November 11, 2025 • 62 mins
What happens when a frustrated vintage watch collector stumbles upon a forgotten brand with a fascinating cinematic history? Angus McFadden joins us to share how he breathed new life into Alsta, the Swiss-made American watch brand that adorned Richard Dreyfuss's wrist in Jaws and Johnny Depp's in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
McFadden's journey began in 2014 when his frustration with authenticating vintage Rolex pieces led to an unexpected discovery – an Alsta dive watch in a part-exchange bundle. That chance encounter sparked a deep dive into the brand's rich heritage dating back to 1946, culminating in his acquisition of the dormant brand and its relaunch in 2017.
Unlike many revived watch brands that focus solely on recreating the past, McFadden has carefully balanced heritage with innovation. The original Nautiscaff and iconic Super Automatic models have been joined by fresh designs like the Motoscaff, purposefully built for motorcyclists. Throughout our conversation, McFadden's commitment to authenticity shines through – from his customer-centric approach to product development to his refreshingly honest acknowledgment that "nobody needs a watch" in today's smartphone era.
What's particularly fascinating about Alsta is its cultural significance as "the non-obvious choice" – the watch for rebels who value quality and character over flashy brand names. This positioning has attracted a passionate customer base that's 80-90% American, honoring the brand's New York roots. As Alsta approaches its 80th anniversary, McFadden remains focused on sustainable growth through product excellence rather than marketing hype – ensuring this once-forgotten treasure continues to grace the wrists of those who appreciate genuine heritage with modern reliability.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Blake Rea (00:01):
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
here of the Lonely Wrist Podcast.
I'm your host, as always, ofcourse, blake Ray, and today's
guest is on a mission to keepinga vintage watch brand alive.
The brand, I'm sure you know bynow, is Alsta, and it's back
from the history books and inthe hands of a new generation.
(00:22):
Our guest, angusus sorryhiccups today is not just
re-releasing the classics likethe nato scoff and the super
automatic.
He is creating fresh designslike the moto scoff, built for
people who actually get in thereand live.
Uh, angus is focused, since hishands on the brand is all about
(00:42):
authenticity, purpose and watchthat look absolutely incredible
, perform flawlessly and carry astory with them from the golden
age of skin divers.
What's next for moderncollectors?
He is shaping the brand, bothrooted in history and ready for
adventure.
So let's get into it.
Please welcome the man behindall still watches, angus
mcfadden.
(01:03):
Hey, blake, good to see youagain yeah, I messed up my intro
there a little bit but whocares?
We'll roll we'll roll with it.
Um, I'm curious about how yougot exposed to the brand um and
why did you decide to revivealso of all brands?
Angus McFadden (01:20):
yes, so I was, uh, I was a collector and I
collected lots of the usualstuff.
I collected Rolex sportswatches from the 1960s and 70s
and I was getting frustratedbecause it was so difficult to
get hold of good Rolex piecesthat you could trust were
(01:42):
authentic and hadn't beentampered with.
And you know, I had some lotsof good experiences and I had a
bad experience where I bought avintage submariner from a
reputable rolex dealer, sent itto get serviced and was told
that in fact it didn't have allauthentic parts in it.
(02:02):
So I just thought this isgetting too difficult and I was
looking at other.
I started collecting otherbrands, such as Yig LeCoultre,
and I had some Omegas and I hada Breguet and in a part exchange
bundle I ended up getting anAlster dive watch and I thought
(02:25):
what on earth is this?
In a part exchange bundle Iended up getting an Ulster dive
watch and I thought what onearth is this?
So I then started researchingit and going down the rabbit
hole and discovered that thebrand had a fantastic heritage,
had been around since 1946, andhad a whole back catalogue of
(02:47):
dress watches, chronographs,ladies' dress and cocktail
watches, and then skin diversand divers and other sports
watches, and I also discoveredat that time that Alstair had
disappeared in the late 70s, hadgone out of business in 1978.
And I thought not much more ofit.
(03:09):
And I always had a.
I always had a, an idea that Iwould love to have started a
watch brand, and the reason Ididn't do it was, for me, watch
brands need to have backstoryand they need to have something
behind them, not just the branditself.
Unless you've got unlimitedfunds in order to build a new
(03:34):
brand, like bishop meal did, Ibelieve that a watch brand needs
to have a backstory and havesome romance and have a little
bit of sex appeal to it.
And I thought how do you dothat from scratch?
Can you do it authenticallyfrom scratch without spending,
you know, millions on uh, onmarketing and building a new
(03:55):
brand story?
And that was stopping me.
And then I thought I wonder if Icould revive a brand that is no
longer with us, one that hadheritage and a great backstory.
And then I started thinkingabout my little Alsta skin diver
that was sitting in one of mywatch boxes.
So, to cut a long story short,I then acquired the brand and
(04:23):
started acquiring the assets andthe IP and the rights to the
brand worldwide, and I thoughtthis is more like it, a brand
with heritage.
When I've got some time andsome money, one of these days, I
might do something with this,but of course, the itch needed
(04:46):
to be scratched and before Iknew it, I was away meeting
suppliers in Switzerland andgetting kind of deep into it.
And then I this was in 2014.
2014, I started this wholeprocess of acquiring the brand
and then fast forward to 2017,we released our first watch of
(05:08):
the new, revived Ulster in March2017.
Blake Rea (05:20):
And that was a revival, an update of the Not A
Scaff Skin Diver.
Wow, yeah, it's a great story.
And then, out of all the watchbrands you could have revived, I
think you probably revived oneof the more desirable ones,
especially from an Americanperspective, because it has
(05:43):
pretty significant culturalutter.
He was born in Belgium, movedto New Jersey, then moved to New
York and then started his watchbrand.
That's correct.
And then yeah, I mean, I'mobviously from Vegas.
So Johnny Depp wore one in Fearand Loathing right, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Of course we've got the iconicrichard dreyfus from from jaws
(06:06):
right, which I think you get themost clout for um yeah and and
so I guess your entireacquisition from the time you
decided to start acquiring theip till launch when.
When was so?
Was it 2014 and then 2017?
Did I understand?
Angus McFadden (06:24):
2014, I started the process and, um, yeah, three
years between then and, uh,releasing the, the first piece,
and that was a combination ofthings.
It was really the fact thatthings do take time sometimes
when you're dealing with dealingwith lawyers and attorney, ip
attorneys and also acquiringrights.
(06:45):
The rights in certain countries, including the US, was owned by
a Swiss company and I had tonegotiate and acquire the brand
from them.
So there was a whole load ofdifferent things going on and,
to be honest, I wasn't in a hugehurry because I was already
doing other things.
I already had another businessand I wasn't in a huge hurry.
It was already doing otherthings.
(07:05):
Um already had another businessand I wasn't in a huge hurry.
It was a passion project.
It was something that I wantedto do and I thought, when I get
around to it, I'll get around toit.
But then, as 2015-2016 came, itwas gathering.
I was gathering pace, I washaving conversations with
suppliers and then saying, right, okay, I'm going to do this.
(07:26):
So um did some prototyping, didan initial run of the first
watch and I thought, if nobodybuys these, at least I'll have a
watch that I like and I'll putthe rest on ebay, but they did
like them and that first modelsold out.
But your point a minute agoabout being such an American
brand, that's totally right.
(07:46):
The brand is rooted in theUnited States.
It started in the United Statesby Joseph, as you said, in New
Jersey and then New York justafter the Second World War and
then they traded out of New Yorkuntil they closed and the
watches were always made inSwitzerland but then shipped to
(08:09):
New York to maybe be cased or tobe assembled and shipped out.
And even today the majority ofour customer base is in the US.
Blake Rea (08:19):
I would say probably 80% to 90% of our customers are
in the us something that I alsofound when doing my research was
um, ulster had never made aquartz watch ever in history,
which I found pretty interesting.
And you know, obviously I thinkeverybody knows what happened
(08:41):
in the seventies, right, thecourts crisis, and do you think,
uh, I mean I had to dosomething with?
Uh, I guess the struggles thatthey faced, or just their, their
lack of um at the time and andsorry to to knock on some of
your uh, your, your, your formeruh, your former colleagues, um,
(09:02):
but the uh, the lack of kind ofwilling to, to adapt to, you
know, a new market yeah, no, no,you're not.
Angus McFadden (09:12):
You're not knocking them at all.
I think that's.
I think that's quite accurateand the thing that, the thing
that really surprised me wasthat Ulster hadn't tried to make
quartz watches, because I thinkthat they would have been
successful.
I think we would have been umsuccessful in in bringing out
(09:33):
developing quartz watches thatpeople wanted.
The reason I think that is thatwe always seem to be.
We always seem to be at theforefront and catching the
zeitgeist of the time.
When everyone was making dresswatches, a few brands started
(09:56):
getting into making dresschronographs and then sports
chronographs and we were one ofthe brands that was doing that
in the early days.
And then the trend starteddeveloping for sports watches.
So people were starting to getmore leisure time, having a bit
more affluence, starting to lookat things like diving and
(10:16):
fishing and and sailing andother leisure activities and
again, asta was at the forefrontof developing those sports
watches.
Then the dive watches and then,when the the morning case style
case was being made for hoyerand some of the other zenit and
(10:38):
some of the other brands, againoster was there having their
watches cased in these moderncases.
So we're always with with the,the trend, so to speak.
So the natural thing to happenwould be that when quartz
watches became a thing, thatulster leaned into those and
(11:00):
became a a maker of quartz.
But I think by that time theowner had maybe run out of steam
and decided that enough wasenough.
And I've spoken, I've had a fewconversations over the years
with the founder, with Joseph'sdaughter, who lives in
(11:20):
California and she's now in her80s, and she was of the belief
that I think he had reinventedUlster so many times that it got
to the point where he said Idon't know if I've got the
energy for this anymore, to doanother reinvention and another
pivot.
(11:40):
So they didn't.
But ironically the quarkscrisis probably killed them, but
they would have done well hadthey embraced it and done quarks
watches agreed conveniently.
Blake Rea (11:54):
Also, you don't have a chronograph in your collection
.
Is that something that we canexpect from you in the future?
Angus McFadden (12:00):
maybe for sure for sure, because some of some
of our chronographs you've seenthem some of them are absolutely
beautiful, beautiful.
The reason we haven't done themyet is because we we have been
on a mission to bring the brandback and to re-establish
(12:20):
ourselves in the, in the mindsof the, the watch enthusiast
community, and build ourlegitimacy as a, as a heritage
brand, and it's been my, it'sbeen my strategy to do that step
by step, rather than goingstraight in making expensive,
(12:44):
expensive to make and expensiveto buy um chronographs before
we've got the legitimacy of the,of the watch collecting public,
re-establish that legitimacy,should I say um?
So I've wanted to do a step at atime and just make sure that
we're making watches that peoplewant and starting off not
(13:08):
particularly expensive.
I mean, it's still an expensivewatch.
Even our first watch in 2017was $800.
And that's still a lot of money, but it's not $3,000 or $4,000,
which is what a chronographwould be.
So I think we need to go onthat journey with our
(13:30):
enthusiasts and our customersand eventually get there.
And it's my desire to launch achronograph for sure, I don't
want to do one half-baked.
I want to do it properly andhave a nice refined piece with a
good movement, and it's goingto cost a bit more, so we will
(13:50):
get there for sure.
Blake Rea (13:52):
You definitely don't strike me as somebody who likes
to rush things either.
You talked about doing this asa passion project and just
letting the wind blow you in thedirection.
Angus McFadden (14:03):
it seemed like project, and just kind of
letting the wind kind of blowyou in the direction.
It seemed like, um, yeah, it's,yeah, it's total opposite from
my other business life.
So I've got two business livesI've I'm involved in in tech, at
the cutting edge of tech thingslike ai, machine learning,
quantum computing, robotics, andthat stuff moves at a million
(14:26):
miles an hour.
That's really fast and fastdecisions being made and fast
progress and the world ischanging so so much every year.
And the watch industry for meis, is not that, it's something
that moves a bit more slowly.
Maybe people who are long-termwatch industry people will say
(14:47):
no things are changing all thatrapidly, but for me they seem.
It seems to be a slower, aslower rate of change.
And you're dealing, we'redealing with people.
When I say dealing with people,what we're appealing to and
talking to people who arespending their hard-earned money
and putting their trust in usthat we're going to give them
something of quality andsomething that will last and
(15:10):
something that has legitimacy.
So I do like to take my timeand deliberate over that before
asking somebody to part withtheir hard-earned money for one
of our products yeah, no, thatmakes sense.
Blake Rea (15:23):
Uh, also curious too.
So when you acquired, like theip and I've asked this to other
revival watch brands becauseit's always interesting to me um
, not only did you get the, thenamesake, but did you, did you
have any like drawings?
Did you have any like likediagram, like what?
What was it included in your,in your acquisition, right?
Angus McFadden (15:47):
there wasn't a lot.
Um, we got some archives butmost of the archives were lost
in water damage, um, back in thethe 19 I think it was 1980s,
after the company had folded.
So we didn't get much in theway of archives and we've been
slowly piecing together anarchive, a written archive and a
physical archive.
(16:07):
So we do have technicaldrawings and we do have
photographic assets and we'vealso had other people online
doing research and buildingbodies of research about the
brand.
We've also been doing thatinternally, but we've also built
a really nice archive physicalarchive of watches from the
(16:34):
1950s right through to when thecompany folded in the 70s.
So we've got a really nicearchive of dress watches,
chronographs.
So we've got a really nicearchive of dress watches,
chronographs, some really raredivers and even a regatta timer.
So we've got some reallybeautiful watches that they're
(16:55):
going to serve as ourinspiration for the coming years
.
And I also have this fantasythat one day we might do a book,
might a nice I don't knowcoffee table book with, uh,
these beautiful photographs, andso I'd love to do that.
We work, we work with this umfantastic photographer in new
york, adam moore.
(17:16):
I'm sure you know him and, um,he has photographed some of our
um most of our vintage piecesand, uh, he totally gets the
brand in terms of the look andthe feel, so I'd love to put
those in a book one day.
Blake Rea (17:32):
That'd be epic um beyond, like the, not a scarf,
which is the one that you, Iguess um that you own that
decided to bring the brand back.
Are there any other all-stardesigns that you feel represent
the to bring the brand back?
Are there any other Alstadesigns that you feel represent
the original brand spirit?
Angus McFadden (17:51):
So the Super Automatic is our marquee piece.
We're really lucky to have that.
I've contributed to articlesover the last the time that I've
been running Alistair.
I've contributed to articles oniconic pieces.
You know, the audemars has theroyal oak and rolex has the
(18:13):
submariner and I'm notsuggesting we're up there with
them, but I've been asked tocontribute to articles that talk
about that iconic piece thatsometimes brands have the one
that will always be here, theone that's potentially got a 50
year or 100 year lifespan andwe're so lucky to have that
piece.
We're lucky to have heritage.
(18:33):
We're lucky to have a reallyengaged, passionate, customer
enthusiast base, but we're alsoreally lucky to have that piece
that will serve us and we planto be carrying on that super
automatic range for theforeseeable future, for as long
as people want it.
(18:53):
So I think that's one thatreally serves the spirit of the
brand, and when we brought outthe NautisGaff in 2017, lots of
people said oh, why didn't youdo the super automatic?
You should have done the superautomatic first, and there's
always a reason for things, andthe reason that we didn't bring
(19:17):
the super automatic out as thefirst release at that time was
the bracelet was so difficult tomake that.
I just wasn't willing tocompromise and bring it out on a
different bracelet or on abracelet that wasn't of
sufficient quality.
So I wasn't happy that we weregetting the quality of bracelet
(19:39):
you know the Hooper braceletthat we have on the Super
Automatic.
I just wasn't happy that we hadit right.
So I said, right, we've got todo the Nautiscaf instead, and
then when we can get thebracelet right on the Super
Automatic, we'll release that.
So that's why it was threeyears after the release of the
Nautis Scaf that the SuperAutomatic came out.
Blake Rea (20:02):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean it sounds like faithfulaccuracy is quite important to
you.
I mean it sounds like you knowfaithful accuracy is quite
important to you and you know,obviously you're reintroducing a
vintage brand to a modernaudience.
Like, I'm sure there'schallenges there that maybe you
didn't expect.
Yes, I'm sure if you couldtouch on some of those.
Angus McFadden (20:27):
Yeah, sure, if you, yeah, if you could touch on
some of those.
Yeah, the challenges I thinkthe challenges are around, um,
managing expectations of your,of your passionate customers, um
, in a way that you're nevergoing to please everyone, okay,
but we try and please as as manypeople as we can.
(20:49):
So when we brought the superautomatic out, a few customers
said but why doesn't it have themagnifier, the date magnifier
on the crystal?
And my answer to that was thatthe date magnifier and the
crystal is a really difficultthing to get right without
(21:12):
distorting the number underneath, and I wanted to make sure that
we got that right before wereleased a super automatic with
the date magnifier.
And then some other peopleasked why didn't you release it
with the red lollipop secondshand and the magnifier?
So, do you know?
(21:33):
I think it's trying to explainto our customers that we'll get
around all these things, butsometimes you've got to do that
by evolution and build somethingthat's faithful to the original
, but there might be one, theremight be one or two details that
you don't manage to replicatefirst time.
Now the thing is that peopleasked about the red lollipop
(21:58):
second hand.
Why didn't we do that?
Now, on the Jaws when they'rewatching the Jaws movie, that
had a red lollipop second hand,but most of them didn't.
Most of the originals didn'thave the red lollipop seconds
hand.
Most had either the arrow thatour current super automatic has,
or it had a white squarelollipop.
(22:19):
So, um, trying to get somethingthat most customers like but
still keeping it authentic is achallenge.
I have to ask do you know whathappened?
Blake Rea (22:40):
to Richard Dreyfuss' watch?
Angus McFadden (22:40):
Yeah, I do, do you have it?
I had it in my hand recently.
So there's a great video thatyou should watch and your
viewers should watch.
It's on our website.
You should watch and yourviewers should watch.
It's on our website.
We released it for the 50thanniversary of Jaws on the 20th
of June this year and it's avideo of us servicing the actual
watch from the movie.
(23:01):
It's incredible.
So I got the watch from theowner and asked if we could
service it for him because wewould love to film it.
I said, look, we'll service itand we'll do any repairs that
are needing done, and we'll dothat in exchange for keeping the
(23:24):
watch for a while so that wecan make some great content with
it.
So he said, yeah, that'stotally fine.
So he sent it to me and that'sincredible this watch with so
much history, this is the actualwatch that was on Dreyfus's
wrist and it's been validated.
We've got proper validationthat that is the watch.
(23:46):
I've been offered the originalfilm watch so many times by
people contacting us and saying,oh, would you like to buy the
original?
So we had the original from theowner, who is connected with
the original movie and connectedwith.
So it came from the propcollection of the original movie
(24:11):
.
So, yeah, if you look in thewebsite, you'll see the video of
it being opened and beingserviced, and then we sent it
back to the owner, who is thendisplaying it at a Universal
Studios Jaws celebration at theAcademy Museum, and we released
that on the 20th of june, whichwas the 50th anniversary of the
(24:32):
release of the movie in the us.
Blake Rea (24:36):
I hope he wears it.
Man, have you, that's a watch Iwould wear.
I'd wear the shit out of thatactually no, I would wear it.
Angus McFadden (24:45):
I would wear.
He don't think he does wear it.
It tends to be on display.
He's also got roy scheider's umhamilton that he wore in the
movie so he's, he's also gotthat, um, and he said you want
me to send you that too, and Itried to find a nice way of
saying that I don't need that,yeah that'd be cool, but I mean,
(25:06):
it's not going to be something.
Blake Rea (25:07):
We're going to wrap some PR around.
Angus McFadden (25:09):
Exactly, Exactly .
So no, we did some good PRaround that and then two weeks
later, on the 4th of July, wereleased our new Super Automatic
, which 4th of July was a bigdate in the US, but it was also
a big date in the Jaws movie aswell.
That's how we met obviously theJaws movie as well.
Blake Rea (25:27):
That's how we met, obviously.
I mean, I've been watching allstuff for a while and I've been
going back and forth with myfriends, right, like which one
do you think I should get whentime comes?
And then I saw that you guyswere teasing the Super Automatic
and I was like, oh shit, Like.
(25:49):
I need to prepare my wallet andthen, yeah, the uh was not
disappointing at all.
Um, I think is you guys did agreat job, uh, with the new
super automatic and uh, and I'mhoping at some some point I
could, I could still acquire one.
I'm kind of on a on a buyingfreeze.
I've been talking to my wife Ijust bought so much camera gear.
The last thing I'm thinkingabout right now is sadly buying
(26:17):
a watch.
Yeah, I hope so, I hope so.
So I guess fast forward.
You decided to bring Ulster,obviously, to a modern audience
and you released the Motoscoff,which didn't exist before your
acquisition.
How did that collection come tobe and why did you feel like
(26:42):
you needed to introducesomething?
Angus McFadden (26:45):
Yeah, so I guess this goes back to your question
a minute ago about thechallenges of introducing a
heritage brand to a modernaudience.
On one hand, the heritagepieces like the super automatic,
the nautiscaf, the chronographsthat's what our enthusiasts are
asking.
(27:06):
They're asking for more of that, more of the of the original
pieces to be re-released.
But there are a lot ofcustomers out there who are
saying why are you only stickingto those small number of pieces
?
Why don't you innovate and dosome new things and bring some
new models to the market?
So we went through a periodwhere we were bringing out some
(27:30):
new things, looking at some newlook not-a-scaffs, so doing
not-a-scaffs, with coloureddials, with coloured bezels
instead of the classic black.
And then I looked at the.
I was thinking about the ideaof doing something else, maybe
like something connected withdriving or connecting with
motorcycling, and I was talkingto um, a friend of mine in the
(27:55):
us, um alan fermello, who usedto run the beyond the dial
podcast, and he was saying whydon't you do a motorcycle watch?
Because there isn't one outthere.
There are motorcycle-themedwatches, so watches that have
motorcycle logos on the dial,but there's nothing that's been
(28:17):
built from the ground up for amotorcyclist, considering what a
motorcyclist is looking for interms of the ruggedness and the
shock-proofness of it, the factthat it has the Destro crown,
the crown on the left side, yeah, and it just the conversation
started moving in that directionand the next thing we were
(28:42):
prototyping the piece, did a bitof research into our customer
base to see if it's somethingthat they would be interested in
and they said yeah.
So we brought that out in alimited, in a limited number,
and I also was keen to make the.
So the case that the watchcomes in is bigger than our
(29:03):
usual watch pouch and that's sothat it can accommodate a pair
of sunglasses for a motorcyclist.
So I got the prototype of thepouch made and then was trying
every different type ofsunglasses you can think of,
from wayfarers to you know, allthe different styles to make
sure that they fitted into thispouch, into this pouch so that
(29:25):
motorcyclists can not just throwit in a drawer but actually use
it.
So that was what was behindthat, um, that model, and then
that then starts theconversation about does that
become a permanent collection, apermanent product within the
answer, collection, and I guessthat's that's another challenge
(29:48):
trying to make those decisions.
Do we make the decision and say,yes, we're going to do it,
we're going to back our modelsand we're going to bring the
next one out?
Or do we go back to ourcustomers and ask them?
And that's what we tend to do.
We tend to ask our customers alot.
We do a lot of emailing and Iemail directly to a lot of our
(30:09):
customers saying can I ask yousomething?
If we brought this out, wouldthat interest you?
And some of them say, yeah, itreally would.
I can't afford it at the moment, but I would buy it if I could
afford it.
And some others say, yeah, putme down for one.
And then others say no, it'snot of interest.
(30:29):
So we like to do a lot of that,so asking the customers what
they want and then thejudgment's back on us about what
the final product looks like.
We did that with the new SuperAutomatic.
We ran a sort of focus groupwith about 250 of our customers
and we asked them to help us umwith what they wanted to see,
(30:53):
what they didn't want to see,what they like, what they don't
like, what they would pay extrafor and what they wouldn't pay
extra for, what they just regardas being, um, standard
equipment that you don't need topay extra for.
So really asked a lot ofquestions of the customers and
then, okay, we take that anddesign something that that we
(31:15):
think will appeal to to morepeople than not I'm assuming
that you got back, like you know, solita movement, you know
things like that, upgradedmovement and yeah, yeah, we got
a lot of.
Yeah, we got a lot of.
We want to see swiss movementin there which was, which was
fine.
And we asked um, what about thethickness?
(31:37):
You still want it thick or doyou want it thinner, so that
more refined, so you can wear itunder a shirt or you could wear
it as a sports watch?
And then, um, is the?
What about the bracelet?
How important is that to you?
Is that just something thatkeeps the watch on your wrist,
or is that part of the overallpackage?
Do you want some morerefinement there?
(31:57):
Do you want micro adjustment onit?
Do you want a different type ofsecurity?
Do you want, like push buttonopening, or don't you care about
that?
What about the end links?
Do you want them to fit closely, like a bit like an integrated
bracelet, or do you like thegaps, the flaws of the original
1970s watch?
So we ask all these questionswhat about a dome crystal?
(32:22):
Do you like the dome crystal ordo you not?
And it's incredible, when youask customers those questions,
some of them say, yeah, we wantthe crystal as big and domed as
possible, to be vintage.
And then we have others who say, no, I want it to be more
refined, so that it's a sportswatch but could be worn as a
dress watch.
So we need to take all of thatinto account.
Blake Rea (32:46):
It brings me perfectly to the question of um,
you know what?
What is an all star watch toyou Like?
You know, you have a stereotype, or I shouldn't say
stereotypical, but in your mindit has to meet a certain
criteria, right.
So, from the horse's mouth, youknow what do you feel like.
Angus McFadden (33:07):
And also, watch has to have before you would
even consider releasingsomething like that so I've
always been conscious of thefact that when we're bringing
bringing a new brand back andand appealing to customers that
haven't maybe haven'texperienced the brand before,
(33:28):
you need to be conscious ofbudget, and I've been conscious
of bringing watches to the toour customer base that are too
expensive, because if you dothat, it then becomes something
that's not as easy to, it's notas easy to buy, but it's also
not as easy for a new customerto join the Ulster family.
(33:50):
If you say it's £3,000 to buy,or $3,000 to buy an Ulster ie a
brand you've never heard of, oryou could buy a pre-owned Heuer
or something for three grand,what are you going to?
What are you going to go for?
Right?
Well, it's a difficult.
It'd be difficult to imaginesomeone going for a new revived
(34:15):
brand they'd never heard of andspending that money.
So I've always been consciousof making sure it's affordable.
Um, so that was.
That was part of the reasoningbehind the early pieces having
Seiko movements in them.
I wanted the watches made inSwitzerland, but in order to
make them in Switzerland andstill keep them affordable, the
(34:39):
one thing I was prepared to giveup the Swiss part was the
movement, because Seiko makereally good movements.
So now I think we've got somemore brand equity, some more
brand recognition and some morelegitimacy.
I keep saying the wordlegitimacy, but it is a really I
think it's a good way todescribe it.
(35:01):
I think we've got thatlegitimacy now with a broader
customer base who will say, yeah, okay, I'll spend $1,300 on one
of their watches because I knowwho they are and I've
experienced how they treat me.
I've experienced how they areto deal with and what it feels
like to be part of that brand.
(35:24):
So, to bring it back to yourquestion, I think having it
Swiss made as much as possible,because people do expect that
it's a bit of a hygiene factorwhen you're buying a spending
four figures on a on a watch andso I wanted to have that.
I wanted to have a certainamount of refinement.
I don't want it just nottogether.
It needs to be, have a certainlevel of refinement and feel
(35:46):
that it could be a dress watchas well as being a sports watch,
and I want it to also be.
I want it to be informed andinfluenced by the heritage and
by the vintage pieces, but not acarbon copy.
I want it to be an evolution,so it might look like a super
automatic, but it's got modernmaterials and it's got a modern
(36:09):
movement and it's got a morerobust crystal on it and it's
maybe got a more robust bezel onit.
So, yeah, I I don't want it tobe just the um, I don't want to
be shaving cost all the time.
Blake Rea (36:26):
I want to find that balance between uh of value and
cost yeah, I mean it makes sensebecause if you think about the
golden years of watchmaking, the60s, like late 50s, late 60s,
um, you know, if you've everowned a vintage watch, I mean
they're not daily drivers,unfortunately.
(36:47):
I mean, I don't have thecourage to daily drive a vintage
watch.
Um, and you know there's a lotof modern advancements that can,
you know, essentially extendthe life beyond right, you know
you've got new technology,silicon um, you know, back in
the day, I mean, they weren'tusing a lot of sapphire crystals
, they're using a lot of acrylic, you know.
And, um, you know, watchesweren't made.
(37:09):
I mean, they were made well, ofcourse, but they, you know
there's been a lot ofadvancements that, um, you know,
I, I think and I've said thisbefore, and I, anytime I've sent
a watch, even and to, to getrestored, you know, I, I would
like a vintage looking modernwatch, you, so I think that's
(37:30):
what, that's what resonated withwith me.
You know, I want modern tech byvintage design.
Yes, and that's what?
Angus McFadden (37:36):
yeah that's what you have absolutely, and I love
the fact that we are that anon-obvious choice.
You know, if you, um, if youwalk into a room and there's
lots of people with uh, wearingwatchies, um, the chances of
finding someone else in the sameroom wearing an ulster is quite
(37:58):
slim.
The chances of finding somebodywho's wearing an omega or a
brightling or a rolex orwhatever is is quite high.
But the chances of walking intoa room and seeing more than one
Alistair is quite slim.
And I love that because it'sthat less obvious choice.
The Matt Hooper character inJaws the reason that he had the
(38:21):
Alistair as opposed to a Rolexwas because, although he was a
man of means and came from anaffluent background, he wasn't
flash.
He didn't want the obviouschoice.
He wanted something that wasrobust and quality and something
that would last, and it didn'tmatter if it wasn't a brand.
So that was really chosen forhim because it was that
(38:43):
non-obvious choice.
And the costume designer forFear and Loathing in Las Vegas
did exactly the same, puttingJohnny Depp's costumes together,
saying we want a watch.
That's not the obvious choice.
It's not to be a Rolex, it's tobe something that maybe bears
some resemblance to it and isrobust but a bit of a rebel's
(39:08):
choice robust but a bit of arebel's choice.
And then, doing the research,she discovered the rebel, who
was the oceanographer in jawsand he had this watch.
So maybe that's a good choicefor ralph duke in fear and
loathing.
And then the next big movieappearance last summer,
something in the water, whichwas a a buddy movie, but a shark
(39:32):
played a big part in that.
So the character that wore thesuper automatic in that movie
again was the rebel, was thecharacter who was the, who was
not going to have the obviouschoice on her wrist.
That was good because that'sher wrist, but it was female
lead who was, um, one of thefemale leads who was wearing the
watch I'll have to go back andwatch that.
Blake Rea (39:53):
Obviously.
I've seen draws.
I've seen fear and loathing inlas vegas and, um, you know,
obviously johnny depp and fearand loathing, it's like one of
my favorite, like all-time moviecharacters.
I think his quirkiness and hisuh, uh, I guess excitement about
life is, is, and his perceptionis it's very uh, it's very odd,
(40:15):
but it's uh, it's one of myall-time favorite characters in
a movie I think you know and youdon't need to.
Angus McFadden (40:21):
You don't need to advocate the stuff that he
got up to in order to say youknow, I get the, I get the watch
connection and I get that sortof rebellious choice.
You don't need to agree withthe stuff he did to get that.
Blake Rea (40:36):
I have to ask do you know what happened to Johnny
Depp's watch?
Angus McFadden (40:41):
I don't.
I do have my detectives outworking on it, though.
Blake Rea (40:49):
No, I'm pretty, pretty big and this is weird.
I don't think I've ever talkedabout this publicly, but I'm
huge in um, in like movie props,right.
So, like, I literally look atat prop store which is like a
uk-based, uh like prop house andthey sell, you know, like, like
either like screen worn itemsor you know like like props from
(41:12):
the films, like I mean, theysell all that stuff and I've
been, I've been eyeing watcheson there for a while.
You know, the ones that I was,I was actually bidding on was
one of the the Omegas.
The the Omega from it was theSeamaster 300, from not no Time
(41:33):
to Die, but the one before it,you know, the one that he had in
his hand where he was tied up.
Oh right, and it turned into alittle bomb or something right.
Angus McFadden (41:44):
Okay, yeah, so you're going to bid for that,
are you?
Blake Rea (41:47):
Yeah, I made a bid for it and it just started
getting up there way too highfor what I think, yeah, yeah, so
you're gonna bid for that, areyou?
Yeah, I, I, yeah.
I made a bid for it and it juststarted getting up there like
way too high for what I think,uh, specter, specter, um, yeah
yeah, anything james bondconnected is going to be really
expensive yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's the reason why I'mjust kind of curious.
Um, and I guess in the future.
(42:08):
So your brand has been built onthe cinematic appearances,
right?
Is that something that you knowyou guys are going to try and
continue through legacy, likeyou know?
Do you want, you know, morescreen visibility in the future?
Is that what you're going tohang on to or even try to
achieve?
Angus McFadden (42:28):
I don't know, because On one hand, the screen
visibility has been the thingthat's really brought us to the
public's attention, but on theother hand, it's something that
I feel, yeah, I'm a bitconflicted on it.
On one hand, it doesn't feelvery authentic sort of paying to
(42:49):
have your watch appearing in amovie for us anyway.
On the other hand, it givesbrand visibility.
So I think that's something wemight do in an opportunistic way
rather than chasing it.
The reason we appeared inSomething in the Water, for
example, is that the director ofthat movie is a customer and an
(43:12):
enthusiast and she wears asuper automatic all the time.
She wears it on set when she'smaking movies.
She wears it when she's not onon set, and she was like I'd
love to have a little nod tojaws in the movie and most
(43:36):
people won't get it.
But if you know, you know.
So, yeah, that's why weappeared in that, and we also
have had conversations with themovie studio as well about
potentially doing something withthem in future.
But I think, um, we'll just,yeah, we'll just feel our way
with that one.
I don't want to be, and thereason I'm saying that I don't
(43:59):
want to be paying lots of moneyto appear in movies.
I just don't think that that'swho our customers are and who
our brand enthusiasts are andwho we are.
I think that we would be thenchasing a whole different
customer group, which is great.
We want to get new customers,of course.
(44:20):
We want to keep building thethe answer customer group, but
at the moment our customer groupis really engaged and
passionate and um and loads ofour customers have more than one
piece and I just think theywould feel that we might have
lost that special thing thatthey love about us if we started
(44:42):
then spending our profits onmovie appearances.
Blake Rea (44:47):
Yeah, well, obviously that has to be transferred back
to the cost of the customer,right?
Like, if you're spending 300, Idon't even know how much it
would cost 200, 000, 100, 000 tohave product placement and an
xyz movie, like you wouldn't beable to keep your watches in
that what I I would considervery, uh, obtainable price
(45:08):
segment.
You know, I mean, you have aquality product, um, I've seen
one allsta in my life on just,unfortunately, just one um, and
you know it doesn't take longfor you to realize that you have
, you know, a great product.
It, almost instantaneously,once you put it in your hand,
the fit to finish the build,it's all there, um.
(45:30):
But you know that would put youinto a whole new price segment.
You know your, your entry doorwould be double what it is now.
I think, and and you knowyou're you're on the right, the
right track to to being able tokeep these watches obtainable,
right?
You know there's not a lot ofwatches out there that are
history, powered with legacy,with the story, you know, that
(45:52):
are under a thousand dollars,like please show me another
watch that has similar, you knowheritage under a thousand
dollars and in your case, likewhat?
Seven hundred dollars, right?
Angus McFadden (46:04):
yeah, yeah, yeah , the last super automatic was
800, the new one is 1300.
Blake Rea (46:08):
Just under 1300, yeah , but still even the, not even
the, not a scoff, you know like700, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
even the Nodoscoff.
Angus McFadden (46:15):
Nodoscoff is like $700.
Blake Rea (46:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that is right there in that
obtainable segment.
I think You're right there.
Angus McFadden (46:25):
It's just where your priorities are really.
Even if we had the money tosplash out on a movie appearance
, that money could be muchbetter used.
I would say improving otherthings Like R&D, Instead of
improving our visibility to anew customer group.
That might happen away in thefuture, but at the moment that
(46:47):
money could be better spentimproving our product, improving
our communications with ourcustomers, improving our service
.
All those things are good atthe moment, but the you can
always be better and I thinkspending those making the
experience of being an answercustomer is where I would rather
put the money, um, rather thanspending it on trying to build
(47:10):
our audience makes sense.
Blake Rea (47:12):
Super, you know you get.
You have described Ulster asyou know authentic, you know
purpose driven and sophisticatedin the modern watch landscape.
Which one of those do you feelis probably the hardest to
maintain?
Angus McFadden (47:33):
I think authenticity is possibly the
hardest to maintain for the, forthe reasons that we've just
been talking about.
Right, you know, I think you.
Then you can then get draggedaway from your heritage or
(47:53):
dragged away from the thingsthat make you an attractive
proposition.
You can be easily dragged awayfrom those.
If someone came along and saidto me, would you like to go down
a whole different path?
We'll throw lots of money atyou and go down a different path
with the brand and startbuilding a different type of
watch for a different type ofcustomer.
(48:14):
So there you go.
You need to make a businessdecision.
Do we want to grow thisbusiness and do we want to start
becoming higher volume, or dowe want to maintain that
authenticity that we have andthat's really hard to hold on to
?
Someone gives you thatopportunity.
You need to weigh it up.
What's more important?
(48:35):
Things like purposefulness ofthe, the watches I think that
that's reasonably easy tomaintain and and the
sophistication too.
Now, that's sophistication isnot something that I made up.
It's something that customers,when we did our focus group last
year as well, they were sayingthese are you know what.
(48:57):
Give us some words that youthink of that come to mind when
you think of alstom, when youlook at our content online, or
if you look at our watch, orgive us some words that you
think of, and the wordsophisticated came up again and
again.
They said, yeah, yeah, you'rerugged, yes, you're tough tool
watches, but you've got thatlittle.
(49:18):
Somebody said you've got alittle kind of sex, a bit of sex
appeal, which I loved.
I thought that was brilliant.
I would never have the audacityto say that about us, but it
was a customer that said it.
Say that about us, but it was acustomer that said it.
(49:40):
And um, so you know?
So I think, um, yeah, I, I.
So, to answer your question, Ithink the authenticity is
potentially the hardest to holdon to.
I'm hoping, I'm hoping you doit.
Blake Rea (49:51):
No, you're doing a good job.
And just for the record, Ioften refer to watches as sexy.
Angus McFadden (49:57):
Yeah, totally.
Blake Rea (50:00):
I agree with you there.
Angus McFadden (50:19):
You talked about .
You know, obviously in thefuture, you know, looking at
chronographs, you know, arethere any other complications
that you feel are worthy of theUlster label?
Yeah, I think a g I'd love todo, a gmt I would love to do.
We've been talking and doingdesigns of, uh, a gmt, a super
automatic, potentially a superautomatic gmt, or an autoscaff
GMT.
I think that does fit becauseif you think about the who, the
(50:40):
Ulster customer is somebody wholikes the outdoors, somebody who
likes a bit of adventure,somebody who on their weekends
maybe rides motorcycles, maybethey sail boats, maybe they go
fishing.
There's a lot of outdoor sports,um, that go, that goes on with
um, our typical customer, andadventure and travel go hand in
(51:04):
hand with those with thoseoutdoor activities.
So again, the romance of theheritage brand of travel and and
these types of things goperfectly with a gmt, with a
traveler's watch and I guessthat's the again the, the, the
(51:26):
romance of the heritage brandscoming out nobody needs a gmt
watch, nobody needs another,another time zone on their watch
, nobody even needs a watch.
Your iPhone or whatever phoneyou use gives a more accurate
time and it also gives youmultiple time zones.
(51:46):
So you don't need a GMT, but Ithink there's something quite I
don't know something quiteromantic and sophisticated about
GMTs.
So that's a long answer.
Blake Rea (52:00):
No, it's a great answer.
That's a great answer.
I think you're probably one ofthe first brand owners to ever
come on a podcast who owns awatch brand that says you don't
need a watch.
So hats off to you, buddy.
Angus McFadden (52:17):
We're talking about being authentic.
We're talking about beingauthentic.
We're talking about beingauthentic.
Blake Rea (52:22):
Yeah, we all know it, but it's never been vocalized
by a watch brand owner.
Let's lean into that a littlebit more.
So you talked about heritageright and bringing back a
heritage brand.
You know, and this is probably,I guess, one of the more
challenging questions I mightask I've got a couple more
(52:43):
challenging questions and I'mtrying to fit everything in here
to the top of the hour.
If you could sit down withJoseph Alciter today, you know,
what would you guys talk about?
What would you ask him?
What would you want to knowfrom him?
Angus McFadden (53:01):
Why did he throw in the towel instead of leaning
into the Quartz Revolution asopposed to Quartz Crisis, the
Quartz Revolution and get aheadof it and really build Ulster
for the late 20th century andinto the 21st century with
(53:22):
quartz watches?
I think I would ask him that.
Maybe most of the things he didwith the brand were really spot
on.
I think, as I said earlier, hereally kicked ahead of, was
often at the forefront of trends, but because he didn't have the
ambition to build a brand thathad global appeal and was
(53:43):
selling large volumes of watches, he was quite happy to say
we're going to make these lovelychronographs, then we're going
to go and make some lovelysports watches, then we're going
to go and do something else andthen run out of steam.
So that I think that's thequestion I would ask him why,
why did you not lean into quartz?
Blake Rea (54:03):
yeah, well, maybe he was leaving it for you maybe,
maybe what, what's?
uh, what do you feel I'm you?
Probably maybe you've gottensome misconceptions about Allsta
, you know if, because I knowthere's a lot of people who are
listening in my podcast rightnow that maybe aren't as sleuthy
(54:24):
on the internet as I am andhave maybe never heard of Allsta
.
But I'm sure maybe you've raninto some objections or maybe
misconceptions about the brand,or maybe even just people that
don't understand or even knowthe brand.
You know, what would you liketo say?
Angus McFadden (54:45):
you know we don't get too many objections.
Really.
I think in the early days wegot objections about why you're
not putting a swiss movement inyour watches, and I could talk
all day about why we we didn'tput a swiss movement in those
early watches.
Um, I think I've alreadymentioned it.
You know the choice.
(55:06):
The choices were to eithermanufacture in the far east and
put a swiss movement in whichlots of brands do, or do
something a bit different andget the start manufacturing in
Switzerland, put a Japanesemovement and then eventually
evolve into having a Swissmovement and an all-Swiss watch
(55:28):
and hopefully that leap from aSwiss watch with a Japanese
movement to an all-Swiss watchisn't such a big leap after all
in terms of price.
So we got lots of not not lots,but we did get questions about
why did you not put a Swisswatch?
And I think lots of theobjections come from probably a
(55:49):
misunderstanding of what goesinto making watches.
Sure, you know, I've had people.
I've had people saying you knowhow come of what goes into
making watches.
Sure, I've had people sayinghow come Seiko can make a dive
watch that costs $800 and youguys, it costs $1,200?
.
Blake Rea (56:04):
That's the question.
Angus McFadden (56:06):
Seiko makes 30 million watches a year and they
manufacture everything in-house.
And even Somebody once said tome you know I can get a Longines
for less expensive than yourswith the same spec.
(56:26):
It's like Longines makes oneand a half million watches a
year.
If you're making it that kindof volume, you can do a lot with
your pricing.
At that kind of volume you cando a lot with your pricing.
But to design and prototype andmanufacture and assemble and
(56:46):
quality control and market anddistribute watches made in
Switzerland at the prices thatwe do, I think we should be
applauded for, as opposed toanyone saying we think it's too
expensive even though it isn'texpensive.
I think often it's amisconception about how much
work goes into actually bringinga watch to market and how much
(57:11):
work goes in for a small brand,an independent brand that
doesn't have all the resources.
Blake Rea (57:16):
Yeah, I think I know the answer to this one, but
which watch past, present ormaybe even future?
Wink wink, do you feel best,tells the Ulster story.
As someone who's maybe neverheard of the brand, is it the
super automatic?
Angus McFadden (57:35):
Yeah, I think it is the super automatic.
Yeah, I think it is the superautomatic.
The the notice gaff was reallyimportant because that was the
entry into dive watches.
That was skin divers for at thetime, so that was the type of
watch that you would weardirectly on your skin.
It was for leisure diving.
And then the super automaticwas more of a professional
diver's watch.
But in reality professionaldivers don't tend divers
(57:57):
wouldn't tend to wear one of ourwatches.
They have dive computers.
I would say the Superautomaticis the one that is a really good
entry point because there islots of backstory to the model.
There's lots of interestingfacts about the model, the fact
that there's the cinematicreferences, the fact that there
are some interesting customersout there who wear them um, you
(58:22):
know people from the world ofmusic, the worlds of music and
movies, uh, wear them.
So it's a.
It's a.
It's an interesting entry pointto the brand and then you can
start discovering other things,maybe more niche models, like
some of the bronze models thatwe brought out yeah, yeah, I've
been going through the, thecollection, and I think, uh, I
(58:44):
mean, I love what you're doingwith the, not a scuff.
Blake Rea (58:45):
I think that would be where I would my entry door as
well.
Um, final question, becausewe're at the top of the hour,
I'm trying to help you keep yourschedule.
Angus McFadden (58:55):
Yeah, that's okay.
Blake Rea (58:58):
You know, obviously you don't want to make the same
mistakes that you know previousowners of the brand did.
So you know how are you goingto preserve this brand for the
future.
You know, like what steps areyou taking to make sure that
this brand continues forward, asopposed to just another
short-term run and I wouldn'tcall Alsta's first run
(59:22):
short-term by any means, but youknow what I mean.
Angus McFadden (59:24):
I know what you mean.
I know what you mean.
That was kind of you to say howyou're going to stop making
mistakes.
I mean, we're making mistakesall the time.
I make mistakes all the timeand I think learning from those
is something that continues.
That's important.
So, yeah, how am I going topreserve the brand?
I think a big mistake that lotsof small brands make is trying
(59:52):
to compete with the big brandswhen it comes to throwing so
much resource and so muchcapital at advertising and
social media and trying to keepup with the big brands, and I
think that that's a mistakebecause eventually you're just
going to run out of steam andrun out of money.
So not, so not not making themistake of throwing so much
(01:00:19):
money because we think we've gotto compete with Rolex or
Richard Mille or or Breitling.
You're never going to competewith these guys in terms of
their marketing spends, so don'ttry.
Do what you have to do, but Ithink putting more money into
making sure that yourproposition is improving your
(01:00:41):
customer base are delighted tobe part of the brand.
I think that that's how we'regoing to continue um, growing
the growing ulster and makingsure it's still here in another
80 years time.
Next year's our 80th anniversary, so we'll we'll do some special
things there.
We're talking at the momentabout doing a model for that
(01:01:04):
anniversary and maybe one or twobrand partnerships, so that's
exciting.
But we're not going to make themistake of throwing so much
money into marketing thatthere's nothing left for
improvement of the product andimprovement of the experience.
Blake Rea (01:01:26):
Wow, yeah, I can't wait to see what you guys do
next year.
Obviously, huge fan.
Thank you so much for spendingjust about an hour with us kind
of breaking down the brand,answering some of the questions
that I had.
Hopefully, you know, um, youknow also it comes to a wrist
near you, you know, for all thelisteners.
(01:01:46):
So, um, I, I can't, I can'twait to to get my first all
stuff and um, and we'll have tohave a chat about that at some
point later.
Angus McFadden (01:01:56):
So we will.
We will for sure.
Thank you for your kind words,and I'm also a huge fan of what
you're doing.
It's difficult to really carvea niche out in the space that
you're in and you're you'reknocking it out, so well done
thank you.
Blake Rea (01:02:08):
Thank you so much.
It means it means a lot.
We will see you on the next oneand we're definitely going to
stay in touch and everybodywe're going to link all stuff
below Definitely encourage youto go check them out.
They're definitely worthy, inmy opinion, of your money and if
you haven't seen one, you mightbe the first one in your friend
(01:02:29):
group to start the trend there.
Thank you so much, angus.
Appreciate your time.
Thank you, blake.
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
here of the Lonely Wrist Podcast.
I'm your host, as always, ofcourse, blake Ray, and today's
guest is on a mission to keepinga vintage watch brand alive.
The brand, I'm sure you know bynow, is Alsta, and it's back
from the history books and inthe hands of a new generation.
(00:22):
Our guest, angusus sorryhiccups today is not just
re-releasing the classics likethe nato scoff and the super
automatic.
He is creating fresh designslike the moto scoff, built for
people who actually get in thereand live.
Uh, angus is focused, since hishands on the brand is all about
(00:42):
authenticity, purpose and watchthat look absolutely incredible
, perform flawlessly and carry astory with them from the golden
age of skin divers.
What's next for moderncollectors?
He is shaping the brand, bothrooted in history and ready for
adventure.
So let's get into it.
Please welcome the man behindall still watches, angus
mcfadden.
(01:03):
Hey, blake, good to see youagain yeah, I messed up my intro
there a little bit but whocares?
We'll roll we'll roll with it.
Um, I'm curious about how yougot exposed to the brand um and
why did you decide to revivealso of all brands?
Angus McFadden (01:20):
yes, so I was, uh, I was a collector and I
collected lots of the usualstuff.
I collected Rolex sportswatches from the 1960s and 70s
and I was getting frustratedbecause it was so difficult to
get hold of good Rolex piecesthat you could trust were
(01:42):
authentic and hadn't beentampered with.
And you know, I had some lotsof good experiences and I had a
bad experience where I bought avintage submariner from a
reputable rolex dealer, sent itto get serviced and was told
that in fact it didn't have allauthentic parts in it.
(02:02):
So I just thought this isgetting too difficult and I was
looking at other.
I started collecting otherbrands, such as Yig LeCoultre,
and I had some Omegas and I hada Breguet and in a part exchange
bundle I ended up getting anAlster dive watch and I thought
(02:25):
what on earth is this?
In a part exchange bundle Iended up getting an Ulster dive
watch and I thought what onearth is this?
So I then started researchingit and going down the rabbit
hole and discovered that thebrand had a fantastic heritage,
had been around since 1946, andhad a whole back catalogue of
(02:47):
dress watches, chronographs,ladies' dress and cocktail
watches, and then skin diversand divers and other sports
watches, and I also discoveredat that time that Alstair had
disappeared in the late 70s, hadgone out of business in 1978.
And I thought not much more ofit.
(03:09):
And I always had a.
I always had a, an idea that Iwould love to have started a
watch brand, and the reason Ididn't do it was, for me, watch
brands need to have backstoryand they need to have something
behind them, not just the branditself.
Unless you've got unlimitedfunds in order to build a new
(03:34):
brand, like bishop meal did, Ibelieve that a watch brand needs
to have a backstory and havesome romance and have a little
bit of sex appeal to it.
And I thought how do you dothat from scratch?
Can you do it authenticallyfrom scratch without spending,
you know, millions on uh, onmarketing and building a new
(03:55):
brand story?
And that was stopping me.
And then I thought I wonder if Icould revive a brand that is no
longer with us, one that hadheritage and a great backstory.
And then I started thinkingabout my little Alsta skin diver
that was sitting in one of mywatch boxes.
So, to cut a long story short,I then acquired the brand and
(04:23):
started acquiring the assets andthe IP and the rights to the
brand worldwide, and I thoughtthis is more like it, a brand
with heritage.
When I've got some time andsome money, one of these days, I
might do something with this,but of course, the itch needed
(04:46):
to be scratched and before Iknew it, I was away meeting
suppliers in Switzerland andgetting kind of deep into it.
And then I this was in 2014.
2014, I started this wholeprocess of acquiring the brand
and then fast forward to 2017,we released our first watch of
(05:08):
the new, revived Ulster in March2017.
Blake Rea (05:20):
And that was a revival, an update of the Not A
Scaff Skin Diver.
Wow, yeah, it's a great story.
And then, out of all the watchbrands you could have revived, I
think you probably revived oneof the more desirable ones,
especially from an Americanperspective, because it has
(05:43):
pretty significant culturalutter.
He was born in Belgium, movedto New Jersey, then moved to New
York and then started his watchbrand.
That's correct.
And then yeah, I mean, I'mobviously from Vegas.
So Johnny Depp wore one in Fearand Loathing right, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Of course we've got the iconicrichard dreyfus from from jaws
(06:06):
right, which I think you get themost clout for um yeah and and
so I guess your entireacquisition from the time you
decided to start acquiring theip till launch when.
When was so?
Was it 2014 and then 2017?
Did I understand?
Angus McFadden (06:24):
2014, I started the process and, um, yeah, three
years between then and, uh,releasing the, the first piece,
and that was a combination ofthings.
It was really the fact thatthings do take time sometimes
when you're dealing with dealingwith lawyers and attorney, ip
attorneys and also acquiringrights.
(06:45):
The rights in certain countries, including the US, was owned by
a Swiss company and I had tonegotiate and acquire the brand
from them.
So there was a whole load ofdifferent things going on and,
to be honest, I wasn't in a hugehurry because I was already
doing other things.
I already had another businessand I wasn't in a huge hurry.
It was already doing otherthings.
(07:05):
Um already had another businessand I wasn't in a huge hurry.
It was a passion project.
It was something that I wantedto do and I thought, when I get
around to it, I'll get around toit.
But then, as 2015-2016 came, itwas gathering.
I was gathering pace, I washaving conversations with
suppliers and then saying, right, okay, I'm going to do this.
(07:26):
So um did some prototyping, didan initial run of the first
watch and I thought, if nobodybuys these, at least I'll have a
watch that I like and I'll putthe rest on ebay, but they did
like them and that first modelsold out.
But your point a minute agoabout being such an American
brand, that's totally right.
(07:46):
The brand is rooted in theUnited States.
It started in the United Statesby Joseph, as you said, in New
Jersey and then New York justafter the Second World War and
then they traded out of New Yorkuntil they closed and the
watches were always made inSwitzerland but then shipped to
(08:09):
New York to maybe be cased or tobe assembled and shipped out.
And even today the majority ofour customer base is in the US.
Blake Rea (08:19):
I would say probably 80% to 90% of our customers are
in the us something that I alsofound when doing my research was
um, ulster had never made aquartz watch ever in history,
which I found pretty interesting.
And you know, obviously I thinkeverybody knows what happened
(08:41):
in the seventies, right, thecourts crisis, and do you think,
uh, I mean I had to dosomething with?
Uh, I guess the struggles thatthey faced, or just their, their
lack of um at the time and andsorry to to knock on some of
your uh, your, your, your formeruh, your former colleagues, um,
(09:02):
but the uh, the lack of kind ofwilling to, to adapt to, you
know, a new market yeah, no, no,you're not.
Angus McFadden (09:12):
You're not knocking them at all.
I think that's.
I think that's quite accurateand the thing that, the thing
that really surprised me wasthat Ulster hadn't tried to make
quartz watches, because I thinkthat they would have been
successful.
I think we would have been umsuccessful in in bringing out
(09:33):
developing quartz watches thatpeople wanted.
The reason I think that is thatwe always seem to be.
We always seem to be at theforefront and catching the
zeitgeist of the time.
When everyone was making dresswatches, a few brands started
(09:56):
getting into making dresschronographs and then sports
chronographs and we were one ofthe brands that was doing that
in the early days.
And then the trend starteddeveloping for sports watches.
So people were starting to getmore leisure time, having a bit
more affluence, starting to lookat things like diving and
(10:16):
fishing and and sailing andother leisure activities and
again, asta was at the forefrontof developing those sports
watches.
Then the dive watches and then,when the the morning case style
case was being made for hoyerand some of the other zenit and
(10:38):
some of the other brands, againoster was there having their
watches cased in these moderncases.
So we're always with with the,the trend, so to speak.
So the natural thing to happenwould be that when quartz
watches became a thing, thatulster leaned into those and
(11:00):
became a a maker of quartz.
But I think by that time theowner had maybe run out of steam
and decided that enough wasenough.
And I've spoken, I've had a fewconversations over the years
with the founder, with Joseph'sdaughter, who lives in
(11:20):
California and she's now in her80s, and she was of the belief
that I think he had reinventedUlster so many times that it got
to the point where he said Idon't know if I've got the
energy for this anymore, to doanother reinvention and another
pivot.
(11:40):
So they didn't.
But ironically the quarkscrisis probably killed them, but
they would have done well hadthey embraced it and done quarks
watches agreed conveniently.
Blake Rea (11:54):
Also, you don't have a chronograph in your collection
.
Is that something that we canexpect from you in the future?
Angus McFadden (12:00):
maybe for sure for sure, because some of some
of our chronographs you've seenthem some of them are absolutely
beautiful, beautiful.
The reason we haven't done themyet is because we we have been
on a mission to bring the brandback and to re-establish
(12:20):
ourselves in the, in the mindsof the, the watch enthusiast
community, and build ourlegitimacy as a, as a heritage
brand, and it's been my, it'sbeen my strategy to do that step
by step, rather than goingstraight in making expensive,
(12:44):
expensive to make and expensiveto buy um chronographs before
we've got the legitimacy of the,of the watch collecting public,
re-establish that legitimacy,should I say um?
So I've wanted to do a step at atime and just make sure that
we're making watches that peoplewant and starting off not
(13:08):
particularly expensive.
I mean, it's still an expensivewatch.
Even our first watch in 2017was $800.
And that's still a lot of money, but it's not $3,000 or $4,000,
which is what a chronographwould be.
So I think we need to go onthat journey with our
(13:30):
enthusiasts and our customersand eventually get there.
And it's my desire to launch achronograph for sure, I don't
want to do one half-baked.
I want to do it properly andhave a nice refined piece with a
good movement, and it's goingto cost a bit more, so we will
(13:50):
get there for sure.
Blake Rea (13:52):
You definitely don't strike me as somebody who likes
to rush things either.
You talked about doing this asa passion project and just
letting the wind blow you in thedirection.
Angus McFadden (14:03):
it seemed like project, and just kind of
letting the wind kind of blowyou in the direction.
It seemed like, um, yeah, it's,yeah, it's total opposite from
my other business life.
So I've got two business livesI've I'm involved in in tech, at
the cutting edge of tech thingslike ai, machine learning,
quantum computing, robotics, andthat stuff moves at a million
(14:26):
miles an hour.
That's really fast and fastdecisions being made and fast
progress and the world ischanging so so much every year.
And the watch industry for meis, is not that, it's something
that moves a bit more slowly.
Maybe people who are long-termwatch industry people will say
(14:47):
no things are changing all thatrapidly, but for me they seem.
It seems to be a slower, aslower rate of change.
And you're dealing, we'redealing with people.
When I say dealing with people,what we're appealing to and
talking to people who arespending their hard-earned money
and putting their trust in usthat we're going to give them
something of quality andsomething that will last and
(15:10):
something that has legitimacy.
So I do like to take my timeand deliberate over that before
asking somebody to part withtheir hard-earned money for one
of our products yeah, no, thatmakes sense.
Blake Rea (15:23):
Uh, also curious too.
So when you acquired, like theip and I've asked this to other
revival watch brands becauseit's always interesting to me um
, not only did you get the, thenamesake, but did you, did you
have any like drawings?
Did you have any like likediagram, like what?
What was it included in your,in your acquisition, right?
Angus McFadden (15:47):
there wasn't a lot.
Um, we got some archives butmost of the archives were lost
in water damage, um, back in thethe 19 I think it was 1980s,
after the company had folded.
So we didn't get much in theway of archives and we've been
slowly piecing together anarchive, a written archive and a
physical archive.
(16:07):
So we do have technicaldrawings and we do have
photographic assets and we'vealso had other people online
doing research and buildingbodies of research about the
brand.
We've also been doing thatinternally, but we've also built
a really nice archive physicalarchive of watches from the
(16:34):
1950s right through to when thecompany folded in the 70s.
So we've got a really nicearchive of dress watches,
chronographs.
So we've got a really nicearchive of dress watches,
chronographs, some really raredivers and even a regatta timer.
So we've got some reallybeautiful watches that they're
(16:55):
going to serve as ourinspiration for the coming years
.
And I also have this fantasythat one day we might do a book,
might a nice I don't knowcoffee table book with, uh,
these beautiful photographs, andso I'd love to do that.
We work, we work with this umfantastic photographer in new
york, adam moore.
(17:16):
I'm sure you know him and, um,he has photographed some of our
um most of our vintage piecesand, uh, he totally gets the
brand in terms of the look andthe feel, so I'd love to put
those in a book one day.
Blake Rea (17:32):
That'd be epic um beyond, like the, not a scarf,
which is the one that you, Iguess um that you own that
decided to bring the brand back.
Are there any other all-stardesigns that you feel represent
the to bring the brand back?
Are there any other Alstadesigns that you feel represent
the original brand spirit?
Angus McFadden (17:51):
So the Super Automatic is our marquee piece.
We're really lucky to have that.
I've contributed to articlesover the last the time that I've
been running Alistair.
I've contributed to articles oniconic pieces.
You know, the audemars has theroyal oak and rolex has the
(18:13):
submariner and I'm notsuggesting we're up there with
them, but I've been asked tocontribute to articles that talk
about that iconic piece thatsometimes brands have the one
that will always be here, theone that's potentially got a 50
year or 100 year lifespan andwe're so lucky to have that
piece.
We're lucky to have heritage.
(18:33):
We're lucky to have a reallyengaged, passionate, customer
enthusiast base, but we're alsoreally lucky to have that piece
that will serve us and we planto be carrying on that super
automatic range for theforeseeable future, for as long
as people want it.
(18:53):
So I think that's one thatreally serves the spirit of the
brand, and when we brought outthe NautisGaff in 2017, lots of
people said oh, why didn't youdo the super automatic?
You should have done the superautomatic first, and there's
always a reason for things, andthe reason that we didn't bring
(19:17):
the super automatic out as thefirst release at that time was
the bracelet was so difficult tomake that.
I just wasn't willing tocompromise and bring it out on a
different bracelet or on abracelet that wasn't of
sufficient quality.
So I wasn't happy that we weregetting the quality of bracelet
(19:39):
you know the Hooper braceletthat we have on the Super
Automatic.
I just wasn't happy that we hadit right.
So I said, right, we've got todo the Nautiscaf instead, and
then when we can get thebracelet right on the Super
Automatic, we'll release that.
So that's why it was threeyears after the release of the
Nautis Scaf that the SuperAutomatic came out.
Blake Rea (20:02):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I mean it sounds like faithfulaccuracy is quite important to
you.
I mean it sounds like you knowfaithful accuracy is quite
important to you and you know,obviously you're reintroducing a
vintage brand to a modernaudience.
Like, I'm sure there'schallenges there that maybe you
didn't expect.
Yes, I'm sure if you couldtouch on some of those.
Angus McFadden (20:27):
Yeah, sure, if you, yeah, if you could touch on
some of those.
Yeah, the challenges I thinkthe challenges are around, um,
managing expectations of your,of your passionate customers, um
, in a way that you're nevergoing to please everyone, okay,
but we try and please as as manypeople as we can.
(20:49):
So when we brought the superautomatic out, a few customers
said but why doesn't it have themagnifier, the date magnifier
on the crystal?
And my answer to that was thatthe date magnifier and the
crystal is a really difficultthing to get right without
(21:12):
distorting the number underneath, and I wanted to make sure that
we got that right before wereleased a super automatic with
the date magnifier.
And then some other peopleasked why didn't you release it
with the red lollipop secondshand and the magnifier?
So, do you know?
(21:33):
I think it's trying to explainto our customers that we'll get
around all these things, butsometimes you've got to do that
by evolution and build somethingthat's faithful to the original
, but there might be one, theremight be one or two details that
you don't manage to replicatefirst time.
Now the thing is that peopleasked about the red lollipop
(21:58):
second hand.
Why didn't we do that?
Now, on the Jaws when they'rewatching the Jaws movie, that
had a red lollipop second hand,but most of them didn't.
Most of the originals didn'thave the red lollipop seconds
hand.
Most had either the arrow thatour current super automatic has,
or it had a white squarelollipop.
(22:19):
So, um, trying to get somethingthat most customers like but
still keeping it authentic is achallenge.
I have to ask do you know whathappened?
Blake Rea (22:40):
to Richard Dreyfuss' watch?
Angus McFadden (22:40):
Yeah, I do, do you have it?
I had it in my hand recently.
So there's a great video thatyou should watch and your
viewers should watch.
It's on our website.
You should watch and yourviewers should watch.
It's on our website.
We released it for the 50thanniversary of Jaws on the 20th
of June this year and it's avideo of us servicing the actual
watch from the movie.
(23:01):
It's incredible.
So I got the watch from theowner and asked if we could
service it for him because wewould love to film it.
I said, look, we'll service itand we'll do any repairs that
are needing done, and we'll dothat in exchange for keeping the
(23:24):
watch for a while so that wecan make some great content with
it.
So he said, yeah, that'stotally fine.
So he sent it to me and that'sincredible this watch with so
much history, this is the actualwatch that was on Dreyfus's
wrist and it's been validated.
We've got proper validationthat that is the watch.
(23:46):
I've been offered the originalfilm watch so many times by
people contacting us and saying,oh, would you like to buy the
original?
So we had the original from theowner, who is connected with
the original movie and connectedwith.
So it came from the propcollection of the original movie
(24:11):
.
So, yeah, if you look in thewebsite, you'll see the video of
it being opened and beingserviced, and then we sent it
back to the owner, who is thendisplaying it at a Universal
Studios Jaws celebration at theAcademy Museum, and we released
that on the 20th of june, whichwas the 50th anniversary of the
(24:32):
release of the movie in the us.
Blake Rea (24:36):
I hope he wears it.
Man, have you, that's a watch Iwould wear.
I'd wear the shit out of thatactually no, I would wear it.
Angus McFadden (24:45):
I would wear.
He don't think he does wear it.
It tends to be on display.
He's also got roy scheider's umhamilton that he wore in the
movie so he's, he's also gotthat, um, and he said you want
me to send you that too, and Itried to find a nice way of
saying that I don't need that,yeah that'd be cool, but I mean,
(25:06):
it's not going to be something.
Blake Rea (25:07):
We're going to wrap some PR around.
Angus McFadden (25:09):
Exactly, Exactly .
So no, we did some good PRaround that and then two weeks
later, on the 4th of July, wereleased our new Super Automatic
, which 4th of July was a bigdate in the US, but it was also
a big date in the Jaws movie aswell.
That's how we met obviously theJaws movie as well.
Blake Rea (25:27):
That's how we met, obviously.
I mean, I've been watching allstuff for a while and I've been
going back and forth with myfriends, right, like which one
do you think I should get whentime comes?
And then I saw that you guyswere teasing the Super Automatic
and I was like, oh shit, Like.
(25:49):
I need to prepare my wallet andthen, yeah, the uh was not
disappointing at all.
Um, I think is you guys did agreat job, uh, with the new
super automatic and uh, and I'mhoping at some some point I
could, I could still acquire one.
I'm kind of on a on a buyingfreeze.
I've been talking to my wife Ijust bought so much camera gear.
The last thing I'm thinkingabout right now is sadly buying
(26:17):
a watch.
Yeah, I hope so, I hope so.
So I guess fast forward.
You decided to bring Ulster,obviously, to a modern audience
and you released the Motoscoff,which didn't exist before your
acquisition.
How did that collection come tobe and why did you feel like
(26:42):
you needed to introducesomething?
Angus McFadden (26:45):
Yeah, so I guess this goes back to your question
a minute ago about thechallenges of introducing a
heritage brand to a modernaudience.
On one hand, the heritagepieces like the super automatic,
the nautiscaf, the chronographsthat's what our enthusiasts are
asking.
(27:06):
They're asking for more of that, more of the of the original
pieces to be re-released.
But there are a lot ofcustomers out there who are
saying why are you only stickingto those small number of pieces
?
Why don't you innovate and dosome new things and bring some
new models to the market?
So we went through a periodwhere we were bringing out some
(27:30):
new things, looking at some newlook not-a-scaffs, so doing
not-a-scaffs, with coloureddials, with coloured bezels
instead of the classic black.
And then I looked at the.
I was thinking about the ideaof doing something else, maybe
like something connected withdriving or connecting with
motorcycling, and I was talkingto um, a friend of mine in the
(27:55):
us, um alan fermello, who usedto run the beyond the dial
podcast, and he was saying whydon't you do a motorcycle watch?
Because there isn't one outthere.
There are motorcycle-themedwatches, so watches that have
motorcycle logos on the dial,but there's nothing that's been
(28:17):
built from the ground up for amotorcyclist, considering what a
motorcyclist is looking for interms of the ruggedness and the
shock-proofness of it, the factthat it has the Destro crown,
the crown on the left side, yeah, and it just the conversation
started moving in that directionand the next thing we were
(28:42):
prototyping the piece, did a bitof research into our customer
base to see if it's somethingthat they would be interested in
and they said yeah.
So we brought that out in alimited, in a limited number,
and I also was keen to make the.
So the case that the watchcomes in is bigger than our
(29:03):
usual watch pouch and that's sothat it can accommodate a pair
of sunglasses for a motorcyclist.
So I got the prototype of thepouch made and then was trying
every different type ofsunglasses you can think of,
from wayfarers to you know, allthe different styles to make
sure that they fitted into thispouch, into this pouch so that
(29:25):
motorcyclists can not just throwit in a drawer but actually use
it.
So that was what was behindthat, um, that model, and then
that then starts theconversation about does that
become a permanent collection, apermanent product within the
answer, collection, and I guessthat's that's another challenge
(29:48):
trying to make those decisions.
Do we make the decision and say,yes, we're going to do it,
we're going to back our modelsand we're going to bring the
next one out?
Or do we go back to ourcustomers and ask them?
And that's what we tend to do.
We tend to ask our customers alot.
We do a lot of emailing and Iemail directly to a lot of our
(30:09):
customers saying can I ask yousomething?
If we brought this out, wouldthat interest you?
And some of them say, yeah, itreally would.
I can't afford it at the moment, but I would buy it if I could
afford it.
And some others say, yeah, putme down for one.
And then others say no, it'snot of interest.
(30:29):
So we like to do a lot of that,so asking the customers what
they want and then thejudgment's back on us about what
the final product looks like.
We did that with the new SuperAutomatic.
We ran a sort of focus groupwith about 250 of our customers
and we asked them to help us umwith what they wanted to see,
(30:53):
what they didn't want to see,what they like, what they don't
like, what they would pay extrafor and what they wouldn't pay
extra for, what they just regardas being, um, standard
equipment that you don't need topay extra for.
So really asked a lot ofquestions of the customers and
then, okay, we take that anddesign something that that we
(31:15):
think will appeal to to morepeople than not I'm assuming
that you got back, like you know, solita movement, you know
things like that, upgradedmovement and yeah, yeah, we got
a lot of.
Yeah, we got a lot of.
We want to see swiss movementin there which was, which was
fine.
And we asked um, what about thethickness?
(31:37):
You still want it thick or doyou want it thinner, so that
more refined, so you can wear itunder a shirt or you could wear
it as a sports watch?
And then, um, is the?
What about the bracelet?
How important is that to you?
Is that just something thatkeeps the watch on your wrist,
or is that part of the overallpackage?
Do you want some morerefinement there?
(31:57):
Do you want micro adjustment onit?
Do you want a different type ofsecurity?
Do you want, like push buttonopening, or don't you care about
that?
What about the end links?
Do you want them to fit closely, like a bit like an integrated
bracelet, or do you like thegaps, the flaws of the original
1970s watch?
So we ask all these questionswhat about a dome crystal?
(32:22):
Do you like the dome crystal ordo you not?
And it's incredible, when youask customers those questions,
some of them say, yeah, we wantthe crystal as big and domed as
possible, to be vintage.
And then we have others who say, no, I want it to be more
refined, so that it's a sportswatch but could be worn as a
dress watch.
So we need to take all of thatinto account.
Blake Rea (32:46):
It brings me perfectly to the question of um,
you know what?
What is an all star watch toyou Like?
You know, you have a stereotype, or I shouldn't say
stereotypical, but in your mindit has to meet a certain
criteria, right.
So, from the horse's mouth, youknow what do you feel like.
Angus McFadden (33:07):
And also, watch has to have before you would
even consider releasingsomething like that so I've
always been conscious of thefact that when we're bringing
bringing a new brand back andand appealing to customers that
haven't maybe haven'texperienced the brand before,
(33:28):
you need to be conscious ofbudget, and I've been conscious
of bringing watches to the toour customer base that are too
expensive, because if you dothat, it then becomes something
that's not as easy to, it's notas easy to buy, but it's also
not as easy for a new customerto join the Ulster family.
(33:50):
If you say it's £3,000 to buy,or $3,000 to buy an Ulster ie a
brand you've never heard of, oryou could buy a pre-owned Heuer
or something for three grand,what are you going to?
What are you going to go for?
Right?
Well, it's a difficult.
It'd be difficult to imaginesomeone going for a new revived
(34:15):
brand they'd never heard of andspending that money.
So I've always been consciousof making sure it's affordable.
Um, so that was.
That was part of the reasoningbehind the early pieces having
Seiko movements in them.
I wanted the watches made inSwitzerland, but in order to
make them in Switzerland andstill keep them affordable, the
(34:39):
one thing I was prepared to giveup the Swiss part was the
movement, because Seiko makereally good movements.
So now I think we've got somemore brand equity, some more
brand recognition and some morelegitimacy.
I keep saying the wordlegitimacy, but it is a really I
think it's a good way todescribe it.
(35:01):
I think we've got thatlegitimacy now with a broader
customer base who will say, yeah, okay, I'll spend $1,300 on one
of their watches because I knowwho they are and I've
experienced how they treat me.
I've experienced how they areto deal with and what it feels
like to be part of that brand.
(35:24):
So, to bring it back to yourquestion, I think having it
Swiss made as much as possible,because people do expect that
it's a bit of a hygiene factorwhen you're buying a spending
four figures on a on a watch andso I wanted to have that.
I wanted to have a certainamount of refinement.
I don't want it just nottogether.
It needs to be, have a certainlevel of refinement and feel
(35:46):
that it could be a dress watchas well as being a sports watch,
and I want it to also be.
I want it to be informed andinfluenced by the heritage and
by the vintage pieces, but not acarbon copy.
I want it to be an evolution,so it might look like a super
automatic, but it's got modernmaterials and it's got a modern
(36:09):
movement and it's got a morerobust crystal on it and it's
maybe got a more robust bezel onit.
So, yeah, I I don't want it tobe just the um, I don't want to
be shaving cost all the time.
Blake Rea (36:26):
I want to find that balance between uh of value and
cost yeah, I mean it makes sensebecause if you think about the
golden years of watchmaking, the60s, like late 50s, late 60s,
um, you know, if you've everowned a vintage watch, I mean
they're not daily drivers,unfortunately.
(36:47):
I mean, I don't have thecourage to daily drive a vintage
watch.
Um, and you know there's a lotof modern advancements that can,
you know, essentially extendthe life beyond right, you know
you've got new technology,silicon um, you know, back in
the day, I mean, they weren'tusing a lot of sapphire crystals
, they're using a lot of acrylic, you know.
And, um, you know, watchesweren't made.
(37:09):
I mean, they were made well, ofcourse, but they, you know
there's been a lot ofadvancements that, um, you know,
I, I think and I've said thisbefore, and I, anytime I've sent
a watch, even and to, to getrestored, you know, I, I would
like a vintage looking modernwatch, you, so I think that's
(37:30):
what, that's what resonated withwith me.
You know, I want modern tech byvintage design.
Yes, and that's what?
Angus McFadden (37:36):
yeah that's what you have absolutely, and I love
the fact that we are that anon-obvious choice.
You know, if you, um, if youwalk into a room and there's
lots of people with uh, wearingwatchies, um, the chances of
finding someone else in the sameroom wearing an ulster is quite
(37:58):
slim.
The chances of finding somebodywho's wearing an omega or a
brightling or a rolex orwhatever is is quite high.
But the chances of walking intoa room and seeing more than one
Alistair is quite slim.
And I love that because it'sthat less obvious choice.
The Matt Hooper character inJaws the reason that he had the
(38:21):
Alistair as opposed to a Rolexwas because, although he was a
man of means and came from anaffluent background, he wasn't
flash.
He didn't want the obviouschoice.
He wanted something that wasrobust and quality and something
that would last, and it didn'tmatter if it wasn't a brand.
So that was really chosen forhim because it was that
(38:43):
non-obvious choice.
And the costume designer forFear and Loathing in Las Vegas
did exactly the same, puttingJohnny Depp's costumes together,
saying we want a watch.
That's not the obvious choice.
It's not to be a Rolex, it's tobe something that maybe bears
some resemblance to it and isrobust but a bit of a rebel's
(39:08):
choice robust but a bit of arebel's choice.
And then, doing the research,she discovered the rebel, who
was the oceanographer in jawsand he had this watch.
So maybe that's a good choicefor ralph duke in fear and
loathing.
And then the next big movieappearance last summer,
something in the water, whichwas a a buddy movie, but a shark
(39:32):
played a big part in that.
So the character that wore thesuper automatic in that movie
again was the rebel, was thecharacter who was the, who was
not going to have the obviouschoice on her wrist.
That was good because that'sher wrist, but it was female
lead who was, um, one of thefemale leads who was wearing the
watch I'll have to go back andwatch that.
Blake Rea (39:53):
Obviously.
I've seen draws.
I've seen fear and loathing inlas vegas and, um, you know,
obviously johnny depp and fearand loathing, it's like one of
my favorite, like all-time moviecharacters.
I think his quirkiness and hisuh, uh, I guess excitement about
life is, is, and his perceptionis it's very uh, it's very odd,
(40:15):
but it's uh, it's one of myall-time favorite characters in
a movie I think you know and youdon't need to.
Angus McFadden (40:21):
You don't need to advocate the stuff that he
got up to in order to say youknow, I get the, I get the watch
connection and I get that sortof rebellious choice.
You don't need to agree withthe stuff he did to get that.
Blake Rea (40:36):
I have to ask do you know what happened to Johnny
Depp's watch?
Angus McFadden (40:41):
I don't.
I do have my detectives outworking on it, though.
Blake Rea (40:49):
No, I'm pretty, pretty big and this is weird.
I don't think I've ever talkedabout this publicly, but I'm
huge in um, in like movie props,right.
So, like, I literally look atat prop store which is like a
uk-based, uh like prop house andthey sell, you know, like, like
either like screen worn itemsor you know like like props from
(41:12):
the films, like I mean, theysell all that stuff and I've
been, I've been eyeing watcheson there for a while.
You know, the ones that I was,I was actually bidding on was
one of the the Omegas.
The the Omega from it was theSeamaster 300, from not no Time
(41:33):
to Die, but the one before it,you know, the one that he had in
his hand where he was tied up.
Oh right, and it turned into alittle bomb or something right.
Angus McFadden (41:44):
Okay, yeah, so you're going to bid for that,
are you?
Blake Rea (41:47):
Yeah, I made a bid for it and it just started
getting up there way too highfor what I think, yeah, yeah, so
you're gonna bid for that, areyou?
Yeah, I, I, yeah.
I made a bid for it and it juststarted getting up there like
way too high for what I think,uh, specter, specter, um, yeah
yeah, anything james bondconnected is going to be really
expensive yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's the reason why I'mjust kind of curious.
Um, and I guess in the future.
(42:08):
So your brand has been built onthe cinematic appearances,
right?
Is that something that you knowyou guys are going to try and
continue through legacy, likeyou know?
Do you want, you know, morescreen visibility in the future?
Is that what you're going tohang on to or even try to
achieve?
Angus McFadden (42:28):
I don't know, because On one hand, the screen
visibility has been the thingthat's really brought us to the
public's attention, but on theother hand, it's something that
I feel, yeah, I'm a bitconflicted on it.
On one hand, it doesn't feelvery authentic sort of paying to
(42:49):
have your watch appearing in amovie for us anyway.
On the other hand, it givesbrand visibility.
So I think that's something wemight do in an opportunistic way
rather than chasing it.
The reason we appeared inSomething in the Water, for
example, is that the director ofthat movie is a customer and an
(43:12):
enthusiast and she wears asuper automatic all the time.
She wears it on set when she'smaking movies.
She wears it when she's not onon set, and she was like I'd
love to have a little nod tojaws in the movie and most
(43:36):
people won't get it.
But if you know, you know.
So, yeah, that's why weappeared in that, and we also
have had conversations with themovie studio as well about
potentially doing something withthem in future.
But I think, um, we'll just,yeah, we'll just feel our way
with that one.
I don't want to be, and thereason I'm saying that I don't
(43:59):
want to be paying lots of moneyto appear in movies.
I just don't think that that'swho our customers are and who
our brand enthusiasts are andwho we are.
I think that we would be thenchasing a whole different
customer group, which is great.
We want to get new customers,of course.
(44:20):
We want to keep building thethe answer customer group, but
at the moment our customer groupis really engaged and
passionate and um and loads ofour customers have more than one
piece and I just think theywould feel that we might have
lost that special thing thatthey love about us if we started
(44:42):
then spending our profits onmovie appearances.
Blake Rea (44:47):
Yeah, well, obviously that has to be transferred back
to the cost of the customer,right?
Like, if you're spending 300, Idon't even know how much it
would cost 200, 000, 100, 000 tohave product placement and an
xyz movie, like you wouldn't beable to keep your watches in
that what I I would considervery, uh, obtainable price
(45:08):
segment.
You know, I mean, you have aquality product, um, I've seen
one allsta in my life on just,unfortunately, just one um, and
you know it doesn't take longfor you to realize that you have
, you know, a great product.
It, almost instantaneously,once you put it in your hand,
the fit to finish the build,it's all there, um.
(45:30):
But you know that would put youinto a whole new price segment.
You know your, your entry doorwould be double what it is now.
I think, and and you knowyou're you're on the right, the
right track to to being able tokeep these watches obtainable,
right?
You know there's not a lot ofwatches out there that are
history, powered with legacy,with the story, you know, that
(45:52):
are under a thousand dollars,like please show me another
watch that has similar, you knowheritage under a thousand
dollars and in your case, likewhat?
Seven hundred dollars, right?
Angus McFadden (46:04):
yeah, yeah, yeah , the last super automatic was
800, the new one is 1300.
Blake Rea (46:08):
Just under 1300, yeah , but still even the, not even
the, not a scoff, you know like700, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
even the Nodoscoff.
Angus McFadden (46:15):
Nodoscoff is like $700.
Blake Rea (46:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that is right there in that
obtainable segment.
I think You're right there.
Angus McFadden (46:25):
It's just where your priorities are really.
Even if we had the money tosplash out on a movie appearance
, that money could be muchbetter used.
I would say improving otherthings Like R&D, Instead of
improving our visibility to anew customer group.
That might happen away in thefuture, but at the moment that
(46:47):
money could be better spentimproving our product, improving
our communications with ourcustomers, improving our service
.
All those things are good atthe moment, but the you can
always be better and I thinkspending those making the
experience of being an answercustomer is where I would rather
put the money, um, rather thanspending it on trying to build
(47:10):
our audience makes sense.
Blake Rea (47:12):
Super, you know you get.
You have described Ulster asyou know authentic, you know
purpose driven and sophisticatedin the modern watch landscape.
Which one of those do you feelis probably the hardest to
maintain?
Angus McFadden (47:33):
I think authenticity is possibly the
hardest to maintain for the, forthe reasons that we've just
been talking about.
Right, you know, I think you.
Then you can then get draggedaway from your heritage or
(47:53):
dragged away from the thingsthat make you an attractive
proposition.
You can be easily dragged awayfrom those.
If someone came along and saidto me, would you like to go down
a whole different path?
We'll throw lots of money atyou and go down a different path
with the brand and startbuilding a different type of
watch for a different type ofcustomer.
(48:14):
So there you go.
You need to make a businessdecision.
Do we want to grow thisbusiness and do we want to start
becoming higher volume, or dowe want to maintain that
authenticity that we have andthat's really hard to hold on to
?
Someone gives you thatopportunity.
You need to weigh it up.
What's more important?
(48:35):
Things like purposefulness ofthe, the watches I think that
that's reasonably easy tomaintain and and the
sophistication too.
Now, that's sophistication isnot something that I made up.
It's something that customers,when we did our focus group last
year as well, they were sayingthese are you know what.
(48:57):
Give us some words that youthink of that come to mind when
you think of alstom, when youlook at our content online, or
if you look at our watch, orgive us some words that you
think of, and the wordsophisticated came up again and
again.
They said, yeah, yeah, you'rerugged, yes, you're tough tool
watches, but you've got thatlittle.
(49:18):
Somebody said you've got alittle kind of sex, a bit of sex
appeal, which I loved.
I thought that was brilliant.
I would never have the audacityto say that about us, but it
was a customer that said it.
Say that about us, but it was acustomer that said it.
(49:40):
And um, so you know?
So I think, um, yeah, I, I.
So, to answer your question, Ithink the authenticity is
potentially the hardest to holdon to.
I'm hoping, I'm hoping you doit.
Blake Rea (49:51):
No, you're doing a good job.
And just for the record, Ioften refer to watches as sexy.
Angus McFadden (49:57):
Yeah, totally.
Blake Rea (50:00):
I agree with you there.
Angus McFadden (50:19):
You talked about .
You know, obviously in thefuture, you know, looking at
chronographs, you know, arethere any other complications
that you feel are worthy of theUlster label?
Yeah, I think a g I'd love todo, a gmt I would love to do.
We've been talking and doingdesigns of, uh, a gmt, a super
automatic, potentially a superautomatic gmt, or an autoscaff
GMT.
I think that does fit becauseif you think about the who, the
(50:40):
Ulster customer is somebody wholikes the outdoors, somebody who
likes a bit of adventure,somebody who on their weekends
maybe rides motorcycles, maybethey sail boats, maybe they go
fishing.
There's a lot of outdoor sports,um, that go, that goes on with
um, our typical customer, andadventure and travel go hand in
(51:04):
hand with those with thoseoutdoor activities.
So again, the romance of theheritage brand of travel and and
these types of things goperfectly with a gmt, with a
traveler's watch and I guessthat's the again the, the, the
(51:26):
romance of the heritage brandscoming out nobody needs a gmt
watch, nobody needs another,another time zone on their watch
, nobody even needs a watch.
Your iPhone or whatever phoneyou use gives a more accurate
time and it also gives youmultiple time zones.
(51:46):
So you don't need a GMT, but Ithink there's something quite I
don't know something quiteromantic and sophisticated about
GMTs.
So that's a long answer.
Blake Rea (52:00):
No, it's a great answer.
That's a great answer.
I think you're probably one ofthe first brand owners to ever
come on a podcast who owns awatch brand that says you don't
need a watch.
So hats off to you, buddy.
Angus McFadden (52:17):
We're talking about being authentic.
We're talking about beingauthentic.
We're talking about beingauthentic.
Blake Rea (52:22):
Yeah, we all know it, but it's never been vocalized
by a watch brand owner.
Let's lean into that a littlebit more.
So you talked about heritageright and bringing back a
heritage brand.
You know, and this is probably,I guess, one of the more
challenging questions I mightask I've got a couple more
(52:43):
challenging questions and I'mtrying to fit everything in here
to the top of the hour.
If you could sit down withJoseph Alciter today, you know,
what would you guys talk about?
What would you ask him?
What would you want to knowfrom him?
Angus McFadden (53:01):
Why did he throw in the towel instead of leaning
into the Quartz Revolution asopposed to Quartz Crisis, the
Quartz Revolution and get aheadof it and really build Ulster
for the late 20th century andinto the 21st century with
(53:22):
quartz watches?
I think I would ask him that.
Maybe most of the things he didwith the brand were really spot
on.
I think, as I said earlier, hereally kicked ahead of, was
often at the forefront of trends, but because he didn't have the
ambition to build a brand thathad global appeal and was
(53:43):
selling large volumes of watches, he was quite happy to say
we're going to make these lovelychronographs, then we're going
to go and make some lovelysports watches, then we're going
to go and do something else andthen run out of steam.
So that I think that's thequestion I would ask him why,
why did you not lean into quartz?
Blake Rea (54:03):
yeah, well, maybe he was leaving it for you maybe,
maybe what, what's?
uh, what do you feel I'm you?
Probably maybe you've gottensome misconceptions about Allsta
, you know if, because I knowthere's a lot of people who are
listening in my podcast rightnow that maybe aren't as sleuthy
(54:24):
on the internet as I am andhave maybe never heard of Allsta
.
But I'm sure maybe you've raninto some objections or maybe
misconceptions about the brand,or maybe even just people that
don't understand or even knowthe brand.
You know, what would you liketo say?
Angus McFadden (54:45):
you know we don't get too many objections.
Really.
I think in the early days wegot objections about why you're
not putting a swiss movement inyour watches, and I could talk
all day about why we we didn'tput a swiss movement in those
early watches.
Um, I think I've alreadymentioned it.
You know the choice.
(55:06):
The choices were to eithermanufacture in the far east and
put a swiss movement in whichlots of brands do, or do
something a bit different andget the start manufacturing in
Switzerland, put a Japanesemovement and then eventually
evolve into having a Swissmovement and an all-Swiss watch
(55:28):
and hopefully that leap from aSwiss watch with a Japanese
movement to an all-Swiss watchisn't such a big leap after all
in terms of price.
So we got lots of not not lots,but we did get questions about
why did you not put a Swisswatch?
And I think lots of theobjections come from probably a
(55:49):
misunderstanding of what goesinto making watches.
Sure, you know, I've had people.
I've had people saying you knowhow come of what goes into
making watches.
Sure, I've had people sayinghow come Seiko can make a dive
watch that costs $800 and youguys, it costs $1,200?
.
Blake Rea (56:04):
That's the question.
Angus McFadden (56:06):
Seiko makes 30 million watches a year and they
manufacture everything in-house.
And even Somebody once said tome you know I can get a Longines
for less expensive than yourswith the same spec.
(56:26):
It's like Longines makes oneand a half million watches a
year.
If you're making it that kindof volume, you can do a lot with
your pricing.
At that kind of volume you cando a lot with your pricing.
But to design and prototype andmanufacture and assemble and
(56:46):
quality control and market anddistribute watches made in
Switzerland at the prices thatwe do, I think we should be
applauded for, as opposed toanyone saying we think it's too
expensive even though it isn'texpensive.
I think often it's amisconception about how much
work goes into actually bringinga watch to market and how much
(57:11):
work goes in for a small brand,an independent brand that
doesn't have all the resources.
Blake Rea (57:16):
Yeah, I think I know the answer to this one, but
which watch past, present ormaybe even future?
Wink wink, do you feel best,tells the Ulster story.
As someone who's maybe neverheard of the brand, is it the
super automatic?
Angus McFadden (57:35):
Yeah, I think it is the super automatic.
Yeah, I think it is the superautomatic.
The the notice gaff was reallyimportant because that was the
entry into dive watches.
That was skin divers for at thetime, so that was the type of
watch that you would weardirectly on your skin.
It was for leisure diving.
And then the super automaticwas more of a professional
diver's watch.
But in reality professionaldivers don't tend divers
(57:57):
wouldn't tend to wear one of ourwatches.
They have dive computers.
I would say the Superautomaticis the one that is a really good
entry point because there islots of backstory to the model.
There's lots of interestingfacts about the model, the fact
that there's the cinematicreferences, the fact that there
are some interesting customersout there who wear them um, you
(58:22):
know people from the world ofmusic, the worlds of music and
movies, uh, wear them.
So it's a.
It's a.
It's an interesting entry pointto the brand and then you can
start discovering other things,maybe more niche models, like
some of the bronze models thatwe brought out yeah, yeah, I've
been going through the, thecollection, and I think, uh, I
(58:44):
mean, I love what you're doingwith the, not a scuff.
Blake Rea (58:45):
I think that would be where I would my entry door as
well.
Um, final question, becausewe're at the top of the hour,
I'm trying to help you keep yourschedule.
Angus McFadden (58:55):
Yeah, that's okay.
Blake Rea (58:58):
You know, obviously you don't want to make the same
mistakes that you know previousowners of the brand did.
So you know how are you goingto preserve this brand for the
future.
You know, like what steps areyou taking to make sure that
this brand continues forward, asopposed to just another
short-term run and I wouldn'tcall Alsta's first run
(59:22):
short-term by any means, but youknow what I mean.
Angus McFadden (59:24):
I know what you mean.
I know what you mean.
That was kind of you to say howyou're going to stop making
mistakes.
I mean, we're making mistakesall the time.
I make mistakes all the timeand I think learning from those
is something that continues.
That's important.
So, yeah, how am I going topreserve the brand?
I think a big mistake that lotsof small brands make is trying
(59:52):
to compete with the big brandswhen it comes to throwing so
much resource and so muchcapital at advertising and
social media and trying to keepup with the big brands, and I
think that that's a mistakebecause eventually you're just
going to run out of steam andrun out of money.
So not, so not not making themistake of throwing so much
(01:00:19):
money because we think we've gotto compete with Rolex or
Richard Mille or or Breitling.
You're never going to competewith these guys in terms of
their marketing spends, so don'ttry.
Do what you have to do, but Ithink putting more money into
making sure that yourproposition is improving your
(01:00:41):
customer base are delighted tobe part of the brand.
I think that that's how we'regoing to continue um, growing
the growing ulster and makingsure it's still here in another
80 years time.
Next year's our 80th anniversary, so we'll we'll do some special
things there.
We're talking at the momentabout doing a model for that
(01:01:04):
anniversary and maybe one or twobrand partnerships, so that's
exciting.
But we're not going to make themistake of throwing so much
money into marketing thatthere's nothing left for
improvement of the product andimprovement of the experience.
Blake Rea (01:01:26):
Wow, yeah, I can't wait to see what you guys do
next year.
Obviously, huge fan.
Thank you so much for spendingjust about an hour with us kind
of breaking down the brand,answering some of the questions
that I had.
Hopefully, you know, um, youknow also it comes to a wrist
near you, you know, for all thelisteners.
(01:01:46):
So, um, I, I can't, I can'twait to to get my first all
stuff and um, and we'll have tohave a chat about that at some
point later.
Angus McFadden (01:01:56):
So we will.
We will for sure.
Thank you for your kind words,and I'm also a huge fan of what
you're doing.
It's difficult to really carvea niche out in the space that
you're in and you're you'reknocking it out, so well done
thank you.
Blake Rea (01:02:08):
Thank you so much.
It means it means a lot.
We will see you on the next oneand we're definitely going to
stay in touch and everybodywe're going to link all stuff
below Definitely encourage youto go check them out.
They're definitely worthy, inmy opinion, of your money and if
you haven't seen one, you mightbe the first one in your friend
(01:02:29):
group to start the trend there.
Thank you so much, angus.
Appreciate your time.
Thank you, blake.
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