October 17, 2025 • 41 mins
In this powerful episode, we sit down with Tabitha Yates, a survivor whose journey through trauma, mental illness, and faith has shaped a calling to speak truth and bring hope to others. Tabitha grew up in a home marked by abuse, carrying the weight of depression, anxiety, PTSD, self-harm, and even a suicide attempt into adulthood. For years, she believed her struggles were signs of weak faith—a message reinforced by the church that left her feeling abandoned in her darkest season.
But Tabitha’s story didn’t end there. Through therapy and a renewed relationship with Jesus, she discovered that mental illness is not a spiritual failure, but part of the healing journey God can redeem. Today, she shares openly about breaking stigma, confronting trauma, and finding freedom in both faith and professional help.
Join us as Tabitha unpacks her journey and the message behind her book Jesus and Therapy—an honest invitation to anyone wrestling with their faith and mental health to know they are not alone, healing is possible, and Jesus walks with us every step of the way.
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Ways to connect with Tabitha:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Israel Caminero (00:04):
Thank you so much for tuning in to today's
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(00:27):
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(00:48):
Thanks again for listening, andI'll catch you in the next
episode.
Welcome to Living TestimonyStories of Faith and Redemption.
(01:13):
I'm your host, Israel Caminero,and I hope that everyone that's
listening today is blessed anddoing well.
With me today, I have my sisterin Christ.
Her name is Tabitha Yates.
Can you say a little bit aboutyourself, Tabitha, to everyone?
Tabitha Yates (01:28):
My name is Tabitha.
I live in Southern Arizona.
I am the author of Jesus andTherapy, Bridging the Gap
Between Faith and Mental Health.
I'm a writer and an editor anda mental health advocate.
I have three kiddos that Ihomeschool all of them here in
Arizona, and I deeply wish Ilived somewhere without
rattlesnakes and cactus.
Israel Caminero (01:50):
Homeschooling.
My wife just startedhomeschooling our two kids this
year for the first time.
Well, not for the first time,but they were going to school
and they decided they wanted toget homeschooled, so we'll see
how that venture goes.
Tabitha Yates (02:03):
It is an adventure for sure.
Israel Caminero (02:06):
Indeed.
I'm glad I'll be at work whileshe's doing that.
Um so she's here to share hertestimony, as always, and before
she does it, I'd like to justpray over us and say, Father
God, we come before you todaywith grateful hearts.
Thank you for giving us thisplatform where testimonies of
your goodness and healing can beshared.
(02:26):
Lord, we ask that you blessthis conversation, that every
word spoken would point back toyou.
May this testimony bringcomfort to the hurting, strength
to the weary, and hope to thosewho feel alone.
Holy Spirit lead us and leteverything said today glorify
the name of Jesus.
Amen.
So Tabitha, thank you for beinghere again.
(02:48):
I know your story willencourage many who are
listening.
Let's start with your journeyand what brought you to where
you are today.
Can you share a little aboutyour background and challenges
you faced growing up?
Tabitha Yates (03:00):
Yes, absolutely.
So I was raised in ahalf-Christian home.
Um, my mother was a believer,my father was not.
So I was led to Christ when Iwas three years old, but it
definitely did not uh save mefrom a life of trauma,
unfortunately.
My dad was very physically,emotionally, mentally, verbally
(03:23):
abusive.
Um, so by the time I was, youknow, not even six months old,
I'd be I had been beaten tounconsciousness.
I was regularly, you know,being wounded.
And it was a very rocky startto where I really don't even
remember.
There's not a time I can lookback and remember in my
childhood that was not verydifficult.
(03:45):
And so my parents um ended upgetting a divorce when I was
seven.
We moved around a lot in themilitary, and so by that point I
was already suffering from, youknow, the beginning stages of a
lot of mental health issuesjust because of, again, you
know, such complex trauma goingon continually.
Um, when my dad left, my momdecided to kind of immerse us in
(04:10):
a really uh legalistic,unhealthy church and let all
those men kind of take the spotof my dad.
So I ended up being abused bymy pastor, my elder, by visiting
men in the church, and justsuffering from a lot of
spiritual and church abuse aswell.
And so I was just kind ofimmersed in this um Christian
(04:32):
background, but really with aJesus that was being shown to me
that was not at all who Jesusreally is.
Israel Caminero (04:41):
Wow.
So you said you were gettingabused by the pastor and other
men in the church?
Tabitha Yates (04:50):
Yeah, there was um some really severe verbal
abuse going on and a lot ofspiritual abuse, a lot of
gaslighting, um, a lot of um,it's just a very, very unhealthy
environment um where women andchildren were incredibly
devalued.
And um when I started reallyfalling into a depression, and I
(05:14):
came to church leaders and andtold them, um, I was told
everything from, you know, it'smy sin.
Again, I'm just a little child.
God's um given up on me, he'swashing his hands of me.
I'm beyond reaching and notworth saving.
If I prayed more, I wouldn'thave these problems.
If I attempted suicide, I'd goto hell.
(05:36):
And just it was a very, verydark place and no real support
there, and no realrepresentation of you know God's
true heart towards me.
It was just, you know, therewas something really wrong with
me, and it was all me, and noneof the abuse I was experiencing
was recognized as the source ofobviously my budding depression.
(05:58):
Um, and so it was just reallyjust a very toxic environment
where there was no awareness ofof their actions, of you know,
the actions of my parents andwhat that was doing to my mental
health at that young age, andit was just um really, really
just an unhealthy place to growup.
Israel Caminero (06:17):
Sure sounds like it.
I wouldn't want to be going tothat church, I'll tell you that
right now.
Tabitha Yates (06:23):
No.
Israel Caminero (06:23):
Um considering what you said, how did those
struggles affect your faith andthe way you saw God at that
time?
Tabitha Yates (06:31):
Well, that is the hardest part because when it
is, you know, foundationalpeople in your life as a child,
when it's your parents, whenit's church leadership, what you
just assume that their word isGod's truth, you know, and you
don't question it.
And so those very that verymuch became my beliefs about God
and about myself.
(06:52):
I just formed these corebeliefs.
Um I'm too much for God, Hedoesn't love me, there's not
enough grace for me, I've gonetoo far, He wants to wash His
hands of me.
Um, I I'm too messed up to evercome to Jesus.
So, like everything that myhome life taught me, you know,
my the church kind ofreinforced, and so I already
(07:15):
felt like absolutely unable tocome to Jesus, probably by the
time I was 10, 12 years old.
Just I it that was notavailable to me because I was so
horrible in my mind.
Israel Caminero (07:29):
So, what was the turning point when you began
to experience healing, youknow, as far as knowing that
that wasn't true discipleship oranything like that from the
church?
Tabitha Yates (07:41):
Um, that took it took a it getting a lot, lot
worse.
Um, I got to the point when Iwas 14 and I was severely
suicidal.
And directly following a churchservice, I attempted suicide
when I was um 15 years old.
I overdosed and blacked out.
Um, but I woke up the next dayand it, you know, continued with
(08:05):
self-harm, eventuallyculminating in me being locked
in a psych ward when I was just16 years old.
And that was just an absoluterock bottom for me.
But unfortunately, when you area minor and you don't have
autonomy, you can recognize thetoxicity in the situation and
you can't necessarily alwaysescape it.
(08:26):
So I was being forced to attendthat church, even though I knew
it was killing me anddestroying any hope of me having
a healthy relationship withJesus.
And I knew it wasn't anaccurate represent
representation of who God wasand what his heart was to me.
But by that point, when I wasabout 16 years old, I just
completely left the faith.
I refused to go to that churchanymore.
(08:48):
I said, I will go to adifferent church as long as I'm
under your roof, but it's notgoing to be this one anymore.
And so I, but really, I justcompletely detached because I
could see no healthy pathforward.
I could, I could see no waythat I could be a Christian.
It just seemed incompatiblewith who I was and who they were
telling me I was.
And so it took it getting so,so, so much darker.
(09:09):
And I remember when I finallygot out of a psychiatric
hospital driving home and justattempting to form a prayer
because I've been refusing totalk to God for quite a while
and just like, God, I'm gonnatry one more time.
And if you can do what you doand show me who you really are,
I'm gonna give you a chance.
(09:30):
And it was crazy because I wascoming up over a hill when I was
praying, and I came back downthe hill, and there was a huge
rainbow.
And it was like I was literallytelling God, I'm making you no
promises, um, but he was makingme one that he was gonna show up
and he was gonna be faithful.
And it ended up then justbecoming this lifelong journey
(09:50):
of healing, of unraveling, ofrecovering from church hurt, of
a lot of counseling.
That's why my book is uses intherapy, and so much of what I
talk about is those two thingsworking together for the most
comprehensive healing because Icouldn't do one without the
other.
There was so much brokennessand trauma, and um, I had to
(10:11):
address it and I had to workreally hard to get to the root
of all those things and replaceall those beliefs that had been
formed about myself, the worldaround me, who God was, who I
was, and I couldn't have arelationship with Jesus until I
found out who he really was andhow he really loved me and to
where I walked through so muchof that.
(10:31):
So it's really from that on,that was like kind of the point
that propelled me when I um gotout of the psychiatric hospital.
But then it was also motherhoodthat really solidified like,
man, this is a lifelong journey.
Because when I had my kids, youknow, of course, it brings out
a whole new side of you, and somany triggers and things that I
(10:52):
saw still came up, and and I waslike, I'm I'm not gonna pass
this on to my kids.
I'm gonna make sure that theyhave the most health, healthy,
and whole parent that they canpossibly have.
So that sent me to even deeperhealing and even more intensive
therapy that I could just walkthrough as much trauma as I
needed to, so that I could be aspresent and whole for them as
(11:14):
possible.
And so it's really not a shortjourney.
It's been a long, lifelongthing of because again, it's
your core beliefs, it'severything you built your life
on and your beliefs abouteverything around you.
And I had to just strip thatback down to nothing and let God
slowly whisper the truth to meand reveal it to me and be
faithful to keep on showing itto me until I finally believed
(11:37):
it.
And so God has just been sofaithful to walk with me through
this kind of journey ofbrokenness to discovery of his
heart for me and others, andthat's just my passion now, you
know, to help other people walkthrough that brokenness and walk
through their mental healthstruggles and find out, you
know, that maybe God isn't whoyou thought he was and who other
(11:58):
people and Christiansrepresented him to you as.
Israel Caminero (12:02):
That's true.
I heard you mention that for along time you believed mental
health struggles meant meantweak faith.
What shifted in you when yourealized that that wasn't true?
Tabitha Yates (12:17):
That was just that was what I was always told.
That was the misconception, andreally is still, I think, one
of the primary misconceptionsthat people have regarding
believers who struggle withtheir mental health.
But um, that that was one ofthe things that was really
drilled in me that it wassomehow a reflection of my
belief in God.
(12:37):
Like if I believed more, if Iprayed more, if I trusted more,
I wouldn't have these problems.
And it's just simply not truebecause we live in a broken
world and people have free will.
And those people with free willwere inflicting very
significant harm on my being inevery possible way.
And so the brain is a part ofthe body and it can have
(12:58):
inherent brokenness as well.
But trauma creates brokennessthat that not that God would
ever want that for you, but it'sa reality of living in this
world that we have to walkthrough.
And I was able to get to apoint where I realized how
deeply my church wasspiritualizing mental health
issues that made perfect sensegiven, you know, the fact that
(13:21):
I'm being beaten tounconsciousness and attempting
suicide and struggling with allthese things, and no adults were
helping me, and I wasn'tallowed to go to therapy.
Um, and my church, it was avery illegitimate thing.
They they had no awareness ofanything with mental health,
they didn't recognize it.
It was all faith to them, itwas all lack of faith.
And so that was so much of whatI had to unravel and realize
(13:45):
that it's not a moral flaw, thatI wasn't in sin, that I wasn't
doing something wrong because Iwas struggling with depression
and anxiety and suicidality.
I was a child who was beingdeeply abused and not getting
the help I needed to walkthrough that.
So of course I had issues.
Israel Caminero (14:02):
Wow.
It's hard to believe that achurch would just say that it
was lack of faith.
You know, instead of trying toshepherd and help you while
you're going through things likethis.
So I mean, obviously, you'regood with the church now, right?
Tabitha Yates (14:18):
Yeah, I took it took a lot of of healing and
recovering, but I am an activechurch member now, and um I love
the church, and that's why I'mwilling to talk about the things
we're missing the mark on, sothat we can do better, so that
we can love people better, sothat we can, you know, um help
and not harm people.
Israel Caminero (14:38):
So is this the same church or a different
church?
Tabitha Yates (14:41):
Oh no, yes, no, it's many churches later.
We're a military family, so I Imoved quite a bit.
So this was kind of mychildhood church, and so I'm
very far removed from it now.
Israel Caminero (14:51):
Okay, just making that clear.
So, okay, so how did how didyour experience with the church,
both the hurt and obviously theeventual healing, shape your
understanding of God's love foryou?
Tabitha Yates (15:07):
Hmm.
I think it shaped it in anegative way, so that I had to
then really go through a processof separating Christ from
Christianity and really namingthe hurt, who inflicted hurt on
me, how they did it, and really,you know, identifying each
(15:30):
situation where woundingoccurred, so then I could look
at that situation and be like,where was God in that?
Was that his heart?
Is this what the Bible says Godsays about me?
And I was able to break everysituation down and see how God
was not in that interactionwhatsoever.
He would that was not hisheart, that was not biblical,
what they were telling me wasfalse, and I was able to then
(15:51):
separate him so I couldappropriately assign the blame
and the hurt to the rightpeople, so then I could walk
through that process rather thanbecause as a child that was all
just reflected on God.
That that became my belief ofwho Jesus was because that's
what they're telling me hethought.
And so it the biggest part umof recovering from church hurt
(16:14):
for me was really identifyingwhat was people and what was
God, and who do I need to beforgiving and walking through
this process of healing with.
And it came down when it wasall stripped to bare bones.
Like I don't know who Jesus isat all because everything that
has been shown of him to me isfalse.
(16:35):
And so I had to do such a deepdive into the word of God and
the character of God, just to belike, okay, this is how, and
you know, that's why in my bookI have a whole chapter about all
the people in the Bible thatkind of wrestled with, you know,
emotional problems and mentalhealth problems, because I
wanted to look at what was God'sresponse to every single one of
these people.
Did he respond with anger?
(16:57):
Did he respond with impatience,or did he respond with kindness
and grace and compassion?
And so slowly looking at howGod treated other people like me
and people that were hurtingand seeing how kind he was, that
was the only thing that drew meback when I finally saw that
everything I believed about himwas false and that I was willing
(17:19):
to let the word of God and thetruth of who he was rebuild my
and reshape my view of God andthen the church subsequently
after that.
Israel Caminero (17:28):
That's good.
You know, sometimes people doget hurt and wounded by the
church, but they fail to realizethat the people that go to the
church aren't God and they'rethe ones doing the hurting, you
know.
Tabitha Yates (17:43):
Right.
And I do think there's a verylegitimate process, you know,
that people need to walk throughbecause I never want to bypass
that wounding with someone.
And I I talked to a lot ofpeople about church hurt.
I just did an interviewyesterday that was solely about
church hurt, because it is avery legitimate thing, and I
don't think you can forceyourself past it.
Like if you don't truly walkthrough all the steps to heal,
(18:06):
every church you walk in after,you're gonna immediately be
seeing everything through thatlens and looking for the hurt
and looking for the offense.
And again, it's a room full ofimperfect people, so you're
gonna find it really quickly ifthat's what you're going and
looking for.
And if you're going in lookingfor Jesus and looking for, okay,
yes, what is the fruit in thesepeople and using discernment?
Is this a healthy body?
(18:27):
Um, that's absolutelyimportant.
But if you haven't walkedthrough that, that anger and
bitterness, like that's that'sstill most of what you're gonna
see.
And so I was able to trustafter I'd walked through so much
healing and forgiveness andnaming the abuse and naming the
pain and then processing throughit, I was able to trust that I
(18:48):
now know who God is.
So I'm not gonna walk into anychurch and not get a red flag if
what they are presenting ofJesus is not the Jesus I know
from the Bible and in my heart.
And I now know who I am, whoGod says I am.
So I'm not gonna walk into abuilding now and be told things
and be prophesied things over methat are not God's heart for me
and I know are not biblical.
(19:09):
So I had to get much strongerin my faith and in my beliefs
before I trusted that I'm notgonna be in this situation again
because I have a discernmentnow where I know if I walk into
a building and a body ofbelievers that is not healthy,
like I will see it and I willtrust that discernment in me
(19:30):
now.
Israel Caminero (19:30):
That's good, Tabitha.
You also mentioned earlier thatprofessional help helped you in
your journey.
So what I want to know is howdid the professional help
alongside with your relationshipwith Jesus you know, can you
(19:51):
share how those two worktogether to bring you freedom?
Tabitha Yates (19:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, since I grew up in achurch that was Was this was not
allowed, you know.
Again, it's it it took megetting to the point where I had
attempted suicide before I wasfinally allowed to see a
counselor.
Um, I very much, you know, wasraised with the mentality of
this is not necessary, this isgoing to a source outside of
(20:15):
Jesus, you don't need this, allyou need is Jesus.
And then there's the other sidewhere, you know, so there's a
side where peopleover-spiritualize it to such an
extent that you don't havebrokenness and real issues and
trauma that you have to workthrough.
But then simultaneously,there's people that immerse
themselves in every self-help,every, you know, meditative,
(20:38):
every everything you couldpossibly do on the world side of
treating mental health, andit's not enough.
Because if you don't haveJesus, you truly won't
experience wholeness.
You won't be walking in thepurpose and what you were made
for, and it will never beenough.
And so for me, I had to realizethat those two are not
(20:58):
opposing, that they can go handin hand, that God has equipped
so many helpers and people thatthat are biblically sound, but
they also understandneuroscience and they understand
mental health conditions andthey and they understand trauma
care and that matters.
When you've been deeply woundedand traumatized, you need to
(21:21):
process and face those things.
Your body remembers, your brainremembers, it just lives inside
of you until you face it.
And so for me, finallyrealizing that those things
could come together in amarriage where where I didn't
have to have one or the other, Ididn't have to walk through
this alone.
All the painful healing andunraveling I had to do, God was
gonna be there with me, in itwith me.
(21:43):
He cared intimately about mypain, but it still took action
steps, it still took things thatI had to do to face things, to
feel things, to release things,to forgive things.
And it it took both of thosethings.
It again, so much complextrauma.
I had been in therapy from thetime I was 15, and I go still
(22:04):
now because there's so muchvalue in me being able to have a
sounding board and me alwayshaving accountability.
And anytime I feel somethingcoming up, again, now that I'm a
parent, I take triggers reallyseriously.
I do have PTSD from all theabuse I experienced as a child.
So when I recognize thatsomething's coming up in me and
an intense reaction is coming upin me, and it's spilling out
(22:26):
over to my kids, that's my hardline where I'm like, nope, like
time to go back and time to talkthis out until I can have this
not touch my children and not besomething that I pass on to
them and make their issue.
So it is very much somethingthat I have done hand in hand.
I couldn't have healed and hadthe strength to keep facing it
(22:48):
without my faith being myanchor, but I also could not
have healed without having theguidance from trusted counselors
and professionals and friendsthat poured into my life and
helped me understand the traumathat I went through and the
depression and the anxiety andthe sources of it, and to walk
(23:08):
through those so that they nolonger controlled my life.
Israel Caminero (23:12):
So you mentioned that you still have
triggers, correct?
Well, I mean, obviouslyeveryone still has triggers.
So how are you today as far asyour faith is is good?
I can tell your faith is good.
How is everything going todayfor Tabitha and in your
household?
Tabitha Yates (23:30):
You know, I am so open about this because I still
have panic attacks.
I love to I love to start offwhen I'm having conversation
with people of me beingvulnerable first.
And niece, I I always believedthe lie that I wouldn't have a
testimony until I'd come throughthe test.
And in my mind, that meant Ihad conquered everything.
(23:52):
I'd worked through everything.
I this that never, you know,rears this ugly head again.
And that's just simply nottrue.
I have experienced so muchhardship even through the
process of writing this book.
There was um opposition frompeople close to me that didn't
want me to share the truthbecause anytime you bring abuse
and hard things into the light,you know, the people who
benefited from you being silentare not going to be happy about
(24:13):
that.
So I've had to walk through athird, fourth, fifth healing
process, you know, writing thebook in the seven months since
it's been out from the thingsthat I've faced.
I very much still have to fightwith anxiety.
And it's amazing to me becausemy faith is unshakable.
Like you could not tell me nowthat I don't pray enough and
(24:35):
that I don't trust God because Ihave anxiety, because I know
how hard I cling to Him.
But I also recognize just asthe aftermath of everything I
have experienced in this life,that I'm gonna have some
physical symptoms that I stillhave to face.
And it's not, you know, it'snot God failing me that I don't
have this absolute completedeliverance and I've never had
(24:56):
another panic attack again.
It is just the naturalconsequence of some of you know
the very hard things that I havebeen and sometimes still
experienced.
But I feel like God has givenme so much clarity, so much
peace, so much, you know, I I'vebeen able to walk through most
of my depression because Ibelieve it was so circumstantial
(25:18):
from being trapped in, youknow, some really dark things
for a really long time.
You know, but I am honest withpeople, like, yeah, I still have
I had a panic attack last week.
Like I still face these thingsand I still face the reality of
living in a broken world with abrain that was severely damaged
as a child through all of myabuse, and it still hurts and
(25:39):
things are still hard.
But I have been able to letallow God to move in me and
through me in a way that I stillcan pass on the lessons I've
learned through all of thesestruggles I've been through, and
I can still do good for himbecause he's good and he is
faithful to use even the mostbroken, flawed people.
And so I feel like I'm in aplace where I have a lot of
(26:02):
hope.
I'm in a place where I have somuch peace.
I'm an I'm I love my kids.
I'm so proud of the parent Ibecame, even though I had no
example in front of me of how todo that and how to be a healthy
parent.
I'm so proud that my all mykids love the Lord and have have
him in their hearts, and thatI've been able to carve out a
(26:25):
completely different path.
And I've been able to breakreally generational things.
And so overall, I'm reallyproud and I'm really thankful,
and I really just have anoverwhelming amount of peace for
where God has me right now.
Israel Caminero (26:42):
Yeah, it sounds like you have God as your first
foundation, which is alwaysgood.
Yeah, so you've mentioned yourbook and it's Jesus in therapy,
right?
Yep.
You've mentioned it a fewtimes, and can you reflect on
what you hope readers take awayfrom your book?
Tabitha Yates (27:04):
You know, one of the very first things that I
wanted to do is I wanted to saywhat I would have said to me as
a kid.
All the things that I needed aChristian to say to me, that I
needed a leader to say to me.
I wanted to be the person to bethat balm for wounded souls.
And that's the first andforemost thing that I wanted
(27:25):
this book to be, that someonejust felt seen and known and
loved by God after they read it,that they just felt like they
had received a big hug and hadbeen so validated in everything
that they had been through.
And I talked to hundreds andhundreds of people that have
experienced so much wounding atthe hands of the church, um,
(27:46):
mostly because of their mentalhealth issues not being
understood properly.
And so I really wanted topresent a biblical and accurate
understanding of mental health.
I wanted to build a morecompassionate church.
I wanted us to understand howto love and show up for people
who are struggling.
I, you know, specificallyaddress, you know, pastors and
(28:08):
church leadership in the book,but also people who have loved
ones that are struggling, andthen just the people themselves
that have been wounded and thatare just barely hang hanging on
to their faith, maybe becauseyou've been so beat down and you
just don't see how the two cango together and how you can keep
on struggling the way you'vebeen struggling, but still have
this faith.
And so I really just wanted tospeak so much truth and hope and
(28:32):
healing.
And I always joke that thereare no ABCs after my name.
I don't have a professionallicensing, but I think the lived
experience breathes a lot ofhope into people to see people
who have been in such a darkplace that they hated life and
never wanted to wake up the nextmorning, and how God can bring
that full circle to where theyare now speaking that life into
(28:55):
so many other people.
And that's really what God didfor me and what I knew He tasked
me to do in this book is tojust be a living beacon of hope
for people that it can getbetter.
Healing is hard, but it's worthit, and God will be faithful to
walk you through the process ifyou keep on going and don't
quit.
And when we are faithless, heis faithful.
(29:17):
And so I really just wantedsomeone to walk away feeling
seen and feeling understood.
Israel Caminero (29:24):
Amen.
Amen.
And I'll have links to thatbook on the description of this
podcast and anything else thatshe might want to share if
anyone's interested to go andget the book and read it.
I like to support everyonethat's on here.
We're almost coming to a close,Tabitha, but I have a few more
questions.
And I'll start with, you know,for someone listening right now
(29:46):
who feels caught between theirfaith and their mental health,
what encouragement would youwant to speak into their life
today?
Tabitha Yates (29:54):
Just know that God is for you and not against
you, that your mental health isnot a punishment from him, that
he is present in your pain, andsometimes in those times where
he seems the most distant iswhen he is doing the most work.
And that there's nothing to beashamed of of bringing in help.
(30:16):
There are multiple verses inthe Bible that discuss the
benefits of wise counsel, and itis not contrary to your faith
to receive counsel.
So know that you can hold on toJesus and still take the steps
you need to to heal and addressthe hardships and trauma you've
been through and take care ofyour mental health.
(30:37):
Jesus had an absolutely wholehealth approach, and he takes
care of us mind, body, soul,spirit.
So I just want people to knowthat it is okay to go and find
help, and you are not betrayingyour faith by doing so.
Israel Caminero (30:52):
That's right.
That's right.
God works through people, youknow.
So I know people that won't goto doctors or anything like that
because they're like, no, God'sgonna heal me, which which it's
true.
It's good to have faith likethat, but God also works through
professional help through themto help you too.
Tabitha Yates (31:13):
Right.
And it's just that classicclassic story of, you know, the
man waiting for the for the boator waiting for rescue when
there's a flood and he gets toheaven and God sent him every
practical means to save him.
He's like, God, why didn't yousave me?
And there are people that Godhas put around us when the flood
is rising, and we are allowedto call on those people, you
(31:34):
know, and and it's I say thesame thing about physical
health, you know.
If you're in the middle ofhaving a heart attack, you're
gonna be praying.
Absolutely.
But are you gonna not also call911?
Like you're gonna take theaction step in the practical
sense that you need to do totake care of your immediate
health issue, and it's nodifferent, and it shouldn't be
any different.
Israel Caminero (31:55):
That's right.
That's absolutely right.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause I I I have friends that
are like that that won't go tothe hospital or anything like
that, but like I said, you know,God works through people to
help you.
Yep.
So you've gone through a lot ofhardships and you're you're no
(32:20):
longer going through thosehardships right now or anything
like that, praise God.
I want to know, was there alife verse that you have,
whether you were growing up orthat you have to to this date,
that when you're having a badday, you can always go back to
and read and what that lifeverse is and what it means to
(32:41):
you?
Tabitha Yates (32:43):
I kind of have one that's been an anchor, it's
a bit paraphrased, and then Ihave one now, and one of the
ones that's carried me throughand really speaks to what my
faith is is in Daniel, where itit's you know, yes, God can save
us, but it was Shadarch,Meshach, and Abend ago, but if
not, he is still good.
(33:04):
And just that idea that God hasnot taken me out of some really
hard things.
And for me to be able todeclare the goodness of God
after all the trauma I've beenthrough, that is the level of
faith and trust, the journey hetook me on, to where even if to
(33:27):
the natural eyes something isnot good and it is not seeming
to turn out in my favor, that Ican still say, God, I know even
if you do not save me from thisspecific situation or this
specific pain, you're still goodand you're still with me.
And the verse that I love rightnow, so you know, so much
because I feel like it's verymuch the way God is using me is
(33:49):
2 Corinthians 1, 4.
And that's just that the fatherof compassion, God of all
comfort, comforts us in all ourtroubles so that we can be a
comfort to any trouble and thatwe can give that comfort to
others.
And I wouldn't have the empathyand the compassion and any
(34:10):
wisdom if I hadn't walkedthrough all this pain myself.
And so the it's really thatthat vision of God brought me
through the fire, and now he'ssending me back with buckets of
water for for other people, andthat that I'm able to take the
ways I've I've been comforted byhim, and now I'm able to pass
(34:32):
that on to other people and belike, no, this is how really how
much God loves you.
This is really what his heartis towards you and what he
thinks about you, and I'm ableto now pour that out onto others
because God has been sogracious to give me that comfort
throughout all the hardships inmy life, and so that's a verse
that I'm really living in rightnow.
Israel Caminero (34:51):
Amen, amen.
And the first one was uh, Ibelieve it was Daniel 316, I
believe.
Yes, yeah, so we're there inthe fire, correct?
Yes, all right.
Yeah, definitely God coulddefinitely save us.
All we have to do is surrender.
And God'll be right there.
(35:12):
God's always there.
It's just sometimes we're hardheaded and don't want to seek
him.
Tabitha Yates (35:20):
And just the idea that he's presence and it's
it's it's that level ofsurrender in our hearts that I
know you can, but even if youdon't, I'm still gonna praise
you and you're still good.
And it's not you know blaminghim for being in the fire, it's
choosing to surrender to thatprocess of refinement and trials
and whatever it is that you'rewishing God would take you out
(35:42):
of, and maybe he's not.
Israel Caminero (35:44):
Right, that's right, because we're impatient,
that's what it is.
God does everything in histiming, not ours.
Tabitha Yates (35:51):
Yep.
Israel Caminero (35:52):
So sometimes people don't realize it.
Sometimes it it happened andthey're like, wow, it took that
long, but hey, it happens.
Tabitha Yates (36:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
Israel Caminero (36:03):
But now I'm going to my back to the past
section of the podcast.
And what my back to the pastsection is, you touched on it
earlier.
If you can go back and talk tothe younger Tabitha, what would
you say to her that you didn'tknow then?
This is something that you saidthat you wrote your book sort
(36:25):
of around.
Tabitha Yates (36:26):
Right.
Yeah.
Um I would tell her that Jesusis not against you, that just
wait and hold on to seeeverything that he's gonna bring
(36:48):
through this, that he is kindand that he is for you, and that
he is faithful, and what you'reseeing of him right now is not
you're not gonna be limited bythat, that he's gonna reveal
himself to you in ways that areso much more amazing, and you're
(37:08):
gonna see that he wantsfullness of life for you.
And I would just tell her tohold on that it can get better
and it will get better, and thatI'll fight for her, and I'll
fight for healing until she canfinally take an easy breath in
and feel at peace, and that oneday her life is gonna be
peaceful and she's gonna be okayand she's gonna be safe.
Israel Caminero (37:30):
Amen.
Amen.
That's good.
Well, Tabitha, we're coming toa close, and I just want to say
thank you for opening your heartand sharing your testimony
today with everyone.
I'm sure someone that'slistening might be going through
the same thing.
But before we close, do youthink you could pray us out?
Tabitha Yates (37:53):
No, absolutely.
Heavenly Father, I thank you somuch that you are a good father
who gives good gifts to hischildren.
I thank you that your love forus is endless, Lord, that you
never leave or forsake us, andthat in all of our trials,
you're still working, you'restill present, you're still
(38:14):
loving, and you are still good.
I pray that for the listenerwho might be experiencing deep
hardship or pain or trauma orabuse, Lord, I pray that you
would put your hand on themright now and that you would
minister your peace to them andthat you would speak words of
healing and wholeness and lifeover them, Lord, that you would
(38:36):
draw them out of the flood waterand you would guide them to
where they can find the helpthat they need, Lord, that you
would just be a light and showthem that way out of that dark
tunnel, God.
I thank you, God, that you arealways before us, that there's
never a situation, there's nevera moment that we're gonna step
into that you're not alreadythere and you're not already
(38:57):
waiting and you're present andavailable, God, that is always
there for us, Lord.
I pray that you would justbring comfort and hope and
healing to all the heartslistening today in the name of
Jesus.
Amen.
Israel Caminero (39:10):
Amen.
Amen.
Thank you for that prayer andthank you for being here and
taking the time to share yourtestimony, for courageously
sharing your story with everyonetoday.
You know, it's a powerfulreminder that our brokenness is
not too much for God, and thathealing is found in him.
You know, prayer community andyes, sometimes it's therapy and
(39:33):
professional help.
And I just want to say to allthe listeners around the world,
you know, I just want to thankyou for always tuning in and
support.
And I also want to saytestimony, encourage you to hold
on to hope, to seek help whenneeded, and to remember that
Jesus walked with you throughevery season of life.
(39:54):
All glory goes to God for thework He continues to do in our
lives.
Until next time.
Pressing forward, keepbelieving, and keep giving him
glory.
Because remember, it's herstory, but it's all for his
glory.
Amen.
Thank you so much for tuning in to today's
episode.
I'm grateful for your supportand for being part of this
community.
If you've been enjoying thepodcast so far, I'd love it if
you could take a minute to leavea review.
Your feedback helps me reachmore people and share these
inspiring stories with others.
Let's spread the word.
Please share this podcast withyour friends and family.
(00:27):
And if you haven't already, besure to like and subscribe for
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To stay connected and up todate on all the latest news,
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(00:48):
Thanks again for listening, andI'll catch you in the next
episode.
Welcome to Living TestimonyStories of Faith and Redemption.
(01:13):
I'm your host, Israel Caminero,and I hope that everyone that's
listening today is blessed anddoing well.
With me today, I have my sisterin Christ.
Her name is Tabitha Yates.
Can you say a little bit aboutyourself, Tabitha, to everyone?
Tabitha Yates (01:28):
My name is Tabitha.
I live in Southern Arizona.
I am the author of Jesus andTherapy, Bridging the Gap
Between Faith and Mental Health.
I'm a writer and an editor anda mental health advocate.
I have three kiddos that Ihomeschool all of them here in
Arizona, and I deeply wish Ilived somewhere without
rattlesnakes and cactus.
Israel Caminero (01:50):
Homeschooling.
My wife just startedhomeschooling our two kids this
year for the first time.
Well, not for the first time,but they were going to school
and they decided they wanted toget homeschooled, so we'll see
how that venture goes.
Tabitha Yates (02:03):
It is an adventure for sure.
Israel Caminero (02:06):
Indeed.
I'm glad I'll be at work whileshe's doing that.
Um so she's here to share hertestimony, as always, and before
she does it, I'd like to justpray over us and say, Father
God, we come before you todaywith grateful hearts.
Thank you for giving us thisplatform where testimonies of
your goodness and healing can beshared.
(02:26):
Lord, we ask that you blessthis conversation, that every
word spoken would point back toyou.
May this testimony bringcomfort to the hurting, strength
to the weary, and hope to thosewho feel alone.
Holy Spirit lead us and leteverything said today glorify
the name of Jesus.
Amen.
So Tabitha, thank you for beinghere again.
(02:48):
I know your story willencourage many who are
listening.
Let's start with your journeyand what brought you to where
you are today.
Can you share a little aboutyour background and challenges
you faced growing up?
Tabitha Yates (03:00):
Yes, absolutely.
So I was raised in ahalf-Christian home.
Um, my mother was a believer,my father was not.
So I was led to Christ when Iwas three years old, but it
definitely did not uh save mefrom a life of trauma,
unfortunately.
My dad was very physically,emotionally, mentally, verbally
(03:23):
abusive.
Um, so by the time I was, youknow, not even six months old,
I'd be I had been beaten tounconsciousness.
I was regularly, you know,being wounded.
And it was a very rocky startto where I really don't even
remember.
There's not a time I can lookback and remember in my
childhood that was not verydifficult.
(03:45):
And so my parents um ended upgetting a divorce when I was
seven.
We moved around a lot in themilitary, and so by that point I
was already suffering from, youknow, the beginning stages of a
lot of mental health issuesjust because of, again, you
know, such complex trauma goingon continually.
Um, when my dad left, my momdecided to kind of immerse us in
(04:10):
a really uh legalistic,unhealthy church and let all
those men kind of take the spotof my dad.
So I ended up being abused bymy pastor, my elder, by visiting
men in the church, and justsuffering from a lot of
spiritual and church abuse aswell.
And so I was just kind ofimmersed in this um Christian
(04:32):
background, but really with aJesus that was being shown to me
that was not at all who Jesusreally is.
Israel Caminero (04:41):
Wow.
So you said you were gettingabused by the pastor and other
men in the church?
Tabitha Yates (04:50):
Yeah, there was um some really severe verbal
abuse going on and a lot ofspiritual abuse, a lot of
gaslighting, um, a lot of um,it's just a very, very unhealthy
environment um where women andchildren were incredibly
devalued.
And um when I started reallyfalling into a depression, and I
(05:14):
came to church leaders and andtold them, um, I was told
everything from, you know, it'smy sin.
Again, I'm just a little child.
God's um given up on me, he'swashing his hands of me.
I'm beyond reaching and notworth saving.
If I prayed more, I wouldn'thave these problems.
If I attempted suicide, I'd goto hell.
(05:36):
And just it was a very, verydark place and no real support
there, and no realrepresentation of you know God's
true heart towards me.
It was just, you know, therewas something really wrong with
me, and it was all me, and noneof the abuse I was experiencing
was recognized as the source ofobviously my budding depression.
(05:58):
Um, and so it was just reallyjust a very toxic environment
where there was no awareness ofof their actions, of you know,
the actions of my parents andwhat that was doing to my mental
health at that young age, andit was just um really, really
just an unhealthy place to growup.
Israel Caminero (06:17):
Sure sounds like it.
I wouldn't want to be going tothat church, I'll tell you that
right now.
Tabitha Yates (06:23):
No.
Israel Caminero (06:23):
Um considering what you said, how did those
struggles affect your faith andthe way you saw God at that
time?
Tabitha Yates (06:31):
Well, that is the hardest part because when it
is, you know, foundationalpeople in your life as a child,
when it's your parents, whenit's church leadership, what you
just assume that their word isGod's truth, you know, and you
don't question it.
And so those very that verymuch became my beliefs about God
and about myself.
(06:52):
I just formed these corebeliefs.
Um I'm too much for God, Hedoesn't love me, there's not
enough grace for me, I've gonetoo far, He wants to wash His
hands of me.
Um, I I'm too messed up to evercome to Jesus.
So, like everything that myhome life taught me, you know,
my the church kind ofreinforced, and so I already
(07:15):
felt like absolutely unable tocome to Jesus, probably by the
time I was 10, 12 years old.
Just I it that was notavailable to me because I was so
horrible in my mind.
Israel Caminero (07:29):
So, what was the turning point when you began
to experience healing, youknow, as far as knowing that
that wasn't true discipleship oranything like that from the
church?
Tabitha Yates (07:41):
Um, that took it took a it getting a lot, lot
worse.
Um, I got to the point when Iwas 14 and I was severely
suicidal.
And directly following a churchservice, I attempted suicide
when I was um 15 years old.
I overdosed and blacked out.
Um, but I woke up the next dayand it, you know, continued with
(08:05):
self-harm, eventuallyculminating in me being locked
in a psych ward when I was just16 years old.
And that was just an absoluterock bottom for me.
But unfortunately, when you area minor and you don't have
autonomy, you can recognize thetoxicity in the situation and
you can't necessarily alwaysescape it.
(08:26):
So I was being forced to attendthat church, even though I knew
it was killing me anddestroying any hope of me having
a healthy relationship withJesus.
And I knew it wasn't anaccurate represent
representation of who God wasand what his heart was to me.
But by that point, when I wasabout 16 years old, I just
completely left the faith.
I refused to go to that churchanymore.
(08:48):
I said, I will go to adifferent church as long as I'm
under your roof, but it's notgoing to be this one anymore.
And so I, but really, I justcompletely detached because I
could see no healthy pathforward.
I could, I could see no waythat I could be a Christian.
It just seemed incompatiblewith who I was and who they were
telling me I was.
And so it took it getting so,so, so much darker.
(09:09):
And I remember when I finallygot out of a psychiatric
hospital driving home and justattempting to form a prayer
because I've been refusing totalk to God for quite a while
and just like, God, I'm gonnatry one more time.
And if you can do what you doand show me who you really are,
I'm gonna give you a chance.
(09:30):
And it was crazy because I wascoming up over a hill when I was
praying, and I came back downthe hill, and there was a huge
rainbow.
And it was like I was literallytelling God, I'm making you no
promises, um, but he was makingme one that he was gonna show up
and he was gonna be faithful.
And it ended up then justbecoming this lifelong journey
(09:50):
of healing, of unraveling, ofrecovering from church hurt, of
a lot of counseling.
That's why my book is uses intherapy, and so much of what I
talk about is those two thingsworking together for the most
comprehensive healing because Icouldn't do one without the
other.
There was so much brokennessand trauma, and um, I had to
(10:11):
address it and I had to workreally hard to get to the root
of all those things and replaceall those beliefs that had been
formed about myself, the worldaround me, who God was, who I
was, and I couldn't have arelationship with Jesus until I
found out who he really was andhow he really loved me and to
where I walked through so muchof that.
(10:31):
So it's really from that on,that was like kind of the point
that propelled me when I um gotout of the psychiatric hospital.
But then it was also motherhoodthat really solidified like,
man, this is a lifelong journey.
Because when I had my kids, youknow, of course, it brings out
a whole new side of you, and somany triggers and things that I
(10:52):
saw still came up, and and I waslike, I'm I'm not gonna pass
this on to my kids.
I'm gonna make sure that theyhave the most health, healthy,
and whole parent that they canpossibly have.
So that sent me to even deeperhealing and even more intensive
therapy that I could just walkthrough as much trauma as I
needed to, so that I could be aspresent and whole for them as
(11:14):
possible.
And so it's really not a shortjourney.
It's been a long, lifelongthing of because again, it's
your core beliefs, it'severything you built your life
on and your beliefs abouteverything around you.
And I had to just strip thatback down to nothing and let God
slowly whisper the truth to meand reveal it to me and be
faithful to keep on showing itto me until I finally believed
(11:37):
it.
And so God has just been sofaithful to walk with me through
this kind of journey ofbrokenness to discovery of his
heart for me and others, andthat's just my passion now, you
know, to help other people walkthrough that brokenness and walk
through their mental healthstruggles and find out, you
know, that maybe God isn't whoyou thought he was and who other
(11:58):
people and Christiansrepresented him to you as.
Israel Caminero (12:02):
That's true.
I heard you mention that for along time you believed mental
health struggles meant meantweak faith.
What shifted in you when yourealized that that wasn't true?
Tabitha Yates (12:17):
That was just that was what I was always told.
That was the misconception, andreally is still, I think, one
of the primary misconceptionsthat people have regarding
believers who struggle withtheir mental health.
But um, that that was one ofthe things that was really
drilled in me that it wassomehow a reflection of my
belief in God.
(12:37):
Like if I believed more, if Iprayed more, if I trusted more,
I wouldn't have these problems.
And it's just simply not truebecause we live in a broken
world and people have free will.
And those people with free willwere inflicting very
significant harm on my being inevery possible way.
And so the brain is a part ofthe body and it can have
(12:58):
inherent brokenness as well.
But trauma creates brokennessthat that not that God would
ever want that for you, but it'sa reality of living in this
world that we have to walkthrough.
And I was able to get to apoint where I realized how
deeply my church wasspiritualizing mental health
issues that made perfect sensegiven, you know, the fact that
(13:21):
I'm being beaten tounconsciousness and attempting
suicide and struggling with allthese things, and no adults were
helping me, and I wasn'tallowed to go to therapy.
Um, and my church, it was avery illegitimate thing.
They they had no awareness ofanything with mental health,
they didn't recognize it.
It was all faith to them, itwas all lack of faith.
And so that was so much of whatI had to unravel and realize
(13:45):
that it's not a moral flaw, thatI wasn't in sin, that I wasn't
doing something wrong because Iwas struggling with depression
and anxiety and suicidality.
I was a child who was beingdeeply abused and not getting
the help I needed to walkthrough that.
So of course I had issues.
Israel Caminero (14:02):
Wow.
It's hard to believe that achurch would just say that it
was lack of faith.
You know, instead of trying toshepherd and help you while
you're going through things likethis.
So I mean, obviously, you'regood with the church now, right?
Tabitha Yates (14:18):
Yeah, I took it took a lot of of healing and
recovering, but I am an activechurch member now, and um I love
the church, and that's why I'mwilling to talk about the things
we're missing the mark on, sothat we can do better, so that
we can love people better, sothat we can, you know, um help
and not harm people.
Israel Caminero (14:38):
So is this the same church or a different
church?
Tabitha Yates (14:41):
Oh no, yes, no, it's many churches later.
We're a military family, so I Imoved quite a bit.
So this was kind of mychildhood church, and so I'm
very far removed from it now.
Israel Caminero (14:51):
Okay, just making that clear.
So, okay, so how did how didyour experience with the church,
both the hurt and obviously theeventual healing, shape your
understanding of God's love foryou?
Tabitha Yates (15:07):
Hmm.
I think it shaped it in anegative way, so that I had to
then really go through a processof separating Christ from
Christianity and really namingthe hurt, who inflicted hurt on
me, how they did it, and really,you know, identifying each
(15:30):
situation where woundingoccurred, so then I could look
at that situation and be like,where was God in that?
Was that his heart?
Is this what the Bible says Godsays about me?
And I was able to break everysituation down and see how God
was not in that interactionwhatsoever.
He would that was not hisheart, that was not biblical,
what they were telling me wasfalse, and I was able to then
(15:51):
separate him so I couldappropriately assign the blame
and the hurt to the rightpeople, so then I could walk
through that process rather thanbecause as a child that was all
just reflected on God.
That that became my belief ofwho Jesus was because that's
what they're telling me hethought.
And so it the biggest part umof recovering from church hurt
(16:14):
for me was really identifyingwhat was people and what was
God, and who do I need to beforgiving and walking through
this process of healing with.
And it came down when it wasall stripped to bare bones.
Like I don't know who Jesus isat all because everything that
has been shown of him to me isfalse.
(16:35):
And so I had to do such a deepdive into the word of God and
the character of God, just to belike, okay, this is how, and
you know, that's why in my bookI have a whole chapter about all
the people in the Bible thatkind of wrestled with, you know,
emotional problems and mentalhealth problems, because I
wanted to look at what was God'sresponse to every single one of
these people.
Did he respond with anger?
(16:57):
Did he respond with impatience,or did he respond with kindness
and grace and compassion?
And so slowly looking at howGod treated other people like me
and people that were hurtingand seeing how kind he was, that
was the only thing that drew meback when I finally saw that
everything I believed about himwas false and that I was willing
(17:19):
to let the word of God and thetruth of who he was rebuild my
and reshape my view of God andthen the church subsequently
after that.
Israel Caminero (17:28):
That's good.
You know, sometimes people doget hurt and wounded by the
church, but they fail to realizethat the people that go to the
church aren't God and they'rethe ones doing the hurting, you
know.
Tabitha Yates (17:43):
Right.
And I do think there's a verylegitimate process, you know,
that people need to walk throughbecause I never want to bypass
that wounding with someone.
And I I talked to a lot ofpeople about church hurt.
I just did an interviewyesterday that was solely about
church hurt, because it is avery legitimate thing, and I
don't think you can forceyourself past it.
Like if you don't truly walkthrough all the steps to heal,
(18:06):
every church you walk in after,you're gonna immediately be
seeing everything through thatlens and looking for the hurt
and looking for the offense.
And again, it's a room full ofimperfect people, so you're
gonna find it really quickly ifthat's what you're going and
looking for.
And if you're going in lookingfor Jesus and looking for, okay,
yes, what is the fruit in thesepeople and using discernment?
Is this a healthy body?
(18:27):
Um, that's absolutelyimportant.
But if you haven't walkedthrough that, that anger and
bitterness, like that's that'sstill most of what you're gonna
see.
And so I was able to trustafter I'd walked through so much
healing and forgiveness andnaming the abuse and naming the
pain and then processing throughit, I was able to trust that I
(18:48):
now know who God is.
So I'm not gonna walk into anychurch and not get a red flag if
what they are presenting ofJesus is not the Jesus I know
from the Bible and in my heart.
And I now know who I am, whoGod says I am.
So I'm not gonna walk into abuilding now and be told things
and be prophesied things over methat are not God's heart for me
and I know are not biblical.
(19:09):
So I had to get much strongerin my faith and in my beliefs
before I trusted that I'm notgonna be in this situation again
because I have a discernmentnow where I know if I walk into
a building and a body ofbelievers that is not healthy,
like I will see it and I willtrust that discernment in me
(19:30):
now.
Israel Caminero (19:30):
That's good, Tabitha.
You also mentioned earlier thatprofessional help helped you in
your journey.
So what I want to know is howdid the professional help
alongside with your relationshipwith Jesus you know, can you
(19:51):
share how those two worktogether to bring you freedom?
Tabitha Yates (19:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Again, since I grew up in achurch that was Was this was not
allowed, you know.
Again, it's it it took megetting to the point where I had
attempted suicide before I wasfinally allowed to see a
counselor.
Um, I very much, you know, wasraised with the mentality of
this is not necessary, this isgoing to a source outside of
(20:15):
Jesus, you don't need this, allyou need is Jesus.
And then there's the other sidewhere, you know, so there's a
side where peopleover-spiritualize it to such an
extent that you don't havebrokenness and real issues and
trauma that you have to workthrough.
But then simultaneously,there's people that immerse
themselves in every self-help,every, you know, meditative,
(20:38):
every everything you couldpossibly do on the world side of
treating mental health, andit's not enough.
Because if you don't haveJesus, you truly won't
experience wholeness.
You won't be walking in thepurpose and what you were made
for, and it will never beenough.
And so for me, I had to realizethat those two are not
(20:58):
opposing, that they can go handin hand, that God has equipped
so many helpers and people thatthat are biblically sound, but
they also understandneuroscience and they understand
mental health conditions andthey and they understand trauma
care and that matters.
When you've been deeply woundedand traumatized, you need to
(21:21):
process and face those things.
Your body remembers, your brainremembers, it just lives inside
of you until you face it.
And so for me, finallyrealizing that those things
could come together in amarriage where where I didn't
have to have one or the other, Ididn't have to walk through
this alone.
All the painful healing andunraveling I had to do, God was
gonna be there with me, in itwith me.
(21:43):
He cared intimately about mypain, but it still took action
steps, it still took things thatI had to do to face things, to
feel things, to release things,to forgive things.
And it it took both of thosethings.
It again, so much complextrauma.
I had been in therapy from thetime I was 15, and I go still
(22:04):
now because there's so muchvalue in me being able to have a
sounding board and me alwayshaving accountability.
And anytime I feel somethingcoming up, again, now that I'm a
parent, I take triggers reallyseriously.
I do have PTSD from all theabuse I experienced as a child.
So when I recognize thatsomething's coming up in me and
an intense reaction is coming upin me, and it's spilling out
(22:26):
over to my kids, that's my hardline where I'm like, nope, like
time to go back and time to talkthis out until I can have this
not touch my children and not besomething that I pass on to
them and make their issue.
So it is very much somethingthat I have done hand in hand.
I couldn't have healed and hadthe strength to keep facing it
(22:48):
without my faith being myanchor, but I also could not
have healed without having theguidance from trusted counselors
and professionals and friendsthat poured into my life and
helped me understand the traumathat I went through and the
depression and the anxiety andthe sources of it, and to walk
(23:08):
through those so that they nolonger controlled my life.
Israel Caminero (23:12):
So you mentioned that you still have
triggers, correct?
Well, I mean, obviouslyeveryone still has triggers.
So how are you today as far asyour faith is is good?
I can tell your faith is good.
How is everything going todayfor Tabitha and in your
household?
Tabitha Yates (23:30):
You know, I am so open about this because I still
have panic attacks.
I love to I love to start offwhen I'm having conversation
with people of me beingvulnerable first.
And niece, I I always believedthe lie that I wouldn't have a
testimony until I'd come throughthe test.
And in my mind, that meant Ihad conquered everything.
(23:52):
I'd worked through everything.
I this that never, you know,rears this ugly head again.
And that's just simply nottrue.
I have experienced so muchhardship even through the
process of writing this book.
There was um opposition frompeople close to me that didn't
want me to share the truthbecause anytime you bring abuse
and hard things into the light,you know, the people who
benefited from you being silentare not going to be happy about
(24:13):
that.
So I've had to walk through athird, fourth, fifth healing
process, you know, writing thebook in the seven months since
it's been out from the thingsthat I've faced.
I very much still have to fightwith anxiety.
And it's amazing to me becausemy faith is unshakable.
Like you could not tell me nowthat I don't pray enough and
(24:35):
that I don't trust God because Ihave anxiety, because I know
how hard I cling to Him.
But I also recognize just asthe aftermath of everything I
have experienced in this life,that I'm gonna have some
physical symptoms that I stillhave to face.
And it's not, you know, it'snot God failing me that I don't
have this absolute completedeliverance and I've never had
(24:56):
another panic attack again.
It is just the naturalconsequence of some of you know
the very hard things that I havebeen and sometimes still
experienced.
But I feel like God has givenme so much clarity, so much
peace, so much, you know, I I'vebeen able to walk through most
of my depression because Ibelieve it was so circumstantial
(25:18):
from being trapped in, youknow, some really dark things
for a really long time.
You know, but I am honest withpeople, like, yeah, I still have
I had a panic attack last week.
Like I still face these thingsand I still face the reality of
living in a broken world with abrain that was severely damaged
as a child through all of myabuse, and it still hurts and
(25:39):
things are still hard.
But I have been able to letallow God to move in me and
through me in a way that I stillcan pass on the lessons I've
learned through all of thesestruggles I've been through, and
I can still do good for himbecause he's good and he is
faithful to use even the mostbroken, flawed people.
And so I feel like I'm in aplace where I have a lot of
(26:02):
hope.
I'm in a place where I have somuch peace.
I'm an I'm I love my kids.
I'm so proud of the parent Ibecame, even though I had no
example in front of me of how todo that and how to be a healthy
parent.
I'm so proud that my all mykids love the Lord and have have
him in their hearts, and thatI've been able to carve out a
(26:25):
completely different path.
And I've been able to breakreally generational things.
And so overall, I'm reallyproud and I'm really thankful,
and I really just have anoverwhelming amount of peace for
where God has me right now.
Israel Caminero (26:42):
Yeah, it sounds like you have God as your first
foundation, which is alwaysgood.
Yeah, so you've mentioned yourbook and it's Jesus in therapy,
right?
Yep.
You've mentioned it a fewtimes, and can you reflect on
what you hope readers take awayfrom your book?
Tabitha Yates (27:04):
You know, one of the very first things that I
wanted to do is I wanted to saywhat I would have said to me as
a kid.
All the things that I needed aChristian to say to me, that I
needed a leader to say to me.
I wanted to be the person to bethat balm for wounded souls.
And that's the first andforemost thing that I wanted
(27:25):
this book to be, that someonejust felt seen and known and
loved by God after they read it,that they just felt like they
had received a big hug and hadbeen so validated in everything
that they had been through.
And I talked to hundreds andhundreds of people that have
experienced so much wounding atthe hands of the church, um,
(27:46):
mostly because of their mentalhealth issues not being
understood properly.
And so I really wanted topresent a biblical and accurate
understanding of mental health.
I wanted to build a morecompassionate church.
I wanted us to understand howto love and show up for people
who are struggling.
I, you know, specificallyaddress, you know, pastors and
(28:08):
church leadership in the book,but also people who have loved
ones that are struggling, andthen just the people themselves
that have been wounded and thatare just barely hang hanging on
to their faith, maybe becauseyou've been so beat down and you
just don't see how the two cango together and how you can keep
on struggling the way you'vebeen struggling, but still have
this faith.
And so I really just wanted tospeak so much truth and hope and
(28:32):
healing.
And I always joke that thereare no ABCs after my name.
I don't have a professionallicensing, but I think the lived
experience breathes a lot ofhope into people to see people
who have been in such a darkplace that they hated life and
never wanted to wake up the nextmorning, and how God can bring
that full circle to where theyare now speaking that life into
(28:55):
so many other people.
And that's really what God didfor me and what I knew He tasked
me to do in this book is tojust be a living beacon of hope
for people that it can getbetter.
Healing is hard, but it's worthit, and God will be faithful to
walk you through the process ifyou keep on going and don't
quit.
And when we are faithless, heis faithful.
(29:17):
And so I really just wantedsomeone to walk away feeling
seen and feeling understood.
Israel Caminero (29:24):
Amen.
Amen.
And I'll have links to thatbook on the description of this
podcast and anything else thatshe might want to share if
anyone's interested to go andget the book and read it.
I like to support everyonethat's on here.
We're almost coming to a close,Tabitha, but I have a few more
questions.
And I'll start with, you know,for someone listening right now
(29:46):
who feels caught between theirfaith and their mental health,
what encouragement would youwant to speak into their life
today?
Tabitha Yates (29:54):
Just know that God is for you and not against
you, that your mental health isnot a punishment from him, that
he is present in your pain, andsometimes in those times where
he seems the most distant iswhen he is doing the most work.
And that there's nothing to beashamed of of bringing in help.
(30:16):
There are multiple verses inthe Bible that discuss the
benefits of wise counsel, and itis not contrary to your faith
to receive counsel.
So know that you can hold on toJesus and still take the steps
you need to to heal and addressthe hardships and trauma you've
been through and take care ofyour mental health.
(30:37):
Jesus had an absolutely wholehealth approach, and he takes
care of us mind, body, soul,spirit.
So I just want people to knowthat it is okay to go and find
help, and you are not betrayingyour faith by doing so.
Israel Caminero (30:52):
That's right.
That's right.
God works through people, youknow.
So I know people that won't goto doctors or anything like that
because they're like, no, God'sgonna heal me, which which it's
true.
It's good to have faith likethat, but God also works through
professional help through themto help you too.
Tabitha Yates (31:13):
Right.
And it's just that classicclassic story of, you know, the
man waiting for the for the boator waiting for rescue when
there's a flood and he gets toheaven and God sent him every
practical means to save him.
He's like, God, why didn't yousave me?
And there are people that Godhas put around us when the flood
is rising, and we are allowedto call on those people, you
(31:34):
know, and and it's I say thesame thing about physical
health, you know.
If you're in the middle ofhaving a heart attack, you're
gonna be praying.
Absolutely.
But are you gonna not also call911?
Like you're gonna take theaction step in the practical
sense that you need to do totake care of your immediate
health issue, and it's nodifferent, and it shouldn't be
any different.
Israel Caminero (31:55):
That's right.
That's absolutely right.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause I I I have friends that
are like that that won't go tothe hospital or anything like
that, but like I said, you know,God works through people to
help you.
Yep.
So you've gone through a lot ofhardships and you're you're no
(32:20):
longer going through thosehardships right now or anything
like that, praise God.
I want to know, was there alife verse that you have,
whether you were growing up orthat you have to to this date,
that when you're having a badday, you can always go back to
and read and what that lifeverse is and what it means to
(32:41):
you?
Tabitha Yates (32:43):
I kind of have one that's been an anchor, it's
a bit paraphrased, and then Ihave one now, and one of the
ones that's carried me throughand really speaks to what my
faith is is in Daniel, where itit's you know, yes, God can save
us, but it was Shadarch,Meshach, and Abend ago, but if
not, he is still good.
(33:04):
And just that idea that God hasnot taken me out of some really
hard things.
And for me to be able todeclare the goodness of God
after all the trauma I've beenthrough, that is the level of
faith and trust, the journey hetook me on, to where even if to
(33:27):
the natural eyes something isnot good and it is not seeming
to turn out in my favor, that Ican still say, God, I know even
if you do not save me from thisspecific situation or this
specific pain, you're still goodand you're still with me.
And the verse that I love rightnow, so you know, so much
because I feel like it's verymuch the way God is using me is
(33:49):
2 Corinthians 1, 4.
And that's just that the fatherof compassion, God of all
comfort, comforts us in all ourtroubles so that we can be a
comfort to any trouble and thatwe can give that comfort to
others.
And I wouldn't have the empathyand the compassion and any
(34:10):
wisdom if I hadn't walkedthrough all this pain myself.
And so the it's really thatthat vision of God brought me
through the fire, and now he'ssending me back with buckets of
water for for other people, andthat that I'm able to take the
ways I've I've been comforted byhim, and now I'm able to pass
(34:32):
that on to other people and belike, no, this is how really how
much God loves you.
This is really what his heartis towards you and what he
thinks about you, and I'm ableto now pour that out onto others
because God has been sogracious to give me that comfort
throughout all the hardships inmy life, and so that's a verse
that I'm really living in rightnow.
Israel Caminero (34:51):
Amen, amen.
And the first one was uh, Ibelieve it was Daniel 316, I
believe.
Yes, yeah, so we're there inthe fire, correct?
Yes, all right.
Yeah, definitely God coulddefinitely save us.
All we have to do is surrender.
And God'll be right there.
(35:12):
God's always there.
It's just sometimes we're hardheaded and don't want to seek
him.
Tabitha Yates (35:20):
And just the idea that he's presence and it's
it's it's that level ofsurrender in our hearts that I
know you can, but even if youdon't, I'm still gonna praise
you and you're still good.
And it's not you know blaminghim for being in the fire, it's
choosing to surrender to thatprocess of refinement and trials
and whatever it is that you'rewishing God would take you out
(35:42):
of, and maybe he's not.
Israel Caminero (35:44):
Right, that's right, because we're impatient,
that's what it is.
God does everything in histiming, not ours.
Tabitha Yates (35:51):
Yep.
Israel Caminero (35:52):
So sometimes people don't realize it.
Sometimes it it happened andthey're like, wow, it took that
long, but hey, it happens.
Tabitha Yates (36:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
Israel Caminero (36:03):
But now I'm going to my back to the past
section of the podcast.
And what my back to the pastsection is, you touched on it
earlier.
If you can go back and talk tothe younger Tabitha, what would
you say to her that you didn'tknow then?
This is something that you saidthat you wrote your book sort
(36:25):
of around.
Tabitha Yates (36:26):
Right.
Yeah.
Um I would tell her that Jesusis not against you, that just
wait and hold on to seeeverything that he's gonna bring
(36:48):
through this, that he is kindand that he is for you, and that
he is faithful, and what you'reseeing of him right now is not
you're not gonna be limited bythat, that he's gonna reveal
himself to you in ways that areso much more amazing, and you're
(37:08):
gonna see that he wantsfullness of life for you.
And I would just tell her tohold on that it can get better
and it will get better, and thatI'll fight for her, and I'll
fight for healing until she canfinally take an easy breath in
and feel at peace, and that oneday her life is gonna be
peaceful and she's gonna be okayand she's gonna be safe.
Israel Caminero (37:30):
Amen.
Amen.
That's good.
Well, Tabitha, we're coming toa close, and I just want to say
thank you for opening your heartand sharing your testimony
today with everyone.
I'm sure someone that'slistening might be going through
the same thing.
But before we close, do youthink you could pray us out?
Tabitha Yates (37:53):
No, absolutely.
Heavenly Father, I thank you somuch that you are a good father
who gives good gifts to hischildren.
I thank you that your love forus is endless, Lord, that you
never leave or forsake us, andthat in all of our trials,
you're still working, you'restill present, you're still
(38:14):
loving, and you are still good.
I pray that for the listenerwho might be experiencing deep
hardship or pain or trauma orabuse, Lord, I pray that you
would put your hand on themright now and that you would
minister your peace to them andthat you would speak words of
healing and wholeness and lifeover them, Lord, that you would
(38:36):
draw them out of the flood waterand you would guide them to
where they can find the helpthat they need, Lord, that you
would just be a light and showthem that way out of that dark
tunnel, God.
I thank you, God, that you arealways before us, that there's
never a situation, there's nevera moment that we're gonna step
into that you're not alreadythere and you're not already
(38:57):
waiting and you're present andavailable, God, that is always
there for us, Lord.
I pray that you would justbring comfort and hope and
healing to all the heartslistening today in the name of
Jesus.
Amen.
Israel Caminero (39:10):
Amen.
Amen.
Thank you for that prayer andthank you for being here and
taking the time to share yourtestimony, for courageously
sharing your story with everyonetoday.
You know, it's a powerfulreminder that our brokenness is
not too much for God, and thathealing is found in him.
You know, prayer community andyes, sometimes it's therapy and
(39:33):
professional help.
And I just want to say to allthe listeners around the world,
you know, I just want to thankyou for always tuning in and
support.
And I also want to saytestimony, encourage you to hold
on to hope, to seek help whenneeded, and to remember that
Jesus walked with you throughevery season of life.
(39:54):
All glory goes to God for thework He continues to do in our
lives.
Until next time.
Pressing forward, keepbelieving, and keep giving him
glory.
Because remember, it's herstory, but it's all for his
glory.
Amen.
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