128. St James's Palace

Nestled in the heart of London, St. James's Palace is a place of profound historical significance, where centuries of tradition, grandeur, and intrigue have woven a rich tapestry. As we venture within its hallowed halls and uncover its hidden secrets, we will unravel the captivating history that has unfolded within these venerable walls.

Join us for the latest fact-filled episode. Listen now>>

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Hello and welcome to our London History Podcast where we share
our love of London. It's people, places and history.
It's designed for you to learn things about London that most
Londoners don't even know. I am your host Hazel Baker,
qualified London Tour guide and CEO and Founder of London

(00:24):
guidedwalks.co.uk. Each episode is supported by
show notes, transcripts, photos and further reading, all to be
found on our website. Click on londonguidedwalk.co.uk
podcast and then select the episode that you fancy and if
you enjoy what we do then you'lllove our guided walks and
private tours that we offer throughout the year.

(00:51):
We are back for another fact filled episode today.
Our journey takes us to the veryheart of the city where history
comes alive in the magnificent St.
James's Palace. Nestled in the heart of London,
St. James's Palace is a place of
profound historical significancewhere centuries of tradition,

(01:13):
grandeur and intrigue have woveninto a rich tapestry.
As we venture within its hallowed walls and uncover its
hidden secrets, we'll unravel the captivating history that has
unfolded within these venerable walls.
Joining me in the studio today is Philip Scott.
He is a City of Westminster tourguide and he does a lot of our

(01:36):
Wonders of Whitehall and Royal London tours, so of course he's
the perfect person to add to ourRoyal Palaces podcast series.
He also, you might recognise thename.
He also did our episode 114 Buckingham Palace.
So now we're going to be moving on to Saint James's Palace,

(01:57):
which is quite a special place. Hello, Phil.
Hello, nice to be here again. We were very lucky at the end of
2023 because we both went round St.
James's Palace on a private touron separate dates, I'll be add,
and I thought it was really quite magical.
What about yourself? Yeah, I really enjoyed going

(02:20):
round. It was a very pleasant surprise
and it was an opportunity that Ididn't actually think I'd ever
get. No, I totally agree.
And also even though I've seen it so many times and read so
much about the history actually walking through the physical
building and that's other dimension which super happy to

(02:41):
have have done that. So, yeah, thank you very much
for the heads up on that one. You're welcome.
So it's worth starting, I think,at the very beginning, and to
ask you really why the Palace ofSaint James is so-called.
It was actually built on the site of an old leper hospital

(03:01):
dedicated to Saint James the Less, who was the patron St. of
the dying, and at one time 14 leprous women were housed in the
hospital. The hospital was in a very
isolated place. There was an awful lot of stigma

(03:21):
attached to leprosy. Lepers were very much social
outcasts, so the hospital was not in the built up area that
the palace is in today. The hospital at one time
actually housed 14 leprous women.
By the time St. James's Palace came to be built,

(03:44):
there were just four of them left and the hospital was
originally built in the late 10th century.
Wow. If anybody wants to hear a
little bit more about letter leper houses in London, then you
can have a little listen to episode 48, where I talked with
our esteemed colleague Ian McDermott, our guide with City

(04:06):
of London. And he discusses what is
leprosy, how it was identified, how many leper houses were in
medieval London in total. And also, if you want to know
how zombies feature in that episode, have a listen to SO
going on to Who built the palacethen if if it's only four
leprous women left, a new palaceis built.

(04:27):
Why and by whom? It was actually built by Henry
the Eighth between 1531 and 1530.
Henry the Eighth possibly wantedhis second wife, Anne Berlin, to
live there, but he had her executed at the Tower of London

(04:47):
before she could actually move in.
Henry the Eighth said that she had engaged in adultery,
witchcraft, incest and treason. There's almost no evidence to
actually back up any of those. There is actually a fireplace
inside the palace with the initials of Henry the Eighth and

(05:11):
Anne Boleyn underneath the mantelpiece, which actually
gives weight to the theory that it was meant for her to live in.
Some have suggested, however, that it was intended for his
illegitimate son Henry Fitzroy, who lived there for a while
before dying from tuberculosis. I was amazed to see that the

(05:33):
fireplace, because of course youget to see a few of the missed
HA's in Hampton Court. Yes.
But I didn't know about the fireplace one.
I was absolutely delighted with that.
For me as well, that was a real highlight.
Now the Palace of Saint James was built in brick, not stone.

(05:55):
So why was that? Quite simply, it was an
expensive building commodity which only the rich could
afford. Red brick was used to impress
people. And it does not very passive.
It does, yeah. Especially with the the White
Malta, it looks like quite psychedelic really, especially

(06:16):
when the sun's hitting on it andwhen did it become a royal, the
official royal palace that we know now and the residence of
the monarch it. Became the official royal
residence and palace. When the Palace of Whitehall
burnt down on the 4th of January1698, it burnt down its in its

(06:39):
entirety, apart from the Banqueting House which is still
Henry the Eighth wine cellar andthe Queen Mary Steps.
After the Palace of Whitehall had burnt down, King William the
Third made it the official royalpalace.
He actually moved in with his sister-in-law, Princess Anne,

(07:01):
who was the future Queen Anne. In reality, William the Third
spent little time there. He preferred Kensington Palace,
Hampton Court and Windsor. It remained the official
residence of the monarch until 1837, when Queen Victoria moved

(07:22):
into Buckingham Palace. And started her own new trend.
Yeah. So Saint Joseph's Palace is
famous for a particular kind of event which has only happened
once in most people's lifetime. So can you tell us a little bit
more about that? Sure, monarchs are proclaimed

(07:43):
monarch on the balcony. Charles the Third was proclaimed
king on the 10th of September, 2022.
The moment that his mother, the late Queen Elizabeth the Second,
died, he became the king. But he wasn't officially

(08:04):
proclaimed king, declared king until two days later.
Now, prior to the proclamation there had been a meeting of the
Accession Council in the palace,and for the first time ever in
2022 it was televised. Interestingly Edward the 8th,

(08:27):
when he was proclaimed king fromthe balcony, he was actually
watching it from a window and hehad with him a mystery woman.
The time nobody realised who shewas.
But as 1936 progressed, it became obvious that it was his

(08:48):
lover, Mrs. Wallis Simpson, and by December of that year he was
gone and the rest is history. Yeah, indeed.
I remember standing in that roomwhen doing the St.
James's tour. And of course we know that they
don't walk through a door, they walk through a window.

(09:09):
But it was nice to actually see the window from the other side.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
So had there been any significant births at that
palace? Actually, there have been quite
a number over the years. Quite a lot of monarchs were
born in the palace. For example, King Charles the

(09:29):
Second, King James the first, Queen Mary the 2nd and Queen
Anne were all born there. Also, George the Fourth was born
in Saint James's Palace, James the 2nd and Mary of Moderna.
They had a child who was born inthe palace, James Francis Edward

(09:54):
Stewart, and he became nicknamedthe Bedpan Baby.
Now you're going to have to explain that to some of our
listeners. He he goes like this James the
second his first wife died and he remarried Mary of Modena.

(10:16):
She was a devout Roman Catholic and in fact James the Second
also became a Roman Catholic andthis was at a time when there
was a very strong anti Roman Catholic attitude in England.
In 1673 a series of laws called the Test Acts actually banned

(10:40):
Roman Catholics from civil or military office.
James the Second, in defiance ofthese acts had actually
appointed various Roman Catholics to various positions
of state. The survival of the baby was
greeted with consternation, especially as the Pope was one

(11:03):
of the godparents. Now rumours started circulating
that the baby had died because Mary had numerous miscarriages
and that another baby had been smuggled into the palace in a
bed warming pan. Now Princess Anne and Princess
Mary, the daughters of James theSecond.

(11:25):
They gave some creedence to these rumours.
Both of them were actually in line to the throne.
Mary, the eldest daughter, was childless, so it was fairly
clear that at some point her younger sister Anne would follow
her. Not long after this, James the

(11:45):
Second was actually forced to abdicate in favour of his
Protestant daughter Mary. She was married to her cousin
William of Orange, the stadholder of the Dutch
Republic, the nephew of James the 2nd, and they were actually
proclaimed joint monarchs For the first time ever.

(12:07):
We had two monarchs of equal status, and they were declared
joint monarchs at Saint James's Palace.
James the Second sent his queen,consort and the baby to France,
and he followed shortly afterwards after the
proclamation of William and Mary's joint monarchs.

(12:32):
That followed something called the Glorious Revolution, which
reduced the power of the monarchand also ensured the supremacy
of the Protestant succession, and in fact this ensuring of the
supremacy of the Protestant succession.
It culminated in the Act of Settlement 17101, which he's

(12:55):
still in force, which meant thatno Roman Catholic could ever
become monarch. This meant that James the Second
son would never become the king now.
He actually became known as the Old Pretender as he tried and
failed to gain the throne. In 1714, after Queen Anne died

(13:18):
and George the First became king.
His son Charles became known as the Young Pretender, also known
as Bonnie Prince Charlie, and in1745 he tried and failed to game
the throne. Now James the Second actually
tried to reclaim his throne. He arrived in Ireland and he was

(13:45):
trying to raise an army there toinvade England, but William of
Orange actually went over to Ireland and King James the
Second was defeated at the Battle of the Boyne.
Oh, it sounds all very exciting,doesn't it, Stuart History.
And of course a lot of people familiar with the story of
Outlander are going to be knitting all of this together

(14:07):
now. Brilliant.
OK, so we've done significant births and of course a wonderful
bedpan scandal, which is perfectexample of fake news for the
time. Absolutely.
We think it's something new, don't we?
But actually, it's been going onfor years.
Yeah. Oh, totally.
Can you maybe talk a little bit about the really quite important

(14:31):
link between ambassadors to the UK and St.
James's Palace? Yeah, sure.
All ambassadors and high commissioners are officially
known not as the Ambassador or the High Commissioner to the
United Kingdom, but the Ambassador or High Commissioner
to the Court of Saint James's, even though it's 1837, since St.

(14:57):
James's Palace was the official royal palace.
High commissioners, by the way, are the names that is given to
ambassadors from Commonwealth countries.
With regards embassies that are close to Saint James's Palace,
there aren't very many. However, there is one embassy

(15:20):
across the road and that is the Embassy of Sudan.
Sadly, Sudan is a country that is at the moment suffering from
a tragic civil war. This next example is a piece of
interesting trivia, but from 1842 to 1845 there was a short

(15:43):
lived legation from the Republicof Texas to the Court of Saint
James's Above, Berry Brothers and Rudd, the wine merchants on
Saint James's Street, very closeto the palace.
Legation closed down in 1845 when the Republic of Texas

(16:03):
became a state of the United States.
And in fact they left a debt of 160 lbs, which wasn't finally
paid until 1986 when some businessmen turned up at Berry
Brothers and Rudd to settle the debts.
The Republic of Texas. It only lasted for around nine

(16:26):
years. It broke away from Mexico.
I think people need to go on your quirky Westminster walk,
Phil. I think they very probably do
and. What about any key or
significant international eventsthat have happened there?
What have we got? Yeah, quite a lot of things that

(16:48):
happened at Saint James's Palacethat would constitute an
international event of significance.
In some ways it's quite hard to ascertain which of the most
significant, but here are just afew examples.
Mary Queen Mary the First. She signed Calais away at Saint

(17:08):
James's Palace in 1558. Calais was the last English
possession in France. She also died in Saint James's
Palace in the same year. Elizabeth the First was actually
at Saint James's Palace when sheheard about the Spanish Armada

(17:29):
and she set off from Saint James's Palace to Tilbury in
Essex, where she made her famousaddress to her troops.
And though I may be a weak and feeble woman, I have the heart
and stomach of a king and a kingof England too.
Absolutely. Wow.

(17:51):
I'm impressed. Jumping ahead to the 20th
century, the Treaty of London was signed in Saint James's
Palace, which resulted in Albanian independence from the
Ottoman Empire. In 1931 there was a very major

(18:12):
conference held at Saint James'sPalace, the Westminster
Conference, and the main topic of discussion was the extent to
which British India should be given greater autonomy.
The was there from the Indian side.
He was actually given an office in Saint James's Palace for the

(18:36):
duration of the conference. Now from an Indian perspective,
the conference did not result insuccess.
The desires of the Indian delegation for Greater Self
government were not met by the British and in fact Indian

(18:57):
independence didn't come about until after the Second World
War. Another important conference
that was held at the Saint James's Palace is a conference
that very much resonates with the main news story of the day.
We're making this podcast at thebeginning of 2024 and the Israel

(19:20):
Palestine conflict is very much in the news.
In 1939 it was an international peace conference at Saint
James's Palace all about the British mandated territory of
Palestine, the Jewish and Arab delegations.
They refused to sit in the same room.

(19:43):
Discussions were held separatelyand resulted in a complete
impasse about the future of Palestine.
It was a very serious conference, but a bit of light
relief came when at one point the emir of Yemen, a country

(20:04):
again very much in the news at the beginning of 2024 that the
emir of Yemen and Emmy of Faisalof Saudi Arabia, they climbed
through the armoury window. Overlooking Friary Court so that
they could watch the Changing ofthe Guard ceremony, another
significant conference was held in 1941.

(20:28):
It was called the Inter Allied Conference.
In summary, 8 governments in exile, plus the United Kingdom
and four of its five dominions. The Dominions were independent
countries within the British Empire and the four countries

(20:49):
were Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa.
These countries together actually created at the first of
six treaties which led to the establishment of the United
Nations and also at this conference it was agreed that
there will be no separate treaties with the Axis powers.

(21:14):
It was also agreed that war crimes will be punished and this
eventually resulted in the Nuremberg trials, after which
there were 12 executions and several imprisonments.
The Declaration of Saint James'sPalace resulted from this
conference just mentioned, abouthow at the beginning of the

(21:38):
1940s the process was put in motion to create the United
Nations. After the Second World War had
finished, the United Nations wasestablished.
It was established in January 1946 in Westminster Central

(21:59):
Hall, and as a part of the establishment of the United
Nations. There was a huge state banquet
at Saint James's Palace, and allof the delegates who had come to
the first meeting of the United Nations were invited to attend.

(22:20):
This year, or should I say last year.
We're now in 2024, there was a major conference with regards
aid for Ukraine. King Charles the Third was
there. Anthony Blinken, the United
States Secretary of State was there.
Our Prime Minister Rishi Sunat was there.

(22:41):
So the building is still being used for quite significant
conferences. So coming on to being able to
see St. James's Palace, you went round
in November, I went round in October.
For you, what were the stand outmoments of your village visit at

(23:01):
Saint James's Palace? I think the stand out moments
for me were seeing where the Accession Council met.
It was televised for the first time in 2022.
And yeah, I found it really quite thrilling to be in the
room where the Accession Councilmet.

(23:24):
Monarchs are declared monarch from the balcony of Saint
James's Palace overlooking FieryCourt.
And as I mentioned earlier, it was actually quite exciting.
Being the other side of the balcony, which is a room that's
full of armour. I found the Chapel Royal a very

(23:48):
interesting place to be in. Also, I was absolutely
fascinated to see hanging fairlynear to where we went in a
painting. A huge painting called The
Chinese Convert James the 2nd commissioned this painting.

(24:10):
James the Second struck up a friendship with the first ever
person of Chinese heritage to settle in England and in fact
the whole United Kingdom. He was called Michael Alphonseus
Shengfu Sung. James the Second really liked

(24:33):
him and he got Sir Godfrey Nella, the leading court
painter, to paint a portrait of him, which he hung in his
chambers and it now hangs in Saint James's palace.
Shen bonded with James the Second very well.
They were both Roman Catholics, so that is probably why they

(24:56):
struck up this good friendship with each other.
Shen was in England from 1685 to1688 and this painting it's
believed it's the first ever painting of a Chinese person to
be commissioned in England, now James the 2nd.

(25:18):
Whilst clearly having no issues with a Chinese person,
paradoxically he was the head ofthe Royal African Company.
They engaged in slave trading. It was set up in 1660 by the
Stewart family, the Royal familyand City of London merchants to

(25:41):
trade in enslaved persons. From the outset it was led by
James the Second when he was theDuke of York.
It traded in enslaved persons, or should I say it traded more
enslaved persons across the Atlantic than any other

(26:02):
organization. In the 16 eighties, 5000 people
a year were being sent over the Atlantic.
It's been estimated that during the existence of the Royal
African Company, 212,000 men, women and children were sold

(26:27):
into slavery by the Royal African Company, and it's
estimated that 44,000 of them died on route.
When enslaved persons were sold,many of them were branded with
the initials RAC Royal African Company, and some of them were

(26:48):
branded with the letters DY Dukeof York.
So we have this incredible contrast with James, the Second
being very good friends with a person of Chinese heritage,
juxtaposed with the horror of his involvement in the slave
trade. Yeah, if people want to listen a

(27:11):
little bit more about the transatlantic slave trade, then
you can listen to episode 126 onthat subject.
And also there is a rather interesting exhibition at the
Bank of England Museum which is totally free to go to.
I didn't agree with everything it said in there, but it is
interested in including the Royal African Company

(27:32):
information there and some artifacts as well.
So you can broaden your knowledge on that score.
But yeah, the painting by To GodBrinella of Michael L Poncio
Shengfu sung. I thought it was absolutely
beautiful, the way his face was turned to the light.
And I think it was perfectly placed on the staircase as well.
For listeners, I will in the show notes include a link to the

(27:54):
image so you can then have a little look in your own time.
And in fact on on the guided tour, I actually felt an
opportunity was missed to talk about this historic painting.
Oh, we did talk about it. Unfortunately, he, the guide
that took us round, ignored it. Oh.

(28:17):
No. Oh, she definitely pointed out.
Because of course he worked at the Bodleian Library with the
librarian Thomas Hyde. Yes, So our tour guide
definitely picked up on that. And I did think of you when I
saw that one, So I'm glad you saw it.
But it's a shame you didn't havethe same tour guide did then.
OK, Royals living there now. Are there any?

(28:40):
Yeah, Princess Anne has her London apartment in the palace
and also Princess Alexandra. Princess Alexandra is one of the
late Queen's cousins. She's now quite elderly, she's
well into her 80s, but she has an apartment in the Palace.

(29:04):
To the best of my knowledge, they are the only Royals that
actually sometimes stay in the palace.
You. Mentioned one of the highlights
of your visit being the Chapel Royal.
Can you maybe tell us something about the significant events
that had taken place there? Yeah, various royal weddings
have taken place in the Chapel. The Chapel is actually fairly

(29:28):
small. One of the most interesting
royal weddings was probably thatof the Prince of Wales, who
later became George the Force. He married his German speaking
cousin Princess Caroline of Brunswick.
This is in 1795. They hated each other.

(29:51):
They met just before the wedding.
He found her smelly, bad mannered and unattractive.
She also found him unattractive.However, George the Third and
Parliament had promised to pay off the Prince of Wales's debt,

(30:13):
which had actually come to about600,000 lbs, which is the
equivalent of about £80 million today.
He he spent crazy amounts of money on home furnishings, food,
wine, gambling, sense. To get the date the debt paid

(30:38):
off, he married a woman who he clearly did not like.
He was actually drunk in the wedding service and on the
wedding night, the Prince of Wales and his new wife, they
went back to the Prince of Wales, his home, Carlton House.

(30:58):
He was so drunk that he fell onto the floor.
His new wife left him there. They actually spent only a few
weeks together and in fact they LED completely separate lives
until her death in 1821. We do know, however, that

(31:19):
marital Congress took place. Some people have said it
actually took place three times because a daughter, Princess
Charlotte, was born in their first year of marriage in 1796.
Princess Charlotte tragically died in childbirth in 1818.

(31:43):
Had she not died, then she wouldhave become the Queen.
Following George the Fourth death in 1830, the Prince of
Wales from 1811 to 1820. He was actually the Prince
Regent because in 1811 his father George the Third, he had

(32:04):
a mental illness and incapacitated him to such an
extent that he was unable to carry on with the day-to-day
functions of being the King. The Prince Regent became King
George the Fourth in 1820. He died in 1830.
Princess Charlotte would have become the Queen then, but as I
mentioned earlier, she tragically died in childbirth.

(32:28):
Caroline George's wife. She was actually banned from
George the 4th's coronation in 1821.
In theory, she should have been crowned Queen Consort and she
famously banged on the door, demanding to be let into
Westminster Abbey. She wasn't let in.

(32:50):
She actually died just a few weeks after the coronation.
We now know that she probably had stomach cancer.
He, the king tried to divorce his wife before the coronation,
but he had to get the permissionof Parliament and this clearly
was not going to happen. So he abandoned his plans to

(33:15):
divorce his wife. If listeners want to hear a
little bit more about Caroline Brunswick and her life, then you
might want to listen to episode 42 John Julius Angerstein, the
man behind the National Gallery because lived round the corner
from Charlotte of Brunswick, andyou'll get to hear about how he
also didn't like her. Another interesting marriage was

(33:36):
the Queen. Victoria married her German
cousin Prince Albert of Saxa, Coburg and Gota in 1840.
They spent £9000 on flowers and ribbons for the wedding.
This is not far off, the equivalent of £1,000,000.

(33:59):
They had a largely happy marriage.
It was cut short by his death from typhoid at the young age of
42. They had nine children who most
of them married into the main royal families of Europe.
Hence Queen Victoria was sometimes called the grandmother

(34:22):
of Europe, George the third. He married Princess Charlotte of
Mecklenburg and Strelitz in the Chapel Royal 1761.
They met for the first time on the afternoon of the wedding.
This was the day that Charlotte had actually arrived in England

(34:44):
after a meal with the family. The wedding took place at 9:00
PM. Charlotte became the Queen
Consort and she gave birth to the future George the Fourth in
Saint James's Palace. The 14 other children that she
had were all born in Buckingham House, which became known as the

(35:06):
Queen's House. George the Third actually bought
Buckingham House for his Queen. George the Third never really
liked St. James's Palace.
He preferred to stay at Buckingham House with his wife.
In fact, he said that St. James's Palace was a quote, dust
trap, UN quote other interestingbits of information about the

(35:30):
Chapel. Meghan Markle was reportedly
baptized into the Anglican faithin the Chapel in a secret
ceremony, Prince George, who's second in line to the throne.
He was christened there, as was his brother Prince Louis, who's
fourth in line to the throne. On a sombre note, Princess

(35:50):
Diana's coffin was kept in the Chapel for five days after it
was brought back from Paris following her tragic deaths in a
car crash. I was talking earlier about
James. The 2nd 2 candlesticks are to
this day in the Chapel. They're actually engraved with

(36:15):
his monogram. So our talk, I didn't say that
bit. And what about the role that the
Palace played for the execution of Charles the 1st?
Now then, Charles the First spent his last night on Earth in

(36:36):
Saint James's Palace. This was the night of the 29th
and 30th of January 1649. He was actually LED from the
palace through St. James's Park on the way to his
execution outside the BanquetingHouse in Whitehall.
It was a part of Whitehall Palace.

(36:58):
That's the palace that burned down in 1698.
Prior to his execution, he actually stayed in the palace
whilst he was on trial for treason in Westminster Hall.
He'd actually lived in Saint James's Palace prior to becoming

(37:19):
king, and he built up a sizable art collection, much of which
was actually sold off during theperiod of the Commonwealth,
which existed from the King's execution in 1649 to the
monarchy being brought back backin 1660.

(37:40):
And what happened to the palace during the time of the
Commonwealth? It was actually a barracks and a
prison. Upon the restoration of the
monarchy in 1660, it became a royal palace again.
Sadly, significant damage was done to the palace during the
time of the Commonwealth, when it was being used as a barracks

(38:01):
and as a prison. And across the road, the
Marlborough Rd. there is the beautiful Queen's Chapel.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah, basically the Queen's Chapel.
It was originally built for Charles the First's wife,

(38:22):
Henrietta Maria. He married her in 1625,
initially by proxy would you believe, and when it was built
it was actually a Roman CatholicChapel.
The King's wife was a Roman Catholic.
She was allowed to maintain her faith and in fact she actually

(38:42):
brought over 28 priests with herfrom France.
She also brought tea. OK, much.
More into the tea drinking and who was the architect for the
Chapel? The architect was probably the
leading architects of the day, Inigo Jones.

(39:05):
Inigo Jones is the man who, for example, designed the banqueting
house where King Charles the Second was executed.
Inigo Jones was the architect who designed the Covent Garden
Piazza. He was the architect of Saint

(39:26):
Paul's Church in Covent Garden, and in fact the churchyard is
actually known as the Indigo Jones Garden.
I heard there was a plan to demolish the palace in the 1820s
by George the 4th. Is that true?
It is true, yes. George the Fourth wanted at one

(39:47):
point to knock it down. He actually said that the palace
was, quote, a dingy mausoleum ofdeparted grandeur, UN quote.
He also said it was beastly and unhealthy.

(40:07):
And in fact, when he became kingin 1820, he drew up plans with
John Nash, the leading architectof the day.
And in fact, John Nash was George the 4th's favorite
architect. But he drew up plans to make
Buckingham House. Which had become known as the

(40:28):
Queen's House, where his mother lived through a plan to to turn
it into a more luxurious place to live.
Originally his plan was to retain St.
James's Palace for state occasions and offices, but in
1826 he changed his mind. He decided to rename the Queen's

(40:50):
House Buckingham Palace, make itthe official Royal Palace, with
St. James's Palace being demolished,
and in fact he wanted Carlton House Terrace to be extended all
the way to Lancaster House. Not only did he want to knock
down St. James's Palace, but he also

(41:10):
wanted to demolish Marlborough House too, which is just across
the road from Saint James's Palace.
Now. Lord Liverpool vetoed this plan.
He vetoed it because a lot of public money had had been spent
on Saint James's Palace, especially renovating it after a

(41:33):
major fire that had occurred there in 1809, He sounds.
Very difficult to please, doesn't he?
George the 4th. Oh, totally.
Yeah. I I think he was quite hard
work. In 1838, after the Palace of
Westminster burnt down, and of course the Palace of Westminster

(41:53):
houses, Parliament, Parliament actually came up with a plan to
relocate the Palace of Westminster on the site of Saint
James's Palace. When I say that the Palace of
Westminster burnt down, it burntdown.
Apart from Westminster Hall, which still exist today, it's

(42:13):
where the late Queen lay in state and.
Why is the area in front of the balcony called Friery Court?
It's called Friery Court becausethere used to be a Friary as a
part of the palace complex. It was actually given to the
Duchess of Marlborough, Sarah Churchill, in 1709, and it was

(42:36):
demolished to make way for Marlborough House.
Originally, the Friary was established by Catherine of
Braganza, who was Charles, the second's wife and Charles the
second was the monarch from 1660to 1685.
Other than the monarch, have anyother persons of significance
lived at Saint James's Palace? Yeah, apart from the monarch,

(43:00):
quite a few people over the years of significance have lived
there. Prince Henry of Wales lived and
died there. He was the eldest son of James
the First of England. He was also James the 6th of
Scotland. Some people have said that
Prince Henry of Wales was the best king England never had.

(43:23):
In fact, his embalmed body remained in his bed chamber for
a whole month. He was the heir to the throne.
He became the Prince of Wales in1610 at the age of 16.
He had a staff at Saint James's Palace of 426.

(43:43):
He imposed a very strict set of rules, one of which was for
banquets and feasts. He said that all banquets and
feasts should be conducted with quote, decency and decorum and
without all rudeness, noise and disorder, unlike the main

(44:05):
palace, the palace of Whitehall,which under James had become
famed for its debauchery. Henry also had a swear box, but
unfortunately he died of typhoidat the age of 18, upon which his
12 year old brother Charles became the heir to the throne,

(44:25):
and eventually Charles became Charles the First.
George the First threw his son out of Saint James's Palace
after they'd had yet another row.
This time the big row that resulted in George being thrown

(44:46):
out was actually at a christening ceremony.
King George the First said that his son had insulted him.
George's wife was allowed to stay if she refused to
communicate with him and she wasn't prepared to do this.
So she ended up leaving Saint James's Palace with him and

(45:12):
their children and they ended upin Leicester House in what is
now Leicester Square, now Georgethe Second.
He also did this to his son, Prince Frederick.
Prince Frederick lived in Saint James's Palace and he was thrown
out after he knelt and kissed George, the second's queen,

(45:34):
Consul Caroline, in front of onlookers in Cleveland Row.
George the Second said that thiswas an this was extravagant and
undutiful behaviour and he too went on to live in Leicester
House, which is where George theThird was brought up.

(45:55):
It all happens in Leicester house Longo.
Big time, baby. Another person who lived there
was Prince Charles when he was the Prince of Wales in 1995.
After the Prince and Princess ofWales separated, Prince Charles
moved into St. James's Palace.

(46:16):
His official office was there and he stayed there until he
married Camilla in 2005, and then they both moved into
Clarence House. He didn't have.
Very far to move to, did he? Not very far at all, Clarence
House being absolutely, it's basically attached these days to
Saint James's Palace. I mentioned earlier about James

(46:39):
the second living there when he was the Duke of York.
I also mentioned about his wife living there.
So I won't talk about that again.
Now, I know you are absolutely stuffed with fab fat Phil.
You've got to give us some on Saint James's, please.
OK, here are a few. Fab facts for you both.

(47:01):
Charles the 2nd and James the Second had their mistresses
living at Saint James's palace. James the Second.
When he was the Duke of York, hehad a stool roommate.
This was an early water closet with systems and pumps and white

(47:26):
Dutch tiles, and the creation ofthe Stool room meant that the
Groom of the Stool was no longerneeded, and the Groom of the
Stool actually helped the monarch with his personal
hygiene after excretion. It was a prize job.

(47:47):
Of course it was. Yes, another interesting.
Fact is, in 1786, a mentally illservant named Margaret Nicholson
tried to stab King George the Third.
She stabbed him with an ivory handle dessert knife.

(48:10):
It was, however, blunt and it didn't cause the king any harm.
She was mentally ill and George the third pardoned her.
He actually said that quote, thepoor creature is mad, do not
hurt her, but she has not hurt me, UN quote.

(48:33):
And she actually spent the rest of her life in Bethlehem Royal
Hospital, which was known as Bedlam.
It was for people who were mentally ill And in fact this
incident. It actually led to the passing
of the Criminal Lunatics Act of 1800, which introduced the

(48:58):
concept into law for the first time of people being quote not
guilty by reason of insanity. UN quote 1846.
A picture called the Royal family by France Winterhalter.
I guess that should be pronounced Winterhalter.
This was exhibited in Saint James's Palace and the public

(49:21):
were invited to view it. 100,000of them turned up to look at the
Queen with her husband Prince Albert and five of their
children. Another fact.
The final fact is that when World War 2 broke out, there was

(49:42):
a fairly extensive picture collection in the palace as
there is today. The pictures will all move to
Windsor and in fact, St. James's Palace, just like
Buckingham Palace did suffer bomb damage during the Second
World War. Yeah, I I think I heard.

(50:02):
That even though in 1944 that the bombs had fallen, it was
reported that the clock in that marvellous Great Gate House was
still striking, even though the hands and the face were
anonymous. Yes, yeah.
And there's a will. There's a way, yes.
How? Brilliant who?
Knew that there was so much history packed into those old

(50:27):
walls at Saint James's Palace. One of the most beautiful
palaces, I think. Especially when you're walking
from Saint James's Park and you get to see all the Tudor
brickwork piling on top of one another.
Thank you so much, Phil. That's been brilliant.
I don't know why but. St.
James's Palace. It tends to be viewed as somehow

(50:49):
the Cinderella palace. It somehow tends to be viewed as
somehow second class. But I I think it's an absolute.
I think it's an absolute gem. No, I totally agree.
I think. Part of that is because it's not
set as a stage like Westminster or Buckingham Palace, It's just
on a road. And the first time I ever saw

(51:13):
St. James's Palace in real life that
I am aware of. I just started my first job in
London over 20 years ago now andI was in a taxi going from one
office to the other and we went round the corner just past St.
James's. I was like you've seen.
Why are you stopping? Kind of thing.
I had no idea that we had Tudor architecture in Bank Centre in

(51:37):
London. I think absolutely that.
Yeah, that's what got me very. Excited on a blustery January
morning. Thank you very much, Phil for
that. That's been brilliant.
You're very welcome and for. All of our listeners of.
Course fielders are Royal London.
He's quirky London as well as Westminster.
One there he has so many facts at his fingertips, you will be.

(52:00):
We're absolutely amazed. And of course people who go on
his tours absolutely love him. So thank you, Phil.
Appreciate it. You're very welcome.