From Australia to the World: Building Panzera Watches with Andrew Herman

What happens when two Australian watch enthusiasts decide to challenge the status quo of luxury timepieces? Andrew Herman, co-founder of Panzera Watches, reveals the remarkable journey of building a global watch brand that's sold 300,000 watches across 100 countries without traditional retail channels.

Founded in 2009 with partner Roger Cooper, Panzera emerged from a simple frustration: quality watches were too expensive for regular collectors. Their solution? Cut out the middlemen, eliminate retail markups, and deliver watches directly to consumers. The result is a brand that offers bold, rugged timepieces at prices that don't require a second mortgage.

Andrew takes us behind the scenes of Panzera's evolution from their first Flieger-style watch to their current diverse lineup spanning Australian-assembled and Swiss-manufactured collections. We explore how they've maintained a distinct design identity—characterized by bold styling, exceptional water resistance, and versatile aesthetics—while expanding globally through e-commerce.

The conversation delves into fascinating territory as Andrew explains how Panzera achieves what seems impossible: delivering watches worldwide within seven days, providing 24/7 customer support, and offering Swiss-quality timepieces without the typical Swiss price tag. Unlike many luxury brands that inflate prices to cover celebrity endorsements and expensive boutiques, Panzera focuses on product quality and value.

For watch enthusiasts tired of babying precious timepieces, Panzera offers something refreshing—watches designed to be worn everywhere, from board meetings to beach adventures. As Blake puts it: "A watch you don't have to keep up with—it's designed to keep up with you." Whether you're new to watch collecting or a seasoned enthusiast, this conversation reveals how disruption in the watch industry benefits consumers who value quality, design, and accessibility.

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Http://panzerawatches.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Lonely Wrist podcast.
I am your host, of course.
As always, you've come to knowme, blake Ray, and today we've
got a special guest lined up.
We are actually sitting downwith Andrew Herman, who is one

(00:23):
half of Panzera Watches.
Founded in 2009 with hispartner, roger Cooper, panzera
is an Aussie brand at heart thatis built on bold design,
prioritizing rugged performancewhile not straying from

(00:44):
accessible pricing.
Rugged performance while notstraying from accessible pricing
.
So, without further ado, let mebring andrew into the
conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Welcome to the show, andrew hi blake, great to be
here.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Thanks for inviting me yeah, yeah, hopefully that
does some justice for you.
So I was like trying to thinkof what to say so, so funny
story um, I've owned a panzerwatch and I didn't know that.
Yeah, I didn't tell anybody, Ididn't tell anybody from from
the pr agency.

(01:15):
But, um, yeah, well, I kind ofwant you to start from the
beginning.
You know, 2009 like whatinspired the creation of the
brand.
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
okay, well, look, uh, I was a bit of a watch fan
since I've been a teenager, soI've always collected watches,
um, and so has a good friend ofmine, roger cooper, who we're
both friends for many years andwe're discussing it one day.
You know the fact that we lovecollecting watches.
But one of the frustratingthings about collecting watches

(01:50):
I think everyone experiencesthis is the high cost.
I mean, you can probably buyone a year, maybe one every few
months if you're wealthy, butsome people only buy one a
lifetime because the high costmakes it very prohibitive to
purchase.
And so we decided well, whatabout we start a brand?
To see if we can, not a brand,but to start a business that we

(02:11):
could actually source and findrelatively low costs but high
quality watches that we couldstart to build a collection from
in more volume.
So that's how the businessstarted.
We got together.
Roger was looking to startsomething new, he was working in
the retail space and we put ourheads together and thought this
could be good.
I actually had recentlypurchased a German brand of

(02:35):
watch that was quitecost-effective.
We thought why don't we try anddistribute those?
And we approached that brandand they said yes.
So we actually started off as awatch distribution company back
in 2009.
It wasn't long after that,though.
We decided, well, why don't wetake this to the next level and

(02:55):
see if we can produce our ownwatches?
And what we did was we producedour own watches and found they
were selling three or four toone what we were, the models
that we were actually sourcingfrom Germany.
So we realized we had a bit ofa success there, but in the
early days we were, you know,doing the traditional model of,

(03:19):
you know, going to retailers,going to distributors, going to
watch shows, trying to getpeople to take up watches and
put them in stores, and itworked to a certain point, but
it made us realise that the oneobjective which we really had,
which was to produce watchescost-effectively high-quality
watches cost-effectively wasthat the major overhead we were

(03:39):
facing was going through thetraditional retail channels,
which is go to a distributor, goto a retailer, let them put
them in the window, you know,hopefully they'll sell, and all
of those parts have costsassociated with them.
All of those have margin, and wethought if we could, you know,
maybe get a more direct model,we could achieve our goal of

(04:00):
producing more cost-effectivewatches without sacrificing the
quality.
And that's when the wonderfulworld of e-commerce came along
and we decided to go direct ofproducing more cost-effective
watches without sacrificing thequality.
And that's when the wonderfulworld of e-commerce came along
and we decided to go direct, andthat's where the whole thing
really took off for us.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah.
So I'm curious about you knowfrom what I read, your first
watch was a Flieger style watch.
Is that accurate?
That's correct.
How did that Fl fleeker watchevolve into?
You know what is now one of theair collections?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
that was an interesting one.
Um, what we did was we went outand we sort of found that a lot
of the concepts of fleekerwatches were actually public
domain designs.
So effectively, they were builtfor the German Air Force and
European Air Forces during thewar and that actually retained
that look which a lot of brandswere using.

(04:54):
And we thought, well, if we dothat, a, it'll be recognisable
and B, it was a really nicedesign watch, very clean, very
simple.
So we used a classic Flieger.
But since then we've evolvedthat into much, much more of our
own design and more recentlywe've added things like gmt
functions.
But it was originally designedto be true to the original

(05:15):
flieger design, which went backto the 1930s.
We thought that has a reallynice heritage to it and uh, but
also something that people canaffiliate, associate with.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, that's, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
And, and, yeah, those fleekerdesigns, I mean, uh, yeah, they
were, I guess, intellectualproperty of the.
I guess, yeah, it wasgovernment, right.
I mean they said, hey, lookhere, take this design language
and bring it to scale.
Um, funny, funny, funny.

(05:45):
And going back to kind of what Imentioned, um, you guys have
been doing tremendous work andand I don't say that very, very
often, but you guys were one ofthe, I think, like the third
watches that I owned, wow, andthat's, and it was super cool.

(06:06):
And I can't remember exactlyhow I found you, but, um, you
know, there, there wasn't a lotof independent micro brand
offerings at the time.
When I got into watches, likein the early 2010s, um, you know
, there was nobody really outthere, right, you know it was.
It became cool to start a watchbrand in like the later 2020

(06:29):
and so on and so forth.
Right, so everybody seems tohave this COVID-related watch
story, but I think I was lookingfor, like a Panerai alternative
.
You know, something with bold,clean design.
You know that has you, you know, great build quality, great
finishing, and I ended up, uh,with an aquamarine.

(06:50):
Yes, 45, that's somethingwhat's still today actually.
I think I think you guys hadsomething called like was it
like the scent was?
Did this?
Do I remember that correctly?
Was it like?
the awkward yeah yeah, yeah,that that was like that sounds
familiar.
Um, and yeah, yeah, I I don'tknow exactly what happened I had

(07:13):
some some weird watch, uh, someweird watch griefs where I've
lost watches and I've had someissues where watches gotten
stolen and and yeah, I sadlynever, sadly never, never, never
replaced it.
And I mean that was when I wore, I don't know, maybe like six
or seven years straight.

(07:35):
You know, I wore it for quite awhile and and yeah, it was a
great watch for me.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, I mean, that was that's.
One of the key reasons we'refocusing also on producing these
quality watches at a reasonableprice point is we want people
to be able to wear them.
There's so many people who havewatch collections that sit in a
box because they're so valuableor they're very sensitive
watches that can't go out.
But all of our watches arebuilt to be quite rugged and

(08:03):
watches you feel proud to beable to wear, but you can wear
them anywhere.
You know that's one of ourstrategies.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
I think you guys accomplished that as I was doing
my research for this podcast.
I mean, clearly we can tellyou're Australian from your
accent.
I'm glad to hear that.
Blake, you also touched a lotabout being like, I mean from
the the.
The copy that I got on thewebsite, like you guys are, are

(08:30):
not only from your.
You're from australia, butyou're proudly australian and
you try to bring australian intothe brand as much as you can.
Uh, so what?
What does it mean to be and?
I can't even think of reallyany other Australian watch
brands out there.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
So I'm curious.
There's only two or three and Ithink we're by far the dominant
one.
And look, part of owning awatch is owning something that's
a bit different.
I think that's something that'sa bit unusual about watches.
You don't go for necessarilythe mainstream all the time.
People like to have somethingthat's a bit unusual, something
that's a bit of a talking point,and being an Australian watch

(09:09):
brand certainly gives us that.
But if you look at our heritage, what we tried to do is bring a
bit of the Australiana into thewatch and that's you know.
If you look at the Australianlifestyle, it's about beaches,
it's about it's a big country,you know, a bit like the US.
It's got a fairly largeattitude to things.
So you know, watches a big bowl, they're all water resistant,
they're rugged, they're designedto go to the outback, they're

(09:32):
designed to go to the beach,they're designed to go
snorkeling off the coast,surfing all the things that we
like to do.
Uh, I think also fits in verywell with your california style
lifestyle too.
It's very similar yeah, yeahyeah, but uh yeah, we tried to
make a little bit of a strain,but you know we've had to.
We didn't want to be everythingto everyone.
I think, if you look at ourwatches, they are not for people

(09:53):
who like small, petite, uh,watches that wear you wear under
a sleeve.
It's designed more of a,something that stands out, um,
has a bold statement and uh you,and fits in with that sort of
rugged lifestyle that we havehere.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I'm curious to talk about.
If anybody's listening to anyone of our podcasts, we always,
whenever we have founders,co-founders, entrepreneurial
stories.
We usually love to talk aboutdesign.
We usually love to talk aboutdesign.
You know I can't do that withthe big boys, so I'm curious
about you.
Know how do you guys, how didyou guys adapt your design

(10:31):
language into you?
Know your air, land and seacollection and you know what
defines a Panzera watch to you?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, and Roger, yeah , well, look, it was actually a
lot of evolution.
We tried lots of differentthings.
Some worked and some didn't.
And we tried, you know, wetried some very minimalistic
watches which we had called theBrow Range, which did reasonably
well.
But then we found that, youknow, the one like you bought,
the Aquamarine and the flea,which are very big, bold watches

(11:05):
, really did a lot better.
And, uh, they ended up findingthe characteristics which, uh,
we had some very uniquecharacteristics like skeleton
hands.
Um, we had a very clear,concise numbering, um, without
necessarily using numbers allthe way around, but having very

(11:26):
clear indications, giving itthat sort of a feel of but that
has commonality between apilot's watch and a dive watch,
which is easy to read, very bigdials, concise numbering, not
too much clutter, and we foundthat was working for us.
So we've ended up coming upwith a sort of a formula that

(11:46):
works really well for us, andthen we've added a couple of new
ranges, such as the Clasivo,which has given it a bit more of
a classical feel.
But so, once again, big, boldstyling in that watch, even
though it's more of a classicaldesign.
So we found some recipes, Isuppose, along the way that
worked for us, others didn't,and some of our watches have
fallen off the range as we goalong because when we started

(12:11):
out we tried different thingsthat didn't work.
But we're now on a very firmtrack now where we know exactly
what works and what ourcustomers like and what we stand
for.
And, as I said earlier, wedon't want to be everything to
everyone.
We want to be someone thatproduces a watch in a style that
has this Panzero feel to it,which is this sort of big, bold,
rugged, clear, easy-to-readtype watch that you can sort of

(12:34):
wear to a dress function butalso wear it when you go to the
beach.
You know that's our style.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, I'm curious.
It seems like you guys I mean,as you know, I was doing again
more research for this podcast,like you know, in the early days

(12:59):
I mean you guys are now notonly have you been making
incredible watches for a while,but now you guys are going up
market, Like you have somereally, what I would define as,
like you know, high end watches.
You know specifically like the45C, right?
Yes, that's a $4,000 watch, youknow, yes, and yeah, so you
also have.
I think, from my understanding,you're kind of like juggling,
not only being like, I guess isit assembled in Australia?

(13:22):
Do I understand that, right?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, yes, the majority of our watches are
assembled in Australia.
Did I understand that right?
Yes, yes, the majority of ourwatches are assembled in
Australia, but we have a numberalso assembled, which you've
raised, like the Ackermann 45Cin Switzerland.
Wow.
And we went down that trackbecause we realized that we did
a bit of an experiment.
To start with, we weren't surehow well accepted Panzer would

(13:43):
be as a Swiss-manufactured watch, but we set up an operation in
Switzerland and it's reallytaken off big time because there
are people that especiallypeople like yourself, who've
tried the Australian watches andnow want something higher end.
There is that association thatpeople like to have in owning a
Swiss watch.
We don't want them to have tomove away from Panzer to

(14:05):
experience that.
And now the Aquaman 45C, whichis our most expensive watch, is
also one of our best sellers.
So it's quite interesting thatthat high-end thing has taken
off for us really well.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, I mean that is great.
I mean you definitely have thebalance right, because there are
people that do want a Swisslabel right, absolutely, for
whatever reason Not necessarilythe meat, it doesn't mean that
it's better, but I think there'sthat perception now.
I mean there's great watches,you know, that are made all
around the world.

(14:38):
You know China.
There's some high-end brandsthat are coming out of China
right now.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
China's watches can be considered very you know,
very good quality, if you getthe right ones.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, yeah it's, it's insane.
So I'm curious to you know allof our podcasts.
We also talk about theentrepreneurial spirit, the
journey you know as of right now, from what I've read, you guys
have sold almost 300,000 watchesin 100 countries and you did it

(15:12):
pretty much all by yourself.
You know everybody wants that.
I'm sure there's going to be alot of people listening that are
probably saying how the helldid you do that?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Well, it certainly wasn't an easy road, but I think
the whole revolution was theability to leverage the
e-commerce channel, basicallyselling through social media and
Facebook and moving away fromthe traditional bricks and
mortar style sales.
Because it hasn't been an easyslog.

(15:45):
I mean, we've had a lot ofchallenges Getting someone to
buy a watch without seeing itfrom Australia, when most of our
biggest market is the US, with50% of our sales there.
To get people from the US topurchase a watch from Australia
sight unseen is a challenge.
But we've sort of got itworking and when that happened

(16:06):
we realized well, we've got ourown brand, we can sell it
anywhere.
We've got e-commerce.
So if we want to sell them toJapan, we want to sell them to
Israel, we want to sell them toSouth Africa, we can.
And we found the uptake to bereally good, really positive, in
most of those countries.
And you know, over the yearspeople have come to us from all

(16:28):
over the world and purchased ourwatches.
The claim to fame we have is wecan deliver one of our watches
anywhere in the world in sevendays, so it doesn't matter where
you are.
And especially during COVID,this was wonderful for us
because people weren't going outto watch shops to buy watches,
and they sort of did find us asa brand brand and that's really
helped accelerate us as well.
But yeah, we're very proud thefact that we we, we stand for

(16:52):
getting rid of the overheads,you know, in terms of being able
to supply direct to consumersand passing on those savings to
them, and that's a messagethat's resonated really well,
really well for us that's apretty bold claim that you can
pretty much deliver a watchanywhere in seven days.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
How did you guys get such a great understanding of?
I mean, there's a lot oflogistics and supply chain we
haven't even really talked about, so how did you guys get such a
good strong hold on somethinglike that, like logistics?
How the hell can you deliver awatch anywhere in the world in
seven days?

Speaker 2 (17:24):
we just have.
We built some very goodrelationships with our logistics
suppliers and, uh, we just wentdown and you know we found the
ones that could do it for us andoptimize that.
Roger's been really good interms of working with those
suppliers to optimize.
They appreciate what we'retrying to achieve and we gave
them really good targets that ifthey could achieve we would
obviously scale our spend withthem.

(17:45):
So they reached out andachieved it.
But yeah, we're really reallyoptimising things like that as
being part of our strategybecause without the price point
or the attractive price pointsthat we offer, you know, people
wouldn't necessarily feelconfident enough to purchase a
watch.
If we were just the same pricepoint as everybody else in the
retail world, people wouldn'ttake a risk to purchase from us.

(18:09):
But by doing this model wherewe go direct, we can save the
consumer money and theyappreciate that and they're
willing to take a risk with usbecause of the savings that we
offer them.
And even on our Swiss watches,which we were talking about
before, we don't.
You know, if you look at theAF45C, it's got a Valjoux
movement in it.
It's a beautiful timepiece, veryclassic timepiece, but at the

(18:31):
price point we're offering it'sstill significantly less.
Although it's a relativelyexpensive watch, it's still
significantly less than whatyou'd normally pay for a watch
of that calibre.
So those savings have sentpeople to take a investment with
us in terms of trying ourwatches even though they haven't
seen them.
And the best thing is, ofcourse, we have a 30 percent

(18:51):
return rate, so people likeyourself, if purchased one, then
come back and buy another.
So it's really helped usaccelerate the brand.
Um, but doing thingsdifferently, I think, is really
what's enabled us to achievethose numbers.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, I'm curious and maybe we could put this on the
record for the first time, right?
So you have sold 300,000watches in 100 countries
Freaking crazy.
What are some of the countriesmaybe that you may or may not
know of that panzera hasn'treached yet?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
the main ones we haven't reached yet.
Well, there are a couple we'vereached and we've had to pull
out of south america, I think isone of them because the taxes
there when you import watcheswere like 150 of the price of
the watch, so we didn't lastvery long there.
Uh, mexico we have set up areally good distributor there

(19:47):
because we had a lot of issuesimporting watches into mexico,
but we solved that problem byhaving an intermediary
distributor there, so that'sactually where we are selling
them to.
Uh, there are places where dhldon't deliver to.
As you can, we're not selling alot of watches into Russia at
the moment Sure and other placeswhere there's no access.

(20:11):
But primarily, the only twothings that stop us selling are
very high tax rates, importtaxes for direct-to-consumer
products and places where DHLand FedEx and the other big
logistics companies we deal withdon't travel to.
But outside of that, you know,we've supplied to military
service in countries wherethey're at war.

(20:33):
We don't mind that.
As long as the logisticscompanies supply there, we can
go there.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
So yeah, I mean, yeah , you guys are clearly doing
something right.
My dog, as you can probablytell, agrees with you.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I think he wants to get a Fanzero watch.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
It sounds like it.
It sounds like it.
I'm curious about not only thattoo, but we talk to a lot of
these founders and entrepreneursthat have a challenge with
supply chain.
You know, obviously parts arecoming from germany, japan,
italy, switzerland, you know,sometimes china.
You know, like, how did youguys kind of get all of that

(21:15):
together and how did you guyskind of buckle down and and and
build out your supply chain thatreally helps to support, get
watches into a price range thatyour customers feel comfortable
purchasing, and and how do youcontinue forward doing such?

Speaker 2 (21:29):
well, it's been a challenge but, as I said it's,
we've got a really goodrelationship with our suppliers.
That's the key.
Um, we we have had our issues.
Um, movements can sometimes be.
We've had recent experienceswhere movements have been
drastically going up in pricedue to shortages, um, uh, issues

(21:50):
like that.
We've had period where wecouldn't get movements.
We've actually had to changethe movement in some of our
watches, redesign them, becausewe knew there was a shortage
coming up of the movement wewere using in one of the watches
.
Um, yeah, and we had, you know,three months to get that sorted
out, which is a real challenge.
But overall, we've had reallygood suppliers.
We forecast ahead, we keep aneye out for issues that are

(22:14):
coming up and we've become veryadaptive.
As I said, you know, once ortwice we've had to look at
changing the movement in a watch.
Now, as long as it's a similarquality, um, you know, movement
from, you know, myota to seikoor vice versa, whatever um, then
we've been able to work aroundthose issues.
Uh, they have been there.

(22:35):
But overall we've had prettygood, good running because we've
always picked products asscalable.
So, you know, if we, if we tryand minimize the amount of
customization that's required tothings like movements, and we
have a really good supplierwho's able to provide scale out
of Europe for our key componentsand straps as well.

(22:59):
We've had multiple suppliers,so if one supplier can't match
the requirements, we can switchover to the second and or have
two different suppliersproviding us at the same time.
So it's a bit of belts andbraces we've used along the way,
but, yeah, we've managed tokeep keep going all the way
through without anything toomany too many headaches along
the way.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
I mean that's amazing and still, as you can hear, my
dog still agrees, curiously.
So the Aquamarine, like I said,was one of my first watches.
Like third watch, and as I wasdoing more research for this, I
was actually disappointed tolearn that now it kind of seems

(23:40):
like you've tightened up theaquamarine collection, because
mine had a day and a datecomplication and now that is not
found anymore in the aquamarineand uh, and so also funny story
is uh, like I said when I firstgot, this watch is my third

(24:01):
watch.
I have no freaking ideaanything at all about watches,
but here I am right and so Inoticed like if I, if I was,
like you know, if I turned mywrist fast enough, like the
second hand would stop right andI'm like I'm like what the hell
is going on with you know.
So then I reach out, right, Ireach out to you know your brand

(24:21):
, panzeros customer service,whoever right and I'm like I
think my watch is broken, likeyou know.
And then, um, you know, like Idon't even know you guys, you
guys were like replied withinlike 15 minutes or something.
I was like, oh wow, okay, butuh, you know, come to find out
it.
Actually they were like, oh no,it's working.
You know, I recorded the video,sent it in, right, and they're

(24:42):
like oh no, it's working, asit's like a safety mechanism to
keep like the movement, I guess,like something like you know
the movement that you were usingat the time.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I know exactly what movement was in it.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
yeah, and I was like, oh okay, so not only did I get
awesome support, but I alsolearned something about watches
and movements at that timeBecause, like I said, you know,
I was very new to watchcollecting.
And there's also something thatyou know I've talked about on

(25:15):
some of my previous episodesabout, you know, sometimes
making an image and marketingyour brand towards, you know,
passionate enthusiasts or evenentry-level enthusiasts A lot of
the brands that we talk to nowthey have that challenge right.
They can't be the first watchor the second watch or the third
watch or the fourth watch orthe fifth watch.
You know they have to, I guess,wait their turn, you know.

(25:35):
And so how did you guys comearound that that you know that's
a huge hurdle right To you know, for for new enthusiasts to
feel comfortable investing.
You know that that's a hugehurdle right to you know, for
for new enthusiasts to feelcomfortable investing, you know,
into a product like yours.
Um, I'd be curious to maybe getyou know some, some perspective
on the those things yeah, lookit's.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's been a challenge , um, and if I had to rate our
biggest hurdle, it is gettingpeople to feel comfortable to
buy a watch for the first time.
I mean, if you read most of ourreviews online, which you can
do on our website, it's amazinghow people say you've got my
first watch.
It's amazing I'm just about toorder my second and my third.
Amazing, my fourth pan zero.
Getting the second and thirdsales easy, because when people

(26:19):
receive the watch they say, wow,okay, this is really cool.
Um, it's a good watch.
It's much better than I evenexpected.
But that first hurdle is a realchallenge and the only way
we've been able to do that isreally to direct a lot of
different types of messaging,both through the website and
through social media advertising, to reassure people that this

(26:40):
thing will turn up.
It will be a great quality timepiece and, yes, although the
price point is lower than whatyou're traditionally used to
paying, you're going to get anexceptional timepiece for that
amount of money.
And that's been the whole focusof our challenge and both our
social media and I have to laughbecause a lot of our customers.

(27:00):
We now have a display suite inSydney.
We get to meet some of thecustomers come in and a lot of
our customers.
We now have a display suite inSydney.
We get to meet some of thecustomers come in and a lot of
the comments I get was I had tobuy one of these because on
social media I kept gettingthese stunning photos of these
beautiful watches turning up andthey wouldn't stop showing them
to me and eventually I thought,well, I've got to go buy one,
otherwise this is going to driveme crazy.

(27:25):
So it is a little bit of repeatshow them the watch, give them
different messaging and really,you know, displaying the watches
in a positive way so thatpeople feel well, that's
something I really, really wantto own.
I'm willing to take a risk andthe average conversion time
frame for us is not short.
It takes from first seeing awatch, like you did on on social
media, to buying one somewherebetween 11 and 30 days minimum.
So you know it's sort of a.
It is not an easy sales cycleand it's not cheap for us to to

(27:49):
market you in that period, butit does work in terms of getting
people to the level ofconfidence eventually that
they'll purchase I think thatgoes with any watch brand now.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I mean, now you have so many different types of
information at your fingertips.
You know, somebody, somebodywill, you know, see a watch
review on YouTube, and then youknow, then they'll go down the
rabbit hole looking around atthe website.
Then they'll, you know, they'lltry to find the watches locally
if they can, and then they'llgo back.
They'll go back to YouTube ormaybe they'll end up at a watch

(28:20):
show where they get hands onwith it.
And now watches, more are, areabout feeling.
I've started to notice, youknow, people want to get
hands-on with something, peoplewant to try it on their wrist,
people want to see if itconnects with them.
You know, um, so I, I mean youguys have been around since the

(28:40):
early days of e-commerce,independent watch brands.
Absolutely.
I think it's just gettingharder.
It's just getting way hardernow, from my opinion.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
It is and it isn't.
I think COVID was a majorswitching point for us, because
people did sort of move out ofthe bricks and mortar, got to
get in a retail shop and buy mysuit, got to buy my watch, got
to buy everything, to wow, I canbuy everything online.
And once that switch has beenthrown, people do like the
convenience of it.
Um, I think the key for us iswe offer very good returns so

(29:12):
that people can actually buy thewatch.
If they're not 100 happy, theycan return it to us.
So that's a key aspect as well.
But, uh, yeah, I think we'rewe're we're 100 committed.
That that's our.
You know, as a that, as adifferentiator, we'll give you
exceptional quality and value.
But the risk that you take isyou have to come and buy it

(29:34):
without seeing it, and we tryand minimize that by allowing
you to return it if you're nothappy and giving you as much
information about the brand andthe watch as possible prior to
you actually committing.
So that's what we do.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, I mean amazing.
Something I've started to noticetoo is, you know, as brands
like yours, you know it seemslike you're going up market,
right, you know, particularlynow kind of trying to to jump
into a new price segment.
Maybe that's been something thatyou've done a while ago and I
haven't paid attention, so Iapologize for my ignorance.

(30:06):
But now, particularlychallenging, you know a lot of
your watches I mean your entrydoor seeming to be around what?
Five hundred dollars, and then,you know, going up to you know
a couple thousand dollars, youknow what fourth, what four
thousand fifty dollars, yes, um,and and now you're starting to

(30:26):
see that that 500 to 700 pricesegment is now becoming
increasingly, increasinglypopular with, uh, I guess, the
big boys.
Maybe we can say you know,you're starting to see brands
like Hamilton and, you know,like another brand that I really

(30:47):
enjoy, like Young Hans, youknow, and they've got watches in
that price point.
So I'm curious to maybe, maybeyou haven't felt any competition
from brands like that becauseof your design, language and
your target audience andconsumer and things like that.
But you know, know, how do youfeel like you guys stand now in
that price point?

Speaker 2 (31:09):
um, we, we, we've been growing.
I mean it's interesting.
We've had a lot of questionsabout tariffs and competitors
and other things, but the mainthing is, um, we've continued to
grow at an exponential rate,which is an indication of our
success.
But I think the thing thathelps us is, I think we've
really refined our messagingaround the brand and, as I

(31:31):
mentioned before, we've sort ofwon this sort of design style.
Now, I'm not saying our designstyle is for everybody it's
certainly not but for the peoplethat like that design style, I
think we've basically builtsomething that is really very
attractive to them.
And, as you pointed out, I don'tthink someone who's interested

(31:52):
in a lot of these other brandsnecessarily would affiliate with
our brand style or vice versa.
So we've tried to identify astyle that's really worked for
us, which is called the Panzerstyle, and I think also the
value proposition you get.
You can buy good watches forthat amount of money, but we

(32:12):
like to think that what you'regetting, in terms of both the
design, the quality and theruggedness, et cetera you get
from our watches at a similarprice point, is still very
exceptional compared to, youknow, equivalent models at
similar prices, you know youknow, oh yeah, I mean I can't

(32:34):
disagree.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I mean, especially, I think, when I was on my journey
, I don't even I don't evenremember how much I paid for my
panzerra.
And then, you know, back then Imean it just seems like nobody
was was doing bold, rugged toolwatches, you know, I, I think
that's if I could say, you knowpanerai, right again, you know,
it's kind of the brand that Iwas like, hey, like I love

(32:56):
panerai, but I can't afford apanerai.
You know, like I want somethingthat feels just like a panerai,
it looks like a panerai that'sbold, that's rugged, that is,
you know, unmistakably, in yourcase, you know panzerra at this
point.
So, uh, I don't know if I, ifmy wife got it for me, I found
it or I started talking.
It was it's been a really longtime, like like it's been 20

(33:19):
years, you know exactly you know.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
So you're one of the people that found something you
like that's in our designcriteria, and there's not a lot
else out there that matches thatsame characteristics yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
And then the price segment right, like you know, I,
you know you find yourself inthat.
Okay, it's crazy, I'm gonnaspend five hundred dollars on a
watch, you know.
And then I was talking aboutthis with somebody like
relatively recently.
And then, as you start goingdown the rabbit hole, you're
like, okay, I got my fivehundred dollar watch, I love
this.
All right, maybe my next watchwill be like a thousand dollars.
Okay, a thousand dollars, cool.

(33:53):
Like you know, the wifeapproved it, cool.
And then you get your thousanddollar watch and you're like, oh
shit, okay, uh, maybe my nextwatch will be two thousand
dollars.
You know, like you startnudging yourself up because and
and that's exactly what startedthe whole brand.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
If you look back to my original story, the whole
idea was how do we makecollecting watches not so
inaccessible that you can builda collection for thousands of
dollars, not tens or hundreds ofthousands of dollars?
so yeah we've got guys out there, we've got some quite
well-known celebrities actually,who own 12 or 15 of our watches
, which is a real compliment,and they've built a collection

(34:28):
just out of our range, which isreally nice.
But you $500, you can't affordto buy a watch every six months
or a year and add to yourcollection, whereas if you're
paying $5,000 to $6,000 or$10,000, it's very hard to
justify building a collection upunless you're very, very
wealthy.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I'm curious.
So we always ask this question.
But you own a watch brand.
You can pretty much make anyfreaking watch you want to,
right, it seems like.
So tell me which watch from thecollection is still your baby?
This one here?

Speaker 2 (35:05):
It's the A45C.
It's our first model.
I'm very proud of it because wesort of launched it as a bit of
an experiment.
Being a very high-end watch, weweren't sure whether it would
sell well under the Panzerabranding, but it's become
probably one of the top twobest-selling watches we have,
even though it's a very highprice point.
It's hand-assembled inSwitzerland.

(35:26):
It's a really nice design.
It's a chronograph using aValjoux movement, so very proud
of it.
I'm very proud that we can, youknow, be considered up there
with the high pedigree watches,not just at the entry-level ones
, as well.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, I am looking at it right now, kind of drooling
a little bit on the website.
At the same time, most peoplealways ask, like I'm doing a
little bit multitasking here onthe back and it that watch in
the, the blue dial, or even onthe, uh, the, the, what is it
like a yellow rubber?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
yellow rubber, yeah, yellow rubber yellow, the yellow
highlights of the dial, sort ofjust oh man, great, great,
great looking watch man.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
I'm curious and you know, let's talk about a little
bit of some of the inspiration,right?
You know we like to jump aroundhere, so I'm sorry, but it
seems like you know you talkabout or I guess maybe I read or
alluded to that you talk abouttaking inspiration from
adventure, right?
Did I understand that correctly?
Like you know, flying sailingoutdoor life read, or alluded to
that you talk about taking aninspiration from adventure,
right?
Is that is that?
Did I understand that correctly?

(36:33):
like you know, flying sailingoutdoor life you know, I think I
think you guys in in australiaare known for that right, like
outdoor life right, absolutelythat's your thing.
So so how do you?
Travel adventure ocean, warmweather, deserts, hiking, the
usual outdoor type, very, veryoutdoor country, australia, very

(36:54):
outdoor how do you, how do youinfuse those that you know,
mentality, that that energy likeinto, into the watches?

Speaker 2 (37:02):
you know, maybe that's a challenging question,
but well, it's, it's, it's it'sit's about, I think the thing is
, I think what we've the realcontrast, I think we're, I think
we wanted to pick the realcontrasting factor for our
watches up.
We wanted to build a watch likethis you could wear out to, you
know, wear that with a suit,you can get any function, you
wear a black tie, wedding, butit still has to have that

(37:25):
outdoor character.
So this watch is 200 meterwater resistant, it's still big,
it's still bold, it's still, uh, rugged.
So it needs to fit into thatcharacteristic of being
versatile.
I mean, we love going out tofancy events here in australia,
just like everywhere else, butwe also will probably hit the
beach the same day that we goout to something at work.

(37:47):
So, right, you know it needs tobe that versatility that fits
in with the australian concept,and I think that's what I wanted
.
I want a watch you can weareverywhere and I think, apart
from, you know, the ruggedness,the price point means these
watches aren't something youhave to sit at home in a box, um
, and why do we want out forspecial occasions?
And that's something I thinkwe've always wanted to track

(38:08):
through.
We wanted a watch you can wearanywhere.
No matter which model you pick,it's got to be something you
don't just wear to the gymbecause it doesn't look good,
but it also has to be somethingyou can wear to the gym if you
want to look good, uh, straightafter the gym or even when
you're at the gym.
So it's it's.
It's a versatility that we putinto our watches and I think

(38:28):
that fits with something you canwear anywhere, be it outdoors,
you know, on a hike, onadventure, down the beach, at a
formal dinner, whatever it needsto be a watch you can take
anywhere, and that's somethingthat's gone into every one of
our watches.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
There's not one of our watches that you can't go
into a pool with, even if it'sone of our dress style watches,
you know something that you alsofailed to mention is 200 meters
of water resistance in anautomatic chronograph is
freaking insane in anengineering nightmare, unless
you have those screwed on crowns, right, which in your case I

(39:04):
mean you.
You guys don't have thosescrewed on crowns, so I can
already just assume I mean justscrewed on crowns, suck, let's
just all admit it.
For, for, for chronographs,right.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Let's just all put that out there uh, I had to spot
it out, but we do it all.
I'm watching.
That's good.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yes, I do for the chronographs, the chronograph
pushers, really no, no, not forthe program.
Oh sorry, my apologies for theactual crown for the no no the
crown is perfect for screw downbut the chronograph pushers like
those suck, because then you'relike let me unscrew my crown
here to start my corner.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
You know, yeah, no no , I agree with you there.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Sorry, I was misinterpreting no, no, no, yeah
, so maybe I misspoke, but whichis also insanely challenging,
right, because you don't havethat screw down there.
I mean, I'm sure that was anengineering nightmare to your
design team.
When you say, hey, I wantautomatic chronograph that's 200
meters or water resistance,they're probably like, oh, we

(39:57):
need to find a new job.
We need to find a new job.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
We're not going to be able to pull this off so, yeah,
no, well, that's what we liketo push the boundaries.
I mean, the thing is, when webuilt this one, we wanted to
have everything.
Because it was a, you know,introductory, you know high-end
watch.
We thought, well, we're notgoing to hold the stoppers back
on just because of chronograph,we're not going to reduce the
water resistance, we're notgoing to reduce the rugged
liability of the watch.

(40:23):
It still needs to be a panzer.
So we did push the boundaries abit there, but we managed to
get it through.
And, um, part of its part ofits charm is this nautical feel.
You know it's one of thosewatches you can't go sailing or
diving with, but also wear it toany, any quality function that
you need to as well.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
You know it really fits that panzer mold really
perfectly I'm also kind ofcurious, andrew, and this is
probably something that may itmight be a sore topic, maybe not
, but um, you know, you, you're,you're selling watches in 100
countries.
Like, how do you support yourcustomers?
Like I mean, that's challenging.

(41:02):
Like you know, these arewatches, these are mechanical
watches, they're designed to beworn in every instance.
Right, you just mentioned thatlike they break they, like you
know they stop running, you knowyou get some moisture
condensation under the dial.
You know, shoot, I gotta send.
Like how, how do you even likestart to approach to develop a
support infrastructure?

(41:22):
You know, to even support that,sorry, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
was, I was done there, I wasjust rambling, yeah that was
probably one of the first things.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Also to differentiate .
I didn't really cover that.
When you set up an onlinebusiness, having a support
infrastructure is critical,because people don't have the
confidence they can just take itback to the shop they bought it
from.
So what we have set up and wedid this very early in the piece
is a 24 by 7 support system.
So you know, we've gotcustomers around the world, so

(41:56):
we can't just have it runningduring Australian time zone.
So we thought, well, let's setup something that's real time.
You can go online now and have achat to one of our service
agents now on our website andask them a question and you'll
get a response back within a fewminutes.
That's critical because we doneed to have a support structure

(42:18):
that can candle all thesedifferent countries.
But also we get some.
You know, often these are firstpurchases and people will come
back and don't realise they'vebought an automatic watch and
it's going to stop working ifthey don't wear it after about
two or three days, becausethey're used to wearing a
battery-operated watch.

(42:38):
The number of queries we havearound that is quite high,
surprisingly.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Well, that's actually a compliment that people who
don't even know what anautomatic watch is are still
purchasing your watches.
So dude that's a compliment inthe weirdest way possible.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
It is, and being able to service those customers has
been very critical and a verycore part of our, you know,
strategy in business to offer,you know, first-class service.
The other key thing is we'vealways used what I'd classify as
sort of broadly acceptedmovements.

(43:15):
So even this one uses theValjoux 7750, which in the Swiss
watch world is quite well known.
So you know, if people want aservice in five, ten years' time
, they don't have troublegetting parts or taking it to a
local watch agent to get itrepaired if they want to, or
taking it to a local watch agentto get it repaired if they want
to, obviously during warrantyperiod we take care of all that
for them and we get the watchshipped back to us if we need to

(43:38):
and get it repaired or replaced.
But after that the watch canrun indefinitely because all of
our watches use very well-knownmovements that have been around
for probably decades either theSeikos or the Motors or the
Valjouxs or the Swiss ones whichbasically means that those
watches can be maintainedlocally by our customers

(43:58):
indefinitely in their owncountries, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about and you
start to see the push.
You know I've talked about thispublicly pretty often too.
Like you know, a lot of brandshave been reliant on a multi,
like a retail experience, right,where there is a multi shop,
where there's 10 brands, 15brands, 20 brands and one person

(44:22):
can go and look at all thedifferent watch brands and get
exposure to the brand throughthat right.
But there's also a problem withthat approach that if you buy a
watch from a multi-brand store,you know let's just say, if you
buy whatever, it is tag heuer,iwc, panerai, what you're?
You're not a panerai customer,right?

(44:43):
You're not an idc customer,you're.
You're not a tag heuer customer, you are a multi-brand insert
name here customer, you know.
And they own that customer,right.
And so you're starting to seebrands that try to figure out
ways that they can own thosecustomers and start in-house
movements.

(45:03):
This is where they come in,right, like, okay, cool, let's
design our own movementarchitecture and let's make it
impossible for local watchmakersto service or you know, get
parts for, or, um, you knowwhatever.
And then you know that's notworking.
They're not, they're not takingback their customers enough.
So let's open our own boutiques, and you know, let's do this

(45:23):
and see if we can capturecustomer customers that way.
And and you, you guys, neverreally had to worry about that
because you were always focusedon on just producing a great
quality watch.
You know making an accessibleprice point.
You know figuring out how youcan, you know, ship it
logistically into that country,right, I'm sure?
And and just focus on on, youknow again, just giving a

(45:48):
quality product instead offiguring out, you already own
your customer, right, theypurchase it directly from you,
right?
Like usually.
I mean, you guys aredirect-to-consumer.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Absolutely.
We've got all our customers andour biggest asset, I think, is
our customer list of people thathave purchased and or expressed
interest in purchasing, becausethat's something we own and we
like to build a relationshipwith our customers.
That's something we own and welike to build a relationship
with our customers.
And when we launch a new model,of course, the biggest number
of orders we always get in thefirst few few weeks are existing

(46:20):
customers coming back to buysomething, new offers, which is
something that's both veryflattering and very, um, very
important to us.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like I said, this isn't,
this isn't supposed to be one ofthose podcasts where I'm just
praising you for everything,whatever, whatever the PR
company reached out to me and Ican't even tell you how many
times I get all these PRagencies that want to reach out
and they want to bring you know,bring their brand on my podcast

(46:47):
and have this story, have thisdiscussion, and unfortunately, I
do ignore a lot of them butwhen they said it was you and
Panzera not that I even knew you, right I didn't even know you,
because you guys aren't.
You guys don't put your faceout there, right?
You let the watches speak forthemselves, right?

(47:08):
Obviously, as I did someresearch and I found your name
on the website and I foundroger's name on the website, and
you know you talked brieflyabout starting watches and you
know the watch brand 2009, but,uh, but it becomes challenging,
like which brands do I sit downand do this with and which way
do I do I not do this with?

Speaker 2 (47:25):
and, uh, your pr people are very persistent I
will say so good, I'm glad tohear that.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Yeah, good job.
And then, and then, yeah, thesecond, they said Pangea.
I was like, let's make ithappen, let's make it happen.
And then, yeah, obviously I'vebeen traveling and so we had to
do a little bit of weirdrescheduling and stuff like that
.
But as I was doing research forthis, I also, you know, when I
started reading, because I hadno idea, you know, that you guys

(47:54):
were, I guess, I mean, I guessI knew you were successful.
I just didn't know that youwere this successful at selling
watches.
And then I knew you had a greatproduct that you guys are

(48:15):
coming full circle anddelivering on, you know what, I
would say, the next qualityproduct.
You know, with some of you know, you even brought up the 45C.
And also, as I was reading onthe about like side of the
website, you know, and I waslike, 300,000 watches in 100
countries, which is, you knowagain, I've said it freaking
crazy.
Um, then I started pokingthrough the website a little bit

(48:37):
more and I was like, okay, likewho helped andrew do this?
You know who?
You know like which?
Which?
Which celebrity is it thathelped you do this?
And then I couldn't findanything.
You, I couldn't find any likecelebrity endorsements or, like
you know, like hitting your nameonto somebody else's fame,

(48:57):
because brands do that Right,they're like you know they'll
throw their lasso around thecelebrity and use that to climb
their way to the top and get youknow, get attention, right, and
it seems like you guys havenever even really done that.
Is that accurate?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Like you don't have any ambassadors, it's just your
customers are the ambassadorsright, we do have a few
ambassadors In fact we're aboutto launch them but they're not
ambassadors to the point wherepeople would go, okay, wow, I
know that person Because I hateto point it out, but it's sort
of exactly what we're trying toavoid, which is we could go pay
a couple of million dollars to avery famous celebrity to

(49:31):
endorse our watches, but thatmillion dollars, or
multi-million dollars, wouldhave to go under the price of
the watch to then endorse.
That pushes the price up again.
So the whole idea is we'retrying to cut all that out.
We do have ambassadors, butthey're people like you know,
the aggressive squadron pilotsin the US Air Force have

(49:52):
selected our watches.
I'm about to put a piece upabout that.
They selected them themselvesand they're using our watches
now as their sort of customisedsquadron timepiece.
We've got a very famous baseballplayer who owns 12 of our
watches a US baseball player, ohwow, but we haven't been able

(50:13):
to.
You know, we would like to askhim if he'd be happy to be one
of our ambassadors.
But you know it's these sortsof people are, you know, behind
the scenes and we don't tend topush paid ambassadors, but we'd
like to get people you know abit more people aware that we do
have these very famous peoplewearing them, but they're not

(50:34):
wearing because we pay them towear them.
We're wearing that.
They're wearing because theyactually like them and they've
selected them themselves.
So it's a bit of a differentapproach, but we tried to go
away from that.
It's all that whole, the threethings we discovered, that push
the prices of watches up whenyou go and pay, you know, twelve
thousand, thirteen thousanddollars.
It's not because the watchcosts are significantly more

(50:55):
than ours to manufacture, butit's the fact that they're
paying for stores.
You look at a lot of the watchstores.
They're very premium stores.
It costs a fortune in rent.
You then pay a distributor andthe third thing is they're
paying these ambassadors hugeamounts of money.
Or they're sponsoring FormulaOne or they're sponsoring
something else that costsmillions and millions of dollars
.
That then has to get added tothe cost of the watch to get

(51:18):
their money back.
And that's where we're taking avery opposite approach.
You know we're saying let's cutall that out and go with our
own merit and bring a watch inthat's good value.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
You know, yeah, I mean, you certainly haven't hung
your hat on that, on thatstrategy, which is again you
know, unfortunately a lot.
You certainly haven't hung yourhat on that, on that strategy,
which is again you know,unfortunately a lot of.
I think a lot of brands have nochoice but to do it at this
point sometimes no, I thinkyou're right.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
If you want to get acceleration and you wanted to
get out there you're doingeverything the same as everybody
else, especially going throughretail channel you need to have
a differentiator, and that tendsto be an ambassador that people
think I'd like to be, they'remy hero, they're my aspiration,
or I'd like to be like them andwear the same watches they do,
and that's a good strategy.
It just is a very costly oneand it does add to the cost of

(52:01):
their product.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I'm curious to maybe we could talk about how you guys
engage your customer base, yourcommunity, how you guys engage
your, your customer base, yourcommunity, like, um, you know
you're starting to see kind of asurge in independent brands
that are essentially likecutting down the communication
lines to their customers.
You know, whether you know youhave the founders that are

(52:26):
putting their email on thewebsite, or, um, you know,
having Facebook groups where youknow your staff, your employees
or you guys are, are or or oron Reddit right when you, you
know you have a subreddit andthen people are, you know, from
Panzera, are actively engagingwith customers, or not only
engaging with them butsupporting customers.
Um, so I'm curious, maybe youguys are already doing that.

(52:49):
You know, how do you, how doyou engage with, do you engage
with your consumers, yourcustomers, your fans of the
brand, and what does that looklike for a Panzera customer?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah, it's an interesting question.
It's something we're changingat the moment.
Traditionally we've just usedemail.
I mean, we have a mailing listwhich has got very large numbers
of people on it, which we reachout to people on a regular
basis, probably once or twice aweek, to give them updates and
offers and communicate with themthat way.
But more recently, roger and Ihave sort of stepped out a

(53:25):
little bit from behind the outof the shadows, because we tried
to keep ourselves a little bitdistant from the brand and let
the brand run on its own merit.
But we've had some recentengagement with a bit of a
vlogging team who think that,you know, we could really add to
the brand by coming out andsharing our lifestyle and a

(53:46):
little bit of stories about thebrand et cetera.
And we just started doing that.
Our YouTube channel is nowstarting to pick up a little bit
of regular content from Rogerand I and we're doing a little
bit of direct socialcommunication back out which
then we also share to ourcustomers via our mailing list

(54:06):
as well.
So we are starting to come outa little bit more and Roger and
I are starting to become a bitmore of a face of the brand so
that people can feel comfortablethat we're not just an
organization, but we're realpeople who produce real watches,
and who we are and what westand for.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Authenticity is very important, as I'm sure you know
this, and now the lines fromauthenticity and and being
genuinely authentic and andfaking authenticity have been
blurred, unfortunately, and youhave brands that are like
manufacturing watches, or youknow that are pretending that

(54:44):
they're manufacturing watchesand in in this country or that
country, and you know you don'tsee anybody's name on the
website you know, so you don'tyou know, you people are faking
this these days, which is sad.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
It's sad it is very, very sad.
A lot, of, a lot of brands arejust brands, like they're just
taking products that alreadyexist in other countries, even
china, and bringing them in andrebadging them and pretending
that they've got a brand.
But we wanted to make surepeople I I mean I've been
keeping up the Australian accentpretty well on this show- All
right, so once we stop recording, you can.

(55:18):
You can drop the accent Go backinto the American accent again.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
So so curious, as Panzera continues to grow, what
can we expect?
You know is there.
You know, you knowcomplications, you guys, maybe
you could talk about yourexploring, or maybe materials or
, you know, maybe innovationsthat you hope to bring to the
brand.
If you could talk about that,that'd be exceptional.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Yeah, look there's.
Roger and I get together and weoften discuss where we want to
go in the next 12, 18, 24, andfive years.
But I think the key thing we'velearned is originally we were
tossing up.
When the success of the effectof the Aquamarine 45C, our Swiss

(56:03):
premium watch and a couple ofother Swiss models took off, we
thought, well, maybe we shouldmove the whole brand to be
Swiss-based.
One thing I can assure everyoneis we're not doing that,
because we've sort of developedwhat I think is a really nice
strategy of people who want tospend $500 to $1,000 on a watch

(56:23):
still can, and that's probablystill our biggest market but
people that want to takeadvantage of owning a nice Swiss
watch that's good quality, thatalso has that same advantage of
being able to buy direct fromas a consumer and save money but
have a quality of owning aSwiss premium watch can as well.
So we're keeping the two rangesrunning in parallel.

(56:44):
So we've got the Australianmade watches and the Swiss
watches is something that we'regoing to maintain.
What we are thinking of doingis bringing out something very,
very high-end, so we're going tocall it something that will be
very limited edition.
It will have all sorts ofunique complications and it will

(57:06):
be only available to peoplethat have purchased one of our
watches before, and in very,very limited numbers.
So we're going to make thatbecause we do have a lot of fans
within the Panzera family nowand we think they'd like to have
something that's very exclusive.
And we'd like to have somethingvery exclusive also that will

(57:26):
act even more of a halo sort ofmodel for the rest of the range
as well.
So that's something we'retoying with is coming out in the
next few, maybe within the nextyear or two.
Then there's also just expandingthe range.
We found that our pre-ordermodel works really well.

(57:48):
We're bringing out a new model.
It always goes well.
People like to have somethingnew and fresh, especially if
they're already existing panzerowners.
So we'll be continuing to bringout new models within each
range.
Uh, probably one every, youknow, uh, two or three each year
, but they'll be along the samelines and taking making sure it

(58:09):
fits into that panzer group.
So, uh, but yeah, nothing tootoo radical in that space, but
definitely continuing to bringout new models.
That uh will will enhance therange in each of the the four,
four core areas that we focus onalso curious too are you guys
looking, you know, to?

Speaker 1 (58:29):
because you, you have a sports range, right, but I
wouldn't really consider it tobe like inspired by, like
motorsport, right, it's more ofa, uh, like a diver.
I'd say it's more of adiver-esque sports range, yes,
but uh, you know, are you guyslooking to anything like that?

(58:51):
Like I mean, if you're from,from Australia, you probably are
into F1, right?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Maybe, well, we are definitely into F1.
We also sponsor one of our sortof I would call it an
ambassador.
But one of our sponsoredathletes is a GT4 driver, an
Australian GT4 driver.
So we do tend to favor that andwe do have one model, the time
master 45, which, and also thetime master 43, which is sort of

(59:17):
around that sort of motorsportsrange, but we sort of group it
into that sports group, which isa little bit general, and I
think that's something we needto look at.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
I think we do need to come out with something a
little bit more motorsportfocused within our group, you
know yeah, that's what I wastrying to, maybe see if there's
something there, because you'restarting to see a lot, a lot of
brands kind of embrace,motorsport and and just racing
in general, and uh, and havegreat success with it.
Because you know, the, the divewatch category is actually the

(59:45):
uh, the, I guess the um, thesaturated category, and you guys
have that mastered, right, youknow, if you've mastered the
dive watch category, usuallyit's a, it's a safe stretch.
I mean, again, I'm not talking,I'm not here trying to tell you
how to run your brand, ofcourse, but um, you know, if
you've mastered the dive watchcategory, then usually it's a

(01:00:05):
safe play that you might havesuccess in, like motorsport.
Or, you know, you, you guyshave what I would consider some,
some field watches already,right, so, yes, um, so, so, yeah
, yeah, I think that would becrazy to see something like that
, you know, coming around thepipeline and then uh, no, no,
it's funny you should mentionthat because roger and I were

(01:00:26):
talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
We definitely need to have a bit more of a motor
sports focused watch.
The time master sort of wasfilling that field, but I think
it's time for something a bitnew and more fresh, that to fill
up that particular space.
It's a very important area.
I mean, one area that's donereally well for us is the GMT
side of things, which we've nowlaunched two or three models in
that space and they've donereally well, because having an

(01:00:50):
affordable GMT watch sort offits into both.
You know that can work inconjunction with diving, it can
work in conjunction with travel,it can work in conjunction with
adventure or explorer.
But it's an area that's reallydone well for us in the last 12
months.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, now I'm sure and this is probably one of the
more challenging questions thatI think I might ask you today
and you might hopefully answerbut now that you have your baby
right, panzera, your baby whatdoes the legacy look like for
Panzera right?
How do you archive this thing?

(01:01:27):
How do you make sure this thingkeeps going beyond Andrew and
Roger's days?

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Well, that's a very good point and I think about
this quite a lot.
I mean, everybody says youshould have an exit strategy for
a business, and I suppose youshould.
I think we should have one.
But my also concept is maybeit's something we can pass down
to our kids.
I mean, having a familybusiness based on watch
production is something that isvery, you know, powerful.

(01:01:56):
But also, the thing is a watchcompany, the longer it runs, the
more heritage and pedigree ithas.
I think the hardest challengefor us was when we were a
two-year-old business trying toget watches out there and people
hadn't heard of us at all andthere was no history, there was
no background, there wasn't alarge customer base to refer

(01:02:17):
back to, get reviews from, etc.
So the longer the business runs,the more powerful it becomes,
and we've seen nothing butgrowth over the last, you know,
15 years since we started thebusiness.
So as long as that continues, Icould very easily see it being
something we could hand down toour.

(01:02:38):
Both Roger and I have kids.
You know we could be somethingthat we could potentially hand
down to our children one day assomething that they can work
with us on, be part of thebusiness and grow and learn how
to run it and keep it goingindefinitely.
I mean, I'd love to think ofPanzera as something being, you
know, a hundred year oldbusiness in a hundred years time
, so, or 115 year old businessin a hundred' time.

(01:03:00):
So it's something that couldpotentially do and, as you know,
legacy is something that isvery powerful in the watch
industry.
It's not something thatnecessarily goes out of vogue.
I think the longer a companyruns, the more people sort of
respect the brand.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Is that something that maybe you've even, I guess,
tried to hint at your children,like, hey guys, you've even uh,
I guess, tried to like hint atyou know your children like hey
guys, my son, my son has a wholelist of uh, funny names for our
range of watches.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
He calls uh, what do you call it?
The?
Uh, the time master is the tombmaster, so he's got a whole lot
of.
There's the aquamarine bubbleor something he calls other
things, so he's got a.
He's a teenage boy now so, uh,he is sort of, you know, playing
around with business, but he,he asked for one of our watches
for his birthday present, whichI thought was oh man, so that's

(01:03:53):
crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
That's crazy awesome.
I'm sure that's like one ofthose first full circle moments
for you where you're like, yes,absolutely like, how.
How does this happen?
You know that your son isasking for a birthday gift or
something that you createdexactly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
It was very complimentary.
Especially for a teenage boythese days to to ask for a watch
is quite unusual.
Normally they want a smartwatch or something, but which he
wanted?

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
one of our time master oh okay, I was about to
ask which one, which one was heasking for?
But no, no, and then this isgoing to be the final one that
we leave you with, or maybe on.
At this point, I'm curiousabout your goals for the future.

(01:04:35):
Everybody has them.
In 20 years, 15 years, you andI can look back together and
laugh, because we recorded thispodcast for one and and I want
something to hold you toadditionally, you know.
So what?
What are you hoping for, youknow, in the future of Panzera?

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Oh, I'd like, I'd love Panzera to be.
We're a successful brand.
At the moment we're not.
Probably we're not a householdname.
I'd love, in 20 years time, forpanzer to be as well known as
some of the other big watchbrands out there.
Not necessarily the samepedigree, or you know cost base
or you know selling, you knowhundred thousand dollar watches,

(01:05:15):
but well known enough to say,well, I know what panzer stands
for.
I've heard of panzer.
You can go around and you go toa pub and you talk to your
mates.
I bought a Panzera.
Oh, yeah, I know that brand.
They're a really good brand.
We know them, of course we knowthem.
Everybody knows Panzera.
So I'd love to be one day oneof those brands that people, not
only you know, not only a brandthat's successful but is also

(01:05:39):
potentially a household name andwell-known.
As I mentioned before, maybepart of a family business that
Roger and I family hasdiversified into all working and
being part of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
That would be exceptional.
And yeah, I mean Pantera and Imean you can go back and listen
to every single podcast I'veever recorded and I don't think
I've ever said this, maybe onceor twice, right, but there's
very few brands that hold like avery kind of special place, you
know, in my heart as acollector and um, and yeah, I
think I told you, like I said,you know, obviously panzer was

(01:06:13):
one of the early, early brandsfor me.
Um, you know, obviously, uh,I'm not being paid to say say
this, as far as I'm aware, and Iam, please tell me where the
check is going.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Hang on, I'll just hand this watch over to you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
But seriously, in all seriousness, you guys were
early into my watch collectingjourney and, yeah, it's a brand
that I would love to seecontinue, you know, continue
forward, you know, and to bethat right To be that household
name and for people toexperience what it's like to own
one of your watches.

(01:06:50):
You know, because for me it wasa companion, you know.
You know, sadly it's one ofthose ones that got away, man,
it's a sad story.
I think it was like I was in mywatch cases and I got robbed.
Oh, that's not good, and I justnever got it back.

(01:07:15):
But anyways, yeah, it was one ofthose brands that was a
companion for me and I didn'tknow watches.
I didn't know watches, didn'tknow watches, but I knew I knew
panzera and um, and I feltcomfortable wearing it every
single day.
And then, and I'll never forget, you know, because, um, you
know, when I first got it, youknow, I didn't even really
understand like materials orquality or anything.

(01:07:38):
Um, you know, I was too scaredto go into you know a nice store
and ask to see a panerai or anomega.
I was just, I was too scared togo into you know a nice store
and ask to see a panerai or anomega.
I was just, I was too scared,right because I, you know, I
don't want, I can't I can'tafford those, you know.
And uh, and I'll never forget,um, I I had your watch.
I was doing a lot of travelingthrough through the world and I

(01:07:59):
had, you know, I had a couplemore watches at the at the time.
Um, I had like maybe like fiveor six, you know, and um, and
there was only one watch I tookwith me, you know it was.
It was your, your descent, Ithink it was called the atlantic
descent that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
We based on the dial colors.
We we sort of got rid of thosenames because it made a bit
confusing, but we still have thesame model, yeah yeah, the
aquamarine, and uh and uh, andthat strap, man, like that strap
was just so supple, so soft.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I I mean, I, I you know you think about that right,
you know how can you wear thisand and comfortably wear this,
right, and I you know again.
So that's.
I think that's all I got frommy glowing endorsement, but I
just remember.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
It's worth adding that we do get to meet our
customers and it is interestingthe diversity.
There's people like yourselfwhere it's one of the first
watches, but we get a lot ofpeople who own big watch
collections of Rolexes andAmigas and they're still very
complimentary about the qualityof the watch, but they just feel
it's something they can wearevery day.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah, it's a watch that you don't have to keep up
with, like it's designed to keepup with you, right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
I used to get to work in a marketing department.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
I'm looking for work.
I like that.
That's a good catchphrase.
It really is, though, you know,because I have watches now that
I have to keep up with, you know, and I have Rolex, because I
have watches now that I have tokeep up with, you know, and I
have Rolex, I have Omega, I havePanerai, you know, I have all
these brands.
I have, you know, zenith.

(01:09:32):
You know I have these watchesthat I have to keep up with, and
it's nice to have watches.
You don't have to do that.
You know, and now I'm startingto look at watches.
How can I get a watch into mycollection?
That A compliments mycollection, you know.
Two feels familiar, right, and,you know, is something that I
love to wear and appreciate, andhow is it a watch that I can

(01:09:55):
just wear effortlessly?
You know Exactly.
You know, if something were tohappen, you know it.
I think you know when I, whenthat watch was stolen from me,
um, and there was like six orseven other watches that were
stolen, and they were, you know,invicta or this or that.
You know it's something,something that that definitely
caused grief, you know, likeemotional grief, but it didn't.

(01:10:19):
It didn't cause a lot offinancial grief.
You know, I'm not like, oh shit, like, you know, like having to
file the insurance claims withthe insurance company and, like,
you know, like like losingsleep over and having to go file
a police report and do all.
And you know I did right, I didfile a police report.
But you know it's not somethingwhere I'm like, okay, I just

(01:10:39):
got set back, like for the wholeyear, like I can't buy another
watch for the whole year Cause Ijust lost, you know, lost a
6,000, $7,000 time piece, youknow like.
So it's nice to have that, it'snice to have a watch that can
keep up with you and and nothave to keep up with it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
So it still looks good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
That make you feel good.
That's the whole concept of awatch.
Yeah, it did that, and it didthat very well.
I did that very well.
So we are literally coming nowto, I mean, just over an hour,
and I want to turn my platformover to you, if I can, you know.
So we talked about a lot.
We talked about you know thecraftsmanship, the production,
customer experience, values.
You know the identity, thedesign philosophy.
You know the future, right, thefuture right, the uh.

(01:11:24):
You know, I can't wait to seesome of the, the collections
that your son names.
But, um, but no, what?
What would you like to say toour entire audience?

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
60 countries are listening well, first I'd like
to thank you, blake, for havingus on the show.
It's been really really, reallyinteresting and wonderful
discussion and you've asked somereally great questions.
But you know, we're just, we'revery proud of our brand.
We'd like people to you know,try out, come and discover us,
go on the website, learn moreabout us, make sure you feel

(01:11:57):
comfortable, do your research.
But I think, have a lookthrough our reviews.
I think our reviews speak forthemselves.
Um, you know we've got peopleout there that have massive
watch collections, are very highin watches, saying that you
know our watches are equally, ifnot better, quality and make
them also enable them to wearwatches.
But we're all about we're abrand that's based on two guys

(01:12:20):
who absolutely love watches andwe're very proud of the watches
we produce.
But we produce them for onereason, and that is exactly what
you described before, and thatis we want watches you can wear
anywhere, feel comfortable, feelproud to wear them, not worry
about the fact that you're goingout to go to a beach or go
swimming or where you happen toend up you can wear a watch, or

(01:12:43):
worried about losing the watchor being.
You know some countries youcan't wear a nice watch anymore
because you wear a high-valuewatch you may not make at home.
Our watches are watches you canfeel safe wearing anywhere, but
you're still proud to wear them, and that's what we stand for
as a brand.
So get out there, learn moreabout us, hope comfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
We'd love to be love to get on our customer list at
some stage yeah, I mean, I thinkI think you touched on
everything, everything thatneeds to be touched on, you know
, and, and yeah, I again I'll,uh, I'll tell you where to mail
my check okay, sounds, soundsgood.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Or your watch, or your replacement watch might be
more appropriate place.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
That would be exceptional.
And, um, and again, I want tothank you for spending so much
time with us, for, you know, forbeing willing to sit down and
have this conversation.
You know it's it's challenging.
I'm starting to realize howchallenging it is to have these
conversations.
You know, um, know um, becauseyou know, the more and more I
have podcasts, you know, I guessit becomes harder and harder to

(01:13:48):
get podcast guests on becausethey're like, oh, I don't, I
don't feel like I line up with,you know, some of these all-star
people that we've had.
So, um, and as our podcastgrows, you know, people feel, I
guess, in a weird way, less, uh,less likely to come on.
It's very weird, that's rightit's the exact opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I feel very you know, very grateful you invited us.
It's been wonderful, um, and welove talking about our brand
and, as I say, the biggestchallenge for us is getting
people to understand who we areand what we stand for.
And, uh, you know, podcastslike this can only help us in a
very positive way.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
It's a great outlet.
It's a great platform.
Let's leave it on that highnote.
Let's leave it on that highnote.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
And everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
I am certainly going to link Panzera in the
description here.
You definitely should checkthem out.
Like I said, it's a brand thatreally holds true to me and, uh,
and this is our first, ourfirst time actually meeting,
ironically, so I have noaffiliation to these guys,
except the fact that theysomehow found me and somehow

(01:14:56):
wanted to come on my podcast andreach out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
You've had one of my watches a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not a joke.
It's not a joke, and maybe I'llhave to see if I can dig up
some old wristpicks.
I'm sure there's pictures of mefloating around on my phone or
maybe on my hard drives, of me,you know, living life with my
Pantera.
Maybe I can try and use thatfor the thumbnail.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Reach out to me after this and we'll see if we can
get a replacement sorted out foryou, because we might have
nostalgic value for you itcertainly will.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
It certainly will, andrew.
Thank you so much.
Send my regards to roger, whoI've also never communicated
with and and will do.
Thank you so much for coming onthe lonely wrist very nice,
great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Thanks, blake, talk again soon.
You got it, take care.