September 25, 2025 • 28 mins
Ever have someone look at you in a way that just deflates you and breaks your heart? What story have they overlaid on your experience and is it something you need to carry? In this episode, we talk about the different ways strangers relate to us--from sad looks to inappropriate comments to outrageous questions. And we talk a bit about both how those things land and how we have learned to cope with and move beyond them.
- Experiencing Pity: Personal Stories
- The Complexity of Reactions
- Insecurities and Emotional Responses
- The Misunderstanding Happiness
- Setting Boundaries and Personal Growth
- The Nature of Vulnerability
- Navigating Inappropriate Questions
- Perils & Prerogative of Rejecting Assistance
- Hypervigilance and Safety
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Yes. So that's not how you see
yourself, right? You look in their eyes and you
realize that they're not seeing you the way you see you.
It's just not how you see yourself.
And they're actually not seeing you at all.
They're seeing your chair. Hello and welcome to Looking Up
(00:38):
From Here, a podcast adventure where Angelique, Laura and I
explore the all-encompassing experience of living with a
disability. In this podcast, we delve into
how disability influences our interactions with the world
around us and how the world responds to us.
Along the way, we share our personal journeys and open up
(00:59):
about how our lives and identities have been shaped by
our reliance on wheelchairs for mobility.
Thank you for joining us and ourguests for these heartfelt and
often humorous conversations where we hope you'll gain a
deeper understanding of what it takes to navigate life on wheels
and maybe learn something about just living your best life, no
(01:20):
matter what challenges you're facing.
Hi, I'm your host, Samantha Geary.
I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in my 20s and have
lived with its ups and downs forover 30 years, including many
levels of disability, and I've used a wheelchair full time
since 2020. I'm your host, Laura Halsey.
(01:44):
I live in West Quirk in Ireland.I was born with a condition
called Spina Bifta and I have been in a wheelchair for about
30 years. I'm your host, Angelique Lele.
I used to perform as an aerial artist and I fell while I was
training. I was paralyzed from the hips
down. I've been in a wheelchair since
2012. You can learn more about us on
(02:06):
our website lookingupfromhere.com.
Thanks for joining us for a conversation today about all the
strange things people say to us.Not all of them, actually, just
the really annoying ones. It is, it is sometimes not just
what people say, but how people look at you.
(02:28):
And, and there are times when like I'm shored up and I and I'm
fine and I'm just like, forget, you know, I can just go past
them and not worry about it. And I have a story for that.
But there were a couple times where it just caught me off
guard and it felt almost like a slap in the face.
(02:50):
Yeah, one of those times I was coming home from work and I was
feeling really good and I was carrying it like a couple.
Like I would always carry my boxes up from the mail room.
And I lived on one end of our big complex and the mail room
was, of course, at the other. So I was carrying like one or
two boxes up and this guy walkedpast me and he looked at, he
(03:16):
kind of looked at me and then helooked again and the look in his
eyes was like, it was just so sad.
Just the the sometimes people are like go girl or like need
help with those, you know, like they'll say anything.
Yeah. It was so pitying and so like I
(03:37):
just felt horrible immediately horrible.
In fact, I walked, I walked, I rolled into my apartment and I
started crying and I was like, wait, like what on earth?
Like I don't even know this person.
He's new, obviously. Like it was a building that was
pretty like it was a very had a good community of people.
(03:59):
We all kind of knew each other alittle bit and but it just felt
so horrible. Those are the moments, you know,
I where I always have to call somebody and just say what
happened, like just say it out loud so that I can get a little
feedback where somebody says don't worry, that guy was just
an asshole. Think you're fine.
(04:21):
You were carrying boxes up from mail room.
That's how fine you are, you know.
But. It.
But here's the thing, like, is the person an asshole?
It's a good question because they're that's true.
Like that reaction. I could read that a couple
different ways. One is like what happens in that
(04:43):
moment and for some people is they see that and what they what
you know that they're thinking, which just makes you feel bad,
is they think, Oh my God, I couldn't handle that.
What they're thinking is, Oh my God, that's awful.
And they're, what they think they're doing is sort of
(05:05):
empathizing because they assume that you are.
Yeah, or that I'm suffering. Life is something less they
don't know, imagine and so or that you're suffering.
I mean, you know, yeah, we all suffer sometimes, but we also,
those of us who adapted disability have adapted to our
(05:28):
disability and we have our ups and downs like everybody else
about our particular physical condition.
You take them by surprise, right?
Because you you come around a corner and they see you and
they're like, Oh my God. And so they don't have a chance
to collect themselves if they don't have any experience.
Like we are all little bit like unicorns.
You know, they're, like I said to a friend the other day, like,
(05:49):
how many people do you know that?
Well, to be fair, we were walking down a long hallway.
Towards each. Towards each.
Other not turn the corner, but still I mean it.
But I like I like, I like what you're saying.
I mean, I get, I get what you'resaying.
And I think that that's a reallygood point and thank you because
I never thought about that. Well, I just, I mean, I having
(06:14):
experienced that myself and feeling the same way I've I, I,
I guess I'm just sort of carefulabout demonizing people.
On the other hand, So that's just like a random guy.
But the thing that sticks with me, I mean, there's, we all have
so many stories, but one time I was still walking, but I walked
(06:35):
with two canes and it was not a fun thing to watch, right?
But I was walking into the gym and one of the trainers who I
didn't know, but she like, comesout of the restroom and she says
she just sort of suddenly meets me in the hall.
She sees me walking and without a second beat goes, oh, my God,
you poor thing. I was pissed off because that's
(07:00):
somebody who should know better.Like I'm coming into her
workspace. Like, what do you mean, you poor
thing? Like, that's I was so mad.
And now my trainer was her boss.So I went, you know, into my
session. I was like, just so you know,
that is not the appropriate reaction when you see somebody
working as hard as I do to walk into this space, You know, And
(07:25):
again, I don't think she's a badperson, but what she was
conveying to me was this sort ofwhat I call the, you know,
piety, this sort of sense of looking down on me, which is
different than somebody who's just feeling pained by my
situation. What?
(07:47):
Right, because her what? Hers wasn't actually genuine.
Hers was just like, Oh my God, you're a mess.
Yeah, I. Wanted to say fuck you lady
like. You know, the thing about the
thing about Angelique's example is like, yeah, it's not like
that guy was planning it and he saw you and he had a reaction.
(08:09):
But like, and sometimes we can'thelp that.
But where I get frustrated is like, I work hard when I see
people to not project in a story.
I don't know that they're like, right.
The thing is that you actually don't know if they're having a
terrible time. You don't know if they feel bad.
(08:29):
You know what I mean? Like, right.
I just think that people past a certain age should know better
than to sort of create a narrative and project it onto
you like that. Like if it's an instant of a
look, it's not like people don'tplan that and make good.
And sometimes, like Angelique, did you, you see and you're
(08:51):
like, Oh yeah, sometimes people will correct themselves.
Then they'll you know that when you see they're like, and you
know what I mean? And that's fair enough.
But it's the it's the other one of like he's already told
himself a story about Angelique.That's not true.
You know, yeah, but he's also a guy, and he probably wasn't.
(09:12):
Maybe Or maybe. He has a friend in a wheelchair,
too. Like I was just thinking like,
maybe he has a friend and or like, family member.
Yeah. But like, it was just a bit of
his soul came out and then a bitof my soul popped out.
You know what I mean? Like those two things may, you
know, it's like when you read a text, you don't know the tone.
(09:33):
There's so many unknowns in it. But it was just those two little
moments. Like there was his moment and it
was my moment and his meant whatever his did, he walked all
the way down the hallway and he's gone.
And I, I don't even think I eversaw him again.
Like I don't even remember him any more than I just remember
that moment. But then there's my moment that
(09:56):
I'll have you know, and oh, I don't know.
Yeah, but let's dig into that more.
That moment is, it's such a powerful moment.
He went home and he cried. And So what else is wrapped up
in that moment for you? You know, every insecurity,
every insecurity I've had probably from the time I was
(10:17):
walking till the time I've been in my chair till the time my
body's been changing and all thethings I can and can't do about
it. And then my fears around like
what I might, what's going to become of me, You know, like all
of it is just. It's just the whole thing.
It's like it, it's like Pandora's boxes open by that.
(10:41):
Yeah, that's the bigger thing, right?
It's like that person almost doesn't matter, but somehow they
open a door into a chamber that we like to have the door closed
on and control access to, right.That's.
Neat. To me, I more feel like when
(11:01):
those things happen to me, I, I go, I have this moment where
like I'm like could be just getting on a normal day and I'll
see someone. And then the sadness for me is
like, oh, you're, you have a different idea of what this is
(11:23):
like. You haven't you have created,
there's created narrative like publicly of like that he should
feel bad for me. And whereas like I am just
getting on with day and not feeling bad for myself.
And sometimes when I see it in other people's eyes, I'm like,
(11:43):
Oh yeah. So we're, we're kind of, we're
like totally having a different experience here.
Right. You know what I mean?
Well, you know, there's a study,I'll have to look it up.
But there was a study done wherethey asked people what they
thought thought would make them happy and what would make them
unhappy. And, you know, everybody said,
(12:06):
oh, if I won the lottery, I'd bereally happy.
And, and everybody said, well, if I had to use a wheelchair,
I'd be really unhappy. But what they did is they looked
at it in real life, like they studied people who won the
lottery and people who had to use wheelchairs.
And what they saw was that people who win the lottery
(12:26):
within a year or two are just asunhappy or happy as they were
before. Some are more unhappy because of
all the things that come with it.
So that's not true. And people who have started
using wheelchairs, they have a an adjustment period, but they
tend to come back up to their baseline and they're just kind
of where they were before it allstarted.
(12:48):
So that narrative that Laura's talking about is really
interesting because people are projecting what they think and
they're often wrong. And that's actually what I feel
like when I'm out in the world. Like almost almost feels like my
mission. You're right.
Like I almost feel like if I were prepared enough, like I
(13:10):
would have stopped that guy. I would have said, you know,
sweetie, life goes on. We're all doing the best we can.
It'll be it would be OK. Like what's happening here, You
know, like I feel old enough nowthat I can do things like that
where I didn't feel that when I was younger, but younger I had
(13:31):
to. I feel like I had to deal with
it. Differently, I feel like I don't
carry them as much as I used to it.
I feel like I'm I'm better ass. Like sometimes when I see those
people, I say I'm going to leavethat with you.
Wow, that's a great. Expression to write that down
somewhere. I'm not going to carry.
(13:54):
I'm not going to carry that. I'm not going to carry that
around. It's not going to stick to me
because they used to stick to me, every one of them when I was
young. And then you carry them around
and bring them home. And I sometimes see them there
when I'm like, you're not cominghome.
This is not coming home with. You're not coming home with me.
(14:15):
Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting.
Laura, How did you learn to do that?
That's such a wonderful way of approaching it.
I think just through practice and also I suppose in some ways
doing bodywork of knowing that those things large in your
system, you know, like Angelique's describing that
(14:36):
experience of something that happened a long time ago that
sometimes you, I mean, I can conjure up some of those people
from when I was really young because I carried a comment for
so long after it was said to me,right.
And so when I'm older now, I just go, it'll hurt for a little
while, but I'm like, you know, I'm just going to drop.
(14:58):
I'm going to drop that here because I don't have this.
I just don't want to them to take up that much space.
Like a guy said something to me once about like, oh, I presume
you don't have a job or something.
And I'm so 20 and for I would say 10 years.
I told that story. And I had a friend who was like,
maybe you want to leave him. Go, Laura.
(15:20):
No, I was like, yeah, you know, he was like, you may not let
that guy go. He was an asshole.
Do you know what I mean? Right.
Like there's a point in which you're like, I can't carry this
negative story around with me anymore, you know?
Not that that's easy to do, by the way.
It's not like some of those, I can literally see their faces
because I was young. I took them on.
(15:43):
I took them so personally. Right.
But I just think it's practice of it as well.
Yeah. I cannot let you take up this
much room in my head. Like it's just not.
It's just not OK. Yeah.
Well, and I think too, as you know, last time we were talking,
there was this sort of overlay was some of how we process
(16:05):
things like this because we're women.
I mean, Angelique, you said likeit, he tapped into everything
you felt before you had your accident in addition to
everything since like it's, it'sa whole continuum of being
surprised at how the world interprets you or sees you.
(16:27):
I think just being surprised by that.
And maybe in terms of the handicapped part of it, you,
because that's not how you see yourself, right?
If people see you, you realize that people are looking at you
and they're not seeing how you see you.
Even going out and feeling like you're having like a super
pretty day, like a super sexy day, you know, and then just
(16:51):
getting something like that, just that feeling, that
sensation where you're like, oh,before there's that sense of
being objectified in one way or another.
And when you're in a wheelchair,you're objectified, but not in
any way that's like, it's like that you want to be.
Yeah, yeah. No that you want to be.
(17:14):
That's complementary. Yeah, no, no, no.
And people make weird. Yeah, people say things.
Oh God, isn't I don't thinking that that's a good comment in
some way? And then it's like just a weird
like. I'm really confused by what
people think is OK to call. To say.
(17:38):
Like to it to a total stranger or like obviously it's very
different from me. I've I've lived with it since I
was born. But like, so maybe it's just a
certain awareness, but like I look at people and I think
really did you just, did you just think that was a good idea,
(17:59):
like? At.
What point did you go? You know what I'm going to say
to that woman? Why?
I really, I find it so confusing, like don't have an
inside voice. It's not like I don't think
things about people because we all have and we all have biases
and we all tell a story. But I don't feel the need to go
(18:22):
up and tell them, you know what I mean?
I just really don't. Don't you think that the
wheelchair. There's something about the
wheelchair that makes. Absolutely, Absolutely.
More approachable. Yeah, hundreds.
And sometimes that's a good thing.
Like people tell me stuff. It's, it's almost like I, I feel
(18:43):
like I'm a, a priest or something.
Like there's something about being like they want to confess
things to me. They want to tell me their
pains. Like, like there's this like
they want to come over and sharetheir, you know, burdens.
Do you think which is interesting?
Sign of vulnerability or something?
(19:05):
I've, I honestly have spent years trying to figure this out.
Like is it because they sing think you look vulnerable and
they're like, I'll tell you my vulnerable story?
I don't know. I'm I've always tried to work
out. Where is it that you're safe,
you're not a threat? You're not threatened when
you're in a wheelchair. I like when I walk around the
neighborhood like in Minneapolis, I lived in
(19:26):
Minneapolis and even here, like I just find that people they're
a lot friendlier. And then people even like
homeless people or people who vulnerable people, I think that
other people wouldn't talk to tend to, I mean not interact
with me a little bit more. And I think that they feel like
(19:46):
they can, you know, and I don't,I don't mind.
It's not like I feel like, oh, don't talk to me.
I just feel like right. No, it's not that I.
Always mind, I'm just, I'm just interested in because I mean,
I've always had that from very young and I, I've always just
been interested in why. What is it about you in the
position that makes people go? I'm going to go up and tell you
(20:09):
that. I used to take public
transportation all the time in Minneapolis.
And so, you know, you get strapped down in the front of
the bus until you can't move. It's not like you can get up and
go to the back of the bus if theperson talking to you on your
right or left won't stop talking.
But the people who feel like they can come to come next to
you and just start up a conversation and you're like, Oh
(20:32):
my goodness. Like, what are you saying to me?
You know, I mean, I've been proposed to, can I have your
number? No, you cannot have my number.
I'm not giving you my number. And, you know, like the
questions that people ask, it's like, I can't, I'm not going to
(20:53):
tell you that that's not a question I'm going to answer.
Like. Just.
Yeah, Does that, does everythingstill work down there?
I'm like, excuse me, what? You know, Oh my God, I got asked
so many inappropriate questions when I was in my 20s.
(21:15):
I was very non confrontational. I mean, I wish now that I could
be this age and have people do that because there's a lot of
things I would say. You've had a lot of time to
think about it at this point you're like, I'm ready for you
now all. They used to be, is what I'm
trying to say. Ten years later, I'm like, I was
(21:37):
way too polite to you for this absolutely really inappropriate
question. Try it again.
Try it again. Redo.
Like I just, they used to ask meso many and so many questions
about my body and I just feel like I was like a vulnerable 21
year old girl. I was like, what is happening?
(21:59):
Do you? Know what I mean?
Right? I know.
I do have kind of, I look back at her and I go, oh, you poor
thing, because I'll even do it to her.
Because I think look at you likeyou were just a sitting duck for
those people. And I had no boundaries.
I used to be like, no, it's OK. And now I'd be like this is not
OK. Right.
(22:23):
I do feel vulnerable in my wheelchair in many ways.
So having boundaries is, I mean,is so important.
But then like, knowing when to set them and like, you don't
want to make anybody mad really.You know, 'cause you know, I'm
(22:43):
like, in, in some ways I'm afraid of making the wrong
person really angry in case theydo something to me.
Do you know, like if I'm on the street, 'cause there's crazy
people out there, you don't knowuntil they actually do something
crazy? I don't know there's.
And what can I learned? What makes people, what makes
(23:06):
certain people really mad, as ifthey come up to you really
wanting to have this exchange with you and you don't want it,
it can be met with a lot of anger.
And I have had that experience where I'm like, OK, I have to, I
have to handle this in a way where, yeah, you're not going to
(23:30):
get angry if I say no to it. You know what I mean?
And I think as a women, as women, that's harder because you
are there is an element of like,am I going to be OK here?
Also, I am always thinking, willI be able to get absolutely.
I don't know. But you guys play.
I'm in a public place and someone is kind of hostile to
(23:53):
me. I am going, what's my exit
strategy here? Because most of the time your
exit strategy is not a fast one.Right.
Well, yeah, we don't move fast. Yeah.
What? Yeah, What?
I mean, have you had people be hostile to you?
Yeah, I mean, it's happened a few times.
Nothing, nothing really like dramatic, but I've certainly
(24:17):
had, I think sometimes if you should, if people think that
they're doing something like they're sharing something with
you or they're being what I think is inappropriate.
And I have said it on occasion and people do not like it.
It's kind of like when you they ask you do you want help and you
say no and some. People.
(24:40):
Really don't appreciate that youdon't want it.
Right, right. Yeah, absolutely.
I have had people get angry at me for not not wanting help.
Yeah, yeah, me too. And I, I think to myself, like,
how am I going to get out of here?
This turns a certain way, you know what I mean?
(25:01):
Or if people get really hostile and particularly when I was
younger, like as a young woman going around the place, I was
like, oh, is this does you know,we all have a hyper vigilance of
like have to read this situationand see if this is OK.
That's interesting you use the word hyper vigilance because
(25:22):
that is something that I have developed.
I mean, I was always vigilant, but I really am now hyper
vigilant in a way that is not. It's like I'm trying to make it
a healthier thing for myself because I just, I do think that
(25:43):
we are attuned to the world differently and feel a need to
be vigilant. There's always this sort of low,
low, sometimes high grade anxiety about, well, what
happens if this happens? What happens if this happens?
Like, we have to be thinking through all of the different
possibilities in a different waybecause, yeah, we don't, we
(26:05):
don't, we can't react. Like, you know, this, this dog
catfight the other day, like that was horrifying.
It was sort of traumatic for me because I could not intervene
fast enough. They were too fast for me.
Right. So my sense of, you know, my
(26:26):
lack of agency, my lack of ability to assert myself in a
way that I wanted was really upsetting for me.
It's when it is that smack in the face when you're like, yeah,
I can do everything. And then suddenly you're like,
Nope, I can't, you know, laugh or cry, but maybe both
(26:49):
sometimes. Both.
Yeah. It's like, I think I've used to
spend a lot of time sort of assessing situations.
I think particularly as a young person who was disabled, like
there was always the strategy. And I realized that that was
(27:12):
actually wearing me out. And I had to kind of tone it
down and be like, if this doesn't work, we'll be OK.
Hey, before we go, we want to tell you about a very special
organization that brought the three of us together five years
ago. It's called Mind Body Solutions.
They offer live online adaptive yoga classes, a YouTube library,
(27:35):
unique student only gathering spaces, and special live events
hosted by founder Matthew Sanford.
There's no fee to participate and no yoga experience required.
At MBS, you can connect with others who have disabilities and
reconnect with yourself. That's their mission, to help
people live more vibrantly and more connected, both in mind and
(27:57):
body. MBS has helped each of us
discover new ways to live, work,move, and simply be in the
bodies we have. And they can help you too.
So if you're listening and living with a disability or know
someone who is, check out their website at
mindbodysolutions.org. It's free, it's hopeful, and
(28:19):
there's room for everybody. That's mindbodysolutionsorg.
You can also connect with them through our Looking U from
Herecom resources web page. Thank you.
Yes. So that's not how you see
yourself, right? You look in their eyes and you
realize that they're not seeing you the way you see you.
It's just not how you see yourself.
And they're actually not seeing you at all.
They're seeing your chair. Hello and welcome to Looking Up
(00:38):
From Here, a podcast adventure where Angelique, Laura and I
explore the all-encompassing experience of living with a
disability. In this podcast, we delve into
how disability influences our interactions with the world
around us and how the world responds to us.
Along the way, we share our personal journeys and open up
(00:59):
about how our lives and identities have been shaped by
our reliance on wheelchairs for mobility.
Thank you for joining us and ourguests for these heartfelt and
often humorous conversations where we hope you'll gain a
deeper understanding of what it takes to navigate life on wheels
and maybe learn something about just living your best life, no
(01:20):
matter what challenges you're facing.
Hi, I'm your host, Samantha Geary.
I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in my 20s and have
lived with its ups and downs forover 30 years, including many
levels of disability, and I've used a wheelchair full time
since 2020. I'm your host, Laura Halsey.
(01:44):
I live in West Quirk in Ireland.I was born with a condition
called Spina Bifta and I have been in a wheelchair for about
30 years. I'm your host, Angelique Lele.
I used to perform as an aerial artist and I fell while I was
training. I was paralyzed from the hips
down. I've been in a wheelchair since
2012. You can learn more about us on
(02:06):
our website lookingupfromhere.com.
Thanks for joining us for a conversation today about all the
strange things people say to us.Not all of them, actually, just
the really annoying ones. It is, it is sometimes not just
what people say, but how people look at you.
(02:28):
And, and there are times when like I'm shored up and I and I'm
fine and I'm just like, forget, you know, I can just go past
them and not worry about it. And I have a story for that.
But there were a couple times where it just caught me off
guard and it felt almost like a slap in the face.
(02:50):
Yeah, one of those times I was coming home from work and I was
feeling really good and I was carrying it like a couple.
Like I would always carry my boxes up from the mail room.
And I lived on one end of our big complex and the mail room
was, of course, at the other. So I was carrying like one or
two boxes up and this guy walkedpast me and he looked at, he
(03:16):
kind of looked at me and then helooked again and the look in his
eyes was like, it was just so sad.
Just the the sometimes people are like go girl or like need
help with those, you know, like they'll say anything.
Yeah. It was so pitying and so like I
(03:37):
just felt horrible immediately horrible.
In fact, I walked, I walked, I rolled into my apartment and I
started crying and I was like, wait, like what on earth?
Like I don't even know this person.
He's new, obviously. Like it was a building that was
pretty like it was a very had a good community of people.
(03:59):
We all kind of knew each other alittle bit and but it just felt
so horrible. Those are the moments, you know,
I where I always have to call somebody and just say what
happened, like just say it out loud so that I can get a little
feedback where somebody says don't worry, that guy was just
an asshole. Think you're fine.
(04:21):
You were carrying boxes up from mail room.
That's how fine you are, you know.
But. It.
But here's the thing, like, is the person an asshole?
It's a good question because they're that's true.
Like that reaction. I could read that a couple
different ways. One is like what happens in that
(04:43):
moment and for some people is they see that and what they what
you know that they're thinking, which just makes you feel bad,
is they think, Oh my God, I couldn't handle that.
What they're thinking is, Oh my God, that's awful.
And they're, what they think they're doing is sort of
(05:05):
empathizing because they assume that you are.
Yeah, or that I'm suffering. Life is something less they
don't know, imagine and so or that you're suffering.
I mean, you know, yeah, we all suffer sometimes, but we also,
those of us who adapted disability have adapted to our
(05:28):
disability and we have our ups and downs like everybody else
about our particular physical condition.
You take them by surprise, right?
Because you you come around a corner and they see you and
they're like, Oh my God. And so they don't have a chance
to collect themselves if they don't have any experience.
Like we are all little bit like unicorns.
You know, they're, like I said to a friend the other day, like,
(05:49):
how many people do you know that?
Well, to be fair, we were walking down a long hallway.
Towards each. Towards each.
Other not turn the corner, but still I mean it.
But I like I like, I like what you're saying.
I mean, I get, I get what you'resaying.
And I think that that's a reallygood point and thank you because
I never thought about that. Well, I just, I mean, I having
(06:14):
experienced that myself and feeling the same way I've I, I,
I guess I'm just sort of carefulabout demonizing people.
On the other hand, So that's just like a random guy.
But the thing that sticks with me, I mean, there's, we all have
so many stories, but one time I was still walking, but I walked
(06:35):
with two canes and it was not a fun thing to watch, right?
But I was walking into the gym and one of the trainers who I
didn't know, but she like, comesout of the restroom and she says
she just sort of suddenly meets me in the hall.
She sees me walking and without a second beat goes, oh, my God,
you poor thing. I was pissed off because that's
(07:00):
somebody who should know better.Like I'm coming into her
workspace. Like, what do you mean, you poor
thing? Like, that's I was so mad.
And now my trainer was her boss.So I went, you know, into my
session. I was like, just so you know,
that is not the appropriate reaction when you see somebody
working as hard as I do to walk into this space, You know, And
(07:25):
again, I don't think she's a badperson, but what she was
conveying to me was this sort ofwhat I call the, you know,
piety, this sort of sense of looking down on me, which is
different than somebody who's just feeling pained by my
situation. What?
(07:47):
Right, because her what? Hers wasn't actually genuine.
Hers was just like, Oh my God, you're a mess.
Yeah, I. Wanted to say fuck you lady
like. You know, the thing about the
thing about Angelique's example is like, yeah, it's not like
that guy was planning it and he saw you and he had a reaction.
(08:09):
But like, and sometimes we can'thelp that.
But where I get frustrated is like, I work hard when I see
people to not project in a story.
I don't know that they're like, right.
The thing is that you actually don't know if they're having a
terrible time. You don't know if they feel bad.
(08:29):
You know what I mean? Like, right.
I just think that people past a certain age should know better
than to sort of create a narrative and project it onto
you like that. Like if it's an instant of a
look, it's not like people don'tplan that and make good.
And sometimes, like Angelique, did you, you see and you're
(08:51):
like, Oh yeah, sometimes people will correct themselves.
Then they'll you know that when you see they're like, and you
know what I mean? And that's fair enough.
But it's the it's the other one of like he's already told
himself a story about Angelique.That's not true.
You know, yeah, but he's also a guy, and he probably wasn't.
(09:12):
Maybe Or maybe. He has a friend in a wheelchair,
too. Like I was just thinking like,
maybe he has a friend and or like, family member.
Yeah. But like, it was just a bit of
his soul came out and then a bitof my soul popped out.
You know what I mean? Like those two things may, you
know, it's like when you read a text, you don't know the tone.
(09:33):
There's so many unknowns in it. But it was just those two little
moments. Like there was his moment and it
was my moment and his meant whatever his did, he walked all
the way down the hallway and he's gone.
And I, I don't even think I eversaw him again.
Like I don't even remember him any more than I just remember
that moment. But then there's my moment that
(09:56):
I'll have you know, and oh, I don't know.
Yeah, but let's dig into that more.
That moment is, it's such a powerful moment.
He went home and he cried. And So what else is wrapped up
in that moment for you? You know, every insecurity,
every insecurity I've had probably from the time I was
(10:17):
walking till the time I've been in my chair till the time my
body's been changing and all thethings I can and can't do about
it. And then my fears around like
what I might, what's going to become of me, You know, like all
of it is just. It's just the whole thing.
It's like it, it's like Pandora's boxes open by that.
(10:41):
Yeah, that's the bigger thing, right?
It's like that person almost doesn't matter, but somehow they
open a door into a chamber that we like to have the door closed
on and control access to, right.That's.
Neat. To me, I more feel like when
(11:01):
those things happen to me, I, I go, I have this moment where
like I'm like could be just getting on a normal day and I'll
see someone. And then the sadness for me is
like, oh, you're, you have a different idea of what this is
(11:23):
like. You haven't you have created,
there's created narrative like publicly of like that he should
feel bad for me. And whereas like I am just
getting on with day and not feeling bad for myself.
And sometimes when I see it in other people's eyes, I'm like,
(11:43):
Oh yeah. So we're, we're kind of, we're
like totally having a different experience here.
Right. You know what I mean?
Well, you know, there's a study,I'll have to look it up.
But there was a study done wherethey asked people what they
thought thought would make them happy and what would make them
unhappy. And, you know, everybody said,
(12:06):
oh, if I won the lottery, I'd bereally happy.
And, and everybody said, well, if I had to use a wheelchair,
I'd be really unhappy. But what they did is they looked
at it in real life, like they studied people who won the
lottery and people who had to use wheelchairs.
And what they saw was that people who win the lottery
(12:26):
within a year or two are just asunhappy or happy as they were
before. Some are more unhappy because of
all the things that come with it.
So that's not true. And people who have started
using wheelchairs, they have a an adjustment period, but they
tend to come back up to their baseline and they're just kind
of where they were before it allstarted.
(12:48):
So that narrative that Laura's talking about is really
interesting because people are projecting what they think and
they're often wrong. And that's actually what I feel
like when I'm out in the world. Like almost almost feels like my
mission. You're right.
Like I almost feel like if I were prepared enough, like I
(13:10):
would have stopped that guy. I would have said, you know,
sweetie, life goes on. We're all doing the best we can.
It'll be it would be OK. Like what's happening here, You
know, like I feel old enough nowthat I can do things like that
where I didn't feel that when I was younger, but younger I had
(13:31):
to. I feel like I had to deal with
it. Differently, I feel like I don't
carry them as much as I used to it.
I feel like I'm I'm better ass. Like sometimes when I see those
people, I say I'm going to leavethat with you.
Wow, that's a great. Expression to write that down
somewhere. I'm not going to carry.
(13:54):
I'm not going to carry that. I'm not going to carry that
around. It's not going to stick to me
because they used to stick to me, every one of them when I was
young. And then you carry them around
and bring them home. And I sometimes see them there
when I'm like, you're not cominghome.
This is not coming home with. You're not coming home with me.
(14:15):
Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting.
Laura, How did you learn to do that?
That's such a wonderful way of approaching it.
I think just through practice and also I suppose in some ways
doing bodywork of knowing that those things large in your
system, you know, like Angelique's describing that
(14:36):
experience of something that happened a long time ago that
sometimes you, I mean, I can conjure up some of those people
from when I was really young because I carried a comment for
so long after it was said to me,right.
And so when I'm older now, I just go, it'll hurt for a little
while, but I'm like, you know, I'm just going to drop.
(14:58):
I'm going to drop that here because I don't have this.
I just don't want to them to take up that much space.
Like a guy said something to me once about like, oh, I presume
you don't have a job or something.
And I'm so 20 and for I would say 10 years.
I told that story. And I had a friend who was like,
maybe you want to leave him. Go, Laura.
(15:20):
No, I was like, yeah, you know, he was like, you may not let
that guy go. He was an asshole.
Do you know what I mean? Right.
Like there's a point in which you're like, I can't carry this
negative story around with me anymore, you know?
Not that that's easy to do, by the way.
It's not like some of those, I can literally see their faces
because I was young. I took them on.
(15:43):
I took them so personally. Right.
But I just think it's practice of it as well.
Yeah. I cannot let you take up this
much room in my head. Like it's just not.
It's just not OK. Yeah.
Well, and I think too, as you know, last time we were talking,
there was this sort of overlay was some of how we process
(16:05):
things like this because we're women.
I mean, Angelique, you said likeit, he tapped into everything
you felt before you had your accident in addition to
everything since like it's, it'sa whole continuum of being
surprised at how the world interprets you or sees you.
(16:27):
I think just being surprised by that.
And maybe in terms of the handicapped part of it, you,
because that's not how you see yourself, right?
If people see you, you realize that people are looking at you
and they're not seeing how you see you.
Even going out and feeling like you're having like a super
pretty day, like a super sexy day, you know, and then just
(16:51):
getting something like that, just that feeling, that
sensation where you're like, oh,before there's that sense of
being objectified in one way or another.
And when you're in a wheelchair,you're objectified, but not in
any way that's like, it's like that you want to be.
Yeah, yeah. No that you want to be.
(17:14):
That's complementary. Yeah, no, no, no.
And people make weird. Yeah, people say things.
Oh God, isn't I don't thinking that that's a good comment in
some way? And then it's like just a weird
like. I'm really confused by what
people think is OK to call. To say.
(17:38):
Like to it to a total stranger or like obviously it's very
different from me. I've I've lived with it since I
was born. But like, so maybe it's just a
certain awareness, but like I look at people and I think
really did you just, did you just think that was a good idea,
(17:59):
like? At.
What point did you go? You know what I'm going to say
to that woman? Why?
I really, I find it so confusing, like don't have an
inside voice. It's not like I don't think
things about people because we all have and we all have biases
and we all tell a story. But I don't feel the need to go
(18:22):
up and tell them, you know what I mean?
I just really don't. Don't you think that the
wheelchair. There's something about the
wheelchair that makes. Absolutely, Absolutely.
More approachable. Yeah, hundreds.
And sometimes that's a good thing.
Like people tell me stuff. It's, it's almost like I, I feel
(18:43):
like I'm a, a priest or something.
Like there's something about being like they want to confess
things to me. They want to tell me their
pains. Like, like there's this like
they want to come over and sharetheir, you know, burdens.
Do you think which is interesting?
Sign of vulnerability or something?
(19:05):
I've, I honestly have spent years trying to figure this out.
Like is it because they sing think you look vulnerable and
they're like, I'll tell you my vulnerable story?
I don't know. I'm I've always tried to work
out. Where is it that you're safe,
you're not a threat? You're not threatened when
you're in a wheelchair. I like when I walk around the
neighborhood like in Minneapolis, I lived in
(19:26):
Minneapolis and even here, like I just find that people they're
a lot friendlier. And then people even like
homeless people or people who vulnerable people, I think that
other people wouldn't talk to tend to, I mean not interact
with me a little bit more. And I think that they feel like
(19:46):
they can, you know, and I don't,I don't mind.
It's not like I feel like, oh, don't talk to me.
I just feel like right. No, it's not that I.
Always mind, I'm just, I'm just interested in because I mean,
I've always had that from very young and I, I've always just
been interested in why. What is it about you in the
position that makes people go? I'm going to go up and tell you
(20:09):
that. I used to take public
transportation all the time in Minneapolis.
And so, you know, you get strapped down in the front of
the bus until you can't move. It's not like you can get up and
go to the back of the bus if theperson talking to you on your
right or left won't stop talking.
But the people who feel like they can come to come next to
you and just start up a conversation and you're like, Oh
(20:32):
my goodness. Like, what are you saying to me?
You know, I mean, I've been proposed to, can I have your
number? No, you cannot have my number.
I'm not giving you my number. And, you know, like the
questions that people ask, it's like, I can't, I'm not going to
(20:53):
tell you that that's not a question I'm going to answer.
Like. Just.
Yeah, Does that, does everythingstill work down there?
I'm like, excuse me, what? You know, Oh my God, I got asked
so many inappropriate questions when I was in my 20s.
(21:15):
I was very non confrontational. I mean, I wish now that I could
be this age and have people do that because there's a lot of
things I would say. You've had a lot of time to
think about it at this point you're like, I'm ready for you
now all. They used to be, is what I'm
trying to say. Ten years later, I'm like, I was
(21:37):
way too polite to you for this absolutely really inappropriate
question. Try it again.
Try it again. Redo.
Like I just, they used to ask meso many and so many questions
about my body and I just feel like I was like a vulnerable 21
year old girl. I was like, what is happening?
(21:59):
Do you? Know what I mean?
Right? I know.
I do have kind of, I look back at her and I go, oh, you poor
thing, because I'll even do it to her.
Because I think look at you likeyou were just a sitting duck for
those people. And I had no boundaries.
I used to be like, no, it's OK. And now I'd be like this is not
OK. Right.
(22:23):
I do feel vulnerable in my wheelchair in many ways.
So having boundaries is, I mean,is so important.
But then like, knowing when to set them and like, you don't
want to make anybody mad really.You know, 'cause you know, I'm
(22:43):
like, in, in some ways I'm afraid of making the wrong
person really angry in case theydo something to me.
Do you know, like if I'm on the street, 'cause there's crazy
people out there, you don't knowuntil they actually do something
crazy? I don't know there's.
And what can I learned? What makes people, what makes
(23:06):
certain people really mad, as ifthey come up to you really
wanting to have this exchange with you and you don't want it,
it can be met with a lot of anger.
And I have had that experience where I'm like, OK, I have to, I
have to handle this in a way where, yeah, you're not going to
(23:30):
get angry if I say no to it. You know what I mean?
And I think as a women, as women, that's harder because you
are there is an element of like,am I going to be OK here?
Also, I am always thinking, willI be able to get absolutely.
I don't know. But you guys play.
I'm in a public place and someone is kind of hostile to
(23:53):
me. I am going, what's my exit
strategy here? Because most of the time your
exit strategy is not a fast one.Right.
Well, yeah, we don't move fast. Yeah.
What? Yeah, What?
I mean, have you had people be hostile to you?
Yeah, I mean, it's happened a few times.
Nothing, nothing really like dramatic, but I've certainly
(24:17):
had, I think sometimes if you should, if people think that
they're doing something like they're sharing something with
you or they're being what I think is inappropriate.
And I have said it on occasion and people do not like it.
It's kind of like when you they ask you do you want help and you
say no and some. People.
(24:40):
Really don't appreciate that youdon't want it.
Right, right. Yeah, absolutely.
I have had people get angry at me for not not wanting help.
Yeah, yeah, me too. And I, I think to myself, like,
how am I going to get out of here?
This turns a certain way, you know what I mean?
(25:01):
Or if people get really hostile and particularly when I was
younger, like as a young woman going around the place, I was
like, oh, is this does you know,we all have a hyper vigilance of
like have to read this situationand see if this is OK.
That's interesting you use the word hyper vigilance because
(25:22):
that is something that I have developed.
I mean, I was always vigilant, but I really am now hyper
vigilant in a way that is not. It's like I'm trying to make it
a healthier thing for myself because I just, I do think that
(25:43):
we are attuned to the world differently and feel a need to
be vigilant. There's always this sort of low,
low, sometimes high grade anxiety about, well, what
happens if this happens? What happens if this happens?
Like, we have to be thinking through all of the different
possibilities in a different waybecause, yeah, we don't, we
(26:05):
don't, we can't react. Like, you know, this, this dog
catfight the other day, like that was horrifying.
It was sort of traumatic for me because I could not intervene
fast enough. They were too fast for me.
Right. So my sense of, you know, my
(26:26):
lack of agency, my lack of ability to assert myself in a
way that I wanted was really upsetting for me.
It's when it is that smack in the face when you're like, yeah,
I can do everything. And then suddenly you're like,
Nope, I can't, you know, laugh or cry, but maybe both
(26:49):
sometimes. Both.
Yeah. It's like, I think I've used to
spend a lot of time sort of assessing situations.
I think particularly as a young person who was disabled, like
there was always the strategy. And I realized that that was
(27:12):
actually wearing me out. And I had to kind of tone it
down and be like, if this doesn't work, we'll be OK.
Hey, before we go, we want to tell you about a very special
organization that brought the three of us together five years
ago. It's called Mind Body Solutions.
They offer live online adaptive yoga classes, a YouTube library,
(27:35):
unique student only gathering spaces, and special live events
hosted by founder Matthew Sanford.
There's no fee to participate and no yoga experience required.
At MBS, you can connect with others who have disabilities and
reconnect with yourself. That's their mission, to help
people live more vibrantly and more connected, both in mind and
(27:57):
body. MBS has helped each of us
discover new ways to live, work,move, and simply be in the
bodies we have. And they can help you too.
So if you're listening and living with a disability or know
someone who is, check out their website at
mindbodysolutions.org. It's free, it's hopeful, and
(28:19):
there's room for everybody. That's mindbodysolutionsorg.
You can also connect with them through our Looking U from
Herecom resources web page. Thank you.
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