February 9, 2025 • 70 mins
We share the emotional rollercoaster of selling our house, navigating family loss, and discovering our forever home while emphasizing the importance of legacy and community support. The journey highlights resilience in the face of challenges while building a future for our children.
• Transitioning from city life to a rural community
• The unexpected death that reshaped our priorities
• Struggles with selling our home amidst market challenges
• Discovering a new opportunity at a farmer's market
• Settling into a home that fosters family and legacy
• Emphasizing the value of support systems during tough times
• Looking forward to new goals and furthering the podcast mission
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Also, check out the folks who got us together:
Music by: FiyahStartahz
https://soundcloud.com/fiyahstartahz
Cover art by: Timeless Acrylics
https://www.facebook.com/geremy.woods.94
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hey everybody, welcome back to season two of
Lockdown to Legacy.
I'm your host, Remy Jones, andfrom time to time I will be
joined by my co-host, dj, whojust so happens to also be my
awesome sauce wife.
I also have a couple of closefriends that are still
incarcerated who will be regularcontributors, and together we
will bring you the real ondealing with the criminal
(00:35):
justice system from multipleangles.
A lot of what we share will bereal experiences from both
currently and formerlyincarcerated people like myself,
along with current events thataffect those impacted by the
legal system.
So thank you for tapping in,thank you for sticking with us
from season one.
Now let's get to it.
Hey everybody, welcome back toseason two of the Lockdown to
(01:10):
Legacy podcast.
I am your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And I am your co-host , Debbie Jones.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And together we're about to bring you the real on
this prison stuff now.
Um, you know we try to coverthe 360, uh, incarceration
experience or even just thelegal um, criminal justice
system experience.
But don't worry, I'll edit thatout Anyway, uh, I'm excited to
be back.
(01:41):
How about you?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, it's good to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, you guys know we did some half-assed
announcements saying that wewere going to go on hiatus and
we thought it was going to bebrief, just to be real.
But you know, life got tolifin' so I guess first we could
tell that story about how abrief hiatus turned into what
(02:08):
six months.
Yeah, that was aggressive.
So I guess, to start, I mean,we can just jump right in.
Sure, we were going to move toDC, I believe we not to DC, to
Maryland, to be close to DC.
We're going to move to DC, Ibelieve we not to DC, to
Maryland, to be close to DC.
(02:28):
I believe we told you guysabout that and the experience of
going house hunting andeverything down there.
Well, you know, unfortunatelyUncle Bob died and that kind of
put things in a new perspective,you know, a reframe for us, and
so we decided we wanted to becloser to home.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And by home we meant moving out to the boonies, away
from Columbus, to be closer tofamily.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Ohio.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Ohio, yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, we kind ofkicked around the idea and then
all of a sudden we were likelet's do it.
Like it literally was likelet's do it.
And then three days later wewere trying to get our house
ready to be listed.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So poor planning on us.
We can't be mad about how itplayed out from there, but it
all turned out for the best,yeah.
And so we're going to kind ofcover and chronicle the
adventures that ensued afterthat in this episode.
So, first up, we tried to getthe house ready to sell.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Right, and that was in June.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That was in June and I'm talking about big heavy
lifts.
I had a lot of open-ended houseprojects.
We had great, great supportfrom the family.
People came over and washelping me build a fire pit, my
father-in-law was helping mebuild a front porch, all these
things.
And then the realtor came andwas like hey, we're going to
(03:52):
want to list even sooner thanyou guys thought.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Right Ahead of the July 4th holiday.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, and they were like nah nah X, that we want to
get it on as soon as possiblebecause the school year is
coming up.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So we were like oh X, that we want to get it on as
soon as possible because theschool year is coming up, right?
So we were like, oh crap.
Next thing, you know, we werehalfway through building a front
porch on our house and we hadto dig up all the posts and put,
mulch down, make it look likeit never happened.
It was pretty, pretty intense.
We resurfaced our driveway, wewere painting inside, we were,
(04:28):
yeah, everything really.
I mean I burned through some uhvacation time at work.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I was just going to say it took a lot of significant
time off to just to um be thereon days you couldn't, and a lot
of things to get it ready andget it on the market.
But then, in addition to that,we had to make a big ask.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So shout out to my parents for letting us live with
them for what we thought wasgoing to just be for the
viewings and ended up being likefour months, right, right, and
you know that kind of has, likeit's like stigma, like oh, you
got to move back in with thein-laws or with the parents and
stuff.
So big shout out to thembecause living with them,
especially being, as it was,unplanned to live with them that
(05:16):
long, it really turned out tobe a great experience yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I mean they took on their four grandkids in a
full-time capacity and the twoof us.
So I mean, for two retirees itwas a big life change and they
were very selfless in thatprocess.
So we thought we would justhave showings for a week, a
(05:41):
weekend.
That's what the market and ourrealtors told us and we thought
to believe and that's not thereality of what happened.
And by the time our housefinally got into contract which
I'm sure you'll talk about itwas time for school to start and
we didn't want our kids tostart school and then have to
change schools a month and ahalf in to the school year.
(06:06):
So we decided it was best forus to continue to stay with my
mom and dad while our housetransition fully took place.
It was a lot.
I don't know where you want togo from there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I mean there's so many ways to go from there Right
.
I guess, to start, we'll startwith the selling process.
As I mentioned before, we hadreached out to the people who
helped us buy the house.
We had a good experience.
So we were like, hey, let'sreach out to them.
We kept in contact.
This should be easy.
Then we also had a buying agentup here where we currently live
(06:46):
to help us find a new house.
So two realtors and then we hadthem communicating with each
other so that everybody was onthe same page and everybody on
board.
Plus, we shopped some otherrealtors.
Everybody was like, man, thishouse is awesome, it's going to
sell within like four to sevendays.
So we were like, oh, it's goingto sell within like four to
seven days.
So we were like, oh, it's goingto be a cakewalk, we're going
(07:07):
to be, you know.
And then up here the real estatemarket moves a little slower.
So we were anticipating that wewould just have our way with a
choice of house.
And then came the hiccups.
So the first hiccup was, withinlike a day or two of us listing
(07:29):
our house for sale, going liveon the market, the feds made an
announcement that they werepotentially going to lower
interest rates In the fall.
Right?
So in the fall, you would thinkthat that would not affect us
at all.
But what happened was ouranticipation of selling within a
(07:50):
week turned into a sellingafter 52 days.
Right, we had a like what thehell?
Moment with our realtors.
So if they are listening,please forgive my tone, but I
was like dude, what the heck?
What's our game plan?
(08:11):
Why isn't this house selling?
Everybody that came to see thehouse said the same thing oh,
this is the best house we'veseen, out of all the ones we've
seen.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So far Everybody loved it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
But we're not going to make an offer.
What?
Why the fuck did you even come?
Excuse my language, sorry.
Um, people were like, hey, wedon't, we don't know if we want
a split level.
You know, that was a big excuseand my thing was it says it's a
split level in the in the ad,um.
But you know, for whateverreason, um, in the first 30 days
(08:45):
we had like nine viewingsshowings, um, which was pretty
low.
That's pretty low, um, andhence why, you know, we can't
just move back in because it'snot selling, so we have to keep
the show ready back in becauseit's not selling, so we have to
(09:07):
keep the show ready.
So now we're living with myin-laws for a month, for two
months, and that turned out tobe a four and a half month
ordeal.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, finally the house went into contract.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It did.
We had to discount it, whichbroke my heart.
I'm always the money consciousperson and I was like I want to
drive a hard bargain.
But you know, we just had torelent and in the end we're
happy with it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I think what, without having to get into all
of the details of all of thethings um, we had made an offer
on a house that we really likedand the contingency was we had
to be within contract within aspecific number of days, and we
just couldn't meet that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh no, that's one detail we got to say.
They said we had to be incontract, our house had to be
sold within 10 days.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We thought, eh, 10 days, no problem, it didn't work
out.
Like Remy said, we were on themarket for 52 days.
Yeah, we thought 10 days, noproblem, it didn't work out.
Like Remy said, we were on themarket for 52 days, so it just
it didn't work.
And but I think the silverlining of that is, in retrospect
, we want out bigger in thehouse we currently are in.
Do you want me to talk aboutthat a little bit in that
(10:25):
process?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Well, sure, I mean, there is the other house, though
, which I thought was amazing,she's downplaying it.
I thought at the time thatthere was no way we were going
to find a better house for that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I was not as in love with it as my husband was,
but-.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
But she put it on a good front and made me feel like
she was all in.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I wasn't for you.
It seemed to check all of theboxes for you.
Um well, I mean, it was, it wasgood it just it didn't check
all of the boxes for me.
I imagined, if we were movingup here, that our yard was going
to be bigger.
Uh, it was going to be more,like my childhood experience,
and so that house was still in aneighborhood and so we still
(11:06):
had pretty close neighbors,things like that.
So it was, the house was great.
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I wasn't in love with the land, which you knew, so
yeah, so the land was an acreand a quarter, I don't remember.
So I mean, that's, that's acome up from our quarter acre
lot at our last house, which wasgreat for me, I don't remember,
but mainly for me, it was thefact that the house had been
(11:33):
completely redone.
It was beautiful, centralfireplace, you know, stone, all
this stuff, and it set up on abig hill.
(11:54):
And what I had found out wasthat this house used to belong
to the head prosecutor of thecounty, I think I was told.
And so, you know, I didn't evengo in front, man, I was ego
tripping, I'm like, oh, look atme with all these felonies about
to move in a prosecutor's house.
So I probably was willing tooverreach for that alone.
(12:19):
But you know, you never hear metalk about God.
But something was looking outfor us.
The universe had other thingslined up for us, you know, and
so it fell through.
Our 10 days expired and we werelike, hey, sorry, guys, we need
an extension.
(12:40):
And they said, well, we askedfor like 10 days or 11 days, I
think so, yeah, and they werelike, no, you can have, you know
, we want it business days.
They were like, no, you gotstraight seven days and we were
like I don't know if that'sgoing to work and we don't want
to waste your time, so you knowwe'll walk.
And like the next day, ourrealtor was like like yo, they
(13:04):
reached out to us overnight andthey were like no, no, we want
to make this work yeah we'llgive you five thousand dollars
if you come through.
And we were like I got excitedbecause I like to negotiate.
I was like I knew we shouldhave leaned on him and gave him
the squeeze, but we we turnedhim down.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, cause at that point it was too much stress.
Right, like I was, I as aperson with an anxiety disorder
I was over it.
It wasn't a house I loved.
I wasn't willing to continue todraw out something that I felt
was inevitable, which was thatit wasn't going to come together
, and so the stress of that wasreally difficult for me,
particularly because you're notallowed to answer your phone
(13:47):
during the day.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, so I did leave the bulk of this whole
experience on you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I had to field the calls with the banks and the
realtors and the back and forth.
My phone ringing caused meanxiety because I didn't know
who it was going to be and whatI was going to have to figure
out, because I couldn't get ahold of you to do it.
I just had to make all thesegames.
It was a really difficult timefor me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And the bank side of it was a whole other ordeal that
we probably won't get into.
We're not going to get into it,but just know that it was petty
and nonsensical.
It was a lot.
It was a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Getting approved.
If you've gotten approved for ahouse loan in recent years,
it's kind of like going to theB&B now where you've got to
bring your soul in a jar to getyour driver's license renewed.
That's how getting a loan feels, regardless of your incomes.
It's very invasive.
I think is a good word for it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I mean, it's demeaning too.
That's how it felt for me,because the one thing I will say
on the subject is that we havemultiple streams of income and
it's all documented W-2s.
Whatever was needed, we had it.
And they were like no, we can'tuse these.
We have no good reason why wecan't.
(15:09):
We're just going to use yourmain job.
And then they were like, afterexcluding all of this income,
we're going to say you're 1%over on the debt to income ratio
.
And we're like no, we're not.
And then they then they wereeven like well, if you could pay
this and this off, so we soldour motorcycles, which was sad,
(15:30):
and, um, you know, we paid someother stuff off.
And then they were like well,where's this money coming from
that you're paying this stuffoff with?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
and we're like that income you wouldn't include so
it was literally with money youtold me doesn't count.
So I don't know what you like,because then we had to prove how
we paid it off and I was likehere's my paycheck and here's
where I paid it off from thisother job that you said doesn't
(15:56):
count so, even selling themotorcycles, we sold the
motorcycles.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Like when I sold mine , the guy met me at the bank.
We walked in, paid the peopleand got the lien release and all
that, and they were like, well,this money didn't come from one
of your accounts, you have toprove where it came from.
And I'm like I just told you,but anyway, that was that.
But the house fell through andI thought it was the end of the
(16:24):
world because I was like, man,we're not going to find another
house like that.
I really wanted it.
It did not check off all thethings.
Like you said, I was real bigon having like a man space, but
it was a ranch, it wasimmaculately done, it had more
land, it had a three-car garage.
(16:45):
We were like, ah, this is great.
But you know, hey, I waswilling to concede certain stuff
in order to have that.
It fell through and while I wasmoping, the most immaculate
thing, the most amazing thing,happened to you.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I went to the farmer's market is what happened
?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, farmer's market saved our lives.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I was actually at the library in our tiny town here
and I was working on mydissertation, which is another
topic.
But I was tired, I was ready totake a break and I was like, oh
, it's Saturday, farmer'smarket's happening.
I should stop by see if there'sanybody I know still working at
the farmer's market.
We really love like freshproduce, we love local,
(17:33):
supporting local, those types ofthings.
I was like I'm going to checkin at the farmer's market and a
family friend was there who Ihad recently seen at the 4th of
July parade here in our town andI had told him that we were
looking at moving back.
So I saw him again at thefarmer's market and he said, hey
, you still thinking of movingback here?
(17:53):
And I said, yeah, we just hadthis house fall through or
trying, but we can't get ourhouse to sell, we can't get our
uh, you know, the house, a houseup here we're we're kind of in
a pickle.
And he said to me well, I'veactually been looking at
downsizing.
Would you like to come andcheck out my house?
And I jokingly said back to himlike well, I got a lot of kids.
Is it going to fit my kids?
And he was like yes, itabsolutely will.
(18:15):
So very next day, you and Icame over to see it and as of
now, we are sitting in themaster bedroom of that house
recording this podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, and just as a quick summary of what this house
is, we talked about how Iwanted a man space and of course
, we need a space for our kidsand we want it land.
So what is this?
A log cabin with a bunch ofland.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
In a log cabin.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And a workshop.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, a big workshop, that is all yours.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
All mine.
You hear that it's on recordnow.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I said it on a recorded line, it was just a
handshake deal before, but nowit's on record.
Yeah, I don't just do podcastcount as official.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It counts.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Records.
I got a million fans, at leastin my mind and they're all going
to show up to court to testify.
Yeah, this house for me is alegacy, right.
Like this is a house that wecan pass on to our kids.
It has extra spaces that werepreviously used.
(19:21):
Like there's a space above thetwo-car garage.
Like that whole two cardetached garage used to be an
apartment while they werebuilding the house itself, and
so it was important to you and Ito have somewhere for our
parents in case they needed aspace.
So we wanted like an in-lawsuite, just in case we needed to
(19:42):
have our parents on site tohelp take care of them, and it
kind of checks off that box,which was really big to us both.
We have a lot of land for ourkids to grow and explore, and
you've got a space and it reallyworked out in a way that was
(20:06):
unforeseen, couldn't have evendreamed of it, and because it
was a family friend working withus, they didn't care when our
house sold, so it immediatelytook the pressure off of like
well, you have to be in contractby this date, because they were
just like eh, let us know,we'll start looking around and
(20:27):
making some plans and we'll takethis casually and we continue
to have a really greatrelationship now.
We hang out, we check in witheach other.
Pretty frequently you call tojust say the things that look
cool.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I go out in that workshop and I'm like man,
this is amazing.
And the thing is that I oftenminimalize how far I've come
after prison.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And so, as you see, debbie, we'll, we'll attest to
it.
So I've had a pretty good runcompared to, I guess, what the
statistics say about, you know,recidivism and stuff and job
placement and stuff like that,and I've done my best to help
(21:17):
others and somehow I stillbecause I had this grand book of
goals and you know, a lot ofthem kind of just got distracted
with new goals and stuff.
So I kind of felt like man, Ireally ain't done much, you know
.
I mean I went to college.
That was a big accomplishment.
Then I dropped out of collegeand you know, I kind of was hard
(21:38):
on myself about that.
But it wasn't until we movedinto this house that I really
felt like man, like okay, we'redoing something here.
And, of course, debbie's, likeI'm proud of you because you did
this and I'm like, nah, becauseyou know I believe I would have
accomplished a lot, but Ibelieve I would not have
(22:00):
accomplished this without you.
So this is an us achievementand it, you know, is both of our
goals to do this.
But you mentioned that this initself is a legacy thing.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And that is what I really started to see, like
making plans to turn the garage,the two car detached, into an
apartment for parents, forretirement and stuff.
You know, like, okay, like thisisn't just a me goal, like this
is really impacting otherpeople's lives in major ways, um
, to see what it's done for ourkids already and we've only been
(22:36):
in this house a few months it'slike, you know, it's amazing.
And so now I'm starting to see,like, um, so these goals didn't
happen, but this is somethingthat's not a drop in the bucket,
it's not something to besneezed at and disregarded, you
know, um, so I really feel, like, you know, as I approach my
(23:00):
seventh year out, that's right,um, you know, coming up in March
, like this is huge.
What, oh yeah, it is May, lookat that Been out so long I don't
even remember.
I can still tell you my prisonnumber, though.
But give it another few years,it'll be good, all right, but
(23:26):
anyway, this house, it's ajourney.
We moved in and it wasn't likethe move-in show house.
I mean, we had some projects onthe books, yeah.
But at first I thought, man, itneeds some work, it needs some
(23:49):
work, it needs some work.
And now, as you know, like Isaid, we've been here a few
months and I've gotten a fewprojects under my belt.
We just plowed our driveway,which is ridiculously long now,
for the first time, and it wasan experience, yeah, but it's
like creating instant memories.
You know like everything, everyproject we do, every you know
(24:11):
thing we do outside.
It's like an experience and it'sreally like putting our stamp
on this place yeah you know,it's not just like, oh, we moved
in the house and now we livedhere.
It's like, oh, we moved in thishouse and we're making it ours,
beyond just simple decorationsand stuff that we put in it.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, and this forever home that we now have is
(24:57):
when so many folks our age arestill trying to buy their first
house, is we very muchacknowledge where that is for us
but hopefully stands as atestament as to what is possible
, even you know, in spite ofthings like felonies and a
10-year prison record, even inspite of significant student
loan debt.
I'm looking at myself, not atyou, and now I think people are
like, oh no, I've got too muchin student loans, I can't afford
to buy a house, which is, yeah,I get it.
I do have significant studentloan debt because of a system
(25:21):
that is broken, um, regardinghow we counsel students in terms
of taking on collegeexperiences.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And credit card debt let's not forget that and credit
card debt, All kinds of thingsright Because they're quick to
give you a student credit card.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Listen, that's another podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That's somebody else's, but we'd love to be
guests, right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
If you have that space, write to stories at
lockdowntolegacycom and we willget in touch.
But all of that to say we'rereally happy.
We got our keys in the middleof November, had a really great
move-in experience, hired thesame folks who helped move us
out.
We have we tirelessly cleanedand getting the space ready.
(26:05):
We've been working on someprojects, some small things,
getting ourselves ready for thespring and the bigger things we
need to tackle.
But the thought that this is itfor us in terms of a house,
right, and knowing that,whatever happens, this gets
Ivan's already claimed it rightno matter what happens to us,
(26:26):
our children get to make thedecisions as to what happens
with this space next is a Idon't know.
It's a feeling of pride that Ididn't think that I was going to
feel.
Um, so it's a very differentexperience than moving to the
Maryland metropolis.
It's a very different, uhexperience than the things we
thought it was going to be,which was buying a bigger house
(26:47):
in the Columbus area, going toMaryland.
None of our original dreamsnecessarily revolved around
being out in a slower pace oflife, but I don't have any
regrets.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
No, not at all.
Um, I you know, as we talkabout legacies, I think it's
great Um, how our kids love thishouse.
Um, like our, our youngest,raylan.
She named the house.
Um, you just heard oursix-year-old son has claimed the
(27:29):
house, you know so, whenactually he said he's never
moving out.
So not only has he claimed it,he's like you know, just to
solidify that I'm not leaving.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, and his statement to us was when he told
us that he was going to keepthe house.
He was like I was like, oh, youwant to live here.
And he was like, well, somebodyhas to take care of grandma and
grandpa.
And when he means grandma andgrandpa, he means my grandma and
grandpa, so hisgreat-grandparents.
So he's acknowledging that wewill have passed on.
He's acknowledging that hisgrandparents will pass on, but
(28:06):
don't worry, great-grandma andgrandpa will still be around the
corner and need somebody totake care of them.
It made me laugh so much.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, and in addition , I got bonus kids and to have
them, we did Christmas alltogether this year and that was
a great experience to haveeveryone here and like the look
on their faces when they seen itfor the first time, not
including the little barn outfront that needs torn down.
(28:36):
But once we got past that andthey saw it open up and they're
like wow, like this is the house.
Well, they didn't even realize.
Like all the land was ours, sowe had to explain to that.
You know, we went on an ATVtour around the property and
they're like oh my gosh, andthat's really cool to change the
perspectives of the kids andwhat is possible.
(29:02):
Like for the majority of theirlives they lived in small houses
or apartments.
So I always talk to my kidsabout my goals and try to
explain along the way so thatthey don't think it happened
overnight and it was easy, Likethis is a labor of love, you
know, and it's all yours one day.
You know, you and your siblings, so that was really cool and to
(29:26):
see how they grow in the space.
You know, at first they justsaw oh, I get my own room, you
know.
Or uh, oh, look how big my roomis, or you know, oh look, I
have space for my cars andtracks and you know stuff.
But it seems like every daysomething else comes up where
(29:47):
they're like oh okay, you know,it's small stuff and it really
matters to me too.
But like building a fire in ourwood-burning stove like the
first time I did that I was likeshit, fucking cowboy out here.
You know I'm uh yeah, I'm rightaround, I'm walking around in
my work, cowboy boots and stuff.
I'm just feeling myself, butit's like that's not something
(30:13):
we would have done in WestColumbus.
So for me that's kind of a bigdeal, Collecting firewood and
just everything is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Tell me about how the ?
Uh, cause you've mostly livedin big cities, too, your whole
life, so this is a different.
I mean, this is a normal to me.
This is how I grew up, but, um,this is new ish to you in terms
of the lifestyle.
Uh, tell me about it.
Yeah, I mean.
So I've experienced this typeof living new-ish to you in
(30:46):
terms of the lifestyle.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, I mean so I've experienced this type of living,
but mostly just visiting, likemy grandfather living in a tiny
town down in Florida, and youknow everybody's got land and
stuff like that.
So it was kind of coolexperiencing that as a kid.
But you're right, for the mostpart I've lived in the
(31:14):
neighborhood or in the hood, youknow, um, pretty pretty close
knit in different ways.
Like living out here is veryclose knit, everybody knows
everybody and everybody'ssupportive of everybody for the
most part.
But there's a proximity factorthat's not really like our
neighbor.
Yeah, they're not like a miledown the road, but I can't look
in their window, I can't seetheir front door, so it's kind
(31:39):
of like out of sight, out ofmind, like I feel like I don't
have neighbors, Right?
Um, but the fact that we wethought we weren't gonna like it
or that we would have to takemore time adjusting because we
can't just run around the cornerreal quick to the store or to
(32:00):
some trendy restaurant or highend dining, or you know, we went
to OSU games, we went toColumbus Crew games.
That's not down the streetanymore.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, takes some planning now.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Right, I mean even the grocery store, stuff like
that.
You know, now it's like we gotto go in town, we got to make a
trip into town.
Do you need anything?
You know, and you particularlywere worried about me and how I
would take adjusting to that andI'm like shut up, I'm like I
don't got no issues.
You know, the commute has beenOK.
(32:32):
I got a.
I got a 55 minute commute.
Now I used to have a sevenminute commute.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That is a little different and my energy levels
had to adjust.
You know getting up an hourearlier, you know to go, then do
a 12-hour shift and drive backan hour.
But for the most part, man, Ilike it.
I like the smaller town vibe,less traffic, less.
You know, nobody's really in ahurry here, so you don't have
(33:04):
the people like cutting you off,almost causing an accident and
then flicking you off like itwas your fault.
You know I like it.
And we still have Walmart.
We still got Kroger.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Everybody's got a Walmart, don't they?
No, they don't.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
But if you do have a Walmart, you know that you're in
the club, you're big deal.
But yeah, I like it out here.
Man, I think that the commute,which I originally thought was
going to be a bad thing, hasactually been a good thing
Because as I am leaving, thebusyness of Columbus, where we
(33:40):
lived before, has expandedexponentially.
They built what five, sixhousing and apartment
developments along two streets.
On either side of our housethere's six apartment and
housing developments coming up.
So the amount of traffic andjust busyness you know to then
(34:03):
like leave that and just thefurther out I get, the closer to
home I get it's like it alldisappears, right, and I'm on
those two lane country roads bythe time I'm back home and it's
like mentally it's awesome, it'sa great decompression and you
know I can put myself in likehome mode, you know which is
(34:27):
pretty cool.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
uh, it's.
It's an interesting thingbecause it's not new to me.
It's like being back yeah, it'slike how is it like to be back,
everybody's like, is it you're?
The and so it's uh, it's aninteresting piece because, quite
honestly, I couldn't wait toget away from here.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I worried about that coming by.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, I think what is helpful, though, is what I have
learned about myself in thetime away and in living
somewhere differently, is that Inow know how to put up
appropriate boundaries and Iknow how to filter opinions, and
(35:17):
what I mean by that is, I think, that, though the ideologies
that may exist here aredifferent than my own, I have a
good barometer, a little bit, ofbeing able to just kind of
filter that, because people'sthoughts and opinions are just
(35:40):
that their thoughts and opinions.
They're not their whole selves,and I think, in being away and
in being at school and being injobs and living in Columbus, I
have I mean, there are people inColumbus I don't agree with
either, right, so it's-.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It's kind of like that agree to disagree.
Yeah, a little bit.
Because I think I would imaginethat living out here without
experiencing anything outside ofhere gives you a pressure to
kind of go along with it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, and you don't know how to like, you don't know
how to counter those things ina way that feels appropriate.
I think I, as a person, havegrown a lot in my time away and
so it's given me better skillsto facilitate difficult
conversations.
Or and it's not that I I mean Ifeel like I'm making it sound
like every conversation I havehere is bad or that every person
(36:28):
that lives here I disagree with.
That's not necessarily the case, but, like when you've not
lived anywhere else orexperienced anything differently
, um, I think your perspectiveis a little bit limited.
But by me moving away andhaving a lot of personal growth
and professional growth and allof these other things, coming
(36:50):
back doesn't necessarily feellike I'm coming back the same
way.
I'm coming back with a lot ofdifferent perspectives.
My truths are different, myopinions have changed right,
because I've been confrontedwith some new information, right
.
So I feel good about being here.
(37:10):
I still get to do things that Ienjoy and spaces that I enjoy,
and I'm finding ways to do sointentionally.
So I really have liked beingback to be closer to family.
That was really important to me, particularly after our loss
the beginning of last year,which just happened.
The anniversary of that deathjust happened, which just
(37:36):
happened, the anniversary ofthat death just happened.
And that was like I think Isaid in that episode, that was
the first death my family hasexperienced in like 30 years, so
that was really hard for us.
So now that we are here, I feellike we are able to help out
differently, help out more, andmy family is really close, like
(37:57):
they're together all the time.
They're together right nowwhile we're recording.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, we kind of skipped out on Sunday lunch.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, apologies, grandma.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Apologies, cause they just might be listening to this
though, sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So those are the things that I feel like I missed
and those are truthfully thethings that I feel like I missed
and those are truthfully thethings that I felt like the kids
were missing out on um becausewe weren't close to your family
or my family and being incolumbus I mean we weren't far,
but we were far enough that itmade that community really hard
to foster so especially umtrying to bring both sides
(38:32):
together and a place wherenobody's like, nobody's close to
here.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So they were all traveling.
You know, an hour, two hoursaway, to come meet us in
Columbus.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, so that got tricky to try to do those things
.
So, um, I'm glad I'm.
I'm grateful for the change ofpace, I'm grateful to continue
to keep the community in thespaces that I need it and, um,
being back's been fine for me,I'm glad to be here.
I love our house.
So I tell you that all the timeI love it every time something
(39:05):
new happens in the house.
I'm like man, I love our house,so I, by chance, at a farmer's
market we found the house wewere gonna buy and it wasn't on
the market and we were able tokind of facilitate that.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
To be honest, even if this house was on the market,
we wouldn't have looked at it.
It didn't fall into even thoughit's what we were looking for
in terms of potential.
It didn't fall into what wewere looking for as far as
finished product at the moment.
At that time and it also wefelt it was probably out of our
(39:42):
budget and I don't know justthere were a ton of reasons why
we figured like no, we can't buythis.
But for the fact that it wassomebody we knew.
I mean, like you said, itwasn't on the market.
We didn't have to rush theprocess.
They needed their own time tofind their own place to go and
move.
Nothing was packed on their end.
(40:05):
It was really impromptu forthem too, and so it was kind of
like, hey, while you're doing usthis solid, we're doing you
this solid.
It worked out for everybody,and the fact that we knew them
made it so much easier, like Idon't have to call their realtor
and their realtor give them amessage and then they get back
to them and get back to us youknow we would meet in person.
(40:27):
It's like, hey, I'll call themup real quick.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
You want to stop over and we can talk about this, or
you don't want to touch base onit.
It was just a really easyprocess and I think that they
reciprocally feel that love, soit was good all the way around.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
It's like an additional part of the family
now.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Right.
It worked out for both of usand provided them exactly what
they needed to, so we were gladthat it wrapped out that way for
the end of 2024.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, so, now that it's 2025, what are?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
you looking forward to?
Oh my gosh, I graduate thisyear.
Yeah, I'm done.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm feeling very done .
You've been with this one forhow long I don't know, you
mentioned going back to schoolagain, maybe.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Listen, I don't know.
I never know.
So that's what I'm most lookingforward to.
I'm sure 2025 is going to bringus a lot of really cool things,
but I will be done with thisdoctorate degree in May I
graduate, so I'm really lookingforward to closing that chapter.
I'm excited for you.
I'm proud of you, thanks.
I'm proud of the research I'vebeen able to do in this
dissertation that I've been ableto write.
(41:42):
It's near and dear to me, soI'm glad to finally close the
book, I guess, on that and getto experience the reward that
I've been chasing for years.
This is the end of my fourthyear, so it's kind of hard to
believe that that's all gone soquickly because it didn't feel
(42:03):
quick.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It's like doing time.
It looks like it's a lot whenyou look back.
I mean, it looks like a lotwhen you're looking forward.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
But at some point you're like man.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
That kind of went fast.
Yeah, a couple big hurdles leftto seal the deal and be done,
but I'm really looking forwardto the end.
But I'm proud of the processand what it's taken to get here
and the sacrifice on all of ourparts.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
So after this, then what?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh, who knows, I can't even see too far ahead of
me right now.
Like I'm so in it right now tocheck these boxes that I can't
even see.
Like I can't see anything evenin the second half of the year,
let alone the what comes nextfor me.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well, you know, I finally got settled in to, you
know, fuel hauling, right, and Ifeel like that's something I'm
going to be at for theforeseeable future.
I really I mean, it's a jobthat made me kind of give up on
thinking about other jobs.
That's big.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
That is big.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's big, a lot of people can say that I don't
think Right, I mean, I like it.
They're very supportive and thejob is, it's not very
challenging, but there's alwayssomething new coming along new
accounts, new this, new that,and it's rewarding.
So I like that.
So I've decided for 2025, sinceyou're graduating, no more
(43:34):
school, I'm going to take allthat time that you've been
taking and I'm going to investmore in the podcast, because
this is my baby, right, my babybeen with the babysitter.
I ain't been giving her no love.
No, it's cool.
But you know, I have been um,kind of thinking up some new
(43:55):
ideas for the podcast and thebusiness as a whole.
Um, and I'm going to try todevelop that for 2025 and beyond
.
Um, I bought some new equipment, which is cool.
So I got a soundboard.
Uh, that will make things awhole lot better when it comes
to recording over the phoneinterviews, because a little
(44:16):
behind the scenes peak, I wasrecording phone calls on my
phone and I would just put amicrophone up next to my phone
on speakerphone.
Turned out all right, you know.
But now with the soundboard, Ican, you know, hook it to
Bluetooth and everything shouldgo smoother.
Also, we can include otherpeople in on that, since I don't
(44:39):
have to take up an additionalmicrophone.
So you know that I'm excitedabout that.
Um, I'm excited that once theworkshop is, uh, all done, I'll
have like my own recording spaceand get into other aspects of
it, like you know, maybe I don'tknow maybe go do video
(45:02):
podcasting or get into thesocial media stuff that I'm not
really big into, like TikTok andshort videos.
I don't know how to, don't lookat me, nah, I don't really.
Basically, I'll be learning asI do it, but you know, just some
ideas.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you are an influencer, reach out to us on
stories at lockdowntolegacycomfor some pro tips.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
And merch.
That is something that's comingin 2025.
I'm going to have somemerchandise because I know we
got some loyal listeners, somededicated fans, and I would love
to have some merch for them,whether it be hats, hoodies, you
know, t-shirts, water bottles,whatever it is.
I'm going to try to get thatgoing, because that is something
that I thought about last yearand did not come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So if you are new here, this is probably a good
spot for us to talk about who weare and what we do.
So let's transition a littlebit from an update on our lives
to us.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about who you are and why
this is important and how thispodcast began and kind of the
history of it?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Sure, all right.
So of course my name is RemyJones, aka Jeremy Jones.
I am a formerly incarceratedindividual, having served 10
years in state prison in Ohio.
After getting out, I just kindof had this self-determination
(46:29):
and a plan best of all, to notcome back and to not allow all
of the doubt that the systemlikes to sow in us to win.
So everyone said how hard itwas going to be and all the
(46:49):
things that weren't possible.
And when they said what waspossible, I recognized that it
was all trying to condition meto aim low and just survive and
not go back, and I didn't likethat.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
So you know, I made this little notebook full of
goals that were justostentatious and extreme and I
didn't let anybody tell me, no,that's not possible.
And so I started getting to itand there were many hiccups
along the way and there are manypeople who continue to say, no,
(47:27):
that's not possible.
But I found me a good partnerin DJ and together we are
blazing a trail.
So I'm a truck driver, I'vesold cars that's pretty much the
only two professions that I'vehad since release almost seven
years ago.
But I'm also a mentor andconsultant and podcast
(47:51):
personality consultant andpodcast personality and my hope
is that everything I do not juston this podcast, not just in
mentoring or consulting, but mylife in general is an example
and a testament to what canhappen.
And it's not just a fluke.
It's not just a one-offexperience that I made it out,
(48:16):
luke.
It's not just a one-offexperience that I made it out,
but it is actually possible moreoften than not that you can not
only survive without going backto prison, but you can actually
thrive.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Right, absolutely.
I am Debbie Jones and, as youmight have guessed, we are a
husband and wife team.
Hopefully you would haveguessed that at this point in
the podcast, but I don't knowwhat I am.
I'm a lot of things and nothingall at once.
(48:48):
I don't know Right now.
I'm finishing up a PhD ineducational policy.
My research focuses on the livedexperiences of black educators
in states with legislation thatbans, bars or prohibits the
discussion of race in theclassroom.
That sounds very practiced.
It is.
(49:08):
It is my statement, it's thething I have to say about it.
So my little abstract, Isuppose.
But in addition to that, I thinkthat my professional career has
been dedicated similarly tofighting injustice, and so what
drew you and I together?
A lot of things drew ustogether, but what drew us
(49:31):
together in this line of work isthat we see that the criminal
legal system is far from just inmost ways, and fighting
injustice is a lot of what I doin my professional line of work
in terms of finding equity, andyou and I talked a lot about
(49:54):
preventative measures to keeppeople from going to prison, but
we also talked about how thereisn't a lot of post-ventative
measures.
When people come home.
There isn't a way to transition, and so we were hoping to
create something that spoke toboth ends of that spectrum and
everything that happens inbetween you from a standpoint of
lived experience and havinggone through it from start to
(50:16):
finish, but me from the angle ofbeing able to bring the policy
lens into that and the behindthe curtain a little bit of the
why things are written the waythey are to continue to keep
people oppressed in specificways.
So the podcast started inOctober of 2022.
All the way back to our firstepisode.
(50:37):
It's Lonely at the Bottom, butprior to that it took a little
bit of convincing right.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So, of course, like everythingelse in my life, dj right here
is my biggest supporter andmotivator and she was like hey,
that thing you talked about,like you should do it.
But I have a friend namedShakima who not too long after I
got out, you know, we werehaving all these deep
conversations and she was like,bro, like you should start a
(51:04):
podcast.
And at the time I didn't evenknow what a podcast was.
But she was like man, you couldstart one up, like, and it
costs next to nothing.
And so it kind of went in oneear and out the other, but she
did not give up on that idea.
And then it was justhappenstantial that Debbie also
was like hey, you mentioned thisthing before and I think we
(51:26):
should do that.
And I was like, eh, okay, well,now the pressure's on right.
So here we are and I'm gladthat people saw that and
wouldn't let it go.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, and the podcast has kind of evolved over time.
It evolved before we started.
Right.
We had several concepts come upbefore we recorded that first
one in October of 2022.
October 13th was our firstrelease date and our anniversary
of this podcast, but it wentstrong for a year and a half,
bringing us into what March,april-ish of 2024.
(52:01):
At that point, we were justdoing a lot of life and it was
right before our house going onthe market in June and we had to
.
Just something had to giveright, and it's not a good
excuse for stepping away fromour fans for so long or from
people who really enjoylistening to this podcast on a
(52:22):
weekly basis.
So you know, we're settledagain.
We're back in our own space andwe have our recording equipment
up.
You've upgraded some equipment,so we're ready to roll.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
We're ready to roll.
We're bringing it to you thereal son, if y'all remember that
from the intro from last season.
So, yeah, I'm here, I'm readyand I look forward to sharing
many stories and experienceswith you guys.
As always, you guys know theemail stories at Lockdown to
Legacy.
(52:54):
There's also the Lockdown toLegacy podcast on Facebook, so
please give your feedback, giveyour ideas, if there's something
you want to hear about.
You know if we got theknowledge, you know I'm all for
it, and not only us.
But we do bring incarceratedindividuals on the show and
other formerly incarceratedindividuals and even supporters
(53:17):
of them, people who were intheir corner during that
experience.
So if you have those questionsand we can get them answered, by
any means, please share those.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
We have Remy's done a really good job getting a great
lineup for you in terms ofinterviews for season two.
So we've got some really goodvoices some are old to the
podcast.
If you want to scroll backthrough our catalog, re-listen
to some things as you aregetting ready to hear lockdown
to legacy weekly again, um,we've done episodes just you and
I talking about differentaspects of prison, but we've
(53:51):
also done a lot of interviews.
Um, podcast concept kind ofevolved and we started bringing
Warren in.
Um started off justhappenstance, but then everybody
loved Warren so we had to bringhim in more.
You want to talk about him andyour conversations?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Uh.
So first, um, warren, we stillwill have uh regularly for
Warren's Wisdom.
We will also still have Wisefor Wise's World.
If you guys haven't checked outthose episodes, feel free to
look back through the catalog.
We are thinking we're going tochange the structure of those
episodes to make them a littlebit more formal, because really
(54:29):
they were just conversationswith guys I love and we have
good, good, deep conversations.
But also I wanted to bring backthat element of the Summer
Legacy Series.
So we're going to still do someof those type interviews to
show you guys the successes andyou know some of the not so
(54:52):
successful people who came homeand want to share their
experiences.
So, um, yeah, you know we'regoing to try to figure out that
good balance to not be a bighodgepodge kind of, as we were
as we were developing lastseason, but to not just forego
some of those elements that webrought in that I feel like were
(55:13):
good and that you guysexpressed, that you liked.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, I think it was important to us.
We heard some feedback like notabout I guess it wasn't toxic
positivity, but about justshowcasing the successes of
folks.
I do think folks need to hearand see that because we don't
see enough of thatpost-incarceration, see enough
of that post-incarceration.
But also we need to ground itin reality and say sometimes it
(55:39):
isn't successful the first timehome, or sometimes it isn't
successful in the endeavorsyou're taking on and you have to
change course, and so we'regoing to try to bring in some
more of those types of storiesso that you can continue to see
the persistence of everybodyinvolved in this.
So it was a great time away forus to regroup, to think through
the elements that we wanted tokeep and how the structure
(56:01):
needed to move forward, andwe're really excited to bring
you season two of the Lockdownto Legacy podcast.
Any other pieces on the podcastitself.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
We're going to bring you guys that same old
down-to-earth, real, sometimesfunny, sometimes serious, maybe
occasionally even sad, but we'regoing to try to be that.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Source, that source of justunfiltered experience of the 360
(56:34):
, experience of being involvedwith the criminal legal system.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
Well, now that we have given an update on our
lives, given an update on thepodcast, are you all right if I
ask you a couple of closingquestions?
Oh, sure, you like being put onthe spot.
I didn't check these ahead oftime.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
I'm ready, baby.
I stay ready.
So I got to get ready.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
You talked about this just a little bit ago.
In terms of it's your.
We're coming up on your seventhanniversary of being home and,
as you shared just a minute ago,you were in for 10 years.
So we're getting closer to thetime home post-incarceration,
equaling the time in.
I'm curious from yourperspective now how often are
(57:19):
you still thinking about prison?
Speaker 1 (57:25):
I still think about prison all the time.
I mean, that was a hugeexperience for me, especially
being that when I went to prisonI was 19 years old and so by
the time I got out, I had spenta third of my life in prison.
You know so, unfortunately,prison is a huge part of my life
(57:47):
experience, you know so, untilI get to that point where it's
just a drop in the pond.
It's really a big part, andit's always something that I'm
comparing to.
Something I did in prison,somebody I met in prison, a
conversation I had in prison,you know whatever, but mostly
(58:08):
when I think about prison, Ithink about the people I met in
prison.
You know, I left a lot of peoplebehind when I came home, and my
goal is to not leave thembehind.
You know, uh, I admit that whenI was in there, I was that type
of person that people would gohome and they would try to give
me their contact information.
(58:28):
I would turn them down.
I'm like, nah, I'm cool bro.
Like yeah, we were cool, butlike I'm not going to call.
You're not going to call, we'renot.
You know.
But I did hold on to some ofthose relationships, like Warren
, like Wise, and you know someof my other friends.
I have a few other friends thatare in there, and so they are
missed.
You know they are missedespecially as I.
(58:51):
You know they are missedespecially as I um have all
these new experiences that I tryto communicate to them.
I try to you know, the wholemodel of this thing is to let
people know like, hey, I did it,you can do it, and so I try to
keep giving them new informationso that they don't have to try
(59:13):
to plan based off of oldinformation or one-sided
information, right?
So I think about prison all thetime, unfortunately and
fortunately.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
You visited a lot of prison, I think, in the last few
years, visiting people likeWarren and other friends that
are currently inside.
Does it ever conjure upanything from you being the
person that's coming into theprison now, not the person
receiving visitors?
Speaker 1 (59:44):
No, I do know the importance of what I'm doing
when I go into a prison to visitsomebody.
So I try not to make it tooheavy but I try not to take it
too lightheartedly to where it'sfelt like it's not significant
Gotcha.
It does feel weird sometimes.
(01:00:05):
Some of the prisons that I'vegone to were prisons that I've
been in.
So I've run into COs that Iknew.
I've run into administrators Iknew and they kind of give you
that second look like I know youfrom somewhere.
You know you go through thespiel like, oh yeah, I used to
be in here and they're like, oh,when did you get out?
And et cetera.
(01:00:25):
But it's surprising how you getto see a whole different side
of that person, like CEOs andadministrators.
I've met the um, one of theunit managers that was always
kind of a hard ass, one of theCEOs that was kind of always
hard ass, and they're like, oh,what you been up to since you've
been out?
(01:00:45):
Obviously if you're coming backin here you must be doing
something good.
You know you're not getting introuble and then so I'll give
them a quick.
You know you're not getting introuble and then so I'll give
them a quick, you know elevatorpitch of my story and they're
like, well, damn, um, they'rereally really happy to hear that
(01:01:11):
and that is cool yeah.
Um and oh, I had another one foryou.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I'm going to come up with it, mm-hmm, okay, okay, so
now that it's going on yearseven, what is like?
I know you have a lot of thingsleft that you want to do.
You haven't accomplished all ofit.
In seven years.
You've accomplished a lot, butwhat's like the next thing for
you that you want to accomplish,the next thing for you that you
(01:01:35):
want to accomplish, like athing that you dreamed of while
in prison, that you want toactualize now, seven years home?
Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Foreign travel.
You know other countries.
Yeah, we've done that andthat's been awesome.
That was a big thing becausethere is a lot of misinformation
about that being a felon.
People are like, oh, you can'tget your passport, you can't
leave the country and this andthat, which is not true, like
even when you're on supervisionyou're allowed to, which I don't
know who said you can't or why,but it is very common
(01:02:03):
misinformation that's out therebeing spread.
So that was a big thing.
I want to get a pardon.
That's my thing, man.
I want to get a pardon.
That's my thing, man.
I've managed to overcome havingto tell people about my past,
not saying I haven't had to tellthem, but to where I don't
(01:02:23):
really care.
I freely, as you see on thisshow, I tell people and share my
experience, so it hasn't reallystopped me from gaining
employment or housing or some ofthese other things that are
common barriers when you have acriminal past.
(01:02:44):
But I'm at that point now whereit's like at for a very long
time to where, if I didn't tellyou about my past, you wouldn't
be able to ascertain that thatis something that I have with me
.
I don't live to where it lookslike I have a past.
(01:03:07):
I don't have any type ofthoughts that recidivism is ever
going to be a possibility forme, so really, the only reason
why I hold on to it is to helpother people, to teach other
people.
So I found out that there aresome resources and programs out
there that will help you geteither an expungement or a
(01:03:31):
pardon full pardon.
So when my time is up, that'swhat I want to do.
There is a time limit for howlong you've been out or how long
you've been off supervision, sothat's my next move.
Okay, full pardon.
Baby, I'm inviting all thelisteners.
So, whatever we're at, howevermany listeners we have at that
(01:03:53):
time, best believe we all comeinto the courthouse deep.
I want all the like SouthernBaptist preachers out front on
the megaphones and we gonna takeit to the White House and we
gonna take it to ConstitutionHall.
Ha ha, ha.
(01:04:14):
Like.
I want y'all to show up andshow out man, because that's
going to be huge for me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
You haven't even had any caffeine today.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
This is just.
I'm ready to take a nap, justyou.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
My last piece.
I'm looking forward to it, bythe way, but we did this
exercise last year, so I'll giveyou a second to think about it
and I'll do mine first, but Iwant you to think about your
word for 2025.
I don't know if you rememberwhat your 2024 word was.
I don't actually, yeah, we did.
I'm sure you could go back onthe podcast I think we did it as
(01:04:49):
part of this podcast too so youcan go back to the episode and
figure out what your word wasand how you accomplished it or
didn't.
It's been a practice of mine toidentify a word for the year
that I want it to be for me,whether that's who I want to be
or whether I want the year tolook like for me and I've got a
really good one this year.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
All right, so you're going to start us off.
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I am my word for 2025 , and I hope it's not intended
to sound superficial, so I needyou to look at the depth of the
word rather than it at itssurface my 2025 year word is
iconic Mm, mm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
So are you going to share your depth or are you just
going to let people do theirown?
Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Well, I already talked about my graduation.
That's really big for me.
I don't intend to get anotherdoctorate, right.
So it's iconic for me.
I will join the 2% of blackwomen with a doctorate degree
(01:05:59):
and that's very cool to me, um.
But it's iconic in a lot ofother ways too.
We are spending our very firstfull year in our forever home.
Um, I started a new job towardsthe end of 2024 and so I will
be coming up on a first fullyear and they're like so it's.
It's iconic because it's the,it's the first of a lot of
things and it's the finality ofothers that have been really
integral to who I am the lastfour years.
(01:06:21):
So I think post-pandemic, right, we can go back to 2020 and
realize what happened to theworld in that year and the
following year, and now we'recoming out of that a bit
globally, across countries, andthe impacts are still there, but
(01:06:43):
the way we interact hascompletely changed.
Yeah, for sure, and so iconic ohtonic, oh, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
So, um, I do know that in 2018, when I first came
home, I had a one word thatsummed up my life, and that one
word was sacrifice, um.
And then 2019, 2020, 2021, um,it was growth, you know um, 2022
, 2023.
I don't really remember whatthey were, but I do know that,
(01:07:25):
uh, I kind of switched it up alittle bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I think it was hustle because that's when the podcast
started.
It's when you were doing a lotof the business work and getting
your speaking organization offthe ground, so it might have
been hustle.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Maybe it was a hustle , but I guess if I had to come
up with one for 2025, what wouldI say?
That is, I can't saycontentment.
I mean because in some ways Iam.
I will say that in 2025, Iwould say self-care, because, as
(01:08:06):
much as I like to talk abouthow I sacrificed and I was so
growth-focused and all thisother things, it was all about
the hustle.
Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Yeah, you bad at it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I never wanted to take care of myself.
Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Yeah, you bad at self-care.
Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
So that's what I want to say for 2025 is self-care.
Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
All right, Now that is also on a recorded thing.
It's binding Binding legally,I'm sure.
Sure, I don't know about allthat all right, y'all heard it
well, I think that's a great wayto bring us back in, uh, bring
our listeners up to date so theycan be ready for some content
when we break into the seasonnext week.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Any parting words, mr jones um, my parting words are
thank you to everybody who umstuck by us.
You know, I still watch thestatistics for the podcast and
there are people still listening, even though we haven't
recorded in six months.
So thank you very much to allof you guys.
(01:09:10):
And now that we're back, youknow, please continue to support
us.
You know, continue to share thepodcast when the merchandise
drops.
You know, please hit me up.
I'll have it.
You know, I'll let you guysknow where you can get it.
But yeah, that's all I reallygot to say is thank you for your
support.
Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Sounds good to me.
We'll see you next week, nextweek.
Peace Bye, thank you.
(01:10:08):
You can reach out to us withany feedback, questions,
comments or share the love byemailing stories at
lockdown2legacycom.
Stories at lockdown2legacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at
lockdown2legacy and on Facebookat the Lockdown to Legacy
(01:10:32):
podcast.
Please don't forget to rate,review and subscribe.
No-transcript.
Hey everybody, welcome back to season two of
Lockdown to Legacy.
I'm your host, Remy Jones, andfrom time to time I will be
joined by my co-host, dj, whojust so happens to also be my
awesome sauce wife.
I also have a couple of closefriends that are still
incarcerated who will be regularcontributors, and together we
will bring you the real ondealing with the criminal
(00:35):
justice system from multipleangles.
A lot of what we share will bereal experiences from both
currently and formerlyincarcerated people like myself,
along with current events thataffect those impacted by the
legal system.
So thank you for tapping in,thank you for sticking with us
from season one.
Now let's get to it.
Hey everybody, welcome back toseason two of the Lockdown to
(01:10):
Legacy podcast.
I am your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
And I am your co-host , Debbie Jones.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And together we're about to bring you the real on
this prison stuff now.
Um, you know we try to coverthe 360, uh, incarceration
experience or even just thelegal um, criminal justice
system experience.
But don't worry, I'll edit thatout Anyway, uh, I'm excited to
be back.
(01:41):
How about you?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, it's good to be back.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, yeah, you guys know we did some half-assed
announcements saying that wewere going to go on hiatus and
we thought it was going to bebrief, just to be real.
But you know, life got tolifin' so I guess first we could
tell that story about how abrief hiatus turned into what
(02:08):
six months.
Yeah, that was aggressive.
So I guess, to start, I mean,we can just jump right in.
Sure, we were going to move toDC, I believe we not to DC, to
Maryland, to be close to DC.
We're going to move to DC, Ibelieve we not to DC, to
Maryland, to be close to DC.
(02:28):
I believe we told you guysabout that and the experience of
going house hunting andeverything down there.
Well, you know, unfortunatelyUncle Bob died and that kind of
put things in a new perspective,you know, a reframe for us, and
so we decided we wanted to becloser to home.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
And by home we meant moving out to the boonies, away
from Columbus, to be closer tofamily.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Ohio.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Ohio, yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, we kind ofkicked around the idea and then
all of a sudden we were likelet's do it.
Like it literally was likelet's do it.
And then three days later wewere trying to get our house
ready to be listed.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So poor planning on us.
We can't be mad about how itplayed out from there, but it
all turned out for the best,yeah.
And so we're going to kind ofcover and chronicle the
adventures that ensued afterthat in this episode.
So, first up, we tried to getthe house ready to sell.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Right, and that was in June.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
That was in June and I'm talking about big heavy
lifts.
I had a lot of open-ended houseprojects.
We had great, great supportfrom the family.
People came over and washelping me build a fire pit, my
father-in-law was helping mebuild a front porch, all these
things.
And then the realtor came andwas like hey, we're going to
(03:52):
want to list even sooner thanyou guys thought.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Right Ahead of the July 4th holiday.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, and they were like nah nah X, that we want to
get it on as soon as possiblebecause the school year is
coming up.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So we were like oh X, that we want to get it on as
soon as possible because theschool year is coming up, right?
So we were like, oh crap.
Next thing, you know, we werehalfway through building a front
porch on our house and we hadto dig up all the posts and put,
mulch down, make it look likeit never happened.
It was pretty, pretty intense.
We resurfaced our driveway, wewere painting inside, we were,
(04:28):
yeah, everything really.
I mean I burned through some uhvacation time at work.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I was just going to say it took a lot of significant
time off to just to um be thereon days you couldn't, and a lot
of things to get it ready andget it on the market.
But then, in addition to that,we had to make a big ask.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So shout out to my parents for letting us live with
them for what we thought wasgoing to just be for the
viewings and ended up being likefour months, right, right, and
you know that kind of has, likeit's like stigma, like oh, you
got to move back in with thein-laws or with the parents and
stuff.
So big shout out to thembecause living with them,
especially being, as it was,unplanned to live with them that
(05:16):
long, it really turned out tobe a great experience yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I mean they took on their four grandkids in a
full-time capacity and the twoof us.
So I mean, for two retirees itwas a big life change and they
were very selfless in thatprocess.
So we thought we would justhave showings for a week, a
(05:41):
weekend.
That's what the market and ourrealtors told us and we thought
to believe and that's not thereality of what happened.
And by the time our housefinally got into contract which
I'm sure you'll talk about itwas time for school to start and
we didn't want our kids tostart school and then have to
change schools a month and ahalf in to the school year.
(06:06):
So we decided it was best forus to continue to stay with my
mom and dad while our housetransition fully took place.
It was a lot.
I don't know where you want togo from there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I mean there's so many ways to go from there Right
.
I guess, to start, we'll startwith the selling process.
As I mentioned before, we hadreached out to the people who
helped us buy the house.
We had a good experience.
So we were like, hey, let'sreach out to them.
We kept in contact.
This should be easy.
Then we also had a buying agentup here where we currently live
(06:46):
to help us find a new house.
So two realtors and then we hadthem communicating with each
other so that everybody was onthe same page and everybody on
board.
Plus, we shopped some otherrealtors.
Everybody was like, man, thishouse is awesome, it's going to
sell within like four to sevendays.
So we were like, oh, it's goingto sell within like four to
seven days.
So we were like, oh, it's goingto be a cakewalk, we're going
(07:07):
to be, you know.
And then up here the real estatemarket moves a little slower.
So we were anticipating that wewould just have our way with a
choice of house.
And then came the hiccups.
So the first hiccup was, withinlike a day or two of us listing
(07:29):
our house for sale, going liveon the market, the feds made an
announcement that they werepotentially going to lower
interest rates In the fall.
Right?
So in the fall, you would thinkthat that would not affect us
at all.
But what happened was ouranticipation of selling within a
(07:50):
week turned into a sellingafter 52 days.
Right, we had a like what thehell?
Moment with our realtors.
So if they are listening,please forgive my tone, but I
was like dude, what the heck?
What's our game plan?
(08:11):
Why isn't this house selling?
Everybody that came to see thehouse said the same thing oh,
this is the best house we'veseen, out of all the ones we've
seen.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So far Everybody loved it.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
But we're not going to make an offer.
What?
Why the fuck did you even come?
Excuse my language, sorry.
Um, people were like, hey, wedon't, we don't know if we want
a split level.
You know, that was a big excuseand my thing was it says it's a
split level in the in the ad,um.
But you know, for whateverreason, um, in the first 30 days
(08:45):
we had like nine viewingsshowings, um, which was pretty
low.
That's pretty low, um, andhence why, you know, we can't
just move back in because it'snot selling, so we have to keep
the show ready back in becauseit's not selling, so we have to
(09:07):
keep the show ready.
So now we're living with myin-laws for a month, for two
months, and that turned out tobe a four and a half month
ordeal.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, finally the house went into contract.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
It did.
We had to discount it, whichbroke my heart.
I'm always the money consciousperson and I was like I want to
drive a hard bargain.
But you know, we just had torelent and in the end we're
happy with it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I think what, without having to get into all
of the details of all of thethings um, we had made an offer
on a house that we really likedand the contingency was we had
to be within contract within aspecific number of days, and we
just couldn't meet that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Oh no, that's one detail we got to say.
They said we had to be incontract, our house had to be
sold within 10 days.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We thought, eh, 10 days, no problem, it didn't work
out.
Like Remy said, we were on themarket for 52 days.
Yeah, we thought 10 days, noproblem, it didn't work out.
Like Remy said, we were on themarket for 52 days, so it just
it didn't work.
And but I think the silverlining of that is, in retrospect
, we want out bigger in thehouse we currently are in.
Do you want me to talk aboutthat a little bit in that
(10:25):
process?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Well, sure, I mean, there is the other house, though
, which I thought was amazing,she's downplaying it.
I thought at the time thatthere was no way we were going
to find a better house for that.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, I was not as in love with it as my husband was,
but-.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
But she put it on a good front and made me feel like
she was all in.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I wasn't for you.
It seemed to check all of theboxes for you.
Um well, I mean, it was, it wasgood it just it didn't check
all of the boxes for me.
I imagined, if we were movingup here, that our yard was going
to be bigger.
Uh, it was going to be more,like my childhood experience,
and so that house was still in aneighborhood and so we still
(11:06):
had pretty close neighbors,things like that.
So it was, the house was great.
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I wasn't in love with the land, which you knew, so
yeah, so the land was an acreand a quarter, I don't remember.
So I mean, that's, that's acome up from our quarter acre
lot at our last house, which wasgreat for me, I don't remember,
but mainly for me, it was thefact that the house had been
(11:33):
completely redone.
It was beautiful, centralfireplace, you know, stone, all
this stuff, and it set up on abig hill.
(11:54):
And what I had found out wasthat this house used to belong
to the head prosecutor of thecounty, I think I was told.
And so, you know, I didn't evengo in front, man, I was ego
tripping, I'm like, oh, look atme with all these felonies about
to move in a prosecutor's house.
So I probably was willing tooverreach for that alone.
(12:19):
But you know, you never hear metalk about God.
But something was looking outfor us.
The universe had other thingslined up for us, you know, and
so it fell through.
Our 10 days expired and we werelike, hey, sorry, guys, we need
an extension.
(12:40):
And they said, well, we askedfor like 10 days or 11 days, I
think so, yeah, and they werelike, no, you can have, you know
, we want it business days.
They were like, no, you gotstraight seven days and we were
like I don't know if that'sgoing to work and we don't want
to waste your time, so you knowwe'll walk.
And like the next day, ourrealtor was like like yo, they
(13:04):
reached out to us overnight andthey were like no, no, we want
to make this work yeah we'llgive you five thousand dollars
if you come through.
And we were like I got excitedbecause I like to negotiate.
I was like I knew we shouldhave leaned on him and gave him
the squeeze, but we we turnedhim down.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, cause at that point it was too much stress.
Right, like I was, I as aperson with an anxiety disorder
I was over it.
It wasn't a house I loved.
I wasn't willing to continue todraw out something that I felt
was inevitable, which was thatit wasn't going to come together
, and so the stress of that wasreally difficult for me,
particularly because you're notallowed to answer your phone
(13:47):
during the day.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, so I did leave the bulk of this whole
experience on you.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I had to field the calls with the banks and the
realtors and the back and forth.
My phone ringing caused meanxiety because I didn't know
who it was going to be and whatI was going to have to figure
out, because I couldn't get ahold of you to do it.
I just had to make all thesegames.
It was a really difficult timefor me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
And the bank side of it was a whole other ordeal that
we probably won't get into.
We're not going to get into it,but just know that it was petty
and nonsensical.
It was a lot.
It was a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Getting approved.
If you've gotten approved for ahouse loan in recent years,
it's kind of like going to theB&B now where you've got to
bring your soul in a jar to getyour driver's license renewed.
That's how getting a loan feels, regardless of your incomes.
It's very invasive.
I think is a good word for it.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I mean, it's demeaning too.
That's how it felt for me,because the one thing I will say
on the subject is that we havemultiple streams of income and
it's all documented W-2s.
Whatever was needed, we had it.
And they were like no, we can'tuse these.
We have no good reason why wecan't.
(15:09):
We're just going to use yourmain job.
And then they were like, afterexcluding all of this income,
we're going to say you're 1%over on the debt to income ratio
.
And we're like no, we're not.
And then they then they wereeven like well, if you could pay
this and this off, so we soldour motorcycles, which was sad,
(15:30):
and, um, you know, we paid someother stuff off.
And then they were like well,where's this money coming from
that you're paying this stuffoff with?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
and we're like that income you wouldn't include so
it was literally with money youtold me doesn't count.
So I don't know what you like,because then we had to prove how
we paid it off and I was likehere's my paycheck and here's
where I paid it off from thisother job that you said doesn't
(15:56):
count so, even selling themotorcycles, we sold the
motorcycles.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Like when I sold mine , the guy met me at the bank.
We walked in, paid the peopleand got the lien release and all
that, and they were like, well,this money didn't come from one
of your accounts, you have toprove where it came from.
And I'm like I just told you,but anyway, that was that.
But the house fell through andI thought it was the end of the
(16:24):
world because I was like, man,we're not going to find another
house like that.
I really wanted it.
It did not check off all thethings.
Like you said, I was real bigon having like a man space, but
it was a ranch, it wasimmaculately done, it had more
land, it had a three-car garage.
(16:45):
We were like, ah, this is great.
But you know, hey, I waswilling to concede certain stuff
in order to have that.
It fell through and while I wasmoping, the most immaculate
thing, the most amazing thing,happened to you.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I went to the farmer's market is what happened
?
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, farmer's market saved our lives.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I was actually at the library in our tiny town here
and I was working on mydissertation, which is another
topic.
But I was tired, I was ready totake a break and I was like, oh
, it's Saturday, farmer'smarket's happening.
I should stop by see if there'sanybody I know still working at
the farmer's market.
We really love like freshproduce, we love local,
(17:33):
supporting local, those types ofthings.
I was like I'm going to checkin at the farmer's market and a
family friend was there who Ihad recently seen at the 4th of
July parade here in our town andI had told him that we were
looking at moving back.
So I saw him again at thefarmer's market and he said, hey
, you still thinking of movingback here?
(17:53):
And I said, yeah, we just hadthis house fall through or
trying, but we can't get ourhouse to sell, we can't get our
uh, you know, the house, a houseup here we're we're kind of in
a pickle.
And he said to me well, I'veactually been looking at
downsizing.
Would you like to come andcheck out my house?
And I jokingly said back to himlike well, I got a lot of kids.
Is it going to fit my kids?
And he was like yes, itabsolutely will.
(18:15):
So very next day, you and Icame over to see it and as of
now, we are sitting in themaster bedroom of that house
recording this podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, and just as a quick summary of what this house
is, we talked about how Iwanted a man space and of course
, we need a space for our kidsand we want it land.
So what is this?
A log cabin with a bunch ofland.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
In a log cabin.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And a workshop.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, a big workshop, that is all yours.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
All mine.
You hear that it's on recordnow.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I said it on a recorded line, it was just a
handshake deal before, but nowit's on record.
Yeah, I don't just do podcastcount as official.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
It counts.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Records.
I got a million fans, at leastin my mind and they're all going
to show up to court to testify.
Yeah, this house for me is alegacy, right.
Like this is a house that wecan pass on to our kids.
It has extra spaces that werepreviously used.
(19:21):
Like there's a space above thetwo-car garage.
Like that whole two cardetached garage used to be an
apartment while they werebuilding the house itself, and
so it was important to you and Ito have somewhere for our
parents in case they needed aspace.
So we wanted like an in-lawsuite, just in case we needed to
(19:42):
have our parents on site tohelp take care of them, and it
kind of checks off that box,which was really big to us both.
We have a lot of land for ourkids to grow and explore, and
you've got a space and it reallyworked out in a way that was
(20:06):
unforeseen, couldn't have evendreamed of it, and because it
was a family friend working withus, they didn't care when our
house sold, so it immediatelytook the pressure off of like
well, you have to be in contractby this date, because they were
just like eh, let us know,we'll start looking around and
(20:27):
making some plans and we'll takethis casually and we continue
to have a really greatrelationship now.
We hang out, we check in witheach other.
Pretty frequently you call tojust say the things that look
cool.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I go out in that workshop and I'm like man,
this is amazing.
And the thing is that I oftenminimalize how far I've come
after prison.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And so, as you see, debbie, we'll, we'll attest to
it.
So I've had a pretty good runcompared to, I guess, what the
statistics say about, you know,recidivism and stuff and job
placement and stuff like that,and I've done my best to help
(21:17):
others and somehow I stillbecause I had this grand book of
goals and you know, a lot ofthem kind of just got distracted
with new goals and stuff.
So I kind of felt like man, Ireally ain't done much, you know
.
I mean I went to college.
That was a big accomplishment.
Then I dropped out of collegeand you know, I kind of was hard
(21:38):
on myself about that.
But it wasn't until we movedinto this house that I really
felt like man, like okay, we'redoing something here.
And, of course, debbie's, likeI'm proud of you because you did
this and I'm like, nah, becauseyou know I believe I would have
accomplished a lot, but Ibelieve I would not have
(22:00):
accomplished this without you.
So this is an us achievementand it, you know, is both of our
goals to do this.
But you mentioned that this initself is a legacy thing.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It is.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And that is what I really started to see, like
making plans to turn the garage,the two car detached, into an
apartment for parents, forretirement and stuff.
You know, like, okay, like thisisn't just a me goal, like this
is really impacting otherpeople's lives in major ways, um
, to see what it's done for ourkids already and we've only been
(22:36):
in this house a few months it'slike, you know, it's amazing.
And so now I'm starting to see,like, um, so these goals didn't
happen, but this is somethingthat's not a drop in the bucket,
it's not something to besneezed at and disregarded, you
know, um, so I really feel, like, you know, as I approach my
(23:00):
seventh year out, that's right,um, you know, coming up in March
, like this is huge.
What, oh yeah, it is May, lookat that Been out so long I don't
even remember.
I can still tell you my prisonnumber, though.
But give it another few years,it'll be good, all right, but
(23:26):
anyway, this house, it's ajourney.
We moved in and it wasn't likethe move-in show house.
I mean, we had some projects onthe books, yeah.
But at first I thought, man, itneeds some work, it needs some
(23:49):
work, it needs some work.
And now, as you know, like Isaid, we've been here a few
months and I've gotten a fewprojects under my belt.
We just plowed our driveway,which is ridiculously long now,
for the first time, and it wasan experience, yeah, but it's
like creating instant memories.
You know like everything, everyproject we do, every you know
(24:11):
thing we do outside.
It's like an experience and it'sreally like putting our stamp
on this place yeah you know,it's not just like, oh, we moved
in the house and now we livedhere.
It's like, oh, we moved in thishouse and we're making it ours,
beyond just simple decorationsand stuff that we put in it.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, and this forever home that we now have is
(24:57):
when so many folks our age arestill trying to buy their first
house, is we very muchacknowledge where that is for us
but hopefully stands as atestament as to what is possible
, even you know, in spite ofthings like felonies and a
10-year prison record, even inspite of significant student
loan debt.
I'm looking at myself, not atyou, and now I think people are
like, oh no, I've got too muchin student loans, I can't afford
to buy a house, which is, yeah,I get it.
I do have significant studentloan debt because of a system
(25:21):
that is broken, um, regardinghow we counsel students in terms
of taking on collegeexperiences.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
And credit card debt let's not forget that and credit
card debt, All kinds of thingsright Because they're quick to
give you a student credit card.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Listen, that's another podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
That's somebody else's, but we'd love to be
guests, right.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
If you have that space, write to stories at
lockdowntolegacycom and we willget in touch.
But all of that to say we'rereally happy.
We got our keys in the middleof November, had a really great
move-in experience, hired thesame folks who helped move us
out.
We have we tirelessly cleanedand getting the space ready.
(26:05):
We've been working on someprojects, some small things,
getting ourselves ready for thespring and the bigger things we
need to tackle.
But the thought that this is itfor us in terms of a house,
right, and knowing that,whatever happens, this gets
Ivan's already claimed it rightno matter what happens to us,
(26:26):
our children get to make thedecisions as to what happens
with this space next is a Idon't know.
It's a feeling of pride that Ididn't think that I was going to
feel.
Um, so it's a very differentexperience than moving to the
Maryland metropolis.
It's a very different, uhexperience than the things we
thought it was going to be,which was buying a bigger house
(26:47):
in the Columbus area, going toMaryland.
None of our original dreamsnecessarily revolved around
being out in a slower pace oflife, but I don't have any
regrets.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (27:08):
No, not at all.
Um, I you know, as we talkabout legacies, I think it's
great Um, how our kids love thishouse.
Um, like our, our youngest,raylan.
She named the house.
Um, you just heard oursix-year-old son has claimed the
(27:29):
house, you know so, whenactually he said he's never
moving out.
So not only has he claimed it,he's like you know, just to
solidify that I'm not leaving.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, and his statement to us was when he told
us that he was going to keepthe house.
He was like I was like, oh, youwant to live here.
And he was like, well, somebodyhas to take care of grandma and
grandpa.
And when he means grandma andgrandpa, he means my grandma and
grandpa, so hisgreat-grandparents.
So he's acknowledging that wewill have passed on.
He's acknowledging that hisgrandparents will pass on, but
(28:06):
don't worry, great-grandma andgrandpa will still be around the
corner and need somebody totake care of them.
It made me laugh so much.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, and in addition , I got bonus kids and to have
them, we did Christmas alltogether this year and that was
a great experience to haveeveryone here and like the look
on their faces when they seen itfor the first time, not
including the little barn outfront that needs torn down.
(28:36):
But once we got past that andthey saw it open up and they're
like wow, like this is the house.
Well, they didn't even realize.
Like all the land was ours, sowe had to explain to that.
You know, we went on an ATVtour around the property and
they're like oh my gosh, andthat's really cool to change the
perspectives of the kids andwhat is possible.
(29:02):
Like for the majority of theirlives they lived in small houses
or apartments.
So I always talk to my kidsabout my goals and try to
explain along the way so thatthey don't think it happened
overnight and it was easy, Likethis is a labor of love, you
know, and it's all yours one day.
You know, you and your siblings, so that was really cool and to
(29:26):
see how they grow in the space.
You know, at first they justsaw oh, I get my own room, you
know.
Or uh, oh, look how big my roomis, or you know, oh look, I
have space for my cars andtracks and you know stuff.
But it seems like every daysomething else comes up where
(29:47):
they're like oh okay, you know,it's small stuff and it really
matters to me too.
But like building a fire in ourwood-burning stove like the
first time I did that I was likeshit, fucking cowboy out here.
You know I'm uh yeah, I'm rightaround, I'm walking around in
my work, cowboy boots and stuff.
I'm just feeling myself, butit's like that's not something
(30:13):
we would have done in WestColumbus.
So for me that's kind of a bigdeal, Collecting firewood and
just everything is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Tell me about how the ?
Uh, cause you've mostly livedin big cities, too, your whole
life, so this is a different.
I mean, this is a normal to me.
This is how I grew up, but, um,this is new ish to you in terms
of the lifestyle.
Uh, tell me about it.
Yeah, I mean.
So I've experienced this typeof living new-ish to you in
(30:46):
terms of the lifestyle.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, I mean so I've experienced this type of living,
but mostly just visiting, likemy grandfather living in a tiny
town down in Florida, and youknow everybody's got land and
stuff like that.
So it was kind of coolexperiencing that as a kid.
But you're right, for the mostpart I've lived in the
(31:14):
neighborhood or in the hood, youknow, um, pretty pretty close
knit in different ways.
Like living out here is veryclose knit, everybody knows
everybody and everybody'ssupportive of everybody for the
most part.
But there's a proximity factorthat's not really like our
neighbor.
Yeah, they're not like a miledown the road, but I can't look
in their window, I can't seetheir front door, so it's kind
(31:39):
of like out of sight, out ofmind, like I feel like I don't
have neighbors, Right?
Um, but the fact that we wethought we weren't gonna like it
or that we would have to takemore time adjusting because we
can't just run around the cornerreal quick to the store or to
(32:00):
some trendy restaurant or highend dining, or you know, we went
to OSU games, we went toColumbus Crew games.
That's not down the streetanymore.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, takes some planning now.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Right, I mean even the grocery store, stuff like
that.
You know, now it's like we gotto go in town, we got to make a
trip into town.
Do you need anything?
You know, and you particularlywere worried about me and how I
would take adjusting to that andI'm like shut up, I'm like I
don't got no issues.
You know, the commute has beenOK.
(32:32):
I got a.
I got a 55 minute commute.
Now I used to have a sevenminute commute.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That is a little different and my energy levels
had to adjust.
You know getting up an hourearlier, you know to go, then do
a 12-hour shift and drive backan hour.
But for the most part, man, Ilike it.
I like the smaller town vibe,less traffic, less.
You know, nobody's really in ahurry here, so you don't have
(33:04):
the people like cutting you off,almost causing an accident and
then flicking you off like itwas your fault.
You know I like it.
And we still have Walmart.
We still got Kroger.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Everybody's got a Walmart, don't they?
No, they don't.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
But if you do have a Walmart, you know that you're in
the club, you're big deal.
But yeah, I like it out here.
Man, I think that the commute,which I originally thought was
going to be a bad thing, hasactually been a good thing
Because as I am leaving, thebusyness of Columbus, where we
(33:40):
lived before, has expandedexponentially.
They built what five, sixhousing and apartment
developments along two streets.
On either side of our housethere's six apartment and
housing developments coming up.
So the amount of traffic andjust busyness you know to then
(34:03):
like leave that and just thefurther out I get, the closer to
home I get it's like it alldisappears, right, and I'm on
those two lane country roads bythe time I'm back home and it's
like mentally it's awesome, it'sa great decompression and you
know I can put myself in likehome mode, you know which is
(34:27):
pretty cool.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
uh, it's.
It's an interesting thingbecause it's not new to me.
It's like being back yeah, it'slike how is it like to be back,
everybody's like, is it you're?
The and so it's uh, it's aninteresting piece because, quite
honestly, I couldn't wait toget away from here.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I worried about that coming by.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, I think what is helpful, though, is what I have
learned about myself in thetime away and in living
somewhere differently, is that Inow know how to put up
appropriate boundaries and Iknow how to filter opinions, and
(35:17):
what I mean by that is, I think, that, though the ideologies
that may exist here aredifferent than my own, I have a
good barometer, a little bit, ofbeing able to just kind of
filter that, because people'sthoughts and opinions are just
(35:40):
that their thoughts and opinions.
They're not their whole selves,and I think, in being away and
in being at school and being injobs and living in Columbus, I
have I mean, there are people inColumbus I don't agree with
either, right, so it's-.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
It's kind of like that agree to disagree.
Yeah, a little bit.
Because I think I would imaginethat living out here without
experiencing anything outside ofhere gives you a pressure to
kind of go along with it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well, and you don't know how to like, you don't know
how to counter those things ina way that feels appropriate.
I think I, as a person, havegrown a lot in my time away and
so it's given me better skillsto facilitate difficult
conversations.
Or and it's not that I I mean Ifeel like I'm making it sound
like every conversation I havehere is bad or that every person
(36:28):
that lives here I disagree with.
That's not necessarily the case, but, like when you've not
lived anywhere else orexperienced anything differently
, um, I think your perspectiveis a little bit limited.
But by me moving away andhaving a lot of personal growth
and professional growth and allof these other things, coming
(36:50):
back doesn't necessarily feellike I'm coming back the same
way.
I'm coming back with a lot ofdifferent perspectives.
My truths are different, myopinions have changed right,
because I've been confrontedwith some new information, right
.
So I feel good about being here.
(37:10):
I still get to do things that Ienjoy and spaces that I enjoy,
and I'm finding ways to do sointentionally.
So I really have liked beingback to be closer to family.
That was really important to me, particularly after our loss
the beginning of last year,which just happened.
The anniversary of that deathjust happened, which just
(37:36):
happened, the anniversary ofthat death just happened.
And that was like I think Isaid in that episode, that was
the first death my family hasexperienced in like 30 years, so
that was really hard for us.
So now that we are here, I feellike we are able to help out
differently, help out more, andmy family is really close, like
(37:57):
they're together all the time.
They're together right nowwhile we're recording.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, we kind of skipped out on Sunday lunch.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, apologies, grandma.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Apologies, cause they just might be listening to this
though, sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So those are the things that I feel like I missed
and those are truthfully thethings that I feel like I missed
and those are truthfully thethings that I felt like the kids
were missing out on um becausewe weren't close to your family
or my family and being incolumbus I mean we weren't far,
but we were far enough that itmade that community really hard
to foster so especially umtrying to bring both sides
(38:32):
together and a place wherenobody's like, nobody's close to
here.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So they were all traveling.
You know, an hour, two hoursaway, to come meet us in
Columbus.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yeah, so that got tricky to try to do those things
.
So, um, I'm glad I'm.
I'm grateful for the change ofpace, I'm grateful to continue
to keep the community in thespaces that I need it and, um,
being back's been fine for me,I'm glad to be here.
I love our house.
So I tell you that all the timeI love it every time something
(39:05):
new happens in the house.
I'm like man, I love our house,so I, by chance, at a farmer's
market we found the house wewere gonna buy and it wasn't on
the market and we were able tokind of facilitate that.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
To be honest, even if this house was on the market,
we wouldn't have looked at it.
It didn't fall into even thoughit's what we were looking for
in terms of potential.
It didn't fall into what wewere looking for as far as
finished product at the moment.
At that time and it also wefelt it was probably out of our
(39:42):
budget and I don't know justthere were a ton of reasons why
we figured like no, we can't buythis.
But for the fact that it wassomebody we knew.
I mean, like you said, itwasn't on the market.
We didn't have to rush theprocess.
They needed their own time tofind their own place to go and
move.
Nothing was packed on their end.
(40:05):
It was really impromptu forthem too, and so it was kind of
like, hey, while you're doing usthis solid, we're doing you
this solid.
It worked out for everybody,and the fact that we knew them
made it so much easier, like Idon't have to call their realtor
and their realtor give them amessage and then they get back
to them and get back to us youknow we would meet in person.
(40:27):
It's like, hey, I'll call themup real quick.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
You want to stop over and we can talk about this, or
you don't want to touch base onit.
It was just a really easyprocess and I think that they
reciprocally feel that love, soit was good all the way around.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
It's like an additional part of the family
now.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Right.
It worked out for both of usand provided them exactly what
they needed to, so we were gladthat it wrapped out that way for
the end of 2024.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, so, now that it's 2025, what are?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
you looking forward to?
Oh my gosh, I graduate thisyear.
Yeah, I'm done.
So that's what I'm lookingforward to.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I'm feeling very done .
You've been with this one forhow long I don't know, you
mentioned going back to schoolagain, maybe.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Listen, I don't know.
I never know.
So that's what I'm most lookingforward to.
I'm sure 2025 is going to bringus a lot of really cool things,
but I will be done with thisdoctorate degree in May I
graduate, so I'm really lookingforward to closing that chapter.
I'm excited for you.
I'm proud of you, thanks.
I'm proud of the research I'vebeen able to do in this
dissertation that I've been ableto write.
(41:42):
It's near and dear to me, soI'm glad to finally close the
book, I guess, on that and getto experience the reward that
I've been chasing for years.
This is the end of my fourthyear, so it's kind of hard to
believe that that's all gone soquickly because it didn't feel
(42:03):
quick.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It's like doing time.
It looks like it's a lot whenyou look back.
I mean, it looks like a lotwhen you're looking forward.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
But at some point you're like man.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
That kind of went fast.
Yeah, a couple big hurdles leftto seal the deal and be done,
but I'm really looking forwardto the end.
But I'm proud of the processand what it's taken to get here
and the sacrifice on all of ourparts.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
So after this, then what?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh, who knows, I can't even see too far ahead of
me right now.
Like I'm so in it right now tocheck these boxes that I can't
even see.
Like I can't see anything evenin the second half of the year,
let alone the what comes nextfor me.
How about you?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Well, you know, I finally got settled in to, you
know, fuel hauling, right, and Ifeel like that's something I'm
going to be at for theforeseeable future.
I really I mean, it's a jobthat made me kind of give up on
thinking about other jobs.
That's big.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
That is big.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
That's big, a lot of people can say that I don't
think Right, I mean, I like it.
They're very supportive and thejob is, it's not very
challenging, but there's alwayssomething new coming along new
accounts, new this, new that,and it's rewarding.
So I like that.
So I've decided for 2025, sinceyou're graduating, no more
(43:34):
school, I'm going to take allthat time that you've been
taking and I'm going to investmore in the podcast, because
this is my baby, right, my babybeen with the babysitter.
I ain't been giving her no love.
No, it's cool.
But you know, I have been um,kind of thinking up some new
(43:55):
ideas for the podcast and thebusiness as a whole.
Um, and I'm going to try todevelop that for 2025 and beyond
.
Um, I bought some new equipment, which is cool.
So I got a soundboard.
Uh, that will make things awhole lot better when it comes
to recording over the phoneinterviews, because a little
(44:16):
behind the scenes peak, I wasrecording phone calls on my
phone and I would just put amicrophone up next to my phone
on speakerphone.
Turned out all right, you know.
But now with the soundboard, Ican, you know, hook it to
Bluetooth and everything shouldgo smoother.
Also, we can include otherpeople in on that, since I don't
(44:39):
have to take up an additionalmicrophone.
So you know that I'm excitedabout that.
Um, I'm excited that once theworkshop is, uh, all done, I'll
have like my own recording spaceand get into other aspects of
it, like you know, maybe I don'tknow maybe go do video
(45:02):
podcasting or get into thesocial media stuff that I'm not
really big into, like TikTok andshort videos.
I don't know how to, don't lookat me, nah, I don't really.
Basically, I'll be learning asI do it, but you know, just some
ideas.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
If you are an influencer, reach out to us on
stories at lockdowntolegacycomfor some pro tips.
We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
And merch.
That is something that's comingin 2025.
I'm going to have somemerchandise because I know we
got some loyal listeners, somededicated fans, and I would love
to have some merch for them,whether it be hats, hoodies, you
know, t-shirts, water bottles,whatever it is.
I'm going to try to get thatgoing, because that is something
that I thought about last yearand did not come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
So if you are new here, this is probably a good
spot for us to talk about who weare and what we do.
So let's transition a littlebit from an update on our lives
to us.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about who you are and why
this is important and how thispodcast began and kind of the
history of it?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Sure, all right.
So of course my name is RemyJones, aka Jeremy Jones.
I am a formerly incarceratedindividual, having served 10
years in state prison in Ohio.
After getting out, I just kindof had this self-determination
(46:29):
and a plan best of all, to notcome back and to not allow all
of the doubt that the systemlikes to sow in us to win.
So everyone said how hard itwas going to be and all the
(46:49):
things that weren't possible.
And when they said what waspossible, I recognized that it
was all trying to condition meto aim low and just survive and
not go back, and I didn't likethat.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
So you know, I made this little notebook full of
goals that were justostentatious and extreme and I
didn't let anybody tell me, no,that's not possible.
And so I started getting to itand there were many hiccups
along the way and there are manypeople who continue to say, no,
(47:27):
that's not possible.
But I found me a good partnerin DJ and together we are
blazing a trail.
So I'm a truck driver, I'vesold cars that's pretty much the
only two professions that I'vehad since release almost seven
years ago.
But I'm also a mentor andconsultant and podcast
(47:51):
personality consultant andpodcast personality and my hope
is that everything I do not juston this podcast, not just in
mentoring or consulting, but mylife in general is an example
and a testament to what canhappen.
And it's not just a fluke.
It's not just a one-offexperience that I made it out,
(48:16):
luke.
It's not just a one-offexperience that I made it out,
but it is actually possible moreoften than not that you can not
only survive without going backto prison, but you can actually
thrive.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Right, absolutely.
I am Debbie Jones and, as youmight have guessed, we are a
husband and wife team.
Hopefully you would haveguessed that at this point in
the podcast, but I don't knowwhat I am.
I'm a lot of things and nothingall at once.
(48:48):
I don't know Right now.
I'm finishing up a PhD ineducational policy.
My research focuses on the livedexperiences of black educators
in states with legislation thatbans, bars or prohibits the
discussion of race in theclassroom.
That sounds very practiced.
It is.
(49:08):
It is my statement, it's thething I have to say about it.
So my little abstract, Isuppose.
But in addition to that, I thinkthat my professional career has
been dedicated similarly tofighting injustice, and so what
drew you and I together?
A lot of things drew ustogether, but what drew us
(49:31):
together in this line of work isthat we see that the criminal
legal system is far from just inmost ways, and fighting
injustice is a lot of what I doin my professional line of work
in terms of finding equity, andyou and I talked a lot about
(49:54):
preventative measures to keeppeople from going to prison, but
we also talked about how thereisn't a lot of post-ventative
measures.
When people come home.
There isn't a way to transition, and so we were hoping to
create something that spoke toboth ends of that spectrum and
everything that happens inbetween you from a standpoint of
lived experience and havinggone through it from start to
(50:16):
finish, but me from the angle ofbeing able to bring the policy
lens into that and the behindthe curtain a little bit of the
why things are written the waythey are to continue to keep
people oppressed in specificways.
So the podcast started inOctober of 2022.
All the way back to our firstepisode.
(50:37):
It's Lonely at the Bottom, butprior to that it took a little
bit of convincing right.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, yeah.
So, of course, like everythingelse in my life, dj right here
is my biggest supporter andmotivator and she was like hey,
that thing you talked about,like you should do it.
But I have a friend namedShakima who not too long after I
got out, you know, we werehaving all these deep
conversations and she was like,bro, like you should start a
(51:04):
podcast.
And at the time I didn't evenknow what a podcast was.
But she was like man, you couldstart one up, like, and it
costs next to nothing.
And so it kind of went in oneear and out the other, but she
did not give up on that idea.
And then it was justhappenstantial that Debbie also
was like hey, you mentioned thisthing before and I think we
(51:26):
should do that.
And I was like, eh, okay, well,now the pressure's on right.
So here we are and I'm gladthat people saw that and
wouldn't let it go.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, and the podcast has kind of evolved over time.
It evolved before we started.
Right.
We had several concepts come upbefore we recorded that first
one in October of 2022.
October 13th was our firstrelease date and our anniversary
of this podcast, but it wentstrong for a year and a half,
bringing us into what March,april-ish of 2024.
(52:01):
At that point, we were justdoing a lot of life and it was
right before our house going onthe market in June and we had to
.
Just something had to giveright, and it's not a good
excuse for stepping away fromour fans for so long or from
people who really enjoylistening to this podcast on a
(52:22):
weekly basis.
So you know, we're settledagain.
We're back in our own space andwe have our recording equipment
up.
You've upgraded some equipment,so we're ready to roll.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
We're ready to roll.
We're bringing it to you thereal son, if y'all remember that
from the intro from last season.
So, yeah, I'm here, I'm readyand I look forward to sharing
many stories and experienceswith you guys.
As always, you guys know theemail stories at Lockdown to
Legacy.
(52:54):
There's also the Lockdown toLegacy podcast on Facebook, so
please give your feedback, giveyour ideas, if there's something
you want to hear about.
You know if we got theknowledge, you know I'm all for
it, and not only us.
But we do bring incarceratedindividuals on the show and
other formerly incarceratedindividuals and even supporters
(53:17):
of them, people who were intheir corner during that
experience.
So if you have those questionsand we can get them answered, by
any means, please share those.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
We have Remy's done a really good job getting a great
lineup for you in terms ofinterviews for season two.
So we've got some really goodvoices some are old to the
podcast.
If you want to scroll backthrough our catalog, re-listen
to some things as you aregetting ready to hear lockdown
to legacy weekly again, um,we've done episodes just you and
I talking about differentaspects of prison, but we've
(53:51):
also done a lot of interviews.
Um, podcast concept kind ofevolved and we started bringing
Warren in.
Um started off justhappenstance, but then everybody
loved Warren so we had to bringhim in more.
You want to talk about him andyour conversations?
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Uh.
So first, um, warren, we stillwill have uh regularly for
Warren's Wisdom.
We will also still have Wisefor Wise's World.
If you guys haven't checked outthose episodes, feel free to
look back through the catalog.
We are thinking we're going tochange the structure of those
episodes to make them a littlebit more formal, because really
(54:29):
they were just conversationswith guys I love and we have
good, good, deep conversations.
But also I wanted to bring backthat element of the Summer
Legacy Series.
So we're going to still do someof those type interviews to
show you guys the successes andyou know some of the not so
(54:52):
successful people who came homeand want to share their
experiences.
So, um, yeah, you know we'regoing to try to figure out that
good balance to not be a bighodgepodge kind of, as we were
as we were developing lastseason, but to not just forego
some of those elements that webrought in that I feel like were
(55:13):
good and that you guysexpressed, that you liked.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, I think it was important to us.
We heard some feedback like notabout I guess it wasn't toxic
positivity, but about justshowcasing the successes of
folks.
I do think folks need to hearand see that because we don't
see enough of thatpost-incarceration, see enough
of that post-incarceration.
But also we need to ground itin reality and say sometimes it
(55:39):
isn't successful the first timehome, or sometimes it isn't
successful in the endeavorsyou're taking on and you have to
change course, and so we'regoing to try to bring in some
more of those types of storiesso that you can continue to see
the persistence of everybodyinvolved in this.
So it was a great time away forus to regroup, to think through
the elements that we wanted tokeep and how the structure
(56:01):
needed to move forward, andwe're really excited to bring
you season two of the Lockdownto Legacy podcast.
Any other pieces on the podcastitself.
Speaker 1 (56:09):
We're going to bring you guys that same old
down-to-earth, real, sometimesfunny, sometimes serious, maybe
occasionally even sad, but we'regoing to try to be that.
What's the word I'm looking for?
Source, that source of justunfiltered experience of the 360
(56:34):
, experience of being involvedwith the criminal legal system.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
Well, now that we have given an update on our
lives, given an update on thepodcast, are you all right if I
ask you a couple of closingquestions?
Oh, sure, you like being put onthe spot.
I didn't check these ahead oftime.
Speaker 1 (56:52):
I'm ready, baby.
I stay ready.
So I got to get ready.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
You talked about this just a little bit ago.
In terms of it's your.
We're coming up on your seventhanniversary of being home and,
as you shared just a minute ago,you were in for 10 years.
So we're getting closer to thetime home post-incarceration,
equaling the time in.
I'm curious from yourperspective now how often are
(57:19):
you still thinking about prison?
Speaker 1 (57:25):
I still think about prison all the time.
I mean, that was a hugeexperience for me, especially
being that when I went to prisonI was 19 years old and so by
the time I got out, I had spenta third of my life in prison.
You know so, unfortunately,prison is a huge part of my life
(57:47):
experience, you know so, untilI get to that point where it's
just a drop in the pond.
It's really a big part, andit's always something that I'm
comparing to.
Something I did in prison,somebody I met in prison, a
conversation I had in prison,you know whatever, but mostly
(58:08):
when I think about prison, Ithink about the people I met in
prison.
You know, I left a lot of peoplebehind when I came home, and my
goal is to not leave thembehind.
You know, uh, I admit that whenI was in there, I was that type
of person that people would gohome and they would try to give
me their contact information.
(58:28):
I would turn them down.
I'm like, nah, I'm cool bro.
Like yeah, we were cool, butlike I'm not going to call.
You're not going to call, we'renot.
You know.
But I did hold on to some ofthose relationships, like Warren
, like Wise, and you know someof my other friends.
I have a few other friends thatare in there, and so they are
missed.
You know they are missedespecially as I.
(58:51):
You know they are missedespecially as I um have all
these new experiences that I tryto communicate to them.
I try to you know, the wholemodel of this thing is to let
people know like, hey, I did it,you can do it, and so I try to
keep giving them new informationso that they don't have to try
(59:13):
to plan based off of oldinformation or one-sided
information, right?
So I think about prison all thetime, unfortunately and
fortunately.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
You visited a lot of prison, I think, in the last few
years, visiting people likeWarren and other friends that
are currently inside.
Does it ever conjure upanything from you being the
person that's coming into theprison now, not the person
receiving visitors?
Speaker 1 (59:44):
No, I do know the importance of what I'm doing
when I go into a prison to visitsomebody.
So I try not to make it tooheavy but I try not to take it
too lightheartedly to where it'sfelt like it's not significant
Gotcha.
It does feel weird sometimes.
(01:00:05):
Some of the prisons that I'vegone to were prisons that I've
been in.
So I've run into COs that Iknew.
I've run into administrators Iknew and they kind of give you
that second look like I know youfrom somewhere.
You know you go through thespiel like, oh yeah, I used to
be in here and they're like, oh,when did you get out?
And et cetera.
(01:00:25):
But it's surprising how you getto see a whole different side
of that person, like CEOs andadministrators.
I've met the um, one of theunit managers that was always
kind of a hard ass, one of theCEOs that was kind of always
hard ass, and they're like, oh,what you been up to since you've
been out?
(01:00:45):
Obviously if you're coming backin here you must be doing
something good.
You know you're not getting introuble and then so I'll give
them a quick.
You know you're not getting introuble and then so I'll give
them a quick, you know elevatorpitch of my story and they're
like, well, damn, um, they'rereally really happy to hear that
(01:01:11):
and that is cool yeah.
Um and oh, I had another one foryou.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I'm going to come up with it, mm-hmm, okay, okay, so
now that it's going on yearseven, what is like?
I know you have a lot of thingsleft that you want to do.
You haven't accomplished all ofit.
In seven years.
You've accomplished a lot, butwhat's like the next thing for
you that you want to accomplish,the next thing for you that you
(01:01:35):
want to accomplish, like athing that you dreamed of while
in prison, that you want toactualize now, seven years home?
Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Foreign travel.
You know other countries.
Yeah, we've done that andthat's been awesome.
That was a big thing becausethere is a lot of misinformation
about that being a felon.
People are like, oh, you can'tget your passport, you can't
leave the country and this andthat, which is not true, like
even when you're on supervisionyou're allowed to, which I don't
know who said you can't or why,but it is very common
(01:02:03):
misinformation that's out therebeing spread.
So that was a big thing.
I want to get a pardon.
That's my thing, man.
I want to get a pardon.
That's my thing, man.
I've managed to overcome havingto tell people about my past,
not saying I haven't had to tellthem, but to where I don't
(01:02:23):
really care.
I freely, as you see on thisshow, I tell people and share my
experience, so it hasn't reallystopped me from gaining
employment or housing or some ofthese other things that are
common barriers when you have acriminal past.
(01:02:44):
But I'm at that point now whereit's like at for a very long
time to where, if I didn't tellyou about my past, you wouldn't
be able to ascertain that thatis something that I have with me
.
I don't live to where it lookslike I have a past.
(01:03:07):
I don't have any type ofthoughts that recidivism is ever
going to be a possibility forme, so really, the only reason
why I hold on to it is to helpother people, to teach other
people.
So I found out that there aresome resources and programs out
there that will help you geteither an expungement or a
(01:03:31):
pardon full pardon.
So when my time is up, that'swhat I want to do.
There is a time limit for howlong you've been out or how long
you've been off supervision, sothat's my next move.
Okay, full pardon.
Baby, I'm inviting all thelisteners.
So, whatever we're at, howevermany listeners we have at that
(01:03:53):
time, best believe we all comeinto the courthouse deep.
I want all the like SouthernBaptist preachers out front on
the megaphones and we gonna takeit to the White House and we
gonna take it to ConstitutionHall.
Ha ha, ha.
(01:04:14):
Like.
I want y'all to show up andshow out man, because that's
going to be huge for me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
You haven't even had any caffeine today.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
This is just.
I'm ready to take a nap, justyou.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
My last piece.
I'm looking forward to it, bythe way, but we did this
exercise last year, so I'll giveyou a second to think about it
and I'll do mine first, but Iwant you to think about your
word for 2025.
I don't know if you rememberwhat your 2024 word was.
I don't actually, yeah, we did.
I'm sure you could go back onthe podcast I think we did it as
(01:04:49):
part of this podcast too so youcan go back to the episode and
figure out what your word wasand how you accomplished it or
didn't.
It's been a practice of mine toidentify a word for the year
that I want it to be for me,whether that's who I want to be
or whether I want the year tolook like for me and I've got a
really good one this year.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
All right, so you're going to start us off.
Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I am my word for 2025 , and I hope it's not intended
to sound superficial, so I needyou to look at the depth of the
word rather than it at itssurface my 2025 year word is
iconic Mm, mm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
So are you going to share your depth or are you just
going to let people do theirown?
Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Well, I already talked about my graduation.
That's really big for me.
I don't intend to get anotherdoctorate, right.
So it's iconic for me.
I will join the 2% of blackwomen with a doctorate degree
(01:05:59):
and that's very cool to me, um.
But it's iconic in a lot ofother ways too.
We are spending our very firstfull year in our forever home.
Um, I started a new job towardsthe end of 2024 and so I will
be coming up on a first fullyear and they're like so it's.
It's iconic because it's the,it's the first of a lot of
things and it's the finality ofothers that have been really
integral to who I am the lastfour years.
(01:06:21):
So I think post-pandemic, right, we can go back to 2020 and
realize what happened to theworld in that year and the
following year, and now we'recoming out of that a bit
globally, across countries, andthe impacts are still there, but
(01:06:43):
the way we interact hascompletely changed.
Yeah, for sure, and so iconic ohtonic, oh, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
So, um, I do know that in 2018, when I first came
home, I had a one word thatsummed up my life, and that one
word was sacrifice, um.
And then 2019, 2020, 2021, um,it was growth, you know um, 2022
, 2023.
I don't really remember whatthey were, but I do know that,
(01:07:25):
uh, I kind of switched it up alittle bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I think it was hustle because that's when the podcast
started.
It's when you were doing a lotof the business work and getting
your speaking organization offthe ground, so it might have
been hustle.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Maybe it was a hustle , but I guess if I had to come
up with one for 2025, what wouldI say?
That is, I can't saycontentment.
I mean because in some ways Iam.
I will say that in 2025, Iwould say self-care, because, as
(01:08:06):
much as I like to talk abouthow I sacrificed and I was so
growth-focused and all thisother things, it was all about
the hustle.
Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Yeah, you bad at it.
Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I never wanted to take care of myself.
Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Yeah, you bad at self-care.
Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
So that's what I want to say for 2025 is self-care.
Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
All right, Now that is also on a recorded thing.
It's binding Binding legally,I'm sure.
Sure, I don't know about allthat all right, y'all heard it
well, I think that's a great wayto bring us back in, uh, bring
our listeners up to date so theycan be ready for some content
when we break into the seasonnext week.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Any parting words, mr jones um, my parting words are
thank you to everybody who umstuck by us.
You know, I still watch thestatistics for the podcast and
there are people still listening, even though we haven't
recorded in six months.
So thank you very much to allof you guys.
(01:09:10):
And now that we're back, youknow, please continue to support
us.
You know, continue to share thepodcast when the merchandise
drops.
You know, please hit me up.
I'll have it.
You know, I'll let you guysknow where you can get it.
But yeah, that's all I reallygot to say is thank you for your
support.
Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Sounds good to me.
We'll see you next week, nextweek.
Peace Bye, thank you.
(01:10:08):
You can reach out to us withany feedback, questions,
comments or share the love byemailing stories at
lockdown2legacycom.
Stories at lockdown2legacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at
lockdown2legacy and on Facebookat the Lockdown to Legacy
(01:10:32):
podcast.
Please don't forget to rate,review and subscribe.
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