January 19, 2025 • 48 mins
Welcome to the Season 3 premiere of Real Talk Friday!
We're thrilled to kick off this season with an extraordinary guest, Ross Winchester—ACCI’s longest-serving Field Worker and a true legend of the mission field. For over 40 years, Ross has dedicated his life to following Jesus’ call to disciple the nations, sharing the gospel across North and Southeast Asia. In this transformative episode, Ross takes us on an inspiring journey through his life of service, faith, and relentless obedience to God’s call. From his early days in Australia, where he built a foundation of service in his local church, to his first missionary post in Thailand, Ross shares how stepping into the unknown shaped his ministry. He recounts planting churches, leading teams, and ministering to underserved communities while navigating personal trials, including the loss of his first wife, Bronwyn.
Ross also reflects on his impactful 20 years in China, where he trained underground church leaders, organized worship events, and saw lives transformed—one of his most cherished memories being the salvation of a friend over shared motorcycle rides. Now back in Thailand with his wife, Donna, Ross continues to equip and empower emerging leaders across Thai, Hmong, Karen, and Lahu communities. His heart for practical and spiritual support shines as he discusses his work with Karen people affected by Myanmar’s civil war, providing essentials like food and Bibles to those in desperate need. Throughout the episode, Ross shares valuable lessons from his decades in ministry: Trusting God’s faithfulness through every season. Embracing interruptions as opportunities. Recognizing there’s no expiry date on God’s call.
This conversation will inspire, challenge, and equip you to live out your own calling with courage and faith. Don’t miss this powerful start to Season 3—because, as Ross says, “A job is what you’re paid for; a calling is what you’re made for.”
🎙️ Tune in now to be transformed by the wisdom and faith of Ross Winchester.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts Rohan Das and Gus Urban.
(00:13):
In this groundbreaking podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives of individuals whose
journey has been profoundly transformed by their faith.
From the trial of adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore real stories, real
people whose encounter with God has reshaped their existence.
Join us as we embark on a candid and enlightening journey where authenticity meets spirituality
(00:35):
every Friday on Real Talk Friday, part of Logan City Christian Church.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Real Talk Friday, Season 3.
And I'm excited to be here with my co-host, Gus.
Hey everyone, welcome.
Thanks for joining us again.
Yeah, and as usual, we love to bring new people in this show and people with great testimony.
(00:57):
And we have a special guest and I'll let Gus do the introduction.
Yeah, today we've got a very important guest.
We just want to welcome Ross Winchester.
Thank you for making the time to come on our show.
Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
Appreciate it.
Great, Ross.
Well, I did a bit of research in your background, your story, and I was just fascinated by the
(01:25):
things that you've achieved and God's helped you achieve these things.
And we just want to dive right into it because I think it's such a great story.
So I feel like the first thing I would like to talk about is you telling us a bit of your
journey.
Let's start from your childhood and what inspired you to be where you are right now.
(01:45):
Okay, well, I came to the Lord when I was about 18.
I was involved in motorbike groups and the drug scene, the party scene, all that rubbish
and went to a tent crusade.
I was invited to a tent crusade by a co-worker of mine.
And so I went there and for the first time I really heard the gospel.
(02:07):
And when the appeal was given, I ran down to the front, knocking chairs away and just
prayed my way through to salvation.
And then as they were just talking to me, an old missionary, Pastor T.L. Evans came
up to me and he'd been a missionary in India for 30 years, part of New Guinea for 10 years
and just an amazing man of God.
(02:29):
And he came up to me, shook me by the hand, this old Welsh missionary and his inimitable
voice said, you never know son, you might be a preacher one day.
And when he said that, something like resonated in his spirit like, yes.
Now you've got to understand, I didn't know what being a Christian was and he, you know,
I'm a spawner, yes, I'm going to be a preacher.
(02:52):
So it was like God saved me, separated me and there was, I guess, a missionary impartation
right then.
And right from that moment, I just knew that I wanted to serve God.
I didn't know what that meant.
But in our church that we attended, every time a missionary speaker came, I'd say, that's
(03:14):
what I want to be.
I want to be a pioneer missionary.
Yeah, so time went on and then was on staff at my church and then eventually went to Bible
College and in the last year of college, I was what they call the president of the missions
fellowship there.
(03:35):
And so we were bemoaning the fact that no one was going to the field as missionaries.
In the last 10 years, no graduates had gone to the field.
And our job as a missions committee was to like inspire the students to get involved
in missions and there was even pushback like, you know, we've got enough to do our own
backyard.
(03:55):
Yeah, yes, and you always will do.
But anyway, so we're sitting around and I said, well, I've got an idea.
Why don't we all right now just decide we're all going to be missionaries, our six committee
members.
And I was, whoa, you know, you're going to have the call of God.
I said, have you read Matthew 28 lately?
You know, Jesus has told us to go and make disciples of all nations.
(04:16):
Let's do it.
Yeah.
And so to me, that was, I mean, I was preparing up to that point, but that kind of flipped
the switch for me in a real way.
And also another young lady who eventually went to South Africa.
And because others waiting for angels and visitations, it's really just down to obedience.
And then at the end of my last year, we're having this big missions committee, missions
(04:41):
conference.
And because I was the president, I got to speak the first night and previous night I
was preparing and I'm thinking this is my last hurrah.
You know, this is my last chance to really challenge these guys about missions.
Yeah.
So I'm preparing this message very diligently, the great commission or the great omission.
And I'm going to lead them with a bit of guilt, you know, and, and as I'm furiously preparing,
(05:09):
God spoke to me and I don't say that lightly because this may be the only time in my whole
life that I've actually heard the audible voice of God in the sense that I would turn
around to see who was there.
Would you like to know what he said?
Absolutely.
Pleased.
He said, and what about you?
Wow.
And I was like, what about me?
(05:32):
You know, I've been preparing my life for years, trying to knock down doors, open, you
know, find opportunities and, you know, nothing.
And then I realised I was an idiot that God had actually said, green light, it's time
for you to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the next day I called our mission and said, you want to sign up?
You want to go to the field?
(05:54):
Where do you want to go?
China.
I said, you can't hardly get in as a tourist.
This is 1981.
Okay.
And I said, well, Burma.
That's even harder.
I said, well, mainland Asia, you know, but we're ready.
Yeah.
And I said, well, I just got a letter today from the superintendent of the Thailand Assemblies
of God appealing Australian missionaries to come and help.
(06:15):
And I said, we'll go.
Wow.
Where's Thailand?
It was almost like that, you know.
Yeah.
It just felt God was just rolling things out for us.
Yeah.
And we were moving with it.
Yeah.
And so I went back to our home church and they said, well, we want you to pioneer this
church up at Mount Tamborine.
I said, I just signed up to go to Thailand.
(06:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they said, well, you're going to need time to raise funds and visas and all that.
I said, all right, we'll do it for one year.
So we did that for one year.
It was a great experience.
And then the following year, 83, we moved to Thailand, which was very different as things
are done these days because we had never been to Thailand.
I never met a Thai person.
(06:58):
I'd never eaten a Thai meal.
I never knew anyone in Thailand.
So it was, you know, landing on the ground with my wife and two boys.
It was an adventure and we loved it.
Wow.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Going back to what you said, right at the start, you said how God saved you and then
(07:21):
separated you.
At that separating, you'd never be sitting here fulfilling the call of God on your life
today.
Sort of like a Daniel when he left and went into exile, there was that separation, I'm
not going to do just because I'm not in my homeland.
(07:44):
God is still real.
I'm not going to do what everyone else is doing.
I'm doing what God's called me to do.
And from what I sort of feel is that we see a lot of what you'd probably say, we get saved
and it's a wonderful experience, but sometimes people never get that separation of that conviction
(08:06):
of, okay, what I used to do, I can no longer do.
And making that choice would be very hard, but the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your
life I could imagine and the love of God, the experience of salvation would have overridden
what every temptation and all that sort of thing where not that temptation was never
(08:29):
there, but you were a new creation in Christ Jesus that the old has passed and the new
has come.
I just wanted to bring that up because when you said that, it just really resonated inside
of me of a separation, salvation and a separation.
(08:50):
And I don't think that should be unique to me because everyone when they're born again
are born for a purpose, for a mission.
Whether they recognise that, whether they're obedient to that, that's a whole other issue.
But yeah, we're all made for a special purpose in God's economy.
Absolutely.
And for people watching, yeah, I just want to put it out there that you probably feel
(09:14):
the call of God and you've had a great salvation experience.
Is there separation from your old life?
I guess that's really probably the determining factor for the rest of your Christian walk.
We can't mix lightness, light with darkness and we can't be Luke warm.
(09:36):
It's either one or the other sort of thing.
And this is the very reason why we have you as a missionary for over 40 years is because
of that separation that took place all those years ago.
And so yeah, I just sort of felt like, I don't know, that was just something that resonated
in me when you said that.
So sorry to sort of go back and not at all.
(09:59):
But yeah, no, that's beautiful.
That's amazing.
And that's what salvation is all about.
Yeah, we're saved for something.
Exactly.
From something.
From something.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Thank you for sharing that, Gus.
I think that's very insightful.
And there's a lot of listeners there that have questions when it comes to salvation.
(10:21):
I think this really helps to get a better understanding about it.
I like what you said.
You're either cold or hot.
There's no in-between.
Yeah.
And it's a biblical thing.
And thank you for that, Gus.
I think that was really great.
But coming back to your story, so you spent 40 years in Thailand and China.
(10:41):
Am I right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a long time.
And what were the challenges that you faced within that 40 years?
Because a lot of people, that's like a place that not a lot of people go to mission or
spend that much time in mission.
China as we know it, not friendly to Christian people.
(11:02):
Not the most welcoming.
Yes.
And much better, but still there might have been a lot of cultural differences.
Because I know because I lived in Kenya for a long time and my parents worked with churches
there.
And I know the kind of cultural barriers that come with that.
And it's difficult, very difficult to do mission work, especially when you're of a different
(11:25):
race.
Because we face that problem in Kenya.
What was it like for you?
Well, that's a big question.
The challenges, which there have been many and most of them were to do with me.
And I think it's like when you go to a new place, I think it's the role that you adopt
(11:48):
is very, very important.
Because sometimes we can adopt roles that are not really viable, that kind of actually
build walls instead of bridges.
So instead of going as a teacher, I've always tried to go as a learner.
Why?
Because whether you got degrees, whatever, you're a learner.
(12:08):
You go to a new country, you're like born again in that country, you're a baby, you're
learning, everything is different.
So if you go with the mentality, I've come to teach, that's not going to work well.
I mean, you may come there to teach and that will happen.
But your attitude, your role, I'm a learner, I want to learn how things work here, I want
(12:29):
to learn how people think, I want to learn how people behave, what they need.
So learner before teacher and also...
I've never heard that, sorry.
That's incredible.
It's so important.
So baseline.
Sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, no.
And also to be a trader rather than a seller.
(12:52):
You know, whether I come in, yeah, I've got something, here's my prepackaged program,
this is what I do.
This is my ministry, I'm going to sell it to you.
Right now I'm a trader, okay, tell me about what you guys are doing.
And there's an affinity that's established where it's not me trying to force something
on these people or this church or whatever, but you're being open and there's like a transactional
(13:16):
sort of relationship that you're having with people that's so much more important than
just trying to sell your product if you want to call it that.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
And the other one is to be a storyteller, not an accuser.
Because we can come into a culture and human nature is...
(13:38):
Our culture is our measuring rod, okay?
Everything we see, we measure it according to our culture.
But usually we measure it by our ideals and their actuals.
Yeah, okay.
This is what we believe, do we?
Yeah, but do we do it?
So that's their ideals in our culture, but we look at the actuals and their culture instead
(14:00):
of pointing the finger back at us and say, well, maybe we've got some things to learn.
Maybe we should start accusing our culture before we start doing it with them.
They may be saying, why are you guys so independent?
You don't do community.
Why are you so materialistic?
And we don't see them as sins, but that's life in the Western world.
(14:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Independent, materialistic, we want stuff.
Where we look at them, why did they...
They seem to be not telling the truth so much.
Well, they did that because they didn't want to hurt your feelings.
And there's all this kind of stuff that...
But if you come as more of a storyteller, and you're exchanging your stories back home
(14:42):
and finding out their stories there, I think the way you land is very, very important.
Very true, yeah.
So you land in a certain way and adopt certain roles.
They're hard to shake if you do it the wrong way.
Yeah.
So how did you come to that understanding?
Did you initially go there as a learner, as you said, or did you sort of go there and
(15:06):
go, oh, wait, this isn't working?
And then...
Yeah, I guess it was the latter.
I went, well, I've got something for these guys.
I think I've got something I can share with them.
And then the longer I was there, I realised, if I don't really understand these people,
how can I minister to them?
(15:27):
And the only way to understand them is to adopt that role of a learner rather than the
one that has all the answers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly right.
Sort of...
I don't know how to say it, but being as they are sort of thing.
Like trying to, I guess you had to learn the language.
(15:49):
Yes.
Like how hard would that have been?
For me it'd be impossible.
Well, it was...
Any language is difficult that you've got to learn.
They say, what's the hardest language?
Well, the one you have to learn is the hardest language.
And it depends who you are, what your hardest language is.
People might say, oh, for you Chinese, it's probably hard.
(16:11):
Yeah, it's very hard.
But for a Korean person, no, piece of cake.
For me, learning Spanish, French, because there's similarities.
Yes.
So it depends, you know, who you are, what you've got to learn.
But when I first arrived there, an old missionary came to me and said, Ross, you cannot learn
language without learning culture.
(16:32):
And you cannot learn culture without learning language.
And that's so true because they're so intertwined and language kind of reflects the people's
worldview.
And so to get a real base understanding of who these people are and what they believe
and why they do things without really learning the language, it's very, very difficult, if
(16:54):
not impossible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's...
How long would you say that took?
How long was that process when you actually started to understand both language and culture,
say like in Thailand, where you felt like you could actually be effective now?
Well, we spent the first 80 months in Bangkok.
(17:16):
We were involved in ministry, but also heavily involved in language school.
And then we moved down to the south of Thailand and I had a evangelistic outreach team.
We had a big tent.
We'd go around and do evangelistic outreaches, plant churches, and no one could speak English.
Oh, wow.
In that whole area, we were the only foreigners.
(17:36):
Yeah.
We were the only English speakers.
So it was immersion.
Yeah, yeah.
But having the theoretical foundation was very important, but then to have the practical.
So at that end of that first three-year term, I was relatively fluent.
(17:57):
Yeah.
I mean, you get more fluent the longer you stay there, of course.
That seems like a hard slog.
Yeah.
Three years.
That really does.
Yeah, but it's a wonderful, interesting language.
Yeah, cool, cool, cool.
Plus, there's a grace on your life to do it, like God's gift in your life and for your
(18:17):
life as well.
Obviously, if he calls someone to go do something, he's going to provide everything that they
need, especially enablement, grace.
So yeah, obviously, that was a big factor as well.
Because I'm listening to this and trying to picture myself in it.
(18:39):
I'm like, no, I can't do that.
I'm flat out with English.
So I speak Australian, and I'm not fluent in English yet.
Well, when we landed in China, it was interesting because my first passion for mission was China.
Right from the early days, where do you want to go?
(19:00):
China.
Yeah, OK.
I was just fascinated with China.
But that didn't happen because we landed, as I said, in Thailand.
We were there for 11 years.
And the longer we were there, I thought, well, this is, I don't know what China was all about.
This is obviously where we were supposed to be.
And then we went back to Australia to do some missionary training with the program there.
(19:22):
And then when we arrived in China to live, I thought, it's 30 years since God spoke to
me about China.
Wow.
That was a long time ago.
And obviously, God had a bit to do in my life to prepare me.
I mean, he could have sent me to China right off day one.
(19:43):
But I'd be like that messenger who ran from the battle to the king.
What's the message?
No idea.
Yeah.
I'm here, but I don't know what to say.
I want to be like that.
So God had a lot of work through the good, the bad, the ugly, and got there.
And then we were there for 20 years in China.
And then over the last three, four years, well, four years ago, we relocated back to
(20:06):
Thailand.
And now we're working also in Myanmar, formerly called Burma in Karen state, which was another
one, which was my second choice.
That's right.
It's interesting how God kind of made it happen, but certainly not according to my timeline,
but definitely according to his.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
No, that's amazing.
(20:27):
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I think that's, it's true what you said about language and culture.
And I agree with you.
I think they're so closely linked that it's so important to understand both.
Yes.
And that's the same thing when I was in Kenya, I had to understand both.
Yeah.
(20:47):
Because they used to do things that I never understood.
I'm like, why is it done this way?
But then you quickly understand, or there are certain phrases they used to use.
And I would be like, why would you say that?
And they're just like, because it's a very cultural thing.
And someone put it this way to me when I was in Kenya.
They used to be, I went to see a family in Kenya and they were out in the villages and
(21:13):
everything.
And I was doing a mission trip and I sat down with the family and they were cooking in a
certain way.
And I questioned it.
I'm like, why are you doing that?
Why would you do it?
There's so much easier way to do these things coming from a city, a very city mentality.
But then the guy that I was sitting with, he told me, oh, my grandmother did it this
(21:38):
way.
That's why we do it this way.
So I asked the mother about why you start a fire this way.
They usually use coal to make their food.
So they were doing it in a very weird way.
For me, if I want to burn coal, I would just take a bunch of newspapers, twigs, put it
there, burn and put some coal on top.
(21:59):
But they were doing it in a much difficult way.
And I just questioned them, like, surely there's an easier way.
But he said my grandmother used to do it and it's become like kind of like something within
the family.
Then I asked the mother and the mother said, we do it this way because we used to live
in like a swampy area.
There was no dry wood.
(22:19):
There was nothing.
So I quickly understand that it's not a culture there.
That's because they were trying to use the resources they had within that area.
That became kind of a culture.
Like, this is now how we do it.
Although there's dry wood twigs everywhere that they could use to do this, but they still
use a harder way.
(22:40):
So that was very interesting.
I thought I would put it in because I felt like that's interesting.
We need to understand because we're very quick to judge, oh, this is not the right way.
There's a reason behind everything.
And I thank you for learning that culture.
The interesting thing that I found while I was reading, I think I was reading an article
that was on you on the internet and you talked about the Jesus leadership model.
(23:05):
Am I right about that?
You spoke about that saying, I'll read it out, Jesus gave responsibility and authority
and then saw feedback.
And that was something that you said.
And I felt that was very interesting and I wanted to talk more on that.
Or basically talk about the leadership models that you use because it's very important to...
(23:28):
It's a different world out there, especially when it comes to China and Thailand, because
not many people go into that area of mission.
And I feel like God has brought a lot of people from Thailand, from China into Australia,
and we're trying to reach out to them, but we just cannot because first of all, we don't
understand the culture.
And we tried to put this Western mentality into preaching to them that's not really effective,
(23:53):
it's not really working.
So I would like you to talk more about that leadership kind of role and how to effectively
minister to these people because I think a lot of people would appreciate that.
Yeah.
Well, the first thing is Jesus model was he gave responsibility.
He said, okay, when you go out, preach the gospel of the kingdom, tell them the kingdom
(24:14):
of God is near, had a responsibility.
And if we do, and he didn't just do that, but sometimes that's the only thing we do,
here's a job, do it.
And you don't create leaders like that, you create followers.
And so as well as responsibility, you have to give authority.
That's what Jesus, okay, as you go, I'm giving you authority over evil spirits, giving you
(24:37):
authority to heal the sick.
And that's what they did.
But again, if that's all you do, then you create leaders, but they may not be the best
leaders because you've actually abdicated your responsibility to mentor them.
You know, you just say his job is authority, go and do it.
Yeah.
So there's the three things you give a responsibility like Jesus did, go and preach the gospel,
(25:01):
give them authority over stuff.
And then they came back, reported, and he gave them feedback.
They came back and I said, wow, even the demons are subject to us.
Yeah.
And Jesus is, hey, just chill.
Chill.
Yeah.
So don't be, don't rejoice because demons are subject to you.
Rejoice because your names are written in the book of life.
(25:24):
So he's using a Hebrew literary form here where you take first and second priority and
you put them as opposites.
In other words, you know, he's not really saying don't rejoice because demons are subject
to you.
He says in comparison, don't even think about that.
Yeah.
(25:45):
This is the important thing.
It's written in the book of life.
Yeah.
It's like when Jesus said, if you're going to be my disciple, you can't, if you don't
hate your mother or father, or did he really want us to hate our mother or father?
No.
We're told to honor our mother and father, but he's just taking priority one, priority
two and put them like in opposition to each other.
Your love for your family should look like hate when it's compared to your love for me.
(26:09):
Exactly.
Or he saw, have I hated, Jacob have I loved.
He didn't hate.
He created a nation out of it.
Exactly.
But Jacob was chosen one.
Yep.
So this is what Jesus is just trying to give feedback.
So they become better leaders.
Yeah.
Make sense?
So interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(26:30):
Very, very good.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
I love what you said there.
I've never, I think I read about the Jesus model, the leadership model, but that was
a while ago.
I don't know, haven't really, this was well explained.
What you said here is very well explained.
And I think it kind of puts it in a nutshell and how it's very important because I think
(26:51):
Jesus was the greatest leader alive.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And we have, we can learn so much with it.
And I just want to, I'm very keen to know how that leadership model went about when
you were doing your missions in China and Thailand.
What were like the challenges that you face and what were, what were the kind of blessing
(27:13):
that you saw happening with that kind of leadership?
Because I'm not sure whether they're very open to those kinds of leadership models or
it's because it might be the culture playing a role in that.
I'm keen to know how did it work out then?
Well, Thailand particularly where we're working now is very hierarchical structure of leadership
(27:34):
and society.
And we talk about servant leadership a lot in our context, whereas in Thailand you're
either a servant or a leader, you can't be both.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's the challenge.
Yeah.
And you have to work within the system, the hierarchical system, because the themes of
(27:57):
like service and humility, they're there.
You don't have to import new themes or concepts.
But you just have to try and build that into a biblical framework for people.
And it's a lot of it's about example.
It's not about telling people what to do.
And yeah, so that's a very real challenge.
(28:19):
Yeah, I could imagine.
Yeah.
Yeah, like for me, I'm hearing all this for the first time and I'm a bit quiet because
I'm just trying to process everything.
Like that's incredible what you're saying.
Yeah, I'm going to be watching this and then going over it and then looking into it.
(28:40):
What you said there, it's like, you know, it's either you're a servant or a leader,
you can't be both.
Yeah.
That really caught me.
I'm like, that's so true.
Even in the Indian culture that I see, that is exactly what it is.
Like you can either be a leader or a servant, but you cannot be both.
And when you introduce that into the culture or society, I think there'll be a lot of people
(29:04):
reluctant to listen to that.
Like, no, no, no, help me out of it because I don't want to be both.
Yeah.
I can't be a servant to my servant.
And it's sort of like in Australian culture, it's like, sure, you'll be my boss and I respect
you.
But if you do something wrong to me, I'm going to let you have it.
You know what I mean?
Like typical Australian, that's how it is.
(29:27):
But, I mean, cultures play a huge part.
How we share the gospel, establish churches and leadership and that.
It's all about context.
Oh, unbelievable.
And like we're talking about servant leadership.
It's not like how did Jesus, Jesus never wrote a book or held a seminar on servant leadership.
(29:49):
He washed feet.
Exactly.
So there's the example.
He practically did it.
But I think it's more than for us to, it's more than just, okay, I'm willing to do the
menial job to you.
Can I get a cup of coffee?
I'm your servant, you know, but I'm your leader too.
It's much more than that.
(30:09):
We use the terms like transactional and transformational leadership.
Right.
So transactional is, okay, I'm the leader and this is my goal and I want you to help
me with my goal.
And if you do that, I'll give you a pat on the back and I'll recognise you in front of
people.
So there's kind of a transactional nature to the leadership, which is common in Asia
(30:34):
particularly.
Okay.
But the transformational, it's okay.
I want you to reach your full potential.
You've got a gift on your life and maybe I need some stuff done here and maybe you could
do it well, but I could see you really doing something wonderful here.
So that's that, you know, transformational leadership is wanting the best for the other
(30:56):
person, not just wanting to use the other person to achieve your goals.
And that's what Jesus did too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, I can sum it up by saying love, that shows a lot of love.
Yeah.
Transformational.
That's just amazing.
When you go to another country, another culture, you know, you have to do it in a loving way
(31:18):
and sometimes we can be so authoritative, saying like, this is, you know, this is the
way, the truth and the lie.
You must follow it.
It's the word of God you have to do and say.
I don't care what you've been, you know, reading your entire life and what your culture is
all about, but this is the right way.
Essentially that's true, but we're not doing it the right way.
We're not showing love because we need to be respectful.
(31:42):
We need to like show them exactly what Jesus did.
Jesus didn't come and just, you know, boast authority everywhere.
He was a very humble man and he did his ministry in a very humble way and very respectful way.
You know, he was stoned and he had to go out of, he didn't stay there and say, hey, you
know, I'm being stoned.
Why are you stoning me?
Or like, you know, he could have done so many things.
(32:04):
He could have called, you know, the angels to come and fight a battle, but he did not.
He just slipped away and went and said, I'll pray for you.
Yeah.
And it can be challenging when you do mission work like this.
Wow, that's really good.
Well, a hundred percent.
And when you go to a new culture, you'll make a lot of mistakes.
(32:24):
It's unavoidable.
You're going to make mistakes, but your attitude in that, like you're saying, love and grace,
you'll get a lot of forgiveness.
You'll get a lot of forgiveness.
But if you go in like arrogantly, yeah, they may not even say anything to you, but you're
done.
No, that's amazing.
(32:45):
So we'll come to the present times now because I know you've been doing missions a lot, but
recently in the recent past, what has been like, what's got put in your heart and what's
your focus in?
Is it still mission work in Thailand or do you want to like do more work within Australia
or what is it?
I just...
(33:05):
Well, in just over a week, we're back in Thailand, Northern Thailand, where we work with leadership
development amongst the Thai ethnic churches, the Karen churches, Hmong, Lahu churches,
and God's given us great favour in that space.
Two or three years ago, we became aware of what was happening in Karen state just across
(33:27):
the border from us into Myanmar, formerly called Burma.
And I heard about the atrocities that were being committed there by their own government
bombing not just the Karen, but probably all the minorities, but the one that we were aware
of in Karen state, bombing the villages, burning their crops, Burmese troops coming in, firing
(33:50):
on non-combatants, rape, torture, murder, women and children.
They're forced to live in the jungle and holes in the ground and caves and with nothing,
you know, and I thought, wow, we've got to go and see.
So loaded up our truck with provisions and went to the border and met our Karen friends,
got on a boat couple of hours up the river and into the war zone in Karen state.
(34:13):
And just the things you see there, the images that stay with you.
Oh, can't unsee.
No.
And a young boy, 16, M16, patrolling the perimeter of the village looking for ground troops and
who should live like that?
You know, yeah, just horrific, horrific things happening.
And I said to Don and when we got back, I said, you know, we're not equipped for this.
(34:36):
We're not trained with no experience, but we've got to do something.
So we just started working with our Karen friends and raising funds to take in provisions
with food, rice, tarps or temporary shelters, water filtration device, whatever they needed
to take in.
Beautiful.
So our role was more raising funds, raising awareness, raising partners so we could just
(34:57):
continue to do that.
And we've been doing that for a couple of years and we're unfortunately still having
to do it because it's just continuing all the time.
And so they're more the frontline guys.
Don't get the idea that I'm like Indiana Jones with the machete in the jungle.
No, that's not me.
But I do go in from time to time.
(35:18):
We meet them and to put it in perspective for me, like one time we met like 100 people
that came over, met them on the border.
Another time, another village walk 12 hours through the jungle, not through the jogging
track, through the jungle, through the jungle to just to pick up the supplies.
And they've got a 20 kilo rice sack.
(35:41):
It's going to take them longer to get back.
And just the desperation, but the appreciation that they have for just anyone helping them
in their struggle.
And so, you know, in our culture, you know, excuse me, I had that caramel latte on skinny
camel milk 10 minutes ago.
(36:01):
What do you mean you don't have a skinny camel?
And I want to see the manager now.
So yeah, that's perspective, perspective.
Twelve hours to get a bag of rice.
Yeah, no, no, because that's what I was thinking about is like if anyone here in Australia
or anywhere is struggling to appreciate life, maybe go on a mission trip or do something
(36:22):
like that.
It'll fix you up like that.
First world problems.
And they're real.
We've got issues, there's problems.
I get it, you know, but to get perspective to see what other people, they've got nothing,
nothing, nothing.
And just anything we can do to help them, they're just so appreciative.
So we work with a team there and we've got kind of a three phase strategy.
(36:44):
One is just help them survive, you know, so they don't die.
And then the second one is we take Bibles in, encourage and pray for people.
And the third, we're trying to develop that now where it's trying to impart the kingdom
of God is here, you know, you're in the jungle, you've got nothing but God's with you.
(37:05):
And get these guys, pray for the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and see the kingdom
of God manifest in that terrible situation.
Yeah.
And I think his spirit and his grace would be stronger in there than anywhere else.
So that's beautiful.
With that, if there are people watching this and they are drawn to that, I need to help.
(37:31):
God has put it on my heart to help.
What's the way that, is there a website, a number, an email address or whatever?
Yes, we can put that up and people can donate.
And there's tax deductibility status.
Awesome.
Yeah, or just regular.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, anything, everything helps.
Yeah, absolutely.
Every little thing helps.
Yeah, yeah.
(37:52):
Yeah.
And every prayer makes a difference.
Yeah.
So guys, if you're watching, wait till the end, we'll put all that up.
It'll be on your screen.
You can put it up now.
Yeah, it's up there.
It's up there.
If you can see it.
But we will have that on the comment section or it would be on the description of the video.
Yeah, we'll have it.
If you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, you can definitely go up to YouTube
(38:18):
and get these information from there.
Yeah, for sure.
But with that, I'd like to ask you a last question before we close, because unfortunately,
you've given us your time and I know you're such a busy man.
Being here has been such a true blessing for us.
For sure.
We planned on doing this maybe two or three weeks ago, but unfortunately, we couldn't
(38:41):
go ahead with the podcast, but we're so glad you are here now.
Thank you.
So I just want to know, because it's so important to raise next generation of leaders.
And we've seen that also as a challenge within our church.
It's something God's also been putting in many people's heart.
(39:04):
Having that next generation of leaders.
I would like to know what your organization or you personally do to raise these next generation
of leaders in either China or Thailand.
How does that happen?
I'm very keen to know.
Well, it's very organic.
(39:24):
Where God just connects us with people.
And to me, it's all about the one.
Yeah.
It's all about the one.
A lot of us look for the crowds.
And God's been teaching me that example.
When we were in China, I was walking around our neighborhood, just walking our dog.
(39:46):
And I saw something that was amazing.
It was like a miracle.
It was a Victory 1700cc twin motorcycle.
And I love motorbikes.
And I thought, wow, because where I live, you don't see that sort of stuff.
So I knocked on the door of a house, that the bike was outside, no one home.
(40:06):
A few days later, I'm walking past, I see the bike again, knock on the door, no one
home.
So then I started walking away and this car pulls up and a young man gets out.
And I'd seen him around, but I didn't know him.
Young Chinese man.
And then I said, hey, is this your motorcycle?
Yeah, we just got talking.
His name is Ben.
And anyway, he'd come over to my place for coffee and we go for a motorbike ride and
(40:30):
we're just making friendships.
And then finally, he says, Ross, what do you do here?
Which is kind of a dangerous question to answer when you're in China, because you don't know
who people are.
Anyway, I just said, well, we're here.
We're trying to make a difference.
We've got a community center.
We help the migrant families that come from the provinces into the city.
(40:52):
We have children's programs.
He said, I'd like to see that.
And one day we went and had a look at it and he was just blown away that what we were doing,
the slum area that was so horrible that wasn't really that far from where he was living.
Yeah.
But he wasn't even aware of it.
You know, oh, wow.
Yeah.
And and saw what we were doing and donated like books to our little library we had there
(41:13):
for the kids.
And every time we had a community day, he'd be there with drinks and snacks and all that
sort of thing.
And we haven't spoken about the gospel at all at this point.
And at that time, we were bringing Australian worship bands into China and doing kind of
semi secular events here and there.
But there was one we were doing.
It was more of a closed thing in a big reception room.
(41:35):
That was actual outreach.
Yeah.
So I said, Ben, would you like to come and hear the band?
He came along, loved it, you know.
And then a few weeks later, I said, Ben, I felt I could trust him by now.
I'm preaching at an underground church next week.
Would you like to come?
He said, yeah, I'll come.
So he came.
I gave the appeal and raised his hand, received Christ, baptized him in water and discipled
(41:58):
him and just now an amazing leader, amazing man of God, leading groups and seeing people
saved.
And I said to him, just as we're leaving, I said, Ben, if the only thing I achieved
here was to see you come to Christ and become the leader you are, 20 years, it's worth it.
(42:19):
Yeah, 100%.
That's the future of China.
To me, it's about the one that can make the difference to so many.
And the qualities you look for in people are so important because not everybody can be
a leader or wants to be.
That's amazing.
That's such an encouragement to me as well.
(42:43):
Not having to have a massive group or whatever, but to find that quality in maybe even just
one.
Yes.
Yeah.
It brings everything back to perspective.
Jesus could have had millions.
Yeah.
He chose to have.
Yes.
Yeah.
So thank you.
That's incredible.
That's incredible story.
Well, thank you, Ross, for being in the show.
(43:07):
It's great to hear that and towards the end, that was also something that's...
I really, whoever Ben is, I pray that whatever he's doing, I know Lord's happy with his work,
but just that protection over him and we'll be praying for Ben.
Yeah, sure.
And to our viewers too, keep Ben in prayer.
(43:29):
But thank you again for coming.
My pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Towards the end of the show, what we really like to do is for you to spend some time,
or you can look at the camera or you can talk to us, but yeah, just to tell our viewers
what's in your heart and just something for our viewers to take home with them or already
home.
Yeah.
(43:50):
Just to take out of the show and we like to end with you praying for our show and praying
for our viewers too.
That would be great.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, I would just like to exhort people, never give up.
Never give up serving God.
Never, when things are tough, like for me, I've been on the people that are saying to
(44:12):
me, Bryce, you're 71, you've been on the field 41 years, you've now got stage four
esophageal cancer and the doctors are saying they can't help you with anything and you're
going back to the field.
And why don't you just put your feet up?
And there's a couple of reasons.
One I say, well, the job is what you get paid for, the calling is what you're made for.
(44:35):
And I'm made to be a missionary.
Now, I don't use that term outside of church circles because people don't really understand
what that means.
I say I'm a hope dealer.
But the other reason is why this old war horse is still on the field is I'm waiting for young
(44:55):
people and older people of this generation to put their hand up and say, here are my
Lord, send me wherever, however, whatever, I want to be obedient and I want to be the
one that you can use.
Because we need a whole generation of just very ordinary people to go to be sown into
(45:18):
the nations as seed to make a difference, to do what God's called them to do.
So that's my passion to see that happen.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, Ross.
If you would like to pray for us, we would love to show.
Thank you, Lord.
You are the Lord of the harvest.
(45:39):
Hallelujah.
We thank you for your grace, your mercy, your peace that is given to us in abundance, Lord.
Thank you, Lord, that you've saved us and you've called us for purpose and meaning,
Lord.
Help us to find that Lord in you, Lord.
Not just personal fulfillment, but Lord, meaning that aligns with your kingdom directives in
(46:03):
our lives, Lord.
Use us all, Lord, to make a difference, to be salt and light and to change this world
that the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our God.
Yes.
Place our lives, our future, our testimony into your hands to do with us whatever you
would do to bring about your glory and bring about the kingdom expansion through the earth.
(46:27):
In Jesus' name we pray.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Can I just say we've had a lot of amazing guests on this show.
We've had so many great times doing podcasts, but this one's really hit home for me.
So thank you.
Yeah.
I bless you.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for the opportunity to share with your wonderful audience.
God bless you all.
(46:48):
Thank you.
Thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of Real Talk Friday.
That was Ross Winchester here.
We're so glad that he could come to this show and doing what he's doing with the battle,
health battle, physical battle that you're going through right now.
(47:09):
It's a true inspiration to me and to a lot of people that are watching this.
We thank you and thank you for being in the show.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
It's great and I feel like God's going to take you so far and there's healing and everything
because through you there's going to be so many people changed and I know it.
(47:31):
And that's something that God's telling me to tell you that.
You're going to change a lot of things and the battle that you're going through of health
is just, you know, the devil's not happy and he tries to put you down, but God's powerful
more than anything else.
I know you've heard that, but I just want to reassure you that he's got to and there's
(47:53):
nothing that can pull you down.
There's no weapon formed against me.
No prospect.
No prospect.
Yeah.
But with that, thank you for joining us and we'll see you in another episode of Real Talk
Friday.
God bless you.
As we conclude our episode of Real Talk Friday, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all our
listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey.
(48:16):
But our journey doesn't end here.
Join us every Friday as we continue to uncover the real stories of real people where authenticity
intersects with spirituality in profound ways.
Together we'll navigate the complexities of life, finding inspiration and hope in the
remarkable narratives shared within the walls of Logan City Christian Church.
(48:36):
Thank you for tuning in and until next time, may your faith journey be filled with grace,
understanding and the unwavering presence of God.
Stay tuned for more Real Talk every Friday on Real Talk Friday.
Welcome to Real Talk Friday with your hosts Rohan Das and Gus Urban.
(00:13):
In this groundbreaking podcast segment, we delve deep into the lives of individuals whose
journey has been profoundly transformed by their faith.
From the trial of adversity to the triumph of redemption, we explore real stories, real
people whose encounter with God has reshaped their existence.
Join us as we embark on a candid and enlightening journey where authenticity meets spirituality
(00:35):
every Friday on Real Talk Friday, part of Logan City Christian Church.
Hello and welcome to another episode of Real Talk Friday, Season 3.
And I'm excited to be here with my co-host, Gus.
Hey everyone, welcome.
Thanks for joining us again.
Yeah, and as usual, we love to bring new people in this show and people with great testimony.
(00:57):
And we have a special guest and I'll let Gus do the introduction.
Yeah, today we've got a very important guest.
We just want to welcome Ross Winchester.
Thank you for making the time to come on our show.
Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
Appreciate it.
Great, Ross.
Well, I did a bit of research in your background, your story, and I was just fascinated by the
(01:25):
things that you've achieved and God's helped you achieve these things.
And we just want to dive right into it because I think it's such a great story.
So I feel like the first thing I would like to talk about is you telling us a bit of your
journey.
Let's start from your childhood and what inspired you to be where you are right now.
(01:45):
Okay, well, I came to the Lord when I was about 18.
I was involved in motorbike groups and the drug scene, the party scene, all that rubbish
and went to a tent crusade.
I was invited to a tent crusade by a co-worker of mine.
And so I went there and for the first time I really heard the gospel.
(02:07):
And when the appeal was given, I ran down to the front, knocking chairs away and just
prayed my way through to salvation.
And then as they were just talking to me, an old missionary, Pastor T.L. Evans came
up to me and he'd been a missionary in India for 30 years, part of New Guinea for 10 years
and just an amazing man of God.
(02:29):
And he came up to me, shook me by the hand, this old Welsh missionary and his inimitable
voice said, you never know son, you might be a preacher one day.
And when he said that, something like resonated in his spirit like, yes.
Now you've got to understand, I didn't know what being a Christian was and he, you know,
I'm a spawner, yes, I'm going to be a preacher.
(02:52):
So it was like God saved me, separated me and there was, I guess, a missionary impartation
right then.
And right from that moment, I just knew that I wanted to serve God.
I didn't know what that meant.
But in our church that we attended, every time a missionary speaker came, I'd say, that's
(03:14):
what I want to be.
I want to be a pioneer missionary.
Yeah, so time went on and then was on staff at my church and then eventually went to Bible
College and in the last year of college, I was what they call the president of the missions
fellowship there.
(03:35):
And so we were bemoaning the fact that no one was going to the field as missionaries.
In the last 10 years, no graduates had gone to the field.
And our job as a missions committee was to like inspire the students to get involved
in missions and there was even pushback like, you know, we've got enough to do our own
backyard.
(03:55):
Yeah, yes, and you always will do.
But anyway, so we're sitting around and I said, well, I've got an idea.
Why don't we all right now just decide we're all going to be missionaries, our six committee
members.
And I was, whoa, you know, you're going to have the call of God.
I said, have you read Matthew 28 lately?
You know, Jesus has told us to go and make disciples of all nations.
(04:16):
Let's do it.
Yeah.
And so to me, that was, I mean, I was preparing up to that point, but that kind of flipped
the switch for me in a real way.
And also another young lady who eventually went to South Africa.
And because others waiting for angels and visitations, it's really just down to obedience.
And then at the end of my last year, we're having this big missions committee, missions
(04:41):
conference.
And because I was the president, I got to speak the first night and previous night I
was preparing and I'm thinking this is my last hurrah.
You know, this is my last chance to really challenge these guys about missions.
Yeah.
So I'm preparing this message very diligently, the great commission or the great omission.
And I'm going to lead them with a bit of guilt, you know, and, and as I'm furiously preparing,
(05:09):
God spoke to me and I don't say that lightly because this may be the only time in my whole
life that I've actually heard the audible voice of God in the sense that I would turn
around to see who was there.
Would you like to know what he said?
Absolutely.
Pleased.
He said, and what about you?
Wow.
And I was like, what about me?
(05:32):
You know, I've been preparing my life for years, trying to knock down doors, open, you
know, find opportunities and, you know, nothing.
And then I realised I was an idiot that God had actually said, green light, it's time
for you to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the next day I called our mission and said, you want to sign up?
You want to go to the field?
(05:54):
Where do you want to go?
China.
I said, you can't hardly get in as a tourist.
This is 1981.
Okay.
And I said, well, Burma.
That's even harder.
I said, well, mainland Asia, you know, but we're ready.
Yeah.
And I said, well, I just got a letter today from the superintendent of the Thailand Assemblies
of God appealing Australian missionaries to come and help.
(06:15):
And I said, we'll go.
Wow.
Where's Thailand?
It was almost like that, you know.
Yeah.
It just felt God was just rolling things out for us.
Yeah.
And we were moving with it.
Yeah.
And so I went back to our home church and they said, well, we want you to pioneer this
church up at Mount Tamborine.
I said, I just signed up to go to Thailand.
(06:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they said, well, you're going to need time to raise funds and visas and all that.
I said, all right, we'll do it for one year.
So we did that for one year.
It was a great experience.
And then the following year, 83, we moved to Thailand, which was very different as things
are done these days because we had never been to Thailand.
I never met a Thai person.
(06:58):
I'd never eaten a Thai meal.
I never knew anyone in Thailand.
So it was, you know, landing on the ground with my wife and two boys.
It was an adventure and we loved it.
Wow.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Going back to what you said, right at the start, you said how God saved you and then
(07:21):
separated you.
At that separating, you'd never be sitting here fulfilling the call of God on your life
today.
Sort of like a Daniel when he left and went into exile, there was that separation, I'm
not going to do just because I'm not in my homeland.
(07:44):
God is still real.
I'm not going to do what everyone else is doing.
I'm doing what God's called me to do.
And from what I sort of feel is that we see a lot of what you'd probably say, we get saved
and it's a wonderful experience, but sometimes people never get that separation of that conviction
(08:06):
of, okay, what I used to do, I can no longer do.
And making that choice would be very hard, but the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your
life I could imagine and the love of God, the experience of salvation would have overridden
what every temptation and all that sort of thing where not that temptation was never
(08:29):
there, but you were a new creation in Christ Jesus that the old has passed and the new
has come.
I just wanted to bring that up because when you said that, it just really resonated inside
of me of a separation, salvation and a separation.
(08:50):
And I don't think that should be unique to me because everyone when they're born again
are born for a purpose, for a mission.
Whether they recognise that, whether they're obedient to that, that's a whole other issue.
But yeah, we're all made for a special purpose in God's economy.
Absolutely.
And for people watching, yeah, I just want to put it out there that you probably feel
(09:14):
the call of God and you've had a great salvation experience.
Is there separation from your old life?
I guess that's really probably the determining factor for the rest of your Christian walk.
We can't mix lightness, light with darkness and we can't be Luke warm.
(09:36):
It's either one or the other sort of thing.
And this is the very reason why we have you as a missionary for over 40 years is because
of that separation that took place all those years ago.
And so yeah, I just sort of felt like, I don't know, that was just something that resonated
in me when you said that.
So sorry to sort of go back and not at all.
(09:59):
But yeah, no, that's beautiful.
That's amazing.
And that's what salvation is all about.
Yeah, we're saved for something.
Exactly.
From something.
From something.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Thank you for sharing that, Gus.
I think that's very insightful.
And there's a lot of listeners there that have questions when it comes to salvation.
(10:21):
I think this really helps to get a better understanding about it.
I like what you said.
You're either cold or hot.
There's no in-between.
Yeah.
And it's a biblical thing.
And thank you for that, Gus.
I think that was really great.
But coming back to your story, so you spent 40 years in Thailand and China.
(10:41):
Am I right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a long time.
And what were the challenges that you faced within that 40 years?
Because a lot of people, that's like a place that not a lot of people go to mission or
spend that much time in mission.
China as we know it, not friendly to Christian people.
(11:02):
Not the most welcoming.
Yes.
And much better, but still there might have been a lot of cultural differences.
Because I know because I lived in Kenya for a long time and my parents worked with churches
there.
And I know the kind of cultural barriers that come with that.
And it's difficult, very difficult to do mission work, especially when you're of a different
(11:25):
race.
Because we face that problem in Kenya.
What was it like for you?
Well, that's a big question.
The challenges, which there have been many and most of them were to do with me.
And I think it's like when you go to a new place, I think it's the role that you adopt
(11:48):
is very, very important.
Because sometimes we can adopt roles that are not really viable, that kind of actually
build walls instead of bridges.
So instead of going as a teacher, I've always tried to go as a learner.
Why?
Because whether you got degrees, whatever, you're a learner.
(12:08):
You go to a new country, you're like born again in that country, you're a baby, you're
learning, everything is different.
So if you go with the mentality, I've come to teach, that's not going to work well.
I mean, you may come there to teach and that will happen.
But your attitude, your role, I'm a learner, I want to learn how things work here, I want
(12:29):
to learn how people think, I want to learn how people behave, what they need.
So learner before teacher and also...
I've never heard that, sorry.
That's incredible.
It's so important.
So baseline.
Sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, no.
And also to be a trader rather than a seller.
(12:52):
You know, whether I come in, yeah, I've got something, here's my prepackaged program,
this is what I do.
This is my ministry, I'm going to sell it to you.
Right now I'm a trader, okay, tell me about what you guys are doing.
And there's an affinity that's established where it's not me trying to force something
on these people or this church or whatever, but you're being open and there's like a transactional
(13:16):
sort of relationship that you're having with people that's so much more important than
just trying to sell your product if you want to call it that.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah, exactly right.
And the other one is to be a storyteller, not an accuser.
Because we can come into a culture and human nature is...
(13:38):
Our culture is our measuring rod, okay?
Everything we see, we measure it according to our culture.
But usually we measure it by our ideals and their actuals.
Yeah, okay.
This is what we believe, do we?
Yeah, but do we do it?
So that's their ideals in our culture, but we look at the actuals and their culture instead
(14:00):
of pointing the finger back at us and say, well, maybe we've got some things to learn.
Maybe we should start accusing our culture before we start doing it with them.
They may be saying, why are you guys so independent?
You don't do community.
Why are you so materialistic?
And we don't see them as sins, but that's life in the Western world.
(14:20):
Yeah, exactly.
Independent, materialistic, we want stuff.
Where we look at them, why did they...
They seem to be not telling the truth so much.
Well, they did that because they didn't want to hurt your feelings.
And there's all this kind of stuff that...
But if you come as more of a storyteller, and you're exchanging your stories back home
(14:42):
and finding out their stories there, I think the way you land is very, very important.
Very true, yeah.
So you land in a certain way and adopt certain roles.
They're hard to shake if you do it the wrong way.
Yeah.
So how did you come to that understanding?
Did you initially go there as a learner, as you said, or did you sort of go there and
(15:06):
go, oh, wait, this isn't working?
And then...
Yeah, I guess it was the latter.
I went, well, I've got something for these guys.
I think I've got something I can share with them.
And then the longer I was there, I realised, if I don't really understand these people,
how can I minister to them?
(15:27):
And the only way to understand them is to adopt that role of a learner rather than the
one that has all the answers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly right.
Sort of...
I don't know how to say it, but being as they are sort of thing.
Like trying to, I guess you had to learn the language.
(15:49):
Yes.
Like how hard would that have been?
For me it'd be impossible.
Well, it was...
Any language is difficult that you've got to learn.
They say, what's the hardest language?
Well, the one you have to learn is the hardest language.
And it depends who you are, what your hardest language is.
People might say, oh, for you Chinese, it's probably hard.
(16:11):
Yeah, it's very hard.
But for a Korean person, no, piece of cake.
For me, learning Spanish, French, because there's similarities.
Yes.
So it depends, you know, who you are, what you've got to learn.
But when I first arrived there, an old missionary came to me and said, Ross, you cannot learn
language without learning culture.
(16:32):
And you cannot learn culture without learning language.
And that's so true because they're so intertwined and language kind of reflects the people's
worldview.
And so to get a real base understanding of who these people are and what they believe
and why they do things without really learning the language, it's very, very difficult, if
(16:54):
not impossible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's...
How long would you say that took?
How long was that process when you actually started to understand both language and culture,
say like in Thailand, where you felt like you could actually be effective now?
Well, we spent the first 80 months in Bangkok.
(17:16):
We were involved in ministry, but also heavily involved in language school.
And then we moved down to the south of Thailand and I had a evangelistic outreach team.
We had a big tent.
We'd go around and do evangelistic outreaches, plant churches, and no one could speak English.
Oh, wow.
In that whole area, we were the only foreigners.
(17:36):
Yeah.
We were the only English speakers.
So it was immersion.
Yeah, yeah.
But having the theoretical foundation was very important, but then to have the practical.
So at that end of that first three-year term, I was relatively fluent.
(17:57):
Yeah.
I mean, you get more fluent the longer you stay there, of course.
That seems like a hard slog.
Yeah.
Three years.
That really does.
Yeah, but it's a wonderful, interesting language.
Yeah, cool, cool, cool.
Plus, there's a grace on your life to do it, like God's gift in your life and for your
(18:17):
life as well.
Obviously, if he calls someone to go do something, he's going to provide everything that they
need, especially enablement, grace.
So yeah, obviously, that was a big factor as well.
Because I'm listening to this and trying to picture myself in it.
(18:39):
I'm like, no, I can't do that.
I'm flat out with English.
So I speak Australian, and I'm not fluent in English yet.
Well, when we landed in China, it was interesting because my first passion for mission was China.
Right from the early days, where do you want to go?
(19:00):
China.
Yeah, OK.
I was just fascinated with China.
But that didn't happen because we landed, as I said, in Thailand.
We were there for 11 years.
And the longer we were there, I thought, well, this is, I don't know what China was all about.
This is obviously where we were supposed to be.
And then we went back to Australia to do some missionary training with the program there.
(19:22):
And then when we arrived in China to live, I thought, it's 30 years since God spoke to
me about China.
Wow.
That was a long time ago.
And obviously, God had a bit to do in my life to prepare me.
I mean, he could have sent me to China right off day one.
(19:43):
But I'd be like that messenger who ran from the battle to the king.
What's the message?
No idea.
Yeah.
I'm here, but I don't know what to say.
I want to be like that.
So God had a lot of work through the good, the bad, the ugly, and got there.
And then we were there for 20 years in China.
And then over the last three, four years, well, four years ago, we relocated back to
(20:06):
Thailand.
And now we're working also in Myanmar, formerly called Burma in Karen state, which was another
one, which was my second choice.
That's right.
It's interesting how God kind of made it happen, but certainly not according to my timeline,
but definitely according to his.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
No, that's amazing.
(20:27):
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I think that's, it's true what you said about language and culture.
And I agree with you.
I think they're so closely linked that it's so important to understand both.
Yes.
And that's the same thing when I was in Kenya, I had to understand both.
Yeah.
(20:47):
Because they used to do things that I never understood.
I'm like, why is it done this way?
But then you quickly understand, or there are certain phrases they used to use.
And I would be like, why would you say that?
And they're just like, because it's a very cultural thing.
And someone put it this way to me when I was in Kenya.
They used to be, I went to see a family in Kenya and they were out in the villages and
(21:13):
everything.
And I was doing a mission trip and I sat down with the family and they were cooking in a
certain way.
And I questioned it.
I'm like, why are you doing that?
Why would you do it?
There's so much easier way to do these things coming from a city, a very city mentality.
But then the guy that I was sitting with, he told me, oh, my grandmother did it this
(21:38):
way.
That's why we do it this way.
So I asked the mother about why you start a fire this way.
They usually use coal to make their food.
So they were doing it in a very weird way.
For me, if I want to burn coal, I would just take a bunch of newspapers, twigs, put it
there, burn and put some coal on top.
(21:59):
But they were doing it in a much difficult way.
And I just questioned them, like, surely there's an easier way.
But he said my grandmother used to do it and it's become like kind of like something within
the family.
Then I asked the mother and the mother said, we do it this way because we used to live
in like a swampy area.
There was no dry wood.
(22:19):
There was nothing.
So I quickly understand that it's not a culture there.
That's because they were trying to use the resources they had within that area.
That became kind of a culture.
Like, this is now how we do it.
Although there's dry wood twigs everywhere that they could use to do this, but they still
use a harder way.
(22:40):
So that was very interesting.
I thought I would put it in because I felt like that's interesting.
We need to understand because we're very quick to judge, oh, this is not the right way.
There's a reason behind everything.
And I thank you for learning that culture.
The interesting thing that I found while I was reading, I think I was reading an article
that was on you on the internet and you talked about the Jesus leadership model.
(23:05):
Am I right about that?
You spoke about that saying, I'll read it out, Jesus gave responsibility and authority
and then saw feedback.
And that was something that you said.
And I felt that was very interesting and I wanted to talk more on that.
Or basically talk about the leadership models that you use because it's very important to...
(23:28):
It's a different world out there, especially when it comes to China and Thailand, because
not many people go into that area of mission.
And I feel like God has brought a lot of people from Thailand, from China into Australia,
and we're trying to reach out to them, but we just cannot because first of all, we don't
understand the culture.
And we tried to put this Western mentality into preaching to them that's not really effective,
(23:53):
it's not really working.
So I would like you to talk more about that leadership kind of role and how to effectively
minister to these people because I think a lot of people would appreciate that.
Yeah.
Well, the first thing is Jesus model was he gave responsibility.
He said, okay, when you go out, preach the gospel of the kingdom, tell them the kingdom
(24:14):
of God is near, had a responsibility.
And if we do, and he didn't just do that, but sometimes that's the only thing we do,
here's a job, do it.
And you don't create leaders like that, you create followers.
And so as well as responsibility, you have to give authority.
That's what Jesus, okay, as you go, I'm giving you authority over evil spirits, giving you
(24:37):
authority to heal the sick.
And that's what they did.
But again, if that's all you do, then you create leaders, but they may not be the best
leaders because you've actually abdicated your responsibility to mentor them.
You know, you just say his job is authority, go and do it.
Yeah.
So there's the three things you give a responsibility like Jesus did, go and preach the gospel,
(25:01):
give them authority over stuff.
And then they came back, reported, and he gave them feedback.
They came back and I said, wow, even the demons are subject to us.
Yeah.
And Jesus is, hey, just chill.
Chill.
Yeah.
So don't be, don't rejoice because demons are subject to you.
Rejoice because your names are written in the book of life.
(25:24):
So he's using a Hebrew literary form here where you take first and second priority and
you put them as opposites.
In other words, you know, he's not really saying don't rejoice because demons are subject
to you.
He says in comparison, don't even think about that.
Yeah.
(25:45):
This is the important thing.
It's written in the book of life.
Yeah.
It's like when Jesus said, if you're going to be my disciple, you can't, if you don't
hate your mother or father, or did he really want us to hate our mother or father?
No.
We're told to honor our mother and father, but he's just taking priority one, priority
two and put them like in opposition to each other.
Your love for your family should look like hate when it's compared to your love for me.
(26:09):
Exactly.
Or he saw, have I hated, Jacob have I loved.
He didn't hate.
He created a nation out of it.
Exactly.
But Jacob was chosen one.
Yep.
So this is what Jesus is just trying to give feedback.
So they become better leaders.
Yeah.
Make sense?
So interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(26:30):
Very, very good.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
I love what you said there.
I've never, I think I read about the Jesus model, the leadership model, but that was
a while ago.
I don't know, haven't really, this was well explained.
What you said here is very well explained.
And I think it kind of puts it in a nutshell and how it's very important because I think
(26:51):
Jesus was the greatest leader alive.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And we have, we can learn so much with it.
And I just want to, I'm very keen to know how that leadership model went about when
you were doing your missions in China and Thailand.
What were like the challenges that you face and what were, what were the kind of blessing
(27:13):
that you saw happening with that kind of leadership?
Because I'm not sure whether they're very open to those kinds of leadership models or
it's because it might be the culture playing a role in that.
I'm keen to know how did it work out then?
Well, Thailand particularly where we're working now is very hierarchical structure of leadership
(27:34):
and society.
And we talk about servant leadership a lot in our context, whereas in Thailand you're
either a servant or a leader, you can't be both.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's the challenge.
Yeah.
And you have to work within the system, the hierarchical system, because the themes of
(27:57):
like service and humility, they're there.
You don't have to import new themes or concepts.
But you just have to try and build that into a biblical framework for people.
And it's a lot of it's about example.
It's not about telling people what to do.
And yeah, so that's a very real challenge.
(28:19):
Yeah, I could imagine.
Yeah.
Yeah, like for me, I'm hearing all this for the first time and I'm a bit quiet because
I'm just trying to process everything.
Like that's incredible what you're saying.
Yeah, I'm going to be watching this and then going over it and then looking into it.
(28:40):
What you said there, it's like, you know, it's either you're a servant or a leader,
you can't be both.
Yeah.
That really caught me.
I'm like, that's so true.
Even in the Indian culture that I see, that is exactly what it is.
Like you can either be a leader or a servant, but you cannot be both.
And when you introduce that into the culture or society, I think there'll be a lot of people
(29:04):
reluctant to listen to that.
Like, no, no, no, help me out of it because I don't want to be both.
Yeah.
I can't be a servant to my servant.
And it's sort of like in Australian culture, it's like, sure, you'll be my boss and I respect
you.
But if you do something wrong to me, I'm going to let you have it.
You know what I mean?
Like typical Australian, that's how it is.
(29:27):
But, I mean, cultures play a huge part.
How we share the gospel, establish churches and leadership and that.
It's all about context.
Oh, unbelievable.
And like we're talking about servant leadership.
It's not like how did Jesus, Jesus never wrote a book or held a seminar on servant leadership.
(29:49):
He washed feet.
Exactly.
So there's the example.
He practically did it.
But I think it's more than for us to, it's more than just, okay, I'm willing to do the
menial job to you.
Can I get a cup of coffee?
I'm your servant, you know, but I'm your leader too.
It's much more than that.
(30:09):
We use the terms like transactional and transformational leadership.
Right.
So transactional is, okay, I'm the leader and this is my goal and I want you to help
me with my goal.
And if you do that, I'll give you a pat on the back and I'll recognise you in front of
people.
So there's kind of a transactional nature to the leadership, which is common in Asia
(30:34):
particularly.
Okay.
But the transformational, it's okay.
I want you to reach your full potential.
You've got a gift on your life and maybe I need some stuff done here and maybe you could
do it well, but I could see you really doing something wonderful here.
So that's that, you know, transformational leadership is wanting the best for the other
(30:56):
person, not just wanting to use the other person to achieve your goals.
And that's what Jesus did too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, I can sum it up by saying love, that shows a lot of love.
Yeah.
Transformational.
That's just amazing.
When you go to another country, another culture, you know, you have to do it in a loving way
(31:18):
and sometimes we can be so authoritative, saying like, this is, you know, this is the
way, the truth and the lie.
You must follow it.
It's the word of God you have to do and say.
I don't care what you've been, you know, reading your entire life and what your culture is
all about, but this is the right way.
Essentially that's true, but we're not doing it the right way.
We're not showing love because we need to be respectful.
(31:42):
We need to like show them exactly what Jesus did.
Jesus didn't come and just, you know, boast authority everywhere.
He was a very humble man and he did his ministry in a very humble way and very respectful way.
You know, he was stoned and he had to go out of, he didn't stay there and say, hey, you
know, I'm being stoned.
Why are you stoning me?
Or like, you know, he could have done so many things.
(32:04):
He could have called, you know, the angels to come and fight a battle, but he did not.
He just slipped away and went and said, I'll pray for you.
Yeah.
And it can be challenging when you do mission work like this.
Wow, that's really good.
Well, a hundred percent.
And when you go to a new culture, you'll make a lot of mistakes.
(32:24):
It's unavoidable.
You're going to make mistakes, but your attitude in that, like you're saying, love and grace,
you'll get a lot of forgiveness.
You'll get a lot of forgiveness.
But if you go in like arrogantly, yeah, they may not even say anything to you, but you're
done.
No, that's amazing.
(32:45):
So we'll come to the present times now because I know you've been doing missions a lot, but
recently in the recent past, what has been like, what's got put in your heart and what's
your focus in?
Is it still mission work in Thailand or do you want to like do more work within Australia
or what is it?
I just...
(33:05):
Well, in just over a week, we're back in Thailand, Northern Thailand, where we work with leadership
development amongst the Thai ethnic churches, the Karen churches, Hmong, Lahu churches,
and God's given us great favour in that space.
Two or three years ago, we became aware of what was happening in Karen state just across
(33:27):
the border from us into Myanmar, formerly called Burma.
And I heard about the atrocities that were being committed there by their own government
bombing not just the Karen, but probably all the minorities, but the one that we were aware
of in Karen state, bombing the villages, burning their crops, Burmese troops coming in, firing
(33:50):
on non-combatants, rape, torture, murder, women and children.
They're forced to live in the jungle and holes in the ground and caves and with nothing,
you know, and I thought, wow, we've got to go and see.
So loaded up our truck with provisions and went to the border and met our Karen friends,
got on a boat couple of hours up the river and into the war zone in Karen state.
(34:13):
And just the things you see there, the images that stay with you.
Oh, can't unsee.
No.
And a young boy, 16, M16, patrolling the perimeter of the village looking for ground troops and
who should live like that?
You know, yeah, just horrific, horrific things happening.
And I said to Don and when we got back, I said, you know, we're not equipped for this.
(34:36):
We're not trained with no experience, but we've got to do something.
So we just started working with our Karen friends and raising funds to take in provisions
with food, rice, tarps or temporary shelters, water filtration device, whatever they needed
to take in.
Beautiful.
So our role was more raising funds, raising awareness, raising partners so we could just
(34:57):
continue to do that.
And we've been doing that for a couple of years and we're unfortunately still having
to do it because it's just continuing all the time.
And so they're more the frontline guys.
Don't get the idea that I'm like Indiana Jones with the machete in the jungle.
No, that's not me.
But I do go in from time to time.
(35:18):
We meet them and to put it in perspective for me, like one time we met like 100 people
that came over, met them on the border.
Another time, another village walk 12 hours through the jungle, not through the jogging
track, through the jungle, through the jungle to just to pick up the supplies.
And they've got a 20 kilo rice sack.
(35:41):
It's going to take them longer to get back.
And just the desperation, but the appreciation that they have for just anyone helping them
in their struggle.
And so, you know, in our culture, you know, excuse me, I had that caramel latte on skinny
camel milk 10 minutes ago.
(36:01):
What do you mean you don't have a skinny camel?
And I want to see the manager now.
So yeah, that's perspective, perspective.
Twelve hours to get a bag of rice.
Yeah, no, no, because that's what I was thinking about is like if anyone here in Australia
or anywhere is struggling to appreciate life, maybe go on a mission trip or do something
(36:22):
like that.
It'll fix you up like that.
First world problems.
And they're real.
We've got issues, there's problems.
I get it, you know, but to get perspective to see what other people, they've got nothing,
nothing, nothing.
And just anything we can do to help them, they're just so appreciative.
So we work with a team there and we've got kind of a three phase strategy.
(36:44):
One is just help them survive, you know, so they don't die.
And then the second one is we take Bibles in, encourage and pray for people.
And the third, we're trying to develop that now where it's trying to impart the kingdom
of God is here, you know, you're in the jungle, you've got nothing but God's with you.
(37:05):
And get these guys, pray for the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons and see the kingdom
of God manifest in that terrible situation.
Yeah.
And I think his spirit and his grace would be stronger in there than anywhere else.
So that's beautiful.
With that, if there are people watching this and they are drawn to that, I need to help.
(37:31):
God has put it on my heart to help.
What's the way that, is there a website, a number, an email address or whatever?
Yes, we can put that up and people can donate.
And there's tax deductibility status.
Awesome.
Yeah, or just regular.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, anything, everything helps.
Yeah, absolutely.
Every little thing helps.
Yeah, yeah.
(37:52):
Yeah.
And every prayer makes a difference.
Yeah.
So guys, if you're watching, wait till the end, we'll put all that up.
It'll be on your screen.
You can put it up now.
Yeah, it's up there.
It's up there.
If you can see it.
But we will have that on the comment section or it would be on the description of the video.
Yeah, we'll have it.
If you're listening to us on Spotify or Apple podcast, you can definitely go up to YouTube
(38:18):
and get these information from there.
Yeah, for sure.
But with that, I'd like to ask you a last question before we close, because unfortunately,
you've given us your time and I know you're such a busy man.
Being here has been such a true blessing for us.
For sure.
We planned on doing this maybe two or three weeks ago, but unfortunately, we couldn't
(38:41):
go ahead with the podcast, but we're so glad you are here now.
Thank you.
So I just want to know, because it's so important to raise next generation of leaders.
And we've seen that also as a challenge within our church.
It's something God's also been putting in many people's heart.
(39:04):
Having that next generation of leaders.
I would like to know what your organization or you personally do to raise these next generation
of leaders in either China or Thailand.
How does that happen?
I'm very keen to know.
Well, it's very organic.
(39:24):
Where God just connects us with people.
And to me, it's all about the one.
Yeah.
It's all about the one.
A lot of us look for the crowds.
And God's been teaching me that example.
When we were in China, I was walking around our neighborhood, just walking our dog.
(39:46):
And I saw something that was amazing.
It was like a miracle.
It was a Victory 1700cc twin motorcycle.
And I love motorbikes.
And I thought, wow, because where I live, you don't see that sort of stuff.
So I knocked on the door of a house, that the bike was outside, no one home.
(40:06):
A few days later, I'm walking past, I see the bike again, knock on the door, no one
home.
So then I started walking away and this car pulls up and a young man gets out.
And I'd seen him around, but I didn't know him.
Young Chinese man.
And then I said, hey, is this your motorcycle?
Yeah, we just got talking.
His name is Ben.
And anyway, he'd come over to my place for coffee and we go for a motorbike ride and
(40:30):
we're just making friendships.
And then finally, he says, Ross, what do you do here?
Which is kind of a dangerous question to answer when you're in China, because you don't know
who people are.
Anyway, I just said, well, we're here.
We're trying to make a difference.
We've got a community center.
We help the migrant families that come from the provinces into the city.
(40:52):
We have children's programs.
He said, I'd like to see that.
And one day we went and had a look at it and he was just blown away that what we were doing,
the slum area that was so horrible that wasn't really that far from where he was living.
Yeah.
But he wasn't even aware of it.
You know, oh, wow.
Yeah.
And and saw what we were doing and donated like books to our little library we had there
(41:13):
for the kids.
And every time we had a community day, he'd be there with drinks and snacks and all that
sort of thing.
And we haven't spoken about the gospel at all at this point.
And at that time, we were bringing Australian worship bands into China and doing kind of
semi secular events here and there.
But there was one we were doing.
It was more of a closed thing in a big reception room.
(41:35):
That was actual outreach.
Yeah.
So I said, Ben, would you like to come and hear the band?
He came along, loved it, you know.
And then a few weeks later, I said, Ben, I felt I could trust him by now.
I'm preaching at an underground church next week.
Would you like to come?
He said, yeah, I'll come.
So he came.
I gave the appeal and raised his hand, received Christ, baptized him in water and discipled
(41:58):
him and just now an amazing leader, amazing man of God, leading groups and seeing people
saved.
And I said to him, just as we're leaving, I said, Ben, if the only thing I achieved
here was to see you come to Christ and become the leader you are, 20 years, it's worth it.
(42:19):
Yeah, 100%.
That's the future of China.
To me, it's about the one that can make the difference to so many.
And the qualities you look for in people are so important because not everybody can be
a leader or wants to be.
That's amazing.
That's such an encouragement to me as well.
(42:43):
Not having to have a massive group or whatever, but to find that quality in maybe even just
one.
Yes.
Yeah.
It brings everything back to perspective.
Jesus could have had millions.
Yeah.
He chose to have.
Yes.
Yeah.
So thank you.
That's incredible.
That's incredible story.
Well, thank you, Ross, for being in the show.
(43:07):
It's great to hear that and towards the end, that was also something that's...
I really, whoever Ben is, I pray that whatever he's doing, I know Lord's happy with his work,
but just that protection over him and we'll be praying for Ben.
Yeah, sure.
And to our viewers too, keep Ben in prayer.
(43:29):
But thank you again for coming.
My pleasure.
Thank you so much.
Towards the end of the show, what we really like to do is for you to spend some time,
or you can look at the camera or you can talk to us, but yeah, just to tell our viewers
what's in your heart and just something for our viewers to take home with them or already
home.
Yeah.
(43:50):
Just to take out of the show and we like to end with you praying for our show and praying
for our viewers too.
That would be great.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, I would just like to exhort people, never give up.
Never give up serving God.
Never, when things are tough, like for me, I've been on the people that are saying to
(44:12):
me, Bryce, you're 71, you've been on the field 41 years, you've now got stage four
esophageal cancer and the doctors are saying they can't help you with anything and you're
going back to the field.
And why don't you just put your feet up?
And there's a couple of reasons.
One I say, well, the job is what you get paid for, the calling is what you're made for.
(44:35):
And I'm made to be a missionary.
Now, I don't use that term outside of church circles because people don't really understand
what that means.
I say I'm a hope dealer.
But the other reason is why this old war horse is still on the field is I'm waiting for young
(44:55):
people and older people of this generation to put their hand up and say, here are my
Lord, send me wherever, however, whatever, I want to be obedient and I want to be the
one that you can use.
Because we need a whole generation of just very ordinary people to go to be sown into
(45:18):
the nations as seed to make a difference, to do what God's called them to do.
So that's my passion to see that happen.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, Ross.
If you would like to pray for us, we would love to show.
Thank you, Lord.
You are the Lord of the harvest.
(45:39):
Hallelujah.
We thank you for your grace, your mercy, your peace that is given to us in abundance, Lord.
Thank you, Lord, that you've saved us and you've called us for purpose and meaning,
Lord.
Help us to find that Lord in you, Lord.
Not just personal fulfillment, but Lord, meaning that aligns with your kingdom directives in
(46:03):
our lives, Lord.
Use us all, Lord, to make a difference, to be salt and light and to change this world
that the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of our God.
Yes.
Place our lives, our future, our testimony into your hands to do with us whatever you
would do to bring about your glory and bring about the kingdom expansion through the earth.
(46:27):
In Jesus' name we pray.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Can I just say we've had a lot of amazing guests on this show.
We've had so many great times doing podcasts, but this one's really hit home for me.
So thank you.
Yeah.
I bless you.
Thanks.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for the opportunity to share with your wonderful audience.
God bless you all.
(46:48):
Thank you.
Thank you everyone for joining us for another episode of Real Talk Friday.
That was Ross Winchester here.
We're so glad that he could come to this show and doing what he's doing with the battle,
health battle, physical battle that you're going through right now.
(47:09):
It's a true inspiration to me and to a lot of people that are watching this.
We thank you and thank you for being in the show.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
It's great and I feel like God's going to take you so far and there's healing and everything
because through you there's going to be so many people changed and I know it.
(47:31):
And that's something that God's telling me to tell you that.
You're going to change a lot of things and the battle that you're going through of health
is just, you know, the devil's not happy and he tries to put you down, but God's powerful
more than anything else.
I know you've heard that, but I just want to reassure you that he's got to and there's
(47:53):
nothing that can pull you down.
There's no weapon formed against me.
No prospect.
No prospect.
Yeah.
But with that, thank you for joining us and we'll see you in another episode of Real Talk
Friday.
God bless you.
As we conclude our episode of Real Talk Friday, we extend our heartfelt gratitude to all our
listeners for joining us on this enlightening journey.
(48:16):
But our journey doesn't end here.
Join us every Friday as we continue to uncover the real stories of real people where authenticity
intersects with spirituality in profound ways.
Together we'll navigate the complexities of life, finding inspiration and hope in the
remarkable narratives shared within the walls of Logan City Christian Church.
(48:36):
Thank you for tuning in and until next time, may your faith journey be filled with grace,
understanding and the unwavering presence of God.
Stay tuned for more Real Talk every Friday on Real Talk Friday.
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