December 3, 2021 • 33 mins
Cutting your own Christmas tree is more than a fun way to get outdoors and create lasting memories. On the latest episode of the Living With Fire Podcast, we cover the ins and outs of cutting your own Christmas tree with Jennifer Diamond, Fire Mitigation Specialist with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Carson City District, and Tessa Putz with the University of Nevada, Reno Extension. They explain how cutting your own Christmas tree can help restore Nevada's rangelands and thin-out overgrown landscapes, reducing the risk of high-intensity wildfire. Diamond also shares how to get your permit, what the rules are and some tips for cutting your tree on BLM lands in Nevada. Learn more below.
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas tree on Bureau of Land Management land in Nevada go to https://forestproducts.blm.gov/
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas Tree in the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest go to https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/htnf/home/?cid=FSEPRD564027
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Megan Kay (00:19):
Welcome to the living with fire podcast, where we
share stories and resources tohelp you live more safely with
wildfire. Hi, I'm your host,Megan Kay and Outreach
Coordinator for the living ofFire Program. And I'm joined by
my boss Jamie rice combs. Hi,Jamie.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (00:36):
Hi, Megan.
Megan Kay (00:38):
So we are here to talk about the podcast that
you're about to listen to, whichis about cutting your own
Christmas tree on BLM land inCarson City. So we talked with
or not Carson City, sorry, theCarson range District, which we
kind of talked about, you'llhear in the podcast how far that
(00:59):
reaches. But our guests was wegot to talk with Jen diamond,
who's a mitigation expert atBLM. And we're also joined by
Tessa putz who works for livingwith fire as a natural resource
associate. And so they kind oftalk about the ecology, and
everything you need to knowabout cutting your Christmas
(01:22):
tree. Does that make sense? Whatam I missing? Jamie?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (01:25):
No, that makes sense. I think it's
typically we've only talkedabout cutting down Christmas
trees in the US Forest ServiceHumboldt Tyagi area. But I
really like how we havebroadened our information range.
And we've we are now talkingabout cutting down the different
(01:48):
trees in the Bureau of LandManagement, and land. And so I
think it was a really greatinformational and interesting
podcast for folks.
Megan Kay (02:03):
Thanks for joining us enjoy the episode.
Tessa Putz (02:07):
Hi, everyone. My name is Tessa Putz, I'm a
natural resources associate withthe living with FIRE program.
And my work mainly focuses onthe science communication side.
So I do a lot of work,translating and distilling
current science into educationalresources like factsheets, or
(02:31):
guides, or websites. And so abig part of what I'm working on
right now is the Pinyon, Juniperencroachment education program.
So I Yeah, so I've learned a lotabout that and have a lot to
Yeah, talk about.
Megan Kay (02:47):
Awesome, thank you.
And that ties in a lot with whatwe're talking today, talking
about today. And then so Jen, doyou mind introducing us and
letting us know your what youwhat you do your job title. And
then if you don't mind goinginto a little bit of kind of
your history and how you got toyour position. Okay.
Jennifer Diamond (03:04):
So yeah, thanks for having me today. My
name is Jennifer diamond. And Iwork for the Bureau of Land
Management as a fire prevention,education mitigation
specialists. So pretty longtitle. That's because we kind of
cover a lot of different things.
So I go around in, tried toeducate the public on how they
(03:26):
can help with fire prevention.
So I go to schools and events,and do social media to get the
word out on what our causes areand how we can help prevent
them. And so I also investigatefires so that I can determine
(03:47):
what the cause is, so we knowwhere to focus our efforts. I
also am a public informationofficer. So that just kind of
all goes hand in hand withtrying to relay the message out
to the public, and just a reallybig advocate for mitigation
work. And what we are doing outthere on BLM administered lands.
(04:13):
And kind of how I got into thisposition is I have 18 years with
the Forest Service. I justrecently left that position as a
fire prevention officer, whichis very similar to the position
that I'm doing right now. Andprior to that, I have worked on
(04:35):
engines and hand crews and didsome time with the fire use
module. So I did somesuppression work for about nine
years before I got intoprevention.
Megan Kay (04:52):
I've really enjoyed working with you by the way
since I've been here.
Jennifer Diamond (04:55):
Ah, thank you.
I really enjoy working with allof you at living with fire
Megan Kay (05:01):
So we're here today to kind of pick your brain about
the Christmas tree cuttingprograms. So for people who
aren't aware, this this programexists on public lands. So BLM
and Forest Service lands, andits program where people can buy
permits and go cut their ownChristmas tree. And I, at least
(05:22):
that's what I know about it. ButI wanted to ask you the expert,
could you kind of just explainwhat the what the program is?
Jennifer Diamond (05:30):
Yeah, so just kind of like you said, by
obtaining a permit, that programallows the purchaser to cut
trees on Bureau of LandManagement administered plans.
The permits are specifically forPinyon, pine, and junipers.
That's the only tree speciesthat is allowed to be harvested
(05:51):
with this kind of permit on BLMlands. So the the Christmas tree
cutting program is also used tothin the range lands in those
dense areas. Those unhealthystands of trees, we can get in
there and just kind of thin itout by allowing the range lands
(06:16):
users to get in there and andtake a tree. It also better
assist firefighters withreaching fire containment, the
less vegetation that we have outthere that are all encroaching
upon each other. It ultimatelyhelps slow the fire spread. And
it also opens up areas forwildlife, to forage. So there's
(06:42):
a multi purpose here where weare allowing people to have that
adventure of getting theirChristmas tree, and also
reducing the fields out therefor firefighters and for the
public to ultimately be moresafe and hoping to slow the fire
spread.
Megan Kay (07:03):
Just out of curiosity, do you know how many
people participate and cut treesdown? Maybe from your experience
with the Forest Service as well?
Jennifer Diamond (07:11):
I want to say on Carson City district I heard
somewhere around 1600 permitsare generally issued for BLM
Carson City District. I can'treally put a number or speak to
the other areas.
Megan Kay (07:27):
That's a lot of trees. That's a lot of thinning
that could possibly be done.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:32):
Yeah, it is.
And Jen, when you say the CarsonCity District, do you? That's
where you work. Right? It is. Iwas specific to that in the
beginning with Would you mindtelling folks where the Carson
City District is? Yeah, so theCarson City district runs all up
and down this year front. Andall the way east, towards Austin
(07:57):
almost. So it covers a reallylarge area.
Megan Kay (08:12):
84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people.
If you're planning on headingout and enjoying public lands,
visit Nevada fire info.org andlearn how you can recreate
responsibly and do your part toprevent wildfires.
So my next question for youwould be and you definitely
(08:33):
definitely covered this, but ifyou have anything to add, go for
it. But it was just how doestree cutting impact the ranges
and ecosystems? And just kind ofexplain, explain why it's good
for the ecosystem to do to cutyour own Christmas tree? And to
(08:54):
go in there. I think it's Ithink it's great that it it
makes sense to me that it forwildfire, risk mitigation,
reducing the risk and going inthere and getting rid of those
those hazardous fuels. But asfar as you know, myself, I'm
kind of a layman when it comesto ecology I'm learning Yeah, it
(09:15):
could you drop some knowledgeabout just the the effect that
it has on the ecosystem.
Jennifer Diamond (09:21):
So I guess I like to look at it as it's a
part of active forestmanagement, and that overall is
good for the ecosystems. It's animportant part of like he said,
reducing the risk of fire in theforest or range lands and to
make the rangelands healthieroverall. And so, by allowing
(09:45):
like a small harvest of trees,over an area can improve the
rangelands by doing thatthinning like we were talking
about. And we do a similar thingon a much larger scale. With our
Fuels program, so we haveprojects all over the state
working to reduce fuels. And soI kind of look at it from a fire
(10:09):
prevention mitigationstandpoint, as that's what this
program is doing on a little bitof a smaller scale there. So
when you talk about, you know,being healthy, all of those
trees out there are ultimatelycompeting with one another. So
many of them will ultimately diefrom kind of fighting each other
(10:35):
for the same sunlight and water.
So by fitting them, the onesthat we leave behind, are going
to be much healthier than if weleft them crowded and fighting
for survival. So when you do goout there and pick a tree, it's
best to pick one from an areathat is overstocked and really
(10:57):
dense. Just a little thicketarea, if you can find a nice one
in there. That's the best to do.
So that we're we're reachingthat goal of creating some
spacing between the trees.
Megan Kay (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great point. Because I feel like when
people are going out to cuttheir Christmas trees, they're
probably not thinking aboutthat. They're just thinking
about, you know, what's theprettiest tree that they want to
take home? So I also wanted tokind of pivot and ask Tessa,
some questions about pinyon andjuniper encroachment on the
(11:37):
range lens, because that's yourspecialty.
Tessa Putz (11:39):
Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd love to speak to that a
little bit. Jen brings up somereally great points about you
know, managing the landscape.
And in either case, you know,we're we need to manage both
landscapes, both ecosystems forresilience, and so you know, we
have Pinyon, Juniper woodlandexpanding into the sagebrush,
(12:04):
rangelands, and they're outcompeting the shrubs and the
grasses and forbs for the youknow, the resources that Jen
talked about the you know, waterand sunlight and nutrients, you
know, trees have these widereaching far reaching routes,
(12:25):
and they can acquire a lot ofthese resources much more easily
than a shrubs and herbaceousplants do. And so, yeah, so
these are sagebrush seas arereally threatened by
encroachment. And, but they, youknow, they have their own value,
(12:48):
they support, you know, a lot ofecosystem services like carbon
sequestration, and soilstability. And they also
provide, you know, a lot ofhabitat for wildlife. We all
know, a lot of us probably knowabout the sage grouse, but
there's many other species thatare specifically dependent upon.
(13:08):
And then also like the game thatuse it as well, they'll use the
woodland and they'll use thesagebrush ecosystems as well.
And so, yeah, it's, it'simportant, but to, you know, to
improve resilience of thesagebrush, but then also the,
the woodland is, well, you know,with infilling we've had, you
(13:33):
know, these forests become a lotmore dense. And, yeah, we need
to, you know, in, in these underthese, you know, more stressful
conditions that we're seeing, weneed to reduce the number of
trees which, you know, bycutting, having people come in
and cut, that's a great waygreat way to do that.
Megan Kay (13:56):
Yeah, I was always this just as an anecdote. When I
was getting out, you know, forsort of discovering Nevada as an
adult and like going out intothe, to the country in the
backcountry. I didn't reallyunderstand the term rangelands,
because to me, it always justseemed like a forest. And then
now that I'm getting, Iunderstand, like the background
(14:16):
in the in the ecology a littlebit in the encroachment of these
pinion and pinion trees andJuniper is it's like, okay, so
there's it wasn't meant to belike dense, dense stands of
pinyon and juniper, not notnecessarily. So it's been
interesting to it's like a shiftbecause it's what I was used to
growing up, you know, it's likeI'm used to this is just the,
(14:38):
the landscape. And then when youthink about it, in terms of
like, these are actuallyencroaching and sucking up all
the water out of the soil. Andit's really kind of a paradigm
shift and like the way I look atNevada and the landscape, so
thank you guys for giving thebackground on that ecology. I
(15:00):
think that we did talk a lotabout the what thinning and
cutting these trees does forhazardous wildland fuel
mitigation. And to kind ofunpack that term, meaning that
that build up of all thesehazardous fuels creates
potential fuel fuel forwildfire. I said that really
(15:21):
poorly. So maybe Jen, you couldunpack that term for everybody,
just the the term of justhazardous wildland fuels. And
then also, if you wanted to addanything more to how cutting
your Christmas tree helps withthat effort.
Jennifer Diamond (15:35):
Okay, yeah, so when we talk about hazardous
fuels and reducing fuels, andthese projects that we're doing
the the objective there is toremove enough vegetation so that
when a wildfire does burn inthat area, it's less severe and
can be more easily managed. Sowhen that vegetation
(15:57):
accumulates, it allows fires toburn much hotter, much faster,
the flame links are higher, theembers get thrown into the next
stand of vegetation. So byclearing out some of those small
trees out of those dense areas,it's just helping and reducing
(16:20):
those odds of those emberscarrying it into the next
standard vegetation. So that'skind of what we mean when we
talk about reducing fuels andhaving that spacing in between
each other. And so, like Imentioned earlier, we we have a
field program that works onreducing the excess vegetation.
(16:43):
And they work through variousprojects such as mastication,
chipping, building hand piles toburn, doing broadcast,
prescribed burns, havingfirewood cutting permit program,
and also by harvesting smalltrees, such as this Christmas
(17:07):
tree program. So that's kind ofmultiple ways that we do
reduction feels work. And so forthose families that are chopping
down their own trees, they'rekind of they're contributing to
doing that part in the spittingout the rangelands in the
(17:28):
forest. So we're kind of killingtwo birds with one stone there,
if you say that.
Megan Kay (17:39):
I love that idea. And I feel like people would love
that as well. I am inspired todo it. So and I've never done it
before. So I want to move on totalking about sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree. But before I do,
I wanted to give you guys likeJamie and Tessa chance to add
anything else about just sort ofthe fuels or the ecology portion
(18:02):
of it if you have anything else.
Yeah, I think one thing that isreally interesting to think
about is that with at least onthe encroachment side, that as
you know, Woodland expands thethe fire regime really changes.
So with, you know, encouragingtrees, both the fuel structure
(18:26):
and the amount changes. And so,you know, more trees obviously
leads to more fuel and morelitter and more downed wood. But
there's this change from morepatchy surface fire that's not
as continuous. Like within theshrubs to with trees, fire
(18:50):
that's in the canopy. And thisconnection from surface fires to
camp canopy fires that are oftenoften need more extreme fire
weather conditions to occur. Andthen when they do occur, there's
more connectivity. And so, youknow, if we can, you know,
(19:12):
reduce the fuel loads, like themany ways that Jen talked about
reduce encroachment that all ofthat is really important to do,
so that we decrease highseverity wildfires, or at least
the potential for them.
(19:36):
communities located in wildfireprone areas need to take extra
measures to live safely. Thereare many ways to prepare
communities and properties forwildfire, including creating and
maintaining adequate defensiblespace and hardening homes to
withstand wildfires. This couldmean altering or replacing
certain components of the home.
Our wildfire home retrofit guidewill help you better prepare
your home and communities forwildfire. You can find the guide
(19:57):
and the resources section of ourwebsite at living with fire.com.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (20:06):
I think maybe we should clarify like, like
some terms that folks might notknow, like, what's the canopy?
What's herbaceous? What'smastication? Maybe we can give
like a little couple sentence.
You know, explanation what thosethings are.
Megan Kay (20:24):
Yeah. So Jen, do you mind talking about mastication?
Since you brought it up?
Jennifer Diamond (20:29):
Sure.
mastication is a way that we canreduce the fields by using
mechanical equipment. So forinstance, we might bring in I am
forgetting the name of the theactual piece of equipment that
can basically Munch down all ofthe vegetation down to the
(20:52):
surface.
Megan Kay (20:56):
Is it called a masticator. Oh, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (21:02):
There's another piece of equipment that
I'm thinking of besides that,
Megan Kay (21:08):
and it has like the many blades on it, basically.
Right. And yeah, it kind of likemost through and chopped it up
and punches it over. Yeah,
Jennifer Diamond (21:15):
it does. And so it just kind of eats it up.
It makes it real small and takesit down to the surface level.
Megan Kay (21:23):
Yeah. Which is something that people don't
think of the, like that sort ofmechanical treatment for sure.
And then herbaceous. Definitelywant to take that one. Yeah, I,
I've Yes, I brought that up. Sothat just refers to the more
leafy plants that are growingwith the shrubs. So that's the
(21:46):
the grasses and the forbs, whichare the, you know, some are more
of the wildflowers that we see.
And so those all grow in thesesagebrush rangelands, and are
really important because theyprovide food and habitat for for
animals for wildlife. And then Iand then I also mentioned
(22:08):
canopy. So the canopy, canopyfires are basically in the tops
of trees, is where that thoseoccur? Yeah, that makes sense.
Good call Jamie. Yeah, sometimesI get I forget, you know, but
these, these terms are sort ofjargony. So listener, your, I
(22:31):
don't know if they'll, if I'llinclude this little my little
speech here. But for thelisteners out there. Bear with
us. Cool. So if, if there, ifthere's anything else, I'll try
to I'll try to keep that inmind. So I might interrupt folks
if those things do come up inthe future. So the next thing I
(22:54):
wanted to talk about are justsort of the ins and outs of
cutting your own Christmas treefor folks who maybe have never
done it before. And so thosemight include how to get your
permits or what are the rulesand the etiquette and then just
kind of things that you need.
(23:14):
And I just from talking withyou, Jen, I feel like you're the
expert. Not just because it'syour job but because you have
experienced cutting the trees.
So I was wondering so I will I'mjust going to defer to you will
tell us what to do when we'regoing to when we're going to cut
around Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (23:30):
First you're gonna want to find out I guess
how to get how to get a permit.
So you can go to forest productsthat blm.gov and search for
Nevada and then the districtthat you choose to obtain a
permit from. So first you getthat permit. And then you you're
going to want to Well first ofall know that you can make that
(23:53):
in Pine and junipers and thenyou know, pick an area that you
want to go travel in and thenknow know what the weather
forecast is like because youknow, it's always a good idea
when heading into the woods atany time of the year but
especially in winter time tojust know what that weather is
(24:17):
going to be like and I know thatI've ran into that a couple of
times just trying to be thestorm and trying to time it
right so that I know that theroads are safe to travel on and
I'm not going to be cutting atree in a blizzard with a bunch
of wind. So know the weather andI always pack you know I mean
(24:40):
like you're going to be out inthe cold. So I have a jacket,
gloves. Tip typical winterclothing. I also bring Of course
it's going to be probably apretty long day so I bring Food
and I bring water. Anytimeyou're operating some kind of
(25:04):
saw or equipment, it's a goodidea to have a first aid kit.
And then once you cut your tree,you're going to need something
to bring it home with and tosecure it. So bring some type of
heavy rope for tie downs tosecure it in your vehicle. And
(25:25):
also, when traveling on on dirtroads in the winter time, just I
always like to bring a shovel,or even chains if you're going
to need chains on your vehicle.
(25:47):
Yeah, just just in case that theweather isn't exactly how you
planned, but I try to kind of goaround that storm if there is
one.
Megan Kay (25:57):
Yeah, don't don't even risk it. Right.
Jennifer Diamond (26:01):
And yeah, just kind of know that some of those
areas that you're used to seeingmight be inaccessible by the
time you choose to get outthere. So it looks a little
different after there's snow onthe ground. Um, and then just
once you're out there, and youdo actually cut, the tree that
(26:24):
you choose, the stumps cannot beany higher than six inches from
the ground. And they should becut level. So a lot of people
like to maybe put a slash cut init so that it's diagonals so
that they can kind of push itover. And that's nice to get the
(26:46):
tree on the ground. But afteryou do that, go back and cut it
as close to the ground and aslevel and parallel to the ground
that that you can and that's toavoid tripping hazards for the
next person that's walkingaround out there. Just not nice
(27:08):
to see something sharp stickingout of the ground like that.
Megan Kay (27:12):
Yeah. And especially if it's not then sort of blunt
cut and it's just at a angle.
It's just like a spike stickingout of the ground. Yeah, so
yeah, not safe for the nextperson.
Jennifer Diamond (27:26):
Yeah. And then I always kind of look in the
tree to make sure that there'snot a nest or any little
critters living in there. Yeah,don't want to take a home from
something. And then once you docut the tree and maybe there's
some limbs or green branchesthat that you you don't want,
(27:50):
you know on the bottom to stickit into your Christmas tree
stand. Just make sure that youscatter those limbs around.
Don't just pile them all in onearea. It just kind of looks more
natural. They're they'rescattered out there.
Megan Kay (28:08):
Have you guys Jamie and Tessa, have you guys ever
cut your own Christmas tree?
Tessa Putz (28:11):
No, but I can't wait to
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:15):
Yeah, I have.
But I've never cut it on BLMlands before I typically have
gotten a US Forest Servicepermit. Because I want to get a
fir to cut me. Yeah, me too.
Megan Kay (28:29):
I like I like pines, my family always got pine so so
it's like it kind of makes sensethat it's I guess it's your
tastes you know? Do you guyshave any? Do you have any tips?
And Jamie any things thatanything that came up from your
experience that you think mightbe helpful for someone who's
maybe trying it for the firsttime?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:49):
You know, I mean, it's, you're probably
going to be going, you know, offroading and bring chains. If you
have a truck. It's obviouslyeasier than like a small SUV. I
have a small SUV. And I I mean,I really want to truck because I
really hate putting my Christmastree on top of my small SUV. But
(29:10):
it happens. You know, that'sthat's what we have. It's too we
have so I just ensure to haveyou know, tie downs and bring
boots and a coat. It's alwayscolder than you think it's gonna
be. No, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (29:28):
Yeah, and if you do have to stick it inside
your vehicle, it's pretty handyto have a sheet or a tarp or
something to lay it on to kindof help with the SAP, the
needles being in the SAP andjust the mess that's left behind
and to like yank it out
Megan Kay (29:45):
of there. As I say it's like a little bit of a tool
to help you get it out of there.
Jennifer Diamond (29:50):
Yeah. And then Jamie mentioned roads and I just
wanted to kind of highlightusing the existing roads and
well traveled roads. Not tocreate your own or to drive on
one that maybe somebody else hascreated and it looks like a
road. Because that just causesresource damage. And so just,
(30:15):
you know, take a map or don'trely on GPS systems, but having
them is handy to just help youout with what are those
maintained roads? And what arethe more well traveled roads?
Jen, what? Like what time perioddoes this Christmas tree permit
(30:40):
program run? Yeah, so it is opennow until December 24.
Megan Kay (30:48):
Okay, you want to get that last last last minute
Christmas tree? Yeah. I mean,who knows? Like, you can think
of many circumstances that thatmight happen. Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (31:00):
Yeah. And also know that when you are out
there, I mean, you do get yourpermit. There is a stipulation
page and a permit that must bein the permit to possession
while gathering and transportingthe tree. So make sure that you
attach that like, I think it'san adhesive permit to the tree
(31:22):
so it can be seen by a personfrom outside of the vehicle.
Megan Kay (31:28):
Great tip. Yeah.
Awesome. So I feel like if youknow, I have all the knowledge I
need now to go cut my Christmastree for the first time. Thank
you so much for coming on andsharing all your knowledge.
Thank you, Tessa for joining us.
And Jamie is always zero. Likealways have the best questions.
The things that I don't thinkof.
Jennifer Diamond (31:52):
I have a couple more Yes, but I just
thought of the cost is $5 $5 $5for that not bad. And then if
you do choose to use a power sawmake sure that you have a
working spark arrestor it'srequired to have one and then
(32:16):
just make sure that you if youhave any garbage out there and
bring a garbage bag with you sothat you're not leaving behind
any litter it must all beremoved.
Megan Kay (32:28):
Yeah. And yeah, the spark arrestor it just makes me
think of what we kind of talkedabout Off mic earlier about how
it's still dry out there. Likewe still we haven't had as much
precipitation as I feel likepeople want so you know, keep in
mind that the temperatures arestill higher than normal and it
is still dry in the there isstill potential for sparking a
(32:49):
wildfire when you got into therangelands. Absolutely, yeah.
Well, that's all I had. I'd liketo thank you all for being here.
And do you guys have anythingelse you'd like to add?
Jennifer Diamond (33:04):
No. Well, if you do go out there and get a
Christmas tree you'll be sure tomake a lot of memories because I
know every single time I've goneit's a story to tell and it's
quite an adventure. So bring agood attitude, you never know
what's gonna happen.
Megan Kay (33:28):
Thank you for listening to the living with
fire podcast. You can find morestories about wildfire and other
resources at living withfire.com the living of fire
program is funded by theUniversity of Nevada, Reno
extension, Nevada Division ofForestry Bureau of Land
Management and the United StatesForest Service.
Welcome to the living with fire podcast, where we
share stories and resources tohelp you live more safely with
wildfire. Hi, I'm your host,Megan Kay and Outreach
Coordinator for the living ofFire Program. And I'm joined by
my boss Jamie rice combs. Hi,Jamie.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (00:36):
Hi, Megan.
Megan Kay (00:38):
So we are here to talk about the podcast that
you're about to listen to, whichis about cutting your own
Christmas tree on BLM land inCarson City. So we talked with
or not Carson City, sorry, theCarson range District, which we
kind of talked about, you'llhear in the podcast how far that
(00:59):
reaches. But our guests was wegot to talk with Jen diamond,
who's a mitigation expert atBLM. And we're also joined by
Tessa putz who works for livingwith fire as a natural resource
associate. And so they kind oftalk about the ecology, and
everything you need to knowabout cutting your Christmas
(01:22):
tree. Does that make sense? Whatam I missing? Jamie?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (01:25):
No, that makes sense. I think it's
typically we've only talkedabout cutting down Christmas
trees in the US Forest ServiceHumboldt Tyagi area. But I
really like how we havebroadened our information range.
And we've we are now talkingabout cutting down the different
(01:48):
trees in the Bureau of LandManagement, and land. And so I
think it was a really greatinformational and interesting
podcast for folks.
Megan Kay (02:03):
Thanks for joining us enjoy the episode.
Tessa Putz (02:07):
Hi, everyone. My name is Tessa Putz, I'm a
natural resources associate withthe living with FIRE program.
And my work mainly focuses onthe science communication side.
So I do a lot of work,translating and distilling
current science into educationalresources like factsheets, or
(02:31):
guides, or websites. And so abig part of what I'm working on
right now is the Pinyon, Juniperencroachment education program.
So I Yeah, so I've learned a lotabout that and have a lot to
Yeah, talk about.
Megan Kay (02:47):
Awesome, thank you.
And that ties in a lot with whatwe're talking today, talking
about today. And then so Jen, doyou mind introducing us and
letting us know your what youwhat you do your job title. And
then if you don't mind goinginto a little bit of kind of
your history and how you got toyour position. Okay.
Jennifer Diamond (03:04):
So yeah, thanks for having me today. My
name is Jennifer diamond. And Iwork for the Bureau of Land
Management as a fire prevention,education mitigation
specialists. So pretty longtitle. That's because we kind of
cover a lot of different things.
So I go around in, tried toeducate the public on how they
(03:26):
can help with fire prevention.
So I go to schools and events,and do social media to get the
word out on what our causes areand how we can help prevent
them. And so I also investigatefires so that I can determine
(03:47):
what the cause is, so we knowwhere to focus our efforts. I
also am a public informationofficer. So that just kind of
all goes hand in hand withtrying to relay the message out
to the public, and just a reallybig advocate for mitigation
work. And what we are doing outthere on BLM administered lands.
(04:13):
And kind of how I got into thisposition is I have 18 years with
the Forest Service. I justrecently left that position as a
fire prevention officer, whichis very similar to the position
that I'm doing right now. Andprior to that, I have worked on
(04:35):
engines and hand crews and didsome time with the fire use
module. So I did somesuppression work for about nine
years before I got intoprevention.
Megan Kay (04:52):
I've really enjoyed working with you by the way
since I've been here.
Jennifer Diamond (04:55):
Ah, thank you.
I really enjoy working with allof you at living with fire
Megan Kay (05:01):
So we're here today to kind of pick your brain about
the Christmas tree cuttingprograms. So for people who
aren't aware, this this programexists on public lands. So BLM
and Forest Service lands, andits program where people can buy
permits and go cut their ownChristmas tree. And I, at least
(05:22):
that's what I know about it. ButI wanted to ask you the expert,
could you kind of just explainwhat the what the program is?
Jennifer Diamond (05:30):
Yeah, so just kind of like you said, by
obtaining a permit, that programallows the purchaser to cut
trees on Bureau of LandManagement administered plans.
The permits are specifically forPinyon, pine, and junipers.
That's the only tree speciesthat is allowed to be harvested
(05:51):
with this kind of permit on BLMlands. So the the Christmas tree
cutting program is also used tothin the range lands in those
dense areas. Those unhealthystands of trees, we can get in
there and just kind of thin itout by allowing the range lands
(06:16):
users to get in there and andtake a tree. It also better
assist firefighters withreaching fire containment, the
less vegetation that we have outthere that are all encroaching
upon each other. It ultimatelyhelps slow the fire spread. And
it also opens up areas forwildlife, to forage. So there's
(06:42):
a multi purpose here where weare allowing people to have that
adventure of getting theirChristmas tree, and also
reducing the fields out therefor firefighters and for the
public to ultimately be moresafe and hoping to slow the fire
spread.
Megan Kay (07:03):
Just out of curiosity, do you know how many
people participate and cut treesdown? Maybe from your experience
with the Forest Service as well?
Jennifer Diamond (07:11):
I want to say on Carson City district I heard
somewhere around 1600 permitsare generally issued for BLM
Carson City District. I can'treally put a number or speak to
the other areas.
Megan Kay (07:27):
That's a lot of trees. That's a lot of thinning
that could possibly be done.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:32):
Yeah, it is.
And Jen, when you say the CarsonCity District, do you? That's
where you work. Right? It is. Iwas specific to that in the
beginning with Would you mindtelling folks where the Carson
City District is? Yeah, so theCarson City district runs all up
and down this year front. Andall the way east, towards Austin
(07:57):
almost. So it covers a reallylarge area.
Megan Kay (08:12):
84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people.
If you're planning on headingout and enjoying public lands,
visit Nevada fire info.org andlearn how you can recreate
responsibly and do your part toprevent wildfires.
So my next question for youwould be and you definitely
(08:33):
definitely covered this, but ifyou have anything to add, go for
it. But it was just how doestree cutting impact the ranges
and ecosystems? And just kind ofexplain, explain why it's good
for the ecosystem to do to cutyour own Christmas tree? And to
(08:54):
go in there. I think it's Ithink it's great that it it
makes sense to me that it forwildfire, risk mitigation,
reducing the risk and going inthere and getting rid of those
those hazardous fuels. But asfar as you know, myself, I'm
kind of a layman when it comesto ecology I'm learning Yeah, it
(09:15):
could you drop some knowledgeabout just the the effect that
it has on the ecosystem.
Jennifer Diamond (09:21):
So I guess I like to look at it as it's a
part of active forestmanagement, and that overall is
good for the ecosystems. It's animportant part of like he said,
reducing the risk of fire in theforest or range lands and to
make the rangelands healthieroverall. And so, by allowing
(09:45):
like a small harvest of trees,over an area can improve the
rangelands by doing thatthinning like we were talking
about. And we do a similar thingon a much larger scale. With our
Fuels program, so we haveprojects all over the state
working to reduce fuels. And soI kind of look at it from a fire
(10:09):
prevention mitigationstandpoint, as that's what this
program is doing on a little bitof a smaller scale there. So
when you talk about, you know,being healthy, all of those
trees out there are ultimatelycompeting with one another. So
many of them will ultimately diefrom kind of fighting each other
(10:35):
for the same sunlight and water.
So by fitting them, the onesthat we leave behind, are going
to be much healthier than if weleft them crowded and fighting
for survival. So when you do goout there and pick a tree, it's
best to pick one from an areathat is overstocked and really
(10:57):
dense. Just a little thicketarea, if you can find a nice one
in there. That's the best to do.
So that we're we're reachingthat goal of creating some
spacing between the trees.
Megan Kay (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great point. Because I feel like when
people are going out to cuttheir Christmas trees, they're
probably not thinking aboutthat. They're just thinking
about, you know, what's theprettiest tree that they want to
take home? So I also wanted tokind of pivot and ask Tessa,
some questions about pinyon andjuniper encroachment on the
(11:37):
range lens, because that's yourspecialty.
Tessa Putz (11:39):
Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd love to speak to that a
little bit. Jen brings up somereally great points about you
know, managing the landscape.
And in either case, you know,we're we need to manage both
landscapes, both ecosystems forresilience, and so you know, we
have Pinyon, Juniper woodlandexpanding into the sagebrush,
(12:04):
rangelands, and they're outcompeting the shrubs and the
grasses and forbs for the youknow, the resources that Jen
talked about the you know, waterand sunlight and nutrients, you
know, trees have these widereaching far reaching routes,
(12:25):
and they can acquire a lot ofthese resources much more easily
than a shrubs and herbaceousplants do. And so, yeah, so
these are sagebrush seas arereally threatened by
encroachment. And, but they, youknow, they have their own value,
(12:48):
they support, you know, a lot ofecosystem services like carbon
sequestration, and soilstability. And they also
provide, you know, a lot ofhabitat for wildlife. We all
know, a lot of us probably knowabout the sage grouse, but
there's many other species thatare specifically dependent upon.
(13:08):
And then also like the game thatuse it as well, they'll use the
woodland and they'll use thesagebrush ecosystems as well.
And so, yeah, it's, it'simportant, but to, you know, to
improve resilience of thesagebrush, but then also the,
the woodland is, well, you know,with infilling we've had, you
(13:33):
know, these forests become a lotmore dense. And, yeah, we need
to, you know, in, in these underthese, you know, more stressful
conditions that we're seeing, weneed to reduce the number of
trees which, you know, bycutting, having people come in
and cut, that's a great waygreat way to do that.
Megan Kay (13:56):
Yeah, I was always this just as an anecdote. When I
was getting out, you know, forsort of discovering Nevada as an
adult and like going out intothe, to the country in the
backcountry. I didn't reallyunderstand the term rangelands,
because to me, it always justseemed like a forest. And then
now that I'm getting, Iunderstand, like the background
(14:16):
in the in the ecology a littlebit in the encroachment of these
pinion and pinion trees andJuniper is it's like, okay, so
there's it wasn't meant to belike dense, dense stands of
pinyon and juniper, not notnecessarily. So it's been
interesting to it's like a shiftbecause it's what I was used to
growing up, you know, it's likeI'm used to this is just the,
(14:38):
the landscape. And then when youthink about it, in terms of
like, these are actuallyencroaching and sucking up all
the water out of the soil. Andit's really kind of a paradigm
shift and like the way I look atNevada and the landscape, so
thank you guys for giving thebackground on that ecology. I
(15:00):
think that we did talk a lotabout the what thinning and
cutting these trees does forhazardous wildland fuel
mitigation. And to kind ofunpack that term, meaning that
that build up of all thesehazardous fuels creates
potential fuel fuel forwildfire. I said that really
(15:21):
poorly. So maybe Jen, you couldunpack that term for everybody,
just the the term of justhazardous wildland fuels. And
then also, if you wanted to addanything more to how cutting
your Christmas tree helps withthat effort.
Jennifer Diamond (15:35):
Okay, yeah, so when we talk about hazardous
fuels and reducing fuels, andthese projects that we're doing
the the objective there is toremove enough vegetation so that
when a wildfire does burn inthat area, it's less severe and
can be more easily managed. Sowhen that vegetation
(15:57):
accumulates, it allows fires toburn much hotter, much faster,
the flame links are higher, theembers get thrown into the next
stand of vegetation. So byclearing out some of those small
trees out of those dense areas,it's just helping and reducing
(16:20):
those odds of those emberscarrying it into the next
standard vegetation. So that'skind of what we mean when we
talk about reducing fuels andhaving that spacing in between
each other. And so, like Imentioned earlier, we we have a
field program that works onreducing the excess vegetation.
(16:43):
And they work through variousprojects such as mastication,
chipping, building hand piles toburn, doing broadcast,
prescribed burns, havingfirewood cutting permit program,
and also by harvesting smalltrees, such as this Christmas
(17:07):
tree program. So that's kind ofmultiple ways that we do
reduction feels work. And so forthose families that are chopping
down their own trees, they'rekind of they're contributing to
doing that part in the spittingout the rangelands in the
(17:28):
forest. So we're kind of killingtwo birds with one stone there,
if you say that.
Megan Kay (17:39):
I love that idea. And I feel like people would love
that as well. I am inspired todo it. So and I've never done it
before. So I want to move on totalking about sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree. But before I do,
I wanted to give you guys likeJamie and Tessa chance to add
anything else about just sort ofthe fuels or the ecology portion
(18:02):
of it if you have anything else.
Yeah, I think one thing that isreally interesting to think
about is that with at least onthe encroachment side, that as
you know, Woodland expands thethe fire regime really changes.
So with, you know, encouragingtrees, both the fuel structure
(18:26):
and the amount changes. And so,you know, more trees obviously
leads to more fuel and morelitter and more downed wood. But
there's this change from morepatchy surface fire that's not
as continuous. Like within theshrubs to with trees, fire
(18:50):
that's in the canopy. And thisconnection from surface fires to
camp canopy fires that are oftenoften need more extreme fire
weather conditions to occur. Andthen when they do occur, there's
more connectivity. And so, youknow, if we can, you know,
(19:12):
reduce the fuel loads, like themany ways that Jen talked about
reduce encroachment that all ofthat is really important to do,
so that we decrease highseverity wildfires, or at least
the potential for them.
(19:36):
communities located in wildfireprone areas need to take extra
measures to live safely. Thereare many ways to prepare
communities and properties forwildfire, including creating and
maintaining adequate defensiblespace and hardening homes to
withstand wildfires. This couldmean altering or replacing
certain components of the home.
Our wildfire home retrofit guidewill help you better prepare
your home and communities forwildfire. You can find the guide
(19:57):
and the resources section of ourwebsite at living with fire.com.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (20:06):
I think maybe we should clarify like, like
some terms that folks might notknow, like, what's the canopy?
What's herbaceous? What'smastication? Maybe we can give
like a little couple sentence.
You know, explanation what thosethings are.
Megan Kay (20:24):
Yeah. So Jen, do you mind talking about mastication?
Since you brought it up?
Jennifer Diamond (20:29):
Sure.
mastication is a way that we canreduce the fields by using
mechanical equipment. So forinstance, we might bring in I am
forgetting the name of the theactual piece of equipment that
can basically Munch down all ofthe vegetation down to the
(20:52):
surface.
Megan Kay (20:56):
Is it called a masticator. Oh, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (21:02):
There's another piece of equipment that
I'm thinking of besides that,
Megan Kay (21:08):
and it has like the many blades on it, basically.
Right. And yeah, it kind of likemost through and chopped it up
and punches it over. Yeah,
Jennifer Diamond (21:15):
it does. And so it just kind of eats it up.
It makes it real small and takesit down to the surface level.
Megan Kay (21:23):
Yeah. Which is something that people don't
think of the, like that sort ofmechanical treatment for sure.
And then herbaceous. Definitelywant to take that one. Yeah, I,
I've Yes, I brought that up. Sothat just refers to the more
leafy plants that are growingwith the shrubs. So that's the
(21:46):
the grasses and the forbs, whichare the, you know, some are more
of the wildflowers that we see.
And so those all grow in thesesagebrush rangelands, and are
really important because theyprovide food and habitat for for
animals for wildlife. And then Iand then I also mentioned
(22:08):
canopy. So the canopy, canopyfires are basically in the tops
of trees, is where that thoseoccur? Yeah, that makes sense.
Good call Jamie. Yeah, sometimesI get I forget, you know, but
these, these terms are sort ofjargony. So listener, your, I
(22:31):
don't know if they'll, if I'llinclude this little my little
speech here. But for thelisteners out there. Bear with
us. Cool. So if, if there, ifthere's anything else, I'll try
to I'll try to keep that inmind. So I might interrupt folks
if those things do come up inthe future. So the next thing I
(22:54):
wanted to talk about are justsort of the ins and outs of
cutting your own Christmas treefor folks who maybe have never
done it before. And so thosemight include how to get your
permits or what are the rulesand the etiquette and then just
kind of things that you need.
(23:14):
And I just from talking withyou, Jen, I feel like you're the
expert. Not just because it'syour job but because you have
experienced cutting the trees.
So I was wondering so I will I'mjust going to defer to you will
tell us what to do when we'regoing to when we're going to cut
around Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (23:30):
First you're gonna want to find out I guess
how to get how to get a permit.
So you can go to forest productsthat blm.gov and search for
Nevada and then the districtthat you choose to obtain a
permit from. So first you getthat permit. And then you you're
going to want to Well first ofall know that you can make that
(23:53):
in Pine and junipers and thenyou know, pick an area that you
want to go travel in and thenknow know what the weather
forecast is like because youknow, it's always a good idea
when heading into the woods atany time of the year but
especially in winter time tojust know what that weather is
(24:17):
going to be like and I know thatI've ran into that a couple of
times just trying to be thestorm and trying to time it
right so that I know that theroads are safe to travel on and
I'm not going to be cutting atree in a blizzard with a bunch
of wind. So know the weather andI always pack you know I mean
(24:40):
like you're going to be out inthe cold. So I have a jacket,
gloves. Tip typical winterclothing. I also bring Of course
it's going to be probably apretty long day so I bring Food
and I bring water. Anytimeyou're operating some kind of
(25:04):
saw or equipment, it's a goodidea to have a first aid kit.
And then once you cut your tree,you're going to need something
to bring it home with and tosecure it. So bring some type of
heavy rope for tie downs tosecure it in your vehicle. And
(25:25):
also, when traveling on on dirtroads in the winter time, just I
always like to bring a shovel,or even chains if you're going
to need chains on your vehicle.
(25:47):
Yeah, just just in case that theweather isn't exactly how you
planned, but I try to kind of goaround that storm if there is
one.
Megan Kay (25:57):
Yeah, don't don't even risk it. Right.
Jennifer Diamond (26:01):
And yeah, just kind of know that some of those
areas that you're used to seeingmight be inaccessible by the
time you choose to get outthere. So it looks a little
different after there's snow onthe ground. Um, and then just
once you're out there, and youdo actually cut, the tree that
(26:24):
you choose, the stumps cannot beany higher than six inches from
the ground. And they should becut level. So a lot of people
like to maybe put a slash cut init so that it's diagonals so
that they can kind of push itover. And that's nice to get the
(26:46):
tree on the ground. But afteryou do that, go back and cut it
as close to the ground and aslevel and parallel to the ground
that that you can and that's toavoid tripping hazards for the
next person that's walkingaround out there. Just not nice
(27:08):
to see something sharp stickingout of the ground like that.
Megan Kay (27:12):
Yeah. And especially if it's not then sort of blunt
cut and it's just at a angle.
It's just like a spike stickingout of the ground. Yeah, so
yeah, not safe for the nextperson.
Jennifer Diamond (27:26):
Yeah. And then I always kind of look in the
tree to make sure that there'snot a nest or any little
critters living in there. Yeah,don't want to take a home from
something. And then once you docut the tree and maybe there's
some limbs or green branchesthat that you you don't want,
(27:50):
you know on the bottom to stickit into your Christmas tree
stand. Just make sure that youscatter those limbs around.
Don't just pile them all in onearea. It just kind of looks more
natural. They're they'rescattered out there.
Megan Kay (28:08):
Have you guys Jamie and Tessa, have you guys ever
cut your own Christmas tree?
Tessa Putz (28:11):
No, but I can't wait to
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:15):
Yeah, I have.
But I've never cut it on BLMlands before I typically have
gotten a US Forest Servicepermit. Because I want to get a
fir to cut me. Yeah, me too.
Megan Kay (28:29):
I like I like pines, my family always got pine so so
it's like it kind of makes sensethat it's I guess it's your
tastes you know? Do you guyshave any? Do you have any tips?
And Jamie any things thatanything that came up from your
experience that you think mightbe helpful for someone who's
maybe trying it for the firsttime?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:49):
You know, I mean, it's, you're probably
going to be going, you know, offroading and bring chains. If you
have a truck. It's obviouslyeasier than like a small SUV. I
have a small SUV. And I I mean,I really want to truck because I
really hate putting my Christmastree on top of my small SUV. But
(29:10):
it happens. You know, that'sthat's what we have. It's too we
have so I just ensure to haveyou know, tie downs and bring
boots and a coat. It's alwayscolder than you think it's gonna
be. No, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (29:28):
Yeah, and if you do have to stick it inside
your vehicle, it's pretty handyto have a sheet or a tarp or
something to lay it on to kindof help with the SAP, the
needles being in the SAP andjust the mess that's left behind
and to like yank it out
Megan Kay (29:45):
of there. As I say it's like a little bit of a tool
to help you get it out of there.
Jennifer Diamond (29:50):
Yeah. And then Jamie mentioned roads and I just
wanted to kind of highlightusing the existing roads and
well traveled roads. Not tocreate your own or to drive on
one that maybe somebody else hascreated and it looks like a
road. Because that just causesresource damage. And so just,
(30:15):
you know, take a map or don'trely on GPS systems, but having
them is handy to just help youout with what are those
maintained roads? And what arethe more well traveled roads?
Jen, what? Like what time perioddoes this Christmas tree permit
(30:40):
program run? Yeah, so it is opennow until December 24.
Megan Kay (30:48):
Okay, you want to get that last last last minute
Christmas tree? Yeah. I mean,who knows? Like, you can think
of many circumstances that thatmight happen. Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (31:00):
Yeah. And also know that when you are out
there, I mean, you do get yourpermit. There is a stipulation
page and a permit that must bein the permit to possession
while gathering and transportingthe tree. So make sure that you
attach that like, I think it'san adhesive permit to the tree
(31:22):
so it can be seen by a personfrom outside of the vehicle.
Megan Kay (31:28):
Great tip. Yeah.
Awesome. So I feel like if youknow, I have all the knowledge I
need now to go cut my Christmastree for the first time. Thank
you so much for coming on andsharing all your knowledge.
Thank you, Tessa for joining us.
And Jamie is always zero. Likealways have the best questions.
The things that I don't thinkof.
Jennifer Diamond (31:52):
I have a couple more Yes, but I just
thought of the cost is $5 $5 $5for that not bad. And then if
you do choose to use a power sawmake sure that you have a
working spark arrestor it'srequired to have one and then
(32:16):
just make sure that you if youhave any garbage out there and
bring a garbage bag with you sothat you're not leaving behind
any litter it must all beremoved.
Megan Kay (32:28):
Yeah. And yeah, the spark arrestor it just makes me
think of what we kind of talkedabout Off mic earlier about how
it's still dry out there. Likewe still we haven't had as much
precipitation as I feel likepeople want so you know, keep in
mind that the temperatures arestill higher than normal and it
is still dry in the there isstill potential for sparking a
(32:49):
wildfire when you got into therangelands. Absolutely, yeah.
Well, that's all I had. I'd liketo thank you all for being here.
And do you guys have anythingelse you'd like to add?
Jennifer Diamond (33:04):
No. Well, if you do go out there and get a
Christmas tree you'll be sure tomake a lot of memories because I
know every single time I've goneit's a story to tell and it's
quite an adventure. So bring agood attitude, you never know
what's gonna happen.
Megan Kay (33:28):
Thank you for listening to the living with
fire podcast. You can find morestories about wildfire and other
resources at living withfire.com the living of fire
program is funded by theUniversity of Nevada, Reno
extension, Nevada Division ofForestry Bureau of Land
Management and the United StatesForest Service.
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