September 3, 2025 • 50 mins
We would love to hear from you! Send us a text message.
How does God turn pain into purpose? Jerome Douglas shares his journey from D.C.’s streets to leading neighborhood outreach at Redeemer Church in Jackson. With authenticity shaped by his past, Jerome brings reconciliation to life through multi-ethnic ministry, community outreach, and hope-filled vision for transformation.
📣 Join us for the Living Reconciled Celebration on September 25 at Mississippi College’s Anderson Hall as we continue the conversation on unity and renewal.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
We are 80 plus episodes in tothis journey that we started a
(00:36):
couple of years back and we areincredibly excited for this
episode.
My name is Brian Crawford.
I serve as the host of thispodcast and I am, with some
incredible friends and myco-host, Nettie Winters, Austin
Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doingtoday?
Doing great I'm doing as well asI can, as well as you can.
(00:59):
That's a new one, that's a newresponse.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, as well as I can, I wasn't ready for that one
.
But I mean that has to do withcapacity.
So is my capacity high or low?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We'll find out by the end of the podcast.
But before we get there anddive deeply into Austin's
emotional journey and his stateof affairs as it relates to his
life, we want to give a specialthanks to our sponsors.
State of affairs as it relatesto his life we want to give a
special thanks to our sponsorsNissan, st Dominic's Hospital,
atmos, energy Regions Foundation, mississippi College, anderson
(01:33):
United Methodist Church, graceTemple Church, mississippi State
, real Christian Foundation,brown Missionary Baptist
Christian Life Church, dorisPowell, robert Ward and Winters.
Thank you, guys so much.
It's everything that you dothat makes the things that we do
possible, and today one of thethings that we're doing at
mission Mississippi and livingreconciled is we are speaking to
um another good friend and aspecial guest, pastor, jerome
(01:54):
Douglas.
Jerome Douglas is the directorof neighborhood outreach and
missions at Redeemer church andintentionally multi-ethnic
church in the heart of Jackson,mississippi.
Jerome is a DC native,washington DC born and raised,
but Jerome has brought his giftand his family to the great
(02:17):
state of Mississippi and to thecommunity of Jackson.
Jerome serves as an elder andpastor again at Redeemer Church
and we are incredibly,incredibly blessed and excited
to have our friend Jerome on ourpodcast.
Brother, how are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'm good brother.
Thanks for having me.
Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, man, yeah, we are looking forward to it as
well.
Why don't you start, brother?
Just tell us a little bit aboutyour story, man, your story of
faith, your story of life andhow the Lord brought you to the
place that you currently are inthe heart of the city.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, man, first of all, the intro.
I think did a lot for italready.
But yeah, born and raised inWashington DC in the 90s, my two
parents, who were 17 and 16when they had me, so they
dropped out of high school totake care of me.
They were boyfriend andgirlfriend.
They broke up when my mom waspregnant.
(03:12):
So I kind of had the typicalinner city hood life, right,
where my dad did street thingsand so did my mom.
But man, but man didn't reallynotice it.
You know it was.
You know I would say man,growing up was fun in dc.
Love, love my hometown.
Love watching fireworks.
(03:33):
Uh, down to my event on forwardjuly um, love going to the zoo
on easter mondays.
Um, to me, yeah, boy, I'm atrue washingtonian, so love all
dc sports too.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Um, I kind of grew up in a you know, even the wizards
, even the wizards, the wizards,oh my goodness fashion news the
caps all dc you are a truewashingtonian man oh yeah,
you're able to
Speaker 3 (03:59):
suffer through the wizards brother, oh man, and
still suffering.
So pray for me, doc.
Um, but yeah, man, so you know,um, my, my, my family,
particularly my mom.
I spent most of my time withher.
She was, as I would call, youknow, nominally Christian.
You know my grandfather, herdad was a minister and she would
(04:20):
be a self-proclaimed ministertoo.
So we kind of grew up aroundchurch stuff.
We didn't go to churchregularly, though we pray
regularly.
I remember being forced tomemorize Psalms and Proverbs,
but about the age of nine or 10,both my parents went to prison
(04:42):
for various things, went toprison for various things, and
that Christian adjacency kind ofleft with my mom and I was kind
of left on my own.
I kind of was doing my ownthing.
I wanted to go live with somefamily members for a bit, but
eventually started bouncingaround.
By the time I got to 14, 15, Iwas old enough and mature enough
(05:05):
to be at girlfriend's house,and so I kind of left the church
stuff behind, even though I wasstill call myself a Christian.
It wasn't until I got to mysenior high school and I got
close to a guy named Gabriel outof out of Maryland.
We went to the same upper boundprogram because I was still.
(05:26):
I was good in school, so I didit over the summers to make
money.
He had became a Christian hisfreshman year of college and
once I graduated I couldn'tfinish, I couldn't afford to go
to college.
So I kind of was just in DCdoing normal DC stuff.
In DC, doing normal DC stuff, Iwas promoting, promoting parties
and clubs, and um, and I wouldgo to his, his dorm, to hang out
(05:49):
with him, to go to parties, andhe was my boy, so we would kick
it on campus, uh, um, andeventually he became a Christian
cause.
He too was normally Christiantoo.
Uh, we, we.
We later learned it was thegirls down the hallway from from
him that was praying for us tobecome Christians.
But anyway, he goes to aChristian conference.
(06:09):
He's like man.
I got to get my boy on the samewave as me and so he invites me
to come to this conference.
And it was at a conferencewhere I heard the song Moving
Forward by Israel Halton thatreally convicted me of my sin
and really set me on atrajectory to be you know in the
Lord and live faithfully withhim.
(06:30):
And honestly, I haven't beenthe same since I went.
What I thought cold turkey, froma lot of stuff, from street
life to girls to alcohol and man, I went, I dove head first into
Bible studies on campus.
Uh, so much so that I ended upplanting uh one with a friend
(06:50):
down at Howard University where,um, my now wife walks into the
first one.
Um, and her and her friends andme and my boys, we all were
friends walking the Lordtogether.
We eventually started datingand she's like hey, I'm going
back home for medical school inJackson and I'm like, all right,
I've been walking with the Lordnow for about a year and a half
(07:12):
.
I'm trying to get my lifetogether.
Now I guess I'll follow youdown.
You know I always wanted to goto college and so I did.
I followed down here, went toJackson State, got my degree in
marketing and being here wassuper formative.
I got LinkedIn with two mentors, moved away for about 10 years.
(07:32):
I went into working marketingin corporate America for about
10 years.
Jerome, can we take?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
a pause right here.
Yeah, yeah sure, okay.
Did God bring you to Jackson oryour wife brought you to
Jackson?
How?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
did that work?
The lord did through my wife,the lord did through my wife.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
There you go there you go, he has a way he has a
way of doing that, doesn't he?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
he does, man, and I'll fast for you.
So we I wanted to.
I wanted to go work incorporate america about 10 years
doing marketing, about halfwaythrough calling ministry, and so
my wife finished her medicaltraining.
We moved back to Jackson whereI took the role I have now at
the church.
So that's pretty much my storyand how I got to where I am now.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Man, jerome, that's amazing.
Now jump in, eddie.
You got it, brother.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I was just going to say you know, when you first
announced that he was from DC,the first thing in my mind how
do you get from DC to Jackson?
Man, I went from Jackson to DC,but how do you do that?
And it's clear that that womanthat you claim God used to get
you back here is okay, I guess.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
If you insist that God did it, it's okay.
Yeah, she's pretty solid man.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Absolutely brother.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Jump in Austin man Jump in.
I was just saying.
God works through women All thetime.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
All the time, even women praying for you down the
hall in the campus dorm rooms,which is amazing, man.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It was very amazing.
We never knew.
It wasn't until much laterwhere they came to us and said
man like wow, man, we have beenpraying for you guys all
semester to follow the Lord.
And I was like man, well, Iguess the Lord heard you,
because here we are now.
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Gaff, the Lord did hear.
I guess the Lord heard you,because here we are now I know.
Yeah, the Lord did hear.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So tell us a little bit about your work at Redeemer
Jerome, how obviously the Lordsent you there specifically for
that work.
Tell us a little bit about thatwork.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So as the neighborhood outreachand mission director, it's
essentially my job to connectour church to our community and
the community to our church.
That's one arm.
That's the outreach arm.
Then there's the mission armwhere I'm discipling our church
to be missional and I'm caringfor our mission partners, who we
(10:00):
support.
Who we support, whether it beby overseeing the mission,
giving you know, checking in onthem, praying for them and also
leading our mission committee tohelp the Cyborg Church in the
effort as well.
So a pretty big job.
I mean under that comesmarketing and social media as
(10:20):
well as mercy ministry.
So I tackle a lot at the job.
I think part of when the jobwas recommended to me by Pastor
L before I applied, I think whatdrew me to the job, because I
put the job application beforemy friends and my pastors at the
(10:43):
time and I just asked them hey,do you think this sounds like
my gifts?
Does this fit along with whatyou think might be a calling for
me?
I mean, I want to be a pastor,but this seems a little
different and everyone wasextremely encouraging.
I think part of it is just mypassion for missions, my passion
for apologetics, for defendingthe faith.
I'm a galvanizer, so I loveconnecting people, bringing
(11:11):
people into the fold, makingthem feel welcome, and I made my
life much of my life has beenoutside man, so I think part of
the job is being outside andbeing connected and being a
(11:32):
friendly face to people who areexperiencing some of the things
I experienced growing up, and sothat's essentially my job.
My job is to be, you know,pretty much a picture of hope
for people that's like me out inJackson on the neighborhood,
and finding ways to connect themto our church, or any church
for that matter.
As long as they're in afaithful Bible-believing church,
they can come out of the spotor not, but that's kind of my
role at the church right nowfaithful Bible-believing church
they can come out and spy or not, but that's kind of my role at
the church right now.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Hey, it's interesting , you know, just even talking
about how you started thinkingabout or started asking trusted
friends and your trusted circle,how your gifting aligned with
the position and then connectingthat thought to the earlier
stories that you were sharingabout your upbringing.
(12:07):
Do you see some of that?
Like you know, we talk abouthow God, how God has a way of
using everything Right.
Our past are.
You know the pains, the traumas.
You know the, the things thatwe think he has no use for.
He has a fine, he has a way ofseemingly using that.
Do you see that, even as youknow, as you were sharing with
(12:29):
us, you're DJing and you knowyou're kind of the ability to
galvanize and get peopletogether and rally people for
parties and all that.
Do you even see some of thatkind of being God's, having
God's hand on it and using iteven today and just kind of that
?
That, just that wholeexperience?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, I mean I mean of course not in the moment, but
I do a lot of reflection aboutit.
I mean it's like, yeah, I see alot of the way the Lord gifts
us and, and and Moses,particularly for the.
What are the things we're to dois how he shapes our lives.
Even think about, you know, Iknow we'll eventually get to
(13:09):
topics around reconciliation,but because our church is
intentionally multi-ethnic andby that it means that we are
trying to intentionally pursueall that is in our area, in our
parish, which is a multi-ethnicarea in that predominantly black
, we have a growing Hispanicpopulation moving in.
(13:32):
We have a white American acrossthe other side of the road,
also in our parish.
Even as you think about that,as I think about growing up in
DC, my high school, myelementary school, my middle
school and high schoolpredominantly Hispanic 60, 70
percent Hispanic.
As you think about DC now, itused to be Chocolate City.
(13:53):
Now it's more like MilkChocolate City, as you have
gentrification all kind of stuffhappening in DC.
But, man, I grew up with having,you know, white teachers and
Hispanic friends and beingpredominantly black neighborhood
.
And then, on top of that, youknow, I go through high school
(14:15):
and I go and work in corporateAmerica where I'm the only black
guy on my team, I'm the onlyblack man in the entire brand
managing department.
And so the way I think about mylife, the Lord has kind of put
me in these spaces where I'mhaving to navigate culturally,
whether it be for my Blackculture or for being a guy or
(14:38):
being from DC.
Here I am, I'm a big city guy.
Now in the South, I see all ofthe Lord Like no, like I've sort
of put you in these mixedcultural spaces for this.
So that's why one of thereasons why I even pursued the
road and got behind the missionof Redeemer because I'm like, as
I look back at my life man likethe Lord has been already
(15:01):
shaping me and motivating me tobe in these spaces.
Shaping me and motivating me tobe in these spaces, and so now,
jumping across cultures anddoing that cultural dance,
throwing that perfect, have aton of life experience of doing
it and it just fits well.
So, yeah, I definitely see thelowest hand in my past life
fueling and definitely shapingfor what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, yeah, man, how do you think your passion for
the neighborhood, passion forthe block, do you see that as
being also shaped by you being achild of the block?
You know, like you mentioned,you know, early on, kind of
seeing some of those, some ofthose you know systemic kind of
(15:49):
issues that are pervasive, thatwe know about talking about.
You know father mother andseeing that divide early, seeing
seeing the father mother.
You know kind of succumb tosuccumb to the, the, the, the,
the trouble of the, the, the,the trouble of the streets, so
to speak, with the, with theimprisonments, and then having
to kind of navigate all of thatkind of stuff.
(16:09):
Do you see that as having a?
Um driving in you a passion, aheart, an empathy, uh, for the
block, for the communities, umthat God has, um, um surf and
and and circle Redeemer around?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Oh for sure.
I mean, I've sort of made themin my mind and hopefully this is
aligned with the Lord's will.
It seemed to be so far that I'malways going to be doing
ministry to the block, to folkslike me, just because in many
ways I feel like this is anunderrepresented, untapped
people group that has peoplethat can speak their language,
(16:48):
that know their experiences, canfeel what they feel and be able
to say, man, the Lord saved me,you know, and there's hope, and
to be a picture of that man.
For sure, I definitely thinkthat experience I had growing up
, and even as a, as a, as aupper teenager, fueling and
(17:11):
being a real driving force forwhat I do now.
And I and I'll also add thatpart of the reason why I even
think I'm alive today in thefaith is because other folks are
doing that for me.
I remember the church down theroad sending a church van on
(17:32):
Tuesday night to pick up kidsout of the neighborhood, to take
us back to the church, to feedus hot dogs and teach us the
Bible.
I didn't know what was going on, I just thought it was free
food, but it was the churchreaching out to us in the
neighborhood, taking us to thestreets for one night.
Remember the Presbyterian churchin downtown DC called Community
(17:52):
Club having a tutoring program.
You met twice a week with amentor who was working in some
corporation, who taught you howto do your homework.
Who was a mentor to you and fedyou and paid you for having
good grades so that wasmotivation to do your homework.
Who was a mentor to you and fedyou and paid you for having
good grades so that wasmotivation to do well in school.
I got a mentor man who loved meand cared for me, even though
he was Islamic man I still thinkabout Omar to this day who took
(18:16):
me on my first college tour.
But it was through that churchthat put together that tutoring
program to help kids like mefrom inner city to get connected
to somebody who would be youngenough to relate to me but also
old enough for me to look up toand smart enough to help me with
school.
So, yeah, it was other placesdoing that for me, and so not
only am I full of quote unquoteexperience in inner city because
(18:38):
of my own life, but I'vebenefited from the church doing
that for folks like me and Ifind it as man.
That's the Lord just workinghis own little way to draw me to
himself.
So yeah, I definitely thinkthat's a driving passion for me.
Now for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
So how do you use that experience, Jerome, to
affect the community you live inhere now?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Man, I'm outside, I mean, I'm kind of doing the same
thing people were doing.
You know, for mean, like youknow, for example, you know a
couple of things I've done thechurch we do like these I call
them corner cookouts where youknow I meet somebody in the
community.
Man, can I set up a grill atyour house and invite your
neighbors out and we just eatburgers and hot dogs and just
chop it up with some card gamesand music so I can get to know
(19:20):
you.
You can meet people at thechurch and we can be, you know,
a communication and connectionand praying for you.
I'm essentially, many waysapplying what I thought many
folks applied to me, which iswhat many coin as incarnational
ministry, where we're justpresent, being faithful, showing
up.
You know, get into people'slives.
You know, when I, when I seesomebody that has the outer
(19:42):
appearance of being street lead,I'm not looking at them with a
side eye off the rip, I'm seeingthem as a person, as an image
bearer, because I know myself aslike that.
When I see a young dude whowrestling with, like man, I'm
hungry, I need food and the onlyoption I have is to sell drugs,
(20:02):
like I can identify with thatand I can be with the guys on
the block where for me was hey,drugs like.
I can identify with that and Ican be with the guys on the
block where for me was hey, youdon't need to do that, there's a
different way for that.
So the ways I'm applying is I'mbeing present, I'm speaking
into people's lives, I'messentially employing some of
the things I thought wouldbenefit me to others and I'm
also doing some you know, ofcourse cultural intelligence
(20:23):
work to see what they might findto be beneficial and then
actually executing that.
So those are the ways.
I think that I'm applying whatI experienced to my, to my own
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Now, that's great, man, that's a wonderful idea
that you don't invite folks toyour place to eat, but you take
it on yourself to inviteyourself to them.
Yeah, and bring the food withyou.
Yeah, man, I needed that.
I needed that man.
I'm in, I'm living in the wrongneighborhood, man, yeah, man.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We got a cellar in my house.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
A man, can I use your yard for a cookout?
I'm going to invite yourneighbors and I'm going to feed
y'all Nobody.
I'm going to invite yourneighbors in.
I'm going to feed y'all Nobodyinvited me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Maybe I should try to maybe get something going.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, it makes me want to go move back up to
Jackson, man.
I would love for you to set upcamp in my house, man, but I
don't live there anymore, so youcan't but.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I'm hungry man, you know.
First of all, I'm blown away interms of just how God, how God
takes our stories and uses themfor his glory.
And so I'm blown away justlistening to yours, jerome, like
(21:50):
I told, like I said at the fromthe beginning, your story is
always intriguing to me justbecause of how interwoven where
you are today is is to where youwere and where God brought you
from.
But the other piece in thisthat I think is an important
piece that you kind of mentioned, is that there are times in
which, you know, churches embarkon outreach efforts, community
outreach efforts, and they'relooking for those quick wins and
those immediate wins, for thosequick wins and those immediate
(22:10):
wins, and they tend to discountthe Jerome Douglases that
they're impacting and affecting,that this child is being shaped
, being molded, that God has usefor this child and all of these
seeds that you guys haveplanted are going to bring forth
a harvest in this child.
But you're looking for theimmediate, and so a lot of times
churches will grow discouragedor they'll tap out, they'll quit
(22:30):
, they'll say, ok, this isn'tbringing any benefit, we're not
seeing the numbers, we're notseeing the return, and they'll
kind of tap out and they'll quitnot understanding that there's
a long game.
There's a long game philosophythat we need to apply to this,
because there's.
There's Jerome Douglas's thatwe're educating, there's Jerome
Douglas's that we're feeding inthis moment.
(22:51):
You know, I mean, one of thestories that always comes to
mind in my own life story is Isee people, even to this day, uh
, grown men, come up to me andum and and have these
conversations with me about man.
I remember when your father youknow, brought, brought the van
down and picked us all up andtook us to the Waffle House and
(23:15):
we got to.
Man, that was my first timeeating at the Waffle House.
Man, I'll never forget.
Man, I appreciate you, Iappreciate your dad and the love
he showed the block, love heshowed the neighborhood Right
and and me, and even in thatmoment, probably for them it was
just OK somebody going to takeus out to eat at the Wabhouse,
but there was a seed that wasplanted and it lingered in the
(23:36):
impact and the effect, just likethe stories of pain that we
experience Right, there could bethese slices of moments that we
experience that linger with us,slices of moments that we
experience that linger with us.
But just like there's slices ofpain that linger with us, these
moments of pain in our stories,there's also incredible
opportunities that the churchcan invest in these moments of
light, in these moments ofgoodness, these moments of
(23:59):
righteousness and love and mercyand grace that lingers with
children.
And we might not see theimmediate impact.
Right, that kid might get offthe van, get off the bus.
He doesn't even look like it.
You know he appreciated it thatmuch, at least from what you
can see.
But man, there is so muchhappening in those moments that
we can't discount right.
(24:21):
And so I just love that bro.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, man, that's been my approach as we think
about critical on-the-blockministry is the frying pan stuff
, so that we can do quick wins.
And we look for the people thatyou know, we meet them, we
share the gospel with them andtheir eyes open and, like man, I
want to meet with you every day.
You know I've had, and God hasbeen kind enough to allow me to
(24:48):
see through to that.
He doesn't have to.
He called me to be faithful.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And so I'm grateful to see through to that.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But I know from the majority of what we're going to
do is the crock pot ministry.
You know that slow cooking,that it's going to be in there
for a while, if I can borrowfrom Doug Logan, you know it's
going that that 24 hour lettingthat thing sit and then marinate
and cook over time and um andso it's, it's the both, and that
for sure that I'm, I'm, myexpectations are set towards
(25:16):
that.
You know cause.
I recognize that when one isdifferent in every circumstance
is different.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's phenomenal, man, that's
phenomenal.
Talk to us about the landscapeof reconciliation man, as you
think, about Redeemer.
Oftentimes, at least in thecity of Jackson, jackson is kind
of held up as a beautifulpicture of what could be when we
are engaged in the work ofhealing across ethnic lines,
(25:46):
cultural lines, intentional inthat work, intentional in that
engagement.
Talk to us.
Obviously, we know that God isjust kind of breathing life on
that work in a way that we can'texplain, we can't articulate.
But then also he leverages someof those intentional plans and
(26:07):
intentional strategies that that, that um, that we use as well.
So talk to us about some of thethings that you guys are doing
specifically intentionally tonot just simply create a space
for a multi-ethnic ministry butalso to hold that space, which
is, I, you know, as amulti-ethnic pastor, I feel like
that's the harder work.
It's not just simply to createthe space but to hold it in the
(26:28):
midst of all the tensions thatthe culture can introduce to
that.
So talk to us a little bitabout some of the things that
Redeemer does.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
You know I mean, if anybody knows anything about
Redeemer, they've been doingthis for a long time, and so, in
many ways, what I've come intois the fruit of what people have
done before me, and so I'mbenefiting we all are benefiting
from the work that folks havedone before us, and it's still,
(26:57):
you know, always got to say thatthere's still a long way to go.
Some of the things I'll mention, though, that I think are
important.
As you think aboutreconciliation ministry, or
reconciling ministry, is one, itfeels like from my perspective
and, of course, from theperspective of others that I've
talked to, we just don't shyaway from the topic.
(27:18):
It's something that, when we'repreaching through a series,
it's something that's going tobe mentioned from the pulpit
faithfully.
Preaching through a series,it's something that's going to
be mentioned from the pulpitfaithfully.
When you hear our missionstatement being said before most
church services, as we'rewelcoming people into the
building for that Sunday morning, whether it be guests or
(27:38):
members, you're hearing it fromour mission statement that we're
a multi-ethnic church.
So not only are we talkingabout it from the pulpit, but
we're studying it together.
You know we do summer bookstudies as a church.
More often than not, it's abook that is geared towards
thinking about reconciliation.
(27:59):
Last book we did this pastsummer is called All Are Welcome
, and that book really dove intosome of the history of
racialization in our country.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
All Are Welcome.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
All Are Welcome yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay, and who's the author of that book?
Just for our listening audience.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Man, you're going to hate me.
It's a bunch of authors.
I cannot remember the authoroff the top of my mind.
But I know it's free, all good,okay, good, good, oh, that's
even better, that's even better,but but yeah all are welcome,
all are welcome, yeah, but yeah,so, you know, over the summer
we try to most more often thannot over the summer try to tap
(28:46):
into a resource that helps uspause and focus in on
reconciliation.
Just, you know, during ourRedeemer Together, we have an
event that happens every twoyears, where we try to bring in
everybody of our church and do aretreat together and more often
than not, that topic is aroundhow to be a church of
multi-everything.
In many ways, we even you know,if you think about what we do
as a church, we try to have abalanced approach, even from a
(29:07):
mission side.
As we think about what we do asa church, we try to have a
balanced approach, even from amission side.
When I think about who wesupport as missionaries, I want
to have a balanced approach.
We're supporting not only bigchurches and big missional
efforts, but I'm looking out forthe little guys, the urban
ministry, or folks from you know, black missionaries, black
women, for example, even.
Or folks from you know, blackmissionaries, black women, for
(29:29):
example.
Even.
As we think about our staff, weintentionally try to staff
according to our demographics.
So you'll see that our pastorand church staff is going to be
a mix of race as well as genders, and so there's a host of
additional things.
But I would say, the way weintentionally try to use our
funds, try to have a thing aboutstaff in the church, the things
(29:51):
we talk about from the pulpit,what we read, all those
different things, I think arejust reinforcing the mission
statement and the history of thechurch, which is all geared
most of it is geared towardsreconciliation.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, man, that's good.
Tell us a little bit about thechallenges you face.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Man, you know.
So on both sides there's alwayssome hints of mistrust.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Just hints, huh mistrust Um just hints, huh.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Well, yeah, I guess, I guess I guess it's real, real
mistrust and, to be honest, um,not not to, you know, I don't.
I don't want to embarrass ourchurch, but there's probably
some um, and sometimes that canbe frustrating because you're
like man, it felt like we're,you know, it felt like we're
(30:49):
making good strides, but thereare still pockets of, you know,
mistrust for some folks.
Uh, so I would say that's,that's some of the challenges,
trying to get people to trusteach other.
Um, I think it's.
The second challenge is I'm not, I think it's the book.
I think it's a book.
It's called Do All the BlackKids Sit at the Same Table?
I forget the name of the book,but there's a, there's a.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Why Are All the Black Children Set Together in the
Cafeteria?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I think it's Michelle and the Tender.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
So this theme plays a role in our church in some ways
, in that I had one guy come toour church and he said, bro,
y'all talk about reconciliationand I hear it from the pulpit.
I know y'all reading the bookand that's great.
But when I walk into the churchdoors I see everybody broken up
into silos.
(31:37):
He's like what's that about?
I'm like man, that's a goodpoint, you know, that makes
sense.
It's like you walk into thebuilding and you got, you know,
a group of white people here, agroup of black people there, a
group of white women there,black women, black guys there,
and I'm like man.
That's true.
I think that is part of ourchurch struggle, where in many
ways you just you gravitate towho you're more familiar with or
(31:59):
who you have more in commonwith, or who is easier to talk
to, or who is easier to talk to,and so that's for better or for
worse, right, but it's still achallenge that you got to get
people to say all right, take anextra step to get outside of
your comfort zone and meet somenew people.
But one of the things I try toencourage this young man in is
that you see this on Sunday.
(32:20):
But if you go to our communitygroups, you'll see that much
more mixed in.
But again, even our communitygroups is a challenge because
our community groups are basedoff of geography and typically
Jackson is geographicallysegregated, even though we may
not say that there are pocketswhere it's also ethnic.
But, like even our own parish,one side on the side drive is 80
(32:41):
, 90% black.
The other side on the sidedrive is 80, 90% white, and so
if you have a community group onboth sides of the street, what
do you think they're going tolook like?
You know?
So that's another challengethat we so, I think, a lot of
these challenges you've got topush people to get outside of
their cover zone.
I'll say this last thing andI'll let you guys go to another
question.
Probably the greatest challengeI feel is Probably the greatest
(33:13):
challenge, though I feel isBlack people feeling like
they're part of the work.
In our church we like to saythat white people pour in and
Black people trinkle in, andthat's because one our
denomination is traditionallydenomination is traditionally
more white-dominant the PCA, butalso when you think about a
predominantly white church, Ithink we're 70% white, maybe 60%
(33:34):
white and maybe 30% Black.
When you think about that.
It's just uncomfortable for usto walk into a predominantly
white space, no matter ifthere's a lot of Black people
here or not, especially whenyou've got a traditionally black
church down the street that Ican go to Um and so to get
brothers and sisters to be apart of this work is a challenge
(33:57):
, but I I mean but even in that,though, man we have man, as I
mentioned, 30, but 30% black.
We have a lot of people who arejust committed to the work and
who are all about the church'smission of reaching our
neighborhood and, you know,proclaiming the gospel, and and
they're willing to do that withwhite counterparts.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So those are some of the challenges I say we face,
probably like most churches yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, I think
you're spot on man, and weoftentimes like to say you know,
even you know the missmississippi, but certainly a
city like um.
I say it often you know as apastor pastor there that the
current of relationships alwaysflows to the familiar and and so
(34:33):
that's, that's, that's thedownstream.
The downstream is familiar.
So you walk in, you look forpeople who look like you, maybe,
maybe, maybe they might votelike me, maybe they certainly
talk like me.
All right, let me, let menavigate to those folks and then
we can compare, you know, wecan compare albums and records
and songs that we listen to andTV shows that we watch and all
that kind of stuff, and andreally what the work is, the
(34:57):
spiritual empowerment to swimupstream.
Yeah, yeah, you know it's toswim against the current of
familiar and to engage in theunfamiliar, the uncomfortable
and actually, for the glory ofGod and for the joy of the
church right, build coalitionsthat extend beyond people that
(35:18):
look like me, think like me,vote like me, watch the same TV
shows, all those types of things, and that's where the real work
has to happen.
Shows, all those types of things, and that's where the real work
has to happen so we cannaturally without the Spirit's
aid and help, we can naturallyshow up at a place and then find
those silos that we connectmost with.
The spiritual work is the workof being able to cross into
these other spaces and intothese other domains of the
(35:42):
unfamiliar, the uncomfortable,and so, like you mentioned, this
is a challenge that faces thechurch all the time, no matter
whether it's a multi-ethnicchurch or whether it's a church
that's monoethnic in the senseof where it is but it has a
multi-ethnic neighborhood thatit wants to engage.
The work is always going to beto swim upstream and because, if
(36:07):
you think about it like that,that means that it's a
continuous work.
You know, it's like okay themoment I stopped swimming and,
being intentional, I'm goingback downstream, I'm going back
downstream.
I have to continue to swim, Ihave to continue to be
intentional in this work if I'mgoing to make the gains and then
not only make them but preservethem and keep them again for
the joy of the church and forthe glory of God.
(36:28):
So yeah, that's good man,that's good bro.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And we've been again.
I just have to say that, man,we've been tremendously blessed
to have good leadership toencourage us in that effort,
which is why I can say twothings can exist at one time
where, you know, white peopleand black people find it
challenging to be in multi-partyspaces together, because it
(36:54):
requires both parties and that'snot to say we don't have more
parties than that, but itrequires both parties to use
your words to swim upstream, touse your words to swim upstream.
And because of theencouragement of our leadership,
man, I feel like we have a tonof people just committed to that
.
I've been surprised, man, tosee, you know, I think, about
(37:22):
one side of our parish that is,you know, predominantly Black,
majority under the poverty line,85% renters.
I mean just economically,culturally, just on the margins,
right, To see man, a70-year-old white woman, be the
first to sign up to go walkthrough the neighborhood and
pray and meet people.
(37:46):
I mean that doesn't happenwithout yes, for sure, having
the Lord working through ourleadership to really encourage
us and empower us through thescriptures to be about this work
.
So yeah, but for sure, man, wehave that challenge that many
churches face.
It's one of my strengths I'vebeen grateful to find, as the
(38:10):
person leading the missionalefforts in the neighborhood, to
find people at our church whoare on and in about their work.
So, man, love what the Lord isdoing here and definitely got a
lot more to grow.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah man, why don't you close this out by teasing?
No, go ahead, nettie, jump in.
Yeah man, why don't you closethis?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
out by teasing no, go ahead, nettie, jump in.
No, I'm just going to say youknow your intentionality in
those instances, jerome, for aperson that takes this serious,
your intentionality has got tobe more intense or greater than
the intentionality of thosepeople that are present to not
(38:47):
do it.
You know, I find that evenwhere I attend church, you know,
I mentioned to the greeters youknow you're placing all these
black folks together, whitefolks together, why don't you
just split them up?
And a young lady looked at meand said, oh, they just be more
comfortable with each other,like that.
I said, no, that ain't the goal, and you know.
And then I have these challengesof people intentionally coming
(39:09):
to the church.
Know it's multicultural, notonly at the church I attend, but
at the church too.
From what I hear is that theycome to the church and then want
to segregate themselves withinthe church and they'll say like,
well, why are you here?
Well, I'm waiting for the othershoe to fall.
You know you here.
Uh, well, I'm waiting for theother shoe to fall.
Uh, you know, it's like what.
I'm waiting for the other shoeto fall.
(39:31):
Man, if you got that mentality,why are you even here?
And then, uh, if people have thecourage to venture beyond that
is, I find, in the music bitchbeyond that, somebody will grab
him by the hand and say youdon't want to do that, are you
trying to be like them?
Like them who that kind ofchallenge we have in terms of
(39:57):
even though occupying the samespace?
And then you got some highschool students up in Greenville
and Cleveland says you know, wehave this colorism and you know
, and so they dumbed downthemselves so they won't be
classified in a certain categoryof colorism.
You know, you're trying to bewhite, if you're a good citizen
(40:17):
or you're trying to be this, ifyou curl your hair or if you
wear this style.
You know, and it's challenging,but the intentionality I say
the intentionality you got to bevery intense to do the right
thing over the intentionality todo the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
That's fair.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Amen, amen.
Jerome man, you mentioned, youknow, a couple of things on the
latter end of your answer that'sexciting.
You, in the midst of all of thedivision, in the midst of all
the chaos, the tensions thatexist in our country right now,
what are some things that areexciting?
(40:57):
You about Jackson, aboutMississippi, about even the
country itself?
Feel free to springboard intoeither of those areas, but what
are some of the things that areexciting?
You about what God is doing inthe work of reconciliation?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, um, well, I'll start with.
I'll start with our church,I'll start with my church and
kind of move to the city.
Um, man, one of the things thatexcite me about our church, uh
and and the future we we have iswe still got people coming and
it's in this.
And it's so weird to me, youknow that someone will hear
(41:32):
about what we're doing and say,okay, cool, I'm gonna be about
that, like, all right, yourealize that there's a different
church you can go to right,you're like, yeah, but I like, I
like what, I like what you guysgot going on down here.
So I want to be a part of that.
I'm like, okay, cool, I lovethat.
And my mentality has been, likeyou know, as I speak before
before the church, I'm alwaysquick to say, man, we accept
(41:53):
everybody.
We don't care what part of thisreconciliation journey or
spectrum you're on, whetheryou're here to, you don't know
what's going on, you just liketo preach it.
We want you here.
Now, if you're here and you'revirtue-sick than them, well, we
want you here.
You're here and you're allabout the work we got going on.
We want you here Becauseeverybody along this
discipleship journey and we allgoing to see Christ.
(42:15):
We all going to be a part ofthat wonderful picture we see in
Revelation and low going,except us all, and no matter
what, we're part of thisspectrum we're on in terms of
reconciliation, so I'm excitedabout the fact that people are
still coming.
People are staying put, stayingcommitted, and they're willing
to work through whatever issuesor tension that might exist, and
(42:39):
people are willing to intensifythe joy and the love they have
for our church that arecurrently present.
One of the things I would saythat gives me some hope about
our neighborhood, though, isthat I feel like our
neighborhood is where, as manywould say, when you're at the
bottom, the only way you can gois up.
So it feels like, in many ways,when you walk through our
(43:00):
neighborhood, it feels like man.
A lot of it is like man at thebottom.
You know we have a lot ofpeople who are just in really
dire situations, so there has tobe the only way we all can go
is up, and so, you know, one ofthe one of the things I'm really
(43:20):
excited about for ourneighborhood to take us on the
upward trajectory is our churchis in the process or I would say
in a process of purchasingChastain, which is a a pretty
big staple for our community,which is one of the local middle
schools down two blocks downfrom us.
That was pretty prominent inour neighborhood, was recently
(43:41):
vacant I made vacant a couple ofyears back, was put in the
market and now we're in theprocess of trying to purchase
Chastain and if the Lord willthat we purchase that and we're
able to secure that deal.
Man, that's going to be acommunity center for our
neighborhood.
I mean all the things I talkedabout tutoring and college prep
(44:06):
and feeding and schooling anddeveloping for workforce and for
discipleship, all that work anddeed ministry.
I like to say we're sharing andshowing Jesus that two-pronged
ministry where we're doing bothworks but also word.
(44:29):
Then we can do that in thiscommunity center and our
neighborhood gets to benefitfrom that.
In this community center andour neighborhood gets to benefit
from that, they'll have apretty clean space that's
state-of-the-art, with optionsfor them to do, that's
extracurricular to go to.
That's right in theirneighborhood.
That's going to begame-changing.
That's going to be hope forpeople that are hopeless, that
(44:50):
walk out the doors and see trashin the ground.
Well, now, through our effort,we can clean it up but they can
go down the street and go to therec center and play ball and
feel safe and be connected.
Man, I'm excited for that and Ihear a lot of good things about
our mayor.
You know I'm excited to seewhat's going to come from this
new administration and I'm alsohopeful.
(45:11):
I'm hoping that, with some ofthe recent challenges we've had
in our government, that this newturnover will be pretty good
for the future of our citybecause, man Lord knows, we need
it.
So I hear about a lot of newbuildings being developed.
I hear about a number of fewother areas, like Belle Haven, a
district, being developed inother parts of the city, fondren
(45:32):
, I guess, is continuing to bemore and more developed parts of
the city, foundry, and it getsto continue to be um, more and
more developed.
So I would say those, thosethings that that that add, I
would say um beauty to Jackson,um that adds jobs to Jackson,
that adds infrastructure and andand excitement and joy to
Jackson.
Um, those things excitement,because I'm I'm always looking
(45:54):
for places and opportunities togive people that's in our, in
our parish hope um for for thefuture, um, because when you
walk out your door and you feelhopeless, you turn to evil and
dark things, and so we can givethem hope through, through
excitement, through the gospeland through fellowship, through
the church man, that those arethe kind of things that make me
excited no, no, brother.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Those are the things that make us excited, man.
Those are the things that makeus excited and, and and I'm, I'm
excited, man, and when God isdoing like you said in in, in
our capital city.
Of course, I'm a Vicksburg guy,vicksburg native, but I spent a
lot of time in the capital cityand I'm excited to to see all
that the Lord is doing at um, atRedeemer Church.
Uh, maybe, maybe, me and Nettieand Austin will find a nice
(46:40):
little, nice little home that wecan, we can, purchase so that
you can um, come by and throw acookout on the block for us.
Uh, but, but it's, but it's,brother, it's an incredible
privilege to spend some timewith you, man, and to glean some
lessons.
I know our listeners areprobably writing plenty of notes
and taking some thoughts awayfrom this podcast.
(47:03):
Man, how can people keep upwith you, jerome?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Yeah, brother, you kind of broke it, but what did
you say?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I'm sorry, how can people keep up with you, jerome?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Oh yeah, man, hey, hey, look, you can follow me on
instagram jerome douglas jr.
Jerome underscore douglas jr.
Uh.
But, man, come to the church,man, we and we're here, north
side drive, 640 east north sidedrive.
Uh, come check us out.
If you're in the area, if youknow anybody who need a church
home, we let a love on them um,here.
So instagram, that's a bigplace, but also coming through
the church.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Jerome, I just have one last thing.
Yeah, my family are going totake a road trip on the East
Coast and we're going to end upin DC.
So, man, tell me where to goand where not to go.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Well, there's nowhere not to go.
You need to go everywhere in DC, but hey, make sure you stop by
.
Go to Ben's Chili Bowl.
It's a little different how itused to be, but go to Ben's
Chili Bowl, get your half smokedwith chili, cheese and beans
and, yeah, man, enjoy it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
We plan to hang out at the Ford Theater, the Bible
Museum and the African-AmericanMuseum and Martin Luther King's
statue.
Those are the places we'regoing to try to hit.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Hey, man, if you get a chance, go check out Tabiti's
area.
In Southeast they got acommunity center called the Ark,
essentially what we're tryingto do with Chastain.
If in the Lowell purchase it,they've done with the arc in the
in southeast dc um, and so ifyou get a chance to check out
tabidi and what he's doing overthere with that group, man,
it'll be a sight to see, um, soI will employ you to do that too
(48:50):
.
All right now, thanks brother,it's been incredible.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Thank you so very much for your time.
Uh, those that are listening,please feel free to subscribe,
like and share this podcast.
Um, we love what we do.
We love the guests that we geta chance to speak with.
We want you uh to have theopportunity to uh have the joy
of hearing uh from, uh, from ourguests.
Um, the and joy that we get achance to experience.
(49:17):
So please like, share,subscribe.
Living Reconciled.
You can search on any podcastapp Living Reconciled, mission,
mississippi.
On behalf of my good friendNettie Winters, austin Hoyle and
our guest, jerome Douglas.
This is Brian Crawford signingoff saying God bless, god bless,
god bless, peace.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
(49:37):
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
Hey, thanks so much for joiningus on this episode of Living
Reconciled.
We are 80 plus episodes in tothis journey that we started a
(00:36):
couple of years back and we areincredibly excited for this
episode.
My name is Brian Crawford.
I serve as the host of thispodcast and I am, with some
incredible friends and myco-host, Nettie Winters, Austin
Hoyle.
Gentlemen, how are you doingtoday?
Doing great I'm doing as well asI can, as well as you can.
(00:59):
That's a new one, that's a newresponse.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, as well as I can, I wasn't ready for that one
.
But I mean that has to do withcapacity.
So is my capacity high or low?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
We'll find out by the end of the podcast.
But before we get there anddive deeply into Austin's
emotional journey and his stateof affairs as it relates to his
life, we want to give a specialthanks to our sponsors.
State of affairs as it relatesto his life we want to give a
special thanks to our sponsorsNissan, st Dominic's Hospital,
atmos, energy Regions Foundation, mississippi College, anderson
(01:33):
United Methodist Church, graceTemple Church, mississippi State
, real Christian Foundation,brown Missionary Baptist
Christian Life Church, dorisPowell, robert Ward and Winters.
Thank you, guys so much.
It's everything that you dothat makes the things that we do
possible, and today one of thethings that we're doing at
mission Mississippi and livingreconciled is we are speaking to
um another good friend and aspecial guest, pastor, jerome
(01:54):
Douglas.
Jerome Douglas is the directorof neighborhood outreach and
missions at Redeemer church andintentionally multi-ethnic
church in the heart of Jackson,mississippi.
Jerome is a DC native,washington DC born and raised,
but Jerome has brought his giftand his family to the great
(02:17):
state of Mississippi and to thecommunity of Jackson.
Jerome serves as an elder andpastor again at Redeemer Church
and we are incredibly,incredibly blessed and excited
to have our friend Jerome on ourpodcast.
Brother, how are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'm good brother.
Thanks for having me.
Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, man, yeah, we are looking forward to it as
well.
Why don't you start, brother?
Just tell us a little bit aboutyour story, man, your story of
faith, your story of life andhow the Lord brought you to the
place that you currently are inthe heart of the city.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, man, first of all, the intro.
I think did a lot for italready.
But yeah, born and raised inWashington DC in the 90s, my two
parents, who were 17 and 16when they had me, so they
dropped out of high school totake care of me.
They were boyfriend andgirlfriend.
They broke up when my mom waspregnant.
(03:12):
So I kind of had the typicalinner city hood life, right,
where my dad did street thingsand so did my mom.
But man, but man didn't reallynotice it.
You know it was.
You know I would say man,growing up was fun in dc.
Love, love my hometown.
Love watching fireworks.
(03:33):
Uh, down to my event on forwardjuly um, love going to the zoo
on easter mondays.
Um, to me, yeah, boy, I'm atrue washingtonian, so love all
dc sports too.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Um, I kind of grew up in a you know, even the wizards
, even the wizards, the wizards,oh my goodness fashion news the
caps all dc you are a truewashingtonian man oh yeah,
you're able to
Speaker 3 (03:59):
suffer through the wizards brother, oh man, and
still suffering.
So pray for me, doc.
Um, but yeah, man, so you know,um, my, my, my family,
particularly my mom.
I spent most of my time withher.
She was, as I would call, youknow, nominally Christian.
You know my grandfather, herdad was a minister and she would
(04:20):
be a self-proclaimed ministertoo.
So we kind of grew up aroundchurch stuff.
We didn't go to churchregularly, though we pray
regularly.
I remember being forced tomemorize Psalms and Proverbs,
but about the age of nine or 10,both my parents went to prison
(04:42):
for various things, went toprison for various things, and
that Christian adjacency kind ofleft with my mom and I was kind
of left on my own.
I kind of was doing my ownthing.
I wanted to go live with somefamily members for a bit, but
eventually started bouncingaround.
By the time I got to 14, 15, Iwas old enough and mature enough
(05:05):
to be at girlfriend's house,and so I kind of left the church
stuff behind, even though I wasstill call myself a Christian.
It wasn't until I got to mysenior high school and I got
close to a guy named Gabriel outof out of Maryland.
We went to the same upper boundprogram because I was still.
(05:26):
I was good in school, so I didit over the summers to make
money.
He had became a Christian hisfreshman year of college and
once I graduated I couldn'tfinish, I couldn't afford to go
to college.
So I kind of was just in DCdoing normal DC stuff.
In DC, doing normal DC stuff, Iwas promoting, promoting parties
and clubs, and um, and I wouldgo to his, his dorm, to hang out
(05:49):
with him, to go to parties, andhe was my boy, so we would kick
it on campus, uh, um, andeventually he became a Christian
cause.
He too was normally Christiantoo.
Uh, we, we.
We later learned it was thegirls down the hallway from from
him that was praying for us tobecome Christians.
But anyway, he goes to aChristian conference.
(06:09):
He's like man.
I got to get my boy on the samewave as me and so he invites me
to come to this conference.
And it was at a conferencewhere I heard the song Moving
Forward by Israel Halton thatreally convicted me of my sin
and really set me on atrajectory to be you know in the
Lord and live faithfully withhim.
(06:30):
And honestly, I haven't beenthe same since I went.
What I thought cold turkey, froma lot of stuff, from street
life to girls to alcohol and man, I went, I dove head first into
Bible studies on campus.
Uh, so much so that I ended upplanting uh one with a friend
(06:50):
down at Howard University where,um, my now wife walks into the
first one.
Um, and her and her friends andme and my boys, we all were
friends walking the Lordtogether.
We eventually started datingand she's like hey, I'm going
back home for medical school inJackson and I'm like, all right,
I've been walking with the Lordnow for about a year and a half
(07:12):
.
I'm trying to get my lifetogether.
Now I guess I'll follow youdown.
You know I always wanted to goto college and so I did.
I followed down here, went toJackson State, got my degree in
marketing and being here wassuper formative.
I got LinkedIn with two mentors, moved away for about 10 years.
(07:32):
I went into working marketingin corporate America for about
10 years.
Jerome, can we take?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
a pause right here.
Yeah, yeah sure, okay.
Did God bring you to Jackson oryour wife brought you to
Jackson?
How?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
did that work?
The lord did through my wife,the lord did through my wife.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
There you go there you go, he has a way he has a
way of doing that, doesn't he?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
he does, man, and I'll fast for you.
So we I wanted to.
I wanted to go work incorporate america about 10 years
doing marketing, about halfwaythrough calling ministry, and so
my wife finished her medicaltraining.
We moved back to Jackson whereI took the role I have now at
the church.
So that's pretty much my storyand how I got to where I am now.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Man, jerome, that's amazing.
Now jump in, eddie.
You got it, brother.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I was just going to say you know, when you first
announced that he was from DC,the first thing in my mind how
do you get from DC to Jackson?
Man, I went from Jackson to DC,but how do you do that?
And it's clear that that womanthat you claim God used to get
you back here is okay, I guess.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
If you insist that God did it, it's okay.
Yeah, she's pretty solid man.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Absolutely brother.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Jump in Austin man Jump in.
I was just saying.
God works through women All thetime.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
All the time, even women praying for you down the
hall in the campus dorm rooms,which is amazing, man.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It was very amazing.
We never knew.
It wasn't until much laterwhere they came to us and said
man like wow, man, we have beenpraying for you guys all
semester to follow the Lord.
And I was like man, well, Iguess the Lord heard you,
because here we are now.
I know.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Gaff, the Lord did hear.
I guess the Lord heard you,because here we are now I know.
Yeah, the Lord did hear.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So tell us a little bit about your work at Redeemer
Jerome, how obviously the Lordsent you there specifically for
that work.
Tell us a little bit about thatwork.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So as the neighborhood outreachand mission director, it's
essentially my job to connectour church to our community and
the community to our church.
That's one arm.
That's the outreach arm.
Then there's the mission armwhere I'm discipling our church
to be missional and I'm caringfor our mission partners, who we
(10:00):
support.
Who we support, whether it beby overseeing the mission,
giving you know, checking in onthem, praying for them and also
leading our mission committee tohelp the Cyborg Church in the
effort as well.
So a pretty big job.
I mean under that comesmarketing and social media as
(10:20):
well as mercy ministry.
So I tackle a lot at the job.
I think part of when the jobwas recommended to me by Pastor
L before I applied, I think whatdrew me to the job, because I
put the job application beforemy friends and my pastors at the
(10:43):
time and I just asked them hey,do you think this sounds like
my gifts?
Does this fit along with whatyou think might be a calling for
me?
I mean, I want to be a pastor,but this seems a little
different and everyone wasextremely encouraging.
I think part of it is just mypassion for missions, my passion
for apologetics, for defendingthe faith.
I'm a galvanizer, so I loveconnecting people, bringing
(11:11):
people into the fold, makingthem feel welcome, and I made my
life much of my life has beenoutside man, so I think part of
the job is being outside andbeing connected and being a
(11:32):
friendly face to people who areexperiencing some of the things
I experienced growing up, and sothat's essentially my job.
My job is to be, you know,pretty much a picture of hope
for people that's like me out inJackson on the neighborhood,
and finding ways to connect themto our church, or any church
for that matter.
As long as they're in afaithful Bible-believing church,
they can come out of the spotor not, but that's kind of my
role at the church right nowfaithful Bible-believing church
they can come out and spy or not, but that's kind of my role at
the church right now.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Hey, it's interesting , you know, just even talking
about how you started thinkingabout or started asking trusted
friends and your trusted circle,how your gifting aligned with
the position and then connectingthat thought to the earlier
stories that you were sharingabout your upbringing.
(12:07):
Do you see some of that?
Like you know, we talk abouthow God, how God has a way of
using everything Right.
Our past are.
You know the pains, the traumas.
You know the, the things thatwe think he has no use for.
He has a fine, he has a way ofseemingly using that.
Do you see that, even as youknow, as you were sharing with
(12:29):
us, you're DJing and you knowyou're kind of the ability to
galvanize and get peopletogether and rally people for
parties and all that.
Do you even see some of thatkind of being God's, having
God's hand on it and using iteven today and just kind of that
?
That, just that wholeexperience?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, I mean I mean of course not in the moment, but
I do a lot of reflection aboutit.
I mean it's like, yeah, I see alot of the way the Lord gifts
us and, and and Moses,particularly for the.
What are the things we're to dois how he shapes our lives.
Even think about, you know, Iknow we'll eventually get to
(13:09):
topics around reconciliation,but because our church is
intentionally multi-ethnic andby that it means that we are
trying to intentionally pursueall that is in our area, in our
parish, which is a multi-ethnicarea in that predominantly black
, we have a growing Hispanicpopulation moving in.
(13:32):
We have a white American acrossthe other side of the road,
also in our parish.
Even as you think about that,as I think about growing up in
DC, my high school, myelementary school, my middle
school and high schoolpredominantly Hispanic 60, 70
percent Hispanic.
As you think about DC now, itused to be Chocolate City.
(13:53):
Now it's more like MilkChocolate City, as you have
gentrification all kind of stuffhappening in DC.
But, man, I grew up with having,you know, white teachers and
Hispanic friends and beingpredominantly black neighborhood
.
And then, on top of that, youknow, I go through high school
(14:15):
and I go and work in corporateAmerica where I'm the only black
guy on my team, I'm the onlyblack man in the entire brand
managing department.
And so the way I think about mylife, the Lord has kind of put
me in these spaces where I'mhaving to navigate culturally,
whether it be for my Blackculture or for being a guy or
(14:38):
being from DC.
Here I am, I'm a big city guy.
Now in the South, I see all ofthe Lord Like no, like I've sort
of put you in these mixedcultural spaces for this.
So that's why one of thereasons why I even pursued the
road and got behind the missionof Redeemer because I'm like, as
I look back at my life man likethe Lord has been already
(15:01):
shaping me and motivating me tobe in these spaces.
Shaping me and motivating me tobe in these spaces, and so now,
jumping across cultures anddoing that cultural dance,
throwing that perfect, have aton of life experience of doing
it and it just fits well.
So, yeah, I definitely see thelowest hand in my past life
fueling and definitely shapingfor what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, yeah, man, how do you think your passion for
the neighborhood, passion forthe block, do you see that as
being also shaped by you being achild of the block?
You know, like you mentioned,you know, early on, kind of
seeing some of those, some ofthose you know systemic kind of
(15:49):
issues that are pervasive, thatwe know about talking about.
You know father mother andseeing that divide early, seeing
seeing the father mother.
You know kind of succumb tosuccumb to the, the, the, the,
the trouble of the, the, the,the trouble of the streets, so
to speak, with the, with theimprisonments, and then having
to kind of navigate all of thatkind of stuff.
(16:09):
Do you see that as having a?
Um driving in you a passion, aheart, an empathy, uh, for the
block, for the communities, umthat God has, um, um surf and
and and circle Redeemer around?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Oh for sure.
I mean, I've sort of made themin my mind and hopefully this is
aligned with the Lord's will.
It seemed to be so far that I'malways going to be doing
ministry to the block, to folkslike me, just because in many
ways I feel like this is anunderrepresented, untapped
people group that has peoplethat can speak their language,
(16:48):
that know their experiences, canfeel what they feel and be able
to say, man, the Lord saved me,you know, and there's hope, and
to be a picture of that man.
For sure, I definitely thinkthat experience I had growing up
, and even as a, as a, as aupper teenager, fueling and
(17:11):
being a real driving force forwhat I do now.
And I and I'll also add thatpart of the reason why I even
think I'm alive today in thefaith is because other folks are
doing that for me.
I remember the church down theroad sending a church van on
(17:32):
Tuesday night to pick up kidsout of the neighborhood, to take
us back to the church, to feedus hot dogs and teach us the
Bible.
I didn't know what was going on, I just thought it was free
food, but it was the churchreaching out to us in the
neighborhood, taking us to thestreets for one night.
Remember the Presbyterian churchin downtown DC called Community
(17:52):
Club having a tutoring program.
You met twice a week with amentor who was working in some
corporation, who taught you howto do your homework.
Who was a mentor to you and fedyou and paid you for having
good grades so that wasmotivation to do your homework.
Who was a mentor to you and fedyou and paid you for having
good grades so that wasmotivation to do well in school.
I got a mentor man who loved meand cared for me, even though
he was Islamic man I still thinkabout Omar to this day who took
(18:16):
me on my first college tour.
But it was through that churchthat put together that tutoring
program to help kids like mefrom inner city to get connected
to somebody who would be youngenough to relate to me but also
old enough for me to look up toand smart enough to help me with
school.
So, yeah, it was other placesdoing that for me, and so not
only am I full of quote unquoteexperience in inner city because
(18:38):
of my own life, but I'vebenefited from the church doing
that for folks like me and Ifind it as man.
That's the Lord just workinghis own little way to draw me to
himself.
So yeah, I definitely thinkthat's a driving passion for me.
Now for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
So how do you use that experience, Jerome, to
affect the community you live inhere now?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Man, I'm outside, I mean, I'm kind of doing the same
thing people were doing.
You know, for mean, like youknow, for example, you know a
couple of things I've done thechurch we do like these I call
them corner cookouts where youknow I meet somebody in the
community.
Man, can I set up a grill atyour house and invite your
neighbors out and we just eatburgers and hot dogs and just
chop it up with some card gamesand music so I can get to know
(19:20):
you.
You can meet people at thechurch and we can be, you know,
a communication and connectionand praying for you.
I'm essentially, many waysapplying what I thought many
folks applied to me, which iswhat many coin as incarnational
ministry, where we're justpresent, being faithful, showing
up.
You know, get into people'slives.
You know, when I, when I seesomebody that has the outer
(19:42):
appearance of being street lead,I'm not looking at them with a
side eye off the rip, I'm seeingthem as a person, as an image
bearer, because I know myself aslike that.
When I see a young dude whowrestling with, like man, I'm
hungry, I need food and the onlyoption I have is to sell drugs,
(20:02):
like I can identify with thatand I can be with the guys on
the block where for me was hey,drugs like.
I can identify with that and Ican be with the guys on the
block where for me was hey, youdon't need to do that, there's a
different way for that.
So the ways I'm applying is I'mbeing present, I'm speaking
into people's lives, I'messentially employing some of
the things I thought wouldbenefit me to others and I'm
also doing some you know, ofcourse cultural intelligence
(20:23):
work to see what they might findto be beneficial and then
actually executing that.
So those are the ways.
I think that I'm applying whatI experienced to my, to my own
circumstances.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Now, that's great, man, that's a wonderful idea
that you don't invite folks toyour place to eat, but you take
it on yourself to inviteyourself to them.
Yeah, and bring the food withyou.
Yeah, man, I needed that.
I needed that man.
I'm in, I'm living in the wrongneighborhood, man, yeah, man.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
We got a cellar in my house.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
A man, can I use your yard for a cookout?
I'm going to invite yourneighbors and I'm going to feed
y'all Nobody.
I'm going to invite yourneighbors in.
I'm going to feed y'all Nobodyinvited me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Maybe I should try to maybe get something going.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, it makes me want to go move back up to
Jackson, man.
I would love for you to set upcamp in my house, man, but I
don't live there anymore, so youcan't but.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I'm hungry man, you know.
First of all, I'm blown away interms of just how God, how God
takes our stories and uses themfor his glory.
And so I'm blown away justlistening to yours, jerome, like
(21:50):
I told, like I said at the fromthe beginning, your story is
always intriguing to me justbecause of how interwoven where
you are today is is to where youwere and where God brought you
from.
But the other piece in thisthat I think is an important
piece that you kind of mentioned, is that there are times in
which, you know, churches embarkon outreach efforts, community
outreach efforts, and they'relooking for those quick wins and
those immediate wins, for thosequick wins and those immediate
(22:10):
wins, and they tend to discountthe Jerome Douglases that
they're impacting and affecting,that this child is being shaped
, being molded, that God has usefor this child and all of these
seeds that you guys haveplanted are going to bring forth
a harvest in this child.
But you're looking for theimmediate, and so a lot of times
churches will grow discouragedor they'll tap out, they'll quit
(22:30):
, they'll say, ok, this isn'tbringing any benefit, we're not
seeing the numbers, we're notseeing the return, and they'll
kind of tap out and they'll quitnot understanding that there's
a long game.
There's a long game philosophythat we need to apply to this,
because there's.
There's Jerome Douglas's thatwe're educating, there's Jerome
Douglas's that we're feeding inthis moment.
(22:51):
You know, I mean, one of thestories that always comes to
mind in my own life story is Isee people, even to this day, uh
, grown men, come up to me andum and and have these
conversations with me about man.
I remember when your father youknow, brought, brought the van
down and picked us all up andtook us to the Waffle House and
(23:15):
we got to.
Man, that was my first timeeating at the Waffle House.
Man, I'll never forget.
Man, I appreciate you, Iappreciate your dad and the love
he showed the block, love heshowed the neighborhood Right
and and me, and even in thatmoment, probably for them it was
just OK somebody going to takeus out to eat at the Wabhouse,
but there was a seed that wasplanted and it lingered in the
(23:36):
impact and the effect, just likethe stories of pain that we
experience Right, there could bethese slices of moments that we
experience that linger with us,slices of moments that we
experience that linger with us.
But just like there's slices ofpain that linger with us, these
moments of pain in our stories,there's also incredible
opportunities that the churchcan invest in these moments of
light, in these moments ofgoodness, these moments of
(23:59):
righteousness and love and mercyand grace that lingers with
children.
And we might not see theimmediate impact.
Right, that kid might get offthe van, get off the bus.
He doesn't even look like it.
You know he appreciated it thatmuch, at least from what you
can see.
But man, there is so muchhappening in those moments that
we can't discount right.
(24:21):
And so I just love that bro.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, man, that's been my approach as we think
about critical on-the-blockministry is the frying pan stuff
, so that we can do quick wins.
And we look for the people thatyou know, we meet them, we
share the gospel with them andtheir eyes open and, like man, I
want to meet with you every day.
You know I've had, and God hasbeen kind enough to allow me to
(24:48):
see through to that.
He doesn't have to.
He called me to be faithful.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And so I'm grateful to see through to that.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
But I know from the majority of what we're going to
do is the crock pot ministry.
You know that slow cooking,that it's going to be in there
for a while, if I can borrowfrom Doug Logan, you know it's
going that that 24 hour lettingthat thing sit and then marinate
and cook over time and um andso it's, it's the both, and that
for sure that I'm, I'm, myexpectations are set towards
(25:16):
that.
You know cause.
I recognize that when one isdifferent in every circumstance
is different.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's phenomenal, man, that's
phenomenal.
Talk to us about the landscapeof reconciliation man, as you
think, about Redeemer.
Oftentimes, at least in thecity of Jackson, jackson is kind
of held up as a beautifulpicture of what could be when we
are engaged in the work ofhealing across ethnic lines,
(25:46):
cultural lines, intentional inthat work, intentional in that
engagement.
Talk to us.
Obviously, we know that God isjust kind of breathing life on
that work in a way that we can'texplain, we can't articulate.
But then also he leverages someof those intentional plans and
(26:07):
intentional strategies that that, that um, that we use as well.
So talk to us about some of thethings that you guys are doing
specifically intentionally tonot just simply create a space
for a multi-ethnic ministry butalso to hold that space, which
is, I, you know, as amulti-ethnic pastor, I feel like
that's the harder work.
It's not just simply to createthe space but to hold it in the
(26:28):
midst of all the tensions thatthe culture can introduce to
that.
So talk to us a little bitabout some of the things that
Redeemer does.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
You know I mean, if anybody knows anything about
Redeemer, they've been doingthis for a long time, and so, in
many ways, what I've come intois the fruit of what people have
done before me, and so I'mbenefiting we all are benefiting
from the work that folks havedone before us, and it's still,
(26:57):
you know, always got to say thatthere's still a long way to go.
Some of the things I'll mention, though, that I think are
important.
As you think aboutreconciliation ministry, or
reconciling ministry, is one, itfeels like from my perspective
and, of course, from theperspective of others that I've
talked to, we just don't shyaway from the topic.
(27:18):
It's something that, when we'repreaching through a series,
it's something that's going tobe mentioned from the pulpit
faithfully.
Preaching through a series,it's something that's going to
be mentioned from the pulpitfaithfully.
When you hear our missionstatement being said before most
church services, as we'rewelcoming people into the
building for that Sunday morning, whether it be guests or
(27:38):
members, you're hearing it fromour mission statement that we're
a multi-ethnic church.
So not only are we talkingabout it from the pulpit, but
we're studying it together.
You know we do summer bookstudies as a church.
More often than not, it's abook that is geared towards
thinking about reconciliation.
(27:59):
Last book we did this pastsummer is called All Are Welcome
, and that book really dove intosome of the history of
racialization in our country.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
All Are Welcome.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
All Are Welcome yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay, and who's the author of that book?
Just for our listening audience.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Man, you're going to hate me.
It's a bunch of authors.
I cannot remember the authoroff the top of my mind.
But I know it's free, all good,okay, good, good, oh, that's
even better, that's even better,but but yeah all are welcome,
all are welcome, yeah, but yeah,so, you know, over the summer
we try to most more often thannot over the summer try to tap
(28:46):
into a resource that helps uspause and focus in on
reconciliation.
Just, you know, during ourRedeemer Together, we have an
event that happens every twoyears, where we try to bring in
everybody of our church and do aretreat together and more often
than not, that topic is aroundhow to be a church of
multi-everything.
In many ways, we even you know,if you think about what we do
as a church, we try to have abalanced approach, even from a
(29:07):
mission side.
As we think about what we do asa church, we try to have a
balanced approach, even from amission side.
When I think about who wesupport as missionaries, I want
to have a balanced approach.
We're supporting not only bigchurches and big missional
efforts, but I'm looking out forthe little guys, the urban
ministry, or folks from you know, black missionaries, black
women, for example, even.
Or folks from you know, blackmissionaries, black women, for
(29:29):
example.
Even.
As we think about our staff, weintentionally try to staff
according to our demographics.
So you'll see that our pastorand church staff is going to be
a mix of race as well as genders, and so there's a host of
additional things.
But I would say, the way weintentionally try to use our
funds, try to have a thing aboutstaff in the church, the things
(29:51):
we talk about from the pulpit,what we read, all those
different things, I think arejust reinforcing the mission
statement and the history of thechurch, which is all geared
most of it is geared towardsreconciliation.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, man, that's good.
Tell us a little bit about thechallenges you face.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Man, you know.
So on both sides there's alwayssome hints of mistrust.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Just hints, huh mistrust Um just hints, huh.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Well, yeah, I guess, I guess I guess it's real, real
mistrust and, to be honest, um,not not to, you know, I don't.
I don't want to embarrass ourchurch, but there's probably
some um, and sometimes that canbe frustrating because you're
like man, it felt like we're,you know, it felt like we're
(30:49):
making good strides, but thereare still pockets of, you know,
mistrust for some folks.
Uh, so I would say that's,that's some of the challenges,
trying to get people to trusteach other.
Um, I think it's.
The second challenge is I'm not, I think it's the book.
I think it's a book.
It's called Do All the BlackKids Sit at the Same Table?
I forget the name of the book,but there's a, there's a.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Why Are All the Black Children Set Together in the
Cafeteria?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I think it's Michelle and the Tender.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
So this theme plays a role in our church in some ways
, in that I had one guy come toour church and he said, bro,
y'all talk about reconciliationand I hear it from the pulpit.
I know y'all reading the bookand that's great.
But when I walk into the churchdoors I see everybody broken up
into silos.
(31:37):
He's like what's that about?
I'm like man, that's a goodpoint, you know, that makes
sense.
It's like you walk into thebuilding and you got, you know,
a group of white people here, agroup of black people there, a
group of white women there,black women, black guys there,
and I'm like man.
That's true.
I think that is part of ourchurch struggle, where in many
ways you just you gravitate towho you're more familiar with or
(31:59):
who you have more in commonwith, or who is easier to talk
to, or who is easier to talk to,and so that's for better or for
worse, right, but it's still achallenge that you got to get
people to say all right, take anextra step to get outside of
your comfort zone and meet somenew people.
But one of the things I try toencourage this young man in is
that you see this on Sunday.
(32:20):
But if you go to our communitygroups, you'll see that much
more mixed in.
But again, even our communitygroups is a challenge because
our community groups are basedoff of geography and typically
Jackson is geographicallysegregated, even though we may
not say that there are pocketswhere it's also ethnic.
But, like even our own parish,one side on the side drive is 80
(32:41):
, 90% black.
The other side on the sidedrive is 80, 90% white, and so
if you have a community group onboth sides of the street, what
do you think they're going tolook like?
You know?
So that's another challengethat we so, I think, a lot of
these challenges you've got topush people to get outside of
their cover zone.
I'll say this last thing andI'll let you guys go to another
question.
Probably the greatest challengeI feel is Probably the greatest
(33:13):
challenge, though I feel isBlack people feeling like
they're part of the work.
In our church we like to saythat white people pour in and
Black people trinkle in, andthat's because one our
denomination is traditionallydenomination is traditionally
more white-dominant the PCA, butalso when you think about a
predominantly white church, Ithink we're 70% white, maybe 60%
(33:34):
white and maybe 30% Black.
When you think about that.
It's just uncomfortable for usto walk into a predominantly
white space, no matter ifthere's a lot of Black people
here or not, especially whenyou've got a traditionally black
church down the street that Ican go to Um and so to get
brothers and sisters to be apart of this work is a challenge
(33:57):
, but I I mean but even in that,though, man we have man, as I
mentioned, 30, but 30% black.
We have a lot of people who arejust committed to the work and
who are all about the church'smission of reaching our
neighborhood and, you know,proclaiming the gospel, and and
they're willing to do that withwhite counterparts.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
So those are some of the challenges I say we face,
probably like most churches yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, I think
you're spot on man, and weoftentimes like to say you know,
even you know the missmississippi, but certainly a
city like um.
I say it often you know as apastor pastor there that the
current of relationships alwaysflows to the familiar and and so
(34:33):
that's, that's, that's thedownstream.
The downstream is familiar.
So you walk in, you look forpeople who look like you, maybe,
maybe, maybe they might votelike me, maybe they certainly
talk like me.
All right, let me, let menavigate to those folks and then
we can compare, you know, wecan compare albums and records
and songs that we listen to andTV shows that we watch and all
that kind of stuff, and andreally what the work is, the
(34:57):
spiritual empowerment to swimupstream.
Yeah, yeah, you know it's toswim against the current of
familiar and to engage in theunfamiliar, the uncomfortable
and actually, for the glory ofGod and for the joy of the
church right, build coalitionsthat extend beyond people that
(35:18):
look like me, think like me,vote like me, watch the same TV
shows, all those types of things, and that's where the real work
has to happen.
Shows, all those types of things, and that's where the real work
has to happen so we cannaturally without the Spirit's
aid and help, we can naturallyshow up at a place and then find
those silos that we connectmost with.
The spiritual work is the workof being able to cross into
these other spaces and intothese other domains of the
(35:42):
unfamiliar, the uncomfortable,and so, like you mentioned, this
is a challenge that faces thechurch all the time, no matter
whether it's a multi-ethnicchurch or whether it's a church
that's monoethnic in the senseof where it is but it has a
multi-ethnic neighborhood thatit wants to engage.
The work is always going to beto swim upstream and because, if
(36:07):
you think about it like that,that means that it's a
continuous work.
You know, it's like okay themoment I stopped swimming and,
being intentional, I'm goingback downstream, I'm going back
downstream.
I have to continue to swim, Ihave to continue to be
intentional in this work if I'mgoing to make the gains and then
not only make them but preservethem and keep them again for
the joy of the church and forthe glory of God.
(36:28):
So yeah, that's good man,that's good bro.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And we've been again.
I just have to say that, man,we've been tremendously blessed
to have good leadership toencourage us in that effort,
which is why I can say twothings can exist at one time
where, you know, white peopleand black people find it
challenging to be in multi-partyspaces together, because it
(36:54):
requires both parties and that'snot to say we don't have more
parties than that, but itrequires both parties to use
your words to swim upstream, touse your words to swim upstream.
And because of theencouragement of our leadership,
man, I feel like we have a tonof people just committed to that
.
I've been surprised, man, tosee, you know, I think, about
(37:22):
one side of our parish that is,you know, predominantly Black,
majority under the poverty line,85% renters.
I mean just economically,culturally, just on the margins,
right, To see man, a70-year-old white woman, be the
first to sign up to go walkthrough the neighborhood and
pray and meet people.
(37:46):
I mean that doesn't happenwithout yes, for sure, having
the Lord working through ourleadership to really encourage
us and empower us through thescriptures to be about this work
.
So yeah, but for sure, man, wehave that challenge that many
churches face.
It's one of my strengths I'vebeen grateful to find, as the
(38:10):
person leading the missionalefforts in the neighborhood, to
find people at our church whoare on and in about their work.
So, man, love what the Lord isdoing here and definitely got a
lot more to grow.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah man, why don't you close this out by teasing?
No, go ahead, nettie, jump in.
Yeah man, why don't you closethis?
Speaker 2 (38:26):
out by teasing no, go ahead, nettie, jump in.
No, I'm just going to say youknow your intentionality in
those instances, jerome, for aperson that takes this serious,
your intentionality has got tobe more intense or greater than
the intentionality of thosepeople that are present to not
(38:47):
do it.
You know, I find that evenwhere I attend church, you know,
I mentioned to the greeters youknow you're placing all these
black folks together, whitefolks together, why don't you
just split them up?
And a young lady looked at meand said, oh, they just be more
comfortable with each other,like that.
I said, no, that ain't the goal, and you know.
And then I have these challengesof people intentionally coming
(39:09):
to the church.
Know it's multicultural, notonly at the church I attend, but
at the church too.
From what I hear is that theycome to the church and then want
to segregate themselves withinthe church and they'll say like,
well, why are you here?
Well, I'm waiting for the othershoe to fall.
You know you here.
Uh, well, I'm waiting for theother shoe to fall.
Uh, you know, it's like what.
I'm waiting for the other shoeto fall.
(39:31):
Man, if you got that mentality,why are you even here?
And then, uh, if people have thecourage to venture beyond that
is, I find, in the music bitchbeyond that, somebody will grab
him by the hand and say youdon't want to do that, are you
trying to be like them?
Like them who that kind ofchallenge we have in terms of
(39:57):
even though occupying the samespace?
And then you got some highschool students up in Greenville
and Cleveland says you know, wehave this colorism and you know
, and so they dumbed downthemselves so they won't be
classified in a certain categoryof colorism.
You know, you're trying to bewhite, if you're a good citizen
(40:17):
or you're trying to be this, ifyou curl your hair or if you
wear this style.
You know, and it's challenging,but the intentionality I say
the intentionality you got to bevery intense to do the right
thing over the intentionality todo the wrong thing.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
That's fair.
I love it yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Amen, amen.
Jerome man, you mentioned, youknow, a couple of things on the
latter end of your answer that'sexciting.
You, in the midst of all of thedivision, in the midst of all
the chaos, the tensions thatexist in our country right now,
what are some things that areexciting?
(40:57):
You about Jackson, aboutMississippi, about even the
country itself?
Feel free to springboard intoeither of those areas, but what
are some of the things that areexciting?
You about what God is doing inthe work of reconciliation?
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, um, well, I'll start with.
I'll start with our church,I'll start with my church and
kind of move to the city.
Um, man, one of the things thatexcite me about our church, uh
and and the future we we have iswe still got people coming and
it's in this.
And it's so weird to me, youknow that someone will hear
(41:32):
about what we're doing and say,okay, cool, I'm gonna be about
that, like, all right, yourealize that there's a different
church you can go to right,you're like, yeah, but I like, I
like what, I like what you guysgot going on down here.
So I want to be a part of that.
I'm like, okay, cool, I lovethat.
And my mentality has been, likeyou know, as I speak before
before the church, I'm alwaysquick to say, man, we accept
(41:53):
everybody.
We don't care what part of thisreconciliation journey or
spectrum you're on, whetheryou're here to, you don't know
what's going on, you just liketo preach it.
We want you here.
Now, if you're here and you'revirtue-sick than them, well, we
want you here.
You're here and you're allabout the work we got going on.
We want you here Becauseeverybody along this
discipleship journey and we allgoing to see Christ.
(42:15):
We all going to be a part ofthat wonderful picture we see in
Revelation and low going,except us all, and no matter
what, we're part of thisspectrum we're on in terms of
reconciliation, so I'm excitedabout the fact that people are
still coming.
People are staying put, stayingcommitted, and they're willing
to work through whatever issuesor tension that might exist, and
(42:39):
people are willing to intensifythe joy and the love they have
for our church that arecurrently present.
One of the things I would saythat gives me some hope about
our neighborhood, though, isthat I feel like our
neighborhood is where, as manywould say, when you're at the
bottom, the only way you can gois up.
So it feels like, in many ways,when you walk through our
(43:00):
neighborhood, it feels like man.
A lot of it is like man at thebottom.
You know we have a lot ofpeople who are just in really
dire situations, so there has tobe the only way we all can go
is up, and so, you know, one ofthe one of the things I'm really
(43:20):
excited about for ourneighborhood to take us on the
upward trajectory is our churchis in the process or I would say
in a process of purchasingChastain, which is a a pretty
big staple for our community,which is one of the local middle
schools down two blocks downfrom us.
That was pretty prominent inour neighborhood, was recently
(43:41):
vacant I made vacant a couple ofyears back, was put in the
market and now we're in theprocess of trying to purchase
Chastain and if the Lord willthat we purchase that and we're
able to secure that deal.
Man, that's going to be acommunity center for our
neighborhood.
I mean all the things I talkedabout tutoring and college prep
(44:06):
and feeding and schooling anddeveloping for workforce and for
discipleship, all that work anddeed ministry.
I like to say we're sharing andshowing Jesus that two-pronged
ministry where we're doing bothworks but also word.
(44:29):
Then we can do that in thiscommunity center and our
neighborhood gets to benefitfrom that.
In this community center andour neighborhood gets to benefit
from that, they'll have apretty clean space that's
state-of-the-art, with optionsfor them to do, that's
extracurricular to go to.
That's right in theirneighborhood.
That's going to begame-changing.
That's going to be hope forpeople that are hopeless, that
(44:50):
walk out the doors and see trashin the ground.
Well, now, through our effort,we can clean it up but they can
go down the street and go to therec center and play ball and
feel safe and be connected.
Man, I'm excited for that and Ihear a lot of good things about
our mayor.
You know I'm excited to seewhat's going to come from this
new administration and I'm alsohopeful.
(45:11):
I'm hoping that, with some ofthe recent challenges we've had
in our government, that this newturnover will be pretty good
for the future of our citybecause, man Lord knows, we need
it.
So I hear about a lot of newbuildings being developed.
I hear about a number of fewother areas, like Belle Haven, a
district, being developed inother parts of the city, fondren
(45:32):
, I guess, is continuing to bemore and more developed parts of
the city, foundry, and it getsto continue to be um, more and
more developed.
So I would say those, thosethings that that that add, I
would say um beauty to Jackson,um that adds jobs to Jackson,
that adds infrastructure and andand excitement and joy to
Jackson.
Um, those things excitement,because I'm I'm always looking
(45:54):
for places and opportunities togive people that's in our, in
our parish hope um for for thefuture, um, because when you
walk out your door and you feelhopeless, you turn to evil and
dark things, and so we can givethem hope through, through
excitement, through the gospeland through fellowship, through
the church man, that those arethe kind of things that make me
excited no, no, brother.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Those are the things that make us excited, man.
Those are the things that makeus excited and, and and I'm, I'm
excited, man, and when God isdoing like you said in in, in
our capital city.
Of course, I'm a Vicksburg guy,vicksburg native, but I spent a
lot of time in the capital cityand I'm excited to to see all
that the Lord is doing at um, atRedeemer Church.
Uh, maybe, maybe, me and Nettieand Austin will find a nice
(46:40):
little, nice little home that wecan, we can, purchase so that
you can um, come by and throw acookout on the block for us.
Uh, but, but it's, but it's,brother, it's an incredible
privilege to spend some timewith you, man, and to glean some
lessons.
I know our listeners areprobably writing plenty of notes
and taking some thoughts awayfrom this podcast.
(47:03):
Man, how can people keep upwith you, jerome?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Yeah, brother, you kind of broke it, but what did
you say?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I'm sorry, how can people keep up with you, jerome?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Oh yeah, man, hey, hey, look, you can follow me on
instagram jerome douglas jr.
Jerome underscore douglas jr.
Uh.
But, man, come to the church,man, we and we're here, north
side drive, 640 east north sidedrive.
Uh, come check us out.
If you're in the area, if youknow anybody who need a church
home, we let a love on them um,here.
So instagram, that's a bigplace, but also coming through
the church.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Jerome, I just have one last thing.
Yeah, my family are going totake a road trip on the East
Coast and we're going to end upin DC.
So, man, tell me where to goand where not to go.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Well, there's nowhere not to go.
You need to go everywhere in DC, but hey, make sure you stop by
.
Go to Ben's Chili Bowl.
It's a little different how itused to be, but go to Ben's
Chili Bowl, get your half smokedwith chili, cheese and beans
and, yeah, man, enjoy it, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
We plan to hang out at the Ford Theater, the Bible
Museum and the African-AmericanMuseum and Martin Luther King's
statue.
Those are the places we'regoing to try to hit.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Hey, man, if you get a chance, go check out Tabiti's
area.
In Southeast they got acommunity center called the Ark,
essentially what we're tryingto do with Chastain.
If in the Lowell purchase it,they've done with the arc in the
in southeast dc um, and so ifyou get a chance to check out
tabidi and what he's doing overthere with that group, man,
it'll be a sight to see, um, soI will employ you to do that too
(48:50):
.
All right now, thanks brother,it's been incredible.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Thank you so very much for your time.
Uh, those that are listening,please feel free to subscribe,
like and share this podcast.
Um, we love what we do.
We love the guests that we geta chance to speak with.
We want you uh to have theopportunity to uh have the joy
of hearing uh from, uh, from ourguests.
Um, the and joy that we get achance to experience.
(49:17):
So please like, share,subscribe.
Living Reconciled.
You can search on any podcastapp Living Reconciled, mission,
mississippi.
On behalf of my good friendNettie Winters, austin Hoyle and
our guest, jerome Douglas.
This is Brian Crawford signingoff saying God bless, god bless,
god bless, peace.
Thanks for joining LivingReconciled.
(49:37):
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionmississippiorg or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.