Dating Is Rigged. Here's How to Win: Mindful Dating Masterclass

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:23):
Do the sex Think fun, honest and feminist as fuck,
and always with the goal offighting the patriarchy.
One female orgasm at a time.
Welcome to the locker room.
Today's locker room and Shotstopic is Swipe Smarter, love

(00:46):
Deeper the Mindful DatingPlaybook.
I have been single for a year,as most of y'all know.
If you've been around for anytime.
I have not been dating for afull year, as I have been
working through healing andgrowing and preparing for what I
hope will be my next great love.
I don't know that I have theright strategies in place for

(01:09):
finding what I want, and it'sokay, because today I have a
guest with me that is going tohelp me on my journey, which is
going to be one of intentionallydating.
I have said on this podcastbefore and to everybody in my
life that when I date again, Iwant to do it with intention,
because one thing I do knowright now is what I want, which

(01:30):
is something I've never knownbefore and kind of what I've
been preparing for as I getready to embark on being open to
dating again.
And today my expert isliterally an expert on mindful
dating, intentional dating.
My guest is Marie Thuan.
She is the author of what isCompersion, understanding
Positive Empathy in ConsensuallyNon-Monogamous Relationships.

(01:53):
She has been featured inseveral publications and
podcasts, including Elle, theSavage Love Cast, the Times of
London and Huffington Post.
Marie has also publishedSeminal Research Studies, the
first encyclopedia entry oncompersion, and is the creator
of whatiscompersioncom, apopular website that features

(02:15):
her research, blogs andresources on the topic of
compersion.
She is the founder of LoveInsight, a mindful dating and
relationship coaching practice,where she supports and guides
people of all backgrounds andrelational orientations to
create intentional and vibrantlove lives.
And I do want to point outthough she has a thorough

(02:37):
background in compersion andnon-monogamy.
We will be talking today aboutdating generally for people who
are looking for all sorts ofrelationship styles, monogamy
included.
Marie, will you tell mylisteners a little bit more
about you?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Thank you, annette, for having me back on the
podcast.
I'm so excited to be here andthank you for that last thing.
You said that intentionaldating and mindful dating really
includes everyone, from peoplewho want monogamy to people who
don't.
It's really all good.
It's about self-knowledge.
So a little bit more about me.

(03:16):
I am a mindful dating andrelationship coach.
I'm originally from Quebec,canada, and I've lived in
California for about 21 yearsnow, so more than half of my
life and I love it.
I love the spirit of innovationand just novel intentional
thinking that I find inabundance here, and I am

(03:40):
passionate about relationships.
I've always felt that there'san elephant in the room in our
society and that is the ideathat everyone is told they
should want the same thing andhave this perfect Disney story
of love over the course of theirlife and that should fall in

(04:03):
their lap, of their life andthat should fall in their lap,
and that's just not the case.
You know, we all have a verycomplex journey in our intimate
lives and I think the more wehonor that journey, the more we
are present to ourselves and toour growth within that journey,
then the happier we can be, nomatter what the external outcome
, no matter what that looks likebe, no matter what the external

(04:25):
outcome, no matter what thatlooks like.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yes, and I'm excited to talk about that, I'm excited
to learn from you.
So, listeners, your motivationto stay to the end is that by
the end, we will have a strategy, you and I, you and I, listener
, we're going to have a strategy, I'm going to have one, you're
going to have one as we embarkon our dating journey together,

(04:46):
because I'm sure there's some ofyou out there that are right
here with me and, of course,we'll have more resources for
you, so that you don't go intodating just like fumbling around
.
You don't mess with otherpeople's feelings, you don't
mess with your own feelings, andI mean that's what we want,
right?
We don't want to do any damage.
We want to find love.
That's what we want, right?
We don't want to do any damage,we want to find love.
That's what we want to do.

(05:07):
So I'm ready to learn, marie,I'm so excited about this.
So, cheers, let's talk aboutfinding love intentionally,
mindfully, cheers.
I want to just jump in with howdoes your concept of mindful
dating differ from what would betraditional dating strategies?

(05:31):
Not that I, I don't know isthere a traditional dating
strategy.
It seems sort of like we're alljust throwing ourselves at each
other out there.
But how is mindful datingunique ourselves at each other
out there?
But how?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
how is mindful dating unique?
Well, most dating advice outthere focuses on trying to
manipulate other people intoliking us.
So we're externally focused,we're focused on the other.

(06:11):
And how can we get into theirminds to get them to choose us?
And it positions us in a waylike in a mindset of
self-rejection, of saying like,well, just me being me is
probably not going to be goodenough, so I need to figure out
how to convince someone elsethat they should desire me as a
partner, someone else that theyshould desire me as a partner.
So that is problematic becauseit creates this dating persona
that is not necessarily alignedwith who we are deep down.

(06:33):
And well, if we do get into arelationship from that place,
then sooner or later who wetruly are is going to come out
and it's going to come intoconflict with the image that
maybe this other person has ofus and we are not going to feel
whole.
So my dating strategy that Icoined mindful dating is the

(06:58):
idea that instead ofself-abandoning in our dating
process, we need to self-reclaimand self-honor, and that is not
as simple as just saying like,oh, just be spontaneous, just be
yourself, and everything isgoing to be fine because we are
so trained to try to be somebodyelse and it's not that simple

(07:20):
sometimes to just be ourauthentic self.
So it's a journey, the processof uncovering who we truly are.
And, you know, the process ofdating with an open heart and
with true authenticity can behealing, it can be empowering
and, of course, it can and oftenis challenging because it

(07:43):
forces us to express ourselveswith our true selves.
So that's my philosophy, but Ithink it's so worth investing in
investing the time and theenergy in that philosophy
because it leaves us feelingmore connected to ourselves,
with our integrity.
And when we do connect withpeople and maybe we enter a

(08:05):
relationship with someone new,then we're not abandoning part
of ourselves, we're doing it ina space of wholeness, and then
that connection can be trulyauthentic and truly rooted in
truth rather than in a storythat's not ours.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
I love that you brought up the self-abandonment
piece in order to date right,could you speak to what that can
look like so that maybe someonewho's hearing it but they're
thinking what does it mean toself-abandon?
Because I think it happens insubtle ways oftentimes in dating

(08:45):
, like we don't even know we'redoing it and then suddenly we've
managed to get into arelationship and we're wondering
why there is so much conflictand why we're feeling smaller
and like we've lost somethingcore to ourselves.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
So there's so many examples that I could give.
In dating, you know, I see somany people trying to feature
themselves, whether it's on adating app or in real life when
they're meeting somebody in agenerically pleasing version of
themselves.
So, for example, I had a clientwho was a wonderful gay man, he

(09:29):
was an accountant and he was aspiritualist.
He was someone who lovedmeditating, who was on a
lifelong spiritual path, andwhen I looked at his profile for
the first time, all heemphasized about himself was
that he is a very stable person.
You know he's got a solidcareer.
He's this just like reallysolid partner choice.

(09:54):
But there was nothing about youknow his other interests, like
you know his interest inspirituality, or nothing really
about how funny he was.
He was a very hilarious person,still is, and you know like
there was this impulse in him toself-abandon, in a way where he
would pick and choose the partsof himself that he thought

(10:18):
everyone would like, and when Iasked him why, he said well,
I've been rejected by my familyand by some co-workers before
for being really interested inspirituality, so I'm afraid I'm
going to get rejected again bypeople on the dating app.
So that's a great example ofself-abandonment is showing up

(10:40):
with only part of ourselves thatwe think other people are going
to like, but then deprivingourselves and them from the full
version, and really likedepriving ourselves from
magnetizing somebody who wouldlove us as we are.
So it takes courage, you know,when we have been rejected or

(11:03):
something like that, it takescourage to go out and say like,
yes, that's who I am, I canhonor that, I can accept that
and reclaim that in me.
And okay, some people are notgoing to like that and they're
going to move on.
They're going to swipe left,they're going to say no to me
and that is okay.
I don't need everyone to chooseme.
I need one person or maybe youknow more than one if you're non

(11:28):
monogamous, but you're there toconnect with someone who is
going to want to honor the fullyou.
So I could give you so manymore examples of self
abandonment, but that, I think,kind of encapsulates it.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that captures it.
I think there are especiallyfor women in our culture.
One way that we oftenself-abandon is by making our
personalities smaller our voicesofter In my case.
Obviously, being a woman who hasa platform based on sex and

(12:01):
sexuality, based on sex andsexuality, I know that for,
especially if I'm I'm alsobisexual, pansexual, but
especially cis men, that can bereally intimidating.
In my age range, my, you know,men may be more uncomfortable
with being with a woman whotalks about sex publicly and I

(12:24):
have found myself, like when Ireally like someone, like just
getting smaller or getting in myhead, like not asking, maybe,
the questions I want to on apodcast episode or saying the
thing I want to, because wouldthat upset him?
Would that lead to an argumentlater?
Would that lead to, you know,an argument later?
Would that?
lead to you know ruffledfeathers or just you know I

(12:53):
could feel the spiciness, thebad spiciness, after you know
something like that.
But the reality is then otherthings suffer, right, when you
self abandon, your careersuffers, your you know
relationship with friends,suffer, your relationship with
yourself, your you knowrelationship with friends, your
relationship with yourself.
So it seems to me like animportant part of your strategy
is also knowing yourself right,because I think there are times

(13:14):
that I've self abandoned in waysthat I didn't even realize,
because I didn't know myselfwell enough to know that I was
self abandoning.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, yeah Right.
And that process of knowingourselves, it's that process of
self-discovering ourselves, Likeit's not a stagnant thing, you
don't just do it once and it'sover.
I think it's a lifelongcommitment to always being
curious about ourselves, justlike we would be in a
relationship with a partner.
I think it's important toalways maintain that curiosity

(13:46):
and not assume that we just knowsomebody else and that's all
they're going to be.
We can apply that samecuriosity and intrigue about our
relationships with ourselves.
Like who am I becoming?
It's maybe a better questionthan who am I?
I think I mean both of thesequestions are good, but who am I

(14:06):
today?
And never giving up on askingthat question, Because that kind
of curiosity and fluidity inour self concept can also ensure
that we're going to have veryalive relationships that are not
stagnant.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
How does one know when they're ready to date?
This has been a big questionfor me.
It isn't until like veryrecently that I've been like, I
think.
I think I'm ready to at leastbe open to the possibility of
like.
If I stumble into someone inthe wild and it's like sexy

(14:48):
vibes, am I going to be open toreceiving that, exchanging that
and exploring it?
And I mean, this has been aquestion that's been popping up
for months for me.
Am I ready?
And then I'm like, fuck, no,and then I've been.
You know, the other thing is I,over this past year, I've
really developed a deepsatisfaction in my life without

(15:09):
a relationship.
I have a thriving career thathas all of these possibilities.
I've got this amazing communityof friends I'm feeling really
I've got.
My health is in the best place.
I'm feeling really good aboutmyself is in the best place.
I'm feeling really good aboutmyself Also my libido is on fire
, so it's kind of like my, Ithink.
sometimes my libido is like hey,maybe dating is a good idea for

(15:30):
me, but but it is a question ifI'm going to date mindfully and
intentionally, I want to gointo it with the.
I'm actually ready for this.
So what are some indicatorswhen someone's really ready to
to and should be in the datingpool, and what are some

(15:50):
indicators for people that arelike you aren't ready to date?
Don't go fuck up someone else'slife, please.
Just saying some people do that.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Right?
Well, one of the mainindicators, I think, is do I
want to be dating from a placeof should or from a place of I
really want to?
Because one of the biggestissues that I encounter in my
coaching practice is people whocome to me and they're like I
feel like I should have arelationship, I should be

(16:22):
married, I should have childrenor I should be dating.
And when I interrogate that,it's like the should actually
comes from external voices,external sources of authority.
Maybe their family members wantthem to be married and have
children and maybe they'veinherited the script from
society, but there's a big noinside of themselves the script

(16:48):
from society, but there's a bigno inside of themselves.
They're not totally listeningto that no.
So it becomes very confusing.
Like they might be dating butthey don't really really want to
be in a relationship.
So I think that's important toreally be discerning.
Like is there a part of youthat does not want to date, that
does not want a relationship?
And what is that part saying?
Like, why?

(17:08):
Is it because you're afraid tolose your freedom and
independence?
Is it because you're afraid tobe heartbroken again?
Is it because you're afraidthat it's going to bring up some
really undesirable parts of youor old patterns that you've

(17:28):
experienced before and you don'tknow that you have the strength
and the self-centeredness tonot fall into when you get into
your next.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Can I just start answering some of these, because
I think that this is animportant because I think these
are things that a lot of peoplethink.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
And.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
I'm so I think the reason why I desire to find
someone is I.
There are times like A intimacyand I love I do really love
having a person that's like youknow, that I share everything
with, like I like that I love adeep, deep connection.

(18:08):
I love someone I can have reallyamazing, regular exploratory
sex with.
However, obviously I've notdone that successfully in the
past and, and to my detriment, Ihaven't wanted to date, because
I mean number one.
I really don't want to gothrough the excruciating pain of

(18:28):
a breakup of loss that I haveexperienced, like I'm like dude,
not interested in experiencing,and I do actually more than I
think ever in my past before.
I have a lot of fear aroundre-experiencing that level of
pain and loss.
I also feel like I'veestablished this really great

(18:51):
relationship with myself.
I do feel like I really knowwhat I want in a partner.
But I think you came to thatquestion of and I hear this from
so many people, I hear thisfrom so many people like, what
if I fall into old patterns?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
What if?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
all this resilience I've worked to build, what if
the skills of discernment Ithink that I have fail me?
And then I find myself back,reduced to who I felt I was,
when I had self betrayed and allof that and self abandoned, so

(19:29):
what do you do with that?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
That's such a good question and honestly, like, my
first thought on that is a bitof a shameless plug.
You know, for me or people likeme, as coaches you know dating
coaches or therapists I thinkpart of our job with clients who
are on a dating journey is tohelp be a mirror for that and

(19:55):
help reflect and helpinterrogate Okay, are you
falling into an old pattern andwhat does that look like?
And how do you create a newpattern?
If we've already establishedlike okay, I don't want to
self-abandon, I want to show upwith the fullest version of me,
I want to communicate from aplace of authenticity and

(20:16):
courage, then reallyarticulating what that looks
like in practice as you'redating, and having a support
system around you to hold youaccountable to that and not just
let you go down the same oldroad without any reflection, can
be really life-changing.

(20:37):
It can make the difference fromgoing down the same old road,
maybe for the next 10 years ofyour life, or actually, you know
, nipping it in the bud ortaking a new direction, a
different direction and showingup in a whole different way, and
that's how we grow.
I think that's why, to me, like, dating is so powerful, because

(21:00):
it's this alchemy of growth,it's this opportunity to show up
in different ways and kind ofrewire our brain and our
patterns in real time.
So even if someone or you youknow, are afraid to go down the
same road, into the same oldpattern, I would encourage you

(21:21):
to maybe not stop things youknow like, depending on other
factors of course, but if youcan go into it with a really
strong mindset and a reallystrong commitment to not
repeating the same story butactually like having a clear
vision and that's part of themindful dating framework that I
teach is having a clear visionof how you want to show up in

(21:44):
this next relationship can be sotransformative.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
I love that you bring up having whether you get a
coach or a therapist or having asupport network of friends.
I'm very fortunate to have acouple of people very close to
me that do mirror Like when Istart to.
I've had a couple ofinteractions, one kind of
beginning dating situation,where I was really able to sit

(22:09):
with my friends and they wereable to be that mirror and say,
hey, these behaviors are suspectin that, like that looks a
little familiar and somethingthat was interesting in that I
dipped my toe in the water of itand what meaning I tried it out

(22:29):
anyways.
Meaning I tried it out anyways.
And what also was a little, Ihad a little euphoria because
when I started to see behaviorsbecause I'm obviously we all
know we're drawn to some of ourtrauma- from the past because
it's comfortable.
But this time, when I started tosee behaviors from the

(23:07):
individual that I wasinteracting with that reflected
sort of things.
I my my old many times.
I'm going to get out my like,you know, whatever the machete,
and I'm going to start justcutting and it's harder, right,
because it's a harder thing totake a different path and say,
oh, you know what?
Actually, this is familiar, I'mnot doing it, I know where it
leads.
I'm going to cut this path, andit felt really good to make a

(23:30):
different choice and also tofind that things that used to be
sort of my um would addict meto someone had become my new ick
.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
I'm like beautiful Right, oh my gosh.
That is progress, that ischange.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
I literally called up a friend.
I'm like, oh my God, what usedto be my heroine in a in a
relationship would draw me in.
It's my new ick Like.
I was like, oh, and it was sowonderful because I had this
moment of like, wow, I reallyhave been.
I'm not just bullshittingmyself.
I have been doing work thisyear and I'm getting somewhere

(24:06):
which makes me think that, yeah,I mean, I'm not in the mood to
like aggressively try to findsomeone.
I don't feel that need.
But I am, I do want to be open.
I do want to like be open tomeeting people and to the
possibility.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I'm open to going on dates, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
so once a person has identified that they're ready
enough I don't know if there'sever a completely ready, but you
know, like I'm like, all right,probably over the next year, I
what are some things I can do toto prepare with intention for

(24:56):
dating rather than just flip?
At this point I don't plan ongoing on apps, but I know a lot
of people are.
So what are some things you canput in place to like embark on
the journey and do it mindfullyand intentionally?

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Well, I'll speak generally, generally and then we
can speak more specificallyabout dating.
On apps, because I have a wholesystem for that too, yeah, but
more generally, for mindfuldating, I always get people
started with a clear vision, theidea of really being clear
about who you are, what you wantin relationships.

(25:33):
Are you there to just empoweryourself by dating a lot of
people and you're not reallywanting a committed relationship
or a traditional relationship.
Are you really wanting thatnext level, like I want someone
to engage with at a deep level,I want to find my person, et
cetera.

(25:53):
Like, what are you actuallycraving?
And that process is often thedisentanglement of what you've
been taught to want, thatconditioning and what your heart
really wants.
And that is a really beautifulprocess to get clear on that.
And also, you know what areyour deal breakers, what are
your must haves, all of thatstuff.

(26:15):
So that is foundational workand the next step is also I mean
, it's within that but the ideaof having an empowered
self-concept and knowing yourvalue, knowing what you bring to
the table, wanting to shareyour gifts and your qualities

(26:36):
with others.
So oftentimes I ask my clientsto write a list of what they
feel like they would bring to arelationship, like what are
their gifts and qualities.
And that can be an interesting,sometimes challenging exercise
for people, because they're sotrained to think in terms of
what can I get from this otherperson, rather than what do I

(26:57):
bring, what do I want to share?
And sometimes the problem ismore like oh, I'm not trained to
even value myself and recognizethat I have a lot to share.
So that process of reallyself-honoring and having an
empowered self-concept isfoundational to going out there
with a sense of your own valueand a desire to share.

(27:19):
Right, yeah.
And then we get into strategy.
And that means okay, like whatfeels aligned in terms of
actions.
Do I want to be on the apps ornot, and why?
Like, how do I feel when I goon the apps and can I, you know,
can I go on them in a way thatfeels aligned, or is it just not

(27:43):
going to work for me?
And are there other ways that Ican meet new people?
Are there activities and socialclubs or, you know, like
hobbies that I can take?
That will not feel like a wasteof time if I don't meet
somebody to date there, but theyfeel like nourishing to my soul
, but they also allow me to meetnew people.

(28:05):
And can I show up with thatopenness and that banter and
that ability to make newconnections?
And what does it take for me toshow up with that openness and
that banter and that ability tomake new connections?
And what does it take for me toshow up with that skill that
you know like?
In a way it's a skill set, likewalking up to people and
starting a conversation andcreating authentic connection.
So that is is the strategypillar of my mindful dating

(28:34):
framework.
And then we move intocommunication skills, like how
do I communicate truthfully, howdo I own my no and my yes and
really be able to create thoseconnections from a place of
truth?
And then, finally, I mean thelast pillar is managing emotions

(28:59):
and framing the wholeexperience as a growth and
educational experience, becausewe can't avoid negative feelings
, we can't avoid feelingrejected, feeling discouraged,
negative feelings.
We can't avoid feeling rejected, feeling discouraged, doubting
ourselves, all of these emotionsthat we experience.
We can't have a strategy that'sgoing to eliminate those.

(29:21):
We can't be inoculated, becauseif we try to inoculate
ourselves against challengingemotions, we might just numb
ourselves out to the positiveones too.
But how do we frame them whenthey come up?
Do we have the centeredness andthe mindfulness to always bring
it back to like oh, here is aprocess of self-discovery to who

(29:42):
I am.
And if I feel rejected, does itmean I then need to
self-abandon a little more tomake sure that the next person
will choose me?
Or can I frame that as okay,that was not my person and great
, now I have more spaciousnessto meet somebody else who might
have a better connection with me.

(30:03):
So just reframing those scriptsas we go.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah, I would say your relationship with rejection
is going to really affectstrongly affect how you date.
Right, like if rejection issuper difficult for you and
painful and you like take it asmeaning something, like you take

(30:31):
someone's rejection as meaningsomething about you, yeah,
that's gonna make dating.
I would say this is the oneplace I feel like I really excel
, like, yeah, I don't like inthe dating realm of just like
we've gone on a date, maybe two,and I can tell it's not going
forward.
Like I don't, I don't ever readthat as something about me and

(30:55):
I think that's hard for peopleyou know.
Like how can rejection meananything about you from someone
who doesn't even know you?
Maybe, whatever it is, thepheromones were off, or you know
they're really into blondes andI'm not a blonde, or you know,
or I've got too many tattooslike it could be anything, but
I'd like to go through thesepillars a little bit, if we can,

(31:17):
because I think each oneof them is important starting
with.
So a lot of people are on theapps and maybe we can talk.
I'm choosing not to, but we cantalk about that later.
Can we start with sort of ifsomeone's like I don't know how
else I'm going to meet peopleI'm not really into clubs or you
know what I mean this is goingto be the easiest way for me to

(31:39):
connect with people.
What are some strategies theycan put in place to keep
updating mindful, which I thinkcan be really hard, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, yeah, I love that topic, I'm very passionate
about it and I actually justrecorded a class called Humanize
Online Dating with MindfulSwiping, and that is a thorough
explanation of my four pillarsof mindful swiping, which I will
go into now.

(32:09):
But if people are interested inthe full on 90 minute class
it's only 27 bucks on my websitethey can go and get it.
So the first pillar of mindfulswiping that I always recommend
to everyone is to ritualize youruse of the apps, and that means
don't just mindlessly go swipewhile you're bored at the

(32:33):
grocery store line or, you know,like before bed or just like
when you feel angry or rejected,like.
Use the apps in a verymethodical way.
I recommend 15 or 20 minutes aday.
Maybe it can be on the same,you know, same time frame every
day.
It could be like okay, it'snine o'clock, I'm going to sit

(32:54):
down and you're going to createa beautiful space for your use
of the apps.
You're going to sit down in aspot that feels comfortable to
you and maybe you can light acandle and reconnect with your
intentions.
That is super important becauseif we're swiping impulsively,

(33:15):
then the results might not be asmindful and aligned as we would
like them to be, but the morewe're stoked into our intentions
when we're swiping, then theresults will change.
They will be better.
So that's one Ritualize youruse of the apps, which also
includes like turning off asmany notifications as possible,

(33:37):
because that to me, just it'slike social media.
You know it pulls on yourattention and it takes you away
from yourself.
It kind of creates an externallocus of authority in your life
and your brain instead ofletting you focus on that
internal authority, like youhave to create your own GPS.

(33:58):
So that's one.
The ritual aspect Number two iscreating an empowered dating
profile.
And going back to my example ofmy client who was
self-abandoning by only focusingon one aspect of his
personality that he thoughtwould be pleasing.
Creating an authentic profileis to actually highlight the

(34:20):
contrast about you and thecomplexity and the nuance and
showing up with more of thatauthentic, wholesome self, and
you can imagine that you'recreating a piece of art, like a
canvas.
You know you can use those appsas a way of really expressing
your fullness.

(34:40):
You know as much as possible Ofcourse there's a limited amount
of space and all of that butshowing up in a way that feels
really good and whole andauthentic to you, and that can
be a very empowering process initself, the process of writing
down like okay, what do I wantto communicate about myself to
the world?

(35:00):
How do I want to show up?
Is my profile something I canfeel like full hearted about,
rather than feeling like it's adiminished version of who I am
and I'm showing up with fear?
So that's pillar number two, andyeah, I love helping people
with their dating profile.

(35:21):
By the way, it's so fun tocreate that.
It's like a piece of art, andthe goal is self-expression.
Number three is discernment.
How do I swipe?
What do I feel Like?
How do I decide if I swipe leftor swipe right on somebody?
Like, are there old patterns atplay when maybe like oh,

(35:44):
there's a certain type that Ijust find so hot and
irresistible but I know it's notthe right person for me, but
God damn, they're so hot I needto swipe right on them.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, that would be a question of mine, like
strategies for swiping.
So my strategy when I was usingthe dating apps was you know,
obviously the first thing I dois look at the photo and if I'm
just like it's not someone I'mgoing to be physically attracted
to which also, you know, it'sproblematic in the sense that if
I'm meeting someone in the wild, maybe someone who I wouldn't

(36:19):
typically be physicallyattracted to, I start talking to
them, and that can change andit certainly has.
In my, you know, younger life,I've ended up very much into
people who I would have neverswiped right on.
But in app dating it's likekind of hard to you know, like

(36:39):
it would require reading indepth every profile, figuring
out if there might be a shred ofsomething that would make them
attractive to you.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I think it's good to slow down Because
oftentimes you know like we areso hooked on to the dopamine
aspect of swiping, like itreally works like a slot machine
.
It's like, oh, you take yourchances and if you get a match,
it's like this reward.
You know bing, bing, bing, youget that match, you know you're
liked and you get that dopaminehit.

(37:16):
So if you can train yourself toslow down, and especially with
the framing of the ritual whereyou only swipe for 15-20 minutes
a day, you're already kind ofputting a container around your
use of the apps.
Then you can ask yourself doesthis person seem kind?
What are they saying?
What's between the lines ofwhat they're saying?

(37:39):
Is there anything about thatprofile, about that person from
what they're expressing that Iwould resonate with, that I
could resonate with.
So, to be less impulsive, and Ireally like to recommend the
book Deeper Dating by Ken Page,and he creates a distinction
between attractions ofinspiration versus attractions

(38:03):
of deprivation.
And the attractions ofdeprivation are those kind of
wired attractions from ourtrauma, those kind of wired
attractions from our trauma,from our sense of lack, whether
it's like, you know, lack ofself-worth, or feeling like
there's a, you know, likedeprivation or a scarcity of

(38:23):
options out there, and we justget so intoxicated by those
attractions of deprivation, wejust get hooked.
We're like, oh, I gotta have it, I gotta have this person, I've
got to make it happen, and thatcan be very erotic as well.
Versus attractions ofinspiration, which are
attractions where, okay, maybeit's not like a big fire, but we

(38:49):
find this person inspiring.
We find that they tend to bringup the best in us.
They tend to show up withintegrity and with kindness and
with respect, and it's not likewe can't imagine kissing them.
I think it's important to havea level of physical attraction
that's there.

(39:09):
But to be able to distinguishbetween those two kinds of
attractions, I think, is at thecore of the idea of discernment.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
I do think there can be the scarcity mindset when it
comes to dating and attractionand like how many, how many
people are out there that arereally available and you know,
you see one that presents wellon their profile and like I've
got to get their attentionbecause maybe they're especially
when you get into.
You know you see one thatpresents well on their profile
and like I've got to get theirattention because maybe they're

(39:40):
especially when you get into.
You know, I think late 30s and40s and up.
Yeah, you know, there isdefinitely this like feeling of
limited time, limited resourcesout.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Right, right, right right.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
And I know it's hard, but it's so important not to
get into that scarcity mindsetand just like saying yes when
you don't mean yes because youdon't think you have options so
well times, and I would I wouldsay another thing that I think
happens, and and I would loveyour thoughts on this, is that

(40:11):
we create, we turn a person intosomething they are not, Because
it like when you're in thatscarcity mindset, when you're in
that like you're looking atsomeone and they align well
enough, but maybe they aren'thitting all the marks, but then
you in your mind kind of createthe person you want them to be
and you start holding them tothat standard when that's not at

(40:32):
all who they are.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, totally yeah.
We tend to pedestalize people,we tend to romanticize people,
we fill in the blanks in ourmind.
Sometimes we fill in the blanksin a positive way.
We want them to be all that.
Sometimes we fill in the blanksin a negative way too, like I
think it's important to observe,like, well, if someone reminds

(40:54):
me of another person whopotentially broke my heart or
was mean to me or I had a badexperience with, or just a
characteristic that I judge,like let's say, oh, I really
don't like nerds and you havethat as a core identity.
And then if you see somethingthat looks a little nerdy,
you're like, nope, this person,I know this type, I know they're

(41:16):
going to be like ABC, and youjust totally discard them
because maybe their haircutreminded you of something or you
know you filled in the blank.
But then in a negative way,like, our minds do all kinds of
things and that's why, like,mindful swiping also can be so
powerful, because it's a bigmagnifier glass to like all the

(41:37):
tricks our mind play and we getto just observe, like that's why
slowing down is so important,like taking the time to observe
what we're thinking and doingand feeling super rich and
fascinating.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, you learn a lot about yourself.
That's so funny.
That does resonate with meseeing a similar trait or hobby
or something that someone'sdoing and I'm like, no fucking
way, I'm not going to ever datesomeone who's into that again or
that, as though those interestswere the thing that made their

(42:12):
behaviors what they were.
And the behaviors and the way Iwas treated had nothing to do
with the interest, but I'vesomehow decided that everybody
who's into this thing or thisthing is problematic.
Right.
For a long time I wouldn't datemusicians, because I dated a

(42:32):
lot when I was younger.
I was like, oh, you play theguitar, forget it, you know,
bass players out.
They may still be out, but butno, then you know, in latest
scenario would be whatever.
Whatever interest it was, andthat is something I've been
thinking about lately because Ihave I have found myself doing

(42:54):
that on meet someone I'm likeand it's not fair.
It's not even logical right.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
So, right, right, I mean, it would be a little bit
like saying like, oh, I onlywant someone who has a master's
degree and up, or I only wantsomeone who is a certain height
or who makes a certain amount ofmoney.
I mean, of course, you know it'simportant to have things like
security, if that's reallyimportant to you.
But sometimes we confuse theexternal marker with an actual

(43:27):
quality that we need in arelationship, like, let's say,
the advanced degree.
You know, oh my gosh, like Iwant someone who went to a
prestigious university because Iwant someone who's smart.
Well, those two things are notnecessarily the same thing.
Like, maybe, yes, you want tobe in a relationship with
someone who's really intelligent, but I, as someone who has a

(43:50):
PhD, I can attest to the factthat not everyone who has an
advanced degree is going to becreative in their thinking or
really open-minded or, you know,intelligent in many different
ways.
You know, like, intelligence issuch a broad thing.
So it's important, in thatprocess of mindful dating, to
get down to what is it that youactually value of mindful dating

(44:15):
, to get down to what is it thatyou actually value, what is it
that you actually want, ratherthan just staying on the surface
of what you think that lookslike externally.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
All right.
So I do have things I know Iwant for the first time ever
Like.
It's very solid.
So I'd love to use my, my um,where I'm at, as an example for
people.
So something that I know islike a non-negotiable is I want
a relationship that feels secure, someone that can be a

(44:42):
co-creator in a truly securerelationship.
Need to know what they want andthen in us choosing each other,
for there to be this spacewhere I can kind of relax, enjoy
it and feel secure.

(45:03):
Now I know that right now,attachment styles are all the
rage, which can be problematicfor some coaches and therapists
because they're like everythingis an attachment style and I
know that it's not.
But there are some similarbehaviors that take place,
obviously in the avoidant.
There's the pulling back.
In the disorganized attachmentstyle there's the push pull, you
know in the anxious, there'sthe clinging and I tend towards

(45:27):
anxious, like I've been veryopen about that and I do a lot
of work around it and strategies.
But what I have said is I'mlike there's no way, like if I'm
not jumping back into anunhealed, disorganized
relationship with a disorganizedperson which I've had so many
relationship with disorganizedI'm very confused by that

(45:48):
because you get the pull whichattracts my pull.
And then, all of a sudden, I'mgetting pushed away and then I'm
getting pulled back and it'sjust torture for me.
Um, or and avoidance, like thewhole, like oh, if I'm going to,
I want someone and I want adeep.
I love the deep connection.
I like, I want to get in there,you know.
And, um, I want more of amonogamish style of a

(46:11):
relationship Like I'm notinterested in being.
I realize I don't think poly is,I don't do the best in that but
I do like a partner who's opento, like you know, some sexual
adventures and play.
So that's sort of the securitypiece is a big thing for me.
That is like a.
Really that is my biggest one.

(46:34):
How do I date mindfully forthat Right?
Like yeah, I'm an avoidant butI'm going to therapy.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
And I'm like you know , how can I, if that's so
important to me, how can I datemindfully for something like
that?
Well then, you know, I thinkyou said a key word there.
You said you wouldn't date anunhealed person.
I'll put some bold fonts theredisorganized person or, you know
, like an avoidant person, and Ithink that you know it's good
to really look at how is aperson dealing with the cards

(47:24):
that they've been dealt Like,how are they adjusting their
behaviors accordingly?
Because there's people whomight have been assessed as
avoidant but they know how tocommunicate about it.
They know to say like, oh mygosh, you know like I can feel
myself sometimes pulling back,but it's not about you and I

(47:48):
will call you back in four hours, I will be in touch then.
Or you know like they don't justdisappear on you without any
communication, like theymight've been able to operate or
function in a secure way in arelationship.
So I think there's a differencebetween you know someone who

(48:10):
has a secure attachment stylejust because they got lucky
enough to have a good childhoodwith good parents and all of
that, and someone who might nothave that as a foundational
wiring but they can operate orfunction in a secure way in
their relationships and to methat's what's most important.
You know, because there's evenlike secure people or people who

(48:30):
had an okay childhood like theymight not have the chops most
important.
You know, because there's evenlike secure people or people who
had an okay childhood like theymight not have the chops to
function, you know, in a secureway.
So you can probably discernwhat are.
You know somebody's relationshipskills from the first couple of
dates and you can talk aboutthat.

(48:53):
You know, like okay, well, yousay you're avoidant, you're
going to therapy, but what doesthat mean to you?
Like what?
How do you deal with that?
Can you know, like, how do youcreate intimacy even though you
have that label?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Right, I mean.
So is that a conversation youwould bring up on a date Like?
Because I'm pretty good atcommunicating, I know which way
I lean, I know the triggers, sowhen I feel them, I'm like and
I'll.
And the beauty of yourattachment style is it doesn't
just show up in relationships,it shows it like intimate

(49:27):
relationships, it shows up infriendships.
So you have a lot ofopportunity to practice right,
Especially with friends, and sayshe will experience that
anxious attachment and even infriendships, and so you can
build skills I can talk about myskills around my anxiousness.
What do I do to self-soothe?
What do I do when I'm like todiscern if it's me or if it's

(49:50):
something we need to discuss.
Discern if it's me or if it'ssomething we need to discuss.
But is that like?
Is that so?
Is that something in the firstdate or two that you would open
a discussion about?
Like, hey, what's yourattachment style?
How did you destroy your lastrelationship?

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Let's only bring that on date number one, maybe two,
you know, maybe two or three,like, sure, like and you don't
have to bring it up in a likeI'm interrogating you or I'm
interviewing you kind of way.
You know it can be like, oh wow, like I'm really into growth,
like here's an insight that Ihad about myself.

(50:30):
You know, like I have had thisinsight about you, know, like my
own relationship to relationalsecurity.
And you can see how they react.
Are they connecting to whatyou're saying?
Are they bringing up their ownstory?
Like you can, you can viewthose first few dates as like,
yeah, you're kind ofestablishing, are you?

(50:52):
Do you have a common language?
Like, are you able to resonateon those very important values
that you bring to this datingjourney?
Do you feel seen, do you feelreceived when you bring that up?
And it doesn't have to be like.
This is going to be like atherapy session on day two.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Let me get my notebook out and I would like
all right, let's talk about this, so let me.
Can you fill out this form,like?
Are there forms I can bring toa date?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
no, I guess that wouldn't, I will always say.
I will also say, though, thatsometimes, just the interactions
that you're having at thebeginning, the planning of the
date showing up at the beginning, the planning of the date
showing up at the date, like, isthis person showing up with a
solid presence?
Are they showing up when theysay they would?
Are they giving you that senseof like?

(51:44):
Yeah, they're connected tothemselves, they're reliable,
they're principled.
You know, like you can see somuch about somebody from the
first interactions and theplanning of the dates and how
they communicate on the date.
It doesn't have to just be aconversation about attachment
style, but you're also assessingeach other's behaviors and

(52:07):
creating discernment from that.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
All right, I love this.
So we've talked about mindfullyswiping.
Do you match?
Is there anything someoneshould think about as they start
that first texting exchange?
How do you stay mindful in thefirst sort of chat you know

(52:31):
dating app, chat exchange?
Are there things you should ask?
Do you have tips for that Likea strategy?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Well, I don't think that there are specific things
that you should ask, but I thinkyou should be mindful of your
own communication in terms ofare you self abandoning?
Are you staying centered?
Are you expressing yourselffrom your truth or are you
self-abandoning?
Are you staying centered?
Are you expressing yourselffrom your truth, or are you
falling into people pleasing ordesperation, or is it you who's

(53:03):
avoidant?
You know, like, what are youobserving about your own
behavior and communication andwhat are you sensing from the
other person?
Because even if you're doingsmall talk which I don't think
small talk is bad, you know,especially when you're first
getting to know somebody andyou're exchanging the first few
messages and maybe you'repicking up on something that

(53:25):
they wrote on their profile andit's a little small talk
conversation you can still startto assess like is this person
present?
Are they showing up inintegrity or are they showing up
with anxiety?
Are they disappearing for a fewdays?
Or you know, like you canalready read a lot between the

(53:47):
lines of a first initialexchange, a first initial
exchange.
So I think there's nothingreally like specific that you
should ask as a screeningquestion, but just the process
of getting to know them overtext and then leading to
potentially a video call or adate can tell you a lot, and I
will also say I don't recommendtexting back and forth for too

(54:12):
long before you start escalatingto a video call or a date.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
How long Do you have a thought on how much of that
should happen?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I think about a week.
You know, if you're texting alittle bit every day, then you
know.
After you know, like after afew days or a week, I think it's
time to escalate and get offthe app, get off the messaging.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, I think my opinion.
I'm going to throw it in as,like someone who just wants to
keep chatting and chatting,that's a red flag, like why
aren't?
We moving into the real world,you know.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Right, right, I mean, I think a dating app is not
really about dating.
It's about making anintroduction.
It's an introduction app and itshouldn't be too much more than
that.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Now let's move to the first date.
Yeah, what is a mindfulapproach, an intentional
approach to a first date?

Speaker 2 (55:13):
So definitely the planning of the date can be
mindful, like just being able tohave some back and forth about
what you might want to do.
I typically recommend doingsomething pretty low key, you
know like a coffee or a drink ormaybe a walk in the
neighborhood, something whereyou don't plan out a whole

(55:34):
dinner or a whole.
You know like multi hourexperience, because you might
feel trapped and maybe if youdon't resonate in the first few
minutes, like you don't want tofind yourself.
You know at a dinner and youalready know you don't want to
be there by the time theappetizer comes.
You know like you.
I think it's better to plansomething really simple and also

(55:54):
low cost so that there isn't,you know, issues around money
and who pays from the first date, and I just really recommend
bringing your authentic self.
It's the same principle acrossthe different stages of dating.
You know like creating yourprofile, messaging and then

(56:16):
showing up on a whether thisperson is going to be the one or
someone that you just discardbecause they're not the one and

(56:39):
you know, fuck him.
But showing up with curiositylike, oh, who is this person and
what is, or might be, theintelligence of that connection.
There's a lot of people that Iwent on a first date with and it
did not pan out as arelationship or a romantic
relationship and it panned outas a friendship, like I'm still

(57:03):
in touch with a few people likethat that I've met on a dating
app and that I'm not dating.
So just being attuned andcurious about the potential
intelligence of that connectionallowed me to have really great
friends in my life.
But then of course, I also haverelationships where you know my
own husband I met on a datingapp.

(57:23):
So being attuned to theintelligence of that connection
did lead to a relationship, butit was not obvious right off the
bat either.
You know, we went on a firstdate and I wasn't sure that we
wanted to date and it took alittle while to get to know each
other.
But you know, and the firstdate, I knew that I was going to
be open to meeting him again.

(57:44):
So being able to be present tothat gray not necessarily trying
to resolve it into a yes toeverything or no nothing is
important.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Right.
I think also being okay andexploring maybe the I'm not sure
yet connections is a good idea,just simply because, depending
on your trauma, sometimes thatfiery, sparky thing that happens
right off the bat could be forreasons that aren't great.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
And you know being curious about.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Okay, I felt this incredible connection, this
excitement.
What is that about?
Is the same as, like sometimes,a safe person might not give
you the sparks right off the batbecause they're not holding you
in that anxious space, right.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Exactly, exactly.
That is exactly actually whathappened to me and my husband,
like I wasn't sure that it was.
You know that the spark was bigenough at the beginning because
it wasn't one of those likeintense attractions of
deprivation, in the words of KenPage.
It was more of this, like slowburn, and I had to stay present

(58:59):
with it, you know, in order tokind of let it unfold to what it
ultimately became.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
We talked about swiping strategy, so then we
move on to communication.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yes.
So communication is reallyabout finding our own truth and
being able to communicate fromthat place.
So, when a lot of that has todo with discerning our own yes
from our own no and a lot of us,especially women, but also men

(59:31):
are trained to say yes all thetime.
We're trained to think like Ihave a romantic opportunity and
someone else wants somethingwith me or from me, I have to
say yes because otherwisethey're not going to like me and
I'm going to lose this boost ofattention or validation.
It can be really hard toactually like say no when we

(59:55):
mean no, even to simple thingslike a hug or, you know, a long
phone call.
We just want it to end but wecan't, you know, get off the
phone because the other personwants to keep talking.
Like training us to actuallylike say what we want and what
we don't want is the foundationof a really healthy dating life

(01:00:19):
and relationship life, becauseif we don't say no and we mean
no, then we're bound to feeltrapped.
You know like I have a clientactually who has a really hard
time saying no to men.
So right now we're having heroff online dating because it's
just too much, you know, liketoo much attention and too many

(01:00:40):
requests, and too many requestsfrom men that make her feel like
she can't say no.
So she's, you know she's beingdriven crazy by the amount of
stimulation there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Oh, I bet they can be relentless.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yes, exactly.
So I think until she learns tosay no more easily and being
able to kind of overcome thatconditioning of I can't say no
to men having a slower, hastedating life is more appropriate.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Right yeah, it is hard to communicate from your
authentic self.
Dating life is more appropriate.
Weren't expecting that goesagainst everything you're
looking for, but you're alreadyso invested, right that?

(01:01:35):
It's hard to say, well, that'sthat.
That doesn't work right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Yeah, right, right, like.
A good example of that is let'ssay, somebody else wants to
have sex on the first date andyou really like them and you are
attracted to them, but youdon't want to have sex on the
first date, you don't feel readyfor it, you don't, you'd feel
like that's too fast.
There can be an impulse of justdoing it and saying yes because

(01:02:01):
you don't want to lose them,you don't want to lose their
attention, you don't want todisappoint them.
But then if you do it andyou're not feeling great about
it, then you might resent themor resent yourself.
And if they reject you afterthat, then you might feel like
there's really something wrongwith you and you gave them your

(01:02:23):
body, so to speak, and you know,you kind of went against your
own will and you're left withnothing and that can be super
painful.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Right, you're self-abandoned, and then they
left, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Right, right, exactly .
So that's a really importantthing to be able to say no to.
If you don't want it, you know,to just say like hey, I really
like you, I'm attracted to you,but I don't feel ready.
Let's you know, like, are youokay with you know, like, going

(01:02:56):
on a few more dates, like youknow, like no to this, but you
know, here's what I want.
Are you a yes to that too?
Or are we really wanting twodifferent things?
To be able to articulate thatand to be okay with.
Let's say you do want differentthings, and that's a conclusion
and it comes from clarity, thenthat's good.
That and it comes from clarity,then that's good.
That's a successful dating lifeIf you can have an honest

(01:03:18):
conversation with somebody elseand whether or not you're going
to keep traveling together andgoing on more dates, or whether
your paths are coming apart andit's not meant to be a long term
relationship or connection tobe a long-term relationship or
connection.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Neither of those things can be successful in my
book.
How in this conversation, canwe help people feel, or begin to
feel, okay with things notworking out?
I feel like so often whathappens is that after even just
a few dates, people have decidedthis is it right, and so that's

(01:04:02):
where the self-abandoningstarts, right.
So then they start like sayingthey want this thing, I didn't,
but you know, if I do it, youknow it's a small compromise.
It's a small compromise.
It's a small thing to give upto keep the relationship because
everything else is so good,whereas, like you just said,

(01:04:26):
that might be a good indicatorthat this actually isn't the
person for you to continuedating.
But it takes being okay with itgoing opposite directions.
Right, how does someone getokay with that?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Well, first of all, you have to be able to drink
from your own source and be okaywith not having a relationship,
just like you voiced earlier.
You said that you know you'vegotten really comfortable being
single and I think that's areally good place to date from,
because you already, you know,started to comfortable being
single and I think that's areally good place to date from,
because you already, you know,started to.
I mean, you're alreadycompensating for the loneliness

(01:05:01):
of not being in a relationshipwith.
You know you're drinking fromyour own cup.
You don't need a relationship,but you would like one.
So, whatever it takes for peopleto get to that point of like I
don't need a relationship tofeel okay with myself or about
myself, and that can take awhile, that can take a lot of

(01:05:23):
self-care, self-love,self-affirmation,
self-validation, and also havecommunity.
I think you know like we mightnot need a romantic relationship
to feel okay, but we all needconnection.
We all need to have friends andpeople who love us and that we
love.
So investing in that can bereally great as a way to not

(01:05:46):
feel so desperate when we feel,you know, in our dating life.
So cultivating our individualcup and our community cup can be
really good and then feelingokay with things not working out
also can connect to a sense oftrust that we can develop.

(01:06:07):
You know like trusting our lifeand we get into the spiritual
realm there too.
Like can we trust that there isbenevolence and coherence in
the universe, that if thisrelationship didn't work out,
you know like trusting that,trusting the other person's no

(01:06:28):
also I think it's a matter ofrespect.
You know like trusting that ifthey rejected us or if something
in us was not comfortable andwe ended up saying no to them,
just respecting that andtrusting that and people

(01:06:55):
listening, a good like kind ofgo bag, for they're going to be
done listening to this podcastand they're going to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Some of them are going to get on the apps and
start swiping intentionally.
Mindfully, folks, 15 minutes, Ilove that.
Limit it um or be go to um youknow some activity and be open
to meeting people.
What's a little little go bagof advice tools they can use as
they embark on their dating lifethat will set them up for as

(01:07:19):
much success as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Okay.
So yeah, to kind of package itall up, really start with being
clear about what you want, whatyou don't want, what you bring
to the relationship, what areyour deal breakers and your
must-haves, and then create adating strategy that feels

(01:07:44):
aligned with your goals and withwho you are.
So it doesn't mean that it'sall going to feel good all the
time, but things that you can dothat bring value to your life
anyways.
You know, even in online datinglike to really like, package

(01:08:06):
the whole experience as a growthexperience and as an
educational experience, trustingyour life and being able to
really own your yes and your no.
So the last thing is also tohave a support system, whether
it's a group of friends who canmirror things for you, having a

(01:08:28):
therapist or a coach who cankeep you on track with your
intentions, having a sort ofaccountability system so that
you don't fall into the same oldtraps again and that you stay
with yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Yeah, no more self-betraying guys, no more
self-abandoning.
And I love how we really thisall started with, like having a
good relationship with yourself.
And if you don't have a goodrelationship with yourself, like
go get help, get therapy.

(01:09:05):
I mean, trust me, I've beenthere, I'm saying this from a
place of nothing feels betterthan having a good relationship
with yourself.
Yes, and once you have a goodrelationship with yourself,
you'll feel it when you start tolose it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Right, right.
And you're not going to want tobe, you're not going to want to
be with someone who diminishesthat.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yeah, yeah, thank you .
This is all great advice anddefinitely something that I can
start.
I think I'm going to write.
I think I'm going to write mystrategy down.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Yay, I love that, yeah Putting language on things
is so powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Yeah, I think strategy, have it in place and
make sure I'm adhering to it,and I think for me and, as I
think, a lot of the listeners,it's going to like making sure
there's a strategy, strategy inplace that keeps me from my, my,
you know, pattern, which isself abandoning to make someone
else comfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Compromising?
I'm not really compromising,I'm just walking towards their
direction of what they want.
You know absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
People pleaser.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
So yeah, thank you, I feel like this is going to be
really helpful.
Can you tell, first of all tellmy listeners where they can
find out more about you, alsowhere they can download.
You have sort of a guide, alittle class for dating before
dating, or even if you guys arealready dating, take a class.

(01:10:29):
There's a class that's next tonothing.
That could save you extremeheartache.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Listen to me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
It's worth the money right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Yes, yes, I actually have two classes.
One is the Six Pillars ofMindful Dating and that is a
90-minute class.
It's $35 on my website $35 onmy website.
It's really the overview of myframework that I discussed today

(01:11:01):
, with some real life examplesand Q&A and interaction.
It's really, really lovely.
It's a lovely way to getstarted and get organized in
your mind about dating and whatdo you want to focus on.
And then I have a second classcalled humanize online dating
with mindful swiping.
And then I get much deeper intohow do you deal with dating
apps Like what do you watch outfor and how do you create a

(01:11:25):
profile that feels like you,that feels empowering?
How do you swipe?
How do you decide to swipe leftor right?
Again, it's that really deepdive into mindful swiping and
that's only $27.
And then people who areinterested in working with me
more personally I offer coaching.

(01:11:46):
It's really great because I cancoach people anywhere on Zoom
and you can book a free30-minute exploratory session
with me, also on my website,which is marietouincom.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
And we will be getting all of those links to
you.
I really think having someoneto support you and coach you if
you're new to this or if you,you know, have had traumatizing
experiences in the past, isworthwhile.
Definitely, taking like thesecourses is worthwhile.
We're dealing with hearts hereand humans, right.

(01:12:23):
Also, I would argue thatcreating a strategy, gaining
knowledge, will also keep yousafer, especially if you're a
woman.
Look, it is not necessarily thesafest world out there.
When you are on the dating apps, there are people that could be

(01:12:44):
dangerous.
So going into it with astrategy, being mindful about
who you decide to go out to, isadding another layer of safety
for you.
I felt like we should pointthat out.
So, um, thank you so much forjoining me today and giving me,
as well as my listeners, um,this important advice.
Um, so I already feel betterprepared for, you know,

(01:13:12):
whatever's going to happen whenI start really diving into
dating I figure in the next yearor so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
So I'm excited for you and yeah, I will report back
, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
So thank you, and to my listeners out there, good
luck out there, mindfullyswiping, and I will see you in
the locker room.
Cheers, bye, ring loop.

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