August 29, 2025 • 32 mins
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What does a truly multi-ethnic church look like? Pastor Mike Fields of Triumph Church in Vicksburg shares nearly 30 years of experience leading a congregation that reflects its community’s diversity. From embracing cultural expressions of the gospel to rejecting partisan divides, Fields offers practical wisdom for building unity in the body of Christ.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation on reconciliation and authentic Christian unity.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
This is episode 82.5, I guesswe could say, since we decided
(00:38):
to break this up into two parts.
But I'm your host, brianCrawford.
I'm hanging out with theincredible friends Nettie
Winters, austin Hoyle.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Gentlemen, how are you doing today?
I'm great man.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm just glad to be an incredible friend, as always.
Yeah, I know, are you?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
excited about our first .5 episode, Nettie.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, I guess I'm a half incredible friend then.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I just, I don't know about you, man.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You just wanted to do an additional episode, just so
you could.
You could have the privilege ofcalling us incredible again,
but yes, you don't need to makeup excuses, brian, you can just
do it, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, I will keep doing it, man, but before I do
that, I want to give a specialthanks to our sponsors
Mississippi College, andersonUnited Methodist Church, grace
Temple Church, mississippi StateUniversity, real Christian
Foundation, nissan, st Dominic'sHospital, atmos Energy Regions
Foundation, brown MissionaryBaptist Church, christian Life
Church, ms Doris Powell, robertWard and Winters.
Thank you so much for all ofour supporters, whether you be
(01:46):
churches, businesses,individuals, foundations, for
your incredible support ofMission Mississippi.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and we would love for you tojoin that illustrious list of
individuals, churches andcompanies.
You can do that by visitingmissionmississippiorg, click on
the Donate, invest, Supportbutton, and that will give you
(02:06):
the opportunity to join thatlist of great people who make
Mission Mississippi possible.
Today we are continuing ourconversation with our good
friend, pastor of Triumph Church, mike.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Fields.
Well, Mike Fields is anincredible friend For real.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Anyway, right back is an incredible friend For real.
Anyway, right back at you,Nettie, and Austin as well.
Great to be among friends.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yes, sir, absolutely.
And so I love hearing what youwere describing, mike, in terms
of from the very outset ofFriant Church, it was a
commitment to say, okay, whenthe neighborhood shows up, we're
going to seed influence, we'regoing to seed ground, we're
going to seed style andappearance and culture and and
(02:56):
musical expression.
We're going to seed that to theneighborhood itself.
We're not going to say, oh well, we want the neighborhood, but
we want them to adopt, uh,everything that we, we, we have
already kind of ready made andboilerplate established for them
, but we know we're going to seethat I feel like I feel like
the Lord is is oftentimesdriving reconciliation to the
(03:18):
neighborhood is a reconciliationof their, their aesthetic and
their and their genre and theirstyle, and so all of that.
So they're going to bring astyle of music that might look
and sound different than mine,but God is coming to reconcile
that and to and to and to bringglory and his glory through that
(03:40):
style, through that genre, andso do we have, do we have room
for that?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Because if we say we got room for the neighborhood,
then we have to create.
They call thatcontextualization.
Yes, yes, yes, I think a lot ofa lot of churches need to
revisit you know that strategy.
We're supposed to be able tocontextualize the gospel to the
(04:20):
people, to reach people we'retrying to reach, and I think
that's.
I think when we don't, whenwe're not intentional about
sharing influence, then we'rekind of short-circuiting the
contextualization.
Because we have to do that.
I mean because you know thegospel, the gospel fits every
(04:42):
contextualization, but if we'renot careful we can so modify it
to fit our own context that wemake it of non-effect to the
people we're trying to reach.
And I give credit to my dad, aswe always called him.
(05:03):
The founding elder Churchactually started in his house.
But our first pastor, chazBosar, our second pastor, dan
Landry, both of those men spentfour and five years apiece here.
I served them, I built up ontheir shoulders because this was
very much in their heart.
So I don't take credit for that, but I got to be a part of that
(05:26):
early on and to pick thatmantle up of recognizing.
You know that we've got to looklike our city in everything we
do the way.
We have church in ourleadership and we've got to look
like and I think, if you backup, we were.
Hopefully we're trying tocontextualize the gospel to the
(05:49):
audience.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You know if.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
God plants us in New York City, we're going to have
to contextualize it differently.
If he plants us in a country inSouth Africa, we're going to
have to contextualize itdifferently.
Absolutely Every city, everyneighborhood has its own context
(06:11):
.
I guess you know, culturallyspeaking, ethnically speaking,
and our job as pastors andteachers that are called to
reach that community is tocontextualize the gospel to them
.
We've got to be willing toadjust to the community if we're
going to reach the community.
Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid you knowagain not being judgmental, but
(06:35):
I'm afraid a lot of churchesare missing that dynamic of
reaching their city.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know when we think about Acts 15.
Oh, go jump in in, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, no, I was at least the totality of the city,
because there's some churchesthat are good at reaching small
slithers of the city.
Yeah, but my vision is that youwant to see anyone from any
walk of life throughout the cityof Vicksburg being able to walk
in through your doors and beable to find, maybe not
(07:07):
something that looks and feelslike them personally,
individually, but they're ableto see a gospel.
That is engaging, maybe notfamiliar, but engaging, because
you can't establish familiaritywhen you're trying to be open to
(07:27):
that many people, but you canestablish engagement with that
many people.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Well said, austin.
Yeah, I like the way you saidthat we, you know we don't.
Everybody don't have to fitwhat we're trying to be.
Yeah, but if we're all a partof the same body, there should
be levels of engagement.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
You know whether we go to the, whether we worship in
the same building Sundaymorning or not.
There should be levels ofengagement that people should
know very quickly.
Hey, we're on the same teamhere, we're serving the same,
we're trying to accomplish thesame things, we're promoting the
same gospel, building the samekingdom, and that I like the way
(08:10):
you said that.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I love Acts 15.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Acts 15, man, it's right in
line with what we're having,this conversation where it leads
to basically the council saying, hey, let's not add any burden
to the gospel, let's not addcultural burden to the gospel,
right, and they distill it downto its potency, to its essence,
(08:39):
so that, as it's being advancedin all of these different places
and spaces, right, it takes it.
The gospel has the flexibilityto take on the cultural shape of
wherever it is without losingits potency, right and so and so
what you see, as they'regathering in, the elders and
apostles are gathering andhaving conversations about the
(09:01):
advancement of the gospel.
They, they just feel it andthey say here is the essence,
right, don't add, don't bringthese cultural elements from
this place and this place to tryto say, hey, you got to do it
this way in order to be saved.
No, no, no, don't do that.
Distill it down to its potencyso that when it goes, it can
invade the world and it can takeon the cultural shapes and
(09:22):
dynamics of neighborhoods andcities and communities, while
maintaining its potency.
Right, and that's really whatit boils down to is, how do we
not compromise the gospel, buthow do we take the power and
potency that's in it andmobilize it into these different
spaces and places.
And I think we get that when weprepare to pack our bags and
(09:44):
travel overseas.
The challenge is, do we get thatwhen we're prepared to grab our
casserole dish and travelacross the street?
Right, and that's where westruggle.
It's like we get it when we'retraveling overseas, but, man,
the nations are here, they're inour backyards, all these
different cultures and all thesedifferent people are here, and
so do we get that?
(10:05):
As it relates to care man, wecould talk for hours, but I know
we got to put a cap.
Let me, let me ask you thispastor um, what, what has
changed for you?
You've been, you've been in the.
You've been in the trenches ofmulti-ethnic ministry 30 years
now, right, and then leadingtriumph to 25.
You said 25 or plus, or 20?
Almost 26 years, yeah, soyou've been in this multi-ethnic
(10:31):
ministry space for decades,literal decades.
What do you see as the shiftsand the challenges between when
you first entered, late 90s, towhere we are today, 2025?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
the challenges from from 25 years ago to where we
are now.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, what's the major shifts for you and the and
the major challenges that thatmulti-ethnic ministry faces
today versus what they werefacing back then?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well, you know, I don't, I think more so today.
Um, we, we have to, we have toput in perspective those things
in our culture, in our societythat we can't allow to divide us
.
And of course, politics, ofcourse, I think, is much more
(11:30):
divisive now than it was in 1990.
Much more divisive now than itwas in 1990.
And you know, I think that bothsides, if we could say, you
know, we've got primarily twoperspectives in American
politics, if both sides, as aChristian, I've long since
believed that I'm, you know, Ifeel politically homeless and
(11:52):
that's fine, I don't need that.
And I think if we're notcareful, whether you're on one
side or the other, the minuteyou try to start stacking up
wins on your side in other words, there's more in favor of being
this than that we start losingour effectiveness.
(12:16):
I keep thinking back to you knowhow, if I could say, like
anti-political Jesus was, hedidn't, you know, he didn't
forbid people.
In fact, I think he could makethe case where, you know, every
Christian should be involved atsome level.
But at the same time, I thinkJesus made it clear that we, as
(12:36):
believers, you've got to abandonany sense of identity politics,
because it's going to workagainst us, and it's never going
(13:08):
to.
If you lean one direction orthe other and you're willing to
divide over that, it's nevergoing to serve the gospel well.
And I just, you know, I thinktoo, as preachers of the gospel,
we're constantly pointing,reminding people that you know,
we're in this world but we'renot of this world.
(13:29):
We're supposed to be a part ofa kingdom influence that is
greater than anything, and youknow.
So we have to limit how muchidentity we take on of that.
And I'm still you know it'sstill every election cycle, you
know it's the most dreadedseason for me, because I just
(13:50):
feel like I'm trying to mediate,you know, and I don't feel
compelled to have to, you know,to take a position in the pulpit
, but I'm just talking about,you know, a church.
That that you know you want.
You want your peoplefellowshipping together, you
want them going to small grouptogether.
It's amazing how much in ourtraining we have to say now, be
careful here, stay away fromthis, because it is such a hot
(14:13):
topic and so quickly it can.
It can, can overshadow thegospel.
I think, brian, somebodymentioned earlier it may have
been Austin if we could justremove the distractions, the
gospel, the simplicity of thegospel will do what it's
supposed to do.
The simplicity of the gospelwill do what it's supposed to do
and I think that's where we'reat again is we've got to
(14:36):
constantly, you know, keep thegospel, the simple good news
that it is, and it will bringpeople together and remembering,
you know, that culture, if wesee it, I think we see it
correctly.
Culture is something Godinvented.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
When he divided the nations at Babel, cultures began
to evolve.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That was part of God's plan.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So every culture is something, in a sense, that God
birthed through a group ofpeople, and so when we bring
those different cultures intothe church, it should be in a
way that they just bring flavorand influence to the gospel,
(15:29):
never losing the simplicity ofthe gospel.
Don't let those things becomethe gospel, but they become, I
guess you know, a flavor we cancolor in the church, in a way,
the way God intended, because,hey, my culture, your culture,
may be a little different,because each one was uniquely
(15:52):
formed by God through people.
And so I think that's why wehave to become so multicultural
minded that if we're going to beeffective in reaching the
masses, we've got to recognizethat.
You know, the gospel ismulticultural and it goes right
(16:14):
back to what Nettie said, youknow, and from Ephesians If you
don't believe in a multiculturalgospel, you're not reading the
same Bible that I tend to read,you know.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, you know, mike, you used the word flavor.
You know I like gumbo,different soups, different meats
, but when the seasoning becomesa permanent taste and you no
longer taste the meat, thenthere you go, and I think it's
(16:48):
the body we allow our culture,our color, our customs, that
other stuff that you talkedabout I won't even say it to
become the center, rather thanChrist being the center.
So, as my chicken and my fishis the center of things, I want
to enhance that flavor as muchas I can.
(17:09):
So I use a variety of recipesand seasonings to do that.
But I don't want to lose focusof the fact that I started to
eat fish and I don't want tobecome anything else other than
fish.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And you know it's like salt, you know seasoning,
salt being the primary seasoning, the right amount can wake up
the flavor of the meal likenothing, can you know.
But when you begin to taste thesalt and it begins to, when it
gets strong enough that youtaste it, I think you're already
(17:43):
in the danger zone there.
And then eventually, like toNettie's point, it can become
like man, I love chicken but Ican't.
I can't take this and so, yeah,can't take this.
So yeah, culture, that's agreat way.
The gospel, you know, goddesigned the gospel to be spiced
with culture.
(18:04):
That's a good way.
I think that's what we'resaying here.
I like that.
I like that.
I'm about to remember that.
Yeah, and I think you know, themore we balance that, the more
we have of that, the more thebroader our tent can become.
Yes, I think they're going tobe, I think they're going to be
faithful pastors in heaven.
(18:24):
That man, they preach thegospel faithfully and they never
maybe they never passed at achurch over 50 and they're going
to have great reward in heaven.
But at the same time, I justfeel compelled that we've got to
make our tent as wide as wepossible can because ultimately,
(18:45):
he came to seek and to savethat which is lost.
And as long as I don't know thestats, but as long as I would
say the vast majority of ourcity is lost and don't have a
relationship with Christ, you'vegot to thank Big Tent.
We've got to thank Big Tent.
I call it kingdom thinking,kingdom, thinking exactly the
(19:10):
borders of our tent to reachmore people, which means we're
going to have to make it lessabout us and more about what it
takes to reach people with thegospel Contextualization.
That's what we're back to.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Right and I like that , I like what everything we're
talking about and of course, Idon't think that we're at risk
of doing that here.
But one of the things I've seenis creating an abstraction out
of the gospel.
You've just made it out of acertain set of principles and
then, once we create theprinciples, we don't dig back
(19:46):
into the Bible to understand howthe gospel really interacted
with the culture that God isinteracting with in the, uh, in
the, in the scripture.
I never, never.
I want to make sure we're neverforgetting that piece.
You know, I've, I've read somany catechisms, so many
different creeds, uh, everytradition seems to have a, you
(20:07):
know, um, a set of doctrinalbeliefs, uh, and everything like
that, which I think are great.
I love them, even when theycontend with one another.
I love it.
But what I think that shouldconstantly call us back to is to
reading the scripture to seeexactly how God and God's divine
action worked with humanity inthat time, because that will
(20:28):
teach us how to contextualizeour mission.
And I never want to get thatjust by.
You know, never want totruncate I don't think that's
what we're doing here buttruncate the gospel to a set of
principles.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I mean, in fact also, I would even argue that, yeah,
I would argue, austin, that evena lot of times when we think
about the role and the purpose,you know not to get too heavy
and too deep when we think aboutthe role and purposes of the
creeds, they were in many casesanswering a cultural moment.
(21:02):
You know they were actuallytaking what the Bible was saying
about a specific thing andaddressing what was going on.
Whether you were talking aboutNicaea or you go all the way to,
you know Edinburgh or you knowyou advance to all these
different places where culturesand creeds were formulated, they
were engaging the culture.
And what happens a lot of times, like you said, is we can kind
(21:23):
of take the creeds and removethem from the reality that they
were in the midst of culturalengagement and forget that we
still have to do that work.
We still have to take ourBibles and engage our cultural
moment with um in terms of themoments that we're in and the
spaces that we're in with theBibles that got, the same Bibles
(21:43):
that God has given us.
So, 100% to your point, agreeto it.
Let me let me wrap up.
Actually, this, uh, pastor, itcalls us out what, what it pulls
us out, what is bringing youhope?
Not hope, that's a poor way tophrase it no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Well, you know just that.
I believe that there is aespecially in the Gen Z and I
guess we've got Gen Alpha nowbut especially in Gen Z, I think
that they are more excitedabout multicultural ministry and
(22:23):
seeing living outreconciliation than ever.
You know, I know that we'vealways, as we preach and teach
and pastor, we've always got tohave the mindset okay, how am I
passing this on to the nextgeneration?
And I'm really excited about,you know, what we see in our
(22:47):
church, especially in Gen Z, andI guess even those of their 30s
and 40s that have two or threechildren, that they see the
value of being a part ofmulticultural church.
I've had so many families comehere, some black, some white,
(23:13):
but they would get around tosaying to me we came here
because we want our children togrow up in a multicultural
church and that meant a lot.
I'm thinking that's goingbeyond.
They're saying more than justsaying, hey, I like the
atmosphere, we like the music,we want to be a part of this.
(23:36):
But they specifically saidwe're here because we want our
children this is the gospelexpression we want them to grow
up in.
And I say you know both blackand white families, I could name
them now I won't do that.
That's how they came here andI'm thinking, okay, we're
(23:57):
getting somewhere, because I'vealways felt like, you know, as
long as there's sin in the world, we're going to be battling
racism and other things, I'msure.
But I feel like that.
Our greatest hope is to see ourchildren take the mantle,
(24:19):
without the distractions,without the restrictions,
without the baggage, if I cansay that sometime of the
previous generations, andrunning with this thing, the
gospel and multi-ethnic ministry, and seeing that, hey, at the
heart of what a church should bewould be that it embraces
(24:40):
everybody in my city.
I'm excited about that.
I'm excited, I feel good about,you know, the next generation,
uh and uh, I've often, you know,said, when I've done series and
spoke on racial reconciliationhere at the church and other
places, is that, you know, oneof the greatest places to deal
(25:04):
with racism is at your kitchentable and um, start with your
family, start with your children, start with answering questions
and re, re, reshaping maybewhat they're hearing at school
or what they heard from grandmaand grandpa.
You know, uh, there may be somethings that you need to re.
(25:25):
You need to re, you need to reinform, you need to reteach
those things, you know.
And I remember to our church acouple of times and he's always
been very special in my life andhe preached a message on
(25:48):
reconciliation one time and hereferenced Gideon's father.
I'm probably going to say thiswrong, so I don't want to
dishonor him but he said youknow, I think it was Gideon's
father that built an altar tohis father's God, you know,
rather than to the living God,and Gideon had to tear that
altar down.
And you know, we love, justlike I mentioned, my
(26:13):
grandparents.
My grandparents were very, theyvery much embraced
multiculturalism and but at thesame time we've all got, you
know, and it generally comesfrom our family lineage, that
our kids are exposed to hearingthings that we need to make sure
we're correcting Maybe thekitchen table is the best way to
(26:35):
do that to make sure that Gen Z, the next generation, that
we're passing this on to that,that that that they can benefit
from some of the victories we'vealready won.
And because they're going tohave their own challenges in the
generation they're going toreach, and you know, politically
(26:56):
and otherwise, and they, youknow, they've got to know how to
overcome those things and so ifthey could benefit from the
victories, they could stand onour shoulders.
That's what I want to see andI'm excited about that.
I just more and more.
I just we just come back fromwhere our students just come
back from a big conference inBirmingham.
(27:17):
That would have been, yeah,probably, it's close to 50, 50
mixed, and there was there was18000 students in that arena.
So I say, wow, man, I'm soexcited about what's going on in
this generation.
I think that Brian and Austinand Nettie, I think in some
(27:39):
sense that they're building onmaybe what we've laid the
foundation for, you know, and tome that's so exciting.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopefulin that the next generation is
going to get this right.
It's not going to be one onepreacher, one teacher, one book.
We need all of those things,you know, and but it's, it's the
(28:01):
next generation that that Ithink, that they're, they're,
they're going to, they're comingto the to the game, equipped,
better equipped than we were.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Man.
Amen, pastors man, thank you somuch for your time today.
This has been a very fruitfuland convicting and encouraging
podcast for us and obviously wegleaned a lot.
I certainly gleaned a lot.
I certainly gleaned a lot and Ihope our listeners who are
listening in I hope they gleanedan incredible amount as well.
(28:32):
How can folks keep up withPastor Mike Fields and Triumph
Church?
Where do they need to go?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Thank you, brian.
Well, you know our church'swebsite, tcvicksburgcom, and of
course that's our onlinepresence and we stream our
services.
On Sunday morning we actuallydo two services.
They're basically alike, so youcan kind of take your choice,
but you can stream at 9 or 1045.
And then, of course, thoseservices are archived on our
(29:01):
website after the fact and soyou can get on there, learn
about our church and a littlebit of our stories on there.
But also, if you're notinvolved in a local church, you
know and you want to check usout.
Everything is online there.
(29:22):
We're getting ready for ourfall semester of small groups is
kicking off and we're in weekthree of 21 days of prayer this
week.
We do that twice a year here atchurch, and so we're excited
about what God is doing Fall.
I think you guys would probablyagree that in your churches
that for some reason, fall seemslike a harvest.
(29:45):
I know it's a harvest season inthe natural, but it seems like
that in the spiritual too, andso we're gearing up for an
exciting harvest season.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Now, Mike, you gave that website.
Slow it down this time and giveit to us again.
But also you got some oldschool guys like Austin need a
telephone number or email orsomething, or a street address
or street address or something.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
The website tcvicksburgcom is our church
website and of course I welcomeanyone that would want to email
pastormike at tcvicksburgcom ismy email address there.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And so we're.
We'd love to hear from you guysand and connect any way that
you'd like to reach out to us.
Fantastic, fantastic pastor.
It's been again, an incredibleprivilege and pleasure to have
you join us and for those of youall who are listening on, feel
free to continue to listen tothis podcast.
Please feel free to share itAlso.
You can also go to any podcastapp.
Make sure you like andsubscribe.
(30:55):
It helps, helps get the word outabout this podcast and the
great guests that we get achance to interview as we tell
the story of reconciliationacross the state of Mississippi
and beyond.
It's your, your listening andyour sharing that helps us do
that, so please don't hesitateto do so Again.
It's been a great privilege tohave Pastor Mike Fields on this
(31:18):
episode of Living Reconciled.
I am your host, brian Crawford,with my good co-host and
friends Nettie Winters, austinHoyle, signing off saying God
bless, god bless, thank you, godbless you.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(31:41):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
This is episode 82.5, I guesswe could say, since we decided
(00:38):
to break this up into two parts.
But I'm your host, brianCrawford.
I'm hanging out with theincredible friends Nettie
Winters, austin Hoyle.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Gentlemen, how are you doing today?
I'm great man.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm just glad to be an incredible friend, as always.
Yeah, I know, are you?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
excited about our first .5 episode, Nettie.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, I guess I'm a half incredible friend then.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I just, I don't know about you, man.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You just wanted to do an additional episode, just so
you could.
You could have the privilege ofcalling us incredible again,
but yes, you don't need to makeup excuses, brian, you can just
do it, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Well, I will keep doing it, man, but before I do
that, I want to give a specialthanks to our sponsors
Mississippi College, andersonUnited Methodist Church, grace
Temple Church, mississippi StateUniversity, real Christian
Foundation, nissan, st Dominic'sHospital, atmos Energy Regions
Foundation, brown MissionaryBaptist Church, christian Life
Church, ms Doris Powell, robertWard and Winters.
Thank you so much for all ofour supporters, whether you be
(01:46):
churches, businesses,individuals, foundations, for
your incredible support ofMission Mississippi.
It's because of what you dothat we're able to do what we do
, and we would love for you tojoin that illustrious list of
individuals, churches andcompanies.
You can do that by visitingmissionmississippiorg, click on
the Donate, invest, Supportbutton, and that will give you
(02:06):
the opportunity to join thatlist of great people who make
Mission Mississippi possible.
Today we are continuing ourconversation with our good
friend, pastor of Triumph Church, mike.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Fields.
Well, Mike Fields is anincredible friend For real.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Anyway, right back is an incredible friend For real.
Anyway, right back at you,Nettie, and Austin as well.
Great to be among friends.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yes, sir, absolutely.
And so I love hearing what youwere describing, mike, in terms
of from the very outset ofFriant Church, it was a
commitment to say, okay, whenthe neighborhood shows up, we're
going to seed influence, we'regoing to seed ground, we're
going to seed style andappearance and culture and and
(02:56):
musical expression.
We're going to seed that to theneighborhood itself.
We're not going to say, oh well, we want the neighborhood, but
we want them to adopt, uh,everything that we, we, we have
already kind of ready made andboilerplate established for them
, but we know we're going to seethat I feel like I feel like
the Lord is is oftentimesdriving reconciliation to the
(03:18):
neighborhood is a reconciliationof their, their aesthetic and
their and their genre and theirstyle, and so all of that.
So they're going to bring astyle of music that might look
and sound different than mine,but God is coming to reconcile
that and to and to and to bringglory and his glory through that
(03:40):
style, through that genre, andso do we have, do we have room
for that?
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Because if we say we got room for the neighborhood,
then we have to create.
They call thatcontextualization.
Yes, yes, yes, I think a lot ofa lot of churches need to
revisit you know that strategy.
We're supposed to be able tocontextualize the gospel to the
(04:20):
people, to reach people we'retrying to reach, and I think
that's.
I think when we don't, whenwe're not intentional about
sharing influence, then we'rekind of short-circuiting the
contextualization.
Because we have to do that.
I mean because you know thegospel, the gospel fits every
(04:42):
contextualization, but if we'renot careful we can so modify it
to fit our own context that wemake it of non-effect to the
people we're trying to reach.
And I give credit to my dad, aswe always called him.
(05:03):
The founding elder Churchactually started in his house.
But our first pastor, chazBosar, our second pastor, dan
Landry, both of those men spentfour and five years apiece here.
I served them, I built up ontheir shoulders because this was
very much in their heart.
So I don't take credit for that, but I got to be a part of that
(05:26):
early on and to pick thatmantle up of recognizing.
You know that we've got to looklike our city in everything we
do the way.
We have church in ourleadership and we've got to look
like and I think, if you backup, we were.
Hopefully we're trying tocontextualize the gospel to the
(05:49):
audience.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
You know if.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
God plants us in New York City, we're going to have
to contextualize it differently.
If he plants us in a country inSouth Africa, we're going to
have to contextualize itdifferently.
Absolutely Every city, everyneighborhood has its own context
(06:11):
.
I guess you know, culturallyspeaking, ethnically speaking,
and our job as pastors andteachers that are called to
reach that community is tocontextualize the gospel to them
.
We've got to be willing toadjust to the community if we're
going to reach the community.
Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid you knowagain not being judgmental, but
(06:35):
I'm afraid a lot of churchesare missing that dynamic of
reaching their city.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know when we think about Acts 15.
Oh, go jump in in, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
No, no, I was at least the totality of the city,
because there's some churchesthat are good at reaching small
slithers of the city.
Yeah, but my vision is that youwant to see anyone from any
walk of life throughout the cityof Vicksburg being able to walk
in through your doors and beable to find, maybe not
(07:07):
something that looks and feelslike them personally,
individually, but they're ableto see a gospel.
That is engaging, maybe notfamiliar, but engaging, because
you can't establish familiaritywhen you're trying to be open to
(07:27):
that many people, but you canestablish engagement with that
many people.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
Well said, austin.
Yeah, I like the way you saidthat we, you know we don't.
Everybody don't have to fitwhat we're trying to be.
Yeah, but if we're all a partof the same body, there should
be levels of engagement.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
You know whether we go to the, whether we worship in
the same building Sundaymorning or not.
There should be levels ofengagement that people should
know very quickly.
Hey, we're on the same teamhere, we're serving the same,
we're trying to accomplish thesame things, we're promoting the
same gospel, building the samekingdom, and that I like the way
(08:10):
you said that.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I love Acts 15.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Acts 15, man, it's right in
line with what we're having,this conversation where it leads
to basically the council saying, hey, let's not add any burden
to the gospel, let's not addcultural burden to the gospel,
right, and they distill it downto its potency, to its essence,
(08:39):
so that, as it's being advancedin all of these different places
and spaces, right, it takes it.
The gospel has the flexibilityto take on the cultural shape of
wherever it is without losingits potency, right and so and so
what you see, as they'regathering in, the elders and
apostles are gathering andhaving conversations about the
(09:01):
advancement of the gospel.
They, they just feel it andthey say here is the essence,
right, don't add, don't bringthese cultural elements from
this place and this place to tryto say, hey, you got to do it
this way in order to be saved.
No, no, no, don't do that.
Distill it down to its potencyso that when it goes, it can
invade the world and it can takeon the cultural shapes and
(09:22):
dynamics of neighborhoods andcities and communities, while
maintaining its potency.
Right, and that's really whatit boils down to is, how do we
not compromise the gospel, buthow do we take the power and
potency that's in it andmobilize it into these different
spaces and places.
And I think we get that when weprepare to pack our bags and
(09:44):
travel overseas.
The challenge is, do we get thatwhen we're prepared to grab our
casserole dish and travelacross the street?
Right, and that's where westruggle.
It's like we get it when we'retraveling overseas, but, man,
the nations are here, they're inour backyards, all these
different cultures and all thesedifferent people are here, and
so do we get that?
(10:05):
As it relates to care man, wecould talk for hours, but I know
we got to put a cap.
Let me, let me ask you thispastor um, what, what has
changed for you?
You've been, you've been in the.
You've been in the trenches ofmulti-ethnic ministry 30 years
now, right, and then leadingtriumph to 25.
You said 25 or plus, or 20?
Almost 26 years, yeah, soyou've been in this multi-ethnic
(10:31):
ministry space for decades,literal decades.
What do you see as the shiftsand the challenges between when
you first entered, late 90s, towhere we are today, 2025?
Speaker 4 (10:50):
the challenges from from 25 years ago to where we
are now.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, what's the major shifts for you and the and
the major challenges that thatmulti-ethnic ministry faces
today versus what they werefacing back then?
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well, you know, I don't, I think more so today.
Um, we, we have to, we have toput in perspective those things
in our culture, in our societythat we can't allow to divide us
.
And of course, politics, ofcourse, I think, is much more
(11:30):
divisive now than it was in 1990.
Much more divisive now than itwas in 1990.
And you know, I think that bothsides, if we could say, you
know, we've got primarily twoperspectives in American
politics, if both sides, as aChristian, I've long since
believed that I'm, you know, Ifeel politically homeless and
(11:52):
that's fine, I don't need that.
And I think if we're notcareful, whether you're on one
side or the other, the minuteyou try to start stacking up
wins on your side in other words, there's more in favor of being
this than that we start losingour effectiveness.
(12:16):
I keep thinking back to you knowhow, if I could say, like
anti-political Jesus was, hedidn't, you know, he didn't
forbid people.
In fact, I think he could makethe case where, you know, every
Christian should be involved atsome level.
But at the same time, I thinkJesus made it clear that we, as
(12:36):
believers, you've got to abandonany sense of identity politics,
because it's going to workagainst us, and it's never going
(13:08):
to.
If you lean one direction orthe other and you're willing to
divide over that, it's nevergoing to serve the gospel well.
And I just, you know, I thinktoo, as preachers of the gospel,
we're constantly pointing,reminding people that you know,
we're in this world but we'renot of this world.
(13:29):
We're supposed to be a part ofa kingdom influence that is
greater than anything, and youknow.
So we have to limit how muchidentity we take on of that.
And I'm still you know it'sstill every election cycle, you
know it's the most dreadedseason for me, because I just
(13:50):
feel like I'm trying to mediate,you know, and I don't feel
compelled to have to, you know,to take a position in the pulpit
, but I'm just talking about,you know, a church.
That that you know you want.
You want your peoplefellowshipping together, you
want them going to small grouptogether.
It's amazing how much in ourtraining we have to say now, be
careful here, stay away fromthis, because it is such a hot
(14:13):
topic and so quickly it can.
It can, can overshadow thegospel.
I think, brian, somebodymentioned earlier it may have
been Austin if we could justremove the distractions, the
gospel, the simplicity of thegospel will do what it's
supposed to do.
The simplicity of the gospelwill do what it's supposed to do
and I think that's where we'reat again is we've got to
(14:36):
constantly, you know, keep thegospel, the simple good news
that it is, and it will bringpeople together and remembering,
you know, that culture, if wesee it, I think we see it
correctly.
Culture is something Godinvented.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
When he divided the nations at Babel, cultures began
to evolve.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That was part of God's plan.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So every culture is something, in a sense, that God
birthed through a group ofpeople, and so when we bring
those different cultures intothe church, it should be in a
way that they just bring flavorand influence to the gospel,
(15:29):
never losing the simplicity ofthe gospel.
Don't let those things becomethe gospel, but they become, I
guess you know, a flavor we cancolor in the church, in a way,
the way God intended, because,hey, my culture, your culture,
may be a little different,because each one was uniquely
(15:52):
formed by God through people.
And so I think that's why wehave to become so multicultural
minded that if we're going to beeffective in reaching the
masses, we've got to recognizethat.
You know, the gospel ismulticultural and it goes right
(16:14):
back to what Nettie said, youknow, and from Ephesians If you
don't believe in a multiculturalgospel, you're not reading the
same Bible that I tend to read,you know.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, you know, mike, you used the word flavor.
You know I like gumbo,different soups, different meats
, but when the seasoning becomesa permanent taste and you no
longer taste the meat, thenthere you go, and I think it's
(16:48):
the body we allow our culture,our color, our customs, that
other stuff that you talkedabout I won't even say it to
become the center, rather thanChrist being the center.
So, as my chicken and my fishis the center of things, I want
to enhance that flavor as muchas I can.
(17:09):
So I use a variety of recipesand seasonings to do that.
But I don't want to lose focusof the fact that I started to
eat fish and I don't want tobecome anything else other than
fish.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And you know it's like salt, you know seasoning,
salt being the primary seasoning, the right amount can wake up
the flavor of the meal likenothing, can you know.
But when you begin to taste thesalt and it begins to, when it
gets strong enough that youtaste it, I think you're already
(17:43):
in the danger zone there.
And then eventually, like toNettie's point, it can become
like man, I love chicken but Ican't.
I can't take this and so, yeah,can't take this.
So yeah, culture, that's agreat way.
The gospel, you know, goddesigned the gospel to be spiced
with culture.
(18:04):
That's a good way.
I think that's what we'resaying here.
I like that.
I like that.
I'm about to remember that.
Yeah, and I think you know, themore we balance that, the more
we have of that, the more thebroader our tent can become.
Yes, I think they're going tobe, I think they're going to be
faithful pastors in heaven.
(18:24):
That man, they preach thegospel faithfully and they never
maybe they never passed at achurch over 50 and they're going
to have great reward in heaven.
But at the same time, I justfeel compelled that we've got to
make our tent as wide as wepossible can because ultimately,
(18:45):
he came to seek and to savethat which is lost.
And as long as I don't know thestats, but as long as I would
say the vast majority of ourcity is lost and don't have a
relationship with Christ, you'vegot to thank Big Tent.
We've got to thank Big Tent.
I call it kingdom thinking,kingdom, thinking exactly the
(19:10):
borders of our tent to reachmore people, which means we're
going to have to make it lessabout us and more about what it
takes to reach people with thegospel Contextualization.
That's what we're back to.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Right and I like that , I like what everything we're
talking about and of course, Idon't think that we're at risk
of doing that here.
But one of the things I've seenis creating an abstraction out
of the gospel.
You've just made it out of acertain set of principles and
then, once we create theprinciples, we don't dig back
(19:46):
into the Bible to understand howthe gospel really interacted
with the culture that God isinteracting with in the, uh, in
the, in the scripture.
I never, never.
I want to make sure we're neverforgetting that piece.
You know, I've, I've read somany catechisms, so many
different creeds, uh, everytradition seems to have a, you
(20:07):
know, um, a set of doctrinalbeliefs, uh, and everything like
that, which I think are great.
I love them, even when theycontend with one another.
I love it.
But what I think that shouldconstantly call us back to is to
reading the scripture to seeexactly how God and God's divine
action worked with humanity inthat time, because that will
(20:28):
teach us how to contextualizeour mission.
And I never want to get thatjust by.
You know, never want totruncate I don't think that's
what we're doing here buttruncate the gospel to a set of
principles.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I mean, in fact also, I would even argue that, yeah,
I would argue, austin, that evena lot of times when we think
about the role and the purpose,you know not to get too heavy
and too deep when we think aboutthe role and purposes of the
creeds, they were in many casesanswering a cultural moment.
(21:02):
You know they were actuallytaking what the Bible was saying
about a specific thing andaddressing what was going on.
Whether you were talking aboutNicaea or you go all the way to,
you know Edinburgh or you knowyou advance to all these
different places where culturesand creeds were formulated, they
were engaging the culture.
And what happens a lot of times, like you said, is we can kind
(21:23):
of take the creeds and removethem from the reality that they
were in the midst of culturalengagement and forget that we
still have to do that work.
We still have to take ourBibles and engage our cultural
moment with um in terms of themoments that we're in and the
spaces that we're in with theBibles that got, the same Bibles
(21:43):
that God has given us.
So, 100% to your point, agreeto it.
Let me let me wrap up.
Actually, this, uh, pastor, itcalls us out what, what it pulls
us out, what is bringing youhope?
Not hope, that's a poor way tophrase it no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Well, you know just that.
I believe that there is aespecially in the Gen Z and I
guess we've got Gen Alpha nowbut especially in Gen Z, I think
that they are more excitedabout multicultural ministry and
(22:23):
seeing living outreconciliation than ever.
You know, I know that we'vealways, as we preach and teach
and pastor, we've always got tohave the mindset okay, how am I
passing this on to the nextgeneration?
And I'm really excited about,you know, what we see in our
(22:47):
church, especially in Gen Z, andI guess even those of their 30s
and 40s that have two or threechildren, that they see the
value of being a part ofmulticultural church.
I've had so many families comehere, some black, some white,
(23:13):
but they would get around tosaying to me we came here
because we want our children togrow up in a multicultural
church and that meant a lot.
I'm thinking that's goingbeyond.
They're saying more than justsaying, hey, I like the
atmosphere, we like the music,we want to be a part of this.
(23:36):
But they specifically saidwe're here because we want our
children this is the gospelexpression we want them to grow
up in.
And I say you know both blackand white families, I could name
them now I won't do that.
That's how they came here andI'm thinking, okay, we're
(23:57):
getting somewhere, because I'vealways felt like, you know, as
long as there's sin in the world, we're going to be battling
racism and other things, I'msure.
But I feel like that.
Our greatest hope is to see ourchildren take the mantle,
(24:19):
without the distractions,without the restrictions,
without the baggage, if I cansay that sometime of the
previous generations, andrunning with this thing, the
gospel and multi-ethnic ministry, and seeing that, hey, at the
heart of what a church should bewould be that it embraces
(24:40):
everybody in my city.
I'm excited about that.
I'm excited, I feel good about,you know, the next generation,
uh and uh, I've often, you know,said, when I've done series and
spoke on racial reconciliationhere at the church and other
places, is that, you know, oneof the greatest places to deal
(25:04):
with racism is at your kitchentable and um, start with your
family, start with your children, start with answering questions
and re, re, reshaping maybewhat they're hearing at school
or what they heard from grandmaand grandpa.
You know, uh, there may be somethings that you need to re.
(25:25):
You need to re, you need to reinform, you need to reteach
those things, you know.
And I remember to our church acouple of times and he's always
been very special in my life andhe preached a message on
(25:48):
reconciliation one time and hereferenced Gideon's father.
I'm probably going to say thiswrong, so I don't want to
dishonor him but he said youknow, I think it was Gideon's
father that built an altar tohis father's God, you know,
rather than to the living God,and Gideon had to tear that
altar down.
And you know, we love, justlike I mentioned, my
(26:13):
grandparents.
My grandparents were very, theyvery much embraced
multiculturalism and but at thesame time we've all got, you
know, and it generally comesfrom our family lineage, that
our kids are exposed to hearingthings that we need to make sure
we're correcting Maybe thekitchen table is the best way to
(26:35):
do that to make sure that Gen Z, the next generation, that
we're passing this on to that,that that that they can benefit
from some of the victories we'vealready won.
And because they're going tohave their own challenges in the
generation they're going toreach, and you know, politically
(26:56):
and otherwise, and they, youknow, they've got to know how to
overcome those things and so ifthey could benefit from the
victories, they could stand onour shoulders.
That's what I want to see andI'm excited about that.
I just more and more.
I just we just come back fromwhere our students just come
back from a big conference inBirmingham.
(27:17):
That would have been, yeah,probably, it's close to 50, 50
mixed, and there was there was18000 students in that arena.
So I say, wow, man, I'm soexcited about what's going on in
this generation.
I think that Brian and Austinand Nettie, I think in some
(27:39):
sense that they're building onmaybe what we've laid the
foundation for, you know, and tome that's so exciting.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopefulin that the next generation is
going to get this right.
It's not going to be one onepreacher, one teacher, one book.
We need all of those things,you know, and but it's, it's the
(28:01):
next generation that that Ithink, that they're, they're,
they're going to, they're comingto the to the game, equipped,
better equipped than we were.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Man.
Amen, pastors man, thank you somuch for your time today.
This has been a very fruitfuland convicting and encouraging
podcast for us and obviously wegleaned a lot.
I certainly gleaned a lot.
I certainly gleaned a lot and Ihope our listeners who are
listening in I hope they gleanedan incredible amount as well.
(28:32):
How can folks keep up withPastor Mike Fields and Triumph
Church?
Where do they need to go?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Thank you, brian.
Well, you know our church'swebsite, tcvicksburgcom, and of
course that's our onlinepresence and we stream our
services.
On Sunday morning we actuallydo two services.
They're basically alike, so youcan kind of take your choice,
but you can stream at 9 or 1045.
And then, of course, thoseservices are archived on our
(29:01):
website after the fact and soyou can get on there, learn
about our church and a littlebit of our stories on there.
But also, if you're notinvolved in a local church, you
know and you want to check usout.
Everything is online there.
(29:22):
We're getting ready for ourfall semester of small groups is
kicking off and we're in weekthree of 21 days of prayer this
week.
We do that twice a year here atchurch, and so we're excited
about what God is doing Fall.
I think you guys would probablyagree that in your churches
that for some reason, fall seemslike a harvest.
(29:45):
I know it's a harvest season inthe natural, but it seems like
that in the spiritual too, andso we're gearing up for an
exciting harvest season.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Now, Mike, you gave that website.
Slow it down this time and giveit to us again.
But also you got some oldschool guys like Austin need a
telephone number or email orsomething, or a street address
or street address or something.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
The website tcvicksburgcom is our church
website and of course I welcomeanyone that would want to email
pastormike at tcvicksburgcom ismy email address there.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And so we're.
We'd love to hear from you guysand and connect any way that
you'd like to reach out to us.
Fantastic, fantastic pastor.
It's been again, an incredibleprivilege and pleasure to have
you join us and for those of youall who are listening on, feel
free to continue to listen tothis podcast.
Please feel free to share itAlso.
You can also go to any podcastapp.
Make sure you like andsubscribe.
(30:55):
It helps, helps get the word outabout this podcast and the
great guests that we get achance to interview as we tell
the story of reconciliationacross the state of Mississippi
and beyond.
It's your, your listening andyour sharing that helps us do
that, so please don't hesitateto do so Again.
It's been a great privilege tohave Pastor Mike Fields on this
(31:18):
episode of Living Reconciled.
I am your host, brian Crawford,with my good co-host and
friends Nettie Winters, austinHoyle, signing off saying God
bless, god bless, thank you, godbless you.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
(31:41):
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.