November 12, 2025 • 52 mins
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In this episode, Bishop Henry Joseph shares how two words—“It’s time”—transformed his life from gangs, addiction, and homelessness to healing, reconciliation, and mission. From Compton and Skid Row to Malawi and back to Jackson, Henry recounts his journey of radical obedience, global ministry, and building a multiracial church rooted in the gospel. Hear how faith carried him through loss, recovery, and calling—and why Jesus remains the center of true reconciliation.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:12):
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hi, I'm Nettie Winters.
I am your host today.
Generally, you would have uhBrian Crawford and uh Austin
Horror with me today, but mypartners in crime are somewhere
doing other excellent things inthe Lord's name.
And so I am solo this morning tohost you on uh Living Reconcile
broadcast here, a podcast here.
(00:49):
I will get to my guest in just amoment.
I'm ex I'm really excited aboutmy guest.
I've been knowing him for quitesome time.
He's a great man of God, and uhhe has a story that needs to be
told over and over again.
So I'm I'm really lookingforward to business with him and
having a good time this morning,uh sharing with him as we uh do
(01:11):
this this broadcast, podcast,not broadcast, podcast for
Living Reconciled.
But before we jump into thatconversation, I want to take a
moment to just give a big shoutout to our sponsors, uh, those
who make this podcast and thework of reconciliation across
our state possible.
We are grateful for partnerslike Me Sun, St.
(01:31):
Dominic's Hospital, AtmosEnergy, the Regents Foundation,
Mississippi College, Pine LakeChurch, Archer Church, Anderson
United Methodist Church, GraceTemple Church, Mississippi State
University, Real ChristianFoundation, Brown Missionary
Baptist Church, uh, a Christianlife church, along with friends
like Doris Powell, Robert Ward,and Ann Winter, and others that
(01:56):
help make our work possible.
We just want to tell you howmuch we appreciate you because
without you, we could not getthis work done and take the
message across uh the state ofMississippi and beyond.
And so we can't say enough totell you how much we thank you
for what you're doing that.
And if you'd like to join thisincredible group of sponsors,
you can do so by visitingmissionmississippi.org.
(02:18):
Click on the donate button,invest button at the top of the
right of the page, and that willtake you to our giving page
where you can invest not only inthis podcast, but also in the
ongoing work of reconciliationhappening across the state.
All right, now let's get intotoday's conversation.
My uh guest today is BishopHenry Joseph.
(02:41):
He is the illustrious pastor,lead pastor of New Horizon
Church International.
Uh Bishop, welcome to ourprogram.
We're excited you're with ustoday.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Good morning.
Good morning, Nettie Winners.
It's it's great to be with youthis morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Yeah, I'm excited.
So, you know, uh uh Henry, youknow, I've been knowing you.
I guess it's okay to call youHenry.
I know you've been Bishop in thepast.
Yeah, so you know, I rememberthe days of of uh bringing
promise keepers to Jackson andall of that.
And so uh you got a great storythough.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about who Henry
(03:20):
Joseph is?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Well, again, thank you for the invitation this
morning.
It's great to be with you.
Um yeah, as I told you before,you're sure you want me to shock
your listeners with my story,but I'm always eager to share uh
what God has done in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Um Yeah, I was I'm eager for you to share your
story because you said a shockfolks, but you know, I you know,
God is in the business ofshocking folks.
God is in the business oftransforming folks.
So uh I think it'd be a greatstory for people to hear and to
know about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Well, I was born uh in 1960 in in Compton,
California.
Um had a great family, had uhfive other siblings.
Um my mother had uh married uhfor the second time after her
first husband uh passed away inan industrial accident.
(04:19):
She and him both were fromJackson, but my father was from
New Orleans, and both of themhad moved out to California just
looking for that better life, uhbetter opportunities, and and
quite honestly, escaping uh JimCrow.
Um I guess uh the most firstsignificant thing after my birth
(04:44):
was my uh father passed awaywhen I was only 10 years old.
He was an assistant pastor of abig Baptist church in uh in Los
Angeles and left my mother uhwith uh with four kids still at
home, uh really fine.
(05:04):
And she only had a 10th gradeeducation.
My dad had bought a brand newhouse, and my mother was uh was
a housewife, so I'll neverforget her getting a phone call
one day.
And she hung the phone up andshe uh began to sing that old
(05:24):
Negro spiritual uh the Lord willmake a way somehow.
Uh my mother was a great prayinguh woman.
And what had happened, she hadjust got hired as uh to Hughes
helicopter uh or Hughes aircraftas an electronic assembler,
(05:47):
which is a fancy term for hersitting down at a desk with a
spool of soldering iron and asoldering iron and making
circuit boards all day.
But she uh took advantage of thetraining opportunities and kept
moving up, moving up.
And when she retired, uh just atestimony of how great she was,
(06:08):
uh, when she retired, she wasfinal inspector for radar
systems for the space shuttle.
A little 10th grade educationfrom Jackson, Mississippi.
But obviously she was a powerfulwoman and and a brilliant woman.
But while she was working from 6to 6, uh the streets were were
(06:30):
raising me.
Um I joined the gang probablywhen I was only 14, uh, began to
dabble in drugs uh at 15,started selling at 16, uh went
to jail for the first time uh at18, uh got hooked on crack
(06:51):
eventually at uh at 19.
And um from there literally justtraveled around the U.S.
and was literally locked up infour different states.
I've been to jail in fourdifferent states.
I eventually settled in NewOrleans, where I met my lovely
(07:14):
wife, who I've been married tonow for 40 years, by the grace
of God.
Uh, but I I still had a drugproblem that eventually um led
me to be homeless uh here inJackson.
As crazy as it sounds, I used tosleep in Battlefield Park.
(07:35):
Um then I moved back toCalifornia, and I was homeless
on Skid Row in downtown LosAngeles for over two years.
And I was still hooked on crack,homeless, and now uh I was HIV
positive.
And I was I was just in badshape.
(07:56):
I was in bad shape.
And uh one day in 1992, um I hadan encounter with God in a crack
motel.
Uh I heard the voice of God, andthat voice said two words.
He said, It's time.
(08:18):
And in those two prophetic wordsfrom the voice of God, I knew
exactly what he was saying.
Uh he was saying it's time togive me, to give your life to
me, and I did.
Uh I walked to the Long BeachRescue Mission, and uh they knew
(08:38):
me quite well because I was aregular client.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Uh to the point when I asked when I asked the sound
like a couple of when theprincipal knows your name.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
To the point when I asked the chaplain um that I
wanted to join the program, hedidn't think I was serious.
Uh so he said, Well, I tell youwhat, you go out there and sit
in the courtyard.
Uh and if you're here tomorrow,uh I'm gonna let you in the
program, a one-year, highlydisciplined Christian rehab
(09:14):
program.
And as he was telling me that, Iwas uh scanning his bookcase,
and I said, Well, if I gotta sitout here all day and all night,
at least let me read a book.
And one book really caught myeye, and it was called Born
Again by Chuck Carlson.
Turns out um I read that book,and based on his testimony, I
(09:38):
made a real intelligent,intelligent, uh, intentional uh
confession of my sins andputting my faith in Christ.
Little did I know, uh two monthslater, after I get took me
almost two, three months just toget sober, uh about two months
(10:01):
in, I remembered I was HIVpositive.
And um, this was back in '92.
And I eventually uh I went toget uh tested again so I could
start treatment, uh, even thoughthere was little treatment back
then.
Well, come to find out, the testcame back a couple of weeks
(10:21):
later, I was negative.
And the Lord had told me Ihealed you.
Uh when you gave me your life,uh I healed you of HIV.
And that was 33 years ago.
I'm still here, I'm stillhealthy, I'm still negative.
Uh, but God did a miracle in mylife.
(10:41):
And I stayed in the program for14 months, very disciplined, but
I um God had given me a realpassion for studying his word
and praying and uh asking him toreconcile me with my wife, who I
hadn't seen in three years, uh,but we had never divorced.
(11:06):
And um after 10 months offervent prayer, uh, we
reconciled, and she came to mygraduation.
Um, they wanted to hire me as achaplain.
I was uh I did so well, but uh Iwanted to come back to Jackson
and uh be with my wife and uhstart this new life.
(11:27):
Um that's brought me to where Iam today.
So that's that's my first halfof my life.
And I'll let you ask somequestions about this second
half.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
You you know, that's an amazing story.
And uh not only did God saveyou, but he healed you.
And I don't know, I don't know,I don't know whether people are
shocked because of the greatnessof God, or it took you from, or
(12:00):
you're saying it just, you know,your background and so forth.
I think God just uh demonstratedthrough your life that uh
nothing is impossible, allthings are possible with him.
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
I have uh when I was teaching one day uh in the
pulpit, uh, and this happens tome sometimes, the Lord uh uh
speak to me while I'm speakingto others.
And and usually it's not even onthe same subject.
(12:30):
But um while I was teaching outof the clear blue sky, the Lord
whispers to me and said, uh, youknow why you didn't die when
they were shooting at you in NewOrleans?
You know why you didn't die whenthey tried to stab you in that
motel room?
You know why you didn't die whenthat six foot four, three
(12:54):
hundred-pound guy tried to hityou in the head with a baseball
bat.
The Lord said, Because you werea bishop.
But you didn't know it.
But I was protecting you as aman of God, even when you were
homeless, HIV, positive,crackhead.
(13:15):
And then when I had this callfrom God, I then stepped into
who I already was, andeverything that was not part of
my calling had to fall off ofme, including HIV.
(13:36):
Um, and so that's how I surviveduh the streets.
God was protecting me because heknew I had a destiny, but I
didn't become, this is crazy.
I didn't become a bishop whenBishop Wellington Boone ordained
me.
I was called to be a bishopbefore the foundation of the
(13:57):
world.
And I just had to step into thereality that God already had for
my life.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
Man, I noticed that that in your resume you have the
word global ministry andfaithful obedience.
Talk a little bit about the thesecond half, as you say.
Well, I know I noticed you didhave a global, uh, what do you
want to call it?
(15:09):
A global crime streak orsomething?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
No, this is my post-crime criminal career.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Um but after well, you know, you ain't gonna find
that Apostle Paul was ajailbird.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Yeah, but that's true too.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
For a different reason than you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
But um, yeah, so I I moved back to I moved back to
Jackson in 1993, um, reconciledwith my wife, and uh worked a
secular job as a commercialartist uh for several years
before uh I took my firstmission trip.
(15:51):
Uh uh eventually I was workingat Gateway Rescue Mission.
I was their program manager andeventually their director of
development.
Um, but while I was workingthere, uh I went on my first
mission trip to Malawi, Africawith uh our sister church, which
(16:12):
was uh Trinity PresbyterianChurch when it existed.
And that trip changed my life.
Uh how so?
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
I I hear people saying it often so give us a
unfold that some more for us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
Well, first, you know, when I stepped off the the
airplane and I walked down thisthe gangway, uh the steps, I set
one foot on the tarmac, and Ihad this supernatural
experience, almost likesomething out of a science
fiction movie, that somethingfrom the ground grabbed my leg
(16:51):
and began to move all through mybody.
And I had this overwhelmingsensation that I had come home.
I had felt something that Ididn't even feel at home, and
that was the feeling of beinghome.
(17:13):
Uh, and then it was just a greattrip to Malawi at that time, it
was uh one of the poorestcountries uh in the world,
literally.
Uh most people made less than adollar a day uh when I was uh
going there.
But I became really hooked oncross-cultural missions to the
(17:35):
point I came back and appointedmyself missions pastor.
I didn't ask anybody, I justsaid this is what I would do.
And uh I began to lead teams touh sub-Saharan Africa every
year, uh, particularly pastorswho would uh help me do
(17:58):
leadership training and pastoraltraining.
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Yeah, so um then I was there on a trip in 2003, and
this is amazing.
I heard the Lord as clearly as Idid the day I got saved in that
crack motel.
And what God told me while I wasin Malawi, let me back up a
(18:28):
little bit because it's kind offunny.
So Pastor uh Robert McCullumfrom Priestley Chapel Baptist
Church in Canton, Mississippi,was on this team.
Uh I wasn't, I think I was justa minister, a licensed minister
at the time.
And uh so I'm letting thepastors uh talk to our uh elders
(18:51):
from our host church who we hada partnership with, and I'm just
sitting over in the cornertaking notes on my laptop.
And uh the question came up uhbetween those elders was how
could we serve you in theupcoming year?
And uh the host church said,Well, we've been without a
(19:14):
pastor for two years.
We've had an interim, but we'relooking now for somebody more
permanent.
And they went down this longlist of qualifications, uh,
doctorate, 10 years experience,uh you know, having graduated
from seminary, having pastored across-cultural church and done
(19:36):
cross-cultural mission work inthe past and going on and on.
So when they said that, RobertMcCullum turns around, almost
turns his head all the wayaround.
And if you know Robert McCullum,he's got a great sense of humor,
so he makes a joke.
He said, I thought I know itvery well.
Yeah, he said, Well, well,Henry, why don't you do it?
(20:00):
And everybody started laughing,you know, it was a joke.
But as soon as he finisheduttering the sentence, the Holy
Spirit rushed in that room andturned his joke into a prophecy.
And at that moment, the Lordspoke to me and said, Go home,
(20:23):
give away everything you own,and move you and your wife and
your family to Malawi andminister my word and help my
people.
That was in November, uh, no,October of uh 20 uh 2003.
(20:45):
Uh, we came right back.
I came right back with my wifein December because she had
never been there before.
But let me back up again when Icame home and I said, the Lord's
calling us uh to move to Africa.
Uh she was silent, and I said itagain, and she started laughing.
(21:05):
So I said it again, and she sheuh she then knew I was serious.
And she looked me in the eye andshe started moving that head
back and forth.
She said, I'll see you when youget back.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Had those kind of conversations before.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
But we prayed and and we fasted, and God confirmed
the word.
And within three months, we didexactly what he told us to do,
and I was doing really good bythen.
Had four cars, uh, twobusinesses, both me and my wife
had good jobs.
Uh, we were getting by our dreamhouse, and the Lord said, give
it away.
(21:46):
It was so strong, the voice andthe instruction of the Lord, I
couldn't pray about it.
Because it was nothing to prayabout.
It was the issue, are you goingto be obedient or not?
And I always felt when in thesecallings that if I didn't do
what God told me to do, I wouldput myself in my march of two
(22:26):
thousand and four, we had movedum to Malawi.
And that year, according to theCIA fact book, Malawi was the
poorest country in the world.
And uh I took over a churchplanted by Southern Baptists,
which was still unusual in theheart of the capital of the
(22:49):
city, very influential church.
Uh, and it grew.
We had over 42 nationsrepresented in our congregation.
And uh over seven years we grewfrom 300 to over a thousand
people, and by the time I left,we were having uh five worship
services in three differentlanguages.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Man, that that's an amazing story.
So that was there was noapprehension or or or uh
resistance from the church tosay, you know, they laid aside
their big resume requirementsand things and hired you?
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
Yeah, there was this one elder, uh Willy Arritt.
He was German, and he just hejust knew very wasn't your
typical German personality.
He was very humble, veryspiritual, uh, really loved the
(23:51):
Lord.
And the Lord must have spoken tohim because he just advocated uh
for me uh as one of the chiefelders to be um the senior
pastor of Capitol City BaptistChurch.
Because, as you just noted, thatlong list of uh requirements
(24:12):
that they had, I could Icouldn't tick one of the boxes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
Well you not one where the safety says name.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, that's that's that's about the only thing I uh
I could fill in.
Everything else was blank.
And uh but uh you know I hadsome great referral letters, you
know, from Bishop Krude, uh fromuh Steve Lanier, uh from
Redeemer, uh, and a couple ofother pastors, and everybody
(24:47):
knew I were I was the person,even though I didn't have the
qualifications, everybody knewit was a call from God.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, well when you put Goebbels ministry down
there, I'm talking about it itstands out uh in in terms of
that.
It stands out uh as as itrelates to that.
Now, one time you had anewspaper called proclaim.
How did that come about?
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
That's a that was another great testimony.
How did you name it proclaim?
Well, that was another great uhtestimony.
Um yeah, so uh we were up nearMeridian uh during a pastor's
conference.
Me and Bishop Krudep wereteaching uh at a church, and
something just unusual happened.
(25:36):
This lady walked in boldly, hada camera in her hand, walked
down the middle aisle whilewe're I'm literally teaching.
She takes some photographs, sheturns around, she leaves and
comes back, and she puts some uhnewspapers in the newspaper
stand in the foyer.
(25:57):
Um so I picked one up after uhafter my session, and as soon as
I picked the newspaper up, theLord spoke to me again.
He said, uh, I want you to starta newspaper and name it,
proclaim, but start it when Itell you.
(26:17):
Um so I held that word, andabout a year and a half later,
he said, Okay, it's time.
And he gave me every detailedstrategy of how to produce this
Christian publication and uhthat distributed in central
Mississippi.
(26:37):
And I did exactly what the Lorduh instructed, and we put out
our first issue, and quitehonestly, I made all my initial
investment back in the firstissue with profit, and uh it was
uh it was very successful allthe way up to when I moved to
(26:59):
Malawi, and the Lord told me togive it away.
And uh brother came to me andsaid the Lord spoke to him.
So I literally gave thenewspaper away, but it was uh it
was probably the first blackChristian publication in
Mississippi, and it was verygood.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Yeah, I know.
I used to subscribe to uh usedto bring us uh the newspaper
around the missionists at theoffice and uh stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
Going back to uh you identifying my global ministry,
so while I was in Malawi, andthis is just still blows my
mind.
I thought I was just going topastor this church and uh be a
good under shepherd uh for theLord, but it turns out he had
much bigger uh ideas in ministryfor me.
(27:54):
Uh so I led a an orphan'sministry of over 600 children.
I had a uh a national uh radioprogram that was heard
throughout the country twice aweek.
Um probably the most powerfulthing was uh uh planted
churches, uh both in Malawi andBurundi, in Pakistan and South
(28:20):
Africa, all as a result of beinga missionary pastor in uh in
Malawi.
Also, uh while in Malawi, uhthere was an executive team from
the Luzon movement that came toour church, and I was preaching
that day, and after service,they said, You're this kind of
(28:44):
person uh that we want to attendLuzon because you you can only
attend the Luzon conferences byinvitation.
Um and not only did they chooseme to go, they gave me a
scholarship, they flew me, putme in a four-star hotel.
Uh, so I was able to participatein the Luzon Congress in Cape
(29:09):
Town in 2010, and then uh I wasuh nominated again, uh just uh I
think it was 2024, uh for theSeoul Korea Luzon uh conference.
Uh because they've only had fourconferences in uh the 50-year
(29:32):
history of the movement, andI've been blessed to be invited
to two of them, which uh onaverage about 5,000 people from
every single country in theworld uh is in attendance.
It's just a great, greatevangelical movement.
Oh I'm telling you all this,it's the boy from the
(29:57):
neighborhood that God set up todo great things around the
world.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
You know, working in global ministry like that and
being a missionary pastor and soforth, but you know, mission
mission is about getting peopleto live out the reconciliation
in in Christ Jesus in a way thatwe cross those demarcations of
race specifically as you know uhethnicities and so forth.
(30:26):
And so uh, how did all that workfor you in terms of that, in
terms of race relations?
Well, these mixed audience andand uh how how did it tell me a
little bit about that, how thatworks out.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
Well, I think uh again, as you know, I I I was on
staff with Promise Keepers foruh I believe three, three years.
Um I think Promise Keepers was arevival.
I think it's probably thegreatest reconciliation movement
uh in America uh to date, uhparticularly among Christians.
(31:05):
And um I really learned a lotabout reconciliation during
those uh three years workingunder Coach uh uh McCartney.
Uh I took those experiences uhto South Africa where I planted
(31:25):
a church called Grace Church.
And I'm when I was pastoring inSouth Africa, it was uh just a
few years post uh apartheid.
Uh and God had called me to be areconciler uh because during the
apartheid era, uh the church wasum uh separated uh into real,
(31:55):
real confined silos.
You had the Dutch Reform, youhad uh Assemblies of God, you
had Baptists, but most of thesedenominations were birthed out
of apartheid, meaning thatwhites and blacks and colors
could not uh worship together.
(32:18):
It was extremely rare and uhperilous, quite honestly.
Uh, so a lot of thesedenominations are a result of uh
of racial segregation, and Godhad called me to preach a
message that would reconcilepeople to each other and to God.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Yeah, you use the word black and colored in the
same sense.
What's the distinction there?
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Well, in South Africa, uh because of the legacy
of apartheid, uh there werethree major races or ethnic
groups.
Uh your white Africanas, yourblack, uh indigenous Africans,
they hate being calledindigenous, so I'm just using
(33:13):
that as uh uh an informationalterm.
And then you had colors uh whowere uh mixed race, and uh
during apartheid, those uh threeethnic groups were totally
separated, uh even though uh theAfricanas made up only thirteen,
(33:39):
fourteen percent of the coun ofthe population, and this is
still crazy.
They had absolute control overthe whole country.
Physically, spiritually,mentally, economically,
geographically, thirteen percentof the population had absolute
(34:05):
control over the othereighty-five, somewhere around
there.
Um and the other uh eighty-fivewere blacks and colors.
Actually, me and you would beconsidered colored because of
our our lighter uh skin tone.
(34:26):
Uh, we would be considered mixedrace.
But under apartheid, we wouldstill uh be segregated and not
have the privileges of the whiteAfricanists.
unknown (34:40):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
You you you thoroughly have uh a great story
and it's worth telling, and andI've learned a lot.
I knew a lot about you.
I knew most of your story.
Uh I remember when you weredoing the uh working with Mitch
Mississippi here in Jackson tobring Promise Keepers here.
(35:02):
We did that twice, and uh um Ithought you were staying with
with both Promise Keepers andMiss Mississippi in terms of
that.
I remember helping raise money.
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
I love I love Mission Mississippi.
You know, I was at the firstrally at uh Memorial Stadium.
I'll never forget uh TomSkinner's message.
Uh that uh how long ago wasthat?
30, 30 something years ago?
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Yeah, I think this is our 33rd year.
It was in 1993.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah, so I was I've been there from the beginning
and uh always uh admired andloved the ministry of Mission
Mississippi, and certainly itwas needed, it's still needed,
and has made a significantimpact on the history of
Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
Oh, absolutely.
And uh so moving moving towards,you know, you you've given us
the first and second half.
Is it not now?
What do you call the the areayou in now?
What is what did your card face?
Is this a third quarter?
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
I'm headed into the fourth quarter now.
Um I'm I'll be 65 in a fewweeks.
Um I've been a member.
SPEAKER_01 (36:24):
Did you skip the third quarter?
I didn't hear about the secondquarter.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
I'm kind of going in the third.
I'm ending the third quarternow.
Uh actually, the third quarterwas the last five years, which
were probably the toughest of mylife.
Uh the third quarter was tough.
Uh I planted a church calledZion in uh Richland.
(36:51):
Um and I signed the lease andpaid that lease for a whole
year, two weeks before thepandemic.
Um given the landlord tens ofthousands of dollars, thinking,
okay, I have enough money to paythe lease for a year, that'd
give me enough chance to buildthe church and uh and not have
(37:16):
the pressure of having to pay uhthe lease.
Well, again, two weeks beforethe pandemic, and uh we couldn't
get any traction.
I mean, all of our evangelisticplans were scrapped.
We couldn't go door to door.
There were days we couldn't evenhave church.
Uh and I lunched out with onlyfive families.
(37:39):
And um 18 months and$400,000later, I had to close.
Uh and even in that 18 months, Ihad a severe uh uh uh uh vehicle
accident.
I hit a tree at 70 miles anhour.
Still don't know what happened.
Um I got the scar on myforehead, peeled my forehead
(38:04):
back to the skull, had uh twocracked ribs, bleeding on the
brain, uh, and walked out thehospital in three days.
Uh still don't even know how Isurvived.
Uh also had a severe case ofCOVID.
Uh me, my wife, my daughter, mymother-in-law, her son, his
(38:32):
wife, their daughter, all of ushad a severe case of COVID all
at the same time.
And because I had so manyfriends around the world, uh it
was a traumatizing time whensome of my closest friends were
passing away.
Uh then I had to close thechurch.
(38:53):
I was uh broke, I was uhjobless.
And uh yeah, it was that thirdquarter.
That's why I'm maybe that's whyI didn't want to mention it.
It was uh it was uh some toughyears, but I'm telling you,
really tough, but I I I'm gladyou asked me that because uh
(39:15):
even after the accident, um I'vebeen I had to do something that
I've been teaching for years.
Uh as I'm going through allthese different traumas, uh the
Lord said to me, Now you gottado what you've been teaching
(39:39):
others, that in the midst ofyour trials, you still gotta
worship me.
And I did.
Uh when I had uh severe bouts ofgout and had back uh slip discs
in my back, all of this in fiveyears, but I never lost my
(40:00):
praise and I never lost myworship.
And in the midst of pain, itstill felt good to know that God
is still good in the midst oftrials, and that you still can
give him praise and worship atdifficult times in my life.
(40:22):
So now I'm moving into thefourth quarter.
I've been a member of uh NewHorizon Church International for
33 years, walked out at rehab,moved to back to Jackson, and
moved into that church as amember.
Never in my wildest imaginationdid I think I would become a
(40:44):
minister, and certainly apastor, and you couldn't tell me
I was gonna be a bishop, andthen on top of that, that I
would eventually become thesenior pastor of New Horizon.
Only God could do something likethat.
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
I said only God, but God, man.
And so uh you never dreamt ofthat.
I was just thinking about youryour first two uh sharing with
us about your first two phasesuh of life, halftime and all of
that.
Is that in all of that, I knowthat where you are today was not
(41:22):
an inkling of thought oranything like that.
You know, tell us how that howdid that take place?
How did you get from planning achurch that that you had to
close, going back to Africa, andthen coming back?
We missed something in there.
Fill in a little bit of that forus.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Oh man, uh, first of all, in the midst of all of
this, and I I wrote a letter tothe elders in Bishop Crudep
eight years ago.
And in that letter, I statedthat I felt the Lord was calling
me to be uh the next pastor ofNew Horizon when Bishop Crudep
(42:07):
uh would move to something else.
Um and in that letter I said I'mgonna state this one time, but
I'm never gonna bring it upagain.
But I just need to let you knowthat this is what I feel the
Lord is is leading me to say.
So I wrote that letter, stillhave that letter eight years
(42:27):
later, but I carried that word,the word that I was going to be
pastor uh of New Horizon oneday.
Uh me and my wife carried thatword in simple obedience.
Uh we didn't lobby people, wedidn't go around saying, oh, I'm
gonna be pastor one day.
(42:48):
Uh we just kept it close to ourhearts.
And uh even when the Lord led usto move back to Africa about
three years ago, uh, I was stilluh questioning, you know, the
word the Lord gave me.
Uh and when I last thing I saidto Bishop Crudup, I said, uh, he
(43:10):
told me that he had chosensomeone else.
And I said, Well, you know, I'malways gonna be here for you.
And probably one of the mostsincerest, sincerest looks and
responses I've ever gotten fromBishop Crudep.
He looked me in the eye and hesaid, I know Henry.
I know.
(43:30):
And uh, when it didn't work outand uh in in in uh Malawi, I
moved back to uh uh be thecampus director for African
Bible College in Le Longwe.
Um huge responsibility.
I was supervising 400 employeesin this ministry.
(43:51):
Uh thinking I'm gonna live inMalawi the whole rest of my
life, even though I still gotthis word that I'm gonna be
senior pastor.
Well, God worked it where I onlystayed four and a half months,
uh, where something happenedthat was quite honestly very
devastating to us, uh, me and mywife, because we thought we were
(44:13):
coming out of this, you know,five-year trials, and uh by
moving back to Africa, andinstead of that being true, we
were uh quite honestly, uhsomebody hijacked my character,
uh lied on me uh to the board ofdirectors, and they didn't renew
(44:33):
my contract.
And how it happened wasdevastating.
Uh devastating.
But we came back uh to toJackson.
Uh the Lord told me to just waiton him and said very clearly,
don't go get a job at Walmart.
(44:54):
I know it's tough, but trust me,you've trusted me before, and I
did.
And with one foot off the cliff,he grabbed me again and saved me
at the last moment.
And um some of this I had totell you in private, but um the
(45:16):
day or the week before BishopKrudep is sending out a letter
announcing uh his choice for hissuccessor, something happens
where uh he changes his mind.
And uh God changed his mind.
He changed his mind, and Ibecame the candidate, and uh
(45:41):
even then I had to wait a yearand a half uh before I took
over, but I then I was patient.
And uh sure enough, the word theLord had given me eight years
ago that I would be seniorpastor has come to pass, and and
church is doing great.
We're researching, uh stillcommitted to South Jackson.
(46:04):
We're probably the biggestchurch in South Jackson right
now.
Um and uh things are goingextremely well.
SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, uh with a MissionMississippi host, we're gonna
ask this word about uhmulti-part and multiracial
congregations and things likethat.
And so how how are you moving ittoward that area?
Uh what's your vision or yourpassion for us?
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
Well, we've always wanted to be.
Uh we weren't as intentional aswe could, but I see something
happening that we're trying toseize the opportunity, and uh I
hope nobody gets offended, butwe've had several uh uh
Cartesian uh people that havestarted coming to New Horizon,
(46:58):
and their reasoning is that theydon't feel like they're getting
fed at uh their traditionalchurches.
Um for some reason they like mypreaching that yes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:14):
Well, I understand I I've I've heard you on many
occasions and experience thepower of God through you.
So I I understand and appreciatetheir acclamation towards you in
in terms of the church and whatit's doing, but you you're you
you God is doing it, as youknow.
Um I I think we need to probablyput a bow on this.
(47:35):
It's been great visiting withyou and uh hearing your story.
It's it's amazing.
Um so you got uh a few minuteshere that you can say to the
audience.
Uh uh, what would you like tosay?
What would you like them toremember beyond all the
miracles, wonders, and signs Godhas done in your life thus far?
(47:57):
What would you like to uh say tothem as it relates to trusting
God and being faithful?
SPEAKER_00 (48:03):
That's easy for me.
Um you know, when I became apastor, uh when you enter that
office, you immediately feel uha sense of power and influence.
And you immediately know I canuse this influence for my
(48:26):
personal gain if if I reallywanted to.
But God never gave me that kindof personality or character.
What he has given me, and uh Ifeel this is a true grace from
God.
I still see the gospel of ChristJesus clearly, and I say that
(48:51):
very intentionally because as Itravel around the world, I meet
different pastors.
There are a lot of ministriesthat they're not preaching Jesus
anymore.
They don't see Jesus as clearlyas they should.
I've been blessed with a gracethat I still see the gospel as
(49:13):
preeminent and clear.
Uh but with that grace comes aweight of responsibility, and
that is I have to proclaim it.
If I still see it clearly, I'mnot uh contaminated with any
other ambitions.
(49:33):
I gotta preach that gospel, andI want to encourage the
listeners to do the same.
If you still see Jesus clearly,that is a grace from God, but it
comes with a weight ofresponsibility.
You gotta preach that gospel.
Whether you're a layperson, adeacon, a minister, a pastor, a
(49:55):
bishop, if you still see Jesus,preach Jesus and his
preeminence, his redemption, andhis return for his church.
So thank you for allowing me tobe with you this morning,
Nettie.
(50:16):
I pray that my testimony and mywords have been a blessing uh to
the listeners, and I've beengreatly honored to spend time
with you this morning.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
Same here.
We appreciate you being herewith us, and uh there's so much
more for you to tell us.
And and, you know, I don't know,uh I'm not the the chief head
honcho here, but Brian Crawfordis, and I'm sure that we will
get another opportunity to sharethis time with you.
Uh, thank you for uh sharingwith us and being transparent in
(50:46):
your in your sharing with us.
Um I'm I'm just so um elated tohave listened more deeply this
time than I have in the past.
And uh we thank you for yourwords, thank you for your
encouragement, and thank you forbeing a partner.
New Horizon International hasbeen a partner with Miss
Mississippi from the verybeginning, continue to do that
today.
So we're excited about that.
Bishop served on the originalboard.
(51:07):
Uh Bishop Kruger did.
And uh, as you were part of thatchurch, you uh join in with us,
bringing Promise Keepers toMississippi a couple of times.
And so we're excited about allof those things that uh we
parted together with.
Join us uh uh on any podcastnetwork found uh platform you
can find Living Reconcile andjoin us there.
(51:30):
Uh God bless and God keep you.
Thank you so much, Mitchell.
SPEAKER_00 (51:35):
You're welcome.
God bless you.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (51:38):
Thanks for joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionistissippi.org or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated
to giving our communitiespractical evidence of the gospel
message by helping Christianslearn how to live in the
reconciliation that Jesus hasalready secured for us by living
with grace across racial lines.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hi, I'm Nettie Winters.
I am your host today.
Generally, you would have uhBrian Crawford and uh Austin
Horror with me today, but mypartners in crime are somewhere
doing other excellent things inthe Lord's name.
And so I am solo this morning tohost you on uh Living Reconcile
broadcast here, a podcast here.
(00:49):
I will get to my guest in just amoment.
I'm ex I'm really excited aboutmy guest.
I've been knowing him for quitesome time.
He's a great man of God, and uhhe has a story that needs to be
told over and over again.
So I'm I'm really lookingforward to business with him and
having a good time this morning,uh sharing with him as we uh do
(01:11):
this this broadcast, podcast,not broadcast, podcast for
Living Reconciled.
But before we jump into thatconversation, I want to take a
moment to just give a big shoutout to our sponsors, uh, those
who make this podcast and thework of reconciliation across
our state possible.
We are grateful for partnerslike Me Sun, St.
(01:31):
Dominic's Hospital, AtmosEnergy, the Regents Foundation,
Mississippi College, Pine LakeChurch, Archer Church, Anderson
United Methodist Church, GraceTemple Church, Mississippi State
University, Real ChristianFoundation, Brown Missionary
Baptist Church, uh, a Christianlife church, along with friends
like Doris Powell, Robert Ward,and Ann Winter, and others that
(01:56):
help make our work possible.
We just want to tell you howmuch we appreciate you because
without you, we could not getthis work done and take the
message across uh the state ofMississippi and beyond.
And so we can't say enough totell you how much we thank you
for what you're doing that.
And if you'd like to join thisincredible group of sponsors,
you can do so by visitingmissionmississippi.org.
(02:18):
Click on the donate button,invest button at the top of the
right of the page, and that willtake you to our giving page
where you can invest not only inthis podcast, but also in the
ongoing work of reconciliationhappening across the state.
All right, now let's get intotoday's conversation.
My uh guest today is BishopHenry Joseph.
(02:41):
He is the illustrious pastor,lead pastor of New Horizon
Church International.
Uh Bishop, welcome to ourprogram.
We're excited you're with ustoday.
SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Good morning.
Good morning, Nettie Winners.
It's it's great to be with youthis morning.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Yeah, I'm excited.
So, you know, uh uh Henry, youknow, I've been knowing you.
I guess it's okay to call youHenry.
I know you've been Bishop in thepast.
Yeah, so you know, I rememberthe days of of uh bringing
promise keepers to Jackson andall of that.
And so uh you got a great storythough.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about who Henry
(03:20):
Joseph is?
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Well, again, thank you for the invitation this
morning.
It's great to be with you.
Um yeah, as I told you before,you're sure you want me to shock
your listeners with my story,but I'm always eager to share uh
what God has done in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Um Yeah, I was I'm eager for you to share your
story because you said a shockfolks, but you know, I you know,
God is in the business ofshocking folks.
God is in the business oftransforming folks.
So uh I think it'd be a greatstory for people to hear and to
know about.
SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Well, I was born uh in 1960 in in Compton,
California.
Um had a great family, had uhfive other siblings.
Um my mother had uh married uhfor the second time after her
first husband uh passed away inan industrial accident.
(04:19):
She and him both were fromJackson, but my father was from
New Orleans, and both of themhad moved out to California just
looking for that better life, uhbetter opportunities, and and
quite honestly, escaping uh JimCrow.
Um I guess uh the most firstsignificant thing after my birth
(04:44):
was my uh father passed awaywhen I was only 10 years old.
He was an assistant pastor of abig Baptist church in uh in Los
Angeles and left my mother uhwith uh with four kids still at
home, uh really fine.
(05:04):
And she only had a 10th gradeeducation.
My dad had bought a brand newhouse, and my mother was uh was
a housewife, so I'll neverforget her getting a phone call
one day.
And she hung the phone up andshe uh began to sing that old
(05:24):
Negro spiritual uh the Lord willmake a way somehow.
Uh my mother was a great prayinguh woman.
And what had happened, she hadjust got hired as uh to Hughes
helicopter uh or Hughes aircraftas an electronic assembler,
(05:47):
which is a fancy term for hersitting down at a desk with a
spool of soldering iron and asoldering iron and making
circuit boards all day.
But she uh took advantage of thetraining opportunities and kept
moving up, moving up.
And when she retired, uh just atestimony of how great she was,
(06:08):
uh, when she retired, she wasfinal inspector for radar
systems for the space shuttle.
A little 10th grade educationfrom Jackson, Mississippi.
But obviously she was a powerfulwoman and and a brilliant woman.
But while she was working from 6to 6, uh the streets were were
(06:30):
raising me.
Um I joined the gang probablywhen I was only 14, uh, began to
dabble in drugs uh at 15,started selling at 16, uh went
to jail for the first time uh at18, uh got hooked on crack
(06:51):
eventually at uh at 19.
And um from there literally justtraveled around the U.S.
and was literally locked up infour different states.
I've been to jail in fourdifferent states.
I eventually settled in NewOrleans, where I met my lovely
(07:14):
wife, who I've been married tonow for 40 years, by the grace
of God.
Uh, but I I still had a drugproblem that eventually um led
me to be homeless uh here inJackson.
As crazy as it sounds, I used tosleep in Battlefield Park.
(07:35):
Um then I moved back toCalifornia, and I was homeless
on Skid Row in downtown LosAngeles for over two years.
And I was still hooked on crack,homeless, and now uh I was HIV
positive.
And I was I was just in badshape.
(07:56):
I was in bad shape.
And uh one day in 1992, um I hadan encounter with God in a crack
motel.
Uh I heard the voice of God, andthat voice said two words.
He said, It's time.
(08:18):
And in those two prophetic wordsfrom the voice of God, I knew
exactly what he was saying.
Uh he was saying it's time togive me, to give your life to
me, and I did.
Uh I walked to the Long BeachRescue Mission, and uh they knew
(08:38):
me quite well because I was aregular client.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Uh to the point when I asked when I asked the sound
like a couple of when theprincipal knows your name.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
To the point when I asked the chaplain um that I
wanted to join the program, hedidn't think I was serious.
Uh so he said, Well, I tell youwhat, you go out there and sit
in the courtyard.
Uh and if you're here tomorrow,uh I'm gonna let you in the
program, a one-year, highlydisciplined Christian rehab
(09:14):
program.
And as he was telling me that, Iwas uh scanning his bookcase,
and I said, Well, if I gotta sitout here all day and all night,
at least let me read a book.
And one book really caught myeye, and it was called Born
Again by Chuck Carlson.
Turns out um I read that book,and based on his testimony, I
(09:38):
made a real intelligent,intelligent, uh, intentional uh
confession of my sins andputting my faith in Christ.
Little did I know, uh two monthslater, after I get took me
almost two, three months just toget sober, uh about two months
(10:01):
in, I remembered I was HIVpositive.
And um, this was back in '92.
And I eventually uh I went toget uh tested again so I could
start treatment, uh, even thoughthere was little treatment back
then.
Well, come to find out, the testcame back a couple of weeks
(10:21):
later, I was negative.
And the Lord had told me Ihealed you.
Uh when you gave me your life,uh I healed you of HIV.
And that was 33 years ago.
I'm still here, I'm stillhealthy, I'm still negative.
Uh, but God did a miracle in mylife.
(10:41):
And I stayed in the program for14 months, very disciplined, but
I um God had given me a realpassion for studying his word
and praying and uh asking him toreconcile me with my wife, who I
hadn't seen in three years, uh,but we had never divorced.
(11:06):
And um after 10 months offervent prayer, uh, we
reconciled, and she came to mygraduation.
Um, they wanted to hire me as achaplain.
I was uh I did so well, but uh Iwanted to come back to Jackson
and uh be with my wife and uhstart this new life.
(11:27):
Um that's brought me to where Iam today.
So that's that's my first halfof my life.
And I'll let you ask somequestions about this second
half.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
You you know, that's an amazing story.
And uh not only did God saveyou, but he healed you.
And I don't know, I don't know,I don't know whether people are
shocked because of the greatnessof God, or it took you from, or
(12:00):
you're saying it just, you know,your background and so forth.
I think God just uh demonstratedthrough your life that uh
nothing is impossible, allthings are possible with him.
SPEAKER_00 (12:10):
I have uh when I was teaching one day uh in the
pulpit, uh, and this happens tome sometimes, the Lord uh uh
speak to me while I'm speakingto others.
And and usually it's not even onthe same subject.
(12:30):
But um while I was teaching outof the clear blue sky, the Lord
whispers to me and said, uh, youknow why you didn't die when
they were shooting at you in NewOrleans?
You know why you didn't die whenthey tried to stab you in that
motel room?
You know why you didn't die whenthat six foot four, three
(12:54):
hundred-pound guy tried to hityou in the head with a baseball
bat.
The Lord said, Because you werea bishop.
But you didn't know it.
But I was protecting you as aman of God, even when you were
homeless, HIV, positive,crackhead.
(13:15):
And then when I had this callfrom God, I then stepped into
who I already was, andeverything that was not part of
my calling had to fall off ofme, including HIV.
(13:36):
Um, and so that's how I surviveduh the streets.
God was protecting me because heknew I had a destiny, but I
didn't become, this is crazy.
I didn't become a bishop whenBishop Wellington Boone ordained
me.
I was called to be a bishopbefore the foundation of the
(13:57):
world.
And I just had to step into thereality that God already had for
my life.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
Man, I noticed that that in your resume you have the
word global ministry andfaithful obedience.
Talk a little bit about the thesecond half, as you say.
Well, I know I noticed you didhave a global, uh, what do you
want to call it?
(15:09):
A global crime streak orsomething?
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
No, this is my post-crime criminal career.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
Um but after well, you know, you ain't gonna find
that Apostle Paul was ajailbird.
SPEAKER_00 (15:23):
Yeah, but that's true too.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
For a different reason than you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
But um, yeah, so I I moved back to I moved back to
Jackson in 1993, um, reconciledwith my wife, and uh worked a
secular job as a commercialartist uh for several years
before uh I took my firstmission trip.
(15:51):
Uh uh eventually I was workingat Gateway Rescue Mission.
I was their program manager andeventually their director of
development.
Um, but while I was workingthere, uh I went on my first
mission trip to Malawi, Africawith uh our sister church, which
(16:12):
was uh Trinity PresbyterianChurch when it existed.
And that trip changed my life.
Uh how so?
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
I I hear people saying it often so give us a
unfold that some more for us.
SPEAKER_00 (16:26):
Well, first, you know, when I stepped off the the
airplane and I walked down thisthe gangway, uh the steps, I set
one foot on the tarmac, and Ihad this supernatural
experience, almost likesomething out of a science
fiction movie, that somethingfrom the ground grabbed my leg
(16:51):
and began to move all through mybody.
And I had this overwhelmingsensation that I had come home.
I had felt something that Ididn't even feel at home, and
that was the feeling of beinghome.
(17:13):
Uh, and then it was just a greattrip to Malawi at that time, it
was uh one of the poorestcountries uh in the world,
literally.
Uh most people made less than adollar a day uh when I was uh
going there.
But I became really hooked oncross-cultural missions to the
(17:35):
point I came back and appointedmyself missions pastor.
I didn't ask anybody, I justsaid this is what I would do.
And uh I began to lead teams touh sub-Saharan Africa every
year, uh, particularly pastorswho would uh help me do
(17:58):
leadership training and pastoraltraining.
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Yeah, so um then I was there on a trip in 2003, and
this is amazing.
I heard the Lord as clearly as Idid the day I got saved in that
crack motel.
And what God told me while I wasin Malawi, let me back up a
(18:28):
little bit because it's kind offunny.
So Pastor uh Robert McCullumfrom Priestley Chapel Baptist
Church in Canton, Mississippi,was on this team.
Uh I wasn't, I think I was justa minister, a licensed minister
at the time.
And uh so I'm letting thepastors uh talk to our uh elders
(18:51):
from our host church who we hada partnership with, and I'm just
sitting over in the cornertaking notes on my laptop.
And uh the question came up uhbetween those elders was how
could we serve you in theupcoming year?
And uh the host church said,Well, we've been without a
(19:14):
pastor for two years.
We've had an interim, but we'relooking now for somebody more
permanent.
And they went down this longlist of qualifications, uh,
doctorate, 10 years experience,uh you know, having graduated
from seminary, having pastored across-cultural church and done
(19:36):
cross-cultural mission work inthe past and going on and on.
So when they said that, RobertMcCullum turns around, almost
turns his head all the wayaround.
And if you know Robert McCullum,he's got a great sense of humor,
so he makes a joke.
He said, I thought I know itvery well.
Yeah, he said, Well, well,Henry, why don't you do it?
(20:00):
And everybody started laughing,you know, it was a joke.
But as soon as he finisheduttering the sentence, the Holy
Spirit rushed in that room andturned his joke into a prophecy.
And at that moment, the Lordspoke to me and said, Go home,
(20:23):
give away everything you own,and move you and your wife and
your family to Malawi andminister my word and help my
people.
That was in November, uh, no,October of uh 20 uh 2003.
(20:45):
Uh, we came right back.
I came right back with my wifein December because she had
never been there before.
But let me back up again when Icame home and I said, the Lord's
calling us uh to move to Africa.
Uh she was silent, and I said itagain, and she started laughing.
(21:05):
So I said it again, and she sheuh she then knew I was serious.
And she looked me in the eye andshe started moving that head
back and forth.
She said, I'll see you when youget back.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Had those kind of conversations before.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
But we prayed and and we fasted, and God confirmed
the word.
And within three months, we didexactly what he told us to do,
and I was doing really good bythen.
Had four cars, uh, twobusinesses, both me and my wife
had good jobs.
Uh, we were getting by our dreamhouse, and the Lord said, give
it away.
(21:46):
It was so strong, the voice andthe instruction of the Lord, I
couldn't pray about it.
Because it was nothing to prayabout.
It was the issue, are you goingto be obedient or not?
And I always felt when in thesecallings that if I didn't do
what God told me to do, I wouldput myself in my march of two
(22:26):
thousand and four, we had movedum to Malawi.
And that year, according to theCIA fact book, Malawi was the
poorest country in the world.
And uh I took over a churchplanted by Southern Baptists,
which was still unusual in theheart of the capital of the
(22:49):
city, very influential church.
Uh, and it grew.
We had over 42 nationsrepresented in our congregation.
And uh over seven years we grewfrom 300 to over a thousand
people, and by the time I left,we were having uh five worship
services in three differentlanguages.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Man, that that's an amazing story.
So that was there was noapprehension or or or uh
resistance from the church tosay, you know, they laid aside
their big resume requirementsand things and hired you?
SPEAKER_00 (23:30):
Yeah, there was this one elder, uh Willy Arritt.
He was German, and he just hejust knew very wasn't your
typical German personality.
He was very humble, veryspiritual, uh, really loved the
(23:51):
Lord.
And the Lord must have spoken tohim because he just advocated uh
for me uh as one of the chiefelders to be um the senior
pastor of Capitol City BaptistChurch.
Because, as you just noted, thatlong list of uh requirements
(24:12):
that they had, I could Icouldn't tick one of the boxes.
SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
Well you not one where the safety says name.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, that's that's that's about the only thing I uh
I could fill in.
Everything else was blank.
And uh but uh you know I hadsome great referral letters, you
know, from Bishop Krude, uh fromuh Steve Lanier, uh from
Redeemer, uh, and a couple ofother pastors, and everybody
(24:47):
knew I were I was the person,even though I didn't have the
qualifications, everybody knewit was a call from God.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
Yeah, well when you put Goebbels ministry down
there, I'm talking about it itstands out uh in in terms of
that.
It stands out uh as as itrelates to that.
Now, one time you had anewspaper called proclaim.
How did that come about?
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
That's a that was another great testimony.
How did you name it proclaim?
Well, that was another great uhtestimony.
Um yeah, so uh we were up nearMeridian uh during a pastor's
conference.
Me and Bishop Krudep wereteaching uh at a church, and
something just unusual happened.
(25:36):
This lady walked in boldly, hada camera in her hand, walked
down the middle aisle whilewe're I'm literally teaching.
She takes some photographs, sheturns around, she leaves and
comes back, and she puts some uhnewspapers in the newspaper
stand in the foyer.
(25:57):
Um so I picked one up after uhafter my session, and as soon as
I picked the newspaper up, theLord spoke to me again.
He said, uh, I want you to starta newspaper and name it,
proclaim, but start it when Itell you.
(26:17):
Um so I held that word, andabout a year and a half later,
he said, Okay, it's time.
And he gave me every detailedstrategy of how to produce this
Christian publication and uhthat distributed in central
Mississippi.
(26:37):
And I did exactly what the Lorduh instructed, and we put out
our first issue, and quitehonestly, I made all my initial
investment back in the firstissue with profit, and uh it was
uh it was very successful allthe way up to when I moved to
(26:59):
Malawi, and the Lord told me togive it away.
And uh brother came to me andsaid the Lord spoke to him.
So I literally gave thenewspaper away, but it was uh it
was probably the first blackChristian publication in
Mississippi, and it was verygood.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
Yeah, I know.
I used to subscribe to uh usedto bring us uh the newspaper
around the missionists at theoffice and uh stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
Going back to uh you identifying my global ministry,
so while I was in Malawi, andthis is just still blows my
mind.
I thought I was just going topastor this church and uh be a
good under shepherd uh for theLord, but it turns out he had
much bigger uh ideas in ministryfor me.
(27:54):
Uh so I led a an orphan'sministry of over 600 children.
I had a uh a national uh radioprogram that was heard
throughout the country twice aweek.
Um probably the most powerfulthing was uh uh planted
churches, uh both in Malawi andBurundi, in Pakistan and South
(28:20):
Africa, all as a result of beinga missionary pastor in uh in
Malawi.
Also, uh while in Malawi, uhthere was an executive team from
the Luzon movement that came toour church, and I was preaching
that day, and after service,they said, You're this kind of
(28:44):
person uh that we want to attendLuzon because you you can only
attend the Luzon conferences byinvitation.
Um and not only did they chooseme to go, they gave me a
scholarship, they flew me, putme in a four-star hotel.
Uh, so I was able to participatein the Luzon Congress in Cape
(29:09):
Town in 2010, and then uh I wasuh nominated again, uh just uh I
think it was 2024, uh for theSeoul Korea Luzon uh conference.
Uh because they've only had fourconferences in uh the 50-year
(29:32):
history of the movement, andI've been blessed to be invited
to two of them, which uh onaverage about 5,000 people from
every single country in theworld uh is in attendance.
It's just a great, greatevangelical movement.
Oh I'm telling you all this,it's the boy from the
(29:57):
neighborhood that God set up todo great things around the
world.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
You know, working in global ministry like that and
being a missionary pastor and soforth, but you know, mission
mission is about getting peopleto live out the reconciliation
in in Christ Jesus in a way thatwe cross those demarcations of
race specifically as you know uhethnicities and so forth.
(30:26):
And so uh, how did all that workfor you in terms of that, in
terms of race relations?
Well, these mixed audience andand uh how how did it tell me a
little bit about that, how thatworks out.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
Well, I think uh again, as you know, I I I was on
staff with Promise Keepers foruh I believe three, three years.
Um I think Promise Keepers was arevival.
I think it's probably thegreatest reconciliation movement
uh in America uh to date, uhparticularly among Christians.
(31:05):
And um I really learned a lotabout reconciliation during
those uh three years workingunder Coach uh uh McCartney.
Uh I took those experiences uhto South Africa where I planted
(31:25):
a church called Grace Church.
And I'm when I was pastoring inSouth Africa, it was uh just a
few years post uh apartheid.
Uh and God had called me to be areconciler uh because during the
apartheid era, uh the church wasum uh separated uh into real,
(31:55):
real confined silos.
You had the Dutch Reform, youhad uh Assemblies of God, you
had Baptists, but most of thesedenominations were birthed out
of apartheid, meaning thatwhites and blacks and colors
could not uh worship together.
(32:18):
It was extremely rare and uhperilous, quite honestly.
Uh, so a lot of thesedenominations are a result of uh
of racial segregation, and Godhad called me to preach a
message that would reconcilepeople to each other and to God.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Yeah, you use the word black and colored in the
same sense.
What's the distinction there?
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Well, in South Africa, uh because of the legacy
of apartheid, uh there werethree major races or ethnic
groups.
Uh your white Africanas, yourblack, uh indigenous Africans,
they hate being calledindigenous, so I'm just using
(33:13):
that as uh uh an informationalterm.
And then you had colors uh whowere uh mixed race, and uh
during apartheid, those uh threeethnic groups were totally
separated, uh even though uh theAfricanas made up only thirteen,
(33:39):
fourteen percent of the coun ofthe population, and this is
still crazy.
They had absolute control overthe whole country.
Physically, spiritually,mentally, economically,
geographically, thirteen percentof the population had absolute
(34:05):
control over the othereighty-five, somewhere around
there.
Um and the other uh eighty-fivewere blacks and colors.
Actually, me and you would beconsidered colored because of
our our lighter uh skin tone.
(34:26):
Uh, we would be considered mixedrace.
But under apartheid, we wouldstill uh be segregated and not
have the privileges of the whiteAfricanists.
unknown (34:40):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
You you you thoroughly have uh a great story
and it's worth telling, and andI've learned a lot.
I knew a lot about you.
I knew most of your story.
Uh I remember when you weredoing the uh working with Mitch
Mississippi here in Jackson tobring Promise Keepers here.
(35:02):
We did that twice, and uh um Ithought you were staying with
with both Promise Keepers andMiss Mississippi in terms of
that.
I remember helping raise money.
SPEAKER_00 (35:14):
I love I love Mission Mississippi.
You know, I was at the firstrally at uh Memorial Stadium.
I'll never forget uh TomSkinner's message.
Uh that uh how long ago wasthat?
30, 30 something years ago?
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Yeah, I think this is our 33rd year.
It was in 1993.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah, so I was I've been there from the beginning
and uh always uh admired andloved the ministry of Mission
Mississippi, and certainly itwas needed, it's still needed,
and has made a significantimpact on the history of
Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
Oh, absolutely.
And uh so moving moving towards,you know, you you've given us
the first and second half.
Is it not now?
What do you call the the areayou in now?
What is what did your card face?
Is this a third quarter?
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
I'm headed into the fourth quarter now.
Um I'm I'll be 65 in a fewweeks.
Um I've been a member.
SPEAKER_01 (36:24):
Did you skip the third quarter?
I didn't hear about the secondquarter.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
I'm kind of going in the third.
I'm ending the third quarternow.
Uh actually, the third quarterwas the last five years, which
were probably the toughest of mylife.
Uh the third quarter was tough.
Uh I planted a church calledZion in uh Richland.
(36:51):
Um and I signed the lease andpaid that lease for a whole
year, two weeks before thepandemic.
Um given the landlord tens ofthousands of dollars, thinking,
okay, I have enough money to paythe lease for a year, that'd
give me enough chance to buildthe church and uh and not have
(37:16):
the pressure of having to pay uhthe lease.
Well, again, two weeks beforethe pandemic, and uh we couldn't
get any traction.
I mean, all of our evangelisticplans were scrapped.
We couldn't go door to door.
There were days we couldn't evenhave church.
Uh and I lunched out with onlyfive families.
(37:39):
And um 18 months and$400,000later, I had to close.
Uh and even in that 18 months, Ihad a severe uh uh uh uh vehicle
accident.
I hit a tree at 70 miles anhour.
Still don't know what happened.
Um I got the scar on myforehead, peeled my forehead
(38:04):
back to the skull, had uh twocracked ribs, bleeding on the
brain, uh, and walked out thehospital in three days.
Uh still don't even know how Isurvived.
Uh also had a severe case ofCOVID.
Uh me, my wife, my daughter, mymother-in-law, her son, his
(38:32):
wife, their daughter, all of ushad a severe case of COVID all
at the same time.
And because I had so manyfriends around the world, uh it
was a traumatizing time whensome of my closest friends were
passing away.
Uh then I had to close thechurch.
(38:53):
I was uh broke, I was uhjobless.
And uh yeah, it was that thirdquarter.
That's why I'm maybe that's whyI didn't want to mention it.
It was uh it was uh some toughyears, but I'm telling you,
really tough, but I I I'm gladyou asked me that because uh
(39:15):
even after the accident, um I'vebeen I had to do something that
I've been teaching for years.
Uh as I'm going through allthese different traumas, uh the
Lord said to me, Now you gottado what you've been teaching
(39:39):
others, that in the midst ofyour trials, you still gotta
worship me.
And I did.
Uh when I had uh severe bouts ofgout and had back uh slip discs
in my back, all of this in fiveyears, but I never lost my
(40:00):
praise and I never lost myworship.
And in the midst of pain, itstill felt good to know that God
is still good in the midst oftrials, and that you still can
give him praise and worship atdifficult times in my life.
(40:22):
So now I'm moving into thefourth quarter.
I've been a member of uh NewHorizon Church International for
33 years, walked out at rehab,moved to back to Jackson, and
moved into that church as amember.
Never in my wildest imaginationdid I think I would become a
(40:44):
minister, and certainly apastor, and you couldn't tell me
I was gonna be a bishop, andthen on top of that, that I
would eventually become thesenior pastor of New Horizon.
Only God could do something likethat.
SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
I said only God, but God, man.
And so uh you never dreamt ofthat.
I was just thinking about youryour first two uh sharing with
us about your first two phasesuh of life, halftime and all of
that.
Is that in all of that, I knowthat where you are today was not
(41:22):
an inkling of thought oranything like that.
You know, tell us how that howdid that take place?
How did you get from planning achurch that that you had to
close, going back to Africa, andthen coming back?
We missed something in there.
Fill in a little bit of that forus.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Oh man, uh, first of all, in the midst of all of
this, and I I wrote a letter tothe elders in Bishop Crudep
eight years ago.
And in that letter, I statedthat I felt the Lord was calling
me to be uh the next pastor ofNew Horizon when Bishop Crudep
(42:07):
uh would move to something else.
Um and in that letter I said I'mgonna state this one time, but
I'm never gonna bring it upagain.
But I just need to let you knowthat this is what I feel the
Lord is is leading me to say.
So I wrote that letter, stillhave that letter eight years
(42:27):
later, but I carried that word,the word that I was going to be
pastor uh of New Horizon oneday.
Uh me and my wife carried thatword in simple obedience.
Uh we didn't lobby people, wedidn't go around saying, oh, I'm
gonna be pastor one day.
(42:48):
Uh we just kept it close to ourhearts.
And uh even when the Lord led usto move back to Africa about
three years ago, uh, I was stilluh questioning, you know, the
word the Lord gave me.
Uh and when I last thing I saidto Bishop Crudup, I said, uh, he
(43:10):
told me that he had chosensomeone else.
And I said, Well, you know, I'malways gonna be here for you.
And probably one of the mostsincerest, sincerest looks and
responses I've ever gotten fromBishop Crudep.
He looked me in the eye and hesaid, I know Henry.
I know.
(43:30):
And uh, when it didn't work outand uh in in in uh Malawi, I
moved back to uh uh be thecampus director for African
Bible College in Le Longwe.
Um huge responsibility.
I was supervising 400 employeesin this ministry.
(43:51):
Uh thinking I'm gonna live inMalawi the whole rest of my
life, even though I still gotthis word that I'm gonna be
senior pastor.
Well, God worked it where I onlystayed four and a half months,
uh, where something happenedthat was quite honestly very
devastating to us, uh, me and mywife, because we thought we were
(44:13):
coming out of this, you know,five-year trials, and uh by
moving back to Africa, andinstead of that being true, we
were uh quite honestly, uhsomebody hijacked my character,
uh lied on me uh to the board ofdirectors, and they didn't renew
(44:33):
my contract.
And how it happened wasdevastating.
Uh devastating.
But we came back uh to toJackson.
Uh the Lord told me to just waiton him and said very clearly,
don't go get a job at Walmart.
(44:54):
I know it's tough, but trust me,you've trusted me before, and I
did.
And with one foot off the cliff,he grabbed me again and saved me
at the last moment.
And um some of this I had totell you in private, but um the
(45:16):
day or the week before BishopKrudep is sending out a letter
announcing uh his choice for hissuccessor, something happens
where uh he changes his mind.
And uh God changed his mind.
He changed his mind, and Ibecame the candidate, and uh
(45:41):
even then I had to wait a yearand a half uh before I took
over, but I then I was patient.
And uh sure enough, the word theLord had given me eight years
ago that I would be seniorpastor has come to pass, and and
church is doing great.
We're researching, uh stillcommitted to South Jackson.
(46:04):
We're probably the biggestchurch in South Jackson right
now.
Um and uh things are goingextremely well.
SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, uh with a MissionMississippi host, we're gonna
ask this word about uhmulti-part and multiracial
congregations and things likethat.
And so how how are you moving ittoward that area?
Uh what's your vision or yourpassion for us?
SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
Well, we've always wanted to be.
Uh we weren't as intentional aswe could, but I see something
happening that we're trying toseize the opportunity, and uh I
hope nobody gets offended, butwe've had several uh uh
Cartesian uh people that havestarted coming to New Horizon,
(46:58):
and their reasoning is that theydon't feel like they're getting
fed at uh their traditionalchurches.
Um for some reason they like mypreaching that yes.
SPEAKER_01 (47:14):
Well, I understand I I've I've heard you on many
occasions and experience thepower of God through you.
So I I understand and appreciatetheir acclamation towards you in
in terms of the church and whatit's doing, but you you're you
you God is doing it, as youknow.
Um I I think we need to probablyput a bow on this.
(47:35):
It's been great visiting withyou and uh hearing your story.
It's it's amazing.
Um so you got uh a few minuteshere that you can say to the
audience.
Uh uh, what would you like tosay?
What would you like them toremember beyond all the
miracles, wonders, and signs Godhas done in your life thus far?
(47:57):
What would you like to uh say tothem as it relates to trusting
God and being faithful?
SPEAKER_00 (48:03):
That's easy for me.
Um you know, when I became apastor, uh when you enter that
office, you immediately feel uha sense of power and influence.
And you immediately know I canuse this influence for my
(48:26):
personal gain if if I reallywanted to.
But God never gave me that kindof personality or character.
What he has given me, and uh Ifeel this is a true grace from
God.
I still see the gospel of ChristJesus clearly, and I say that
(48:51):
very intentionally because as Itravel around the world, I meet
different pastors.
There are a lot of ministriesthat they're not preaching Jesus
anymore.
They don't see Jesus as clearlyas they should.
I've been blessed with a gracethat I still see the gospel as
(49:13):
preeminent and clear.
Uh but with that grace comes aweight of responsibility, and
that is I have to proclaim it.
If I still see it clearly, I'mnot uh contaminated with any
other ambitions.
(49:33):
I gotta preach that gospel, andI want to encourage the
listeners to do the same.
If you still see Jesus clearly,that is a grace from God, but it
comes with a weight ofresponsibility.
You gotta preach that gospel.
Whether you're a layperson, adeacon, a minister, a pastor, a
(49:55):
bishop, if you still see Jesus,preach Jesus and his
preeminence, his redemption, andhis return for his church.
So thank you for allowing me tobe with you this morning,
Nettie.
(50:16):
I pray that my testimony and mywords have been a blessing uh to
the listeners, and I've beengreatly honored to spend time
with you this morning.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
Same here.
We appreciate you being herewith us, and uh there's so much
more for you to tell us.
And and, you know, I don't know,uh I'm not the the chief head
honcho here, but Brian Crawfordis, and I'm sure that we will
get another opportunity to sharethis time with you.
Uh, thank you for uh sharingwith us and being transparent in
(50:46):
your in your sharing with us.
Um I'm I'm just so um elated tohave listened more deeply this
time than I have in the past.
And uh we thank you for yourwords, thank you for your
encouragement, and thank you forbeing a partner.
New Horizon International hasbeen a partner with Miss
Mississippi from the verybeginning, continue to do that
today.
So we're excited about that.
Bishop served on the originalboard.
(51:07):
Uh Bishop Kruger did.
And uh, as you were part of thatchurch, you uh join in with us,
bringing Promise Keepers toMississippi a couple of times.
And so we're excited about allof those things that uh we
parted together with.
Join us uh uh on any podcastnetwork found uh platform you
can find Living Reconcile andjoin us there.
(51:30):
Uh God bless and God keep you.
Thank you so much, Mitchell.
SPEAKER_00 (51:35):
You're welcome.
God bless you.
Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02 (51:38):
Thanks for joining Living Reconciled.
If you would like moreinformation on how you can be a
part of the ongoing work ofhelping Christians learn how to
live in the reconciliation thatJesus has already secured,
please visit us online atmissionistissippi.org or call us
at 601-353-6477.
Thanks again for listening.
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