May 30, 2024 • 38 mins
This week, we're joined by Spencer Dusebout. Spencer is the CEO and Founder of Aidium from Boulder, Colorado, a mortgage CRM software with intelligent automation. A serial entrepreneur, Spencer is a sought after public speaker, who has given multiple TED talks as well as spoken at many regional conferences.
Spencer is here to discuss: → Loan Officers and Brokerages having to embrace technology to stay competitive and offer a better client experience. → The long-term value of a client and the importance of communication in creating connection. → Leveraging data to improve client retention and make the most of the leads you already have.
Aidium Website: www.thinkaidium.com
Aidium LinkedIn: @Aidium
Aidium Facebook: @Aidium
Spencer Dusebout's LinkedIn: @SpencerDusebout
Learn more about the Direct to Consumer LO Accelerator here.
Loans On Demand Website: www.loansondemand.io
Loans On Demand YouTube: @LoansOnDemand
Loans On Demand Instagram: @loansondemand
Luke Shankula's Facebook: @LukeShankula
Luke Shankula's LinkedIn: @LukeShankula
Luke Shankula's Instagram: @lukeshankula
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
podcast, the show where we flipthe real estate status quo on its
head and put loan officers intothe driver's seat.
We give you all the tools,strategies, resources, and mindset
needed to modernize your mortgagebusiness and thrive.
My name is Luke Shankula, aka LongForm Luke, and this is the Loans
On Demand podcast.
going on?
Welcome to the Loans On DemandPodcast, the show where we help
(00:25):
loan officers flip the status quoon real estate agents and put loan
officers in the driver's seat.
And I'm excited because today we
have Spencer Desbarre, the founderand CEO of Adium, serial
entrepreneur.
He's done this a few different
times, but he's doing some coolthings with mortgage CRMs, some AI
cool things that maybe we can'ttalk about today.
Maybe we can't, but hey, you knowwhat?
Welcome to the show.
What's going on, Spencer?
Yeah, no, great to be here.
(00:46):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
So give us a little background on
who you are.
Obviously, I gave your titles, but
give us a background.
Who is Spencer?
What has you in this space?And you know, kind of what's your
background?Yeah, for sure.
So I'm a serial entrepreneur,which means that I've done a lot
of things that didn't work out andtried my best to learn from those
failures until you kind of get tosomething that maybe works out a
little bit.
And that first thing for me was a
(01:07):
company doing predictive data andanalytics in the real estate
space.
So kind of predicting people will
be more likely to sell homes,generating leads, selling those
leads to realtors.
I was able to work really closely
with a bunch of realtors and beganto see some of the challenges that
they experienced on a day-to-daybasis.
Like, you know, I think realtorsare like one of the few
professionals out there that pickup their phone day and night, not
(01:29):
even knowing who the number isthat's calling them.
And I think that speaks to justhow messy real estate transactions
are.
People are not on the same page
and, you know, also selling leads.
And we were talking about this for
the start of the show.
People always complain about the
lead quality.
And it's like, I would ask, okay,
so unpack that for And me.
they'd say things like, well, I
(01:49):
made a call, but then I got reallybusy.
I haven't really followed up and Idon't have a listing yet.
And it's like, well, I get that.
And I get the persona and all the
stuff they have going on.
I think it's just surprising for
me.
There wasn't a lot of great tech
that was really just helping themstreamline their day-to-day and
helping them streamline their topof funnel, converting their leads.
And I saw an opportunity to dothat and saw the lender as the
quarterback of a transaction in away where you got to get the loan
done.
And I think I saw even more
antiquated technology in the worldof mortgage and decided to start
(02:11):
Moose Daily Eye.
Now we've rebranded to ADM and
we've been doing this since 2019.
Awesome, man.
Well, I'll just say this.
You're right.
The hard thing about the mortgageindustry and real estate industry
is there's such a big cost to sortof bring in new tech, right?
And then obviously then there'sthe other side of things, which is
actually getting loan officers toadopt new tech.
And so I think a lot of times it'seasier for these mortgage
(02:31):
companies, especially the bigones, to just kind of stick with
what they've always used becauseeverybody kind of knows how to use
it.
And it just kind of becomes
embedded within the culture, notculture, but just easier, right?
Easier than upgrading.
And so, yeah, traditionally, I
think the industry has been veryslow to make adaptations to the
market.
And I think with AI coming around,
I mean, like with the things thatare happening with AI, with the
generative models, with LLMs andthe chatbots and things like that,
(02:53):
there will be a shift here in thenext few years where they're going
to have to adopt the tech orthey're going to get left behind.
And I think that's coming wayfaster than people really believe.
So I don't know what your thoughtsare on Way faster.
Absolutely.
You could look at it as a pro or a
con, right?And I think it's a pro.
Like this technology and some ofthe stuff that we're trying to do
at ADM, like it's genuinelyhelping borrowers have better
(03:14):
experiences and it's genuinelymaking loan officers lives better
and helping them make more money.
Like, I think that's a pro.
I mean, sure, there is that con oflike, I got to get and adopt this
new piece of technology, butoverall, I think it's for the
better.
And, you know, I think one of the
things that I, to your point, likethis idea of, you know, larger,
let's say, IMBs or brokeragesswitching technology, and they've
been reluctant to do it.
You know, I think that sentiment
(03:35):
is changing a bit.
And the question that I usually
ask, like, let's say it's a headof production at an independent
mortgage bank, I would ask them,you know, when's the last time you
lost a top producer?And they might say like, ah, you
know, three months ago, and I'mstill really, you know, salty
about and it, whatever.
you And, know, the follow ago and
I'm still really, you know, saltyabout it and whatever.
And, you know, the follow-upquestion I ask is, so how much of
(03:56):
an impact did your technologystack have on them going?
And it's like, what do you mean bythat?
And so, you know, to reframe it,like a one is basically your
technology had no impact on theirdecision to leave.
They were like, great, I'm justgoing to leave and go somewhere
else.
A 10 is like, they left and they
called you up and said, I made thebiggest mistake ever.
I didn't realize how good thetechnology is.
Can I just please come back?And the answer is always a two or
a three.
I've got this corporate CRM and
our tech stack and no one reallycares.
(04:18):
And so my question to that islike, well, then, I mean, why are
you paying all this money for someof these pieces of technology?
It has no impact on your abilityto retain your top producers and
recruit new ones.
And it's just not working for you.
So I think some people are tryingto figure that out and are a
little more open to thoseconversations.
Yeah, it makes sense, man.
I mean, you know, because you're
right.
A lot of times people don't even
want to use the internal softwarethat companies have.
(04:38):
So that's probably a hurdle thatyou guys sort of face.
And I know one of the things thatyou guys do when you are rolling
out this software is you help withimplementation.
So what does that look like?Like, how do you get people to use
software?Because, you know, as like we were
talking before, I mean, as amarketing agency, one of our
hardest things that is, is likeactually getting loan officers to
implement the processes that wehave in place to log into the CRM,
to text people back, to, you know,pick up the phone and call people
(04:59):
to answer the phone, like thingslike that.
And, you know, to roll out a newCRM, a new piece of tech on top of
whatever Encompass and otherthings that they have in process,
what does that look like?And how do you do that in an
efficient or effective Yeah, itlooks a little bit different for a
loan officer, a team or a branchversus an enterprise.
We're probably one of the few toactually work with all those
categories.
But really, our framework
internally is the same, which iswe have this sort of we call it
(05:21):
like beginner, intermediate,advanced expert, essentially.
And the goal is to get everybodykind of moving up that, you know,
climbing that mountain, so tospeak.
And so the way that we look at itis, you know, from a beginner
standpoint is like, great, are wenurturing and engaging your
database?Are we maybe integrating to your
LOS and providing updates as loansare underwritten?
Maybe intermediate is, are weintegrating your lead sources?
Are we doing lead conversioncampaigns?
Are we integrating with your pointof sale?
(05:41):
Maybe that advanced is like, areyou starting to build your own
custom campaigns where now you'resaying like, actually, if we did
this when a loan was funded, wesent a gift to them, that's what I
want to do.
Or, you know, hey, I actually have
a really great idea on how I wantto kind of convert leads and
communicate my referral partners,like things like that, you're
starting to think about how youcustomize and make it your own.
(06:05):
You know, an expert is like,you're just kind of going all the
way, like you're kind ofcustomizing everything and
integrating a bunch of differentdata sources.
And so we like to think of it thatway, You kind of, you start small
and you progressively do more andmore.
We're heavily invested in ourclients doing that.
I mean, if you ask anyone thatworks at ADM, that's the thing we
actually look at most.
(06:26):
It's not how many new sales are we
getting and all this.
It's how many customers are going
from beginner to intermediate orintermediate to advanced, right?
That's our North Star as acompany.
And so I think for us, we look atit that way.
And I think underscoring theentire thing is data.
So we put a lot of emphasis indata and loan officers, teams,
branches, enterprises we workwith, we always ask, do you know
your numbers?Do you know your conversion rates?
Do you know your re-engagementrates?
Things like that.
(06:46):
And most of the time, people
don't.
And so I think the numbers show
where you can have room forimprovement.
Like if your lead application rateis really low, how can we help
with that?Like what content can we turn on
to make sure that that improves?And so for us, it's that
trajectory.
It's beginner, intermediate,
advanced, expert, you know, andtrying to be data-driven about
where can we also add value?Like we don't want to just turn
stuff on for the sake of turningit on.
(07:06):
We actually want it to work,right?
And I think that's where a lot ofpeople just get disenchanted with
tech because it's like, I'mturning this stuff on.
I have no idea what this is doingfor me.
I think for us, it's like, we wantto very clearly show you how it's
helping your that makes sense.
I mean, I think there's the other
side of things where people arehopeful that technology or
(07:27):
automation will replace the needto have them do any of the work
and they just magically have, youknow, applications fall in their
lap.
And so I'm assuming part of what
you talk about is, all right,well, yes, tech is one piece and
that helps with conversations.
But at the end of the day, you got
to do some of the work, right?I mean, you talked about lead to
application.
Do you do some nurturing there?
Are you kind of saying, hey, like,what's your sales process?
Like, what does that look likefrom the Yeah.
(07:48):
So the way we would look at leadto application is we would first
want our customers to kind to seewhat that looks like.
And so just industry average leadto application completed is about
20%.
And people always think that
that's crazy, but it's really not.
And loan officers always say,
there's no way I'm way better thanthat.
It's like, what do you know yournumbers?
No, I don't.
So okay, well, that proves the
point.
And that's fine.
It just shows there's a lot ofopportunity to improve there.
(08:09):
And so a lot of that is when alead comes in, where's your
process to convert and drive it toan application.
And so I think it's that speed tolead first touch point, you know,
engaging and getting in front ofthem, which obviously our system
can do through automation.
I know other systems do this too,
but it's also, you know, makingsure that you're communicating in
a way that works like throughtexting or things like that or
maybe integrating video to kind ofdifferentiate yourself a little
bit converting leads via emailjust is not a good idea as i'm
(08:31):
sure you it doesn't work great buthere's the truth just to kind of
touch on that is every medium isimportant because some people feel
more comfortable communicating viaemail small percentage these days
but there is still a smallpercentage of people that do
prefer to communicate via email.
Most are going to be communicating
via text.
And then, you know, you also have
to pick up the phone and callthem.
And obviously there's voicemaildrops and things like that that
you can do as well.
(08:52):
But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of
variables there that play into it.
And I think email does a good job
and more of the nurture sort oflong term, you know, trust
building stuff, but not as much ofthe instant sort of like, Hey,
respond to this email type thing.
Right?
Yeah, term, you absolutely.
And and so i'm with you i think
you do everything but again likeyou know if you're just doing text
(09:13):
you're probably leaving somethingon the table and so you know let's
get in front of them quickly andthen we see this all the time and
any loan officer that's looking todo more business i encourage you
like if you have a simple nexus orflowify or blend or whatever point
of sale you're using like open itup and see how many people have
started and haven't finished.
And there's usually a lot of
people in there.
And I think for us, like we have
integrations with all those pointof sales and then some.
(09:34):
And so for us, it's also saying,hey, great, when someone starts
the application, this happens allthe time, right?
It's like someone starts it andit's like, oh, I got to upload
these documents.
So I got to pick up my kid for
school.
And then it's like, whatever, I'll
get to it whenever I get to it.
And so we think of it as like the
abandoned shopping cart analogy oflike someone starts and stops.
And the reality is some people arereally good at staying on top of
that.
But again, you're getting new
(09:54):
leads.
You got to reach out to those
leads.
It's kind of the shiny object.
You get the dopamine hit when thenew lead comes in.
And so for us, we try to set upthose automations to help you
really recapture people as theystart the app and stop.
And you do it in a really niceway.
Like, hey, I'm just here to help.
I know it can be daunting to set
up an app.
I'd love to get you pre-qualified.
Give me a call if there's anythingI can do to help.
And we've seen that like two,three X people's pull through
(10:16):
rates at that point, right?And so there's just, there's
little things like that you can doto help increase that.
And so you're right, you gotta dothe work, but why not have the
technology do some of that workfor you?
At least the stuff that's harderto get to.
I I think automation with any sortof lead generation, even if it's
not consumer direct, even if it'slike a referral, there has to be
some element of automation that isin play for the touch points right
now.
That being said, I mean, different
models require more or lessautomation, but I do think there
(10:37):
is always a value to having someform of automation as long as you
don't expect it to do all of theheavy lifting for you, right?
It will help.
It will start conversations.
But generally, one thing I alwaystell people is our goal as
salespeople is to get somewhere onthe phone call, right?
But we need to understand thateach of these mediums need to be
communicated in a certain way,right?
So like email, you can writelonger emails and be okay.
Text message, if you're writingparagraphs of text, most likely
you're scaring those people away,especially if they're consumer
direct.
With the referrals, you can get
(10:57):
away with some bad behavior.
If they are cold leads, if you
data lists, they're, know,whatever it is, wherever you're
getting your sources from, it'smuch harder to convert.
So think about like how younormally would text a friend.
You don't text long paragraphsmost of the time.
You're texting short.
You're asking one or two
questions, right?You're not trying to sell them.
You're just trying to have aconversation, ask questions and
get them into the next stage ofthe process, which again, as a
(11:18):
salesperson, our goal is to getthem on a phone call.
But especially if they're cold, wehave to nurture them to the point
where they trust us so thatthey'll take our call, especially
with younger generations,millennials, things like that.
We have to understand what is itthat makes them feel comfortable
and also not trying to go straightfor the sales.
We talk about commission breathall the time.
A lot of times, loan officers havethis big commission breath.
They're like, oh man, they're notready to buy.
They're tire kickers.
Like, no, they just don't know who
(11:39):
you are and they don't trust you.
And you need to work through that
process.
Like that is your job as a
salesperson is to build trust.
A lot of times if you're getting
referrals, you don't have to dothat, but I'm on a soapbox here.
But one thing that's interestingto me is I recently launched a
YouTube channel a couple monthsago and my most viewed video is
how to generate leads.
One of my least viewed video is
(12:00):
how to convert more leads.
What's funny is it seems like most
people think that they need moreleads when really what they need
to do is do a better job with theleads they already have.
And so I mean, that's kind of theconversation we're having here is
understanding your metrics andunderstanding like, hey, like, you
may not need more leads, you justmay need to do a better job of
keeping up with your leads,application starts, applications
completed, you know, but notdocuments back, documents back,
but no contract, right?Like, these are all the different
phases of that, that you need tothink about.
And so what you're doing, you guyshave like different stages along
(12:22):
the way that you can have someautomation that helps or at least
notify the loan officer whencertain things Oh, yeah, for sure.
Right.
I think what's important to note
is like, we've built our system tobe very flexible.
So you can build an automation orworkflow off of any field and, you
know, notify yourself off of anyevent that happens.
Like there's a lot of flexibilityin our system, which is great.
But of course, we learned that,you know, to your point, like new
to the game, you don't know thedifference between what text
message gets an engagement andconverts versus one that does.
(12:46):
And so we have what's calledplaybooks where you can basically
take you know content andautomations that are tried and
true and work and eventually overtime you can make them your own
and improve on them but you knowwe have all the data in the back
end and we see what's working andwhat's not working and we're able
to kind of help curate content forour users that just works and get
some results and so i think toyour point, like, again, it just
is the numbers thing.
It's just being very objective
about it.
Like some people are really good
(13:07):
at converting leads and that'stheir thing, right?
And then others are really good atlike that touch point or going out
there and kind of prospecting, butthen they get someone, you know,
in the hopper and it's like, well,I'm out there prospecting some
more.
And that's okay.
Leverage technology to help youkind of overcome maybe the areas
where are just not as interestingto you or you don't spend as much
time on.
And so we have playbooks for all
(13:27):
of that, like new lead, you know,coming from X source and they get
into the point of sale, you know,they stop pulling out their
application or need some documentsor there's a needs list.
I mean, all that stuff's in thereand it can all be turned on.
But again, I really think it comesto this concept of knowing your
numbers and because that'seye-opening, right?
Like everyone says you need moreleads and maybe that's true.
But when you see you'reconverting, you know, a hundred
(13:50):
leads, you get 20 applicationsthat are completed and you know,
10 of those close, like, which isindustry averages here.
Like that's eye-opening.
It's like, wow.
Okay.
There's a lot of money to be made
there.
And maybe if I just click a couple
buttons here, turn on thesecampaigns, I can start to do that.
Like I think people start to seethat when they see the numbers.
Otherwise, it's just too nebulousto Yeah, agreed.
And one of the concepts we teachon as well is like little hinges
(14:11):
swing big doors, right?And so thinking about like these
little micro changes, if you canjust increase your contact rate by
10%, and you can increase yourapplication rate by 10%, and you
can increase your pre approvalrate by 5% or 10%, whatever.
If you can just do all theselittle 10% increments on all of
these different phases of theprocess, it's not just a 10%
increase at the end.
It's like 100% increase at the
end, right?It's like you can double your
(14:31):
business just by improving theselittle tiny things by 10%, right?
Each of these different stages inthe funnel, the buyer journey.
Because ultimately, one thing weteach on as well is like at every
stage of the process, like peopleare looking for reasons not to
buy, right?Like especially when they're
coming from a cold source, buteven referrals like, like they're
like, oh, this is too good to betrue or whatever.
Like, and we say this too, objectsat rest stay at rest, right?
So it's the same thing.
Humans are typically moving away
(14:52):
from pain or moving towardspleasure.
And mostly we're moving away frompain a lot of times, right?
And so let's be honest, fillingout a freaking long ass
application is not very fun,right?
It's a painful experience most ofthe time, right?
Having to upload documents and gofind and go find your W-2s and go
do like, that's a painful piece ofconversation.
How do you create urgency aroundthose things?
How do you build trust?How do you get people to move
forward and let them know that,hey, if you don't get these things
(15:13):
to us, you can't buy your house.
There's outcomes and there's
opportunity costs that they'remissing on if they don't move
forward and let them know that, ifyou hey, don't get these things to
you can't us, buy your There'shouse.
outcomes and there's opportunitycosts that they're missing on if
they don't move forward.
But part of that comes down to the
conversations and, you know, thefollow ups and automations and
staying on task.
Absolutely.
It's just the communication,right?
There's been sort of studies doneon this thing.
(15:33):
But it's like, you know, you go tothe dentist and you have some
painful procedure.
You know, if the dentist just says
nothing, gets right into itversus, you know, pats you on the
shoulder and says, Hey, look,like, I know this is not going to
be fun, but don't worry about thisa lot of times.
And you know, I gotcha.
Right.
And just psychologically, theamount of pain and discomfort
people experience is likeexponentially different.
It's so different here, right?Someone starts an application,
they get to like, gosh, I don'tknow what I'm doing.
(15:55):
But you hit him with a text, youknow, a few hours later hey just
thinking about you like i knowthis can be a lot like not sure if
you got a chance to look at theapp my team's here for you i'm
here for you just give me a calli'm happy to help you like that's
what people want to hear like ithink everyone tries to streamline
and make it like this perfectprocess and i mean yeah that's
(16:15):
great but it's hard to controlsome of that stuff at the end of
the day and some of it is painfulit's just the reality of it and so
building that trust just lettingpeople know you're there for them,
you're communicating with them andsetting those expectations of
like, sometimes this is annoying,I get it, but I'm here for you.
Like that goes a long way versuslike, you know, the cycle, a lot
of us get into is they started anapp and, you know, now it's been
three days and, oh, what do we donow?
Like, you know, okay, maybe I'llgive it two more days to figure it
out.
And they don't.
And then it's like, well, now Ieven feel bad calling them because
(16:36):
like, you know, are theyinterested?
Am I bugging them?Or am I, you know, just being on
top of it and being proactivehelps a lot.
And again, like that's a hardthing for most humans to be good
at.
And I think it's a great place to
leverage technology to really kindof spark those conversations.
It's not replacing you.
It's just putting you in front of
them in a way where you can dowhat you do best.
It's so be good Yeah, I agree,man.
That's the sort of differentiatoris like, it's not there to replace
(16:59):
you, but it is there to supportyou.
And I think that's the bigdifference, right?
Again, like the amount of timesI've heard someone say like, I
just want a way to get anothercouple of loans a month automated.
I'm like, that doesn't exist, man.
You don't get paid $3,000 to
$10,000 per deal deal because it'sautomated like you get paid that
because you're bringing thebusiness in and you're doing the
work that's required to get themoney like sure again technology
is our friend ai is going to begreat you know to help us simplify
a lot of things i mean we'reworking on some cool ai follow-up
(17:20):
stuff for i'm sure like in thefuture you guys are probably gonna
ask some of that stuff involved ifyou don't already and so that's
what's cool is like you know beingable to use some of these tools to
again, start conversations, but atthe end of the day, they're not
going to convert them for you.
They're not going to build the
chest for you.
They're going to have
conversations, right?But you still got to do the work.
So interesting, like from yourperspective, like you probably
have a lot of data.
(17:42):
What are like the biggest things
that drive ROI from like usingyour system?
What stage is kind of the best ROIdriver?
system?What stage is kind of the best ROI
driver?Yeah, absolutely.
So I think there's probably a fewbuckets to this.
So I think bucket one is thatsales funnel lead conversion.
Like I just wish there was anotherway around that.
But again, we're talking 100 leadsand 10 typically closed loans.
Like that's your biggestopportunity, right?
I think we've kind of beat that todeath a little bit, but I just
agree that is the biggestopportunity.
(18:03):
The next two biggest opportunitiesare on that.
Okay.
I do 10 loans out of a hundred
leads and the industry average isabout 16%.
So let's call it maybe two, ifyou're really good at those 10, do
a transaction with you again.
And so there's an opportunity
there to stay in front of them andto really become that trusted
advisor.
And you do that by providing value
and providing relevant content tothem, which we can talk about.
But you also do that by providinga great transaction process.
And they see how you care aboutthem and how you're making sure
(18:24):
everything's taken care of.
And that builds trust.
And then it's leveraging thattrust to stay in front of them and
maintain that relationship.
So when they maybe are thinking
about a refi or investmentproperty or something, they're not
even thinking about it.
They're just calling you, hey,
what do you think about this?And I'm part of that too, but
there's a lot that technology cando there.
And so I think that's bucketnumber two.
And bucket number three is goingto be kind of that referral
partner management piece, which isa great communication to referral
(18:44):
partners, particularly to alisting agent or things like that
on a transaction.
It's going really well.
You can definitely wow people.
And you know, I mean, those
transactions are all the base.
And like I said, I think the
lender is the quarterback.
So great, be a quarterback and
drop the right play and get theball where it needs to go.
And you know, wide receivers wantto play for people like that.
And so there's a huge opportunity,I think, on that standpoint, to
(19:07):
really make sure that yourreferral partners are just the
agents of all the transactions.
They know exactly what's going on
all the time.
They're up to date.
They never, ever worry about, youknow, your eye on the ball.
And again, most of that stuff canreally be automated, you know?
And so I think those are thethree, I'd say, big opportunities
for the loan officer.
I think enterprise is a little bit
different, but I think loanofficer, those are the main Yeah,
that makes sense, man.
Because interesting, you said 16%.
(19:27):
Yeah, I was on a podcast with aguy from Monitorbase and they said
19%.
So right around the same number,
right?So 80 something percent of future
transactions that you think, youknow, I get these clients for
life.
Like how many loan officers say
that?And then just like the whole idea
of 20% application, they'reshocked that that's the number.
And I'm like, it's even lower mostof the time with the online leads,
right?Then referrals.
(19:48):
So if it's 20%, you know, withreferrals, you know, you can get
higher, especially with referrals,because those people are going to
come in with a ton of trust.
But it's interesting because yeah,
the future business, I mean, inmarketing, we always learn
lifetime value, right?When we talk about LTV in the
mortgage industry, they'rethinking loan to value, not
lifetime value, right?So, you know, that's a concept
that I think that loan officersneed to understand is like, Hey,
(20:09):
like it costs a lot more money toacquire new clients than it does
to keep the existing clients youhave.
Right.
And so why are we missing out?
Why do loan officers so often missout on these future transactions?
Again, according to monitor base,it was like something like in 11
years, there's four averagetransactions that happen one
purchase every 11 years, and thentwo refinances within those 11
years.
That's four transactions you can
get.
And as long as you're trying to be
(20:29):
in this business for more than thenext 11 years, there's four
transactions most likely that youcan get from every single person.
Now, obviously, the law ofaverages, not everybody's going to
do that.
Some people may do more and some
people do less.
But you're missing out on a lot of
opportunities by thinkingtransactionally instead of by
thinking long-term, long term,lifetime value?
How do I get future business fromthese people and structuring your
business that way?So does your technology help with
(20:51):
sort of that full lifetime journeyfrom lead to closed to post closed
nurture?Yeah, absolutely.
And I think a lot of that starts,again, through that transaction
process, right?Like if it's a good experience for
the customer, they're going tomuch more likely to transact with
you than if it's like a mediocreexperience for sure, right?
And so I think it starts in thetransaction, which is just as
things are happening, you're justcommunicating that super timely
manner and the method they want tobe communicated to.
Like again, like if you havemillennial homebuyers purchasing a
(21:12):
home for the first time, likedon't send them emails.
Like they don't want emailshearing my loan is officially
approved.
They want a text message saying
this is what this is.
And don't worry, this happens on
basically every loan.
And this is what we need to do.
Like, that's what they want.
Right.
And yet, very few systems actuallydo that.
You know, and it's like, they getthis email, they're like, I'm
going to call this loan officerand you're busy and you don't get
back to them for a few hours.
(21:33):
It's just like, why?
Like, remove that just friction,get out in front of provide a it,
great experience.
And there's a lot we can kind of
talk through But there.
you then, after you know, fund a
give back to them for a few It'sjust hours.
why?Remove like, that Just friction.
get out in front of Provide a it.
great experience.
And there's a lot we can talkthrough there.
But then after you fund atransaction, how do you
communicate?Are you going to send them a gift
(21:53):
and congratulate them?Something meaningful.
We have a customer that sendscutting boards that are branded
when they get home.
That's a really cool, creative
touchpoint.
And we have gifting automations
already built in.
So you can just pick something and
use it if you want to.
So I guess experience's that
feeling.
And then it's how do I stand in
front of this person and providevalue?
and it's like, they get this home.
You know, I'm sure you know this
(22:14):
way better than me.
I think we found that like, you
know, this whole idea of everyweek I send out this email or
every month on the same day I sendthis, it just seems predictable
and not personal.
But, you know, really thinking
about like what's going on in themarket, what's going on in their
neighborhood, what's going on intheir neighborhood, providing
something to them, whether it's inNew York or not, just saying, Hey,
(22:37):
I'm just sending this around.
Hope this helps.
Video is big too.
People are way more likely to
engage and respond to video.
That type of content, again,
continues to position you as thatexpert.
And thinking on an annual basis tomaybe on a monthly basis or
bi-monthly, whatever it I is, havethis content going out.
But on an annual basis, am on amonthly basis or bi-monthly
whatever it is i have this contentgoing out but on an annual basis
(22:59):
like am i making just a phone callto check in it's been a year since
we've done this you know how arethings going for you you know
would love to help in any way oryou know i'd love to show you kind
of how much equity you have nowwhat options i can open up for you
so i think like that's kind oflike the proactive and then of
course there is a reactive whichlike a monitor base or the other
platforms do too, which is like,okay, this person can drop
(23:20):
mortgage insurance.
This person should refinance.
That's obvious.
Right.
I think there's more of thosethings.
Then, you know, even some of theseplatforms are pulling in life
events, like, Hey, they have athree bedroom house and have their
third kid.
Like they probably, you know,
we're going to look to move or,you know, it's a great time to
reach out.
And so I think there's more of the
kind of proactive versus thereactive.
We're really strong on theproactive side.
And then we do a decent amount ofthe reactive, but yeah, maybe not
as much as like a self-imprimedring or something like that.
They're great at that.
And we partner with them and, you
know, we have elements built in.
And cool.
I mean, cause like, yeah, thereactive stuff you want to be get
in front of them before they, youknow, get to the point where
(23:42):
they're pulling credit withanother lender.
Not that you can't save thatperson if you get to them, but
obviously you're a little late ifthey're going with someone else.
I don't know a lot of people thathave saved that.
I just got to be honest.
I'm not saying it's not valuable,
but I really have not heard manystories at all of, hey, I
transacted this person two yearsago.
They're pulling credit withanother lender, and I got them to
do a loan with me.
Sure.
I mean, have you heard of storieslike that?
(24:03):
I of I have you heard me.
of Like, stories mean, like that?
I don't know.
I've heard of people saying they
use those platforms, but Ihonestly haven't dug too deep
into, like, how many of those areyou actually saving?
But yeah, you're right, man.
The proactive is really the thing
that matters the most and allthose different touches.
So I do like that because, youknow, ultimately it comes down to,
like, you're giving value, butyou're right.
I mean, you know, a lot of times,like all these CRMs that people
(24:24):
have, like, guess what they alldo?
They all send.
I don't want to call them stupid,
but they all send these stupidtemplated holiday emails.
Guess who else is sending holidayemails?
Every single other loan officerand every other single real estate
agent and every other singlecompany that has ever transacted
with this person is sending themholiday messages.
So that is not going to stand outfrom anybody.
Right.
So is it a personal card or
something like that that you cansend them?
Right.
you But, I know, guess from your
you CRM, can trigger some of thatstuff.
Do you use something likehandwritten or anything like that?
But you can send those like cardsthat are looking like they're
(24:45):
handwritten, but they're not.
Yeah, we do have some integrations
there.
So you certainly can.
We all try to think out of the boxto.
Like, you know, example would be,and this is not something we'd
recommend everyone turn on.
Like you gotta kind of have to own
it and be into it.
But like, okay, maybe instead of
sending out a happy Memorial Dayemail, why don't you send out like
a happy National Donuts Day emailor something just like once you
(25:05):
can get outside.
There's other kinds of creative
ways to do it.
Again, I just think this comes
back to the numbers piece.
Cause what happens is let's say
the database, a thousand peopleand you send out a happy Halloween
video.
What's going to happen is you
might have one or two people thatrespond that say, Oh, well, thank
you for this.
Right.
And then you're thinking like,this was the best thing ever.
Right.
I got these two emails from these
people saying, thanks for thishappy Halloween video.
Right.
This is great.
Right.
And I hear this all the time.
(25:26):
I love that.
But then it's like, so I have 1000
people.
How many people open?
How many people engage?How many people unsubscribe?
you actually look Well, at thoseIt's numbers.
have a thousand like, oh, how manypeople people, how many people
open, how many people engage,unsubscribe?
you actually look Well, at thosenumbers.
It's like, oh, wow, this thingreally sucks.
You know, but I can see how likethere's that false, you know, kind
of flag.
I'm like, oh, two people.
So this is great.
Like, oh, this is working for me.
It's like, well, I mean, itdepends on your goals.
(25:46):
If, you know, a 0.2% engagementrate is your goal, then sure, it's
working for you.
But if your engagement, you know,
is higher than that, then like,yeah, it's just not right.
We got to think a little oh, thisis well and you know i mean who
wants to really be whatevercelebrated on holidays by a
business like the truth is likethey know your business and so by
doing that like it feels kind oflike not genuine like oh you're
(26:07):
just trying to touch me duringthese times so anyway you know it
is what it is like i'm not sayingdon't have that kind of stuff but
i'm just saying that that shouldnot be your only source because
mostly those are just gonna bethrown straight into the trash
right like if they don'tunsubscribe they're just gonna
throw it in the trash i mean igenerally don't open that kind of
(26:28):
content to be kind of yeah wellthink about like so how many do
you get right like that's a goodthing for the office to think
about like because i get all theemail from like my state farm
agent and everybody yeah happybirthday card from my doctor and
stuff like so how many do you getokay so it's the best question
right there's a lot of ways foryou stand out yeah i agree man and
that's huge so you know i kind ofwarned you before so i'm gonna put
you on the spot here but i don'tknow if you have any strategies
(26:49):
that you train your people on butwhat's like one strategy two
strategies like some ways thatloan officers can go out there get
some more business today i mean idon't know if it gets to
reactivations or again i don'twant to see it anything what is a
way that a loan officer can go outthere and gain some more business
in this market?Yeah.
So there's like the short termquick hitting things and then the
more long term things.
Okay.
Typically speaking, like havinggood processes and doing things
over time is how you're going tosucceed.
I know no one wants to hear that.
(27:10):
I certainly don't want to hear
that like all the time.
I don't love that.
Right.
But it just, just is true.
And so let's say, first andforemost, think about what are you
going to do this year?Are you going to implement a new
technology?Are you going to implement some
new processes?Again, if you're on that beginner
level, just starting to use tech,you're using Excel a year ago,
you're not going to be an expert.
That's fine.
Just make some small iterationsand continue to do better.
With that out of the way, what arelike the short-term ways to kind
of gain business?I think a lot of it has to do with
building the referral partners.
(27:30):
That is kind of the tried and true
way.
I think, again, trying to provide
value in any way that you can.
And I think trying to source
referral partners by creatingreally interesting content.
So a really good, well thought outmarket update that you're sending
out to them.
And even if it's cold, you're
buying a list of referralpartners, but you're still sending
something interesting that theymight want to read.
I think LinkedIn is a greatplatform to connect
professionally, again, to sharewho you are and what you're all
about.
And I think it's also looking in
(27:51):
your database today too, to justsee who's built equity in their
homes, just start calling thosepeople, right?
Someone did a loan with you Xamount of years or why not just
call those people?Because there's options there,
right?And there's a lot of people right
now that are in credit card debt.
There's a lot of people that, you
know, maybe something unfortunatehappened to them or, you know,
maybe they're thinking aboutdownsizing.
I mean, if you're really lookingfor something to do, just make
those calls and just see what youcan do to help, you know, and just
tell them, Hey, it's, I know it'stough times and people are
(28:11):
struggling economically andthere's a lot of programs and
options and I'm here to help inany way that I can.
So I don't think it's pick up thephone and, you know, tell people
that you're there to help andprovide value.
But I think a lot of the shinyobjects and you know, better than
me typically don't produce greatresults.
Like someone who's saying, here'sa big list of all these people
that want to refinance and it's athousand bucks.
It's like, if that was true, theywouldn't be selling it to you if
you make a million bucks of it.
So a lot of the shiny objects
(28:32):
aren't great.
So a Or they have to do the work,
right?Like here's the thing, like
there's no such thing as like,it's a thousand bucks for a big
list of people that can refinance.
They're probably gonna be super
cold, which means you're gonnahave to do a lot more work to
nurture them.
So I agree.
I mean, one tip that I'll give youthat maybe that will help you guys
is like one thing that we've beenrecently doing with clients, and
this is for cold leads, right?Because we help them get leads and
(28:57):
stuff like that.
But what we found was a lot of our
loan officers would have leadsthat would respond, they would
start the conversation, and thenthey would disappear.
And they would just sit in an incontact stage.
So we just sent out the simpletext that said something like,
Hey, this is john with whatevermortgage you reached out a while
back.
I just want to make sure you got
taken care of.
Are you still in the market to buy
a home?Something like that, right?
(29:17):
Something simple.
It wasn't quite those words, but
something like that.
Very simple.
We ran that test with 10 differentpeople.
And this is in the last two weekswith just like a small list of
past leads.
So these are cold leads.
These aren't even like actualreferrals and stuff.
I guess it would probably workeven better with referrals.
49 appointments got scheduled, 17applications, 10 pre-approvals and
two contracts in two weeks, right?From 10 clients that, you know,
(29:39):
maybe each of them had, you know,20, 30, 40, 50 people on those
lists.
Right.
And the other thing we did was wetold them to implement a zoom
strategy with those appointments.
So instead of it being like a
phone call, they implemented azoom and it just really seems to
be working really well too.
So those are some ways like
reactivations is a powerful way ifyou have a list of past clients if
(30:00):
you have a list of past leads thatyou haven't talked to in a while
like just a simple text like heyare you still in the market to buy
a home this is super easy and thenthere are some people that'll tell
you they bought a home which sucksbut that tells you that you know
there was opportunities there thatyou missed out on yeah they'll
respond to kick rocks okaywhatever it is what it is or
they'll respond yeah i'm still inthe market and there you you that,
there know, was opportunitiesthere that you missed out on.
(30:22):
They'll Yeah.
respond to kick rocks.
Okay, whatever.
It is what it is.
Or they'll respond.
Yeah, I'm still in the market.
And there you go.
Now you got some people that you
can talk to.
So I think that's a huge,
especially we've got a good CRMthat has good text capabilities.
You can do it via email, butyou're probably gonna get a much
better response.
You can call those people too,
right?You can know, I know a lot of
CRMs.
I don't know if you guys do, but
CRMs like where you can tell ifthey open the email, you can tell
(30:44):
if they, you know, got the textand stuff like that.
And then you can just call thosetype of people that's going to be
like your warmest type people soanyway it's worked it worked
really well I mean we've done thatin the past when rates dropped
with past clients as well so rightnow obviously rates haven't
dropped but if they do drop that'sa perfect opportunity to reach out
with text reach out with emailcall them right like you said so
anyway just some ideas that wefind yeah right it's working with
what you already have you alreadyhave people that raise their hand
we didn't give her to alreadypeople you've done business with
(31:05):
yeah like make those calls firstlike lead gen's tough and that's
like something like you spendyears on and you can do it but
like i mean yeah you're gonna goout there and do some ads and get
a lot of business like that'stough that's almost longer term
than most of them oh Oh oh Ohyeah, yeah, yeah.
We tell people with lead gen, likecold leads is typically 90 to 180
days where stuff really starts toturn, right?
So honestly working aged leads,like people that you, maybe you
(31:27):
bought leads six months ago, thosepeople were probably gonna be more
ready to buy now than they weresix months ago when they first
opted into whatever they weredoing.
Just because that's how thebuyer's journey works when it
comes to mortgage or real estate.
Like people don't understand that
the buyer's journey, we talk abouttop of funnel, the buyer's journey
starts a lot of times, somewherebetween six and 27 months, 24
months, whatever, before theyactually purchase.
People don't wake up in themorning and want to buy a $400,000
house and just say they're goingto.
(31:48):
They wake up, they get a cue, theysee Susie down the street, bought
a house.
They saw a Facebook post like,
man, Susie, how did you get thehouse?
Oh, you only need a 3% down.
I thought I needed 20% down.
Oh man, I can save up 15 grand.
Let's do this.
Okay, cool.
Now all of a sudden there's a six
month process.
They're looking on Zillow, they're
looking on realtor.com and nowthey're ready to buy, right?
And so what most loan officers andreal estate agents fail to
(32:08):
understand, I think real estateagents do typically a better job
of this because they're just usedto attracting the consumers.
So they usually know that theyhave to nurture them.
But loan officers a lot of timesget referrals that are ready to
buy right now.
So they're like, oh, it's a 90 day
cycle.
That's how people buy.
Well, no, that's how people buy.
100%.
Yeah.
Be that trusted advisor.
Let them know that there's a lotof interesting programs that are
there to help if they want to doanything.
There could be some reallycreative stuff with high rates.
There's a lot of leverage for loanofficer.
We don't really touch on our stufftoo.
I think that really helps theofficers as well.
I agree.
People who are coming to you, how
can I afford something?How can I do this?
(32:29):
Like, you know, I mean, that'swhere we're at right now.
So there's a lot of opportunitythere.
A hundred percent.
I agree with you.
the officers as well.
I agree.
funny.
We touched on what we had talked
about earlier is that most peopledon't need more leads.
They need to work the leadsbetter.
So really what we just talkedabout is calling the leads you
already have.
Most likely there's deals to be
had within the database that youalready have, whether it is past
clients or whether it be whateverleads or like as a loan officer,
like, you know, hit up your realestate agent and say, Hey, do you
got any leads that maybe youbought?
(32:49):
Or, you know, maybe you boughtsome Zillow leads.
Like if I call through them andsee if I can pull anything out of
them.
Absolutely.
Come on, man.
Yeah.
There's some new programs, youknow, whatever it is that you
have.
That's interesting.
Exactly.
Cool, man.
Any last parting words?I mean, thank you so much for your
time today.
Yeah, no, it's super great to be
on this.
I think you summed it up
perfectly.
There's a lot of action
(33:09):
opportunity to be done there.
And I think that again, investing
in, you know, technology and waysto streamline your process, there
really isn't a better time to doit.
I know like healing aren't asflush as they were in 2021, but
look, I mean, rates will come downeventually and there will be
opportunities and the people thatare going to, you know, really
crush it are going to be peoplethat made the investment and took
the time to build out theirprocesses now when it was a little
slower.
So I'd encourage people to see
(33:30):
that as an opportunity as well.
Yeah, I it sucks.
This does suck.
I'm not going to deny that the
last 24 months hasn't been hard,but yes, I do agree.
There is an opportunity foreverybody who makes it through.
I mean, if you're still in theindustry right now, I mean, this
is being recorded in what April of2024.
If you're still in the industry,then you are a trooper.
And, you know, putting thosesystems in place, getting yourself
ready for the inevitable boom thatwill come maybe 12 months, 18
(33:52):
months, I don't know.
Whenever it does come, whenever
rates do come down, there will bea boom.
So just be prepared.
That being said, Spencer, what is
the best way that people canconnect with you online, learn a
little bit more about ADM or justin general, learn more about what
you guys are Yeah, absolutely.
Best place to learn more about ADM
is to go to ThinkADM.
So just think an A-I-D-I-U-M.com.
You can definitely see what we'vegot going on online or schedule
demo to take a look at it.
(34:13):
People that want to connect or
follow me, best place is LinkedInand happy to connect.
And we love learning for ourcustomers.
We try not to have any ego inthis.
So if you see our platform or seethings and have feedback for us,
we're interested in that.
So the only way we can help one
officers is to hear from them asto what they need.
So Cool, man.
So you guys all heard that.
We'll put it in the show notes aswell.
Thinkadium.com.
Thank you so much today for your
time.
My big takeaways from today,
(34:34):
again, was leveraging technologyto help your journey.
But ultimately, it comes down toit's not just the only thing
that's going to convert, but it issomething that is important.
So implement technology, work yourexisting leads better.
I mean, I think we touched on thatmaybe three or four times, both
your past client database andpeople who maybe haven't engaged
people who started an application,but didn't complete it.
People who completed theapplication, but didn't submit
their documents.
Like those are all opportunities
in this market.
And yes, I know people are scared.
People are putting things off.
You never know.
(34:55):
You know, you never know what'sgoing to come out of that.
So thank you so much for your timetoday, Spencer.
And for anybody who is listeningand is looking for some help on
generating some more leads, maybeyou don't got enough leads.
Go to FlipTheStatusQuo.com.
Thank you so much for listening
and have a great day.
you for tuning into the Loans On
Demand podcast onLoansOnDemandpodcast.com.
podcast, the show where we flipthe real estate status quo on its
head and put loan officers intothe driver's seat.
We give you all the tools,strategies, resources, and mindset
needed to modernize your mortgagebusiness and thrive.
My name is Luke Shankula, aka LongForm Luke, and this is the Loans
On Demand podcast.
going on?
Welcome to the Loans On DemandPodcast, the show where we help
(00:25):
loan officers flip the status quoon real estate agents and put loan
officers in the driver's seat.
And I'm excited because today we
have Spencer Desbarre, the founderand CEO of Adium, serial
entrepreneur.
He's done this a few different
times, but he's doing some coolthings with mortgage CRMs, some AI
cool things that maybe we can'ttalk about today.
Maybe we can't, but hey, you knowwhat?
Welcome to the show.
What's going on, Spencer?
Yeah, no, great to be here.
(00:46):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
So give us a little background on
who you are.
Obviously, I gave your titles, but
give us a background.
Who is Spencer?
What has you in this space?And you know, kind of what's your
background?Yeah, for sure.
So I'm a serial entrepreneur,which means that I've done a lot
of things that didn't work out andtried my best to learn from those
failures until you kind of get tosomething that maybe works out a
little bit.
And that first thing for me was a
(01:07):
company doing predictive data andanalytics in the real estate
space.
So kind of predicting people will
be more likely to sell homes,generating leads, selling those
leads to realtors.
I was able to work really closely
with a bunch of realtors and beganto see some of the challenges that
they experienced on a day-to-daybasis.
Like, you know, I think realtorsare like one of the few
professionals out there that pickup their phone day and night, not
(01:29):
even knowing who the number isthat's calling them.
And I think that speaks to justhow messy real estate transactions
are.
People are not on the same page
and, you know, also selling leads.
And we were talking about this for
the start of the show.
People always complain about the
lead quality.
And it's like, I would ask, okay,
so unpack that for And me.
they'd say things like, well, I
(01:49):
made a call, but then I got reallybusy.
I haven't really followed up and Idon't have a listing yet.
And it's like, well, I get that.
And I get the persona and all the
stuff they have going on.
I think it's just surprising for
me.
There wasn't a lot of great tech
that was really just helping themstreamline their day-to-day and
helping them streamline their topof funnel, converting their leads.
And I saw an opportunity to dothat and saw the lender as the
quarterback of a transaction in away where you got to get the loan
done.
And I think I saw even more
antiquated technology in the worldof mortgage and decided to start
(02:11):
Moose Daily Eye.
Now we've rebranded to ADM and
we've been doing this since 2019.
Awesome, man.
Well, I'll just say this.
You're right.
The hard thing about the mortgageindustry and real estate industry
is there's such a big cost to sortof bring in new tech, right?
And then obviously then there'sthe other side of things, which is
actually getting loan officers toadopt new tech.
And so I think a lot of times it'seasier for these mortgage
(02:31):
companies, especially the bigones, to just kind of stick with
what they've always used becauseeverybody kind of knows how to use
it.
And it just kind of becomes
embedded within the culture, notculture, but just easier, right?
Easier than upgrading.
And so, yeah, traditionally, I
think the industry has been veryslow to make adaptations to the
market.
And I think with AI coming around,
I mean, like with the things thatare happening with AI, with the
generative models, with LLMs andthe chatbots and things like that,
(02:53):
there will be a shift here in thenext few years where they're going
to have to adopt the tech orthey're going to get left behind.
And I think that's coming wayfaster than people really believe.
So I don't know what your thoughtsare on Way faster.
Absolutely.
You could look at it as a pro or a
con, right?And I think it's a pro.
Like this technology and some ofthe stuff that we're trying to do
at ADM, like it's genuinelyhelping borrowers have better
(03:14):
experiences and it's genuinelymaking loan officers lives better
and helping them make more money.
Like, I think that's a pro.
I mean, sure, there is that con oflike, I got to get and adopt this
new piece of technology, butoverall, I think it's for the
better.
And, you know, I think one of the
things that I, to your point, likethis idea of, you know, larger,
let's say, IMBs or brokeragesswitching technology, and they've
been reluctant to do it.
You know, I think that sentiment
(03:35):
is changing a bit.
And the question that I usually
ask, like, let's say it's a headof production at an independent
mortgage bank, I would ask them,you know, when's the last time you
lost a top producer?And they might say like, ah, you
know, three months ago, and I'mstill really, you know, salty
about and it, whatever.
you And, know, the follow ago and
I'm still really, you know, saltyabout it and whatever.
And, you know, the follow-upquestion I ask is, so how much of
(03:56):
an impact did your technologystack have on them going?
And it's like, what do you mean bythat?
And so, you know, to reframe it,like a one is basically your
technology had no impact on theirdecision to leave.
They were like, great, I'm justgoing to leave and go somewhere
else.
A 10 is like, they left and they
called you up and said, I made thebiggest mistake ever.
I didn't realize how good thetechnology is.
Can I just please come back?And the answer is always a two or
a three.
I've got this corporate CRM and
our tech stack and no one reallycares.
(04:18):
And so my question to that islike, well, then, I mean, why are
you paying all this money for someof these pieces of technology?
It has no impact on your abilityto retain your top producers and
recruit new ones.
And it's just not working for you.
So I think some people are tryingto figure that out and are a
little more open to thoseconversations.
Yeah, it makes sense, man.
I mean, you know, because you're
right.
A lot of times people don't even
want to use the internal softwarethat companies have.
(04:38):
So that's probably a hurdle thatyou guys sort of face.
And I know one of the things thatyou guys do when you are rolling
out this software is you help withimplementation.
So what does that look like?Like, how do you get people to use
software?Because, you know, as like we were
talking before, I mean, as amarketing agency, one of our
hardest things that is, is likeactually getting loan officers to
implement the processes that wehave in place to log into the CRM,
to text people back, to, you know,pick up the phone and call people
(04:59):
to answer the phone, like thingslike that.
And, you know, to roll out a newCRM, a new piece of tech on top of
whatever Encompass and otherthings that they have in process,
what does that look like?And how do you do that in an
efficient or effective Yeah, itlooks a little bit different for a
loan officer, a team or a branchversus an enterprise.
We're probably one of the few toactually work with all those
categories.
But really, our framework
internally is the same, which iswe have this sort of we call it
(05:21):
like beginner, intermediate,advanced expert, essentially.
And the goal is to get everybodykind of moving up that, you know,
climbing that mountain, so tospeak.
And so the way that we look at itis, you know, from a beginner
standpoint is like, great, are wenurturing and engaging your
database?Are we maybe integrating to your
LOS and providing updates as loansare underwritten?
Maybe intermediate is, are weintegrating your lead sources?
Are we doing lead conversioncampaigns?
Are we integrating with your pointof sale?
(05:41):
Maybe that advanced is like, areyou starting to build your own
custom campaigns where now you'resaying like, actually, if we did
this when a loan was funded, wesent a gift to them, that's what I
want to do.
Or, you know, hey, I actually have
a really great idea on how I wantto kind of convert leads and
communicate my referral partners,like things like that, you're
starting to think about how youcustomize and make it your own.
(06:05):
You know, an expert is like,you're just kind of going all the
way, like you're kind ofcustomizing everything and
integrating a bunch of differentdata sources.
And so we like to think of it thatway, You kind of, you start small
and you progressively do more andmore.
We're heavily invested in ourclients doing that.
I mean, if you ask anyone thatworks at ADM, that's the thing we
actually look at most.
(06:26):
It's not how many new sales are we
getting and all this.
It's how many customers are going
from beginner to intermediate orintermediate to advanced, right?
That's our North Star as acompany.
And so I think for us, we look atit that way.
And I think underscoring theentire thing is data.
So we put a lot of emphasis indata and loan officers, teams,
branches, enterprises we workwith, we always ask, do you know
your numbers?Do you know your conversion rates?
Do you know your re-engagementrates?
Things like that.
(06:46):
And most of the time, people
don't.
And so I think the numbers show
where you can have room forimprovement.
Like if your lead application rateis really low, how can we help
with that?Like what content can we turn on
to make sure that that improves?And so for us, it's that
trajectory.
It's beginner, intermediate,
advanced, expert, you know, andtrying to be data-driven about
where can we also add value?Like we don't want to just turn
stuff on for the sake of turningit on.
(07:06):
We actually want it to work,right?
And I think that's where a lot ofpeople just get disenchanted with
tech because it's like, I'mturning this stuff on.
I have no idea what this is doingfor me.
I think for us, it's like, we wantto very clearly show you how it's
helping your that makes sense.
I mean, I think there's the other
side of things where people arehopeful that technology or
(07:27):
automation will replace the needto have them do any of the work
and they just magically have, youknow, applications fall in their
lap.
And so I'm assuming part of what
you talk about is, all right,well, yes, tech is one piece and
that helps with conversations.
But at the end of the day, you got
to do some of the work, right?I mean, you talked about lead to
application.
Do you do some nurturing there?
Are you kind of saying, hey, like,what's your sales process?
Like, what does that look likefrom the Yeah.
(07:48):
So the way we would look at leadto application is we would first
want our customers to kind to seewhat that looks like.
And so just industry average leadto application completed is about
20%.
And people always think that
that's crazy, but it's really not.
And loan officers always say,
there's no way I'm way better thanthat.
It's like, what do you know yournumbers?
No, I don't.
So okay, well, that proves the
point.
And that's fine.
It just shows there's a lot ofopportunity to improve there.
(08:09):
And so a lot of that is when alead comes in, where's your
process to convert and drive it toan application.
And so I think it's that speed tolead first touch point, you know,
engaging and getting in front ofthem, which obviously our system
can do through automation.
I know other systems do this too,
but it's also, you know, makingsure that you're communicating in
a way that works like throughtexting or things like that or
maybe integrating video to kind ofdifferentiate yourself a little
bit converting leads via emailjust is not a good idea as i'm
(08:31):
sure you it doesn't work great buthere's the truth just to kind of
touch on that is every medium isimportant because some people feel
more comfortable communicating viaemail small percentage these days
but there is still a smallpercentage of people that do
prefer to communicate via email.
Most are going to be communicating
via text.
And then, you know, you also have
to pick up the phone and callthem.
And obviously there's voicemaildrops and things like that that
you can do as well.
(08:52):
But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of
variables there that play into it.
And I think email does a good job
and more of the nurture sort oflong term, you know, trust
building stuff, but not as much ofthe instant sort of like, Hey,
respond to this email type thing.
Right?
Yeah, term, you absolutely.
And and so i'm with you i think
you do everything but again likeyou know if you're just doing text
(09:13):
you're probably leaving somethingon the table and so you know let's
get in front of them quickly andthen we see this all the time and
any loan officer that's looking todo more business i encourage you
like if you have a simple nexus orflowify or blend or whatever point
of sale you're using like open itup and see how many people have
started and haven't finished.
And there's usually a lot of
people in there.
And I think for us, like we have
integrations with all those pointof sales and then some.
(09:34):
And so for us, it's also saying,hey, great, when someone starts
the application, this happens allthe time, right?
It's like someone starts it andit's like, oh, I got to upload
these documents.
So I got to pick up my kid for
school.
And then it's like, whatever, I'll
get to it whenever I get to it.
And so we think of it as like the
abandoned shopping cart analogy oflike someone starts and stops.
And the reality is some people arereally good at staying on top of
that.
But again, you're getting new
(09:54):
leads.
You got to reach out to those
leads.
It's kind of the shiny object.
You get the dopamine hit when thenew lead comes in.
And so for us, we try to set upthose automations to help you
really recapture people as theystart the app and stop.
And you do it in a really niceway.
Like, hey, I'm just here to help.
I know it can be daunting to set
up an app.
I'd love to get you pre-qualified.
Give me a call if there's anythingI can do to help.
And we've seen that like two,three X people's pull through
(10:16):
rates at that point, right?And so there's just, there's
little things like that you can doto help increase that.
And so you're right, you gotta dothe work, but why not have the
technology do some of that workfor you?
At least the stuff that's harderto get to.
I I think automation with any sortof lead generation, even if it's
not consumer direct, even if it'slike a referral, there has to be
some element of automation that isin play for the touch points right
now.
That being said, I mean, different
models require more or lessautomation, but I do think there
(10:37):
is always a value to having someform of automation as long as you
don't expect it to do all of theheavy lifting for you, right?
It will help.
It will start conversations.
But generally, one thing I alwaystell people is our goal as
salespeople is to get somewhere onthe phone call, right?
But we need to understand thateach of these mediums need to be
communicated in a certain way,right?
So like email, you can writelonger emails and be okay.
Text message, if you're writingparagraphs of text, most likely
you're scaring those people away,especially if they're consumer
direct.
With the referrals, you can get
(10:57):
away with some bad behavior.
If they are cold leads, if you
data lists, they're, know,whatever it is, wherever you're
getting your sources from, it'smuch harder to convert.
So think about like how younormally would text a friend.
You don't text long paragraphsmost of the time.
You're texting short.
You're asking one or two
questions, right?You're not trying to sell them.
You're just trying to have aconversation, ask questions and
get them into the next stage ofthe process, which again, as a
(11:18):
salesperson, our goal is to getthem on a phone call.
But especially if they're cold, wehave to nurture them to the point
where they trust us so thatthey'll take our call, especially
with younger generations,millennials, things like that.
We have to understand what is itthat makes them feel comfortable
and also not trying to go straightfor the sales.
We talk about commission breathall the time.
A lot of times, loan officers havethis big commission breath.
They're like, oh man, they're notready to buy.
They're tire kickers.
Like, no, they just don't know who
(11:39):
you are and they don't trust you.
And you need to work through that
process.
Like that is your job as a
salesperson is to build trust.
A lot of times if you're getting
referrals, you don't have to dothat, but I'm on a soapbox here.
But one thing that's interestingto me is I recently launched a
YouTube channel a couple monthsago and my most viewed video is
how to generate leads.
One of my least viewed video is
(12:00):
how to convert more leads.
What's funny is it seems like most
people think that they need moreleads when really what they need
to do is do a better job with theleads they already have.
And so I mean, that's kind of theconversation we're having here is
understanding your metrics andunderstanding like, hey, like, you
may not need more leads, you justmay need to do a better job of
keeping up with your leads,application starts, applications
completed, you know, but notdocuments back, documents back,
but no contract, right?Like, these are all the different
phases of that, that you need tothink about.
And so what you're doing, you guyshave like different stages along
(12:22):
the way that you can have someautomation that helps or at least
notify the loan officer whencertain things Oh, yeah, for sure.
Right.
I think what's important to note
is like, we've built our system tobe very flexible.
So you can build an automation orworkflow off of any field and, you
know, notify yourself off of anyevent that happens.
Like there's a lot of flexibilityin our system, which is great.
But of course, we learned that,you know, to your point, like new
to the game, you don't know thedifference between what text
message gets an engagement andconverts versus one that does.
(12:46):
And so we have what's calledplaybooks where you can basically
take you know content andautomations that are tried and
true and work and eventually overtime you can make them your own
and improve on them but you knowwe have all the data in the back
end and we see what's working andwhat's not working and we're able
to kind of help curate content forour users that just works and get
some results and so i think toyour point, like, again, it just
is the numbers thing.
It's just being very objective
about it.
Like some people are really good
(13:07):
at converting leads and that'stheir thing, right?
And then others are really good atlike that touch point or going out
there and kind of prospecting, butthen they get someone, you know,
in the hopper and it's like, well,I'm out there prospecting some
more.
And that's okay.
Leverage technology to help youkind of overcome maybe the areas
where are just not as interestingto you or you don't spend as much
time on.
And so we have playbooks for all
(13:27):
of that, like new lead, you know,coming from X source and they get
into the point of sale, you know,they stop pulling out their
application or need some documentsor there's a needs list.
I mean, all that stuff's in thereand it can all be turned on.
But again, I really think it comesto this concept of knowing your
numbers and because that'seye-opening, right?
Like everyone says you need moreleads and maybe that's true.
But when you see you'reconverting, you know, a hundred
(13:50):
leads, you get 20 applicationsthat are completed and you know,
10 of those close, like, which isindustry averages here.
Like that's eye-opening.
It's like, wow.
Okay.
There's a lot of money to be made
there.
And maybe if I just click a couple
buttons here, turn on thesecampaigns, I can start to do that.
Like I think people start to seethat when they see the numbers.
Otherwise, it's just too nebulousto Yeah, agreed.
And one of the concepts we teachon as well is like little hinges
(14:11):
swing big doors, right?And so thinking about like these
little micro changes, if you canjust increase your contact rate by
10%, and you can increase yourapplication rate by 10%, and you
can increase your pre approvalrate by 5% or 10%, whatever.
If you can just do all theselittle 10% increments on all of
these different phases of theprocess, it's not just a 10%
increase at the end.
It's like 100% increase at the
end, right?It's like you can double your
(14:31):
business just by improving theselittle tiny things by 10%, right?
Each of these different stages inthe funnel, the buyer journey.
Because ultimately, one thing weteach on as well is like at every
stage of the process, like peopleare looking for reasons not to
buy, right?Like especially when they're
coming from a cold source, buteven referrals like, like they're
like, oh, this is too good to betrue or whatever.
Like, and we say this too, objectsat rest stay at rest, right?
So it's the same thing.
Humans are typically moving away
(14:52):
from pain or moving towardspleasure.
And mostly we're moving away frompain a lot of times, right?
And so let's be honest, fillingout a freaking long ass
application is not very fun,right?
It's a painful experience most ofthe time, right?
Having to upload documents and gofind and go find your W-2s and go
do like, that's a painful piece ofconversation.
How do you create urgency aroundthose things?
How do you build trust?How do you get people to move
forward and let them know that,hey, if you don't get these things
(15:13):
to us, you can't buy your house.
There's outcomes and there's
opportunity costs that they'remissing on if they don't move
forward and let them know that, ifyou hey, don't get these things to
you can't us, buy your There'shouse.
outcomes and there's opportunitycosts that they're missing on if
they don't move forward.
But part of that comes down to the
conversations and, you know, thefollow ups and automations and
staying on task.
Absolutely.
It's just the communication,right?
There's been sort of studies doneon this thing.
(15:33):
But it's like, you know, you go tothe dentist and you have some
painful procedure.
You know, if the dentist just says
nothing, gets right into itversus, you know, pats you on the
shoulder and says, Hey, look,like, I know this is not going to
be fun, but don't worry about thisa lot of times.
And you know, I gotcha.
Right.
And just psychologically, theamount of pain and discomfort
people experience is likeexponentially different.
It's so different here, right?Someone starts an application,
they get to like, gosh, I don'tknow what I'm doing.
(15:55):
But you hit him with a text, youknow, a few hours later hey just
thinking about you like i knowthis can be a lot like not sure if
you got a chance to look at theapp my team's here for you i'm
here for you just give me a calli'm happy to help you like that's
what people want to hear like ithink everyone tries to streamline
and make it like this perfectprocess and i mean yeah that's
(16:15):
great but it's hard to controlsome of that stuff at the end of
the day and some of it is painfulit's just the reality of it and so
building that trust just lettingpeople know you're there for them,
you're communicating with them andsetting those expectations of
like, sometimes this is annoying,I get it, but I'm here for you.
Like that goes a long way versuslike, you know, the cycle, a lot
of us get into is they started anapp and, you know, now it's been
three days and, oh, what do we donow?
Like, you know, okay, maybe I'llgive it two more days to figure it
out.
And they don't.
And then it's like, well, now Ieven feel bad calling them because
(16:36):
like, you know, are theyinterested?
Am I bugging them?Or am I, you know, just being on
top of it and being proactivehelps a lot.
And again, like that's a hardthing for most humans to be good
at.
And I think it's a great place to
leverage technology to really kindof spark those conversations.
It's not replacing you.
It's just putting you in front of
them in a way where you can dowhat you do best.
It's so be good Yeah, I agree,man.
That's the sort of differentiatoris like, it's not there to replace
(16:59):
you, but it is there to supportyou.
And I think that's the bigdifference, right?
Again, like the amount of timesI've heard someone say like, I
just want a way to get anothercouple of loans a month automated.
I'm like, that doesn't exist, man.
You don't get paid $3,000 to
$10,000 per deal deal because it'sautomated like you get paid that
because you're bringing thebusiness in and you're doing the
work that's required to get themoney like sure again technology
is our friend ai is going to begreat you know to help us simplify
a lot of things i mean we'reworking on some cool ai follow-up
(17:20):
stuff for i'm sure like in thefuture you guys are probably gonna
ask some of that stuff involved ifyou don't already and so that's
what's cool is like you know beingable to use some of these tools to
again, start conversations, but atthe end of the day, they're not
going to convert them for you.
They're not going to build the
chest for you.
They're going to have
conversations, right?But you still got to do the work.
So interesting, like from yourperspective, like you probably
have a lot of data.
(17:42):
What are like the biggest things
that drive ROI from like usingyour system?
What stage is kind of the best ROIdriver?
system?What stage is kind of the best ROI
driver?Yeah, absolutely.
So I think there's probably a fewbuckets to this.
So I think bucket one is thatsales funnel lead conversion.
Like I just wish there was anotherway around that.
But again, we're talking 100 leadsand 10 typically closed loans.
Like that's your biggestopportunity, right?
I think we've kind of beat that todeath a little bit, but I just
agree that is the biggestopportunity.
(18:03):
The next two biggest opportunitiesare on that.
Okay.
I do 10 loans out of a hundred
leads and the industry average isabout 16%.
So let's call it maybe two, ifyou're really good at those 10, do
a transaction with you again.
And so there's an opportunity
there to stay in front of them andto really become that trusted
advisor.
And you do that by providing value
and providing relevant content tothem, which we can talk about.
But you also do that by providinga great transaction process.
And they see how you care aboutthem and how you're making sure
(18:24):
everything's taken care of.
And that builds trust.
And then it's leveraging thattrust to stay in front of them and
maintain that relationship.
So when they maybe are thinking
about a refi or investmentproperty or something, they're not
even thinking about it.
They're just calling you, hey,
what do you think about this?And I'm part of that too, but
there's a lot that technology cando there.
And so I think that's bucketnumber two.
And bucket number three is goingto be kind of that referral
partner management piece, which isa great communication to referral
(18:44):
partners, particularly to alisting agent or things like that
on a transaction.
It's going really well.
You can definitely wow people.
And you know, I mean, those
transactions are all the base.
And like I said, I think the
lender is the quarterback.
So great, be a quarterback and
drop the right play and get theball where it needs to go.
And you know, wide receivers wantto play for people like that.
And so there's a huge opportunity,I think, on that standpoint, to
(19:07):
really make sure that yourreferral partners are just the
agents of all the transactions.
They know exactly what's going on
all the time.
They're up to date.
They never, ever worry about, youknow, your eye on the ball.
And again, most of that stuff canreally be automated, you know?
And so I think those are thethree, I'd say, big opportunities
for the loan officer.
I think enterprise is a little bit
different, but I think loanofficer, those are the main Yeah,
that makes sense, man.
Because interesting, you said 16%.
(19:27):
Yeah, I was on a podcast with aguy from Monitorbase and they said
19%.
So right around the same number,
right?So 80 something percent of future
transactions that you think, youknow, I get these clients for
life.
Like how many loan officers say
that?And then just like the whole idea
of 20% application, they'reshocked that that's the number.
And I'm like, it's even lower mostof the time with the online leads,
right?Then referrals.
(19:48):
So if it's 20%, you know, withreferrals, you know, you can get
higher, especially with referrals,because those people are going to
come in with a ton of trust.
But it's interesting because yeah,
the future business, I mean, inmarketing, we always learn
lifetime value, right?When we talk about LTV in the
mortgage industry, they'rethinking loan to value, not
lifetime value, right?So, you know, that's a concept
that I think that loan officersneed to understand is like, Hey,
(20:09):
like it costs a lot more money toacquire new clients than it does
to keep the existing clients youhave.
Right.
And so why are we missing out?
Why do loan officers so often missout on these future transactions?
Again, according to monitor base,it was like something like in 11
years, there's four averagetransactions that happen one
purchase every 11 years, and thentwo refinances within those 11
years.
That's four transactions you can
get.
And as long as you're trying to be
(20:29):
in this business for more than thenext 11 years, there's four
transactions most likely that youcan get from every single person.
Now, obviously, the law ofaverages, not everybody's going to
do that.
Some people may do more and some
people do less.
But you're missing out on a lot of
opportunities by thinkingtransactionally instead of by
thinking long-term, long term,lifetime value?
How do I get future business fromthese people and structuring your
business that way?So does your technology help with
(20:51):
sort of that full lifetime journeyfrom lead to closed to post closed
nurture?Yeah, absolutely.
And I think a lot of that starts,again, through that transaction
process, right?Like if it's a good experience for
the customer, they're going tomuch more likely to transact with
you than if it's like a mediocreexperience for sure, right?
And so I think it starts in thetransaction, which is just as
things are happening, you're justcommunicating that super timely
manner and the method they want tobe communicated to.
Like again, like if you havemillennial homebuyers purchasing a
(21:12):
home for the first time, likedon't send them emails.
Like they don't want emailshearing my loan is officially
approved.
They want a text message saying
this is what this is.
And don't worry, this happens on
basically every loan.
And this is what we need to do.
Like, that's what they want.
Right.
And yet, very few systems actuallydo that.
You know, and it's like, they getthis email, they're like, I'm
going to call this loan officerand you're busy and you don't get
back to them for a few hours.
(21:33):
It's just like, why?
Like, remove that just friction,get out in front of provide a it,
great experience.
And there's a lot we can kind of
talk through But there.
you then, after you know, fund a
give back to them for a few It'sjust hours.
why?Remove like, that Just friction.
get out in front of Provide a it.
great experience.
And there's a lot we can talkthrough there.
But then after you fund atransaction, how do you
communicate?Are you going to send them a gift
(21:53):
and congratulate them?Something meaningful.
We have a customer that sendscutting boards that are branded
when they get home.
That's a really cool, creative
touchpoint.
And we have gifting automations
already built in.
So you can just pick something and
use it if you want to.
So I guess experience's that
feeling.
And then it's how do I stand in
front of this person and providevalue?
and it's like, they get this home.
You know, I'm sure you know this
(22:14):
way better than me.
I think we found that like, you
know, this whole idea of everyweek I send out this email or
every month on the same day I sendthis, it just seems predictable
and not personal.
But, you know, really thinking
about like what's going on in themarket, what's going on in their
neighborhood, what's going on intheir neighborhood, providing
something to them, whether it's inNew York or not, just saying, Hey,
(22:37):
I'm just sending this around.
Hope this helps.
Video is big too.
People are way more likely to
engage and respond to video.
That type of content, again,
continues to position you as thatexpert.
And thinking on an annual basis tomaybe on a monthly basis or
bi-monthly, whatever it I is, havethis content going out.
But on an annual basis, am on amonthly basis or bi-monthly
whatever it is i have this contentgoing out but on an annual basis
(22:59):
like am i making just a phone callto check in it's been a year since
we've done this you know how arethings going for you you know
would love to help in any way oryou know i'd love to show you kind
of how much equity you have nowwhat options i can open up for you
so i think like that's kind oflike the proactive and then of
course there is a reactive whichlike a monitor base or the other
platforms do too, which is like,okay, this person can drop
(23:20):
mortgage insurance.
This person should refinance.
That's obvious.
Right.
I think there's more of thosethings.
Then, you know, even some of theseplatforms are pulling in life
events, like, Hey, they have athree bedroom house and have their
third kid.
Like they probably, you know,
we're going to look to move or,you know, it's a great time to
reach out.
And so I think there's more of the
kind of proactive versus thereactive.
We're really strong on theproactive side.
And then we do a decent amount ofthe reactive, but yeah, maybe not
as much as like a self-imprimedring or something like that.
They're great at that.
And we partner with them and, you
know, we have elements built in.
And cool.
I mean, cause like, yeah, thereactive stuff you want to be get
in front of them before they, youknow, get to the point where
(23:42):
they're pulling credit withanother lender.
Not that you can't save thatperson if you get to them, but
obviously you're a little late ifthey're going with someone else.
I don't know a lot of people thathave saved that.
I just got to be honest.
I'm not saying it's not valuable,
but I really have not heard manystories at all of, hey, I
transacted this person two yearsago.
They're pulling credit withanother lender, and I got them to
do a loan with me.
Sure.
I mean, have you heard of storieslike that?
(24:03):
I of I have you heard me.
of Like, stories mean, like that?
I don't know.
I've heard of people saying they
use those platforms, but Ihonestly haven't dug too deep
into, like, how many of those areyou actually saving?
But yeah, you're right, man.
The proactive is really the thing
that matters the most and allthose different touches.
So I do like that because, youknow, ultimately it comes down to,
like, you're giving value, butyou're right.
I mean, you know, a lot of times,like all these CRMs that people
(24:24):
have, like, guess what they alldo?
They all send.
I don't want to call them stupid,
but they all send these stupidtemplated holiday emails.
Guess who else is sending holidayemails?
Every single other loan officerand every other single real estate
agent and every other singlecompany that has ever transacted
with this person is sending themholiday messages.
So that is not going to stand outfrom anybody.
Right.
So is it a personal card or
something like that that you cansend them?
Right.
you But, I know, guess from your
you CRM, can trigger some of thatstuff.
Do you use something likehandwritten or anything like that?
But you can send those like cardsthat are looking like they're
(24:45):
handwritten, but they're not.
Yeah, we do have some integrations
there.
So you certainly can.
We all try to think out of the boxto.
Like, you know, example would be,and this is not something we'd
recommend everyone turn on.
Like you gotta kind of have to own
it and be into it.
But like, okay, maybe instead of
sending out a happy Memorial Dayemail, why don't you send out like
a happy National Donuts Day emailor something just like once you
(25:05):
can get outside.
There's other kinds of creative
ways to do it.
Again, I just think this comes
back to the numbers piece.
Cause what happens is let's say
the database, a thousand peopleand you send out a happy Halloween
video.
What's going to happen is you
might have one or two people thatrespond that say, Oh, well, thank
you for this.
Right.
And then you're thinking like,this was the best thing ever.
Right.
I got these two emails from these
people saying, thanks for thishappy Halloween video.
Right.
This is great.
Right.
And I hear this all the time.
(25:26):
I love that.
But then it's like, so I have 1000
people.
How many people open?
How many people engage?How many people unsubscribe?
you actually look Well, at thoseIt's numbers.
have a thousand like, oh, how manypeople people, how many people
open, how many people engage,unsubscribe?
you actually look Well, at thosenumbers.
It's like, oh, wow, this thingreally sucks.
You know, but I can see how likethere's that false, you know, kind
of flag.
I'm like, oh, two people.
So this is great.
Like, oh, this is working for me.
It's like, well, I mean, itdepends on your goals.
(25:46):
If, you know, a 0.2% engagementrate is your goal, then sure, it's
working for you.
But if your engagement, you know,
is higher than that, then like,yeah, it's just not right.
We got to think a little oh, thisis well and you know i mean who
wants to really be whatevercelebrated on holidays by a
business like the truth is likethey know your business and so by
doing that like it feels kind oflike not genuine like oh you're
(26:07):
just trying to touch me duringthese times so anyway you know it
is what it is like i'm not sayingdon't have that kind of stuff but
i'm just saying that that shouldnot be your only source because
mostly those are just gonna bethrown straight into the trash
right like if they don'tunsubscribe they're just gonna
throw it in the trash i mean igenerally don't open that kind of
(26:28):
content to be kind of yeah wellthink about like so how many do
you get right like that's a goodthing for the office to think
about like because i get all theemail from like my state farm
agent and everybody yeah happybirthday card from my doctor and
stuff like so how many do you getokay so it's the best question
right there's a lot of ways foryou stand out yeah i agree man and
that's huge so you know i kind ofwarned you before so i'm gonna put
you on the spot here but i don'tknow if you have any strategies
(26:49):
that you train your people on butwhat's like one strategy two
strategies like some ways thatloan officers can go out there get
some more business today i mean idon't know if it gets to
reactivations or again i don'twant to see it anything what is a
way that a loan officer can go outthere and gain some more business
in this market?Yeah.
So there's like the short termquick hitting things and then the
more long term things.
Okay.
Typically speaking, like havinggood processes and doing things
over time is how you're going tosucceed.
I know no one wants to hear that.
(27:10):
I certainly don't want to hear
that like all the time.
I don't love that.
Right.
But it just, just is true.
And so let's say, first andforemost, think about what are you
going to do this year?Are you going to implement a new
technology?Are you going to implement some
new processes?Again, if you're on that beginner
level, just starting to use tech,you're using Excel a year ago,
you're not going to be an expert.
That's fine.
Just make some small iterationsand continue to do better.
With that out of the way, what arelike the short-term ways to kind
of gain business?I think a lot of it has to do with
building the referral partners.
(27:30):
That is kind of the tried and true
way.
I think, again, trying to provide
value in any way that you can.
And I think trying to source
referral partners by creatingreally interesting content.
So a really good, well thought outmarket update that you're sending
out to them.
And even if it's cold, you're
buying a list of referralpartners, but you're still sending
something interesting that theymight want to read.
I think LinkedIn is a greatplatform to connect
professionally, again, to sharewho you are and what you're all
about.
And I think it's also looking in
(27:51):
your database today too, to justsee who's built equity in their
homes, just start calling thosepeople, right?
Someone did a loan with you Xamount of years or why not just
call those people?Because there's options there,
right?And there's a lot of people right
now that are in credit card debt.
There's a lot of people that, you
know, maybe something unfortunatehappened to them or, you know,
maybe they're thinking aboutdownsizing.
I mean, if you're really lookingfor something to do, just make
those calls and just see what youcan do to help, you know, and just
tell them, Hey, it's, I know it'stough times and people are
(28:11):
struggling economically andthere's a lot of programs and
options and I'm here to help inany way that I can.
So I don't think it's pick up thephone and, you know, tell people
that you're there to help andprovide value.
But I think a lot of the shinyobjects and you know, better than
me typically don't produce greatresults.
Like someone who's saying, here'sa big list of all these people
that want to refinance and it's athousand bucks.
It's like, if that was true, theywouldn't be selling it to you if
you make a million bucks of it.
So a lot of the shiny objects
(28:32):
aren't great.
So a Or they have to do the work,
right?Like here's the thing, like
there's no such thing as like,it's a thousand bucks for a big
list of people that can refinance.
They're probably gonna be super
cold, which means you're gonnahave to do a lot more work to
nurture them.
So I agree.
I mean, one tip that I'll give youthat maybe that will help you guys
is like one thing that we've beenrecently doing with clients, and
this is for cold leads, right?Because we help them get leads and
(28:57):
stuff like that.
But what we found was a lot of our
loan officers would have leadsthat would respond, they would
start the conversation, and thenthey would disappear.
And they would just sit in an incontact stage.
So we just sent out the simpletext that said something like,
Hey, this is john with whatevermortgage you reached out a while
back.
I just want to make sure you got
taken care of.
Are you still in the market to buy
a home?Something like that, right?
(29:17):
Something simple.
It wasn't quite those words, but
something like that.
Very simple.
We ran that test with 10 differentpeople.
And this is in the last two weekswith just like a small list of
past leads.
So these are cold leads.
These aren't even like actualreferrals and stuff.
I guess it would probably workeven better with referrals.
49 appointments got scheduled, 17applications, 10 pre-approvals and
two contracts in two weeks, right?From 10 clients that, you know,
(29:39):
maybe each of them had, you know,20, 30, 40, 50 people on those
lists.
Right.
And the other thing we did was wetold them to implement a zoom
strategy with those appointments.
So instead of it being like a
phone call, they implemented azoom and it just really seems to
be working really well too.
So those are some ways like
reactivations is a powerful way ifyou have a list of past clients if
(30:00):
you have a list of past leads thatyou haven't talked to in a while
like just a simple text like heyare you still in the market to buy
a home this is super easy and thenthere are some people that'll tell
you they bought a home which sucksbut that tells you that you know
there was opportunities there thatyou missed out on yeah they'll
respond to kick rocks okaywhatever it is what it is or
they'll respond yeah i'm still inthe market and there you you that,
there know, was opportunitiesthere that you missed out on.
(30:22):
They'll Yeah.
respond to kick rocks.
Okay, whatever.
It is what it is.
Or they'll respond.
Yeah, I'm still in the market.
And there you go.
Now you got some people that you
can talk to.
So I think that's a huge,
especially we've got a good CRMthat has good text capabilities.
You can do it via email, butyou're probably gonna get a much
better response.
You can call those people too,
right?You can know, I know a lot of
CRMs.
I don't know if you guys do, but
CRMs like where you can tell ifthey open the email, you can tell
(30:44):
if they, you know, got the textand stuff like that.
And then you can just call thosetype of people that's going to be
like your warmest type people soanyway it's worked it worked
really well I mean we've done thatin the past when rates dropped
with past clients as well so rightnow obviously rates haven't
dropped but if they do drop that'sa perfect opportunity to reach out
with text reach out with emailcall them right like you said so
anyway just some ideas that wefind yeah right it's working with
what you already have you alreadyhave people that raise their hand
we didn't give her to alreadypeople you've done business with
(31:05):
yeah like make those calls firstlike lead gen's tough and that's
like something like you spendyears on and you can do it but
like i mean yeah you're gonna goout there and do some ads and get
a lot of business like that'stough that's almost longer term
than most of them oh Oh oh Ohyeah, yeah, yeah.
We tell people with lead gen, likecold leads is typically 90 to 180
days where stuff really starts toturn, right?
So honestly working aged leads,like people that you, maybe you
(31:27):
bought leads six months ago, thosepeople were probably gonna be more
ready to buy now than they weresix months ago when they first
opted into whatever they weredoing.
Just because that's how thebuyer's journey works when it
comes to mortgage or real estate.
Like people don't understand that
the buyer's journey, we talk abouttop of funnel, the buyer's journey
starts a lot of times, somewherebetween six and 27 months, 24
months, whatever, before theyactually purchase.
People don't wake up in themorning and want to buy a $400,000
house and just say they're goingto.
(31:48):
They wake up, they get a cue, theysee Susie down the street, bought
a house.
They saw a Facebook post like,
man, Susie, how did you get thehouse?
Oh, you only need a 3% down.
I thought I needed 20% down.
Oh man, I can save up 15 grand.
Let's do this.
Okay, cool.
Now all of a sudden there's a six
month process.
They're looking on Zillow, they're
looking on realtor.com and nowthey're ready to buy, right?
And so what most loan officers andreal estate agents fail to
(32:08):
understand, I think real estateagents do typically a better job
of this because they're just usedto attracting the consumers.
So they usually know that theyhave to nurture them.
But loan officers a lot of timesget referrals that are ready to
buy right now.
So they're like, oh, it's a 90 day
cycle.
That's how people buy.
Well, no, that's how people buy.
100%.
Yeah.
Be that trusted advisor.
Let them know that there's a lotof interesting programs that are
there to help if they want to doanything.
There could be some reallycreative stuff with high rates.
There's a lot of leverage for loanofficer.
We don't really touch on our stufftoo.
I think that really helps theofficers as well.
I agree.
People who are coming to you, how
can I afford something?How can I do this?
(32:29):
Like, you know, I mean, that'swhere we're at right now.
So there's a lot of opportunitythere.
A hundred percent.
I agree with you.
the officers as well.
I agree.
funny.
We touched on what we had talked
about earlier is that most peopledon't need more leads.
They need to work the leadsbetter.
So really what we just talkedabout is calling the leads you
already have.
Most likely there's deals to be
had within the database that youalready have, whether it is past
clients or whether it be whateverleads or like as a loan officer,
like, you know, hit up your realestate agent and say, Hey, do you
got any leads that maybe youbought?
(32:49):
Or, you know, maybe you boughtsome Zillow leads.
Like if I call through them andsee if I can pull anything out of
them.
Absolutely.
Come on, man.
Yeah.
There's some new programs, youknow, whatever it is that you
have.
That's interesting.
Exactly.
Cool, man.
Any last parting words?I mean, thank you so much for your
time today.
Yeah, no, it's super great to be
on this.
I think you summed it up
perfectly.
There's a lot of action
(33:09):
opportunity to be done there.
And I think that again, investing
in, you know, technology and waysto streamline your process, there
really isn't a better time to doit.
I know like healing aren't asflush as they were in 2021, but
look, I mean, rates will come downeventually and there will be
opportunities and the people thatare going to, you know, really
crush it are going to be peoplethat made the investment and took
the time to build out theirprocesses now when it was a little
slower.
So I'd encourage people to see
(33:30):
that as an opportunity as well.
Yeah, I it sucks.
This does suck.
I'm not going to deny that the
last 24 months hasn't been hard,but yes, I do agree.
There is an opportunity foreverybody who makes it through.
I mean, if you're still in theindustry right now, I mean, this
is being recorded in what April of2024.
If you're still in the industry,then you are a trooper.
And, you know, putting thosesystems in place, getting yourself
ready for the inevitable boom thatwill come maybe 12 months, 18
(33:52):
months, I don't know.
Whenever it does come, whenever
rates do come down, there will bea boom.
So just be prepared.
That being said, Spencer, what is
the best way that people canconnect with you online, learn a
little bit more about ADM or justin general, learn more about what
you guys are Yeah, absolutely.
Best place to learn more about ADM
is to go to ThinkADM.
So just think an A-I-D-I-U-M.com.
You can definitely see what we'vegot going on online or schedule
demo to take a look at it.
(34:13):
People that want to connect or
follow me, best place is LinkedInand happy to connect.
And we love learning for ourcustomers.
We try not to have any ego inthis.
So if you see our platform or seethings and have feedback for us,
we're interested in that.
So the only way we can help one
officers is to hear from them asto what they need.
So Cool, man.
So you guys all heard that.
We'll put it in the show notes aswell.
Thinkadium.com.
Thank you so much today for your
time.
My big takeaways from today,
(34:34):
again, was leveraging technologyto help your journey.
But ultimately, it comes down toit's not just the only thing
that's going to convert, but it issomething that is important.
So implement technology, work yourexisting leads better.
I mean, I think we touched on thatmaybe three or four times, both
your past client database andpeople who maybe haven't engaged
people who started an application,but didn't complete it.
People who completed theapplication, but didn't submit
their documents.
Like those are all opportunities
in this market.
And yes, I know people are scared.
People are putting things off.
You never know.
(34:55):
You know, you never know what'sgoing to come out of that.
So thank you so much for your timetoday, Spencer.
And for anybody who is listeningand is looking for some help on
generating some more leads, maybeyou don't got enough leads.
Go to FlipTheStatusQuo.com.
Thank you so much for listening
and have a great day.
you for tuning into the Loans On
Demand podcast onLoansOnDemandpodcast.com.
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