured by theintentionality piece.
I have a good friend who talksabout the idea that missiology
or missions, the nature ofmissions in the church, begins
with an accurate understandingof the neighborhood.
(34:37):
You know that oftentimeschurches would like to engage on
mission, but they're not reallyinterested in understanding the
context that God has placedthem in.
They're not interested inunderstanding their neighbors or
they're not interested inallowing the aesthetic and the
appearance of the church to takeon the neighbors.
And so they want to reach theirneighbors, but they don't ever
(34:59):
want the church to look liketheir neighbors.
And it's like how can thechurch accurately reach a
neighborhood that they're notinterested in actually becoming?
Hey, so, pastor Mike and NettieAlston, this is an incredible
dialogue, an incredibleconversation.
So incredible to me not asincredible as the friends that I
have of Nettie Winters andAustin Hoyle, but an incredible
(35:21):
conversation that's soincredible to me.
I feel like we need to breakthis into two parts, and so what
we'll do is we're going to puta bow on this conversation for
now.
Put a bow on this conversationfor now.
If you're listening, please feelfree to go out, like, share and
subscribe to Living Reconciled.
You can find us on any podcastapp by searching on Living
Reconciled Again, livingReconciled by Mission
(35:43):
Mississippi, and search on anypodcast app and that will get
you to us.
We would love for you tocontinue not only to listen to
this episode and listen to otherepisodes that we have, but we
would love for you to share themas well.
That's how we get this word outand how we get the message out.
So please again, we're going toput the bow on part one Come
back and join us for part two ofthis podcast episode with
(36:08):
Pastor Mike Fields, pastor ofTriumph Church.
God bless God bless.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
(36:29):
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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