December 3, 2021 • 33 mins
Cutting your own Christmas tree is more than a fun way to get outdoors and create lasting memories. On the latest episode of the Living With Fire Podcast, we cover the ins and outs of cutting your own Christmas tree with Jennifer Diamond, Fire Mitigation Specialist with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Carson City District, and Tessa Putz with the University of Nevada, Reno Extension. They explain how cutting your own Christmas tree can help restore Nevada's rangelands and thin-out overgrown landscapes, reducing the risk of high-intensity wildfire. Diamond also shares how to get your permit, what the rules are and some tips for cutting your tree on BLM lands in Nevada. Learn more below.
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas tree on Bureau of Land Management land in Nevada go to https://forestproducts.blm.gov/
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas Tree in the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest go to https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/htnf/home/?cid=FSEPRD564027
For more full episode details including the transcript, visit https://www.buzzsprout.com/1819551/episodes/9653485
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Megan Kay (00:19):
Welcome to the Living with Fire Podcast where we share
stories and resources to helpyou live more safely with
wildfire. Hi. I'm your host,Megan Kay and the Outreach
Coordinator for the Living withFire Program. And I'm joined by
my boss, Jamie Roice-Gomes, Hi,Jamie.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (00:36):
Hi Megan.
Megan Kay (00:38):
So we are here to talk about the podcast that
you're about to listen to, whichis about cutting your own
Christmas tree on BLM land inCarson City. So we talked with
or not Carson City, sorry, theCarson Range District, which we
kind of talked about. You'llhear in the podcast how far that
(00:59):
reaches. But our guest was wegot to talk with Jen Diamond,
who's a mitigation expert atBLM. And we're also joined by
Tessa Putz, who works for Livingwith Fire as a Natural Resource
Associate. And so they kind oftalk about the ecology and
everything you need to knowabout cutting your Christmas
(01:22):
tree. Does that make sense? Whatam I missing Jamie?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (01:25):
No, that makes sense. I think it's
typically. We've only talkedabout cutting down Christmas
trees in the US Forest Service,Humboldt-Toiyabi area. But I
really like how we havebroadened our information range,
and we've we are now talkingabout cutting down the different
(01:48):
trees in the Bureau of LandManagement and land and so I
think it was a really greatinformational and interesting
podcast for folks.
Megan Kay (02:03):
Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the episode.
Tessa Putz (02:07):
Hi everyone. My name is Tessa Putz. I'm a Natural
Resources Associate with theLiving with Fire Program, and my
work mainly focuses on thescience communication side, so I
do a lot of work translating anddistilling current science into
(02:28):
educational resources like factsheets or guides or websites.
And so a big part of what I'mworking on right now is the
Pinyon-Juniper EncroachmentEducation Program. So I yeah, so
I will. I've learned a lot aboutthat, and have a lot to Yeah,
Megan Kay (02:45):
you. And that ties in a lot to with what we're talking
talk about.
today, talking about today. Andthen, so Jen, do you mind
introducing us and letting usknow your what you what you do,
your job title? And then if youdon't mind going into a little
bit of kind of your history andhow you got to your position.
Jennifer Diamond (03:03):
Okay so, yeah, thanks for having me today. My
name is Jennifer Diamond, and Iwork for the Bureau of Land
Management as a Fire PreventionEducation Mitigation Specialist.
So pretty long title. That'sbecause we kind of cover a lot
of different things, so I goaround and try to educate the
(03:27):
public on how they can help withfire prevention. So I go to
schools and events and do socialmedia to get the word out on
what our causes are and how wecan help prevent them. And so I
also investigate fires so that Ican determine what the cause is,
(03:48):
so we know where to focus ourefforts. I also am a Public
Information Officer, so thatjust kind of all goes hand in
hand with trying to relay themessage out to the public, and
just a really big advocate formitigation work. And what we are
(04:09):
doing out there on BLM,administered plans. And kind of
how I got into this position isI have 18 years with the Forest
Service. I just recently leftthat position as a Fire
Prevention Officer, which isvery similar to the position
(04:29):
that I'm doing right now. Andprior to that, I have worked on
engines and hand crews and didsome time with the fire use
module. So I did somesuppression work for about nine
years before I got intoprevention.
Megan Kay (04:52):
I've really enjoyed working with you, by the way,
since I've been here.
Jennifer Diamond (04:55):
Ah, thank you.
I really enjoy working with allof you at Living with Fire.
Megan Kay (04:59):
Aw, thank. Thank you.
So we're here today to kind ofpick your brain about the
Christmas tree cutting program.
So for people who aren't awarethis, this program exists on
public lands, so BLM and ForestService lands, and it's program
where people can buy permits andgo cut their own Christmas tree.
(05:21):
And I, at least that's what Iknow about it. But I wanted to
ask you the expert, could youkind of just explain what the
what the program is?
Jennifer Diamond (05:30):
Yeah, so just kind of like you said, by
obtaining a permit, that programallows the purchaser to cut
trees on Bureau of LandManagement administered plans.
The permits are specifically forpinyon pine and junipers. That's
the only tree species that isallowed to be harvested with
(05:51):
this kind of permit on BLMlands. So the Christmas tree
cutting program is also used tothin the range lands in those
dense areas, those unhealthystands of trees, we can get in
there and just kind of thin itout by allowing the the range
(06:15):
lands users to get in there andand take a tree. It also better
assists firefighters withreaching fire containment. The
less vegetation that we have outthere that are all encroaching
upon each other. It ultimatelyhelps slow the fire spread, and
it also opens up areas forwildlife to forage so there's a
(06:42):
multi purpose here where we areallowing people to have that
adventure of getting theirChristmas tree, and also
reducing the fuels out there forfirefighters and for the public
to ultimately be more safe andhoping to slow the fire spread.
Megan Kay (07:03):
Just out of curiosity, do you know how many
people participate and cut treesdown? Maybe from your experience
with the Forest Service as well.
Jennifer Diamond (07:11):
I want to say on Carson City District, I heard
somewhere around 1600 permitsare generally issued for BLM
Carson City District. I can'treally put a number or speak to
the other areas.
Megan Kay (07:27):
That's a lot of trees, that's a lot of thinning
that could possibly be done.
Jennifer Diamond (07:32):
Yeah it is.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:34):
And Jen, when you say the Carson City
District, do you that's whereyou work, right?
Jennifer Diamond (07:42):
It is, I wasn't specific to that in the
beginning, wasn't I?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:47):
Would you mind telling folks where the
Carson City District is?
Jennifer Diamond (07:51):
Yeah. So the Carson City district runs all up
and down the Sierra front andall the way east towards Austin,
almost so it covers a reallylarge area.
Megan Kay (08:12):
84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people.
If you're planning on headingout and enjoying public lands,
visit nevadafireinfo.org andlearn how you can recreate
responsibly and do your part toprevent wildfires.
So my next question for youwould be, and you definitely
(08:34):
covered this, but if you haveanything to add, go for it. But
it was just, how does treecutting impact the range and
ecosystems? And just kind ofexplain, explain why it's good
for the ecosystem to do, to cutyour own Christmas tree and to
(08:54):
go in there. I think it's Ithink it's great that it it
makes sense to me that it forwildfire risk mitigation,
reducing the risk and going inthere and getting rid of those,
those hazardous fields. But asfar as you know, myself, I'm
kind of a layman when it comesto to ecology. I'm learning,
(09:15):
yeah, it could you drop someknowledge about just the the
effect that it has on theecosystem.
Jennifer Diamond (09:21):
So I guess I like to look at it as it's a
part of active forestmanagement, and that overall is
good for the ecosystems. It's animportant part of, like you
said, reducing the risk of firein the forest or range lands,
and to make the range landshealthier overall. And so by
(09:44):
allowing, like a small harvestof trees over an area, can
improve the range lands by doingthat thinning like we were
talking about, and we do asimilar thing on a much larger
scale. Scale with our FuelsProgram. So we have projects all
over the state working to reducefuels. And so I kind of look at
(10:08):
it from a fire preventionmitigation standpoint, as that's
what this program is doing on alittle bit of a smaller scale
there. So when you talk about,you know, it being healthy. All
of those trees out there areultimately competing with one
another. So many of them willultimately die from kind of
(10:34):
fighting each other for the samesunlight and and water. So by
fitting them, the ones that weleave behind are going to be
much healthier than if we leftthem crowded and fighting for
survival. So when you do go outthere and pick a tree, it's best
(10:55):
to pick one from an area that isover stocked and really dense,
just a little thicket area, ifyou can find a nice one in
there, that's the best to do. Sothat we're we're reaching that
goal of creating some spacingbetween the trees.
Megan Kay (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great point, because I feel like when
people are going out to cuttheir Christmas trees. They're
probably not thinking aboutthat. They're just thinking
about, you know, what's theprettiest tree that they want to
take home? So I also wanted tokind of pivot and ask Tessa some
questions about pinion andjuniper encroachment on the
(11:37):
rangelands, because that's yourspecialty.
Tessa Putz (11:39):
Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd love to speak to that a
little bit. Jen brings up somereally great points about, you
know, managing the landscape.
And in either case, you know,we're we need to manage both
landscapes, both ecosystems, forresilience. And so, you know, we
have Pinyon-Juniper woodlandexpanding into the sagebrush
(12:03):
rangelands, and they're outcompeting the shrubs and the
grasses and forbs for the, youknow, the resources that Jen
talked about, the you know,water and sunlight and
nutrients. You know, trees havethese wide reaching, far
reaching roots, and they canacquire a lot of these resources
(12:28):
much more easily than the shrubsand herbaceous plants do. And
so, yeah, so these are sagebrushseas are really threatened by
encroachment and but they, youknow, they have their own value.
They support, you know, a lot ofecosystem services like carbon
(12:52):
sequestration and soilstability. And they also
provide, you know, a lot ofhabitat for wildlife. We all
know. A lot of us probably knowabout the sage grouse, but
there's many other species thatare specifically dependent upon
and then also, like the game,that use it as well. They'll use
(13:12):
the woodland, and they'll usethe sagebrush ecosystems as
well. And so, yeah, it's, it'simportant, but to, you know, to
improve the resilience of thesage brush, but then also the
the woodland as well. You know,within filling we've had, you
(13:33):
know, these forests become a lotmore dense. And yeah, we need
to, you know, in, in these,under these, you know, more
stressful conditions that we'reseeing, we need to reduce the
number of trees, which, youknow, by cutting, having people
come in and cut. That's a greatway, great way to do that.
Megan Kay (13:56):
Yeah, I was always this just as an anecdote when I
was getting out, you know, firstsort of discovering Nevada as an
adult, and like going out intothe to the country, in the back
country, I didn't reallyunderstand the term rangeland,
because to me, it always it justseemed like a forest. And then
now that I'm getting Iunderstand, like the background
(14:17):
in the ecology a little bit, andthe encroachment of these pinyon
and pinyon trees and junipers.
It's like, okay, so there's, itwasn't meant to be, like, dense,
dense stands of pinyon andjuniper Not, not necessarily. So
it's, it's been interesting toit's like a shift, because it's
what I was used to growing up.
You know, it's like, I'm usedto, this is just the the
(14:38):
landscape. And then when youthink about it in terms of,
like, these are actuallyencroaching and sucking up all
the water out of the soil, andit's really kind of a paradigm
shift, and like, the way I lookat Nevada and the landscape. So
thank you guys for giving thebackground on on that ecology.
(14:59):
I. Think that we did talk a lotabout the what thinning and
cutting these trees does forhazardous wildland fuel
mitigation, and to kind ofunpack that term, meaning that
that build up of all thesehazardous fuels creates
potential fuel for wildfire. Isaid that really poorly. So
(15:22):
maybe Jen, you could unpack thatterm for everybody, just the the
term of just hazardous wildlandfuels. And then also, if you
wanted to add anything more tohow cutting your Christmas tree
helps with that effort.
Jennifer Diamond (15:35):
Okay, yeah. So when we talk about hazardous
fuels and reducing fuels, andthese projects that we're doing,
the objective there is to removeenough vegetation so that when a
wildfire does burn in that area,it's less severe and can be more
easily managed. So when thatvegetation accumulates, it
(15:58):
allows fires to burn muchhotter, much faster. The flame
lengths are higher, the embersget thrown into the next stand
of vegetation. So by by clearingout some of those small trees
out of those dense areas, it'sjust helping and reducing those
(16:20):
odds of those embers carrying itinto the next stand of
vegetation. So that's kind ofwhat we mean when we talk about
reducing fuels and having thatspacing in between each other.
And so like I mentioned earlier,we we have a Fuels program that
works on reducing the excessvegetation, and they work
(16:43):
through various projects such asmastication, chipping, building
hand piles to burn, doingbroadcast prescribed burns,
having firewood cutting permitprogram, and also by harvesting
(17:05):
small trees, such as thisChristmas tree program. So
that's kind of multiple waysthat we do reduction fuels work.
And so for those families thatare chopping down their own
trees, they're kind of, they'recontributing to doing that part
(17:26):
in thinning out the arrangementsin the forest. So we're kind of
killing two birds with one stonethere. If you say that.
Megan Kay (17:39):
I love that idea, and I feel like people would love
that as well. I am inspired todo it so, and I've never done it
before, so I want to move on totalking about sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree. But before I do,
I wanted to give you guys likeJamie and Tessa a chance to add
anything else about just sort ofthe fuels or the ecology portion
(18:02):
of it, if you have anythingelse.
Tessa Putz (18:04):
Yeah, I think one thing that is really interesting
to think about is that with atleast on the encroachment side,
that, as you know, Woodlandexpands, the the fire regime
really changes. So with, youknow, encouraging trees, both
(18:28):
the fuel structure and theamount changes. And so, you
know, more trees obviously leadsto more fuel and more litter,
and more down would, but there'sthis change from more patchy
surface fire that's not ascontinuous like within the
(18:50):
shrubs, to with trees, firethat's in the canopy. And this
connection from surface fires tocamp canopy fires that are
often, often need more extremefire weather conditions to
occur, and then when they dooccur, there's more
connectivity. And so, you know,if we can, you know, reduce the
(19:15):
fuel loads, like the many waysthat Jen talked about, reduce
encroachment, that all of thatis really important to do, so
that we decrease high severitywildfires, or at least the
potential for them.
Megan Kay (19:36):
Communities located in wildfire prone areas need to
take extra measures to livesafely. There are many ways to
prepare communities andproperties for wildfire,
including creating andmaintaining adequate defensible
space and hardening homes towithstand wildfire. This could
mean altering or replacingcertain components of the home.
Our wildfire home retrofit guidewill help you better prepare
your home and communities forwildfire. You can find the guide
(19:59):
and the resources. Section ofour website at
livingwithfire.com,
Jamie Roice-Gomes (20:06):
I think maybe we should clarify, like, like,
some terms that folks might notknow, like, what's a canopy,
what's herbaceous, what'smastication. Maybe we can give
like, a little couple sentence,you know, explanation what those
things are.
Megan Kay (20:25):
Yeah, so, Jen, do you mind talking about mastication?
Since you brought it up.
Jennifer Diamond (20:29):
Sure, mastication is a way that we can
reduce the fuels by usingmechanical equipment. So for
instance, we might bring in, Iam forgetting the name of the
the actual piece of equipmentthat can basically munch down
(20:51):
all of the vegetation down tothe surface.
Megan Kay (20:56):
That was called a masticator.
Jennifer Diamond (20:58):
Oh yeah, there's another piece of
equipment that I'm thinking ofbesides that.
Megan Kay (21:08):
And it has like the mini blades on it, basically,
right? And yeah, it kind of likemows through and chops it up and
crunches it over, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (21:15):
It does. And so it just kind of eats it up,
it makes it real small and takesit down to the surface level.
Megan Kay (21:23):
Yeah, which is something that people don't
think of like that sort ofmechanical treatment, for sure.
And then herbaceous. Tessa youwant to take that one?
Tessa Putz (21:36):
Yeah. I Yes. I brought that up. So that just
refers to the more leafy plantsthat are growing with the shrub.
So that's the grasses and theforbes, which are the, you know,
some of more of the wild flowersthat we see. And so those all
grow in these sagebrushrangelands, and are really
(21:59):
important because they providefood and habitat for for
animals, for wildlife. And thenI and then I also mentioned
canopy, so the canopy, canopyfires are basically in the tops
of trees. Is where that thoseoccur.
Megan Kay (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Good call. Jamie,
yeah. Sometimes I get, I forget.
You know that these, theseterms, are sort of jargony. So
listener, you're, I don't knowif they'll if I'll include this
little, my little speech here,but for the listeners out there.
Bear with us. Cool. So if, ifthere, if there's anything else,
(22:46):
I'll try to, I'll try to keepthat in mind. So I might
interrupt folks if those thingsdo come up in the future. So the
next thing I wanted to talkabout are just sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree for folks who
maybe have never done it before.
And so those might include howto get your permits, or what are
(23:09):
the rules in the etiquette, andthen just kind of things that
you need. And I just fromtalking with you, Jen, I feel
like you're the expert, not justbecause it's your job, because
you have experience cutting thetrees. So I was wondering, so I
will, I'm just going to defer toyou tell us what to do when
we're going to when we're goingto cut around Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (23:30):
So first you're going to want to find
out, I guess, how to get, how toget a permit. So you can go to
forestproducts.blm.gov, andsearch for Nevada, and then the
district that you choose toobtain a permit from. So first
you get that permit, and thenyou you're going to want to,
(23:53):
well, first of all, know thatyou can only get indian pine and
junipers, and then know, pick anarea that you want to go travel
in, and then know, know what theweather forecast is like.
Because, you know, it's always agood idea when heading into the
woods at any time of the year,but especially in winter time,
(24:17):
to just know what that weatheris going to be like. And I know
that I've ran into that a coupleof times just trying to beat a
storm and trying to time itright, so that I know that the
roads are safe to travel on, andI'm not going to be cutting a
tree in a blizzard with a bunchof wind. So know the weather,
(24:39):
and I always pack, you know, Imean, like you're going to be
out in in the cold, so a hat, ajacket, gloves, typical winter
clothing. I also bring, ofcourse, it's going to be
probably a pretty long day. So Ibring. Food, and I bring water
(25:03):
anytime you're operating somekind of saw or equipment. It's a
good idea to have a first aidkit. And then once you cut your
tree, you're going to needsomething to bring it home with
and to secure it. So bring sometype of heavy rope or tie downs
(25:24):
to secure it in your vehicle.
Also when traveling on on dirtroads in the winter time, just I
always like to bring a shovel oreven chains, if you're going to
need chains on your vehicle,yeah, just just in case that the
(25:47):
weather isn't exactly how youplanned. But I try to kind of go
around that storm if there isone,
Megan Kay (25:57):
Yeah, don't, don't even risk it.
Jennifer Diamond (25:59):
Right. Yeah, just kind of know that some of
those areas that you're used toseeing might be inaccessible by
the time you choose to get outthere, so it looks a little
different after there's snow onthe ground, and then just once
(26:20):
you're out there and you doactually cut the tree that you
choose, the stumps cannot be anyhigher than six inches from the
ground, and they should be cutlevel. So a lot of people like
to maybe put a slash cut in itso that it's diagonal, so that
(26:42):
they can kind of push it over.
And that's nice to get the treeon the ground, but after you do
that, go back and cut it asclose to the ground and as level
and parallel to the ground thatthat you can and that's to avoid
tripping hazards for the nextperson that's walking around out
(27:04):
there, just not nice to seesomething sharp sticking out of
the ground like that,
Megan Kay (27:12):
Yeah. And especially if it's not, then sort of blunt
cut and it's just at a angle,it's just like a spike sticking
out of the ground. So not safefor the next person.
Jennifer Diamond (27:26):
Yeah. And then I always kind of look in the
tree to make sure that there'snot a nest or any little
critters living in there. Don'twant to take a home from
something. And then once you docut the tree, and maybe there's
some limbs or green branchesthat that you you don't want,
(27:50):
you know, on the bottom to stickit into your Christmas tree
stand. Just make sure that youscatter those limbs around.
Don't just pile them all in onearea. Just kind of looks more
natural. If they're they'rescattered out there.
Megan Kay (28:08):
Have you guys, Jamie and Tessa? Have you guys ever
cut your own Christmas tree?
Tessa Putz (28:11):
No, but I can't wait to.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:15):
Yeah, I have, but I've never cut it on BLM
lands before. I typically havegotten a US Forest Service
permit because I want to get afur to cut.
Jennifer Diamond (28:28):
Yeah, me too.
Megan Kay (28:29):
I like pines. I like pine. My family always got pines
so, so it's like, it kind ofmakes sense that it's, I guess
it's your, your taste. You know,do you guys have any, do you
have any tips then, Jamie, anythings that, anything that came
up from your experience that youthink might be helpful for
someone who's maybe trying itfor the first time?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:49):
You know, I mean, it's, you're, you're
probably going to be going, youknow, off roading and bring
chains if you have a truck. It'sobviously easier than, like, a
small SUV. I have a small SUV.
And I, I mean, I really want totruck, because I really hate
putting my Christmas tree on topof my small SUV. But it happens,
you know, that's, that's what wehave. It's two we have. So I
(29:13):
just ensure to have, you know,tie downs and bring boots and a
coat. It's always colder thanyou think it's going to be.
Megan Kay (29:26):
You know.
Jennifer Diamond (29:26):
Yeah. And if you do have to stick it inside
your vehicle, it's pretty handyto have a sheet or a tarp or
something to lay it on to kindof help with the sap, the
needles being in the sap andjust the mess that's left
behind, and to, like, yank itout of there.
Megan Kay (29:45):
Yeah I was about to say it's like, like, a little
bit of a tool to help you andget it out of there.
Jennifer Diamond (29:50):
Yeah. And then Jamie mentioned roads, and I
just wanted to kind of highlightusing the existing roads and
well traveled roads. And. Or notto create your own or to drive
on one that maybe somebody elsehas created and it looks like a
road, because that just causesresource damage, and so just
(30:16):
take a map or don't rely on GPSsystems, but having them is
handy to just help you out with,what are those maintained roads
and what are the more welltraveled roads?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (30:34):
Jen, what like what time period does this
Christmas tree permit programrun?
Jennifer Diamond (30:43):
Yeah, so it is open now until December 24th.
Megan Kay (30:47):
In case you want to get that last last, last minute
Christmas tree. I mean, whoknows? Like, you can think of
many circumstances that thatmight happen, you know.
Jennifer Diamond (31:00):
Yeah. And also know that when you are out there
and you do get your permit,there is a stipulation page and
a permit that must be in thepermit to use possession while
gathering and transporting thetree. So make sure that you
attach that like think it's anadhesive permit to the tree so
(31:22):
it can be seen by a person fromoutside of the vehicle.
Megan Kay (31:28):
Great tip. Yeah, awesome. So I feel like, if you
know, I have all the knowledge Ineed now to go cut my Christmas
tree for the first time. Thankyou so much for coming on and
sharing all your knowledge.
Thank you, Tessa, for joining usand Jamie, as always, you're
like, always have the bestquestions, the things that I
don't think of.
Jennifer Diamond (31:52):
I have a couple more that I just thought
of. The cost is $5, $5.
Megan Kay (32:00):
$5 for a Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (32:02):
Not bad. And then, if you do choose to use a
power saw, make sure that youhave a working spark arrester.
It's required to have one. Andthen just make sure that you, if
you have any garbage out there,and bring a garbage bag with you
(32:24):
so that you're not leavingbehind any litter. It must all
be removed.
Megan Kay (32:28):
Yeah, and yeah, the spark arrester, it just makes me
think of what we kind of talkedabout off mic earlier, about how
it's still dry out there, likewe still we haven't had as much
precipitation as I feel likepeople want. So, you know, keep
in mind that the temperaturesare still higher than normal,
and it is still dry, and thereis still potential for sparking
(32:49):
a wildfire when you go out intothe rangelands.
Jennifer Diamond (32:53):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Megan Kay (32:56):
Well, that's all I had. I'd like to thank you all
for being here. And do you guyshave anything else you'd like to
add?
Jennifer Diamond (33:04):
No, well, if you do go out there and get a
Christmas tree, you'll be sureto make a lot of memories,
because I know every single timeI've gone, it's a story to tell,
and it's quite an adventure. Sobring it out. Never know what's
(33:24):
gonna happen.
Megan Kay (33:28):
Thank you for listening to the Living with
Fire Podcast. You can find morestories about wildfire and other
resources at livingwithfire.comthe Living with Fire Program is
funded by the University ofNevada, Reno Extension, Nevada
Division of Forestry, Bureau ofLand Management and the United
States Forest Service.
Welcome to the Living with Fire Podcast where we share
stories and resources to helpyou live more safely with
wildfire. Hi. I'm your host,Megan Kay and the Outreach
Coordinator for the Living withFire Program. And I'm joined by
my boss, Jamie Roice-Gomes, Hi,Jamie.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (00:36):
Hi Megan.
Megan Kay (00:38):
So we are here to talk about the podcast that
you're about to listen to, whichis about cutting your own
Christmas tree on BLM land inCarson City. So we talked with
or not Carson City, sorry, theCarson Range District, which we
kind of talked about. You'llhear in the podcast how far that
(00:59):
reaches. But our guest was wegot to talk with Jen Diamond,
who's a mitigation expert atBLM. And we're also joined by
Tessa Putz, who works for Livingwith Fire as a Natural Resource
Associate. And so they kind oftalk about the ecology and
everything you need to knowabout cutting your Christmas
(01:22):
tree. Does that make sense? Whatam I missing Jamie?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (01:25):
No, that makes sense. I think it's
typically. We've only talkedabout cutting down Christmas
trees in the US Forest Service,Humboldt-Toiyabi area. But I
really like how we havebroadened our information range,
and we've we are now talkingabout cutting down the different
(01:48):
trees in the Bureau of LandManagement and land and so I
think it was a really greatinformational and interesting
podcast for folks.
Megan Kay (02:03):
Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the episode.
Tessa Putz (02:07):
Hi everyone. My name is Tessa Putz. I'm a Natural
Resources Associate with theLiving with Fire Program, and my
work mainly focuses on thescience communication side, so I
do a lot of work translating anddistilling current science into
(02:28):
educational resources like factsheets or guides or websites.
And so a big part of what I'mworking on right now is the
Pinyon-Juniper EncroachmentEducation Program. So I yeah, so
I will. I've learned a lot aboutthat, and have a lot to Yeah,
Megan Kay (02:45):
you. And that ties in a lot to with what we're talking
talk about.
today, talking about today. Andthen, so Jen, do you mind
introducing us and letting usknow your what you what you do,
your job title? And then if youdon't mind going into a little
bit of kind of your history andhow you got to your position.
Jennifer Diamond (03:03):
Okay so, yeah, thanks for having me today. My
name is Jennifer Diamond, and Iwork for the Bureau of Land
Management as a Fire PreventionEducation Mitigation Specialist.
So pretty long title. That'sbecause we kind of cover a lot
of different things, so I goaround and try to educate the
(03:27):
public on how they can help withfire prevention. So I go to
schools and events and do socialmedia to get the word out on
what our causes are and how wecan help prevent them. And so I
also investigate fires so that Ican determine what the cause is,
(03:48):
so we know where to focus ourefforts. I also am a Public
Information Officer, so thatjust kind of all goes hand in
hand with trying to relay themessage out to the public, and
just a really big advocate formitigation work. And what we are
(04:09):
doing out there on BLM,administered plans. And kind of
how I got into this position isI have 18 years with the Forest
Service. I just recently leftthat position as a Fire
Prevention Officer, which isvery similar to the position
(04:29):
that I'm doing right now. Andprior to that, I have worked on
engines and hand crews and didsome time with the fire use
module. So I did somesuppression work for about nine
years before I got intoprevention.
Megan Kay (04:52):
I've really enjoyed working with you, by the way,
since I've been here.
Jennifer Diamond (04:55):
Ah, thank you.
I really enjoy working with allof you at Living with Fire.
Megan Kay (04:59):
Aw, thank. Thank you.
So we're here today to kind ofpick your brain about the
Christmas tree cutting program.
So for people who aren't awarethis, this program exists on
public lands, so BLM and ForestService lands, and it's program
where people can buy permits andgo cut their own Christmas tree.
(05:21):
And I, at least that's what Iknow about it. But I wanted to
ask you the expert, could youkind of just explain what the
what the program is?
Jennifer Diamond (05:30):
Yeah, so just kind of like you said, by
obtaining a permit, that programallows the purchaser to cut
trees on Bureau of LandManagement administered plans.
The permits are specifically forpinyon pine and junipers. That's
the only tree species that isallowed to be harvested with
(05:51):
this kind of permit on BLMlands. So the Christmas tree
cutting program is also used tothin the range lands in those
dense areas, those unhealthystands of trees, we can get in
there and just kind of thin itout by allowing the the range
(06:15):
lands users to get in there andand take a tree. It also better
assists firefighters withreaching fire containment. The
less vegetation that we have outthere that are all encroaching
upon each other. It ultimatelyhelps slow the fire spread, and
it also opens up areas forwildlife to forage so there's a
(06:42):
multi purpose here where we areallowing people to have that
adventure of getting theirChristmas tree, and also
reducing the fuels out there forfirefighters and for the public
to ultimately be more safe andhoping to slow the fire spread.
Megan Kay (07:03):
Just out of curiosity, do you know how many
people participate and cut treesdown? Maybe from your experience
with the Forest Service as well.
Jennifer Diamond (07:11):
I want to say on Carson City District, I heard
somewhere around 1600 permitsare generally issued for BLM
Carson City District. I can'treally put a number or speak to
the other areas.
Megan Kay (07:27):
That's a lot of trees, that's a lot of thinning
that could possibly be done.
Jennifer Diamond (07:32):
Yeah it is.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:34):
And Jen, when you say the Carson City
District, do you that's whereyou work, right?
Jennifer Diamond (07:42):
It is, I wasn't specific to that in the
beginning, wasn't I?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (07:47):
Would you mind telling folks where the
Carson City District is?
Jennifer Diamond (07:51):
Yeah. So the Carson City district runs all up
and down the Sierra front andall the way east towards Austin,
almost so it covers a reallylarge area.
Megan Kay (08:12):
84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people.
If you're planning on headingout and enjoying public lands,
visit nevadafireinfo.org andlearn how you can recreate
responsibly and do your part toprevent wildfires.
So my next question for youwould be, and you definitely
(08:34):
covered this, but if you haveanything to add, go for it. But
it was just, how does treecutting impact the range and
ecosystems? And just kind ofexplain, explain why it's good
for the ecosystem to do, to cutyour own Christmas tree and to
(08:54):
go in there. I think it's Ithink it's great that it it
makes sense to me that it forwildfire risk mitigation,
reducing the risk and going inthere and getting rid of those,
those hazardous fields. But asfar as you know, myself, I'm
kind of a layman when it comesto to ecology. I'm learning,
(09:15):
yeah, it could you drop someknowledge about just the the
effect that it has on theecosystem.
Jennifer Diamond (09:21):
So I guess I like to look at it as it's a
part of active forestmanagement, and that overall is
good for the ecosystems. It's animportant part of, like you
said, reducing the risk of firein the forest or range lands,
and to make the range landshealthier overall. And so by
(09:44):
allowing, like a small harvestof trees over an area, can
improve the range lands by doingthat thinning like we were
talking about, and we do asimilar thing on a much larger
scale. Scale with our FuelsProgram. So we have projects all
over the state working to reducefuels. And so I kind of look at
(10:08):
it from a fire preventionmitigation standpoint, as that's
what this program is doing on alittle bit of a smaller scale
there. So when you talk about,you know, it being healthy. All
of those trees out there areultimately competing with one
another. So many of them willultimately die from kind of
(10:34):
fighting each other for the samesunlight and and water. So by
fitting them, the ones that weleave behind are going to be
much healthier than if we leftthem crowded and fighting for
survival. So when you do go outthere and pick a tree, it's best
(10:55):
to pick one from an area that isover stocked and really dense,
just a little thicket area, ifyou can find a nice one in
there, that's the best to do. Sothat we're we're reaching that
goal of creating some spacingbetween the trees.
Megan Kay (11:17):
Yeah, that's a great point, because I feel like when
people are going out to cuttheir Christmas trees. They're
probably not thinking aboutthat. They're just thinking
about, you know, what's theprettiest tree that they want to
take home? So I also wanted tokind of pivot and ask Tessa some
questions about pinion andjuniper encroachment on the
(11:37):
rangelands, because that's yourspecialty.
Tessa Putz (11:39):
Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd love to speak to that a
little bit. Jen brings up somereally great points about, you
know, managing the landscape.
And in either case, you know,we're we need to manage both
landscapes, both ecosystems, forresilience. And so, you know, we
have Pinyon-Juniper woodlandexpanding into the sagebrush
(12:03):
rangelands, and they're outcompeting the shrubs and the
grasses and forbs for the, youknow, the resources that Jen
talked about, the you know,water and sunlight and
nutrients. You know, trees havethese wide reaching, far
reaching roots, and they canacquire a lot of these resources
(12:28):
much more easily than the shrubsand herbaceous plants do. And
so, yeah, so these are sagebrushseas are really threatened by
encroachment and but they, youknow, they have their own value.
They support, you know, a lot ofecosystem services like carbon
(12:52):
sequestration and soilstability. And they also
provide, you know, a lot ofhabitat for wildlife. We all
know. A lot of us probably knowabout the sage grouse, but
there's many other species thatare specifically dependent upon
and then also, like the game,that use it as well. They'll use
(13:12):
the woodland, and they'll usethe sagebrush ecosystems as
well. And so, yeah, it's, it'simportant, but to, you know, to
improve the resilience of thesage brush, but then also the
the woodland as well. You know,within filling we've had, you
(13:33):
know, these forests become a lotmore dense. And yeah, we need
to, you know, in, in these,under these, you know, more
stressful conditions that we'reseeing, we need to reduce the
number of trees, which, youknow, by cutting, having people
come in and cut. That's a greatway, great way to do that.
Megan Kay (13:56):
Yeah, I was always this just as an anecdote when I
was getting out, you know, firstsort of discovering Nevada as an
adult, and like going out intothe to the country, in the back
country, I didn't reallyunderstand the term rangeland,
because to me, it always it justseemed like a forest. And then
now that I'm getting Iunderstand, like the background
(14:17):
in the ecology a little bit, andthe encroachment of these pinyon
and pinyon trees and junipers.
It's like, okay, so there's, itwasn't meant to be, like, dense,
dense stands of pinyon andjuniper Not, not necessarily. So
it's, it's been interesting toit's like a shift, because it's
what I was used to growing up.
You know, it's like, I'm usedto, this is just the the
(14:38):
landscape. And then when youthink about it in terms of,
like, these are actuallyencroaching and sucking up all
the water out of the soil, andit's really kind of a paradigm
shift, and like, the way I lookat Nevada and the landscape. So
thank you guys for giving thebackground on on that ecology.
(14:59):
I. Think that we did talk a lotabout the what thinning and
cutting these trees does forhazardous wildland fuel
mitigation, and to kind ofunpack that term, meaning that
that build up of all thesehazardous fuels creates
potential fuel for wildfire. Isaid that really poorly. So
(15:22):
maybe Jen, you could unpack thatterm for everybody, just the the
term of just hazardous wildlandfuels. And then also, if you
wanted to add anything more tohow cutting your Christmas tree
helps with that effort.
Jennifer Diamond (15:35):
Okay, yeah. So when we talk about hazardous
fuels and reducing fuels, andthese projects that we're doing,
the objective there is to removeenough vegetation so that when a
wildfire does burn in that area,it's less severe and can be more
easily managed. So when thatvegetation accumulates, it
(15:58):
allows fires to burn muchhotter, much faster. The flame
lengths are higher, the embersget thrown into the next stand
of vegetation. So by by clearingout some of those small trees
out of those dense areas, it'sjust helping and reducing those
(16:20):
odds of those embers carrying itinto the next stand of
vegetation. So that's kind ofwhat we mean when we talk about
reducing fuels and having thatspacing in between each other.
And so like I mentioned earlier,we we have a Fuels program that
works on reducing the excessvegetation, and they work
(16:43):
through various projects such asmastication, chipping, building
hand piles to burn, doingbroadcast prescribed burns,
having firewood cutting permitprogram, and also by harvesting
(17:05):
small trees, such as thisChristmas tree program. So
that's kind of multiple waysthat we do reduction fuels work.
And so for those families thatare chopping down their own
trees, they're kind of, they'recontributing to doing that part
(17:26):
in thinning out the arrangementsin the forest. So we're kind of
killing two birds with one stonethere. If you say that.
Megan Kay (17:39):
I love that idea, and I feel like people would love
that as well. I am inspired todo it so, and I've never done it
before, so I want to move on totalking about sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree. But before I do,
I wanted to give you guys likeJamie and Tessa a chance to add
anything else about just sort ofthe fuels or the ecology portion
(18:02):
of it, if you have anythingelse.
Tessa Putz (18:04):
Yeah, I think one thing that is really interesting
to think about is that with atleast on the encroachment side,
that, as you know, Woodlandexpands, the the fire regime
really changes. So with, youknow, encouraging trees, both
(18:28):
the fuel structure and theamount changes. And so, you
know, more trees obviously leadsto more fuel and more litter,
and more down would, but there'sthis change from more patchy
surface fire that's not ascontinuous like within the
(18:50):
shrubs, to with trees, firethat's in the canopy. And this
connection from surface fires tocamp canopy fires that are
often, often need more extremefire weather conditions to
occur, and then when they dooccur, there's more
connectivity. And so, you know,if we can, you know, reduce the
(19:15):
fuel loads, like the many waysthat Jen talked about, reduce
encroachment, that all of thatis really important to do, so
that we decrease high severitywildfires, or at least the
potential for them.
Megan Kay (19:36):
Communities located in wildfire prone areas need to
take extra measures to livesafely. There are many ways to
prepare communities andproperties for wildfire,
including creating andmaintaining adequate defensible
space and hardening homes towithstand wildfire. This could
mean altering or replacingcertain components of the home.
Our wildfire home retrofit guidewill help you better prepare
your home and communities forwildfire. You can find the guide
(19:59):
and the resources. Section ofour website at
livingwithfire.com,
Jamie Roice-Gomes (20:06):
I think maybe we should clarify, like, like,
some terms that folks might notknow, like, what's a canopy,
what's herbaceous, what'smastication. Maybe we can give
like, a little couple sentence,you know, explanation what those
things are.
Megan Kay (20:25):
Yeah, so, Jen, do you mind talking about mastication?
Since you brought it up.
Jennifer Diamond (20:29):
Sure, mastication is a way that we can
reduce the fuels by usingmechanical equipment. So for
instance, we might bring in, Iam forgetting the name of the
the actual piece of equipmentthat can basically munch down
(20:51):
all of the vegetation down tothe surface.
Megan Kay (20:56):
That was called a masticator.
Jennifer Diamond (20:58):
Oh yeah, there's another piece of
equipment that I'm thinking ofbesides that.
Megan Kay (21:08):
And it has like the mini blades on it, basically,
right? And yeah, it kind of likemows through and chops it up and
crunches it over, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (21:15):
It does. And so it just kind of eats it up,
it makes it real small and takesit down to the surface level.
Megan Kay (21:23):
Yeah, which is something that people don't
think of like that sort ofmechanical treatment, for sure.
And then herbaceous. Tessa youwant to take that one?
Tessa Putz (21:36):
Yeah. I Yes. I brought that up. So that just
refers to the more leafy plantsthat are growing with the shrub.
So that's the grasses and theforbes, which are the, you know,
some of more of the wild flowersthat we see. And so those all
grow in these sagebrushrangelands, and are really
(21:59):
important because they providefood and habitat for for
animals, for wildlife. And thenI and then I also mentioned
canopy, so the canopy, canopyfires are basically in the tops
of trees. Is where that thoseoccur.
Megan Kay (22:20):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Good call. Jamie,
yeah. Sometimes I get, I forget.
You know that these, theseterms, are sort of jargony. So
listener, you're, I don't knowif they'll if I'll include this
little, my little speech here,but for the listeners out there.
Bear with us. Cool. So if, ifthere, if there's anything else,
(22:46):
I'll try to, I'll try to keepthat in mind. So I might
interrupt folks if those thingsdo come up in the future. So the
next thing I wanted to talkabout are just sort of the ins
and outs of cutting your ownChristmas tree for folks who
maybe have never done it before.
And so those might include howto get your permits, or what are
(23:09):
the rules in the etiquette, andthen just kind of things that
you need. And I just fromtalking with you, Jen, I feel
like you're the expert, not justbecause it's your job, because
you have experience cutting thetrees. So I was wondering, so I
will, I'm just going to defer toyou tell us what to do when
we're going to when we're goingto cut around Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (23:30):
So first you're going to want to find
out, I guess, how to get, how toget a permit. So you can go to
forestproducts.blm.gov, andsearch for Nevada, and then the
district that you choose toobtain a permit from. So first
you get that permit, and thenyou you're going to want to,
(23:53):
well, first of all, know thatyou can only get indian pine and
junipers, and then know, pick anarea that you want to go travel
in, and then know, know what theweather forecast is like.
Because, you know, it's always agood idea when heading into the
woods at any time of the year,but especially in winter time,
(24:17):
to just know what that weatheris going to be like. And I know
that I've ran into that a coupleof times just trying to beat a
storm and trying to time itright, so that I know that the
roads are safe to travel on, andI'm not going to be cutting a
tree in a blizzard with a bunchof wind. So know the weather,
(24:39):
and I always pack, you know, Imean, like you're going to be
out in in the cold, so a hat, ajacket, gloves, typical winter
clothing. I also bring, ofcourse, it's going to be
probably a pretty long day. So Ibring. Food, and I bring water
(25:03):
anytime you're operating somekind of saw or equipment. It's a
good idea to have a first aidkit. And then once you cut your
tree, you're going to needsomething to bring it home with
and to secure it. So bring sometype of heavy rope or tie downs
(25:24):
to secure it in your vehicle.
Also when traveling on on dirtroads in the winter time, just I
always like to bring a shovel oreven chains, if you're going to
need chains on your vehicle,yeah, just just in case that the
(25:47):
weather isn't exactly how youplanned. But I try to kind of go
around that storm if there isone,
Megan Kay (25:57):
Yeah, don't, don't even risk it.
Jennifer Diamond (25:59):
Right. Yeah, just kind of know that some of
those areas that you're used toseeing might be inaccessible by
the time you choose to get outthere, so it looks a little
different after there's snow onthe ground, and then just once
(26:20):
you're out there and you doactually cut the tree that you
choose, the stumps cannot be anyhigher than six inches from the
ground, and they should be cutlevel. So a lot of people like
to maybe put a slash cut in itso that it's diagonal, so that
(26:42):
they can kind of push it over.
And that's nice to get the treeon the ground, but after you do
that, go back and cut it asclose to the ground and as level
and parallel to the ground thatthat you can and that's to avoid
tripping hazards for the nextperson that's walking around out
(27:04):
there, just not nice to seesomething sharp sticking out of
the ground like that,
Megan Kay (27:12):
Yeah. And especially if it's not, then sort of blunt
cut and it's just at a angle,it's just like a spike sticking
out of the ground. So not safefor the next person.
Jennifer Diamond (27:26):
Yeah. And then I always kind of look in the
tree to make sure that there'snot a nest or any little
critters living in there. Don'twant to take a home from
something. And then once you docut the tree, and maybe there's
some limbs or green branchesthat that you you don't want,
(27:50):
you know, on the bottom to stickit into your Christmas tree
stand. Just make sure that youscatter those limbs around.
Don't just pile them all in onearea. Just kind of looks more
natural. If they're they'rescattered out there.
Megan Kay (28:08):
Have you guys, Jamie and Tessa? Have you guys ever
cut your own Christmas tree?
Tessa Putz (28:11):
No, but I can't wait to.
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:15):
Yeah, I have, but I've never cut it on BLM
lands before. I typically havegotten a US Forest Service
permit because I want to get afur to cut.
Jennifer Diamond (28:28):
Yeah, me too.
Megan Kay (28:29):
I like pines. I like pine. My family always got pines
so, so it's like, it kind ofmakes sense that it's, I guess
it's your, your taste. You know,do you guys have any, do you
have any tips then, Jamie, anythings that, anything that came
up from your experience that youthink might be helpful for
someone who's maybe trying itfor the first time?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (28:49):
You know, I mean, it's, you're, you're
probably going to be going, youknow, off roading and bring
chains if you have a truck. It'sobviously easier than, like, a
small SUV. I have a small SUV.
And I, I mean, I really want totruck, because I really hate
putting my Christmas tree on topof my small SUV. But it happens,
you know, that's, that's what wehave. It's two we have. So I
(29:13):
just ensure to have, you know,tie downs and bring boots and a
coat. It's always colder thanyou think it's going to be.
Megan Kay (29:26):
You know.
Jennifer Diamond (29:26):
Yeah. And if you do have to stick it inside
your vehicle, it's pretty handyto have a sheet or a tarp or
something to lay it on to kindof help with the sap, the
needles being in the sap andjust the mess that's left
behind, and to, like, yank itout of there.
Megan Kay (29:45):
Yeah I was about to say it's like, like, a little
bit of a tool to help you andget it out of there.
Jennifer Diamond (29:50):
Yeah. And then Jamie mentioned roads, and I
just wanted to kind of highlightusing the existing roads and
well traveled roads. And. Or notto create your own or to drive
on one that maybe somebody elsehas created and it looks like a
road, because that just causesresource damage, and so just
(30:16):
take a map or don't rely on GPSsystems, but having them is
handy to just help you out with,what are those maintained roads
and what are the more welltraveled roads?
Jamie Roice-Gomes (30:34):
Jen, what like what time period does this
Christmas tree permit programrun?
Jennifer Diamond (30:43):
Yeah, so it is open now until December 24th.
Megan Kay (30:47):
In case you want to get that last last, last minute
Christmas tree. I mean, whoknows? Like, you can think of
many circumstances that thatmight happen, you know.
Jennifer Diamond (31:00):
Yeah. And also know that when you are out there
and you do get your permit,there is a stipulation page and
a permit that must be in thepermit to use possession while
gathering and transporting thetree. So make sure that you
attach that like think it's anadhesive permit to the tree so
(31:22):
it can be seen by a person fromoutside of the vehicle.
Megan Kay (31:28):
Great tip. Yeah, awesome. So I feel like, if you
know, I have all the knowledge Ineed now to go cut my Christmas
tree for the first time. Thankyou so much for coming on and
sharing all your knowledge.
Thank you, Tessa, for joining usand Jamie, as always, you're
like, always have the bestquestions, the things that I
don't think of.
Jennifer Diamond (31:52):
I have a couple more that I just thought
of. The cost is $5, $5.
Megan Kay (32:00):
$5 for a Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond (32:02):
Not bad. And then, if you do choose to use a
power saw, make sure that youhave a working spark arrester.
It's required to have one. Andthen just make sure that you, if
you have any garbage out there,and bring a garbage bag with you
(32:24):
so that you're not leavingbehind any litter. It must all
be removed.
Megan Kay (32:28):
Yeah, and yeah, the spark arrester, it just makes me
think of what we kind of talkedabout off mic earlier, about how
it's still dry out there, likewe still we haven't had as much
precipitation as I feel likepeople want. So, you know, keep
in mind that the temperaturesare still higher than normal,
and it is still dry, and thereis still potential for sparking
(32:49):
a wildfire when you go out intothe rangelands.
Jennifer Diamond (32:53):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Megan Kay (32:56):
Well, that's all I had. I'd like to thank you all
for being here. And do you guyshave anything else you'd like to
add?
Jennifer Diamond (33:04):
No, well, if you do go out there and get a
Christmas tree, you'll be sureto make a lot of memories,
because I know every single timeI've gone, it's a story to tell,
and it's quite an adventure. Sobring it out. Never know what's
(33:24):
gonna happen.
Megan Kay (33:28):
Thank you for listening to the Living with
Fire Podcast. You can find morestories about wildfire and other
resources at livingwithfire.comthe Living with Fire Program is
funded by the University ofNevada, Reno Extension, Nevada
Division of Forestry, Bureau ofLand Management and the United
States Forest Service.
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