April 8, 2025 • 39 mins
Meet Kathy Costa McKeown as she takes us behind the scenes of DanceWorks Studios, revealing how dance education builds resilience, community, and lifelong connections for students of all ages. Through her 27 years as a studio owner, choreographer, and "Mama Kath" to over 467 students, she demonstrates how movement becomes both art and therapy.
In this episode you will learn:
• Kathy's dance origin story
• Danceworks Studios philosphy
• How dance style and teaching have changed through the years
• How to help students navigate body image issues and emotional development through dance
• To balance technical training with an emotional connection to movement
• To encourage students to process disappointment as a temporary part of life
• Preparing for the inaugural Montclair Dance Festival on May 31st
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey Rachel, hey Jeanette, Today we have a great
interview with Kathy CostaMcEwen, a woman who is near and
dear to my heart and my wholefamilies because she is the
artistic director, achoreographer and owner of
DanceWorks Studios, which is adance studio on Grove Street in
Montclair, new Jersey.
But that is not all she does.
(00:20):
She does so many things.
She started this studio areally long time ago and it
takes kids from as young as, Ithink, three years old We'll ask
her to confirm all the way upthrough high school.
She it's a very inclusivestudio.
It's not a competition dancestudio, and she can explain the
difference between the two andhow she really nurtures these
(00:42):
kids all throughout every stageof growth, basically Like the
life cycle of a child, I wouldimagine that you have to be
somewhat of like a second mom insome ways.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, you know to these kids because they're so
young and they're you know,developing and even when they're
teens and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So I think and she sees things that teachers don't
even see, because she gets themevery single year.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I would imagine also because dance is such an intense
sport that you also get thatemotional breakdown and
sometimes need to be there tonurture them, because other
things might come out at thattime when they're like I can't
do this and I can't do that.
I mean, at least I think Iwould be that way.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, because it's not only a sport, it's not only
athletic, but you have toconnect it to your own
emotionality in order to expressthe vision of the piece,
because it is artistic, it's art.
So it's this interestingcombination between art and
athleticism, and she haswonderful teachers there that I
(01:47):
just love.
It's like a family.
I can't wait for you to justmeet this dynamic woman who has
done so much.
She's written a book, sheteaches many different things,
she's been a life coach.
She is such an integral part ofthis community and she will
share so much of herself withyou and with our listeners on
this podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You're not overselling her.
I read her bio on the websiteand I was like she's done a lot
so we can't list it all, butwe'll talk specifically about
dance and maybe some othertopics with her on this
interview.
So I'm looking forward tomeeting her, and I guess
everybody else's too.
Welcome, kathy.
(02:29):
Welcome to Lost in Jersey.
It's nice to have you on.
It's nice to meet you because Idon't know you but Rachel does.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's so great to be on.
I'm thrilled to be invited tobe part of Lost in Jersey and,
yes, I know Rachel for manyyears and it's wonderful to meet
you, jeanette, let's learn howyou two met.
I'll start and then you canchime in Rach, Many, many years
ago.
Rachel has three beautifuldaughters, all who have danced
with me, and the youngest, June,is currently still a student at
(02:55):
DanceWorks Studios.
And I want to say, Rach, howold were the girls when?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I would say Ellie was in kindergarten.
Yeah, like five, right.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I thought, okay and then.
So Bridget would have beenpre-K.
Yeah, and then June was like anewborn.
So June started the youngestbecause she just would be the
little blob that I'd bring in topick up the other two.
So as soon as she could walkaround and be the youngest in
(03:30):
one of Kathy's classes, she wasthere.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
She was in her D2.
Which is age three.
So June, yes, since age threeso it's been many years.
So that's how Rachel and I metat DanceWorks Studios.
Wow, that's 15 years.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So 15 years Now.
I'm imagining that a lot haschanged over that and I think we
want to get to that.
But I also I was telling Rachelthat I looked at your bio and I
was like, wow, this woman hasdone a ton.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your background, like
where'd you grow up and how'dyou get into dance?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
All of the things?
Yes, so I am a Jersey girl,born and raised in Hudson County
, north Bergen, new Jersey,right outside of the Lincoln
Tunnel, and when I was aboutfour or five I sparked an
interest in dance and I began tostudy at a really, really
strict Russian ballet school andI was studying ballet only for
(04:22):
about three days a week with anincredibly wonderful ballet
male-female couple who own thestudio.
And when I tell you strict, itwas so incredibly strict.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What does that mean?
It's like your toe is wrong.
Your toe is wrong, you know.
Yeah, well, it was a reallystrict dress code.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Ironically not on purpose, but the color of my
sweater you had to wear a lightblue leotard, pink tights, light
blue skirt, hair in a perfectbun For every single class.
You were not permitted into thestudio unless you were properly
dressed and hair in a bun.
And then, throughout the class,one of the teachers so it was a
husband and wife team andsomeone would constantly be
(05:03):
walking around the studioassessing every single student
and making sure their alignmentwas proper and all the things
were in alignment.
So I did that as a young childand then when I got to I want to
say, middle school, sixth gradealthough, yeah, my teacher
happened to open my grammarschool teacher happened to open
(05:24):
a dance studio right around thecorner from my grammar school,
and so that opened the door tojazz and tap for me.
But the truth of the matter isthe first year with her, I only
studied ballet again.
So it was like ballet, ballet,it was the ballet world.
And then it was my mom, afterthe first show, who said to me
(05:44):
oh, I think you should take jazzand tap.
And I was like OK, cool, thenauditioned for college programs,
went to Montclair StateUniversity and majored in dance.
While there, I went to ColoradoCollege and studied with Bill
Evans Dance Company at a danceintensive at Colorado College
and got to perform at a greatperformance venue there, and
(06:04):
then wrapping back up atMontclair State University
earning my dance degree.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Wow, so you've been dancing since you can remember.
I mean, it's like that has been.
Was there a break at any point,that you were like I'm going to
take a break, or has it justbeen constant dance?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Absolutely not no break.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Wow, what about now?
What about now, do you?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
dance every day.
I think I am working andteaching more than I ever had in
my entire life, and that's likefor me to swallow that and
think that, that if you wouldhave asked me that 10 years ago,
I wouldn't have said that.
And that's with me all throughcollege, where I danced, you
know, every day.
(06:46):
For four years I was alsomanaging a health club.
I was also teaching all throughcollege at different venues and
appearing as a guest artist.
So teaching has been a part ofme since I can remember,
although I didn't know that wasmy career path.
To be completely transparent, Ithought my career path was this
(07:08):
Go to college, get your dancedegree and then perform
professionally for five yearsand then have a child.
But the universe showed me adifferent way and it's been one
of the biggest blessings in mylife.
So graduated college in May,got married in September and
then found out I was 12 weekspregnant in December.
(07:29):
Decided then okay, I don't wantto be the mom that's performing
professionally and all over theworld and not getting to be a
mom.
So I decided to continueteaching and then it's just led
me down this incredible pathwhich I would have never, ever
thought that that was the path,although I always loved teaching
(07:52):
.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's wild, I mean, it's also so incredible because
what you've also instilled inyour son is this giving back and
taking care of other people aswell, and this teaching and
creating and nurturing andcommunity.
And I just think of you as sucha big asset and voice in our
(08:17):
community.
Do you feel like the dancecommunity gave you that?
Your mom, I know, is so, I knowher, I've met her like that.
She instilled that, met herlike that.
She instilled that in you, likethat through line.
How do you feel that?
You, how?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
is that also a part of you?
So when I was at MontclairState University, I was teaching
at a local studio in Montclairat the same time and performing,
and then began to performprofessionally.
And I actually if I'm going tocompare community and Kathy, I
will say this I fell in lovewith Montclair.
So while I was in college Imade a commitment to myself, by
(08:51):
the time my son was five, that Iwould move to Montclair, no
matter what, because I had toraise him in Montclair, like
that was just a thing right.
And so I did and Montclairbecame this community that I
embraced because I loved it somuch.
And then it embraced me forwhat I did and the work that I
(09:15):
continue to do with the childrenof Montclair, which I could
probably cry right now.
But because it's been such ablessing I think, full circle
blessing I got to raise my sonin this community that is so
diverse and so open, right toreally letting our children
explore and find their way, andI believe that to also be true
(09:38):
for artistic people in thecommunity as well.
I feel like we are embraced andwe are supported and we are in
a community where people arereally feel like we are embraced
and we are supported and we arein a community where people are
really loyal, like loyal ifwhat you are providing is
valuable.
And for me that all sums upcommunity and DanceWorks Studios
.
To me, not because I'mDanceWorks Studios, but because
(10:01):
I believe that we have such acommunity at DanceWorks Studios.
Like such a community, it is sobeautiful, it is so valuable
and I don't know if it existsanywhere else in the world.
I would challenge that anywhereelse in the world.
We're special.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I do think it's so amazing when we, like the
parents, have each other's backs, the like, just reaching out if
anyone's kid is sick or anyoneneeds a pickup or a drop off or
this or that or a question abouta doctor or like it's.
We're so involved in every partof each other's lives, like I
(10:37):
think I even told you, jeanette,that Kathy diagnosed June with
Lyme disease just she was like Ithink she should test for Lyme.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And she had it yeah, and you.
We were talking about that andwe were talking about how you
have a different you you're.
You probably play the part tosome extent as another parent to
percent I still.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So I have this instinctive thing in me.
I don't know what it is, but Ihave diagnosed so many children,
from medical conditions to tornligaments, and also wanted to
become a chiropractor because Iso love everything about anatomy
(11:27):
and the physical body andfunctional medicine.
So my passion in those areas, Ithink, have also led me to
really work with my children, mystudents, on an individual
basis, right, like, really, youknow, I get to see them a lot,
and especially those that havebeen with me, like, think about
it, if a child starts with me asa toddler and they stay with me
till they're 18, I see themthrough every single phase of
(11:51):
their childhood, right, so I cannotice like, oh, this child is
moving differently or actingdifferently or looks differently
in a way that isn't healthy orin a way that let's check this
out.
And because I've had thesechildren parents trust, so if I
call and say, hey, rachel, let'sdo this because I think maybe
(12:13):
and maybe I'm wrong and that'sokay, right, but yeah, and so,
in terms of, they do call meMama Kath, and just recently
Rachel's oldest daughter, ellie,was, I want to say, in Puerto
Rico.
She was somewhere traveling andI get this random text from her
like hey.
Kath Prince is on and I'mthinking of you and, like these
(12:34):
are the things that happen, butconstantly in my world.
So I am still in touch.
I go to every wedding of aDanceWorks student.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Wow, that's a lot of weddings I have traveled to
Puerto Rico.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I've traveled to California and all over Montauk
every wedding baby shower.
I am the sponsor to two dancersat DanceWorks Studios who are
now alumni girls.
Just two weeks ago I had analumni over with her two sons.
Just because, like at the lastminute, I really need a Mama
Kath visit, come over with theboys, so their children are like
(13:08):
my heart and soul.
Yeah, it's really, it's dance,dance, dance and then it's dance
, plus, plus, plus, plus.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, something that you talked about earlier, about
how you started in a very strictdance studio.
How you started in a verystrict dance studio.
I'm curious about the changesover generations and not only by
the instructor style that haschanged in teaching dance but,
also the kids and the parentsand what you have seen over this
(13:37):
evolution and where we aretoday compared to where we were.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I think what happened was because my training
was so strict in the beginning,right, and then when my
training opened up and I got toexplore other genres, it didn't
have that same strictness to it.
It had a little more fluidityto it, a little more openness to
it, and that's what spoke to mein terms of the teacher that I
(14:04):
wanted to become.
One thing that has been areally big difference in
students and parenting over my27 years of owning DanceWorks
Studios.
I would have to say that myparents and not that they don't
now, but my parents that know meor have longevity with me have
(14:25):
1,000% trusted the process.
But the newer generation ofstudents and the younger parents
coming in kind of question allthings.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Everything, In everything.
It's that way, right yeah, ineverything, In everything.
It's that way, right yeah, ineverything.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
In everything and I see it as a disservice to the
children because I think it'sour job as teachers and mentors
and parents this is just myopinion okay to teach our
children that you have to followthe rules, there are boundaries
and there are rewards.
If you do the X, y and the Zand it is your choice, it is
(15:07):
always your choice right.
So if you choose differently,then there is an outcome to that
choice.
But you have to own thatoutcome and not run to mommy or
daddy to defend you in thatoutcome.
And then, as a parent andmentor, teacher, I think it's
also our job to give thesechildren the tools to deal with
that.
(15:27):
Disappointment is a part of life.
It's going to happen over andover and over again.
No, is a part of life.
It is going to happen over andover again.
If we aren't teaching them theskills and putting in the tools
to pull out and say this is amoment, this is temporary, this
feels really bad right now, butI can get through this, then
(15:51):
it's a disservice to ourchildren, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
You're speaking our language.
I mean, I think right, jeanette.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yes Also.
You know, I think we've allgone through the wave of
everybody gets a trophy.
You know We've all gone throughthese testing, these new styles
.
You know, and we havecontributed to what is going on
today by our own.
You know how we did it.
(16:18):
You know we're like oh, you know, don't you know?
And now we are in a new phase,I think of like okay, maybe
there's some overcorrection orundercorrection.
I mean I don't know.
I think that all of this isjust a journey of human nature,
of how we were supposed tointeract and feel and everything
.
But it's very interesting tosee it from your standpoint as
(16:39):
somebody who deals with a sportthat Rachel and I were talking
about this earlier.
That's emotional and physical.
You were probably getting boththe physical extremeness of like
what people need to match to begreat, you know, but also the
emotional breakdown.
Rachel was saying earlier, youhave to connect emotionally to
(17:00):
be a dancer as well the artistrypart of it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And then when you're trying to connect to the music
and to convey what thechoreographer wants you to
convey, to be a good dancer, youcould do all the moves
perfectly, but if you're notconnected emotionally, the
audience won't feel anything.
And then you're getting to feeltheir emotional breakdown,
their physical breakdown.
(17:23):
You get the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The whole picture all day long, every day, all day
long, which leads me to aquestion that's kind of maybe
you know, maybe I should haveasked you beforehand is like is
does that?
Have you had certain thingslike this happen that you're
incredibly proud of havingwatched a kid go through this?
You know these steps of youknow, and then you were able to
(17:49):
guide them and then see the endresult in such a positive manner
.
Is there an event that youremember like that?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So there are several students that throughout the
years, like, let's call it theirsenior year of dance.
So they've worked like theirentire childhood and call it
their senior year of dance.
So they've worked like theirentire childhood and now it's
senior year, and this is theiryear, and they get injured and
it's serious injuries.
Right, it's torn ACLs, it's aserious foot tear where.
Then guess what Senior year nowbecomes and looks very
(18:17):
different.
So one particular instance I canthink of that was devastating,
but I was determined, no matterwhat, to get this child on stage
was one of my seniors, wasdancing.
It was actually the.
It was one of the COVID yearsand we did an outdoor concert
and one of my dancers at theMontclair high school dance
(18:38):
concert, right during theperformance, tore her her ACL
and I went flying down, likeflying down to where she was and
I was like it's a torn ACL.
I don't want to say it, butit's a torn ACL, we'll come to.
That was like two weeks beforeour show and she was, of course,
devastated.
So I said, sweetheart, we aregoing to make this work.
(18:59):
I said, if you are willing, wewill do.
And we did and there wasn't adry eye in the audience.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I remember that show it worked.
I mean, was it just throughphysical?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
therapy.
We took a chair.
The chair was incorporated intothe choreography and then, like
other dancers would come overand touch her hands and she, oh
God, I remember it.
It was so good and it was.
You know it was and everybodywas on board right, because, oh
(19:31):
my God, so it happened to be andit was.
Also, we were all emotionalbecause we had been teaching
virtually for so long.
And then we were like graduallyback in the studio, right, and
then I was like determined tohave a concert and we did this
amazing.
We pulled off this amazingoutdoor venue, brought in Guns
N' Roses stage from like.
(19:51):
Massachusetts and have thisoutdoor performance, and so
there was no way that, like thisinjured dancer wasn't going to
have the opportunity to perform,and that was a very like,
pivotal and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Well, I mean also that they'regoing to everybody that was in
that you know event is going totake that kind of problem
solving, you know solution withthem for the rest of their life.
Okay, this is a disaster.
Cheers everyone, correct, youknow like there's a way out of
this Always, always, there'salways a way out.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
And that's I mean.
Isn't there it is.
That's the lesson, too forchildren, right?
There is always another way,and that's what I try telling
them a lot of the times too.
Like there's always another way.
It's never one way, right,there's always another way,
right?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, I mean, like you said, for your own self, you
had a plan and then it changed.
You know, and I think a lot, alot of times, I think that
people who are in dance that's avery short career you have to,
you know, as soon as you get out.
You've got to know you'reeither going to do it or you're
going to do something else.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So I think what's nice like now that I have, now
that Ellie is a second year atcollege, that it's nice to see
that when it's in you and youlove it so much you can find a
way to do it, in whatevercapacity.
You can always find a place todance and meet other dancers.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Well, you can come back to it as an adult too,
right?
Yeah absolutely Don't you teachadult classes.
You know, yeah, yeah, don't youteach adult classes.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And Rachel, you're a big dancer.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Once a dancer, like always a dancer.
It's in your soul, it's in yourheart, it's in your cells and
your blood.
It's just like in you, evenwhen, like once a month, we do
an adult dance class at thestudio and parents will, like,
moms, will come up to me, like Idon't know, I'm like just come,
like just move your body, it'sgood.
(21:45):
And then they all, every one ofthem, oh my God, that was the
greatest thing I've ever done.
It felt so good.
And I'm like, see, you just haveto like again, right, find the
courage, surrender and, you know, put the ego far away and just
be like I just want to move.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I just want to move.
I just want to move my body.
I have a really kind of outthere question for you, because
I know it's crazy.
Go, jeanette, I'm assuming thatyour heart rate is very low.
I mean beats per minute.
Are you like like at two orsomething?
Because I mean, if you are likedancing every day for the your
whole, I mean, are you just thehealthiest dancing every day for
your whole?
I mean, are you just the?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
healthiest.
So my heart rate is really low,but even lower than that is my
blood pressure.
So this is like.
This is a funny tidbit.
So we were speaking a shorttime ago about the community at
Danceworks and Rachel hadmentioned like the doctors and
this and that.
So we do have this likeincredible nest of amazing
doctors, which so many of themare mine, and my blood pressure
(22:44):
was so low in the hospitalseveral months ago and Michelle
Kim, who is a DanceWorks mom,came to visit me in the hospital
and they were the nurses werelike oh, it's so low, it's
critical, it's critical.
And Michelle was like no, no,no, you're fine, I'm like, I
know, I know I'm fine, but youknow, yes, so you're like I'm a
dancer.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm good.
Of course it's low.
I'm like can you?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
guys just leave the room for a minute and come back
in.
They're like what do you mean?
I go just leave.
And they left and I got up andI started doing jumping jacks
running around the room.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
They came back I said when I'm resting, my body's
like okay, it's resting, yeah,yeah, yeah, that's pretty
amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I wanted Kathy to also tell us about the Montclair
Dance Festival that's coming up.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So Montclair Dance Festival isbeing held at Montclair State
University this year.
There are going to be fourconcerts throughout the day.
There are going to be threedaytime shows, starting at like
2 pm and they will go likechronologically in order of
non-professional to professional, but it'll wrap up in the
evening with a professionalconcert in the theater.
(23:54):
So all the outdoor venueperformances will be in the
amphitheater.
So the first show will startoff with like studios and
pre-professional students, butteens.
So my dance company, danceworksCo, will perform in the daytime
venue show and the daytimevenue is all free.
So it's this amazing festival.
You can just come, hang out andit'll be like three hours in the
(24:17):
afternoon or so and then it'llmove into like pre-professional
companies and then emergingartists and a real genre of
dance throughout the state ofNew Jersey, and then the evening
performance will culminate andthat you'll purchase a ticket
for and that'll be in thetheater and all professional
dance companies from Jersey willbe performing in the evening
(24:38):
concert as well.
And it's really exciting becauseyou know, as you all know, in
Montclair we have the JazzFestival, the Film Festival, and
we just were, like you know.
So Free Space Dance.
Donna Skro and Lisa Grimes, whoare personal friends of mine,
who we've all danced together incollege, and so on and so forth
, are the dance company behindthis supporting this and feeding
(25:00):
and fueling this, and itcompany behind this supporting
this and feeding and fuelingthis, and it'll be Saturday, may
31st, and we hope to get agreat turnout.
It is, you know, it's like thebirth of a new child, so you
have to also be realistic insaying you know it takes time to
build things and for people toeven know about it.
But yeah, but we're superexcited about it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, that's exciting A new festival kicking off.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's going to be awesome.
I'm very excited.
So I'm excited about that and,yeah, that should be a really
really fun opportunity forartists locally, as well as all
spectators.
I think it'll be a really funday.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I feel like there's been a resurgence with social
media and TikTok, dancing andstuff with an interest in
dancing.
Do you see that over in thelast decade?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So, yeah, I think, to be really honest with you, I
think so much of it started likewithin the last decade with all
the television shows that, likenow, have dance, so you think
you can dance.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Correct, so you think you can dance.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, and what's the other one with the couples?
Oh my gosh, can't think of them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Dancing with the Stars, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just
think, like the research, I justthink, right, like you all just
said before, even for you, rach, like seeing the girls come
home with red, rosy cheeks orwhatever then you go see dance.
If you go see live dance, youleave and you're so uplifted and
you're like, oh my God, thatwas so good and hopefully you
felt something and it moved youand your soul.
(26:21):
And I know Rachel's like me, wecry like that, but then it
makes you want more dance, right?
So I think that has reallyopened.
I am not a TikTok person, Idon't have it, I don't watch it,
but yes, the kids do, the youthdoes.
I think it's totally inspiredthem as well, and them as well.
(26:45):
And I also just think, whenchildren find a home in dance,
where they know they are safeand protected, I think then it
also becomes a place they justwant to be.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, and especially, I think it's nice too, because
people are.
I know we could talk so muchabout society these days and all
of that, but kids are needinganother home besides home and if
it's not working with a team ora sport or a club, if it is
working with dance, it's areally lucky thing to just find
(27:13):
something somewhere that theycan feel like is a home.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's home.
Correct, 100%.
Yes, it's home.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Correct, 100%.
Yes, yes, kath, do you do anycompetitive dancing or like any
of that?
Would we see you in like adancing with the stars?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Oh, I don't know about that I've never been a
competitive dancer and my studiois not competitive, it's more
performance based.
Okay, and it's just myphilosophy to really train the
dancers technically and thenprovide them with really
incredible performanceopportunities.
So Danceworks Co has done somereally cool performance
(27:51):
opportunities we have done inthe past we have done Carnegie
Hall, we have done LincolnCenter, we have traveled
internationally and we haveperformed in London, barcelona,
italy twice, greece and 2026, wewill be going to Portugal.
We have been invited back forthe past 10 years now to be the
prelude performance for AlvinAiley at NJPAC, which is New
(28:13):
Jersey Performing Arts Center inNewark.
And in addition to that, Ithink it's really important for
my dance company girls, whichare all consistent of teens, to
understand the importance ofgiving back to the community.
So we also do nursing homes andretirement homes just so that
they can understand theimportance and the joy that it
(28:34):
brings to the elderly and it'salways been magical and really,
really special.
So that is like where I havekind of led my dancers and their
training.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And it really does imbue them with a love of dance,
but also it gives them, likeyou said, that community where
they're not competing with eachother, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Wow, imbued.
Imbued that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I don't know.
I feel imbued out.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I was looking for the word, it was the word Menopause
brain normally would take allof my words away.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I don't know why it gave me that one.
That's a good one.
Yeah, that's the thing right.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
It's like I train the girls at the studio.
Like we're not competing.
You're not competing with theperson to the right, the left,
in front or behind you.
You are competing with yourself.
Like be the best version of you.
Like do all the things you needto do to become better.
It doesn't matter if you're notlanding the double or triple
(29:41):
turn today.
Who cares?
Work at it it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
And then the rewards come Right.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So I think that that's the thing you know about
all of this.
For me is it's like I feel likeletting people know that you
know when they come in they'renot going to know it all,
they're not going to be thegreatest.
I'm sure that that's a reallyhard thing is to compare and
despair on the dance floor.
You know it's like I'm not them,and I think that's probably a
(30:10):
really a touchy part of thewhole process for you is like
how do you empower kids thatfeel less than and let them know
that they are going to be thebest, that they be the best that
you can be, and you always seethat probably the growth happens
, a growth happens.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's like a daily thing
, right, that's a daily thing atthe studio, where somebody will
always feel less than, or youknow, and again it's girls.
So girls are so emotional, theyjust come in with all of the
emotion all of the time, right,so the insecurities and the I'm
not good enough.
So my hope is that, you know, Isay this thing at DanceWorks
(30:49):
all the time which is like getthe funk out, right, and that's
what I think dance provides,like I think it's a form of
therapy.
I will take that to the highestlevel of anything in the world,
right, it is a healing tool ifyou allow it to be.
So, if you can get out of yourhead, like, if you can get out
of your head and get into yourheart and your soul and let the
(31:10):
movement and the music move you,then that stuff will kind of
dissipate and it'll fall intothe back and up front will be.
You know, what am I feelingwhen I'm doing this movement?
What am I doing when I'm doingthis movement, and so on and so
forth.
But, yes, that is a constantbattle.
I guess that's the right word.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
It's hard too, because you have the mirror
every day.
You have a mirror All day longevery day.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, that's right.
You know and think about me.
I've been standing in front ofthat mirror for 27 years, so to
see the physical changes in mybody, even though I worked so
hard at it every day.
And then even for that okay,kathy, accept this Like.
And then some days I'm like youknow, let's get real.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I'm like, oh man right, and then other days I'm
like hell yeah, you're a rockstar.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
But it's a lot right, it's that same thing.
It's that same thing.
And what's so funny to me is,like you know, I look at my
teens and to me they're like ohmy God, look at these beautiful
girls, like they're so beautiful.
And I'm not just talking aboutphysical, I'm talking about like
inside out Right.
And yet and we can relate, rightthey're not looking at that,
(32:23):
they're not seeing what we'reseeing.
And I didn't see it either,right Like when I look at
pictures from when I was atColorado college.
Most recently, my goddaughtergot married and her mom happens
to be one of my dearest friends,that we studied dance together
and she was showing me picturesand I was like who's that in the
blue bathing suit?
She's like that's you.
I'm like that is not me.
She's like, yes, it is.
I go, oh my God, I wish, I wishI knew that then.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah right, always, jeanette and I talk about this
too you look back at yourselfand you think why didn't I
appreciate that?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Right.
Well probably, if you did,you'd be insufferable.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Because we were like look at me, Look how good I am,
Like look at me in this bluebathing suit.
Holy shit, I'm amazing.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Correct, correct.
But I didn't know, I had noidea, right Last night, just
last night, the girls, all thegirls, you know 30 of them,
right?
So so figure that Right, andthat's just the teen company,
right?
I have to cost you four hundredand sixty seven other children,
ok, all girls.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I never heard you say the full number before.
Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah.
So my teens like put them, putthe 30 teenagers in a box.
Like I laugh when parents arelike oh, I took my teenager
clothing shopping and it was sohard.
I go ha ha, I can't imaginewhat I'm dealing with Right.
So then, like here's, here's theteens, you know, trying on
their things, and I laughbecause they'll say to me oh,
(33:47):
this is short.
And I'm like, really, have youseen yourself on social media?
Have you seen what you postedand what you actually put on
your body on social media?
Are you out of your mind?
And then they just giggle andlaugh at me because they're, I'm
like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I've seen what you post.
This is like 10 times longerthan that.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah yeah, hello, right, exactly so, but you know,
but it's different, right?
I guess it's different becausethey know they're moving in it
and I don't even know, it's justdifferent, but it's definitely
it's so.
you know, and I'm very I try tobe incredibly sensitive to all
the different body types and,and you know, I try really hard
(34:30):
to be sure that everything's inplace for them and they're
comfortable, because there'snothing worse to me than having
to go out and perform and not becomfortable in what's on my
physical body.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
I never, I never, am the personthat says they all have to wear
this, unless I have tried it onall of them and it works on all
(34:54):
of them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yes, that's rare, kathy, I know.
I know, I remember my kicklinedance team in high school got
all new.
We had the old school likemarching band wool.
In high school we had the oldschool marching band wool
uniforms that were a skirt butlike a normal length.
And then she was like we'regoing to get new uniforms.
(35:17):
And then all of a sudden theywere spandex and glittery and
like an ice skating skirt whichbarely covered your butt, and I
was in the bathroom crying.
I didn't want to come out andshe was like get out, you're
going to wear it.
If it's the last thing you do,you can step off this team.
Oh my God, those are momentsyou don't forget.
(35:37):
They're terrible, they'reterrible.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, they're terrible.
And I think, yeah, I think wealready feel what we feel, so
why are we going to make,especially a child, right?
Yeah yeah, I serve on the boardfor Dance New Jersey as well,
and so they performed at Show Upand Dance and that's another
whole New Jersey basedperformance.
Three directors came up to meand they said to me, how did you
(36:03):
do it?
And I said I don't know whatyou're talking about.
And they said how did you get20 teenage girls to not show a
bra strap to be so uniformed andbeautiful?
And I said, oh girl, you don'tknow how much time we spend on
that.
I'm like you bring the bra youthink you're going to wear to
the studio.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
And then that doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That does work.
That doesn't work.
That does work, you know?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, it's work, it's work, yeah it matters Right,
and so it's nice when somebodyelse's eyes, sees it and can
appreciate it for what it is.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Right, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, it's been a pleasure to meet you and learn
all about the back.
You know workings of the studioand your history, and these
kids are.
So these women, these ladies,these, you know they're so lucky
to have you and I didn't reallyrealize how much went into all
of it, so it's been eye-openingto me.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, it's been great .
Yeah, it's so nice to meet you,jeanette and Rachel.
I'm so glad we did this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm so glad you came on, kathy, and I'm just glad
that everybody gets to hear whatan incredible person you are
and thank you, I'm just gratefulthat all my girls have had time
with you.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
The best.
And when?
When Rachel's family moved fora short bit to Amsterdam.
Yes, he came to Danceworks tosay our goodbyes.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh my God that was terrible we sobbed.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
But you need to know, rach, that we sobbed, we sobbed
, that my orange elephant thatBridget gifted me that day, sits
in my home and I see it everyday when I walk through my front
door and I think of my Bridgetgirl.
Oh my gosh, that's really sweet.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm so glad, I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And my elephant, my elephant that you guys brought
back from.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
India.
Right, that's how dance workson the desk.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, yeah, that lives on the desk.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, I know we're always thinking about you
wherever we are.
It's true, it's so nice, it'slongevity.
Right, it's true, it's eitherit could be a restaurant a
(38:31):
person, a place, a thing, anidea, but something that you
just love about New Jersey, theJersey Shore.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Gotta love the Jersey Shore.
Yeah, I mean, I was born andraised at the Jersey Shore.
So, it's really such a part ofmy life and my summer and I'm a
summer baby, so I just love theJersey Shore.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Kathy oh my gosh, thank you so much.
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Thank you, Kathy.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Thank you, bye, ladies, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
Hey Rachel, hey Jeanette, Today we have a great
interview with Kathy CostaMcEwen, a woman who is near and
dear to my heart and my wholefamilies because she is the
artistic director, achoreographer and owner of
DanceWorks Studios, which is adance studio on Grove Street in
Montclair, new Jersey.
But that is not all she does.
(00:20):
She does so many things.
She started this studio areally long time ago and it
takes kids from as young as, Ithink, three years old We'll ask
her to confirm all the way upthrough high school.
She it's a very inclusivestudio.
It's not a competition dancestudio, and she can explain the
difference between the two andhow she really nurtures these
(00:42):
kids all throughout every stageof growth, basically Like the
life cycle of a child, I wouldimagine that you have to be
somewhat of like a second mom insome ways.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, you know to these kids because they're so
young and they're you know,developing and even when they're
teens and stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So I think and she sees things that teachers don't
even see, because she gets themevery single year.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I would imagine also because dance is such an intense
sport that you also get thatemotional breakdown and
sometimes need to be there tonurture them, because other
things might come out at thattime when they're like I can't
do this and I can't do that.
I mean, at least I think Iwould be that way.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, because it's not only a sport, it's not only
athletic, but you have toconnect it to your own
emotionality in order to expressthe vision of the piece,
because it is artistic, it's art.
So it's this interestingcombination between art and
athleticism, and she haswonderful teachers there that I
(01:47):
just love.
It's like a family.
I can't wait for you to justmeet this dynamic woman who has
done so much.
She's written a book, sheteaches many different things,
she's been a life coach.
She is such an integral part ofthis community and she will
share so much of herself withyou and with our listeners on
this podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You're not overselling her.
I read her bio on the websiteand I was like she's done a lot
so we can't list it all, butwe'll talk specifically about
dance and maybe some othertopics with her on this
interview.
So I'm looking forward tomeeting her, and I guess
everybody else's too.
Welcome, kathy.
(02:29):
Welcome to Lost in Jersey.
It's nice to have you on.
It's nice to meet you because Idon't know you but Rachel does.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It's so great to be on.
I'm thrilled to be invited tobe part of Lost in Jersey and,
yes, I know Rachel for manyyears and it's wonderful to meet
you, jeanette, let's learn howyou two met.
I'll start and then you canchime in Rach, Many, many years
ago.
Rachel has three beautifuldaughters, all who have danced
with me, and the youngest, June,is currently still a student at
(02:55):
DanceWorks Studios.
And I want to say, Rach, howold were the girls when?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I would say Ellie was in kindergarten.
Yeah, like five, right.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
I thought, okay and then.
So Bridget would have beenpre-K.
Yeah, and then June was like anewborn.
So June started the youngestbecause she just would be the
little blob that I'd bring in topick up the other two.
So as soon as she could walkaround and be the youngest in
(03:30):
one of Kathy's classes, she wasthere.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
She was in her D2.
Which is age three.
So June, yes, since age threeso it's been many years.
So that's how Rachel and I metat DanceWorks Studios.
Wow, that's 15 years.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So 15 years Now.
I'm imagining that a lot haschanged over that and I think we
want to get to that.
But I also I was telling Rachelthat I looked at your bio and I
was like, wow, this woman hasdone a ton.
So can you tell us a little bitabout your background, like
where'd you grow up and how'dyou get into dance?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
All of the things?
Yes, so I am a Jersey girl,born and raised in Hudson County
, north Bergen, new Jersey,right outside of the Lincoln
Tunnel, and when I was aboutfour or five I sparked an
interest in dance and I began tostudy at a really, really
strict Russian ballet school andI was studying ballet only for
(04:22):
about three days a week with anincredibly wonderful ballet
male-female couple who own thestudio.
And when I tell you strict, itwas so incredibly strict.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What does that mean?
It's like your toe is wrong.
Your toe is wrong, you know.
Yeah, well, it was a reallystrict dress code.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Ironically not on purpose, but the color of my
sweater you had to wear a lightblue leotard, pink tights, light
blue skirt, hair in a perfectbun For every single class.
You were not permitted into thestudio unless you were properly
dressed and hair in a bun.
And then, throughout the class,one of the teachers so it was a
husband and wife team andsomeone would constantly be
(05:03):
walking around the studioassessing every single student
and making sure their alignmentwas proper and all the things
were in alignment.
So I did that as a young childand then when I got to I want to
say, middle school, sixth gradealthough, yeah, my teacher
happened to open my grammarschool teacher happened to open
(05:24):
a dance studio right around thecorner from my grammar school,
and so that opened the door tojazz and tap for me.
But the truth of the matter isthe first year with her, I only
studied ballet again.
So it was like ballet, ballet,it was the ballet world.
And then it was my mom, afterthe first show, who said to me
(05:44):
oh, I think you should take jazzand tap.
And I was like OK, cool, thenauditioned for college programs,
went to Montclair StateUniversity and majored in dance.
While there, I went to ColoradoCollege and studied with Bill
Evans Dance Company at a danceintensive at Colorado College
and got to perform at a greatperformance venue there, and
(06:04):
then wrapping back up atMontclair State University
earning my dance degree.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Wow, so you've been dancing since you can remember.
I mean, it's like that has been.
Was there a break at any point,that you were like I'm going to
take a break, or has it justbeen constant dance?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Absolutely not no break.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Wow, what about now?
What about now, do you?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
dance every day.
I think I am working andteaching more than I ever had in
my entire life, and that's likefor me to swallow that and
think that, that if you wouldhave asked me that 10 years ago,
I wouldn't have said that.
And that's with me all throughcollege, where I danced, you
know, every day.
(06:46):
For four years I was alsomanaging a health club.
I was also teaching all throughcollege at different venues and
appearing as a guest artist.
So teaching has been a part ofme since I can remember,
although I didn't know that wasmy career path.
To be completely transparent, Ithought my career path was this
(07:08):
Go to college, get your dancedegree and then perform
professionally for five yearsand then have a child.
But the universe showed me adifferent way and it's been one
of the biggest blessings in mylife.
So graduated college in May,got married in September and
then found out I was 12 weekspregnant in December.
(07:29):
Decided then okay, I don't wantto be the mom that's performing
professionally and all over theworld and not getting to be a
mom.
So I decided to continueteaching and then it's just led
me down this incredible pathwhich I would have never, ever
thought that that was the path,although I always loved teaching
(07:52):
.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's wild, I mean, it's also so incredible because
what you've also instilled inyour son is this giving back and
taking care of other people aswell, and this teaching and
creating and nurturing andcommunity.
And I just think of you as sucha big asset and voice in our
(08:17):
community.
Do you feel like the dancecommunity gave you that?
Your mom, I know, is so, I knowher, I've met her like that.
She instilled that, met herlike that.
She instilled that in you, likethat through line.
How do you feel that?
You, how?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
is that also a part of you?
So when I was at MontclairState University, I was teaching
at a local studio in Montclairat the same time and performing,
and then began to performprofessionally.
And I actually if I'm going tocompare community and Kathy, I
will say this I fell in lovewith Montclair.
So while I was in college Imade a commitment to myself, by
(08:51):
the time my son was five, that Iwould move to Montclair, no
matter what, because I had toraise him in Montclair, like
that was just a thing right.
And so I did and Montclairbecame this community that I
embraced because I loved it somuch.
And then it embraced me forwhat I did and the work that I
(09:15):
continue to do with the childrenof Montclair, which I could
probably cry right now.
But because it's been such ablessing I think, full circle
blessing I got to raise my sonin this community that is so
diverse and so open, right toreally letting our children
explore and find their way, andI believe that to also be true
(09:38):
for artistic people in thecommunity as well.
I feel like we are embraced andwe are supported and we are in
a community where people arereally feel like we are embraced
and we are supported and we arein a community where people are
really loyal, like loyal ifwhat you are providing is
valuable.
And for me that all sums upcommunity and DanceWorks Studios
.
To me, not because I'mDanceWorks Studios, but because
(10:01):
I believe that we have such acommunity at DanceWorks Studios.
Like such a community, it is sobeautiful, it is so valuable
and I don't know if it existsanywhere else in the world.
I would challenge that anywhereelse in the world.
We're special.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I do think it's so amazing when we, like the
parents, have each other's backs, the like, just reaching out if
anyone's kid is sick or anyoneneeds a pickup or a drop off or
this or that or a question abouta doctor or like it's.
We're so involved in every partof each other's lives, like I
(10:37):
think I even told you, jeanette,that Kathy diagnosed June with
Lyme disease just she was like Ithink she should test for Lyme.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And she had it yeah, and you.
We were talking about that andwe were talking about how you
have a different you you're.
You probably play the part tosome extent as another parent to
percent I still.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
So I have this instinctive thing in me.
I don't know what it is, but Ihave diagnosed so many children,
from medical conditions to tornligaments, and also wanted to
become a chiropractor because Iso love everything about anatomy
(11:27):
and the physical body andfunctional medicine.
So my passion in those areas, Ithink, have also led me to
really work with my children, mystudents, on an individual
basis, right, like, really, youknow, I get to see them a lot,
and especially those that havebeen with me, like, think about
it, if a child starts with me asa toddler and they stay with me
till they're 18, I see themthrough every single phase of
(11:51):
their childhood, right, so I cannotice like, oh, this child is
moving differently or actingdifferently or looks differently
in a way that isn't healthy orin a way that let's check this
out.
And because I've had thesechildren parents trust, so if I
call and say, hey, rachel, let'sdo this because I think maybe
(12:13):
and maybe I'm wrong and that'sokay, right, but yeah, and so,
in terms of, they do call meMama Kath, and just recently
Rachel's oldest daughter, ellie,was, I want to say, in Puerto
Rico.
She was somewhere traveling andI get this random text from her
like hey.
Kath Prince is on and I'mthinking of you and, like these
(12:34):
are the things that happen, butconstantly in my world.
So I am still in touch.
I go to every wedding of aDanceWorks student.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Wow, that's a lot of weddings I have traveled to
Puerto Rico.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I've traveled to California and all over Montauk
every wedding baby shower.
I am the sponsor to two dancersat DanceWorks Studios who are
now alumni girls.
Just two weeks ago I had analumni over with her two sons.
Just because, like at the lastminute, I really need a Mama
Kath visit, come over with theboys, so their children are like
(13:08):
my heart and soul.
Yeah, it's really, it's dance,dance, dance and then it's dance
, plus, plus, plus, plus.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Well, something that you talked about earlier, about
how you started in a very strictdance studio.
How you started in a verystrict dance studio.
I'm curious about the changesover generations and not only by
the instructor style that haschanged in teaching dance but,
also the kids and the parentsand what you have seen over this
(13:37):
evolution and where we aretoday compared to where we were.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I think what happened was because my training
was so strict in the beginning,right, and then when my
training opened up and I got toexplore other genres, it didn't
have that same strictness to it.
It had a little more fluidityto it, a little more openness to
it, and that's what spoke to mein terms of the teacher that I
(14:04):
wanted to become.
One thing that has been areally big difference in
students and parenting over my27 years of owning DanceWorks
Studios.
I would have to say that myparents and not that they don't
now, but my parents that know meor have longevity with me have
(14:25):
1,000% trusted the process.
But the newer generation ofstudents and the younger parents
coming in kind of question allthings.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Everything, In everything.
It's that way, right yeah, ineverything, In everything.
It's that way, right yeah, ineverything.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
In everything and I see it as a disservice to the
children because I think it'sour job as teachers and mentors
and parents this is just myopinion okay to teach our
children that you have to followthe rules, there are boundaries
and there are rewards.
If you do the X, y and the Zand it is your choice, it is
(15:07):
always your choice right.
So if you choose differently,then there is an outcome to that
choice.
But you have to own thatoutcome and not run to mommy or
daddy to defend you in thatoutcome.
And then, as a parent andmentor, teacher, I think it's
also our job to give thesechildren the tools to deal with
that.
(15:27):
Disappointment is a part of life.
It's going to happen over andover and over again.
No, is a part of life.
It is going to happen over andover again.
If we aren't teaching them theskills and putting in the tools
to pull out and say this is amoment, this is temporary, this
feels really bad right now, butI can get through this, then
(15:51):
it's a disservice to ourchildren, in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
You're speaking our language.
I mean, I think right, jeanette.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean yes Also.
You know, I think we've allgone through the wave of
everybody gets a trophy.
You know We've all gone throughthese testing, these new styles
.
You know, and we havecontributed to what is going on
today by our own.
You know how we did it.
(16:18):
You know we're like oh, you know, don't you know?
And now we are in a new phase,I think of like okay, maybe
there's some overcorrection orundercorrection.
I mean I don't know.
I think that all of this isjust a journey of human nature,
of how we were supposed tointeract and feel and everything
.
But it's very interesting tosee it from your standpoint as
(16:39):
somebody who deals with a sportthat Rachel and I were talking
about this earlier.
That's emotional and physical.
You were probably getting boththe physical extremeness of like
what people need to match to begreat, you know, but also the
emotional breakdown.
Rachel was saying earlier, youhave to connect emotionally to
(17:00):
be a dancer as well the artistrypart of it.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And then when you're trying to connect to the music
and to convey what thechoreographer wants you to
convey, to be a good dancer, youcould do all the moves
perfectly, but if you're notconnected emotionally, the
audience won't feel anything.
And then you're getting to feeltheir emotional breakdown,
their physical breakdown.
(17:23):
You get the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The whole picture all day long, every day, all day
long, which leads me to aquestion that's kind of maybe
you know, maybe I should haveasked you beforehand is like is
does that?
Have you had certain thingslike this happen that you're
incredibly proud of havingwatched a kid go through this?
You know these steps of youknow, and then you were able to
(17:49):
guide them and then see the endresult in such a positive manner
.
Is there an event that youremember like that?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So there are several students that throughout the
years, like, let's call it theirsenior year of dance.
So they've worked like theirentire childhood and call it
their senior year of dance.
So they've worked like theirentire childhood and now it's
senior year, and this is theiryear, and they get injured and
it's serious injuries.
Right, it's torn ACLs, it's aserious foot tear where.
Then guess what Senior year nowbecomes and looks very
(18:17):
different.
So one particular instance I canthink of that was devastating,
but I was determined, no matterwhat, to get this child on stage
was one of my seniors, wasdancing.
It was actually the.
It was one of the COVID yearsand we did an outdoor concert
and one of my dancers at theMontclair high school dance
(18:38):
concert, right during theperformance, tore her her ACL
and I went flying down, likeflying down to where she was and
I was like it's a torn ACL.
I don't want to say it, butit's a torn ACL, we'll come to.
That was like two weeks beforeour show and she was, of course,
devastated.
So I said, sweetheart, we aregoing to make this work.
(18:59):
I said, if you are willing, wewill do.
And we did and there wasn't adry eye in the audience.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I remember that show it worked.
I mean, was it just throughphysical?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
therapy.
We took a chair.
The chair was incorporated intothe choreography and then, like
other dancers would come overand touch her hands and she, oh
God, I remember it.
It was so good and it was.
You know it was and everybodywas on board right, because, oh
(19:31):
my God, so it happened to be andit was.
Also, we were all emotionalbecause we had been teaching
virtually for so long.
And then we were like graduallyback in the studio, right, and
then I was like determined tohave a concert and we did this
amazing.
We pulled off this amazingoutdoor venue, brought in Guns
N' Roses stage from like.
(19:51):
Massachusetts and have thisoutdoor performance, and so
there was no way that, like thisinjured dancer wasn't going to
have the opportunity to perform,and that was a very like,
pivotal and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Well, I mean also that they'regoing to everybody that was in
that you know event is going totake that kind of problem
solving, you know solution withthem for the rest of their life.
Okay, this is a disaster.
Cheers everyone, correct, youknow like there's a way out of
this Always, always, there'salways a way out.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
And that's I mean.
Isn't there it is.
That's the lesson, too forchildren, right?
There is always another way,and that's what I try telling
them a lot of the times too.
Like there's always another way.
It's never one way, right,there's always another way,
right?
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Well, I mean, like you said, for your own self, you
had a plan and then it changed.
You know, and I think a lot, alot of times, I think that
people who are in dance that's avery short career you have to,
you know, as soon as you get out.
You've got to know you'reeither going to do it or you're
going to do something else.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So I think what's nice like now that I have, now
that Ellie is a second year atcollege, that it's nice to see
that when it's in you and youlove it so much you can find a
way to do it, in whatevercapacity.
You can always find a place todance and meet other dancers.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Well, you can come back to it as an adult too,
right?
Yeah absolutely Don't you teachadult classes.
You know, yeah, yeah, don't youteach adult classes.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And Rachel, you're a big dancer.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Once a dancer, like always a dancer.
It's in your soul, it's in yourheart, it's in your cells and
your blood.
It's just like in you, evenwhen, like once a month, we do
an adult dance class at thestudio and parents will, like,
moms, will come up to me, like Idon't know, I'm like just come,
like just move your body, it'sgood.
(21:45):
And then they all, every one ofthem, oh my God, that was the
greatest thing I've ever done.
It felt so good.
And I'm like, see, you just haveto like again, right, find the
courage, surrender and, you know, put the ego far away and just
be like I just want to move.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
I just want to move.
I just want to move my body.
I have a really kind of outthere question for you, because
I know it's crazy.
Go, jeanette, I'm assuming thatyour heart rate is very low.
I mean beats per minute.
Are you like like at two orsomething?
Because I mean, if you are likedancing every day for the your
whole, I mean, are you just thehealthiest dancing every day for
your whole?
I mean, are you just the?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
healthiest.
So my heart rate is really low,but even lower than that is my
blood pressure.
So this is like.
This is a funny tidbit.
So we were speaking a shorttime ago about the community at
Danceworks and Rachel hadmentioned like the doctors and
this and that.
So we do have this likeincredible nest of amazing
doctors, which so many of themare mine, and my blood pressure
(22:44):
was so low in the hospitalseveral months ago and Michelle
Kim, who is a DanceWorks mom,came to visit me in the hospital
and they were the nurses werelike oh, it's so low, it's
critical, it's critical.
And Michelle was like no, no,no, you're fine, I'm like, I
know, I know I'm fine, but youknow, yes, so you're like I'm a
dancer.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I'm good.
Of course it's low.
I'm like can you?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
guys just leave the room for a minute and come back
in.
They're like what do you mean?
I go just leave.
And they left and I got up andI started doing jumping jacks
running around the room.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
They came back I said when I'm resting, my body's
like okay, it's resting, yeah,yeah, yeah, that's pretty
amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I wanted Kathy to also tell us about the Montclair
Dance Festival that's coming up.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So Montclair Dance Festival isbeing held at Montclair State
University this year.
There are going to be fourconcerts throughout the day.
There are going to be threedaytime shows, starting at like
2 pm and they will go likechronologically in order of
non-professional to professional, but it'll wrap up in the
evening with a professionalconcert in the theater.
(23:54):
So all the outdoor venueperformances will be in the
amphitheater.
So the first show will startoff with like studios and
pre-professional students, butteens.
So my dance company, danceworksCo, will perform in the daytime
venue show and the daytimevenue is all free.
So it's this amazing festival.
You can just come, hang out andit'll be like three hours in the
(24:17):
afternoon or so and then it'llmove into like pre-professional
companies and then emergingartists and a real genre of
dance throughout the state ofNew Jersey, and then the evening
performance will culminate andthat you'll purchase a ticket
for and that'll be in thetheater and all professional
dance companies from Jersey willbe performing in the evening
(24:38):
concert as well.
And it's really exciting becauseyou know, as you all know, in
Montclair we have the JazzFestival, the Film Festival, and
we just were, like you know.
So Free Space Dance.
Donna Skro and Lisa Grimes, whoare personal friends of mine,
who we've all danced together incollege, and so on and so forth
, are the dance company behindthis supporting this and feeding
(25:00):
and fueling this, and itcompany behind this supporting
this and feeding and fuelingthis, and it'll be Saturday, may
31st, and we hope to get agreat turnout.
It is, you know, it's like thebirth of a new child, so you
have to also be realistic insaying you know it takes time to
build things and for people toeven know about it.
But yeah, but we're superexcited about it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, that's exciting A new festival kicking off.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
It's going to be awesome.
I'm very excited.
So I'm excited about that and,yeah, that should be a really
really fun opportunity forartists locally, as well as all
spectators.
I think it'll be a really funday.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I feel like there's been a resurgence with social
media and TikTok, dancing andstuff with an interest in
dancing.
Do you see that over in thelast decade?
Speaker 3 (25:44):
So, yeah, I think, to be really honest with you, I
think so much of it started likewithin the last decade with all
the television shows that, likenow, have dance, so you think
you can dance.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Correct, so you think you can dance.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, and what's the other one with the couples?
Oh my gosh, can't think of them.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Dancing with the Stars, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just
think, like the research, I justthink, right, like you all just
said before, even for you, rach, like seeing the girls come
home with red, rosy cheeks orwhatever then you go see dance.
If you go see live dance, youleave and you're so uplifted and
you're like, oh my God, thatwas so good and hopefully you
felt something and it moved youand your soul.
(26:21):
And I know Rachel's like me, wecry like that, but then it
makes you want more dance, right?
So I think that has reallyopened.
I am not a TikTok person, Idon't have it, I don't watch it,
but yes, the kids do, the youthdoes.
I think it's totally inspiredthem as well, and them as well.
(26:45):
And I also just think, whenchildren find a home in dance,
where they know they are safeand protected, I think then it
also becomes a place they justwant to be.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, and especially, I think it's nice too, because
people are.
I know we could talk so muchabout society these days and all
of that, but kids are needinganother home besides home and if
it's not working with a team ora sport or a club, if it is
working with dance, it's areally lucky thing to just find
(27:13):
something somewhere that theycan feel like is a home.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
It's home.
Correct, 100%.
Yes, it's home.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Correct, 100%.
Yes, yes, kath, do you do anycompetitive dancing or like any
of that?
Would we see you in like adancing with the stars?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Oh, I don't know about that I've never been a
competitive dancer and my studiois not competitive, it's more
performance based.
Okay, and it's just myphilosophy to really train the
dancers technically and thenprovide them with really
incredible performanceopportunities.
So Danceworks Co has done somereally cool performance
(27:51):
opportunities we have done inthe past we have done Carnegie
Hall, we have done LincolnCenter, we have traveled
internationally and we haveperformed in London, barcelona,
italy twice, greece and 2026, wewill be going to Portugal.
We have been invited back forthe past 10 years now to be the
prelude performance for AlvinAiley at NJPAC, which is New
(28:13):
Jersey Performing Arts Center inNewark.
And in addition to that, Ithink it's really important for
my dance company girls, whichare all consistent of teens, to
understand the importance ofgiving back to the community.
So we also do nursing homes andretirement homes just so that
they can understand theimportance and the joy that it
(28:34):
brings to the elderly and it'salways been magical and really,
really special.
So that is like where I havekind of led my dancers and their
training.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And it really does imbue them with a love of dance,
but also it gives them, likeyou said, that community where
they're not competing with eachother, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Wow, imbued.
Imbued that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
I don't know.
I feel imbued out.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I was looking for the word, it was the word Menopause
brain normally would take allof my words away.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I don't know why it gave me that one.
That's a good one.
Yeah, that's the thing right.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
It's like I train the girls at the studio.
Like we're not competing.
You're not competing with theperson to the right, the left,
in front or behind you.
You are competing with yourself.
Like be the best version of you.
Like do all the things you needto do to become better.
It doesn't matter if you're notlanding the double or triple
(29:41):
turn today.
Who cares?
Work at it it.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
And then the rewards come Right.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
So I think that that's the thing you know about
all of this.
For me is it's like I feel likeletting people know that you
know when they come in they'renot going to know it all,
they're not going to be thegreatest.
I'm sure that that's a reallyhard thing is to compare and
despair on the dance floor.
You know it's like I'm not them,and I think that's probably a
(30:10):
really a touchy part of thewhole process for you is like
how do you empower kids thatfeel less than and let them know
that they are going to be thebest, that they be the best that
you can be, and you always seethat probably the growth happens
, a growth happens.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's like a daily thing
, right, that's a daily thing atthe studio, where somebody will
always feel less than, or youknow, and again it's girls.
So girls are so emotional, theyjust come in with all of the
emotion all of the time, right,so the insecurities and the I'm
not good enough.
So my hope is that, you know, Isay this thing at DanceWorks
(30:49):
all the time which is like getthe funk out, right, and that's
what I think dance provides,like I think it's a form of
therapy.
I will take that to the highestlevel of anything in the world,
right, it is a healing tool ifyou allow it to be.
So, if you can get out of yourhead, like, if you can get out
of your head and get into yourheart and your soul and let the
(31:10):
movement and the music move you,then that stuff will kind of
dissipate and it'll fall intothe back and up front will be.
You know, what am I feelingwhen I'm doing this movement?
What am I doing when I'm doingthis movement, and so on and so
forth.
But, yes, that is a constantbattle.
I guess that's the right word.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
It's hard too, because you have the mirror
every day.
You have a mirror All day longevery day.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, that's right.
You know and think about me.
I've been standing in front ofthat mirror for 27 years, so to
see the physical changes in mybody, even though I worked so
hard at it every day.
And then even for that okay,kathy, accept this Like.
And then some days I'm like youknow, let's get real.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
I'm like, oh man right, and then other days I'm
like hell yeah, you're a rockstar.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
But it's a lot right, it's that same thing.
It's that same thing.
And what's so funny to me is,like you know, I look at my
teens and to me they're like ohmy God, look at these beautiful
girls, like they're so beautiful.
And I'm not just talking aboutphysical, I'm talking about like
inside out Right.
And yet and we can relate, rightthey're not looking at that,
(32:23):
they're not seeing what we'reseeing.
And I didn't see it either,right Like when I look at
pictures from when I was atColorado college.
Most recently, my goddaughtergot married and her mom happens
to be one of my dearest friends,that we studied dance together
and she was showing me picturesand I was like who's that in the
blue bathing suit?
She's like that's you.
I'm like that is not me.
She's like, yes, it is.
I go, oh my God, I wish, I wishI knew that then.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah right, always, jeanette and I talk about this
too you look back at yourselfand you think why didn't I
appreciate that?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Right.
Well probably, if you did,you'd be insufferable.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Because we were like look at me, Look how good I am,
Like look at me in this bluebathing suit.
Holy shit, I'm amazing.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Correct, correct.
But I didn't know, I had noidea, right Last night, just
last night, the girls, all thegirls, you know 30 of them,
right?
So so figure that Right, andthat's just the teen company,
right?
I have to cost you four hundredand sixty seven other children,
ok, all girls.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I never heard you say the full number before.
Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah.
So my teens like put them, putthe 30 teenagers in a box.
Like I laugh when parents arelike oh, I took my teenager
clothing shopping and it was sohard.
I go ha ha, I can't imaginewhat I'm dealing with Right.
So then, like here's, here's theteens, you know, trying on
their things, and I laughbecause they'll say to me oh,
(33:47):
this is short.
And I'm like, really, have youseen yourself on social media?
Have you seen what you postedand what you actually put on
your body on social media?
Are you out of your mind?
And then they just giggle andlaugh at me because they're, I'm
like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I've seen what you post.
This is like 10 times longerthan that.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah yeah, hello, right, exactly so, but you know,
but it's different, right?
I guess it's different becausethey know they're moving in it
and I don't even know, it's justdifferent, but it's definitely
it's so.
you know, and I'm very I try tobe incredibly sensitive to all
the different body types and,and you know, I try really hard
(34:30):
to be sure that everything's inplace for them and they're
comfortable, because there'snothing worse to me than having
to go out and perform and not becomfortable in what's on my
physical body.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
I never, I never, am the personthat says they all have to wear
this, unless I have tried it onall of them and it works on all
(34:54):
of them.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yes, that's rare, kathy, I know.
I know, I remember my kicklinedance team in high school got
all new.
We had the old school likemarching band wool.
In high school we had the oldschool marching band wool
uniforms that were a skirt butlike a normal length.
And then she was like we'regoing to get new uniforms.
(35:17):
And then all of a sudden theywere spandex and glittery and
like an ice skating skirt whichbarely covered your butt, and I
was in the bathroom crying.
I didn't want to come out andshe was like get out, you're
going to wear it.
If it's the last thing you do,you can step off this team.
Oh my God, those are momentsyou don't forget.
(35:37):
They're terrible, they'reterrible.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, they're terrible.
And I think, yeah, I think wealready feel what we feel, so
why are we going to make,especially a child, right?
Yeah yeah, I serve on the boardfor Dance New Jersey as well,
and so they performed at Show Upand Dance and that's another
whole New Jersey basedperformance.
Three directors came up to meand they said to me, how did you
(36:03):
do it?
And I said I don't know whatyou're talking about.
And they said how did you get20 teenage girls to not show a
bra strap to be so uniformed andbeautiful?
And I said, oh girl, you don'tknow how much time we spend on
that.
I'm like you bring the bra youthink you're going to wear to
the studio.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
And then that doesn't work.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
That does work.
That doesn't work.
That does work, you know?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, it's work, it's work, yeah it matters Right,
and so it's nice when somebodyelse's eyes, sees it and can
appreciate it for what it is.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Right, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Well, it's been a pleasure to meet you and learn
all about the back.
You know workings of the studioand your history, and these
kids are.
So these women, these ladies,these, you know they're so lucky
to have you and I didn't reallyrealize how much went into all
of it, so it's been eye-openingto me.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, it's been great .
Yeah, it's so nice to meet you,jeanette and Rachel.
I'm so glad we did this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm so glad you came on, kathy, and I'm just glad
that everybody gets to hear whatan incredible person you are
and thank you, I'm just gratefulthat all my girls have had time
with you.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
The best.
And when?
When Rachel's family moved fora short bit to Amsterdam.
Yes, he came to Danceworks tosay our goodbyes.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Oh my God that was terrible we sobbed.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
But you need to know, rach, that we sobbed, we sobbed
, that my orange elephant thatBridget gifted me that day, sits
in my home and I see it everyday when I walk through my front
door and I think of my Bridgetgirl.
Oh my gosh, that's really sweet.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm so glad, I'm so glad.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And my elephant, my elephant that you guys brought
back from.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
India.
Right, that's how dance workson the desk.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Yeah, yeah, that lives on the desk.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, I know we're always thinking about you
wherever we are.
It's true, it's so nice, it'slongevity.
Right, it's true, it's eitherit could be a restaurant a
(38:31):
person, a place, a thing, anidea, but something that you
just love about New Jersey, theJersey Shore.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Gotta love the Jersey Shore.
Yeah, I mean, I was born andraised at the Jersey Shore.
So, it's really such a part ofmy life and my summer and I'm a
summer baby, so I just love theJersey Shore.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Kathy oh my gosh, thank you so much.
This was awesome.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Thank you, Kathy.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Thank you, bye, ladies, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and
Jeanette Afsharian.
You can find us on Spotify,itunes and Buzzsprout.
Thanks for listening.
See you next week.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!