Advent, Waiting, and the Slow Work of Becoming Whole

Advent draws us into a kind of waiting that’s active, hopeful, and deeply human. In this episode, we explore how holy waiting mirrors the slow, interior work of healing — in ourselves, in our relationships, and within our families.

We share how waiting became a core part of our own story: navigating old patterns, living in the tension of the “not yet,” and learning to trust that God works in hidden places long before change becomes visible.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What Advent teaches us about waiting with expectation
• The difference between holy waiting and passive endurance
• Why healing unfolds slowly and why that’s aligned with Catholic anthropology
• What is and isn’t worth waiting for in your own healing
• How to stay grounded when transformation feels delayed

Referenced:

Shadow & Light Advent Reflection: https://www.tshoxenreider.com/advent

Advent Calendar: https://shopstoryofthislife.com/

If the waiting in your own life has been stirring things up…
We’d love to walk with you. Join us for our upcoming webinar where we’ll explore how to disentangle from family-of-origin patterns without cutting people off or losing yourself. Save your free seat at the link below:

https://unmeshed.online/webinar-registration-page

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Living the Third Way.
We are your hosts, Shay andAdrian, and this episode is
coming to you probably about aweek into the season of Advent.
And I don't know about you all,but I am tired.
How are you feeling, Adrian?

SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Yep, uh, just about the same.
Um, I think on on top ofeverything, I've got me a little
very slowly recovering back.
And um, the upside is is I Ithink I finally got my first
full night of sleep in aboutclose to two weeks without
either a baby or a little bit ofa little bit of backache uh

(00:51):
didn't wake me up.
So you know what?
I'm I'm fresh and ready to go,at least according to this new
new standard.
But um but yeah, so for all ofyou out there, stressed, tired,
whatever it is, somewhere in themiddle, or right there with you,
and and happy to be here,imperfect as this as this pod
might be, we're just gonna we'rejust gonna bring it as we are.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
Not much else we can do.
Um, yeah, so between sleepdeprivation from a teething
one-year-old and just thebusyness of the season itself,
tired.
Tired is how I feel tired is howwe feel, you know, as as mentors
and even just living our ownlife, we know that the tiredness

(01:38):
doesn't just come from all ofthe holiday shopping or the
sleep deprivation or recoveringfrom back injuries, but this
season requires a lot of workfrom us emotionally.
You know, there's a lot ofevents, there's a lot of people,
there's a lot of relationships,there's a lot of family
gatherings, and it can be a lot.

(02:00):
It is often the case that thesesorts of events actually cause
us to confront some of the painand suffering and woundedness
that we've probably spent a longtime waiting to heal from.
In our experience, and even inthe people that we walk with and
mentor, we realize, you know, itis these moments, it is these

(02:21):
encounters that we're reallyfaced with this choice.
You know, will we continue tojust wait purposelessly,
meaninglessly, and suffering forsomebody to fix the way that
they hurt us and wounded us, orfor the person that hurt us to

(02:44):
say the right thing or do theright thing and make it all
better, which is, by the way,understandable, an
understandable desire to have.
Or will we wait for the healingthat we desire?
Will we wait for the connectionand the the promise that was
given to us while we actively dothe work to try and improve our

(03:07):
own circumstances, to try andmature our own heart, to grow in
our own capacity?
I think we're faced with thatchoice in these moments.
It's not always an easy choice.
But I think there is beauty inthis season of Advent.
You know, the church doesn'tjust celebrate Christmas, right?
It doesn't just celebrate theevent, you know, where new life

(03:31):
was born into a dark world and aplace of woundedness.
It also gives us this season ofreally, really being an
intention and intentionallyentering into the darkness.

SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
If we were to give this a title, and we obviously
have, right, because we need atitle, uh, it will be, would be,
and is called an advent.
Waiting and the slow work ofbecoming whole.

unknown (03:55):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
We want to talk about the spiritual aspect of
it, and we want to just give youa high-level, high-level view
first.
Advent is it's an annualreminder that God does his best
work in the spaces that wecannot rush.
Suggestation, waiting, longing,becoming Okay.

(04:17):
Let's make it a little bit morerelatable.
I mean, everything for trainingfor a race, you know, learning
your new skill, maybe you tookup knitting or thinking about
it.
Or what resonates for meparticularly, right, is g
cooking a a wonderful meal,right?
That doesn't happen instantly.

(04:38):
You know, one of the greatestgifts that we that we have as
human beings is is time.
We get to actually experience aprocess, you know, see things
again for me with the food,right?
The beauty of individualingredients and where they came
from and who produced them andwho made them and what they're
all about and how they interactwith the soil.
Like all of that is experiencedthrough time and more depth.

(05:02):
So we get to have that processin time.
Time is an essential factor, butit's not just the only one.
You know, just like those otherexamples, um if time isn't
combined with some active levelof participation, then we're
just we're just passengers, andthat just isn't enough.
And healing isn't any different.
And ultimately, like Advent issuch a great invitation into

(05:26):
that.
And so Advent gives us ablueprint of how to actively
combine that gift of time andthe human will and then to align
ourselves.
Okay, before we pivot into ournext part, uh quick question for
everyone here, including Shay.
I'm just dying to try tounderstand.
Why is it that after a baby isborn, after a baby is born, the

(05:49):
mother is ravenous and the babyis super hungry?
How is that possible when theyjust ate?
Okay.

unknown (05:59):
Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Well, um, there you guys have it.
Adrian has not shown this partof himself so far on the
podcast, but we have a bit of acomedian on our hands.

SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
I intend to have fun.

SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
That's good.
We need it.
We need it.
Okay, back to our scheduledmaterial.
Advent.
Okay.
Advent is a season borderedaround holy expectation, right?
We are expectantly waiting,eagerly waiting, the incarnation

(06:38):
of God, you know, God become manentering into our humanity, our
life to allow us to be bornagain.
Whoa.
Okay.
Advent is ordered around holyexpectation, not passivity.
I think Advent is largely one ofthe most misunderstood seasons
in the church.

(06:58):
And even in my own experience,you know, I attest, like I only
recently have really enteredinto the beauty and the
necessity and actually livingAdvent well.
Still a work in progress in thatregard, but the misunderstanding
that people have.
Most people imagine Advent asthis like gentle waiting room

(07:19):
where Christmas music, we'resingle the lights.
We are, you know, we're alreadyhaving our holiday parties,
right?
Like perhaps seeing it as justthis spiritual holding pattern
until Christmas arrives and thebig event, and then we're done,
right?
But Advent is not passive.
Advent is not a season of justtwiddling our thumbs while God

(07:44):
does something out there.
It's not waiting at the airportterminal.
In fact, it's actually more likethe entire process of preparing
for the trip.
It's packing your bags, makingthe itinerary, you know,
everything that you need to doin order to make that trip
wonderful.
So many of us approach Adventlike we just do whatever we need

(08:08):
in order to prepare the dinneror buy the presents or do all
the practical things.
And then maybe if we have enoughenergy in us on Christmas Eve or
Christmas Day, we'll find a wayto acknowledge God made man, the
birth of Christ.
But actually, we can still doall the things that we do in
preparation for the holiday.
There's nothing wrong with theChristmas music or the

(08:31):
decorations or the gifts.
All of that's necessary too.
All of that is preparing ourhearts in a way, but we can also
incorporate the holy expectationinto the day today.
And if you're not there yet,like me, I'm still very much
working on figuring out whatdoes that actually look like,
then maybe we can just look atthis as a chance to do things

(08:52):
differently this year.
Not perfectly, but differently.

SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
So if you do that, you'll actually enter into the
rest of the Christmas season.
Yeah.
The rest of it, right?
After the presents have beenopened.
After the fruitcake has beeneaten, or if you're wise, you
can tactically slide it in thetrash.
And you've washed the dishes,you've made the last airport
run, whatever it is, um, thingswill be different.

(09:20):
And you know, Christmas doesn'tstop on the 26th or at midnight
on the 25th, right?
Christmas season doesn't enduntil the new year.
So keep that in mind.
And my challenge is also to keepyour decorations up until the
Christmas season ends.

SPEAKER_00 (09:37):
I mean, ultimately, right, Advent is a season given
to us so that we can actuallyclear the clutter of our mind
and prepare our hearts and ourminds and our spirits to
actually receive the fullness ofthe joy that is the Christmas
season.
Advent is charged when you thinkof it like that.

(09:57):
You know, when it's when thechurch is giving us the
opportunity to actually enterinto a darkness.
Like that is charged.
I think like even thinking aboutwhat we alluded to at the
beginning of this period of likewaiting maybe in our families
for some healing to happen oryou know, sitting in the
suffering, like that is it is aheavy, charged time.

(10:18):
It's thick with longing.
And Advent is no different.
Advent is a season where wetouch, we touch that part of us
that is longing for God, that islonging for eternity, that is
longing for salvation, anawakening, and a preparation.
It's a season ordered aroundthat holy expectation.
And it requires us to order ourwhole hearts and our wills

(10:42):
toward what we are enteringinto, what we are about to
receive, what our heart longsfor at its core.
And this waiting is an act oftrust that God is actually
working in these hidden places,that this isn't, we aren't in
the darkness in vain, thatsomething is actually going to
happen, that something ishappening.

(11:04):
And the church invites us intothis darkness, not to discourage
us, but to train our hearts tohope.
This isn't just a throwawayphrase.
You know, waiting in hope islike a muscle that can be
exercised and strengthened.
It involves trust, acceptance,abandonment to providence, and a
capacity that allows you to holdthat God is God and man is man,

(11:29):
and that his nature allows himto work within our humanity
while still respecting our freewill and our willingness to
actually accept and receive him.
This is beautiful, right?
We know that God became man.
We know that there's theresurrection intellectually, we
know that.
But Advent and what the churchgives us is this opportunity to

(11:52):
actually start embodying thatemotionally, on like in our most
human spaces, are the parts ofus that don't know of the
resurrection, that don't know ofthe incarnation, to bring those
parts back into this place ofbeing able to hope again.
Right.
And I think so many of us havelost that hope in our families.
And this is an opportunity forus to just start learning that,

(12:15):
relearning that in our bodies,that it is possible to hope.
And so, yes, this idea parallelsthe process of healing so much.
So many of us, like we'll say,want healing to happen, I don't
know, yesterday.
But the sooner we realize thatit is much more complex and
involves the wounds and thefreedom of all of the people in

(12:35):
our lives, the sooner we canappreciate that healing requires
both our effort and ourwillingness to surrender and
realign our expectationsaccording to all of these
factors in real time.
You know, that it isn't justabout us and our hearts and what
we need, but it is all of theseother people that are involved

(12:56):
in the ways that we've beenwounded too.
That's hard.
You'll feel pain.
And you'll also feelbreakthroughs, you'll be able to
see more of the goodness that'shappening when you uh open your
eyes to recognize, you know, thethe involvement of all of these
other people in your lives.

(13:17):
And then maybe you'll feel worseand you'll feel frustrated, and
you'll feel the drawing effectsof what can be versus what is.
Maybe you you'll want to quit atsome point, and maybe you'll
slide back into the familiar,passive just getting through
day-to-day, surviving.

(13:38):
And at the same time, if youactively and trustingly stick
with it, you'll begin to see howGod slowly allows you to heal,
but still exist in a world oreven in a family that is so far
from being on your page, so farfrom pursuing and living the way

(13:58):
that you that you hope or thatyou long for, that you've been
waiting for, so far from beingperfect.

SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
So, as Shay was talking about that, I was just
thinking actually about parallelprocess in the best possible
way.
You do one thing, or like kindof like the karate, karate kid
thing, wax on, wax off, butyou're actually learning another
skill.
Or as I was thinking of amemorable friend of mine from
high school who was a reallygood soccer player, but he also
did a lot of ballet in doing theballet, was really for the

(14:25):
purpose of becoming a bettersoccer player, right?
Think of this idea of just doingadvent well, not just simply for
the for the sake of obeying God,but for all of the skill that it
provides you.
All of the like the ballet didfor the balance and muscle
control and awareness, awarenessof just the body and movement

(14:46):
and how much that translatesover into all of these other
skills, and what a gift it isfor us to have these things
given to us.
And look, it's veryunderstandable that for both of
us, in in one way or another,cradle Catholics, or anyway,
cradle Christian, whatever,cradle evangelical, whatever,
disillusioned version ofyourself you might be or

(15:06):
whatever, it is very easy tolose sight of this as just
something that you do, right?
But there is a purpose, there isa gift, and there is there are
secondary, tertiary, whateverthe next one is, benefits of
doing all these things thatprepare you not just for, and I
say this realizing how sillythis sounds, not just for
Christmas or Christ, but but foreverything else in your life

(15:30):
that is that that he wants to bea part of, that he is a part of,
but to open our eyes and toprepare us for that.
So yeah.
But we have been on every sideof this.
We have definitely launched intojust the busyness of the past,
you know, the busyness of theseason, taking care of errands,
spending forever making listsand checking them twice and all
that nonsense.

(15:50):
We did that.
Definitely just wrapped upAdvent that way.
I've done plenty of half-heartedAdvent reflections, maybe one
one a week, two a week, none aweek.
I've I've done all that.
I think there is something alsoto with the right disposition,
realizing that God meets youwhere you are.
Being reasonable and realisticin what you can do.

(16:13):
So for example, in the previousyear we reflected on what would
be appropriate for us to do forAdvent.
And it's amazing how much morecapacity you have with one child
versus two.
Um and so we discerned like whatwas something that was
reasonable for us.
So we got this book, I thinkit's called Shadow and Light.

(16:34):
Shout out Tish Oxenrider forputting together a beautiful
book that is very manageable anddoable with just daily
reflections and even a song thataccompanies it.
And we got so much out of it.
And you know what?
We set a realistic expectation,and I think we just about met
it.
It wasn't too long, it wasn'ttoo short.
That was the Goldilocks ofAdvent of Advent Reflections for

(16:58):
us.
And it was beautiful.
So if you're just looking toease into something, we're not
we're not sponsored by any we'renot sponsored by anyone, but
we're not sponsored by by bythis this product or anything.
But I highly recommend it.
We're something that isappropriate to you.
And you know what?
This year, we really had to sitin the face of what we are

(17:18):
capable of doing and also theopp the unique opportunities
that we've received in morechildren and less time.
And actually, a gift came ourway from grandma, and I don't
actually know what it's called,so uh missed marketing
opportunity, unless Shay knowsShay, do you know?

SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
I I think it's like the Great Advent Rescue box or
something.
Okay, but yeah, that's betterthan I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Okay, yeah, that's better than the Advent box that
I had that I had sort of jotteddown in my notes.
Um, so something like the GreatChristmas Rescue, and it's
really cool.
It's just a it's like this bigwooden box with 25 individual
wooden boxes inside of it, and aguidebook, and an activity set,
and within each one of those isa little figurine or something

(18:06):
relevant to the Advent story,and every day you open it up
with your kids, and your kids,your older one, tears the paper
and throws it all over theground and throws the figurines
on the ground and then throws afit because he wants to play
with it, and you tell him, Oh,it's actually meant to be more
symbolic.
But then there's a littlereading and a and a little
explanation.
And you know what?
There's a beautiful opportunityto sit there and reflect for

(18:30):
whatever moments you have.

SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
Yeah, and I think entering into Advent in a much
more gentle and compassionateway towards ourselves and
towards what we are and likeknowing ourselves, knowing what
we are and are not able to do,is such a, again, such a
parallel to the process ofhealing.
You know, the expectations wehave of ourselves really color

(18:54):
our ability to enter into ourhealing and to to honor and
celebrate, you know, every stepand every bit of progress well.
This process of waiting, adventor healing, you know, whatever
you're waiting for.
It isn't the absence of thething that you don't have yet.
It's a preparation of yourheart, your mind for what it is

(19:17):
that you are waiting for.
And I think that shift, youknow, that shift of
understanding, like what is thismoment, what does this moment
actually mean?
I think that could change a lotof things.

SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
Yeah, so as as Shay was talking, I just was
remembering a handful of things.
And I think the big point thatthis revolves around is the e
even the incarnation unfoldedsecretly, unbeknownst to just
just a handful of people.
And I I think even those peoplewere figuring it out.
Um, but nine months beforeanyone could see anything that
was actually happening.
So that what a testament to sosometimes things happen right in

(19:51):
front of us that we don'tunderstand, and yet if we trust,
something beautiful can happen.
I can't fully understand.
I remember Was taking asalvation history class at the
Augustine Institute back in theday.
Shout out, Dr.
Sri.
What a shout-out so far.
But I remember him hittinghitting us with this reflection

(20:13):
about how our lives, ourresponse or lack thereof to the
to the divine, how this is stillshaping both our lives and re
and reality, but but reality asa whole for everyone that this
is still really significant.
And it's so easy to just getlost in like just this story.
Yeah, there's the shepherds orwhatever.
Those scumbags are hanging outat the bottom of a mountain or

(20:35):
whatever, and they heard theyheard this.
Look into that.
That's an interesting, that's aninteresting thing too.
The lowest of the low, theshepherds were.
And sometimes I feel the sameway, right?
These beautiful things arebestowed upon me, and I just
I've heard it a hundred times.
And that includes Advent too.
Yeah, I've heard it a hundredtimes, but what am I missing?

(20:57):
How much incredibletransformation is there if I
just change my disposition?
And again, parallels healing.
But I also can't help to thinkabout the fact that all this was
unfolding in history.
It's not any different than itis now.
Like families were in conflict,nations were falling and rising,
life was busy, just in adifferent way.

(21:20):
Probably blindingly overwhelmingto people.
And yet in the background, Godwas working and preparing and
reaching out to humanity in themost intimate of ways.
We're teasing a little bit onthe incarnation here pretty
heavily, and we'll talk moreabout that in our upcoming
episode.
But a little bit just to teaseyou a little farther, right?
Humanity is designed for aprocess of maturation.

(21:43):
The more we get to know Christ,the more we get to know
ourselves.
The more time we spend, the moreactual, let's just say, progress
we make.
I mean, even Christ spends aconsiderable amount of time
before entering into hisministry.
And so I really think that thisidea of honoring that and
honoring the fact that thingsjust need to unfold, but they

(22:04):
also require something of us.
Something like what we've talkedabout in the past.
It's like we want to acknowledgeour pain, we want to acknowledge
these things, but we don't wantto divest ourselves of the
responsibility.
We don't want to divestourselves of the opportunity to
to give and receive and properlyact in love.
And that is so essential to thehealing process.

(22:27):
It's just so easy to lose sightof that because whichever side
of the culture you're on, orwhichever side of 50 or 40 or
whatever you're on, right, therecan be a really different
perspective on mental health.
But you know what?
Mental health is spiritualhealth.
There isn't anything, anymovement of the mind that isn't
spiritual, and there isn't anyspiritual movement that isn't

(22:48):
psychological.
It's not just for Gen Zers.
It's not just for someone whojust lost a loved one.
You know, the word trauma isn'tjust for someone looking to get
attention.
It's for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Yeah, and I think, like we've already said, it's
really easy to find yourself ina position of anxious waiting,
like wanting, being frustratedeven that that how am I still
suffering?
How like does God see me?
Does he hear me?
Is he coming?
Like wanting to find healingalready, you know, wanting that
magic button, wanting it all tojust go away.

(23:23):
And I think that this period ofAdvent, you know, gives us,
again, those eyes to see thatGod actually loves you more than
that.
That feels hard to say.
And I think that there areperiods of, you know, real
suffering that like I want tohonor hearing that feels hard.
How could I be, you know, howcould God love me and keep me in
this suffering?

(23:43):
But the truth is, you know, hewants you to have the
opportunity to prepare yourheart, to prepare your mind, to
prepare your body, to prepareyour spirit to actually be able
to receive the goodness that hedoes have in store for you.
The thing that it is you arewaiting for, you know, we don't
know what that looks like orwhen it's going to come, but he

(24:03):
wants to enter into all of thoseplaces that have been wounded,
all of those places that arestill in darkness.
And he wants to bring all ofthem into the light.
So all of you can actually enterinto that Christmas season, can
actually enter into thathealing.
And we're struck by some of thestories around the nativity and

(24:25):
the age, you know, the the agethat some of these people, you
know, were when Christ finallyentered into their life, when
they finally had that ahamoment, that healing moment.
So we kind of want to shout outto some of those who might find
themselves in the second half oftheir life listening to us here
today.

SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Yeah, so I I think of how many times we hear this
um very understandable, veryreasonably wounded reaction,
sort of thing where, well, I'mthis amount of years old.
At this point, I am who I am.
What's the point of even tryingto heal?
And you know what?
I can relate to that because Iremember even thinking that at

(25:03):
24.
There's just no there's noturning this ship around, man.
It's just going how it's going.
Too late.
I should have gotten, I shouldhave gotten it right at 18 or
whatever.
And like I said, the nextepisode is about the
incarnation, so we'll talk evenmore about the body and the
significance of it at any age.
But if you're older, if you havethese these feelings that maybe

(25:23):
things aren't how they shouldbe, you're experiencing
something profound or that someof this moves you.
I also encourage people to lookat how much the Lord has
respected your freedom and yourwill.
And yet you've had and continueto have all the time of your
lifespan to align yourself tothe Lord, but also to see and

(25:43):
recognize where the pain is.
And you've also seen and you'veexperienced more.
You've seen people change, youhave absolutely seen cultural
changes.
It's also easy to lose hope andfeel like you're just on the
outside of it.
And yeah, like God allows it allfor better or worse, but never,
never violates our will.
And I think it's easy to losehope and get frustrated.

But I will tell you this (26:06):
if we're dining out fancy at some
nice Italian place, and I'mlooking at the menu, and all of
a sudden the Lord were to justforce me to order the pasta
primavera or whatever, I wouldlose my mind.
I don't want a God like that.
I can't, I can't live in a worldlike that where I can't choose
what I eat.
My free will.
I mean, it mat it matters evenat just that most granular,

(26:30):
silly level.
Again, I'm here to introduce alittle bit of levity, but God
really respects our freedom, forbetter or worse, for us.
And I also just think about howAdvent happens every year.
It's meant to be re-experienced.
We're meant to be reminded ofthe Lord's approach toward us
and that reminder that intimacyis a gift for every one of us,

(26:52):
every year, every day.
And we have that opportunity torealign ourselves with that deep
love every single year.
And even like that soccer andballet reminder, right?
As that skill and that musclegrows, it isn't just relegated
to the Advent season.
It just becomes deeper and moreprofound.
If this wasn't for each of us asindividuals, if it wasn't for us
to heal and grow continuously,you know, maybe Advent would be

(27:16):
just for the young, or somethingthat only needed to be
celebrated one time.
I think about that oft-utteredphrase, right?
Ah, the Christmas magic justain't there without the kids.
And granted, there is somethingamazing and beautiful about the
excitement and the gifts.
There is definitely somethingthere.
But I also have just experiencedsuch a sadness at that.

(27:38):
Like, oh, it's just whatever,it's just the day now.
What a tragedy.
Just so sad.
But you know, you think of theyou think of the biblical
reality and the and the story ofAdvent, all of it.
Like God is a part of people'slives no matter what.
And they experience miracles nomatter the age.
Sarah and Abraham, Simeonmeeting Christ at the end of his

(27:59):
life and being able to die ahappy man.
The life of waiting is notwasted.
And meeting Christ and findinghealing at the end of life is
doesn't discount anything.
In fact, it just adds more gloryto it.
You know, God fulfills hispromises at the right time, not
at the speed of light.
And there's also somethingreally true about recognizing

(28:20):
Christ requires interiorpreparation and skill and time
and patience.
And who better disposed to dothat than people who have
acquired a little bit ofexperience?
We just uh, in whatever thatthat advent box is called,
right, we just um unboxedZechariah, who's giving
Elizabeth a break by not beingable to talk.

(28:42):
What a thrill.
And then Elizabeth finds outthat they're gonna have a baby.
John the Baptist is gonna showup, eating locusts and honey.
I don't know how much they wouldhave liked that.
And Anna and the Anna the widowis at least somewhere in her 80s
when she encounters Christ.
And then I man, I just couldkeep going, right?

(29:04):
Jacob became Israel as an olderman, not a young buck.
He didn't throw his hip outbecause he was old, he threw his
hip out because he was an olderman, but still wrestling with
God.
I'm sorry, that one wasn't a uhan advent-themed example, but I
just, you know, I just I justwant to preach it like I feel
it.

SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Yeah, but it's so true.
Like I think there are so manyexamples from scripture that
tell us like God isn't comingjust for the young and able, you
know, he's coming for all of us.
And I think, yeah, Adrian, whatyou said there's is so true and
so beautiful.
I haven't thought about that.
You know, people think Christmasis just for the kids.
And goodness, yes, it is such ajoy to see their faces light up,

(29:48):
but shouldn't mine, you know, Ithink I'm like struck by that.
Like, shouldn't my face light upwith the same amount of joy
realizing the promise of thedeepest longing of my heart has
been fulfilled.
You know, kids open the gift,they're like, oh my gosh, it's
what I always wanted.

(30:09):
It's like, oh what?
Like, Jesus is what I alwayswanted, and He came, and He's
mine and He's yours.
And wow, you know, the momentswhen we're actually able to feel
that and and embody that.
What if we could do that all ofthe time?

(30:29):
And I think preparing ourhearts, preparing our minds as
if, you know, taking the se theseason of Advent seriously is is
how we can actually openourselves up to that
possibility.
And so I think even in our work,you know, as mentors, you know,
when we do work with people inthe second half of life, you
know, it's really incredible.

(30:49):
We're so honored to be a partof, you know, really what is a
countercultural movement thatsays, like, hey, you actually
mean something.
You actually matter.
Your life, your health, yourwell-being, your ability to be
present and real and show up inlife and in your relationships
matters.

(31:10):
You know, this work that canrestore your dignity as an elder
rather than relegate you to aposition that just views you as
not valuable.
There's a lot of woundedness inour culture, I think, around
that.
And I I love being able to be apart of a process in in their
lives to say, like, actually,no, you still matter.

(31:31):
You still have so much to offer.

SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
And no doubt Shay absolutely gets it because in
our marriage, I consistentlyjoke around that she's basically
a 65-year-old woman.
So this is particularly close toher heart.
Um, but in but in in allsincerity, she does enjoy
working with the elderly, and umI think it has a special place
for them in her heart.

SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Adrienne's quite a jokester today.

SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
Okay, but I definitely don't want to just
keep talking about other peopleteasing Shay for her foibles.
Yeah, we definitely want to talkabout this idea of waiting in
our own healing process.
And so sharing just a little bitof mine.
Back in the day, I had a um amental health-related event and
ended up being hospitalized.

(32:19):
I do remember the very surrealprocess of moving past it and
kind of encountering life justas regular life afterwards.
And one thing that really stuckwith me is speaking to someone,
um, like a mental healthadvocate at my campus, was very
clearly concerned for me andvery very direct in what he was

(32:40):
saying.
And he did tell me, like, thisis really hard.
You're going through something,but I have to tell you, and you
need to understand that timeisn't gonna fix this.
You gotta take care of yourself.
And you know what?
I hurt him, I tookresponsibility for my mental
health, and within a year,everything was better.
Just kidding, I didn't at allabsolutely hurt him, and I

(33:03):
absolutely did not listen, and Iabsolutely survived.
A lot of time, a lot ofdistance, lots of new
adventures, um, lots ofdistractions, and a whole lot of
um papering over the cracks.
But I got pretty good atsurviving, and I got really good
at not touching anything ordoing anything different where I

(33:26):
would encounter what was deeperinside of me.
That was just not something Iwas willing, and probably to be
more merciful to those parts ofmyself, not not something that I
really knew how to do.
But I tried to play the game asmuch as I could.
You know, I I tried therapy forthe first time, probably in my
mid-30s, maybe early 20s, orlate 20s, sorry.

(33:49):
And I definitely went into itwith a sense of, okay, I have to
just try this, even if I just tomy own self or to the people in
my family who just say, Yeah, Idid it, you know, I got that
monkey off my back, and so guesswhat?
It went nowhere, right?
Um not much of an effort, notmuch of a follow-up, not much
engagement.
And it's very possible also thatI just wasn't reached either.

(34:13):
And so I think there is thissort of unspoken belief though,
right, that if we push or forcea change, nothing will happen.
And I do think that there was anaspect of that, some of that
approach.
You have to do something aboutit.
Um there was definite concernfor me, but there was definitely
this idea that I had that thisthis the onus was completely on

(34:36):
me.
And so I just took it in adifferent direction.
You know, I just took it througha place of, okay, all right,
well, if the onus is on me, thenI'll just muscle through.
Um, I'll find things to do.
If I make more money, thingswill figure themselves out.
And maybe if I study and get amaster's in theology, then
things will straightenthemselves out.
I'll change careers, then thingswill straighten themselves out.

(34:58):
I'll do something meaningful,and things will just take care
of themselves.
And it just never quite wasthere.
Like absolutely, especially nowI know that the Lord was
reaching out to me andabsolutely respecting my
freedom, but I was just reallylocked in.
I was locked into this kind ofmixed sense of rational, very
male thinking, the the good andthe bad side of it.

(35:21):
Uh I definitely had a uh had asense of fatalism, not quite um
delirious Russian author, butbut definitely had that sense.
Uh and people said caring thingsto me, and there were people who
meant well, and there werepeople who really loved me.
But I didn't have a whole lot ofexperience in in accepting those
things well.

(35:43):
Um let alone really allowingmyself to hear them.
And you know, that kind oflearning was unfamiliar, and I
never really quite let myselfget close enough to that point
of vulnerability.
So you know, how the heck was Isupposed to receive it?
And so yeah, if I felt controlslipping, it was time to get out
of a relationship.

(36:04):
Uh and if I uh felt the need to,you know, be be close to
someone, well then, you know,scratch the itch and jump into
another one.
And if I felt some level ofwanderlust or or restlessness,
then I'd I'd, you know, pick upa new hobby, do a triathlon,
whatever it is.
But whenever that sense ofreally encountering something
close, really getting into thatsense of vulnerability, uh, even

(36:29):
you know, even letting God in,right, that just wasn't
happening.
Somewhat between my resistanceand also because of my lack of
comfort and lack of capacity.
And yet all the while therewere.
I was making the smallest ofmoves toward God.
And I actually would want tocorrect that and say I was
actually responding very slowlyto God's constant desire to be

(36:53):
near me.
And so I felt inklings, right?
And I do think there issomething, there was something
very, I don't know what the gradschool term is for advent-like,
but let's just settle onadvent-like.
There was something veryadvent-like in that.
God was still acting, God wasstill doing something, and I was
just doing what I could insurviving.
And it really wasn't untilmarriage that I really began to

(37:16):
experience that that true senseof accompaniment and a really
steady tethering an experienceof like what it meant to be seen
to be safe.
Such an unmistakable sense of uhsafety in that commitment of
forever.
And yeah, sometimes it feelslike there's a threat of losing

(37:38):
your liberty, right?
But you also know that you'vegot someone who will always be
there, who will always wait andalways support you.
What a beautiful model ofsomething spiritually so real,
but also something physical andtangible that that makes you
feel safe.

(37:58):
And it makes waiting and thatslow, steady change that the
Lord offers us, right?
And experience in an embodiedfashion through another.
And that's been a large part ofmy experience, and I think it's
probably been that way for bothof us in a in various fashions.

SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
Yeah, I think you're touching on something really
true, you know, that so much ofour life, especially after we've
been wounded, it makes sense tobe turned outwards, to be
vigilant for threats, to bevigilant for what else might
hurt us, to to be protectingourselves in that way.
That the very idea of, you know,what Advent is proposing to us,

(38:41):
which is to turn inward, to lookat the dark places, to to slow
down, to be curious, to prepare.
Like that feels so risky becausewho then is looking outward for
any threats that might come yourway?
Who then is being vigilant foryou on your behalf?

(39:02):
Right.
So the idea, you know, thatyou're that your the mental
health advocate at your collegeproposed is like, yeah, like I'm
not surprised at all that inthat at that time in your life,
you're like, uh no, dude.
I am like, I'm the only onelooking out for me.
I can't, I can't risk turninginward.
I can't risk taking away my ownprotection and my own safety

(39:25):
that I've created for myself.
And I think that that's the casefor, I mean, I know that that
was the case for me and myhealing.
And I, and I think too, youknow, what you're saying about
marriage, like the the beauty ofhaving the safety of a
relationship where you're like,oh, actually, I can turn inward.
It is safe.

(39:45):
I can, I do have somebody else,you know, that's for me.
I have somebody else that's onmy team.
Like there's a very real person,a real face in front of you
that's that's providing thatsense of safety for you.
And I know that that isn't, thatisn't always.
The case for everyone, and thatisn't always the case, even in
our own marriage.
There are times when we when ourour wounds and our our

(40:08):
protective parts act againsteach other, and we experience
again that sense of like, oh, Ihave to protect myself.
But I do think, like, little bylittle, as you open yourself up
to safety in relationship, asyou find somebody who's safe for
you, you experience somethingnew, and you develop the courage

(40:28):
to do something new.
And you realize there's space tohope for something better.
And you fail daily, but you growdaily and you realize that
change and redemption actuallyhappen in a much different
rhythm than you might haveanticipated or thought it would

(40:50):
look.
And really, like everythingchanges, you know, scripture
starts changing, it takes on amore meaningful and true
context.
It actually like it meanssomething in your life.
It isn't just this story, likepie in the sky story.
It actually is a tangible thingthat that colors that starts to
color and take shape in your ownstory and your own experiences.

(41:12):
And I think you'll hear us sayit a million times, but this can
only happen in the context of arelationship of Christ coming in
the choosing the incarnationepisode, but of Christ coming
incarnate, you know, in the faceof another person.
And I think, okay, practicallythat's all it's all nice and

(41:33):
true in the long term, in themore abstract reality of married
life.
But I think it's also importantto realize, like in the early
days of our marriage, or even asI said, like even still, you
know, when we're in the trenchesof sleep deprivation, like we
are now, and back injuries andpodcasting and all of the things
that you know we've got going onin our life.

(41:54):
Marriage, and I think allrelationships, you know, if
you're entering into them withintention, they have this way of
exposing you.
Exposing the ways that you'reimperfect, the ways that you
have yet to learn and understandabout life and love and
holiness.
And all of a sudden, yourexperiences cease to be the only

(42:17):
thing from which you can measureand understand what life means
and where you're headed.
Having somebody else witnesslike what is possible and what
life could be is simultaneouslybeautiful and extremely painful
because it reveals to you thishope that maybe like somewhere
deep in your heart you've alwayswanted to know is true, that

(42:39):
something else is possible,right alongside this proposal to
have to do the hard work, tochoose to do the hard work of
unlearning and relearning acompletely new way of being and
operating in life andunderstanding relationships and
understanding yourself.
Marriage and relationshipssurface all of these wounds that

(43:00):
you've gotten so good at keepingunder wraps.
All of these experiences andstories and narratives about
yourself that you've learned tothat you've shaped other stories
around, you know, that you'vemade look pretty and you've they
you've made it make sense inyour life and in the way that
you understand yourself and talkabout yourself.

(43:21):
And this provides you, you know,relationship provides you an
opportunity to do somethingabout them, to allow them to be
transformed, or to stuff themdown and allow them to continue
festering.
My marriage to Adrian, you know,I have had the opportunity to
choose to wait actively in theface of, you know, my own

(43:43):
woundedness, my brokenness, myimperfections, and participate
in the slow work of taking up,you know, this peaceful sense of
responsibility for my ownhealing, or I can wait passively
and put all of theresponsibility for my healing on
those who I think have hurt meor who have hurt me.

(44:03):
Let's be let's be real.
Like I people have hurt me, andI I can wait for them to own up
to it, to say sorry, to to makeamends.
I could do that.
And I think there are still manyways and many parts of me that
that do.
And I, you know, I pray for Ipray for those parts of me.
I pray that they can see thelight and the beauty and the

(44:25):
goodness of of being able totake ownership and
responsibility for who I'mbecoming and who God has created
me to be.
I don't want to, you know, saythat this is that this sort of
hope for you know recognizingthese things can only be can
only happen in marriage.
I think this can happen in allrelationships, and it does very
much so for me.

(44:46):
And my relationship with my withmy mentor and friends and family
members and my spouse, yes.
My children, yes.
All of these relationshipsreveal the parts of me that the
darker parts of me that needthat I need to turn towards and

(45:06):
enter into.
And ultimately, I think, youknow, what what I realized, what
we've realized, and you know,what we hope you will realize
too, is that it isn't actuallytrue that you know, if we don't
find a way to fix it immediatelyor stuff it down or act like it
didn't happen or create adifferent story around it, that

(45:28):
everything would just fallapart, you know, that we we
wouldn't be happy or we couldn'tactually live life.
But that actually healing andtransformation happens in this
slow hidden interior workthrough the willingness to be
obedient to just showing upevery day, unafraid of taking

(45:52):
seriously and facing yourwoundedness, your imperfection,
your brokenness, the way thatyou can be ugly in relationship
with your spouse, your family,or your dog.
I don't know.
Um, but just entering into thatand not being afraid that it's
something you need to hide orsomething you need to get rid

(46:12):
of, but realizing like that'sthat's the place that Christ
wants to bring, that's the darkplace that Christ wants to bring
the light to.

SPEAKER_01 (46:21):
And you know, as Shay says that I really think of
when she mentioned family, uhthe first place my mind goes is
actually kids.
Right now, the stage of lifethat we're in, we have young
kids.
And young kids have a beautifulcapacity of discovering new
behaviors.
They also have a beautifulcapacity of helping you discover

(46:45):
old wounds, perhaps oldbehaviors in yourself that you
thought were long gone, andreactions that you didn't think
you had in you anymore becauseyou dealt with them.
And it turns out nope, that'sstill in there.
And there is this desperation,and I have encountered it with
people that I've worked with,and I've also worked with

(47:06):
myself, and I've encountered itwithin my own self, that you
have this feeling of, oh mygosh, this is never gonna
change.
My kid's never going to stopdoing this, and I'll never be
able to deal with it.
Like, I got it, I gotta stop itright now.
I gotta nip it in the bud.
I've got to find the nexttechnique, I've got to watch the

(47:26):
next.
Sorry, my wife has to watch thenext Instagram videos about
parenting and find and find outhow to like deal with this
thing.
Otherwise, what's gonna happenin the future?
And really, as she was saying,it struck me as like, oh, okay,
Advent is let's try Adventine.
That Adventine approach, I don'tknow if that's right, it feels
right, is so helpful to that.

(47:48):
And again, like we've all beenchildren, we see children all
the time.
We know that nothing lastsforever, no behavior lasts
forever, but man, oh man, in themoment, it feels like it will.
And on some days as parents,like we really screw it up and
we underdo it or we overdo it,usually overdo it, right?
And then we come down hard onourselves.

(48:08):
Well, now what?
But this urge to just fix itright away on your own is so
strong.
The urge to punish yourself orjust to think that that all of
this is on you is so strong, andyet it's so frustrating, even
when I think of the people thatI work with.
It's so frustrating sometimes tohear, like, no, no, no, like you
showing up every day with thathope and that confidence that

(48:32):
something better is coming, thaton the horizon there is a new
thing, that this will end, andsomething good is possible.
That's actually the key.
Not just to getting like notjust to getting through it, but
to actually find find those waysthat actually work and provide
trust and love andreconciliation.

(48:53):
And it can be so hard on bothsides of it.
It's something that weexperience and it's something
that we walk people through allthe time.
But there's something reallybeautiful in that quiet
confidence and that dispositionof hoping for something new.
Alright, guys, well, before weleave you, we want to offer a
little something practical, alittle something that you can

(49:16):
put into your stocking, open upa little early, no one will
know, um, on the right track,and wrap your head around this
idea of what waiting is and whatit's not and how it can help us.

SPEAKER_00 (49:30):
Yes, so here is your little early stocking stuffer.
I think it's important tounderstand, especially in
healing, it can it can often beconfusing.
Okay, like what am I waitingfor?
What does that look like?
So we want to give you somethingpractical.
We've been talking a lot about,you know, what is advent?
What is waiting?
What does that look like in ourlife?

(49:51):
But what can you take home?
What can you take away fromthis?
So I think waiting can often bemisconstrued.
Am I just sitting around andallowing myself to not strive
for virtue?
Am I just sitting around andallowing abuse to happen to me?
And we want to be really clearthat what we're talking about

(50:13):
again, like we've said a lot sofar in the podcast, is we want
to embody an active form ofwaiting, not a passive form of
waiting.
What we understand waiting is,is waiting is an active trust.
It is faith in the process.
It is a belief that God isoperating even when we don't see

(50:36):
it.
When we keep our gaze on him andwe continue walking towards him
and pursuing him, things willtransform.
When we are inviting grace intoour lives, things will change.
Waiting is staying attuned toyour own interior life,
maintaining an awareness of whathurts you, what excites you,

(50:59):
what makes you anxious, anddoing the work of discovering
what you need in those momentsto heal, to open yourself up to
joy, to open yourself up togratitude, to find relief from
the pain, relief from theanxiety.
Waiting is letting grace work inthe places you can't see.

(51:23):
Being attuned to your owninterior life, but not
understanding what to do, youknow, inviting God in.
He knows what to do, he knowsyou better than you know
yourself.
Allow grace to work in theseplaces that you don't
understand, that you can't see,and you don't know what to do
with.
Waiting is staying engagedwithout grasping or forcing
outcomes.

(51:43):
Can you persevere without tryingto change or force anything
that's outside of your control?
But again, maintain that stanceand that posture of looking
inward and recognizing what isin your control.
And waiting is holding hopewithout trying to control
timelines.
It's so understandable for youto want healing to happen now,

(52:06):
for you to want peace to happennow, for you to want repair and
forgiveness and an apology andunderstanding to happen even
yesterday.
That's all understandable.
Waiting well is holding on tohope that there is a good that
is in store for you, even if wedon't know when that's going to

(52:27):
come.
What waiting is not, waiting isnot, and this is really
important.
Waiting is not enduring abuse,it is not allowing harm to
continue occurring and happeningto you.
Waiting is not staying inharmful patterns without
boundaries.
Waiting is not minimizing realharm for the sake of keeping

(52:51):
everyone around you happy andnot rocking the boat.
Waiting is not assuming thattime alone will heal the wounds.
And waiting is not putting yourhumanity, your dignity, your
worth on pause for someone else.
We want to really, really drivethat home.
You know, we would never want topromote any sort of continued

(53:15):
harm and abuse to happen to you.
You know, if if what you'reexperiencing in your family is
is abusive, is harmful, we wantto give you the tools to wait
well, not to wait passively, notto wait without any forward
movement, without any action, orwith continued harm, especially.

SPEAKER_01 (53:35):
So what I'd like to summarize here and give a
personal example is the thatit's really hard and that it
takes work to just wrap yourhead around what you're doing
and how you've been doingthings.
Because it's really challenging,particularly in the current
climate, to discern betweenokay, well, what is harm?
Is harm to someone doingsomething I don't like?

(53:55):
Some people can define it thatway.
Is discomfort the same as harm?
Probably not, and that requiressome thought.
You know, in my personalexample, one of the things that
I I really have taken away isthat I've also been very
impatient with myself and verywilling to spiritualize certain
dysfunctions, certain ways ofbeing in relationship with

(54:18):
someone close to me, and doingthat very typical
over-spiritualization thinglike, oh yeah, well, the Lord
suffered.
I I need to suffer too.
Like I need to be miserable, Ineed to just get over it.
I need to just keep showing up,even if that means that it's
unbearable to me.
And you know, in some ways, alot of those things that I did

(54:40):
were very harmful both to me andto the relationship that I kept
showing up for, but didn't doanything differently in.
And it didn't help anyone.
It didn't help me, and it didn'thelp the other person.
And it took a lot of time, ittook a lot of work to get all
these things out there, to spillthem all out, and realize that

(55:02):
oh my gosh, I had this giantmess of a thing.
You know, a lot of times we talkabout these traumatic incidents
and a relationship that it hasso many of them in it.
It's like having these filefolders, right?
And these file folders have thedetails of certain events and
the way that you relate all inthem.
And the ones that constantlycause you to be hurt and

(55:26):
insecure and dealing withwhatever level of trauma, those
folders are just some of themare really out of order, and
other ones are like literallyjust scattered along the floor.
And so many times when you'retrying to do so much of this on
your own or just waiting thingsout, you really don't know what
you're doing.
And if you find yourself in thisplace right now where you really

(55:47):
don't know what you're doing, oryou're starting to maybe realize
that you've done some thingswrong, you need so much mercy
and you need someone to helpyou.
And you also need someone tohelp you particularly to get to
a point where you can bemerciful toward yourself and
realize how misguided you were.
I spent so much time justescaping, surviving, avoiding,

(56:14):
even when I was present, likephysically present in the
relationship, because I thoughtI just have to do it that way.
And then realizing how manythings, like how many years have
passed where I could have beendoing this so much better, where
I could have done, I could havedone this work with trust in
God, with practical things, withguidance.

(56:37):
And I just spent all these yearsdisconnected from the other
person, disconnected frommyself, disconnected from the
Lord, and just passive, and justdesperately trying to hold some
level of control and security inthe relationship.
My hope for you, both thisAdvent season and in the span of

(56:59):
your life is that you learn thatthis takes time and that we need
help in order to resolve that.
But once we do, there can be somuch relief and the waiting and
the the being present to thatsense of imperfection in you and
in the other or other people orpeople in your family that

(57:21):
you're struggling with.
It's possible, it's manageable,it's possible to have moments of
joy, it's possible to be hopefuland still be uncomfortable.
And so that's that's kind of aguiding principle behind this
path of the third way.

SPEAKER_00 (57:38):
Yeah, so overall, you know, we would say that in
Christian Catholic anthropologyand understanding patience and
waiting doesn't mean toleratingsin or dysfunction.
What it means is trusting thattransformation happens through

(57:59):
cooperation with relationshipand with grace, not through
self-reliance, coercion, orforce.
And I think there are two sortsof extremes that we see often in
our work and even in ourselvesat times, which is this passive

(58:20):
waiting that we've been talkingabout.
If I just ignore it for longenough, eventually it will just
go away.
Eventually they'll change.
Eventually, you know, it won'thurt anymore.
Kind of this magical thinkingthat we all tend towards, you
know, when we we have parts thatare just so hurt and so
desperate for something that wedon't know, we don't know how to

(58:41):
achieve and we don't know how toget.
And then we also see this otherextreme, you know, which is this
sort of desperate control isoften disguised as waiting.
And this looks like if I justsay the exact right perfect
thing, or if I try really hardto be exactly what this person
needs me to be, then maybe itcan make everything better,

(59:03):
right?
If we're if I just get them tosee the thing that they need to
see, if I just get them tounderstand, if I can just keep
coming at them, keep, you know,and it's not even like this,
it's not even born out of adesire to attack anyone or to to
come at them, you know, like Ijust said, it's more born at the
out of this, this desperate needto find relief, to find resolve.
And if I just get them to see,if I just get them to

(59:25):
understand, maybe theneverything will be better.
So there's like this anxiouswaiting, and there's this
passive waiting.
The place where you actuallyfind freedom, where you actually
find healing, where you actuallyfind relief, it is somewhere in
the middle of those two things,you know, where you are acting,
you are participating, you aretaking up your responsibility,

(59:45):
not in a desperate, forceful,controlling way, and not in a
passive, we'll see what happenssomeday kind of way either.
This sort of waiting requires usto show up with clarity and with
boundaries.
With compassion and show up withall of those things
consistently, rooted in anunderstanding of who we are,

(01:00:07):
rooted in an understanding ofour dignity and our worth, all
while letting God unfold theoutcome outside of ourselves
that we can't actually makehappen ourselves.
The last point we want to makehere is like, what's actually
worth waiting for?
You know, you might be in asituation and wondering, like,
is this ever gonna change?
Like, what's the point offocusing on this?

(01:00:29):
What's the point of thinkingabout this anymore?
Like, what am I actually waitingfor if nothing is gonna change?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:34):
Right.
So some of the things that youcan really be looking for, what
is possible, so that you evenhave just signposts or little
little points of success andeven the failure, what to look
for, right?
Are you experiencing any kind ofmaturity?
Are you seeing things a littlebit differently?
Are you also willing to holdthis dynamic of I can fail and

(01:00:56):
be okay, I can succeed and beokay?
And both of these things arejust a natural part of being
human, of being me.
It's worth waiting for asemblance of interior freedom.
And at first it's a semblance,maybe just a scrap, but these
things grow.
You also can't reallyacknowledge whether you're

(01:01:17):
experiencing interior freedom ifyou never look into your
interiority, and that is a scaryplace.
But that is worth going to, it'sworth waiting for the healing of
your nervous system.
And the nervous system getshealed as you actually face and
address things and learn andhave someone to guide you and

(01:01:39):
practice with and to console youand to see you.
All that only happens if youactually engage.
It's worth waiting for parts ofrelationships that hold a lot of
pain, or as I have experienced alot in my in my own heart, like
a lot of hardening, a lot ofplaces where you're just not

(01:01:59):
even willing to go, where youjust have some experiences or
some pain, someone saidsomething to you.
You build a wall around that andyou just keep living.
Every now and then you bump upagainst it, you get hurt, you
get uncomfortable, but you justit's just not there.
It is worth hoping and waitingfor at those places to

(01:02:19):
eventually break through.
If they don't go away ever, theycertainly will soften.
That is worth waiting for.
It's also worth waiting forbreakthroughs or consolation,
even if they're followed, oreven what leads up to them is
this long, boring slog offaithfulness.
Whether that be prayer, uhjournaling, reflection, uh

(01:02:44):
spiritual exercise, whatever itis.
Or you know what, even if it isjust showing up as long as it's
appropriate to a relationshipthat is uncomfortable, it is
worth waiting for that.
And lastly, I really can'tattest to this personally too.
It is worth waiting for grace tounfold in people around you.

(01:03:05):
You'll be surprised by it andyou'll have joy over it, but at
the same time, you'll also havethis sense of like, yeah, of
course.
Of course, this was going tohappen.
You're grateful.
And that is worth waiting for.
You know, what's not worthwaiting for is for someone to
just magically change withoutaccountability.

(01:03:25):
There are things relationallythat you do that I do.
It still takes some, you know,ging up of myself in order to be
somewhat confrontational,sincerely confrontational, not
like sharp, not passiveaggressive, not mean or uh, you
know, say the thing that needsneeds to be said, but like in a

(01:03:46):
joke.
Not that.
But genuine confrontation andstatement of of how you feel.
That, to me, sometimes stillfeels like, you know what, I'd
rather jump out of the fourthfloor of a building and take my
chances.
I would much rather and w sowhat?
What what's a broken ankle inthe grand scheme of things?
It's not worth waiting for forsomeone to just change without

(01:04:06):
you doing anything, withoutholding someone accountable, or
even giving them the mercy andtheir their very real due of
saying, hey, this is hurting me.
It's amazing how many of usthink that we should never have
to say that.
That's not worth waiting for.
There's something you can do.
It's not worth waiting for inthe same vein, harm to stop

(01:04:27):
without intervention.
It won't go away on its own.
It's not worth waiting forthings that are chaotic to
resolve themselves withoutfighting for some level of
clarity.
It's not worth waiting for forsomeone to suddenly become the
person that you wish they were.
And man, those of us who havefamily, how much is that the

(01:04:48):
case when we hear and or we say?
We say this is about people inour own families.
If only they were.
If only they would.
If only they got it.
I certainly have said it.
It's not worth waiting for.
And it's also not worth waitingfor to receive permission or to
even give yourself permission tohonor your limits.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:08):
I really want to highlight how hard these things
that you've just been sayingare, actually, Adrian.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:15):
You know, I think it's easy to speak to these
things, but to actually livethem out, to not spend your days
waiting for somebody to becomethe person you wish they were,
to hope that somebody would seeyour pain and give you
permission to actually givevoice to it.
I think it's reallyunderstandable to want those
things.
I think it's reallyunderstandable to have parts of

(01:05:35):
you that are waiting for thosethings to happen, you know,
waiting for somebody, somethingto intervene, to come in, to
swoop in and protect you andpull you out of this painful
relationship, this harmfulpattern, this suffering.
And it's been, you know, evenpersonally for me, it's been a

(01:05:55):
journey.
And I think even as you weretalking about what's worth
waiting for, the long boringfaithfulness.
I was really struck by that.
Part of that isn't, it isn'tjust like the spirituality
piece, but the long-boringfaithfulness to this work of
healing.
It's rarely a mountaintopexperience.

(01:06:18):
It is a slog, it is often adrudgery, but it is also
beautiful when you find yourselfable to look out and see the
vista.
You know, it's like to see whatyou've overcome, to see what
you've done, to see what liesahead for you.
But it's hard.
Yeah, I think I personally havehad a lot of different

(01:06:40):
experiences, but most recently,um, I had a really hard
conversation with somebody thatI love.
And it took a tremendous amountof courage to to really speak to
those parts of me that have justbeen holding on to that hope
that the this other person, youknow, would just change.

(01:07:00):
This other person would justsee, and I wouldn't have to do
anything, you know, that Iwouldn't have to step up and and
honor my own needs and my ownheart.
I think that in the Christian,again, the Christian Catholic
anthropology, we're taught thatdignity is not something we wait
to reclaim.

(01:07:21):
We have our dignity at alltimes.
But what takes time is actuallyletting your heart learn how to
live from that dignity.
And so in having this hardconversation, I realized, you
know, I had a choice point.
Like, am I going to live out ofmy dignity or am I not?
You know, am I going to continueto live out of a pattern that I

(01:07:42):
learned of waiting for theseother people in my life to
reveal to me my dignity whenthat's already been something
that's been revealed to me.
And I made the choice to say thehard thing, to set the boundary.
And it was actually incrediblewhen I said this from a place of
knowing my dignity and worth, Ididn't get the backlash of

(01:08:02):
internal guilt and turmoil overwhat have I done?
Why did I do this?
I felt secure, and that wasshocking to me.
But it was beautiful, you know,because me setting a boundary
that was rooted just in myknowledge of my own dignity and
the dignity of the other person,I didn't say anything mean.
I didn't say anything cruel.

(01:08:23):
I didn't say anything judgmentalor critical.
I was able to say what needed tobe said from a place where I
felt sure that it was comingfrom love and it was leading
toward love.
And I'm not sure that I couldhave done that five years ago.
I'm not even sure I could havedone that one year ago, if I'm
being completely honest.

(01:08:43):
And so I I say that because Ithink it's important to really
hone in on like, it doesn't taketime to to find our dignity, to
understand our dignity.
It takes time to learn how tolive from the dignity that we've
always had that's given to usjust from the very fact that God
chose us, that we exist.
Yeah, my hope is that for all ofyou listening, that is something

(01:09:07):
that you can live into too.
And I also want to speak to thefact that I I couldn't have
possibly, well, I can't, I can'tsay that anything is possible
with the Lord and the HolySpirit works in mysterious ways.
But the process of me learninghow to live from that dignity
was surely expedited by the veryfact that I have opened myself
up to receive love inrelationships that are safe,

(01:09:31):
relationships that respect andhonor my dignity and my worth,
and teach me to respect andhonor my own dignity and worth
and how to live out of that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:43):
I want to acknowledge right away that
there is a there's a lot oflanguage in there that might
seem overwhelming, unfamiliar topeople, which I think is its own
small tragedy.
But there also may be somethingfamiliar and very relevant to
your life.
I know because I live in thesame house, sleep in the same

(01:10:03):
bed, I know that it takes work.
But I also know that this workhappened, it didn't happen in a
vacuum, it happened with goodguidance, it happened with a
grade A husband, good lookingone too.
But above all else, it took alot of fidelity, it took a lot

(01:10:24):
of guidance, it took a lot ofsupport, and it took a lot of
work, and it took a lot ofwaiting.
Good quality, appropriatewaiting.
So if you feel like this kind ofwaiting is something that is
worth doing, but you want somehelp, as a reminder, we do offer
mentorship, and that kind ofsupport can also be yours to be

(01:10:45):
had, and we'd love to help andtalk and get to know you in any
way that is relevant to you andsupport that need and offer that
help as well.
You can find that on ourwebsite, adrianandshay.com.
If you would rather just dip atoe in a little bit, we have a
live webinar on December 16th atwhat time, Shay?

(01:11:09):
Noon Central Time.
Noon Central Time.
That's 12 Central Time.
Um, so we also have that if youare available.
We're just curious.
I boy, I can't imagine that youdon't have anything better to
do.
Um but a heck, even if you'rebored, jump on, say hi.

(01:11:29):
We we certainly would love tohave you and be able to provide
some some support there.
So we also have that going on.
Um, but that's about it, guys.
Um, this is a really specialtime of the year for us.
We're excited that you're herewith us.
Maybe we're not the best atclosing things out, so let's say
this.
We hope your stockings arestuffed.

(01:11:50):
We hope you have gottensomething beneficial,
spiritually heartening out ofthis.
And um, one more time beforeChristmas, we're gonna talk
about not just um Santa suits,but we're also gonna talk about
the incarnation and what itmeans to be physically embodied,
and that we are much, much morethan just a meat suit.

(01:12:11):
Um and that comes up a lot inthe culture.
So we want to talk about thatand address that and talk about
yes, your dignity in theincarnation and the dignity of
being human.
So if you want to find out abouthow great we are as human
beings, join us on the nextepisode.
And until then, we look forwardto hearing from you as we
continue to live the third way.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:32):
We hope you have a very peaceful and charged Advent
season leading up to Christmas.
God bless you all.
Like and subscribe if you wish.
All right.
God bless you.
God bless you.