Real Talk Friday - Moses Otto

Welcome to Episode 4 of Real Talk Friday! In this captivating episode, we sit down with Moses Otto, an inspiring occupational therapist whose journey is nothing short of extraordinary. From his early life in Uganda, through a series of trials and tribulations, Moses’s story takes us to Kenya and then to Tasmania, Australia, where he has made a significant impact. Despite the challenges, Moses never forgot his roots. Today, he leads Acholi Resilience, an organization dedicated to advocating for and supporting the Acholi people—a Nilotic ethnic group from Northern Uganda and South Sudan. Through Acholi Resilience, Moses is helping to empower the Acholi community, believing that they themselves are the true agents of change. Tune in to hear about Moses's remarkable journey, his work with Acholi Resilience, and the profound impact he’s making. Don’t miss this episode of Real Talk Friday!

Logan City Christian Church is a vibrant growing church committed to serving and meeting the needs of our community and beyond through the various ministries within. We as a church welcome you to come visit this Sunday and be part of an active, excited team reaching the world one day at a time. Sunday Service | 9:30am Friday Youth Service | 6:30pm Thursday Prayer Meeting | 7pm Address | 13 Watland Street, Springwood Qld 4127 Church Website | www.logancitychristianchurch.com United World Ministries | www.unitedworldministries.com Instagram | @logancitychristianchurch Facebook | @logancitychristianchurch

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts Rohan Das and Gus Urban.

(00:13):
In this groundbreaking podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives of individuals whose
journey has been profoundly transformed by their faith.
From the trial of adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore real stories, real
people whose encounter with God has reshaped their existence.
Join us as we embark on a candid and enlightening journey where authenticity meets spirituality

(00:35):
every Friday on Real Talk Friday, part of Logan City Christian Church.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Real Talk Friday.
We're glad you joined us today and we have another special episode, like always, and
we'd like to thank you for all the support, all the prayers, everything you guys do for

(00:56):
us.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
Definitely.
We have a very special guest today and you know, our season two, we've promised you guys
to bring guests from around the world and doing very special thing and this guest is
doing a very special thing.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's incredible.

(01:16):
We want to welcome Moses Otto.
Thank you for coming.
A man from Uganda to Kenya to Tasmania.
And now going a lot of trips back to Uganda, doing an incredible work over in Uganda in
the northern area, northern Uganda and it's just incredible.

(01:40):
What we're going to start off with is something different guys.
We're actually going to play a clip from the ministry that Moses works for, a Cholly Resilience.
So we're going to play a clip for you now and that will really paint a picture so you
guys can understand what this man of God does.

(02:02):
When I landed in Australia, I knew that was a journey of no return.
I'd say he's heartbroken.
He was disturbed and he thought, what can I do?
And he really didn't want to go back again.
So when I first went back to Uganda, nobody told me this issue.

(02:23):
You know, these guys are dying.
Do they actually care that they're dying?
Probably not.
We have a community who is very needy.
They want to help.
Jesus said when I was angry, you fed me.
Wow, Vienna.
Oh, she says life has come back.

(02:44):
Boom, boom, boom.
Transformation does not come one day.
It takes a long time.
And the only way to go from here to here is you and me, we work together.

(03:09):
Healthy community can only be because there's God's habitation in that land.
God is present in that place.
I want that to be an example, a model for a truly resilient to the rest of Africa.
Wow, what a great clip.
Absolutely.
Isn't that?
Oh, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
And you know, when I was watching, I was like, wow, the production that you've done on that

(03:32):
video is incredible.
Yes, high quality.
Exactly.
Fantastic.
It really grips your heart.
It really does.
So fantastic work with that.
And your wife was the one that was on the background talking.
Yeah, my wife was talking.
Johanna.

(03:53):
So let's come to that story.
But we're going to start off more of your childhood and let's talk about where did you
grow up?
That's a straight good question.
Now I grew up in two countries.
Now you said it was from Uganda.
When you introduced me, it's not from Uganda.
I was born in Kenya.
Oh, you were born in Kenya.

(04:14):
Now I'll probably even actually give you a little bit of background from my childhood
there.
My dad is an Anglican minister.
So I was born during the era of Idi Amin taking over power in Uganda.
So what means the older generation will understand who Idi Amin is.

(04:39):
He was obviously a Muslim background and he wanted to get rid of all the Christian ministers,
the Christian leaders.
My dad at the time was literally still going through his theology college.
And so he had to run for his life.
So he went to Kenya and that's where I got born.

(05:00):
Okay, right.
So then we came back to Uganda when Idi Amin got whisked out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Uganda has always been in war.
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Ruled by different tyrant warlords that ruled the country until the last 40 years obviously
with the current government in power.

(05:21):
So my childhood, where did I grow up?
I know a little bit of Kenya when I was left.
I think when I left Kenya, maybe I was about two years old.
So I'd known a lot of my childhood in Uganda.
So my dad being an Anglican minister, we travel from Paris to Paris, different districts.
So I've always grown up in a Christian household.

(05:44):
Oh, very good.
Going to different places.
We would stay in one place for one year, Christmas over, you go to the next one.
So different schools I've gone through in Northern Uganda too.
So I remember when I went to school for the first time and I'm thinking I was in another
school, now I'm in this one.

(06:06):
That's sort of my lifestyle really was really around where my dad was and when he transferred
to another parish or something like that.
Wow.
So it was basically about once every year you'd probably go...
To travel to another place.
But I mean, depend when they wanted to move the Anglican minister.

(06:26):
So they moved them to different parishes.
So really there was a lot of uncertainty in where you were living, sort of...
Was it still stable, you would say?
Well, look, I was a lot younger.
And so I don't know whether I would say I was excited about the move, but we had to

(06:46):
move.
So I really didn't have a connection to a place.
I can name all the places that I've been and I'm thinking from when I knew.
But I guess the moves changed once we had the civil war because we had to go to our...
In Uganda there are different tribes.

(07:07):
So when war came, you got to go to your tribal line.
And we went to Northern Uganda where my parents come from.
And that's where we got stuck.
So with all the moves that we had moved, I really didn't have any sort of a place where
I would say I'm more connected to one or the other one.

(07:29):
There wasn't like some place you could call home that you had a connection to?
No.
It looked like my life up to now until I came to Australia, really what we're going to talk
about later.
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
No, but that's good.
What I have a question is like, as you said, your father was an Anglican minister.
What influence did he have in your life?
Lots of influence over my life.

(07:49):
Today they will live as well.
Like for example, so I'll put it this way, during the war I had to witness a lot of stuff
as a child as well.
When the government came into power, the current president wanted to get rid of the guns in
the community.
And they wanted the Anglican minister to help the people who had come back home with guns,

(08:12):
because they didn't trust the local to bring the guns.
So they sent the Anglican minister, like my dad obviously, to collect the guns.
One of the things that was really very scary for me is because he's collecting the guns
and you know, you're taking guns away from people, people are going to resist.
So being Anglican minister in this war, my dad obviously also was doing a little bit

(08:39):
of business to help the family.
He's an Anglican minister, he can ride his bicycle across borders.
He was going all the way to South Sudan, even made friends there.
That's actually another story we were talking about.
And he was, you know, buying salt from there and coming to sell it in Uganda.
We are the only family that had salt in our food.
The rest of the community, of course, couldn't afford it.

(09:02):
Also again, he's collecting guns, you know, to return it to the government.
One morning, he was just so one of those rare situation, you know, fellas just came from
nowhere and they're demanding for gun.
They came, they're really going to shoot my dad.
They actually put the pistol in his mouth, going to shoot you on the gun.
Literally didn't have any guns there because it really handed them over.

(09:26):
That situation that happened, probably one partly reason which actually can say ended
up as sort of coming out of Uganda is because my dad was involved in selling salt, you know,
to try to come and, you know, get money and all that sort of stuff.
A fella just came with a grenade and threw a grenade in our mud hat.
I shouldn't be speaking here.

(09:46):
No way.
You're probably going to get in that story.
I'm in some other story.
Yeah, I shouldn't be alive.
But what did I learn from my dad?
You got to trust God, whatever.
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
You got to trust God.
Yeah.
You try to go trust God for your life today.
You got to trust God.
When I was growing up, this is the sentiment I want you to know.

(10:07):
We were taught that, you know, living a Christian life, it's going to cost you.
You're going to get murdered.
Yeah.
Idi Amin killed the Ash Bishop of Uganda because of his testimony.
He did not agree with the president on his, the thing he was doing in Uganda.

(10:30):
You got killed.
He's a martyr.
He was killed, really.
And that's what we were taught.
Your life, you live every day, need to be totally surrendered to God.
Otherwise, you know, we can go anytime.
So I, it sets me free.
I was not afraid of death.
I'm afraid of death because I live in Australia.
But growing up, I was not.

(10:52):
Because you know, we were all looking forward to paradise.
So death was not something you're afraid of.
So that's one thing I learned from my parents or from my dad.
That's incredible.
Because we were talking earlier about Christian households of how important a Christian home
has influence over the children and it cements them.

(11:15):
You're living proof of that with your father that he set such an example for you that something
that would scare 99% of the people, just built a pillar in your life, I guess you could say.
So yeah, that's incredible.
Yeah.
So we'll look at the book of Acts when Paul talks about, I think it's Acts chapter 20,

(11:36):
24, verses 24, where he says that my life is meaningless to me unless I use it to finish
the work of the cross, to tell others about the wonderful grace of God.
I quoted the Bible.
So our life is meaningless to us, unless we're actually doing God's work.

(11:59):
Exactly.
So when we were talking earlier, when you said it is fighting now, but we are going
to celebrate the celebration, it's something we're looking forward to.
That's right.
Yeah.
We fight now and party later in heaven.
That's a really incredible story.
And you know what I love?
Because I've spent quite a lot of time in Kenya and I haven't traveled to Uganda, unfortunately,

(12:21):
but I'd love to at one point.
But I've gone to a lot of mission projects in Kenya and it's a living proof there of
how people actually live by faith and not by sight.
And it's just like, you know, one of the incidents just sitting down and they're not sure whether
they're going to get food for the next week because there's no rain.

(12:43):
They're not sure whether it's going to rain, whether the crops are going to grow.
That's right.
And yet they're like, oh, we trust in God.
And it's just like, you know, for us, we love to plan certain things.
We look in terms of sight, but not by faith.
And I love that about Africa in general, because that's it's amazing.
It's like it's definitely a place that will change you change the perspective.

(13:06):
That's right.
And you know, one of the most interesting thing that you told me is like people there.
And I think this was behind the cameras that you were sharing with us was a lot of the
pastors that they know the Bible off head.
That's right.
And you have to give them a Bible because they can't afford a Bible.
They don't have that.
But they know it off head and they go preaching.

(13:27):
That's right.
And it's just amazing to see that, you know, I don't see that much around here.
But yeah, it's so great.
You know, your story.
Uganda is a very good place.
You know, I've heard about it.
I know the people are amazing there.

(13:47):
But yeah, tell us your story of how you came out of Uganda, because you have you had to
move from Uganda to come to Kenya before you came to Australia.
So tell us more of that story.
So that story actually part of it was talking about the grenades.
So when the grenade was thrown on to us, that is a living story into the community that

(14:10):
we actually trust in God.
That's actually a testimony itself that we actually have in that community, because the
fuse was pulled out and it was thrown.
The only thing that stopped that was the hand of God.
So everybody will say that was the hand of God.
It was a sign that we needed to leave.
Yeah.
Well, my dad is an Anglican minister.

(14:30):
Well, it doesn't mean he cannot die, he can die.
One interesting to it, I'm going to tell you right now, my dad is a very fast runner.
And I probably think my children pick it from him.
So he was actually eventually caught by other guys that really want to kill him.
And in Africa, as you said, they still have that fear of God.

(14:51):
He's a minister, you're going to kill a minister.
And they said, and the minister, my dad said, well, just before you kill me, let me pray.
So they close their eyes.
I mean, you're going to murder a minister.
Okay, they close their eyes.
And he's going to pray, right?
They close their eyes and they had their gun there.

(15:12):
And my dad took off.
That's an incredible story.
And so that's literally with the bomb, I mean, the grenade throwing our house.
It was just obviously we got to leave.
So we left.
We ended up in another district called Gulu from there.

(15:34):
The other story I was telling you off the camera earlier, you know, I'm so driven by
the issues of social injustice.
I want to tell the rebel leader off because it was just not, you know, you don't feel
like living anymore, really.
Every day is, you know, you don't want to live the next day.
I mean, you don't enjoy going to school.
Too fearful in the evening.

(15:57):
Every child is, even the parents, you know, you're worried, you know, it's no future for
your kids.
That drove me, I want to tell him, but you know, it didn't happen anyway.
As I told you earlier off the camera, I was moved to another district from Gulu.
From Gulu then, you know, eventually we started moving toward Kenya.
When we got to Kenya, obviously we became refugees.

(16:20):
Now there's a little connection here, which is very interesting.
So because of, I'm actually from Northern Uganda, that's my tribe, where my parents
are from.
So there's actually also in South Sudan.
So there's intermarriages across the border.
So we've got relatives in South Sudan, and the relatives in South Sudan had moved to

(16:47):
because of the Australian, I think there's some Australian agreement with the refugees
in the time when we were in Kenya.
Yes, I remember that.
So they were coming to Australia.
So one fellow that was really, really good to me was, well, is more directly related
to my dad through the intermarriages.

(17:10):
He was very close to me really, and he really liked me, you know.
So he moved to Tasmania with his family.
And then, you know, I just sent him before he went, you know, he said, Moses, what can
I do for you?
I said, one day when you set in Australia, please invite me to come.
It was more casual, but at the time I was studying at the university already in Kenya,

(17:33):
and this is a good story I'm going to tell you a bit a little bit more.
So he was here for some reason, he remembered what I actually asked him.
And he was sending, you know, invitation out to some of his family members because Australia
allowed that.
But we did not qualify because we got that Uganda date and we've got relatives in South

(17:56):
Sudan, we didn't qualify.
But then he asked the Australian government about us, about me specifically.
And what came out is that if I can pay my ticket to Australia, I'll come.
Really?
Yes.
That's simple.
Simple like that.
Wow.
And he sent it home.
I'm busy studying at the university.
I had a scholarship from, that's also another story, I got a scholarship that a missionary

(18:22):
from the United States was, he was doing mission work in South Sudan, but they were based in
Nairobi.
And I was going to evening classes because I couldn't afford it.
And I made one of these, I met this project manager and he was just, I'm not very reasonably
good in maths.
It was a maths class.

(18:42):
So I used to meet with this project manager and I was, you know, obviously coaching her.
And she wanted to know my story.
And I said, I go to evening classes because I'm working, you know, I have to work all
day, working this sort of like a casual job.
It was more like a personal assistant to a director.
And I use the money to pay my school fees.
And she said, there's this missionary, they're doing a lot of work in South Sudan and they're

(19:05):
looking to sponsor somebody.
And I said, that looked like good.
I said, can you go and talk to them about me?
And I see when I talk to these guys and this guy said, you just fit perfectly people who
want to sponsor.
Oh really?
Oh no way.
We want you to finish your study and we want you to take over our project.

(19:26):
You know, that was the deal anyway, but it was not a good deal.
So one year gone, I'd gone to the main camp first.
And then this thing of Australia started happening with my uncle in Tasmania.
He sent us the form, the form down.
I need to pay.

(19:46):
The only thing he's holding me now is to pay and go to Australia.
I went to the person that was managing my scholarship and I asked him, you know, I've
got this opportunity to go to Australia permanently really.
And he looked at me, he was a white South African.

(20:07):
And he looked at me with this love in his eyes and I'm thinking, what is he going to
say?
And he said, Moses, you don't even need to finish your study.
You know, there's an African accent.
I would pray you go to Australia, your life would not be the same.
But then he said, you know what?

(20:27):
Your scholarship is tied to you finishing and managing the project that these guys are
doing in South Sudan.
And I said, all right.
That was it.
That's a dilemma.
I went home, you know, we said, can we get money from the bank or something like that?
We are too poor.
We can't get money from the bank.

(20:48):
And don't have the, you know, the requirement.
We didn't meet the requirement.
And I kept thinking, I'll go and ask this man again.
So I went to ask him again and he said, let's pray, Moses.
I would love for you to go to Australia.
So he gave me two weeks.
He said, we go pray.
We prayed there and he said, we keep on praying.
He was praying for me.

(21:09):
I came back next time and he said, guess what?
We are happy for you to go to Australia.
We're paying for you.
Wow.
Yes.
The university paid for my scholarship.
I paid for my flight to come home.
No way.
And guess what?
They paid for my brother too.
So I came with a brother to Australia.

(21:33):
Wow.
Incredible.
Yes.
That was in 2003.
2003.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I came to Australia.
It was just a complete God move.
He actually, you know what he said to me after that?
He said, Moses, you know what?
God is actually taking to Australia, you know, bigger mission.

(21:54):
There's something he wants to work through you.
Wow.
Which to me was probably the birth of so many things that I'm doing wrong.
Well that's right.
I mean, we've, you've shared with us what you're doing.
We've all seen the short video of what you're doing now.
And sometimes a word like that back then doesn't seem like much.

(22:15):
No.
But looking back in hindsight, what an incredible word to receive.
I prayed after that.
You know, I know going to Australia will be good.
These white men is telling me it's going to be good for you.
I went and prayed and I was fasting.
I had a whole week of the encountering God's presence.

(22:37):
That actually one day I asked my pastor and he said, you know what Moses, go to the hospital
and pray for somebody.
Cause you're carrying so much, so much anointing.
I mean, literally, if I actually start speaking somewhere, I will be crying or just praying
in tongues.
I had so much anointing and I said, exactly what are you saying?
And the confirmation is yes, you going to Australia, but you got so much work to come

(23:01):
and do here.
So I literally have a covenant agreement with God or what I'm doing now.
Before you left.
Before I left Africa.
Wow.
Isn't that incredible?
Yes.
So what I'm doing now, I would say, uh, poor, something like a poor thing, you know, you
have to do something for the Lord.

(23:22):
Exactly right.
So I skipped over.
And it's funny cause we're talking about, um, kids, Christian kids in sport.
And it's sort of like, when there is that hand of God upon them, it's like, sure, you're
gonna, you know, do what you love, but I'm going to need to use you at some point.

(23:47):
I've given you this light and this favor, but I'll, I need you to shine.
That's right.
So that's basically like the covenant agreement that you made with God.
It's like, you got this beautiful promise and opportunity to go to Australia.
Like talk about a promised land, like all the hardships you've been through, all the,
the almost near death experiences.

(24:08):
I literally went through bullets, you know, arrested by the rebels.
One of the other things I probably didn't share you off earlier, you know, having missed
the rebels, they one day caught me.
I went to my grandmother's house and I was carrying the cassava.
There's a story behind the same story.
That's right.
We have Tony here on the studios.

(24:30):
And you know, the vegetables and the rebels want that for their sustenance, you know,
obviously.
So I'm coming, you know, innocently with other kids, you know, and the rebels are, you know,
the thing that Rosalita did, obviously I don't want to go over talking about it now, you
know, the machetes and guns and all that sort of stuff.
And we know we are dead.

(24:52):
So they put us aside and they said, put all the package stuff there.
Thank you for bringing them.
And now you guys sit there.
What meant is that we are going to be the one carrying all that sort of stuff.
God save me that day.
A helicopter came from nowhere.
It was actually not the army helicopter or my military helicopter.
It was actually, I think could have been maybe just a UN one or maybe Red Cross.

(25:16):
Because I can remember up to now it was a white helicopter was going past.
But they were so scared, the rebels, that they told us, you go run, disappear, run,
disappear.
My goodness.
Wow.
Good save me that day.
Absolutely.
So there's been multiple times throughout your...
I've got so many stories.
I remember one day we just working in the garden with my dad and the rest.

(25:37):
And they were just shooting the fire.
The war was just going, you know, and the bullets, I can hear a bullet even now.
It just goes.
I heard it, we, my dad ran for his life.
He's a good runner.
Stick to what you're good at.
We hid under the mango trees, you know, you make sure, you know, you, yeah, you come in

(25:58):
this way.
Wow.
So we can't even imagine that.
I know.
I mean, look, I talk about it.
My wife sometimes think that I still have a lot of trauma, I need to release.
I've got a lot of stories that I can, you know, talk about myself.
But you know what, it was a good intervention.
God set that covenant.

(26:18):
I didn't.
I would love to come to Australia without a covenant, but God, you know, I had clearly,
you have to do something in Africa to bring you here.
So essentially you got a scholarship from God to come here because he wants you to do
something later on.
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
God paid for the ticket.

(26:39):
Amazing.
Yeah.
So yeah, what was it like for you?
Was it like a big culture shock or was it a whole different environment that you're
not used to?
Just, let's talk about more of like how you felt when you came here, because of course,
it's vastly different.
So of all the places God could have sent me, I don't know why it is.

(27:04):
It's cold.
So we flew from South Africa to Sydney.
And I thought that would end there, but you know what, I landed in Tasmania.
It was about 8.30 in the evening.
It was May, the beginning of nearly heading toward winter.
We were warned that we need to dress properly because it's going to be cold.

(27:24):
I did not want to get out.
I've never experienced any cold like that.
It is freezing cold.
Yeah, I could imagine.
And I'm thinking, what the heck?
What kind of blessings is this?
That's right.
What kind of blessing is this?
It's the weather.
But you know what, can I tell you something?
The first time I ever flew in a plane was a little plane and it made me really sick

(27:46):
in Kenya, right?
But I'm just looking at this and within that few seconds, I'm feeling cold and I'm thinking
I'm coming out on a plane.
I'm in Australia.
All that going in my head, why?
And I'm thinking, and the people are picking me out from the airport.
I've never met them before because my uncle didn't drive them.
Some people were to pick me out of the airport and I'm thinking, what the heck is happening?

(28:09):
That's all what is happening.
Like an ultimate shock.
It is.
It's cold.
First of all, I'm thinking, where am I?
I'm down under.
I'm thinking I came from a warm temperature.
I'm thinking about the poverty.
Apart from poverty, I'm thinking, well, it's going to be different here.
Within that split of second after landing, there's so much going on.

(28:32):
Yeah, I can imagine.
And then from there, was it like, would you call it your uncle or your family member?
Were you staying with them?
So I stayed with my uncle probably a couple of weeks or something like that before we
actually transitioned into my own unit.
Yeah, beautiful.
You imagine this, we come from a big family and now this is, I'm responsible for paying

(28:56):
my bills.
It's my own units in my house.
One thing that probably I haven't spoke to you, I enjoy prayer.
And when I go to pray, I go to, in Kenya, I used to go to Bush place and I would pray
there for hours.
And one of my biggest prayer was that, God, I want somewhere my own room where I can just
now pray.
Because in those places, I think that people are watching me.

(29:21):
And this is my own space now.
And I was loving my own space.
And I'm looking around, this is my own space.
How good is that?
So getting to the daily thing, living in Australia, different culture, learning to pay your bills,
obviously, getting to know the culture, different system, school, different and all that sort

(29:42):
of stuff.
I changed my mind.
I was doing community development and social work in Kenya.
I came and decided I'm going to go do nursing.
Oh, really?
But I didn't end up doing nursing.
In the midway doing nursing, I just realized there was going to be a lot of night shift.
So I didn't go.
I didn't know when I actually ended up enrolling to do physiotherapy.

(30:04):
And then I didn't even do physiotherapy.
I ended up doing occupational therapy.
Yeah, good choice.
So right now you are qualified occupational therapist.
You have a registered business as an occupational therapist.
You're married.
Yes.
And how many kids do you have?
I have five children.
Five children.

(30:25):
And you've come through a lot since 2003, 2004.
Around that time to now.
Talk about more like how did God actually work on you through that period into what
you're doing now?
So people might not know you have a lot of projects that you're doing in Uganda right

(30:48):
now.
So let's talk about how God was preparing you to do these projects that you're doing
now.
So I knew in the back of my mind from that covenant that I had with God, that God wanted
me to do something in Africa.
But now I am living in Australia, the land of milk and honey.

(31:11):
I'm a qualified occupational therapist.
So when we had our last born child, my wife had been asking me for a long time that, see,
my wife come from that background of working with youth remission and she's from the whole
world.
And so she said, I would like to go to Africa.

(31:31):
But remember, I have a covenant going to Africa and I don't want to do anything.
I don't want to go to Africa.
That was the thing.
I didn't want to go to Africa.
I mean, look, seriously, it is like a child who burned their hand on the stove.
You're not going to touch that stove again.
Yeah, no, yeah.
And but I know in the back of my mind, I know I had a covenant with God.

(31:55):
And it was hard.
I would pray every reason not to go to Uganda.
I mean, in fact, some days I know I have to go and I'm just thinking God, why me?
But then it reminds me I got a covenant with you.
Because you've got a beautiful family.
That's right.
You got a great job.
You got everything you need.
My job is flexible.

(32:16):
I run it myself.
Yeah.
I'm comfortable.
I'm very comfortable the way I do it, the way I run it.
And I'm thinking seriously, Uganda?
So my wife said she wants to go to Uganda.
And I yield to it and I said, okay, we better go.
So when our last born was born, I asked the manager that I want my leave and I want to

(32:42):
travel to Uganda.
And she was so kind and said, yes, you can go.
And I think the leave they would give me was five weeks.
And then I had the maternity leave that the government gave was another two weeks.
So I had seven weeks paid.
Oh, wow.
And I said, surely God has answered that.
Well, let's go.
So we went.
Seven weeks in Uganda.

(33:05):
So at this stage, I had not been in Uganda for 30 years.
Oh, wow.
So at that stage, I only had childhood memory of Uganda.
Bad one, no good one.
And so when I was going to Uganda, all that was with me when I'm going with my family.
So I tried to avoid anything that would trigger any of that.

(33:29):
And I going on the road, I remember when my dad ambushed me, I was just thinking, I'm
not going on the bus.
I'm going in a higher car.
And I drove in my 70 whatever driving.
So there was a lot.
So we went and we went visited the places, my family, the rest of the family now live

(33:51):
in Australia.
So my uncles and my grandmother and all that.
So I went and visited them.
And then it was good.
I went to places that I used to go as a child and all that sort of stuff, including Kenya.
I went to Kenya too.
I went to the safari.
It was good.
Going to Kenya was the last thing we did, which was a really good memory to the safari

(34:12):
and all that.
So we came back, but it was probably maybe a month later.
And my wife didn't really say much until we came back.
And she said, you know, Moses, I've done a lot of mission work in a lot of third world
countries and I'd not been to Africa until this.

(34:34):
And she said, I have seen so much poverty in Uganda I've never seen before.
And I think, who?
Okay.
It must be really poor.
So that kept going in my head.
And I actually kept thinking about it too then until probably, I don't know, four years

(34:58):
later I was on a Facebook page.
This is prompting of God is just amazing.
And I was seeing this thing, a silvery sort of looking in a cadaver of a child with nodding
syndrome.
And I'm researching what is this nodding syndrome and there's no information about it.

(35:20):
But in Uganda and a trolley child, now that same anger I had to go and tell off the rebel
leader just filled me.
I was so angry.
I'm thinking, why is a child and then now I'm reading nearly the whole community is
affected and I'm thinking, wow.

(35:43):
I called a few people and people are vague about it because people are not allowed to
talk about the issue of nodding syndrome because the government is blaming on it.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of politics behind it.
Behind it, yeah.
Okay.
And I thought, I'll call my uncle.
He will tell him the truth.
So I called my uncle and he went all quiet.
And I'm thinking, are you all right?

(36:06):
And he said, you know what?
This is his own word.
Your brothers and sisters have it.
So in African culture, it means his children has it.
They have it.
So he's got six children and three of his children have nodding syndrome.
And I said, so how is nodding syndrome?
And then he started describing it.
I got even furious.

(36:27):
But the thing that has happened is, as the government helped, the government really is
staying away from it.
They help a little bit, but try to stay away because it's very politically.
You know, it's blamed for it.
So the people have been asked to help.
They have all been corrupt.
And the government up to this day is asking the money they have given to be accountable
for it.

(36:48):
No accountability.
Wow.
And he says there are a lot of people who have come to help us, but none of us has helped.
They promised a lot of help, but none.
Nothing?
No one delivers?
Nothing.
Nothing.
So what I want to do is to help your viewers or the listeners is that it requires 24-hour
support.
Now you're living in sub-Saharan Africa, you can't get that support.

(37:12):
And they're all subsistent farmers and depend whether the rain rains or not.
And then you've got one or two or three kids with nodding syndrome.
It's a nightmare.
Can you quickly describe nodding syndrome to people that you explained to us earlier?
So nodding syndrome affects the whole person intellectually, physically, everything.

(37:33):
So most of this, probably go back, step back.
So when the war was finished in Northern Uganda, the government decided to send the actually
people who were in the camp back home.
Just remember there was 2.5 million that went to the camp.

(37:54):
At the time they went back home, it was only 900 people and they were young people.
So when they came back home, they were giving birth to children.
After five years of age, they developed a condition nobody knows.
It's called nodding syndrome.
Nodding syndrome because they just nod their head.
They grow to a height of this, a 20-year-old person will be that tall.

(38:16):
Like four foot tall?
Yes, just that short.
Distorted growth, obviously.
So physically, completely formed and all that sort of stuff.
They don't speak so intellectually.
Intellectual disability, it is more like someone, so the brain apparently shrinks.
It's like someone who has dementia.
So the brain shrinks until they die.

(38:37):
So they experience aggressive seizures.
Sometimes it goes for months and they would die from seizures.
Now this is the interesting thing.
I was actually thinking it was demonic.
In Matthew, I think Matthew chapter 17, there was that child that used to be thrown into

(38:57):
fires and then water.
It's exactly what I see in the nodding syndrome.
They're so attracted to fire.
If they see fire, they would just be going around there and they just drop in the fire
and they burn themselves.
And if you've seen some horrific pictures of burn, it is horrible.
And also when it rains, they're so drawn to water, they will go to the water and they

(39:22):
drown.
Oh my goodness.
It's just a horrible thing that happened.
So from seizures to burns, it is horrible.
It is something that you don't want to witness.
But then the thing is, you've got these peasant subsistence farmers handling this.
They don't have the time or the...

(39:43):
No, no, to do it.
So you literally stay there to look after a child, but then you need to farm, you need
to feed them.
Yeah, that's right.
So all these promises has been promised to people who are doing research on them, but
they've never done anything for them.
And that really hanged me.
And I said, God, I have no money.
I can feed my family here.
That's the best I can live.

(40:04):
But then to extend to help somebody in Uganda, I could help my uncle, which I did.
But then my uncle said, everybody affected here.
And we said, well, we help the one.
So we started by helping the one.
So let's talk about more of that helping the one because that one has turned into so many
now.
Yes, yes.

(40:24):
So let's talk more about that.
So now helping the one, it meant that I needed to move to Uganda.
Yes.
A place you don't even want to go.
I have five children, Western kids.
Yeah, that's right.
They strongly identify themselves Australian.
Yeah, yeah.
Strong identity there.

(40:45):
So I took them to Uganda.
We saved a little bit of money to help us live in there.
And so we want to help that one.
And obviously, if you're helping yourself, and in Uganda, they can't employ me.
They don't even use the service of occupational therapist.
My wife could have employed me as a teacher, but what would that money do to the ministry
that we're doing in Uganda?

(41:06):
So after staying there for a long time, one year, we exhausted everything.
And we were trusting that God would supply and you know, obviously, I decided the only
thing you know best to do is pray.
Going back to God, I'm here now, the covenant.
Come on, supply.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It didn't work.

(41:27):
We back and came back.
But before we came back, we prayed.
I said, God, this work should not be done by individual.
It's the work of the church.
You got to work through the church.
The body of Christ need to do this.
How come they're not seeing it?
You know, we got other organizations like obviously, Irene Gleeson are there, they're

(41:50):
busy doing something else.
That's obviously, actually, some people, they were doing it too.
But a lot of people, even in the community, because they are shut off because of politics,
they don't even want to know about it.
I approached the Anglican bishop.
I went to, he was quite happy to meet me.
And then when I started telling him my story, he's like, huh?

(42:12):
And I'm thinking, are you acting?
Yeah, like he just like as if he's playing dumb.
Yeah, playing dumb.
Yeah.
We left there very disappointed.
Yeah, I could imagine.
He put a good meal for us, but very disappointed.
And I'm thinking, where are we going to go from here, God?
I decided to pray.
We continue praying.
And so one day I went to a computer shop, computer shop.

(42:35):
And I wanted some help because I got a few computers that we wanted to donate to schools
because we're, you know, my kids and all that.
So we wanted to donate those computer to school.
And a gentleman was sitting there.
And I can see he's just looking at every move.
And apparently, his brother was the one repairing those computers.

(42:56):
And he looked at me and he said, excuse me, sir, you have a lot of computers.
I would like you to give me one.
And I'm looking at him.
Seriously?
I don't even know you're asking me for a computer.
And it turns out he's a pastor.
And he said, if you know what I'm going to do with the computer, you probably would really,
really like to hear my story.

(43:16):
And I said, I would like to hear your story now.
And then so he went out and he just told me, I'm a pastor.
And I'm going, really?
Are you a pastor?
Where's your church?
He said, across the river.
And I thought, there's only community church here.
There are a lot of churches around here.
And then he started telling me that, you know, a big organized Christian organization came

(43:37):
from US and they recruited a lot of Christians to start churches.
They have given them stipend, like, you know, twenty dollars and a bike and send people
to go and start churches.
Yeah.
So there are all these Christians that went and opened churches.
They don't even have Bibles.
Oh, no way.
But a preacher from the head or someone they've heard from, Joyce Meyer, someone else, someone.

(44:05):
I fell for that man and I really want to know.
And then he started telling me the issues with the pastors.
And look at him, I think, now, how many people look around?
I don't want to really differentiate myself with you because literally says they fight
each other physically on the street.
And if somebody from congregation, even worse, you know, it just they had such a bad name

(44:29):
in Kitcom, you know, and some of them all managed to travel overseas like Pastor Alfred,
you know, you know, say, you know, you know, they'll be pointing at him and slandering
and all that sort of thing for.
And then when I went back home to my wife, I said, now I know exactly why there's a big
problem in this community.

(44:50):
You know, it's a community that completely divided the devil just, you know, separating
everyone, causing all the chaos in here.
And it's been like this for a long time.
And the community is so deep in witchcraft.
Witchcraft is such a big thing in Kitcom.
Up to now, as I speak, it's the thing, you know, they want to get rid of churches, basically,

(45:14):
you know.
So that conversation with that man started a big move for us to say, we need to support
the pastors.
Yeah.
You know, I wanted the pastors to support me.
Now we need to support the pastors.
We need anything done here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I asked him, what can I do?

(45:35):
And we just felt we can just have a few pastors come for breakfast and we have a little bit
more discussion.
Yeah.
So our home was not far away from where Irene Gleason is.
And so we invited pastors, maybe I just thought there would be 20 people come.
So we put breakfast ready.
150 people showed up.
They heard breakfast.

(45:56):
Yes, breakfast.
And you know, his wife is a white woman.
Thank him.
Oh, geez.
And I'm thinking, okay, well, we can have this thing here.
We got to go to a hotel.
So there's a hotel just close there.
It's called Present View.
We went to the hotel.
That was the best service I've had in a long time.

(46:18):
Breakfast turned into an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
Wow.
You know, we were just, you know, we were having breakfast from breakfast.
Then they started singing and it turned into a service and the service will not stop.
Wow.
And then afterward, you know, they're all sharing how they're doing ministry and forgiving
each other.
Wow.

(46:38):
I not ask them to forgive each other because we have now in there.
I mean, look, if God has come, what the first thing to happen?
We said, oh, you know, that fight.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, so it was a forgiveness sort of meeting.
And we thought that's really maybe the start of something bigger to happen.
We, well, we can organize another one.

(47:02):
Organize another one three months later.
That was probably about 300 people.
They didn't really have to send what we just, they said in three months time coming, we
are paying the breakfast, okay?
That breakfast turned into lunch as well.
So they said, Moses, maybe we can have breakfast and lunch and say, oh, that's fine.
We can organize that.
Okay.
And I was actually happy to do it.
It was really good for me to see pastors coming together.

(47:24):
So we organized those lunch and lunch and breakfast, obviously.
I actually had to stop that meeting.
It stopped for about 10 in the evening.
No way.
Because they will not go.
Wow.
It was just a lot of praise and worship and just sharing and just talking about ministry.
Now these are pastors that used to fight on the streets.
I should have got Alfred to talk about that.

(47:46):
Yeah, true.
When he was here.
But you see, pastors now working together.
Wow.
That got stopped.
That momentum stopped because of COVID.
Okay.
But it didn't kill the spirit because after COVID, last year we had a pastors conference
of 2,500.

(48:06):
Wow.
And when I was actually doing the closing max, because I was, I said, and I remember
I'm speaking and I can remember God speaking to me because I'm looking, I'm not a pastor.
Right?
I'm seeing 2000 pastors seated here with bishops.
Actually, there was five bishops.
I shouldn't even be speaking.

(48:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then I had six guys from Australia.
These are pastors that are coming.
I'm looking around and I'm thinking, God, how is it me closing this?
I am honored to close this after this outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
So the pastors conference was another level.

(48:47):
This last one we had because God just came the last day.
Just to put a bit of a spin on it here for the viewers.
The last day, my wife was preaching and it was, we learned that there's a lot of domestic
violence in the pastors homes and all that sort of stuff.
So my wife was preaching about it.

(49:08):
And then she asked the women to forgive the husbands.
And then for the husband to bless the wives.
So the pastor's wife.
And God showed up big time when people are forgiving each other.
They were praying and crying.
But later, it was like two hours later, we were expecting 3000 kids, the pastor's children

(49:30):
and other kids who are coming for the pastors conference.
That just took over what is happening in the main auditorium.
And these kids are coming and are meant to take over.
It is spill over the kids and the kids couldn't sing.
African kids love to sing.
And they just started singing and they just started crying.
I mean, we just started ushering the pastor.
We're going to go home.

(49:52):
That's how beautiful it is.
What has left now in Kitkum is this strong unity.
I would have loved to talk about Pastor Alfred and the other pastors here.
Tony, you like to hear this.
And Pastor Alfred will tell you that.
Organizing that pastor conference was so challenging because Pastor Alfred didn't want to do anything

(50:14):
with it.
And the pastors were just like this too.
I took the head pastor that's now leading all the other pastors.
I said, let's go to Pastor Alfred's house.
They went to his house.
And I said to him earlier, even Pastor Alfred left his office, didn't want to meet these
guys.
But we went to Pastor Alfred's home.

(50:36):
I repent and I append there.
So good, so good to witness.
And Pastor Alfred himself said, you know what?
This place is so big for one church to minister to it.
If we don't work together, we will never come, please, and do anything in Kitkum.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
That's the pastor who preach here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(50:57):
He's an incredible man of God.
That unity in his home set that fire that day.
Wow.
He's the one who brought those 3000 kids.
Oh, really?
And people to witness kids doing that.
It's just amazing.
Yeah.
So that's light in our work that we're doing in Uganda because I really wanted the church

(51:17):
to take hold of it.
I wanted to go through the church.
We got a farm now in Uganda.
In Northern Uganda, we are setting it up.
Yeah, go into that.
That's very interesting.
Yeah.
So we've got, I've got pastors that manage what we do in Uganda.
So they bring the congregation to work in there.
The community also come to work in the farm.
How good is that?
Yeah.

(51:38):
No, incredible.
So I'm actually seeing what God was telling me 20 or 30 years ago.
Yeah.
It's coming to pass now.
Yeah, that's so good.
There's a big transformation in Kitkum.
It's coming together, seeing people wanting to work and earn.

(52:00):
So as we spoke earlier, it's a community that was in refugee setting for 20 years.
And when it's a generation really, when they came back home, they don't know how to work.
Yeah.
They need, they just depend on what people are giving them.
So to work, it's like, my goodness, you want to torture us.

(52:20):
They can go and work.
That's what we were talking earlier.
I want them to work, earn it themselves.
I go to Uganda, I literally have to empty everything.
I feel like I'm coming back wearing my undies on.
Because I've emptied everything.
You've given all you got.
Everything.
And I've done that year and year and I'm saying, this doesn't work.
You got to earn from your own labour.

(52:41):
You got skills, you got abilities.
And you got on your own God given abilities.
You can prosper through that.
That's right.
Yeah.
And we created all that space for them and we want God to work through them and just
see that they're on living as well.
So we're a lot of missions, like we were saying before, can go wrong.

(53:02):
Is they just keep giving, giving, giving, giving.
That's wrong.
Yeah.
Exactly right.
It doesn't build anything.
I mean, it's biblical for us to work.
And so if we're just giving, giving, giving and not instilling.
We're causing more problem.
Exactly right.
Yeah.
And out of compassion we're causing more problems.
Problem, yes.
But you're doing the total opposite.

(53:23):
Out of compassion.
Yes.
You're creating opportunity for people to work on the farm, develop skills.
That's right.
And it builds the community there.
Yes.
Where you don't anymore have to keep giving everything you've got.
Yes.
It's sustainable.
That's right.
And it builds the community.
That's right.
People that never had a work ethic now have developed a work ethic.

(53:45):
That's right.
You were telling us before that you actually pay above.
What they need to be paid.
What they need to be paid.
Yes.
So there's a lot of incentive to work.
To work, yes.
So yeah, such a beautiful thing.
I mean, look, when I live in this culture of Australia, you think from the people in
the door before they actually get a job.

(54:05):
You know, there's so much incentive they're given.
Yes.
In Uganda it's total opposite.
Where if you don't work here, you starve.
You starve, yes.
You know, it's literally up to you.
You want to...
There's opportunities there, but you got to work at it.
So I look at it in a different way.
Some of these guys, they may need a little push.

(54:26):
There are other people who will never, it doesn't matter what you give them, they will
never, they will be poor.
And I mean, the word of Jesus, he said, the poor will always be with you.
Yeah.
You know, it's up to us, people who have a little bit of thing to help them.
There are some people who have significant disability, we have to look after them.
That's our responsibility.

(54:47):
But there are some people who have all the abilities, the skills are there.
They're just lazy.
They just need somebody to kick their backs.
You know?
So I think that little incentive to say, well, look, you are normally paid 2000 Ugandan shilling.
I'm going to pay you 5000.
Come and work.
Yeah.
I mean, that will be like $2.
He's working all day for $2.

(55:09):
Wow.
Well, that's better.
I've made a difference.
First of all, is earneth the self worth in that.
Exactly.
And then he gave me opportunity to also talk about the love of God.
I'm doing this thing because I love God.
And so I wouldn't be doing this otherwise.
I'm quite comfortable living in Australia.
Yeah.

(55:30):
It's my dream, you know, but I'm doing this.
I'm making the sacrifice for you to have the opportunity.
You make money out of this, but think of God, the creator too.
He gives you the ability to do what to do.
Exactly right.
And with the new steps that are taking place, we heard earlier with housing and also water.

(55:53):
You were saying that there's still mud huts.
We live in mud hut in Northern Uganda.
Tony can tell you about Northern Uganda.
It's still mud huts.
I would probably say confidently 80% of Northern Uganda live in mud hut.
Wow.
In 2024.
And water is a long distance.
So viewers or listeners, you woke up this morning, you just got to the bathroom and

(56:19):
you brushed your teeth.
You turned that water, you don't even know whether it was dirty or something.
You didn't worry about that.
No, no.
You didn't have to get out of your house.
That's right.
Somebody has to walk, you know, a few kilometres to get a clean water.
Yeah, that's unbelievable.
Still in this day and age.
And live in a mud hut and the mud hut, somebody sunk and it rained, especially most vulnerable.

(56:41):
I'll build for you permanent buildings for other families.
It got sunk and I'm thinking, can somebody, you know, even just thought of just fixing
it.
Yeah, yeah.
Just prop something up.
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's just, yeah, that's the sort of lifestyle.
Yeah.
And they live in mud hut.

(57:01):
It's incredible what you also said was that kind of live really sunk on me pretty good.
Like some people have to pay a certain amount of money just to go and get water and come
back.
And you said it was around five dollars.
Yes.
Australian dollars.
Yes.
You know, I was thinking about this morning when I bought a coffee for five dollars.
Yeah, well, that's right.

(57:21):
Yeah.
US probably is so easy to earn it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just, I never thought it was just coffee.
But you know, it's just that money can actually help someone get supply for water, clean water
for, you know, families.
So putting that into perspective, I think we are very blessed.
Very blessed.

(57:42):
Oh, yeah.
And God gives everybody a role.
Yeah.
And I believe the role of us is to help financially.
Yeah.
Because we do really good.
Of course, prayer is there to back up these things.
But I think God has given us riches in this country.
Financially, we are doing very well in this country.
And I think that's our duty and our responsibility to help in that way.

(58:07):
Yeah.
Providing it's going into a work that sustains the people.
And multiply it.
Multiply it as well.
Yeah.
Sustain it in right there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And people embracing it.
Managed by godly people.
Yeah.
People who actually understand God.
Because, I mean, look, I was reading, I don't know, it was Tony Blair.

(58:29):
Tony Blair said, I don't know where I read that.
It must be on our Instagram pictures.
He says, the money that has been sent to Uganda over 10 period here, compared with money in
England.
Now, this is incredible.
He said, the money that was given to Uganda, it's even more the budget he had in 10 years.

(58:52):
No way.
With almost zero results, would you say?
Well, we still had Mad Hats in Northern Uganda.
Yeah.
So you see the fruits.
The road, I don't know when Tony went to Uganda.
When I went to Uganda with my family, it took us nearly 12 hours to drive from Pamukkampala
to get to Gulu, not even Kipkom.

(59:13):
Because every 100 meter, when it was a puddle, and you were scared, I probably broke the
car.
Yeah.
And you nearly feel like you're driving off the road or something like that.
But now it's been fixed.
Yeah.
It's taken another 20 years to fix it.
Yeah, well.
So we have road, which is all right.
But people, the facilities, homes, water.

(59:35):
I mean, yes, what in comparison, you think of, I'm paying these guys more.
Normally the wage you would be paid would be about 3000 Ugandan shilling, right?
Which is probably one dollar something.
Wow.
Okay.
But they are paying five dollars and they have to walk a distance of 10 kilometer to

(59:55):
get clean water and they have to pay five dollars for that.
How much they have to earn?
That's ridiculous.
Just to get.
So what?
A lot of people who can't earn that money, you just go and drink the dirty water.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you walk in the community, you get these kids with big, tell me they're full of bill
hyzer.
Yeah.
Dirty water.
Yeah.
Bad nutrition.
Incredible.

(01:00:15):
Yeah.
But I see, look, I work here, the little work that I do here, support the work with
the people we do, it goes a long way because our dollar is a lot more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly right.
So if we can get the lazy people with a little bit of a kick and the people that we can never
get kicked, we can help them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.

(01:00:36):
Yeah.
I mean, look, it doesn't mean there's no need here.
I mean, look, in Australia we still have people.
We still have, yeah, we still have a need for sure.
That's right.
I guess the thing is there are a lot of government funded opportunities for people to get help
here.
Uganda, there's nothing.
None.
You're on your own.
If you get help, it may be once in a lifetime you hear the government give them flour and

(01:00:58):
beans.
Okay.
Yeah.
When you need medicine instead.
I talk about medicine.
Here's another thing.
I took a fella in the hospital.
We had lots of burns.
We went to the hospital.
You probably see that in the clip.
You know, there's no medicine.
So that hospital is close to the border.
South Sudan come there as well.

(01:01:19):
And they say, oh yeah, you know, this, the population is too big.
So whatever the government has given, it was exhausted.
Yep.
There's no medicine in the hospital.
The workers are there and they say, we haven't been paid for six months.
Oh, and I'm thinking, really?
Wait, you know, basically there is no medicine in the hospital.
The workers have not been paid.
So, and then the little that will come, the doctors are very clever.

(01:01:42):
They have little clinics.
They'll take that medication channel in the little clinics.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it's just...
There's a lot that needs to be done.
There's a lot that needs to be done.
And I think, you know, from the fault to where we are now in the dispensation where we're
talking redemption, God just need to redeem the world.

(01:02:04):
Yeah.
Right.
So we are part of it.
What we're doing now is part of redemption process.
You know, obviously we want people to be sustainable.
Or we also need to be sustainable.
People need to work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you for this amazing interview, Moses.
We're truly blessed to have you.

(01:02:24):
And this was such a great interview, you know, talking about what you do and, you know, what
I really love about you is your passion.
Yeah.
And also, you know, how you give everything you have back home.
Because as you say, it goes a long way.
If one person like you does this and it's helping more than one community, it's a huge
population.

(01:02:45):
Imagine when all of us do this.
Yeah.
It's going to change the whole world.
It is.
And that's amazing.
And thank you for doing what you do.
You know, unfortunately, we have to come to the end of the episode.
That's all right.
We don't have much time, but I'm sure our viewers, when they hear this, they would want
to connect with you, talk to you, give to your project if the Holy Spirit convicts them

(01:03:08):
to do.
Yeah.
Do you have anything to say to our viewers?
Because we give this opportunity a short while for you to talk to our viewers.
And you can look into the camera or talk to us.
Whatever's on your heart.
Whatever's on your heart.
Just share with our viewers.
Well, look, as you said, I appreciate that.
I am one person.

(01:03:28):
I cannot save the whole world.
This is the thing.
There's 2.5 billion Christians right now on earth.
There's also 2.5 billion people on earth who are in poverty.
Wow.
That's the research.
I've done it recently.

(01:03:49):
Imagine if each of us Christians, you don't need to do what I do, would not only listen
to me, look at your backyard.
Even here in Australia, we will not have people on the street if the 2.5 billion people do

(01:04:11):
what Jesus asked of us.
Jesus stayed with the 12 disciples.
He showed them how to fish for men.
And he left the 12 people with the Holy Spirit.
And we still have the Holy Spirit today.
And said, go and make disciples.

(01:04:31):
And we are part of that.
The 12 people changed the world, but we have 2.5 billion right now.
What are we doing?
I think I probably would even say, what are we doing?
That's what I would love to live with you.
But I would encourage you if you felt that the Holy Spirit pressed into you to support

(01:04:52):
what you're doing, I think the first thing I would ask you to do is to pray.
Pray and ask God what would God have you do?
You don't have to come to Uganda to do ministry.
You do it right in Australia.
I love, there's a lot of mission work we can do here.
We need to save Australia.
We need Australia to get to know Jesus.
We need the whole world to know Australia.

(01:05:13):
A little fellow from our church that used to hide behind a camera, you know, church,
I invited him to come to Uganda.
When he came to Uganda, he said, so what are we doing?
I said, we're doing a documentary.
And he says, so where's the script?
I said, I don't have any script.
When you wake up every day, you just take a picture of me or video me.
And then I said, by the way, you know, on Sunday you're preaching.

(01:05:35):
Now, this is someone who's so scared.
Guess what?
He went with me to Uganda.
He prayed for old lady after preaching and that lady got ill instantly.
Just like that.
I have video of picture we can show you.
And this fellow came back home, a changed person.
He preaches in our church, main congregations.

(01:05:55):
He now leads the youth ministry.
So I see the transformation.
We don't need money.
Yep.
God got it.
10,000 carol.
That's right.
He will send that money to come if we need that money.
I think the transformation need to be from us viewers.

(01:06:16):
We need God first.
So I would like God to work in you.
If he press something in you that you need to come on a mission work with us, you're
welcome.
But he press in you to give your welcome.
You can visit our website, which is on that video that we watched earlier.
It's www.actuallyresilient.org and there's ways that you can participate in whether giving

(01:06:40):
or coming on a mission work with us.
I know there are few people who really want to go next year.
And I think most likely we're going to have a pastors conference.
So you can come and see these pastors we've been talking about face to face.
And the thing that I really love about what we do in Uganda, if you're giving from Australia
is probably just like Irene Glissant.

(01:07:00):
So you come and see it yourself that your money if you give your money, you come and
see what's actually happening.
Yeah, that's right.
I have my board members, we work for free.
And we just decide to serve God that way.
All our money and well, look, the biggest donor is me anyway.

(01:07:25):
So I keep very close eye on the money because it's taken a lot of my time.
And the money that I give, I literally go and make sure that is actually doing what
we're doing on the ground.
That the seeds hit the soil.
That's exactly.
And it's making a huge difference.
Amen.
Thank you, Moses for coming on this show.
Thank you.

(01:07:45):
We're truly blessed as I said, and thank you.
I'm sure of you is thoroughly enjoyed it.
All we like to do is close in prayer and we'll ask you to close in prayer.
Okay.
Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you for this opportunity that Lord, I can share Lord to
a lot of people who are listening to this word.

(01:08:09):
Lord, you pressed in my heart so much that I need to do what I'm doing.
And now I'm sharing the testimony and your word says that by our testimony in the blood
of Jesus we have overcome the world.
And so Lord, I thank you.
I pray that this testimony, we encourage somebody, we'll inspire somebody that Lord, they will

(01:08:29):
take action.
And this action not only to go to Uganda, but Lord, the action to start with ourself.
God, where are you in our own lives?
What are we doing?
What are you speaking?
Because you're speaking every day, but are we listening or are we tune our ear off?
And so Lord, I pray for the listeners right now, Lord, that they would open their ears

(01:08:50):
and they hear you speaking to them.
Because Lord, you want us to transform this world.
You want this world to be for you and to bring glory to you.
So I pray for the listeners, Lord, and for ourself here, that God, would you do something
new starting today, starting now, Lord God, in our own lives?
And as we go into the rest of the world, transforming the world, Lord, give us the strength, give

(01:09:13):
us the wisdom and keep the fire burning in us, Lord.
I pray all this in Jesus' name.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of Real Talk Friday.
That was Moses here sharing his amazing story.
And we just want you to know that we love to hear from you.

(01:09:34):
So make sure to email us or give us a text message.
Or if you want to know more about Jesus, feel free to email the church's email and someone
will get back to you and will love to connect with you and love to do life with you.
But this was Real Talk Friday and we'll see you next episode.

(01:09:58):
As we conclude our episode of Real Talk Friday, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all our
listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey.
But our journey doesn't end here.
Join us every Friday as we continue to uncover the real stories of real people, where authenticity
intersects with spirituality in profound ways.
Together we'll navigate the complexities of life, finding inspiration and hope in the

(01:10:22):
remarkable narratives shared within the walls of Logan City Christian Church.
Thank you for tuning in and until next time, may your faith journey be filled with grace,
understanding and the unwavering presence of God.
Stay tuned for more Real Talk every Friday on Real Talk Friday.