October 19, 2023 • 43 mins
With us today to unravel the life, impact, and ongoing legacy of this incredible woman is none other than Kirstie Shedden, an esteemed London tour guide specialising in 'Suffragettes in Westminster.' Kirstie’s unparalleled expertise and nuanced understanding of this complex era bring a richness to the subject matter that promises to captivate our audience.
Annie Kenney was not just a participant in the women's suffrage movement; she was a linchpin, an impassioned activist whose story diverges in fascinating ways from her contemporaries. Born into a working-class background, her activism broke the mould in a movement often associated with the middle and upper classes. Her contributions were neither small nor forgettable; she was a tour de force who navigated arrest, imprisonment, and societal marginalisation while maintaining her staunch commitment to the cause.
In today's discussion, we'll traverse the landscape of Annie Kenney's involvement in the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU), explore the intricacies of her arrests and her resilience during imprisonment, and take a walk through Westminster's very streets where she, and others like her, left an indelible mark. You'll even hear about her correspondences with key figures of her time and the lasting legacy she left behind.
Whether you're a history aficionado, a student of social movements, or simply someone curious about the multi-layered history that has shaped modern London, this episode offers a narrative feast that is both educational and enthralling.
So, fasten your seatbelts for a journey back in time that is not only enlightening but also incredibly relevant to our understanding of activism, social change, and the women who dared to defy the status quo. Kirstie, a very warm welcome to you; we’re thrilled to have you on the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome, dear listeners, to another fascinating episode of
the London History Podcast wherewe delve into the vibrant and
diverse past of this great city.I am your host Hazel Baker, a
qualified London tour guide and founder of London guidedwalks.co
dot UK whether you're born and bred Londoner.
(00:21):
Or a curious listener. Join us on a journey through
time as we explore the city together.
Each episode is supported by show notes, transcripts, photos,
and further reading, all to be found on our website.
If you enjoy what we do, then you'll love our guided walks and
private tours that we offer throughout the year.
(00:42):
All bookable online at londonguidedwalks.co dot UK
Subscribe now to never miss an episode and if you enjoy the
show, please leave us a review and rating to help spread the
word to other history lovers. Today we have an exceptionally
special episode for you that delves into the Life and Times
(01:05):
of one of Britain's most indomitable spirits, Suffragette
Annie Kenny. Annie Kenny is not merely a
footnote in the history of struggle for women's suffrage.
She was a force of nature who defied societal norms and whose
story can teach us a great deal about that diverse which
tapestry that was the suffragette movement.
(01:28):
Joining us for today's enlightening discussion is
Kirsty Shedden, a qualified Camden and City of Westminster
London tour guide who offers a Suffragettes in Westminster
walking tour. During this episode, we'll
explore a range of questions aimed at illuminating the
multifaceted life of Annie Kenny.
We'll also discover how Annie navigated the rough waters of
(01:51):
imprisonment, maintaining her resilience against the odds.
So sit back. Prepare for an enlightening
journey back in time as we unravel the complexities,
struggles, and triumphs that mark the life of Annie Kenny.
Let us commence. Kirsty, welcome to the podcast.
(02:11):
Hello. Yes, I'm very excited to talk
about Annie Kenny. She's rather unusual woman, I
think for her time, which makes her, you know, especially
important to really talk about. So as you said, she was the
suffragette, so that made her a member of the WSPU, the Women's
Social and Political Union, as it was called.
(02:33):
And she was a member of this from its early beginnings in
Manchester, as in fact founded by Emmeline and Christabel
Pankhurst in 1903. But Annie joined in 1905, when
the organization was still very small and centered in
Manchester. Annie, I think you're going to
(02:55):
find campaigned tirelessly for votes for women in the early
20th century. And she was also she very much
stuck to Emmeline and Christabel's vision of how that
campaign should be won. Now Annie was a working class
woman, and we know that working class women joined the
(03:17):
suffragettes and indeed other suffrage organizations.
But their story is often lost. But Annie wrote a biography.
It was called memories of a militant.
And that gives us an insight into her history, so she hasn't
entirely been forgotten. She also features in Sylvia
(03:37):
Pankhurst. Sylvia Pankhurst was another
sister in the Pankhurst family and in her account, the
Suffragette Movement, which was published in 1924.
So she was an integral part then.
She was right in it. And even titling her
autobiography of Militant, it shows that action is required.
(03:58):
It's not just words that matter.Exactly right.
So she was born in a small village near Oldham in Lancaster
in 1879. She was the 5th of 11 children.
I mean, huge families in workingclass were very common at that
time. But most of those children, all
of those children grew up. Both her parents worked in the
(04:22):
local cotton mill, however, so they weren't.
They weren't wealthy, but they were did seem to be keen,
particularly in Annie's mother, to their children getting on in
the world and encouraged them totake advantage of what was now
compulsory education. So in 1870 it become compulsory
for children to go to school andAnnie began school at the local.
(04:45):
The local school when she was 5,but when she was 10 she had to
start work, as did all the children, because the family
just didn't have enough money tosurvive.
So she too went to the cotton mill and she was 1/2 timer.
So this meant she spent the morning working in the mill and
(05:07):
the afternoons at school. But by 13 she was working full
time at the mill. And you know, just an example of
the conditions that she had to put up with.
She herself lost a finger in an accident.
There wasn't the health and safety or or or anything like
that. And she was working 12 hours a
day. It was a very grueling life for
(05:30):
what was somebody who was only had only just become a teenager.
Her mother was a great influence.
However, her mother knew how to read.
And she read them stories. She quoted poetry.
And one of the things that I think was nice was that she told
Annie to see the best in anyone and the worst will gradually
fall away, be kind to others, tolerant and sympathetic.
(05:53):
So it shows the kind of family that Annie was brought up in.
And in fact the family was very close.
She wrote letters to her sisterswhen she was away campaigning
and. In fact, two of her sisters
ended up joining the suffragettemovement themselves.
So she was a recruiter as well then?
She was definitely a recruiter. She was a member as in fact were
(06:18):
probably more working class women than we appreciate, a
member of the newly formed Independent Labour Party and she
went to meetings and she heard various speakers and, in 1905,
Christabel Pankhurst. Came to one of the meetings and
she heard Christabel speak aboutvotes for women, and this
(06:40):
somehow resonated very strongly with Annie.
She could see, I think she couldunderstand how votes for women
would improve the lives of a working conditions for women,
which she was already now just in her early 20s, very
passionate about improving them.In fact, she stood as one of the
(07:03):
first women for election to joinher local union committee of the
Card and Blowing Room Optics. I have tried in vain to find out
what you did in the Card and Blowing Room, but this is all to
do with the textile industry which was very, very significant
in that area of of the country at the time she heard them.
(07:27):
She was inspired to join. And she was invited to tea by
the Pankhurst. And I think probably at this
stage the Pankhurst felt that, you know, having a working class
woman who was very interested injoining their organization would
be a valuable sort of, you know,maybe publicity tactic, you
(07:51):
know, to be talking about somebody like her.
But she suggested. When she met them, she wasn't
shy and coming forward that theyset up speaking platforms at
local fairs across Lancashire and to spread the word.
And Chris Well and Sylvia both joined her in this.
And the young women you know toured around the country
(08:14):
talking about votes for women and telling them how this would
be the way they could secure improvement in their lives.
We've got a little bit of information about how Annie
looked and how she spoke partly from Sylvia and also we have got
photographs of her now. One thing that's interesting is
(08:36):
that Sylvia felt that she lookedolder than her age and that she
had, you know, wrinkles prematurely and and that sort of
thing, which just shows really the hard life that she had
already led. But she had a loud, carrying
voice. And a very direct way of
speaking UH, which really got her message across.
(08:56):
Most of helped, wasn't it that listening to her mom telling
stories at the fireplace and that here in that, you know,
spoken word and it must have been really quite liberating for
her to be able to be accepted byother people who wanted the same
thing. I mean the importance here, like
you were stressing, is. When you say votes for women,
(09:17):
it's not just having a vote, it's having the opportunity to
change not only your life, but the the life of families, your
families and future generations as well, that you actually have
the opportunity to do that. Whereas before, absolutely
nothing. Exactly right and at the mercy
of of of, you know, people, employers, husbands.
(09:42):
And that sort of thing. No, no recourse to change to
change your life for the better.The other thing about Annie and
again you know the movement tried to typify her as the as
sort of spokes woman of the working class, but she's very
unique. You know, she's not shy and
(10:03):
going up to the paint curse and saying, you know, tell me more
and and getting herself invited to tea and start to become part
of their world. And her first militant action
happened in 1905 with with Cristobel.
So what was happening in 1905 was that the Conservative
government was really not in a very good position.
(10:25):
They'd managed to really offend most areas in society, most
groups of people in society. And so it was widely expected
that the Liberals would get in to the to government.
And so political parties by the end of 1905 were out and about,
(10:46):
talking to people to drum up support for an election, which
they expected would come in the following year.
So at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester in October, Lord Gray
in Winston Churchill was speaking Okay in support of the
Liberal Party and. The women asked them.
(11:09):
They were probably shouted, Are you going to make women's
suffrage a government measure? What are your views on Votes
Women. And they were ignored.
So they unfilled a banner with the slogan Votes for Women and
were thrown out of the meeting. Now Christabel had got her
(11:30):
degree. She couldn't practice in law and
she knew that in order to get arrested and therefore publicity
and more action was called for, they'd just be kicked out on the
street. So she spat at the policeman.
Apparently, according to Sylvia,it was a very pathetic spit, but
nevertheless it was written downas one.
(11:51):
So they were arrested and charged with assault.
They were given the option of paying a fine or going to
prison, and they chose prison. They knew right from this early
stage that what they were after,deeds not words, was to get
publicity for the cause. And then more women would hear
about it and more women would join.
And it would join anyway. Kenny was released and
(12:17):
Christopher was released after ashort sentence because they
chose prison not to pay the fineby a crowd of supporters.
And this was the first of 13 times that she was sent to
prison. So what were prison conditions
like? Because she's going back 12
times. It's not like she's going back
because she she liked it. No, exactly.
(12:41):
And so in fact on on the walk that that I do, we do pass a
monument, we'll be standing in front of the monument and
talking about. The suffering that women were
prepared to go through for theirbeliefs in this monument,
Suffragette Memorial recognizes that.
(13:02):
Try and get us, remember, because it's very easy to say,
oh, you went to prison and and then you got released and that
sort of thing. But prison at that time was
absolutely appalling. And of course for a working
class woman it was even worse. They had three divisions in
prison. And the third division was the
(13:23):
harshest, and that's where the working class woman went.
And there was no, particularly in this early stage, there was
no thinking that Annie was not working class because she wore a
shawl and clogs to denote that she was working class at some of
these actions. And you have a lot in a small
(13:45):
cell. It'd be very dark.
There was only light outside. You know if it was.
During the night, conditions were filthy, the food was was
really poor can't, you know, just basically gruel and bread.
There were no vitamins in there,Couldn't really survive on that
for longer. And in 1909, suffragettes
(14:06):
actually began hunger strike in protest at these divisions.
They wanted to be in the First Division, where obviously got
more creature comforts. But also because this was where
political prisoners would be putand they wanted to be recognized
as a political prisoners. Now Annie herself went on hunger
(14:27):
strike at one time and it's probable that her health, which
she suffered from in later life,was actually caused by this
experience and the force feedingthat the government introduced.
As a response to this, more of which later.
Absolutely. So, so just to to to clarify for
(14:50):
some of the the the listeners with this force feeding and
there are accounts of suffragettes talking about how
there was a, it was like a map, my mouthpiece to force their
mouth open, wasn't it Kirsty? Yeah.
Or maybe through the nose. It depended on the doctor.
Yeah. Oh, yes.
So this rubber tube will go through the nose and if they
(15:10):
were forced through the mouth, sometimes they're because it's
metal the the teeth would be broken as they're forced to to
do it. And then this pipe shoved down
and the esophagus and then what kind of food sort were they was
pumped into them. Was it Semolina was?
Yeah, it was kind of like a gruel of of of something or
(15:32):
other, you know, sort of oats orSebilina or or something of
this. This nature again, you know, OK,
it has some calories in it, but it didn't really have any
nutritional value either. So the point was not really to
keep people surviving for long, just really to, you know, add
more cruelty to the to the sentence, I think.
(15:54):
Or exactly, yeah. The physical abuse there and
then and then one suffragette she she actually died from.
A stomach exploding from this this force, but then this also
led then to the outcry of the conditions and leading then to
the the cat and mouse act. That's right.
Yes, the Cat and Mouse Act. And Annie moving on a little
(16:18):
bit, yeah. But in 1913, she was one of the
first women to be released underthis cat and mouse act.
In the later part of the campaigns they got very, very
militant. And one of the things that the
government felt, Reginald McKenna, the then Home
Secretary, was that suffragetteswere getting too much sympathy
(16:40):
with the force feeding because Christabel Emmeline, they made
no secret of it. They advertised what was
happening and this caused many more people to be sympathetic to
the movement. So in order to kind of stop this
before speeding was kind of wound down to a certain extent.
(17:04):
And so that if a suffragette went on hunger strike and got
ready really weak instead of then for speeding them, they
were let out until they recovered and then they were
brought back and rearrested. And obviously the suffragettes
caused as much difficulty as possible.
(17:24):
On the rearrest aspect and. I did benefit for the police as
well because they can see who collected them, where they
stayed, who visited, you know, all their close associates and
all their connections. And they get a broader view of
who actually is involved, not just the prisoner themselves,
yes. Because they were after their
(17:45):
money, they were after the moneythat the suffragettes had.
They had an enormous amount of money and unfortunately for the
police. They were audited every year and
their accounts were always in order so.
So how about delving into the the key moments that occurred
relating to Annie and also the broader suffragette movement?
(18:08):
What were they? OK, so as I say, the
Suffragettes began in in Manchester in 1903.
And in 1905, they decided to start making inroads in London
because after all, that's where Westminster is, that's where the
government is. And Annie first came down to
London, actually before 19/06 she stayed with Sylvia because
(18:29):
Sylvia was studying art down there and she was introduced to
working class women in the East End and she immediately
recruited some of those to the cause.
But we're still talking about, you know, a very small group.
But when in January of 1906, after the landslide election
results for the Liberals, Annie's work intensified.
(18:50):
She began working full time for the WSPU down in London as a
paid organizer. She got £2.00 a week and she and
Sylvia formed the London Committee of the WSPU.
Annie at this time spent a greatdeal of time in the East End
with the because this was seen as a sort of center if you like,
(19:11):
of of working class area. And at this time the
Suffragettes were quite focused on working class women.
On February the 16th she and Sylvia booked Caxton Hall.
Now Caxton Hall is somewhere where we'll see on the walk.
And this was, it was had big meeting rooms in it and they
were going to hold a WSPU meeting and listen for news of
(19:34):
The King's Speech. They were going to try and hear
they'll send a runner over to Parliament to find out if there
was any word or votes for women on the in The King's Speech.
And so Emmeline Pankhurst came down and she said, but how can
we fill it? We haven't got, you know, this
(19:55):
is a hole for 700 people. And this is the reason why Annie
mobilized women from the East End to attend the meeting.
And so about several hundred of them came.
They came to Saint James's Station and then they went off
to Caxton. Caxton Hall and this was.
(20:18):
An amazing meeting really, because this began the women's
parliaments that happened in subsequent years and they would
always be listening out for votes for women being mentioned
on the King's speeches and they were always very disappointed.
So really, in a short space of time, Annie was becoming well
(20:42):
known, certainly in the small suffrage circles.
And she was also being, you know, paraded in in the press
with publicity. And she was also being
entertained by rich and the poor.
And she'd really kind of left the mill, in my opinion.
She'd left the mill behind a little bit, certainly kind of,
(21:03):
you know, emotionally. So the next few years, they just
show us that Annie's spontaneous.
She's determined, like the leadership, to get votes for
women on the government's agenda.
OK, so this is, this is typical of Annie, You know, she just
rushes straight in. So they decided to send a
(21:23):
deputation of women to Downing St. because they've been writing
to the new Prime Minister, Campbell Bannerman, to arrange a
meeting to persuade him to put votes for women on government
business. And this had all been refused.
So they decided to show up. And so a group of them,
(21:44):
including Annie, went off to Downing St.
Which to us today seems quite amazing, isn't it?
You got possibly anywhere near #10 today.
And so anyway, one of the suffragettes knocked on the door
of #10. Two detectives opened the door
and told them to go away and close the door.
And then one of the other ladies, she attacked this thing
(22:06):
which she thought was a door knocker, but it's actually a
hand, another handle on the doorand opened it.
And at the same time, Annie wearing her clogs and wearing
her shawl. I have to say she did wear those
selectively. She didn't wear them to all
engagements. She got on top of the prime
minister's car and started a speech about votes for women.
(22:28):
And so she and the others obviously were all arrested.
But disappointingly, Campbell Bannerman didn't press charges
because he didn't want the publicity.
It was sort of a bit embarrassing, really.
So that failed. But, well, his idea failed as
well because it all got reportedin the newspaper.
They didn't, you know, fail to inform the press that this
(22:49):
activity was going on now. Something kind of you would
imagine would have shifted for Annie in about 1907, because the
suffragettes had been quite close to the Independent Labour
Party. One of the reasons they had a
(23:11):
breakaway group was because they'd been disappointed by the
New Labour Party's attitude to votes women.
They kind of couldn't persuade the Labour Party to take up
their cause in the way that theywanted them to.
So there was kind of a split andreally from this time onwards
(23:32):
more middle class women were targeted to be members.
But Annie, despite her background and her sort of
seeming passion for working class women, she decided that
that policy would work better. What they were going to do was
they were going to be anti government.
So anytime there was a byelection or something like
(23:52):
that, they were going to go around the country and campaign
against the Liberal candidate. That's how they it was going to
work. So she stuck throughout a thick
and thin to the cause and the ideas that Emmeline and
Christabel held about what should happen, what would be the
(24:13):
best way to achieve votes for women.
In 1907 she went to Bristol and she set up the WSPU's West of
England branch. She stayed there till 1911 and
she organized a number of highlyeffective protests.
She disrupted political meetingsas usual.
(24:35):
She got a woman called Mary Phillips to attack Winston
Churchill at Bristol train station.
And in 1911, when women were being encouraged to avoid the
census, she got a group of womento travel around on a caravan so
that they were of no fixed abode.
And she in fact spent many of her weekends at her house called
(24:59):
Eagle House, which was owned by a woman called Mary Blathwaite
and and her family. And so she was able to sort of
have a little rest, if you like,from her busy schedule.
But over the years, also when she returned to London, many
indignities and violence were meted out against her during
(25:21):
protests. And in 19, oh, ten, she came up
to join the women in the women'sparliament.
And she was, like many others, thrown to the ground, struck on
the chest by the police during March to Westminster.
This is one of the things that you you don't hear is the
(25:45):
violence against suffragettes. Yeah.
You hear about the violence thatthey caused and the the bombs.
You hear about obviously the thethere was the death of Emily
Davidson, so through herself. Not down in front of the King's
horse, but there was actually a riot at her funeral in Saint
(26:06):
George's in Bloomsbury, where people attending, not not
attending the funeral there to to watch or what was going on.
They were throwing bricks at those suffragettes attending the
funeral and we don't often hear the the violence that
suffragettes received themselves.
No, exactly right and and and clearly the force feeding was a
(26:29):
major issue there. The way they were manhandled in
prison by female orders often aswell.
No opportunity was missed reallyto to push people to the ground.
It was this kind of whole idea that you know, women's place was
in the home that women were delicate, you know working class
(26:50):
and upper classroom. But when they got out of line,
the way to sort them out was to offer violence towards them, you
know, for daring to stir out of of their proper places.
But undeterred, between 1912 and14, the movement became ever
(27:12):
more militant. A number of things which I talk
about during the war had happened where it hope had been
raised, if you like, that the government would finally
introduce some legislation. But by 1912 it was absolutely
clear that the Liberal government were not going to
(27:32):
introduce any votes for women orallow any private members bill
or or time for it. And so Christabel and Emmeline
decided it was no holes barred now, which did lose them quite a
lot of support. But Annie was in full agreement
(27:52):
with what they were doing, and this speech that she made in
1913 gives you a little flavor of that.
She said. You know that every woman ought
never to go out without a hammerin her pocket and never to go
out with at least touching one pillow box.
You who cannot break windows, for goodness sake, get on with
(28:15):
something else. Everyone can do a pillow box,
but you must remember that that's the one thing that
touches the pockets of the people.
So she was advocating window smashing there and also arson
attacks on pillow boxes. And these were some of the many
activities that the lone wolf, Ithink you would call them,
(28:40):
episodes, lone wolf actions to try and keep the cause in
people's minds. So you can tell from that she
was actually a very competent speaker, you know, because she's
making these speeches herself and she's, I've got a couple of
other things as well. So on another occasion, she said
(29:02):
in her defense, the law may be stronger than I am, but if I may
not change the wicked law that holds in bondage the smitten
womanhood of this country, I will at least die in the attempt
to change it. And in 1912 she defended herself
in court with the speech The Right to Rebel.
It actually had a title where she shone light on the
(29:25):
injustices of the suffragettes sentences for things like
property damage and, you know, things that didn't really hurt
anybody. Yet pointing out the leniency of
sentences that were given to menwho had caused sexual violence,
you know, possibly even, you know, with very young young
people. Again, emphasizing this, you
(29:49):
know two facedness, if you like,about how women should be
treated and how men should be treated, and what constituted a
really serious crime. So you mentioned 1914, so this
is where we have World War One come into play.
What can you speak a little bit about Annie's role during World
(30:10):
War One, and also maybe how her focus shifts around this period
as well? When World War One broke out
1914, they immediately stopped their activities and decided
that they would support the war effort.
And Annie agreed with this. She did follow follow the line
(30:31):
that Christabel and Emmeline took on practically every issue.
She's stuck by her, you know, original commitments, if you
like, to the WSPU and her. Her life was broadened in a way
during this time. For example, she went to the
United States on a lecture tour,which wasn't just, you know,
(30:57):
just to do with women's rights. She, when she got home, she
encouraged women to become munitions workers and she became
quite close to David Lloyd George.
So she's really, you know, not quite going back to what she was
before, but she has really, you know, become more involved in
(31:17):
political side of things. And so, yeah, her life kind of
changed. And it was a sort of, in terms
of votes for women, it was more of a a kind of waiting game
until 1918. And then of course in 1918, the
(31:39):
representation of people's acts gave women or some women the
vote for the very first time. But you had to be over 30
householder, or the wife of the householder or occupiers of
property with an annual rent of £5, or be a graduate of the
British University, of which there were not that many at the
at the time. And I'm not sure you may be able
(32:01):
to tell me this whether she actually got the vote, because I
don't think she would have been qualified to have the vote
herself. And I've left everywhere and
it's not not mentioned I. Mean.
This is also worth, I suppose, pointing out that not all men
had the vote either until then, so there were limitations.
There was a very strict social structure.
(32:26):
Not just within the the the the people that you spent time with
but also you know how you behaved or expected to behave,
what you wore or didn't wore, the clothing, the colors, the
type of material, everything wasquite transparent on that score
and then we'll welcome comes andwomen are then moving into roles
that are traditionally reserved for men you know from munitions
(32:49):
factories to nursing providing their capability and.
And they're worth also in contributing to society.
And that then. Results in public opinion
shifting. You know men get back from First
World War wanting their jobs back and women have been doing
it. So there's like now suddenly who
are we? There's that feeling of
(33:10):
especially with men of in terms of we are what we do, but the
women have been doing who we are.
So there was a big challenge there, so.
Yeah. As you mentioned that the
representation of the people that's in 1918, I mean over 30,
you have to have certain property qualifications and I
don't know if Annie actually owned anything, no, I wouldn't
(33:34):
have thought so unless she'd, you know, been given it by
somebody else or or whatever. Yeah.
And then, and then of course, 10years later, then the the
franchise had been extended to all women over the age of 21.
And that then equalizes that voting age of for men and women.
(33:55):
Yeah, So it all kind of, you know, I mean without them
fighting before the First World War, I don't think there would
have been the conversation to have afterwards.
There's not necessarily, and I go into quite a bit of detail on
the walk at the end of that, youknow, thinking about whether the
suffragettes actions helped or hindered the introduction of of
(34:19):
the vote for women. Because of course, you know,
it's always said that women who worked during the war, that was
their reward, but it wasn't the reward for the munitions
workers. No at all.
So. You know, could do the work.
You see. You know this is that that
point? There's a story, isn't there, of
if you're wanting to domesticateor train a Bailey B elephant and
(34:43):
have you heard this one? And so you you have the baby
elephant, and instead of puttinghim in a a a pan, you use a big
steak and you tie the the rope, the chain to the steak and you
pull plummet. There's the steak into the
ground. No, no matter how hard this tiny
baby elephant tries, he cannot pull the steak from the ground.
(35:07):
And then, as he grows older, he knows he can't do it.
And so you could use a teeny weeny little pin as the stake
and he won't try and pull it because he tried so much earlier
on. So the conversation of the the
with the suffragettes of actually having that
conversation and that thought and realizing that, you know
(35:31):
what, I'm not the only one. Why can't we have the vote and
then certainly doing the work ofmen going well, if we can prove
our worth, then what's the argument against it?
Yeah, certainly. And he didn't really continue
much after the war, possibly because she did get married and
(35:52):
and have a son. She wrote her memoir.
She would write some pamphlets, but she basically kept herself
out of the public eye. She did work hard for
Christabel's parliamentary campaign in 1918 because
Christapel could stand for election after that
representation of the People's Act.
(36:13):
You women were allowed to be astound as MPs and they set up
the women's party and she was unsuccessful.
Christapel, but she it was close.
It was very close. She didn't lose by a margin.
And so she kept up. She kept up with, with friends,
really like christabel, like other men, other former
(36:36):
suffragettes. But over time both her and I
think some of the other suffragettes, their legacy
dwindled and and when you read Sylvia Pankhurst's book, you've
got all the names you know she talks about all the different
people. But again you know it's very
(36:57):
important for us, you know to remember women's history really
and and what part people, peopleplayed.
And Annie died in 1953 but as I say she did experience long term
health problems probably broughtabout by the hunger striking and
force feeding. That's her her story, really,
(37:20):
and very few of the things that she took part in.
There's loads more. There is.
And how does the story of Annie?Can he help us understand the
complexities and nuances of the suffragette moment, especially
when we're discussing like classand regional differences as
well? Yeah.
(37:41):
Well, I think Annie was some, Yeah.
She was a bit unique, as I was saying she was.
She's sort of individual and herown person.
She wasn't just a sort of, you know, and you often find this
with sort of exceptional people that there's not always a huge
reason that you can find for them to be so prominent in
(38:02):
things. But she very much understood the
working class in the North. So for example, you know, she
was a textile worker and the cotton mills were somewhere
where she knew people and she knew the type of people and all
of that kind of thing. Whereas coming back to the East
End and working in the East End for a few years that that was a
(38:24):
different kind of working class.And she, I wouldn't say she
struggled but she it it it was she needed a different approach
if you like, with those women. And I think as well some of the
wealthier people, you know, theyall had servants in their homes
(38:46):
and things like that. So they treated her to some
extent like a pet, I think at first, you know, and said oh
she's so wonderful and that, youknow that kind of language
towards her. But I think it seems to me when
you read, read some of the stuff, that over time she just
became another suffragette who was leading the movement.
(39:11):
I mean, she was put in charge in1912 of the whole movement by
Christabel Pankhurst because christabel was in danger of
arrest. So she went to Paris, and Annie
went to Paris every every week, once a week to receive her
orders. But nevertheless, Christabel
(39:32):
trusted her to be running the movement.
She'd become very experienced and and knew what she was doing
and so to some extent, she didn't represent her class
anymore. It's interesting what you're
saying about how she kind of disappears, but everyone's only
got certain amount of fight in them, yes?
And you know if she's done the if she's been very active and
(39:55):
then she can see the next bout of women coming to fight for the
future. And is that part of the the
progress of being able to step back and go right?
I have trained you off. You go and and and do your best.
Yeah, and there's there's also, though, the idea that maybe
further research would reveal more details about about her
(40:16):
life afterwards. But they're not necessarily
written down. Or we don't necessarily have
access to all of those things, no.
Or it could just be the same oldstory of falling in love,
getting married and husband not allowing earlier to do anything.
No, no, I don't. I don't agree with that.
(40:36):
I think she, I think she was still, you know, sticked her to
her own own self in that respect.
Maybe time will tell. So I suppose my last question
for you, Kirsty, is if Annie Kenny was alive today, what
(40:57):
aspect of modern society do you think she would actively
campaign in or against? Now?
What would be her thing? Her job?
Well. I think, I think she would be
quite horrifying actually. I think anybody coming back from
that period of time because although you know, working
conditions and all of those sorts of things, you know, have
(41:19):
improved for people, the busyness and and the cars and
the pollution and all of those kind of things.
Would, I think, be quite centralto people coming back.
They would really kind of noticethat, although I suppose you did
have kind of like the smog of London, but I think there would
be a real shock as to, you know,how people are living their
(41:43):
lives. I think though, she probably
would be quite keen on social media.
I was just going to say she wouldn't be, and then I thought,
well, no, but she was all very interested in having her
photograph taken. She wore those clogs and shawl
if necessary, so I think she might have been posting all the
time and keeping everybody influencer.
(42:05):
Yeah, you know, informing peopleabout what was going on.
So I think she would have approved of that.
But I think she would be distressed if you were, if she
was coming back to the future thinking that things would be a
lot better to see food banks andand and such like that still,
(42:27):
you know, in society today. So yeah, interesting.
I didn't know what she'd made ofmodern architecture either in
the modern buildings and and whatever.
But the whole area around Parliament would have seemed
very familiar to her. That's a good thing.
Alright. Kirsty, thank you so much for
(42:49):
today. Hopefully everyone listening has
got to know Annie Kenny a littlebit better.
And as we've mentioned, Kirsty does public guided walks of
suffragettes in Westminster. But you can also get together
with a few friends and family and book a private tour.
Kirsty, thanks very much. Thank you.
Welcome, dear listeners, to another fascinating episode of
the London History Podcast wherewe delve into the vibrant and
diverse past of this great city.I am your host Hazel Baker, a
qualified London tour guide and founder of London guidedwalks.co
dot UK whether you're born and bred Londoner.
(00:21):
Or a curious listener. Join us on a journey through
time as we explore the city together.
Each episode is supported by show notes, transcripts, photos,
and further reading, all to be found on our website.
If you enjoy what we do, then you'll love our guided walks and
private tours that we offer throughout the year.
(00:42):
All bookable online at londonguidedwalks.co dot UK
Subscribe now to never miss an episode and if you enjoy the
show, please leave us a review and rating to help spread the
word to other history lovers. Today we have an exceptionally
special episode for you that delves into the Life and Times
(01:05):
of one of Britain's most indomitable spirits, Suffragette
Annie Kenny. Annie Kenny is not merely a
footnote in the history of struggle for women's suffrage.
She was a force of nature who defied societal norms and whose
story can teach us a great deal about that diverse which
tapestry that was the suffragette movement.
(01:28):
Joining us for today's enlightening discussion is
Kirsty Shedden, a qualified Camden and City of Westminster
London tour guide who offers a Suffragettes in Westminster
walking tour. During this episode, we'll
explore a range of questions aimed at illuminating the
multifaceted life of Annie Kenny.
We'll also discover how Annie navigated the rough waters of
(01:51):
imprisonment, maintaining her resilience against the odds.
So sit back. Prepare for an enlightening
journey back in time as we unravel the complexities,
struggles, and triumphs that mark the life of Annie Kenny.
Let us commence. Kirsty, welcome to the podcast.
(02:11):
Hello. Yes, I'm very excited to talk
about Annie Kenny. She's rather unusual woman, I
think for her time, which makes her, you know, especially
important to really talk about. So as you said, she was the
suffragette, so that made her a member of the WSPU, the Women's
Social and Political Union, as it was called.
(02:33):
And she was a member of this from its early beginnings in
Manchester, as in fact founded by Emmeline and Christabel
Pankhurst in 1903. But Annie joined in 1905, when
the organization was still very small and centered in
Manchester. Annie, I think you're going to
(02:55):
find campaigned tirelessly for votes for women in the early
20th century. And she was also she very much
stuck to Emmeline and Christabel's vision of how that
campaign should be won. Now Annie was a working class
woman, and we know that working class women joined the
(03:17):
suffragettes and indeed other suffrage organizations.
But their story is often lost. But Annie wrote a biography.
It was called memories of a militant.
And that gives us an insight into her history, so she hasn't
entirely been forgotten. She also features in Sylvia
(03:37):
Pankhurst. Sylvia Pankhurst was another
sister in the Pankhurst family and in her account, the
Suffragette Movement, which was published in 1924.
So she was an integral part then.
She was right in it. And even titling her
autobiography of Militant, it shows that action is required.
(03:58):
It's not just words that matter.Exactly right.
So she was born in a small village near Oldham in Lancaster
in 1879. She was the 5th of 11 children.
I mean, huge families in workingclass were very common at that
time. But most of those children, all
of those children grew up. Both her parents worked in the
(04:22):
local cotton mill, however, so they weren't.
They weren't wealthy, but they were did seem to be keen,
particularly in Annie's mother, to their children getting on in
the world and encouraged them totake advantage of what was now
compulsory education. So in 1870 it become compulsory
for children to go to school andAnnie began school at the local.
(04:45):
The local school when she was 5,but when she was 10 she had to
start work, as did all the children, because the family
just didn't have enough money tosurvive.
So she too went to the cotton mill and she was 1/2 timer.
So this meant she spent the morning working in the mill and
(05:07):
the afternoons at school. But by 13 she was working full
time at the mill. And you know, just an example of
the conditions that she had to put up with.
She herself lost a finger in an accident.
There wasn't the health and safety or or or anything like
that. And she was working 12 hours a
day. It was a very grueling life for
(05:30):
what was somebody who was only had only just become a teenager.
Her mother was a great influence.
However, her mother knew how to read.
And she read them stories. She quoted poetry.
And one of the things that I think was nice was that she told
Annie to see the best in anyone and the worst will gradually
fall away, be kind to others, tolerant and sympathetic.
(05:53):
So it shows the kind of family that Annie was brought up in.
And in fact the family was very close.
She wrote letters to her sisterswhen she was away campaigning
and. In fact, two of her sisters
ended up joining the suffragettemovement themselves.
So she was a recruiter as well then?
She was definitely a recruiter. She was a member as in fact were
(06:18):
probably more working class women than we appreciate, a
member of the newly formed Independent Labour Party and she
went to meetings and she heard various speakers and, in 1905,
Christabel Pankhurst. Came to one of the meetings and
she heard Christabel speak aboutvotes for women, and this
(06:40):
somehow resonated very strongly with Annie.
She could see, I think she couldunderstand how votes for women
would improve the lives of a working conditions for women,
which she was already now just in her early 20s, very
passionate about improving them.In fact, she stood as one of the
(07:03):
first women for election to joinher local union committee of the
Card and Blowing Room Optics. I have tried in vain to find out
what you did in the Card and Blowing Room, but this is all to
do with the textile industry which was very, very significant
in that area of of the country at the time she heard them.
(07:27):
She was inspired to join. And she was invited to tea by
the Pankhurst. And I think probably at this
stage the Pankhurst felt that, you know, having a working class
woman who was very interested injoining their organization would
be a valuable sort of, you know,maybe publicity tactic, you
(07:51):
know, to be talking about somebody like her.
But she suggested. When she met them, she wasn't
shy and coming forward that theyset up speaking platforms at
local fairs across Lancashire and to spread the word.
And Chris Well and Sylvia both joined her in this.
And the young women you know toured around the country
(08:14):
talking about votes for women and telling them how this would
be the way they could secure improvement in their lives.
We've got a little bit of information about how Annie
looked and how she spoke partly from Sylvia and also we have got
photographs of her now. One thing that's interesting is
(08:36):
that Sylvia felt that she lookedolder than her age and that she
had, you know, wrinkles prematurely and and that sort of
thing, which just shows really the hard life that she had
already led. But she had a loud, carrying
voice. And a very direct way of
speaking UH, which really got her message across.
(08:56):
Most of helped, wasn't it that listening to her mom telling
stories at the fireplace and that here in that, you know,
spoken word and it must have been really quite liberating for
her to be able to be accepted byother people who wanted the same
thing. I mean the importance here, like
you were stressing, is. When you say votes for women,
(09:17):
it's not just having a vote, it's having the opportunity to
change not only your life, but the the life of families, your
families and future generations as well, that you actually have
the opportunity to do that. Whereas before, absolutely
nothing. Exactly right and at the mercy
of of of, you know, people, employers, husbands.
(09:42):
And that sort of thing. No, no recourse to change to
change your life for the better.The other thing about Annie and
again you know the movement tried to typify her as the as
sort of spokes woman of the working class, but she's very
unique. You know, she's not shy and
(10:03):
going up to the paint curse and saying, you know, tell me more
and and getting herself invited to tea and start to become part
of their world. And her first militant action
happened in 1905 with with Cristobel.
So what was happening in 1905 was that the Conservative
government was really not in a very good position.
(10:25):
They'd managed to really offend most areas in society, most
groups of people in society. And so it was widely expected
that the Liberals would get in to the to government.
And so political parties by the end of 1905 were out and about,
(10:46):
talking to people to drum up support for an election, which
they expected would come in the following year.
So at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester in October, Lord Gray
in Winston Churchill was speaking Okay in support of the
Liberal Party and. The women asked them.
(11:09):
They were probably shouted, Are you going to make women's
suffrage a government measure? What are your views on Votes
Women. And they were ignored.
So they unfilled a banner with the slogan Votes for Women and
were thrown out of the meeting. Now Christabel had got her
(11:30):
degree. She couldn't practice in law and
she knew that in order to get arrested and therefore publicity
and more action was called for, they'd just be kicked out on the
street. So she spat at the policeman.
Apparently, according to Sylvia,it was a very pathetic spit, but
nevertheless it was written downas one.
(11:51):
So they were arrested and charged with assault.
They were given the option of paying a fine or going to
prison, and they chose prison. They knew right from this early
stage that what they were after,deeds not words, was to get
publicity for the cause. And then more women would hear
about it and more women would join.
And it would join anyway. Kenny was released and
(12:17):
Christopher was released after ashort sentence because they
chose prison not to pay the fineby a crowd of supporters.
And this was the first of 13 times that she was sent to
prison. So what were prison conditions
like? Because she's going back 12
times. It's not like she's going back
because she she liked it. No, exactly.
(12:41):
And so in fact on on the walk that that I do, we do pass a
monument, we'll be standing in front of the monument and
talking about. The suffering that women were
prepared to go through for theirbeliefs in this monument,
Suffragette Memorial recognizes that.
(13:02):
Try and get us, remember, because it's very easy to say,
oh, you went to prison and and then you got released and that
sort of thing. But prison at that time was
absolutely appalling. And of course for a working
class woman it was even worse. They had three divisions in
prison. And the third division was the
(13:23):
harshest, and that's where the working class woman went.
And there was no, particularly in this early stage, there was
no thinking that Annie was not working class because she wore a
shawl and clogs to denote that she was working class at some of
these actions. And you have a lot in a small
(13:45):
cell. It'd be very dark.
There was only light outside. You know if it was.
During the night, conditions were filthy, the food was was
really poor can't, you know, just basically gruel and bread.
There were no vitamins in there,Couldn't really survive on that
for longer. And in 1909, suffragettes
(14:06):
actually began hunger strike in protest at these divisions.
They wanted to be in the First Division, where obviously got
more creature comforts. But also because this was where
political prisoners would be putand they wanted to be recognized
as a political prisoners. Now Annie herself went on hunger
(14:27):
strike at one time and it's probable that her health, which
she suffered from in later life,was actually caused by this
experience and the force feedingthat the government introduced.
As a response to this, more of which later.
Absolutely. So, so just to to to clarify for
(14:50):
some of the the the listeners with this force feeding and
there are accounts of suffragettes talking about how
there was a, it was like a map, my mouthpiece to force their
mouth open, wasn't it Kirsty? Yeah.
Or maybe through the nose. It depended on the doctor.
Yeah. Oh, yes.
So this rubber tube will go through the nose and if they
(15:10):
were forced through the mouth, sometimes they're because it's
metal the the teeth would be broken as they're forced to to
do it. And then this pipe shoved down
and the esophagus and then what kind of food sort were they was
pumped into them. Was it Semolina was?
Yeah, it was kind of like a gruel of of of something or
(15:32):
other, you know, sort of oats orSebilina or or something of
this. This nature again, you know, OK,
it has some calories in it, but it didn't really have any
nutritional value either. So the point was not really to
keep people surviving for long, just really to, you know, add
more cruelty to the to the sentence, I think.
(15:54):
Or exactly, yeah. The physical abuse there and
then and then one suffragette she she actually died from.
A stomach exploding from this this force, but then this also
led then to the outcry of the conditions and leading then to
the the cat and mouse act. That's right.
Yes, the Cat and Mouse Act. And Annie moving on a little
(16:18):
bit, yeah. But in 1913, she was one of the
first women to be released underthis cat and mouse act.
In the later part of the campaigns they got very, very
militant. And one of the things that the
government felt, Reginald McKenna, the then Home
Secretary, was that suffragetteswere getting too much sympathy
(16:40):
with the force feeding because Christabel Emmeline, they made
no secret of it. They advertised what was
happening and this caused many more people to be sympathetic to
the movement. So in order to kind of stop this
before speeding was kind of wound down to a certain extent.
(17:04):
And so that if a suffragette went on hunger strike and got
ready really weak instead of then for speeding them, they
were let out until they recovered and then they were
brought back and rearrested. And obviously the suffragettes
caused as much difficulty as possible.
(17:24):
On the rearrest aspect and. I did benefit for the police as
well because they can see who collected them, where they
stayed, who visited, you know, all their close associates and
all their connections. And they get a broader view of
who actually is involved, not just the prisoner themselves,
yes. Because they were after their
(17:45):
money, they were after the moneythat the suffragettes had.
They had an enormous amount of money and unfortunately for the
police. They were audited every year and
their accounts were always in order so.
So how about delving into the the key moments that occurred
relating to Annie and also the broader suffragette movement?
(18:08):
What were they? OK, so as I say, the
Suffragettes began in in Manchester in 1903.
And in 1905, they decided to start making inroads in London
because after all, that's where Westminster is, that's where the
government is. And Annie first came down to
London, actually before 19/06 she stayed with Sylvia because
(18:29):
Sylvia was studying art down there and she was introduced to
working class women in the East End and she immediately
recruited some of those to the cause.
But we're still talking about, you know, a very small group.
But when in January of 1906, after the landslide election
results for the Liberals, Annie's work intensified.
(18:50):
She began working full time for the WSPU down in London as a
paid organizer. She got £2.00 a week and she and
Sylvia formed the London Committee of the WSPU.
Annie at this time spent a greatdeal of time in the East End
with the because this was seen as a sort of center if you like,
(19:11):
of of working class area. And at this time the
Suffragettes were quite focused on working class women.
On February the 16th she and Sylvia booked Caxton Hall.
Now Caxton Hall is somewhere where we'll see on the walk.
And this was, it was had big meeting rooms in it and they
were going to hold a WSPU meeting and listen for news of
(19:34):
The King's Speech. They were going to try and hear
they'll send a runner over to Parliament to find out if there
was any word or votes for women on the in The King's Speech.
And so Emmeline Pankhurst came down and she said, but how can
we fill it? We haven't got, you know, this
(19:55):
is a hole for 700 people. And this is the reason why Annie
mobilized women from the East End to attend the meeting.
And so about several hundred of them came.
They came to Saint James's Station and then they went off
to Caxton. Caxton Hall and this was.
(20:18):
An amazing meeting really, because this began the women's
parliaments that happened in subsequent years and they would
always be listening out for votes for women being mentioned
on the King's speeches and they were always very disappointed.
So really, in a short space of time, Annie was becoming well
(20:42):
known, certainly in the small suffrage circles.
And she was also being, you know, paraded in in the press
with publicity. And she was also being
entertained by rich and the poor.
And she'd really kind of left the mill, in my opinion.
She'd left the mill behind a little bit, certainly kind of,
(21:03):
you know, emotionally. So the next few years, they just
show us that Annie's spontaneous.
She's determined, like the leadership, to get votes for
women on the government's agenda.
OK, so this is, this is typical of Annie, You know, she just
rushes straight in. So they decided to send a
(21:23):
deputation of women to Downing St. because they've been writing
to the new Prime Minister, Campbell Bannerman, to arrange a
meeting to persuade him to put votes for women on government
business. And this had all been refused.
So they decided to show up. And so a group of them,
(21:44):
including Annie, went off to Downing St.
Which to us today seems quite amazing, isn't it?
You got possibly anywhere near #10 today.
And so anyway, one of the suffragettes knocked on the door
of #10. Two detectives opened the door
and told them to go away and close the door.
And then one of the other ladies, she attacked this thing
(22:06):
which she thought was a door knocker, but it's actually a
hand, another handle on the doorand opened it.
And at the same time, Annie wearing her clogs and wearing
her shawl. I have to say she did wear those
selectively. She didn't wear them to all
engagements. She got on top of the prime
minister's car and started a speech about votes for women.
(22:28):
And so she and the others obviously were all arrested.
But disappointingly, Campbell Bannerman didn't press charges
because he didn't want the publicity.
It was sort of a bit embarrassing, really.
So that failed. But, well, his idea failed as
well because it all got reportedin the newspaper.
They didn't, you know, fail to inform the press that this
(22:49):
activity was going on now. Something kind of you would
imagine would have shifted for Annie in about 1907, because the
suffragettes had been quite close to the Independent Labour
Party. One of the reasons they had a
(23:11):
breakaway group was because they'd been disappointed by the
New Labour Party's attitude to votes women.
They kind of couldn't persuade the Labour Party to take up
their cause in the way that theywanted them to.
So there was kind of a split andreally from this time onwards
(23:32):
more middle class women were targeted to be members.
But Annie, despite her background and her sort of
seeming passion for working class women, she decided that
that policy would work better. What they were going to do was
they were going to be anti government.
So anytime there was a byelection or something like
(23:52):
that, they were going to go around the country and campaign
against the Liberal candidate. That's how they it was going to
work. So she stuck throughout a thick
and thin to the cause and the ideas that Emmeline and
Christabel held about what should happen, what would be the
(24:13):
best way to achieve votes for women.
In 1907 she went to Bristol and she set up the WSPU's West of
England branch. She stayed there till 1911 and
she organized a number of highlyeffective protests.
She disrupted political meetingsas usual.
(24:35):
She got a woman called Mary Phillips to attack Winston
Churchill at Bristol train station.
And in 1911, when women were being encouraged to avoid the
census, she got a group of womento travel around on a caravan so
that they were of no fixed abode.
And she in fact spent many of her weekends at her house called
(24:59):
Eagle House, which was owned by a woman called Mary Blathwaite
and and her family. And so she was able to sort of
have a little rest, if you like,from her busy schedule.
But over the years, also when she returned to London, many
indignities and violence were meted out against her during
(25:21):
protests. And in 19, oh, ten, she came up
to join the women in the women'sparliament.
And she was, like many others, thrown to the ground, struck on
the chest by the police during March to Westminster.
This is one of the things that you you don't hear is the
(25:45):
violence against suffragettes. Yeah.
You hear about the violence thatthey caused and the the bombs.
You hear about obviously the thethere was the death of Emily
Davidson, so through herself. Not down in front of the King's
horse, but there was actually a riot at her funeral in Saint
(26:06):
George's in Bloomsbury, where people attending, not not
attending the funeral there to to watch or what was going on.
They were throwing bricks at those suffragettes attending the
funeral and we don't often hear the the violence that
suffragettes received themselves.
No, exactly right and and and clearly the force feeding was a
(26:29):
major issue there. The way they were manhandled in
prison by female orders often aswell.
No opportunity was missed reallyto to push people to the ground.
It was this kind of whole idea that you know, women's place was
in the home that women were delicate, you know working class
(26:50):
and upper classroom. But when they got out of line,
the way to sort them out was to offer violence towards them, you
know, for daring to stir out of of their proper places.
But undeterred, between 1912 and14, the movement became ever
(27:12):
more militant. A number of things which I talk
about during the war had happened where it hope had been
raised, if you like, that the government would finally
introduce some legislation. But by 1912 it was absolutely
clear that the Liberal government were not going to
(27:32):
introduce any votes for women orallow any private members bill
or or time for it. And so Christabel and Emmeline
decided it was no holes barred now, which did lose them quite a
lot of support. But Annie was in full agreement
(27:52):
with what they were doing, and this speech that she made in
1913 gives you a little flavor of that.
She said. You know that every woman ought
never to go out without a hammerin her pocket and never to go
out with at least touching one pillow box.
You who cannot break windows, for goodness sake, get on with
(28:15):
something else. Everyone can do a pillow box,
but you must remember that that's the one thing that
touches the pockets of the people.
So she was advocating window smashing there and also arson
attacks on pillow boxes. And these were some of the many
activities that the lone wolf, Ithink you would call them,
(28:40):
episodes, lone wolf actions to try and keep the cause in
people's minds. So you can tell from that she
was actually a very competent speaker, you know, because she's
making these speeches herself and she's, I've got a couple of
other things as well. So on another occasion, she said
(29:02):
in her defense, the law may be stronger than I am, but if I may
not change the wicked law that holds in bondage the smitten
womanhood of this country, I will at least die in the attempt
to change it. And in 1912 she defended herself
in court with the speech The Right to Rebel.
It actually had a title where she shone light on the
(29:25):
injustices of the suffragettes sentences for things like
property damage and, you know, things that didn't really hurt
anybody. Yet pointing out the leniency of
sentences that were given to menwho had caused sexual violence,
you know, possibly even, you know, with very young young
people. Again, emphasizing this, you
(29:49):
know two facedness, if you like,about how women should be
treated and how men should be treated, and what constituted a
really serious crime. So you mentioned 1914, so this
is where we have World War One come into play.
What can you speak a little bit about Annie's role during World
(30:10):
War One, and also maybe how her focus shifts around this period
as well? When World War One broke out
1914, they immediately stopped their activities and decided
that they would support the war effort.
And Annie agreed with this. She did follow follow the line
(30:31):
that Christabel and Emmeline took on practically every issue.
She's stuck by her, you know, original commitments, if you
like, to the WSPU and her. Her life was broadened in a way
during this time. For example, she went to the
United States on a lecture tour,which wasn't just, you know,
(30:57):
just to do with women's rights. She, when she got home, she
encouraged women to become munitions workers and she became
quite close to David Lloyd George.
So she's really, you know, not quite going back to what she was
before, but she has really, you know, become more involved in
(31:17):
political side of things. And so, yeah, her life kind of
changed. And it was a sort of, in terms
of votes for women, it was more of a a kind of waiting game
until 1918. And then of course in 1918, the
(31:39):
representation of people's acts gave women or some women the
vote for the very first time. But you had to be over 30
householder, or the wife of the householder or occupiers of
property with an annual rent of £5, or be a graduate of the
British University, of which there were not that many at the
at the time. And I'm not sure you may be able
(32:01):
to tell me this whether she actually got the vote, because I
don't think she would have been qualified to have the vote
herself. And I've left everywhere and
it's not not mentioned I. Mean.
This is also worth, I suppose, pointing out that not all men
had the vote either until then, so there were limitations.
There was a very strict social structure.
(32:26):
Not just within the the the the people that you spent time with
but also you know how you behaved or expected to behave,
what you wore or didn't wore, the clothing, the colors, the
type of material, everything wasquite transparent on that score
and then we'll welcome comes andwomen are then moving into roles
that are traditionally reserved for men you know from munitions
(32:49):
factories to nursing providing their capability and.
And they're worth also in contributing to society.
And that then. Results in public opinion
shifting. You know men get back from First
World War wanting their jobs back and women have been doing
it. So there's like now suddenly who
are we? There's that feeling of
(33:10):
especially with men of in terms of we are what we do, but the
women have been doing who we are.
So there was a big challenge there, so.
Yeah. As you mentioned that the
representation of the people that's in 1918, I mean over 30,
you have to have certain property qualifications and I
don't know if Annie actually owned anything, no, I wouldn't
(33:34):
have thought so unless she'd, you know, been given it by
somebody else or or whatever. Yeah.
And then, and then of course, 10years later, then the the
franchise had been extended to all women over the age of 21.
And that then equalizes that voting age of for men and women.
(33:55):
Yeah, So it all kind of, you know, I mean without them
fighting before the First World War, I don't think there would
have been the conversation to have afterwards.
There's not necessarily, and I go into quite a bit of detail on
the walk at the end of that, youknow, thinking about whether the
suffragettes actions helped or hindered the introduction of of
(34:19):
the vote for women. Because of course, you know,
it's always said that women who worked during the war, that was
their reward, but it wasn't the reward for the munitions
workers. No at all.
So. You know, could do the work.
You see. You know this is that that
point? There's a story, isn't there, of
if you're wanting to domesticateor train a Bailey B elephant and
(34:43):
have you heard this one? And so you you have the baby
elephant, and instead of puttinghim in a a a pan, you use a big
steak and you tie the the rope, the chain to the steak and you
pull plummet. There's the steak into the
ground. No, no matter how hard this tiny
baby elephant tries, he cannot pull the steak from the ground.
(35:07):
And then, as he grows older, he knows he can't do it.
And so you could use a teeny weeny little pin as the stake
and he won't try and pull it because he tried so much earlier
on. So the conversation of the the
with the suffragettes of actually having that
conversation and that thought and realizing that, you know
(35:31):
what, I'm not the only one. Why can't we have the vote and
then certainly doing the work ofmen going well, if we can prove
our worth, then what's the argument against it?
Yeah, certainly. And he didn't really continue
much after the war, possibly because she did get married and
(35:52):
and have a son. She wrote her memoir.
She would write some pamphlets, but she basically kept herself
out of the public eye. She did work hard for
Christabel's parliamentary campaign in 1918 because
Christapel could stand for election after that
representation of the People's Act.
(36:13):
You women were allowed to be astound as MPs and they set up
the women's party and she was unsuccessful.
Christapel, but she it was close.
It was very close. She didn't lose by a margin.
And so she kept up. She kept up with, with friends,
really like christabel, like other men, other former
(36:36):
suffragettes. But over time both her and I
think some of the other suffragettes, their legacy
dwindled and and when you read Sylvia Pankhurst's book, you've
got all the names you know she talks about all the different
people. But again you know it's very
(36:57):
important for us, you know to remember women's history really
and and what part people, peopleplayed.
And Annie died in 1953 but as I say she did experience long term
health problems probably broughtabout by the hunger striking and
force feeding. That's her her story, really,
(37:20):
and very few of the things that she took part in.
There's loads more. There is.
And how does the story of Annie?Can he help us understand the
complexities and nuances of the suffragette moment, especially
when we're discussing like classand regional differences as
well? Yeah.
(37:41):
Well, I think Annie was some, Yeah.
She was a bit unique, as I was saying she was.
She's sort of individual and herown person.
She wasn't just a sort of, you know, and you often find this
with sort of exceptional people that there's not always a huge
reason that you can find for them to be so prominent in
(38:02):
things. But she very much understood the
working class in the North. So for example, you know, she
was a textile worker and the cotton mills were somewhere
where she knew people and she knew the type of people and all
of that kind of thing. Whereas coming back to the East
End and working in the East End for a few years that that was a
(38:24):
different kind of working class.And she, I wouldn't say she
struggled but she it it it was she needed a different approach
if you like, with those women. And I think as well some of the
wealthier people, you know, theyall had servants in their homes
(38:46):
and things like that. So they treated her to some
extent like a pet, I think at first, you know, and said oh
she's so wonderful and that, youknow that kind of language
towards her. But I think it seems to me when
you read, read some of the stuff, that over time she just
became another suffragette who was leading the movement.
(39:11):
I mean, she was put in charge in1912 of the whole movement by
Christabel Pankhurst because christabel was in danger of
arrest. So she went to Paris, and Annie
went to Paris every every week, once a week to receive her
orders. But nevertheless, Christabel
(39:32):
trusted her to be running the movement.
She'd become very experienced and and knew what she was doing
and so to some extent, she didn't represent her class
anymore. It's interesting what you're
saying about how she kind of disappears, but everyone's only
got certain amount of fight in them, yes?
And you know if she's done the if she's been very active and
(39:55):
then she can see the next bout of women coming to fight for the
future. And is that part of the the
progress of being able to step back and go right?
I have trained you off. You go and and and do your best.
Yeah, and there's there's also, though, the idea that maybe
further research would reveal more details about about her
(40:16):
life afterwards. But they're not necessarily
written down. Or we don't necessarily have
access to all of those things, no.
Or it could just be the same oldstory of falling in love,
getting married and husband not allowing earlier to do anything.
No, no, I don't. I don't agree with that.
(40:36):
I think she, I think she was still, you know, sticked her to
her own own self in that respect.
Maybe time will tell. So I suppose my last question
for you, Kirsty, is if Annie Kenny was alive today, what
(40:57):
aspect of modern society do you think she would actively
campaign in or against? Now?
What would be her thing? Her job?
Well. I think, I think she would be
quite horrifying actually. I think anybody coming back from
that period of time because although you know, working
conditions and all of those sorts of things, you know, have
(41:19):
improved for people, the busyness and and the cars and
the pollution and all of those kind of things.
Would, I think, be quite centralto people coming back.
They would really kind of noticethat, although I suppose you did
have kind of like the smog of London, but I think there would
be a real shock as to, you know,how people are living their
(41:43):
lives. I think though, she probably
would be quite keen on social media.
I was just going to say she wouldn't be, and then I thought,
well, no, but she was all very interested in having her
photograph taken. She wore those clogs and shawl
if necessary, so I think she might have been posting all the
time and keeping everybody influencer.
(42:05):
Yeah, you know, informing peopleabout what was going on.
So I think she would have approved of that.
But I think she would be distressed if you were, if she
was coming back to the future thinking that things would be a
lot better to see food banks andand and such like that still,
(42:27):
you know, in society today. So yeah, interesting.
I didn't know what she'd made ofmodern architecture either in
the modern buildings and and whatever.
But the whole area around Parliament would have seemed
very familiar to her. That's a good thing.
Alright. Kirsty, thank you so much for
(42:49):
today. Hopefully everyone listening has
got to know Annie Kenny a littlebit better.
And as we've mentioned, Kirsty does public guided walks of
suffragettes in Westminster. But you can also get together
with a few friends and family and book a private tour.
Kirsty, thanks very much. Thank you.
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