Christian Zeron from Theo & Harris on the Dynamic World of Collectible Watches

Christian from Theo and Harris takes us on an enthralling journey into the world of vintage watches, igniting curiosity with stories of passion and entrepreneurship. Inspired by platforms like Hodinkee and influences such as John Mayer, Christian shares how the allure of vintage timepieces captivated him back in 2014. From receiving encouragement from his mother to buy his first vintage Rolex Datejust, he reflects on the unique charm and challenges of engaging with these timeless treasures, revealing how the vintage watch community is intertwined with personal stories and cultural connections.

Get ready to unravel the complexities of vintage watch ownership as we talk about the challenges faced by collectors, from servicing intricacies to the emotional and financial investments required. Christian and I delve into the cultural significance of family heritage in collecting, and the dynamic market trends that keep enthusiasts on their toes. Highlighting the role of market trends and the fear of missing out, we discuss how personal preferences and the power of social media shape perceptions and prices, creating a vibrant and sometimes volatile marketplace.

Our conversation also explores the art of watch collecting, highlighting the intersection between rarity and desirability that defines the vintage market. Christian offers insights into how certain features, like a gilt dial, can enhance a watch's allure, and why transparency and authenticity are key in content creation. As we celebrate the passion and community spirit within vintage watch collecting, this episode promises to enlighten both seasoned enthusiasts and those just beginning their horological journey. Join us for a candid discussion filled with personal stories, market insights, and the joy of owning a piece of history.

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https://theoandharris.com/

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Episode Transcript

Blake Rea (00:01):
Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of
Lonely Wrist.
Sitting in front of me isChristian from Theona Harris.
What's up, brother?

Christian Zeron (00:09):
How are you Blake?

Blake Rea (00:09):
Thanks for having me on, man.
I'm good, I'm hanging in there,hanging in there, glad to
finally have you on.
I've been thinking aboutinviting you on and it was a lot
easier to invite you on than Iexpected.

Christian Zeron (00:20):
Yeah, you slid right into the emails and that's
it.
That was it.
It was pretty easy.

Blake Rea (00:25):
yeah, you slid right into the emails and that's it.
Well, that was it.
It was pretty easy, man, thanksfor.
Yeah, no, I I've, uh, I'veactually referred you because I
have a lot of my friends wholike trade watches abroad and,
um, and I mean I don't know, hehad some crazy universal geneve
or something that, like, wasvery unknown and mysterious to
him and I was like, dude, youshould hit up this guy,
christian dion harris, and he'sin, like you know, mind, mind

(00:45):
you, like Georgia, like Tbilisi,like in Europe, like has no
idea about vintage watches anduh, I vaguely remember something
like that.

Christian Zeron (00:53):
I really I actually do, um, that that's.
It doesn't happen all thatoften, but it does happen.
And when it does happen, youknow, a guy like me says, oh wow
, like, how did this happen tome?
Right, because usually thatstuff ends up in the hands of,
like really, really uber wealthycollectors.
But you know it's, you knowit's double edged sword, because
you know it's hard to find ahome for something like that

(01:16):
unless you are one of those guys.
That's all right.
In that circle it's a veryincestuous world, mostly, mostly
Italians, but notItalian-Americans, mostly from
Italy, and they, I mean, I don'teven know how they have the
stuff that they do, becauseeverything that's in their
collection seems to be one ofone.
And it's wild, it's really wild.

Blake Rea (01:38):
It is especially considering the market there
versus here.
I've had pretty heated andlengthy discussions about how
mature our market is, but a lotof people there I mean they have
gold and they don't know.
They have gold, you know.

Christian Zeron (01:53):
Yeah, yeah it's .
It's really wild.
I mean a lot of.
You know the, the, the Italiansas a people were really ahead
of watch collecting in, I thinkin the eighties specifically,
but even before then they werereally.
You know, they were into it fora lot of other people and
Italians, generally speaking,you know, have either they have
good taste or we have elevatedright, our elevated them to God

(02:18):
status and we've made theirtaste good.
It's either good or we'vedesignated it need to do good.
Either way, you know, they seemto have everything that we want
.
And what's funny is they end upwearing American.
We want to look like them andyet they wear American fatigues.
It's amazing.

Blake Rea (02:35):
American GI, clark Gable, you know it's amazing
full circle, and so I'm reallyexcited to have you on.
I think it's going to beawesome.
I want to learn about the Theoand Harris story.
What got you going in vintagewatches?
How did your passion evolveinto what is now Theo and Harris

(02:56):
?

Christian Zeron (03:02):
Yeah, I mean I started reading about watches
really not that long before Istarted the company.
I mean I started reading aboutwatches probably early 2014.
You know, hodinkee was, youknow, kind of cranking on the
vintage front specifically atthe time.
I don't remember exactly whenthe John Mayer episode came out,
but it was around then and Iremember just being, you know,
thinking it was really neat.
Now you go back and you lookand you know, john Mayer did a

(03:24):
great job in that right, hespoke intelligently, but the
production value was not thatgood.
If you go back and look at thetime, though, it was pure poetry
and pure creative genius,relative and and it was great.
I remember just really fallingin love with, with the Hodinkee
kind of identity at the time.
Um, I still might have deepadmiration for those episodes.

(03:46):
Uh, jean-claude beaver, or bethere, or whatever.
Um, I remember, obviously, youknow, john goldberger, all those
things.
I thought it was so interesting, you know, uh, not just because
these people were rich, whichof course they were, and that's
somewhat interesting toeverybody um, but it's also
because they really knew whatthey were talking, and that's
somewhat interesting toeverybody, but it's also because
they really knew what they weretalking about and these people
were passionate about.

(04:08):
You know this.
You know what I thought was aninteresting, you know, hobby.
So, anyway, I drank the Kool-Aidpretty quickly and then one day
, my mom, being the enabler thatshe is, and she is said, you
know well, why don't, why don'tyou get a watch?
And said, well, I have no money, you know I don't have any
money.
So she goes, well, you have acouple of bucks that you know

(04:30):
that my mom used to take mymoney.
I used to babysit, right, soshe would, she would take the
money.
I mean, I, I didn't get my ownmoney, the money would go to her
and she would put it in a bankaccount and I never saw it.
So I didn't have that muchmoney.
I think I had something like2,500 bucks or something like
that.
And she goes I'll give you your2,500 bucks.
I think this is a wise thing.
It's a good investment, you'llhave it forever.
You're not blowing it on boozeor drugs, it's a watch and

(04:52):
you'll have it forever.
And the watch I bought, whichwas a Datejust reference 1601
from 77, was 3,300 bucks.
And I said, well, I'm still$800 short.
And she goes don't worry, I'llloan you the money you have to
pay me back.
Just don't tell your father.
And that was it.
I mean, once I had that watchon my wrist, it was all over.
I mean that's when I felt likea member of the community and

(05:17):
that was it.
I mean that was right.
Gasoline on this alreadyburning passion.

Blake Rea (05:27):
I had a 1601, which I had it for a very short period
of time and, you know, the mostdisappointing part about it was
I'm one of those idiots that,like, I send my watches back to
rolex or I send it back towhoever you know, because, uh,
you know, I, I, I like and Iknow I'm gonna get murdered for
this but I like a, I like avintage watch that looks modern.

(05:48):
Yeah, you know like, and thereare certain instances where you
know I'll keep the patina and doall this.
But in a specific instance Igot a 1601 from my friend, um,
the dial looked I mean, thepatina on the dial did not look
good, like it was starting toflake, like they do, and I send
it off to rolex and rolex sendsthe watch back saying we can't
service this.
And I'm like that's reallyweird, because you go around and

(06:11):
you know this is not a rolexlike hit piece, but you know you
go around and you sell the ideathat you can service these
watches and pass them down togenerations.
You know, relatively speaking,like a watch from the 70s is not
that old.

Christian Zeron (06:26):
It's a tough pickle, right, Because I mean,
essentially, you can't passalmost any Rolex down while
remaining its originality,relatively speaking.
It's just that Rolex won'tservice it.
You know, I don't know why theyturned down so many services.
I also don't know why for yearsthey replaced very valuable
parts, I mean, even when thoseparts were valuable, right?

(06:48):
I don't know why Rolex will, incertain markets, sell you out
of a catalog a beach dial rightwhich is supposed to be a
limited.
You know, dial right that onlycame on this beach collection of
Daytona right, and now you cansend a watch in if you know how
to do it.
If you Daytona right, rolex,and now you can send a watch in
if you know how to do it, if youknow what you're doing, you can
send a watch in non-beach andget it back beach go, have a

(07:10):
custom strap made and, boom, youhave what is essentially a fake
watch, right?
I mean, you have, you know, youhave a piece together watch.
Um, rolex does a lot of weirdand funny things.
What I will say, um, what I'mfairly surprised, uh about, and
and glad about, is that in theirnew CPO program whatever
they're calling it, our CEO,whatever the hell they're

(07:31):
calling it, yeah, they, they areallowing patina, they are
allowing defects what we calldefects right, or we call patina
, but with the way they wouldcall defects into their
collection, so long as thedefect has no foreseeable
implication or it doesn'tjeopardize the quality of the
timekeeping and reliability.
I was surprised by that.

(07:52):
I never thought that Rolex wasgoing to be allowing fuchsia
bezels or patinated dials,chocolate brown dials, into
their certified pre-ownedprogram.
They also didn't release verymuch information from the get
right on their CPO program.
So I just assume that you knowwhat had been normal for so long
would continue.
Not the case.
I'm very surprised.

(08:12):
I'm very impressed.
They're expensive watches, butwhat do you expect, right, if
Rolex is doing the work?
They're not going to be.
It seems like you're comparingapples to apples, but you're not
right.
I mean, you know the watchmakerthat you may send a Rolex to is
very different than sending thewatch into the multi-billion

(08:34):
dollar multinational companythat has their own foundries.
I mean, you know it's different.
These are different things.
You know your watchmaker verywell may die tomorrow.
These things happen.
We've heard many horror storiesabout this.
Your watchmaker's house may getrobbed.
People don't really understand,like, how dangerous it is
sending your watch in forservice, right, even pros get

(08:56):
robbed.
Right, your watch gets robbedat Rolex.
You're fine, right?
I know it sounds like an insanething, but chain of custody
matters so much.
I mean, I've had issues withwatchmakers, albeit many years
ago, where you know I didn'tfeel safe with chain of custody
and I immediately seizedbusiness right.
It's also there's only from mywatches.
Maybe if they had 25 watches,10 were mine, the other 15 were

(09:19):
clients I can't, I can't feelunsafe, I can't, I can't.
So there is a lot of maybeunappreciated to the community,
but real value to that program.
I sound like a spokesperson,I'm certainly not, but anyway
it's just interesting You'rewearing a Rolex hat.
But we're going to make a watch.

Blake Rea (09:42):
One could be confused .
But no, no, no, no.
And then, um, you know, if youlook at to like the cpo program,
like two years ago or howeverlong it started to go, prices
were astronomical, no doubt, andnow you are paying a little bit
more.
You know, and I would say a lotof the watches that I've looked

(10:03):
at on the cpo program, if Iwere to buy them through like a
legit, like secondhand dealerand then send them off to Rolex,
it would be the same.
It would be the same, except Idon't have to wait.
It's the same.

Christian Zeron (10:16):
You're exactly right.
I don't think that people byand large, in any space, be it
hobby or be it, you knowanything, politics, anything.
People don't do a good jobunderstanding the different
sensitivities of other people inthe world.
They just don't right.
I don't send my watches intoRolex service like you do.

(10:37):
I don't do that right.
But I am fully aware that notonly you do do it, but why you
do it, and that makes sense.
Many people say, oh, that'sridiculous, that's so stupid.
Well, how about?
There are thousands andhundreds of thousands of people
that would engage that sameconsumer behavior, right?
That's not stupid.
Maybe you don't understand it,you don't relate to it, fine,
but it's not stupid.

(10:57):
Rolex is providing a servicethat they clearly firmly believe
satisfies the desired journeyfor a large portion of the
market.
The watch community often feelslike we live at the center of
everything.
No, I mean, the normal personthat is not hyper-invested in
watches actually represents waymore, financially speaking, than

(11:21):
the watch guy.

Blake Rea (11:23):
Yeah, and my stance on it has changed recently,
where I had, um, I picked uplike a speedmaster mark ii and I
took it to my local watchrepair guy and they serviced it.
Um, anyways, they were like I,I wanted to change the dial,
like I wanted some, I wantedloom.
Like you know this, these dialsobviously atridium, they're not

(11:45):
working anymore.
They changed the hands, right,so the hands work, but the dial
didn't.
And I was like this is gonnalike fuck with me, like you know
, like I have to change this um,so, anyways, uh, at some point
I plan to send it to omega andhave it serviced and do all this
.
Um, and at which point I did,you know I did send it to omega,

(12:05):
mind you, the watch was gonefor like six months and I have
it back now, thank god.
But, uh, but he charged meliterally the exact same amount
of money that I would have paidto omega and, you know, give you
his random like off-the-shelfwarranty, you know, which is
probably good for nothing.
And not to mention, you know ithad a lot of issues with the

(12:28):
amplitude, you know.
So it wasn't healthy, it wasn'ta healthy service you know,
it's a very tricky business.

Christian Zeron (12:34):
I mean I can't tell you how many times I have,
you know, dreamed, or whateverdaydreamed about if I had gone
into the diamond or jewelrybusiness 10 years ago as opposed
to watches how many fewerheadaches I would have.
It's true, it's a huge pain inthe ass.
It's a huge pain in the ass atscale as an owner.

(12:54):
It's not as an owner.
You've got a collection of one,two, three watches.
Something's gone for six months.
It's not really a big deal.
It's not right.
I mean you just wear your otherwatches, it's fine.
But when you are on thebusiness end of it, particularly
when you're not the oneactually doing the service but
you are providing a service ormiddlemanning a service and
whatever it is such a headache.

(13:14):
I mean I turn down servicerequests all the time.
I just can't.
It's not worth it for me.
I mean the amount of money thatI would need to charge a client
for a service to be worth itwould be so ludicrous because of
factoring in just the sheerstress value.
I mean it's insane, it's justnot worth it.
It's not worth it.
I mean I do it for some clientsas a gesture, meaning if you've

(13:36):
purchased a watch, of course,but I'm talking about people
that hadn't purchased watchesfrom us, that want to send
something in.
If I think I can help and itwill be relatively easy, I'll do
it.
Otherwise I can't.
I can't, you can't do it.
It's too much of a headache.
It's too much of a headache.
You know.
These are antiques.
These are complex, micromechanical antiques.
Fuck off, you know.

Blake Rea (13:54):
This is hard, this is hard, you know how did you
decide to just jump right intovintage?
Because usually vintage iswhere people kind of land after
going through like the new, thenew watches, new collections,
and they're like, hey look, thisis all boring, there's a lot
more character and vintage yeahyou know what I mean I uh, you

(14:18):
know I grew up, um, you know Igrew up in an old, an old family
.

Christian Zeron (14:22):
I mean I, technically speaking, I have
cousins that are peers now, butgrowing up I didn't see them or
speak to them, nothing, right.
My whole family was old.
So everything I would hear,every story I would hear, every
article of clothing that Ithought was cool and interesting

(14:42):
were being worn by my unclesand and and and.
The answer the music or therecords or whatever.
I mean.
You know, I was just laughingjust the other day because I had
a buddy that I see about once ayear come over my apartment, uh
, and we drank martinis and we,you know, laughed and whatever.
We threw a little bit of a, alittle bit of a party, and I had
another buddy come by to meethim for the first time.

(15:04):
Little bit of a, a little bitof a party.
And I had another buddy come byto meet him for the first time
and my other buddy goes wow,joe's a Joe's, a great guy.
Huh, I said, yeah, you knowwhat's funny?
In college people didn't findhim nearly as interesting as I
did.
I found this guy incrediblytalented, well-dressed, he could
sing opera at midnight wheneveryone else was right.
I always found that so cool.

(15:26):
You know, I found that to bethe embodiment of you know that.
You know that Rat Pack, youknow, swagger, you know.
And at the big college everyonethought it was boring and weird
and whatever.
But you know, I guess it's just.
I had grown up in that spacewhere what you know, my North
Star for what cool was, was verydifferent.
Right, I mean, I wantedvirtually nothing to do with

(15:49):
music or clothing or whatever.
This is young for me.
I'm wearing a golf polo.
This is a new era of Christianwhere I'm trying to act my age a
little bit.
But no, growing up, that's notwhat I wanted to do at all.
I wanted to wear.
I thought that jeans were forkids and men wore slacks.
And how dare you show up to aSunday wearing jeans and you

(16:10):
wear a sweater?
And that was it.
I mean, I couldn't wait to get awatch.
I couldn't wait to.
You know, I used to remembersitting at holidays and
imagining, like fantasizing, ifone of my uncles were to give me
his, see me admiring it andgive it to me.
That would never happen, but Iused to think about that all the
time.
Oh what, wow, could you imagine?
You took that off his wrist andgave it to me.

(16:32):
You know, you know, I justalways, uh, I idolized my uncles
and um, and that's it.
I never even considered modern,never now I like modern watches
, but I never even considered itbefore, before I really got
into watches.

Blake Rea (16:45):
It's, it's crazy to think about it like that Cause
the vintage market at least.
So I have a.
I have a hard time,particularly buying vintage
watches, because you just haveto find that needle in a
haystack.
You know, I'm sure you probablygo through that every day.
You know sourcing and curatingwatches for you know your

(17:06):
clients and your shop, but everysingle day I just see so much
junk out there.
You know, like people that havelike these, like super fake
repainted dials or you know,just, I mean this unknown
service histories or I findvintage so much more predictable

(17:27):
than modern.

Christian Zeron (17:29):
I find the opposite right, because if you
know about vintage, if you knowwhat a dial looks like, you know
what cases will look like, youcan detect real from fake.
You can sift with modern, thesesuper clones.
I want nothing to do with it.
When I get messages hey, youwant to buy my new Explorer?
Zero percent chance Zero.

(17:50):
I have no interest in it.
None, it's too big of a risk,it's too much of a pain in my
ass.
I now have to go bring it tothis watchmaker to inspect it
over a period, whereas if I buya vintage Omega from you, I know
from the get on my own thatthis is real.
I know it from pictures.
Right, then I can open it upand see the move.
I know everything is real.
I can understand that thisneeds a service.

(18:12):
I can throw it on a timegrapher and know that it needs a
service.
That's fine, that's nothing.
So that means that, okay, Icould pay this guy now he sent
in the watch.
I could pay him.
I could give him his $1,200 or$1,500 or whatever and move on
From there.
It's my business how long ittakes me to get the service.
It could take me six months.
I don't care, it means nothingto me how long it takes.
I'm no longer responsible tothe person that sent the watch

(18:34):
in, whereas a modern watch okay,you sent me a watch in.
Now, within the next 72 hours,I need to have this inspected
and I'm taking a risk because Idon't.
I don't, I'm trusting the, I'mtrusting the, the, the, the, the

(18:54):
time and attention that awatchmaker put into discerning
these incredible clones fromreal, fuck that all for 500
bucks, no thanks, no thanks.
You know I can, you know I canturn tricks in the subway and,
and you know, and make moremoney.
It's insane.
I mean it's, it's, it's notworth it.
You know I, I hate that, thathustle aspect of the game.

Blake Rea (19:13):
I generally will go to uh, to Turkey at least once a
year and I just came back inOctober and um, and you know
I'll spend a lot of time youeducate myself going through the
markets and looking at thefakes and seeing the new
generation of fakes andparticularly this year I was

(19:38):
very scared to see.
It's astonishing.

Christian Zeron (19:42):
I held a watch last week it was a 5711, a
paddock nautilus in rose goldwith a ruby bezel and ruby
indices.
Okay, this watch is made.
It's a real model.
Yeah, yeah, it's a $200,000watch that sells secondhand for
$450,000.

(20:03):
Okay, the fake, which waspresented to me as a fake, by
the way, the dealer knew it wasfake and just wanted to see if I
had a client for it.
All with consent, right, and Idon't have a client for that,
but I was interested in thewatch, I just wanted to see it.
So it is solid, 18-karat rosegold.
The bracelet is fantastic, theclasp is fantastic, the movement

(20:26):
is a real Patek Philippemovement, the correct movement,
whatever that reference is,whatever that model is to go
into that watch.
And the rubies are real,everything is right.
It's real gold, real rubies,although not made by Patek, not
right, cut by Patek, not set byPatek, and an actual, real
movement, right, the watch was$35,000.

(20:49):
It's a $35,000 fake watch.
The date placement was correct.
Everything, naturally, is theright movement, right.
That used to be the way youcould tell the fake Nautilus
from the real Nautilus.
The date placement yeah, Ilooked at this and I said I
cannot believe, I can't.
I couldn't even believe it.
I would have gone to my head.

(21:11):
I would have bet it was realwithin the right context.
If I saw the right personwearing that watch I 100 I'd say
that was a real watch.
I picked it up.
It's real gold.
None of that color, none ofthat cheap place.
That nope, it's fucking nuts Idon't.

Blake Rea (21:28):
I don't understand.
I have a hard time like sittinghere deciding what type of
customer would spend 30, 40 000on a watch knowingly fake watch
um, when you could just buy, Imean, a daytona or whatever.

Christian Zeron (21:46):
You know we're saying before right, try to put
ourselves in the shoes of theseother sorts of clients.
Right, I would never do it, youwould never do it.
Fine, but think about it.
I mean there's a whole world ofpeople I think of, I mean as an
abstract.
Think of miami, right.
Um, whole world of people Ithink of, I mean as an abstract.
Think of Miami, right, wholeworld of people that actually
are high income earners byanyone's standard.
They actually do make plenty ofmoney, right, they're

(22:07):
successful by any measure, right, a lot of these people, but you
are still fronting this life.
That is two, three, five, 10, 15, 20 times right, the levels of
success, probably to attractmore success.
Right, it's not evennecessarily which the stereotype
would be this downward spiralof keeping up with the Joneses.

(22:29):
There actually could be a levelof function, right, that's why
people buy certain cars or leasecertain cars, right, I mean,
you know certain pieces of realestate in prime location for
retail space, right, so I canunderstand why not just one
person but a whole world ofpeople would say holy shit,
right, it's a real movement,it's an aftermarket bracelet,

(22:56):
fine, real rubies, andeveryone's going to think that,
and no one will ever tell it hasno resale value.
But who cares?
Or it has, let's say, $15,000or $10,000 in resale value,
right, frankly, there's just asmuch risk in a real panic,
$10,000 or $15,000 in potentialdownside.
So I can see a whole world ofpeople saying you know what this

(23:16):
makes sense.
It's not the same cheap fakeanymore.
The larger argument, I think, isa moral argument, right, not to
say that luxury companies arein the clear, right, our phones
and our cars, right, arecertainly not necessarily moral
products.
But the fake industry doesfunnel to terrorism, right?

(23:38):
I mean, the evidence is prettylaid out and that's a moral.
It's a more of a moralobjection.
But other than that, on anotherwise logical level, a lot
of people, I think, would bitethat bullet and say you know
what?
I could have a half a milliondollar watch on my wrist for 30
grand, not bad, it's crazy.

Blake Rea (23:58):
And then, as they're trying to sell you their get
rich quick courses, yep, yep,yep.

Christian Zeron (24:05):
You know it's freaking nuts man, it's freaking
nuts um, I'm curious to getyour take.

Blake Rea (24:13):
And let let's get back here to you know your
vintage collection, theo andharris, you know, obviously
you're all in on vintage.
Uh, what do you feel is specialabout vintage watches, you know
, or makes them more collectiblethan modern watches?

Christian Zeron (24:31):
and your and your take well, you know, I mean
collectability is, uh, you knowit's just a intersection of, I
mean, desirability and rarity,right, I mean if something is,
if something ticks a certainamount of boxes that makes it
desirable, boxes would be, youknow, independent variables that
are nice, right, like a giltdial, certain sizing right.

(24:54):
A watch of 36 millimeters up indiameter is more collectible
than 30 to 35, generallyspeaking, right, obviously,
brand right.
All these different littlevariables can make something on
its face desirable.
But then what vintage also has,is that rarity aspect, right?
That modern, simply generallyspeaking, does not right.

(25:15):
You don't need that many peoplein the world to be bidding on a
Cartier.
You need like five nut jobs,that's it, whereas with a modern
market you need thousands andthousands and thousands of
people agreeing that this isworth more money.
I mean, some of the resultswe've seen in Cartier recently

(25:36):
are a fantastic example.
We've seen Quartz from the 90s.
Have you seen this quartzCartier's at auction go for over
$65,000.
I mean, that is absolutelyunheard of, unheard of,
unprojected by anybody.
Um, but it is what it is,that's it.

Blake Rea (25:59):
I have friends that go down the rabbit hole and
watch the auction market and doall this.
I just never really got into it, especially considering a lot
of the controversy that happenswith some of these auction
houses and how they source theirwatches and how they
misrepresent them.

(26:20):
To me it's just something Iavoid.
You know I'm 100 tucked in withthe new brands.
You know I'm doing press withwith brands and you know,
contracted by brands and youknow talking about new products
and you know giving my honesttake.
You know if I get a script, I'mnot doing.
You know giving my honest take.
You know if I get a script, I'mnot doing it.

(26:41):
You know, or, um, and I haven'treally opened the door to
vintage, which is, you know,we've had a couple of vintage
guys here on the show.
Um, we had, you know, uh,cameron Barr from craft and
tailored came on um, now, youright, um, we also had some of
the, the tiktokers that do thenegotiation, negotiation stuff

(27:03):
in new york and uh, and they'rethey're huge on vintage, um, but
it's it's a world that that I'mslowly getting into.
Um, and you know, to me, likeone of my first purchases, uh
was actually a vintage watch,like my first luxury watch
purchase was at that time.

(27:23):
Was, uh, a speedmaster reduced?
you know, when those things werelike 900 bucks.

Christian Zeron (27:30):
Yeah, awesome, I know you can say that about
almost anything these days,though, right, I mean you know
it's it's wild, um, howrelatively speaking affordable
these collectible watches were.
I mean it's, it's crazy, youknow, no one, no one knew, and,
and most people you know, I meanI look back sometimes and I see
some of these watches that havenow doubled, triple, quadrupled

(27:50):
in value and I say, oh yeah, Isold it at four grand, so I
don't deserve it at 12.
Right, I mean I didn't evenlike it.
Four thousand dollars worth,right, I mean you know, uh, it
is what it is.
You know I had that with manycartiers.
I've owned you know many cartierwatches.
For someone that's not in theworld of like top tier cartier
collecting, right, I'm in likethe very you know, uh, at like

(28:13):
relatively speaking, average guycartier collecting.
There are people out there withyou know rare londons and they
have 15 of them and they havecrashes and they have all this
stuff.
No, but I did own basically allof the really cool you know
middle of the road Cartierwatches.
Right, I owned all thedifferent references of Santos
and I owned, you know all allthe different thicknesses.
I've run all the Louise.

(28:33):
I mean I own kind of all ofthem at some point or another.
You know and I you know what Iended up keeping.
And again before, right beforeI really knew anything, I kept a
swiss dial tank normal and Istill wear it and I love it,
which is basically the most.
It was one of the leastcollectible cartiers I've ever
owned and I kept it because Ilove it.

(28:54):
I love it, I love that watch.
I think it is a perfect case.
The condition is great and eventhough the dial says swiss,
which means it's, you know, halfthe value, half the value of
paris, I don't care who gives ashit right, I mean, yeah, you
know, it's not for me, that'snot for me I, I've, I've started
recently, um, for my vintagejourney, like I started with

(29:18):
omega because omega is arelatively easy brand to get
into into the vintage space.

Blake Rea (29:24):
They've got great resources online, they've got a
great community, uh, a lot ofpeople.
I mean there's a lot ofconsistency between, like, the
movements, the markings.
It's pretty easy for a novicevintage collector like me, um,
and yeah, I started with that,uh, that reduced um, and then I

(29:46):
went into the mark ii, thespeedmaster mark ii, which you
know has a weirdly cult likefollowing because it was like it
was the moon watch that wassupposed to be the moon watch
yep, um, and then recently Ipicked up one of the uh, the
seamaster soccer timers thoseare great, it's awesome.
Um, and yeah, I picked it up ata vintage watch show.

(30:09):
There's a vintage watch showthat comes to town every year
and, uh, and I picked, I mean Ijust, you know, it was like
three thousand dollars cheaperthan what they were trading for.
You know, I was like okay, likeI guess I have to buy this
right, um, and then I picked uprecently one of those, uh,
lejour, like by hoyer, like uh,like chronograph, like seven

(30:31):
thousands or whatever, um, whichagain was just stupid cheap,
you know, yeah there's still, Imean, some affordable stuff on
the market.

Christian Zeron (30:41):
That's really interesting.
I mean I, um, I've literallybegun collecting ladies watches
over the last year and a half orso.
Um, because they're incredible.
I mean, some I'll wear, some Iwon't.
Uh, I, um, I I've given my momto lady date just presidents the
yellow gold with differentdials.

(31:01):
I got her an Onyx and then Ijust recently got her an orange
Stella.
If that was a men's watch, thatwould be a, you know, $50,000
watch, $70,000 watch, you know.
But it's not, it's a lady'swatch, you know, it's a small
fraction of the price, you know,and I think it's just as
interesting and just asbeautiful.
Now, that watch I won't wearthat watch is too feminine for

(31:24):
me.
But I find that some vintageCartier, some vintage Patek on
leather straps, I wear them andthey feel like bracelets as
opposed to very small watches,and I love them.
I mean I bought a Patek Ellipselast week that I did not buy
for myself, I bought it to sellat some point and I got it, I
put it on and I said, well,that's it, this is staying.

(31:46):
I mean it's just an incredibledial, incredible case, very
similar to Cartier Benoit and Ilove Cartier, but it's Patek and
I think it's more beautifulactually than the Benoit.
I think it's actually prettier.
The dial is incredible and thereally sharp, uh, uh, dauphine
hands, as opposed to the uh,thinner blue sword, right, uh,

(32:07):
cartier, I think it's perfect.
It couldn't be better and it'sright, for the same price as a
omega speed master, right, Imean, uh, which is fantastic,
you know.
So it's a's, a, it's a, it's aattainable luxury price point,
right, relatively speaking.
Long jeans is even moreattainable, right, but it's an
attainable luxury price point,relatively speaking.

(32:28):
It's not Daytona money, it'snot right, day-date money, it's.
It's just, you know it's.
It's it's in the, in the worldof the entry level of luxury,
and yet I don't think the watchis entry level luxury and the
watches, the watches, you knowgraduated luxury.
You know it's, it's so cool,you know it's so fricking cool.

Blake Rea (32:53):
So I love that stuff.
You know, I know it's not foreverybody, but I love that stuff
.
I, I, um, I recently, I thinkit was in March or January I
went to uh, this is Zenithfactory and I got like a tour
and we put like a little YouTubevideo up.
So, people, it doesn't get alot of love, like I'm a new
YouTuber, but but no, no, no.
So we got a chance to kind ofshowcase off the factory film
there, learn about their design,sit down with their product

(33:15):
officer.
I think, if you're, if if ourlisteners are listening to this,
zenith was before Christianhere, the chief product officer.
But it's such a brand that hassuch a unique history.
I mean, if you really look backat their history, they were the
first brand to truly understandand set up their manufacturer

(33:39):
to be in-house.
You know, like where they had17, 18, whatever different
buildings.

Christian Zeron (33:45):
And their production remains small.
What are they?
14,000 watches a year, orsomething.

Blake Rea (33:50):
No, I think it's like 30.

Christian Zeron (33:52):
I asked on the last podcast.

Blake Rea (33:58):
It's somewhere around 27, 30, somewhere around there.
And then I think you had put anepisode out where you were
talking to michael um, and youknow I think michael was getting
ready to like sell all of hiswatches and just buy a daytona,
right or something, and you werelike trying to like swayed him
into.
I wouldn't say it was like youknow, but you talked a lot about

(34:20):
like the five digit, like theZenith Daytona, like how you
know Zenith is super tiny andhow there's just such a limited
amount of those Daytonas outthere and the future of
collectability.
And I was like I reallyresonated with that and the

(34:43):
Zenith Daytonas are exceptional,an exceptional value,
especially the two tones.
Right now, like they're insanelycheap.
And so I find myself now kindof going full circle and looking
at vintage zenith.
You know, like to me it's just,I mean they have, they have
some crazy out of the box shitthat like nobody appreciated.

(35:07):
Um and I I bought a 386, like a386 chrono master, uh, before
they revived it yeah, right andyou, I mean you see how, like
that shit, just I mean shot up.

Christian Zeron (35:23):
You know, the only, yeah, the only problem
with zenith is, you know, whichis a good thing, but because
they manufactured so few,relatively speaking, you don't
need that many people that loveit to drive the prices up, right
, I mean, you know they're, uh,you, I remember getting into
this 10 years ago and you knowI'm not a sports watch guy so I

(35:44):
never really bought them.
But I remember seeing, I meanwild, tropical, even yellow gold
El Primeros and saying, ah,that's just one of the most
incredible watches in the world.
And they were, you know, oftenunder $10,000.
That was $10,000, right, less,you know even less.
You know, often under 10,000,that was $10,000, right, less,

(36:04):
you know even less.
And I remember saying, like thatjust seems like not a lot of
money for something like that.
Is that important?
Because I knew, I mean, Iunderstood the value of the
brand and the quality of it.
So I was just like, wow, Ican't believe that these aren't
more money.
And sure as shit.
Of course, right, as soon asyou say that, right, everything
goes up.
But that's the nature of thegame, right?
I mean, if something is oflimited production, that's it.

(36:24):
You don't need that big of acultural shift.
You know it's.
You know Lord of the Rings fansout there right that the eye of
Sauron just goes right on topof a particular you know
collecting class or category.

Blake Rea (36:39):
And that's it, it's over, it's over, you're screwed
know, uh, collecting class orcategory and that's it, it's
over, it's over, you're screwed.
I I had that recently, um,where I talked about the reasons
why I purchased a mark 18, likeiwc mark 18 over the mark 20,
and then, you know, when I wastalking about them, they were
trading for like like two and ahalf grand.
You know which is a steal, youknow.

(37:00):
And now, sure as shit, thisthing's like three and a half
grand.
You know which is a steal, youknow.
And now, sure as shit, thisthing's like three and a half,
four grand, like almost at thesame price as as the new mark
20s.
Yeah, and, and I need to be alittle bit careful about what I
talk- about on the internet.

Christian Zeron (37:14):
It's crazy, it's crazy, it's crazy.
It cost us money.
Yeah, yeah, it's really wild um, I'm curious.

Blake Rea (37:24):
I I do know a lot of our listeners are kind of in the
same bucket as me.
You know they're.
They're guys that are buyingnew watches, have questions
about vintage watches, not quitesure.
Um, what advice would you giveto somebody who's looking to to
dip their toe into vintage or toto purchase their first vintage

(37:44):
watch?
Like, where would you start?
You know, knowing what you knowas a buyer?

Christian Zeron (37:49):
Yeah, it's.
You know it's a good question.
I mean I think that Instagramis just one of the best places
to start any watch journey,right.
I mean searching through thosehashtags of things you might
find interesting and start tofollow the hashtags and you
start to see how people arewearing these watches and how
they may look in differentlightings and different things
like that, you start to reallyget a you know sense.

(38:10):
For I mean, you can, you canessentially imagine or even just
visually speaking.
There's just so much data youcan gather before you make a
decision.
When I got into watches 10 yearsago, it was none of that.
You either liked the picture onGoogle or you didn't like the
picture on Google.
That was essentially it.
The resources were so limited.
If you wanted a picture ofCartier-Cintre 12 years ago, you

(38:32):
had to go buy a book.
There weren't photos online.
I mean there were a couple, butwhat were there?
Seven.
It's not really getting youanywhere.
I mean there were a couple, butwhat were there?
Seven.
You know it's not reallygetting you anywhere Right now.
Any watch you want to examineor look closer at, you know you
could get hundreds, thousands ofphotos online of you know,

(38:54):
different perspectives anddifferent thoughts.
Right, and once you go into thecomments section you start to
really see things.
Once you go into the commentsection, you start to really see
things.

Blake Rea (39:00):
That's where I think collectors, particularly in
vintage have a great opportunitythat we just didn't have, you
know, 10 years ago.
What would you feel like?
I mean, actually, I don't thinkI would ask this question
because it's just going toallude back to what we just
talked about.
I was going to ask you what doyou think are some underrated

(39:23):
vintage buys?

Christian Zeron (39:25):
yeah, and we just talked about, like it's
tough, I mean, I still think,again, it's it's just style
dependent obviously, but um, I'mbig into, I mean, my style kind
of is, yeah, relativelyspeaking, unpopular.
Um, I like, uh, I like a lot ofgold watches, be it on bracelet
or on leather watches,particularly from the, you know,

(39:49):
70s and 80s, even more so theyhave that very, you know, casino
Scorsese's, casino vibe.
That's how I grew up, that'swhat I always saw growing up,
and those watches have neverreally been given much spotlight
.
Right, just last year I boughta vintage concord right quartz
watch couldn't be a, you know,less popular, less interesting

(40:13):
watch to watch collectors.
I think that the, the braceletand the way that that's
manufacturing, the case size andthe thinness, I think, the dial
finishing, I think everythingis so fabulous.
I love that watch.
I think I paid $2,200 for awatch that I wear more often

(40:33):
than I wear my GMT right, andthose things are out there.
They're really out there at,you know, at you know, jewelry
exchanges, specifically, thosewatches always got melted down,
you know.
I mean, I have the real versionof it, which is the Polo, you
know, and those watches, when Ibought my Polo, I think I paid

(40:54):
seventy five hundred bucks maxthat watches, you know fourteen
thousand.
I have box papers, all thelinks.
I mean probably 15 000 bucks.
You know it's crazy.
And I always kind of askedmyself, uh, and it kind of
always lit a fire under my asswhen it came to buying something
, um, in the watch world.
Um, I'm on the fence about itnow and if it doubles it'll be

(41:19):
out of, be out of, you know,reach.
It'll be out of reach, it'll beno longer right.
I'll feel like I missed theboat.
So I'll buy it.
And again, I have a retail storeso it's easier to sell things.
But even if you don't have aretail store, you can still sell
things in the watch world.
But I never wanted to sleep onsomething and then miss it.
I didn't want that.
I knew that I wasn't sold onthe Polo when I bought it, but I

(41:43):
knew that I probably wasn'tgoing to lose any money, maybe a
couple hundred bucks, right inthe grand scheme, not bad for a
test run.
And if I didn't buy it and Iultimately regretted it, I would
be really, really sick, youknow.
So you have to be careful withthat stuff, right?
I mean, you know, indecision iscertainly bad in the watch

(42:04):
world you've been in hereselling vintage.
I mean I think you said likealmost 15 years now was it like
it's been 10 years since thecompany started?

Blake Rea (42:14):
okay, yeah, what have you seen?
Shift?

Christian Zeron (42:17):
I mean relatively, that is a long time
in the watch industry definitelyan early, early adopter,
relatively speaking, uh to thegrowth of the space what have
you seen like shift in thevintage market recently, um, and
where do you kind of project itgoing?
I mean it's certainly going tocontinue to go up.
I mean there's no, I have nodoubt about that.

(42:38):
It's just a matter of you knowwhich subclasses are going to do
the best.
I mean, that's really all.
I mean.
Cartier is going to continuegoing up.
If you want to buy a Cartier,buy a fucking Cartier, because
it's going to get worse andworse, and worse, and worse and
worse forever.
I truly believe that it's goingto get to the point where going
into a Cartier store isactually going to be the bargain

(42:59):
, whereas that was not the caseright three, five, ten years ago
.
You can get a vintage tank forcheap, relatively speaking, Not
anymore.
I think that I mean, obviously,you know dealers specifically
look at different pieces and tryto make them popular for profit
, right?

(43:20):
We see that with Ebel quite abit right, Ebel, whatever.
They had a relationship withZenith, I believe, at some point
.
Those watches are really goingquite a bit up.
Not everyone's style, maybe,but those watches have gone
quite a bit up.
You know, dealers, there's afine line between the
manipulation, right and you know, and giving something the

(43:42):
credit that it's due.
What is a fair market value forsomething before it becomes
inflated?
It's hard to say.
It's hard and it's almost noteven a question worth answering,
because it's not of paramountimportance to answer that
question.
There are probably moreinteresting questions that we
can ask ourselves and dig foranswers, Right, but I don't know

(44:03):
.
I mean, what's the right?
What is the?
What is the true value of aseventies tank Louis with an
elongated crown?
I don't know.
What does $10,000 get you inthe watch market?
Right, you need to start it's.
It's not going down, so youbetter off just answering other
questions.

(44:23):
You know, buy the watch if youwant it or don't if you don't.
But we have no control over itand our right criticism of the
value isn't going to changeanything.
It's not because plenty ofpeople have plenty of money and
that's not stopping.

Blake Rea (44:39):
I've noticed too, in a lot of your content that you
produce, you're aiming to setthe record straight on
misconceptions in the vintagewatch market, to produce content

(45:06):
to just to be transparent, toto give your take to, to dispel
some of the rumors or to helpkind of set the market.
Uh, like straight, like how,how has has that catapulted?
You know your mission it's agood question.

Christian Zeron (45:17):
I mean, you know, how do you find your
perspective and your voice?
And that implies you ever lookfor it at all, right, my, I mean
, this is a business, right?
So my income is not in any wayconsiderably impacted by the
success of a video or even twoor three videos, so it doesn't

(45:40):
really matter financially.
Um, in financially, right, um,the business is different.
It's a retail business.
I have other businesses, orthat's that right.
So that freedom definitelygives me the opportunity to have
a more.
You know, call it quirky, callit stupid, call it uh, unfocused
, but it's, I think I'm veryfocused.

(46:00):
It's just the weave, right?
I mean, it's just, it's just alot of different thoughts
happening at once and you try toconnect them all because there
are so many things happening atonce.
But that, that, that freedomallows me to do that, right, I
don't need to and I don't needto, and I certainly don't choose
to get in front of the cameraand, you know, spend a ton of
time practicing that hook.
Spend a ton of time practicingthat hook.

(46:20):
Spend a ton of time reallymapping out the thing.
I look at a subject, I see apiece of news, I read the piece
of news and I say, wow, what doI think about that?
All right, turn the camera on,let's, let's, let's give this a
go and that's really it.
I mean, if you watch our videos,you know our reviews are 10 to
15 minutes or 20 minutes.
What are there?
Two cuts, cuts, three cuts.

(46:42):
These are not videos that are,you know, of high production.
They're not right.
They really are.
Or the goal of them and I thinkthat the goal, you know, I
think we reach that goal tovarying degrees is is to Well,
one I genuinely do enjoy it andit keeps me relevant on the
Internet, right, which iscertainly of value, but the goal

(47:06):
is to just to communicate to arelatively small handful of
people that that I know what I'mtalking about.
It's not to get 30, 40, 50, 60thousand people clicking on.
Now, that's not to say thatI've done this the right way.
Right, I may have a much, youknow, better life and better
business if I took the otherroute.

(47:28):
I'm not saying that I've beenright about it right.
Maybe, if I took the route oflet's become the go-to business
for straps as opposed to strapsare an afterthought Maybe I'd be
making, you know, $60,000 amonth selling leather.
I don't know, right, I don'tknow.
I made my choices again andagain and again and I've

(47:50):
followed the paths that I thinkare true to me and true to my
ability and my intention.
That doesn't mean that I'mright.
Right, who the hell knows.
Right, my life it is absolutelypossible that my life would be

(48:14):
a lot better if I just got onTikTok earlier and slung scraps.
That is so true, right?
I mean, you know, I'm a youngguy, obviously, but I was sort
of stubborn and I never wantedto be looked at as an influencer
or YouTuber.
That's also part of why ourvideos are not very well
produced, because I never wantanyone, I want our videos to
give the sense that Christianjust sat down for 15 minutes out

(48:35):
of his day and gave you all ofhis thoughts on this, what he
thinks important issue, and Iwas going to go back to work.
Right, that's it.
Right.
If, if, if, I, if theproduction value and the
investment goes up considerably,one, it just doesn't even work.
Right, we would need a lot moreviews to pay for all of the
investment.
Right, and now I'm essentiallyrestarting a whole business, you

(49:00):
know.
Is that prudent?
You know, I don't know, right,I mean, I just, I'm a very
focused person and that meansthat you leave things on the
table.
You know there's no doubt,right?
I mean I again, I think I'vebeen clear, right, I could have
probably killed it on TikTok andmade fortunes, right, but I
didn't, and that's it is what itis.

(49:21):
You know, it is what it is.
I like the YouTube channel.
Anytime the YouTube channel hasbeen, I think, objectively bad,
meaning the production qualitywas to the point where it was.
Now, I mean, you know, negative.
Now it's affecting the companyin a negative manner and I'm not
enjoying it.
It's becoming a toxic place.
I fix it, right, maybe.

(49:43):
Maybe that can go on for a month, because any bad system can
last for a month before it'scorrected.
Right, I mean, a month is what?
Four videos, five videos.
I can record those five videosover two days.
So that means two days of baddecisions can impact, right, a
month of work, you know, I meanpeople have a hard time
understanding that sometimes.
I mean we were producing somepretty bad videos back in
September, october, for a bunchof reasons, and obviously it was

(50:06):
under my leadership, so it'sultimately my fault, but my team
was my team truly knew that Iwas busy and they truly didn't
give a shit.
I mean, they truly knew thatthey were going to get away with
producing shit.
That's just the truth of it,right?
I mean that's just the truth.
And, yeah, people got introuble.
I mean, that's just the truth.
And you know, people got introuble.
I mean, when I looked at myphone one day and I saw that,
you know, three, four, fivevideos had been released at a

(50:29):
you know so, subpar, underparwould mean they were great, but
so below the standard, I saidwait, are you guys what's going
on?
What did you guys know that Iwas?
You know, busy we can be, we canbe efficient with the, with the
, with the, with the channel,but it has to still be a

(50:49):
reflection, or reflect what weintend, which is, off the cuff,
intelligent or well-conceivedand passionate.
Those are the three things.
Everything else I don't care.
If we get 10,000 views or35,000 views, I really don't
care, it's fine.
But it needs to be those threethings, because when it is those

(51:13):
three things, the audience ishappy and they comment beautiful
things.
And I don't care if it's 11,000views or 30, it's fine.
I just want to produce aproduct that we are proud of.
That's it Now.
Obviously, if it was more tiedto our income, it would need to
be different, but that's theposition that we're in.
That's the long and thoroughway of answering your question.

Blake Rea (51:31):
I think that's what I really appreciate about the
content that you produce.
And I mean, again, I wouldn'tconsider myself a YouTuber.
I went to film school, I lovewatches, I have created some
videos on youtube, um, but youknow, everybody who has a
youtube like watch channel haslike, uh, like a secondary

(51:55):
motive, right, and they'retalking about the products that
they sell, you know, and they'repushing this brand or that
brand or whatever, whatever, orthey're doing it for like
clickbait, you know like, ohlike why like this happened to
my collection and, and you know,then I just don't I don't
respond to that, um, but your,your channel is more like a

(52:19):
watch think tank, that you'rekind of and that's the goal.

Christian Zeron (52:22):
That really is the goal.
I mean 100, I mean our lastview.
I just checked it.
Our last video got at themoment and this is like four
days old got 7.9 thousand views.
That is, that is underachievingon a metrics level, right?
100, right, our videos reallyshould get somewhere between 12
and 25 000.
That is, that is where weshould be and that's a big delta

(52:42):
, right, but that's where welike to be.
8,000 views I am so pleasedwith that video, relatively
speaking.
I thought it was lovely.
I thought it was a greatrepresentation of the company.
I thought it was great.
No one's in trouble because wegot 8,000 views.
I'm not hating myself.
I'm not mad at any editors.
I'm not mad at anyone that'sholding the camera.
Sure, everyone could have donetheir job a little bit better in

(53:05):
that video.
You could always do your job alittle bit better, right, but I
love it.
I love the video.
It was about Grail watches, andwhat does that mean?
Right?
I thought it was a really goodvideo.
I'm proud of it, so that,because, if I look at my phone

(53:28):
and I see that we've we'vereleased something under my name
with my face, right, that isbelow the standard which we've
set, which, by the way, is avery reasonable standard, as
I've already illustrated, right,and the reasons why that makes
it ruins not my day, it makes mesick.
It makes me sick.
You know I hate that, right.
I mean, the channel is supposedto be a very true window, a

(53:49):
clear window into my perspective.
So if it's a fucking mess, thenthat means that I'm a fucking
mess, right, that's no good,that's no good, you know that's
no good, that's no good, youknow.
So, anyway, I really do likethe channel.
I've been doing it for 10 years.
My mom asked me not too longago how long are you going to do
it for?
And I truly said and I don'tknow.

(54:10):
I haven't thought about it verylong or very hard, and I truly
said I don't know.
I could really see thisevolving over the next 20 years.
I mean, I really could, and Icould again, because we're not
so tied to views I could seethis evolving.
And depending on how long you'vebeen on the Theon Harris
channel for you know, you cansee that there's been so much
family content on it for so long.

(54:31):
I did talks with my dad overwine, which we almost never
talked about watches, right, Imean, I've been doing this stuff
for a while, you know, and evenour conversations about watches
are generally more abstract andphilosophical or whatever.
So I could see this channel in15 years as more of a family
podcast who knows, because itwill make me happy, maybe, right

(54:52):
, I mean, and I don't care if itgets 7,000 views or 30.
It doesn't matter, right, if it?
Who knows how it grows, whoknows?

Blake Rea (55:02):
But right now it's in the place that it ought to be.
I, I, I, I don't, I I've talkedto, like marketing agencies and
marketing companies and allthese people that kind of want
me to take, you know, my brand,into their direction and and and
kind of like help lasso thethings that we're doing and, uh,
I, I, I, I'm, a, I'm, I don'tknow if I'm ashamed to say I

(55:24):
don't even, I don't even reallylook at the metrics anymore,
like I, I know what I'm, whatI'm putting out there, you know,
like as as genuine, honestcontent, um, and you know, I'm
not paying professional editorsor anything like that.
Like everything, everythingcomes through me, like my hands
touch it, um, and, and there'svideos where, like I flew to

(55:48):
switzerland and, like you know,like the zenith video, like
where I spent, you know, hoursgoing to the zenith tour and
sitting down with their productofficer and the video on on
metrics got, you know, flopped,you know, and, um, and I'm just
like, well, it'll be thereforever, you know.
So maybe in a year it'll catchon you know you've created,
you've created something.

Christian Zeron (56:06):
There's something to be said about that.
I mean, you've, you've createdsomething.
You know and and you know beingintrospective about it there,
when we do films, when we dofilms with brands, I know, I
mean, you know, I, I I directthem, right, so I, I do feel
like I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm apart of that, um, but that's a

(56:27):
whole other, you know, at leastfor me, uh, like emotional
journey of we make videos.
I don't, I don't press play, Idon't export, I don't edit, I
don't post, I don't I've nevermade a thumbnail in my life,
right, edit, I don't post, I'venever made a thumbnail in my
life.
Every video costs me 600 bucksto make every single one, and

(56:50):
then we release somewherebetween five and 15 a month,
depending on the stage of thecompany and where it was at the
time.
Now we sell sponsorships, butit's still costing us a lot of
money to do that, and that'swithout bringing in any other
fees, like you know, accountspayable, and I'm just talking
about cold hard, right, uh,production costs and, um, you
know, I, I do sometimes feellike, uh, we, we don't make

(57:14):
anything right, like, like wewould get a lot of satisfaction
out of, you know, buildingsomething or doing something.
That's more tangible, right?
Because I see a video and it'sjust a video and there's ads in
it, and then there's YouTube adsin it, and what did I do?
I sat in front of a camera,right.
So I definitely do feel thatway on a level.
But when you do one of thosetrips where you travel, like you
did with Zenith, or when we doit with a different brand,

(57:36):
you're like, really physicallyinvolved in it, and that is
there's so much associated pride, and I think that's such an
important part of leading ahealthy life, right.
Forget about money, just health, you know.
So, anyway, that's what I think.

Blake Rea (57:51):
I'm curious because you brought up your YouTube
video and I haven't had the timeto see it yet.
Unfortunately, we're talkingabout grail watches.
What is one of those grailwatches Like?
I'm sure you probably havewatches out there your eye in
the market looking for the right, the right watch at the right
price like.

Christian Zeron (58:10):
Give us a taste of what a grail watch is to to
you well, well, the video takesa very different direction,
because it talks about what is agrail, watch, and and you know
what does a grail mean and allthose things.
So take a look at it, maybeyou'll like it, but I'll totally
watch it but the um.
You know, for me, um and I won'teven use the term, I wouldn't
personally use the term grailwatch, that's what the video is

(58:31):
about, um, but if we're justgoing to use it in the common
right common right, uh, meaningright, like the watch, uh, the
essentially the most expensivewatch that you intend on buying
and dream about, and whateverthe watch, that represents kind
of the end of the journey, notthat it will satiate you,
because God knows it won't, butunlike the Grail, but what would

(58:52):
that watch be?
I say it in the video, I meanit would certainly be a Patek,
it would be a complicated Patek.
It would be probably a 5970Perpet, perpetual counter, white
gold.
Right now it's like a $190,000watch, which is insane.
It's insane and I don't know ifI'll ever buy that watch.
Because, by the time that, if Icould buy a $190,000 watch, god

(59:17):
willing, and by the way, whatdoes that mean?
How much money do you need tohave to have to buy a $190 watch
?
That's a whole otherphilosophical question, right?
I mean that is a very expensivewatch.
It's also a pretty cheap boat,relatively speaking to the boats
that people buy.
Right, I mean you spend half amillion dollars on a boat and
that goes pretty fucking quick,right, and you lose a ton of
money on it every year, you know.

(59:38):
So that's a whole otherquestion that really just
invokes other people's opinionson your money, which is kind of
silly.
But let's just assume that youbuy that.
The next question is like doyour kids inherit that and
appreciate it?
And then the other question islike well, how does that factor

(01:00:00):
into an estate?
I don't know, I mean so.
So if my son is reallynostalgic about the watch which
I can appreciate because I'mvery nostalgic does that mean
that he's taking in portion hisadvance on on an estate?
I don't know.
I mean I can't help but tothink about all of the
downstream effects of thingslike that, because with the
watches that I have I could,relatively speaking, equally

(01:00:20):
distribute them amongst lovedones you know posthumously and
feel that I've offended nobody.
But what do you do with$200,000 watch?
It's insane, right?
Come on, I mean it's a wildthing.
So will I ever buy it?
I don't know.
And I don't know, I don't know.
I feel like by the time I couldbuy it, I probably it I
probably wouldn't.

Blake Rea (01:00:40):
I mean, that's probably what happens, you know
I I can't personally ever seemyself spending more than like
25 000 on a watch.
It's just that to me is liketell me you can't get a nice ass
watch for 25 grand like, if youI mean, come on like, let's be
real.
Um, if you could bring back anydiscontinued watch model, what

(01:01:04):
would it be and why?

Christian Zeron (01:01:06):
fantastic question.
Um wow, I've never been askedthat before I try and bring the
hard ones.
Man like this is some shit thatpeople want to know.
That's a very good one.
Um, bring back any discontinuedwatch model.
Which would it be, and why?
I mean?
Mean you know from theindividual?
Again, the question is hard,because not only does it force

(01:01:29):
you to think back very quickly,but more than that, it would, in
a level, take away from thefact that we can go buy a
vintage, right, I mean?
of course I wanted to bring backa Rolex Stella, right?
I mean and maybe that'sactually a good answer because
there's another logical layerthere I would bring back Rolex
Stella dials because the oldStella dials are actually,

(01:01:49):
generally speaking, not the bestwatches.
They're not right, the lacquerpaint chips.
That would never happen today.
It would never happen today.
I can see Rolex releasing acollection of Stella true enamel
very similar to the puzzle Okay, puzzle day date.
I can see them doing that in aday date collection in the

(01:02:11):
coming you know, five years even.
In fact, michael and I, a yearago or two years ago, talked
about how you had the collectionof colorful oyster perpetuals.
Then you had the celebrationand that was that was the
celebration of the end of thecolorful you know whatever.
And then they released thispuzzle again with all these

(01:02:32):
different colors.
Are they asking us to put thepuzzle pieces together and
project that they'll bereleasing enamel Day-Dates in
the coming years?
I think they are.
I think that's what we'll see.
They'll be really expensive,naturally, but Rolex has not
done enamel like that in a very,very oh.
Actually Rolex has almost neverdone enamel.
They've done it very sparinglybecause the Stella dials weren't

(01:02:53):
.
They were a lacquer, they werean enamel-looking lacquer right.
So that would be a great watchto bring back, because the
technology would be that muchbetter.
The watches would actually notonly just be heavier, but they
would be actually better watches.
So that's a good example.

Blake Rea (01:03:10):
And to fuel the conspiracy theory that now that
Rolex has Karl F Bucherer andthey have a high horology
department, Absolutely, theycould absolutely do it,
absolutely.

Christian Zeron (01:03:25):
I think that at some point, rolexlex will bring
back clauson a enamel right.
They would do that.
That would be in really, reallylow production.
Um, but I definitely see theseand these beautiful dials coming
out at some point.
Um, for the, it's well withintheir, their core competencies
what?

Blake Rea (01:03:42):
let's shift a little bit.
And uh, you know I got a couplemore questions here.
I know we're kind of reachingthe top of our time.
Um, what would you say?
Because, as a creator, I mean,it's pretty easy to get burned
down.
This industry.
There's just so many brandsreleasing so many different
products, like so much shit totalk about and, like you know,
you're kind of just like runningblind right, like Like that's

(01:04:02):
the way I feel, right, at leastI'm sure other creators and
people feel the same.
But what keeps you going andwhat inspires you most about,
you know, the watch industry.

Christian Zeron (01:04:13):
I mean I truly.
I mean, if you haven't noticed,I really do like to talk.
So being able to speak onYouTube is a meaningful part of
my life, right.
I mean, uh, people, you wouldnever guess that I'm actually
very soft-spoken in real life.
Um, I'm rather shy and I I, ifyou ever see me in an event,
unless you engage me I, orsomeone's engaged me, I'm

(01:04:36):
somewhat invisible, um, so so,so that is a huge part of what
keeps me going, um, that beingsaid, if I'm forced to make a
video by a schedule sponsor etcetera, um, and I don't have a
subject that I'm particularlyinterested in or I find very
profound, that is a.

(01:04:59):
You know, I mean that is justsuch a depressing experience,
right, having to get up thereand pretend as if this is an
interesting thought.
I take a lot of pride in mythoughts, so that's the worst.
I hate that, you know I also, Imean, if anyone that watches
the channel, I mean I give quitea bit of my own.

(01:05:19):
You know I not so subtlysprinkle quite a bit of my own
opinions about other things intomy videos.
I mean, you don't need to be agenius to kind of know exactly
where I stand on a wholemultitude of issues about.
You know about money or aboutanything about history.
I mean you don't need to reallybe that.
You know intuitive, right, andI love doing that.

(01:05:40):
I love it because not only do Iget to talk about watches but
other things that I'm reallypassionate about, right.
I mean, the Gorilla Watchconversation was a very, you
know, simple and innocent way tokind of expand and talk about,
you know, kind of like themeaning of life and human.
You know, inclination to bekind of insatiable, that's kind

(01:06:03):
of fun for me to talk about.
You know, I mean, be kind ofinsatiable, that is a kind of
fun for me to talk about.
You know, I mean that's thestuff that I listened to in my
spare time.
That's the stuff that I read,you know, um, you know I don't
read about.
I read far more books fromSupreme court justices than I do
about watches, you know, uh, so, uh, and sometimes I feel like
talking about watches is astupid waste of my time because
it's a silly thing to talk about, right.

(01:06:23):
So when I feel that I say, okay, maybe I'll bring something
into a video that is really, Ithink, more profound and
important than hey guys, youknow, rolex is releasing a new
watch this week, right, um, sonot every video has to have an
agenda.
Um, but, yeah, putting my ownperspective, of course, that
feels good.

(01:06:43):
Who doesn't want to be listenedto?
I mean, that's the most humanthing, right?
The most human desire, right?
Fundamentally, that's why, whenyou go on a date, the easiest
way to have a good date is justcome with a bunch of fucking
questions.
I mean, guys don't understandit.
Guys are terrible at datesbecause they just talk too much.
The fuck up and ask she'll loveit.

(01:07:04):
I mean, you think I like totalk.
Yeah, holy shit, talk to awoman on a date with a fire in
the background and a glass ofcabernet.
So what is it?
What's it like?
You know doing market researchor whatever it is that you do?
I mean it's a ton.
I mean it's, it's in the bag,you, you know?
So, um, yeah, who doesn't liketo be listened to?
So that's what keeps me going.

(01:07:25):
Um, yeah, that's what keeps megoing.

Blake Rea (01:07:29):
So final question, and I'm bringing out the big
guns Uh, you know, obviously youseem like you're a very
sentimental person and watchesare very romantic to you and uh,
and so obviously I'm sure youprobably thought about legacy,
you know.
So what type of legacy do youhope that theo and harris will

(01:07:51):
leave in the watch community?

Christian Zeron (01:07:54):
it's a great question.
Another question I reallyhaven't thought about um, I
think about my legacy all thetime, but, but I'm thinking
about Harris.

Blake Rea (01:08:01):
Well, I mean, they're one and the same right you are
a reflection of your brand.

Christian Zeron (01:08:05):
You're right.
Terrific question, I think,because legacy is tough, because

(01:08:35):
it implies that it's theprevailing narrative, and I
don't know about that.
The prevailing narrative willbe that, you know, at the view
on air's channel, without havingan emotional investment, right,
fifteen years from now, we'llsay, wow, it's funny how that
channel just didn't grow as fastas his competitors.
Right, I mean, it's true, right, that's you know, it's amazing

(01:08:57):
that Christian was so stubbornthat he just never got good at
YouTube.
That's probably a very fair,very fair and probably
prevailing opinion.
That being said, an opinionthat would be probably more
popular amongst people thatactually watch the channel and

(01:09:19):
cared that I and the company Imean I, it's, I right, because
it's the only constant um arejust a very good example of um,
of slow and steady progress withpersistence over a decade that
watched someone record videos inthe back of a red Jetta loudly
and then ended up kind of doingreally fucking well, and that's

(01:09:42):
really cool, because thecriticisms that I'm a you know,
you know they try to underminethe success that I'm a trust
fund kid.
It's nonsense, it's all onYouTube.
You just go back and dispelyour own.
I don't need to answer.
I mean, everyone knows.
I mean you know that that's nottrue.
You know that that's not true,that we just really kept our, I

(01:10:06):
really kept my focus for for avery long time and then tried to
parlay each nugget of successinto something larger that felt
more true to me.
So it's not, you know, it's notthe greatest success story.
I think that something that'sfar more dramatic and crazy is
Vukom, like you had mentioned,these TikTokers, right.
I mean they went from no one tomaking hundreds of thousands of

(01:10:28):
dollars overnight.
That was never me, ever.
I never really experienced wildsuccess in a compressed, you
know, period of time.
I mean you could just go watchYouTube.
I was doing it for 10 years,you know.
So so, yeah, I mean, for a realcritical point, a real critical
analysis of it would be wow,this fucking guy, just, you know

(01:10:50):
, really didn't give up.
I mean pretty fucking cool, youknow it's pretty fucking cool.
Good for him.
You know I, you know, and maybeI hope that you know my son is
that way, you know.
I mean that's, I hope that myson looks up to me the way that
he did to his father, right,because I talked about my father

(01:11:10):
, my grandfather, my mother, myappreciation and honoring my
family for so long that you knowthis.
This is all in many ways,because of that Right.
So that would be the the insidebaseball inside baseball.

Blake Rea (01:11:27):
I think look at why this matters down the road.
I couldn't agree more.
Um, thank you so much forcoming on.
I appreciate the time we spenttogether.
Um, of course, we're gonna tryand plug all the socials here in
the bottom of our podcast.
Uh, if you're looking for avintage watch, of course I would
implore you to check out hiswebsite, theone harris.
Their youtube channel isexceptional, exceptional, um,

(01:11:51):
and obviously I am a fan of your, your content, and I've been
watching for a long time and Iwill continue to do so.

Christian Zeron (01:11:58):
So thank you so much, blake.
It really means the world.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and um looking
forward to speaking again, man.

Blake Rea (01:12:04):
Yeah, yeah, totally, I'm sure I'll see you, either on
your side or, if you ever callhim, I'm, I'm in Vegas, I'm
actually I'll be in Vegas inJanuary.

Christian Zeron (01:12:14):
There you go.
Maybe we'll link up.

Blake Rea (01:12:15):
Let's do it.
All right, let's do it.
I'll shoot you.
I think I've got your phonenumber.

Christian Zeron (01:12:19):
I'll shoot you a text, I think it's my first
time in Vegas, so this should befun.

Blake Rea (01:12:24):
I could take you to all the vintage watch spots I'd
love that, I'd love that, let'sdo it.
There's a couple People comehere, lose their ass off and
pawn their watches.
I love that.
I'm one of those guys thatscoops them.

Christian Zeron (01:12:36):
Terrific man.