February 16, 2024 • 65 mins
Have you ever wondered what seeds of potential lie dormant behind the walls of prisons? Together with my inside correspondent, Warren, we take you through a raw and powerful exploration of the American prison system, revealing how incarceration can become a crucible for transformation. Our special guest, Warren, lends his voice direct from inside the Institution, sharing the peaks and valleys of pursuing self-improvement and initiating programs from the inside.
We peel back the curtain on the silent battles and victories of life in confinement, discussing the paradox of solitude amidst an era of incessant connectivity. From the therapeutic escape of educational pursuits to the discipline of vocational training, the stories we share illuminate the resilience of the human spirit. We delve into the ripple effect of personal development in prison, where the quest for knowledge and leadership not only shapes individual futures but also has the potential to redefine family trajectories and societal reintegration.
As our conversation unfolds, the theme of mentorship emerges as a lifeline in an ocean of adversity. We reveal how the courage to seek guidance—and the grace to offer it—can carve paths where once there were only walls. Wrapping up with reflections that transcend the prison experience, this episode stands as a testament to the enduring power of human connection, the relentless pursuit of growth, and the legacies that can be built, even from the confines of a cell.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the
inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
Yes, we are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system, outside ofprison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real.
And if that's not for you, wetotally understand, but please
do what's best for yourlistening ears.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, we're about to keep it real, son.
Our goal of this podcast is toshare the inside realities of
the American prison and criminaljustice system, from precharges
all the way to post-release,from the voices of those who've
experienced it firsthand,including me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's right, we're going to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Lockdown the Legacy.
I'm your host, remy Jones, andthis will be another warrants
wisdom episode, so I lookforward to having that call with
our friend Warren.
It's kind of a deepconversation, man, but any of
you guys who've been listeningfor a while know that that's our
(01:54):
regular man.
That's our thing is deepconversation to philosophical
guys who just get to kind ofkick the ball back and forth.
So of course we go down therabbit hole and the subject was
kind of planned but it developedinto its own thing and so what
we wanted to talk about was thevalue of getting involved.
(02:16):
We talked about college andprison, we talked about
vocations and trades and stufflike that.
But it just kind of dawned on meI didn't want to give the wrong
impression to you guys thatthere's not stuff available in a
good way, like there could be alot more, and for the most part
(02:38):
it is very much on theindividual to pursue this stuff
and in some ways you know it'slike, yeah, that's how it should
be, but at the same timethere's not a lot of teaching or
giving the information of whatyou don't know.
You know, if you don't know it'savailable, then of course
you're not seeking it out.
So there are a lot of programsand most of them, or at least a
(03:00):
lot of them, are started byinmates and they're very
valuable.
I myself did participate in alot of them and Warren actually
not only participated butactually created some of them.
So, you know, here's theconversation with Warren and his
call, and, you know, feel freeto give your feedback on what
(03:20):
you think and if you have any,any suggestions for stuff that
we left out, you know, or otherstuff that you might be curious
about.
All right, so stay tuned andthanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
This is a prepaid debit call from Warren, an
inmate at the GraffinCorrectional Institution.
To accept this call.
Press zero to refuse this call.
Hang up or press one to preventcalls from this.
This call is from a DRCcorrectional facility and is
(04:05):
subject to monitoring andrecording.
Utilization of an unapprovedapplication and three-way calls
to communicate are strictlyprohibited and a violation of
DRC policy.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Thank you for using GTL.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What's up, bro?
What's up bro.
I'm all right, man.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I had a pretty good day today, so, yeah, everything
seemed to be moving in a gooddirection for me.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I'm glad to hear.
I'm glad to hear because youknow we ain't just, you know,
setting caught up in a while.
So I'm glad to hear that it'sall going well.
Things are going pretty smoothover here.
You know, no bad news is goodnews as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You said it's good news as far as you're concerned,
as far as everything going goodover there, yeah, no bad news.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No bad news is good news to me.
No bad news great news.
You know I had a pretty chillwork week there.
Kids all doing well.
Yeah, I ain't got, I got nostresses right now, very minor
stresses that I can deal withforever as long as I'm concerned
(05:11):
.
Yeah, oh, I don't know if Itold you, but you know we did
that A whole 30 thing for the 30days, did I?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I remember you telling me about that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, we both lost like 20 and 22 pounds.
Wow, 30 days, no added workoutWow.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So is it going to be an ongoing thing, or are you
going to you like I'm cool?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So for DJs it's got to be an ongoing thing for a
while, like slowly reintroducecertain stuff just to see where
you know, think she might havean allergy or something to.
So we got to kind of figurethat out, narrow it down.
But for me I just felt like Ifelt so much better after doing
it that I don't really need thatstuff.
(06:03):
I mean, it's a lot of stuffthat I'll probably just not pick
back up, like all the, you know, the added sugar and all the
processed stuff and maybe evensome dairy.
Like cut back on that a lot.
Yeah, like I might not gostrictly without it, but as far
as I'm concerned I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
That ain't going to hurt you less than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, and now that I know I can go without it like
100%, you know what's the harmin cutting back 80%?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, I know Christine was telling me a lot
that a lot of times.
When she said, well, I said,well, I'm eating what are you
eating?
I said, well, I'm eating thenoodles and some fish.
And she said you can't justkeep eating noodles and fish.
And so recently I've beenstarting to buy real, real food
peas and green, green beans andthings like that and I was like
(07:05):
my, my thing is not that I don'twant to eat it, it's the parent
part that I'm particularlycareful.
You know you should do thisreal quick.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Four minutes, I'm done.
I had a um when I was overthere in a C one I had a bunkie
that everybody thought was theweirdest dude ever and he was
perfectly normal in my eyes, man.
But the reason why they thoughthe was weird is because he had
(07:35):
a plate and a fork and he onlyate like rice and green beans
and fish, like he prepared itand put it all on a plate
separately and ate it with afork.
And people was like man, you'rea monkey, weird, I'm like bro,
that is normal as hell.
My only question is where thefuck did he get this fork at
(07:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, they thought that I was crazy because, um,
they, they was passing out, uh,hot cocoa during the, during the
winter, because, you know,being a normal, they do a lot of
different things here.
And they said we'll bring yourcup down and I go, I don't own a
cup.
And they said what I said Idon't own a cup.
They said why don't you own acup?
I said, well, I don't drink hotbeverages.
(08:23):
First of all, I say, and Idrink water, but I drink water,
I don't drink the water bottle.
They sell water here, Causethat's why I just I just drink,
I drink water, bottle water, sothere's no need for me to own a
cup.
And they thought that was thestrangest and weirdest thing,
that I don't own a cup.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Put them.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I don't put it in the cup.
I drink my water out of thebottle.
I don't drink hot beverages andvery seldomly do I drink a soda
, and a soda comes right in thecan, so I just drink it right
off the can.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I mean that just goes to show that institutionalism
is real and even for, like, evenfor the staff.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Possibly.
Yeah, and that's.
I think that's one of theproblems that I noticed about
being locked up is because wealways get the worst and most
extreme version andunderstanding of what
institutionalization looks likeand we don't think of the more
(09:29):
minor ways that we've beeninstitutionalized and so let's
point it out to you oh, that'sbeing institutionalized as well.
And then, because a lot of usare institutionalized, I think
the I think anyone who servedover five years in prison, if
maybe three, isinstitutionalized in some form
(09:49):
or fashion.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
For sure, 100%.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Be here because others, but definitely
institutionalized Because thenumbers say it.
Studies have shown thatindividuals, when you get locked
up, it takes you 18 months tobecome acclimated to the prison
environment, but if you do morethan 18 months, it takes you at
(10:13):
least three years to becomere-acclimated to society.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I can understand that .
I don't see that.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
How does it take you double the time being in here,
that it takes you to get used tobeing in prison?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, you know, that's the way it is with
anything almost really Like whenit comes to habits, addictions,
anything like that.
You can form an addiction or abad habit way easier and quicker
than you can break it.
Right?
Because breaking it, you haveto not only just stop doing it,
(10:49):
but you also have to replace it,which is interesting because
when you form the bad habit oraddiction, you never think about
what it replaces, right?
But you know, I believe thatwholeheartedly, man, because I
(11:09):
mean, we talked about this a lot.
I first came home and you knowmy mom was like, just take some
time to chill, just like go hangout with your like find your
old friends.
And like I was like nope, likefirst off, there's people that
I've had every opportunity toget in contact with that I
(11:29):
intentionally did not, because Itold my mom I was like man, I
don't want the opportunity tocreate any bad habits or to lose
any discipline that I'vecreated in my life.
So what I did was I knew I wasinstitutionalized, but I
(11:51):
actually embraced it and allowedit to become a big boon for me.
You know, like I literally toldpeople this like I'm already
used to not being around myfamily, I'm already used to not
owning, you know, a lot ofaccumulated, you know, material
items.
I'm already used to not havinga lot of money, so I can, you
(12:15):
know, make it stretch further.
You know I was like so what I'mgoing to do is I'm going to get
in this truck and I'm going tojust go.
I'm used to being in the gymthree hours a day.
I'm used to, like, you knowalso, you know, taking five
college classes at a time andplaying all these, you know
whatever to fill my day.
(12:36):
So I got in the truck and wasworking like man I don't
recommend this for anybody, butI got in the truck and was
working like 15 hour days, fivedays a week, you know.
And I just saved my money, dude, like other than my car.
Like I paid my car off superquick.
I paid my motorcycle off superquick, like both of them in like
a year or less.
(12:58):
But I was shopping for clothesat Sam's Club, like the same
place.
I got my groceries to pack mylunches and stuff on the road.
I was over there like I'm goingto get these t-shirts and I'm
going to get these jeans.
These are like some good jeans,you know.
And people was like this islike a fry, yeah.
(13:20):
So I mean, even if it's notlike the, you know what society
makes you think is the versionof stereo, of institutionalized,
where you like bat shit crazyor something Like there is
certain stuff that it sticks toyou.
You know, like for the longestman, I remember feeling like
(13:44):
something was missing, like Iwas forgetting something.
Right, and it was because Ididn't have count three times a
day.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
You didn't have what.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I didn't have count three times a day, wow.
So at certain times of the dayit's not that it was like I was
like fucked up about it, but Iwould just get this weird
feeling like like damn, did Iforget something?
Like am I forgetting?
Damn, I get to checking mypockets and everything.
Man, like damn, I forgetsomething.
I feel like I'm forgettingsomething.
Oh, it's four o'clock, you know.
(14:14):
So it was just weird, man.
It was weird, but I made sure Ididn't allow it to interfere
with my life and I know that inthere, especially being around
it all the time, that was normal, you know.
So I could understand whypeople was like man, you're a
funky weird.
It's because they've beenneeding out of Tupperware with a
(14:36):
spork for, you know, eightyears.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Right, but it's interesting how we are
institutionalized in theinstitution by doing different
things, like some people,institutionalized through their
religion, but they are, you know, we call them Bible bumpers.
Some people areinstitutionalized by working out
(14:58):
all day long.
That's all they do, they eatand they out as workout.
Or you become institutionalizedthe way I have, the way I have
been, and that's througheducating myself, because I knew
, I always felt that I didn'tknow enough.
I always felt that I was behind, I always felt inadequate, and
(15:23):
so what I started doing was Inever wanted to be in front of
people and sound stupid.
I never wanted to be put into asituation where I didn't know.
And the strange thing is beingaround a lot of white dudes.
They already had this stigmathat black dudes were stupid
anyway, and so any chance theygot to correct you on improper
(15:46):
grammar or any time they got achance to show that they were
just a little bit moreintelligent, they would take
advantage of that.
Unless they were just scared,you was going to beat them up
and I noticed that I enjoyed itso much that I started
accelerating extremely fast bylearning, because my mind
(16:11):
processes a lot of informationextremely fast and it retains it
and I thought, using examplesin order to hold on to it.
So now, while I'm at now, I'vekind of outpaced a lot of
individuals who I'm around andI'll paste a lot of my family
members, and it's like trying toswim somewhere and then you
(16:34):
realize you're in the middle ofthe ocean by yourself and you
can't really relate to anyonethat you talk to, you can't
really relate to the individualswho you're around, but there's
always this deep-seated feelingof being alone.
And that's not unusual for mebecause I've spent years being
(16:57):
alone, physically alone.
I've spent years in the whole,so in a cell by myself, when you
had other people being noisy.
But I'm comfortable being bymyself to the point of I feel
more natural being around myself, being around other people.
And I know all of this isantisocial behavior, I know it's
(17:19):
antisocial thinking, Iunderstand all of that, but this
is another way that I've becomeinstitutionalized, within the
normal ways of beinginstitutionalized.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
But you know what, though?
You know what.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I have no problem staying away from people.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
That was like a preference for me, but I don't
understand as part of my beinginstitutionalized as well, but
that's one of the things thatyou can take and make a positive
characteristic, because I'm thesame way.
I prefer to not be aroundpeople, and, of course, you
(17:59):
could say that's a residual fromprison, which really I didn't
hang around too many peoplebefore prison.
I always had a circle aboutthree or less.
That is a quality that is superlacking in society today.
There are not too many peoplethat can just be content with
(18:21):
being alone.
I mean, that's that socialmedia.
This is the social media era.
Everybody got to feel liked,they got to feel like somebody's
paying attention to them, andall this other stuff where it's
like you leave me alone for awhile, watch me work, man,
because I'm about to you know mymind get to going.
(18:43):
I'm going to do some of my bestwork uninterrupted.
I mean, hell, I might just belazy, who knows?
But I will love it.
But you know what, though?
Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I would say, even when I tell people I don't
really watch the news and theylike, well, why don't you watch
the news?
I said.
I didn't say I don't watch news.
I said I don't really watch thenews, like I don't.
I'm not obsessed with seeingthe news every single day.
I can get a wrap up of the news.
Generally they're going to beplaying the same thing,
especially like local news.
(19:16):
They're going to show you thesame, the same story, like three
or four times in a week.
World news I can read a littleticker or I can catch.
I can catch the world newsmaybe Wednesday and the news is
not really moving that much fromday to day, but there are
people who watch it every singleday.
We have a station is justbecause we do.
(19:37):
We get Fox news or we get CNN,oh, fox news is the worst, honey
.
And they will sit there andwatch Fox news and see it in all
day long.
Now, only a small portion ofthese broadcast news is about
actual news.
The rest of it is aboutcommentary what people think
(19:57):
about the news, how they feelabout the news and all the other
stuff like that One.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
so called expert or another.
They become obsessed with this.
Yeah, I said one or another socalled experts giving their
opinion Right.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And they become.
They become obsessed with thisand I tell them, like I like
movies, but I don't I don'treally watch the news that often
.
But for a lot of people thatlike, well, I'm keeping up with
what was going on in the world,yeah, but you don't have to do
that 24 hours a day, you want todo that every single day.
The world, the world's notchanging that much like that to
where you need to be involved orconcerned about it.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Right, I want to circle back to something you
said earlier, though, when youwere talking about, like
religion and some of the otherthings that people kind of get
institutionalized in.
So, actually, I wanted to talkabout today the value of getting
involved, you know, inside ofprison, and you know we talked
(20:57):
about, like trades and collegeand stuff like that, and we
talked about the value of havinga routine in prison, right, but
there's so much more that'savailable inside there.
Don't get me wrong.
There's a whole lot lacking,but I mean, like myself, I've
been a part of some things.
I know you've done a whole lotof things, and I just made a
(21:21):
small list of some of the thingsthat I was kind of using as
examples.
So we both did the Braille,braille program until they shut
it down, right, and that washuge.
I mean I'm talking about stuffthat, even if it doesn't give
you a certificate or anythinglike that, like it's a skill
that you can take to the outsideworld.
(21:42):
We were both into JC's.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And even though I didn't really take that as far
as I could have, I mean, weren'tyou like up there in like the
president or something like thatyeah Y'all's the president.
Yeah, and that's real lifeskills Like that is stuff that
when you get out here and youwant to know, like how it works
at the upper levels of you knowgovernment or you know a company
(22:12):
or something that you want toget involved and you know that
those processes and how thatstuff works, that is exceptional
because, like you said, youdon't ever want to be in a
situation where you know youfeel like you're the dumbest one
in the room.
That's something that they donot expect you to know.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I started Iron Road in Ashland today and that's
actually what I'm trying to getmy bachelor's degree in, the
bachelor's in science andleadership and that's what she
explained to bachelor's degreesabout.
It's about teaching you how togo into company and helping the
workforce become more efficient,and she did this.
(22:52):
This degree will help you.
You just go from company tocompany, learn how to do that.
That kind of fits in mywheelhouse, because I was
certified as a life coach andthen I got I'm going to be a
transformational coach, but I'ma teacher.
This is what I do all day.
I just me and Queenie justcreated a handbook for how
(23:14):
people can learn how to havemeaningful parole hearings,
because there's nothing in thesystem teaching us the language
and what's necessary in order togain a parole.
One of the things that I'velearned about, like you said,
being involved.
A lot of us are involved infrivolous things that don't mean
(23:34):
anything.
We take a lot of programs, weget involved with a lot of
things, but none of them arehelping us achieve the one thing
that almost every single personin prison wants, and that's
freedom.
It's not helping us towards ourrelease.
We go to the parole board withlike 40 programs and only two of
(23:55):
them it deals with the riskfactor that brought us to prison
.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
But outside of that, though, I think that it also
takes a paradigm shift ofunderstanding and like, when you
do the program, it's one thingto be in there like man, I'm
just in this so I can get thecertificate.
But I knew a lot of dudes thatwere only in the JC's because
(24:21):
they got to be a part of certainfundraisers Boy, they got
family days.
Yeah, you get a family day, andso when you look at it like
that, it's a lot of it that goesover your head.
You didn't get the message.
But when you go in there,understanding like, okay, this
(24:42):
is how things operate and thisis how I can get stuff done, let
me learn as much as I can, thenyou walk away with a whole
different list of benefits.
There's other programs too.
Like I did the MoneySparkprogram in there.
Do they still got that?
Yeah, they still got MoneySpark.
(25:04):
That's a good program and Idon't know how much guys are
really getting out of it, but Imean they giving real game in
that program.
I know there was another one Idon't know if it was MoneySpark
or if it was another one wherethey were like teaching about
the land, banking stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, that was a dude , as he ran out on his own.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
But yeah, I mean, that's great a game man.
You come home, get involved inthis land, bank all the hood
housing and all that stuff.
I know dudes that have reallycleaned their life up was big
time dope boys and now they likeoh no, I got a whole property
portfolio and stuff.
My one homeboy, he bought hisfirst property up in Lorraine
(25:50):
and it was like a triplex.
He bought it for like $7,000.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Do you remember a couple of weeks ago, you and I
were talking and you had saidyou had a shift in your thinking
.
When I became a week?
Yeah, and I remember you and Iwere talking to one.
I always bring up theconversation we had when I was
like I'm just going out there totry to survive.
You're like I want to go outthere and live these.
(26:20):
These is what you call it yourparadigm shifts.
A lot of people don't have this, this, this, that shift.
When I was in NA the other day.
A guy has said we have to maturein our manhood.
There's not a lot of peopleworking on maturing in their
manhood because the only thingthey're focused on, focusing on,
(26:42):
is getting out.
That's the main thing that theycare about is I do not want to
be in prison, and they focus somuch on wanting to get out.
They're not, they're not,they're not dealing with the
things, the factors that broughtthem into prison to help them
get out.
That was the reason why Ibrought up, brought up, brought
(27:02):
up with the things about theparole board and that even those
who don't have to see theparole board, there has to come
a point in your life where yousay I want to see the best
version of myself.
I want my family to be affectedby the best version of myself.
I won't rest until I see thebest version of myself, because
(27:25):
the way I am right now no longercuts it.
I feel like until you get to,until you get to that point, all
of these classes, all the help,all the assistance people give
you in here, or all the help andassistance you'll get out,
there is not going to beanything.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
No, and I feel like the average person in prison.
They think about freedom, ofcourse, all the time.
When I get out, when I get out,when I get out, that's all they
think about.
Of course, I'm not sayingeverybody, but I could say the
majority and be sure that.
But there's certain elementsthat they're lacking.
(28:04):
The first one should be whatled me to prison.
I got to change that.
Secondly should be what do Ineed to change in order to make
it to get out, whether it be anearly release or making it to
your, your update, whatever?
What do I need to change to getthere as quickly and as
(28:29):
efficiently as possible?
And then also, a lot of peopledon't even think about what's
going to happen when I get out,after I'm free.
What do I do then?
And I used to stress it so much,and I mean you remember the
blue book.
I used to write all the quotesin.
I ended up transcribing it allto a different book and I turned
(28:55):
it into like my life goals bookand I still got that book to
this day and I would write everysingle thing, whether it was a
movie, I wanted to see a videogame, I wanted to play food, I
wanted to try recipes, poetry,you know.
I wrote all my goals.
I would go down to the HopeCenter and get on the Ohio Means
Jobs computers and I would justwrite down all the different
(29:16):
jobs I wanted to apply for likeeverything in this book.
So the one thing that anybodycould never say about me was
like he ain't got no plan whenhe go home, you know.
You know like I hit the groundand just it was like having ADHD
, which I do have.
(29:36):
I hit the ground.
I was like I just got to dosomething, I got to get to it.
I got to get to it and peoplelike, dude, just calm down and
chill, and I'm like, no, youdon't understand.
I'm the dude that play videogames and all I think about is I
got to get the high score Right.
So when I came to life,especially this life that I've
been thinking and planning aboutfor 10 years, you know the plan
(30:00):
gets revised, this newinformation comes in, time goes
by, maturity happens.
You know I'm on plan 7.2 andI'm like I got to get to, I got
to get the high score, I got tomake this happen.
This whole damn plan 10 yearsof planning I'm trying to make
happen in weeks, right, you know.
(30:20):
So it's like people need tothink about that.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
But you're a goal getter and there was a part of
you that was not satisfied thatI need to get the high score and
because of that, that part wasso alive in you that it didn't
matter what environment you werein.
You were going to do your bestto get the things in which you
wanted.
And the beautiful part aboutthat is there's a lot of men in
(30:45):
prison with a lot of goodinformation to help you be
better if you want to.
There was a guy in here namedBo and he made this statement
and when he first said it itpissed me off because I thought
he was being arrogant.
And what do you say?
There's a man that's supposedto be able to provide for
himself, whether you're outthere or in here, and I'm like,
(31:07):
well, shoot, everybody can'tprovide for themselves in here
unless you hustle it.
But this to build these big 3Dart platforms, whatever they are
.
But these things are huge, butthey're 3D art.
And what he's been trying to dohere is he's trying to find
ways for guys to startbusinesses in here on their own.
(31:27):
There wouldn't be a businessmenlike contractors, but they had
to generate like $300, $400 amonth.
I never even conceived anythinglike that.
And so now he lit this fire inme to say how can you use your
talent right now in prison,right now, to generate you an
(31:48):
income to where you become lessof a burden to people out there?
But had he never made thatstatement, had he never made
that challenge, I would havejust kept sitting back and go
well, I can't do anything untilI get home.
And now I'm buying books onwriting, I'm trying to write
articles and I'm getting myskills up.
They're about to bring thiswoman down here for the Marshall
Projects.
She's going to teach us how towrite essays and they will buy
(32:09):
our essays.
And it's like all theseopportunities open up simply off
of a challenge that someonemade that I accepted once I
understood what he was talkingabout.
And there's challenges made tous every single day that,
instead of us accepting it andtrying to find ways to apply it,
we either say you don't knowwhat you're talking about or
(32:30):
we'll just miss them.
And this same kind of mindsetand this same kind of ability is
a transferable skill that youcould transfer the same
mentality out there.
And to think that everyrejection you get, every time
someone says that you can't.
Every time that you seesomething difficult, instead of
(32:50):
seeing it as something that, oh,they just picking on me or they
ain't giving me a chance see itas a challenge and rise to that
challenge to be something thatyou know you were meant to be
when you were doing it.
And that's how reckless we werewhen we were out here that we
got this fearless mentality.
You have one minute remaining.
I could do anything I want.
(33:11):
Imagine taking that samefearlessness, that same charge
ahead mentality, and apply ittowards something that's going
to benefit you and not harmanyone in the process.
We're warriors, man, but we actlike pussy sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Facts, but I like.
What you said, though, is likebeing able to transfer.
There's a lesson in everything,and that lesson doesn't just
apply to the thing at hand.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Absolutely.
You have to be willing to gotowards that challenge.
That challenge just makes usbetter, builds us, makes us
stronger, it teaches us thingsabout ourselves and the main
thing is, the challenge is notgoing to kill us if you get
backed up and keep moving.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right Failure, not going to kill us if we fail.
Failure is only failure if youstop Absolutely.
So you can't just take that onelittle bump and be like damn, I
failed.
You got to be like okay,regroup and attack it again.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Thank you for using GTL yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So what I was saying was, like every lesson you learn
in life man can be reapplied tosomething else.
Like, especially, like you knowyou do a lot of writing.
If you attack a life problem,the way that you construct a
story, then you know it's notexactly the same, but there's a
(34:40):
lot of wisdom in it.
You know you don't just, youdon't just start putting pen to
paper and you know the firstthing come out is what it is and
you turn it in.
You'd be like, no, okay, let'sthink about this.
What are we trying to writehere?
Like, what are we trying to doright now in life?
All right, what elements doesit need?
Oh well, I got some ideas thatI've been thinking of.
Let me make a list of thoseideas.
(35:00):
You know, like you constructedin an orderly manner and you
didn't show up unprepared toeven be there to write it in the
first place.
So it's the same thing out inlife.
Like first you got to figureout what the fuck it is you want
to do.
A lot of people say they wantstuff.
They don't even know what thatwant is.
They don't even know what itmeans to want that.
(35:21):
Like I want to get out ofprison, like we just used that
example.
I want to get out.
What the fuck are you going todo with it?
I want freedom.
What the fuck are you going todo with the freedom?
You know?
Like, what are you going to do?
I mean shit, I just don't wantto be in here.
Okay, you know what they say,man, a lot of us end up dead or
in jail.
So if you just don't want this,I mean, what the fuck else you
(35:43):
want?
Right?
But too often we don't sitthere on our rack and just be
like all right, man, what are mypossibilities, what can I, what
are the things that are closeto me being able to do?
But people just say I can't do.
You know, because that was mything.
It was like, dude, I'm from thestreets, you can't just sit
(36:04):
there and tell me I can't dosome shit, but you're going to
sit it in front of me, you know,and I just wish that everybody
was able to transfer that same.
You know, I'll give a fuckingmentality and apply it in a
positive way to something else.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
But you know, the problem that we have is a lot of
us can say are what?
But a lot of us don't know ourhouse, and that scares us.
It's so easy to tell you what Idesire I want a car, I want a
mansion, I want a helicopter, acouple of crocodiles with gators
on, I want a pair of keys.
(36:42):
We could tell you what we wantbecause it's easy to fantasize,
but then when you start saying,well, how are you going to get
it?
How are you going to find thestrength to do the things
necessary in order to get it?
Now you're talking aboutplanning.
Now you're talking aboutknowing your resources.
(37:03):
Now you're talking aboutseeking help.
Now you're talking about skills.
Now you're talking aboutlearning.
Now you're talking aboutapplying time, because most of
us don't get to the house ofthings.
You have to think about thefirst time, when you still had
the mentality that you had.
That brought you to prison, butthere was the ability to want
(37:25):
more.
I recall mine.
I was in Lebanon and the fairsjust came and picked us up for
doing the bank robberies andactually and I remember sitting
in the cell and telling myself Idon't want to live this way
anymore.
I don't want to do it and Ihonestly did not know how not to
(37:48):
live the way I have been livingfor 28 years of my life.
I had no clue and it scared meso much because that unknown
almost almost put it like ahopelessness in me.
I can't be anything elsebecause this is all I know and I
was fortunate enough to startbeing around individuals that I
(38:13):
was willing to listen to andlearn a little bit at a time.
But a lot of people don't knowhow to be better.
They are the way you was toldhow to be better.
When you was kid, they taughtme how to live better, but they
didn't teach me how to be better, how to take these things and
apply it in real time to thesituation, struggles and crises
(38:35):
in my life.
And because I don't know how todo that, I took survival method
.
Like you would tell me, don'tlive, don't survive.
But most of us never get out ofsurvival mode.
We never found anything withinourselves that teaches that
there's a life outside ofsurvival mode.
So we're always ready to fight,we're always ready to run,
(38:58):
we're always ready to hide or togame or try to find a backdoor
angle or try to find a way toslick ourselves through.
I'm in work to wait, be patient, to invest, to see so far down
the line as they focus on thatuntil it's achieved.
Anybody teaching us how to dothat?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Right and that's actually another episode that I
wanted to do with you too was,let me see, I got it right here.
Oh, it was about coming toprison when you're young.
So I'm actually going to make alist of all the episodes coming
up for the month and I'm goingto start publishing that list so
(39:42):
for the listeners, you know alittle more predictability and
stuff for what's coming down thepipeline.
But this episode I did I got isabout coming to prison when
you're young and of course, youknow you got to hold your own
right.
I mean, there are some peoplein there that are predators
against the younger andexperienced guys, but at the
(40:03):
same time you got to findmentors in prison.
You know, like I really hold onto a few memories, man, where,
like when I first started goingbald, you know I was, let me see
, I was 22,.
You know something like that Iwas old, I was old, and my dude
(40:24):
pointed it out in a meeting.
He was coming in through theroad behind me like hey, man,
you're going to light up top,I'm like get the fuck away from
me, man.
But once it really startedgetting bad, though, man, it was
this dude named Mike Mike, andMike Mike taught me how to shave
my head.
You know, that's a lot of trustto give another dude in prison,
man.
You know, and you know it's afew other.
(40:47):
You know, frank Nitty, you know, shout out to all these dudes.
Frank Nitty, man they sent menow, taught me how to, how to
use a needle and thread and do,made some of the flyer shit I've
ever seen, not just in prison,not just in prison Dude man.
He made a dude a whole damnsuit with a hat, a dress shirt
and everything you know, andthey could arrive with anything
(41:09):
you get off the shelf out here.
But you know, these are guys.
When I was young, when I was 18, 19, I was doing time with him
in Toledo and stuff.
You know, mike Mike, frankNitty, we was all doing time in
Toledo and these dudes pulled measide and started giving me
gang.
But you can't just trustanybody.
So, anyway, that's anotherepisode that I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Okay, no problem.
So, again I say what's that Goahead.
No, I was just saying that.
I'm just sitting there thinkingabout that, that how there's so
many people in here that theydon't even know how to live
their life and we have thisexpectation on them that they
should.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Right I mean.
So that's one of the issues ofyou know why we hear, why we
doing this podcast in firstplace and why we doing
mentorship both inside andoutside prison is because
everybody say, just clean upyour life, just live right.
Because they have theexpectation that we know what
that is and how to do it.
(42:12):
But I mean not everybody can doit.
I mean not everybody came froma good household, not everybody
had good examples and chose thebad one.
You know, I mean shit.
When you live in the street soyou grew up in prison, it's like
telling me to live right.
It's like this is all I know.
I know it's us against them.
You know, I know that.
(42:33):
You know I don't let nobody getmy space, I don't let it bite,
put me, I don't let nobody.
So when you say, do somethingdifferent, you like like what?
Because only the different Iknow is what I seen on the Cosby
show.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, but, but.
But you know.
You know it's also a tragedy.
People are so quick to tell youwhat you should do.
Very few are willing to takethe time to invest and show you
how to do it.
There's so many individuals thathave had people come into their
lives and they give them theglimmer that they are worth
(43:09):
something.
They could be something morethan what they chose.
And as soon as they come intolife and they really start to
believe it, those people aregone.
Yeah, and most of us that comeinto prison have had some form
of rejection or abandonment atsome point in our lives from
(43:30):
someone that we trusted andthought cared about us.
Now imagine when you start tobelieve and someone take that
away from you by them leaving,or someone make you believe that
all the stuff that you've beendoing your entire life was
unfairly done to you.
But you can rise above that andbe something better.
And then you start grasping onto it and then it's taken away
(43:54):
from you.
That's why mentorship is soimportant, because a mentor says
not only do I believe insomething in you worth investing
in, I'm going to invest my life, currency, which is our time,
into you.
Until you reach it, I'm notgoing to do work for you, but I
will support you and guide youto the best of my ability until
(44:16):
you're able to walk on your ownand give it to someone else.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, they're going to stay there with you and see
it through, but not any of themhave that mentor.
Yeah, I mean, you know how Ifeel about mentorship, man,
that's where it's at.
Yeah, that's where it's at.
I was a mentor and I need tobenefit of it.
It's not anything like you canget out of a book.
It's not anything that you canget off of a TV or a college
(44:43):
class or anything like thatMentorship man.
When you got somebody that youcan report back to what your
results after they showed you,they didn't tell you.
They showed you, let you go outthere and do it and then you
can report back and they can sitthere and guide you right there
in person.
Man, they stick around untilit's done.
(45:04):
That's the thing, is thepresence.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
And another thing that mentors do is they're able
to decipher information that youcan't do on your own.
One of the things that I alwayshad was I was always quick to
judge what I did.
I do something about it.
Man, I did something bad andI'm not stupid man, I'm not
gonna mess that up.
And my mentor said you can't dogood or bad right now because
(45:30):
you're just learning.
He said, whatever you do everytime you stumble, what did you
learn from it?
And he was always.
I mean, he had to keep drillingthat into my head because every
time I messed up, I was quickto criticize myself and judge
myself because of it.
And he had to get me out ofthat mentality of learn from
what you're doing, stop judgingyourself because of it.
(45:51):
And now, when I do things, Ithought, okay, what did I learn
from it?
Be better, do better.
That's one of the things that Iliked about NA, because I go to
NA all the time.
One of the things I like aboutthat is they teach you one day
at a time.
Looking at forever is just toobig of a price, but I can look
(46:11):
at it right now and, if I messup today, find out why that
wasn't messed up.
What was my trigger?
What caused me to relapse?
Because relapsing happened atthat moment.
It happened a long time ago.
Find that out, talk to someoneabout it and then get back on
the mission of recovery.
And this constant recycling of24 hours is easier for me to
(46:31):
handle.
But someone had to teach thatto me and they had to walk with
me, do it, and they had to stickwith me.
And when I was, when I was hadthese messed-up ways of thinking
and I wanted to beat myself up,they said don't be as hard on
yourself.
Start looking at yourself withkinder eyes.
Learn how to love yourself.
Learn how to forgive yourself.
I didn't know how to do that.
They sound like great things todo and I'm like, wow, who
(46:51):
wouldn't want to do that?
But how to do it I had no idea.
And to someone, show me andthey, they was patient enough to
give me every example that theypossibly could to help me get
it to where I.
All these things would become anatural part of who I am and I
could flush out some of thattoxic way of thinking.
It came from my bad trauma andall these other negative
(47:12):
experiences in my life.
Mentorship is crucial foranyone anyone but there's not a
lot of mentors out there.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
You're right.
You're right, man, it's not.
But you know what there wouldbe, I think, if there were more
people who sought mentorship.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
You think?
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean dude.
One thing that I've learned isthat it's it's always somebody
trying to tell you about theirexperience, like if you go ask,
like I just actually I just raninto a dude today.
I promise you it was my lastload of the day.
I was at work and I'm walkingout of the store and I see this
(47:58):
dude, he's got a Hennessy TRX,so it's a Dodge pickup truck,
but it's like on steroids, right, it's probably about a hundred
and fifty thousand dollar truck.
So I'm walking out you know,I'm really in the cars and shit
and I walk out and I see it.
I'm like whoa, like stop me inmy tracks.
And I'm like bro, like what'sup with this truck?
(48:20):
He's like, oh yeah, you know,he's on Nautilant and I'm like
man, how much this thing costs.
He's a little pretty penny.
He kind of like being big.
I'm like that's probably likelike a hundred and thirty,
hundred and forty.
So he's like, oh yeah, actually, yeah, you know.
So then we, he pumping gas.
I'm like, so what'd he getabout?
Like what, like 12 miles gallon.
(48:40):
He like, yeah, actually getabout 10 to 12 gallons.
I'm like man, so we just gotgoing in about this truck and
I'm like, if you don't mind me,asking like what do you do?
And he was like like he stoppedpumping his gas and turned and
had like a 10 minuteconversation with me.
You know like there's people outthere like, even if we're not
(49:02):
talking about mentorship, howmuch you know Like people just
like talking about themselves.
If you got a person talk, theykeep talking and talking.
All you got to do is ask theright questions.
And if you say, hey man, I lovewhat you did here and I really
want to do something similarLike would you mentor me?
It would blow their fuckingmind, cause nobody ever asked
(49:26):
that question Like yo.
Would you kind of show me howto do this?
Help me get my foot in the door?
And then like hell yeah, I raninto on the job.
I ran into people like this allthe time.
One dude asked me like yo, youwork here.
Like I want to figure out howto get in.
So I'm like all right, give meyour number, I pass it on to my
(49:50):
boss.
I start asking questions.
Dude hit me up.
I'm like yo, this is what I got.
And so he started telling meabout what he do.
I'm like, hey, actually, hey,man, I try to help you on this
side, if you can help me on thisside.
He was like bet, hell yeah, youknow Right.
So I mean cause he like man, Ilive in Columbus and I got a
whole fleet of trucks that'sdown in like Cincinnati area and
(50:12):
stuff.
So I'm trying to figure out howto get in where y'all at so I
can have a little local Columbusthing.
So I'm like damn, like all yougot to do is ask, but nobody
asked.
We got too much pride to ask.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah, but they'll say close mouth, don't get fed.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Man, and it's really rare that somebody's going to go
and put in all their time andeffort before they know how it's
going to be received.
You know.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
You know the interesting thing about that?
The guy who mentored me.
One of the things that he said,because I asked him like why
did you decide to mentor me?
This is 1,100 men in thisprison.
Why, why me?
And he told me.
He said you came askingquestions and he said when a
(50:58):
person come and asks mequestions, they're thirsty to
know, they're trying to figuresome things out, they're trying
to find out and they just don'tknow how.
So they start asking questions.
He said the people who just saythey want to be taught are
thieves, because they just wantto know enough to be slicker.
He said but you always comewith a question.
He said everything.
He said I have to be walking onthe yard and you were calling
to me.
Hey, I got a question for you.
(51:19):
And he said your questionsbecame so frequent that I was
like, ok, I'm going to give hima shot.
He said but if you didn't comeasking me questions, he said I
would just walk by you, like I'dalways speak to you, but I
wouldn't, I wouldn't havestopped.
And so, yeah, I think you areright.
People have to ask questions,they have to pursue.
(51:42):
Desire is shown by pursuit thethings that you desire the most
is the things that you're goingto pursue the hardest.
I don't care what that is, andso, yeah, I definitely agree.
If more people would set theirpride aside, set their ego aside
and say I need help and youlook like you're doing exactly
(52:04):
what I want to do, can you helpme?
I do believe more people wouldstep up to the plate.
But again, that's something thatwe need to learn how to do,
like if the cyclists keep comingright back around to people
think that simply because we'regrown, I had to learn that I
didn't even know how to make achoice.
Isn't that crazy?
(52:26):
I won't lie you made a choiceto come to prison.
I said why do you think I madea choice to come to prison?
Well, you knew what you weredoing and you knew what could
happen.
I said do you really think Iwas thinking about coming to
prison or not?
I committed my crime.
You think I was really on mymind like you know what.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
I'm going to go ahead and take this.
Yeah, let's see what that'slike.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
That's not the first thing, for my mind.
The first thing I was thinkingabout I'm going to do this and I
ain't going to get caught.
I thought I was triggered inthat.
So I learned that there werefive steps.
A person had to make a goodchoice, a mature choice, and I
didn't do any of them.
But that's something that hadto be taught to me and something
I had to learn.
(53:08):
And there's so many of us thatare doing things.
And then, when the consequenceshit us in the face and I'm not
just talking about people inprison, I'm talking about just
people in life we do so manythings that seem right at the
moment and it's based off of theemotion that we're having or
feeling or desire or want thatwhen we're dealing with the
consequences now, we're livingwith regret and, oh, I wish I
(53:30):
would have known better, andit's something that no one has
ever said.
It's like look, these are theways that you make a choice,
these are the steps that youneed to take.
At first they're gonna be hardbecause you're not gonna
remember them in real time, butthe more you practice them,
they'll just become secondnature.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
You know, I don't know if I ever said this on a
podcast, but one of the thingsthat got me into mentoring
people was actually when I camehome and I had a couple of
mentors.
You know, I had about threementors when I first came home
in different areas, and thefirst thing I started trying to
do is pass the game on to otherpeople.
(54:13):
I knew it was in my situationand you'd be surprised how many
people were like I don't give afuck, they're in this bad
situation with me and they saythey want relief.
But I'm like yo, look, andthey're like stop acting like.
You're better than me, you know.
And I actually, when I startedgetting money for real in this
(54:35):
trucking, I actually offered topay for like six or seven guys
to go to trucking school, andthat's like $5,000 a piece,
right, without any obligation.
I came like yo, I paid for this, you don't gotta pay me back,
just out of love and I want tosee you have opportunities that
(54:58):
I got.
I was like yo, I do this.
I never paid for anybody to goto trucking school to this day,
not because I wasn't gonnafollow through, but because they
was like oh hell, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
And then I check in, like hey,yo, you go down there to the B
and V and get that book.
Oh dog man, I'm serious.
(55:20):
And so, after I kept making thisoffer because then I started
making other offers, like youknow, investing together and all
this other stuff I got thiscall one day.
I was out on the road and I gota call from a dude that I ain't
talked to in like 15 years andI'm like yo, what's up?
He like hey, man, I was justtalking to so and so and they
(55:41):
was saying how you was gettingit on the truck inside and stuff
, and blah, blah, blah.
He was like yo, I done went outthere and you know I got the
book, I got my tips, you know Igot this, and that he's like hey
, you think I could ride in thetruck with you and stuff, just
so I can see what it's like onthe road.
It blew my mind.
I was like wait first off, whatthe fuck was dude telling you,
(56:04):
cause he ain't even done theshit how you go out and do all
damn steps.
Right, you know?
And that's the differencebetween people who get offered
something that they not readyfor and people who, like man, I
want to do this.
Let me figure out somebody whodoing it that can help me do it
to minimize my chances offailure.
(56:26):
Because that's the thing aboutmentorship is you doing it with
somebody who didn't already didit?
Right, we ain't got to gothrough here asking random blank
questions and you know, let mesee if I can try it.
And you know like no, you gotsomebody at hand that did that
shit and they're going to belike yeah, come here, come
(56:47):
closer, let me show you thewhole path, let me give you the
game.
No, no, no, once, this is whatyou got to do, you do that.
Come back to me.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
And I think that's a critical thing that you just
said.
You just said someone who'sready, because everyone's not
ready.
Like I said, there was a lot ofindividuals, especially when I
first got locked up, when I was18, 19, and 20, and maybe
probably about 23.
There's a lot of people thatwas telling me some good advice,
(57:20):
but I don't want to hear any ofthat.
You know, my mind was I'mgetting out of prison by any
means necessary.
So if I have to escape, I'mgoing to escape.
If I have to do bank robber,I'm going to do bank robber.
Whatever I got to do, that'swhat I'm going to do.
As they kill me in the process,so be it.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Well see, that's.
The beautiful part, though,about mentorship is that you
don't have to be ready.
All you got to do is ask Likeif you know I'd be ready to ask.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
I wasn't.
There was nothing that anyonecould tell me at that time that
I felt was more than what I know.
It's not that you know, eventhough everything that I did
completely turned to crap.
There was nothing a personcould tell me at that time that
I didn't think I knew more about.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
But see, it's not that you're not ready to ask,
it's that you don't understandthat asking is an option.
Yeah, I mean, we grew up in aculture that's like you, man,
stand up on your own too, right?
You don't be out here askingfor no handouts.
You don't be asked and you mindyour business.
(58:22):
You know, this is the stuffthat we are taught growing up.
So we not about to go and askan old man about his business.
We not about to go up here andask some stranger for help, you
know.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah, but really there's a reason I keep hearing
around here about these youngguys is self-made, I'm self-made
.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
I'm self-made.
Speaker 3 (58:40):
There's no such thing as self-made, that kind of
thing, to that thought thatyou're talking about.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
There's no such thing as self-made.
You had somebody that supportedyou on something, gave you an
opportunity when you ain'tdeserve.
It Was like hey man, I watchyour kids while you do night
school, whatever the fuck.
It was Like yeah, you put it insome work, but you ain't.
No man is an island.
That's a quote from the Buddha.
(59:03):
No man is an island untohimself.
You have somebody that helpedyou, because really, how the
fuck you do it if nobody evereven introduced it to you?
I mean, unless you're coming upwith some new shit.
But I mean, coming from wherewe come from, it is extremely
(59:26):
rare that you have not been toldnot to stand up on your own,
not to mind your own business,not to be out here begging, not
to be you know.
So by the time we grow,especially if we was in the
streets, we were like man, Iain't about to go ask some
random dude, especially notnobody that's white or a
different race, because they arean outsider.
(59:46):
But really, in all actualities,if you're not ready, just come
up like, hey man, I'm interestedin that.
Like, can you tell me about it?
And when you realize that askingthe question is an option, what
does it take for somebody toget involved in something like
(01:00:07):
that, you know, and then letthem, you know, or even ask
further.
Just be like hey, man, if youcan get X, y and Z and come
holler at me when you get that,you know, when you get some of
these prerequisites under yourbelt, come holler at me and I'll
see what I can do, becausereally that's the test.
(01:00:28):
That's to see if you want it.
And, like I said, it's a lot oftimes where it's so many people
out here who can't wait to passit on.
I mean, think about how manypeople that got their own
business and they want to leaveit to their kids.
But their kids don't give afuck about it, they can.
(01:00:49):
All they want is somebodythat's going to come and care
like they care, and they justgive them the whole game.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
So you think about someone like you, who made it
when everyone thought that youcouldn't, and you're like man
this is something that'sactually possible for a lot of
other individuals.
You can't wait to tell somebodythis is possible and then show
them you can have this too.
That's also how you even comein here, coming back into the
prison and giving a positivestory, instead of all these
(01:01:20):
nightmares and horror stories.
What men need to hear.
Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
And I reached out to God and I went away.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
The first thing he said oh yeah, when you get out
you're going to be struggling.
Oh, y'all are going to struggle, so get ready for the struggle,
because you're going tostruggle and everyone's going to
tell you no, I'm just like, whywould you say something like
that?
Like, okay, we understand thatlife ain't going to be a piece
of cake, but you don't have totell us that it's already.
People that, whether theyadmitted or not, already nervous
about going out.
(01:01:50):
And then you're dumping thatextra anxiety and stress on them
, telling them about somethingthat may not even happen to them
.
Struggling is a possibility,but everyone who got to go, they
got out of prison and struggled.
They had to deal with some reallife stuff out there, but it
wasn't.
It wasn't necessarily astruggle.
And they try to tell peoplethis is what you're going to
(01:02:12):
experience.
To me, to me, that's justthat's a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I mean, to be honest, man, that's irresponsible, for
real man.
I mean it's irresponsiblebecause, basically, I already
told you how the system trainsus to aim low.
And if all you tell me about isabout how I'm going to be in
(01:02:38):
the trenches and in the mud,know that the first thing I'm
going to think about is thefirst few steps outside the
trenches.
Damn, I just want to get outthe trench, man, it's going to
be hard.
I'm going to be struggling, man, all right.
Well, what can I do to makethis struggle the least as
possible?
Fuck the struggle.
I want to get out the struggle.
(01:02:59):
Show me how to get past that.
Don't just tell me that that'sthere.
That's like saying somebody'sgoing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
You have one minute remaining.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Somebody be like hey man, I know you got to go East
I-70 shut down.
What the fuck does that tell me?
Where is it shut down at?
How do I get around it?
How do I get to where I need togo?
Yeah, it's 70 shut down, bro,sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
You can go down there .
They can definitely get thatthat way, but I love you, man.
Definitely great conversation,as always.
Yeah, I'll be in touch with you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
All right, man.
Hey, thanks again for being apart of this man, and y'all look
forward to the next one.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Absolutely, absolutely Big good man.
Tell the family I love them.
Be blessed man.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
All right, love you, bro, be blessed.
All right, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Thank you for using GTL.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
The Lockdown to Legacy podcast is proud to be a
part of the Bussprout podcastcommunity network.
The Lockdown to Legacy isrecorded at Kohatch in their
lovely audiophile room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own Remy Jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:04:32):
two legacycom stories atlockdowntoolegacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on Facebook at theLockdown to Legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Lockdown to Legacy stories from the
inside out.
I'm your host, remy Jones.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm co-host Debbie Jones.
We are a husband and wife teamhere to bring you the real life
stories, experiences andquestions around the American
criminal justice system.
We do advise discretion withthis podcast.
I think we should put that outthere first and foremost.
Yes, we are going to talk aboutexperiences that happen inside
the prison system, outside ofprison systems.
(00:46):
We will use language that mightbe offensive, but we intend to
keep it real.
And if that's not for you, wetotally understand, but please
do what's best for yourlistening ears.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh, we're about to keep it real, son.
Our goal of this podcast is toshare the inside realities of
the American prison and criminaljustice system, from precharges
all the way to post-release,from the voices of those who've
experienced it firsthand,including me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
That's right, we're going to get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Lockdown the Legacy.
I'm your host, remy Jones, andthis will be another warrants
wisdom episode, so I lookforward to having that call with
our friend Warren.
It's kind of a deepconversation, man, but any of
you guys who've been listeningfor a while know that that's our
(01:54):
regular man.
That's our thing is deepconversation to philosophical
guys who just get to kind ofkick the ball back and forth.
So of course we go down therabbit hole and the subject was
kind of planned but it developedinto its own thing and so what
we wanted to talk about was thevalue of getting involved.
(02:16):
We talked about college andprison, we talked about
vocations and trades and stufflike that.
But it just kind of dawned on meI didn't want to give the wrong
impression to you guys thatthere's not stuff available in a
good way, like there could be alot more, and for the most part
(02:38):
it is very much on theindividual to pursue this stuff
and in some ways you know it'slike, yeah, that's how it should
be, but at the same timethere's not a lot of teaching or
giving the information of whatyou don't know.
You know, if you don't know it'savailable, then of course
you're not seeking it out.
So there are a lot of programsand most of them, or at least a
(03:00):
lot of them, are started byinmates and they're very
valuable.
I myself did participate in alot of them and Warren actually
not only participated butactually created some of them.
So, you know, here's theconversation with Warren and his
call, and, you know, feel freeto give your feedback on what
(03:20):
you think and if you have any,any suggestions for stuff that
we left out, you know, or otherstuff that you might be curious
about.
All right, so stay tuned andthanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
This is a prepaid debit call from Warren, an
inmate at the GraffinCorrectional Institution.
To accept this call.
Press zero to refuse this call.
Hang up or press one to preventcalls from this.
This call is from a DRCcorrectional facility and is
(04:05):
subject to monitoring andrecording.
Utilization of an unapprovedapplication and three-way calls
to communicate are strictlyprohibited and a violation of
DRC policy.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Thank you for using GTL.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What's up, bro?
What's up bro.
I'm all right, man.
How are you?
I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I had a pretty good day today, so, yeah, everything
seemed to be moving in a gooddirection for me.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I'm glad to hear.
I'm glad to hear because youknow we ain't just, you know,
setting caught up in a while.
So I'm glad to hear that it'sall going well.
Things are going pretty smoothover here.
You know, no bad news is goodnews as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You said it's good news as far as you're concerned,
as far as everything going goodover there, yeah, no bad news.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No bad news is good news to me.
No bad news great news.
You know I had a pretty chillwork week there.
Kids all doing well.
Yeah, I ain't got, I got nostresses right now, very minor
stresses that I can deal withforever as long as I'm concerned
(05:11):
.
Yeah, oh, I don't know if Itold you, but you know we did
that A whole 30 thing for the 30days, did I?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, I remember you telling me about that.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, we both lost like 20 and 22 pounds.
Wow, 30 days, no added workoutWow.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So is it going to be an ongoing thing, or are you
going to you like I'm cool?
Speaker 1 (05:41):
So for DJs it's got to be an ongoing thing for a
while, like slowly reintroducecertain stuff just to see where
you know, think she might havean allergy or something to.
So we got to kind of figurethat out, narrow it down.
But for me I just felt like Ifelt so much better after doing
it that I don't really need thatstuff.
(06:03):
I mean, it's a lot of stuffthat I'll probably just not pick
back up, like all the, you know, the added sugar and all the
processed stuff and maybe evensome dairy.
Like cut back on that a lot.
Yeah, like I might not gostrictly without it, but as far
as I'm concerned I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
That ain't going to hurt you less than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right, and now that I know I can go without it like
100%, you know what's the harmin cutting back 80%?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Yeah, I know Christine was telling me a lot
that a lot of times.
When she said, well, I said,well, I'm eating what are you
eating?
I said, well, I'm eating thenoodles and some fish.
And she said you can't justkeep eating noodles and fish.
And so recently I've beenstarting to buy real, real food
peas and green, green beans andthings like that and I was like
(07:05):
my, my thing is not that I don'twant to eat it, it's the parent
part that I'm particularlycareful.
You know you should do thisreal quick.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Four minutes, I'm done.
I had a um when I was overthere in a C one I had a bunkie
that everybody thought was theweirdest dude ever and he was
perfectly normal in my eyes, man.
But the reason why they thoughthe was weird is because he had
(07:35):
a plate and a fork and he onlyate like rice and green beans
and fish, like he prepared itand put it all on a plate
separately and ate it with afork.
And people was like man, you'rea monkey, weird, I'm like bro,
that is normal as hell.
My only question is where thefuck did he get this fork at
(07:57):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, they thought that I was crazy because, um,
they, they was passing out, uh,hot cocoa during the, during the
winter, because, you know,being a normal, they do a lot of
different things here.
And they said we'll bring yourcup down and I go, I don't own a
cup.
And they said what I said Idon't own a cup.
They said why don't you own acup?
I said, well, I don't drink hotbeverages.
(08:23):
First of all, I say, and Idrink water, but I drink water,
I don't drink the water bottle.
They sell water here, Causethat's why I just I just drink,
I drink water, bottle water, sothere's no need for me to own a
cup.
And they thought that was thestrangest and weirdest thing,
that I don't own a cup.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Put them.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I don't put it in the cup.
I drink my water out of thebottle.
I don't drink hot beverages andvery seldomly do I drink a soda
, and a soda comes right in thecan, so I just drink it right
off the can.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I mean that just goes to show that institutionalism
is real and even for, like, evenfor the staff.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Possibly.
Yeah, and that's.
I think that's one of theproblems that I noticed about
being locked up is because wealways get the worst and most
extreme version andunderstanding of what
institutionalization looks likeand we don't think of the more
(09:29):
minor ways that we've beeninstitutionalized and so let's
point it out to you oh, that'sbeing institutionalized as well.
And then, because a lot of usare institutionalized, I think
the I think anyone who servedover five years in prison, if
maybe three, isinstitutionalized in some form
(09:49):
or fashion.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
For sure, 100%.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Be here because others, but definitely
institutionalized Because thenumbers say it.
Studies have shown thatindividuals, when you get locked
up, it takes you 18 months tobecome acclimated to the prison
environment, but if you do morethan 18 months, it takes you at
(10:13):
least three years to becomere-acclimated to society.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I can understand that .
I don't see that.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
How does it take you double the time being in here,
that it takes you to get used tobeing in prison?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well, you know, that's the way it is with
anything almost really Like whenit comes to habits, addictions,
anything like that.
You can form an addiction or abad habit way easier and quicker
than you can break it.
Right?
Because breaking it, you haveto not only just stop doing it,
(10:49):
but you also have to replace it,which is interesting because
when you form the bad habit oraddiction, you never think about
what it replaces, right?
But you know, I believe thatwholeheartedly, man, because I
(11:09):
mean, we talked about this a lot.
I first came home and you knowmy mom was like, just take some
time to chill, just like go hangout with your like find your
old friends.
And like I was like nope, likefirst off, there's people that
I've had every opportunity toget in contact with that I
(11:29):
intentionally did not, because Itold my mom I was like man, I
don't want the opportunity tocreate any bad habits or to lose
any discipline that I'vecreated in my life.
So what I did was I knew I wasinstitutionalized, but I
(11:51):
actually embraced it and allowedit to become a big boon for me.
You know, like I literally toldpeople this like I'm already
used to not being around myfamily, I'm already used to not
owning, you know, a lot ofaccumulated, you know, material
items.
I'm already used to not havinga lot of money, so I can, you
(12:15):
know, make it stretch further.
You know I was like so what I'mgoing to do is I'm going to get
in this truck and I'm going tojust go.
I'm used to being in the gymthree hours a day.
I'm used to, like, you knowalso, you know, taking five
college classes at a time andplaying all these, you know
whatever to fill my day.
(12:36):
So I got in the truck and wasworking like man I don't
recommend this for anybody, butI got in the truck and was
working like 15 hour days, fivedays a week, you know.
And I just saved my money, dude, like other than my car.
Like I paid my car off superquick.
I paid my motorcycle off superquick, like both of them in like
a year or less.
(12:58):
But I was shopping for clothesat Sam's Club, like the same
place.
I got my groceries to pack mylunches and stuff on the road.
I was over there like I'm goingto get these t-shirts and I'm
going to get these jeans.
These are like some good jeans,you know.
And people was like this islike a fry, yeah.
(13:20):
So I mean, even if it's notlike the, you know what society
makes you think is the versionof stereo, of institutionalized,
where you like bat shit crazyor something Like there is
certain stuff that it sticks toyou.
You know, like for the longestman, I remember feeling like
(13:44):
something was missing, like Iwas forgetting something.
Right, and it was because Ididn't have count three times a
day.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
You didn't have what.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I didn't have count three times a day, wow.
So at certain times of the dayit's not that it was like I was
like fucked up about it, but Iwould just get this weird
feeling like like damn, did Iforget something?
Like am I forgetting?
Damn, I get to checking mypockets and everything.
Man, like damn, I forgetsomething.
I feel like I'm forgettingsomething.
Oh, it's four o'clock, you know.
(14:14):
So it was just weird, man.
It was weird, but I made sure Ididn't allow it to interfere
with my life and I know that inthere, especially being around
it all the time, that was normal, you know.
So I could understand whypeople was like man, you're a
funky weird.
It's because they've beenneeding out of Tupperware with a
(14:36):
spork for, you know, eightyears.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Right, but it's interesting how we are
institutionalized in theinstitution by doing different
things, like some people,institutionalized through their
religion, but they are, you know, we call them Bible bumpers.
Some people areinstitutionalized by working out
(14:58):
all day long.
That's all they do, they eatand they out as workout.
Or you become institutionalizedthe way I have, the way I have
been, and that's througheducating myself, because I knew
, I always felt that I didn'tknow enough.
I always felt that I was behind, I always felt inadequate, and
(15:23):
so what I started doing was Inever wanted to be in front of
people and sound stupid.
I never wanted to be put into asituation where I didn't know.
And the strange thing is beingaround a lot of white dudes.
They already had this stigmathat black dudes were stupid
anyway, and so any chance theygot to correct you on improper
(15:46):
grammar or any time they got achance to show that they were
just a little bit moreintelligent, they would take
advantage of that.
Unless they were just scared,you was going to beat them up
and I noticed that I enjoyed itso much that I started
accelerating extremely fast bylearning, because my mind
(16:11):
processes a lot of informationextremely fast and it retains it
and I thought, using examplesin order to hold on to it.
So now, while I'm at now, I'vekind of outpaced a lot of
individuals who I'm around andI'll paste a lot of my family
members, and it's like trying toswim somewhere and then you
(16:34):
realize you're in the middle ofthe ocean by yourself and you
can't really relate to anyonethat you talk to, you can't
really relate to the individualswho you're around, but there's
always this deep-seated feelingof being alone.
And that's not unusual for mebecause I've spent years being
(16:57):
alone, physically alone.
I've spent years in the whole,so in a cell by myself, when you
had other people being noisy.
But I'm comfortable being bymyself to the point of I feel
more natural being around myself, being around other people.
And I know all of this isantisocial behavior, I know it's
(17:19):
antisocial thinking, Iunderstand all of that, but this
is another way that I've becomeinstitutionalized, within the
normal ways of beinginstitutionalized.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
But you know what, though?
You know what.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
I have no problem staying away from people.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
That was like a preference for me, but I don't
understand as part of my beinginstitutionalized as well, but
that's one of the things thatyou can take and make a positive
characteristic, because I'm thesame way.
I prefer to not be aroundpeople, and, of course, you
(17:59):
could say that's a residual fromprison, which really I didn't
hang around too many peoplebefore prison.
I always had a circle aboutthree or less.
That is a quality that is superlacking in society today.
There are not too many peoplethat can just be content with
(18:21):
being alone.
I mean, that's that socialmedia.
This is the social media era.
Everybody got to feel liked,they got to feel like somebody's
paying attention to them, andall this other stuff where it's
like you leave me alone for awhile, watch me work, man,
because I'm about to you know mymind get to going.
(18:43):
I'm going to do some of my bestwork uninterrupted.
I mean, hell, I might just belazy, who knows?
But I will love it.
But you know what, though?
Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I would say, even when I tell people I don't
really watch the news and theylike, well, why don't you watch
the news?
I said.
I didn't say I don't watch news.
I said I don't really watch thenews, like I don't.
I'm not obsessed with seeingthe news every single day.
I can get a wrap up of the news.
Generally they're going to beplaying the same thing,
especially like local news.
(19:16):
They're going to show you thesame, the same story, like three
or four times in a week.
World news I can read a littleticker or I can catch.
I can catch the world newsmaybe Wednesday and the news is
not really moving that much fromday to day, but there are
people who watch it every singleday.
We have a station is justbecause we do.
(19:37):
We get Fox news or we get CNN,oh, fox news is the worst, honey
.
And they will sit there andwatch Fox news and see it in all
day long.
Now, only a small portion ofthese broadcast news is about
actual news.
The rest of it is aboutcommentary what people think
(19:57):
about the news, how they feelabout the news and all the other
stuff like that One.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
so called expert or another.
They become obsessed with this.
Yeah, I said one or another socalled experts giving their
opinion Right.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And they become.
They become obsessed with thisand I tell them, like I like
movies, but I don't I don'treally watch the news that often
.
But for a lot of people thatlike, well, I'm keeping up with
what was going on in the world,yeah, but you don't have to do
that 24 hours a day, you want todo that every single day.
The world, the world's notchanging that much like that to
where you need to be involved orconcerned about it.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Right, I want to circle back to something you
said earlier, though, when youwere talking about, like
religion and some of the otherthings that people kind of get
institutionalized in.
So, actually, I wanted to talkabout today the value of getting
involved, you know, inside ofprison, and you know we talked
(20:57):
about, like trades and collegeand stuff like that, and we
talked about the value of havinga routine in prison, right, but
there's so much more that'savailable inside there.
Don't get me wrong.
There's a whole lot lacking,but I mean, like myself, I've
been a part of some things.
I know you've done a whole lotof things, and I just made a
(21:21):
small list of some of the thingsthat I was kind of using as
examples.
So we both did the Braille,braille program until they shut
it down, right, and that washuge.
I mean I'm talking about stuffthat, even if it doesn't give
you a certificate or anythinglike that, like it's a skill
that you can take to the outsideworld.
(21:42):
We were both into JC's.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And even though I didn't really take that as far
as I could have, I mean, weren'tyou like up there in like the
president or something like thatyeah Y'all's the president.
Yeah, and that's real lifeskills Like that is stuff that
when you get out here and youwant to know, like how it works
at the upper levels of you knowgovernment or you know a company
(22:12):
or something that you want toget involved and you know that
those processes and how thatstuff works, that is exceptional
because, like you said, youdon't ever want to be in a
situation where you know youfeel like you're the dumbest one
in the room.
That's something that they donot expect you to know.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I started Iron Road in Ashland today and that's
actually what I'm trying to getmy bachelor's degree in, the
bachelor's in science andleadership and that's what she
explained to bachelor's degreesabout.
It's about teaching you how togo into company and helping the
workforce become more efficient,and she did this.
(22:52):
This degree will help you.
You just go from company tocompany, learn how to do that.
That kind of fits in mywheelhouse, because I was
certified as a life coach andthen I got I'm going to be a
transformational coach, but I'ma teacher.
This is what I do all day.
I just me and Queenie justcreated a handbook for how
(23:14):
people can learn how to havemeaningful parole hearings,
because there's nothing in thesystem teaching us the language
and what's necessary in order togain a parole.
One of the things that I'velearned about, like you said,
being involved.
A lot of us are involved infrivolous things that don't mean
(23:34):
anything.
We take a lot of programs, weget involved with a lot of
things, but none of them arehelping us achieve the one thing
that almost every single personin prison wants, and that's
freedom.
It's not helping us towards ourrelease.
We go to the parole board withlike 40 programs and only two of
(23:55):
them it deals with the riskfactor that brought us to prison
.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
But outside of that, though, I think that it also
takes a paradigm shift ofunderstanding and like, when you
do the program, it's one thingto be in there like man, I'm
just in this so I can get thecertificate.
But I knew a lot of dudes thatwere only in the JC's because
(24:21):
they got to be a part of certainfundraisers Boy, they got
family days.
Yeah, you get a family day, andso when you look at it like
that, it's a lot of it that goesover your head.
You didn't get the message.
But when you go in there,understanding like, okay, this
(24:42):
is how things operate and thisis how I can get stuff done, let
me learn as much as I can, thenyou walk away with a whole
different list of benefits.
There's other programs too.
Like I did the MoneySparkprogram in there.
Do they still got that?
Yeah, they still got MoneySpark.
(25:04):
That's a good program and Idon't know how much guys are
really getting out of it, but Imean they giving real game in
that program.
I know there was another one Idon't know if it was MoneySpark
or if it was another one wherethey were like teaching about
the land, banking stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, that was a dude , as he ran out on his own.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
But yeah, I mean, that's great a game man.
You come home, get involved inthis land, bank all the hood
housing and all that stuff.
I know dudes that have reallycleaned their life up was big
time dope boys and now they likeoh no, I got a whole property
portfolio and stuff.
My one homeboy, he bought hisfirst property up in Lorraine
(25:50):
and it was like a triplex.
He bought it for like $7,000.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Do you remember a couple of weeks ago, you and I
were talking and you had saidyou had a shift in your thinking
.
When I became a week?
Yeah, and I remember you and Iwere talking to one.
I always bring up theconversation we had when I was
like I'm just going out there totry to survive.
You're like I want to go outthere and live these.
(26:20):
These is what you call it yourparadigm shifts.
A lot of people don't have this, this, this, that shift.
When I was in NA the other day.
A guy has said we have to maturein our manhood.
There's not a lot of peopleworking on maturing in their
manhood because the only thingthey're focused on, focusing on,
(26:42):
is getting out.
That's the main thing that theycare about is I do not want to
be in prison, and they focus somuch on wanting to get out.
They're not, they're not,they're not dealing with the
things, the factors that broughtthem into prison to help them
get out.
That was the reason why Ibrought up, brought up, brought
(27:02):
up with the things about theparole board and that even those
who don't have to see theparole board, there has to come
a point in your life where yousay I want to see the best
version of myself.
I want my family to be affectedby the best version of myself.
I won't rest until I see thebest version of myself, because
(27:25):
the way I am right now no longercuts it.
I feel like until you get to,until you get to that point, all
of these classes, all the help,all the assistance people give
you in here, or all the help andassistance you'll get out,
there is not going to beanything.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
No, and I feel like the average person in prison.
They think about freedom, ofcourse, all the time.
When I get out, when I get out,when I get out, that's all they
think about.
Of course, I'm not sayingeverybody, but I could say the
majority and be sure that.
But there's certain elementsthat they're lacking.
(28:04):
The first one should be whatled me to prison.
I got to change that.
Secondly should be what do Ineed to change in order to make
it to get out, whether it be anearly release or making it to
your, your update, whatever?
What do I need to change to getthere as quickly and as
(28:29):
efficiently as possible?
And then also, a lot of peopledon't even think about what's
going to happen when I get out,after I'm free.
What do I do then?
And I used to stress it so much,and I mean you remember the
blue book.
I used to write all the quotesin.
I ended up transcribing it allto a different book and I turned
(28:55):
it into like my life goals bookand I still got that book to
this day and I would write everysingle thing, whether it was a
movie, I wanted to see a videogame, I wanted to play food, I
wanted to try recipes, poetry,you know.
I wrote all my goals.
I would go down to the HopeCenter and get on the Ohio Means
Jobs computers and I would justwrite down all the different
(29:16):
jobs I wanted to apply for likeeverything in this book.
So the one thing that anybodycould never say about me was
like he ain't got no plan whenhe go home, you know.
You know like I hit the groundand just it was like having ADHD
, which I do have.
(29:36):
I hit the ground.
I was like I just got to dosomething, I got to get to it.
I got to get to it and peoplelike, dude, just calm down and
chill, and I'm like, no, youdon't understand.
I'm the dude that play videogames and all I think about is I
got to get the high score Right.
So when I came to life,especially this life that I've
been thinking and planning aboutfor 10 years, you know the plan
(30:00):
gets revised, this newinformation comes in, time goes
by, maturity happens.
You know I'm on plan 7.2 andI'm like I got to get to, I got
to get the high score, I got tomake this happen.
This whole damn plan 10 yearsof planning I'm trying to make
happen in weeks, right, you know.
(30:20):
So it's like people need tothink about that.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
But you're a goal getter and there was a part of
you that was not satisfied thatI need to get the high score and
because of that, that part wasso alive in you that it didn't
matter what environment you werein.
You were going to do your bestto get the things in which you
wanted.
And the beautiful part aboutthat is there's a lot of men in
(30:45):
prison with a lot of goodinformation to help you be
better if you want to.
There was a guy in here namedBo and he made this statement
and when he first said it itpissed me off because I thought
he was being arrogant.
And what do you say?
There's a man that's supposedto be able to provide for
himself, whether you're outthere or in here, and I'm like,
(31:07):
well, shoot, everybody can'tprovide for themselves in here
unless you hustle it.
But this to build these big 3Dart platforms, whatever they are
.
But these things are huge, butthey're 3D art.
And what he's been trying to dohere is he's trying to find
ways for guys to startbusinesses in here on their own.
(31:27):
There wouldn't be a businessmenlike contractors, but they had
to generate like $300, $400 amonth.
I never even conceived anythinglike that.
And so now he lit this fire inme to say how can you use your
talent right now in prison,right now, to generate you an
(31:48):
income to where you become lessof a burden to people out there?
But had he never made thatstatement, had he never made
that challenge, I would havejust kept sitting back and go
well, I can't do anything untilI get home.
And now I'm buying books onwriting, I'm trying to write
articles and I'm getting myskills up.
They're about to bring thiswoman down here for the Marshall
Projects.
She's going to teach us how towrite essays and they will buy
(32:09):
our essays.
And it's like all theseopportunities open up simply off
of a challenge that someonemade that I accepted once I
understood what he was talkingabout.
And there's challenges made tous every single day that,
instead of us accepting it andtrying to find ways to apply it,
we either say you don't knowwhat you're talking about or
(32:30):
we'll just miss them.
And this same kind of mindsetand this same kind of ability is
a transferable skill that youcould transfer the same
mentality out there.
And to think that everyrejection you get, every time
someone says that you can't.
Every time that you seesomething difficult, instead of
(32:50):
seeing it as something that, oh,they just picking on me or they
ain't giving me a chance see itas a challenge and rise to that
challenge to be something thatyou know you were meant to be
when you were doing it.
And that's how reckless we werewhen we were out here that we
got this fearless mentality.
You have one minute remaining.
I could do anything I want.
(33:11):
Imagine taking that samefearlessness, that same charge
ahead mentality, and apply ittowards something that's going
to benefit you and not harmanyone in the process.
We're warriors, man, but we actlike pussy sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Facts, but I like.
What you said, though, is likebeing able to transfer.
There's a lesson in everything,and that lesson doesn't just
apply to the thing at hand.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Absolutely.
You have to be willing to gotowards that challenge.
That challenge just makes usbetter, builds us, makes us
stronger, it teaches us thingsabout ourselves and the main
thing is, the challenge is notgoing to kill us if you get
backed up and keep moving.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right Failure, not going to kill us if we fail.
Failure is only failure if youstop Absolutely.
So you can't just take that onelittle bump and be like damn, I
failed.
You got to be like okay,regroup and attack it again.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Thank you for using GTL yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So what I was saying was, like every lesson you learn
in life man can be reapplied tosomething else.
Like, especially, like you knowyou do a lot of writing.
If you attack a life problem,the way that you construct a
story, then you know it's notexactly the same, but there's a
(34:40):
lot of wisdom in it.
You know you don't just, youdon't just start putting pen to
paper and you know the firstthing come out is what it is and
you turn it in.
You'd be like, no, okay, let'sthink about this.
What are we trying to writehere?
Like, what are we trying to doright now in life?
All right, what elements doesit need?
Oh well, I got some ideas thatI've been thinking of.
Let me make a list of thoseideas.
(35:00):
You know, like you constructedin an orderly manner and you
didn't show up unprepared toeven be there to write it in the
first place.
So it's the same thing out inlife.
Like first you got to figureout what the fuck it is you want
to do.
A lot of people say they wantstuff.
They don't even know what thatwant is.
They don't even know what itmeans to want that.
(35:21):
Like I want to get out ofprison, like we just used that
example.
I want to get out.
What the fuck are you going todo with it?
I want freedom.
What the fuck are you going todo with the freedom?
You know?
Like, what are you going to do?
I mean shit, I just don't wantto be in here.
Okay, you know what they say,man, a lot of us end up dead or
in jail.
So if you just don't want this,I mean, what the fuck else you
(35:43):
want?
Right?
But too often we don't sitthere on our rack and just be
like all right, man, what are mypossibilities, what can I, what
are the things that are closeto me being able to do?
But people just say I can't do.
You know, because that was mything.
It was like, dude, I'm from thestreets, you can't just sit
(36:04):
there and tell me I can't dosome shit, but you're going to
sit it in front of me, you know,and I just wish that everybody
was able to transfer that same.
You know, I'll give a fuckingmentality and apply it in a
positive way to something else.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
But you know, the problem that we have is a lot of
us can say are what?
But a lot of us don't know ourhouse, and that scares us.
It's so easy to tell you what Idesire I want a car, I want a
mansion, I want a helicopter, acouple of crocodiles with gators
on, I want a pair of keys.
(36:42):
We could tell you what we wantbecause it's easy to fantasize,
but then when you start saying,well, how are you going to get
it?
How are you going to find thestrength to do the things
necessary in order to get it?
Now you're talking aboutplanning.
Now you're talking aboutknowing your resources.
(37:03):
Now you're talking aboutseeking help.
Now you're talking about skills.
Now you're talking aboutlearning.
Now you're talking aboutapplying time, because most of
us don't get to the house ofthings.
You have to think about thefirst time, when you still had
the mentality that you had.
That brought you to prison, butthere was the ability to want
(37:25):
more.
I recall mine.
I was in Lebanon and the fairsjust came and picked us up for
doing the bank robberies andactually and I remember sitting
in the cell and telling myself Idon't want to live this way
anymore.
I don't want to do it and Ihonestly did not know how not to
(37:48):
live the way I have been livingfor 28 years of my life.
I had no clue and it scared meso much because that unknown
almost almost put it like ahopelessness in me.
I can't be anything elsebecause this is all I know and I
was fortunate enough to startbeing around individuals that I
(38:13):
was willing to listen to andlearn a little bit at a time.
But a lot of people don't knowhow to be better.
They are the way you was toldhow to be better.
When you was kid, they taughtme how to live better, but they
didn't teach me how to be better, how to take these things and
apply it in real time to thesituation, struggles and crises
(38:35):
in my life.
And because I don't know how todo that, I took survival method
.
Like you would tell me, don'tlive, don't survive.
But most of us never get out ofsurvival mode.
We never found anything withinourselves that teaches that
there's a life outside ofsurvival mode.
So we're always ready to fight,we're always ready to run,
(38:58):
we're always ready to hide or togame or try to find a backdoor
angle or try to find a way toslick ourselves through.
I'm in work to wait, be patient, to invest, to see so far down
the line as they focus on thatuntil it's achieved.
Anybody teaching us how to dothat?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Right and that's actually another episode that I
wanted to do with you too was,let me see, I got it right here.
Oh, it was about coming toprison when you're young.
So I'm actually going to make alist of all the episodes coming
up for the month and I'm goingto start publishing that list so
(39:42):
for the listeners, you know alittle more predictability and
stuff for what's coming down thepipeline.
But this episode I did I got isabout coming to prison when
you're young and of course, youknow you got to hold your own
right.
I mean, there are some peoplein there that are predators
against the younger andexperienced guys, but at the
(40:03):
same time you got to findmentors in prison.
You know, like I really hold onto a few memories, man, where,
like when I first started goingbald, you know I was, let me see
, I was 22,.
You know something like that Iwas old, I was old, and my dude
(40:24):
pointed it out in a meeting.
He was coming in through theroad behind me like hey, man,
you're going to light up top,I'm like get the fuck away from
me, man.
But once it really startedgetting bad, though, man, it was
this dude named Mike Mike, andMike Mike taught me how to shave
my head.
You know, that's a lot of trustto give another dude in prison,
man.
You know, and you know it's afew other.
(40:47):
You know, frank Nitty, you know, shout out to all these dudes.
Frank Nitty, man they sent menow, taught me how to, how to
use a needle and thread and do,made some of the flyer shit I've
ever seen, not just in prison,not just in prison Dude man.
He made a dude a whole damnsuit with a hat, a dress shirt
and everything you know, andthey could arrive with anything
(41:09):
you get off the shelf out here.
But you know, these are guys.
When I was young, when I was 18, 19, I was doing time with him
in Toledo and stuff.
You know, mike Mike, frankNitty, we was all doing time in
Toledo and these dudes pulled measide and started giving me
gang.
But you can't just trustanybody.
So, anyway, that's anotherepisode that I wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Okay, no problem.
So, again I say what's that Goahead.
No, I was just saying that.
I'm just sitting there thinkingabout that, that how there's so
many people in here that theydon't even know how to live
their life and we have thisexpectation on them that they
should.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Right I mean.
So that's one of the issues ofyou know why we hear, why we
doing this podcast in firstplace and why we doing
mentorship both inside andoutside prison is because
everybody say, just clean upyour life, just live right.
Because they have theexpectation that we know what
that is and how to do it.
(42:12):
But I mean not everybody can doit.
I mean not everybody came froma good household, not everybody
had good examples and chose thebad one.
You know, I mean shit.
When you live in the street soyou grew up in prison, it's like
telling me to live right.
It's like this is all I know.
I know it's us against them.
You know, I know that.
(42:33):
You know I don't let nobody getmy space, I don't let it bite,
put me, I don't let nobody.
So when you say, do somethingdifferent, you like like what?
Because only the different Iknow is what I seen on the Cosby
show.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, but, but.
But you know.
You know it's also a tragedy.
People are so quick to tell youwhat you should do.
Very few are willing to takethe time to invest and show you
how to do it.
There's so many individuals thathave had people come into their
lives and they give them theglimmer that they are worth
(43:09):
something.
They could be something morethan what they chose.
And as soon as they come intolife and they really start to
believe it, those people aregone.
Yeah, and most of us that comeinto prison have had some form
of rejection or abandonment atsome point in our lives from
(43:30):
someone that we trusted andthought cared about us.
Now imagine when you start tobelieve and someone take that
away from you by them leaving,or someone make you believe that
all the stuff that you've beendoing your entire life was
unfairly done to you.
But you can rise above that andbe something better.
And then you start grasping onto it and then it's taken away
(43:54):
from you.
That's why mentorship is soimportant, because a mentor says
not only do I believe insomething in you worth investing
in, I'm going to invest my life, currency, which is our time,
into you.
Until you reach it, I'm notgoing to do work for you, but I
will support you and guide youto the best of my ability until
(44:16):
you're able to walk on your ownand give it to someone else.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, they're going to stay there with you and see
it through, but not any of themhave that mentor.
Yeah, I mean, you know how Ifeel about mentorship, man,
that's where it's at.
Yeah, that's where it's at.
I was a mentor and I need tobenefit of it.
It's not anything like you canget out of a book.
It's not anything that you canget off of a TV or a college
(44:43):
class or anything like thatMentorship man.
When you got somebody that youcan report back to what your
results after they showed you,they didn't tell you.
They showed you, let you go outthere and do it and then you
can report back and they can sitthere and guide you right there
in person.
Man, they stick around untilit's done.
(45:04):
That's the thing, is thepresence.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
And another thing that mentors do is they're able
to decipher information that youcan't do on your own.
One of the things that I alwayshad was I was always quick to
judge what I did.
I do something about it.
Man, I did something bad andI'm not stupid man, I'm not
gonna mess that up.
And my mentor said you can't dogood or bad right now because
(45:30):
you're just learning.
He said, whatever you do everytime you stumble, what did you
learn from it?
And he was always.
I mean, he had to keep drillingthat into my head because every
time I messed up, I was quickto criticize myself and judge
myself because of it.
And he had to get me out ofthat mentality of learn from
what you're doing, stop judgingyourself because of it.
(45:51):
And now, when I do things, Ithought, okay, what did I learn
from it?
Be better, do better.
That's one of the things that Iliked about NA, because I go to
NA all the time.
One of the things I like aboutthat is they teach you one day
at a time.
Looking at forever is just toobig of a price, but I can look
(46:11):
at it right now and, if I messup today, find out why that
wasn't messed up.
What was my trigger?
What caused me to relapse?
Because relapsing happened atthat moment.
It happened a long time ago.
Find that out, talk to someoneabout it and then get back on
the mission of recovery.
And this constant recycling of24 hours is easier for me to
(46:31):
handle.
But someone had to teach thatto me and they had to walk with
me, do it, and they had to stickwith me.
And when I was, when I was hadthese messed-up ways of thinking
and I wanted to beat myself up,they said don't be as hard on
yourself.
Start looking at yourself withkinder eyes.
Learn how to love yourself.
Learn how to forgive yourself.
I didn't know how to do that.
They sound like great things todo and I'm like, wow, who
(46:51):
wouldn't want to do that?
But how to do it I had no idea.
And to someone, show me andthey, they was patient enough to
give me every example that theypossibly could to help me get
it to where I.
All these things would become anatural part of who I am and I
could flush out some of thattoxic way of thinking.
It came from my bad trauma andall these other negative
(47:12):
experiences in my life.
Mentorship is crucial foranyone anyone but there's not a
lot of mentors out there.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
You're right.
You're right, man, it's not.
But you know what there wouldbe, I think, if there were more
people who sought mentorship.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
You think?
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean dude.
One thing that I've learned isthat it's it's always somebody
trying to tell you about theirexperience, like if you go ask,
like I just actually I just raninto a dude today.
I promise you it was my lastload of the day.
I was at work and I'm walkingout of the store and I see this
(47:58):
dude, he's got a Hennessy TRX,so it's a Dodge pickup truck,
but it's like on steroids, right, it's probably about a hundred
and fifty thousand dollar truck.
So I'm walking out you know,I'm really in the cars and shit
and I walk out and I see it.
I'm like whoa, like stop me inmy tracks.
And I'm like bro, like what'sup with this truck?
(48:20):
He's like, oh yeah, you know,he's on Nautilant and I'm like
man, how much this thing costs.
He's a little pretty penny.
He kind of like being big.
I'm like that's probably likelike a hundred and thirty,
hundred and forty.
So he's like, oh yeah, actually, yeah, you know.
So then we, he pumping gas.
I'm like, so what'd he getabout?
Like what, like 12 miles gallon.
(48:40):
He like, yeah, actually getabout 10 to 12 gallons.
I'm like man, so we just gotgoing in about this truck and
I'm like, if you don't mind me,asking like what do you do?
And he was like like he stoppedpumping his gas and turned and
had like a 10 minuteconversation with me.
You know like there's people outthere like, even if we're not
(49:02):
talking about mentorship, howmuch you know Like people just
like talking about themselves.
If you got a person talk, theykeep talking and talking.
All you got to do is ask theright questions.
And if you say, hey man, I lovewhat you did here and I really
want to do something similarLike would you mentor me?
It would blow their fuckingmind, cause nobody ever asked
(49:26):
that question Like yo.
Would you kind of show me howto do this?
Help me get my foot in the door?
And then like hell yeah, I raninto on the job.
I ran into people like this allthe time.
One dude asked me like yo, youwork here.
Like I want to figure out howto get in.
So I'm like all right, give meyour number, I pass it on to my
(49:50):
boss.
I start asking questions.
Dude hit me up.
I'm like yo, this is what I got.
And so he started telling meabout what he do.
I'm like, hey, actually, hey,man, I try to help you on this
side, if you can help me on thisside.
He was like bet, hell yeah, youknow Right.
So I mean cause he like man, Ilive in Columbus and I got a
whole fleet of trucks that'sdown in like Cincinnati area and
(50:12):
stuff.
So I'm trying to figure out howto get in where y'all at so I
can have a little local Columbusthing.
So I'm like damn, like all yougot to do is ask, but nobody
asked.
We got too much pride to ask.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
Yeah, but they'll say close mouth, don't get fed.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Man, and it's really rare that somebody's going to go
and put in all their time andeffort before they know how it's
going to be received.
You know.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
You know the interesting thing about that?
The guy who mentored me.
One of the things that he said,because I asked him like why
did you decide to mentor me?
This is 1,100 men in thisprison.
Why, why me?
And he told me.
He said you came askingquestions and he said when a
(50:58):
person come and asks mequestions, they're thirsty to
know, they're trying to figuresome things out, they're trying
to find out and they just don'tknow how.
So they start asking questions.
He said the people who just saythey want to be taught are
thieves, because they just wantto know enough to be slicker.
He said but you always comewith a question.
He said everything.
He said I have to be walking onthe yard and you were calling
to me.
Hey, I got a question for you.
(51:19):
And he said your questionsbecame so frequent that I was
like, ok, I'm going to give hima shot.
He said but if you didn't comeasking me questions, he said I
would just walk by you, like I'dalways speak to you, but I
wouldn't, I wouldn't havestopped.
And so, yeah, I think you areright.
People have to ask questions,they have to pursue.
(51:42):
Desire is shown by pursuit thethings that you desire the most
is the things that you're goingto pursue the hardest.
I don't care what that is, andso, yeah, I definitely agree.
If more people would set theirpride aside, set their ego aside
and say I need help and youlook like you're doing exactly
(52:04):
what I want to do, can you helpme?
I do believe more people wouldstep up to the plate.
But again, that's something thatwe need to learn how to do,
like if the cyclists keep comingright back around to people
think that simply because we'regrown, I had to learn that I
didn't even know how to make achoice.
Isn't that crazy?
(52:26):
I won't lie you made a choiceto come to prison.
I said why do you think I madea choice to come to prison?
Well, you knew what you weredoing and you knew what could
happen.
I said do you really think Iwas thinking about coming to
prison or not?
I committed my crime.
You think I was really on mymind like you know what.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
I'm going to go ahead and take this.
Yeah, let's see what that'slike.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
That's not the first thing, for my mind.
The first thing I was thinkingabout I'm going to do this and I
ain't going to get caught.
I thought I was triggered inthat.
So I learned that there werefive steps.
A person had to make a goodchoice, a mature choice, and I
didn't do any of them.
But that's something that hadto be taught to me and something
I had to learn.
(53:08):
And there's so many of us thatare doing things.
And then, when the consequenceshit us in the face and I'm not
just talking about people inprison, I'm talking about just
people in life we do so manythings that seem right at the
moment and it's based off of theemotion that we're having or
feeling or desire or want thatwhen we're dealing with the
consequences now, we're livingwith regret and, oh, I wish I
(53:30):
would have known better, andit's something that no one has
ever said.
It's like look, these are theways that you make a choice,
these are the steps that youneed to take.
At first they're gonna be hardbecause you're not gonna
remember them in real time, butthe more you practice them,
they'll just become secondnature.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
You know, I don't know if I ever said this on a
podcast, but one of the thingsthat got me into mentoring
people was actually when I camehome and I had a couple of
mentors.
You know, I had about threementors when I first came home
in different areas, and thefirst thing I started trying to
do is pass the game on to otherpeople.
(54:13):
I knew it was in my situationand you'd be surprised how many
people were like I don't give afuck, they're in this bad
situation with me and they saythey want relief.
But I'm like yo, look, andthey're like stop acting like.
You're better than me, you know.
And I actually, when I startedgetting money for real in this
(54:35):
trucking, I actually offered topay for like six or seven guys
to go to trucking school, andthat's like $5,000 a piece,
right, without any obligation.
I came like yo, I paid for this, you don't gotta pay me back,
just out of love and I want tosee you have opportunities that
(54:58):
I got.
I was like yo, I do this.
I never paid for anybody to goto trucking school to this day,
not because I wasn't gonnafollow through, but because they
was like oh hell, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
And then I check in, like hey,yo, you go down there to the B
and V and get that book.
Oh dog man, I'm serious.
(55:20):
And so, after I kept making thisoffer because then I started
making other offers, like youknow, investing together and all
this other stuff I got thiscall one day.
I was out on the road and I gota call from a dude that I ain't
talked to in like 15 years andI'm like yo, what's up?
He like hey, man, I was justtalking to so and so and they
(55:41):
was saying how you was gettingit on the truck inside and stuff
, and blah, blah, blah.
He was like yo, I done went outthere and you know I got the
book, I got my tips, you know Igot this, and that he's like hey
, you think I could ride in thetruck with you and stuff, just
so I can see what it's like onthe road.
It blew my mind.
I was like wait first off, whatthe fuck was dude telling you,
(56:04):
cause he ain't even done theshit how you go out and do all
damn steps.
Right, you know?
And that's the differencebetween people who get offered
something that they not readyfor and people who, like man, I
want to do this.
Let me figure out somebody whodoing it that can help me do it
to minimize my chances offailure.
(56:26):
Because that's the thing aboutmentorship is you doing it with
somebody who didn't already didit?
Right, we ain't got to gothrough here asking random blank
questions and you know, let mesee if I can try it.
And you know like no, you gotsomebody at hand that did that
shit and they're going to belike yeah, come here, come
(56:47):
closer, let me show you thewhole path, let me give you the
game.
No, no, no, once, this is whatyou got to do, you do that.
Come back to me.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
And I think that's a critical thing that you just
said.
You just said someone who'sready, because everyone's not
ready.
Like I said, there was a lot ofindividuals, especially when I
first got locked up, when I was18, 19, and 20, and maybe
probably about 23.
There's a lot of people thatwas telling me some good advice,
(57:20):
but I don't want to hear any ofthat.
You know, my mind was I'mgetting out of prison by any
means necessary.
So if I have to escape, I'mgoing to escape.
If I have to do bank robber,I'm going to do bank robber.
Whatever I got to do, that'swhat I'm going to do.
As they kill me in the process,so be it.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
Well see, that's.
The beautiful part, though,about mentorship is that you
don't have to be ready.
All you got to do is ask Likeif you know I'd be ready to ask.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
I wasn't.
There was nothing that anyonecould tell me at that time that
I felt was more than what I know.
It's not that you know, eventhough everything that I did
completely turned to crap.
There was nothing a personcould tell me at that time that
I didn't think I knew more about.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
But see, it's not that you're not ready to ask,
it's that you don't understandthat asking is an option.
Yeah, I mean, we grew up in aculture that's like you, man,
stand up on your own too, right?
You don't be out here askingfor no handouts.
You don't be asked and you mindyour business.
(58:22):
You know, this is the stuffthat we are taught growing up.
So we not about to go and askan old man about his business.
We not about to go up here andask some stranger for help, you
know.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah, but really there's a reason I keep hearing
around here about these youngguys is self-made, I'm self-made
.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
I'm self-made.
Speaker 3 (58:40):
There's no such thing as self-made, that kind of
thing, to that thought thatyou're talking about.
Speaker 1 (58:42):
There's no such thing as self-made.
You had somebody that supportedyou on something, gave you an
opportunity when you ain'tdeserve.
It Was like hey man, I watchyour kids while you do night
school, whatever the fuck.
It was Like yeah, you put it insome work, but you ain't.
No man is an island.
That's a quote from the Buddha.
(59:03):
No man is an island untohimself.
You have somebody that helpedyou, because really, how the
fuck you do it if nobody evereven introduced it to you?
I mean, unless you're coming upwith some new shit.
But I mean, coming from wherewe come from, it is extremely
(59:26):
rare that you have not been toldnot to stand up on your own,
not to mind your own business,not to be out here begging, not
to be you know.
So by the time we grow,especially if we was in the
streets, we were like man, Iain't about to go ask some
random dude, especially notnobody that's white or a
different race, because they arean outsider.
(59:46):
But really, in all actualities,if you're not ready, just come
up like, hey man, I'm interestedin that.
Like, can you tell me about it?
And when you realize that askingthe question is an option, what
does it take for somebody toget involved in something like
(01:00:07):
that, you know, and then letthem, you know, or even ask
further.
Just be like hey, man, if youcan get X, y and Z and come
holler at me when you get that,you know, when you get some of
these prerequisites under yourbelt, come holler at me and I'll
see what I can do, becausereally that's the test.
(01:00:28):
That's to see if you want it.
And, like I said, it's a lot oftimes where it's so many people
out here who can't wait to passit on.
I mean, think about how manypeople that got their own
business and they want to leaveit to their kids.
But their kids don't give afuck about it, they can.
(01:00:49):
All they want is somebodythat's going to come and care
like they care, and they justgive them the whole game.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
So you think about someone like you, who made it
when everyone thought that youcouldn't, and you're like man
this is something that'sactually possible for a lot of
other individuals.
You can't wait to tell somebodythis is possible and then show
them you can have this too.
That's also how you even comein here, coming back into the
prison and giving a positivestory, instead of all these
(01:01:20):
nightmares and horror stories.
What men need to hear.
Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
And I reached out to God and I went away.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
The first thing he said oh yeah, when you get out
you're going to be struggling.
Oh, y'all are going to struggle, so get ready for the struggle,
because you're going tostruggle and everyone's going to
tell you no, I'm just like, whywould you say something like
that?
Like, okay, we understand thatlife ain't going to be a piece
of cake, but you don't have totell us that it's already.
People that, whether theyadmitted or not, already nervous
about going out.
(01:01:50):
And then you're dumping thatextra anxiety and stress on them
, telling them about somethingthat may not even happen to them
.
Struggling is a possibility,but everyone who got to go, they
got out of prison and struggled.
They had to deal with some reallife stuff out there, but it
wasn't.
It wasn't necessarily astruggle.
And they try to tell peoplethis is what you're going to
(01:02:12):
experience.
To me, to me, that's justthat's a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I mean, to be honest, man, that's irresponsible, for
real man.
I mean it's irresponsiblebecause, basically, I already
told you how the system trainsus to aim low.
And if all you tell me about isabout how I'm going to be in
(01:02:38):
the trenches and in the mud,know that the first thing I'm
going to think about is thefirst few steps outside the
trenches.
Damn, I just want to get outthe trench, man, it's going to
be hard.
I'm going to be struggling, man, all right.
Well, what can I do to makethis struggle the least as
possible?
Fuck the struggle.
I want to get out the struggle.
(01:02:59):
Show me how to get past that.
Don't just tell me that that'sthere.
That's like saying somebody'sgoing.
Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
You have one minute remaining.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Somebody be like hey man, I know you got to go East
I-70 shut down.
What the fuck does that tell me?
Where is it shut down at?
How do I get around it?
How do I get to where I need togo?
Yeah, it's 70 shut down, bro,sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
You can go down there .
They can definitely get thatthat way, but I love you, man.
Definitely great conversation,as always.
Yeah, I'll be in touch with you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
All right, man.
Hey, thanks again for being apart of this man, and y'all look
forward to the next one.
Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Absolutely, absolutely Big good man.
Tell the family I love them.
Be blessed man.
Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
All right, love you, bro, be blessed.
All right, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Thank you for using GTL.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
The Lockdown to Legacy podcast is proud to be a
part of the Bussprout podcastcommunity network.
The Lockdown to Legacy isrecorded at Kohatch in their
lovely audiophile room.
Thanks for your scholarship.
Audio engineering is done byour very own Remy Jones.
You can reach us with anyfeedback, questions, comments or
share the love by emailingstories at lockdown, the number
(01:04:32):
two legacycom stories atlockdowntoolegacycom.
You can reach out there too fora free sticker, and you can
find us on Instagram and Twitterwith the handle at lockdown to
legacy and on Facebook at theLockdown to Legacy podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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