April 15, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode of Local Leaders the Podcast, Jim Chapman sits down with volunteers of “The Louisiana Orphan Train Museum”. This non-profit museum located in Opelousas, Louisiana highlights the story of children placed on orphan trains from the mid-1800’s to early 1900’s with many transported right here in Louisiana.
It’s a deep dive into an often overlooked part of both Louisiana and American History.
You can learn more about the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum via the website below https://www.laorphantrainmuseum.com
Follow them on Facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/p/Louisiana-Orphan-Train-Museum-100044257255165/
It’s a deep dive into an often overlooked part of both Louisiana and American History.
You can learn more about the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum via the website below https://www.laorphantrainmuseum.com
Follow them on Facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/p/Louisiana-Orphan-Train-Museum-100044257255165/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to local leaders of the podcast.
And look, we do some things around here that cover
a wide variety of subjects. Today we have actually three
people here, one off camera that's going to be coming
on a little later on and tell her story. But
(00:20):
for now, I want these two folks across from me
to introduce themselves and tell me who they're with.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good morning, Thank you, Jim. And my name is Martha
Obert and I am with the Louisiana Orphan Traine Museum
and Opelousis and I am the board president of the museum.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Very good and you, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And my name is James Dogey and I'm also a
associated with the Luision Arpin Train Museum and Opolusis. I'm
a board member and you help you give tours and
so forth.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I love that. And with those last names, you can't
hide that you're from Opelousas. Some good old Cajun names
there for you, South Louisiana friend of mine. Today we're
going to talk about the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum and
I'll tell you what It's been around a little while,
(01:11):
but a lot of people may or may not be
familiar with it outside of your general areas. So our
goal today is to not only make you familiar with it,
but we want you to want to go visit that
place and get involved in this history. History is so
important in all aspects of life, and if you don't
(01:33):
discuss it, if you don't talk about it, if you
don't put it out there, it will disappear eventually over time.
So let's talk about what it is for somebody that's
never heard about this either one.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So you know, agreed that history. We all know Jim
gets lost at the kitchen table. It happens in our
own families, right. And we also are aware that a
lot of people do not know about our museum, or
they might have heard of it, but they don't really
know what it's even about. So we, by the way,
(02:11):
are only one of two Orphan Tray museums in America.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There's actually a national I believe there's a national.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
In Kansas in US. So another charm for Louisiana to
educate people in the local area and beyond of the history.
So this museum has celebrated its fifteenth year last year,
and it is the culmination of many many people, our predecessors,
(02:42):
you know, had the passion and the drive to get
this started through a years and years process of collecting history. Again,
if it's not collected, no one will ever know about it.
So what we do is we are dedicated to the
history of the orphan trains and we dedicate the museum
(03:05):
to the Louisiana Orphan train riders. So this history of
orphan trains dates back to the mid eighteen hundreds, and
you know, basically there was a huge overpopulation of people
in New York City. You can imagine way back then,
(03:25):
every day there were thousands of immigrants coming to America,
leaving their destitute lives that seeking for better opportunities. And
when you put thousands and thousands of people together who
don't have a lot of means to support themselves of
their children, then you have problems. So you have an
(03:46):
overpopulation of people nowhere to live, overpopulation of people, no jobs,
and you have a lot of diseases and epidemics, and sadly,
children were cone at the end of the lawn and
were of the most fra They just couldn't take care
of their children. Maybe the parents got sick and passed away.
It was just bad times. But it's our history and
(04:09):
so there were two faith based organizations that had visions
to help these children. So in the mid eighteen hundreds,
which would be eighteen fifty four to be exact, was
the first orphan train that went westward. You know, you've
got this overpopulation of people with very destitute socioeconomic things
(04:31):
going on in New York City, and a lot of
people were going westward on trains, and so Charles Lauren Brace,
who founded the Children's a Society in eighteen fifty three,
thought why not put the kids on trains westward. He
believed farming was good spiritually for children. Everybody worked on
the farm, even the parents' own children. But he did
(04:53):
think these children could be a hand to a family,
a help, so guarded sending children westward in eighteen fifty
four on orphan trains. They were typically given over by
townsfolk who wanted them, and they were given over as
indented servants. Our museum focuses on the New York Founding Orphanage.
(05:20):
It was actually founded in October of eighteen sixty nine
by a sister, Mary Irene Fitzgibbon, and she wanted to
do something to help all the homeless children in New
York city. Thousands of children were left at the New
York Foundling. My grandmother was one of them. I am
(05:43):
directly descended from a Louisiana orphan train rider, and I
knew my grandmother very well. I actually lived with her
for seven years in New Orleans. So here you have
this culmination of all these peace people in the Oppolusis
area and beyond the state who have an interest in
(06:06):
this or passion, and we here today want to get
the word out like we do every day. It's our mission,
part of our mission as a nonprofit and is that
we want to inform and educate the public of this historical,
untold history. It was very untold, it was stigmatized, and
(06:30):
we're there to honor this and inform the public, especially educators.
Our children are our future. You know, we believe in
educating you know, any age group of students, students. We
have a lot of students who come to our museum
and do projects. We help them. They usually win first
(06:53):
or second place. You know, it's not about winning, but
we all know it's a great subject. So this orphan
trains Sister Irene starts sending. She has thousands of orphans
in New York City at the New York Family, she
ends up incorporating her orphanage and build the New York
Founding Hospital in there. And so what she wanted to
(07:14):
do differently from mister Brace was used the Catholic Church
to place the children. So she would go on massive
correspondence with parish priests and bishops all across America and
would ax them to find parents for these children. So
when her children left, she knew who they were going
(07:36):
to and were they were accounted for, and they were
also visited. She was very well respected in New York City,
not just by the Catholic population, but very admired by
the Jewish population and other denominations. I mean, she was
saving lives, thousands of children. I'm just one of thousands
(07:59):
of people who have descended from these orphans, and with
us trying to get the information out there, excuse me,
we know that there are many many other people like me.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and a lot of people that probably don't even realize.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Absolutely they don't know because it was so stigmatized and
kept quiet. You can imagine. I know my grandmother was
not proud of being an orphan, you know, being left
at the New York Founding hospital at the age of
three weeks old by her mother, and the mother never
went back. So with this act of humanity, you know,
(08:39):
I exist today because someone took my grandmother in and
then she was sent on an orphan train to Terrbone
Parish to buy you black Louisiana. And from there she
migrated over to New Orleans, where she ended up meeting
her husband.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Wow. And you know, it's almost it was almost a
very archaic version of fault foster care, kind of like
an early a very early different, but foster care.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Absolutely, it was foster care. Yeah, and she was very visionary.
Sis Irene Fitzgiven. You know what had happened was she
actually had contracted asiatic cholera. She was a teacher in
New York City and she was actually in a koma
dying and she heard people planning her funeral and her
story is published, you can look it up. And she
(09:31):
had a vision of children. So she felt like God
was speaking to her and she promised God, if he
would let her live, she would dedicate the rest of
her life to children. So she survives. She joins the
Sisters of Charity of New York. It was a very
well respected Order of sisters at the time, and she
told her mother, superior mother Eily, what happened to her.
(09:53):
She said, I want to start an orphanage. Well, they
knew they needed to do something. It was bad situation
in New York City. So you know, that's how her
journey began.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Very interesting. And look, New York City very small, I
mean not a large you know, it ain't the size
of Texas. We've all seen a map, and so you've
got all this influx of children, and so it does
make sense what the goal was there. Mister James, I'm
gonna turn to you for a minute and what I
(10:28):
want to ask you. We talked a little bit off
camera and you told me an interesting story about you
having a family connection to the orphan trains as well.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
That's right, Jim.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And one thing I like to say is comments from
visitors to the Lesion Orp and Train Museum in Opolis
is one of the most common comments is you guys
are so so passionate. And the reason being is because
we have a vested interest. Most of us that that
kept tours and talk about the story have a relative
(11:02):
that was a New York carpet. In my case, it
was a little bit different. The vast majority they were
on the trains, they were by themselves. In my case,
the fast story goes that my grandparents heard Father John Ingbrink,
the local pastor at Saint Andree Catholic Church, gave his
sales pitch, and by the way, all these priests in
(11:24):
South Louisiana they.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Heard the call.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
They heard how sister was trying to place these youngsters,
and they agreed. And by the way they investigate, they
went up to New York, many of them, and they
were so impressed with the way things were being run
that they came back down and they talked to their
congregations and tried to recruit foster parents. Well, in my case,
(11:51):
my grandparents at the time had no children of their own.
And the family story is my grandfather and grandmother went home,
they started talking it over, and my grandmother warned a
little girl. My grandfather warned a little boy. You have
to understand, they were placed ahead of time. They were
pre ordered, so to speak. Sure, and they couldn't decide,
(12:12):
so said, well, let's take one of beach, all right.
And they weren't biologically related. They were only four months
apart and age, different last names, and so forth, and
then the rest of the story is about a year later,
my dad comes along and the rest of the siblings,
and so they ended up with seven of their own
(12:33):
and two of the orphans. Growing up as a young person,
I knew nothing about this. I didn't know the little
boy because unfortunately he was killed in a hunting accident
at the age of twelve. The girl which became my aunt,
I always knew something was different about her, you know,
she looked differently, she certainly had a different accent, and
(12:56):
so forth. I was married before I found out she
was Louise come down own the Arpent Trains, and since
then I've took a big interest in the story. As
a former educator, I taught several years of losing history
and so forth. We have a lot of kids who
come on field trips, and one thing we hear all
(13:18):
the time is that sometimes the foster parents would take
these kids because they wanted extra workers. There's a lot
of misconceptions about the movement, and we tell the kids
you have to you can't judge people over one hundred
years ago with today's eyes. The things that were done
at that time were completely different today completely what's going
(13:39):
to happen fifty years from now when people looking at
our society in the present. But anyway, I would tell
the kids, you know, they would treat just like their
own kids. They actually had to work, you know the
kids that they think, oh, they just went extra workers. No,
everyone worked in those days, right. There was no going
(13:59):
off into the bedroom when he so phone and so forth.
That's one of the big misconceptions. Another misconception is that
all these kids were adopted. The vast majority were not.
Once again, you have to understand the way things were
over one hundred years ago. They were placed with these
(14:22):
foster parents. They were checked on at least twice a year.
Some agents would come from New Orleans. Sometimes nuns would
check on them and so forth. And you better believe
that local priests they were keeping an eye out on
those kids. Because their reputation, they had to recommend the
foster parents. So but many cases the foster parents could not.
(14:45):
They had very little education. In my family's case, they
only had like third fourth great education. And if they
signed any kind of papers at all, in their mind
they were adopting. Of course, the expense of going to
get a lawyer and go into the court, everything involved
(15:06):
in my case. I know my grandparents. I'm certain they
loved the two orphans they took in and in their
mind they they had adopted them. But that caused problems
when those kids would become adults under Louisiana law in
most state laws as far as inheritance would come along.
So you did cause problems later on, but it wasn't
(15:29):
because they did not want to take these kids in.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, one thing, says Irene, I definitely want to make
this clear too. The last thing she wanted the children
to appear as was orphans and.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Even back then that even back then.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
So and what's really beautiful at the museum is we
have quite a bit of the original clothing the children
had on when they were hands over to the families.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And what's interesting too, Jim, is they all have the
original tags. Well some of them have the original tags
on them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
That's really cool.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It is really cool. And so you know, we're very
proud of that in the museum because the families haven't
trusted us. But they were given over as indentured servants
as well. They all had indenture papers and that was
how it was done at the time. Just like James said,
look at the time, and that's how things were done.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And let me ask you this quickly, you know at
some point and we'll fast forward a little bit here,
because this museum just celebrated fifteen years. Congratulations for that.
But that also tells me that prior to fifteen years ago,
there was no Louisiana Orphan Training Museum, at least in Louisiana.
(16:56):
You only have two throughout the country.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It was thorn on the FLOE's bed. Yes, the museum,
the Collection of history.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So how did that start? How did this come about?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So? Yes? So by the way, our historian of our
board is ninety seven years old. Oh wow, so interesting
to note though. It's very unique and I do believe
God always has his hand and everything. So flow In
hern her husband's father, so flow In her is Awa historian,
(17:30):
and her father in law came on the orphan train,
her husband's father. And the unique thing about flow In
her father in law is they actually formed a relationship
where he actually would talk about it with her, the
experience of being an orphan. That is not very common.
(17:52):
A lot of them were very hushed up about it
and never spoke about it. But he actually talked to
her over many many cups of coffee about it. So
that was a unique thing right there, that that relationship
formed in that manner. So he would talk about other
orphans that came to the area. Now, one thing, we
(18:14):
want all the listeners to know. They went all over
the state of Louisiana. They went all over, especially New Orleans.
But historically they did go top Lusis in nineteen oh seven,
three trains in the spring. So anyway, he would talk
about these other orphans. So she started collecting history. She
(18:36):
would get in touch with at that time some of
them were still alive and she would say, you know,
we're starting to collect history information, oral history, artifacts. We
want to have a vision of starting a museum. Years
and years went by with her doing all this and
the committee they formed a committee. So as you start
(18:59):
collect history, then you have something to show. So then,
with God's grace and all the efforts of multitudes of people,
the museum opened in two thousand and nine and we
were able to put up stuff, artifacts, photos, and collecting clothing.
(19:20):
Interesting thing about the clothing, not everyone has the clothing.
You can imagine it was tucked away. My grandmother hid
hers in a cedar chest in her shotgun home on
Opelousi's Avenue in Algia's Point, and so you know, they
were very tucked away in various shames. But some of
the families still have the clothing. So we're really proud
(19:42):
of our clothing in the museum. Everyone who comes to
the museum gets an oral guided tour. We're oral history.
We incorporated all because we know so many of the families.
So it started with a vision of a committee formed,
and then from that many just did They didn't give up.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, and they didn't give up. That's exactly what it
takes a lot of times for this type of thing.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I'd just like to mention too, Jim, that a lot
of visitors, especially to young people, they have that misconception
that the moms who gave these children up did not
want the child. Totally wrong, totally wrong. They were desperate,
They couldn't even take care of themselves, much less of
newborn and so forth, and they always wondered whatever happened
(20:34):
to that child that they gave up, did they survive,
did they make it.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And so forth.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And I'm quick to point out to the young people
who look at the pictures on the wall, guess what
the vast majority of those people would have not survived
if that mother had not given up the child for
a better life. Yeah, and in many cases life itself.
So we went to make that clear. Did they have abuses,
(21:00):
of course they did, of course they but they had
a lot of safeguards. They were constantly being checked own
by agents or nuns visiting the kids were in many
cases they were extremely afraid when an agent or a
nun would come to check on them, because many times
they were afraid, they would take the child back. And
(21:22):
in some cases I'll let Marpha maybe mention them one
story in particular about it that actually happened in more
than one occasion.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, it's very true. Which when I envision that these
children were visited, so this is after nineteen oh seven
the children are placed or in that era, sure, early
nineteen hundreds, the trains were in the later eighteen hundreds
as well. They have to come and visit the children.
(21:56):
They have to go physically out to where the farm
is or the the home, the business. They went to, farmers,
they went to they went all over and to check
on the child. And so you know, you can the
multitude of this.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Task, huge undertaking I mean, none of the conveniences you
have in today's life to do that. There was no internet, email.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You know, anyway. So but that's what's so dear to
the families is that they know that their orphan was
checked on and typically the indenture papers. And I did
want to mention this. The sisters usually typically would not
do the indenture paper immediately, and I never understood that
(22:46):
till as you go, was always researching it was in
the child's best interest that it wasn't signed immediately because
they wanted to make sure it was going to work
out with the fall to parents. Wow, I'm telling you
they were protecting the child. Yes, and I believe the
(23:07):
untold history part of it, and yes, the stigma, But
at the same time, I really believe in my heart
the sisters were trying to protect the child as much
as they could. And I think that's why there's just
not a lot of information out there.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I would agree, And you know, there's probably a lot
of people and I'll get into this in a couple
of minutes with our next guest that will be coming on,
Miss Angie. But in schools, you may be sitting there
thinking right now, I never read about this in a textbook.
I don't remember seeing anything about this, and chances are
(23:44):
you didn't, and that's because it's not taught in the schools.
And that's a very passionate fight that Miss Angie is
is fighting to try to get that into in fighting.
Maybe the wrong adjective there, but she's trying to get
this taught in the schools because it's important. It's a
(24:05):
part of history. It's no different than any other form
or part of history that the United States has been through,
and I'm a big proponent and believer that it should
be taught. Let's talk real quick. So in the museum,
you have artifacts, you have clothing, You even have a
beautiful mural in there, done by a pretty famous artist.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We do. We have a beautiful wall sized mural painted
by Robert Dafford and it is titled in Historical Moment
in Time, the Orphan Train arrives to Opelousis nineteen oh seven.
And it is beautiful. I see it thousands of times,
and you don't get tired of looking at it to
It's always pretty. I can imagine, and it starts getting
(24:50):
more three dimensional with me. I don't know if it's
my vision, but anyway, So yeah, we're real proud of
our mural. It shows, you know, depict the scene, the
heartfelt scene. That's how I want to describe it as
the children standing there alone, a lot of them with
(25:11):
the adults, you know, there with the sisters. And he
did represent the local past priests for the Johnning Gry
and so you know, and it's all oral history. So
typically what we do when they walk in is Okay,
first of all, how much time do you have? I'm glad.
I'm really grateful to James that he told me one day,
(25:33):
He's like, you got to ask them how much time
they have because we could talk for hours and they
might want fifteen minutes, they might want two hours.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Sure, we don't know. And Jim, it's amazing. Adults can
always learn from kids.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right Always kids are kids are going to be honest.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
They will point out they have their filters right right,
and they'll point out, okay, why do the kids in
the mural look like adults? And we were like, why
did he do that? And we think that the artists
wanted to depict the children and all the traumasol to speak,
(26:12):
that they had been through. You can only imagine being
loaded up on a train. Okay, in New York City,
you're going to a strange place. In many cases, you're
only four years old, three years old, five, maybe even younger.
And all you're told is we're bringing you to meet
you new mamas and papas. They have they've never seen countryside,
(26:34):
you know, they're used to concrete sidewalks, streets, buildings, and
so forth in New York, and all of a sudden,
you're in this strange place and you're getting down to
a place where everyone's speaking a different language, a whole
nother world. So we think maybe he wanted to depict
these kids had seen so much or been through so much.
(26:56):
He wanted to, you know, have that effect and so forth.
But speaking of the kids to one of the big
topic we touch on we have school children is about bullying.
Bullying is a current popular topic to go into. It's
also been around forever. It's been around forever, and we
(27:19):
we the human person is always one of the greatest
desires is to feel belong. Okay, I feel like you
belong with a group. And these kids were coming down
to a situation where they might as well have been
coming from another planet, you know, everybody's pointing at them
and talking about them and so forth. And they went
(27:42):
to school with with having all this being said about them,
and so they didn't feel like they belonged they were.
They were very shy, holding their stories inside. Only until
these kids became adults and time was was getting away
from them did they begin to open up, even to
(28:03):
their immediate families. All educators have had children, cases of
children in their class who didn't feel like they've blown
and so forth. So we try to talk to school kids, Hey,
you see that kid in the corner, you know, say
hello to it. Make them feel wanted and so forth.
We have a little display where we talk about the
(28:27):
two little second grade girls sitting side by side. Yes,
boys and girls, there was a time when two people
sat in the same desk, and it's recess time and
all the kids get up and run outside. Okay, Well,
Ms Cammi, who was the mother of our historian, it's
true story, happens to be sitting there with my aunt Christine,
(28:51):
and it's recess time, and Camis says, come on, let's
go out and play with the rest of the kids.
And Christine says, no, I don't want to, and say,
why don't you want to go out and play? So
I hate to go outside at recess. The kids pick
on me, and she started saying that they call her
all kind of ugly names because she was different, and
she knew she was different because adults would talk at
(29:13):
home about the orphans and the kids don't know how
to keep themselves quiet. They bring all that to school
and we'd pick on the kids. Anyway, as the story goes,
Christine put her head down and she started crying. She said,
I have no friends.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And at that.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Point this Caamy puts her arm around Christine and says,
I'm going to be your friend. And she was friends
whatever for the rest of her life. So we try
to teach the kids, you see someone different in the
classroom or whatever, be your friend to that person. So
(29:51):
there's a lot of lessons that can be learned from
from this story.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
And that's.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Very relatable.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, it really is. And you know, I would obviously
encourage one thing from all the listeners out here, and
that is make sure you share this. Sharing is very
important with what we do. The more people that have
access to see this on if you see a link
on Facebook, share that on your on your newsfeed, because
(30:22):
it's what it's all about, as many people as possible
knowing not only did this exists, but a little bit
of the story behind it. You're open Tuesday through Friday, correct,
and then Saturday by appointment.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
We do like when we encourage if you're listening and
watching us to call ahead. We just want to make
sure we can best accommodate you because we do have groups.
We have groups scheduled, but you know, you can call
the museum at three three seven non four eight two,
(31:00):
and we have an email which is La Orphan train
In two thousand and nine at gmail dot com. But yep,
call us up. We'd love for y'all to come and
learn about this untold history, very unique history. It's only
one of two Orphan Trae Museums in America. It's right
here in Louisiana. I'm so proud of that shit. Yes,
and so you know it's a gym.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
And I like to say too that when I was
teaching school, kids have that desire to learn about their
local histories. You know, we're real good about teaching about
American history and world history, but there's so many stories
out there that you'd be amazed the interest when when
you're talking about someone you mentioned last names. Hey, I
(31:44):
might re relate to that person and their ears picked
per cup, and they have that desire to learn about
They love to hear about their own families, and that's
one thing we try.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
To do well.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You're at the gym. We're in a circa nineteen hundred.
It's one of the last Union Pacific Freight depot buildings
left in the state of Louisiana, and it's beautiful. So
uh you know. The interesting thing about that is typically
those buildings are bulldozed. They're not ever saved and restored.
(32:18):
I was was restored, thank god. So uh, you know,
we have a beautiful building that the museum's in.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I love that, and y'all are doing some phenomenal work.
I want I want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yes, so, And it's just been a pleasure to be
able to come and speak of this. And I hope
whoever's out there, if you think you know, or you
might even be descended from an orphan train rider, or
you might have heard your grandparents or your even your
parents talk about this. I'm a second generation. I'm a
granddaughter of one you know, if there's anybody listening to this,
(32:55):
y'all need to call this because you never know, you
could be descended from very well could be.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
And the great thing too, Jim, is we've gone from
where the original orphans kept everything inside, you know, they
felt in some cases ashamed and so forth, to now
where we have an activity. We call it a gathering.
It's like a little reunion in October. And the grandchildren
or the children who are up in age now also
(33:25):
they love to put a little ribbons on that says
they were descending.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Up a newer carpet.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah, we've come a long ways in the last several years.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And I'm gonna link tons of links in the description
of video, folks, So if you're driving you're listening to this,
or hopefully you're not driving it and watching it listening
to it. When you get somewhere where you want to
click on that link, you don't have to write anything down.
I'm gonna have everything for you in the description. You
(33:56):
can go right to the website, learn more about it,
and check those folks out, follow them on Facebook, and
please share this podcast. And now we're gonna get miss
Angie up and look, I got a great story for
you with miss Angie when she gets up here. So
we're gonna swap off real quick. Don't go anywhere, all right.
So now we're here with miss Angie Cornet. How did
(34:20):
you get involved in something from Opelousas and so amazing,
pat very passionate about it. And look, y'all we have
been planning this. We had storms come through. We have
one prior playing prior to this, back when storms came
through and then life came through and it was just
sinking back up was difficult. But I credit miss Aerjie
(34:43):
because she she did what you have to do with
Jim Chapman sometimes and that stay on him, you know,
you get somebody irons and those fires and and so
I appreciate you doing that, and I want to talk
to you about your passion for this.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, first, ipreciate you. Thank you so very much for
doing this. I first heard about the Orphan Train about
a little over a year ago. It was actually March fifth,
twenty twenty four, at a Livingston Parish Retired Teachers Association meeting.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
They had a.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Presentation of the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum and Martha and
James were there and they spoke, and as I listened
to them do their presentation, it was about an hour,
and I thumbed through or perused through the materials that
they had there. I was fascinated by very familiar Louisiana
(35:40):
surnames that hit close to home. Riley, Harris, LeBlanc, Breu, brown, Ardowine, etc.
And I couldn't help but think. It really peaked my fascination.
I couldn't help but think, who am I am? I
a descendant of an orphan train writer? And I scanned
(36:01):
across the room at the participants at the meeting attendees
and wondered. Collectively, I looked at them, but individually I thought,
who are you? After the meeting, when several people were leaving,
a few of us were talking and a man, a
retired educator with a history degree at angie, have you
(36:24):
heard of the Louisiana orphan train?
Speaker 4 (36:27):
He said, I have not.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Why is it not in the history textbooks? I have
a degree in history. Why is it not there? So
my response was, well, I don't know, let's find out.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, and you became a mission for you in some ways.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Right Over the next year, there was lots of visits
and phone calls and emails and research, and I got
to visit the museum, which I would encourage anyone to
go to Louisiana Orphan Train Museum in Ippolusi's Louisiana. Martha
did the tour, and I had an odd feeling when
(37:04):
I was there, And honestly, I have not stopped.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I have very busy life.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
I have not stopped yet to look up my personal
history because this has I guess that's on the back
burner right now as this is in the forefront. Sure,
But as I toured the museum and went through Martha's presentation,
I don't know. I told Martha, maybe I don't have
a connection. Maybe I'm not a descendant of an orphan
(37:31):
train writer, but maybe as an educator or retired teacher
from Livingston Parish, maybe it's just the unheard.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
It's the voices of the children.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Over a quarter million orphans came into the American West
over a seventy five year time period. That's two hundred
and fifty thousand children.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Who were placed. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
Yes, And so if someone's listening and you don't know
your family history, give the museum a call and.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
They'll help you. They'll help you do some research.
Speaker 5 (38:03):
I think they said that they have done they have Facebook,
lived or different different methods of getting with people and
trying to communicate with them and to discover their history.
But anyway, I spoke to the assistant superintendent of the
Leuingston Parish School System. He had his curriculum department to
(38:24):
look in the K eight Social Studies curriculum has no
mention of the Orphan Train, no mention so as you
peruse through the Louisiana Content Standards, though, there are standards
there that exist where the Orphan Train lesson could be
aligned with the standards, and that is kind of my plea.
(38:48):
That is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping that history Majors,
Louisiana educators, anyone who's willing to put together some plans
that all with the Louisiana standards and share it to
the website that Mss Martha gave earlier at the museum,
if they would share it to that, and then we
(39:10):
could get this into the hands of the Louisiana educators
and ask them if they would include this in their
curriculum as long as they're teaching the standards and the
standards are aligne the curriculums a line with the standards,
we could start introducing this integral part of our history.
To me, it's part of the fabric of Louisiana, but
(39:33):
it's not yet been woven in.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
And if we tarry.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Too long, a great way to put that, If.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
We tarry too long, it may be forgotten history. I'd
like to see one an increase increased awareness on the topic,
and kudos to you because this expands the audience to
increase that, to change that awareness. But I'd like to
see it in the hands of Louisiana educators. But we
(40:00):
have to go beyond that because this generation of educators,
if it's.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Not passed on.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
So I'd like to see the Louisiana Department of Education
add this as a possible topic to teach next to
the standard. And whether you're comparing and contrasting, looking at
the causes and effects of immigration to the United States
at that time, it can fit. I'm sure even in
(40:28):
a third grade curriculum. I'm sure there's a lot of places,
whether they're writing, comparing, contrasting, looking at calls and effect,
looking at primary and secondary resources, all of these things
we can incorporate the Louisiana Orphan Train and align them
with the standards. I would like to say that the
(40:49):
Country Roads magazine I visited with them, that was one
of my stops, and they had done an article May
twenty twenty three and they called it one of the
largest yet least understood migrations in human history.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
I think that's a you can't sum it up any better, really,
I very well put.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
I know you mentioned it earlier, earlier, but I feel
like although the beginning of the seventy five year period
was sort of rudimentary, so.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
To speak, I think that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It was a.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Seventy five year humanitarian effort. It was an early form
of child welfare, if you will. But as all initiatives are,
they start one way and they approve improve.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Along the way.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
And perhaps I don't know if the story got lost there,
but we want to spread that awareness and we want
to make a change. So it starts with each of
you out there, if you're listening, if you're an educator,
and you would like to all work with you, or
you can work alone, or you can put together a group,
put together a lessoner unit that aligne with Louisiana content
(42:01):
standards and that teaches and brings awareness to Louisiana Orphan
Train movement. Please send it to the Orphan Train newsm
website that well, I'm sure Jim will have available. Martha
mentioned earlier. If we could get this into the hands
of all Louisiana educators, that is one that is a
great start.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
And then if you have.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
Any anyone that you can talk to with the Louisiana
Department of Education, any of the curriculum specialists, and we
can try to get this topic listed next to the
standards to be taught, that would be a great avenue
to go as well. But I did speak to doctor
sam Hyde, you do, I did. I also talked to
(42:46):
I talked to him and he actually put me in
touch with Michael Martin Center for Louisiana Studies at ULL
and he runs a journal for Louisiana History and anyway,
he in turn me in touch with the writer of
Louisiana Our History or Home, which was done by Alicia Long.
So it just snowballed in one contact. One contact led
(43:10):
to another and Louisiana Department of Education contacts.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I spoke to.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
The writer of the bay Ubridge's curriculum that's currently being
used in Louisiana in our middle school social studies and
in addition to that, the Claremont Press and Katie Stark
is an education specialist at LPB, was very impressed after
speaking with her. She said that she wanted to create
(43:38):
a landing page where all documentaries and resources on the
Orphan train.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Lesson plans could be tied.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
To those documentaries and resources as well, but she said
she's the only person in this particular department. She has
other things lined up now and that will be in
the future. It might take quite a while to get there,
but so a lot of buzz has been created and
we'd like to ask everyone to let's not let these
(44:07):
unheard voices of a quarter million million children to go unheard.
We'd like to ask you to hop on board this train,
so to speak, and be a part of a movement
to weave these voices in this history into the fabric
of Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
How important is this do you?
Speaker 5 (44:28):
I think as an educator, Again, I haven't done the
research yet to look back at my family history, all
the familiar names.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
I'd like to really go do a deep dive into that.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
But I think just being an educator and the compassion
for children, and just the thought of a quarter million
children scared and lonely put on a train, brought to
a new place with a new home and new family,
new people, new schoolmates. It just tug at my heart. Yeah,
(45:04):
and again maybe it's just their voice is tugging at
my shirt, saying, hey, be a voice for me.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
Be a voice.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
And you sure have been. Why I do what I
do a lot of times is because of the passion
that people that come out when people talk about things
that are very important to them. You got no skin
in this game, per se. I mean, you could have
went on living life and this wouldn't have been something.
This is work. This is work for these people that
(45:36):
volunteer for the Orphan Train Museum. This is work for you,
and so you're very selfless to do it, and the
passion just comes out when you talk about it. It
means something to you. I love that I can tell
you I will do everything I can possibly do to
(45:58):
help get the word out. That's what I do, That's
what I'm good at. But thank you so much for
stepping outside yourself and just doing something just because you
feel like it's important. And it speaks to you. I
think that's awesome.
Speaker 5 (46:12):
Well, thank you for jumping on this train with us.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
You got it, you got it. I want to thank
our other guest as well for joining us today, Miss
Martha and mister Jim, and I am going to link
again everything to the description of this episode that you
will need to get started to go check out that museum.
Let's tell as many people as possible about this. Strength
(46:39):
comes in numbers. The more people you have that want
to learn more about this, the better success that you're
likely to see. I want to thank all of you
for listening, supporting, sharing the podcast in general. There is
no meed without all of you, and I appreciate that
so very much. And until next time, I want to
(47:01):
remind you to love your community, support local business, and
keep leading. Thank you very much.
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to local leaders of the podcast.
And look, we do some things around here that cover
a wide variety of subjects. Today we have actually three
people here, one off camera that's going to be coming
on a little later on and tell her story. But
(00:20):
for now, I want these two folks across from me
to introduce themselves and tell me who they're with.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good morning, Thank you, Jim. And my name is Martha
Obert and I am with the Louisiana Orphan Traine Museum
and Opelousis and I am the board president of the museum.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Very good and you, sir.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
And my name is James Dogey and I'm also a
associated with the Luision Arpin Train Museum and Opolusis. I'm
a board member and you help you give tours and
so forth.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I love that. And with those last names, you can't
hide that you're from Opelousas. Some good old Cajun names
there for you, South Louisiana friend of mine. Today we're
going to talk about the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum and
I'll tell you what It's been around a little while,
(01:11):
but a lot of people may or may not be
familiar with it outside of your general areas. So our
goal today is to not only make you familiar with it,
but we want you to want to go visit that
place and get involved in this history. History is so
important in all aspects of life, and if you don't
(01:33):
discuss it, if you don't talk about it, if you
don't put it out there, it will disappear eventually over time.
So let's talk about what it is for somebody that's
never heard about this either one.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So you know, agreed that history. We all know Jim
gets lost at the kitchen table. It happens in our
own families, right. And we also are aware that a
lot of people do not know about our museum, or
they might have heard of it, but they don't really
know what it's even about. So we, by the way,
(02:11):
are only one of two Orphan Tray museums in America.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
There's actually a national I believe there's a national.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
In Kansas in US. So another charm for Louisiana to
educate people in the local area and beyond of the history.
So this museum has celebrated its fifteenth year last year,
and it is the culmination of many many people, our predecessors,
(02:42):
you know, had the passion and the drive to get
this started through a years and years process of collecting history. Again,
if it's not collected, no one will ever know about it.
So what we do is we are dedicated to the
history of the orphan trains and we dedicate the museum
(03:05):
to the Louisiana Orphan train riders. So this history of
orphan trains dates back to the mid eighteen hundreds, and
you know, basically there was a huge overpopulation of people
in New York City. You can imagine way back then,
(03:25):
every day there were thousands of immigrants coming to America,
leaving their destitute lives that seeking for better opportunities. And
when you put thousands and thousands of people together who
don't have a lot of means to support themselves of
their children, then you have problems. So you have an
(03:46):
overpopulation of people nowhere to live, overpopulation of people, no jobs,
and you have a lot of diseases and epidemics, and sadly,
children were cone at the end of the lawn and
were of the most fra They just couldn't take care
of their children. Maybe the parents got sick and passed away.
It was just bad times. But it's our history and
(04:09):
so there were two faith based organizations that had visions
to help these children. So in the mid eighteen hundreds,
which would be eighteen fifty four to be exact, was
the first orphan train that went westward. You know, you've
got this overpopulation of people with very destitute socioeconomic things
(04:31):
going on in New York City, and a lot of
people were going westward on trains, and so Charles Lauren Brace,
who founded the Children's a Society in eighteen fifty three,
thought why not put the kids on trains westward. He
believed farming was good spiritually for children. Everybody worked on
the farm, even the parents' own children. But he did
(04:53):
think these children could be a hand to a family,
a help, so guarded sending children westward in eighteen fifty
four on orphan trains. They were typically given over by
townsfolk who wanted them, and they were given over as
indented servants. Our museum focuses on the New York Founding Orphanage.
(05:20):
It was actually founded in October of eighteen sixty nine
by a sister, Mary Irene Fitzgibbon, and she wanted to
do something to help all the homeless children in New
York city. Thousands of children were left at the New
York Foundling. My grandmother was one of them. I am
(05:43):
directly descended from a Louisiana orphan train rider, and I
knew my grandmother very well. I actually lived with her
for seven years in New Orleans. So here you have
this culmination of all these peace people in the Oppolusis
area and beyond the state who have an interest in
(06:06):
this or passion, and we here today want to get
the word out like we do every day. It's our mission,
part of our mission as a nonprofit and is that
we want to inform and educate the public of this historical,
untold history. It was very untold, it was stigmatized, and
(06:30):
we're there to honor this and inform the public, especially educators.
Our children are our future. You know, we believe in
educating you know, any age group of students, students. We
have a lot of students who come to our museum
and do projects. We help them. They usually win first
(06:53):
or second place. You know, it's not about winning, but
we all know it's a great subject. So this orphan
trains Sister Irene starts sending. She has thousands of orphans
in New York City at the New York Family, she
ends up incorporating her orphanage and build the New York
Founding Hospital in there. And so what she wanted to
(07:14):
do differently from mister Brace was used the Catholic Church
to place the children. So she would go on massive
correspondence with parish priests and bishops all across America and
would ax them to find parents for these children. So
when her children left, she knew who they were going
(07:36):
to and were they were accounted for, and they were
also visited. She was very well respected in New York City,
not just by the Catholic population, but very admired by
the Jewish population and other denominations. I mean, she was
saving lives, thousands of children. I'm just one of thousands
(07:59):
of people who have descended from these orphans, and with
us trying to get the information out there, excuse me,
we know that there are many many other people like me.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and a lot of people that probably don't even realize.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Absolutely they don't know because it was so stigmatized and
kept quiet. You can imagine. I know my grandmother was
not proud of being an orphan, you know, being left
at the New York Founding hospital at the age of
three weeks old by her mother, and the mother never
went back. So with this act of humanity, you know,
(08:39):
I exist today because someone took my grandmother in and
then she was sent on an orphan train to Terrbone
Parish to buy you black Louisiana. And from there she
migrated over to New Orleans, where she ended up meeting
her husband.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Wow. And you know, it's almost it was almost a
very archaic version of fault foster care, kind of like
an early a very early different, but foster care.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Absolutely, it was foster care. Yeah, and she was very visionary.
Sis Irene Fitzgiven. You know what had happened was she
actually had contracted asiatic cholera. She was a teacher in
New York City and she was actually in a koma
dying and she heard people planning her funeral and her
story is published, you can look it up. And she
(09:31):
had a vision of children. So she felt like God
was speaking to her and she promised God, if he
would let her live, she would dedicate the rest of
her life to children. So she survives. She joins the
Sisters of Charity of New York. It was a very
well respected Order of sisters at the time, and she
told her mother, superior mother Eily, what happened to her.
(09:53):
She said, I want to start an orphanage. Well, they
knew they needed to do something. It was bad situation
in New York City. So you know, that's how her
journey began.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Very interesting. And look, New York City very small, I
mean not a large you know, it ain't the size
of Texas. We've all seen a map, and so you've
got all this influx of children, and so it does
make sense what the goal was there. Mister James, I'm
gonna turn to you for a minute and what I
(10:28):
want to ask you. We talked a little bit off
camera and you told me an interesting story about you
having a family connection to the orphan trains as well.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
That's right, Jim.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And one thing I like to say is comments from
visitors to the Lesion Orp and Train Museum in Opolis
is one of the most common comments is you guys
are so so passionate. And the reason being is because
we have a vested interest. Most of us that that
kept tours and talk about the story have a relative
(11:02):
that was a New York carpet. In my case, it
was a little bit different. The vast majority they were
on the trains, they were by themselves. In my case,
the fast story goes that my grandparents heard Father John Ingbrink,
the local pastor at Saint Andree Catholic Church, gave his
sales pitch, and by the way, all these priests in
(11:24):
South Louisiana they.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Heard the call.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
They heard how sister was trying to place these youngsters,
and they agreed. And by the way they investigate, they
went up to New York, many of them, and they
were so impressed with the way things were being run
that they came back down and they talked to their
congregations and tried to recruit foster parents. Well, in my case,
(11:51):
my grandparents at the time had no children of their own.
And the family story is my grandfather and grandmother went home,
they started talking it over, and my grandmother warned a
little girl. My grandfather warned a little boy. You have
to understand, they were placed ahead of time. They were
pre ordered, so to speak. Sure, and they couldn't decide,
(12:12):
so said, well, let's take one of beach, all right.
And they weren't biologically related. They were only four months
apart and age, different last names, and so forth, and
then the rest of the story is about a year later,
my dad comes along and the rest of the siblings,
and so they ended up with seven of their own
(12:33):
and two of the orphans. Growing up as a young person,
I knew nothing about this. I didn't know the little
boy because unfortunately he was killed in a hunting accident
at the age of twelve. The girl which became my aunt,
I always knew something was different about her, you know,
she looked differently, she certainly had a different accent, and
(12:56):
so forth. I was married before I found out she
was Louise come down own the Arpent Trains, and since
then I've took a big interest in the story. As
a former educator, I taught several years of losing history
and so forth. We have a lot of kids who
come on field trips, and one thing we hear all
(13:18):
the time is that sometimes the foster parents would take
these kids because they wanted extra workers. There's a lot
of misconceptions about the movement, and we tell the kids
you have to you can't judge people over one hundred
years ago with today's eyes. The things that were done
at that time were completely different today completely what's going
(13:39):
to happen fifty years from now when people looking at
our society in the present. But anyway, I would tell
the kids, you know, they would treat just like their
own kids. They actually had to work, you know the
kids that they think, oh, they just went extra workers. No,
everyone worked in those days, right. There was no going
(13:59):
off into the bedroom when he so phone and so forth.
That's one of the big misconceptions. Another misconception is that
all these kids were adopted. The vast majority were not.
Once again, you have to understand the way things were
over one hundred years ago. They were placed with these
(14:22):
foster parents. They were checked on at least twice a year.
Some agents would come from New Orleans. Sometimes nuns would
check on them and so forth. And you better believe
that local priests they were keeping an eye out on
those kids. Because their reputation, they had to recommend the
foster parents. So but many cases the foster parents could not.
(14:45):
They had very little education. In my family's case, they
only had like third fourth great education. And if they
signed any kind of papers at all, in their mind
they were adopting. Of course, the expense of going to
get a lawyer and go into the court, everything involved
(15:06):
in my case. I know my grandparents. I'm certain they
loved the two orphans they took in and in their
mind they they had adopted them. But that caused problems
when those kids would become adults under Louisiana law in
most state laws as far as inheritance would come along.
So you did cause problems later on, but it wasn't
(15:29):
because they did not want to take these kids in.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Well, one thing, says Irene, I definitely want to make
this clear too. The last thing she wanted the children
to appear as was orphans and.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Even back then that even back then.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
So and what's really beautiful at the museum is we
have quite a bit of the original clothing the children
had on when they were hands over to the families.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And what's interesting too, Jim, is they all have the
original tags. Well some of them have the original tags
on them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
That's really cool.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It is really cool. And so you know, we're very
proud of that in the museum because the families haven't
trusted us. But they were given over as indentured servants
as well. They all had indenture papers and that was
how it was done at the time. Just like James said,
look at the time, and that's how things were done.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And let me ask you this quickly, you know at
some point and we'll fast forward a little bit here,
because this museum just celebrated fifteen years. Congratulations for that.
But that also tells me that prior to fifteen years ago,
there was no Louisiana Orphan Training Museum, at least in Louisiana.
(16:56):
You only have two throughout the country.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It was thorn on the FLOE's bed. Yes, the museum,
the Collection of history.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So how did that start? How did this come about?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So? Yes? So by the way, our historian of our
board is ninety seven years old. Oh wow, so interesting
to note though. It's very unique and I do believe
God always has his hand and everything. So flow In
hern her husband's father, so flow In her is Awa historian,
(17:30):
and her father in law came on the orphan train,
her husband's father. And the unique thing about flow In
her father in law is they actually formed a relationship
where he actually would talk about it with her, the
experience of being an orphan. That is not very common.
(17:52):
A lot of them were very hushed up about it
and never spoke about it. But he actually talked to
her over many many cups of coffee about it. So
that was a unique thing right there, that that relationship
formed in that manner. So he would talk about other
orphans that came to the area. Now, one thing, we
(18:14):
want all the listeners to know. They went all over
the state of Louisiana. They went all over, especially New Orleans.
But historically they did go top Lusis in nineteen oh seven,
three trains in the spring. So anyway, he would talk
about these other orphans. So she started collecting history. She
(18:36):
would get in touch with at that time some of
them were still alive and she would say, you know,
we're starting to collect history information, oral history, artifacts. We
want to have a vision of starting a museum. Years
and years went by with her doing all this and
the committee they formed a committee. So as you start
(18:59):
collect history, then you have something to show. So then,
with God's grace and all the efforts of multitudes of people,
the museum opened in two thousand and nine and we
were able to put up stuff, artifacts, photos, and collecting clothing.
(19:20):
Interesting thing about the clothing, not everyone has the clothing.
You can imagine it was tucked away. My grandmother hid
hers in a cedar chest in her shotgun home on
Opelousi's Avenue in Algia's Point, and so you know, they
were very tucked away in various shames. But some of
the families still have the clothing. So we're really proud
(19:42):
of our clothing in the museum. Everyone who comes to
the museum gets an oral guided tour. We're oral history.
We incorporated all because we know so many of the families.
So it started with a vision of a committee formed,
and then from that many just did They didn't give up.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, and they didn't give up. That's exactly what it
takes a lot of times for this type of thing.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I'd just like to mention too, Jim, that a lot
of visitors, especially to young people, they have that misconception
that the moms who gave these children up did not
want the child. Totally wrong, totally wrong. They were desperate,
They couldn't even take care of themselves, much less of
newborn and so forth, and they always wondered whatever happened
(20:34):
to that child that they gave up, did they survive,
did they make it.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And so forth.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And I'm quick to point out to the young people
who look at the pictures on the wall, guess what
the vast majority of those people would have not survived
if that mother had not given up the child for
a better life. Yeah, and in many cases life itself.
So we went to make that clear. Did they have abuses,
(21:00):
of course they did, of course they but they had
a lot of safeguards. They were constantly being checked own
by agents or nuns visiting the kids were in many
cases they were extremely afraid when an agent or a
nun would come to check on them, because many times
they were afraid, they would take the child back. And
(21:22):
in some cases I'll let Marpha maybe mention them one
story in particular about it that actually happened in more
than one occasion.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yes, it's very true. Which when I envision that these
children were visited, so this is after nineteen oh seven
the children are placed or in that era, sure, early
nineteen hundreds, the trains were in the later eighteen hundreds
as well. They have to come and visit the children.
(21:56):
They have to go physically out to where the farm
is or the the home, the business. They went to, farmers,
they went to they went all over and to check
on the child. And so you know, you can the
multitude of this.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Task, huge undertaking I mean, none of the conveniences you
have in today's life to do that. There was no internet, email.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You know, anyway. So but that's what's so dear to
the families is that they know that their orphan was
checked on and typically the indenture papers. And I did
want to mention this. The sisters usually typically would not
do the indenture paper immediately, and I never understood that
(22:46):
till as you go, was always researching it was in
the child's best interest that it wasn't signed immediately because
they wanted to make sure it was going to work
out with the fall to parents. Wow, I'm telling you
they were protecting the child. Yes, and I believe the
(23:07):
untold history part of it, and yes, the stigma, But
at the same time, I really believe in my heart
the sisters were trying to protect the child as much
as they could. And I think that's why there's just
not a lot of information out there.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
I would agree, And you know, there's probably a lot
of people and I'll get into this in a couple
of minutes with our next guest that will be coming on,
Miss Angie. But in schools, you may be sitting there
thinking right now, I never read about this in a textbook.
I don't remember seeing anything about this, and chances are
(23:44):
you didn't, and that's because it's not taught in the schools.
And that's a very passionate fight that Miss Angie is
is fighting to try to get that into in fighting.
Maybe the wrong adjective there, but she's trying to get
this taught in the schools because it's important. It's a
(24:05):
part of history. It's no different than any other form
or part of history that the United States has been through,
and I'm a big proponent and believer that it should
be taught. Let's talk real quick. So in the museum,
you have artifacts, you have clothing, You even have a
beautiful mural in there, done by a pretty famous artist.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We do. We have a beautiful wall sized mural painted
by Robert Dafford and it is titled in Historical Moment
in Time, the Orphan Train arrives to Opelousis nineteen oh seven.
And it is beautiful. I see it thousands of times,
and you don't get tired of looking at it to
It's always pretty. I can imagine, and it starts getting
(24:50):
more three dimensional with me. I don't know if it's
my vision, but anyway, So yeah, we're real proud of
our mural. It shows, you know, depict the scene, the
heartfelt scene. That's how I want to describe it as
the children standing there alone, a lot of them with
(25:11):
the adults, you know, there with the sisters. And he
did represent the local past priests for the Johnning Gry
and so you know, and it's all oral history. So
typically what we do when they walk in is Okay,
first of all, how much time do you have? I'm glad.
I'm really grateful to James that he told me one day,
(25:33):
He's like, you got to ask them how much time
they have because we could talk for hours and they
might want fifteen minutes, they might want two hours.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Sure, we don't know. And Jim, it's amazing. Adults can
always learn from kids.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right Always kids are kids are going to be honest.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
They will point out they have their filters right right,
and they'll point out, okay, why do the kids in
the mural look like adults? And we were like, why
did he do that? And we think that the artists
wanted to depict the children and all the traumasol to speak,
(26:12):
that they had been through. You can only imagine being
loaded up on a train. Okay, in New York City,
you're going to a strange place. In many cases, you're
only four years old, three years old, five, maybe even younger.
And all you're told is we're bringing you to meet
you new mamas and papas. They have they've never seen countryside,
(26:34):
you know, they're used to concrete sidewalks, streets, buildings, and
so forth in New York, and all of a sudden,
you're in this strange place and you're getting down to
a place where everyone's speaking a different language, a whole
nother world. So we think maybe he wanted to depict
these kids had seen so much or been through so much.
(26:56):
He wanted to, you know, have that effect and so forth.
But speaking of the kids to one of the big
topic we touch on we have school children is about bullying.
Bullying is a current popular topic to go into. It's
also been around forever. It's been around forever, and we
(27:19):
we the human person is always one of the greatest
desires is to feel belong. Okay, I feel like you
belong with a group. And these kids were coming down
to a situation where they might as well have been
coming from another planet, you know, everybody's pointing at them
and talking about them and so forth. And they went
(27:42):
to school with with having all this being said about them,
and so they didn't feel like they belonged they were.
They were very shy, holding their stories inside. Only until
these kids became adults and time was was getting away
from them did they begin to open up, even to
(28:03):
their immediate families. All educators have had children, cases of
children in their class who didn't feel like they've blown
and so forth. So we try to talk to school kids, Hey,
you see that kid in the corner, you know, say
hello to it. Make them feel wanted and so forth.
We have a little display where we talk about the
(28:27):
two little second grade girls sitting side by side. Yes,
boys and girls, there was a time when two people
sat in the same desk, and it's recess time and
all the kids get up and run outside. Okay, Well,
Ms Cammi, who was the mother of our historian, it's
true story, happens to be sitting there with my aunt Christine,
(28:51):
and it's recess time, and Camis says, come on, let's
go out and play with the rest of the kids.
And Christine says, no, I don't want to, and say,
why don't you want to go out and play? So
I hate to go outside at recess. The kids pick
on me, and she started saying that they call her
all kind of ugly names because she was different, and
she knew she was different because adults would talk at
(29:13):
home about the orphans and the kids don't know how
to keep themselves quiet. They bring all that to school
and we'd pick on the kids. Anyway, as the story goes,
Christine put her head down and she started crying. She said,
I have no friends.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
And at that.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Point this Caamy puts her arm around Christine and says,
I'm going to be your friend. And she was friends
whatever for the rest of her life. So we try
to teach the kids, you see someone different in the
classroom or whatever, be your friend to that person. So
(29:51):
there's a lot of lessons that can be learned from
from this story.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
And that's.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Very relatable.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, it really is. And you know, I would obviously
encourage one thing from all the listeners out here, and
that is make sure you share this. Sharing is very
important with what we do. The more people that have
access to see this on if you see a link
on Facebook, share that on your on your newsfeed, because
(30:22):
it's what it's all about, as many people as possible
knowing not only did this exists, but a little bit
of the story behind it. You're open Tuesday through Friday, correct,
and then Saturday by appointment.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
That is correct.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
We do like when we encourage if you're listening and
watching us to call ahead. We just want to make
sure we can best accommodate you because we do have groups.
We have groups scheduled, but you know, you can call
the museum at three three seven non four eight two,
(31:00):
and we have an email which is La Orphan train
In two thousand and nine at gmail dot com. But yep,
call us up. We'd love for y'all to come and
learn about this untold history, very unique history. It's only
one of two Orphan Trae Museums in America. It's right
here in Louisiana. I'm so proud of that shit. Yes,
and so you know it's a gym.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
And I like to say too that when I was
teaching school, kids have that desire to learn about their
local histories. You know, we're real good about teaching about
American history and world history, but there's so many stories
out there that you'd be amazed the interest when when
you're talking about someone you mentioned last names. Hey, I
(31:44):
might re relate to that person and their ears picked
per cup, and they have that desire to learn about
They love to hear about their own families, and that's
one thing we try.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
To do well.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You're at the gym. We're in a circa nineteen hundred.
It's one of the last Union Pacific Freight depot buildings
left in the state of Louisiana, and it's beautiful. So
uh you know. The interesting thing about that is typically
those buildings are bulldozed. They're not ever saved and restored.
(32:18):
I was was restored, thank god. So uh, you know,
we have a beautiful building that the museum's in.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I love that, and y'all are doing some phenomenal work.
I want I want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yes, so, And it's just been a pleasure to be
able to come and speak of this. And I hope
whoever's out there, if you think you know, or you
might even be descended from an orphan train rider, or
you might have heard your grandparents or your even your
parents talk about this. I'm a second generation. I'm a
granddaughter of one you know, if there's anybody listening to this,
(32:55):
y'all need to call this because you never know, you
could be descended from very well could be.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
And the great thing too, Jim, is we've gone from
where the original orphans kept everything inside, you know, they
felt in some cases ashamed and so forth, to now
where we have an activity. We call it a gathering.
It's like a little reunion in October. And the grandchildren
or the children who are up in age now also
(33:25):
they love to put a little ribbons on that says
they were descending.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Up a newer carpet.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah, we've come a long ways in the last several years.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
And I'm gonna link tons of links in the description
of video, folks, So if you're driving you're listening to this,
or hopefully you're not driving it and watching it listening
to it. When you get somewhere where you want to
click on that link, you don't have to write anything down.
I'm gonna have everything for you in the description. You
(33:56):
can go right to the website, learn more about it,
and check those folks out, follow them on Facebook, and
please share this podcast. And now we're gonna get miss
Angie up and look, I got a great story for
you with miss Angie when she gets up here. So
we're gonna swap off real quick. Don't go anywhere, all right.
So now we're here with miss Angie Cornet. How did
(34:20):
you get involved in something from Opelousas and so amazing,
pat very passionate about it. And look, y'all we have
been planning this. We had storms come through. We have
one prior playing prior to this, back when storms came
through and then life came through and it was just
sinking back up was difficult. But I credit miss Aerjie
(34:43):
because she she did what you have to do with
Jim Chapman sometimes and that stay on him, you know,
you get somebody irons and those fires and and so
I appreciate you doing that, and I want to talk
to you about your passion for this.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, first, ipreciate you. Thank you so very much for
doing this. I first heard about the Orphan Train about
a little over a year ago. It was actually March fifth,
twenty twenty four, at a Livingston Parish Retired Teachers Association meeting.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
They had a.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
Presentation of the Louisiana Orphan Train Museum and Martha and
James were there and they spoke, and as I listened
to them do their presentation, it was about an hour,
and I thumbed through or perused through the materials that
they had there. I was fascinated by very familiar Louisiana
(35:40):
surnames that hit close to home. Riley, Harris, LeBlanc, Breu, brown, Ardowine, etc.
And I couldn't help but think. It really peaked my fascination.
I couldn't help but think, who am I am? I
a descendant of an orphan train writer? And I scanned
(36:01):
across the room at the participants at the meeting attendees
and wondered. Collectively, I looked at them, but individually I thought,
who are you? After the meeting, when several people were leaving,
a few of us were talking and a man, a
retired educator with a history degree at angie, have you
(36:24):
heard of the Louisiana orphan train?
Speaker 4 (36:27):
He said, I have not.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Why is it not in the history textbooks? I have
a degree in history. Why is it not there? So
my response was, well, I don't know, let's find out.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, and you became a mission for you in some ways.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Right Over the next year, there was lots of visits
and phone calls and emails and research, and I got
to visit the museum, which I would encourage anyone to
go to Louisiana Orphan Train Museum in Ippolusi's Louisiana. Martha
did the tour, and I had an odd feeling when
(37:04):
I was there, And honestly, I have not stopped.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
I have very busy life.
Speaker 5 (37:08):
I have not stopped yet to look up my personal
history because this has I guess that's on the back
burner right now as this is in the forefront. Sure,
But as I toured the museum and went through Martha's presentation,
I don't know. I told Martha, maybe I don't have
a connection. Maybe I'm not a descendant of an orphan
(37:31):
train writer, but maybe as an educator or retired teacher
from Livingston Parish, maybe it's just the unheard.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
It's the voices of the children.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
Over a quarter million orphans came into the American West
over a seventy five year time period. That's two hundred
and fifty thousand children.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Who were placed. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (37:54):
Yes, And so if someone's listening and you don't know
your family history, give the museum a call and.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
They'll help you. They'll help you do some research.
Speaker 5 (38:03):
I think they said that they have done they have Facebook,
lived or different different methods of getting with people and
trying to communicate with them and to discover their history.
But anyway, I spoke to the assistant superintendent of the
Leuingston Parish School System. He had his curriculum department to
(38:24):
look in the K eight Social Studies curriculum has no
mention of the Orphan Train, no mention so as you
peruse through the Louisiana Content Standards, though, there are standards
there that exist where the Orphan Train lesson could be
aligned with the standards, and that is kind of my plea.
(38:48):
That is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping that history Majors,
Louisiana educators, anyone who's willing to put together some plans
that all with the Louisiana standards and share it to
the website that Mss Martha gave earlier at the museum,
if they would share it to that, and then we
(39:10):
could get this into the hands of the Louisiana educators
and ask them if they would include this in their
curriculum as long as they're teaching the standards and the
standards are aligne the curriculums a line with the standards,
we could start introducing this integral part of our history.
To me, it's part of the fabric of Louisiana, but
(39:33):
it's not yet been woven in.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
And if we tarry.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Too long, a great way to put that, If.
Speaker 5 (39:38):
We tarry too long, it may be forgotten history. I'd
like to see one an increase increased awareness on the topic,
and kudos to you because this expands the audience to
increase that, to change that awareness. But I'd like to
see it in the hands of Louisiana educators. But we
(40:00):
have to go beyond that because this generation of educators,
if it's.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Not passed on.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
So I'd like to see the Louisiana Department of Education
add this as a possible topic to teach next to
the standard. And whether you're comparing and contrasting, looking at
the causes and effects of immigration to the United States
at that time, it can fit. I'm sure even in
(40:28):
a third grade curriculum. I'm sure there's a lot of places,
whether they're writing, comparing, contrasting, looking at calls and effect,
looking at primary and secondary resources, all of these things
we can incorporate the Louisiana Orphan Train and align them
with the standards. I would like to say that the
(40:49):
Country Roads magazine I visited with them, that was one
of my stops, and they had done an article May
twenty twenty three and they called it one of the
largest yet least understood migrations in human history.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
I think that's a you can't sum it up any better, really,
I very well put.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
I know you mentioned it earlier, earlier, but I feel
like although the beginning of the seventy five year period
was sort of rudimentary, so.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
To speak, I think that.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
It was a.
Speaker 5 (41:24):
Seventy five year humanitarian effort. It was an early form
of child welfare, if you will. But as all initiatives are,
they start one way and they approve improve.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Along the way.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
And perhaps I don't know if the story got lost there,
but we want to spread that awareness and we want
to make a change. So it starts with each of
you out there, if you're listening, if you're an educator,
and you would like to all work with you, or
you can work alone, or you can put together a group,
put together a lessoner unit that aligne with Louisiana content
(42:01):
standards and that teaches and brings awareness to Louisiana Orphan
Train movement. Please send it to the Orphan Train newsm
website that well, I'm sure Jim will have available. Martha
mentioned earlier. If we could get this into the hands
of all Louisiana educators, that is one that is a
great start.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
And then if you have.
Speaker 5 (42:23):
Any anyone that you can talk to with the Louisiana
Department of Education, any of the curriculum specialists, and we
can try to get this topic listed next to the
standards to be taught, that would be a great avenue
to go as well. But I did speak to doctor
sam Hyde, you do, I did. I also talked to
(42:46):
I talked to him and he actually put me in
touch with Michael Martin Center for Louisiana Studies at ULL
and he runs a journal for Louisiana History and anyway,
he in turn me in touch with the writer of
Louisiana Our History or Home, which was done by Alicia Long.
So it just snowballed in one contact. One contact led
(43:10):
to another and Louisiana Department of Education contacts.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
I spoke to.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
The writer of the bay Ubridge's curriculum that's currently being
used in Louisiana in our middle school social studies and
in addition to that, the Claremont Press and Katie Stark
is an education specialist at LPB, was very impressed after
speaking with her. She said that she wanted to create
(43:38):
a landing page where all documentaries and resources on the
Orphan train.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Lesson plans could be tied.
Speaker 5 (43:45):
To those documentaries and resources as well, but she said
she's the only person in this particular department. She has
other things lined up now and that will be in
the future. It might take quite a while to get there,
but so a lot of buzz has been created and
we'd like to ask everyone to let's not let these
(44:07):
unheard voices of a quarter million million children to go unheard.
We'd like to ask you to hop on board this train,
so to speak, and be a part of a movement
to weave these voices in this history into the fabric
of Louisiana.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
How important is this do you?
Speaker 5 (44:28):
I think as an educator, Again, I haven't done the
research yet to look back at my family history, all
the familiar names.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
I'd like to really go do a deep dive into that.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
But I think just being an educator and the compassion
for children, and just the thought of a quarter million
children scared and lonely put on a train, brought to
a new place with a new home and new family,
new people, new schoolmates. It just tug at my heart. Yeah,
(45:04):
and again maybe it's just their voice is tugging at
my shirt, saying, hey, be a voice for me.
Speaker 4 (45:13):
Be a voice.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
And you sure have been. Why I do what I
do a lot of times is because of the passion
that people that come out when people talk about things
that are very important to them. You got no skin
in this game, per se. I mean, you could have
went on living life and this wouldn't have been something.
This is work. This is work for these people that
(45:36):
volunteer for the Orphan Train Museum. This is work for you,
and so you're very selfless to do it, and the
passion just comes out when you talk about it. It
means something to you. I love that I can tell
you I will do everything I can possibly do to
(45:58):
help get the word out. That's what I do, That's
what I'm good at. But thank you so much for
stepping outside yourself and just doing something just because you
feel like it's important. And it speaks to you. I
think that's awesome.
Speaker 5 (46:12):
Well, thank you for jumping on this train with us.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
You got it, you got it. I want to thank
our other guest as well for joining us today, Miss
Martha and mister Jim, and I am going to link
again everything to the description of this episode that you
will need to get started to go check out that museum.
Let's tell as many people as possible about this. Strength
(46:39):
comes in numbers. The more people you have that want
to learn more about this, the better success that you're
likely to see. I want to thank all of you
for listening, supporting, sharing the podcast in general. There is
no meed without all of you, and I appreciate that
so very much. And until next time, I want to
(47:01):
remind you to love your community, support local business, and
keep leading. Thank you very much.
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