November 27, 2025 • 39 mins
Needing to use a cane or wheelchair can throw a person into an identity crisis because of the stigma they carry. Accepting the use of an aid can be a difficult transition and one that many people resist or reject even when an aid is important for their safety and independence.
This conversation delves into how our sense of self is impacted by our needs and how we can reframe our thinking on aids to get the most out of the technology available to us.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
If you suddenly have to use something that you can go,
that's not who I, that's not me,and that's not who I am, and
that's not part of the whole package.
There's something in the psychology of that that takes a
long time to kind of balance out.
Your idea of who you are maybe doesn't include a mobility aid.
(00:21):
Hello and welcome to Looking Up From Here, a podcast adventure
where Angelique, Laura and I explore the all-encompassing
experience of living with a disability.
In this podcast, we delve into how disability influences our
interactions with the world around us and how the world
responds to us. Along the way, we share our
(00:42):
personal journeys and open up about how our lives and
identities have been shaped by our reliance on wheelchairs for
mobility. Thank you for joining us and our
guests for these heartfelt and often humorous conversations
where we hope you'll gain a deeper understanding of what it
takes to navigate life on wheelsand maybe learn something about
(01:03):
just living your best life, no matter what challenges you're
facing. Hi, I'm your host, Samantha
Geary. I was diagnosed with multiple
sclerosis in my 20s and have lived with its ups and downs for
over 30 years, including many levels of disability, and I've
used a wheelchair full time since 2020.
(01:24):
Hi, I'm your host Laura Halsey. I live in West Cork in Ireland.
I was born with a condition called Spina Bifta and I have
been in a wheelchair for about 30 years.
Hi, I'm your host Angelique Lele.
I used to perform as an aerial artist and I fell while I was
training. I was paralyzed from the hips
down. I've been in a wheelchair since
(01:45):
2012. You can learn more about us on
our website lookingupfromhere.com.
Thanks for joining us today. So, Laura, tell the story about
your dad if you were willing to do it on record.
Let's throw them under the bus. Throw them under the bus.
(02:08):
Doesn't even have to be here. I know it's difficult.
You can't talk about your parents that way.
Let I'll. I'll put it this way.
I'll put it this way. We have a lot of friends, like a
lot of my friends are 5 to 10 years older than I am and I'm
almost 60. So that gives you like, I'm in a
sweet spot. We're all, we have three friends
right now, my husband included, who are all getting like some
kind of major surgery. And so we're just kind of at
(02:30):
that age, right? And then we still, some of us
still have parents that are thatmuch older.
And, and what we're seeing is, you know, this, these previously
healthy people having to contendwith disability partially for a
(02:53):
short period of time while they recover from a knee surgery or
whatever to, to sort of larger longer term things where they
can't do the things that they used to do because they're
either too dangerous or too painful or just can't do them
because things don't work. And they refuse to be graceful
(03:14):
about taking up the mobility devices or the adaptive devices
if it's hearing aids because it it doesn't fit with how they see
themselves. They see them like I'm this
person and I'm not disabled and therefore I will not use things
to solve for disability because that's for other people who are
(03:35):
disabled. And what I was saying is that
one of the most painful feelingsin when you are disabled and you
know it then like you've, you'vegone through your process of
accepting these things and, and you can feel grateful for those
things. And you, you've, you've got sort
(03:55):
of a partnership with those things.
And when people aren't in that and they don't see that, you
realize how fervently people reject being in the same
category as you. And that that feels like a
personal rejection from oftentimes people who love you
(04:19):
otherwise. But who will, without a shred of
irony, say things about mobilitydevices or hearing aids or
whatever that are, like, just stunning?
Because they're just saying, well, that might be you, but
that's not me. I think it's kind of like, I
(04:39):
always think it's I'm always amazed by the really impressive
PR job that has been done about ability aids.
Because if you flip it around, ability aids are the thing that
actually makes you seem less disabled than you are.
Right. And more graceful.
(05:02):
Way more graceful. Right.
Or you can you know, you like you're using hearing aid or
you're using a cane or you're using a whatever, But there has
been a sort of a societal PR jobdone about like it's like it's
signaling they signal sorrow to people or they signal failure to
(05:23):
people in a way that I think is really powerful.
Like I people I know who has surprised me that they feel that
way about it. It's like it seems to signal
lessening to them. And I find it really stunning
because I'm like, well, what a what a system we're in that this
(05:45):
PR job, you know, those adverts that used to be on the
television that they're really sad lighting and they're like
mobility aid is like over in thecorner in the darkness.
You know, I'm sure you guys haveversions of that in the US.
Yeah, you'd rather risk injury and whatever, like if you can't
(06:07):
see, for example, like what whatever that whatever happens
with like night blindness or, you know, color blindness or any
of those things. But then not being able to hear,
I mean, that there's a whole host of problems that come along
with that. And, and sometimes people just
(06:27):
nod and say, yes, my dad agrees to a lot of things that I say.
I'm just like, I'm just going totake advantage of that.
To start saying. But I, I just, I find it really
interesting that like, I'm like,that's the thing that you will
go out of your way not to do because you, because of it's and
(06:51):
it's, you know, this is going tosound bad, but it's an image
thing. But very much.
And that's not a judgement. Like I have a lot of things that
I don't do that I think of, oh, I'm not sure that will look, but
it is an image thing. You will find it easier with it.
With it, you will get around easier.
You will be able to do certain things that you couldn't do
(07:14):
before. So it is an image thing.
And I think to me, if you are willing to not leave the house
because you're afraid of how it looks, I mean, that is a
powerful projection that we havesomehow managed to do.
Like that's really massive to me.
I'm like, wow, what you're willing to give up just so it
(07:36):
doesn't look bad to other peopleor what you perceive as bad?
I I just find that stunning, A stunning PR job that I'm like.
We would rather, we would rathernot be seen not do then or be
then be seen as disabled, them being seen as less able than we
(07:58):
used to be. I'll, I'll tell you from my own.
Personal, but that's also sorry,go ahead.
No, no, go ahead, I'll. Tell you well, I just think it
has to do with like how age let's ageism as well, just like
what getting older looks like inthis society.
You know, people don't want to look like they're growing up or
(08:23):
growing older. I, I think it, it signals
something that people are afraidof in themselves and in showing
others. Yep.
Weakness. It's weakness.
And I'm sorry, but America, likenow more than ever, this idea of
being disabled means you're weak, which is, I is really kind
(08:45):
of funny, actually, you know, because we, we who are disabled,
know how much longer we are thatwe could ever have imagined for
sure. Yeah.
So. My friend, our friend, mutual
friend Manda that, you know, said to me the other day, she
said if the effort we put into things translated like, you
(09:06):
know, people that go to do like bodybuilding, like we imagine
the awards and medals that you all would have won, It's like
the effort you have to put your socks on or something in the
morning. It's like I really worked up a
sweat to do that. Like, yeah, it's there's an
irony to it. It's a huge irony to it, but but
(09:27):
you see, you only know that if you've been challenged in that
way. And so from the outside, the non
disabled community will look at that and just see weakness and
weakness is inexcusable a track and it's like people just cannot
(09:50):
cope with that. What I was going to say was I
had to kind of come to terms with with self-image at one
point, maybe 10 years ago now where I was on the board.
I served on the board of my university for 10 years and they
(10:15):
we had a new board member comingon to the board who had been a
friend of mine when I was in college, but who I hadn't seen
since we graduated or he graduated.
He was a year old, older than me, and he'd been very
successful, but I hadn't seen him since I was 20 years old.
(10:36):
And I was a little freaked out about seeing him again with no
context, no, his not having any sense of my story and then my
being in a wheelchair. Yeah.
I was actually really struck by my own struggle with with that
(11:02):
because for me, it was having toresolve the person I was at 20
and how I function in the world with the person I was at, let's
say 52, you know, and so much life had happened.
I don't know, I felt like I feltthat I made myself feel less
(11:27):
than like I had. My life hadn't worked out the
way I had expected and and I hadto, I had to cope with that.
As it turned out he was lovely and he couldn't care less so
didn't make any difference. So it was really all about me.
But it is. It was all inside me.
(11:50):
It is all of it because I mean, the amount of people who will
say to me All in all, I couldn't.
There was this like, I don't know if any of you ever watched
ER years ago, that TV program, it was this, it was this thing
in New York, one of the doctors and it had she walked with a
cane and she was in it for yearsand years and years and she
(12:12):
walked with cane. And I don't know what her why, I
can't remember the context. It was years old, but I remember
one, one episode of the program,she stopped walking with the
cane and she for whatever reason, wasn't walking with the
cane anymore. Some she'd had some procedure or
something, She didn't need it anymore and she walked into the
hospital without the cane and she just walked up the hallway
(12:34):
and not one person noticed that she no longer had the cane.
And the idea is that like, you are the one who cares, right?
Like the other people are not really the people who care.
Like they're thinking about themselves and whether you're
looking at them, looking at something else.
Like most people, they might cock something and say, oh, but
(12:56):
like they're not carrying it home with them.
You're carrying it home with you, you know, and, and, and so
when I see people limiting theirability because they don't want
to go out in front of people with that mobility aid, I'm
like, who's losing out here? And those people also just don't
(13:17):
care. They just do not care that much.
Like, but what you're really saying is like we care about how
the world sees us 100% and what we're but what we're seeing
really is we care about how we see us and that the world, how
does the world see us? Now we do know and we've talked
(13:38):
about the world isn't always kind.
The world does make all sorts ofassumptions.
There are a lot of, you know, variables out there, but in our
sort of closer end circle of people, let's say colleagues or,
you know, friends and family whatnot, not so much, you know,
people just still see you as youlike I told you I had several
(13:59):
friends when I was still like inthe cane using period, you know,
who would just sometimes say, you know, sometimes I forget
that you're disabled, you know, like, OK.
Like a few pounds on, a few pounds off.
Your friends still love you and care about you and could care
less. You know, like I, I was, you
(14:20):
were just talking about your friend coming to see you.
I have a friend who's coming to see me and, and I was just
getting so nervous. I was thinking I was like, gosh,
I weigh more than the last time he saw me.
And he's really used to me beingthis really skinny girl, you
know, like, and I was just this guy's like my brother, you know,
like, he was best friends with my brother.
(14:40):
Like what my brother? Told us about him.
Tell us. What's his name again?
His name's Pete. He's and I'm like, he does not
care what I look like, you know,unless I like really let myself
go. And then he'd be like, Angie, we
got to talk. Something's going on.
But or like I smelled really badand then he'd probably be like,
(15:03):
he needs to take a shower. Something, yeah.
But a couple pounds, you know, like I was just thinking like
who? He probably just told me to shut
up. In generally, we care a lot more
than other people do and we do, you know.
(15:23):
Society makes us that way. Yeah, 100%.
Particularly bad as women, although my dad, my dad had a
really hard time in it because my dad was this, you know, 220
lbs, six, almost 64, you know, bear of a man who was like
super, you know, macho tough guyand his acquiring disability
(15:51):
like is hard on him. You know, it was hard.
He, he felt that weakness. He felt like he couldn't fulfill
his role as protector. The idea that you and this isn't
like a, a simple thing, by the way, or a small thing.
That's what I'm like, I don't mean like, oh, nobody cares.
Like you shouldn't care about it.
(16:12):
Like obviously you care about it.
It's like, I think it's, it's really interesting to me what
your image of yourself is, because I think when you have to
go against that or what you think is outside of that, it's
really difficult to present yourself to people in a way that
you don't see yourself. Like if you suddenly have to use
(16:35):
something that you think, oh, that's not who I, that's not me
and that's not who I am. And that's not part of the whole
package. Like there's something in the
psychology of that that takes a long time to kind of balance
out, you know what I mean? Your idea of who you are maybe
doesn't include a mobility aid. Well, it doesn't and and that's
(16:58):
sort of interesting too in termsof like Laura, you may have your
sense of self developed alongside your disability.
And so you were able to integrate those ideas from a
young age where those of us who acquire disability on later in
life, we have to figure out how to how to rectify those, you
(17:23):
know, how to integrate those ideas over, you know, in
ourselves. Some people never do.
Some people, just as you said, like just can't do it.
And I think, you know, when we get to the idea of adaptability,
which is something we talked a lot about in the mind Body
solutions community, adaptability is, is so
(17:45):
fundamental. I, I think I've mentioned you
before that our General practitioner, he says, he
defines aging as the loss of adaptability.
And I think that, that, that really struck me and got me
really thinking about it, because I think adaptability
should be all of our goals that life throws things at us.
(18:06):
We change our bodies change our life circumstances changed.
Like our goal should fundamentally be to always be
adaptable, always being able to to say, OK, well, I used to be.
Well, for me, I used to be a dark, you know, black brunette
(18:27):
hair, right? And little by little, my Grays
come in. And now I have a lot of Gray.
And that's OK, You know, like that's OK now.
Now I'm. Yes.
It's yeah, it really suits me onyou.
Like I think it's so like I was talking about this with someone
recently because we were having a conversation learning about
(18:50):
the wheelchair and I was saying we don't give enough props to
children and how brilliant they are.
I think it was that I had not acquired any kind of idea about
what being in a wheelchair really meant or what people
would think about it or like, because I was like 8 years old.
(19:12):
And like, I think the further you are into adulthood, the more
baggage you have acquired. But what that means the people
will sink and and the older you get, change is harder.
It's harder to change as you getolder.
And so that's why children are so brilliant when you're
disabled because they're just like, what's the story with
that? You're just like, OK, like and
(19:35):
then they forget 2 minutes laterthey're like, OK, let's move on.
And you're like, OK, great. Like it just does not stick.
I don't think it has no place. And I think if only we could
kind of carry some of that into adulthood, it would be great.
Like it's this kind of notion of, of the kind of thoughts and
(19:56):
mindset you've acquired about something or, or you've
associated it with. Because I do think that a lot of
US people associate tragedy withthat, and that saddens me
because it's not always the way.I used to work and dance at a
with this group called young Dance and it's a dance company
dance school for like fully ablelike kids of all abilities.
(20:21):
So it was just so fantastic because right from the time
they're little, it's everybody always together.
So you would have kids who couldlike walk and run, do everything
with kids who were in wheelchairs with kids who were
have like we're having all kindsof different ability issues.
(20:43):
And so they learned and from a very young age to just all get
along with each other without having any guile.
Like with just this real openness and sense of no
judgement. Things were handle handled
within context of or are handledwithin the context of context of
(21:06):
the group in this really open minded and that's what I'm
looking for. Well, I'll just say non judge
mental again. I'll use that word again way.
I loved it, loved it. And when I was first there, I
thought for some I was like 1 kids are going to be OK with me
(21:29):
because I'm in a wheelchair and it was as if I I was almost
like, hello, do you not see me? Like they weren't, but they were
so great. Kids would just come up and ask
me to be their partner and I waslike, they want to partner with
me. It was really they were
fantastic out without fail. They were often amazing kids.
(21:54):
Or the very direct, like, you know, I've had kids just come up
and just very directly be like love.
It when they do that. I was in a store the other day
and this little kid, I think he must have been about 6 or
something and I don't always wear shoes on my feet and it's
like have like companies with myfeet and he just came up to me
anyway, why are you not wearing shoes?
(22:16):
My mom doesn't let me leave thathouse without shoes and I went
good question. She's a good mother in that one.
She's very good. And his mother was like, I'm
really sorry. And I was like, no, no, it's a
valid question. So that we were chatting about
that. Then he was like bye.
And I was like bye. And like we were like, they
just, they're either don't care or they're just very like ask
(22:38):
you straight and then they it's like move on.
And I'm. Right, Yeah, the move on part is
what's so, so brilliant about them, right.
Like, directly, Yeah, hundreds of kids in like, groceries.
Especially little. Boy, elevators.
Oh, they all. Boys are like Blazer.
Fascinations. How does you, how do you get
wheels like that and get to go out on your own?
(23:00):
Dad, can I have that? Right.
Oh, I've had I've had little kids who who can't wait to like,
I'll get out of my chair and they'll be like, can I get in
your can I use your chair? And I'm like, sure.
And then they're like, this is cool.
But you're right now. Do you think so?
Judgment like, like you say, I'll say it again.
(23:21):
But really, what it is, it is it's lack of judgement.
Like they just, it's also genuine curiosity, like just an
open heartedness to a variety ofexperience and that curiosity
and, and sort of a wonder about it, right?
Because you don't go in with anyother preconceived idea.
That's what it is. You're not like it's.
(23:42):
New. It's new and it's not weighted
down by. That must be something terrible
must have happened to you or youmust be this or you must be
that. They don't, they don't go in
with any of that. They're just like, what?
Why are you sitting down all thetime?
You're like, like, it's just it's very matter of fact.
You're like, OK, this is interesting.
(24:03):
It's. Really.
Quite as simple as those are wheels.
I want to be in them and I want to go fast, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a baggage thing, I think.
It's a baggage thing, all that baggage.
Yeah. I don't know how you help people
lose some of that baggage. We do podcast, we talk.
(24:25):
About it we talk about. It make you feel better about
it. You know, when I first, when I
first was in my wheelchair, that's when that show The Push
Girls came out and it was, you know, a reality show on MTV or
wherever it was. And it was, I can't even
remember how many. Just really beautiful.
(24:49):
They were being. Glamorous.
Yeah. And I was like, Oh my God.
It was exactly what I needed to see when I was first in my
wheelchair because I was like, this is what it could be.
You mean I could just I could just put on red lipstick, put
on, you know, jeans. And I mean, like, I wouldn't put
on jeans today, but because justbecause they wouldn't feel good
(25:11):
on my body. But you know, back then, they
just the way they, the way they carried themselves in public was
the thing I needed to see like who they were.
They were, they were very sure of themselves.
And they were like, yeah, I'm just a regular person out here
(25:33):
in the world. You know, I was.
So I didn't know at that point, like who was I supposed to be in
the world? I don't know how people are
going to treat me. I don't know how how this is
going to work, but when I saw them and this was, they were in
LA and they were just like heading out into nightclubs and
(25:56):
whatever, just, you know, being themselves.
I was like, OK, I get it, I can do that.
But it kind of. Goes to the thing of like, what
is it? The thing that I tried to do
now, and I don't always succeed at it is to say like it doesn't
say anything about you. Like it's not a right.
(26:20):
You know, I and I think that's the thing that people find
really complicated. It's like, and we all do it to
different groups of people, you know, like it's like you think
it says something about how people are and it really does
that. Because you.
I know enough people who are disabled to know that they all
have very different lives to me and very different attitudes to
(26:41):
things and very different this and that.
But it's like there's some sort of part of human brain that's
like subscribes you to something.
But it's what I think what it isis what's in yourself.
Like you bring it to, you bring,you bring to the table, it's
what you bring to this table. But it's like when.
(27:03):
You say and you saw them and yousaid, what am I supposed to be?
It's like you're not supposed tobe.
Anything you're supposed. To be.
You. You were.
Still you. And yeah, it's like you're
saying, like, do I have to change myself to be one of them?
And you're like, no, not really.Yeah, people don't.
People don't like, start wearingglasses and think who am I
(27:25):
supposed to be in glasses? Like now I should be ashamed
People wear glasses, you know? I guess a lot of people wear
contacts because they don't wantto wear glasses.
But, you know, still, eyeglassesare pretty ubiquitous and people
are pretty comfortable wearing them.
So there are even people now wear glasses as a fashion thing,
(27:47):
even if they don't need glasses or just like no prescription,
which I think is funny. I think I can, I think I can
wrangle up a few people who would love using my chair even
if they didn't need to because it's pretty great.
You know, it's pretty great. Yeah, yeah, yours is.
About people when I was young, especially like when I was a
teenager, who would be like, youknow, people that I know very
(28:12):
well now like that people that Idon't know well, but would be
like, Laura, get up there. I need, I need a rest.
Get up. I'd be like, I know.
And they were like, Laura, you've been sitting down a long
time. Get up.
I've been standing for them. I'm sorry.
No, no, I need a break door. Like, I know, sorry.
(28:32):
Yeah, interesting to watch people when I'm not in my chair.
Like let's say I'm in bed or I'min a chair in my living room and
my wheelchair is open, so it is a chair.
It's interesting to see who feels comfortable sitting in it
and who. Does I know?
Yeah, it is. I have to invite people to sit
(28:52):
in my chair. And a lot of people are like,
no, it's OK. And I'm like, no, it's really
comfortable. It's got.
To look at it as well, I don't know, do you feel this way?
But when I'm like sitting in bedor something, I kind of, it's
very different to see it occupied in space than when
you're in it. Interesting.
(29:15):
Right when it's sort of off and.Over there.
Right over there versus seeing or something.
But I'm always intrigued. I use it as this sort of litmus.
I become very cognizant of it, of food just comes in
particularly like I've had timeswhere I've, I've had long
periods of time where I've had to be in bed.
And so my chair is next to the bed and it's the only place to
(29:38):
sit. If you're going to visit me,
like you either sit in bed with me or you sit in my chair.
Those are your only. Options, and there's nowhere
else to go. And it's so interesting to see,
like in my old house, there was a sort of a couch, but it was
quite a bit further away from me.
A lot of people would go sit on the couch rather than sit in my
(29:58):
chair to be next to me, you know, and that I could just, I
and just watching, I'd say, why don't you have a seat?
And this immediate sense of discomfort would come over
certain people like. I do think I do kind of feel
like as if it was. Contagious.
No, I don't think it's that. I think it seems invasive.
(30:21):
I wonder, I wonder cuz it's cuz it's at like our legs.
It's like sitting in our legs. I don't know, I.
Think that seems intimate or something.
I Yeah. I do see that point, but I also
started to see people would be like.
I think it'd be a little freaky for them.
I think they were like, this is very intimate, like, should I
not be doing this? You're like.
Yeah, but that tells me something.
(30:42):
You know, there are people who just think of, it's just a place
to sit down, right? And then there are people who I
feel like they think that somehow it's contagious, like if
they sit in the chair, the chairwill suck them in and they'll
never get out of it well. And I think it's more and more
like the seems like overly intimate or something like.
(31:05):
I've been told three of those things, actually.
Probably. I think there is a super
discomfort with the chair in particular and.
And the chair has a really poor PR system.
I'm really, I'm dedicating a lotof my life and this point on to
giving it a new PR. It's like they used to say about
(31:28):
squirrels, that squirrels are rats with good PR, right?
I don't think they get very good.
PR better than. Rats.
They just rats better than rats and so.
Some of them are kind of mean. Yeah, right.
City squirrels. But I think they don't have as
bad pure as like squirrels really bad pure Angie.
(31:48):
I think they must be. Florida squirrels, they do.
Florida squirrels are like. Florida Squirrels.
It might be. I think I'm like, seriously
guys, it's do you know how how easier your life will be getting
around? Yeah.
Yeah, that was one of the brilliant things I did for my
(32:10):
mom is I finally convinced her to use this.
It's called Wheel on WHILL is the is the manufacturer and
their chairs are brilliantly designed and they're very cool
looking. And so I got her one.
And once I convinced her that this would make her life easier,
she started using it. And she's temporarily in an
(32:34):
assisted living place where she recovers from her injuries.
And everybody there is like, where did you get that chair?
That's the coolest thing I ever saw.
You know, like, people love it. And, and that's made her feel
better about being in it becausethe chair itself has
personality, right? It has some style.
And that's the, you know, the conversation that we need to
(32:56):
have at some point that just about, you know what Glorious.
There's a company here, I can't remember the name, but they make
them for young people and they make them very cool.
I think they're, like, designed to make them more sort of
attractive to young kids that don't have to use a chair.
And they do. They do look very cool.
Yeah. There was the spoke covers you
(33:17):
mean like that go on the no one like covering the wheels of the.
Chair where the the wheels or you know when they have yeah the
spoke covers spoke covers slidesand like they are very or like
the center part is like all colored as well yeah.
They're called spoke covers, andso you can get one.
There was a woman, there's a woman who makes them called
(33:39):
Rolling Diva. And I had them on mine and I got
the, it looked like snakeskin and I like gold snakeskin.
And I had that on the inside. Yeah, it looked super cool.
So then I got tired. I mean, that was like 12 years
ago, 13 years ago, and then I got tired of having it inside
(34:01):
there. But I still have them in case I
want to pop them in again. It's fancy.
And then they make all differentkinds.
When I used my cane, I had a collection of canes and I had
and they were beautiful. You know, they were hand carved
and one of them had, was had this beautiful silver horse
(34:23):
head, which is what I held onto and it was just gorgeous and was
black. And it just went with when I was
still working full time, I went with all my suits and things and
I had AI had a a sword or a canethat had a sword in it and I had
a cane that had a flask in it. And like I made it fun.
(34:43):
Like I considered them fashion accessories and they would go
with my outfits and they were beautiful and they were worth
commenting on because, you know,so and I don't understand why
wheelchairs aren't like that too.
I think they're starting, we're starting to see that, but like
the chair that the woman's in inthe Wicked movie is beautiful.
(35:04):
Like why can't all why can't they be like, even if you go
back to like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, his wheelchair was
beautiful and it was just literally like a wooden chair.
It I know, but it was a wooden chair that had wheels on it.
But I think all you need is a good looking chair with wheels.
(35:25):
You know, we can make this work better than it is now.
How come nobody's invested in this?
Yeah, I think. Well, I think that.
Oh, sorry, go ahead. No go on Angelique.
Well, it just every time I see abeautiful chair, I feel like
it's in Europe somewhere. And the and the one place that
used to make cool looking chairscolors, I thought they were cool
(35:46):
looking and that went out of business.
And I don't know like any in thestates that are making cool
looking chairs right now, but I see like a cool carbon fiber
ones or electric. Chairs are some new ones.
There's some new ones out. Andy I.
There are some new ones. The only thing that gets me
(36:06):
though is like, I think there there does have to be kind of
the idea of like you can have a practical aid that you don't
have to make look as ugly as they make them look.
Like ugly. Oh.
My gosh. My God, yes.
It's like they got out. Of their way.
To make them ugly and then charge tons of money for them.
(36:29):
Yes. So depressing.
Like so hospital like depressing.
Oh. Yeah, grey, grey and.
Aluminum. The one I think about is like,
and people can correct me if this is out of turn or wrong,
but like I have a lot of friendswho had kids and that thing that
were when you were expressing breast milk, it was like, why
(36:50):
does it make that sound like you're a fire animal or
something? I don't understand.
You know, it's not the time whenyou feel the most attractive
about yourself, but it's like itmakes the fire animal noise.
I don't understand what's happening here.
Like it's like, guys, you know, you could just help people to
feel better about them a little bit.
It's all I'm saying, you know what I mean.
(37:12):
I do feel like this new generation is demanding more
like that and I'm starting to see it.
I'm starting to see. A little bit of I had it about
my shower chair, like I did not want to get a shower chair
because I was like, it's a hospital.
Chair, right. And I was had a real association
with like the hospital about it and I was like, and I had to
(37:37):
just get over that. But like a lot of them don't
have to look as on it like as kind of medical equipment like
as they do. I think, you know, it's like you
could just make it a little, youknow, because especially if
people have to live with the thing all the time.
Right, it sits in the shower. And.
People come into your bathroom so other people are going to see
(37:59):
it. Does it have to look so
utilitarian? Could it be a little fancier?
I mean, it's plastic and metal. Can't.
Can we work with it a little bit?
OK, before we go, we want to tell you about a very special
organization that brought the three of us together five years
ago. It's called Mind Body Solutions.
They offer live online adaptive yoga classes, a YouTube library,
(38:23):
unique student only gathering spaces, and special live events
hosted by founder Matthew Sanford.
There's no fee to participate and no yoga experience required.
At MBS, you can connect with others who have disabilities and
reconnect with yourself. That's their mission, to help
people live more vibrantly and more connected, both in mind and
(38:44):
body. MBS has helped each of us
discover new ways to live, work,move, and simply be in the
bodies we have. And they can help you too.
So if you're listening and living with a disability or know
someone who is, check out their website at
mindbodysolutions.org. It's free.
(39:05):
It's hopeful and there's room for everybody.
Thatsmindbodysolutions.org. You can also connect with them
through our Looking up fromhere.com resources web page.
Thank you.
If you suddenly have to use something that you can go,
that's not who I, that's not me,and that's not who I am, and
that's not part of the whole package.
There's something in the psychology of that that takes a
long time to kind of balance out.
Your idea of who you are maybe doesn't include a mobility aid.
(00:21):
Hello and welcome to Looking Up From Here, a podcast adventure
where Angelique, Laura and I explore the all-encompassing
experience of living with a disability.
In this podcast, we delve into how disability influences our
interactions with the world around us and how the world
responds to us. Along the way, we share our
(00:42):
personal journeys and open up about how our lives and
identities have been shaped by our reliance on wheelchairs for
mobility. Thank you for joining us and our
guests for these heartfelt and often humorous conversations
where we hope you'll gain a deeper understanding of what it
takes to navigate life on wheelsand maybe learn something about
(01:03):
just living your best life, no matter what challenges you're
facing. Hi, I'm your host, Samantha
Geary. I was diagnosed with multiple
sclerosis in my 20s and have lived with its ups and downs for
over 30 years, including many levels of disability, and I've
used a wheelchair full time since 2020.
(01:24):
Hi, I'm your host Laura Halsey. I live in West Cork in Ireland.
I was born with a condition called Spina Bifta and I have
been in a wheelchair for about 30 years.
Hi, I'm your host Angelique Lele.
I used to perform as an aerial artist and I fell while I was
training. I was paralyzed from the hips
down. I've been in a wheelchair since
(01:45):
2012. You can learn more about us on
our website lookingupfromhere.com.
Thanks for joining us today. So, Laura, tell the story about
your dad if you were willing to do it on record.
Let's throw them under the bus. Throw them under the bus.
(02:08):
Doesn't even have to be here. I know it's difficult.
You can't talk about your parents that way.
Let I'll. I'll put it this way.
I'll put it this way. We have a lot of friends, like a
lot of my friends are 5 to 10 years older than I am and I'm
almost 60. So that gives you like, I'm in a
sweet spot. We're all, we have three friends
right now, my husband included, who are all getting like some
kind of major surgery. And so we're just kind of at
(02:30):
that age, right? And then we still, some of us
still have parents that are thatmuch older.
And, and what we're seeing is, you know, this, these previously
healthy people having to contendwith disability partially for a
(02:53):
short period of time while they recover from a knee surgery or
whatever to, to sort of larger longer term things where they
can't do the things that they used to do because they're
either too dangerous or too painful or just can't do them
because things don't work. And they refuse to be graceful
(03:14):
about taking up the mobility devices or the adaptive devices
if it's hearing aids because it it doesn't fit with how they see
themselves. They see them like I'm this
person and I'm not disabled and therefore I will not use things
to solve for disability because that's for other people who are
(03:35):
disabled. And what I was saying is that
one of the most painful feelingsin when you are disabled and you
know it then like you've, you'vegone through your process of
accepting these things and, and you can feel grateful for those
things. And you, you've, you've got sort
(03:55):
of a partnership with those things.
And when people aren't in that and they don't see that, you
realize how fervently people reject being in the same
category as you. And that that feels like a
personal rejection from oftentimes people who love you
(04:19):
otherwise. But who will, without a shred of
irony, say things about mobilitydevices or hearing aids or
whatever that are, like, just stunning?
Because they're just saying, well, that might be you, but
that's not me. I think it's kind of like, I
(04:39):
always think it's I'm always amazed by the really impressive
PR job that has been done about ability aids.
Because if you flip it around, ability aids are the thing that
actually makes you seem less disabled than you are.
Right. And more graceful.
(05:02):
Way more graceful. Right.
Or you can you know, you like you're using hearing aid or
you're using a cane or you're using a whatever, But there has
been a sort of a societal PR jobdone about like it's like it's
signaling they signal sorrow to people or they signal failure to
(05:23):
people in a way that I think is really powerful.
Like I people I know who has surprised me that they feel that
way about it. It's like it seems to signal
lessening to them. And I find it really stunning
because I'm like, well, what a what a system we're in that this
(05:45):
PR job, you know, those adverts that used to be on the
television that they're really sad lighting and they're like
mobility aid is like over in thecorner in the darkness.
You know, I'm sure you guys haveversions of that in the US.
Yeah, you'd rather risk injury and whatever, like if you can't
(06:07):
see, for example, like what whatever that whatever happens
with like night blindness or, you know, color blindness or any
of those things. But then not being able to hear,
I mean, that there's a whole host of problems that come along
with that. And, and sometimes people just
(06:27):
nod and say, yes, my dad agrees to a lot of things that I say.
I'm just like, I'm just going totake advantage of that.
To start saying. But I, I just, I find it really
interesting that like, I'm like,that's the thing that you will
go out of your way not to do because you, because of it's and
(06:51):
it's, you know, this is going tosound bad, but it's an image
thing. But very much.
And that's not a judgement. Like I have a lot of things that
I don't do that I think of, oh, I'm not sure that will look, but
it is an image thing. You will find it easier with it.
With it, you will get around easier.
You will be able to do certain things that you couldn't do
(07:14):
before. So it is an image thing.
And I think to me, if you are willing to not leave the house
because you're afraid of how it looks, I mean, that is a
powerful projection that we havesomehow managed to do.
Like that's really massive to me.
I'm like, wow, what you're willing to give up just so it
(07:36):
doesn't look bad to other peopleor what you perceive as bad?
I I just find that stunning, A stunning PR job that I'm like.
We would rather, we would rathernot be seen not do then or be
then be seen as disabled, them being seen as less able than we
(07:58):
used to be. I'll, I'll tell you from my own.
Personal, but that's also sorry,go ahead.
No, no, go ahead, I'll. Tell you well, I just think it
has to do with like how age let's ageism as well, just like
what getting older looks like inthis society.
You know, people don't want to look like they're growing up or
(08:23):
growing older. I, I think it, it signals
something that people are afraidof in themselves and in showing
others. Yep.
Weakness. It's weakness.
And I'm sorry, but America, likenow more than ever, this idea of
being disabled means you're weak, which is, I is really kind
(08:45):
of funny, actually, you know, because we, we who are disabled,
know how much longer we are thatwe could ever have imagined for
sure. Yeah.
So. My friend, our friend, mutual
friend Manda that, you know, said to me the other day, she
said if the effort we put into things translated like, you
(09:06):
know, people that go to do like bodybuilding, like we imagine
the awards and medals that you all would have won, It's like
the effort you have to put your socks on or something in the
morning. It's like I really worked up a
sweat to do that. Like, yeah, it's there's an
irony to it. It's a huge irony to it, but but
(09:27):
you see, you only know that if you've been challenged in that
way. And so from the outside, the non
disabled community will look at that and just see weakness and
weakness is inexcusable a track and it's like people just cannot
(09:50):
cope with that. What I was going to say was I
had to kind of come to terms with with self-image at one
point, maybe 10 years ago now where I was on the board.
I served on the board of my university for 10 years and they
(10:15):
we had a new board member comingon to the board who had been a
friend of mine when I was in college, but who I hadn't seen
since we graduated or he graduated.
He was a year old, older than me, and he'd been very
successful, but I hadn't seen him since I was 20 years old.
(10:36):
And I was a little freaked out about seeing him again with no
context, no, his not having any sense of my story and then my
being in a wheelchair. Yeah.
I was actually really struck by my own struggle with with that
(11:02):
because for me, it was having toresolve the person I was at 20
and how I function in the world with the person I was at, let's
say 52, you know, and so much life had happened.
I don't know, I felt like I feltthat I made myself feel less
(11:27):
than like I had. My life hadn't worked out the
way I had expected and and I hadto, I had to cope with that.
As it turned out he was lovely and he couldn't care less so
didn't make any difference. So it was really all about me.
But it is. It was all inside me.
(11:50):
It is all of it because I mean, the amount of people who will
say to me All in all, I couldn't.
There was this like, I don't know if any of you ever watched
ER years ago, that TV program, it was this, it was this thing
in New York, one of the doctors and it had she walked with a
cane and she was in it for yearsand years and years and she
(12:12):
walked with cane. And I don't know what her why, I
can't remember the context. It was years old, but I remember
one, one episode of the program,she stopped walking with the
cane and she for whatever reason, wasn't walking with the
cane anymore. Some she'd had some procedure or
something, She didn't need it anymore and she walked into the
hospital without the cane and she just walked up the hallway
(12:34):
and not one person noticed that she no longer had the cane.
And the idea is that like, you are the one who cares, right?
Like the other people are not really the people who care.
Like they're thinking about themselves and whether you're
looking at them, looking at something else.
Like most people, they might cock something and say, oh, but
(12:56):
like they're not carrying it home with them.
You're carrying it home with you, you know, and, and, and so
when I see people limiting theirability because they don't want
to go out in front of people with that mobility aid, I'm
like, who's losing out here? And those people also just don't
(13:17):
care. They just do not care that much.
Like, but what you're really saying is like we care about how
the world sees us 100% and what we're but what we're seeing
really is we care about how we see us and that the world, how
does the world see us? Now we do know and we've talked
(13:38):
about the world isn't always kind.
The world does make all sorts ofassumptions.
There are a lot of, you know, variables out there, but in our
sort of closer end circle of people, let's say colleagues or,
you know, friends and family whatnot, not so much, you know,
people just still see you as youlike I told you I had several
(13:59):
friends when I was still like inthe cane using period, you know,
who would just sometimes say, you know, sometimes I forget
that you're disabled, you know, like, OK.
Like a few pounds on, a few pounds off.
Your friends still love you and care about you and could care
less. You know, like I, I was, you
(14:20):
were just talking about your friend coming to see you.
I have a friend who's coming to see me and, and I was just
getting so nervous. I was thinking I was like, gosh,
I weigh more than the last time he saw me.
And he's really used to me beingthis really skinny girl, you
know, like, and I was just this guy's like my brother, you know,
like, he was best friends with my brother.
(14:40):
Like what my brother? Told us about him.
Tell us. What's his name again?
His name's Pete. He's and I'm like, he does not
care what I look like, you know,unless I like really let myself
go. And then he'd be like, Angie, we
got to talk. Something's going on.
But or like I smelled really badand then he'd probably be like,
(15:03):
he needs to take a shower. Something, yeah.
But a couple pounds, you know, like I was just thinking like
who? He probably just told me to shut
up. In generally, we care a lot more
than other people do and we do, you know.
(15:23):
Society makes us that way. Yeah, 100%.
Particularly bad as women, although my dad, my dad had a
really hard time in it because my dad was this, you know, 220
lbs, six, almost 64, you know, bear of a man who was like
super, you know, macho tough guyand his acquiring disability
(15:51):
like is hard on him. You know, it was hard.
He, he felt that weakness. He felt like he couldn't fulfill
his role as protector. The idea that you and this isn't
like a, a simple thing, by the way, or a small thing.
That's what I'm like, I don't mean like, oh, nobody cares.
Like you shouldn't care about it.
(16:12):
Like obviously you care about it.
It's like, I think it's, it's really interesting to me what
your image of yourself is, because I think when you have to
go against that or what you think is outside of that, it's
really difficult to present yourself to people in a way that
you don't see yourself. Like if you suddenly have to use
(16:35):
something that you think, oh, that's not who I, that's not me
and that's not who I am. And that's not part of the whole
package. Like there's something in the
psychology of that that takes a long time to kind of balance
out, you know what I mean? Your idea of who you are maybe
doesn't include a mobility aid. Well, it doesn't and and that's
(16:58):
sort of interesting too in termsof like Laura, you may have your
sense of self developed alongside your disability.
And so you were able to integrate those ideas from a
young age where those of us who acquire disability on later in
life, we have to figure out how to how to rectify those, you
(17:23):
know, how to integrate those ideas over, you know, in
ourselves. Some people never do.
Some people, just as you said, like just can't do it.
And I think, you know, when we get to the idea of adaptability,
which is something we talked a lot about in the mind Body
solutions community, adaptability is, is so
(17:45):
fundamental. I, I think I've mentioned you
before that our General practitioner, he says, he
defines aging as the loss of adaptability.
And I think that, that, that really struck me and got me
really thinking about it, because I think adaptability
should be all of our goals that life throws things at us.
(18:06):
We change our bodies change our life circumstances changed.
Like our goal should fundamentally be to always be
adaptable, always being able to to say, OK, well, I used to be.
Well, for me, I used to be a dark, you know, black brunette
(18:27):
hair, right? And little by little, my Grays
come in. And now I have a lot of Gray.
And that's OK, You know, like that's OK now.
Now I'm. Yes.
It's yeah, it really suits me onyou.
Like I think it's so like I was talking about this with someone
recently because we were having a conversation learning about
(18:50):
the wheelchair and I was saying we don't give enough props to
children and how brilliant they are.
I think it was that I had not acquired any kind of idea about
what being in a wheelchair really meant or what people
would think about it or like, because I was like 8 years old.
(19:12):
And like, I think the further you are into adulthood, the more
baggage you have acquired. But what that means the people
will sink and and the older you get, change is harder.
It's harder to change as you getolder.
And so that's why children are so brilliant when you're
disabled because they're just like, what's the story with
that? You're just like, OK, like and
(19:35):
then they forget 2 minutes laterthey're like, OK, let's move on.
And you're like, OK, great. Like it just does not stick.
I don't think it has no place. And I think if only we could
kind of carry some of that into adulthood, it would be great.
Like it's this kind of notion of, of the kind of thoughts and
(19:56):
mindset you've acquired about something or, or you've
associated it with. Because I do think that a lot of
US people associate tragedy withthat, and that saddens me
because it's not always the way.I used to work and dance at a
with this group called young Dance and it's a dance company
dance school for like fully ablelike kids of all abilities.
(20:21):
So it was just so fantastic because right from the time
they're little, it's everybody always together.
So you would have kids who couldlike walk and run, do everything
with kids who were in wheelchairs with kids who were
have like we're having all kindsof different ability issues.
(20:43):
And so they learned and from a very young age to just all get
along with each other without having any guile.
Like with just this real openness and sense of no
judgement. Things were handle handled
within context of or are handledwithin the context of context of
(21:06):
the group in this really open minded and that's what I'm
looking for. Well, I'll just say non judge
mental again. I'll use that word again way.
I loved it, loved it. And when I was first there, I
thought for some I was like 1 kids are going to be OK with me
(21:29):
because I'm in a wheelchair and it was as if I I was almost
like, hello, do you not see me? Like they weren't, but they were
so great. Kids would just come up and ask
me to be their partner and I waslike, they want to partner with
me. It was really they were
fantastic out without fail. They were often amazing kids.
(21:54):
Or the very direct, like, you know, I've had kids just come up
and just very directly be like love.
It when they do that. I was in a store the other day
and this little kid, I think he must have been about 6 or
something and I don't always wear shoes on my feet and it's
like have like companies with myfeet and he just came up to me
anyway, why are you not wearing shoes?
(22:16):
My mom doesn't let me leave thathouse without shoes and I went
good question. She's a good mother in that one.
She's very good. And his mother was like, I'm
really sorry. And I was like, no, no, it's a
valid question. So that we were chatting about
that. Then he was like bye.
And I was like bye. And like we were like, they
just, they're either don't care or they're just very like ask
(22:38):
you straight and then they it's like move on.
And I'm. Right, Yeah, the move on part is
what's so, so brilliant about them, right.
Like, directly, Yeah, hundreds of kids in like, groceries.
Especially little. Boy, elevators.
Oh, they all. Boys are like Blazer.
Fascinations. How does you, how do you get
wheels like that and get to go out on your own?
(23:00):
Dad, can I have that? Right.
Oh, I've had I've had little kids who who can't wait to like,
I'll get out of my chair and they'll be like, can I get in
your can I use your chair? And I'm like, sure.
And then they're like, this is cool.
But you're right now. Do you think so?
Judgment like, like you say, I'll say it again.
(23:21):
But really, what it is, it is it's lack of judgement.
Like they just, it's also genuine curiosity, like just an
open heartedness to a variety ofexperience and that curiosity
and, and sort of a wonder about it, right?
Because you don't go in with anyother preconceived idea.
That's what it is. You're not like it's.
(23:42):
New. It's new and it's not weighted
down by. That must be something terrible
must have happened to you or youmust be this or you must be
that. They don't, they don't go in
with any of that. They're just like, what?
Why are you sitting down all thetime?
You're like, like, it's just it's very matter of fact.
You're like, OK, this is interesting.
(24:03):
It's. Really.
Quite as simple as those are wheels.
I want to be in them and I want to go fast, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a baggage thing, I think.
It's a baggage thing, all that baggage.
Yeah. I don't know how you help people
lose some of that baggage. We do podcast, we talk.
(24:25):
About it we talk about. It make you feel better about
it. You know, when I first, when I
first was in my wheelchair, that's when that show The Push
Girls came out and it was, you know, a reality show on MTV or
wherever it was. And it was, I can't even
remember how many. Just really beautiful.
(24:49):
They were being. Glamorous.
Yeah. And I was like, Oh my God.
It was exactly what I needed to see when I was first in my
wheelchair because I was like, this is what it could be.
You mean I could just I could just put on red lipstick, put
on, you know, jeans. And I mean, like, I wouldn't put
on jeans today, but because justbecause they wouldn't feel good
(25:11):
on my body. But you know, back then, they
just the way they, the way they carried themselves in public was
the thing I needed to see like who they were.
They were, they were very sure of themselves.
And they were like, yeah, I'm just a regular person out here
(25:33):
in the world. You know, I was.
So I didn't know at that point, like who was I supposed to be in
the world? I don't know how people are
going to treat me. I don't know how how this is
going to work, but when I saw them and this was, they were in
LA and they were just like heading out into nightclubs and
(25:56):
whatever, just, you know, being themselves.
I was like, OK, I get it, I can do that.
But it kind of. Goes to the thing of like, what
is it? The thing that I tried to do
now, and I don't always succeed at it is to say like it doesn't
say anything about you. Like it's not a right.
(26:20):
You know, I and I think that's the thing that people find
really complicated. It's like, and we all do it to
different groups of people, you know, like it's like you think
it says something about how people are and it really does
that. Because you.
I know enough people who are disabled to know that they all
have very different lives to me and very different attitudes to
(26:41):
things and very different this and that.
But it's like there's some sort of part of human brain that's
like subscribes you to something.
But it's what I think what it isis what's in yourself.
Like you bring it to, you bring,you bring to the table, it's
what you bring to this table. But it's like when.
(27:03):
You say and you saw them and yousaid, what am I supposed to be?
It's like you're not supposed tobe.
Anything you're supposed. To be.
You. You were.
Still you. And yeah, it's like you're
saying, like, do I have to change myself to be one of them?
And you're like, no, not really.Yeah, people don't.
People don't like, start wearingglasses and think who am I
(27:25):
supposed to be in glasses? Like now I should be ashamed
People wear glasses, you know? I guess a lot of people wear
contacts because they don't wantto wear glasses.
But, you know, still, eyeglassesare pretty ubiquitous and people
are pretty comfortable wearing them.
So there are even people now wear glasses as a fashion thing,
(27:47):
even if they don't need glasses or just like no prescription,
which I think is funny. I think I can, I think I can
wrangle up a few people who would love using my chair even
if they didn't need to because it's pretty great.
You know, it's pretty great. Yeah, yeah, yours is.
About people when I was young, especially like when I was a
teenager, who would be like, youknow, people that I know very
(28:12):
well now like that people that Idon't know well, but would be
like, Laura, get up there. I need, I need a rest.
Get up. I'd be like, I know.
And they were like, Laura, you've been sitting down a long
time. Get up.
I've been standing for them. I'm sorry.
No, no, I need a break door. Like, I know, sorry.
(28:32):
Yeah, interesting to watch people when I'm not in my chair.
Like let's say I'm in bed or I'min a chair in my living room and
my wheelchair is open, so it is a chair.
It's interesting to see who feels comfortable sitting in it
and who. Does I know?
Yeah, it is. I have to invite people to sit
(28:52):
in my chair. And a lot of people are like,
no, it's OK. And I'm like, no, it's really
comfortable. It's got.
To look at it as well, I don't know, do you feel this way?
But when I'm like sitting in bedor something, I kind of, it's
very different to see it occupied in space than when
you're in it. Interesting.
(29:15):
Right when it's sort of off and.Over there.
Right over there versus seeing or something.
But I'm always intrigued. I use it as this sort of litmus.
I become very cognizant of it, of food just comes in
particularly like I've had timeswhere I've, I've had long
periods of time where I've had to be in bed.
And so my chair is next to the bed and it's the only place to
(29:38):
sit. If you're going to visit me,
like you either sit in bed with me or you sit in my chair.
Those are your only. Options, and there's nowhere
else to go. And it's so interesting to see,
like in my old house, there was a sort of a couch, but it was
quite a bit further away from me.
A lot of people would go sit on the couch rather than sit in my
(29:58):
chair to be next to me, you know, and that I could just, I
and just watching, I'd say, why don't you have a seat?
And this immediate sense of discomfort would come over
certain people like. I do think I do kind of feel
like as if it was. Contagious.
No, I don't think it's that. I think it seems invasive.
(30:21):
I wonder, I wonder cuz it's cuz it's at like our legs.
It's like sitting in our legs. I don't know, I.
Think that seems intimate or something.
I Yeah. I do see that point, but I also
started to see people would be like.
I think it'd be a little freaky for them.
I think they were like, this is very intimate, like, should I
not be doing this? You're like.
Yeah, but that tells me something.
(30:42):
You know, there are people who just think of, it's just a place
to sit down, right? And then there are people who I
feel like they think that somehow it's contagious, like if
they sit in the chair, the chairwill suck them in and they'll
never get out of it well. And I think it's more and more
like the seems like overly intimate or something like.
(31:05):
I've been told three of those things, actually.
Probably. I think there is a super
discomfort with the chair in particular and.
And the chair has a really poor PR system.
I'm really, I'm dedicating a lotof my life and this point on to
giving it a new PR. It's like they used to say about
(31:28):
squirrels, that squirrels are rats with good PR, right?
I don't think they get very good.
PR better than. Rats.
They just rats better than rats and so.
Some of them are kind of mean. Yeah, right.
City squirrels. But I think they don't have as
bad pure as like squirrels really bad pure Angie.
(31:48):
I think they must be. Florida squirrels, they do.
Florida squirrels are like. Florida Squirrels.
It might be. I think I'm like, seriously
guys, it's do you know how how easier your life will be getting
around? Yeah.
Yeah, that was one of the brilliant things I did for my
(32:10):
mom is I finally convinced her to use this.
It's called Wheel on WHILL is the is the manufacturer and
their chairs are brilliantly designed and they're very cool
looking. And so I got her one.
And once I convinced her that this would make her life easier,
she started using it. And she's temporarily in an
(32:34):
assisted living place where she recovers from her injuries.
And everybody there is like, where did you get that chair?
That's the coolest thing I ever saw.
You know, like, people love it. And, and that's made her feel
better about being in it becausethe chair itself has
personality, right? It has some style.
And that's the, you know, the conversation that we need to
(32:56):
have at some point that just about, you know what Glorious.
There's a company here, I can't remember the name, but they make
them for young people and they make them very cool.
I think they're, like, designed to make them more sort of
attractive to young kids that don't have to use a chair.
And they do. They do look very cool.
Yeah. There was the spoke covers you
(33:17):
mean like that go on the no one like covering the wheels of the.
Chair where the the wheels or you know when they have yeah the
spoke covers spoke covers slidesand like they are very or like
the center part is like all colored as well yeah.
They're called spoke covers, andso you can get one.
There was a woman, there's a woman who makes them called
(33:39):
Rolling Diva. And I had them on mine and I got
the, it looked like snakeskin and I like gold snakeskin.
And I had that on the inside. Yeah, it looked super cool.
So then I got tired. I mean, that was like 12 years
ago, 13 years ago, and then I got tired of having it inside
(34:01):
there. But I still have them in case I
want to pop them in again. It's fancy.
And then they make all differentkinds.
When I used my cane, I had a collection of canes and I had
and they were beautiful. You know, they were hand carved
and one of them had, was had this beautiful silver horse
(34:23):
head, which is what I held onto and it was just gorgeous and was
black. And it just went with when I was
still working full time, I went with all my suits and things and
I had AI had a a sword or a canethat had a sword in it and I had
a cane that had a flask in it. And like I made it fun.
(34:43):
Like I considered them fashion accessories and they would go
with my outfits and they were beautiful and they were worth
commenting on because, you know,so and I don't understand why
wheelchairs aren't like that too.
I think they're starting, we're starting to see that, but like
the chair that the woman's in inthe Wicked movie is beautiful.
(35:04):
Like why can't all why can't they be like, even if you go
back to like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, his wheelchair was
beautiful and it was just literally like a wooden chair.
It I know, but it was a wooden chair that had wheels on it.
But I think all you need is a good looking chair with wheels.
(35:25):
You know, we can make this work better than it is now.
How come nobody's invested in this?
Yeah, I think. Well, I think that.
Oh, sorry, go ahead. No go on Angelique.
Well, it just every time I see abeautiful chair, I feel like
it's in Europe somewhere. And the and the one place that
used to make cool looking chairscolors, I thought they were cool
(35:46):
looking and that went out of business.
And I don't know like any in thestates that are making cool
looking chairs right now, but I see like a cool carbon fiber
ones or electric. Chairs are some new ones.
There's some new ones out. Andy I.
There are some new ones. The only thing that gets me
(36:06):
though is like, I think there there does have to be kind of
the idea of like you can have a practical aid that you don't
have to make look as ugly as they make them look.
Like ugly. Oh.
My gosh. My God, yes.
It's like they got out. Of their way.
To make them ugly and then charge tons of money for them.
(36:29):
Yes. So depressing.
Like so hospital like depressing.
Oh. Yeah, grey, grey and.
Aluminum. The one I think about is like,
and people can correct me if this is out of turn or wrong,
but like I have a lot of friendswho had kids and that thing that
were when you were expressing breast milk, it was like, why
(36:50):
does it make that sound like you're a fire animal or
something? I don't understand.
You know, it's not the time whenyou feel the most attractive
about yourself, but it's like itmakes the fire animal noise.
I don't understand what's happening here.
Like it's like, guys, you know, you could just help people to
feel better about them a little bit.
It's all I'm saying, you know what I mean.
(37:12):
I do feel like this new generation is demanding more
like that and I'm starting to see it.
I'm starting to see. A little bit of I had it about
my shower chair, like I did not want to get a shower chair
because I was like, it's a hospital.
Chair, right. And I was had a real association
with like the hospital about it and I was like, and I had to
(37:37):
just get over that. But like a lot of them don't
have to look as on it like as kind of medical equipment like
as they do. I think, you know, it's like you
could just make it a little, youknow, because especially if
people have to live with the thing all the time.
Right, it sits in the shower. And.
People come into your bathroom so other people are going to see
(37:59):
it. Does it have to look so
utilitarian? Could it be a little fancier?
I mean, it's plastic and metal. Can't.
Can we work with it a little bit?
OK, before we go, we want to tell you about a very special
organization that brought the three of us together five years
ago. It's called Mind Body Solutions.
They offer live online adaptive yoga classes, a YouTube library,
(38:23):
unique student only gathering spaces, and special live events
hosted by founder Matthew Sanford.
There's no fee to participate and no yoga experience required.
At MBS, you can connect with others who have disabilities and
reconnect with yourself. That's their mission, to help
people live more vibrantly and more connected, both in mind and
(38:44):
body. MBS has helped each of us
discover new ways to live, work,move, and simply be in the
bodies we have. And they can help you too.
So if you're listening and living with a disability or know
someone who is, check out their website at
mindbodysolutions.org. It's free.
(39:05):
It's hopeful and there's room for everybody.
Thatsmindbodysolutions.org. You can also connect with them
through our Looking up fromhere.com resources web page.
Thank you.
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