October 29, 2024 • 32 mins
For the first installment of our series The Insurance Dilemma, we’re exploring the intersection of insurance and wildfire risk. Living With Fire Director Christina Restaino and Outreach Coordinator Megan Kaye sit down with the Deputy Commissioner of the Nevada Division of Insurance to discuss growing concerns about how wildfire risk is affecting insurance affordability and availability in Nevada.
Restaino highlights that rising costs go beyond affordability, saying, “It's becoming an environmental justice issue.” She explains that with the increasing cost of living, housing, and insurance, the question becomes, "How can we afford to live? Home prices are at an all-time high, interest rates are very high, homeowners' insurance is very high, and you start thinking—who can afford to live here?"
Todd Rich shares the Division of Insurance’s foundational mission: “to protect consumers in their dealings with insurance carriers.” He explains that wildfires became a significant challenge for insurance companies in 2017, and “science really hasn’t caught up to what the carriers are doing yet.” Companies are still adjusting models for where and how they write coverage and are not fully accounting for communities’ pre-fire mitigation efforts. Rich adds, “Carriers aren’t really giving credit yet, and they’re not giving credit for communities that have done a really good job.”
- For more information visit the consumer section of the Nevada Division of Insurance website at https://doi.nv.gov/Consumers/
- Here are consumer insurance tips from Todd Rich:
- Know Your Agent Options: Understand the difference between independent agents and captive market agents. Independent agents can offer policies from multiple insurance carriers, while captive agents represent only one carrier. Exploring both options can help you find the best coverage for your needs.
- Understand Your Policy: Carefully review the specifics of your insurance policy to ensure you’re aware of what is and isn’t covered. Pay special attention to whether smoke damage is included, as this may vary between policies and carriers.
- Know Your Agent Options: Understand the difference between independent agents and captive market agents. Independent agents can offer policies from multiple insurance carriers, while captive agents represent only one carrier. Exploring both options can help you find the best coverage for your needs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina (00:00):
It's it's becoming a an affordability issue. It's
becoming an environmentaljustice issue, right like that.
This is becoming a an issue inthe west of Okay, where can
people live? How can we affordto live? Houses are at all time
highs. Interest rates are veryhigh right now. Homeowners
(00:21):
Insurance is very high, and youstart thinking about, okay, who
can live here?
Megan (00:33):
This is the living with fire podcast brought to you by
the University of Nevada Renoextension. You
you. Hi there. Welcome back tothe living with fire podcast.
I'm your host. Megan Kaye,Outreach Coordinator for the
living with FIRE program, and weare super excited to be back
(00:53):
with some new episodes. This isour first episode of 2024 it's
one of a few that we've beenworking on about a very hot
topic right now, and that isinsurance doesn't seem very
exciting, but it's definitely anissue that's impacting a lot of
people in the West, especiallyin California, but it's starting
(01:13):
to have some impacts in Nevada.
And when I mean impacts, I'mtalking about rising homeowners
insurance rates, and in somecases, carriers making the
decision to not renew policiesfor some homeowners. So that is
definitely a challenge for folksliving or moving into, you know,
more higher fire hazard areashere in the west and in other
(01:34):
places all across the country,because wildfire is not just
limited to the West Coast. Onthis episode, you'll hear from
our fearless leader, Christinarustano. So
Christina (01:44):
my name is Christina rustano. I am an assistant
professor at UNR I focus onwildland fire and forest
resource issues.
Megan Kay (01:57):
So Christina herself lives in the wildland urban
interface, or the WUI, and shehas been experiencing impacts
from rising insurance costsherself.
Christina (02:07):
This is a, you know, this is a big, big topic that a
lot of us are worried about. Ihappen to live on the California
side, so just two miles over theborder, and so, you know, we're
already dealing with massiveinsurance cancelations and
extremely expensive insurance,and we know that it's happening
to our neighbors in theGardnerville, you know, in the
(02:30):
garnerville area also. So it'snot just, I mean, it's harder on
our side, but this still, it'sjust a big concern for everybody
right now, especially withextremely expensive houses and
extremely high interest rates,and then you add in high
insurance, and it's just like,wow, this is becoming a really
expensive place to live
Megan (02:51):
together. Christina and I interviewed Todd rich with the
Nevada Division of Insurance.
Todd Rich (02:55):
My name is Todd rich.
I serve as the DeputyCommissioner for the Division of
Insurance. The Division isresponsible for protecting
consumers. That's ourfoundational mission, is to
protect consumers in theirdealings with insurance
carriers.
Megan (03:10):
So part of our mission at living with fire is to help
communities address the growingchallenges of living with
wildfire. And insurance isdefinitely becoming one of those
challenges, it already is for alot of folks. So let's dive in
and learn a little more aboutit. Thanks. So I just gonna lead
(03:36):
with the kind of the bigquestion, which is, you know, it
like we're seeing in California,with folks with experiencing
rate increases, and in someareas, insurance companies just
completely pulling out from thefrom high fire housing areas. Is
that happening? Happening inNevada,
Todd Rich (03:55):
we're hearing some things, incline village,
Glenbrook, South Lake Tahoe,Montreux, some of these wooded
areas where consumers arefinding it difficult to get
coverage. We're not hearing thatthey cannot get coverage at all.
We are hearing from like condoassociations that their costs
have gone way up. And let mekind of level set to begin with.
(04:19):
I think it's important foreveryone to understand from a
from an industry perspective,the biggest issue facing
insurance companies right now isthe economic impact of climate
change. And so I know we've allseen, you know, increased
hurricanes on the east coast,but we're also seeing wind and
(04:40):
hail storms and the severity andthe frequency have increased.
We've seen tornadoes, we've seenmore flooding. We've seen huge
winters like we had, not thiswinter, but the last winter
before that. And now we'veintroduced kind of wildfire,
which used to be kind ofsomewhat. Limited to the west
(05:00):
coast and kind of more in theforested areas that no one lived
in, or that's more impactingwhere consumers live and people
have built homes andcommunities. So when you take
this all into totality, it'scaused a lot of losses for
insurance carriers, and sothey're starting to react by
(05:22):
being more cautious how theywrite coverage. Carriers have
the right to determine wherethey want to do business, and
like any other business, ifyou're losing a bunch of money,
you're probably going to changewhat you're doing. And
unfortunately, for consumersthat live in those areas, there
isn't an impact to them. Doesthat make sense? Yeah, it
Megan (05:41):
does something I wanted to touch on, because you brought
up these catastrophic disastersthat can happen, like tornadoes
and hurricanes, wildfire is alittle unique when you're
comparing it to these differentdisasters, because there are,
like, evidence based actionsthat homeowners can do to reduce
(06:03):
their risk is that moving theneedle at all with the insurance
carriers.
Todd Rich (06:08):
It hasn't really moved the needle yet. Wildfire
as a hazard as apparel in theinsurance world really didn't
get on the radar till 2017 2018typically, insurance carriers
looked at the risk of hurricanesand flooding, and they could
kind of manage that, becausethey kind of understood it. And
(06:28):
then as I think, things gotwarmer and things started drying
out more, we saw these hugewildfires. The science really
hasn't caught up to what thecarriers are doing yet. Like I
said it started in 2017 2018where it really hit their radar.
And more importantly, it hit thereinsurance companies. So
reinsurance provides a level ofexactly what it's called
(06:51):
reinsurance, which is anotherlevel. And they started having
massive losses because of allthese claims because of
wildfires. So then they startedlooking at, okay, what are the
models? What are we doing? Andso they're charging a lot more
for reinsurance to carriers suchas farmers and Allstate And
State Farm, so their costs havegone way up and the losses have
(07:13):
gone up. So they're looking toincrease rates and to really be,
I think, sensitive about wherethey write coverage. And you
know, we just did a big datacall for data ending at the end
of 23 and we still show that wehave a healthy insurance market,
even in Northern Nevada, even inplaces like incline, we've seen
(07:34):
carriers certainly step away.
And I think they're looking attheir concentration, and
rightfully so, because if youhad a ton of houses and incline
and there was a massive fire,you may not be able to pay all
those claims, because youwouldn't have enough money. So
they've got to be careful aboutwhere they're writing. And so I
think we're in this time ofwhere things are getting
(07:55):
resettled. But it's important tounderstand that, again, it's a
business, and they have to makethose determinations. And I
think mitigation and gettingback to your question, sorry,
I'm getting too far in the weedsa little bit, but mitigation
does work. We've seen it. Thescience works. But we also
(08:16):
learned, in this meeting lastweek, at least, I learned that
if there's say, six pieces ofmitigation you're doing for your
home, and that includesdefensible space, not having
shrubs right next to your house,maybe a wooden fence that comes
into your house, all thosethings, the vents that are open,
because we know embers can getinto those vents even after the
(08:38):
Fire has passed, they may burndown, you know, half an hour
later, but if you've only donesay, five of the six that house
can still burn down, somitigation has to be complete.
And the carriers aren't reallygiving credit yet, and they're
not really giving credit forcommunities that have done a
really good job. For example,incline village, I think, has
(09:00):
really stepped up their game interms of mitigation. But we're
not seeing the credits yet fromthe insurance companies, because
I don't think they're sold thatif there's a massive fire and
the winds are blowing at 6070,miles per hour, is that
mitigation going to stop thelosses? And the science is not
quite determined yet, becauseit's still fairly new. I
Megan (09:24):
mean, I don't know. I think I'm gonna push back on
that a little bit. I think thescience is there. So, I mean, I
understand what you're saying, Ithink, but I'm wondering what
your opinion is, if we reframedit as like the instead of the
science not being there, thenindustry not being like
familiarized with the science.
Christina, would you agree?
Christina (09:47):
I think that, you know, an argument could be made
that, yes, individual homes, themitigation has to be complete on
those homes, and the mitigationhas to be complete within those
neighborhoods as well, right? Soyou need. Like every house doing
it, every you know, thecommunity working together. But
I do think that we have evidenceto show that it's that it's it's
(10:11):
there. So I would also push backon I think that the science is
there. I think that insuranceisn't taking that science into
account because they're worriedabout costs.
Megan (10:27):
Let's take a break from our interview with Todd rich and
hear from a homeowner inNorthern Nevada who's been
dealing with rising insurancecosts and actually loss of
coverage in his area. I'm
Unknown (10:40):
Thomas Daley live in the estates at Mount rose off of
Mount rose Highway at Callahanroad.
Megan (10:47):
So a colleague of mine put me in touch with Tom, and I
was super excited for theopportunity to talk to someone
on the ground experiencingchallenges with wildfire
insurance, but I didn't realizethat Tom also came with this
pedigree of fire experience.
Well,
Unknown (11:03):
I started at 16 as a volunteer firefighter. Rose up
through those ranks. Was acareer firefighter in
Washington, DC, associate'sdegree in fire science,
bachelor's in political science,Master's in Public
Administration and Master's insafety. I was the head of fire
(11:25):
protection for NASA for fiveyears, Director of life safety
at Hilton Hotels Corporation,followed by a 25 year career
there and retired as a vicepresident in charge of safety
and security.
Megan (11:42):
Tom shared with us his perspective, and also give us
some insights into what he andhis neighbors are experiencing
right now.
Unknown (11:50):
Despite HOAs homeowners and the fire district all making
these tremendous improvements,insurance companies aren't
taking notice of it, everybody'sgetting either non renewed or
seeing their premiums increased.
Megan (12:03):
So if you're not familiar with the area, Tom's
neighborhood is kind of situatedat the base of a mountain, right
where a forested area kind ofturns into a more sagebrush
ecosystem, lots of
Unknown (12:17):
bitter brush, rabbit, brush, sagebrush.
Megan (12:20):
So this area we're describing is typically a high
fire hazard area, but it soundslike Tom and his neighbors have
done a lot of work to reducetheir risk.
Unknown (12:30):
And up here, since we moved here in oh six, after the
fire at South Lake in oh nine,neighbors got together and said
we got a problem. We got to fixit. And we've been spending
money and doing projects sinceoh nine, and I think we've
probably spent, if you includethe grant funds, over a million
(12:53):
dollars. And this is a communityof only 158 homes.
Megan (12:57):
So that's the 2007 Angora fire in South Lake Tahoe that
Tom mentioned. Since then, thecommunity has been doing a lot
of work, like you said, and itseems to have been recognized by
their local fire district. Wehave
Unknown (13:10):
had our fire hazard rating improved by Turkey
Meadows. Fire used to be high,now it's moderate. We have a
community wildfire protectionplan approved for the county,
the fire district and the stateforester. Tom
Megan (13:30):
says that at first, insurance companies in the area
were recognizing these effortsand even incentivizing them, and
it was resulting in lowerinsurance rates. But that's
changed
Unknown (13:41):
after we got our CWPP.
We got our CWPP, both farmersand Allstate reduced their
premiums, we gave them a ton ofthat, you know, ton of documents
to justify, and they did. Andthen that went on for three or
four years. And then Allstateraised their rates. And then
(14:02):
recently, Allstate failed torenew me here and some of my
neighbors as well not withAllstate. I think they were with
Geico or AAA. It
Megan (14:16):
sounds like his community has been working really hard for
a long time to adapt to livingin this high fire hazard area,
and they've taken a lot ofaction to reduce their wildfire
risk. But those efforts are notnecessarily being recognized by
insurance companies, and thatseems to be sending a message to
homeowners. This is the way Tomputs it,
Unknown (14:38):
if you want to do the work and you want to spend the
money, whether it's your yourown money or your homeowners
association money? You canimprove your score, but if you
improve your score and you don'tget any benefit from your
insurance company, it's sort ofa waste of effort.
Megan (14:57):
Let's take a quick break.
You. It. So I quickly justwanted to talk about us, the
living with Fire Program. Maybeyou found this podcast and
you're wondering, what is theliving with FIRE program? Well,
we've been around since 1997we're managed by the University
of Nevada, Reno extension, andwe're really a collaborative
effort amongst federal, stateand local fire districts and
(15:20):
land management agencies and wecreate resources and connect
communities and stakeholders tohelp them adapt, prepare and
live more safely with wildfire.
So if you haven't already, checkout our website,
livingwithfire.org for moreinformation. Okay, back to the
show you.
Christina (15:44):
What I am wondering is, does the Insurance
Commission have any sort of rolein making sure that price
gouging isn't occurring in theinsurance industry?
Todd Rich (15:59):
That's a great question. So we look at the
rates that are submitted, andrates have to be adequate,
meaning they have to be enoughto make sure the company's in
business. They cannot beexcessive, and they can't be
discriminatory, discriminatoryin nature. We go through these
rate filings, every component ofit, we ask questions, we push
(16:21):
back, and we also look at theprofitability margins. And so we
look at a one year and a fiveyear profitability for the home
insurance market, for theparticular carrier, we can see
their losses, and they'vethey've endured a lot of losses,
and they're not profitable inmany cases. So we would never,
(16:43):
you know, we'd never give a rateincrease for a company that is
extremely profitable, becausethat would be excessive. So
Christina (16:51):
that makes sense. So then what? So the losses that
have occurred in other statesdue to wildfire, tornadoes,
hurricanes, etc, are thoseimpacting the rates of consumers
in in Nevada, because they justimpact the solvency of the
entire company. I
Todd Rich (17:09):
wouldn't say it impacts the rate so much. Okay.
Do think it impacts theirconcerns about writing in areas
where there's there's homes inwooded areas that WUI
Megan (17:23):
Hi there. Just popping in to unpack that jargon real
quick. WUI is an acronym. Itstands for wildland urban
interface, and it describesareas where homes and buildings
are intermixed with naturalvegetation, and these tend to be
higher fire hazard areas.
Todd Rich (17:40):
It's a funny sounding word, but so as communities move
into these, these areas, more Ithink carriers are concerned.
And again, I'm not an advocateof the carriers. My job, of
course, consumers, we wantcarriers to come and write and
we understand they're going tomake a profit. They're for
(18:01):
profit organizations. We don'twant them to be excessively
profitable. I'm a homeowner too,so I pay these prices. But no we
we carry a heavy stick, andwe'll use it when needed. But
again, we don't want to be toorestrictive and too heavy
handed, because Christina, inyour state of California. We've
(18:21):
kind of seen some of thosecarriers leave farm or State
Farm, and California is a hugemarket. If California was its
own country, it would be theseventh biggest insurance market
in the world. So we're seeingthese big companies leave
California. They would leaveNevada in a second if we went
(18:42):
overboard on regulatory actions.
And so we have to kind of walkthis thin line of we're going to
make sure the rates areappropriate and they're not
doing anything that'sinappropriate, but also making
sure, hey, we want you to behere. We want you to be able to
get rate filings, and if youneed more rate, we're going to
look at it, and if warrant itwill approve it. But again, as I
said earlier, the more carrierswe have, that's better
(19:05):
competition. I
Megan (19:07):
kind of want to do some a little bit of myth busting with
data real quick. There's maybesome misunderstandings of data
collection when it comes to likehazard assessments around
people's properties, defensiblespace inspections around
people's properties, because weencourage everyone to get a
(19:28):
defensible space inspection, tocontact their fire district, to
contact us, to get advice on howto make their homes more
resilient. And defensible spaceinspections are a great tool for
in that process, but we've hadsome folks that just don't want
anyone on their propertycollecting any data, and
there's, I think, a myth, orsome sort of perception that
(19:50):
that data is going isinfluencing the insurance rates.
Can you speak to that? Yeah, no,
Todd Rich (19:55):
that's a great question. So again, this issue
is. Has come up over the lastyear, and so we've spent a lot
of time understanding whatcarriers are doing. And so
typically they use kind of twodifferent models that they use
in terms of home insurance. Oneis what we call a catastrophe
(20:16):
model. So they plug in and theytypically buy this. There's
vendors out there, and some ofthe big carriers actually
develop their own models, butthey're plugging in a number of
different factors. You know,what the slope is, the brush,
what type of house access? Youknow, nearest fire departments,
(20:36):
a lot of those things. And sothey'll map out a specific area.
And let's use incline village,because that's one that I think
is really there's a lot ofconcerns right now, and I
certainly feel for these peopleup there. So a carrier may look
at incline village and say,Gosh, we've got, you know, this
amount of houses covered ifthere were to be a fire, and
(20:57):
then they plug in the value ofeach house. This is the cost,
this is the loss that you'regoing to face. So that's a
catastrophe model. And then theyalso use kind of an individual
scoring model. So if you have ahouse an incline and you want to
get that insured, they're goingto plug in some of the factors
about that house, and it's goingto spit out kind of a number,
(21:20):
and that may help drive therate. So they typically look at
slope, vegetation, access again,maybe some other factors that
each carrier may think isimportant, and then kind of
derive a point system, maybe oneto 30, and if you're, you know,
(21:41):
above a five, and you've got ahigher fire risk, and you know,
your number may go up in termsof your rate. So but carries are
doing this, and they're these,these models are getting
pictures from NASA. They'regetting over, I mean, they know
exactly what they're looking at.
And so I think that is a myththat, if someone goes on site,
no, you you want to know what'sgoing on. And you want to know
(22:05):
if you've got a bunch of juniperbuchas right next to your house
that could burn your house downreally easily. So that is a
myth, and I think for us tosolve this problem, we're all
going to have to come togetherand figure out effective
mitigation strategies. Make surethe carriers understand it that
they're giving credits. There'sgoing to be some people that
(22:27):
don't want to mitigate andunfortunately, they're probably
gonna have to pay higherpremiums. But that's only fair,
right? Because if the neighbornext door is doing a great job,
then they should probably pay alittle bit
Megan (22:41):
less. Do these models, I think also, do they also take
into account like the community,the surrounding community and
surrounding parcels?
Todd Rich (22:48):
My understanding is that it could, because I think
they they look at a certain areaaround a home. So if, if there's
a fence that's close to yourhouse, and on your side, it's
great. On the other side, likeyou said, maybe there's a bunch
of pushes, yeah, that that thatis getting built into their
model. I
Megan (23:05):
just wanted to ask so, when the insurance Division of
Insurance is working onregulation, who are they
partnering with to understandthe science of fire, like, who
are the partners informing youon these issues.
Todd Rich (23:23):
We've had a number of meetings with some of the fire
captains, and there's a group upin Tao called parasol, which is
kind of a think tank. We've metwith them. We've met with some
fire former fire captains andtalking about mitigation efforts
and wildfire as I mentioned, weattended this meeting last week
(23:47):
in Boise, and so we really gotto see the fire science. And
things are moving slowly. Butyeah, we're listening to
everyone. Again. Our focus, ifwe do draft a regulation, is to
make sure that it isappropriate, that it's not
overbearing. Again, we can'tforce carriers to write, and we
don't want to make the rules sorestrictive that they, you know,
(24:08):
basically pick up their toys andleave the state, because we've
seen that in California, andthat doesn't help anyone. You
Megan (24:20):
Todd. So during our interview, Todd kind of
sprinkled in some awesome tipsand advice for navigating the
homeowners insurance world inNevada. So here's a little
roundup of some things that Toddsuggested, starting with
understanding the differenttypes of insurance agents out
(24:42):
there and choosing the right onefor you. Do want
Todd Rich (24:44):
to make sure people understand that are listening.
There's kind of two ways thatyou get, typically home and auto
insurance. One is that you workwith an independent agent and
they'll go out and shop certaincompanies like. Safeco and
travelers and some other smallercompanies, and they'll get you a
quote and say, Okay, I got yousigned up for this one. Then
(25:06):
there's the other side, whereyou kind of have what's called,
kind of the captive marketinsurance, and these are agents
that just work for one company.
So farmers, all state, StateFarm, where they're just going
to look to have the consumerright in their own company. So
what consumers need to do ifthey're getting non renewed or
(25:27):
dropped, they need to exploreall options. They need to go
outside and look at independentor look at farmers or Allstate
or whatever big company, andmake those calls. And I we've
talked to consumers, and theydon't always understand that,
but I hope I explained that,okay, if that makes sense.
Megan (25:46):
So the next tip is to look at your insurance policy if
you haven't been dropped,because you might be under
insured, not just for wildfirehazards, but for other hazards
as well. Most,
Todd Rich (25:59):
most consumers don't have flood insurance. There's
very few people in NorthernNevada that live in a flood
plain, but you want to check onthat, and you can also buy flood
insurance if you think you mayget flooded down the road.
There's also earthquakeinsurance that's additional. So
you want to look at and sit downwith your broker, whoever, and
say, explain this to me. So whathappens if, if my water heater
(26:24):
leaks and it's upstairs, or mywasher and dryer leak, what
happens and how much am I goingto pay? So you got to do a
little legwork, because theseare big things, when they do
happen in terms of fire, are youcovered if there's smoke damage?
So if there's a fire, maybe it'sup in the hills, and you live
close and there's enough smokethat gets in your house, is that
(26:47):
company going to cover that,that smoke damage that we don't
think about, even though thehouse didn't burn down, and make
sure that that the consumerunderstands that, and then our
role is Division of Insuranceif, if that's in the coverage
and the carrier is not paying,and that's when we get involved,
and we'll go talk to the carrierand say, you know, you need to
(27:07):
make good on this claim and makesure this consumers is paid in
full. And
Megan (27:12):
that's a great lead in to Todd's next suggestion, which
is, if you are experiencingissues with your insurance
company, if they aren't paying aclaim for coverage that you pay
for, you can file a complaintwith the Nevada Division of
Insurance. Yes, they
Todd Rich (27:27):
can file a formal complaint. And that really helps
us, because then we get ahistorical number of how many
complaints on each issue, andthen we'll go talk to carriers,
and like I said, we have theregulatory stick to say, if you
don't do this, then you'reprobably looking at a fine or
something more punitive.
Megan (27:44):
So in closing, let's look to the future. We asked Todd to
share some ideas that maybethey're kicking around at the
Nevada Division of Insurancethat would help address some of
these insurance challenges. Hesays that they're taking a lot
of inspiration from what folksare doing in other states.
Todd Rich (28:04):
There was a bill that was put forward in Idaho, and it
would create a kind of Idahobased reinsurance program that
would be funded by the state,that would help the carriers
there get some relief in termsof the reinsurance costs. It
also had a component that itwould provide grants to
(28:26):
homeowners. I think it was upto, like, $10,000 for mitigation
So, and I think there's probablya lot of value that maybe the
state could do something likethis to help push mitigation so
that overall, you know, the riskof wildfire goes down, and
carriers would understand thatand start writing differently
(28:47):
and again, provide credits. ButI think we have to do something.
Christina, I know you live inCalifornia. California has
what's called a fair plan,meaning it's kind of the insurer
of last choice if you can't getcoverage elsewhere. I know that
that FAIR Plan is getting lotsof action. I think last I heard,
(29:08):
they're getting, like, 1000applications a day, and I don't
think it was designed for that.
I know there's a fair plan inWashington and Oregon, and both
those states have less than 500covered homes. So what we're
seeing in California is probablyon the extreme, but you know,
having a fair plan in Nevadamight be helpful. So if there
are homes that don't getcovered, or maybe small
(29:31):
businesses that the state basedFAIR Plan could cover those, and
the division could start that onour own. I think we would prefer
the Nevada legislature to weighin make sure it's done
appropriately. That if we dothat, we would probably have to
assess carriers for the cost ofthat. And so there's that you
know, that thought is, you know,should, should people in Las
(29:53):
Vegas be paying for an issuethat's only in Northern Nevada,
although. Do think it willimpact Southern Nevada as well,
because rates are going to go updown there,
Christina (30:05):
you know. And I think that we're at an advantage in
Nevada that, you know, we'reseeing this happen in Oregon,
Washington and the state ofCalifornia already. And so you
guys can kind of get ahead ofthe of the curve here a little
bit. And so I think that'sencouraging for homeowners here,
that you guys are proactiveabout it now, as opposed to in,
(30:30):
oh my god, the campfirehappened.
Unknown (30:32):
Whoa, we
Christina (30:33):
just lost all these homes. Okay, this, okay. Now,
the Dixie fire, now the Caldorfire, now the Tamarack fire, you
know, and so there's just been alot of hits to the California
home market. And so I thinkthat, you know, you guys have an
opportunity right now to kind ofjump ahead of this a little bit.
So we appreciate your time.
Todd Rich (30:55):
So very happy to be part of this. Like I said, it's,
it's probably the biggest issuethat we're dealing with right
now, Division of Insurance andChristina you, you said it
wildfires. It's not simply a manland management issue or
problem. It's an economic issue,and we all have to come together
to address it and solve it. AndI think we can, because, as I
(31:18):
mentioned, when I learned 85% offires are started by humans. So
if we can shorten that numberand do mitigation, I think we
can, we can get our arms aroundit.
Megan (31:35):
Thank you for listening to the living with fire podcast.
You can find more stories andresources
online@livingwithfire.org theliving with FIRE program is
funded by the Bureau of LandManagement, the Nevada Division
of Forestry and the US ForestService, and were managed by the
University of Nevada, Renoextension. You
It's it's becoming a an affordability issue. It's
becoming an environmentaljustice issue, right like that.
This is becoming a an issue inthe west of Okay, where can
people live? How can we affordto live? Houses are at all time
highs. Interest rates are veryhigh right now. Homeowners
(00:21):
Insurance is very high, and youstart thinking about, okay, who
can live here?
Megan (00:33):
This is the living with fire podcast brought to you by
the University of Nevada Renoextension. You
you. Hi there. Welcome back tothe living with fire podcast.
I'm your host. Megan Kaye,Outreach Coordinator for the
living with FIRE program, and weare super excited to be back
(00:53):
with some new episodes. This isour first episode of 2024 it's
one of a few that we've beenworking on about a very hot
topic right now, and that isinsurance doesn't seem very
exciting, but it's definitely anissue that's impacting a lot of
people in the West, especiallyin California, but it's starting
(01:13):
to have some impacts in Nevada.
And when I mean impacts, I'mtalking about rising homeowners
insurance rates, and in somecases, carriers making the
decision to not renew policiesfor some homeowners. So that is
definitely a challenge for folksliving or moving into, you know,
more higher fire hazard areashere in the west and in other
(01:34):
places all across the country,because wildfire is not just
limited to the West Coast. Onthis episode, you'll hear from
our fearless leader, Christinarustano. So
Christina (01:44):
my name is Christina rustano. I am an assistant
professor at UNR I focus onwildland fire and forest
resource issues.
Megan Kay (01:57):
So Christina herself lives in the wildland urban
interface, or the WUI, and shehas been experiencing impacts
from rising insurance costsherself.
Christina (02:07):
This is a, you know, this is a big, big topic that a
lot of us are worried about. Ihappen to live on the California
side, so just two miles over theborder, and so, you know, we're
already dealing with massiveinsurance cancelations and
extremely expensive insurance,and we know that it's happening
to our neighbors in theGardnerville, you know, in the
(02:30):
garnerville area also. So it'snot just, I mean, it's harder on
our side, but this still, it'sjust a big concern for everybody
right now, especially withextremely expensive houses and
extremely high interest rates,and then you add in high
insurance, and it's just like,wow, this is becoming a really
expensive place to live
Megan (02:51):
together. Christina and I interviewed Todd rich with the
Nevada Division of Insurance.
Todd Rich (02:55):
My name is Todd rich.
I serve as the DeputyCommissioner for the Division of
Insurance. The Division isresponsible for protecting
consumers. That's ourfoundational mission, is to
protect consumers in theirdealings with insurance
carriers.
Megan (03:10):
So part of our mission at living with fire is to help
communities address the growingchallenges of living with
wildfire. And insurance isdefinitely becoming one of those
challenges, it already is for alot of folks. So let's dive in
and learn a little more aboutit. Thanks. So I just gonna lead
(03:36):
with the kind of the bigquestion, which is, you know, it
like we're seeing in California,with folks with experiencing
rate increases, and in someareas, insurance companies just
completely pulling out from thefrom high fire housing areas. Is
that happening? Happening inNevada,
Todd Rich (03:55):
we're hearing some things, incline village,
Glenbrook, South Lake Tahoe,Montreux, some of these wooded
areas where consumers arefinding it difficult to get
coverage. We're not hearing thatthey cannot get coverage at all.
We are hearing from like condoassociations that their costs
have gone way up. And let mekind of level set to begin with.
(04:19):
I think it's important foreveryone to understand from a
from an industry perspective,the biggest issue facing
insurance companies right now isthe economic impact of climate
change. And so I know we've allseen, you know, increased
hurricanes on the east coast,but we're also seeing wind and
(04:40):
hail storms and the severity andthe frequency have increased.
We've seen tornadoes, we've seenmore flooding. We've seen huge
winters like we had, not thiswinter, but the last winter
before that. And now we'veintroduced kind of wildfire,
which used to be kind ofsomewhat. Limited to the west
(05:00):
coast and kind of more in theforested areas that no one lived
in, or that's more impactingwhere consumers live and people
have built homes andcommunities. So when you take
this all into totality, it'scaused a lot of losses for
insurance carriers, and sothey're starting to react by
(05:22):
being more cautious how theywrite coverage. Carriers have
the right to determine wherethey want to do business, and
like any other business, ifyou're losing a bunch of money,
you're probably going to changewhat you're doing. And
unfortunately, for consumersthat live in those areas, there
isn't an impact to them. Doesthat make sense? Yeah, it
Megan (05:41):
does something I wanted to touch on, because you brought
up these catastrophic disastersthat can happen, like tornadoes
and hurricanes, wildfire is alittle unique when you're
comparing it to these differentdisasters, because there are,
like, evidence based actionsthat homeowners can do to reduce
(06:03):
their risk is that moving theneedle at all with the insurance
carriers.
Todd Rich (06:08):
It hasn't really moved the needle yet. Wildfire
as a hazard as apparel in theinsurance world really didn't
get on the radar till 2017 2018typically, insurance carriers
looked at the risk of hurricanesand flooding, and they could
kind of manage that, becausethey kind of understood it. And
(06:28):
then as I think, things gotwarmer and things started drying
out more, we saw these hugewildfires. The science really
hasn't caught up to what thecarriers are doing yet. Like I
said it started in 2017 2018where it really hit their radar.
And more importantly, it hit thereinsurance companies. So
reinsurance provides a level ofexactly what it's called
(06:51):
reinsurance, which is anotherlevel. And they started having
massive losses because of allthese claims because of
wildfires. So then they startedlooking at, okay, what are the
models? What are we doing? Andso they're charging a lot more
for reinsurance to carriers suchas farmers and Allstate And
State Farm, so their costs havegone way up and the losses have
(07:13):
gone up. So they're looking toincrease rates and to really be,
I think, sensitive about wherethey write coverage. And you
know, we just did a big datacall for data ending at the end
of 23 and we still show that wehave a healthy insurance market,
even in Northern Nevada, even inplaces like incline, we've seen
(07:34):
carriers certainly step away.
And I think they're looking attheir concentration, and
rightfully so, because if youhad a ton of houses and incline
and there was a massive fire,you may not be able to pay all
those claims, because youwouldn't have enough money. So
they've got to be careful aboutwhere they're writing. And so I
think we're in this time ofwhere things are getting
(07:55):
resettled. But it's important tounderstand that, again, it's a
business, and they have to makethose determinations. And I
think mitigation and gettingback to your question, sorry,
I'm getting too far in the weedsa little bit, but mitigation
does work. We've seen it. Thescience works. But we also
(08:16):
learned, in this meeting lastweek, at least, I learned that
if there's say, six pieces ofmitigation you're doing for your
home, and that includesdefensible space, not having
shrubs right next to your house,maybe a wooden fence that comes
into your house, all thosethings, the vents that are open,
because we know embers can getinto those vents even after the
(08:38):
Fire has passed, they may burndown, you know, half an hour
later, but if you've only donesay, five of the six that house
can still burn down, somitigation has to be complete.
And the carriers aren't reallygiving credit yet, and they're
not really giving credit forcommunities that have done a
really good job. For example,incline village, I think, has
(09:00):
really stepped up their game interms of mitigation. But we're
not seeing the credits yet fromthe insurance companies, because
I don't think they're sold thatif there's a massive fire and
the winds are blowing at 6070,miles per hour, is that
mitigation going to stop thelosses? And the science is not
quite determined yet, becauseit's still fairly new. I
Megan (09:24):
mean, I don't know. I think I'm gonna push back on
that a little bit. I think thescience is there. So, I mean, I
understand what you're saying, Ithink, but I'm wondering what
your opinion is, if we reframedit as like the instead of the
science not being there, thenindustry not being like
familiarized with the science.
Christina, would you agree?
Christina (09:47):
I think that, you know, an argument could be made
that, yes, individual homes, themitigation has to be complete on
those homes, and the mitigationhas to be complete within those
neighborhoods as well, right? Soyou need. Like every house doing
it, every you know, thecommunity working together. But
I do think that we have evidenceto show that it's that it's it's
(10:11):
there. So I would also push backon I think that the science is
there. I think that insuranceisn't taking that science into
account because they're worriedabout costs.
Megan (10:27):
Let's take a break from our interview with Todd rich and
hear from a homeowner inNorthern Nevada who's been
dealing with rising insurancecosts and actually loss of
coverage in his area. I'm
Unknown (10:40):
Thomas Daley live in the estates at Mount rose off of
Mount rose Highway at Callahanroad.
Megan (10:47):
So a colleague of mine put me in touch with Tom, and I
was super excited for theopportunity to talk to someone
on the ground experiencingchallenges with wildfire
insurance, but I didn't realizethat Tom also came with this
pedigree of fire experience.
Well,
Unknown (11:03):
I started at 16 as a volunteer firefighter. Rose up
through those ranks. Was acareer firefighter in
Washington, DC, associate'sdegree in fire science,
bachelor's in political science,Master's in Public
Administration and Master's insafety. I was the head of fire
(11:25):
protection for NASA for fiveyears, Director of life safety
at Hilton Hotels Corporation,followed by a 25 year career
there and retired as a vicepresident in charge of safety
and security.
Megan (11:42):
Tom shared with us his perspective, and also give us
some insights into what he andhis neighbors are experiencing
right now.
Unknown (11:50):
Despite HOAs homeowners and the fire district all making
these tremendous improvements,insurance companies aren't
taking notice of it, everybody'sgetting either non renewed or
seeing their premiums increased.
Megan (12:03):
So if you're not familiar with the area, Tom's
neighborhood is kind of situatedat the base of a mountain, right
where a forested area kind ofturns into a more sagebrush
ecosystem, lots of
Unknown (12:17):
bitter brush, rabbit, brush, sagebrush.
Megan (12:20):
So this area we're describing is typically a high
fire hazard area, but it soundslike Tom and his neighbors have
done a lot of work to reducetheir risk.
Unknown (12:30):
And up here, since we moved here in oh six, after the
fire at South Lake in oh nine,neighbors got together and said
we got a problem. We got to fixit. And we've been spending
money and doing projects sinceoh nine, and I think we've
probably spent, if you includethe grant funds, over a million
(12:53):
dollars. And this is a communityof only 158 homes.
Megan (12:57):
So that's the 2007 Angora fire in South Lake Tahoe that
Tom mentioned. Since then, thecommunity has been doing a lot
of work, like you said, and itseems to have been recognized by
their local fire district. Wehave
Unknown (13:10):
had our fire hazard rating improved by Turkey
Meadows. Fire used to be high,now it's moderate. We have a
community wildfire protectionplan approved for the county,
the fire district and the stateforester. Tom
Megan (13:30):
says that at first, insurance companies in the area
were recognizing these effortsand even incentivizing them, and
it was resulting in lowerinsurance rates. But that's
changed
Unknown (13:41):
after we got our CWPP.
We got our CWPP, both farmersand Allstate reduced their
premiums, we gave them a ton ofthat, you know, ton of documents
to justify, and they did. Andthen that went on for three or
four years. And then Allstateraised their rates. And then
(14:02):
recently, Allstate failed torenew me here and some of my
neighbors as well not withAllstate. I think they were with
Geico or AAA. It
Megan (14:16):
sounds like his community has been working really hard for
a long time to adapt to livingin this high fire hazard area,
and they've taken a lot ofaction to reduce their wildfire
risk. But those efforts are notnecessarily being recognized by
insurance companies, and thatseems to be sending a message to
homeowners. This is the way Tomputs it,
Unknown (14:38):
if you want to do the work and you want to spend the
money, whether it's your yourown money or your homeowners
association money? You canimprove your score, but if you
improve your score and you don'tget any benefit from your
insurance company, it's sort ofa waste of effort.
Megan (14:57):
Let's take a quick break.
You. It. So I quickly justwanted to talk about us, the
living with Fire Program. Maybeyou found this podcast and
you're wondering, what is theliving with FIRE program? Well,
we've been around since 1997we're managed by the University
of Nevada, Reno extension, andwe're really a collaborative
effort amongst federal, stateand local fire districts and
(15:20):
land management agencies and wecreate resources and connect
communities and stakeholders tohelp them adapt, prepare and
live more safely with wildfire.
So if you haven't already, checkout our website,
livingwithfire.org for moreinformation. Okay, back to the
show you.
Christina (15:44):
What I am wondering is, does the Insurance
Commission have any sort of rolein making sure that price
gouging isn't occurring in theinsurance industry?
Todd Rich (15:59):
That's a great question. So we look at the
rates that are submitted, andrates have to be adequate,
meaning they have to be enoughto make sure the company's in
business. They cannot beexcessive, and they can't be
discriminatory, discriminatoryin nature. We go through these
rate filings, every component ofit, we ask questions, we push
(16:21):
back, and we also look at theprofitability margins. And so we
look at a one year and a fiveyear profitability for the home
insurance market, for theparticular carrier, we can see
their losses, and they'vethey've endured a lot of losses,
and they're not profitable inmany cases. So we would never,
(16:43):
you know, we'd never give a rateincrease for a company that is
extremely profitable, becausethat would be excessive. So
Christina (16:51):
that makes sense. So then what? So the losses that
have occurred in other statesdue to wildfire, tornadoes,
hurricanes, etc, are thoseimpacting the rates of consumers
in in Nevada, because they justimpact the solvency of the
entire company. I
Todd Rich (17:09):
wouldn't say it impacts the rate so much. Okay.
Do think it impacts theirconcerns about writing in areas
where there's there's homes inwooded areas that WUI
Megan (17:23):
Hi there. Just popping in to unpack that jargon real
quick. WUI is an acronym. Itstands for wildland urban
interface, and it describesareas where homes and buildings
are intermixed with naturalvegetation, and these tend to be
higher fire hazard areas.
Todd Rich (17:40):
It's a funny sounding word, but so as communities move
into these, these areas, more Ithink carriers are concerned.
And again, I'm not an advocateof the carriers. My job, of
course, consumers, we wantcarriers to come and write and
we understand they're going tomake a profit. They're for
(18:01):
profit organizations. We don'twant them to be excessively
profitable. I'm a homeowner too,so I pay these prices. But no we
we carry a heavy stick, andwe'll use it when needed. But
again, we don't want to be toorestrictive and too heavy
handed, because Christina, inyour state of California. We've
(18:21):
kind of seen some of thosecarriers leave farm or State
Farm, and California is a hugemarket. If California was its
own country, it would be theseventh biggest insurance market
in the world. So we're seeingthese big companies leave
California. They would leaveNevada in a second if we went
(18:42):
overboard on regulatory actions.
And so we have to kind of walkthis thin line of we're going to
make sure the rates areappropriate and they're not
doing anything that'sinappropriate, but also making
sure, hey, we want you to behere. We want you to be able to
get rate filings, and if youneed more rate, we're going to
look at it, and if warrant itwill approve it. But again, as I
said earlier, the more carrierswe have, that's better
(19:05):
competition. I
Megan (19:07):
kind of want to do some a little bit of myth busting with
data real quick. There's maybesome misunderstandings of data
collection when it comes to likehazard assessments around
people's properties, defensiblespace inspections around
people's properties, because weencourage everyone to get a
(19:28):
defensible space inspection, tocontact their fire district, to
contact us, to get advice on howto make their homes more
resilient. And defensible spaceinspections are a great tool for
in that process, but we've hadsome folks that just don't want
anyone on their propertycollecting any data, and
there's, I think, a myth, orsome sort of perception that
(19:50):
that data is going isinfluencing the insurance rates.
Can you speak to that? Yeah, no,
Todd Rich (19:55):
that's a great question. So again, this issue
is. Has come up over the lastyear, and so we've spent a lot
of time understanding whatcarriers are doing. And so
typically they use kind of twodifferent models that they use
in terms of home insurance. Oneis what we call a catastrophe
(20:16):
model. So they plug in and theytypically buy this. There's
vendors out there, and some ofthe big carriers actually
develop their own models, butthey're plugging in a number of
different factors. You know,what the slope is, the brush,
what type of house access? Youknow, nearest fire departments,
(20:36):
a lot of those things. And sothey'll map out a specific area.
And let's use incline village,because that's one that I think
is really there's a lot ofconcerns right now, and I
certainly feel for these peopleup there. So a carrier may look
at incline village and say,Gosh, we've got, you know, this
amount of houses covered ifthere were to be a fire, and
(20:57):
then they plug in the value ofeach house. This is the cost,
this is the loss that you'regoing to face. So that's a
catastrophe model. And then theyalso use kind of an individual
scoring model. So if you have ahouse an incline and you want to
get that insured, they're goingto plug in some of the factors
about that house, and it's goingto spit out kind of a number,
(21:20):
and that may help drive therate. So they typically look at
slope, vegetation, access again,maybe some other factors that
each carrier may think isimportant, and then kind of
derive a point system, maybe oneto 30, and if you're, you know,
(21:41):
above a five, and you've got ahigher fire risk, and you know,
your number may go up in termsof your rate. So but carries are
doing this, and they're these,these models are getting
pictures from NASA. They'regetting over, I mean, they know
exactly what they're looking at.
And so I think that is a myththat, if someone goes on site,
no, you you want to know what'sgoing on. And you want to know
(22:05):
if you've got a bunch of juniperbuchas right next to your house
that could burn your house downreally easily. So that is a
myth, and I think for us tosolve this problem, we're all
going to have to come togetherand figure out effective
mitigation strategies. Make surethe carriers understand it that
they're giving credits. There'sgoing to be some people that
(22:27):
don't want to mitigate andunfortunately, they're probably
gonna have to pay higherpremiums. But that's only fair,
right? Because if the neighbornext door is doing a great job,
then they should probably pay alittle bit
Megan (22:41):
less. Do these models, I think also, do they also take
into account like the community,the surrounding community and
surrounding parcels?
Todd Rich (22:48):
My understanding is that it could, because I think
they they look at a certain areaaround a home. So if, if there's
a fence that's close to yourhouse, and on your side, it's
great. On the other side, likeyou said, maybe there's a bunch
of pushes, yeah, that that thatis getting built into their
model. I
Megan (23:05):
just wanted to ask so, when the insurance Division of
Insurance is working onregulation, who are they
partnering with to understandthe science of fire, like, who
are the partners informing youon these issues.
Todd Rich (23:23):
We've had a number of meetings with some of the fire
captains, and there's a group upin Tao called parasol, which is
kind of a think tank. We've metwith them. We've met with some
fire former fire captains andtalking about mitigation efforts
and wildfire as I mentioned, weattended this meeting last week
(23:47):
in Boise, and so we really gotto see the fire science. And
things are moving slowly. Butyeah, we're listening to
everyone. Again. Our focus, ifwe do draft a regulation, is to
make sure that it isappropriate, that it's not
overbearing. Again, we can'tforce carriers to write, and we
don't want to make the rules sorestrictive that they, you know,
(24:08):
basically pick up their toys andleave the state, because we've
seen that in California, andthat doesn't help anyone. You
Megan (24:20):
Todd. So during our interview, Todd kind of
sprinkled in some awesome tipsand advice for navigating the
homeowners insurance world inNevada. So here's a little
roundup of some things that Toddsuggested, starting with
understanding the differenttypes of insurance agents out
(24:42):
there and choosing the right onefor you. Do want
Todd Rich (24:44):
to make sure people understand that are listening.
There's kind of two ways thatyou get, typically home and auto
insurance. One is that you workwith an independent agent and
they'll go out and shop certaincompanies like. Safeco and
travelers and some other smallercompanies, and they'll get you a
quote and say, Okay, I got yousigned up for this one. Then
(25:06):
there's the other side, whereyou kind of have what's called,
kind of the captive marketinsurance, and these are agents
that just work for one company.
So farmers, all state, StateFarm, where they're just going
to look to have the consumerright in their own company. So
what consumers need to do ifthey're getting non renewed or
(25:27):
dropped, they need to exploreall options. They need to go
outside and look at independentor look at farmers or Allstate
or whatever big company, andmake those calls. And I we've
talked to consumers, and theydon't always understand that,
but I hope I explained that,okay, if that makes sense.
Megan (25:46):
So the next tip is to look at your insurance policy if
you haven't been dropped,because you might be under
insured, not just for wildfirehazards, but for other hazards
as well. Most,
Todd Rich (25:59):
most consumers don't have flood insurance. There's
very few people in NorthernNevada that live in a flood
plain, but you want to check onthat, and you can also buy flood
insurance if you think you mayget flooded down the road.
There's also earthquakeinsurance that's additional. So
you want to look at and sit downwith your broker, whoever, and
say, explain this to me. So whathappens if, if my water heater
(26:24):
leaks and it's upstairs, or mywasher and dryer leak, what
happens and how much am I goingto pay? So you got to do a
little legwork, because theseare big things, when they do
happen in terms of fire, are youcovered if there's smoke damage?
So if there's a fire, maybe it'sup in the hills, and you live
close and there's enough smokethat gets in your house, is that
(26:47):
company going to cover that,that smoke damage that we don't
think about, even though thehouse didn't burn down, and make
sure that that the consumerunderstands that, and then our
role is Division of Insuranceif, if that's in the coverage
and the carrier is not paying,and that's when we get involved,
and we'll go talk to the carrierand say, you know, you need to
(27:07):
make good on this claim and makesure this consumers is paid in
full. And
Megan (27:12):
that's a great lead in to Todd's next suggestion, which
is, if you are experiencingissues with your insurance
company, if they aren't paying aclaim for coverage that you pay
for, you can file a complaintwith the Nevada Division of
Insurance. Yes, they
Todd Rich (27:27):
can file a formal complaint. And that really helps
us, because then we get ahistorical number of how many
complaints on each issue, andthen we'll go talk to carriers,
and like I said, we have theregulatory stick to say, if you
don't do this, then you'reprobably looking at a fine or
something more punitive.
Megan (27:44):
So in closing, let's look to the future. We asked Todd to
share some ideas that maybethey're kicking around at the
Nevada Division of Insurancethat would help address some of
these insurance challenges. Hesays that they're taking a lot
of inspiration from what folksare doing in other states.
Todd Rich (28:04):
There was a bill that was put forward in Idaho, and it
would create a kind of Idahobased reinsurance program that
would be funded by the state,that would help the carriers
there get some relief in termsof the reinsurance costs. It
also had a component that itwould provide grants to
(28:26):
homeowners. I think it was upto, like, $10,000 for mitigation
So, and I think there's probablya lot of value that maybe the
state could do something likethis to help push mitigation so
that overall, you know, the riskof wildfire goes down, and
carriers would understand thatand start writing differently
(28:47):
and again, provide credits. ButI think we have to do something.
Christina, I know you live inCalifornia. California has
what's called a fair plan,meaning it's kind of the insurer
of last choice if you can't getcoverage elsewhere. I know that
that FAIR Plan is getting lotsof action. I think last I heard,
(29:08):
they're getting, like, 1000applications a day, and I don't
think it was designed for that.
I know there's a fair plan inWashington and Oregon, and both
those states have less than 500covered homes. So what we're
seeing in California is probablyon the extreme, but you know,
having a fair plan in Nevadamight be helpful. So if there
are homes that don't getcovered, or maybe small
(29:31):
businesses that the state basedFAIR Plan could cover those, and
the division could start that onour own. I think we would prefer
the Nevada legislature to weighin make sure it's done
appropriately. That if we dothat, we would probably have to
assess carriers for the cost ofthat. And so there's that you
know, that thought is, you know,should, should people in Las
(29:53):
Vegas be paying for an issuethat's only in Northern Nevada,
although. Do think it willimpact Southern Nevada as well,
because rates are going to go updown there,
Christina (30:05):
you know. And I think that we're at an advantage in
Nevada that, you know, we'reseeing this happen in Oregon,
Washington and the state ofCalifornia already. And so you
guys can kind of get ahead ofthe of the curve here a little
bit. And so I think that'sencouraging for homeowners here,
that you guys are proactiveabout it now, as opposed to in,
(30:30):
oh my god, the campfirehappened.
Unknown (30:32):
Whoa, we
Christina (30:33):
just lost all these homes. Okay, this, okay. Now,
the Dixie fire, now the Caldorfire, now the Tamarack fire, you
know, and so there's just been alot of hits to the California
home market. And so I thinkthat, you know, you guys have an
opportunity right now to kind ofjump ahead of this a little bit.
So we appreciate your time.
Todd Rich (30:55):
So very happy to be part of this. Like I said, it's,
it's probably the biggest issuethat we're dealing with right
now, Division of Insurance andChristina you, you said it
wildfires. It's not simply a manland management issue or
problem. It's an economic issue,and we all have to come together
to address it and solve it. AndI think we can, because, as I
(31:18):
mentioned, when I learned 85% offires are started by humans. So
if we can shorten that numberand do mitigation, I think we
can, we can get our arms aroundit.
Megan (31:35):
Thank you for listening to the living with fire podcast.
You can find more stories andresources
online@livingwithfire.org theliving with FIRE program is
funded by the Bureau of LandManagement, the Nevada Division
of Forestry and the US ForestService, and were managed by the
University of Nevada, Renoextension. You
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