March 8, 2024 • 63 mins
When Remie and Warren sat out to record this episode, they couldn't shake the feeling that they were about to uncover some profound truths. From the confines of a prison cell to the heights careers , the hustler's mentality can be a powerful force for transformation. Their conversation traverses the rocky terrain of personal evolution, where the grit and determination honed behind bars can fuel a future of legitimate success. They share Their own tales of maintaining the hustle without crossing into darkness, stressing the importance of a balanced life even when ambition runs high.
Our colleague Warren joins us to unravel the complex tapestry of personal growth under duress. They dissect the journey from inmates' initial struggles to their quest for knowledge, each step a deliberate move away from high-risk schemes and toward constructive pursuits. They dive deeply into the stories that shaped their sense of financial literacy, responsibility, and maturity, revealing the hard-earned wisdom that now guides them. As they tell it, the hustle isn't just about survival; it’s about preparing to thrive in the world that awaits beyond the prison gates.
As the episode unfolds, they don’t shy away from the raw moments that define their transition from hustlers to mentors. Their personal anecdotes lay bare the lessons they've learned in valuing the hard-earned dollar and teaching the next generation to do the same. They affirm the power of contentment over complacency, underscoring how true growth often means putting people before possessions. Join us on this intimate exploration, where the currency of choice is character, and the investment is in a future grounded in integrity and wisdom.
Hey Legacy Family! Don't forget to check us out via email or our socials. Here's a list:
Our Website!: https://www.lockdown2legacy.com
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lockdown.2.legacy
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Lockdown2Legacy
InstaGram: https://www.instagram.com/lockdown2legacy/
You can also help support the Legacy movement at these links:
Buy Me A Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/storiesF
PayPal: paypal.me/Lockdown2Legacy
Buzzsprout Tips: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2086791/support
Also, check out the folks who got us together:
Music by: FiyahStartahz
https://soundcloud.com/fiyahstartahz
Cover art by: Timeless Acrylics
https://www.facebook.com/geremy.woods.94
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the
inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
Yes, we are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system, outside ofprison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real.
And if that's not for you, wetotally understand, but please
do what's best for yourlistening ears.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, we're about to keep it real, son.
Our goal of this podcast is toshare the inside realities of
the American prison and criminaljustice system, from
pre-charges all the way topost-release, from the voices of
those who've experienced itfirsthand, including me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's right, let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
What's up, all my legacy fam.
Welcome back to another episodeof Lockdown of Legacy.
Of course I'm your host, remyJones, and this week we got
another episode of Warrant'sWisdom, so of course it'll be a
call Me and my guy, warren.
Tons of advisement dudes, justa wealth of wisdom, hence the
(01:53):
name of it.
This week we wanted to revisitone of our older episodes and
talk about that hustler'smentality.
We did the episode abouthustles in prison, which was
more in-depth on what allhustles are available and what
guys generally do to survive inthere.
Because this week we kind ofjust have a concept about the, a
(02:16):
conversation about thementality of hustling in prison
and kind of the development overtime, how it changes Me.
Personally, I feel like thehustler's mentality is not
necessarily a bad thing.
I generally still hold on to alot of that, a lot of that
mentality and a lot of skillsthat I developed as a hustler in
(02:39):
my now legit life.
And I feel like we did thatepisode about grit.
So it kind of ties into that.
But I'm not going to sit hereand yet man, appreciate you guys
for tuning in.
Please check out our website,man.
I'm trying to build that up.
It's still in the works, butleave me some feedback.
(03:00):
Let me know what you think.
What else Also hit me up onsocial media?
Tell me some of these topicsthat you guys want to hear about
.
If you got questions,especially if you got questions
directed at Warren or you gotquestions directed at Wise,
they've expressed their desireto give you guys feedback
(03:20):
directly.
So, like I said, hit us up.
Facebook the Lockdown the Legacy, podcast.
Instagram Lockdown the Legacy,twitter Lockdown the Legacy and
email stories atlockdownthelegacycom.
The website islockdownthelegacycom, so feel
free to go there.
Hit us up.
If you guys want to leavedonations.
(03:42):
There's a place where you cando that on there.
If you want to leave any typeof feedback, you can do it
directly on the website, and wegot the episode library.
It's in the works, it's growing, so just be sure to utilize
that.
Check it out, all right.
So that's it for the call and Ihope you guys enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
This is a prepaid debit call from.
Warren an inmate at the GraftonCorrectional Institution To
accept this call.
Press zero To refuse this call.
Hang up or press one To preventcalls from this.
This call is from a DRCCorrectional facility and is
(04:31):
subject to monitoring andrecording.
Utilization of an unapp,viruses and freeway calls to
communicate are strictlyprohibited and a violation of
PRC policies.
Thank you for using GTL Toprevent calls from this facility
.
This call is from a D RCCorrectional facility as such to
monitoring and recording.
It has a 프로 that you have anunapproved application and three
(04:53):
weight calls to communicate arestrictly prohibited and a
violation of DRC policy.
Thank you for using GTO.
Thank you for using GTO.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
What's up, brother?
What's going on, bro?
How are you?
I'm doing well, I boughtyourself.
Oh man, you know I'm doing allright, just working like a dog
man, just working like a dog.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
No, I read that he was like man.
I'm doing this much time andthis is like man.
This is don't have no time off.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Pretty much, pretty much.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So what's the reason for the grind?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know I'm just trying to get refocused.
You know, recenter knows someof the goals that I had that
kind of got a little lax.
You know, not lax, but othergoals end up taking presidents.
So just trying to pick back upin order to do that, you got to
(05:45):
get some of this stuff that Iput on my plate off my plate,
you know.
Yeah, so it's.
I'm not going to say it's easy,but it's very lucrative to pick
up time For people that don'tknow.
I've been basically workinglike five and six day work weeks
alternating, which is why a lotwere eight, 12 hour days too.
(06:07):
So it's definitely a lot, butyou know it's.
I mean it could potentiallylike just by picking up two days
it could potentially doublewhat I bring home in a work week
.
So I mean just trying to try togrind hard, get ahead, you know
(06:28):
, renew some of that, some ofthat hustle, some of that grit
that I had when I first camehome.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Yeah, but have you accepted?
That is not like when you firstcame home.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Oh yeah, you came home.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
You was by yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
For sure, For sure, but also accepted that.
You know this is a we, this isfor us, not for me.
Oh yeah, so you know it's, wetalked about it.
You know we made a plan.
It's not something I'm about todo for a long time.
I just figured if I could do itfor, like, for a month, you
know then it'll be about that.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
You had a Debbie feel about it, but you said you just
talked about it.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well, debbie, she focused on PhD.
You know it's push time.
You know she graduated inDecember, so she's trying to
write that dissertation.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
OK, Dr Jones.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Right, right.
So she got to spend all hertime writing.
I'm like, why wouldn't I justgo to work then?
What am I going to do?
I mean, I could go and have asocial life.
But I'm like, nah, I'm allright.
You know I get off at four.
So by the time I get off, youknow that's when my kids come in
home from school.
So it's not like I'm out oftheir life by working more.
Right?
(07:39):
You know, if Debbie going towork, if it's a work day, I'm
out weekday.
You know she working duringthat time anyway.
So I would just be at homedoing house projects or you know
whatever, playing video games.
I'm like I'm all right.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
You know the interesting thing about that
because I just recently wentthrough something similar.
I noticed, when I'm not focused, I'm distracted by everything,
and everything starts to get tome, and easily.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I was telling Christine about that.
I said easily too.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Easily right and I was telling Christine about it.
And this is the benefit ofhaving a good woman.
A good woman knows how to putencouragement into your soul
when you really need it.
And she just spoke to me aboutknowing who I am, being
confident in what I can do,knowing my greatness and just
(08:40):
refocusing on the things.
That's necessary instead oflooking to the left and right.
There will always be someonethat can be better, but just
because they're better atsomething, don't diminish my
greatness.
And she talked to me one nightand, man, since that day, I've
been waking up on fire.
I mean, every single day I'vejust been grinding and just
(09:01):
doing everything that I know Ineed to do.
Even the moments when I don'twant to do it, I still get up
and do it, because one of thethings that I feel that we men
need from women is we needsomeone that can believe enough,
even in the moments when wedon't believe in ourselves.
And to have that in your cornermakes you feel like I don't just
(09:25):
want to do this for me.
Not only do I want to do it forme and you, but I also want to
give you a belief, the honorthat it deserved to have by you
extending it to me, and thatmakes a man feel powerful.
I know the notice.
That would be one all differentthat, but a man that has a
woman that truly believes in him.
And I ain't talking aboutsomeone who's just a selfish
bastard or anything like that,but I'm talking about a real man
(09:47):
that have a woman who believein him.
It makes him feel like I don'twant to let her down.
I don't want to diminish herbelief in me.
I don't want to weaken it by mylaziness or my insufficiencies
or just my neglect.
I want to put my ass to thegrinding and get it done.
(10:07):
And she put so much fire in me,mom, I'm telling you and that's
what I've been doing I can wakeup at 5, 5.30 every morning and
I'll bust my ass into 7.30 atnight just programming and doing
re-entries and trying to getthese individuals here I'm about
to sort of be on the phone withyou.
I'm about to do a parolepreparation class and just every
(10:30):
single thing I can do I'mwriting programs, I'm learning
how to write articles, I'mworking on putting a new play
together, I'm working on anotherof play, things with the older
linkies, and every single thingthat I'm doing it's like a
testimony of what this woman hasput into me simply by her
(10:51):
belief, and that's a powerfulthing to have.
To me, it is, that just is real.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I actually wanted to talk about today.
We already did an episode aboutthe hustle hustle culture in
the side of the joint, but Iactually wanted to get your take
on that.
So I wanted to do a part two toit, because it's easy in there
(11:20):
if you don't really have focusor something to focus on, it's
easy to get in that feeling ofman.
You might be totally focused,you might be in the law library
every day working out, every dayprogramming, and all of a
sudden you just fall off and,yeah, it's kind of easy to just
(11:43):
get caught up in that.
I mean, to be honest, I can'tcount how many times I don't
went months within that 10 yearperiod where I didn't work out,
I ain't signed up for no newprograms, I ain't write nobody,
I ain't call nobody.
Like all of a sudden, like Inever watched TV before, all of
a sudden I had 10 TV shows I waswatching.
(12:03):
You know I was.
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
And you've seen all of them before, All the movies
you saw before, all the TV, allyou just reruns.
But it's just easier to sitthere and crack open the box of
debuts and then go do a pushup.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I get it.
And that's what I was going tosay too.
Like all my eating habits, Istart eating junk food.
I started making Foxies, I was,you know.
All of a sudden I'm like damn,where are my money going, you
know.
But then, you know, hopefullyyou got somebody, whether it's a
family member or a good woman,in your life, wherever your
partner or even one of yourhomies around you, cause, you
(12:36):
know, we do got that littlecommunity in there and they be
like, hey, bro, tighten up, youknow, and they kind of renew
that spirit in you.
And next thing, you know, youdone got a new hustle.
You do got some new programsgoing.
You back in the library, youeven read five, six books this
month, you know.
And it's the same out here, butat the same time, like in there
(13:00):
, it's really necessary to havethem people around, because you
got a lot of free time.
You know, out here I can getoff work and I can be like man.
I'm gonna watch some TV for twohours.
Man, it's tired, get somethingto eat, go to bed.
But when you in there, you havepotential to benefit the most
(13:23):
from all that time you have, oryou have the potential to suffer
the most from all that time youwaste.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Well, that's the problem with being in here Like
out there if I don't work, Idon't eat, I get evicted, I'm
bumming, I can't do anything.
I'm living under a bridge andhere you can have a job that
only takes five minutes to doand then the rest of your day is
open and there's not reallyanything to force you to do
(13:51):
what's required of you.
So you have to beself-motivated.
I'll give you an example justrecently, I just recently found
out that the parole board hadmade new stipulations on with
their judging us off of, and itcame out in 2021.
I still have a parole handbookfrom 2017 and 2019.
(14:15):
Now, had I not been as vigilantas I am when I read and then ask
for information, I still wouldbe operating off obsolete
information.
But they did their job, theymade it available.
But if I'm just sitting herewondering about what basketball
game I'm gonna play or whatfundraiser I'm gonna get in, or
(14:38):
am I gonna try to trick this guyout or something, then I would
have missed out.
And so the hustle is different.
When I first came in, hustlingmeant money.
That's what it meant, and Ihustle.
I sold almost everything in thejoint.
I also drug toothbrush condoms.
I sold almost everything in thejoint.
(14:58):
But the hustle now is different,because now the hustle is about
information that's gonna get mehome, and you see guys around
here, especially at Grafton.
You see guys around here now.
They're hungry for theinformation because they let a
lot of guys go from here, and so, while the focus at one point
was on prison stuff, now thehustle is how can I get more
(15:22):
information, how can I learnmore, how can I connect more,
how can I network more?
Because homes start to becomemore important than prison.
So while you can go ahead andsell these strips and like a
thousand dollars a month from it, now you're like when do strips
make you?
It'd be two more years.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Facts.
You know the evolution of thathustle mentality, man, cause I
know I could tell you for a factand I know you just same thing,
cause you just ran off a listthat was pretty similar to mine
is when you walk in prison, yourhustle mentality.
I mean you might still havesome street hustle, depending on
(16:01):
what you was doing out there.
You might just be lost in thesauce until you stumble across
it or somebody you know turnyour lights on, get you hit.
But in the beginning it was alllike I'm selling drugs, I'm
selling porn, I'm selling, youknow, I'm shooting tattoos, I'm
selling art, yeah, gambling, youknow, at a certain point it's
(16:25):
like, all right, man, you gonnatry to stay out of trouble a
little bit, mostly because allthat stuff you've been doing
kind of funded some comfort towhere you kind of put it on
autopilot and stay away from ita little bit.
So you like, all right, man,I'm ironing clothes, I'm, you
know, you know whatever.
You know, and then you get tothat enlightened point at the
(16:48):
end where it's like renewed.
And you like, all right,hopefully, hopefully it's
renewed.
And you get that enlightenmentto where it's like, all right,
I'm trying to figure out ways tobuild my credit out there, I'm
trying to find jobs out there,I'm trying to network with
certain people and all of asudden it's like, like you said,
it's like, yeah, I could go andsell some dope.
I mean, it's certain stuffgoing around here where you can
(17:11):
legitimately make thousands ofdollars a month.
You can make almost what peoplemaking on the street with a
good job, you know.
But you know the risk ain'trewarding no more.
Like I used to thrive off therisk.
You know my punk.
He was making hooch, I wasshooting tattoos.
We was doing all this stuff,man.
(17:31):
It was like, oh, we just gotword, they about to do a
shakedown.
Oh, we just got word SRT coming.
Like we was, we thrived ongetting over on them and
thwarting their efforts, youknow.
Well, now you know, at the endof it it's like SRT coming, I'm
gonna fuck.
I ain't got nothing going on.
I don't think I can keep thatshit away from my punk.
I got nothing going on.
Keep that shit away from mypunk.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
It's interesting that you say that, because I
remember the mentality that Ihad when I first got locked up
and it was kind of taught to mewhich was, if us versus them, we
are the criminals and it'stheir job to catch us, but it's
our job to outsmart them.
(18:16):
And I remember when I was inLebanon I think I did about two
years in Lebanon this is beforethe FBI came to get me I
remember being so caught up inthe hustle I didn't even call
home.
I was just, it was just everysingle day.
(18:36):
And then back then theCincinnati guys, they had all
the weed down there.
So you get a ounce of weed.
We didn't really do anythingbecause you can only make $250
off an ounce a week of everyonehad it.
So you're getting out maybe $15, $16, $15 to $16 spoons.
It's like $100, you couldn'tmake any money, but we got the
crack in there.
(18:56):
We're making almost $1500 offof A-ball easily.
And it was so crazy that I wasjust doing everything down there
because I didn't even see homethe idea of going out and going
out into society.
That didn't even cross my mind.
It would cross my mind.
Okay, I gotta go over to JayJohn and pick up this and gotta
go make sure that Hernandez goover there and get that money
(19:19):
because he owes $200, keepingtrack of all of this it was.
I was just caught up in thehustle and the problem with that
is when you get out of thehustle you feel about that void
of the hustle Because I mean, ifyou're not getting any real
money in, it's hard doing time,and it is really really hard
(19:42):
doing time and pull towards.
You ain't even gonna sufferlike this man.
Go back, go home, get you apack, or go back and do this and
do this or no, try to.
It's okay instead of okay.
You ain't gotta sell drugs butjust want a football ticket or
do that or do that.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And I don't think for the listeners.
Man, I don't think they realizehow easy it is to get roped off
, especially if you alreadysolidified reputation as a
hustler.
Like people would come to youand be like, hey, why don't you
run my ticket for me?
You ain't gotta start nothing,I already got this, just run it
for me.
You know, here, just hold thisand run my store for me here,
(20:19):
just run it.
Like you already solidifiedyour reputation.
So people will come and seekyou out Like, oh, what's up what
?
Your money ain't good.
Well, hey, I got a plug, I canget some dope in here.
We could you know, like, if youget the dope in, why you ain't
doing it.
You're right, yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
But you know the crazy part about it.
I was fortunate because, like Isaid, a lot of crazy stuff was
happening and I sat down with mysister one of my older sisters
sat down with me and she askedme she said what is it gonna
take for you to stop hustling?
Because I'm making three-waycalls to her to make doing deals
(21:00):
over?
And she is not even awarebecause she's like, okay, she
just set the phone down and I'mdoing all these deals over the
phone.
And I told her I said well, I'mdoing this to protect you.
I wasn't trying to protect her,I was just being a, I was being
selfish motherfucker.
And, just to be real about it,she sat me down and she said
what is it gonna take for you tostop hustling?
And I remember telling her Isaid if you send me $100 a month
(21:22):
, I'll stop hustling.
And she said done, and this was.
And this was back in like 2000and six, seven, somewhere, like
that, and every single month,without fail, she sent me $100.
And now now I'm like am I gonnabe sleazy or am I gonna be a
(21:46):
person of integrity?
And I think that was one of thefirst moments when my new
character started to show itwasn't that old manipulative.
Oh, I can get this, but I ain'tgonna let her know that I'm
still doing this.
I'm gonna because I really feltshe genuinely cared about me
when she made that sacrifice forme and to this day she still do
it and I honor her by beingtrue to my word to her, that's
(22:11):
dope.
A lot of people do not have thatand it's hard to sign and go
over to.
We call the child hall a diet,because even if you go to all
three meals you're still goingto lose weight.
I'm on the child hall diet.
You know, even if you go overthere you're still going to lose
weight because it's just notenough and so if you don't have
some support it's hard.
(22:31):
So it makes all those otheroptions more tempting.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And you know, like I said before, like we thrived on
that, on that lifestyle, on therisk, on the, on the high
intensity, you know movement.
But I recall, like the samefeeling, man, once I decided
like all right, I'm at thatpoint, I need to start staying
out of trouble, and I startedletting a couple of them, little
(22:58):
high risk hustles, go.
I started focusing on like artand all that and I started
getting money from family.
You know, my dad startedputting money on the phone.
Actually, I remember before mydad started contributing for
real, because my dad didn'talways contribute, it was more
like two, three times a year hewould give me something.
So it was like my mom, mysisters, my girl, you know
(23:22):
people that really felt theburden of it, that was trying to
give me something and it wasn'tregular.
So before then it was allprovided by me, by my hustle
hand.
I didn't care what risk I tookwith it because it was all me.
But when I understood like theycan't afford to be doing this
for real and they doing it Now,I'm like I ain't gambling no
(23:47):
more.
I ain't, you know, I ain'tgoing trying to smoke no more.
I ain't buying no Foxies, nomore.
I used to buy, I used to cook,I used to be able to microwave
two times a day, every day.
I was like man, that shit gotto stop.
And like I got so cheap, I gotso frugal, you know.
(24:09):
And then when it got to thepoint where a little more
regular money started coming in,that's when my conscience
really started kicking in, likeI ain't about to put them
through this, you know, I ain'tabout to.
They sending me money, theytrying to look out and keep me
out of trouble, and you know,they see, you know they can't
even come visit because I'm in ahole or something crazy, you
(24:30):
know.
So that was like the first stepto having a conscience and some
doing some positive futureplanning, because before they
and I ain't planning for thefuture.
I was like we got 10 years.
We in year two, we got eightyears to go.
We got to eat.
You know, like that's the way Iwas talking about something
like we got to eat, I don't care.
(24:53):
And towards the end it was likeyo, you ain't got to do that,
I'm all right.
You know, I go to the child.
I got to, you know, and theywas like no, no, you tell us all
the stories Like, yeah, butit's sustenance.
I ain't going down therebecause it tastes good, I'm
going down there because I caneat.
You know, if I got to eat asingle ramen noodle, like fuck
(25:14):
it.
That's what I'm going to do.
And it's like that paradigmshift of personality and
responsibility was like epic,because it set the foundation
for everything else to come.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I noticed that when Inoticed this change in how my
family deal with me.
I've talked, I've made amendswith all my family and one of
the things that I had to helpthem understand is I can now
appreciate what you guys havedone for me.
You know like my sisters havealways treated me like a brother
(25:49):
, but also like a son.
You know they always theyalways saw that they would think
they were taking care of me.
And I know over the years andmy parents have as well.
But I know over the years, mysisters particularly how I took
advantage of them a lot.
And my mother, when she startedfeeling guilty, when she felt
(26:10):
guilty because she believed thatshe's I'm the reason why she's
in here.
I have to tell her mind, you'renot the reason why I'm in here,
I'm the reason why I'm in here.
But there was a time, I think,capitalized off of that her
guilt and try to get more.
My father was been a writersince the day one, took
advantage of him, and mystepmother, marva I, was that
(26:32):
individual that only understoodand cared about what I needed
and even though I know I was aburden on them, I'm like what's
you, hey?
That's the part of being in mylife.
But I've also been in a timewhen I had no one, and when I
had no one.
That's when the grime is reallystart coming out of me.
(26:52):
But now I've got people in mylife that I am just
overwhelmingly appreciative ofand every single day I try to do
something to honor them.
Maybe they may not see it, butjust stand out of the way.
If you send me something, Ithought I thought I'd keep an
ledger of how much money I spenda month, how much money I spend
(27:14):
in commissary, how much moneyis going out, how much money is
going in, because I have to beconscious of this, because
they're my source of revenue,and I told you when you came to
visit me.
I said I normally I can't doanything from you, but I can
honor our friendship by doingall the little things that I can
do right now.
And it's not always about askingyou for money, it's not asking
(27:35):
you to do anything, because yourfriendship enough is what I
value.
It's not what you can do for me, but it's just your friendship.
I've gained a deeperappreciation for people.
So, the same way, myunderstanding of people has
changed.
My hustle has changed to wherenow I'm hustling for information
, I'm hustling for my future,I'm hustling to transfer a
(27:57):
knowledge that I took over inthe street life and apply it
over into being a man, you know,and being an adult, being a
brother, being a husband, beinga nephew, being all the things
that I wish to become and thethings that I am right now.
That's what all my investmentgoes into, and I know it's
making me a better man, becausemy relationships are better with
the people that I did with thanit was in fact being.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, that's dope.
And you know, I want to kind oflike circle this back around to
the beginning of theconversation, where we talked
about like me picking up allthis time at work, and we always
talk about that.
One thing I always said is likewhen I don't feel like it, I
just get up and do it.
And then also it kind ofrelates to this whole journey of
(28:44):
progression that we're talkingabout, um, applying that old
mentality of hustling to my newlife.
You know, like it's, I didn'tgive up everything from the old
me.
I had to reinvent and repurposeit.
So now, when I be like, youknow, back then it was like, oh
(29:05):
man, you know everything fuckedup.
I got to go out here and get it.
However I can get it.
Now I realized that I've learnedtoo much.
I have too many options to takethat bad choice, the easy
choice yeah, it's easier, butthe risk level go up, and now I
(29:26):
got way too much shit to berisking, you know, and not only
is it monetary, not only is itfamily, you know a house or a
car and all that stuff to lose.
But I set too much of a goodexample for me to take that bad
choice and suffer theconsequences for everybody
that's following behind me,absolutely, you know.
(29:48):
So, instead of being like man,I mean, I still got homies
that's in the street.
I'm still trying hard to youknow when they ear get them out,
but I could easily call themlike man, fuck it.
I need some money and you knowI'm fortunate enough that those
people that I do keep contactwith would say no, right, they
(30:12):
would say no.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
They know you, they know the new you.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah.
So it's that even consideringanything like that, I'd be like
I'm going to pick up a day here,I'm going to go pick up a day
here, I'm going to pick up ahalf a day here.
Man, hey, it's a program, I cango do this, I can do that, I
can do a speech, I can dowhatever I need to to get
anything done.
And not only does it benefit meand whatever I'm trying to
(30:37):
pursue, but it also benefits mein setting that example and
showing the possibilities forthe people that's coming behind
me, cause I'm trying to tell you, man in the joint, it was, it
was too easy, like I know.
I understand that everythingthat we're talking about I want
to say that for the audience,everything we're talking about
is ill gotten gains.
So when I say it's easy in thejoint to make some money, if you
(31:02):
got somebody in thereincarcerated, I don't want you
to be like it's easy for you toget money.
I ain't got to send you that.
What I'm saying is it's easy tomake the bad choices to get
fast cash, and some of themchoices aren't benign.
Some of those choices can landyou more time.
You know, yeah, if you get in afight, you could land some more
(31:24):
time.
You know, depending on how yougo, if you mess around and get
caught with a certain amount ofthe wrong stuff.
You know, trying to get somemoney, you could mess around and
get some more time, like you'renot immune just because you're
already in prison.
So I do keep that in mind, likewhen I'm I mean I did 72 hour a
(31:45):
week, no 70 hours, 70 hour aweek last week.
You know I'm like so.
And my wife, she don'tunderstand it because she like
that's too much, even thoughit's all time that would
normally be doing nothing oreverybody else is busy I'm not
missing out time with the family, but she's like that's too much
.
And I'm like you don'tunderstand the level of hustle I
(32:08):
had before I was this person,you know.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, but do you understand where she's coming
from?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I do.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
She's coming from the .
I understand the money, but oneof her concerns is also just
you.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
No, no, I'm not talking about the money I'm not
talking about the money I'mtalking about.
Like, sometimes it's not evenabout the money, that's not even
the reason we hustle sometimes,like you, you just, you know,
you're just, you know, you'rejust, you know, you're just said
it.
When you give up that hustle,it was a while where life was
weird.
I know what to do, you know.
When people come around like yo, I got some tickets, you like,
(32:42):
nah, bro, I don't even do that,no more.
But I don't really, I don'treally know what.
I don't know.
I don't know what I do now.
But I don't do that now.
I'm like you know, you, howmany times you just spent just
walking around the track tryingto figure out what the fuck you
about to do with your day?
Like, my days when I firststopped hustling was like empty,
yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
It was hard cause you always saw it.
You always saw some angle thatyou always saw something you can
get into.
Covid hit man these guys downhere was making like 10, 15, 30
million.
I mean about $30,000 just doingstrips and with that other
stuff that they doing out there.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
No, we spread on the paper.
Uh, what's that like?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
The Toochie.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, toochie, the synthetic weed, the acid strips.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
They were making a killing down here and everyone's
saying like look man, I meanlike $30,000.
I mean I'm sitting like nope,nope, nope, nope, I ain't doing
it, I'm not doing it.
And I remember talking toChristine about it and I'm
telling you, just having a goodwoman is just it's amazing.
So I remember killing her thatthe one thing that would hurt me
(33:57):
is you have one minuteremaining for me to do something
and she looked me in my faceand said you were a liar.
And I never would have botheredme before.
But for her to say you are aliar about everything you said
and everything you said you were, that would bother me now,
(34:17):
because I worked so hard to seta standard of a man that I am
and so why those things weretempting.
I didn't want to be smirking mycharacter or the standard in
which I said to where she canlook me in my eyes, and all this
time I invested everything.
I would have did it anyway, butnot for a liar that would have
(34:38):
crushed me and it's so hard tobuild that reputation twice.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I say it's hard to build that reputation twice,
coming from our already workingbackground that's just strange
how that, how that changedbefore.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
I can care what a person call me a liar.
Okay, I'm a liar, you again inmy cheer.
I'm a manipulator up y'all mallthat, but just let me get what
I want.
But now that that that willcrush me that's dope thank you
for using Gtl back on topic.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Back on topic, it was something I wanted to talk
about, so we didn't talk aboutall this money is possible to
get in prison, right, and I'mgonna tell you, man, I believe
in mentorship and I've met a lotof people that I mentor me over
the years in prison, and one ofmy dudes man, even though he
was still kind of in thescheming and everything in in a
(35:33):
way, he showed me how to lookoutside the box, you know,
because I was still like tryingto figure out what I was gonna
do when I got home, how I wasgonna not just go straight back
to the streets and I walk overtwo rows and I'm sitting on a
locker box talking to him.
He like, oh yeah, man, I just,I just did this, I'm build my
(35:58):
credit, already got a 700.
I'm like, wait a minute, whatwe in prison he done been down
like eight years at this time.
He like, yeah, I got like a 700, I just bought this, a
videography equipment, and I'mgonna go home and do all this
stuff.
And sure enough, man, he camehome.
He started this media company,was doing some nice stuff, man,
(36:22):
but he didn't focus on that.
He ended up losing it all.
But it opened my eyes though.
Like this dude just built awhole damn company from nothing,
from inside a prison justmaking small preparations, man,
or like you know.
Or like you know, I got a littleextra money.
I'm gonna send some money homeand put it in a CD, you know
(36:45):
what?
Whatever it is, I'm, I don'twant to spend it, I want to blow
it.
I'm blowing it on littledebbies and and whatever
temptation comes around because,like we said, when you mess
around and lose focus, or youmess around and get that little
bout of depression and all of asudden every single thing has
(37:06):
the potential to distract you.
My bank account was going down.
So it's all types of options tostay the course or even advance
that I ain't think about backthen, man, mostly because of
where I come from, like I ain'tknow nothing about no IRAs, no
CDs, no, you know nothing toreally do with my money.
(37:28):
You know to secure it or makemoney back then.
So it's interesting to hearlike do's, this do's, was
getting all this money and I'mwondering, like where all that
money at right now, well, Ithink.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
I think that's one of the major problems in here.
We may, they don't give youwrong.
They have financial literacyclasses and they have money
smart.
But I'll speak for a lot ofguys that I came in with.
We really had no concept of thevalue of money, but we had it,
but it didn't matter if you blewit, because you just go back
(38:07):
out on the block and make more.
And even in here we don't.
We don't have tangible moneyanymore.
Like I remember when I was inLucasfield.
I remember I saw my firsthundred dollar bill, the new
hundred dollar bills, and I waslike what the hell is that do's
press?
They had a fan of a $500 and heshowed them to me and he was
like this was the new money,look like out there.
I'm like, wow, I don't evenlook like money that I know.
(38:30):
And then when I was a webinar,we send money home by wrapping
it in a carbon paper and sendingit out.
But you don't really have moneymoney anymore, like tangible
money in here.
Everyone's doing these cashapps and everything like that
and when you, when you, getmoney sent in from from the
streets, it's just on a computerthat says this is that this is
(38:51):
your balance.
So we blow through moneywithout even knowing it.
And I told you not until I startkeeping the ledger of how much
money was coming in, how muchmoney was going out, that I
started knowing that I have aspending pattern and my spending
pattern is this every threemonths.
I go broke every three months,but I'll say I'm 90 days, I'm at
(39:15):
like a dollar 85, a dollar four, and then I'll go all the way
back up to $2,300 and in 90 daysit goes all the way back down.
And what I started noticing wasthe more money I get, the more
money I spend, and not until Iget to the end do I stop like oh
, maybe I need to pull up alittle bit.
(39:36):
And so what I had to starttelling myself.
I said you have to startvaluing the money.
You have to think if I don'tget any more money and how long
can this sustain me?
And no, don't know, I stillhave to get my hygiene, I still
have to send my $20 home to youa month.
I'm still doing all the thingsI'm supposed to.
(39:57):
How can I make this money besustained and last for as long
as possible into that nextinflux of money coming in and a
lot of us don't do that.
When I first got down here, theyhad accidentally sent me all
the money that I spent as I'vebeen in prison and it was like
tens of thousands of dollars andI'm like I didn't have anything
to show for it, not a singlething out of that idiot of
(40:19):
things that they said that Ipurchased through commissary,
through food and clothes boxes,through TV, through electronics,
or I didn't have anything toshow for any of that.
And I'm like man, imagine inall these years 20, 30 years if
I would have started saving 10,$15 back then, $20 back then,
(40:41):
even though it's not, it's not afortune, it's a hell of a lot
more than I got now.
But I did.
I didn't practice these things.
I didn't understand the valueof what money was.
I just understood when I havean imposed, suspended and that's
a consumer mindset.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Well, that is very much a consumer mindset, but it
is also because of the situationin prison.
We tend to focus on the routine.
We tend to focus on today,that's it, you know.
So when you got a routine inyour routine involves spending
(41:15):
money, then you routinely spendmoney.
And I remember when the firsttime I had that concept of money
and worth in prison, I spentlike $5,000 in like a couple
months.
I was putting a hundred dollarsa week on the phone.
I was, I mean, really itprobably more than that, because
my family was putting money onthe phone too.
(41:36):
I was putting money on thephone.
I would just sit there forhours on the phone yeah and,
like I said, I was cooking twicea day.
I was doing all this.
I would cook and give it awaybecause I wasn't hungry, like I
was, like damn.
So I have no concept.
I don't know what, how muchmoney I spent over them 10 years
(41:57):
, but I know for sure there wastoo much.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
It was entirely too much and we don't, we don't it's
like.
Now I'm beginning to understand.
I really don't have a greatgrasp on it yet, but I'm
beginning to understand thevalue of it and I think that
would be more.
It would have more impact on meonce I'm actually home and I
understand the value of work tomoney, the value of my effort to
(42:22):
money, the value of my time tomoney, to where it would have
more impact to me.
But yeah, that's one of thepitfalls of making money in here
, because, as you and I weretalking last time we did this,
you can be a king living hereoff of $300 a month.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Oh yeah, prison rich.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah, it's prison rich, and so the longer you have
all the ladies and all thegreaties you can, people come to
you all day.
You go to him because he'salways on by something.
It's like oh yeah yeah, I'mdoing well in here and the
hustle mentality doesn't change.
I don't care where you are atthe moment and that you're
making.
A mentality is there, but youalso have to have a value of
(43:09):
your time, your effort, yourenergy and well as what you're
sacrificing.
That's what.
That's what counting.
The cost is how much a personalself is this gonna cost me if I
do this?
We always like to give my timeup, but how much a personal self
is it gonna cost me for me tomake this decision or for me to
do this action or for me to getinvolved with this person,
(43:31):
because you might not be able toafford the consequence?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
You know, I just had a conversation with my 11 year
old and my seven year old at myfive year old, like two days ago
, and we were talking aboutwasting, you know, and we were
talking about why I get so madwhen they waste stuff.
Because they were kind of likemaking fun of me for a minute
(43:57):
and I let it go.
But then I kind of got seriousand gave them a little speech
and I was like, man, listen,from now on I want all of you
guys to think about things interms of time.
And they're like what do youmean?
Of course there's 11, seven andfive.
What the fuck are you talkingabout?
(44:18):
And I said I said, baby, youremember when you told me you
wanted to watch?
And she was like yeah, I waslike that watch cost me like 40
bucks.
I said do you know where thatwatch is right now?
She got real quiet.
I said exactly.
I said you're not in troublefor losing the watch.
(44:40):
I said but what's the firstthing I told you when I gave you
the watch?
Don't take it off.
I said right, I said I don'ttell you this stuff is
punishment.
I tell you it as advice.
I said so now I want you to.
We were driving, so I looked outthe windows of gas station.
I said how much you think itcost to work there at the gas
station?
How much you think you pay?
(45:01):
You know, probably like $13 anhour.
Great, I said how many hours doyou have to buy just to work,
just to buy that watch?
So she started doing the math.
You know 13, 26,.
You know 39.
Yeah Well, I got to work thismany hours.
I said wrong.
She looked at me like what?
I did a math right?
(45:21):
I said no, because you got paidtaxes.
So then we do the little mathon the taxes.
I did that for her.
I said, all right, so now howmany hours you got to work?
So they do the math again andthey tell me I said wrong.
And they were like why?
I said because now you got topay sales tax to buy it.
So this is the actual price ofthe watch.
(45:42):
And they were like oh man, sonow, like, so now, how much you
know?
So we go through this for aminute.
And so I'm like all right, nowlisten, if you count up all the
stuff I buy for you the watch,your socks, your shoes, the
stuff they just leave places.
You went to school and camehome without a coat.
How the fuck that happened.
(46:05):
So I'm like, how often?
I was like, how much do you seeme go to work?
And so they started thinking,like all the time?
I was like, yeah, like all thetime.
So I told them how many hours Iworked last week.
I'm like how often do you thinkI would have to go to work if I
didn't have to keep replacingthings that was lost or broken?
(46:27):
Yeah, it's for you, but foryour sister, for your brother,
for your other sister, for stuffin the house that just you know
, over time falls apart.
You know, I was like man, Icould probably I don't know,
probably work two days less aweek.
I said, man, I'm not sayingthis to be hard on them, but I
(46:52):
was like man, I'm telling youthis because I do it out of love
, I do it because it's myresponsibility, no doubt, but I
would do it anyway because itmeans that you don't have to.
So we went on and on and on.
But that was my point is likeyou know, we didn't.
I didn't have no sense ofresponsibility when I was
getting fast money Right, likeit was stuff that I purposely
(47:16):
sacrificed to throw them off thescent, the trail of some other
stuff that I was doing Like Idon't give a fuck about that man
.
As long as they don't get this,I'm cool.
You know, I get that back.
That's the whole hustlingmentality.
So I'm gonna get that back.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
Yeah, get that back.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You know you don't follow, so you don't blow money
so easily.
Speaker 5 (47:34):
You know you can always get it back.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Any true hustler in the history of hustling gonna
tell you they done fell off20,000 times.
Hell might've fell off weekly.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
But we don't get that back.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
It's a constant, you know, trying to outpace the
losses, you know.
And it's like man, like youthink about that rich people
mentality that you hear about sooften, where it's like, and
Carlos Slim say he lived in thesame house he had before he was
rich, same car he had before hewas rich.
He, a billionaire, now rankedas one of the most rich men in
(48:12):
the world, still driving thesame old shit.
We might be thinking likethat's stupid, but that's
because we broke.
We broke.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
You know Exactly.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
And you hear dudes like in rap songs.
It's probably not true, butit's a very impactful statement
where they like I think I heardLil Wayne say like I'm still
spending money from 1990, notyou know, yeah, that's a Steve
Jobs.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
Steve Jobs wore the same clothes.
Imagine how much money youspent on clothes a year.
He wore the same outfit.
We think, oh man, why would youwear the same thing?
But he like that's not thepoint.
My clothes is irrelevant.
If something clean, ifsomething I can put on, if
something I can go out.
But it's like all of theseother things.
That's part of the penitentiaryhustle.
(49:02):
You wanna have the latest shoes.
You wanna have the latest, thenicest watches.
You wanna have the slickestclothes.
You wanna have the exclusivewater model that no one else has
.
It's like always trying tooutshine it.
Just like out there, you alwaystrying to outshine it outdo
everyone else to let them knowyeah, I got it.
I don't have to go to the childhall.
I could be out of my box forthe next six months.
(49:24):
You know, just because I haveit's like those things is this
messed up mentality that we have.
That's part of that hustlermentality.
It's not just getting money,it's spending money.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, I think some of it was scheming too.
Speaker 5 (49:41):
Because I can't.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I think some of it was scheming, because there were
times where I'd be like I justgot a food box.
Somebody that kind of is likeoff and on come into your life
and be like y'all wanna buy yourfood box.
You don't need it, probablycan't even fit it in your box
right now, but you're like oh,hold on, order this from a homie
name.
You ain't gonna let that go,you ain't gonna let the
(50:02):
opportunity go.
Or buy me these shoes and justinstantly sell the shoes, just
for no reason.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
But, like on my heyday, when I was at the very
top, I was in Lebanon and we hadlocker boxes and several
different people sales.
We had so many cigarettes itwas ridiculous.
We was blowing cigarettes likeit was nothing.
That's when it was.
I was still on hours of smoke,but we had so much that we
didn't really need to doanything else.
(50:34):
But we got greedy and that'seventually how we got knocked.
But we just had so much.
And I can say every singlemorning when I woke up, it
wasn't about how is the familydoing.
It wasn't about, damn, how am Igonna get home.
It was about how am I gonna getthese eight balls off?
How am I gonna get this over toJ-John?
How am I gonna get this down toE-Edward?
(50:55):
How is that gonna?
Oh, I gotta make sure.
Make sure he's paying people tothat money.
Oh, dude going on a visit today, so make sure he get that back.
And then, once we get that back, we're gonna go ahead and cut
it up and I'm gonna give it to.
It was about that every singleday, every single day.
And then I'm respecting someoneelse's house, so I'll throw him
some play.
And he respected my house, sohe throwed me some play and it
was just an economy in there andit was never about anything
(51:19):
other than hustling.
That's all that mattersSometimes from time up to time
down, and it made the time go sofast that, yeah, I forgot it, I
was doing time.
And then when all of it stopped, yeah, time started picking up
again.
It's like getting heavier again.
I'm like damn, only a week wentby.
Hey, I guess it's been likethree years.
(51:41):
Yeah, it's like getting heavyagain.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
But I think a major part of giving that up is a
contentment, and we usecontentment in both a good word
as a good word and a bad word,and a good way and a bad way.
It's like when you becomecontent with not having the
stuff you don't need, then youstart realizing, like I got a
lot more resources than I hadbefore.
(52:06):
Yeah, you know, because I ain'tbuying a bunch of bull stuff.
You know, we not saying don'tget to the point where you
content you ain't striving to dobetter.
That's a different type ofcontentment.
But when you like I don't needto be involved in this, man, I
don't need to have the best andneed to show off this, and that
(52:27):
I don't need to Cook twice a dayor pay somebody to cook for me,
it's like come on, man, calmdown, pull back and Figure out
what do I need, what do I notneed With the stuff that I don't
need?
What else could I do with thoseresources?
Speaker 5 (52:44):
Yeah, you start putting the things that's
important.
Important, like I say now youkeep in my word to my family, to
Christine, to you Meansomething more to me than money.
Me having the respect of thoseindividuals that I just named
means more to me than Some newshoes.
(53:06):
It's like when you startUnderstanding the focus of where
your life is supposed to be andstart understanding the worth
of things.
I didn't understand the worthof people, for they was always
something for me to use, butonce you start understanding the
worth of people, thenEverything that you do start
mattering, because you knoweverything that I'm doing is
(53:27):
going to affect someone.
Okay, what you do, everythingyou do, is going to affect
someone and and with the coming,with that understanding, this
is where maturity comes from.
And a lot of ticket ticket alot of us, some longer than
others, to Fully mature and tobe in men.
There's so many 50-60-70 yearold people in here that is young
(53:53):
and immature in their mind.
They're young and immature, butI think I didn't become mature
until I was 40.
I didn't get it.
I came in at 18 and it took 22years before I was like Well,
maybe I need to grow up andmaybe the way I'm living ain't
the way it is I'm supposed to.
And over these last eight yearsI I still I've developed into
(54:17):
being a man, and that's someonethat I can look in the mirror, I
can present in front of anyonewithout shame and embarrassment
of amelioration and say I'mproud of who I am today.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Oh, but that cost something that's all right,
though.
Yeah, it ain't no price that Iwouldn't pay for that.
Speaker 5 (54:38):
Nope, none, none.
So yeah, but the hustle.
There's nothing wrong with thehustle.
What are you hustling for?
What are you hustling for?
And if you take that mentalityand tour in the tour something
that's going to benefit, youmake it an investment, then a
(54:58):
hustle all day.
I hustle all day long.
All day long.
Now I'm doing commerce andinformation.
I'm doing commerce andcharacter building and building
relation.
That's my new commerce.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
So yeah, I enjoy it and all of that stuff that you
doing is not just to better you.
I mean that stuff that thatpeople see like.
I Learned that that when Istarted moving different, when I
start Consistently making theharder choices, the better
choices, all the dudes that wasrunning with me you know it was
(55:33):
a few of them that was like Damn, like what you doing over there
.
Like now they got they curious.
Now you didn't affect somebodyelse's life in a positive way.
You know, if you can be thatone candle in the dark room,
somebody gonna look.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Now.
I've said it's a little easierto make them hard decisions,
because you realize that it'snot just you.
Speaker 5 (56:00):
No, it's not.
It's interesting when peoplestart associating you,
associating you with good thingsinstead of negative ones.
You know, when people say yourname like oh yeah, man, I heard
you was a good dude man, I knowI told you I can count how many
times people that when I firstmet you I wanted to beat you up.
I didn't even like you on mywhy it's like you?
(56:20):
Just, I don't know you justlike you would just air again.
You just you just had my bra.
That is not me.
They're like oh yeah, I knowthat now.
But when I saw you from adistance, like you always seem
to be going somewhere and he wasjust going to do something, he
just doing too much.
And and I told him, I said oneof the things that I understand
is I Am here to help people.
I get that now.
I did.
I didn't understand that beforeand the way I help is through
(56:44):
teaching.
I I have been given an abilityto discern things, information.
I can break it down to thesimplest understanding for
anyone.
Again, and I don't take thatfor granted.
I didn't want to do that.
Like I told you before, Iwanted to be a rapper, but that
just wasn't in the cars for meto do but really.
(57:05):
I'm a teacher.
Yeah, I tried it, which is it'sa lot harder than people I
Never.
People think it is.
I respect anyone who's made it.
I respect what they do, cuzthat stuff is not easy.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
But I never heard you rap or nothing.
Man you know in prison.
That's where are you here.
Anybody rap that you Know?
Speaker 5 (57:28):
what that was that was back like, but I thought I
thought I could.
But yeah, I'm just you.
That that's just not good.
I'm as bad as rapping as I amdancing and I cannot dance.
So, yeah, but yeah.
But I'm a teacher and and Ienjoy teaching, I enjoy talking,
I enjoy watching the process ofa person going from a state of
(57:50):
not knowing but that realizationof now I know and walking in
confidence.
I enjoy watching thedevelopment for individual.
That that gives me joy, becausenow I say now is two of us and
it's a great feeling to justhave a person say man, you saved
my life Because I had someoneteach me and I was able to tell
(58:11):
them that and Like, yeah,without, without you, if you
didn't take the time to walkwith me and show me and help me
understand and be patient Withme as I was going through that
learning phase, I Don't knowwhat I would have been that's
the new hustle.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I changed your lives.
Man, without any, without anydirect Come up you know, you
ain't always looking for theprofit, it's always just like
yeah, I help.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
I remember doing something about Johnny Apples.
He did that, johnny Apples.
He planted thousands of treesand never got one of them, that
never got a chance to see one ofthem grow Um to a fruition.
And that's how I think aboutindividuals.
I'm planting a thousand seedsbut I may not see the fruits of
it, but that's okay.
I know the potential of what Iplanted in you and I know, if
(58:57):
you allow it to grow.
I know the kind of person thatyou're going to become as a
result of it, and I played apart of it.
So that's all that matters tome.
Am I planning good seed?
Am I setting good examples?
Am I showing you something orwhat a man can be and the care
he's supposed to have to be abetter husband, better father,
better brother, better Neighbor,better person so that you know
that you are deserving of havingsomeone like that in your life
(59:20):
and therefore you can be that tosomeone as well?
Speaker 3 (59:23):
You know we talked about reputation right, and the
respect of people you love andnot willing to compromise.
That I remember, you know,coming at a joint or going to a
different joint when I was young, when I was first coming in,
where your reputation waseverything and what they use,
(59:45):
the adjectives they use todescribe you, was way different
and you had an aversion to thosegood qualities for real Like.
If somebody was like I heardyou was a thorough ass, nigga
man, you're real nigga man.
You, you could fight, you couldhustle, you could do whatever.
You know you heartless, youlike hell yeah, hell yeah.
You know Somebody like thoseare great compliments.
Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
I was a cop.
Those are compliments.
Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Yeah, somebody be like oh man, dude, you know,
yeah, he'll help you.
Like not a hell.
No, you know like I don't wantnobody get the idea that they
can come around here and just beasking for shit.
And you know, and it was likeif somebody was like yo, I heard
you was a nerd.
Like you, smart, you like hell.
No, you know Like we downcastanything that was good back then
(01:00:31):
.
Nowadays it's like somebodycome around like yo, I heard you
was a hustler scheme.
Are you like hell?
No, hold on now.
Who told you something likethat?
I ain't.
I don't want none of thatattached to my name.
No more, none of thosequalities.
You know, the stuff that got usahead back then is the stuff
that we want nothing to do withnowadays because it's
counterproductive and all thestuff that I wanted nobody to
(01:00:56):
associate with me Is all thestuff that I seek to be now like
, yeah, I'm smart, yeah, I'mhelpful, yeah, I'm a reliable
yeah, you know, responsible.
Like who the fuck is he?
I?
Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Was just, I was just talking to this one guy and
again we were talking aboutparole prep and he was like,
yeah, man, I was gonna do it.
Man, you know, you got, you gotto get some outside people and
you know, start a littlecommunity program out there and,
you know, take some picturesand let them know that's what
you're doing.
And I told him, I said thatdoesn't work for me.
I thought I'd be passionateabout anything that I'm about,
but what was really in the backof my mind, that's manipulation.
(01:01:35):
Yeah and and I was tellingChristina to some people they
can do that.
It's like if you're analcoholic and I'm you have one
minute remaining drink thisglass of champagne back.
Well, I can't go to.
I mean, it's just like that's achampagne.
Okay, for you is just glass ofchampagne To me.
It's gonna take me down a paththat I don't want to return to.
So Anything that reeks ofmanipulation, anything that
(01:01:58):
reeks of use of another person,I distance myself from because I
don't want to be known as thatperson anymore.
But I gotta go.
I love you, bruh.
As always, great conversation,which you love.
Your energy is it as full aspossible and I will talk to you
sometime soon.
Tell Debbie any kids to say hiand love them all for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Yeah, I'll give you some.
It was a great conversation,man.
Thank you for being a part ofit and sharing your wisdom,
absolutely please.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Thank you for using gtl.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a
part of the bus sprout podcastcommunity network.
Lockdown to legacy is recordedat Kohatch in their lovely audio
file room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own remy Jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:03:00):
two Legacy comm, stories atlockdown to legacy comm.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on Facebook at thelockdown to legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the
inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
Yes, we are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system, outside ofprison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real.
And if that's not for you, wetotally understand, but please
do what's best for yourlistening ears.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, we're about to keep it real, son.
Our goal of this podcast is toshare the inside realities of
the American prison and criminaljustice system, from
pre-charges all the way topost-release, from the voices of
those who've experienced itfirsthand, including me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's right, let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
What's up, all my legacy fam.
Welcome back to another episodeof Lockdown of Legacy.
Of course I'm your host, remyJones, and this week we got
another episode of Warrant'sWisdom, so of course it'll be a
call Me and my guy, warren.
Tons of advisement dudes, justa wealth of wisdom, hence the
(01:53):
name of it.
This week we wanted to revisitone of our older episodes and
talk about that hustler'smentality.
We did the episode abouthustles in prison, which was
more in-depth on what allhustles are available and what
guys generally do to survive inthere.
Because this week we kind ofjust have a concept about the, a
(02:16):
conversation about thementality of hustling in prison
and kind of the development overtime, how it changes Me.
Personally, I feel like thehustler's mentality is not
necessarily a bad thing.
I generally still hold on to alot of that, a lot of that
mentality and a lot of skillsthat I developed as a hustler in
(02:39):
my now legit life.
And I feel like we did thatepisode about grit.
So it kind of ties into that.
But I'm not going to sit hereand yet man, appreciate you guys
for tuning in.
Please check out our website,man.
I'm trying to build that up.
It's still in the works, butleave me some feedback.
(03:00):
Let me know what you think.
What else Also hit me up onsocial media?
Tell me some of these topicsthat you guys want to hear about
.
If you got questions,especially if you got questions
directed at Warren or you gotquestions directed at Wise,
they've expressed their desireto give you guys feedback
(03:20):
directly.
So, like I said, hit us up.
Facebook the Lockdown the Legacy, podcast.
Instagram Lockdown the Legacy,twitter Lockdown the Legacy and
email stories atlockdownthelegacycom.
The website islockdownthelegacycom, so feel
free to go there.
Hit us up.
If you guys want to leavedonations.
(03:42):
There's a place where you cando that on there.
If you want to leave any typeof feedback, you can do it
directly on the website, and wegot the episode library.
It's in the works, it's growing, so just be sure to utilize
that.
Check it out, all right.
So that's it for the call and Ihope you guys enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
This is a prepaid debit call from.
Warren an inmate at the GraftonCorrectional Institution To
accept this call.
Press zero To refuse this call.
Hang up or press one To preventcalls from this.
This call is from a DRCCorrectional facility and is
(04:31):
subject to monitoring andrecording.
Utilization of an unapp,viruses and freeway calls to
communicate are strictlyprohibited and a violation of
PRC policies.
Thank you for using GTL Toprevent calls from this facility
.
This call is from a D RCCorrectional facility as such to
monitoring and recording.
It has a 프로 that you have anunapproved application and three
(04:53):
weight calls to communicate arestrictly prohibited and a
violation of DRC policy.
Thank you for using GTO.
Thank you for using GTO.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
What's up, brother?
What's going on, bro?
How are you?
I'm doing well, I boughtyourself.
Oh man, you know I'm doing allright, just working like a dog
man, just working like a dog.
Speaker 5 (05:13):
No, I read that he was like man.
I'm doing this much time andthis is like man.
This is don't have no time off.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Pretty much, pretty much.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
So what's the reason for the grind?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know I'm just trying to get refocused.
You know, recenter knows someof the goals that I had that
kind of got a little lax.
You know, not lax, but othergoals end up taking presidents.
So just trying to pick back upin order to do that, you got to
(05:45):
get some of this stuff that Iput on my plate off my plate,
you know.
Yeah, so it's.
I'm not going to say it's easy,but it's very lucrative to pick
up time For people that don'tknow.
I've been basically workinglike five and six day work weeks
alternating, which is why a lotwere eight, 12 hour days too.
(06:07):
So it's definitely a lot, butyou know it's.
I mean it could potentiallylike just by picking up two days
it could potentially doublewhat I bring home in a work week
.
So I mean just trying to try togrind hard, get ahead, you know
(06:28):
, renew some of that, some ofthat hustle, some of that grit
that I had when I first camehome.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Yeah, but have you accepted?
That is not like when you firstcame home.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Oh yeah, you came home.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
You was by yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
For sure, For sure, but also accepted that.
You know this is a we, this isfor us, not for me.
Oh yeah, so you know it's, wetalked about it.
You know we made a plan.
It's not something I'm about todo for a long time.
I just figured if I could do itfor, like, for a month, you
know then it'll be about that.
Speaker 5 (07:03):
You had a Debbie feel about it, but you said you just
talked about it.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well, debbie, she focused on PhD.
You know it's push time.
You know she graduated inDecember, so she's trying to
write that dissertation.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
OK, Dr Jones.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Right, right.
So she got to spend all hertime writing.
I'm like, why wouldn't I justgo to work then?
What am I going to do?
I mean, I could go and have asocial life.
But I'm like, nah, I'm allright.
You know I get off at four.
So by the time I get off, youknow that's when my kids come in
home from school.
So it's not like I'm out oftheir life by working more.
Right?
(07:39):
You know, if Debbie going towork, if it's a work day, I'm
out weekday.
You know she working duringthat time anyway.
So I would just be at homedoing house projects or you know
whatever, playing video games.
I'm like I'm all right.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
You know the interesting thing about that
because I just recently wentthrough something similar.
I noticed, when I'm not focused, I'm distracted by everything,
and everything starts to get tome, and easily.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I was telling Christine about that.
I said easily too.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Easily right and I was telling Christine about it.
And this is the benefit ofhaving a good woman.
A good woman knows how to putencouragement into your soul
when you really need it.
And she just spoke to me aboutknowing who I am, being
confident in what I can do,knowing my greatness and just
(08:40):
refocusing on the things.
That's necessary instead oflooking to the left and right.
There will always be someonethat can be better, but just
because they're better atsomething, don't diminish my
greatness.
And she talked to me one nightand, man, since that day, I've
been waking up on fire.
I mean, every single day I'vejust been grinding and just
(09:01):
doing everything that I know Ineed to do.
Even the moments when I don'twant to do it, I still get up
and do it, because one of thethings that I feel that we men
need from women is we needsomeone that can believe enough,
even in the moments when wedon't believe in ourselves.
And to have that in your cornermakes you feel like I don't just
(09:25):
want to do this for me.
Not only do I want to do it forme and you, but I also want to
give you a belief, the honorthat it deserved to have by you
extending it to me, and thatmakes a man feel powerful.
I know the notice.
That would be one all differentthat, but a man that has a
woman that truly believes in him.
And I ain't talking aboutsomeone who's just a selfish
bastard or anything like that,but I'm talking about a real man
(09:47):
that have a woman who believein him.
It makes him feel like I don'twant to let her down.
I don't want to diminish herbelief in me.
I don't want to weaken it by mylaziness or my insufficiencies
or just my neglect.
I want to put my ass to thegrinding and get it done.
(10:07):
And she put so much fire in me,mom, I'm telling you and that's
what I've been doing I can wakeup at 5, 5.30 every morning and
I'll bust my ass into 7.30 atnight just programming and doing
re-entries and trying to getthese individuals here I'm about
to sort of be on the phone withyou.
I'm about to do a parolepreparation class and just every
(10:30):
single thing I can do I'mwriting programs, I'm learning
how to write articles, I'mworking on putting a new play
together, I'm working on anotherof play, things with the older
linkies, and every single thingthat I'm doing it's like a
testimony of what this woman hasput into me simply by her
(10:51):
belief, and that's a powerfulthing to have.
To me, it is, that just is real.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
I actually wanted to talk about today.
We already did an episode aboutthe hustle hustle culture in
the side of the joint, but Iactually wanted to get your take
on that.
So I wanted to do a part two toit, because it's easy in there
(11:20):
if you don't really have focusor something to focus on, it's
easy to get in that feeling ofman.
You might be totally focused,you might be in the law library
every day working out, every dayprogramming, and all of a
sudden you just fall off and,yeah, it's kind of easy to just
(11:43):
get caught up in that.
I mean, to be honest, I can'tcount how many times I don't
went months within that 10 yearperiod where I didn't work out,
I ain't signed up for no newprograms, I ain't write nobody,
I ain't call nobody.
Like all of a sudden, like Inever watched TV before, all of
a sudden I had 10 TV shows I waswatching.
(12:03):
You know I was.
You know.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
And you've seen all of them before, All the movies
you saw before, all the TV, allyou just reruns.
But it's just easier to sitthere and crack open the box of
debuts and then go do a pushup.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I get it.
And that's what I was going tosay too.
Like all my eating habits, Istart eating junk food.
I started making Foxies, I was,you know.
All of a sudden I'm like damn,where are my money going, you
know.
But then, you know, hopefullyyou got somebody, whether it's a
family member or a good woman,in your life, wherever your
partner or even one of yourhomies around you, cause, you
(12:36):
know, we do got that littlecommunity in there and they be
like, hey, bro, tighten up, youknow, and they kind of renew
that spirit in you.
And next thing, you know, youdone got a new hustle.
You do got some new programsgoing.
You back in the library, youeven read five, six books this
month, you know.
And it's the same out here, butat the same time, like in there
(13:00):
, it's really necessary to havethem people around, because you
got a lot of free time.
You know, out here I can getoff work and I can be like man.
I'm gonna watch some TV for twohours.
Man, it's tired, get somethingto eat, go to bed.
But when you in there, you havepotential to benefit the most
(13:23):
from all that time you have, oryou have the potential to suffer
the most from all that time youwaste.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Well, that's the problem with being in here Like
out there if I don't work, Idon't eat, I get evicted, I'm
bumming, I can't do anything.
I'm living under a bridge andhere you can have a job that
only takes five minutes to doand then the rest of your day is
open and there's not reallyanything to force you to do
(13:51):
what's required of you.
So you have to beself-motivated.
I'll give you an example justrecently, I just recently found
out that the parole board hadmade new stipulations on with
their judging us off of, and itcame out in 2021.
I still have a parole handbookfrom 2017 and 2019.
(14:15):
Now, had I not been as vigilantas I am when I read and then ask
for information, I still wouldbe operating off obsolete
information.
But they did their job, theymade it available.
But if I'm just sitting herewondering about what basketball
game I'm gonna play or whatfundraiser I'm gonna get in, or
(14:38):
am I gonna try to trick this guyout or something, then I would
have missed out.
And so the hustle is different.
When I first came in, hustlingmeant money.
That's what it meant, and Ihustle.
I sold almost everything in thejoint.
I also drug toothbrush condoms.
I sold almost everything in thejoint.
(14:58):
But the hustle now is different,because now the hustle is about
information that's gonna get mehome, and you see guys around
here, especially at Grafton.
You see guys around here now.
They're hungry for theinformation because they let a
lot of guys go from here, and so, while the focus at one point
was on prison stuff, now thehustle is how can I get more
(15:22):
information, how can I learnmore, how can I connect more,
how can I network more?
Because homes start to becomemore important than prison.
So while you can go ahead andsell these strips and like a
thousand dollars a month from it, now you're like when do strips
make you?
It'd be two more years.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Facts.
You know the evolution of thathustle mentality, man, cause I
know I could tell you for a factand I know you just same thing,
cause you just ran off a listthat was pretty similar to mine
is when you walk in prison, yourhustle mentality.
I mean you might still havesome street hustle, depending on
(16:01):
what you was doing out there.
You might just be lost in thesauce until you stumble across
it or somebody you know turnyour lights on, get you hit.
But in the beginning it was alllike I'm selling drugs, I'm
selling porn, I'm selling, youknow, I'm shooting tattoos, I'm
selling art, yeah, gambling, youknow, at a certain point it's
(16:25):
like, all right, man, you gonnatry to stay out of trouble a
little bit, mostly because allthat stuff you've been doing
kind of funded some comfort towhere you kind of put it on
autopilot and stay away from ita little bit.
So you like, all right, man,I'm ironing clothes, I'm, you
know, you know whatever.
You know, and then you get tothat enlightened point at the
(16:48):
end where it's like renewed.
And you like, all right,hopefully, hopefully it's
renewed.
And you get that enlightenmentto where it's like, all right,
I'm trying to figure out ways tobuild my credit out there, I'm
trying to find jobs out there,I'm trying to network with
certain people and all of asudden it's like, like you said,
it's like, yeah, I could go andsell some dope.
I mean, it's certain stuffgoing around here where you can
(17:11):
legitimately make thousands ofdollars a month.
You can make almost what peoplemaking on the street with a
good job, you know.
But you know the risk ain'trewarding no more.
Like I used to thrive off therisk.
You know my punk.
He was making hooch, I wasshooting tattoos.
We was doing all this stuff,man.
(17:31):
It was like, oh, we just gotword, they about to do a
shakedown.
Oh, we just got word SRT coming.
Like we was, we thrived ongetting over on them and
thwarting their efforts, youknow.
Well, now you know, at the endof it it's like SRT coming, I'm
gonna fuck.
I ain't got nothing going on.
I don't think I can keep thatshit away from my punk.
I got nothing going on.
Keep that shit away from mypunk.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
It's interesting that you say that, because I
remember the mentality that Ihad when I first got locked up
and it was kind of taught to mewhich was, if us versus them, we
are the criminals and it'stheir job to catch us, but it's
our job to outsmart them.
(18:16):
And I remember when I was inLebanon I think I did about two
years in Lebanon this is beforethe FBI came to get me I
remember being so caught up inthe hustle I didn't even call
home.
I was just, it was just everysingle day.
(18:36):
And then back then theCincinnati guys, they had all
the weed down there.
So you get a ounce of weed.
We didn't really do anythingbecause you can only make $250
off an ounce a week of everyonehad it.
So you're getting out maybe $15, $16, $15 to $16 spoons.
It's like $100, you couldn'tmake any money, but we got the
crack in there.
(18:56):
We're making almost $1500 offof A-ball easily.
And it was so crazy that I wasjust doing everything down there
because I didn't even see homethe idea of going out and going
out into society.
That didn't even cross my mind.
It would cross my mind.
Okay, I gotta go over to JayJohn and pick up this and gotta
go make sure that Hernandez goover there and get that money
(19:19):
because he owes $200, keepingtrack of all of this it was.
I was just caught up in thehustle and the problem with that
is when you get out of thehustle you feel about that void
of the hustle Because I mean, ifyou're not getting any real
money in, it's hard doing time,and it is really really hard
(19:42):
doing time and pull towards.
You ain't even gonna sufferlike this man.
Go back, go home, get you apack, or go back and do this and
do this or no, try to.
It's okay instead of okay.
You ain't gotta sell drugs butjust want a football ticket or
do that or do that.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And I don't think for the listeners.
Man, I don't think they realizehow easy it is to get roped off
, especially if you alreadysolidified reputation as a
hustler.
Like people would come to youand be like, hey, why don't you
run my ticket for me?
You ain't gotta start nothing,I already got this, just run it
for me.
You know, here, just hold thisand run my store for me here,
(20:19):
just run it.
Like you already solidifiedyour reputation.
So people will come and seekyou out Like, oh, what's up what
?
Your money ain't good.
Well, hey, I got a plug, I canget some dope in here.
We could you know, like, if youget the dope in, why you ain't
doing it.
You're right, yeah.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
But you know the crazy part about it.
I was fortunate because, like Isaid, a lot of crazy stuff was
happening and I sat down with mysister one of my older sisters
sat down with me and she askedme she said what is it gonna
take for you to stop hustling?
Because I'm making three-waycalls to her to make doing deals
(21:00):
over?
And she is not even awarebecause she's like, okay, she
just set the phone down and I'mdoing all these deals over the
phone.
And I told her I said well, I'mdoing this to protect you.
I wasn't trying to protect her,I was just being a, I was being
selfish motherfucker.
And, just to be real about it,she sat me down and she said
what is it gonna take for you tostop hustling?
And I remember telling her Isaid if you send me $100 a month
(21:22):
, I'll stop hustling.
And she said done, and this was.
And this was back in like 2000and six, seven, somewhere, like
that, and every single month,without fail, she sent me $100.
And now now I'm like am I gonnabe sleazy or am I gonna be a
(21:46):
person of integrity?
And I think that was one of thefirst moments when my new
character started to show itwasn't that old manipulative.
Oh, I can get this, but I ain'tgonna let her know that I'm
still doing this.
I'm gonna because I really feltshe genuinely cared about me
when she made that sacrifice forme and to this day she still do
it and I honor her by beingtrue to my word to her, that's
(22:11):
dope.
A lot of people do not have thatand it's hard to sign and go
over to.
We call the child hall a diet,because even if you go to all
three meals you're still goingto lose weight.
I'm on the child hall diet.
You know, even if you go overthere you're still going to lose
weight because it's just notenough and so if you don't have
some support it's hard.
(22:31):
So it makes all those otheroptions more tempting.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
And you know, like I said before, like we thrived on
that, on that lifestyle, on therisk, on the, on the high
intensity, you know movement.
But I recall, like the samefeeling, man, once I decided
like all right, I'm at thatpoint, I need to start staying
out of trouble, and I startedletting a couple of them, little
(22:58):
high risk hustles, go.
I started focusing on like artand all that and I started
getting money from family.
You know, my dad startedputting money on the phone.
Actually, I remember before mydad started contributing for
real, because my dad didn'talways contribute, it was more
like two, three times a year hewould give me something.
So it was like my mom, mysisters, my girl, you know
(23:22):
people that really felt theburden of it, that was trying to
give me something and it wasn'tregular.
So before then it was allprovided by me, by my hustle
hand.
I didn't care what risk I tookwith it because it was all me.
But when I understood like theycan't afford to be doing this
for real and they doing it Now,I'm like I ain't gambling no
(23:47):
more.
I ain't, you know, I ain'tgoing trying to smoke no more.
I ain't buying no Foxies, nomore.
I used to buy, I used to cook,I used to be able to microwave
two times a day, every day.
I was like man, that shit gotto stop.
And like I got so cheap, I gotso frugal, you know.
(24:09):
And then when it got to thepoint where a little more
regular money started coming in,that's when my conscience
really started kicking in, likeI ain't about to put them
through this, you know, I ain'tabout to.
They sending me money, theytrying to look out and keep me
out of trouble, and you know,they see, you know they can't
even come visit because I'm in ahole or something crazy, you
(24:30):
know.
So that was like the first stepto having a conscience and some
doing some positive futureplanning, because before they
and I ain't planning for thefuture.
I was like we got 10 years.
We in year two, we got eightyears to go.
We got to eat.
You know, like that's the way Iwas talking about something
like we got to eat, I don't care.
(24:53):
And towards the end it was likeyo, you ain't got to do that,
I'm all right.
You know, I go to the child.
I got to, you know, and theywas like no, no, you tell us all
the stories Like, yeah, butit's sustenance.
I ain't going down therebecause it tastes good, I'm
going down there because I caneat.
You know, if I got to eat asingle ramen noodle, like fuck
(25:14):
it.
That's what I'm going to do.
And it's like that paradigmshift of personality and
responsibility was like epic,because it set the foundation
for everything else to come.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I noticed that when Inoticed this change in how my
family deal with me.
I've talked, I've made amendswith all my family and one of
the things that I had to helpthem understand is I can now
appreciate what you guys havedone for me.
You know like my sisters havealways treated me like a brother
(25:49):
, but also like a son.
You know they always theyalways saw that they would think
they were taking care of me.
And I know over the years andmy parents have as well.
But I know over the years, mysisters particularly how I took
advantage of them a lot.
And my mother, when she startedfeeling guilty, when she felt
(26:10):
guilty because she believed thatshe's I'm the reason why she's
in here.
I have to tell her mind, you'renot the reason why I'm in here,
I'm the reason why I'm in here.
But there was a time, I think,capitalized off of that her
guilt and try to get more.
My father was been a writersince the day one, took
advantage of him, and mystepmother, marva I, was that
(26:32):
individual that only understoodand cared about what I needed
and even though I know I was aburden on them, I'm like what's
you, hey?
That's the part of being in mylife.
But I've also been in a timewhen I had no one, and when I
had no one.
That's when the grime is reallystart coming out of me.
(26:52):
But now I've got people in mylife that I am just
overwhelmingly appreciative ofand every single day I try to do
something to honor them.
Maybe they may not see it, butjust stand out of the way.
If you send me something, Ithought I thought I'd keep an
ledger of how much money I spenda month, how much money I spend
(27:14):
in commissary, how much moneyis going out, how much money is
going in, because I have to beconscious of this, because
they're my source of revenue,and I told you when you came to
visit me.
I said I normally I can't doanything from you, but I can
honor our friendship by doingall the little things that I can
do right now.
And it's not always about askingyou for money, it's not asking
(27:35):
you to do anything, because yourfriendship enough is what I
value.
It's not what you can do for me, but it's just your friendship.
I've gained a deeperappreciation for people.
So, the same way, myunderstanding of people has
changed.
My hustle has changed to wherenow I'm hustling for information
, I'm hustling for my future,I'm hustling to transfer a
(27:57):
knowledge that I took over inthe street life and apply it
over into being a man, you know,and being an adult, being a
brother, being a husband, beinga nephew, being all the things
that I wish to become and thethings that I am right now.
That's what all my investmentgoes into, and I know it's
making me a better man, becausemy relationships are better with
the people that I did with thanit was in fact being.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, that's dope.
And you know, I want to kind oflike circle this back around to
the beginning of theconversation, where we talked
about like me picking up allthis time at work, and we always
talk about that.
One thing I always said is likewhen I don't feel like it, I
just get up and do it.
And then also it kind ofrelates to this whole journey of
(28:44):
progression that we're talkingabout, um, applying that old
mentality of hustling to my newlife.
You know, like it's, I didn'tgive up everything from the old
me.
I had to reinvent and repurposeit.
So now, when I be like, youknow, back then it was like, oh
(29:05):
man, you know everything fuckedup.
I got to go out here and get it.
However I can get it.
Now I realized that I've learnedtoo much.
I have too many options to takethat bad choice, the easy
choice yeah, it's easier, butthe risk level go up, and now I
(29:26):
got way too much shit to berisking, you know, and not only
is it monetary, not only is itfamily, you know a house or a
car and all that stuff to lose.
But I set too much of a goodexample for me to take that bad
choice and suffer theconsequences for everybody
that's following behind me,absolutely, you know.
(29:48):
So, instead of being like man,I mean, I still got homies
that's in the street.
I'm still trying hard to youknow when they ear get them out,
but I could easily call themlike man, fuck it.
I need some money and you knowI'm fortunate enough that those
people that I do keep contactwith would say no, right, they
(30:12):
would say no.
Speaker 5 (30:13):
They know you, they know the new you.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah.
So it's that even consideringanything like that, I'd be like
I'm going to pick up a day here,I'm going to go pick up a day
here, I'm going to pick up ahalf a day here.
Man, hey, it's a program, I cango do this, I can do that, I
can do a speech, I can dowhatever I need to to get
anything done.
And not only does it benefit meand whatever I'm trying to
(30:37):
pursue, but it also benefits mein setting that example and
showing the possibilities forthe people that's coming behind
me, cause I'm trying to tell you, man in the joint, it was, it
was too easy, like I know.
I understand that everythingthat we're talking about I want
to say that for the audience,everything we're talking about
is ill gotten gains.
So when I say it's easy in thejoint to make some money, if you
(31:02):
got somebody in thereincarcerated, I don't want you
to be like it's easy for you toget money.
I ain't got to send you that.
What I'm saying is it's easy tomake the bad choices to get
fast cash, and some of themchoices aren't benign.
Some of those choices can landyou more time.
You know, yeah, if you get in afight, you could land some more
(31:24):
time.
You know, depending on how yougo, if you mess around and get
caught with a certain amount ofthe wrong stuff.
You know, trying to get somemoney, you could mess around and
get some more time, like you'renot immune just because you're
already in prison.
So I do keep that in mind, likewhen I'm I mean I did 72 hour a
(31:45):
week, no 70 hours, 70 hour aweek last week.
You know I'm like so.
And my wife, she don'tunderstand it because she like
that's too much, even thoughit's all time that would
normally be doing nothing oreverybody else is busy I'm not
missing out time with the family, but she's like that's too much
.
And I'm like you don'tunderstand the level of hustle I
(32:08):
had before I was this person,you know.
Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, but do you understand where she's coming
from?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I do.
Speaker 5 (32:15):
She's coming from the .
I understand the money, but oneof her concerns is also just
you.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
No, no, I'm not talking about the money I'm not
talking about the money I'mtalking about.
Like, sometimes it's not evenabout the money, that's not even
the reason we hustle sometimes,like you, you just, you know,
you're just, you know, you'rejust, you know, you're just said
it.
When you give up that hustle,it was a while where life was
weird.
I know what to do, you know.
When people come around like yo, I got some tickets, you like,
(32:42):
nah, bro, I don't even do that,no more.
But I don't really, I don'treally know what.
I don't know.
I don't know what I do now.
But I don't do that now.
I'm like you know, you, howmany times you just spent just
walking around the track tryingto figure out what the fuck you
about to do with your day?
Like, my days when I firststopped hustling was like empty,
yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
It was hard cause you always saw it.
You always saw some angle thatyou always saw something you can
get into.
Covid hit man these guys downhere was making like 10, 15, 30
million.
I mean about $30,000 just doingstrips and with that other
stuff that they doing out there.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
No, we spread on the paper.
Uh, what's that like?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
The Toochie.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, toochie, the synthetic weed, the acid strips.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
They were making a killing down here and everyone's
saying like look man, I meanlike $30,000.
I mean I'm sitting like nope,nope, nope, nope, I ain't doing
it, I'm not doing it.
And I remember talking toChristine about it and I'm
telling you, just having a goodwoman is just it's amazing.
So I remember killing her thatthe one thing that would hurt me
(33:57):
is you have one minuteremaining for me to do something
and she looked me in my faceand said you were a liar.
And I never would have botheredme before.
But for her to say you are aliar about everything you said
and everything you said you were, that would bother me now,
(34:17):
because I worked so hard to seta standard of a man that I am
and so why those things weretempting.
I didn't want to be smirking mycharacter or the standard in
which I said to where she canlook me in my eyes, and all this
time I invested everything.
I would have did it anyway, butnot for a liar that would have
(34:38):
crushed me and it's so hard tobuild that reputation twice.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I say it's hard to build that reputation twice,
coming from our already workingbackground that's just strange
how that, how that changedbefore.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
I can care what a person call me a liar.
Okay, I'm a liar, you again inmy cheer.
I'm a manipulator up y'all mallthat, but just let me get what
I want.
But now that that that willcrush me that's dope thank you
for using Gtl back on topic.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Back on topic, it was something I wanted to talk
about, so we didn't talk aboutall this money is possible to
get in prison, right, and I'mgonna tell you, man, I believe
in mentorship and I've met a lotof people that I mentor me over
the years in prison, and one ofmy dudes man, even though he
was still kind of in thescheming and everything in in a
(35:33):
way, he showed me how to lookoutside the box, you know,
because I was still like tryingto figure out what I was gonna
do when I got home, how I wasgonna not just go straight back
to the streets and I walk overtwo rows and I'm sitting on a
locker box talking to him.
He like, oh yeah, man, I just,I just did this, I'm build my
(35:58):
credit, already got a 700.
I'm like, wait a minute, whatwe in prison he done been down
like eight years at this time.
He like, yeah, I got like a 700, I just bought this, a
videography equipment, and I'mgonna go home and do all this
stuff.
And sure enough, man, he camehome.
He started this media company,was doing some nice stuff, man,
(36:22):
but he didn't focus on that.
He ended up losing it all.
But it opened my eyes though.
Like this dude just built awhole damn company from nothing,
from inside a prison justmaking small preparations, man,
or like you know.
Or like you know, I got a littleextra money.
I'm gonna send some money homeand put it in a CD, you know
(36:45):
what?
Whatever it is, I'm, I don'twant to spend it, I want to blow
it.
I'm blowing it on littledebbies and and whatever
temptation comes around because,like we said, when you mess
around and lose focus, or youmess around and get that little
bout of depression and all of asudden every single thing has
(37:06):
the potential to distract you.
My bank account was going down.
So it's all types of options tostay the course or even advance
that I ain't think about backthen, man, mostly because of
where I come from, like I ain'tknow nothing about no IRAs, no
CDs, no, you know nothing toreally do with my money.
(37:28):
You know to secure it or makemoney back then.
So it's interesting to hearlike do's, this do's, was
getting all this money and I'mwondering, like where all that
money at right now, well, Ithink.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
I think that's one of the major problems in here.
We may, they don't give youwrong.
They have financial literacyclasses and they have money
smart.
But I'll speak for a lot ofguys that I came in with.
We really had no concept of thevalue of money, but we had it,
but it didn't matter if you blewit, because you just go back
(38:07):
out on the block and make more.
And even in here we don't.
We don't have tangible moneyanymore.
Like I remember when I was inLucasfield.
I remember I saw my firsthundred dollar bill, the new
hundred dollar bills, and I waslike what the hell is that do's
press?
They had a fan of a $500 and heshowed them to me and he was
like this was the new money,look like out there.
I'm like, wow, I don't evenlook like money that I know.
(38:30):
And then when I was a webinar,we send money home by wrapping
it in a carbon paper and sendingit out.
But you don't really have moneymoney anymore, like tangible
money in here.
Everyone's doing these cashapps and everything like that
and when you, when you, getmoney sent in from from the
streets, it's just on a computerthat says this is that this is
(38:51):
your balance.
So we blow through moneywithout even knowing it.
And I told you not until I startkeeping the ledger of how much
money was coming in, how muchmoney was going out, that I
started knowing that I have aspending pattern and my spending
pattern is this every threemonths.
I go broke every three months,but I'll say I'm 90 days, I'm at
(39:15):
like a dollar 85, a dollar four, and then I'll go all the way
back up to $2,300 and in 90 daysit goes all the way back down.
And what I started noticing wasthe more money I get, the more
money I spend, and not until Iget to the end do I stop like oh
, maybe I need to pull up alittle bit.
(39:36):
And so what I had to starttelling myself.
I said you have to startvaluing the money.
You have to think if I don'tget any more money and how long
can this sustain me?
And no, don't know, I stillhave to get my hygiene, I still
have to send my $20 home to youa month.
I'm still doing all the thingsI'm supposed to.
(39:57):
How can I make this money besustained and last for as long
as possible into that nextinflux of money coming in and a
lot of us don't do that.
When I first got down here, theyhad accidentally sent me all
the money that I spent as I'vebeen in prison and it was like
tens of thousands of dollars andI'm like I didn't have anything
to show for it, not a singlething out of that idiot of
(40:19):
things that they said that Ipurchased through commissary,
through food and clothes boxes,through TV, through electronics,
or I didn't have anything toshow for any of that.
And I'm like man, imagine inall these years 20, 30 years if
I would have started saving 10,$15 back then, $20 back then,
(40:41):
even though it's not, it's not afortune, it's a hell of a lot
more than I got now.
But I did.
I didn't practice these things.
I didn't understand the valueof what money was.
I just understood when I havean imposed, suspended and that's
a consumer mindset.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Well, that is very much a consumer mindset, but it
is also because of the situationin prison.
We tend to focus on the routine.
We tend to focus on today,that's it, you know.
So when you got a routine inyour routine involves spending
(41:15):
money, then you routinely spendmoney.
And I remember when the firsttime I had that concept of money
and worth in prison, I spentlike $5,000 in like a couple
months.
I was putting a hundred dollarsa week on the phone.
I was, I mean, really itprobably more than that, because
my family was putting money onthe phone too.
(41:36):
I was putting money on thephone.
I would just sit there forhours on the phone yeah and,
like I said, I was cooking twicea day.
I was doing all this.
I would cook and give it awaybecause I wasn't hungry, like I
was, like damn.
So I have no concept.
I don't know what, how muchmoney I spent over them 10 years
(41:57):
, but I know for sure there wastoo much.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
It was entirely too much and we don't, we don't it's
like.
Now I'm beginning to understand.
I really don't have a greatgrasp on it yet, but I'm
beginning to understand thevalue of it and I think that
would be more.
It would have more impact on meonce I'm actually home and I
understand the value of work tomoney, the value of my effort to
(42:22):
money, the value of my time tomoney, to where it would have
more impact to me.
But yeah, that's one of thepitfalls of making money in here
, because, as you and I weretalking last time we did this,
you can be a king living hereoff of $300 a month.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Oh yeah, prison rich.
Speaker 5 (42:46):
Yeah, it's prison rich, and so the longer you have
all the ladies and all thegreaties you can, people come to
you all day.
You go to him because he'salways on by something.
It's like oh yeah yeah, I'mdoing well in here and the
hustle mentality doesn't change.
I don't care where you are atthe moment and that you're
making.
A mentality is there, but youalso have to have a value of
(43:09):
your time, your effort, yourenergy and well as what you're
sacrificing.
That's what.
That's what counting.
The cost is how much a personalself is this gonna cost me if I
do this?
We always like to give my timeup, but how much a personal self
is it gonna cost me for me tomake this decision or for me to
do this action or for me to getinvolved with this person,
(43:31):
because you might not be able toafford the consequence?
Speaker 3 (43:37):
You know, I just had a conversation with my 11 year
old and my seven year old at myfive year old, like two days ago
, and we were talking aboutwasting, you know, and we were
talking about why I get so madwhen they waste stuff.
Because they were kind of likemaking fun of me for a minute
(43:57):
and I let it go.
But then I kind of got seriousand gave them a little speech
and I was like, man, listen,from now on I want all of you
guys to think about things interms of time.
And they're like what do youmean?
Of course there's 11, seven andfive.
What the fuck are you talkingabout?
(44:18):
And I said I said, baby, youremember when you told me you
wanted to watch?
And she was like yeah, I waslike that watch cost me like 40
bucks.
I said do you know where thatwatch is right now?
She got real quiet.
I said exactly.
I said you're not in troublefor losing the watch.
(44:40):
I said but what's the firstthing I told you when I gave you
the watch?
Don't take it off.
I said right, I said I don'ttell you this stuff is
punishment.
I tell you it as advice.
I said so now I want you to.
We were driving, so I looked outthe windows of gas station.
I said how much you think itcost to work there at the gas
station?
How much you think you pay?
(45:01):
You know, probably like $13 anhour.
Great, I said how many hours doyou have to buy just to work,
just to buy that watch?
So she started doing the math.
You know 13, 26,.
You know 39.
Yeah Well, I got to work thismany hours.
I said wrong.
She looked at me like what?
I did a math right?
(45:21):
I said no, because you got paidtaxes.
So then we do the little mathon the taxes.
I did that for her.
I said, all right, so now howmany hours you got to work?
So they do the math again andthey tell me I said wrong.
And they were like why?
I said because now you got topay sales tax to buy it.
So this is the actual price ofthe watch.
(45:42):
And they were like oh man, sonow, like, so now, how much you
know?
So we go through this for aminute.
And so I'm like all right, nowlisten, if you count up all the
stuff I buy for you the watch,your socks, your shoes, the
stuff they just leave places.
You went to school and camehome without a coat.
How the fuck that happened.
(46:05):
So I'm like, how often?
I was like, how much do you seeme go to work?
And so they started thinking,like all the time?
I was like, yeah, like all thetime.
So I told them how many hours Iworked last week.
I'm like how often do you thinkI would have to go to work if I
didn't have to keep replacingthings that was lost or broken?
(46:27):
Yeah, it's for you, but foryour sister, for your brother,
for your other sister, for stuffin the house that just you know
, over time falls apart.
You know, I was like man, Icould probably I don't know,
probably work two days less aweek.
I said, man, I'm not sayingthis to be hard on them, but I
(46:52):
was like man, I'm telling youthis because I do it out of love
, I do it because it's myresponsibility, no doubt, but I
would do it anyway because itmeans that you don't have to.
So we went on and on and on.
But that was my point is likeyou know, we didn't.
I didn't have no sense ofresponsibility when I was
getting fast money Right, likeit was stuff that I purposely
(47:16):
sacrificed to throw them off thescent, the trail of some other
stuff that I was doing Like Idon't give a fuck about that man
.
As long as they don't get this,I'm cool.
You know, I get that back.
That's the whole hustlingmentality.
So I'm gonna get that back.
Speaker 5 (47:30):
Yeah, get that back.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You know you don't follow, so you don't blow money
so easily.
Speaker 5 (47:34):
You know you can always get it back.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Any true hustler in the history of hustling gonna
tell you they done fell off20,000 times.
Hell might've fell off weekly.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
But we don't get that back.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
It's a constant, you know, trying to outpace the
losses, you know.
And it's like man, like youthink about that rich people
mentality that you hear about sooften, where it's like, and
Carlos Slim say he lived in thesame house he had before he was
rich, same car he had before hewas rich.
He, a billionaire, now rankedas one of the most rich men in
(48:12):
the world, still driving thesame old shit.
We might be thinking likethat's stupid, but that's
because we broke.
We broke.
Speaker 5 (48:23):
You know Exactly.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
And you hear dudes like in rap songs.
It's probably not true, butit's a very impactful statement
where they like I think I heardLil Wayne say like I'm still
spending money from 1990, notyou know, yeah, that's a Steve
Jobs.
Speaker 5 (48:41):
Steve Jobs wore the same clothes.
Imagine how much money youspent on clothes a year.
He wore the same outfit.
We think, oh man, why would youwear the same thing?
But he like that's not thepoint.
My clothes is irrelevant.
If something clean, ifsomething I can put on, if
something I can go out.
But it's like all of theseother things.
That's part of the penitentiaryhustle.
(49:02):
You wanna have the latest shoes.
You wanna have the latest, thenicest watches.
You wanna have the slickestclothes.
You wanna have the exclusivewater model that no one else has
.
It's like always trying tooutshine it.
Just like out there, you alwaystrying to outshine it outdo
everyone else to let them knowyeah, I got it.
I don't have to go to the childhall.
I could be out of my box forthe next six months.
(49:24):
You know, just because I haveit's like those things is this
messed up mentality that we have.
That's part of that hustlermentality.
It's not just getting money,it's spending money.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, I think some of it was scheming too.
Speaker 5 (49:41):
Because I can't.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
I think some of it was scheming, because there were
times where I'd be like I justgot a food box.
Somebody that kind of is likeoff and on come into your life
and be like y'all wanna buy yourfood box.
You don't need it, probablycan't even fit it in your box
right now, but you're like oh,hold on, order this from a homie
name.
You ain't gonna let that go,you ain't gonna let the
(50:02):
opportunity go.
Or buy me these shoes and justinstantly sell the shoes, just
for no reason.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
But, like on my heyday, when I was at the very
top, I was in Lebanon and we hadlocker boxes and several
different people sales.
We had so many cigarettes itwas ridiculous.
We was blowing cigarettes likeit was nothing.
That's when it was.
I was still on hours of smoke,but we had so much that we
didn't really need to doanything else.
(50:34):
But we got greedy and that'seventually how we got knocked.
But we just had so much.
And I can say every singlemorning when I woke up, it
wasn't about how is the familydoing.
It wasn't about, damn, how am Igonna get home.
It was about how am I gonna getthese eight balls off?
How am I gonna get this over toJ-John?
How am I gonna get this down toE-Edward?
(50:55):
How is that gonna?
Oh, I gotta make sure.
Make sure he's paying people tothat money.
Oh, dude going on a visit today, so make sure he get that back.
And then, once we get that back, we're gonna go ahead and cut
it up and I'm gonna give it to.
It was about that every singleday, every single day.
And then I'm respecting someoneelse's house, so I'll throw him
some play.
And he respected my house, sohe throwed me some play and it
was just an economy in there andit was never about anything
(51:19):
other than hustling.
That's all that mattersSometimes from time up to time
down, and it made the time go sofast that, yeah, I forgot it, I
was doing time.
And then when all of it stopped, yeah, time started picking up
again.
It's like getting heavier again.
I'm like damn, only a week wentby.
Hey, I guess it's been likethree years.
(51:41):
Yeah, it's like getting heavyagain.
Speaker 3 (51:45):
But I think a major part of giving that up is a
contentment, and we usecontentment in both a good word
as a good word and a bad word,and a good way and a bad way.
It's like when you becomecontent with not having the
stuff you don't need, then youstart realizing, like I got a
lot more resources than I hadbefore.
(52:06):
Yeah, you know, because I ain'tbuying a bunch of bull stuff.
You know, we not saying don'tget to the point where you
content you ain't striving to dobetter.
That's a different type ofcontentment.
But when you like I don't needto be involved in this, man, I
don't need to have the best andneed to show off this, and that
(52:27):
I don't need to Cook twice a dayor pay somebody to cook for me,
it's like come on, man, calmdown, pull back and Figure out
what do I need, what do I notneed With the stuff that I don't
need?
What else could I do with thoseresources?
Speaker 5 (52:44):
Yeah, you start putting the things that's
important.
Important, like I say now youkeep in my word to my family, to
Christine, to you Meansomething more to me than money.
Me having the respect of thoseindividuals that I just named
means more to me than Some newshoes.
(53:06):
It's like when you startUnderstanding the focus of where
your life is supposed to be andstart understanding the worth
of things.
I didn't understand the worthof people, for they was always
something for me to use, butonce you start understanding the
worth of people, thenEverything that you do start
mattering, because you knoweverything that I'm doing is
(53:27):
going to affect someone.
Okay, what you do, everythingyou do, is going to affect
someone and and with the coming,with that understanding, this
is where maturity comes from.
And a lot of ticket ticket alot of us, some longer than
others, to Fully mature and tobe in men.
There's so many 50-60-70 yearold people in here that is young
(53:53):
and immature in their mind.
They're young and immature, butI think I didn't become mature
until I was 40.
I didn't get it.
I came in at 18 and it took 22years before I was like Well,
maybe I need to grow up andmaybe the way I'm living ain't
the way it is I'm supposed to.
And over these last eight yearsI I still I've developed into
(54:17):
being a man, and that's someonethat I can look in the mirror, I
can present in front of anyonewithout shame and embarrassment
of amelioration and say I'mproud of who I am today.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Oh, but that cost something that's all right,
though.
Yeah, it ain't no price that Iwouldn't pay for that.
Speaker 5 (54:38):
Nope, none, none.
So yeah, but the hustle.
There's nothing wrong with thehustle.
What are you hustling for?
What are you hustling for?
And if you take that mentalityand tour in the tour something
that's going to benefit, youmake it an investment, then a
(54:58):
hustle all day.
I hustle all day long.
All day long.
Now I'm doing commerce andinformation.
I'm doing commerce andcharacter building and building
relation.
That's my new commerce.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
So yeah, I enjoy it and all of that stuff that you
doing is not just to better you.
I mean that stuff that thatpeople see like.
I Learned that that when Istarted moving different, when I
start Consistently making theharder choices, the better
choices, all the dudes that wasrunning with me you know it was
(55:33):
a few of them that was like Damn, like what you doing over there
.
Like now they got they curious.
Now you didn't affect somebodyelse's life in a positive way.
You know, if you can be thatone candle in the dark room,
somebody gonna look.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
Now.
I've said it's a little easierto make them hard decisions,
because you realize that it'snot just you.
Speaker 5 (56:00):
No, it's not.
It's interesting when peoplestart associating you,
associating you with good thingsinstead of negative ones.
You know, when people say yourname like oh yeah, man, I heard
you was a good dude man, I knowI told you I can count how many
times people that when I firstmet you I wanted to beat you up.
I didn't even like you on mywhy it's like you?
(56:20):
Just, I don't know you justlike you would just air again.
You just you just had my bra.
That is not me.
They're like oh yeah, I knowthat now.
But when I saw you from adistance, like you always seem
to be going somewhere and he wasjust going to do something, he
just doing too much.
And and I told him, I said oneof the things that I understand
is I Am here to help people.
I get that now.
I did.
I didn't understand that beforeand the way I help is through
(56:44):
teaching.
I I have been given an abilityto discern things, information.
I can break it down to thesimplest understanding for
anyone.
Again, and I don't take thatfor granted.
I didn't want to do that.
Like I told you before, Iwanted to be a rapper, but that
just wasn't in the cars for meto do but really.
(57:05):
I'm a teacher.
Yeah, I tried it, which is it'sa lot harder than people I
Never.
People think it is.
I respect anyone who's made it.
I respect what they do, cuzthat stuff is not easy.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
But I never heard you rap or nothing.
Man you know in prison.
That's where are you here.
Anybody rap that you Know?
Speaker 5 (57:28):
what that was that was back like, but I thought I
thought I could.
But yeah, I'm just you.
That that's just not good.
I'm as bad as rapping as I amdancing and I cannot dance.
So, yeah, but yeah.
But I'm a teacher and and Ienjoy teaching, I enjoy talking,
I enjoy watching the process ofa person going from a state of
(57:50):
not knowing but that realizationof now I know and walking in
confidence.
I enjoy watching thedevelopment for individual.
That that gives me joy, becausenow I say now is two of us and
it's a great feeling to justhave a person say man, you saved
my life Because I had someoneteach me and I was able to tell
(58:11):
them that and Like, yeah,without, without you, if you
didn't take the time to walkwith me and show me and help me
understand and be patient Withme as I was going through that
learning phase, I Don't knowwhat I would have been that's
the new hustle.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I changed your lives.
Man, without any, without anydirect Come up you know, you
ain't always looking for theprofit, it's always just like
yeah, I help.
Speaker 5 (58:37):
I remember doing something about Johnny Apples.
He did that, johnny Apples.
He planted thousands of treesand never got one of them, that
never got a chance to see one ofthem grow Um to a fruition.
And that's how I think aboutindividuals.
I'm planting a thousand seedsbut I may not see the fruits of
it, but that's okay.
I know the potential of what Iplanted in you and I know, if
(58:57):
you allow it to grow.
I know the kind of person thatyou're going to become as a
result of it, and I played apart of it.
So that's all that matters tome.
Am I planning good seed?
Am I setting good examples?
Am I showing you something orwhat a man can be and the care
he's supposed to have to be abetter husband, better father,
better brother, better Neighbor,better person so that you know
that you are deserving of havingsomeone like that in your life
(59:20):
and therefore you can be that tosomeone as well?
Speaker 3 (59:23):
You know we talked about reputation right, and the
respect of people you love andnot willing to compromise.
That I remember, you know,coming at a joint or going to a
different joint when I was young, when I was first coming in,
where your reputation waseverything and what they use,
(59:45):
the adjectives they use todescribe you, was way different
and you had an aversion to thosegood qualities for real Like.
If somebody was like I heardyou was a thorough ass, nigga
man, you're real nigga man.
You, you could fight, you couldhustle, you could do whatever.
You know you heartless, youlike hell yeah, hell yeah.
You know Somebody like thoseare great compliments.
Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
I was a cop.
Those are compliments.
Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Yeah, somebody be like oh man, dude, you know,
yeah, he'll help you.
Like not a hell.
No, you know like I don't wantnobody get the idea that they
can come around here and just beasking for shit.
And you know, and it was likeif somebody was like yo, I heard
you was a nerd.
Like you, smart, you like hell.
No, you know Like we downcastanything that was good back then
(01:00:31):
.
Nowadays it's like somebodycome around like yo, I heard you
was a hustler scheme.
Are you like hell?
No, hold on now.
Who told you something likethat?
I ain't.
I don't want none of thatattached to my name.
No more, none of thosequalities.
You know, the stuff that got usahead back then is the stuff
that we want nothing to do withnowadays because it's
counterproductive and all thestuff that I wanted nobody to
(01:00:56):
associate with me Is all thestuff that I seek to be now like
, yeah, I'm smart, yeah, I'mhelpful, yeah, I'm a reliable
yeah, you know, responsible.
Like who the fuck is he?
I?
Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Was just, I was just talking to this one guy and
again we were talking aboutparole prep and he was like,
yeah, man, I was gonna do it.
Man, you know, you got, you gotto get some outside people and
you know, start a littlecommunity program out there and,
you know, take some picturesand let them know that's what
you're doing.
And I told him, I said thatdoesn't work for me.
I thought I'd be passionateabout anything that I'm about,
but what was really in the backof my mind, that's manipulation.
(01:01:35):
Yeah and and I was tellingChristina to some people they
can do that.
It's like if you're analcoholic and I'm you have one
minute remaining drink thisglass of champagne back.
Well, I can't go to.
I mean, it's just like that's achampagne.
Okay, for you is just glass ofchampagne To me.
It's gonna take me down a paththat I don't want to return to.
So Anything that reeks ofmanipulation, anything that
(01:01:58):
reeks of use of another person,I distance myself from because I
don't want to be known as thatperson anymore.
But I gotta go.
I love you, bruh.
As always, great conversation,which you love.
Your energy is it as full aspossible and I will talk to you
sometime soon.
Tell Debbie any kids to say hiand love them all for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Yeah, I'll give you some.
It was a great conversation,man.
Thank you for being a part ofit and sharing your wisdom,
absolutely please.
Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Thank you for using gtl.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
The lockdown to legacy podcast is proud to be a
part of the bus sprout podcastcommunity network.
Lockdown to legacy is recordedat Kohatch in their lovely audio
file room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own remy Jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:03:00):
two Legacy comm, stories atlockdown to legacy comm.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on Facebook at thelockdown to legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.